Also trying to bump this for funny comments of the week instead of uninspired Richard-hate. Save the comments for when you see him in Vegas or other cons, or not at all.
@@Wobbegong1234 bro if my SO buys a magic card instead of a house key for me I'm all in she's a keeper cuz she plays magic. But like I'll still be salty tho
Crim, Seth and Tomer: This card is good but it isn't worth the ridiculous price Richard, taking a long drag of a cigarette: the last man who tried putting Fierce Guardianship in my deck was found cold and dead in a ditch
Richard logic be like “commanders are constantly being removed nowadays, so a free counterspell that saves your commander from any removal spell is obviously garbage!”
I think its more due to using counters to: A) Stiffle your opponents combo. B) Protect your combo. Which for both it does not do that well due to the fact it requires your commander, making it easier to play around.
@@metatron8578 The problem is that there really aren't decent "budget" alternatives to free counterspells. So, if you can't pay 0 mana for a counterspell the next best place is 1 mana where there are lots of great budget pieces.
I've been sitting in silence for 10 mins just trying to begin wrapping my head around Richard hating a free counter spell that could protect your commander, in the world he set the table for, where people are always coming for your commander. Just wild lmao
Richard's commander takes were so good that they've experienced an overflow error and are all just...bad. Richard...you're having trouble sticking your commander *because you aren't running Fierce Guardianship.*
I think his point about having Fierce Guardianship in hand and someone trying to remove your commander basically forces you to use it, which makes it kinda less like a consistent free counterspell you can use to push through a win and more like a protection spell with extra utility. I think you could even argue that in a board wipe heavy meta Fierce Guardianship is worse than a normal protection spell because it helps your opponents too. He should probably just play more counterspells in general though lol
@@ElisaKaysCauldron It’s closer than I thought, but the prevalence of Rog Si is probably skewing the numbers a bit imo. In the past month there are 403 top 16s with Fierce, only 380 with Pact. Source is MTGtop8
A fun podcast topic would be each of you coming up with the five cards that best represent you in commander. So like Phil's Spellbook would be: Lunar Force Agent of Treachery Last March of the Ents Lonis Tireless Tracker
And just like the kid from school who had to wear a plain shirt 2 sizes too big, because their parents wanted to save money, everyone will play with you.
This man is consistent. He did say in the free spell bracket that he thought Pact of Negation was the best free counterspell over Fierce Guardianship and Force of Will Edit: This was also the same man who did indeed bait out Cam's Fierce Guardianship on Play to Win with Swords to Plowshares and proceeded to Generous Gift Underworld Breach causing Cam to be the first to lose the game.
@@alexliang1040I went back and watched two episodes with him in them from 3 years ago. He plays Ardenn/Rograkh. The second game is the galaxy brain play.
Y’all missed the part of the analysis on Great Henge that those other green card draw spells can largely get dumpstered by an instant-speed bounce/removal/phase out on your big creature. Once Great Henge is on the stack, it’s too late for opponents to respond.
I feel like the crew is approaching the ramp, fog, and wrath singularity. If you play assuming creatures will just always die, then you'll all end up playing pillowfort or draw go control. LOL
I can't believe Richard didn't use the Richard argument for The One Ring. It gets you killed and it's too slow to protect you past the 1 turn of protection.
Richard has said it's so powerful it wins a 1v3. So even though it makes you arch enemy. It's still one of the best cards you can play. It's just not a fun card.
Tomer is right, one opponent's commander could literally say "when this creature enters the battlefield you win the game" and you will get gunned down by the other two for having a Drannith Magistrate
I think part of the disconnect is that fierce isn't an all-purpose counterspell. It's pretty much a protection spell for your commander that also has additional utility sometimes. I don't run it in the counterspell slots of my decks. If you try conceptualizing it that way, you might find yourself finding a home for it more often.
You're right. It goes with the flawless maneuver/clever concealment package, and generally just in decks that require you to have many permanents to do the thing.
My predictions for this (every) weeks podcast - Seth will over react the entire cast but close it out by tell the audience not to over react - Tomer will be cautiously optimistic - Crim will continue to be the voice of reason - Richard will realize yet again that he is, in fact, very old
I think the main difference between pact of negation and fierce guardian ship is: pact is a combo protection counter that sometimes if neccessary can be used to protect your commander and. Fierce is a commander pritection counter that sometimes can be used to protect your combo if it hadn't to be used earlier.
Guardianship could’ve been made more fair if it was this: 2U - Instant If you target a noncreature spell that targets your commander, you may cast this spell without paying its mana cost. Counter target noncreature spell.
The alternative to every single one of these is "pretend they dont exist". None of these are required to make a strong deck for casual play (not cEDH or high powered casual).
When Richard says things like "buying Lara Croft or The Fourteenth Doctor isn't something you do because they're a good card, it's something you do because you love the character, and that makes it worth buying" it's so real, it's such a good understanding of Commander that it shocks me.
It's an obvious take though. There aren't many of the mechanically unique SL cards that are generically good like Rick is for humans, most are niche, novel commanders like Lara Croft that don't fit particularly well in other decks. I don't honestly think many of these cards see play in a lot of other decks, their price is only high for their availability, not because there is a lot of demand.
