Examining critiques of "unrealistic" movies and TV shows, and laying down three ground rules for showcasing when a lack of realism does, and doesn't, work. / sarahz
I think a piece of fiction need to respect is own rules and stay consistent with what it has stated. Like if I write a novel in which people can casually fly as long as I don't pull of something random at the climax like the villain getting defeated thanks to a limit in the duration in which someone can fly that I never mention before the story stays credible and enjoyable despite the unrealistic characteristics of it's universe.
That's also true!! I remember complaining about a plot hole in Doctor Who once, and I got a reply like "you can accept that time travel and aliens exist, but not plot holes?" YES! One of those things is part of the established universe of the show and is something you have to accept in order to enjoy it, and one of those things is the result of lazy writing. Completely different!
Totally agree!! Personally I think that things can be as crazy as the creator wants, and it'll be realistic as long as the rules within that world are explained and are consistent.
like in the book "the wall and the wing"? Excellent youth literature, there's plenty of unrealistic things, but they all slot nicely into that literary canon.
Every head-canon I develop that doesn't include everything leading up to the eclipse feels like I'm betraying his character and/or making a bastardized version of him. On one hand, it's great that I can watch a show and have such a perfect character, but on the other hand, I basically can't tamper with him without him losing what makes him himself.
@@spacelizbian3237 I wouldn't say that. Zuko is easily the most famous character in the whole franchise but characters like Iroh and Toph are also extremely well-liked
Thank you for the explanation! Yes, a story need not be "realistic" in terms of whether or not it adheres to our laws of physics. What makes for unsatisfying departures from realism is when the story is _psychologically_ unconvincing. It's OK if, in a story, one day a dragon shows up in the neighborhood. But what makes a story satisfying is that we can understand and empathize with how the characters react to such weirdness: does it ring true? As I see it, fiction resonates with us when it is a highly symbolic representation of truths about human psychology. 😊
"As I see it, fiction resonates with us when it is a highly symbolic representation of truths about human psychology." Damn, I couldn't have summed it up better myself! I think even Robert McKee would support this statement 100%.
Actually, I think it _does_ need to be realistic in terms of physics, at least to some degree. For example, there was this one D&D encounter I experienced in which the monster was so cold that simply being there within the same room inflicted cold damage. As I cast AoE fire spells to both damage the monster and warm up the room, the room only got colder and the monster increased in size. I later learned that the monster literally ate heat as its source of nourishment and that the room being cold was the result of that feeding process. I was making the monster stronger by casting fire at it. Unfortunately, as interesting as a monster like this is _in concept,_ if you're at all familiar with thermodynamics, you'll spot the problem with this right away. In fact, even if you're _not_ familiar with thermodynamics, you'll still have this unsettled feeling that something isn't quite right, that there's something fundamentally unfair about the way this encounter played out. Somehow, you know exactly what should have happened, and it isn't what happened. The room should not have gotten colder by casting heat into it. Physics matters because it's what underlies our expectations about how the world around us should behave. This applies to fictional worlds as well. It's about managing expectations. If a reader can no longer predict the result of common, normal, everyday actions within your story, then your story will break. Expectations can no longer be formed, the _violation_ of expectations will no longer mean anything, and the tension falls apart. Now, that's not to say that everything must be perfectly realistic and no fantastical elements are allowed. Of course not. But recognize that if you _do_ alter how physics works, especially if it's something as foundational as the second law of thermodynamics, people's physical intuitions will be violated. Additionally, even if your alteration _isn't_ that intuitively foundational, you'll still be introducing internal contradictions into your fictional world. Reality is more tightly interwoven than it seems. www.lesswrong.com/posts/LaM5aTcXvXzwQSC2Q/universal-fire Whether it's an alternate history, flying dragons, or the ability to cast fire from your hands, if you flesh out the implications far enough, you'll eventually find _something_ about your world that's been broken. That said, as long as you don't _lean on_ the thing that's broken, you'll be just fine.
@@ImperfectV01D I actually think that kind of magical monster makes sense, and would work in a story. No, it's not how thermodynamics works, but it's not a huge stretch for a magical creature. It's no different from a hydra growing two heads after you cut one off. Logically, severing body parts shouldn't make creatures stronger either...
Anyone who says that Avatar is their favorite show is instantly ok in my book, but the fact that you cite reasons why the show is so effective outside of referencing recurring jokes-turned-memes is really refreshing. I greatly enjoyed watching your thoughts!
You can really tell how passionate you are, it's really heartwarming to see considering the state of youtube as of now. Really sold me on the topic today, keep going!
god seeing the incredibles dad complain about how they "changed math" made me laugh so hard - my dad said the exact same thing helping my sister with algebra through high school, and *i* say the same thing when i look at my little brother's math homework. (i dont know if you know this, but apparently they just teach little kids absolute bullshit now in math class!) (i'm joking. that's a joke.)
My dad absolutely adores The Incredibles, and when he went to see the sequel, he lost it at that line. I feel like that was one of the things that were put in to make parents laugh, but I'm sure a lot of people who have parents who complain about how your classes "changed math" also laughed
I love seeing someone so passionate about avatar the last airbender! please please make a video about that. perhaps how zuko has the perfect redemption arc? or maybe how complex azula's character is? i dunno u really need it!
One could defend 13 Reasons Why by pointing out that big parts of the story are being told through the perspective of Hannah who is a very unreliable narrator (as we are being told repeatedly throughout the course of the season). I like to think that some of the things that seem unrealistic (like all of the students reading the poem and mocking it) didn't actually happen that way in reality but are rather how Hannah received it or decided to retell it. I'm not saying that's what the producers intended, but that's how I interpret these events of the show.
imaginareality God I wish that had been intended! Unreliable narration is such a fascinating style point which is really underutilised in media (and if it is explored, it is almost always a "hallucinating crazy"). That would be so interesting though
Supernatural is my favorite show, but I really appreciated how you talked about it and I totally agree with you. There's a lot of things about the show that need to be fixed, or at least acknowledged (read: bitter Sam girl.) When people aren't fans of things anymore, they can get insane. What I most appreciate about your channel is not only that I love and agree with all of your points, but the way that you talk about things. It isn't condescending or insulting when you are criticizing something, it is calm and collected and you have great things to say. Kudos to having a great channel xx
I agree. Her criticism is so calm and to the point. She hasn't spoken critically about any piece of media I love yet, lol, but if she did, I too could take it. Coming from her.
