I think it might have been the Gracie brothers on youtube who said something like this: "Is it a bad idea to go to the ground if you have multiple potential opponents? Sure. In a lot of situations you might want to keep the fight standing. Well, the stuff we teach is the exact skills you need to keep from getting taken down, and also the skills you need to get up again if you're on the ground and don't want to be. And then you have the option to fight standing or run away." We've seen this innumerable times in MMA. Someone who has no grappling skills will get taken down immediately, they have no way to defend against it. And if you're on the ground and knows zero grappling, you're helpless against a fighter with a basic ground game. So while it is true that rolling around trying to get a choke is a bad strategy if the guy you're doing it against has buddies who might jump in (On da streetz!), I don't see how that leads anyone to conclude that they don't need to know any grappling at all. It's puzzling. Cheers
I mean even on "da streetz" you won't commonly be facing groups of people. If you find yourself in that position I hope you carry a gun lol. However atleast from the view of "martial" arts groundfighting is not a go to approach for any combat situation, unless you just legitimately have no other skills. Also just bugs me that as soon as you say "grappling" everybody's mind jumps straight to groundfighting (which is really more of a subsection of "grappling") and Gracie jujitsu specifically is the only art to ever place a primary focus on groundfighting for those very reasons.
@@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812 Yep, to all of that. And even the Gracies (if my memory didn't make a fool outta me, as it is wont to do) said much the same thing. And I don't hear anybody saying that you need to be a grappler before striker, or have an amazing ground game. What you need is more than zero; you need to have a working clinch, takedown defense and a way of getting out from groundfight and up on your feet before you're choked, knifed or kicked in the head. As for the stupidity of trying to fight several opponents: Yes, but... I've seen fights between two guys where there are other guys standing around and kinda mulling over whether to jump in or not. There's a lotta rules when guys fight, even [On Da Streetz]. (Might not be the same rules in different places, and they might not be vigilantly enforced, but still.) I'm just saying that even if you think you're in a fight with one guy, there are situations where that might change into a dogpile, and a choke or a nasty armbar might be the thing that swings it. Or just be a bad place to be when it happens. Finally, I live in Sweden. People here don't have access to handguns, unless they're career criminals. And even those guys will normally need to send a runner to the other person holding their gun for them, before they can try to shoot somebody.
From what I've seen in footage on crime shows, most fights don't start with both guys taking a stance and feeling each other out. It's either a sucker punch or one guy grabs a hold of the other and starts trying to rag them around, usually hitting them with the other hand. I trained japanese jiu-jitsu for a number of years and one focus was standing escape techniques and throws. The down side was simplistic ground work, we didn't even do defending from punches from on the back, and all of our escape moves were done with a compliant, stationary partner. Never once did we train with the idea of someone putting a standing rear naked choke on us and tries to bury us into the ground, despite the fact that's how we trained to use a rear naked choke. I believe that you should train to fight on all levels, standing, to kneeling, to ground, even if it's just a focus of how to get back to your feet.
@@danguillou713 i definitely agree with the more than zero part, while still emphasizing avoiding groundfighting as much as possible. Standup grappling applications are very useful tho and put you at much less risk of any of that. And I've personally fought several people at a time, and won but fortunately none of them were trained to do so lol. And yes definitely want to be aware of where you are, I'm in the southern United States for example where we handout a free gun with every bottle of liquor lmao.
Ok Ramsey but how will grappling save me if the US government* sends 60 armed Navy Seals to hunt me down? My kungfu master could deal with it usings his chi powers
60 navy seals? I would run Like mad then find a dealer living close buy , buy weed from that guy, and while smoking i would yell to them Wait let me finish my joint 😂😂 I don’t smoke it anymore i was a escape when i had a burn-out i am glad that it is behind me. Now i practise mauy Thai, finaly a real martial art, my Former gym was a mc dojo
Had a buddy who consistently said he "didn't want to learn grappling" because eye gouges, wrist breaks, and throat punches were "more effective" for self defense. Eventually he accepted my invitation to come out to the dojo and we had a fun experiment where he was allowed to try any of that as much as he wanted on me or my instructor and the thing we learned that day was: nothing is effective if I can control your arms... with my grappling... AND FURTHERMORE... i'm more likely to be able to land those "dirty boxing" type strikes if I can keep my cool and put my body in good positions. He signed up for classes.
Reminds me of a friend of a training partner who quit BJJ when he realized he could grab his opponent’s balls in any position and my coach was like “yeah but I can put myself in a better position to grab balls”
What bothers me the most in self-defense discussions is that people mix up self-defense and street fighting together all the time, and they think self-defense is equal to a group of guys in front of a bar starting a fight. One of the most common types, if not *the* most common type of violence, is domestic and intimate partner violence. It might be your long-term partner, it might be someone you've recently got to know and are at their apartment, and they attack you. That's almost certainly a one-on-one situation. Anecdotally, since I turned 20 or so, there's been exactly two violent situations I've encountered: One was a very drunk person in a train picking a fight. I didn't have to intervene. Once they started pushing someone, a few passengers stood up and kind of pushed him away and then the security threw him out at the next stop. Another is where I did have to intervene was at a festival. Mosh pit got a bit wild, there were some previous annoyances between two guys, and of them pushed the other in the face and the other guy reacted by taking the other down (with a basic double leg, no less) and tried to start punching them on the ground, so I dove between them and pushed the other guy away. If I had not been there, and given the person being taken down didn't know how to grapple, he would have gotten punched around pretty badly. I've never seen a gang fight. I've never been chased by a gang. I know that can happen, but I'd say grappling experience is not any less important there, because maybe you could disengage when grabbed and turn to run away successfully. Your best chance at surviving unscatched would, I think, be to quickly build distance, and the tool you might need might be grappling, might be a jab, might be a teep. All that said of course situational awareness and not hanging in shady places will already protect you from +90% of violent encounters, and basic talking and de-escalation skills typically take care of the rest.
Indeed. You should keep in mind here on the internet there are people from all over the world and in any different continent, country and region the situation of crime and everyday life is different. That's why I give the advice to my friends who travel abroad to learn the prevalent types of danger and try avoiding them in the country they are going to - best type of self-defense - get the knowledge and response accordingly. On the topic of preparation - having a good physique is better than being a good fighter. People tend to de-escalate themselves if their lizard brain is shocked by the size of the muscles of people near them. Understanding body mechanics and how to fight helps but is last resort, having a thick wooden stick will help more (some funny videos in Hard2Hurt channel about which type of equipment are good for 'self-defense' or basically fighting). Anything which can be used as a basic weapon will multiple the available force and can help you deal significant damage to anyone who you whack. I personally know some nutjobs carrying knives and other popular small weapons in very safe country and talk about how they will defend themselves. Having a long thick stick - like cane or walking poles will be both more advantageous and safer - double so in the court of law.
One doesn't necessarily need to be a submission artist in order to defend themselves, but at the bare minimum learning how to break holds and get off the ground so you can run away is vital.
that's exactly what i did, I learned two years of bjj to break holds n chokes n get back on my feet! I'm a striker mainly but knew i needed the other tools
Senseless Bro: "You don't need grappling 'cause you never use groundfighting ON DA STREETZ!" Common Sense Bro: "But what if the _other guy_ tackles me and gets on top?" Senseless Bro: "Just stand up, bro!" Common Sense Bro: "That's what grappling is for."
But you could also avoid that by training wrestling and learn to avoid getting taken down. You would also learn to get the opponents down on the ground without you. Learning to fight only on the ground leads to complications if the opponent doesn't agree with that plan. Sitting down may work in competitions, but it's not that awesome in a real fight.
@@znail4675(1) Wrestling _is_ a form of grappling. (2) When did I say you should learn _only_ groundfighting? (3) When did I say you should “sit down” in a real fight?
@@znail4675I haven't seen you arguing against my previous comment. Maybe you did, but your comment got shadow-banned for having certain words. If your comment can't be found while logged out, then it can't be read by anyone.
@@skulls.n.guns.22 I didn't think we had much to discuss. But as you asked, (1) Yes, but you made arguments for groundfighting being useful on the street. (2) The main style that trains a lot of groundfighting is BJJ and it's almost exclusively focused on that. (3) It's what commonly happens in competitions when BJJ trained people faces opponents that they can't get to the ground in any other way. So, I mostly consider BJJ over hyped as self defense, but if we agree on that then we don't have much disagreements.
