Keep in mind that you do NOT want to use 5s/10s configuration of LTO for 12v/24v systems. This was covered extensively in LTO Part 1 Video (link in description above). If you look at the discharge curve of LTO, a 13.2-14.0v 5s pack will instantly drop to 11.5v within the first few minutes. 6s configuration is ideal for 12v equipment. 11-12s is ideal for 24v. Please watch the first video if you have not watched this one! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Does off-grid solar confuse you? Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system packages and product recommendations, and so much more! www.mobile-solarpower.com Join our DIY solar community! #1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike: www.diysolarforum.com Check out my best-selling, beginner-friendly 12V off-grid solar book (affiliate link): amzn.to/2Aj4dX4 If DIY is not for you, but you love solar and need an offgrid system, check out Tesla Solar. Low prices and great warranty, and they can take your entire house offgrid with their new Powerwalls: ts.la/william57509 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My solar equipment recommendations (Constantly updated! Check here first): 12V/48V Lithium Batteries: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-batteries.html Solar System Component Directory: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solarcomponents.html Plug-N-Play Systems: www.mobile-solarpower.com/full-size-systems.html Complete 48V System Kits: www.mobile-solarpower.com/complete-48v-solar-kits.html DIY Friendly Air Conditioner/ Heat Pumps: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-friendly-air-conditioners.html Complete 48V System Blueprint: www.mobile-solarpower.com/48v-complete-system-blueprint.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar and Coupon Codes: -Current Connected: SOK, Victron and High Quality Components. Best prices and warranty around: currentconnected.com/?ref=wp -Signature Solar: Cheap Server Rack Batteries and Large Solar Panels: www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek -Ecoflow Delta Official Site: My favorite plug-n-play solar generator: us.ecoflow.com/?aff=7 -AmpereTime: Cheapest 12V batteries around: amperetime.com/products/ampere-time-12v-100ah-lithium-lifepo4-battery?ref=h-cvbzfahsek -Rich Solar: Mega site and cheaper prices than renogy! Check them out: richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek -Shop Solar Kits: Huge site with every solar kit you can imagine! Check it out: shopsolarkits.com/?ref=will-p -Battery Hookup: Cheap cell deals bit.ly/2mIxSqt 10% off code: diysolar -Watts 24/7: Best deals on all-in-one solar power systems, with customer support and distribution here in the USA: watts247.com/?wpam_id=3 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Contact Information: I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: williamprowsediysolar@gmail.com Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers: Every video includes some form of paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purposes only. Information is subject to change/update at any time. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :) DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com
DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse, most automotive devices are designed for up to 16V. Working in automotive testing during my college career we frequently tested production automotive parts to 16V. So long as you are using these cells with decent quality equipment, it should operate very well.
How about using these to build a "climate controlled" system for a LiFePO4 battery bank. You could have a temperature cut-off so that if temps drop too low, your panels charge the LTO batteries that run a heating pad to get the LiFePO4 pack back up to a safe temp to continue charging.
At about 7 minutes in when you knocked over the one cell it came close to shorting out on the other battery buss bar. Be careful please so we can see more video’s from you!
You know, I did think about using LTO for my solar off-grid building here in Finland precisely because I might not have been able to guarantee the cells were above freezing at all times. Prices do seem to come down as well, as ev-power has cylindrical 40AH cells at $63. I will probably have a set to serve as backup, and maybe emergency heating for the LiFePO4 cells or run other stuff in the tech building when the sun is out, I'm not around, and it's -20C etc.
The reason I'd like LTO, is to power my house, I wouldn't need to worry with the batteries for about 25- 30 years +/-, maybe longer then maybe just add a few cells to gain some capacity, but the cost I haven't bought in on the lto at all, I live off a 5kw inverter, 1500 in pv, and a generator, occasionally, with a 24v main system, and a 12v lighting system, with LiFePo bank, so I have lights at least if something goes down, and a fla 24v and a 7s liion bank. It's hard to afford batteries,
I have learned so much from your videos in no small part because of how well you edit out pauses and dead air. Thank you for post-producing your content so well and keeping the information density so amazingly high. My ADHD and thirst for knowledge thanks you. I don't know if anyone out there knows more than you, but they can't speak like you. Thank you.
Just for anyone's information, DALY will make a common port BMS with 24 S@ 57.5V 60AMP in 50AMP out or 40AMP in and out for around $30ea. for LTO SCiB 64.8V batteries. The best power production is a 60V Nominal and 48V Minimal. I am using a Sol-Ark 12K on my off-grid farm using this battery bank system. You can also split the two sets of 12 cells for a 24V Solar system if you don't have a 48V system.
Hi I have been running my house off LTO 35amp cylindrical cells for 2 years I have 4 batteries 22s 2p system the stable storage and super fast charge allows me to heat all my hot water required for 8 people most of the year LTO cells balance under load so for solar applications has been great expense of cells have forced me to look at lithium iron phosphate cells now.
I am putting together a 6s3p bank for my stereo system. I am using new Yinlong 40ah cells. I am looking forward to actually using them. I am going to use an active balancer. I think the balancer is rated at 10 amps. Supposedly it will balance up to 1000hr.
@@WillProwse You should take a look at the website I linked in my other comment. Im not sure the specifications on the balancer they are selling. I don't know if it specifically for LTO cells or not. I am buying everything from them except for busbars. I bought my busbars from a company called Ill customs. The quality of the busbars is unbelievable! Yes they were $300 for the 6s3p bars but OMG they are nice!
In Russia, we have been using a passive balancer for lto for two years now. Of crucial importance is the accuracy of balancing, which reaches 0.00002v. Its price is about 35$ for 5s-6s
I have (sail) boat building aspirations. These would be perfect if I could protect them from salt water. I could power a high-wattage electric drive to get in and out of the harbor, and/or power the lights for a great length of time. The high cycle count and low temperature handling is a bonus to that application as well.
Check out Sailing Uma, they're using a lithium setup in exactly the fashion you're describing, they've even gone several miles up river from a port with their system.
@DIY solar power with Will Prowse An effective and cheap alternative to an expensive LTO BMS is by using supercapacitor charging and balancing modules... you can get the 6s ones for less than $20 and they actively balance all 6 cells throughout, each to 2.7 volts max (I believe that's the voltage, but either way, I know the voltage is identical to that of LTO) and the nice thing is that bc supercaps can throw around an immense amount of current, these charging modules can easily handle the high current capabilities of LTO... worth looking into and it's nice that it's already a perfect 6s like you were discussing. Great content btw, keep it coming! Cheers - Jesse
@@marsBeBelinda LTO can go to zero voltage with no damage. The cell can go to zero if you want many times. In real life the device shuts down first. LTO cells can go over voltaged for hours at a time and still work but if you get them too hot they can get puffy. When they cool down they normally have higher amp/hr ratings. They just don't care. If you get them too hot and the seals around the tabs release you can damage the cell but short of that they just don't fail under reasonable use.