I’m with you, only at this point of class myself as a bitter everyone girl. Dean needs to stop drinking away all his emotions. Sam needs a look in, please- I was hoping the Sam as a Leader was really going to go somewhere, but... and Cas. Poor Cas. He’s been depressed since season 9. He thinks he’s not of any value unless he can be useful to the boys, the boys basically ignore him, validating that thought, and then he goes off and does something self sacrificing. And while he’s away, Dean is mopey as hell, and yet when Cas is back, Dean goes right back to mostly ignoring him. Ugh! At least I have fanfic.
"Maybe I just like Zuko..." I related hardcore to that. Zuko is hands down the best part of the show. He's just so hawbjahdhuja I love him. Ahhhhhhhh. *loses capacity for coherent thoughts*
This is one of the best explanations of willing suspension of disbelief I've seen. Also, god help me, I still watch Supernatural. Not while it airs, I just wait for it to hit Netflix. And like, you are soooo not wrong.
Water... Earth... Fire... Air. Long ago, the four nations lived together in harmony. Then everything changed when the Fire Nation attacked. Only the Avatar, master of all four elements, could stop them. But when the world needed him most, he vanished. A hundred years passed and my brother and I discovered the new Avatar, an airbender named Aang. And although his airbending skills are great, he has a lot to learn before he's ready to save anyone. But I believe Aang can save the world.
Very good points raised Sarah. I'd like to add consistency as another point. If you set up an unreal universe you need to make sure it has internal consistency. That's why the hyperspace attack in Star Wars is so silly. If it was possible to destroy massive ships with a jump to hyperspace then why did anyone build the deathstar? Inconsistency ruins a whole plotline because the 'believability' of the unreality is broken.
You're calling the hyperspace scene 'unrealistic' because it didn't happen already? Despite the fact that you saw it happen in that exact scene? I'm honestly confused. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
Realism in emotion, interiority and character relationships makes for a relatable story that's more likely to impact the viewer. Realism in terms of physics and other such Real-world limitations is a conscious textural choice and in my opinion, overrated. Now if you'll excuse me I have to go do thumbnails for my comic about an alien cosplaying anime Red Riding Hood fighting robot dinosaurs with a two-bladed battle scythe that is also a gun to avoid grappling with her trauma-related problems with intimacy in her growing romantic attraction to her scientist gal pal.
So would I. I have watched it a number of times and I have never considered it a deconstruction of the chosen one trope, merely the chosen one trope done well.
As someone who adores cartoons and loves looking at and creating various characters, I feel that a lot of the time making a character less "realistic" can make them far more "human". When you have a bunch of outlandish, colorful and exaggerated characters, their emotions and personalities are much stronger and more apparent, allowing for more empathy from the audeince towards the characters, but you can only really have these types of characters in a story that knows when to take itself seriously and when not to. Avatar the Last Airbender is a great example for this type of storytelling. In relaxed, comedic situations the show knows not to take itself too seriously and the characters being over the top and goofy still feels right, but in high-stakes moments when the show DOES take itself seriously, it can deliver a very sincere and powerful message to the audience. Of course, this type of storytelling does not work for all types of stories, but I still feel that it deserves more attention.
Exactly. It only has to be realistic in the characters feelings and way to act. IF they are completely acting like a different person and break their own basis... WHAT'S THE POINT? Willingfull suspension of disbelief is a thing if the character BELIEVE and would be believable in this nonsense.
This is a terrific balance between the relatively standard discussion found on RUclips and a deeper criticism that isn't found as much here (at least by me). Combined with the passion found here...yeah, this is a new favorite channel.
Love these videos, your arguments are so well put together and articulated. The Supernatural "Satan's twice as evil cousin Steve" had me in tears, too true. Happy end of exams! I still have another week so discovering these videos has been a good way to procrastinate essay writing for me haha. Hope to see more from you soon!
Great video! It got me thinking about the world's end, which is a film about alien robots but also has a really intense emotional story about trying to recapture youth and mental illness. Also Kubo and the two strings, a stop motion fantasy romp which always makes me cry because of the way it deals with loss and grief. Both of these have an emotional realness which is supported and enhanced by the unreal elements rather than undermined by them.
On the specific example of TIE fighters, the reason everything makes noise in space in Star Wars is that the movie wants to depict space combat as an action packed swashbuckling adventure like everything else in the movie. The roaring noise TIE fighters make also reinforce the idea that the Empire (and First Order) use terror as a weapon, hearing them fly overhead or past your cockpit in the dozens probably has a way of getting to people. We even see Kylo Ren buzz the bridge of a Resistance cruiser and hear the effect a close flyby has.
My very favourite, the closest to my heart surreal movie is definitely Charlie Kaufman's Synecdoche, New York. Beautifully underlines all the themes and elevates the story. But I'd also like to say that your love towards art and movies is overflowing out of your eyes, gestures, humours. Great to see a throwback to the past of your career!
This is why batman is actually thew least realistic superhero. Superman as a character makes cohesive sense within the realm of his powerset. Meanwhile there are probably dozens of people today who have been literally in batmans shoes (super rich, parents murdered) and none of them have ever become batman because batmans conclusions from his powerset (wealth) and circumstance do not lead to the conclusion he comes to. His whole method of solving crime is getting himself and a handful of children to assault criminals they actively try to find on a case by case basis. If he actually wanted to solve crime he could just invest resources in after school programs or soup kitchens or just employ half of gotham as he seemingly has the resources to do.
Clearly not enough to eliminate poverty, and he still has an abundance of resources and time to dress up as a bat. He's a fundamentally silly character
Rosalind Chapman Thing is tho what is really unrealistic isn’t Batman but rather Gotham, probably the worst place in all of fiction. Bruce has built projects, invested and even said himself that in the long term Bruce Wayne can do more for Gotham than Batman(which is inherently a short term solution). Problem is Gotham has an incompetent police force which he literally has to replace, that is why Batman must exist. Gotham would have already been overun and all his investments would be worth nothing otherwise. Every piece of the city is a crime haven, I don’t know why it even has a population.
Gotham is really unrealistic IMO, because it NEVER gets better ever, despite the bat-family. I'd like to read a story about Batman finally succeeding in making Gotham a better place and what happens after that.
I think that the Umbrella Academy was an amazing example of doing surrealism right, they managed to make an unrealistic situation feel very grounded with relatable and heartfelt characters and the relationships between them (minus Luther and Allison) were well thought out and developed
There's room for both fantasy and movies grounded in reality. You can have Hey Arnold! and you can have Avatar the Last Airbender. You can also have Game of Thrones and Marriage Story. I think criticisms of something being unrealistic only apply if the characters are acting out of character or a movie/tv show that is grounded in reality does something unrealistic.