When some people talk about street they picture it as a place where you will meet many deadly Ninja and gangster like in Gotham city but in reality the only realistic scenario that you will meet is an argument against a middle age dude in bkack Friday 😂
While going to the ground in a self defense scenario can often be a bad idea, there are also many examples of competent grapplers resolving dangerous situations by taking someone down and controlling them. "Always do x" and "Never do y" is just bad advice. Even if it's a good general principle, there will be exceptions.
Nothing is perfect. But the truth is, fighting has three dimensions. 1. Striking. 2. Clinch. 3. Grappling. And you don't get to decide where the fight goes. So you better be able to pull off any of them.
I was watching a video the other day about how most animals that have horns, have them primarily for intraspecific combat, or fighting each other for dominance. A lot of them would be not very useful for defense against predators, because the point is to get the opponent to give up without hurting them (animals of the same species, particularly herbivores, try to not kill each other because trying to kill the opponent means the opponent has incentive to try to kill as well). The animals with horns that are useful against predators usually don't fight each other with their horns, because the risk would be serious injury or death. Not really related to the video, just interesting to note the parallels about how things that may be good for real self defense may not be useful for competitive purposes and vice versa.
True. And especially herbivores with strong hooves usually use their kicks for defending against predators. It also comes with the added advantage that they're rear kicks, so they can kick a predator that is right behind them and take off if they need to. Although predators are often smart enough to approach from the side instead.
The two fundamental methods of applied violence: Manipulation/Control through grappling/framing and destruction by kintetic attacks. Both ways are part of the game and a good fighter has to be able to use both and ideally switch and flow seeminglessly between them. Reuniting what should never have been seperated in the first place.
I hear the exact same arguments about my HEMA classes from time to time. "Well why would ya learn to swing a sword around when guns exist?!" ...Why are you sticking around to fight guys with guns if all you have is a sword? What context are YOU talking about? Not to mention places where it's not legal to carry a firearm but it probably is legal to pick up a vaguely sword like stick. People seem to misunderstand context in fights.
It’s a fair point though - boxing would also lose but the boxers style doesn’t rely on being in one of the most vulnerable positions while engaging in combat (the ground). The BJJ artists’ does. The boxer has the option to strike then flee. The BJJ practioner (maybe) gets a takedown and could flee ideally but if they engage on the ground not the best idea and that’s vast majority of BJJ techniques down the drain. Multiple opponents is FAR more common now and it doesn’t mean 15 it means maybe they have 1-2 friends. Better have solid judo because that’s better off for remaining standing after the takedown. Most of BJJ past blue belt is how to beat other grapplers under a BJJ ruleset. Andrew wiltse (solid BJJ competitor) has some eye opening insights as a bouncer that realized how yes even someone good at BJJ might not be the “killer” the memes and podcasts say
This is so entertaining dude..!! You just can't overemphasize the value of grappling..!! Just the huge variation of stance transitions that allow for snap downs, throws, singles, arm drags, trips, etc....,,, is invaluable..!! That's only the beginning of the journey..!! Most strikers underestimate how much cranial impact wrestlers deal with on a daily basis..!! I know, if you're not seeing white lights in the eyes during any of my explosive transitions, I'm not going hard enough..!! I want you seeing stars as much as possible..!! LOL..!!
honestly as long as u fight doesnt matter what martial arts u train the difference between a good martial artist and a normal person is mind blowing even if they are stronger . most people dont know how to throw a punch or block one
As a stand up martial artist, I have to agree with you 100% on what you said. There is a place and time for everything, and that includes either doing stand up or grappling. You’re 100% correct is saying that it is a stupid argument against grappling. For example, I always got the argument that I was wasting my time practicing the spear because this is the 21sr century. Before I retired as a school custodian, I would pull out my floor scraper, which was a pole with a putty knife taped to the end and tell them that I have a spear with me. 😂😂😂
Even while you are not using grappling offensively against somebody it can still certainly potentially save you in a situation when you are trying to get away or when you are trying to get out of a situation where you are tied up with somebody else.There are certainly arguments which can be made in various situations in regards to going to the ground or getting tied up with another person not necessarily being your go to option while defending yourself against a group of people but that still doesn't mean that grappling is useless, worthless or unnecessary.
It’s funny how Ramsey is disdainful of so much of the kind of “wise ancient master” bs in martial arts and then just casually teaches you why math is important as an incidental aside to get you to learn how to wrestle
The people who make this argument, especially if they are competent strikers, will end up getting super embarrassed if they ever end up getting their face pounded in by some dude who's just sitting on them with no training whatsoever. Embarrassed or dead. Like man, so the possibility that a whole armada is going to materialize to aim kicks at your head as soon as you go to mount is good enough reason to not even get _ok_ at taking on 1 person holding you? You're not going to punch your way out of that worst case scenario either. Grappling is more than pulling guard, being a boxer and seeing a butt-scoot in a tournament and judging the entire field as ineffectiveness in no holds barred, is like if a wrestler watched a boxer enter a clinch, weighing on his opponents arms to exhaust him and said "striking is ineffective, look at the underhooks he's giving up, easy back transition!" You don't want to end up back on the ground? That's fine, grapplers don't either. You learn not to get taken down, you learn to take others down, you learn how to quickly escape from under a person and get back to your feet to re-engage from a better position (or run). Learning to break down posture and sweep is the best way to not get ground and pounded on your back. You can even hit submissions standing up if it's necessary.
3-3 in MMA amateur fights at bars that sponsored them... Trained Taekwondo from the age of 6 to 17, Judo from 12-20 (grappled with wrestlers for HS years) learned Marine Corps Martial Arts and 2 years of BJJ while in the Corps... Still went 3-3... 2 wins by KO 1 by decision, 1 loss by decision and 2 by KO... Started 2-0 then 2-1 then 3-1 then 3-3 and stopped cage fighting for good... I thought it was something I wanted to do but found out that even in wins it sucks and tears your body up... It's not glamorous... It's brutal... And even with what I did in life is never say I could kick anyone's ass on any given day or time (even in da streetz) much love, love your content.
There was a German man in our sambo years ago that did very well in freestyle wrestling back in Europe, so he obviously already had the amino acid chain almost completed between the carrot and the oatmeal for the quest for a protein. Anyways. He was also insanely risky and naive in the city, because unfortunately, as beautiful as the city is during the day, it also has its troubles. Especially at night. There's an actual back alley curfew between 11pm to 7am or so. Too much theft, assaults on new comers, or others. Don't know why anyone would walk down a dark back alley at night. Anyways, my Germab friend was fairly fearless. Even to our gym, he'd walk there like it was no big deal. Some guys lived very close to it in the neighborhood like myself, but he lived many blocks away and had to walk through a few blocks with very high crime and assault rates. He just didn't care though. Sure enough however, one day it did catch up to him. Some men tried to rob him while he was out on a quest for candies and chocolate milk. Yes, nothing like a walk to the store in a city that's ranked 3rd for most violent excluding gun crime in Canada, just simply to buy some chocolate milk and dinosaurs. Who robs someone like that to. I know brigands gladly take what they can get, but if I personallybsaw a jacked chalky white figure walking under the street light at 2am and all he had was candy and chocolate milk, that the last person I'd want to approach and talk to. So these guys gave him a hard tike and didn't want him to continue walking. He said there was 3 of him. Our German friend was a fairly honest guy in our opinion. Was the only bad experience he really had on the city. I think he learnt from it though. We all told him not to walk in the middle of the night. He'd leave our places to after visiting when we always offered him a cab. Even when it was -30 Celsius out, which does not co pletely stop the crime here. So these guys attack him, 3 of them. He could strike, but didnt know how to strike well. Regardless, it sounded like he didn't get a chance to. You can't strike when your swarmed and habe no distance. I experienced that as a bouncer. In that situation, grappling is all you have. Grappling, can be effective in warding off an assault. He was a bit scathed up with minor bruises from their initial attack, but from what he described to us, was that they all probably utilized our provinces free Healthcare shortly after, and he went on with his late night treasures. Not everyones an experienced wrestler, but to counter grapple, control distance, and most of all, know how to control the fight itself is invaluable. Not every fight is like a movie or world star. Where every punch is a knockout. More than not, when I did security work at an adult establishment, I rarely saw anyone succumb to punches. Slams and chokes however were usually an instant fight ender. Odd how both are connected to grappling.
Even my mom knew how important grappling is, and we took judo together when I was 8......that started my lifelong journey, now my daughter is 7, and we are both in goju ryu karate, she started taekwondo when she was 4..... Me and my kid, always play wrestle so she can get grappling fundamentals
Love what you said about mathematics. In my day-to-day work I DO use it quite a bit. I write software simulations that requires quite a bit of physics. But even despite that, I feel like maths (that's what we call it here, unlike the American singular "math") is about training your brain to follow long chains of abstract logic. It's not easy for sure, but if you are persistent and interested in learning it, it certainly expands your mind and makes you aware of beautiful and complex patterns that exist in nature.