@Benjammn A take so obvious Seth immediately argued with him haha. One of the things that makes this podcast interesting is that the crew are predominantly 60 card competitive players whose opinions are incredibly influenced by that fact. Richard dropping the "subjectivity/nuance over objective analysis" is the most "Commander Woke" thing the podcast has ever seen
One thing I've noticed with Richard's card evaluation is that he likes comparing cards 1:1 too much. Fierce Guardianship and Pact of Negation are very different cards; there's more to them then just being "0 mana counterspell". Figuring out the one you actually want to run is very deck-dependent. You gotta lean into a quadrant-theory-style of thinking a little more.
most of richard's takes also involve him talking about being able to win the game right now. Pact is incredible if you can win NOW but if you can't it's insanely fucking dead in your hand meaning it's not flexible AT ALL. Force is flexible as long as you have another blue card in hand, but you DO go down a card. Fierce is GOD TIER if you ever play your fucking commander which most people DO while some people on clash really just don't a lot of the time... When you look at clash honestly like offer you can't refuse and even regular counterspell end up being kind of the best counterspells??? but even then they tend to tap out lol if I'm ever playing against anybody other than Crim I'm not afraid to run out ANYTHING I want especially if I have a counter in hand cuz there's 0 chance they have interaction for my board lol easiest famous commander players to body if you want to.
In my experience ive not had a game where the great henge came down and didnt immediately take over the game. Meathook is in a similar boat where it just does insane work, though, since it doesn't draw cards its more under the radar on how impactful it is
The One Ring is at its best when you can use its draw ability to chain into a new one ring and keep the protection going. That’s why it’s a modern staple but not as good in commander. Still an incredible card even not at its best, but I can definitely see Richard’s point.
"Just don't play the best cards" doesn't work in the current edh format. In brackets we'll definitely play the next best alternatives- but those cards will become pricier as a result...
This. The focus on rule zero and “self restraint” doesn’t work in reality in the wild. The purpose of ban lists is to facilitate games between random players and you can’t trust random players to handicap themselves for “fun”
@@Lazydino59 indeed. In the brackets people may not play great henge, but they will still play rishkar's expertise and last march of the ents. Craterhoof might be off limits, but they can still play overrun. Each bracket will develop it's own meta and it's own definition of "over powered staples". The only saving grace is that those cards won't be the current staples.
"its bad because it dies to farewell!" lol yep everythings bad vs farewell (except maybe nezahal the best blue creature, who also triggers guardian project everytime it comes back!)
Tomer: "I don't understand why I either win or get knocked out first." Also Tomer: "If you're not drawing 10 cards at once and terrifying everyone, what are we even doing here?" Richard: "Casting my commander could put a target on me. On an unrelated note, no idea why I win every season."
Everyone: (*Freaking out over Richard’s latest insane take*) Richard, watching another comment about him rise to the top and get hundreds of engagements: “Excellent…”
Here’s how you test this Richard. Play Pact of Negation make a note on your phone and tally how many times you wish it was Fierce Guardianship / you wouldn’t have lost if it was.
This whole discussion raises the question of what will happen to the prices of some of these cards if they end up in bracket 3 or 4. Depending on how much play groups and players in general expect you to stick to brackets, having a single bracket 4 card in your deck could mean that you have to buy a bunch more for your deck to hold its own, that might make them less popular. It's hard to imagine a card that can't be included as easily as before retaining 100% of its value. That might be good for players, but only those that haven't just spent $50+ on one of those cards.
I think pact of negation is really strong in simic or ugx decks, you have so much mana that the 5mana cost next turn is negligible. Is it better than fierce? Depends on the commander cost and meta to counter creatures but both are so good that you might as well run both if you want to tune the deck to the max.
Regarding tutors and lands. You can also play less lands, and 0 tutors - if you run cheap efficient card draw. Cards like Chart a Course, Winged Words, Glimpse the Impossible, and Night’s Whispers do wonders for letting you hit your land drops.
If I remember correctly, Drannith spiked from being a sideboard tech in Pioneer when the discover Geological Appraiser combo was prevalent before the ban.
Kind of a corner case but my mono-blue voltron deck almost always has my commander out and has protection for days (phasing, hexproof, counters) so Fierce is amazing in there
Except it's less consistent than having redundancy for all your key effects. It finds you your graveyard silver bullet but you've not lost consistency for every other silver bullet
I haven't played a single blue deck lately and thought "oh, this fierce is a really bad card, i wish it was a pact of negation". it saved my ass from stupid combos all the time, stopped multiple farewells,... such a good card. is it worth its price? hell no. is it a blue staple? hell yes.
Richards take on fierce guardianship has extremely poor logic. It literally is the spell that keeps you commander on the battlefield and is perfectly passable as a 3 mana counter if comes down to it. Typically agree with Richard on stuff like spot removal but not a good or well thought out take.
This comes off as Insulting a member of our community's intelligence. Please be better, take time for self reflection and reduce the vitriol you are contributing in our community.
@@Pug8 edited comment, wasn't trying to insult but to call out poor logic on his take. However it did look bad, so switched it to be more line what I was trying to say. Apologies, will consider more accurate language in the future
Regarding OG duals, their price is absolutely ridiculous for what they do, BUT having them gives an indescribable feeling of “compleation” to your deck.
I am still happy that I bought The One Ring last year for 60€ hence I knew how good it is through the Goldfish Podcast and I can say it is so obnoxiously strong I won almost every game where I casted it.
Talking about the meathook massacre, people really forget about Bastion of Rememberance, which is meatball without the wrath, and its also like a $2 card
Bastion is even better than “meathook without the wrath” because both modes trigger on your creatures dying, so you don’t need to count on your opponents having creatures to get the life gain.