Does anyone else REALLY want a list of recommended shows from her? Cus my summer break just started and i have almost the exact same taste in shows as her 😁
Yeah, I'm surprise at how many people can say that The Simpsons has been on way too long, but still love Supernatural. Supernatural is the CW's version of Simpsons. It's been on way too long and are just running in circles now. Great video.
It technically did. The original author of the show only wrote those first five seasons. That was his legacy and then he was done. But then the channel approved more seasons because obv people liked it so much, so they hired a new writer from season 6 on. (Well technically from those last 5 minutes of the last episode of season 5. Yea. Pretend Sam was never standing there....) Anywho, you're 100% right for that mindset!
Community and A:TLA are my two all time favorite shows and I think they both perfectly balance unrealism and heart tugging scenes that make you fall in love with the characters everyone you watch the series. The fact that I got a rush of goosebumps each event in Zukos journey you mentioned is telling of how strong the balance is :)
❤❤❤❤ This reminds me of something I was taught in a playwright class: "It is always better to have a probable impossibility than an impossible probability." Which ultimately is what this video is all about. Loved it.
Just my input: I have always tried to expect internal consistency within a story and its settings. I do not mind, if it is unrealistic compared to our world. But if they decide to expound upon some internal logic of their world, then I like it, when the story does not break its own logic. I would consider this to be conventionally good writing.
Love the video! I think that there was one thing that you missed though: Worldbuilding. Most movies today have things in them that couldn´t happen in real lie (superheroes, sci-fi elements, comedies where no one acts like IRL etc) and we accept it for the reasons you list, but also because it is a part of that world. Take the newer Star Wars for example. In the earlier movies it´s well established that even if you are some kind of chosen one you will need a lot of practice, guidance and time to be good. Then we see Rey, and she does things that even the earlier seen jedis can´t do without any kind of practice whatsoever. Wha makes this bad isn´t the fact that it couldn´t happen in our world, but that it shouldn´t be able to happen in THEIRS. George Lucas has built a world where there are certain rules, and we accept them because thats how movies work. It´s when those rules are broken, however, we see it as unrealistic and bad.
Supernatural seasons 1-5 was incredible, because of the reasons you said, plus more. However, as you explained, dragging out the show caused the same repetitive pattern and inconsistencies as more and more characters that we'd never heard of before now were introduced. However I heard that season 13 is really good??
(Long comment ahead. Sry...) Exactly. Finally someone puts what I've been thinking about, into words. I KNEW I WASN'T THE ONLY ONE. 💙Zuko💜 And Supernatural. Omfg it's so true. I got so tired of it. Like even the main-ish characters like Castiel RANDOMLY (conveniently) goes missing when he is most needed. The first 5 seasons were amazing but everything after the is just "monster of the week/month/season" there is no arc anywhere. What does Dean killing death have to do with Billy have to do with Cas killing Billy have to do with the British chapter of the--- I give up. Forget it. Anyway, this was another awesome video. Also, I'm interested in knowing what you're thoughts are on the anime Yuri On Ice.(it's totally ok if you don't watch anime, obviously. But if you do like anime, maybe do a review on YURI ON ICE) PS: Your hair looks on point. PPS: where did you buy that pendant?
I think a good example of somewhat unrealistic elements working in a more down to earth show is in Arrow Season 5. They bring back the character of Laurel through an alternate universe and while that may feel like a goofy detail for a show mainly based around a Robin Hood-like vigilante simply fighting crime, it works well for the plot with us having already seen multiversal and meta human elements introduced, and it helps to show a story of the team having the chance to reconnect with her after what happened to her main universe counterpart and dealing with her as a new threat working alongside the main villain.
one thing u didnt mention but i thought would be relevant is arrested development, essentially the father of all modern surrealist comedy. its an excellent deconstruction of the dynasty type family in a modern day and age with characters who act as exaggerated stereotypes of different types of selfish behaviour. The surrealism of the show borders on down right absurdism as these unreal characters are flung into random yet extremely ironic situations, take for example my fAVOURITE moment in the entire series: Buster, the evil hag matriarch (Lucille)'s son wants to join the army to spite her and get her to pay more attention to him, so she throws a going away party to spite him. Due to both characters inhability to say how they feel, buster flees the army at the last second after he signs up and tries to flee into the ocean, as one last act of defiance against his mother who always told him a shark would come bite his hand off if he swam in the ocean. Not heeding Lucille's warning he goes into the ocean anyway, only to be warned by a life guard to "watch out for the loose seal!" that is swimming with him in the water, he misunderstands the warning, and claims that he is free of his mother, the seal then proceeds to attack him and bite his left hand off, thus fulfilling his mother's prophecy
I think Fargo season 2 is a good example of having an unrealistic element that works; there's a very unrealistic twist in the ninth episode that works well because it ties in to the themes of the season and with many of the characters' arcs
To be fair, the internet collectively said "you can't make weapons out of light, here's how it actually works" when George made that statement that lightsabers are actually made of light.
Good explanation for what happened to Supernatural...I personally love the show to a point that I kept watching it even after I stopped being happy with the writing decisions, especially because every once in a while you still get fun characters or weird one off stories. But I've finally reached my limit even with that and I find that I just don't care anymore. Some people get confused when they see how much of a fan I am but how much I tear apart the newer episodes, and it's for the reasons here. I just wish that it would reach some sort of ending soon. The actors are so tired, I can see it in their faces, and I only want the best for them
You've mentioned several modern story-based cartoons in your videos (adventure time, Avatar, Steven Universe ect) and I just wanted to know your thoughts on Over The Garden Wall if you've seen it. If not, I highly highly recommend it
Well said!:) I think the level of realism also needs to be standard throughout the story. So better to choose which way to go and stick to it. I was recently slightly disappointed in a psychologically motivated "thriller", that in the end became more like some James Bond action movie. It didn't spoil the fun, but would have been better if you don't have to think "wow, how is this book nerd with unhealthy life habits even physically capable to perform that?"