Look I fell in love with wrestling as soon as I sparred a wrestler for the first time. My first sparring matches were against a judo guy and a boxer and I worked both of them with way more ease than expected but when I went up against a wrestler, I had never felt so helpless in my life. Dude managed to squeeze the soul out of my body, knock the wind out of me, take me down, and tap me in the longest 15 seconds of my life. Wrestling is the real deal!
I think the idea is more that a normal person won't have the time or the money to dedicate themselves to multiple martial arts disciplines. So if you really think you need to train something for "self defense", thinking about what kind of training will make the most sense is legitimate. And even if people don't like to hear it, I also wouldn't decide on something that basically REQUIRES you to take it to the GROUND, like standard BJJ does. There are several good arguments against it. Generally in self defense, your goal should be to disengage, but in order to fight on the ground, you not only have to engage, but even fully commit to a very very close range and constant contact. No better way to stab someone than to have them grapple around with you. Grappling on the ground also always looks like brawling and people often can't even tell who the aggressor is. Optics are a big part of self defense and you don't wanna look like the drunken thug who's going at it with another goon in front of the club. It's just dumb, sorry. If you have the time and money, sure by all means learn as much as you can, that includes ground fighting, but if you can only do one thing, it would certainly be better to get really good at moving, staying on your feet, shutting someone off very quickly if it can't be helped and disengaging as effectively as you can. It's not something I'm particularly proud of or anything, but I've been in a number of "street fights". Which is a dumb and meaningless term - it was simply dudes getting into my face for one reason or another and deciding to make it physical. I don't think any of them were sober. It never went to the ground. Some guys I nailed with jabs and low kicks, some of them I threw, but it was most certaintly not the made up statistic of "90% of fights ending up on the ground". Well I guess the other dude was made part of the statistic, but you know what I mean.
Yup, one take easily search for street fights and see that in the midst of punching it ends up a wrestle match. Or the loosing party ends up shooting for a takedown.
Nobody can fight a crowd, but a trained striker has a far better chance against two opponents on their feet than any grappler does on the ground. In that situation, the main benefit of knowing grappling is to avoid being taken TO the ground. Anyone who chooses to go the ground against more than one opponent probably loses both the fight and any chance of escape. It's not an argument against knowing grappling per se, which is very important to know; it's an argument against choosing to use the wrong tool in the situation. Although it's certainly not ideal, you can at least strike against multiple opponents, while you can't grapple multiple opponents, regardless of anyone's relative skill level in striking or grappling. Looking at Ramsey's video here against multiple opponents, it's clear that his ability to simply resist at all, win or lose, decreases once he's taken to his knees, let alone taken completely to the ground. "Most people training for self defense will never be in a self defense scenario" - maybe not, and it's just as well if they choose to go the ground against more than one opponent instead of staying on their feet and keeping options open. Yet, if he actually had to deal with more than one opponent, would Ramsey strike while looking for an opportunity to escape, or choose to go to the ground with one of them? What would anybody choose to do and why?
P.S. - Standing grappling techniques that keep you on your feet while putting opponents on the ground would also be a good response to more than one opponent, but no one will do well by going to the ground with them.
@@Malt454yeah, the Sanda approach is probably very intelligent. That being said a big slam on concrete can be rather debilitating and thus eliminating one attacker. Not the worst tool especially for guys with naturally bad ko power
@@badart3204- Yes, simply incapacitating rather than attempting to KO would probably be a good idea anyway. Under stress, the more precise a technique needs to be, the less chance it will be effectively executed. I think judo could also be handy in this way. If you can change the odds in any way, you might also reduce an opponent's enthusiasm to continue. Against multiple opponents, I think the first priority should be escape, so staying on your feet is key. There's just no real way to know who and what you're dealing with. I think that it's often overlooked that self defense is just a successful result, not a fighting system.
Those Ancient Greek Hoplite tactics might work on the battlefield… but try that on da Streetz and we’ll see if your armor, spears, and shield formations save you when I just see red!
Grappling teaches you takedown defense. If you've never done grappling, there is no way 3 dudes won't be able to take you down unless you are a heavyweight pro who can knock anyone out with one punch. And when they take you down, you are as good as dead.
I think a submarine is probably the one place you could fight multiple attackers and not get stomped, though having never done this, I can't say with 100% certainty.
Thanks for pointing this out- as someone who HAS actually had a fight against multiple opponents (once) you hit the nail on the head. I had a 4v2 fight once, and if it had been 4v1, I'd have lost it. People are truly delusional about how dangerous it is to fight multiple opponents by yourself. I would honestly say it's way riskier fighting multiple unarmed opponents than multiple people who all have a knife, assuming you have the same level of armament, because sooner or later, most of the dudes you're fighting are going to realize that if they all pick a limb and control you, they can just stomp your throat in, and they're likely to focus more on the use of a weapon than they are on how lethal completely controlling you can be.
I haven't been training for too long, but I think that the more you train, the more you realize that you are not, will not, and should not, be spending your time in the gym preparing for these fantasy street fightz that you made up in your mind. If you're so concerned about da streetz that everything you do in the gym has to prepare you for that, then I think the problem is where you're directing your mental energy and focus. No amount of martial skill can 'prepare' you for life if you don't give in to the humility that comes with consistent training and learning.
Did you know Seki Toguchi in his book Okinawan Goju Ryu claimed he beat up 6 guys who walked into his dojo challenging him to fight? He said they were armed with clubs too. The reason this is possible is because most people a trained fighter goes up against in a street fight can't take more than 2 good good hits before going to the ground in the fetal position.
I have imagined this and saw it in old boxing. So basically, you'd have them work towards chancery and even throwing punches while coming to grips when they can free an arm for a semi-effective blow, some sources, like Edmund Price, show the fighters in scenarios like one secures chancery and then starts pounding at the face, but then a counter where the guy in chancery grabs the leg and pushes against the chin or throat to toss the guy off of him, freeing him of the situation. You also had the cross buttocks throw from chancery too. Finally, you'd have kicks to the shin,etc which would take place as well. Though assuming London Prize Ring rules, you;'d not see a lot of ground fighting fo the reason that a round was considered over the moment one person was knocked down. (Though this was back when matches lasted for hours potentially) Under the Broughton rules and before Boxing had any codified rule, you had plenty of examples of ground and pound, and while I hven't found much evidence of it, the closeness of British Boxing/Defence to Catch As Catch Can's origin place- being from the same country and all, I would not exclude the possibility that Catch was used in a boxing match at one point. Though boxing was called Defence of for a reason. Art of Defence, Science of Defence,etc, back in the day... it was because before Queensbury Ruls, it was made to as closely as they could conceive of doing so safely, they trained to defend themselves against ruffians as they walked about. You also have evidence of early boxing treatises, and not just vaguely mentioned by champions Mendoza or Belcher, but others as well, which suggests that boxing originated in English fencing with rapier, broadsword, sword and buckler,etc. This shows why certain strategies have maintained themselves to this day, including the cross counter, ducking and dodging,etc. But yes, people should not fear grappling. What they fear is instead going to the ground, but if you're going to the ground, you need to get off the ground. Why not be comfortable with moving on the ground while on the ground with another who is attacking you so you can get off of it if you're in the scenario? I'm not the best fighter myself. I have 16 years HEMA experience, 7 years boxing on( though not professionally, mostly for entertainment and health plus I'm a huge fan of boxing history) and 0 conditioning. I know I would not last long because I tire out fast. However, from a standpoint of knowledge, I can speak confidently and I respect all people in their arts.
Hey there coach. I have a question regarding handling being utterly defeated. I have practiced judo for about 2 , my fitness is not among the best. I ended up sparring against an opponent that went way harder than anyone else at the judo gym. He completely humiliated me. I understand that I am not going very hard because of my weight and caution for injury. Am I out of touch of what judo is about? Have I cuddled myself? Thanks for all the advice over the years
simply cuz how much even boxers clench i'd say a real bar/street fight is on average 65% grappling and only 35% striking yes there are street fights that don't go to the ground and end standing but most end up either in the clench then on the ground or someone just falls(mainly an environment thing like the curb)
Thank you for that ♥( Ramsey Dewey) gave me! I am breaking a promise today about the USD-CShp,i talk one last time.Dear Ramsey,what i observed/learned from you is Valid,precious!Having said that there are Questions.HOW,WHY many dudes wanna kill me?whats going on? You are NOT guilty,normal people turn into Monsters on a daily bases,E.g. Rockconcert,1 drink to much.Conclusio:WE are stacked on each other,dont exercise,and the Energie stays in the system.NO need for areason to punch/strangle a human to death.SAD😭
I agree with your overall assessment, Ramsey, but in all objectivity, I've seen videos of boxers/kickboxers dispatching 2 or 3 assailants on the street, using their very quick and powerful strikes - not something you could do with jiu-jitsu. Obviously, the more assailants the lower those odds get. That being said, I agree that ignoring grappling altogether is a bad idea, if only to learn how to get back up.