0:36 Well. But you save allot on the long term by not having to repurchase battery packs. Because most lithium chemistries degrade quite quickly. So i would prefeur to have around 20/25% more solar panels and a hugh LTO battery than that i have a smaller solar array and have to buy new batteries periodicly.
I really wonder, how did you get those numbers for LTO efficiencies of 80-90%. Then, if that is true, how one can charge/discharge them with 5C/10C with so moderate temperature rise. By the way using '8' and '9' will assemble quite a typical figure of the LTO efficiencies - it is about 98%. Because of that high figure, the charge / discharge efficiencies must be measured with more precision instruments and set-ups. Otherwise, once I've come across to someone who registered 100.3% round trip efficiency - one funny result among his multiple charge /discharge cycles measurements. By the way, could somebody refer to a commercially available battery chemistry being more efficient than LTO? To me LTO is a dream battery technology from electrical perspective, but some other downsides as you pointed out like energy density- gravimetric and volumetric (weight, space), price etc. would limit their use. Of course, please consider that as a small remark in your video. YOU ARE SUCH A GOOD PRESENTER AND YOUR VIDEOS A VERY MUCH EDUCATIONAL- GOOD STAFF AND KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!
It can deliver 5C/10C because the titanate chemistry allows higher ion exchange rates. However, it has limited "columbic" efficiency since most of these batteries are constructed with rudimentary electrodes such as activated carbon. Currently, there is one company in China which uses graphene. These LTO batteries have much higher capacity retention rates due to very low ESRs.
With prismatic cells, I wonder if a heat sink arrangement where a sheet of aluminium or copper wider than the cells sandwiched between each cell would help dissipate heat. I have nmc prismatic and thought about this, although my discharge rate is nowhere near enough to generate heat. Other fins could be attached and have a forced air cooling system. I'd love to use these for off road racing kart/buggies!!!!
The claimed 80-90% round trip efficiency might be bad, but it is probably measured at very high charge and discharge current. Probably 5C or 10C. They do have high discharge rates, so the internal resistance should be relatively low, even if they heat up a little bit at 10C. That suggest to me that they should have a really good or better efficiency at lower current. Try 1C or 0.5C. But to test it you really need different charging and discharging. Because at your current setting you don't really utilize full capacity of this batteries. Similarly calendar aging probably occurs more at high voltages, and higher temperatures, so if you use them more gently, and because of inherent lower voltage in LTO, I think they can actually age better than LiFePO4. Again something to test for.
I charged at a little over 1c and discharged at 2c and power out vs power in was almost the same. This was well within instrumentation error. The only detectable decrease in capacity was discharge testing at 70 degrees F vs 32 degrees F. The efficiency didn't change for me. Remember it was just a sample size of one for this test. I didn't need to do anymore tests because they perform good for my needs. LTO Batteries at high temperatures may degrade some but the amp hour rating increases! Even when they cool.
For an RV air conditioner, would it be worth it to have a split battery bank with Lithium Titanate/Lithium Ion? That way, you could use the L-Titanate as the primary battery to run the AC and other appliances that will be discharging heavy loads, with the ability to recharge really quickly via the alternator or generator? Then build the rest of your bank with L-ion so that you can at least have a larger battery bank for those times that you run out of power from your expensive L-Titanate, or cant run an engine?
Even if expensive to purchase if they last even half the rated 20k cycles i.e. 10,000 cycles that is over 27 years if cycled daily as in an off-grid solar setup.
Unless a misprint Ali express mentioned the 23AH 100K cycles "New stock battery, long life 100,000 times, 6 minutes safe and fast charging and discharging, full of low internal resistance, super value"
Great vid I'm thinking the 40ah yinlong would be great for an electric paramotor trike , max draw can be 300 amps, but the good part is the fast recharge and multiple recharges a day Cheers
I use LTO for car's starter batteries only! Well I wanted stop, but theses batteries have to be powered on before you can use them. The LG Chem 12v BMW LTO batteries, will not work unless you jump start them first, seem I am going to have to remove the circuit that shuts them off otherwise they will have to be torn apart, it is sad they came in a good case a nice form factor.
So if they are worse than Ni-Mh, they really have no advantage. Ni-Mh batteries also have considerable more cycles than Li-ion and are resilient to abuse and work below zero. they have to be cheaper than Ni-mh for this to fly. Cars usually work above 15V in an automotive application. My car cutoff at 16V. So possibly not a problem for 12V use. Solar inverters should also tolerate that kind of overvoltage. However integrating cell monitoring is tricky in a car as an alternator is a rough way of charging, easily overpowering the balance capacity of any BMS. What I did was use a bms and a solar charge regulator, so the battery was balanced at a low 1A charge current when the sun was out. Then whatever cranking and driving messed up the balancing, the solar panel remedid when parked. I do know a Prius doesn't have an alternator, so charging is more civilised!
Two words: Buck converter I typically build 24V packs and including buck converters provides a flat 12 volts throughout the discharge, which is great for DC loads. A buck converter would also be perfect for connecting the Toshiba pack to a *12V* inverter.
You mention here that it might be possible to build an LTO pack that could be used as a vehicle starting battery and that you even have a Prius where you could test it out. The Prius uses a DC to DC charger for its 12V battery so would that work to charge the LTO pack as well? I'm VERY INTERESTED in what's possible to use in my own Prius!
@@Lisas4us The Converter I bought is specified as 95% efficient. I am replacing my 12Vdc batteries with a 48Vdc system to supply a new large electric motor. My existing DC panel is 100A, 12V. I plan on adding a 500 Wh-12Vdc battery pack as a back up for essential functions. I would like to see a one line for the relays; I am using Lithium though.
How about a mini LTO backup for supplying a heat source for more sensitive Lipo main supply, seems like you can have an all weather system by combining the two battery types.
To note: LTO is non-flammable, there is no risk of fire. So, despite getting hot, the consequence of the heat is not a hazard and may even be a benefit in colder temps!
CORZER0 place battery packs strategically and you won’t even need to run the heater or maybe use them to heat water. 50°C is good enough for a shower, lol
Belinda Mars I’m glad you noticed I was kidding. I would never suggest placing batteries into water to heat the water up. My personal solution to keep batteries above freezing is in the root cellar. But I also realize that is still far away from optimum temps of ~70°f . Can’t win on all fronts :)
Maybe most of your subscribers are only playing with off-grid but honestly people who are truly off-grid have 40 kilowatt hour plus batteries and won't have a problem with these voltages because we can handle between 36 and 64v with brand-name inverters such as Schneider Conext Morningstar Xantrex, Outback, Magnum... And with such small increments in voltage with different numbers of series cells we have many options for cell count. Heck with the new 500 volt batteries and there matching all-in-one inverter charger, including built-in mppt solar chargers, we have even more room for different choices of numbers of cells in series. Having a few extra cheap panels to increase the cycle count to 4X higher than lithium iron phosphate sounds like a good trade off. Why are all these companies pushing inferior technology on us? They obviously want the batteries they sell us to go bad so we will buy more!