Watching Richard is like watching a clip from *insert news network you hate here* , I disagree so much with what's being said but I can't look away when I see a clip
I understand where they’re coming from on the One Ring, but it’s very funny to me to say “I’m not going to run the One Ring because of price,” and then recommend Trouble in Pairs ($20+), Rhystic Study ($30+), Last March of the Ents ($22+). Like, 1. You need more than 4 card draw spells in every deck, and 2. All of these cards are expensive, while being locked to certain colors. When you buy the One Ring you’re buying a card draw spell you can put in absolutely everything, which makes its price a little more understandable for me. Now would I pay $70 for it? No, but that’s why I picked it up when it dropped in price to like $35 around the Modern bnr 😅
Drannith Magistrate will slow down all those 3-4 MV value engine commanders delaying their ability to run away with advantage. Getting hated out is far more meta dependent. Locally salty cards are common so the heat doesn't last. Plus, if you build a deck to be less commander focused, another player dropping the magistrate is often a boon (assuming the 99 also doesn't rely on casting from elsewhere).
I run Radagast the Brown instead of Beast Whisperer or Guardian project in a lot of decks. The card selection is great and its not a "draw" so you can't get blown out by bowmasters.
Sorry Richard. You lose all credibility when you say fierce guardianship “sucks”. It may not be the funnest card, the most affordable card or whatever but it doesn’t just suck bro.
I feel like Richard does not get the props he deserves as a business owner. I think he has put in a lot of work to get to where he is at, is thoughtful about the people he hires, and has a good business mind. He s someone that i could call a friend as well as a boss.
This podcast is really interesting since a lot of the card arguments I feel fall more under play style/ play philosophy first and then price as the justification. Fierce Guardianship for Richard “my opponents will expend their resources”, Demonic Tutor for Crim “I don’t like tutors”, Great Henge for Tomer “burst draw is better than incremental draw” and Secret Lairs for Seth “what’s an x-men?” This podcast didn’t really change my mind on any of the cards brought up since every card comes from a personal standpoint rather than an actual card power to price imbalance that isn’t justified.
Fierce Guardianship counters Farwell than on your turn cast your Farwell. They cast Pack of Negation minus 5 mana for turn. Untap Up Keep pays 5 mana Draw plays land pass. Huge temp. Huge.
Free spells are pretty good/expensive and I've chosen to keep all of them out of my decks. It never feels good telling someone "I'm gonna kill that/counter that/save my thing" for literally free.
These are all some of the best cards in edh (excluding secret lair). Worth every penny IF your playgroup plays on the same power level. Otherwise you are spending a lot of money just to realize that you feel bad for playing them.
I'm building a Seance commander deck around Kodama and Ravos. Pulling an Ojer Taq at my Ixalan draft last weekend (boxes are cheap okay?) was doooope! I wish there was a good commander for Abzan populate...
Anikthea, Hand of Erebos. She turns your Parellel Lives into creature tokens so you can populate the populate cards to populate populate targets with even more populate.
surprised with the take on Avacyn. There are exile effects, but not that much. Certainly depends on the table, but I'm still finding it asks a tough question that leads to a lot of wins.
I had a Demonic Tutor in my Dimir deck and sure it gets me what I need but it bothered me how simply it could be done, I think Id have more fun with something like a Rhystic Tutor because it requires me to look around at open mana or try and make deals to cast
I really think they need to do a Texas Chainsaw Massacre secret lair, with art inspired from scenes in the movies - Meathook Massacre spells with art showing the killing gallery, VIllage Rites with the banquet, Deadly Rollick with leatherface spinning around with the chainsaw, etc. Would SOOO build a whole deck around that.
Take into consideration that the money you would be spending on these cards are 1 of 99 cards in your deck. In that respect, its hard to justify paying a lot for that insignificant of a deck upgrade. Obviously these cards are expensive because they are powerful staples. This whole cast ended up being "heres expensive card that could just be filled by any card," "yeah, but its broken and a staple! Spend $30+ on that specific piece of cardboard!"
Just wanna say that for whatever reason I love doubling season and bought one because of that. I totally agree that it is probably not worth the price especially with so many other doublers out there but I still love it.
I would add for commander: the green overlord. Its 3 mana for a tapped land or 5 for it plus a medium boddy without relevant abilities ... Even in 5 colours you stil need double green on turn 3 .... For commander not worth the price... The artwork is very cool though😊
I have to agree with Richard on The One Ring. When the card was first spoiled I said it is not that good. After a year of playing with and against it, I can say it really isn’t that good. I tried to make it good, jamming it in almost every deck. If you can abuse it then it becomes the best card in your deck. By abuse I mean combo with it to draw your entire deck. In cEDH, especially tournament play, it is way too slow and the protection means nothing. When games are decided turn two and three The One Ring is a dead card in your deck. In casual where games tend to go longer it may be good incremental value, but there are better card draw spells and effects. Currently I have Th One Ring in one deck, Sméagol Helpful Guide. For the flavor only as it is a Lord of The Rungs deck with LOTR art down to the map basics from the set.
Great podcast as always fam. Thanks for this and thanks for reminding me to get a Lara Croft foil Secret Lair for myself for Xmas. 100% will be more bloatrously expensive than my UW Pauper Familiars deck (Around $600 USD)
Actually forgot I got a Pact of Negation from my Mystery Booster 2 box. I am going throw that in my Omo deck since she usually has so much mana I can easily pay the cost. So glad I pick up a Meathook Massacre when it was 25 with some trade ins.
“Your commander dies to removal. Everyone else’s commanders die to removal. Don’t play 1-for-1 removal, it sucks. Everyone always has enough 1-for-1 removal to kill your threats.” And on and on it goes.