Way back when I was in bujinkan ninjutsu we used grappling to train against multiple opponents and I still think that's the best way to do it. Clinch up with the guy and keep hitting him and use him as a shield against the other guys. Is it difficult? Is fighting multiple people harder than 1? That's one of the few things I liked about bujinkan, that practice was the closest we got to sparring but the principles helped when I started sparring with people that had an idea of how to fight and suggested 2v1s.
It's like the same argument against kicks in the streetz, and they always mention tight pants and having your kick caught. Nevermind the fact that we already have contingency plans for getting kicks caught, and tight pants don't mitigate low kicks at all. I've seen more grabbing in Boxing than I've seen in MMA, at least in MMA takedowns and clinch strikes happen.
“Any person who is an expert in physical art in which the hands and feet are used as deadly weapons, is required to register with the Department of Revenue and Taxation.”
Yeah all I'm going to say is that the krav maga super mega self defence instructor who came to our bjj academy started avoiding eye contact when it was time to roll and I was just a mid tier blue belt at the time.
But Coach Ramsey, Sean Strickland is a BJJ Black belt and he said the second he got that black belt he threw it away because he said “BJJ doesn’t work in a fight.”
There was a video of a guy in the street who was being attacked by 4 guys, and he kept backing off and knocking out the attackers one at a time. So maybe there's a small advantage in being a strong elite striker in a 1-v-2 or 1-v-3 situation compared to being only an elite grappler. That said, the one with the best chance of survival is the complete fighter with both striking and grappling. In that situation, the complete fighter should employ a quick knockout strategy vs taking down one of the opponents.
I have been in many "street" fights since the age of 6, and maybe 1 out of 12 didn't end up in some type of grappling scenario. Maybe 2 of such fights that occurred younger in my age (7 and 12) I ended up getting jumped.
It’s against laws not to register if you’re trained as a martial artist. if you’re convicted of using martial arts to physically assault another person you are guilty of aggravated assault.
Aside from talking oneself out of learning something useful, I just don't see how learning how to drop people on their butts can sound unfun to anyone.
I miss the old style of boxing where the clinch was part of the fight and the ref would let them work, telling them to fight out of the clinch. Then if they were just resting the ref would break them apart. Now, the ref starts in on them as soon as they get the slightest bit tangled.
Catch Wrestling beats old school boxing. I was ringside when Professor Otto Schoenfeld lost 3 falls to 2 to young upstart Toots Mondt in Dogtooth North Dakota.
People who talk about "on da streets" are always the people who have never been in a gymnin their life. A fight "on da streets" is a failure of situational awareness.
I thought you were gonna say "if you get into a fight with a bunch of dudes, no matter what you do they're going to grapple you" because of course they would especially if you're an amazing striker.
Grappling is the most useful thing in a street fight wheather thats catch wrestling, folk style, Greco Roman, judo, bjj( newaza judo) or what thats why muay thai is a great stricking art because the clinch.
Honestly Judo is probably the best martial art if you are attacked by multiple people in the street. Your only realistic chance of winning against multiple opponents is to get away from them. Judo teaches you to throw or trip someone who us trying to hold you or take you to the ground so you can run away. And that's decisive because, if all you want to do is run away, someone has to hold you or take you to the ground before your mob of assailants can actually hit you with any force.
"on the streets, I will do this do that so you better pray figters!" Well fighters can do the same to you,now with more power,speed,accuracy,and even more stamina to keep going😂
Any kind of extreme is bad. Grappling is necessary to be able to survive in a real no rules fight but techniques that are viable outside are completely different from combat sports meta. That's the whole difference. One must simply be aware of that. Some MMA gyms even teach that because trainers are fully aware that 90% of people don't go there to eventually compete in the octagon.
I'm 54 years old, Karate Black belt, BJJ Brown belt, trained MMA for last 10 years and never got in a street fight ? Maybe I'm one of those guys that is affraid and don't know how to fight ;)
Thank you! This argument is my absolute pet peeve. There is no martial art that will make you into Bruce Lee if 3 dudes want to jump you in an alley. If you need to fight "multiple opponents" then I hope you are a well rounded fighter, and I hope you have friends, because you are probably fucked otherwise.
I would suggest high level wrestling is probably one of the best skill sets to have if you have 2 or 3 guys of lesser ability attacking you. You have a lot better chance of staying standing, and getting back up with those skills. I've seen a video of a highschool wrestler fighting off 3 other high schoolers, throwing them around as they try to swing and grab at him unsuccessfully, kept it moving, stayed on his feet. Regardless you're always going to be having an uphill battle against multiple people. Your skill has to outweigh theirs by a good amount for a chance. For some reason, what I assume are lower level boxers, think they're just going to put one after another's lights out. Surely it could happen, but this assumption nobody will take a punch or slip a punch is very wishful thinking. I feel like any amount of sparring(especially hard boxing sparring) would prevent people from getting this impression. And it's like the idea that someone grabbing ahold of them, never crossed their mind.
I watched the footage of you facing multiple opponents, Ramsey, and I have to say... If Captain Krav Maga were in your shoes, he would have groin kicked your opponents into oblivion.
"...like Captain America did in that elevator."
You don't understand, Ramsey. When i see RED WHITE and BLUE I become The Captain.
¡Jajajajaja! 哈哈哈哈哈哈！kkkkkkkkkkk! 55555555! Mwahahahahahaha!
I had to laugh in five languages at that! It was funny.😅
@@RamseyDeweywhat language laughs with 5s?
@@theBestInvertebrateThai
@@RamseyDewey cool, thanks.
Captain America was on performance enhancing drugs.
I think it might have been the Gracie brothers on youtube who said something like this: "Is it a bad idea to go to the ground if you have multiple potential opponents? Sure. In a lot of situations you might want to keep the fight standing. Well, the stuff we teach is the exact skills you need to keep from getting taken down, and also the skills you need to get up again if you're on the ground and don't want to be. And then you have the option to fight standing or run away."
We've seen this innumerable times in MMA. Someone who has no grappling skills will get taken down immediately, they have no way to defend against it. And if you're on the ground and knows zero grappling, you're helpless against a fighter with a basic ground game. So while it is true that rolling around trying to get a choke is a bad strategy if the guy you're doing it against has buddies who might jump in (On da streetz!), I don't see how that leads anyone to conclude that they don't need to know any grappling at all. It's puzzling.
Cheers
I mean even on "da streetz" you won't commonly be facing groups of people. If you find yourself in that position I hope you carry a gun lol. However atleast from the view of "martial" arts groundfighting is not a go to approach for any combat situation, unless you just legitimately have no other skills. Also just bugs me that as soon as you say "grappling" everybody's mind jumps straight to groundfighting (which is really more of a subsection of "grappling") and Gracie jujitsu specifically is the only art to ever place a primary focus on groundfighting for those very reasons.
@@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812 Yep, to all of that. And even the Gracies (if my memory didn't make a fool outta me, as it is wont to do) said much the same thing.
And I don't hear anybody saying that you need to be a grappler before striker, or have an amazing ground game. What you need is more than zero; you need to have a working clinch, takedown defense and a way of getting out from groundfight and up on your feet before you're choked, knifed or kicked in the head.
As for the stupidity of trying to fight several opponents: Yes, but... I've seen fights between two guys where there are other guys standing around and kinda mulling over whether to jump in or not. There's a lotta rules when guys fight, even [On Da Streetz]. (Might not be the same rules in different places, and they might not be vigilantly enforced, but still.) I'm just saying that even if you think you're in a fight with one guy, there are situations where that might change into a dogpile, and a choke or a nasty armbar might be the thing that swings it. Or just be a bad place to be when it happens.
Finally, I live in Sweden. People here don't have access to handguns, unless they're career criminals. And even those guys will normally need to send a runner to the other person holding their gun for them, before they can try to shoot somebody.