Any suggestions as to the type and amount of batteries needed to power a mini split ac system that pulls 1000 watts per hour for 12 hours? Maybe in conjunction with minimal solar panels? I'm trying to not idle my semi truck on hot days. Idling kills the diesel particle filter. Batteries will need to be charged with the trucks 12. lot alternator or through the inverter.
Hi so what is the best battery for solar power in a house please let me know the best option . You got the experience I don’t I will really appreciate thanks
Like I told you in the past I only use LTO. The used cells in the glued in pack did have a bms and my cells aren't welded but have studs and they are still weigh 20% more than pouch LTO cells. You don't need to worry about heat so much or tossing tons of current at them and they don't go into thermal runaway even at ungodly high temperatures. When you run them over temperature they will have more capacity! Remember they have lower IR by design than Lifepo4 so they will generate less heat. Active balance is the way to go on the cells. Here is why I use LTO. My Ebike cargo bike for example needs a 48v 20 a/hr pack. The 18650 pack can weigh 8-10 lbs but my new pack of LTO is 18-20lbs and more volume. One would say why would you use LTO? Well the 18650 pack under high current drops off at least 20% capacity. I ride when it is 30 degrees or colder and under high current you really have a 10 a/hr 18650 pack. The LTO is around 18 a/hr at 30 to 10 degrees. The other problem with 18650 packs is they don't like the cold and need to unplugged and charged in the house. The LTO pack can stay in the garage and charge. I have noticed on the 18650 cells the high current draw has made the IR raise and made the bike less snappy. To be honest the shorter life on the 18650 cells is due to over heating of the cells and to fix that the cells should have heat sinks or some type of cooling but if I add weight to cool them I no longer have a 8-10 lb pack and that is why the other cells just don't make the cut for me. I don't have the issue you have with voltage drop out , my motor controller is good from 60-36v. I own 1000 lbs of LTO so I will have all I ever need. I also have some 2017 Prius cells to play with but the weight is high for the cells . I think that cell weight is needed for cooling at the 3C rate. I am looking for a used Prius. It takes some rethinking to get your mind around LTO. I am a few years out on a home LTO solar system. Glad you looked at LTO cells!
@will So I'm wondering why the BMS only kicks in so high in the state of charge on that chemistry. That seems just odd. Is it an issue with the LTO chemistry specifically that calls for that or maybe the numbers just aren't there for the engineers yet to give more room for balancing earlier in the state of charge? Any thoughts on that? These cells look like they have a lot of potential. These would have been great as a load sink for years ago when I used to do car audio systems for competition, but nobody quote me on that. It will destroy the components eventually. Well, if you are doing db drag, that is your goal anyway. Great video as always.
the average vehicle uses between 60 and 120 amps to start. not including big blocks, large diesels, and 24v systems. just an average for normal cars and trucks.
I would be interested in a LTO car starter battery. The temp, high charge/discharge, lifetime specs and low discharge capability would fit the job quite well. Also, the capacity isn't as important. I would be happy with 10- 20 years lifetime.
@@marsBeBelinda after looking through datasheets and with secrecy surrounding the removed bms i believe these packs are used military starter batteries.
I think price is a big factor in the value of the BatteryHookup LTOs. At $125 for 10 cells (sold out) seems like a good deal when the AliExpress batteries were $486 for 6! Thanks for the great info. The application I am considering is powering some LED lighting in a small greenhouse at night in the winter in Canada. The inefficiency isn't a completely bad thing because it just pours some extra heat into the greenhouse. The batteries can still charge and discharge at low temperatures is a big plus. I can even build the lights to run directly off of DC to the voltage of the battery. One of my favourite channels.
I've just had a brainwave (dangerous i know) if you have an RV that spends some time in below freezing weather you could add a battery pack of these titinate cells and command a relay to cut the charge going to your LFP only, that way you don't waste what incoming solar there is on a clear bright day. Later when the LFP's have warmed up enough you could dc to dc charge them from the titinate cell pack 😎
What's up will I been watching all most all you vedioes quite impressive I was wondering if you can do one on headway red 12v cells from battery hook up thanks
The small aluminum pack would be great for a fatbike ebike application being used for winter riding . Maybe one could even use the heat created for hand warmer ,heated handle bar or something along that line. What was its weight ? Most ebikes require 24v ,36v or 48v but they sell waterproof transformers that convert 12v to 24v and 24v to 36v at reasonable efficiency. They would reduce number of batteries and weight. Maybe you should get into this too . Another side of this grand plan. I'm sure that you would make a difference. You and Elon , making this world better without robbing people.
Dude, I love your channel. I first came to your channel for some simple advice, now I find myself just watching your channel. This has been my favorite content so far. You guys answered so many questions I had about battle born batteries.
Ya he doesn't have the clickbait or wasted time on stuff that doesn't pertain to the topic. It's just the information, I wish more RUclipsrs made content like this.
Im very interested in your suggestion of testing lto on your prius, its a similar thought I've had for my van. Im looking for a chemistry I can take from van to van. 30 to 54 years will see me fail before the battery, I note your mention of calendar aging etc but if it lasts only 25 years it will likely out live the average age my family lives to, and mean there will be exciting new chemistrys to replace it before I die. I'm looking at the savings and safety factors involed, my situation requires a lot of driving, the extra drag of solar panels means using my alternator if set up correctly will use less fuel and be more financially beneficial to me for my power consumption, reducing the starter battery weight and temperture benefits might also improve my vans efficancy.
Thank you for yet another great video Will! What about running a 11s configuraton? That would give you that 1/2 cell that you'd need and hopefully get a good voltage for running 24V.
Hello , And Thank you on the Yinlong 2.3v can be charged up to 2.8v but only recommended 2.4 or 85% is like 2.4 % and I - you can only drain down to 1.60v gives you & me .80v per battery which is like 20 Batteries in a bank of 48v - 20 Batteries x 2.4v = 48v to get the longest Life they recommend 2.3v for 20 + Years and they say if you charge them to only 80% not to 100% you save about 6 years ! My Question William if you could spare the few seconds- I know this was a Knucklehead thing to do - a Bonehead I know - I over charged 5 batteries I had them in series the top charge was to be 2.8v each in series I charged them to 3.2v , was to be 14v but went to 16v for 5 batteries talk to me 1 time over charged I’m wanting for a charger as I write ! You had a Victron Charger I tried to see but in the video was not enough for me to see so I got 1 off AliExpress! What type of damage you think I did from you’re years of Experience and knowledge / Wisdom ?