Yeah sounds impossible, yet with Christina Ann Tucker, I've come to the conclusion that financially anything is possible. I got my self my dream car 🚗 just last weekend and a whooping $320k in savings already, My journey with her started after my best friend came back from New York and saw me suffering in debt then told me about her and how to change my life through her. Christina A. Tucker is the kind of person one needs in his or her life! I got a home, a good wife, and a beautiful daughter. Note!:: this is not a promotion but me trying to make a point that no matter what happens, always have faith and keep living!!
I play Greymond, Avacyn's Stalwart and Drannith Magistrate in my Kyler, Sigardian Emissary. Greymond is a better anthem than my commander and Drannith works as a lightningrod for my commander. Awesome cards.
You guys jsut created the next free counter spell... Counter target spell. If that spell targeted your commander you may cast this spell without paying its mana cost.
Richard saying Pact is good because you use it only to win the game and don't care about the next turn.... but they other big use of a free counter is to prevent an opponent from winning, and in that case you care A LOT about your next turn
you cast a thing - they counter it - you pact - they remove a key piece that prevents you from winning. cool now you can't win and are down 5 mana next turn. good job idiot lol at least you got your other piece out? haha fierce's only downside is your commander being in play which is when you're most likely to cast it (often), and pact's downside is it's ONLY useable turns you are going to win, but doesn't even guarantee it otherwise you basically lose a turn. it's SUPER niche.
i'm glad the crew brought up cards like Great Henge, Guardian Project, Beast Whisperer etc. because i've found myself souring on cards like these and much preferring burst card draw spells instead, to the point where I think cards like Guardian Project are just bad.
Funny, I’ve felt the exact other way and have been preferring efficient draw to burst draw. I find burst draw will make you perceived as threatening more often and you discard so much to hand size (everything these days has card advantage stapled to it) that I’d rather snowball my advantage than spike it
@@Lazydino59 funny enough I was actually thinking of the efficient burst draw like the Night Whispers and Sign in Bloods of the world while I was writing this so I have the best of both worlds lol
I had hard time finding enough wizards in b/wf or the party time precon. Drannith Magistrate is only 2 and a wizard! It goes in! There's just not that many out there.
This might be Richard’s worst take of all time. Fierce Guardianship is miles ahead of Pact of Negation in terms of viability (in Casual Commander especially). He’s so contrarian it’s laughable sometimes.
I’m having a hard time thinking market value for a cardboard card can be 50+ dollars. It’s wild. I’ve just started printing any card over 10 bucks off as a proxy with a colour printer. Once sleeved no one can tell the difference unless they pick it up. I always let people know I have proxy’s (I even have 100% proxy decks) but even then, it’s commander - we’re playing for fun. Who cares. There’s something to be said about the inaccessibility these of these crazy prices of cards.
"It's too fair? Is that the F word?" That's a quote. You can drop all kinds of slander about my cards...but don't you DARE call my card fair...you harlot! The ultimate insult: "This man only plays fair"
![Gunna - HIM ALL ALONG [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HiCxoDeo0hc/mqdefault.jpg)
Surely the number one reason to skip on Fierce Guardianship is having the money to get your boyfriend a key to the apartment.
Bumping this so the next comment of the week can be something actually funny instead of Richards rancid takes yet again lol
Also trying to bump this for funny comments of the week instead of uninspired Richard-hate. Save the comments for when you see him in Vegas or other cons, or not at all.
I want this to be featured. It would be so funny.
This is hilarious. Definitely deserves the feature
@@Wobbegong1234 bro if my SO buys a magic card instead of a house key for me I'm all in she's a keeper cuz she plays magic. But like I'll still be salty tho
Crim, Seth and Tomer: This card is good but it isn't worth the ridiculous price
Richard, taking a long drag of a cigarette: the last man who tried putting Fierce Guardianship in my deck was found cold and dead in a ditch
Richard logic be like “commanders are constantly being removed nowadays, so a free counterspell that saves your commander from any removal spell is obviously garbage!”
Yeah it seems like a misunderstanding of what the card is.
I think its more due to using counters to:
A) Stiffle your opponents combo.
B) Protect your combo.
Which for both it does not do that well due to the fact it requires your commander, making it easier to play around.
I am so sick of these garbage hot takes.
Yeah, the card plays best if played as if it says "counter target spell that targets your commander" except it also counters wraths.
EXACTLY
I think a budget alternative to Fierce Guardianship is Stubborn Denial. If your commander has 4+ power it is only 1 mana to cost.
spell pierce can work wonders as well, as well as offer you can't refuse
Well, if we start with that, actual Counterspell is only one more mana than that.
@@metatron8578 The problem is that there really aren't decent "budget" alternatives to free counterspells. So, if you can't pay 0 mana for a counterspell the next best place is 1 mana where there are lots of great budget pieces.
One mana is a lot, which is also why stubborn is notably worse than guardianship, but keeping 2 blue up is also notably more sus
Bolt bend is also sick
Richard: this week we'll talk about budget!
Tomer "Budget" Commander: it's show time
15:01 richard: “it’s really hard to stick my commander”
The rest of the crew : that’s the point of fierce.
Richard’s logic filter is clogged.
I've been sitting in silence for 10 mins just trying to begin wrapping my head around Richard hating a free counter spell that could protect your commander, in the world he set the table for, where people are always coming for your commander. Just wild lmao
But also everyone else will have the spot removal, because he doesn’t run that.
It's an odd leap of logic. My commander dies a lot -> This spell is only free if I have my commander -> This spell is not reliably free.
That's because Richard loves playing uncommon commanders and jank ones that provide him low amounts of value and aren't an engine
Here’s the secret to understanding Richard logic: he does it for the engagement. No insane takes = no comments about insane takes
@@andyspendlove1019can’t people are still saying this about Richard’s decks! You can look them up, the man really doesn’t run Sword to Plowshares!