Been saying this for years 😅
From what I've seen in footage on crime shows, most fights don't start with both guys taking a stance and feeling each other out. It's either a sucker punch or one guy grabs a hold of the other and starts trying to rag them around, usually hitting them with the other hand. I trained japanese jiu-jitsu for a number of years and one focus was standing escape techniques and throws. The down side was simplistic ground work, we didn't even do defending from punches from on the back, and all of our escape moves were done with a compliant, stationary partner. Never once did we train with the idea of someone putting a standing rear naked choke on us and tries to bury us into the ground, despite the fact that's how we trained to use a rear naked choke. I believe that you should train to fight on all levels, standing, to kneeling, to ground, even if it's just a focus of how to get back to your feet.
@@danguillou713 i definitely agree with the more than zero part, while still emphasizing avoiding groundfighting as much as possible. Standup grappling applications are very useful tho and put you at much less risk of any of that. And I've personally fought several people at a time, and won but fortunately none of them were trained to do so lol. And yes definitely want to be aware of where you are, I'm in the southern United States for example where we handout a free gun with every bottle of liquor lmao.
Ok Ramsey but how will grappling save me if the US government* sends 60 armed Navy Seals to hunt me down? My kungfu master could deal with it usings his chi powers
Get yourself a camera man
60 navy seals?
I would run Like mad then find a dealer living close buy , buy weed from that guy, and while smoking i would yell to them
Wait let me finish my joint 😂😂
I don’t smoke it anymore i was a escape when i had a burn-out i am glad that it is behind me.
Now i practise mauy Thai, finaly a real martial art, my Former gym was a mc dojo
Navy probably wouldn't listen to army orders so you're good. 😂
Nothing a well placed Hadoken can't handle IMHO.
Learning math WILL save you in "Da Streetz" because you can easily add up the odds! Walking away is better if at all possible! LOL
Basically, people who get in to street fights on purpose probably failed math class
LOL
Stop
MMAth, fo’ da streetz!
Facts
Had a buddy who consistently said he "didn't want to learn grappling" because eye gouges, wrist breaks, and throat punches were "more effective" for self defense. Eventually he accepted my invitation to come out to the dojo and we had a fun experiment where he was allowed to try any of that as much as he wanted on me or my instructor and the thing we learned that day was: nothing is effective if I can control your arms... with my grappling... AND FURTHERMORE... i'm more likely to be able to land those "dirty boxing" type strikes if I can keep my cool and put my body in good positions. He signed up for classes.
Joke’s on him: wrist breaking is grappling!
@@RamseyDewey I will say my Hapkido experience was a fun way to learn more about human anatomy! And what NOT to do with it! Lol
Reminds me of a friend of a training partner who quit BJJ when he realized he could grab his opponent’s balls in any position and my coach was like “yeah but I can put myself in a better position to grab balls”
What bothers me the most in self-defense discussions is that people mix up self-defense and street fighting together all the time, and they think self-defense is equal to a group of guys in front of a bar starting a fight.
One of the most common types, if not *the* most common type of violence, is domestic and intimate partner violence. It might be your long-term partner, it might be someone you've recently got to know and are at their apartment, and they attack you. That's almost certainly a one-on-one situation.
Anecdotally, since I turned 20 or so, there's been exactly two violent situations I've encountered: One was a very drunk person in a train picking a fight. I didn't have to intervene. Once they started pushing someone, a few passengers stood up and kind of pushed him away and then the security threw him out at the next stop.
Another is where I did have to intervene was at a festival. Mosh pit got a bit wild, there were some previous annoyances between two guys, and of them pushed the other in the face and the other guy reacted by taking the other down (with a basic double leg, no less) and tried to start punching them on the ground, so I dove between them and pushed the other guy away. If I had not been there, and given the person being taken down didn't know how to grapple, he would have gotten punched around pretty badly.
I've never seen a gang fight. I've never been chased by a gang. I know that can happen, but I'd say grappling experience is not any less important there, because maybe you could disengage when grabbed and turn to run away successfully. Your best chance at surviving unscatched would, I think, be to quickly build distance, and the tool you might need might be grappling, might be a jab, might be a teep.
All that said of course situational awareness and not hanging in shady places will already protect you from +90% of violent encounters, and basic talking and de-escalation skills typically take care of the rest.
Indeed.
You should keep in mind here on the internet there are people from all over the world and in any different continent, country and region the situation of crime and everyday life is different. That's why I give the advice to my friends who travel abroad to learn the prevalent types of danger and try avoiding them in the country they are going to - best type of self-defense - get the knowledge and response accordingly.
On the topic of preparation - having a good physique is better than being a good fighter. People tend to de-escalate themselves if their lizard brain is shocked by the size of the muscles of people near them.
Understanding body mechanics and how to fight helps but is last resort, having a thick wooden stick will help more (some funny videos in Hard2Hurt channel about which type of equipment are good for 'self-defense' or basically fighting). Anything which can be used as a basic weapon will multiple the available force and can help you deal significant damage to anyone who you whack.
I personally know some nutjobs carrying knives and other popular small weapons in very safe country and talk about how they will defend themselves. Having a long thick stick - like cane or walking poles will be both more advantageous and safer - double so in the court of law.
“That’ll never work on the streetz” - says the beer belly dude from behind a keyboard.
One doesn't necessarily need to be a submission artist in order to defend themselves, but at the bare minimum learning how to break holds and get off the ground so you can run away is vital.
that's exactly what i did, I learned two years of bjj to break holds n chokes n get back on my feet! I'm a striker mainly but knew i needed the other tools
also i learned how to defend the clinch to break out of it forgot to mention that!
Lesson for life
"Excuse to talk yourself out of greatness. Stop it"
Greatness may be out of my reach, but even competence is a realistic, worthy goal.
Senseless Bro: "You don't need grappling 'cause you never use groundfighting ON DA STREETZ!"
Common Sense Bro: "But what if the _other guy_ tackles me and gets on top?"
Senseless Bro: "Just stand up, bro!"
Common Sense Bro: "That's what grappling is for."
I very much like this comment. ❤
But you could also avoid that by training wrestling and learn to avoid getting taken down.
You would also learn to get the opponents down on the ground without you.
Learning to fight only on the ground leads to complications if the opponent doesn't agree with that plan.
Sitting down may work in competitions, but it's not that awesome in a real fight.
@@znail4675(1) Wrestling _is_ a form of grappling. (2) When did I say you should learn _only_ groundfighting? (3) When did I say you should “sit down” in a real fight?
@@znail4675I haven't seen you arguing against my previous comment. Maybe you did, but your comment got shadow-banned for having certain words. If your comment can't be found while logged out, then it can't be read by anyone.
@@skulls.n.guns.22 I didn't think we had much to discuss. But as you asked,
(1) Yes, but you made arguments for groundfighting being useful on the street.
(2) The main style that trains a lot of groundfighting is BJJ and it's almost exclusively focused on that.
(3) It's what commonly happens in competitions when BJJ trained people faces opponents that they can't get to the ground in any other way.
So, I mostly consider BJJ over hyped as self defense, but if we agree on that then we don't have much disagreements.
When some people talk about street they picture it as a place where you will meet many deadly Ninja and gangster like in Gotham city but in reality the only realistic scenario that you will meet is an argument against a middle age dude in bkack Friday 😂
While going to the ground in a self defense scenario can often be a bad idea, there are also many examples of competent grapplers resolving dangerous situations by taking someone down and controlling them. "Always do x" and "Never do y" is just bad advice. Even if it's a good general principle, there will be exceptions.
Nothing is perfect. But the truth is, fighting has three dimensions. 1. Striking. 2. Clinch. 3. Grappling.
And you don't get to decide where the fight goes. So you better be able to pull off any of them.
Clinching is grappling.
@@RamseyDeweythen the third dimension is evading!
I think he means ground grappling BJJ style vs Standup grappling Muay Thai Clinch or Judo style, basically before a takedown occurs @@RamseyDewey
don't forget chi manipulation and throwing chi balls like ryu.
Where do sniper rifles fit into this?
There might be zero grappling in a fight, or 100%, or 28%. If you can't strike AND grapple then you are likely unprepared.
I agree with everything you said. Even learning basics of grappling like breakfalls will help you.
I was watching a video the other day about how most animals that have horns, have them primarily for intraspecific combat, or fighting each other for dominance. A lot of them would be not very useful for defense against predators, because the point is to get the opponent to give up without hurting them (animals of the same species, particularly herbivores, try to not kill each other because trying to kill the opponent means the opponent has incentive to try to kill as well). The animals with horns that are useful against predators usually don't fight each other with their horns, because the risk would be serious injury or death.