Really interesting video, and I completely agree with the points that you've made! I always love things that are pretty fantastical, but it is definitely incredibly important to have that level of realism there with the characters. The circumstances of the world can be as nuts as the creator wants, but the characters are what has to help bring it down, and guide us through that world and make us really care about what's going on because of how they are tied to this weirdness. Like superhero movies tend to be stronger when the hero has something real and personal at stake that the audience can understand rather than just, "there's a bad guy and the noble thing to do is stop them in an over the top fight sequence". Love your points on Avatar, totally agree that that show aces it, as well as Brooklyn Nine-Nine. I also totally agree with the Supernatural comments. Used to love that show but the monsters of the week and plot seem more important than genuine development and fresh interactions with the characters now, and the plot itself... is not even good. A show that excels strongly at what you're saying in this video is Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency. All the circumstances in that show are absolutely weird and crazy, but all of the characters are so wonderfully fleshed out and distinctive, all with their own quirks and relatable features, and your care for them and their sweet relationships is what really pulls you into the show and the craziness. They are all undoubtedly real and human in a world that is absolutely nuts, and it is a very important thing to have. Awesome job with this, and I look forward to more video essays from you! (Also, amusingly, my name's Sarah Z. too, and I seem to share a lot of your opinions lol)
i don't know what it is but there's something to be said about Lost and how much mysterious stuff was tolerable up to the spontaneous polar bear that not only crossed the line but rendered the line pointless
Positively brilliant video! This is a rather fundamental question that I've never been able to come to much of a conclusion about, but this does a pretty good job of it. I'm not sure it's the definitive answer, but it's quite a big part. There's also some element of it having to be "logical" even if the mechanics of the established universe are completely incompatible with our own as we understand it. There are examples of events in fiction that ruin the suspension of disbelief regardless of whether they serve the plot and themes.
i know this show came out over 10 years ago, but as a person who is in the middle of watching it- can you warn us before discussing ATLA spoilers? xD i was hit with hardcore (i assume) series finale spoilers out of the blue and as far as i can tell there was no mention of such in the title or in the video.
does a series have to be realistic? no. In fact, for me, the less realistic it is, the better it gets. but it's gotta be BELIEVABLE. very different, but important
2:00 uhm, actually you *can* make weapons out of light. You can use a laser to cut iron or as a scalpel and a laser is "simply" (mostly) monochromatic, directed, coherent light 😘
'Realism' is used conversationally in a shorthand; it usually stands for either tonal consistency, verisimilitude, character consistency, a mix of all three, or the deliberate exclusion of some of these - depending on what the person speaking means to convey. Verisimilitude is what nearly everyone means when they mean realistic; it's not about how 'real' it is but how 'like real' it is. A modern show set in 1960 is unrealistic since it's not 1960, just like it's not 2080. The key is building a world that would feel real IF it was 1960, 2080, where it was the apocalypse or four elemental nations and so on. Where we know how the world works, its similarities to the real world are known and its significant variances either laid out or irrelevant for the time, we can follow the story without needing to be lead, and even get the satisfaction of realising what is about to happen before it actually does. Tonal consistency is what people complain about the most, although they focus on trappings of verisimilitude much more so. A show's tone is vital to how we invest in it - we even categorise shows by genre - horror, comedy, thriller - because the tone of the experience we want is that important to us. Recent Star Wars films show what tonal inconsistency does. For all that angry fans focused on the trappings of the show, the core of complaints about Episode 8 were that it didn't 'feel like' Star Wars - a complaint of tonal inconsistency between entries. Meanwhile others specifically praise it for feeling different, because they had no investment in the tone. Episode 9 is tonally inconsistent even with itself - tonal incoherence - and is disliked by nearly everyone even if they again fixate on the trappings. Tonal consistency is vital for us to 'play along' with the film; when you make predictions of what will happen next they are somewhat influenced by real world examples, but much more focused on narrative and genre conventions, which are the strong tools of setting tone. A tonally inconsistent show at best deprives us of the fun of playing along, and at worst makes it impossible to even follow the narrative. Character consistency is about building up effective characters that feel close enough to real for our minds to build a picture of them. We can play along with a character's foolish or ridiculous or self-destructive actions when they feel like natural outcomes for the character. Good villain characters are fun specifically because while their actions are unpredictable enough to surprise us, they are consistent enough that we know when and how to expect surprise. People often call character choices 'unrealistic', which for all it tells you that most people don't really use critical language well, makes it very clear that when a character acts inconsistent with our picture of them, we may reject the actual act they have done in the fictional universe because of the theoretical picture we have of them. Character inconsistency makes it impossible to empathise with or even care about the characters, which can be fatal to storytelling.
Can we talk about the subversion of the unrealistic devices to create exactly " boring stories" about really relatable, day-to-day human experiences just for showcasing fascination with the anodyne? And I don't mean documentaries or real stories that are shown on TV, but media that is explicitly made with the purpose of portraying ordinary lifestyles as fascinating, to bring out the fascination in it. Think Virginia Woolf works or the arthouse film "Jeanne Dileman". I really think those should be discussed too.
I'm surprised you didn't mention Danagnronpa. The characters in those games, at least as far as their talent goes, are often so over-the-top and impossible that it practically flies in the face of the grounded mystery being presented, and yet what draws us to them is their very human conflicts and internal struggles.
I'm not really sure this is about realism so much as it is about people wanting their entertainment to be logically consistent. People want solid characters and worlds that feel lived-in. A well-written scenario is an extension of that. Even if it's super outlandish, like in the Tarantino example, the characters all behave in the manner you expect them to given the situations they're in. "Realism" as it's commonly referred to is just people not having the right words to explain that they want creators to respect their worlds, their characters, and their stories.
Have you ever watched any of Team Starkid's musicals? Their combination of super unrealism and incredibly relatable and human characters is something I believe you would enjoy.
Sarah Z Awesome!! They're so great and funny while still maintaining developed plots and characters, I did think you'd like them x Also omg thank you for replying, you are one of my favourite RUclipsrs
The other Indiana Jones films had mystical elements in them before (i.e The Holy Grail and the Arc of the Covenant). Never got why aliens was SUCH a hated change but IDK, fine. 🤷♀️
I love your candid reviews. they're interesting and you remain passionate all the way through. I can tell it's not just a show or book or movie for you, it's about how the media represents topics and I love it. I started by watching your video about queerbaiting and haven't stopped. I've already subscribed and can't wait to watch more of your stuff. Keep it up! :-)
How does "unrealism" square with "magical realism"? The only example of "magical realism" I know of is Like Water for Chocolate. For those who don't know it, a warning before you do: It's STEAMY!
Bone Gap is a good YA stab at Magical Realism! I didn't like the writing style personally (I've just learned that I am not one for the genre) but you might like it!
Before watching the video I just want to say; no... entertainment is supposed to be an escape from reality. Why would I want the laws of real life hold down a great story?