Will as always an interesting video thanks for the ongoing education. Personally I am new to solar so this is all great stuff that you are looking at and testing. I hear you often say that products are not useful for solar ie high discharge rates but surly it depends on what you are using your solar for? As a sail boat owner who is looking to remove propane from my boat and switch to lithium batteries for the house usage I am still left with what batteries to use to start the Diesel engine and generator and drive the heavy draw Bow thruster all heavy draw short period needs. Would be great to have a mixed solution but moving away from the big heavy short life cycle lead options. The LTO s look like a potential answer??? Be nice if you could cover Usage types home RV boat etc. :-)
This technology seems to match lead acid in terms of cell voltage, which given the current state of electronics geared towards lead acid is no bad thing. Watts per kilo seems better than lead acid and no Peukert effect means a very usable battery. No damages from 100% discharge is a massive plus. A little bit of extra mass compared to lifepo4 or other chemistry seems like a fair tradeoff. Every progressive step in battery technical is a nail in the coffin for the petrochemical industry. Which, for our children, is only a good thing. As for the haters, leave them to their ICE technology, preferably in a fairly confined space. Edit... Ok not exactly drop in replacement for 12/24v equipment...🙂
Hey Will I am looking at putting a 24v system in a cargo trailer conversion. What do you think of using one of those mpp all in ones with a tesla battery?
Dear Will, could you, please, explain how you charge your batteries? In your videos you seem to use nothing but a simple laboratory power-supply. Is this correct? And if so, do you stop the charging manually when you see that the current has dropped to a certain level? Or do you use some sense mechanism? Thanks a lot in advance!
I mean, on first glance on paper these cells seem to be the ideal cell, expensive but if you figure in 6-10x the life span of a LIFE4 batt......are they expensive? , good capacity, ridiculous long life, ridiculous high C charge and discharge. They're being reviewed as substitutes for small cheap diy 4S LIFE packs but really this isn't where they are aimed at, they'd make much better 24v or 48v large packs for outhouses or RVs using higher end BMSs, charge controllers and inverters with flexible voltage ranges. I mean if your not using much (or any) 12v stuff and your mostly using 120/240v through inverters etc, then these seem ideal, super high discharge and charge long life batteries! I might have to get a small ali express pack to try out as yes like you say the Yinlong ones are expensivo!
You seem to, for whatever reason, have an inherent dislike of the battery. The only valid issue raised was that of balance charging and how most chargers do not support it properly. On other issues, it's either the same or way better than other batteries.
It seems in the video your tests show reduced output at lower c rates. Is that just true for these used cells in this configuration or is that a phenomenon associated with this chemistry?
will thanks for bringing up the vehicle underhood FLA replacement applications in all weather.. i've been wondering for years about this. how cool would that be.. a true lifetime car starter battery / house battery solution.
Its the second time you give wrong information in your video. first was nife now its lto . Cylindrical has 1.5-2.8v range with 2.3 nominal not 2.4 thats for those prismatic cells with 2.9v max . Also several vids on youtube shows 98.9 efficiency and not 80-90 like you claim . Get your facts straight please. They are used for solar with mppsolar GK and are very happy with it....Also man get information before making video that way you would have knowed that 5S is dumb
So you could get 12 of these and make two 12v banks with bms each and put them in series. Then you take it down to 12v for your inverter and the inverter wouldn't give you any issues any longer correct? I know it's not the most efficient way to do it but buying batteries once in your life time is very tempting. Did I understood that correctly? I'm pretty new at this but I would love to buy a system that just works, don't really worry TOO much about efficiency for my usage. Is it possible to just keep it at 12v in series and somehow use a DC to DC converter to keep the inverter happy?
Are there AA or 18650 sized LTO batteries on the market? I checked AE and all I see are what looks like capacitors but the description says LTO batteries and the charging temperature is 0C and higher. The real LTOs can charge in -20C, iirc. Im rather baffled!
Please make a video camparison for car. I recently looking for new car battery replacement for my car. Mine before is BatCap model X3000 from X-Static, currently used 5 years now and it is dying......
I have money enough to afford building an off grid battery bank using LTO cells - what charger / inverter would be suitable for a 48v 20kw system ? Please and thank you !!
Same problem as Part 1. Constant audio = bad editing. 27mins of a verbal barrage. You hardly have time to think about what he is saying before he is 3 facts ahead. Just nobody speaks like that so it sounds very unnatural.
Nice video Will. I would definitely use a Bluetooth programmable BMS. You can set all the cut-off voltages and amperages including the balancing cut-in voltage, cut-off temperatures etc. I'm using a 320Amp version that cost under 100 UK Pounds
@@christianbuchner8675 if you search for this on Ali Express you will find it. Thanks Smart 7S ~ 20S ANT Lifepo4 li-ion Lipo LTO Battery Protection Board BMS 400A 300A 100A 80A Bluetooth APP 10S 13S 14S 16S Balance
Also could probably modify an inverter to reduce it's minimum input voltage... crack one open and check its specs more than likely it only drops out to protect the batteries you have attached not the inverter.
You have to buy more panels.... but your batteries basically last forever.... batteries dominate the cost of solar these days. If the cost on these drops enough even with the losses it will make sense.
An efficient battery should convert the lost energy to heat. So these things glow with heat? or where does the energy go? I do like the temperature range! - but its in Centigrade - is it not?
Keep in mind that you do NOT want to use 5s/10s configuration of LTO for 12v/24v systems. This was covered extensively in LTO Part 1 Video (link in description above). If you look at the discharge curve of LTO, a 13.2-14.0v 5s pack will instantly drop to 11.5v within the first few minutes. 6s configuration is ideal for 12v equipment. 11-12s is ideal for 24v. Please watch the first video if you have not watched this one!
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My solar equipment recommendations (Constantly updated! Check here first):
12V/48V Lithium Batteries: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-batteries.html
Solar System Component Directory: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solarcomponents.html
Plug-N-Play Systems: www.mobile-solarpower.com/full-size-systems.html
Complete 48V System Kits: www.mobile-solarpower.com/complete-48v-solar-kits.html
DIY Friendly Air Conditioner/ Heat Pumps: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-friendly-air-conditioners.html
Complete 48V System Blueprint: www.mobile-solarpower.com/48v-complete-system-blueprint.html
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-Current Connected: SOK, Victron and High Quality Components. Best prices and warranty around: currentconnected.com/?ref=wp
-Signature Solar: Cheap Server Rack Batteries and Large Solar Panels:
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DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse, most automotive devices are designed for up to 16V. Working in automotive testing during my college career we frequently tested production automotive parts to 16V. So long as you are using these cells with decent quality equipment, it should operate very well.
using a victron 12v inverter the high voltage alarm doesn't kick in till 17v
@@michaelmcclellan916 ^ crucial info for people building a 6s LTO system for vanlife.
How about using these to build a "climate controlled" system for a LiFePO4 battery bank. You could have a temperature cut-off so that if temps drop too low, your panels charge the LTO batteries that run a heating pad to get the LiFePO4 pack back up to a safe temp to continue charging.
Didn't know Lithium Titanate existed until this video. Learned something new, my day is complete.
At about 7 minutes in when you knocked over the one cell it came close to shorting out on the other battery buss bar. Be careful please so we can see more video’s from you!