Not really related to the video, just interesting to note the parallels about how things that may be good for real self defense may not be useful for competitive purposes and vice versa.
Are you getting jumped by animals or something
@@carlossssssss5492No, I don't live in Australia
True. And especially herbivores with strong hooves usually use their kicks for defending against predators. It also comes with the added advantage that they're rear kicks, so they can kick a predator that is right behind them and take off if they need to. Although predators are often smart enough to approach from the side instead.
The two fundamental methods of applied violence: Manipulation/Control through grappling/framing and destruction by kintetic attacks. Both ways are part of the game and a good fighter has to be able to use both and ideally switch and flow seeminglessly between them. Reuniting what should never have been seperated in the first place.
Grabbing is a close distance tech , some people don't understand that
I hear the exact same arguments about my HEMA classes from time to time. "Well why would ya learn to swing a sword around when guns exist?!"
...Why are you sticking around to fight guys with guns if all you have is a sword? What context are YOU talking about?
Not to mention places where it's not legal to carry a firearm but it probably is legal to pick up a vaguely sword like stick. People seem to misunderstand context in fights.
Yeah I think the main thing these people don’t realize is that the ability to avoid grappling is itself a grappling skill
Still think Fo Da Streetz sounds like some undescriptible heldritch horror from beyond the stars.
Nope it sounds stupid and illiterate
It sure does!
Pssshh... That's nothing Master Wong can't handle.
"Acting like they won't get command grabbed."
-- Dr. Smug, Ph. D
I like the idea of boiling it down to "Any hand-to-hand fighting technique will probably lose against a greater number of hands."
It’s a fair point though - boxing would also lose but the boxers style doesn’t rely on being in one of the most vulnerable positions while engaging in combat (the ground). The BJJ artists’ does.
The boxer has the option to strike then flee. The BJJ practioner (maybe) gets a takedown and could flee ideally but if they engage on the ground not the best idea and that’s vast majority of BJJ techniques down the drain.
Multiple opponents is FAR more common now and it doesn’t mean 15 it means maybe they have 1-2 friends. Better have solid judo because that’s better off for remaining standing after the takedown.
Most of BJJ past blue belt is how to beat other grapplers under a BJJ ruleset. Andrew wiltse (solid BJJ competitor) has some eye opening insights as a bouncer that realized how yes even someone good at BJJ might not be the “killer” the memes and podcasts say
If your opponent tackles you, you don’t get a choice if you’re grappling.
I love the algebra analogy! Also, your Shanghai students seem like nice guys. Great video. 谢谢老师 🫡
I have seen a boxer bodyslam another boxer once, that was wild.
This is so entertaining dude..!! You just can't overemphasize the value of grappling..!! Just the huge variation of stance transitions that allow for snap downs, throws, singles, arm drags, trips, etc....,,, is invaluable..!! That's only the beginning of the journey..!! Most strikers underestimate how much cranial impact wrestlers deal with on a daily basis..!! I know, if you're not seeing white lights in the eyes during any of my explosive transitions, I'm not going hard enough..!! I want you seeing stars as much as possible..!! LOL..!!
honestly as long as u fight doesnt matter what martial arts u train the difference between a good martial artist and a normal person is mind blowing even if they are stronger . most people dont know how to throw a punch or block one
I don't do striking because grappling is superior and I don't do grappling because it doesn't work against multiple opponents. 😎
How much do you charge for lessons?
@@MrMagnaniman £2.99 and a Charleston Chew. 😆😉
As a stand up martial artist, I have to agree with you 100% on what you said. There is a place and time for everything, and that includes either doing stand up or grappling.
You’re 100% correct is saying that it is a stupid argument against grappling.
For example, I always got the argument that I was wasting my time practicing the spear because this is the 21sr century.
Before I retired as a school custodian, I would pull out my floor scraper, which was a pole with a putty knife taped to the end and tell them that I have a spear with me. 😂😂😂
Did you know that half of grappling is standing up?
@@RamseyDewey I don’t get it. Do you mean getting back up to a standing position after you went to the ground?
@@blockmasterscottperforming a takedown happens when grappling standing up (ie judo throws)
@@Sbv-25 Ahh ok, that makes sense. Thank you so much for explaining! 👍
Even while you are not using grappling offensively against somebody it can still certainly potentially save you in a situation when you are trying to get away or when you are trying to get out of a situation where you are tied up with somebody else.There are certainly arguments which can be made in various situations in regards to going to the ground or getting tied up with another person not necessarily being your go to option while defending yourself against a group of people but that still doesn't mean that grappling is useless, worthless or unnecessary.
"5 hyenas can defeat 1 lion, therefore I have a better chance fighting the "useless" lion than fighting one hyena" - anti-marital arts people logic
It’s funny how Ramsey is disdainful of so much of the kind of “wise ancient master” bs in martial arts and then just casually teaches you why math is important as an incidental aside to get you to learn how to wrestle
The people who make this argument, especially if they are competent strikers, will end up getting super embarrassed if they ever end up getting their face pounded in by some dude who's just sitting on them with no training whatsoever. Embarrassed or dead.
Like man, so the possibility that a whole armada is going to materialize to aim kicks at your head as soon as you go to mount is good enough reason to not even get _ok_ at taking on 1 person holding you? You're not going to punch your way out of that worst case scenario either.
Grappling is more than pulling guard, being a boxer and seeing a butt-scoot in a tournament and judging the entire field as ineffectiveness in no holds barred, is like if a wrestler watched a boxer enter a clinch, weighing on his opponents arms to exhaust him and said "striking is ineffective, look at the underhooks he's giving up, easy back transition!"
You don't want to end up back on the ground? That's fine, grapplers don't either. You learn not to get taken down, you learn to take others down, you learn how to quickly escape from under a person and get back to your feet to re-engage from a better position (or run). Learning to break down posture and sweep is the best way to not get ground and pounded on your back. You can even hit submissions standing up if it's necessary.
Nothing but facts in this video, good job
Trust me, if the fight goes to the ground video games got me covered! I got a whole bunch of moves memorized 😂😂
3-3 in MMA amateur fights at bars that sponsored them... Trained Taekwondo from the age of 6 to 17, Judo from 12-20 (grappled with wrestlers for HS years) learned Marine Corps Martial Arts and 2 years of BJJ while in the Corps... Still went 3-3... 2 wins by KO 1 by decision, 1 loss by decision and 2 by KO... Started 2-0 then 2-1 then 3-1 then 3-3 and stopped cage fighting for good... I thought it was something I wanted to do but found out that even in wins it sucks and tears your body up... It's not glamorous... It's brutal... And even with what I did in life is never say I could kick anyone's ass on any given day or time (even in da streetz) much love, love your content.
Da streetz always be da streetz, fo' shizzle ma nizzle!
I am so glad Master Dewey immediately recognised the old Konfusious quote!😍
There was a German man in our sambo years ago that did very well in freestyle wrestling back in Europe, so he obviously already had the amino acid chain almost completed between the carrot and the oatmeal for the quest for a protein. Anyways. He was also insanely risky and naive in the city, because unfortunately, as beautiful as the city is during the day, it also has its troubles. Especially at night. There's an actual back alley curfew between 11pm to 7am or so. Too much theft, assaults on new comers, or others. Don't know why anyone would walk down a dark back alley at night. Anyways, my Germab friend was fairly fearless. Even to our gym, he'd walk there like it was no big deal. Some guys lived very close to it in the neighborhood like myself, but he lived many blocks away and had to walk through a few blocks with very high crime and assault rates. He just didn't care though. Sure enough however, one day it did catch up to him. Some men tried to rob him while he was out on a quest for candies and chocolate milk. Yes, nothing like a walk to the store in a city that's ranked 3rd for most violent excluding gun crime in Canada, just simply to buy some chocolate milk and dinosaurs. Who robs someone like that to. I know brigands gladly take what they can get, but if I personallybsaw a jacked chalky white figure walking under the street light at 2am and all he had was candy and chocolate milk, that the last person I'd want to approach and talk to. So these guys gave him a hard tike and didn't want him to continue walking. He said there was 3 of him. Our German friend was a fairly honest guy in our opinion. Was the only bad experience he really had on the city. I think he learnt from it though. We all told him not to walk in the middle of the night. He'd leave our places to after visiting when we always offered him a cab. Even when it was -30 Celsius out, which does not co pletely stop the crime here. So these guys attack him, 3 of them. He could strike, but didnt know how to strike well. Regardless, it sounded like he didn't get a chance to. You can't strike when your swarmed and habe no distance. I experienced that as a bouncer. In that situation, grappling is all you have. Grappling, can be effective in warding off an assault. He was a bit scathed up with minor bruises from their initial attack, but from what he described to us, was that they all probably utilized our provinces free Healthcare shortly after, and he went on with his late night treasures. Not everyones an experienced wrestler, but to counter grapple, control distance, and most of all, know how to control the fight itself is invaluable. Not every fight is like a movie or world star. Where every punch is a knockout. More than not, when I did security work at an adult establishment, I rarely saw anyone succumb to punches. Slams and chokes however were usually an instant fight ender. Odd how both are connected to grappling.