I love Kingsman so much, Kingsman 2 is underrated if you look at each film as a response to each Bond. The first Kingsman is a reference to Sean Connery and the eccentric villains of the films while Golden Circle is a reference to Roger Moore’s over the top plots and style
i agree with all of your statements, but the problem i have is that a lot of people confuse characters reacting realistically to their circumstances as them being weak or poorly written. the example i always use is Sayaka Miki from Puella Magi Madoka Magica; without giving spoilers, Sayaka reacts absolutely like how a 14 year old girl like her would to being introduced to the world of magical girls and everything that entails in the pmmm universe, but a lot of the fandom seems to hate her for the way she acted. maybe i'm biased bc she's my favorite, but it's immensely frustrating to see characters being written as grounded or "realistic," only for them to be hated for that realism, y'know?
I can agree with you on the whole unrealism thing in fiction. So long as they have ground rules or logic (not necessarily based off science, just some sort of unsaid rules/laws that the universe the piece of fiction creates follows), consistency and relatable characters they don't need to be a copy of real life. If they were, they'd never have an end, be incredibly biased and be at least 20% less entertaining. More like 50%... but you know.
I still freaking love Supernatural, but you do have good points :D. It's different if you have a personal connection with a show beyond the characters and storylines though, so it doesn't really count. Though my favourite season is actually 11 and that was before I had this personal connection.
Personally I wouldn't consider AtLA unrealistic. For me the existence of fantasy elements isn't what makes something unrealistic. It's the lack of thought that goes into them. Ie. I'd consider AtLA realistic because they thought through the implications of the fantasy elements are thought through.
I think the best way to put it would be all entertainment doesn't need to be "realistic" all the time, and sometimes realism can be very entertaining (emphasis on sometimes).
I find it can be useful to use the word believable rather than realistic. Another point is what is believable/realistic will depend somewhat on the viewer. History nerds will be heavily annoyed by a lot of scenes in Brave Hart in ways which the average person wont for example.
Can these critiques apply to a story of a video game as well? I would say yes, because there are some stories that are really good. Just make sure it matches and awesome gameplay and you have one solid game.
I think a piece of fiction need to respect is own rules and stay consistent with what it has stated.
Like if I write a novel in which people can casually fly as long as I don't pull of something random at the climax like the villain getting defeated thanks to a limit in the duration in which someone can fly that I never mention before the story stays credible and enjoyable despite the unrealistic characteristics of it's universe.
That's also true!! I remember complaining about a plot hole in Doctor Who once, and I got a reply like "you can accept that time travel and aliens exist, but not plot holes?" YES! One of those things is part of the established universe of the show and is something you have to accept in order to enjoy it, and one of those things is the result of lazy writing. Completely different!
Totally agree!! Personally I think that things can be as crazy as the creator wants, and it'll be realistic as long as the rules within that world are explained and are consistent.
reason why The Vampire Diaries is trash. They basically broke all the freaking rules of their OWN MAKING.
The word verisimilitude comes to mind.
like in the book "the wall and the wing"? Excellent youth literature, there's plenty of unrealistic things, but they all slot nicely into that literary canon.
Zuko's character development is almost unparalleled. There is so much growth in his character, it brings tears to my eyes.
also he's hot
@@tatianatub
Literally
Every head-canon I develop that doesn't include everything leading up to the eclipse feels like I'm betraying his character and/or making a bastardized version of him. On one hand, it's great that I can watch a show and have such a perfect character, but on the other hand, I basically can't tamper with him without him losing what makes him himself.
Zuko's a great character I just wish the fandom would remember that other characters still exist
@@spacelizbian3237 I wouldn't say that. Zuko is easily the most famous character in the whole franchise but characters like Iroh and Toph are also extremely well-liked
Thank you for the explanation! Yes, a story need not be "realistic" in terms of whether or not it adheres to our laws of physics. What makes for unsatisfying departures from realism is when the story is _psychologically_ unconvincing. It's OK if, in a story, one day a dragon shows up in the neighborhood. But what makes a story satisfying is that we can understand and empathize with how the characters react to such weirdness: does it ring true? As I see it, fiction resonates with us when it is a highly symbolic representation of truths about human psychology. 😊
"As I see it, fiction resonates with us when it is a highly symbolic representation of truths about human psychology."
Damn, I couldn't have summed it up better myself! I think even Robert McKee would support this statement 100%.
VIMaggotVIBrainzVI Great comment 👍
Actually, I think it _does_ need to be realistic in terms of physics, at least to some degree.
For example, there was this one D&D encounter I experienced in which the monster was so cold that simply being there within the same room inflicted cold damage. As I cast AoE fire spells to both damage the monster and warm up the room, the room only got colder and the monster increased in size. I later learned that the monster literally ate heat as its source of nourishment and that the room being cold was the result of that feeding process. I was making the monster stronger by casting fire at it.
Unfortunately, as interesting as a monster like this is _in concept,_ if you're at all familiar with thermodynamics, you'll spot the problem with this right away. In fact, even if you're _not_ familiar with thermodynamics, you'll still have this unsettled feeling that something isn't quite right, that there's something fundamentally unfair about the way this encounter played out. Somehow, you know exactly what should have happened, and it isn't what happened. The room should not have gotten colder by casting heat into it.
Physics matters because it's what underlies our expectations about how the world around us should behave. This applies to fictional worlds as well. It's about managing expectations. If a reader can no longer predict the result of common, normal, everyday actions within your story, then your story will break. Expectations can no longer be formed, the _violation_ of expectations will no longer mean anything, and the tension falls apart. Now, that's not to say that everything must be perfectly realistic and no fantastical elements are allowed. Of course not. But recognize that if you _do_ alter how physics works, especially if it's something as foundational as the second law of thermodynamics, people's physical intuitions will be violated.
Additionally, even if your alteration _isn't_ that intuitively foundational, you'll still be introducing internal contradictions into your fictional world. Reality is more tightly interwoven than it seems. www.lesswrong.com/posts/LaM5aTcXvXzwQSC2Q/universal-fire Whether it's an alternate history, flying dragons, or the ability to cast fire from your hands, if you flesh out the implications far enough, you'll eventually find _something_ about your world that's been broken. That said, as long as you don't _lean on_ the thing that's broken, you'll be just fine.
@@ImperfectV01D I actually think that kind of magical monster makes sense, and would work in a story. No, it's not how thermodynamics works, but it's not a huge stretch for a magical creature. It's no different from a hydra growing two heads after you cut one off. Logically, severing body parts shouldn't make creatures stronger either...
Avatar the last air bender is also my fav show of all time! Good.
Y'all!!!!! It's Big Joel himself!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just watched the series on netflix and it's so much better then I expected. I am impressed.
Oh goodness not that show.
Is there someone who watched the show and doesn't agree?
@@EuropeanQoheleth ?