You know, I did think about using LTO for my solar off-grid building here in Finland precisely because I might not have been able to guarantee the cells were above freezing at all times. Prices do seem to come down as well, as ev-power has cylindrical 40AH cells at $63. I will probably have a set to serve as backup, and maybe emergency heating for the LiFePO4 cells or run other stuff in the tech building when the sun is out, I'm not around, and it's -20C etc.
I have seen the cells on ev-power as well.
Sounds good, give It a try.
A LTO car starter battery sounds interesting as well.
This video went a bit over my head, but that's OK, I will have to replay it a few times. Your videos are much appreciated.
The reason I'd like LTO, is to power my house, I wouldn't need to worry with the batteries for about 25- 30 years +/-, maybe longer then maybe just add a few cells to gain some capacity, but the cost I haven't bought in on the lto at all, I live off a 5kw inverter, 1500 in pv, and a generator, occasionally, with a 24v main system, and a 12v lighting system, with LiFePo bank, so I have lights at least if something goes down, and a fla 24v and a 7s liion bank. It's hard to afford batteries,
I have learned so much from your videos in no small part because of how well you edit out pauses and dead air. Thank you for post-producing your content so well and keeping the information density so amazingly high. My ADHD and thirst for knowledge thanks you. I don't know if anyone out there knows more than you, but they can't speak like you. Thank you.
Have you worked with SiO2 batteries at all Will? They are exceptionally good batteries for cold weather use and very cost friendly.
You would have to take cells from the other pack and add it to the 24 pack you're trying to build. This would be nice way to go.
Just for anyone's information, DALY will make a common port BMS with 24 S@ 57.5V 60AMP in 50AMP out or 40AMP in and out for around $30ea. for LTO SCiB 64.8V batteries. The best power production is a 60V Nominal and 48V Minimal. I am using a Sol-Ark 12K on my off-grid farm using this battery bank system. You can also split the two sets of 12 cells for a 24V Solar system if you don't have a 48V system.
Hi I have been running my house off LTO 35amp cylindrical cells for 2 years I have 4 batteries 22s 2p system the stable storage and super fast charge allows me to heat all my hot water required for 8 people most of the year LTO cells balance under load so for solar applications has been great expense of cells have forced me to look at lithium iron phosphate cells now.
I am putting together a 6s3p bank for my stereo system. I am using new Yinlong 40ah cells. I am looking forward to actually using them. I am going to use an active balancer. I think the balancer is rated at 10 amps. Supposedly it will balance up to 1000hr.
That is a perfect application for this chemistry you will love it
@@WillProwse You should take a look at the website I linked in my other comment. Im not sure the specifications on the balancer they are selling. I don't know if it specifically for LTO cells or not. I am buying everything from them except for busbars. I bought my busbars from a company called Ill customs. The quality of the busbars is unbelievable! Yes they were $300 for the 6s3p bars but OMG they are nice!
In Russia, we have been using a passive balancer for lto for two years now. Of crucial importance is the accuracy of balancing, which reaches 0.00002v. Its price is about 35$ for 5s-6s
I have (sail) boat building aspirations. These would be perfect if I could protect them from salt water. I could power a high-wattage electric drive to get in and out of the harbor, and/or power the lights for a great length of time. The high cycle count and low temperature handling is a bonus to that application as well.
Check out Sailing Uma, they're using a lithium setup in exactly the fashion you're describing, they've even gone several miles up river from a port with their system.
@@andrewfidel2220 Will do! Thanks for the suggestion.
@DIY solar power with Will Prowse
An effective and cheap alternative to an expensive LTO BMS is by using supercapacitor charging and balancing modules... you can get the 6s ones for less than $20 and they actively balance all 6 cells throughout, each to 2.7 volts max (I believe that's the voltage, but either way, I know the voltage is identical to that of LTO) and the nice thing is that bc supercaps can throw around an immense amount of current, these charging modules can easily handle the high current capabilities of LTO... worth looking into and it's nice that it's already a perfect 6s like you were discussing.
Great content btw, keep it coming!
Cheers
- Jesse
All you really need is active balance. The cells can discharge to 0 vdc and most electronic devices shutoff long before that.
@@marsBeBelinda LTO can go to zero voltage with no damage. The cell can go to zero if you want many times. In real life the device shuts down first. LTO cells can go over voltaged for hours at a time and still work but if you get them too hot they can get puffy. When they cool down they normally have higher amp/hr ratings. They just don't care. If you get them too hot and the seals around the tabs release you can damage the cell but short of that they just don't fail under reasonable use.
Any link to a good active balancer for the yinlong?
0:36 Well. But you save allot on the long term by not having to repurchase battery packs. Because most lithium chemistries degrade quite quickly. So i would prefeur to have around 20/25% more solar panels and a hugh LTO battery than that i have a smaller solar array and have to buy new batteries periodicly.
This is what I was thinking as well. I'm not entirely clear why there is such a big issue using these batteries
Good video, don't understand a lot what you're saying but good job.
I really wonder, how did you get those numbers for LTO efficiencies of 80-90%. Then, if that is true, how one can charge/discharge them with 5C/10C with so moderate temperature rise. By the way using '8' and '9' will assemble quite a typical figure of the LTO efficiencies - it is about 98%. Because of that high figure, the charge / discharge efficiencies must be measured with more precision instruments and set-ups. Otherwise, once I've come across to someone who registered 100.3% round trip efficiency - one funny result among his multiple charge /discharge cycles measurements.
By the way, could somebody refer to a commercially available battery chemistry being more efficient than LTO? To me LTO is a dream battery technology from electrical perspective, but some other downsides as you pointed out like energy density- gravimetric and volumetric (weight, space), price etc. would limit their use.
Of course, please consider that as a small remark in your video. YOU ARE SUCH A GOOD PRESENTER AND YOUR VIDEOS A VERY MUCH EDUCATIONAL- GOOD STAFF AND KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!
It can deliver 5C/10C because the titanate chemistry allows higher ion exchange rates. However, it has limited "columbic" efficiency since most of these batteries are constructed with rudimentary electrodes such as activated carbon. Currently, there is one company in China which uses graphene. These LTO batteries have much higher capacity retention rates due to very low ESRs.
@@jackripper5240 Which company?
@@jackripper5240 I would also love to know which company makes them with graphene.
These are more suited to a 48V system. 62.5V when full, most name brand 48V inverters will happily run at this voltage
With prismatic cells, I wonder if a heat sink arrangement where a sheet of aluminium or copper wider than the cells sandwiched between each cell would help dissipate heat. I have nmc prismatic and thought about this, although my discharge rate is nowhere near enough to generate heat. Other fins could be attached and have a forced air cooling system.
I'd love to use these for off road racing kart/buggies!!!!