That German guys my boyfriend now
Even my mom knew how important grappling is, and we took judo together when I was 8......that started my lifelong journey, now my daughter is 7, and we are both in goju ryu karate, she started taekwondo when she was 4.....
Me and my kid, always play wrestle so she can get grappling fundamentals
hey as an engineer I use algebra all the time.
And if teachers said that, then they’d be right. But most kids don’t end up as engineers.
As a normal person who uses money, I use algebra all the time for finance.
You’ll either invest what you have or pay interest for what you need.
"One step after the next, come what may.... THAT... Is what it means to live"
We need the Mr gastrium origin story ASAP
Mr Gasparotti?
Love what you said about mathematics. In my day-to-day work I DO use it quite a bit. I write software simulations that requires quite a bit of physics. But even despite that, I feel like maths (that's what we call it here, unlike the American singular "math") is about training your brain to follow long chains of abstract logic. It's not easy for sure, but if you are persistent and interested in learning it, it certainly expands your mind and makes you aware of beautiful and complex patterns that exist in nature.
Man, there's so much hugging in boxing... ;)
Look I fell in love with wrestling as soon as I sparred a wrestler for the first time. My first sparring matches were against a judo guy and a boxer and I worked both of them with way more ease than expected but when I went up against a wrestler, I had never felt so helpless in my life. Dude managed to squeeze the soul out of my body, knock the wind out of me, take me down, and tap me in the longest 15 seconds of my life. Wrestling is the real deal!
I really like your history/analogy with mathematics ! So true !
Just use algebra to talk yourself out of a fight against multiple opponents
I think the idea is more that a normal person won't have the time or the money to dedicate themselves to multiple martial arts disciplines. So if you really think you need to train something for "self defense", thinking about what kind of training will make the most sense is legitimate. And even if people don't like to hear it, I also wouldn't decide on something that basically REQUIRES you to take it to the GROUND, like standard BJJ does. There are several good arguments against it. Generally in self defense, your goal should be to disengage, but in order to fight on the ground, you not only have to engage, but even fully commit to a very very close range and constant contact. No better way to stab someone than to have them grapple around with you. Grappling on the ground also always looks like brawling and people often can't even tell who the aggressor is. Optics are a big part of self defense and you don't wanna look like the drunken thug who's going at it with another goon in front of the club. It's just dumb, sorry. If you have the time and money, sure by all means learn as much as you can, that includes ground fighting, but if you can only do one thing, it would certainly be better to get really good at moving, staying on your feet, shutting someone off very quickly if it can't be helped and disengaging as effectively as you can.
It's not something I'm particularly proud of or anything, but I've been in a number of "street fights". Which is a dumb and meaningless term - it was simply dudes getting into my face for one reason or another and deciding to make it physical. I don't think any of them were sober. It never went to the ground. Some guys I nailed with jabs and low kicks, some of them I threw, but it was most certaintly not the made up statistic of "90% of fights ending up on the ground". Well I guess the other dude was made part of the statistic, but you know what I mean.
Even in all Fighting games where the focus is striking. All characters have some form of throw/grapple move for balance purpose.
Great content as always
Yup, one take easily search for street fights and see that in the midst of punching it ends up a wrestle match. Or the loosing party ends up shooting for a takedown.
violence is different with fighting, and now imagine a well trained martial artist goes violent
Nobody can fight a crowd, but a trained striker has a far better chance against two opponents on their feet than any grappler does on the ground. In that situation, the main benefit of knowing grappling is to avoid being taken TO the ground. Anyone who chooses to go the ground against more than one opponent probably loses both the fight and any chance of escape. It's not an argument against knowing grappling per se, which is very important to know; it's an argument against choosing to use the wrong tool in the situation. Although it's certainly not ideal, you can at least strike against multiple opponents, while you can't grapple multiple opponents, regardless of anyone's relative skill level in striking or grappling. Looking at Ramsey's video here against multiple opponents, it's clear that his ability to simply resist at all, win or lose, decreases once he's taken to his knees, let alone taken completely to the ground.
"Most people training for self defense will never be in a self defense scenario" - maybe not, and it's just as well if they choose to go the ground against more than one opponent instead of staying on their feet and keeping options open. Yet, if he actually had to deal with more than one opponent, would Ramsey strike while looking for an opportunity to escape, or choose to go to the ground with one of them? What would anybody choose to do and why?
P.S. - Standing grappling techniques that keep you on your feet while putting opponents on the ground would also be a good response to more than one opponent, but no one will do well by going to the ground with them.
@@Malt454yeah, the Sanda approach is probably very intelligent. That being said a big slam on concrete can be rather debilitating and thus eliminating one attacker. Not the worst tool especially for guys with naturally bad ko power
@@badart3204- Yes, simply incapacitating rather than attempting to KO would probably be a good idea anyway. Under stress, the more precise a technique needs to be, the less chance it will be effectively executed. I think judo could also be handy in this way. If you can change the odds in any way, you might also reduce an opponent's enthusiasm to continue.
Against multiple opponents, I think the first priority should be escape, so staying on your feet is key. There's just no real way to know who and what you're dealing with. I think that it's often overlooked that self defense is just a successful result, not a fighting system.
Practically every warrior throughout history had grappling in his arsenal but I bet those guys didn't try it in the streetz.
Those Ancient Greek Hoplite tactics might work on the battlefield… but try that on da Streetz and we’ll see if your armor, spears, and shield formations save you when I just see red!
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Grappling teaches you takedown defense. If you've never done grappling, there is no way 3 dudes won't be able to take you down unless you are a heavyweight pro who can knock anyone out with one punch. And when they take you down, you are as good as dead.
I think a submarine is probably the one place you could fight multiple attackers and not get stomped, though having never done this, I can't say with 100% certainty.
Thanks for pointing this out- as someone who HAS actually had a fight against multiple opponents (once) you hit the nail on the head. I had a 4v2 fight once, and if it had been 4v1, I'd have lost it. People are truly delusional about how dangerous it is to fight multiple opponents by yourself. I would honestly say it's way riskier fighting multiple unarmed opponents than multiple people who all have a knife, assuming you have the same level of armament, because sooner or later, most of the dudes you're fighting are going to realize that if they all pick a limb and control you, they can just stomp your throat in, and they're likely to focus more on the use of a weapon than they are on how lethal completely controlling you can be.
I haven't been training for too long, but I think that the more you train, the more you realize that you are not, will not, and should not, be spending your time in the gym preparing for these fantasy street fightz that you made up in your mind. If you're so concerned about da streetz that everything you do in the gym has to prepare you for that, then I think the problem is where you're directing your mental energy and focus. No amount of martial skill can 'prepare' you for life if you don't give in to the humility that comes with consistent training and learning.
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Did you know Seki Toguchi in his book Okinawan Goju Ryu claimed he beat up 6 guys who walked into his dojo challenging him to fight? He said they were armed with clubs too. The reason this is possible is because most people a trained fighter goes up against in a street fight can't take more than 2 good good hits before going to the ground in the fetal position.
I have imagined this and saw it in old boxing.
So basically, you'd have them work towards chancery and even throwing punches while coming to grips when they can free an arm for a semi-effective blow, some sources, like Edmund Price, show the fighters in scenarios like one secures chancery and then starts pounding at the face, but then a counter where the guy in chancery grabs the leg and pushes against the chin or throat to toss the guy off of him, freeing him of the situation. You also had the cross buttocks throw from chancery too.
Finally, you'd have kicks to the shin,etc which would take place as well.
Though assuming London Prize Ring rules, you;'d not see a lot of ground fighting fo the reason that a round was considered over the moment one person was knocked down. (Though this was back when matches lasted for hours potentially)
Under the Broughton rules and before Boxing had any codified rule, you had plenty of examples of ground and pound, and while I hven't found much evidence of it, the closeness of British Boxing/Defence to Catch As Catch Can's origin place- being from the same country and all, I would not exclude the possibility that Catch was used in a boxing match at one point. Though boxing was called Defence of for a reason. Art of Defence, Science of Defence,etc, back in the day... it was because before Queensbury Ruls, it was made to as closely as they could conceive of doing so safely, they trained to defend themselves against ruffians as they walked about. You also have evidence of early boxing treatises, and not just vaguely mentioned by champions Mendoza or Belcher, but others as well, which suggests that boxing originated in English fencing with rapier, broadsword, sword and buckler,etc. This shows why certain strategies have maintained themselves to this day, including the cross counter, ducking and dodging,etc.