Richard's commander takes were so good that they've experienced an overflow error and are all just...bad.
Richard...you're having trouble sticking your commander *because you aren't running Fierce Guardianship.*
I think his point about having Fierce Guardianship in hand and someone trying to remove your commander basically forces you to use it, which makes it kinda less like a consistent free counterspell you can use to push through a win and more like a protection spell with extra utility. I think you could even argue that in a board wipe heavy meta Fierce Guardianship is worse than a normal protection spell because it helps your opponents too. He should probably just play more counterspells in general though lol
@@efiug Except in the same breath he admitted that 90% of the time if you can stick your commander, you can pull ahead.
Richard is really loving his new fame. "Pact of Negation is better than Fierce Guardianship" is just so on brand and so incredibly wrong :)
It’s correct in cedh tbf
I think it's correct unless your commander is super cheap like Yuriko ou Rograkh.
@@baconsir1159 Nah, Pact is almost gone from cEDH at this point. I'd bet that Fierce is in 3x as many decks.
@@ElisaKaysCauldron It’s closer than I thought, but the prevalence of Rog Si is probably skewing the numbers a bit imo. In the past month there are 403 top 16s with Fierce, only 380 with Pact. Source is MTGtop8
A fun podcast topic would be each of you coming up with the five cards that best represent you in commander.
So like Phil's Spellbook would be:
Lunar Force
Agent of Treachery
Last March of the Ents
Lonis
Tireless Tracker
I completely forgot about Lunar force. That card is so cool
What about Faerie Artisans
Aminatou’s Augury
My biggest budget save was printing my deck off at the library for 6 quid.
And NOT play at LGS lmfao
LGS doesn't say a thing
@@Nemissis4265 almost everyone at my lgs proxies and no one has a problem with it. People love the game being accessible to all!
Glad someone said it.
Best way to save your wallet is proxy often.
And just like the kid from school who had to wear a plain shirt 2 sizes too big, because their parents wanted to save money, everyone will play with you.
This man is consistent. He did say in the free spell bracket that he thought Pact of Negation was the best free counterspell over Fierce Guardianship and Force of Will
Edit: This was also the same man who did indeed bait out Cam's Fierce Guardianship on Play to Win with Swords to Plowshares and proceeded to Generous Gift Underworld Breach causing Cam to be the first to lose the game.
Richard was on play to win??
@@alexliang1040I went back and watched two episodes with him in them from 3 years ago. He plays Ardenn/Rograkh. The second game is the galaxy brain play.
@@mrbelbobaggins8959 Tomer with the assist
Y’all missed the part of the analysis on Great Henge that those other green card draw spells can largely get dumpstered by an instant-speed bounce/removal/phase out on your big creature. Once Great Henge is on the stack, it’s too late for opponents to respond.
Proxy if your group is cool with it. Life is too expensive and its great there are cheap options available.
Here's the hero. But do it anyway. Your friends should not be pay walling your table. Proxy and forget about it. They will never know the difference.
@@Zookmottin Agreed. If they’re unhappy with the cards you’re proxying, ask why. A lot of time it’s a power consideration rather than proxies per se.
I feel like the crew is approaching the ramp, fog, and wrath singularity. If you play assuming creatures will just always die, then you'll all end up playing pillowfort or draw go control. LOL
Demonic tutor for a bounce land is such a great play. It’s the kind of non flashy play that can save your game
I can't believe Richard didn't use the Richard argument for The One Ring. It gets you killed and it's too slow to protect you past the 1 turn of protection.
Richard has said it's so powerful it wins a 1v3. So even though it makes you arch enemy. It's still one of the best cards you can play. It's just not a fun card.
Tomer is right, one opponent's commander could literally say "when this creature enters the battlefield you win the game" and you will get gunned down by the other two for having a Drannith Magistrate
I think part of the disconnect is that fierce isn't an all-purpose counterspell. It's pretty much a protection spell for your commander that also has additional utility sometimes. I don't run it in the counterspell slots of my decks. If you try conceptualizing it that way, you might find yourself finding a home for it more often.
You're right. It goes with the flawless maneuver/clever concealment package, and generally just in decks that require you to have many permanents to do the thing.
My predictions for this (every) weeks podcast
- Seth will over react the entire cast but close it out by tell the audience not to over react
- Tomer will be cautiously optimistic
- Crim will continue to be the voice of reason
- Richard will realize yet again that he is, in fact, very old
Richard's take on Fierce is wild af
Crim is criminally underated, interaction goat.
I see what you did there!
Love the Avacyn/Armageddon editor add-in
I think the main difference between pact of negation and fierce guardian ship is: pact is a combo protection counter that sometimes if neccessary can be used to protect your commander and. Fierce is a commander pritection counter that sometimes can be used to protect your combo if it hadn't to be used earlier.
Guardianship could’ve been made more fair if it was this:
2U - Instant
If you target a noncreature spell that targets your commander, you may cast this spell without paying its mana cost.
Counter target noncreature spell.
"Who's going to target my commander?"
"Everyone plays seeepers, nobody plays targeted removal"
Richard, please pick one.
He does pick one. It's just whichever one suits his narrative at the time.
The alternative to every single one of these is "pretend they dont exist". None of these are required to make a strong deck for casual play (not cEDH or high powered casual).
When Richard says things like "buying Lara Croft or The Fourteenth Doctor isn't something you do because they're a good card, it's something you do because you love the character, and that makes it worth buying" it's so real, it's such a good understanding of Commander that it shocks me.