Prius uses high voltage battery to start the engine using the motor generator 1 so no need to worry about that
12 volt systems like sound and lights and electric coolant pumps is all it would need to be able to run
Well since you have those 20ah you should we 1 or 2 more in series with the big one
Dang it why didn't I think of that 😂 I must have been tired. You're so right. I'll try that
The claimed 80-90% round trip efficiency might be bad, but it is probably measured at very high charge and discharge current. Probably 5C or 10C. They do have high discharge rates, so the internal resistance should be relatively low, even if they heat up a little bit at 10C. That suggest to me that they should have a really good or better efficiency at lower current. Try 1C or 0.5C. But to test it you really need different charging and discharging. Because at your current setting you don't really utilize full capacity of this batteries. Similarly calendar aging probably occurs more at high voltages, and higher temperatures, so if you use them more gently, and because of inherent lower voltage in LTO, I think they can actually age better than LiFePO4. Again something to test for.
Good points
I charged at a little over 1c and discharged at 2c and power out vs power in was almost the same. This was well within instrumentation error. The only detectable decrease in capacity was discharge testing at 70 degrees F vs 32 degrees F. The efficiency didn't change for me. Remember it was just a sample size of one for this test. I didn't need to do anymore tests because they perform good for my needs. LTO Batteries at high temperatures may degrade some but the amp hour rating increases! Even when they cool.
Please test this option of 1C because I have seen videos of 99% efficiency for LTO (measured and proven).
was waiting for this video...
You’re crazy but that’s exactly why I watch you I do love the appliance of science
For an RV air conditioner, would it be worth it to have a split battery bank with Lithium Titanate/Lithium Ion?
That way, you could use the L-Titanate as the primary battery to run the AC and other appliances that will be discharging heavy loads, with the ability to recharge really quickly via the alternator or generator?
Then build the rest of your bank with L-ion so that you can at least have a larger battery bank for those times that you run out of power from your expensive L-Titanate, or cant run an engine?
lithium titanate is badass, would love to have these by researched more, but alas they use expensive stuff's
Even if expensive to purchase if they last even half the rated 20k cycles i.e. 10,000 cycles that is over 27 years if cycled daily as in an off-grid solar setup.
Unless a misprint Ali express mentioned the 23AH 100K cycles "New stock battery, long life 100,000 times, 6 minutes safe and fast charging and discharging, full of low internal resistance, super value"
Great vid
I'm thinking the 40ah yinlong would be great for an electric paramotor trike , max draw can be 300 amps, but the good part is the fast recharge and multiple recharges a day
Cheers
Seams a perfect fit for powering my wireless backhaul radio antenna up here in Canada. Thank you for making such inspiring videos.
yep these are perfect batteries for remote locations. they can take incredible abuse and keep running.
Used LTO, how many times have they been cycled, probably good enough for a hobby use.
I would love to see how much it takes you through AliExpress to build a battery that is consistent with battleborn specs
Andrew Baumgartner he means for will to make it using parts bought from aliexpress
I don't think this would be all that difficult? Maybe I have too much confidence in China lol
I use LTO for car's starter batteries only! Well I wanted stop, but theses batteries have to be powered on before you can use them. The LG Chem 12v BMW LTO batteries, will not work unless you jump start them first, seem I am going to have to remove the circuit that shuts them off otherwise they will have to be torn apart, it is sad they came in a good case a nice form factor.
So if they are worse than Ni-Mh, they really have no advantage. Ni-Mh batteries also have considerable more cycles than Li-ion and are resilient to abuse and work below zero. they have to be cheaper than Ni-mh for this to fly. Cars usually work above 15V in an automotive application. My car cutoff at 16V. So possibly not a problem for 12V use. Solar inverters should also tolerate that kind of overvoltage. However integrating cell monitoring is tricky in a car as an alternator is a rough way of charging, easily overpowering the balance capacity of any BMS. What I did was use a bms and a solar charge regulator, so the battery was balanced at a low 1A charge current when the sun was out. Then whatever cranking and driving messed up the balancing, the solar panel remedid when parked. I do know a Prius doesn't have an alternator, so charging is more civilised!
Two words: Buck converter
I typically build 24V packs and including buck converters provides a flat 12 volts throughout the discharge, which is great for DC loads.
A buck converter would also be perfect for connecting the Toshiba pack to a *12V* inverter.
I believe this are Toshiba SCiB cells
THANKS
COOP
...
be good to see a 24v system with these.
You mention here that it might be possible to build an LTO pack that could be used as a vehicle starting battery and that you even have a Prius where you could test it out. The Prius uses a DC to DC charger for its 12V battery so would that work to charge the LTO pack as well? I'm VERY INTERESTED in what's possible to use in my own Prius!
What if you have a mini 20AH titanate battery pack that is only used to pre-warm your much larger 100-200AH lifepo4 battery?
I would like to see more 48VDC to 12VDC Converters rated for 100A x 12V = 1200 W. Could only find one.
@@Lisas4us The Converter I bought is specified as 95% efficient. I am replacing my 12Vdc batteries with a 48Vdc system to supply a new large electric motor. My existing DC panel is 100A, 12V. I plan on adding a 500 Wh-12Vdc battery pack as a back up for essential functions. I would like to see a one line for the relays; I am using Lithium though.
How about a mini LTO backup for supplying a heat source for more sensitive Lipo main supply, seems like you can have an all weather system by combining the two battery types.
Can we complain about prices so they are reduced?
Will LTO work on a 48v 50ah or higher? I have a three wheeled electric bike
Agm 12v 20ah 22$ vs LTO 12v 20ah 220$, 10x price. It should last 20years for worthy build
To note: LTO is non-flammable, there is no risk of fire. So, despite getting hot, the consequence of the heat is not a hazard and may even be a benefit in colder temps!
CORZER0 place battery packs strategically and you won’t even need to run the heater or maybe use them to heat water. 50°C is good enough for a shower, lol
Belinda Mars I’m glad you noticed I was kidding. I would never suggest placing batteries into water to heat the water up.
My personal solution to keep batteries above freezing is in the root cellar. But I also realize that is still far away from optimum temps of ~70°f . Can’t win on all fronts :)
@@4philipp Belinda, I did not read that, but you're going to be ok, I promise!
Maybe most of your subscribers are only playing with off-grid but honestly people who are truly off-grid have 40 kilowatt hour plus batteries and won't have a problem with these voltages because we can handle between 36 and 64v with brand-name inverters such as Schneider Conext Morningstar Xantrex, Outback, Magnum... And with such small increments in voltage with different numbers of series cells we have many options for cell count. Heck with the new 500 volt batteries and there matching all-in-one inverter charger, including built-in mppt solar chargers, we have even more room for different choices of numbers of cells in series. Having a few extra cheap panels to increase the cycle count to 4X higher than lithium iron phosphate sounds like a good trade off. Why are all these companies pushing inferior technology on us? They obviously want the batteries they sell us to go bad so we will buy more!
Any suggestions as to the type and amount of batteries needed to power a mini split ac system that pulls 1000 watts per hour for 12 hours? Maybe in conjunction with minimal solar panels?
I'm trying to not idle my semi truck on hot days. Idling kills the diesel particle filter. Batteries will need to be charged with the trucks 12. lot alternator or through the inverter.