But yes, people should not fear grappling. What they fear is instead going to the ground, but if you're going to the ground, you need to get off the ground. Why not be comfortable with moving on the ground while on the ground with another who is attacking you so you can get off of it if you're in the scenario?
I'm not the best fighter myself.
I have 16 years HEMA experience, 7 years boxing on( though not professionally, mostly for entertainment and health plus I'm a huge fan of boxing history) and 0 conditioning. I know I would not last long because I tire out fast. However, from a standpoint of knowledge, I can speak confidently and I respect all people in their arts.
Hey there coach. I have a question regarding handling being utterly defeated. I have practiced judo for about 2 , my fitness is not among the best. I ended up sparring against an opponent that went way harder than anyone else at the judo gym. He completely humiliated me. I understand that I am not going very hard because of my weight and caution for injury. Am I out of touch of what judo is about? Have I cuddled myself? Thanks for all the advice over the years
simply cuz how much even boxers clench i'd say a real bar/street fight is on average 65% grappling and only 35% striking yes there are street fights that don't go to the ground and end standing but most end up either in the clench then on the ground or someone just falls(mainly an environment thing like the curb)
Thank you for that ♥( Ramsey Dewey) gave me! I am breaking a promise today about the USD-CShp,i talk one last time.Dear Ramsey,what i observed/learned from you is Valid,precious!Having said that there are Questions.HOW,WHY many dudes wanna kill me?whats going on? You are NOT guilty,normal people turn into Monsters on a daily bases,E.g. Rockconcert,1 drink to much.Conclusio:WE are stacked on each other,dont exercise,and the Energie stays in the system.NO need for areason to punch/strangle a human to death.SAD😭
I agree with your overall assessment, Ramsey, but in all objectivity, I've seen videos of boxers/kickboxers dispatching 2 or 3 assailants on the street, using their very quick and powerful strikes - not something you could do with jiu-jitsu. Obviously, the more assailants the lower those odds get. That being said, I agree that ignoring grappling altogether is a bad idea, if only to learn how to get back up.
Maaan I loved the boxing match argument. I would start with it and end the conversation
Way back when I was in bujinkan ninjutsu we used grappling to train against multiple opponents and I still think that's the best way to do it. Clinch up with the guy and keep hitting him and use him as a shield against the other guys. Is it difficult? Is fighting multiple people harder than 1?
That's one of the few things I liked about bujinkan, that practice was the closest we got to sparring but the principles helped when I started sparring with people that had an idea of how to fight and suggested 2v1s.
It's like the same argument against kicks in the streetz, and they always mention tight pants and having your kick caught. Nevermind the fact that we already have contingency plans for getting kicks caught, and tight pants don't mitigate low kicks at all.
I've seen more grabbing in Boxing than I've seen in MMA, at least in MMA takedowns and clinch strikes happen.
Zangeif is a streetfighter - He's a grappler.
“Any person who is an expert in physical art in which the hands and feet are used as deadly weapons, is required to register with the Department of Revenue and Taxation.”
In what country?
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Yeah all I'm going to say is that the krav maga super mega self defence instructor who came to our bjj academy started avoiding eye contact when it was time to roll and I was just a mid tier blue belt at the time.
But Coach Ramsey, Sean Strickland is a BJJ Black belt and he said the second he got that black belt he threw it away because he said “BJJ doesn’t work in a fight.”
Ramsey i recently got my arm broken in training, it was an accident, i would enjoy if you have any tips about recovery for fighters and athletes
There was a video of a guy in the street who was being attacked by 4 guys, and he kept backing off and knocking out the attackers one at a time. So maybe there's a small advantage in being a strong elite striker in a 1-v-2 or 1-v-3 situation compared to being only an elite grappler. That said, the one with the best chance of survival is the complete fighter with both striking and grappling. In that situation, the complete fighter should employ a quick knockout strategy vs taking down one of the opponents.
its funny, I saw the same exact video the other day and thought the same exact thing. Its full of "I see red " guys
It really depends on the circumstances like the environment your mental fitness your training their training. Their goal your goal. 🤷
I have been in many "street" fights since the age of 6, and maybe 1 out of 12 didn't end up in some type of grappling scenario. Maybe 2 of such fights that occurred younger in my age (7 and 12) I ended up getting jumped.
It’s against laws not to register if you’re trained as a martial artist. if you’re convicted of using martial arts to physically assault another person you are guilty of aggravated assault.
2:55 that looks fun as hell tho
Aside from talking oneself out of learning something useful, I just don't see how learning how to drop people on their butts can sound unfun to anyone.
There needs to be some Braveheart like scene where people go into battle for the streets!
That's the Andrew Tate argument I think it's been around forever but he made it mainstream
I guarantee every ancient battlefield with melee weapons also had a lot of grappling going on.
I miss the old style of boxing where the clinch was part of the fight and the ref would let them work, telling them to fight out of the clinch. Then if they were just resting the ref would break them apart. Now, the ref starts in on them as soon as they get the slightest bit tangled.
You were around in the 1920’s?
Catch Wrestling beats old school boxing.
I was ringside when Professor Otto Schoenfeld lost 3 falls to 2 to young upstart Toots Mondt in Dogtooth North Dakota.
People who talk about "on da streets" are always the people who have never been in a gymnin their life.
A fight "on da streets" is a failure of situational awareness.
I thought you were gonna say "if you get into a fight with a bunch of dudes, no matter what you do they're going to grapple you" because of course they would especially if you're an amazing striker.
Grappling is the most useful thing in a street fight wheather thats catch wrestling, folk style, Greco Roman, judo, bjj( newaza judo) or what thats why muay thai is a great stricking art because the clinch.
Honestly Judo is probably the best martial art if you are attacked by multiple people in the street. Your only realistic chance of winning against multiple opponents is to get away from them. Judo teaches you to throw or trip someone who us trying to hold you or take you to the ground so you can run away. And that's decisive because, if all you want to do is run away, someone has to hold you or take you to the ground before your mob of assailants can actually hit you with any force.
"on the streets, I will do this do that so you better pray figters!" Well fighters can do the same to you,now with more power,speed,accuracy,and even more stamina to keep going😂
The oldest marshall art . Grapling is must have . exllent video .
Now you've got me thinking: if your goal is to get more hugs in life, is boxing a decent hobby to take up? :)
Any kind of extreme is bad. Grappling is necessary to be able to survive in a real no rules fight but techniques that are viable outside are completely different from combat sports meta. That's the whole difference. One must simply be aware of that. Some MMA gyms even teach that because trainers are fully aware that 90% of people don't go there to eventually compete in the octagon.
I'm 54 years old, Karate Black belt, BJJ Brown belt, trained MMA for last 10 years and never got in a street fight ? Maybe I'm one of those guys that is affraid and don't know how to fight ;)
I wonder what Ramsey thoughts are on Jake Paul vs Mike Tyson
Ah yes, I heard there be a funeral held for the integrity of the sport of boxing on July 20th.
Thank you! This argument is my absolute pet peeve. There is no martial art that will make you into Bruce Lee if 3 dudes want to jump you in an alley. If you need to fight "multiple opponents" then I hope you are a well rounded fighter, and I hope you have friends, because you are probably fucked otherwise.
I would suggest high level wrestling is probably one of the best skill sets to have if you have 2 or 3 guys of lesser ability attacking you. You have a lot better chance of staying standing, and getting back up with those skills. I've seen a video of a highschool wrestler fighting off 3 other high schoolers, throwing them around as they try to swing and grab at him unsuccessfully, kept it moving, stayed on his feet. Regardless you're always going to be having an uphill battle against multiple people. Your skill has to outweigh theirs by a good amount for a chance. For some reason, what I assume are lower level boxers, think they're just going to put one after another's lights out. Surely it could happen, but this assumption nobody will take a punch or slip a punch is very wishful thinking. I feel like any amount of sparring(especially hard boxing sparring) would prevent people from getting this impression. And it's like the idea that someone grabbing ahold of them, never crossed their mind.
I watched the footage of you facing multiple opponents, Ramsey, and I have to say... If Captain Krav Maga were in your shoes, he would have groin kicked your opponents into oblivion.