It's an obvious take though. There aren't many of the mechanically unique SL cards that are generically good like Rick is for humans, most are niche, novel commanders like Lara Croft that don't fit particularly well in other decks. I don't honestly think many of these cards see play in a lot of other decks, their price is only high for their availability, not because there is a lot of demand.
@Benjammn A take so obvious Seth immediately argued with him haha. One of the things that makes this podcast interesting is that the crew are predominantly 60 card competitive players whose opinions are incredibly influenced by that fact. Richard dropping the "subjectivity/nuance over objective analysis" is the most "Commander Woke" thing the podcast has ever seen
One thing I've noticed with Richard's card evaluation is that he likes comparing cards 1:1 too much. Fierce Guardianship and Pact of Negation are very different cards; there's more to them then just being "0 mana counterspell". Figuring out the one you actually want to run is very deck-dependent. You gotta lean into a quadrant-theory-style of thinking a little more.
most of richard's takes also involve him talking about being able to win the game right now.
Pact is incredible if you can win NOW but if you can't it's insanely fucking dead in your hand meaning it's not flexible AT ALL.
Force is flexible as long as you have another blue card in hand, but you DO go down a card.
Fierce is GOD TIER if you ever play your fucking commander which most people DO while some people on clash really just don't a lot of the time...
When you look at clash honestly like offer you can't refuse and even regular counterspell end up being kind of the best counterspells??? but even then they tend to tap out lol if I'm ever playing against anybody other than Crim I'm not afraid to run out ANYTHING I want especially if I have a counter in hand cuz there's 0 chance they have interaction for my board lol easiest famous commander players to body if you want to.
Bro i just spent 350 bucks for most of my newest deck. Luckily it was justified since not a single one of those cards was on this list
It baffles me how the fourteenth doctor is so expensive and The Celestial Toymaker isn't. That is by far my favorite commander to play.
Eleventh Doctor gang all day everyday, dastardly Toymaker! ( I love The Toymaker though so 😂 )
The thing that makes fierce guardianship worse is that its far easier to play around when compared to pact.
Richard's philosophy is build scared and play scared, but make everyone else scared of the same things as you.
He is Norin the Wary incarnate.
Came for the topic, stayed to watch Richard poopoo everything that’s not a 1/1 bird
In my experience ive not had a game where the great henge came down and didnt immediately take over the game.
Meathook is in a similar boat where it just does insane work, though, since it doesn't draw cards its more under the radar on how impactful it is
The One Ring is at its best when you can use its draw ability to chain into a new one ring and keep the protection going. That’s why it’s a modern staple but not as good in commander. Still an incredible card even not at its best, but I can definitely see Richard’s point.
I truly appreciate Richard rolling with the punches. Bracket 4 goldfish imo.
Good to see the crew react like the comments to Richard's theories
"Just don't play the best cards" doesn't work in the current edh format. In brackets we'll definitely play the next best alternatives- but those cards will become pricier as a result...
This. The focus on rule zero and “self restraint” doesn’t work in reality in the wild. The purpose of ban lists is to facilitate games between random players and you can’t trust random players to handicap themselves for “fun”
@@Lazydino59 indeed. In the brackets people may not play great henge, but they will still play rishkar's expertise and last march of the ents. Craterhoof might be off limits, but they can still play overrun. Each bracket will develop it's own meta and it's own definition of "over powered staples". The only saving grace is that those cards won't be the current staples.
"its bad because it dies to farewell!" lol yep everythings bad vs farewell (except maybe nezahal the best blue creature, who also triggers guardian project everytime it comes back!)
My biggest gripe about this episode is they dont talk replacements much and make it situational not analytical. Lol
Tomer: "I don't understand why I either win or get knocked out first." Also Tomer: "If you're not drawing 10 cards at once and terrifying everyone, what are we even doing here?" Richard: "Casting my commander could put a target on me. On an unrelated note, no idea why I win every season."
Everyone: (*Freaking out over Richard’s latest insane take*)
Richard, watching another comment about him rise to the top and get hundreds of engagements: “Excellent…”
Petting his cat
Here’s how you test this Richard. Play Pact of Negation make a note on your phone and tally how many times you wish it was Fierce Guardianship / you wouldn’t have lost if it was.
This whole discussion raises the question of what will happen to the prices of some of these cards if they end up in bracket 3 or 4. Depending on how much play groups and players in general expect you to stick to brackets, having a single bracket 4 card in your deck could mean that you have to buy a bunch more for your deck to hold its own, that might make them less popular. It's hard to imagine a card that can't be included as easily as before retaining 100% of its value. That might be good for players, but only those that haven't just spent $50+ on one of those cards.
I think pact of negation is really strong in simic or ugx decks, you have so much mana that the 5mana cost next turn is negligible. Is it better than fierce? Depends on the commander cost and meta to counter creatures but both are so good that you might as well run both if you want to tune the deck to the max.
Regarding tutors and lands. You can also play less lands, and 0 tutors - if you run cheap efficient card draw.
Cards like Chart a Course, Winged Words, Glimpse the Impossible, and Night’s Whispers do wonders for letting you hit your land drops.
Seth's reaction to "a good draw spell" is so funny
This whole episode made me want to proxy more cards.
If I remember correctly, Drannith spiked from being a sideboard tech in Pioneer when the discover Geological Appraiser combo was prevalent before the ban.
Kind of a corner case but my mono-blue voltron deck almost always has my commander out and has protection for days (phasing, hexproof, counters) so Fierce is amazing in there
Demonic Tutor is really good, consistency is everything especially for two mana.