Hi so what is the best battery for solar power in a house please let me know the best option . You got the experience I don’t I will really appreciate thanks
Like I told you in the past I only use LTO. The used cells in the glued in pack did have a bms and my cells aren't welded but have studs and they are still weigh 20% more than pouch LTO cells. You don't need to worry about heat so much or tossing tons of current at them and they don't go into thermal runaway even at ungodly high temperatures. When you run them over temperature they will have more capacity! Remember they have lower IR by design than Lifepo4 so they will generate less heat. Active balance is the way to go on the cells.
Here is why I use LTO. My Ebike cargo bike for example needs a 48v 20 a/hr pack. The 18650 pack can weigh 8-10 lbs but my new pack of LTO is 18-20lbs and more volume. One would say why would you use LTO? Well the 18650 pack under high current drops off at least 20% capacity. I ride when it is 30 degrees or colder and under high current you really have a 10 a/hr 18650 pack. The LTO is around 18 a/hr at 30 to 10 degrees. The other problem with 18650 packs is they don't like the cold and need to unplugged and charged in the house. The LTO pack can stay in the garage and charge. I have noticed on the 18650 cells the high current draw has made the IR raise and made the bike less snappy. To be honest the shorter life on the 18650 cells is due to over heating of the cells and to fix that the cells should have heat sinks or some type of cooling but if I add weight to cool them I no longer have a 8-10 lb pack and that is why the other cells just don't make the cut for me. I don't have the issue you have with voltage drop out , my motor controller is good from 60-36v. I own 1000 lbs of LTO so I will have all I ever need.
I also have some 2017 Prius cells to play with but the weight is high for the cells . I think that cell weight is needed for cooling at the 3C rate. I am looking for a used Prius.
It takes some rethinking to get your mind around LTO. I am a few years out on a home LTO solar system. Glad you looked at LTO cells!
Awesome information thanks for taking the time to explain that.
Thank you I’ve been thinking about doing a lot battery system in my bus and I’m looking for options
Will P. We can use the Lithium titanate batterys to run the heater pads for our LifePO4 in colder areas before charging them?
Looks nice for RV or trailer use in cold weather.
Has the makings of an impromptu dc stick welder
@will So I'm wondering why the BMS only kicks in so high in the state of charge on that chemistry. That seems just odd. Is it an issue with the LTO chemistry specifically that calls for that or maybe the numbers just aren't there for the engineers yet to give more room for balancing earlier in the state of charge? Any thoughts on that? These cells look like they have a lot of potential. These would have been great as a load sink for years ago when I used to do car audio systems for competition, but nobody quote me on that. It will destroy the components eventually. Well, if you are doing db drag, that is your goal anyway. Great video as always.
The voltage discharge curve didn't look as flat so maybe they're easier to keep balanced.
the average vehicle uses between 60 and 120 amps to start. not including big blocks, large diesels, and 24v systems. just an average for normal cars and trucks.
I would be interested in a LTO car starter battery.
The temp, high charge/discharge, lifetime specs and low discharge capability would fit the job quite well.
Also, the capacity isn't as important.
I would be happy with 10- 20 years lifetime.
@@marsBeBelinda after looking through datasheets and with secrecy surrounding the removed bms i believe these packs are used military starter batteries.
I think price is a big factor in the value of the BatteryHookup LTOs. At $125 for 10 cells (sold out) seems like a good deal when the AliExpress batteries were $486 for 6! Thanks for the great info. The application I am considering is powering some LED lighting in a small greenhouse at night in the winter in Canada. The inefficiency isn't a completely bad thing because it just pours some extra heat into the greenhouse. The batteries can still charge and discharge at low temperatures is a big plus. I can even build the lights to run directly off of DC to the voltage of the battery. One of my favourite channels.
I've just had a brainwave (dangerous i know) if you have an RV that spends some time in below freezing weather you could add a battery pack of these titinate cells and command a relay to cut the charge going to your LFP only, that way you don't waste what incoming solar there is on a clear bright day.
Later when the LFP's have warmed up enough you could dc to dc charge them from the titinate cell pack 😎
What's up will I been watching all most all you vedioes quite impressive I was wondering if you can do one on headway red 12v cells from battery hook up thanks
How about cutting open the BatteryHookup pack and assembling the ideal 12v 6 cell battery? You're great at extracting cells...glue, shmoo!
The small aluminum pack would be great for a fatbike ebike application being used for winter riding . Maybe one could even use the heat created for hand warmer ,heated handle bar or something along that line.
What was its weight ?
Most ebikes require 24v ,36v or 48v but they sell waterproof transformers that convert 12v to 24v and 24v to 36v at reasonable efficiency. They would reduce number of batteries and weight.
Maybe you should get into this too . Another side of this grand plan. I'm sure that you would make a difference. You and Elon , making this world better without robbing people.
Dude, I love your channel. I first came to your channel for some simple advice, now I find myself just watching your channel. This has been my favorite content so far. You guys answered so many questions I had about battle born batteries.
Ya he doesn't have the clickbait or wasted time on stuff that doesn't pertain to the topic. It's just the information, I wish more RUclipsrs made content like this.
Send Will more electrical tape. He uses it all the time and probably needs more.
Sounds like unless you got these extremely cheaply they really wouldn't be worth the trouble over LiFePO4. And the Toshiba packs are already sold out.
Im very interested in your suggestion of testing lto on your prius, its a similar thought I've had for my van. Im looking for a chemistry I can take from van to van. 30 to 54 years will see me fail before the battery, I note your mention of calendar aging etc but if it lasts only 25 years it will likely out live the average age my family lives to, and mean there will be exciting new chemistrys to replace it before I die. I'm looking at the savings and safety factors involed, my situation requires a lot of driving, the extra drag of solar panels means using my alternator if set up correctly will use less fuel and be more financially beneficial to me for my power consumption, reducing the starter battery weight and temperture benefits might also improve my vans efficancy.
Ok. This was really good. I think you hit all the important points. Good work.
I wonder if the aliexpress seller you linked has raised prices. $358 for 6 cells or $493 for 12 cells doesn't seem "really cheap" to me.
LiFEPO4 FTW!
Yeah they raised prices again. That sucks.
Thank you for yet another great video Will! What about running a 11s configuraton? That would give you that 1/2 cell that you'd need and hopefully get a good voltage for running 24V.
Hello , And Thank you on the Yinlong 2.3v can be charged up to 2.8v but only recommended 2.4 or 85% is like 2.4 % and I - you can only drain down to 1.60v gives you & me .80v per battery which is like 20 Batteries in a bank of 48v - 20 Batteries x 2.4v = 48v to get the longest Life they recommend 2.3v for 20 + Years and they say if you charge them to only 80% not to 100% you save about 6 years ! My Question William if you could spare the few seconds- I know this was a Knucklehead thing to do - a Bonehead I know - I over charged 5 batteries I had them in series the top charge was to be 2.8v each in series I charged them to 3.2v , was to be 14v but went to 16v for 5 batteries talk to me 1 time over charged I’m wanting for a charger as I write ! You had a Victron Charger I tried to see but in the video was not enough for me to see so I got 1 off AliExpress! What type of damage you think I did from you’re years of Experience and knowledge / Wisdom ?