Anyone who says that Avatar is their favorite show is instantly ok in my book, but the fact that you cite reasons why the show is so effective outside of referencing recurring jokes-turned-memes is really refreshing. I greatly enjoyed watching your thoughts!
You can really tell how passionate you are, it's really heartwarming to see considering the state of youtube as of now. Really sold me on the topic today, keep going!
Ok but for real this is my new favourite channel
Same here!!
god seeing the incredibles dad complain about how they "changed math" made me laugh so hard - my dad said the exact same thing helping my sister with algebra through high school, and *i* say the same thing when i look at my little brother's math homework. (i dont know if you know this, but apparently they just teach little kids absolute bullshit now in math class!) (i'm joking. that's a joke.)
bro math is so old. these days it's all about math 2, baby!
@@starduststriker8792 yeah same, i hate maths 2
My dad absolutely adores The Incredibles, and when he went to see the sequel, he lost it at that line. I feel like that was one of the things that were put in to make parents laugh, but I'm sure a lot of people who have parents who complain about how your classes "changed math" also laughed
I'm a simple girl. I see Brooklyn Nine Nine, I click.
YEEEEEEAAAAAAHHHH!!!!! NINE NINERS UNITE!!!!!!!
Exactly lmao
Nine nine
NOINE NOINE!!!!!!!
NINE NINE
I love seeing someone so passionate about avatar the last airbender! please please make a video about that. perhaps how zuko has the perfect redemption arc? or maybe how complex azula's character is? i dunno u really need it!
I would love to do a video on redemption arcs! Especially with all the talk about Kylo Ren going around...
One could defend 13 Reasons Why by pointing out that big parts of the story are being told through the perspective of Hannah who is a very unreliable narrator (as we are being told repeatedly throughout the course of the season). I like to think that some of the things that seem unrealistic (like all of the students reading the poem and mocking it) didn't actually happen that way in reality but are rather how Hannah received it or decided to retell it.
I'm not saying that's what the producers intended, but that's how I interpret these events of the show.
imaginareality God I wish that had been intended! Unreliable narration is such a fascinating style point which is really underutilised in media (and if it is explored, it is almost always a "hallucinating crazy"). That would be so interesting though
Lilmissgamer :/ you mean “The Tell-Tale Heart” right?
Brooklyn Nine Nine is really underrated and doesn't get talked about enough
I love it too but it’s hardly underrated. It’s sill not in the league of an office or inbetweeners
Noice toight
Thats the name of Amy's sex tape.
Supernatural is my favorite show, but I really appreciated how you talked about it and I totally agree with you. There's a lot of things about the show that need to be fixed, or at least acknowledged (read: bitter Sam girl.) When people aren't fans of things anymore, they can get insane. What I most appreciate about your channel is not only that I love and agree with all of your points, but the way that you talk about things. It isn't condescending or insulting when you are criticizing something, it is calm and collected and you have great things to say. Kudos to having a great channel xx
I agree. Her criticism is so calm and to the point. She hasn't spoken critically about any piece of media I love yet, lol, but if she did, I too could take it. Coming from her.
I’m with you, only at this point of class myself as a bitter everyone girl.
Dean needs to stop drinking away all his emotions. Sam needs a look in, please- I was hoping the Sam as a Leader was really going to go somewhere, but... and Cas. Poor Cas. He’s been depressed since season 9. He thinks he’s not of any value unless he can be useful to the boys, the boys basically ignore him, validating that thought, and then he goes off and does something self sacrificing. And while he’s away, Dean is mopey as hell, and yet when Cas is back, Dean goes right back to mostly ignoring him.
Ugh! At least I have fanfic.
"Maybe I just like Zuko..."
I related hardcore to that. Zuko is hands down the best part of the show. He's just so hawbjahdhuja I love him. Ahhhhhhhh. *loses capacity for coherent thoughts*
This is one of the best explanations of willing suspension of disbelief I've seen.
Also, god help me, I still watch Supernatural. Not while it airs, I just wait for it to hit Netflix. And like, you are soooo not wrong.
Water... Earth... Fire... Air. Long ago, the four nations lived together in harmony. Then everything changed when the Fire Nation attacked. Only the Avatar, master of all four elements, could stop them. But when the world needed him most, he vanished. A hundred years passed and my brother and I discovered the new Avatar, an airbender named Aang. And although his airbending skills are great, he has a lot to learn before he's ready to save anyone. But I believe Aang can save the world.
I imagined the background music when reading this.
doodoodoodoo DAH DUH DUH DUN DAH DAH DAAAAAAAAH
previously on Avatar...
This made me want to go back to watch the show again.
You're such a good speaker! Your delivery is flawless and passionate.
Very good points raised Sarah. I'd like to add consistency as another point. If you set up an unreal universe you need to make sure it has internal consistency. That's why the hyperspace attack in Star Wars is so silly. If it was possible to destroy massive ships with a jump to hyperspace then why did anyone build the deathstar? Inconsistency ruins a whole plotline because the 'believability' of the unreality is broken.
You're calling the hyperspace scene 'unrealistic' because it didn't happen already? Despite the fact that you saw it happen in that exact scene?
I'm honestly confused. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
Realism in emotion, interiority and character relationships makes for a relatable story that's more likely to impact the viewer.
Realism in terms of physics and other such Real-world limitations is a conscious textural choice and in my opinion, overrated. Now if you'll excuse me I have to go do thumbnails for my comic about an alien cosplaying anime Red Riding Hood fighting robot dinosaurs with a two-bladed battle scythe that is also a gun to avoid grappling with her trauma-related problems with intimacy in her growing romantic attraction to her scientist gal pal.
NINE NINE
NINE NINE
I'd like to hear your views on why Avatar the Last Airbender deconstructs the chosen one trope .😊 Really enjoy that show...
So would I. I have watched it a number of times and I have never considered it a deconstruction of the chosen one trope, merely the chosen one trope done well.
As someone who adores cartoons and loves looking at and creating various characters, I feel that a lot of the time making a character less "realistic" can make them far more "human". When you have a bunch of outlandish, colorful and exaggerated characters, their emotions and personalities are much stronger and more apparent, allowing for more empathy from the audeince towards the characters, but you can only really have these types of characters in a story that knows when to take itself seriously and when not to. Avatar the Last Airbender is a great example for this type of storytelling. In relaxed, comedic situations the show knows not to take itself too seriously and the characters being over the top and goofy still feels right, but in high-stakes moments when the show DOES take itself seriously, it can deliver a very sincere and powerful message to the audience. Of course, this type of storytelling does not work for all types of stories, but I still feel that it deserves more attention.