Except it's less consistent than having redundancy for all your key effects. It finds you your graveyard silver bullet but you've not lost consistency for every other silver bullet
Richard’s the kind of guy to pay 3UU and take a turn off in order to counter a spell. It’s like casting a Time Warp for each of your opponents!
I haven't played a single blue deck lately and thought "oh, this fierce is a really bad card, i wish it was a pact of negation".
it saved my ass from stupid combos all the time, stopped multiple farewells,...
such a good card. is it worth its price? hell no. is it a blue staple? hell yes.
Richards take on fierce guardianship has extremely poor logic. It literally is the spell that keeps you commander on the battlefield and is perfectly passable as a 3 mana counter if comes down to it. Typically agree with Richard on stuff like spot removal but not a good or well thought out take.
This comes off as Insulting a member of our community's intelligence. Please be better, take time for self reflection and reduce the vitriol you are contributing in our community.
@@Pug8 edited comment, wasn't trying to insult but to call out poor logic on his take. However it did look bad, so switched it to be more line what I was trying to say. Apologies, will consider more accurate language in the future
Regarding OG duals, their price is absolutely ridiculous for what they do, BUT having them gives an indescribable feeling of “compleation” to your deck.
Some really good cards in this podcast! Super excited to pick up a Fierce Guardianship and a Demonic Tutor now!
Tomer doesn’t play 3 mana tutors? Then whose Toshiro list is this??
I am still happy that I bought The One Ring last year for 60€ hence I knew how good it is through the Goldfish Podcast and I can say it is so obnoxiously strong I won almost every game where I casted it.
Talking about the meathook massacre, people really forget about Bastion of Rememberance, which is meatball without the wrath, and its also like a $2 card
Bastion is even better than “meathook without the wrath” because both modes trigger on your creatures dying, so you don’t need to count on your opponents having creatures to get the life gain.
Watching Richard is like watching a clip from *insert news network you hate here* , I disagree so much with what's being said but I can't look away when I see a clip
I understand where they’re coming from on the One Ring, but it’s very funny to me to say “I’m not going to run the One Ring because of price,” and then recommend Trouble in Pairs ($20+), Rhystic Study ($30+), Last March of the Ents ($22+). Like, 1. You need more than 4 card draw spells in every deck, and 2. All of these cards are expensive, while being locked to certain colors. When you buy the One Ring you’re buying a card draw spell you can put in absolutely everything, which makes its price a little more understandable for me. Now would I pay $70 for it? No, but that’s why I picked it up when it dropped in price to like $35 around the Modern bnr 😅
If you’re using demonic tutor to search for lands it definitely isn’t worth it lol
Drannith Magistrate will slow down all those 3-4 MV value engine commanders delaying their ability to run away with advantage. Getting hated out is far more meta dependent. Locally salty cards are common so the heat doesn't last. Plus, if you build a deck to be less commander focused, another player dropping the magistrate is often a boon (assuming the 99 also doesn't rely on casting from elsewhere).
I run Radagast the Brown instead of Beast Whisperer or Guardian project in a lot of decks. The card selection is great and its not a "draw" so you can't get blown out by bowmasters.
Sorry Richard. You lose all credibility when you say fierce guardianship “sucks”. It may not be the funnest card, the most affordable card or whatever but it doesn’t just suck bro.
I feel like Richard does not get the props he deserves as a business owner. I think he has put in a lot of work to get to where he is at, is thoughtful about the people he hires, and has a good business mind. He s someone that i could call a friend as well as a boss.
This podcast is really interesting since a lot of the card arguments I feel fall more under play style/ play philosophy first and then price as the justification. Fierce Guardianship for Richard “my opponents will expend their resources”, Demonic Tutor for Crim “I don’t like tutors”, Great Henge for Tomer “burst draw is better than incremental draw” and Secret Lairs for Seth “what’s an x-men?” This podcast didn’t really change my mind on any of the cards brought up since every card comes from a personal standpoint rather than an actual card power to price imbalance that isn’t justified.
Fierce Guardianship counters Farwell than on your turn cast your Farwell. They cast Pack of Negation minus 5 mana for turn. Untap Up Keep pays 5 mana Draw plays land pass. Huge temp. Huge.
Free spells are pretty good/expensive and I've chosen to keep all of them out of my decks. It never feels good telling someone "I'm gonna kill that/counter that/save my thing" for literally free.
I for one will say this: I appreciate Richard's consistency even though I don't necessarily agree.
These are all some of the best cards in edh (excluding secret lair). Worth every penny IF your playgroup plays on the same power level. Otherwise you are spending a lot of money just to realize that you feel bad for playing them.
Pact of Negation could also be better than Fierce Guardianship if someone tries to counter your Commander.
Richard's commander takes walk a fina line between genius and trash
I'm building a Seance commander deck around Kodama and Ravos. Pulling an Ojer Taq at my Ixalan draft last weekend (boxes are cheap okay?) was doooope!
I wish there was a good commander for Abzan populate...
Anikthea, Hand of Erebos. She turns your Parellel Lives into creature tokens so you can populate the populate cards to populate populate targets with even more populate.
surprised with the take on Avacyn. There are exile effects, but not that much. Certainly depends on the table, but I'm still finding it asks a tough question that leads to a lot of wins.
I had a Demonic Tutor in my Dimir deck and sure it gets me what I need but it bothered me how simply it could be done, I think Id have more fun with something like a Rhystic Tutor because it requires me to look around at open mana or try and make deals to cast
I really think they need to do a Texas Chainsaw Massacre secret lair, with art inspired from scenes in the movies - Meathook Massacre spells with art showing the killing gallery, VIllage Rites with the banquet, Deadly Rollick with leatherface spinning around with the chainsaw, etc. Would SOOO build a whole deck around that.