Will as always an interesting video thanks for the ongoing education. Personally I am new to solar so this is all great stuff that you are looking at and testing. I hear you often say that products are not useful for solar ie high discharge rates but surly it depends on what you are using your solar for? As a sail boat owner who is looking to remove propane from my boat and switch to lithium batteries for the house usage I am still left with what batteries to use to start the Diesel engine and generator and drive the heavy draw Bow thruster all heavy draw short period needs. Would be great to have a mixed solution but moving away from the big heavy short life cycle lead options. The LTO s look like a potential answer??? Be nice if you could cover Usage types home RV boat etc. :-)
This technology seems to match lead acid in terms of cell voltage, which given the current state of electronics geared towards lead acid is no bad thing. Watts per kilo seems better than lead acid and no Peukert effect means a very usable battery. No damages from 100% discharge is a massive plus. A little bit of extra mass compared to lifepo4 or other chemistry seems like a fair tradeoff. Every progressive step in battery technical is a nail in the coffin for the petrochemical industry. Which, for our children, is only a good thing. As for the haters, leave them to their ICE technology, preferably in a fairly confined space.
Edit... Ok not exactly drop in replacement for 12/24v equipment...🙂
Hey Will I am looking at putting a 24v system in a cargo trailer conversion. What do you think of using one of those mpp all in ones with a tesla battery?
Dear Will, could you, please, explain how you charge your batteries? In your videos you seem to use nothing but a simple laboratory power-supply. Is this correct? And if so, do you stop the charging manually when you see that the current has dropped to a certain level? Or do you use some sense mechanism? Thanks a lot in advance!
Thank you for all your input, you are one of the best and regards in the city of Chicago.
I mean, on first glance on paper these cells seem to be the ideal cell, expensive but if you figure in 6-10x the life span of a LIFE4 batt......are they expensive? , good capacity, ridiculous long life, ridiculous high C charge and discharge. They're being reviewed as substitutes for small cheap diy 4S LIFE packs but really this isn't where they are aimed at, they'd make much better 24v or 48v large packs for outhouses or RVs using higher end BMSs, charge controllers and inverters with flexible voltage ranges. I mean if your not using much (or any) 12v stuff and your mostly using 120/240v through inverters etc, then these seem ideal, super high discharge and charge long life batteries! I might have to get a small ali express pack to try out as yes like you say the Yinlong ones are expensivo!
Seems like they would be great for quick charging from a large alternator and b2b setup
I've been wanting you to recommend people check out battery hookup. I'm glad you are already all over it.
You seem to, for whatever reason, have an inherent dislike of the battery. The only valid issue raised was that of balance charging and how most chargers do not support it properly. On other issues, it's either the same or way better than other batteries.
Looks like you are sponsored by the color blue and are just doing this for the money...haha...JK..going off your last vid. ;-)
Nigel Naughton like most of us, he’s sponsored by the color green!
@@wpherigo1 Just have to have it the more the better.
It seems in the video your tests show reduced output at lower c rates. Is that just true for these used cells in this configuration or is that a phenomenon associated with this chemistry?
That was a different pack. They are used cells so very possible they have different capacities
That Toshiba bank appears to have the same size prismatic as you tested first.
using a victron 12v inverter the high voltage alarm doesn't kick in till 17v
That's awesome
I feel like soon enough we're going to have a truly bulletproof battery that you can't destroy in extremely cold climates. That is also lightweight
Much better voice control in this video, Will. It's much nicer to listen to.
Great video as always!
You should get a thermal cam to look at battery hotspots
will thanks for bringing up the vehicle underhood FLA replacement applications in all weather.. i've been wondering for years about this. how cool would that be.. a true lifetime car starter battery / house battery solution.
Its the second time you give wrong information in your video. first was nife now its lto . Cylindrical has 1.5-2.8v range with 2.3 nominal not 2.4 thats for those prismatic cells with 2.9v max . Also several vids on youtube shows 98.9 efficiency and not 80-90 like you claim . Get your facts straight please. They are used for solar with mppsolar GK and are very happy with it....Also man get information before making video that way you would have knowed that 5S is dumb
what about a 11s for 24 volts apliances?
So you could get 12 of these and make two 12v banks with bms each and put them in series. Then you take it down to 12v for your inverter and the inverter wouldn't give you any issues any longer correct? I know it's not the most efficient way to do it but buying batteries once in your life time is very tempting. Did I understood that correctly? I'm pretty new at this but I would love to buy a system that just works, don't really worry TOO much about efficiency for my usage. Is it possible to just keep it at 12v in series and somehow use a DC to DC converter to keep the inverter happy?
Are there AA or 18650 sized LTO batteries on the market? I checked AE and all I see are what looks like capacitors but the description says LTO batteries and the charging temperature is 0C and higher. The real LTOs can charge in -20C, iirc. Im rather baffled!
you like them big?
studs 2020
0:36. Internal combustion engine efficiency is around 20%
Please make a video camparison for car. I recently looking for new car battery replacement for my car. Mine before is BatCap model X3000 from X-Static, currently used 5 years now and it is dying......
Why not add another cell
I have money enough to afford building an off grid battery bank using LTO cells - what charger / inverter would be suitable for a 48v 20kw system ? Please and thank you !!
Same problem as Part 1. Constant audio = bad editing. 27mins of a verbal barrage. You hardly have time to think about what he is saying before he is 3 facts ahead. Just nobody speaks like that so it sounds very unnatural.
Nice video Will.
I would definitely use a Bluetooth programmable BMS.
You can set all the cut-off voltages and amperages including the balancing cut-in voltage, cut-off temperatures etc.
I'm using a 320Amp version that cost under 100 UK Pounds
More info about this BMS please.
@@christianbuchner8675 if you search for this on Ali Express you will find it. Thanks
Smart 7S ~ 20S ANT Lifepo4 li-ion Lipo LTO Battery Protection Board BMS 400A 300A 100A 80A Bluetooth APP 10S 13S 14S 16S Balance
the new cotek SP 2000 inverters are grate for them batteri I have one testing one out it i like it so far
Would those cells be better for wind power? (Newbie) Not sure how fast wind power charges. (But I'm going for a combo system; solar and wind)
Also could probably modify an inverter to reduce it's minimum input voltage... crack one open and check its specs more than likely it only drops out to protect the batteries you have attached not the inverter.
You have to buy more panels.... but your batteries basically last forever.... batteries dominate the cost of solar these days. If the cost on these drops enough even with the losses it will make sense.
grate video i know some that has a system with them batteries they work grate for hem he runs ac
An efficient battery should convert the lost energy to heat. So these things glow with heat? or where does the energy go?
I do like the temperature range! - but its in Centigrade - is it not?