Exactly. It only has to be realistic in the characters feelings and way to act. IF they are completely acting like a different person and break their own basis... WHAT'S THE POINT? Willingfull suspension of disbelief is a thing if the character BELIEVE and would be believable in this nonsense.
This is a terrific balance between the relatively standard discussion found on RUclips and a deeper criticism that isn't found as much here (at least by me). Combined with the passion found here...yeah, this is a new favorite channel.
ATLA being your all-time favorite show makes you my favorite person
Love these videos, your arguments are so well put together and articulated. The Supernatural "Satan's twice as evil cousin Steve" had me in tears, too true. Happy end of exams! I still have another week so discovering these videos has been a good way to procrastinate essay writing for me haha. Hope to see more from you soon!
Great video! It got me thinking about the world's end, which is a film about alien robots but also has a really intense emotional story about trying to recapture youth and mental illness. Also Kubo and the two strings, a stop motion fantasy romp which always makes me cry because of the way it deals with loss and grief. Both of these have an emotional realness which is supported and enhanced by the unreal elements rather than undermined by them.
On the specific example of TIE fighters, the reason everything makes noise in space in Star Wars is that the movie wants to depict space combat as an action packed swashbuckling adventure like everything else in the movie. The roaring noise TIE fighters make also reinforce the idea that the Empire (and First Order) use terror as a weapon, hearing them fly overhead or past your cockpit in the dozens probably has a way of getting to people. We even see Kylo Ren buzz the bridge of a Resistance cruiser and hear the effect a close flyby has.
I love how you constantly dig on 13rw and Peathers. They deserve to be dug on.
My very favourite, the closest to my heart surreal movie is definitely Charlie Kaufman's Synecdoche, New York. Beautifully underlines all the themes and elevates the story. But I'd also like to say that your love towards art and movies is overflowing out of your eyes, gestures, humours. Great to see a throwback to the past of your career!
This is why batman is actually thew least realistic superhero. Superman as a character makes cohesive sense within the realm of his powerset. Meanwhile there are probably dozens of people today who have been literally in batmans shoes (super rich, parents murdered) and none of them have ever become batman because batmans conclusions from his powerset (wealth) and circumstance do not lead to the conclusion he comes to. His whole method of solving crime is getting himself and a handful of children to assault criminals they actively try to find on a case by case basis. If he actually wanted to solve crime he could just invest resources in after school programs or soup kitchens or just employ half of gotham as he seemingly has the resources to do.
Rosalind Chapman he does do that! glitterpancake.tumblr.com/post/110382878890/bruce-wayne-outside-of-batman is a good Tumblr post that explains it
Clearly not enough to eliminate poverty, and he still has an abundance of resources and time to dress up as a bat. He's a fundamentally silly character
Rosalind Chapman Thing is tho what is really unrealistic isn’t Batman but rather Gotham, probably the worst place in all of fiction. Bruce has built projects, invested and even said himself that in the long term Bruce Wayne can do more for Gotham than Batman(which is inherently a short term solution). Problem is Gotham has an incompetent police force which he literally has to replace, that is why Batman must exist. Gotham would have already been overun and all his investments would be worth nothing otherwise. Every piece of the city is a crime haven, I don’t know why it even has a population.
I'm actually surprised no one has become Batman in real life. Real life is the weird one in my point of view.
Gotham is really unrealistic IMO, because it NEVER gets better ever, despite the bat-family. I'd like to read a story about Batman finally succeeding in making Gotham a better place and what happens after that.
I think that the Umbrella Academy was an amazing example of doing surrealism right, they managed to make an unrealistic situation feel very grounded with relatable and heartfelt characters and the relationships between them (minus Luther and Allison) were well thought out and developed
we all love zuko
join the "i stan zuko"-club
I love your channel so much, and I totally agree with what you said. Keep up the great work!
Jack Daws +
There's room for both fantasy and movies grounded in reality. You can have Hey Arnold! and you can have Avatar the Last Airbender. You can also have Game of Thrones and Marriage Story. I think criticisms of something being unrealistic only apply if the characters are acting out of character or a movie/tv show that is grounded in reality does something unrealistic.
Does anyone else REALLY want a list of recommended shows from her?
Cus my summer break just started and i have almost the exact same taste in shows as her 😁
WATCH THE GOOD PLACE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY
Sarah Z Yeah ive watched it! It's so good!
i love your love for zuko cause same
Yeah, I'm surprise at how many people can say that The Simpsons has been on way too long, but still love Supernatural. Supernatural is the CW's version of Simpsons. It's been on way too long and are just running in circles now. Great video.
"... actually, I might just really like Zuko." Don't we all?
I like to just imagine Supernatural ended at season 5...
Me too! :/
It technically did. The original author of the show only wrote those first five seasons. That was his legacy and then he was done. But then the channel approved more seasons because obv people liked it so much, so they hired a new writer from season 6 on. (Well technically from those last 5 minutes of the last episode of season 5. Yea. Pretend Sam was never standing there....) Anywho, you're 100% right for that mindset!
Love your videos! Keep 'em coming (or not, no pressure, I just really enjoy listening to you)!
Community and A:TLA are my two all time favorite shows and I think they both perfectly balance unrealism and heart tugging scenes that make you fall in love with the characters everyone you watch the series. The fact that I got a rush of goosebumps each event in Zukos journey you mentioned is telling of how strong the balance is :)
❤❤❤❤ This reminds me of something I was taught in a playwright class: "It is always better to have a probable impossibility than an impossible probability." Which ultimately is what this video is all about. Loved it.
Basically, Zuko is best boii.
Just my input: I have always tried to expect internal consistency within a story and its settings. I do not mind, if it is unrealistic compared to our world. But if they decide to expound upon some internal logic of their world, then I like it, when the story does not break its own logic. I would consider this to be conventionally good writing.
You’re so well-spoken and so easy to listen to and understand!! Completely agree with everything you stated ^^ love your channel :)
I couldn’t even imagine trying to make Welcome to Nightvale more “realistic”.
The entire point of the show is absurd escapism and allegory....
DID YOU JUST USE THE “BONE” SCENE WHEN YOU REFERRED TO BROOKLYN NINE NINE SNDJJSJSBS
HI, I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL SO MUCH
Love the video! I think that there was one thing that you missed though: Worldbuilding. Most movies today have things in them that couldn´t happen in real lie (superheroes, sci-fi elements, comedies where no one acts like IRL etc) and we accept it for the reasons you list, but also because it is a part of that world. Take the newer Star Wars for example. In the earlier movies it´s well established that even if you are some kind of chosen one you will need a lot of practice, guidance and time to be good. Then we see Rey, and she does things that even the earlier seen jedis can´t do without any kind of practice whatsoever. Wha makes this bad isn´t the fact that it couldn´t happen in our world, but that it shouldn´t be able to happen in THEIRS. George Lucas has built a world where there are certain rules, and we accept them because thats how movies work. It´s when those rules are broken, however, we see it as unrealistic and bad.