Take into consideration that the money you would be spending on these cards are 1 of 99 cards in your deck. In that respect, its hard to justify paying a lot for that insignificant of a deck upgrade.
Obviously these cards are expensive because they are powerful staples.
This whole cast ended up being "heres expensive card that could just be filled by any card," "yeah, but its broken and a staple! Spend $30+ on that specific piece of cardboard!"
If Richard is running over 34 lands, if it’s not a lands matter deck, no wonder the takes down matter
If Goldfish had a board of directors, they would see Richard’s take on Fierce Guardianship being worse than Pact and remove him from office.
The One Ring is slow to ramp up but +3, +4, +5 cards is cracked
Just wanna say that for whatever reason I love doubling season and bought one because of that. I totally agree that it is probably not worth the price especially with so many other doublers out there but I still love it.
I would add for commander: the green overlord. Its 3 mana for a tapped land or 5 for it plus a medium boddy without relevant abilities ... Even in 5 colours you stil need double green on turn 3 .... For commander not worth the price... The artwork is very cool though😊
I have to agree with Richard on The One Ring. When the card was first spoiled I said it is not that good. After a year of playing with and against it, I can say it really isn’t that good. I tried to make it good, jamming it in almost every deck. If you can abuse it then it becomes the best card in your deck. By abuse I mean combo with it to draw your entire deck.
In cEDH, especially tournament play, it is way too slow and the protection means nothing. When games are decided turn two and three The One Ring is a dead card in your deck.
In casual where games tend to go longer it may be good incremental value, but there are better card draw spells and effects.
Currently I have Th One Ring in one deck, Sméagol Helpful Guide. For the flavor only as it is a Lord of The Rungs deck with LOTR art down to the map basics from the set.
The Great Hinge is a ritual and card draw in JUND Storm! It isn't replaceable.
Great podcast as always fam.
Thanks for this and thanks for reminding me to get a Lara Croft foil Secret Lair for myself for Xmas.
100% will be more bloatrously expensive than my UW Pauper Familiars deck (Around $600 USD)
Actually forgot I got a Pact of Negation from my Mystery Booster 2 box. I am going throw that in my Omo deck since she usually has so much mana I can easily pay the cost.
So glad I pick up a Meathook Massacre when it was 25 with some trade ins.
I really hate the 'dies to *insert removal here*' argument. Just, full stop.
“Your commander dies to removal. Everyone else’s commanders die to removal. Don’t play 1-for-1 removal, it sucks. Everyone always has enough 1-for-1 removal to kill your threats.”
And on and on it goes.
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I'm feeling really motivated.
Could you share some details about the bi-weekly topic you brought up?
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Wow 😱 I know her too!
Miss Christina Ann Tucker is a remarkable individual whom has brought immense positivity and inspiration into my life.
I got started with a miserly $1500. The results have been mind blowing I must say TBH!!
I play Greymond, Avacyn's Stalwart and Drannith Magistrate in my Kyler, Sigardian Emissary. Greymond is a better anthem than my commander and Drannith works as a lightningrod for my commander. Awesome cards.
Richard, the CMM full art Fierce Guardianship is the best printing anyway
You guys jsut created the next free counter spell... Counter target spell. If that spell targeted your commander you may cast this spell without paying its mana cost.
Richard saying Pact is good because you use it only to win the game and don't care about the next turn.... but they other big use of a free counter is to prevent an opponent from winning, and in that case you care A LOT about your next turn
you cast a thing - they counter it - you pact - they remove a key piece that prevents you from winning.
cool now you can't win and are down 5 mana next turn. good job idiot lol at least you got your other piece out? haha fierce's only downside is your commander being in play which is when you're most likely to cast it (often), and pact's downside is it's ONLY useable turns you are going to win, but doesn't even guarantee it otherwise you basically lose a turn. it's SUPER niche.
i'm glad the crew brought up cards like Great Henge, Guardian Project, Beast Whisperer etc. because i've found myself souring on cards like these and much preferring burst card draw spells instead, to the point where I think cards like Guardian Project are just bad.
Funny, I’ve felt the exact other way and have been preferring efficient draw to burst draw. I find burst draw will make you perceived as threatening more often and you discard so much to hand size (everything these days has card advantage stapled to it) that I’d rather snowball my advantage than spike it
@@Lazydino59 funny enough I was actually thinking of the efficient burst draw like the Night Whispers and Sign in Bloods of the world while I was writing this so I have the best of both worlds lol
I had hard time finding enough wizards in b/wf or the party time precon. Drannith Magistrate is only 2 and a wizard! It goes in! There's just not that many out there.
This might be Richard’s worst take of all time. Fierce Guardianship is miles ahead of Pact of Negation in terms of viability (in Casual Commander especially).
He’s so contrarian it’s laughable sometimes.
Fierce isn't worth it for most people because most aren't playing games that are fast/efficient enough to warrant it
Great tips. Also, just proxy. It's fun.
I’m having a hard time thinking market value for a cardboard card can be 50+ dollars. It’s wild. I’ve just started printing any card over 10 bucks off as a proxy with a colour printer. Once sleeved no one can tell the difference unless they pick it up. I always let people know I have proxy’s (I even have 100% proxy decks) but even then, it’s commander - we’re playing for fun. Who cares.
There’s something to be said about the inaccessibility these of these crazy prices of cards.
"It's too fair? Is that the F word?" That's a quote. You can drop all kinds of slander about my cards...but don't you DARE call my card fair...you harlot! The ultimate insult: "This man only plays fair"