Supernatural seasons 1-5 was incredible, because of the reasons you said, plus more. However, as you explained, dragging out the show caused the same repetitive pattern and inconsistencies as more and more characters that we'd never heard of before now were introduced.
However I heard that season 13 is really good??
(Long comment ahead. Sry...) Exactly. Finally someone puts what I've been thinking about, into words. I KNEW I WASN'T THE ONLY ONE.
💙Zuko💜
And Supernatural. Omfg it's so true. I got so tired of it. Like even the main-ish characters like Castiel RANDOMLY (conveniently) goes missing when he is most needed.
The first 5 seasons were amazing but everything after the is just "monster of the week/month/season" there is no arc anywhere. What does Dean killing death have to do with Billy have to do with Cas killing Billy have to do with the British chapter of the--- I give up. Forget it.
Anyway, this was another awesome video.
Also, I'm interested in knowing what you're thoughts are on the anime Yuri On Ice.(it's totally ok if you don't watch anime, obviously. But if you do like anime, maybe do a review on YURI ON ICE)
PS: Your hair looks on point.
PPS: where did you buy that pendant?
Thank you! I'm glad you liked the video
DAMN IT I HAVEN'T WATCHED ALL OF BROOKLYN NINE-NINE AND NOW I GOT SPOILED THAT JAKE AND AMY GET ENGAGED 😂:(
I love most channels that analyze media, but especially yours because you're so darn friendly!
Your channel is amazing! Your comments are really smart and accurate! Keep going!
I watched Avatar this week and enjoyed it a lot. It is way better then expected. Great series.
To me, the main thing that matters is emotion and reactions that are human enough to understand.
I think a good example of somewhat unrealistic elements working in a more down to earth show is in Arrow Season 5. They bring back the character of Laurel through an alternate universe and while that may feel like a goofy detail for a show mainly based around a Robin Hood-like vigilante simply fighting crime, it works well for the plot with us having already seen multiversal and meta human elements introduced, and it helps to show a story of the team having the chance to reconnect with her after what happened to her main universe counterpart and dealing with her as a new threat working alongside the main villain.
one thing u didnt mention but i thought would be relevant is arrested development, essentially the father of all modern surrealist comedy.
its an excellent deconstruction of the dynasty type family in a modern day and age with characters who act as exaggerated stereotypes of different types of selfish behaviour.
The surrealism of the show borders on down right absurdism as these unreal characters are flung into random yet extremely ironic situations,
take for example my fAVOURITE moment in the entire series:
Buster, the evil hag matriarch (Lucille)'s son wants to join the army to spite her and get her to pay more attention to him, so she throws a going away party to spite him. Due to both characters inhability to say how they feel, buster flees the army at the last second after he signs up and tries to flee into the ocean, as one last act of defiance against his mother who always told him a shark would come bite his hand off if he swam in the ocean.
Not heeding Lucille's warning he goes into the ocean anyway, only to be warned by a life guard to "watch out for the loose seal!" that is swimming with him in the water, he misunderstands the warning, and claims that he is free of his mother, the seal then proceeds to attack him and bite his left hand off, thus fulfilling his mother's prophecy
I think Fargo season 2 is a good example of having an unrealistic element that works; there's a very unrealistic twist in the ninth episode that works well because it ties in to the themes of the season and with many of the characters' arcs
To be fair, the internet collectively said "you can't make weapons out of light, here's how it actually works" when George made that statement that lightsabers are actually made of light.
you should talk about queerbaiting
Good explanation for what happened to Supernatural...I personally love the show to a point that I kept watching it even after I stopped being happy with the writing decisions, especially because every once in a while you still get fun characters or weird one off stories. But I've finally reached my limit even with that and I find that I just don't care anymore. Some people get confused when they see how much of a fan I am but how much I tear apart the newer episodes, and it's for the reasons here. I just wish that it would reach some sort of ending soon. The actors are so tired, I can see it in their faces, and I only want the best for them
You've mentioned several modern story-based cartoons in your videos (adventure time, Avatar, Steven Universe ect) and I just wanted to know your thoughts on Over The Garden Wall if you've seen it. If not, I highly highly recommend it
Well said!:) I think the level of realism also needs to be standard throughout the story. So better to choose which way to go and stick to it.
I was recently slightly disappointed in a psychologically motivated "thriller", that in the end became more like some James Bond action movie. It didn't spoil the fun, but would have been better if you don't have to think "wow, how is this book nerd with unhealthy life habits even physically capable to perform that?"
true, but strongly depends on context. A parody or a camp drama would be the realistic in psychology or being relatable as people.
Really interesting video, and I completely agree with the points that you've made! I always love things that are pretty fantastical, but it is definitely incredibly important to have that level of realism there with the characters. The circumstances of the world can be as nuts as the creator wants, but the characters are what has to help bring it down, and guide us through that world and make us really care about what's going on because of how they are tied to this weirdness. Like superhero movies tend to be stronger when the hero has something real and personal at stake that the audience can understand rather than just, "there's a bad guy and the noble thing to do is stop them in an over the top fight sequence".
Love your points on Avatar, totally agree that that show aces it, as well as Brooklyn Nine-Nine. I also totally agree with the Supernatural comments. Used to love that show but the monsters of the week and plot seem more important than genuine development and fresh interactions with the characters now, and the plot itself... is not even good. A show that excels strongly at what you're saying in this video is Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency. All the circumstances in that show are absolutely weird and crazy, but all of the characters are so wonderfully fleshed out and distinctive, all with their own quirks and relatable features, and your care for them and their sweet relationships is what really pulls you into the show and the craziness. They are all undoubtedly real and human in a world that is absolutely nuts, and it is a very important thing to have.
Awesome job with this, and I look forward to more video essays from you! (Also, amusingly, my name's Sarah Z. too, and I seem to share a lot of your opinions lol)
i don't know what it is but there's something to be said about Lost and how much mysterious stuff was tolerable up to the spontaneous polar bear that not only crossed the line but rendered the line pointless
I have been saying this for years. Seriously I relate more to the Crystal Gems than I did to the "realistic Superman" in Man of Steel.
Positively brilliant video!
This is a rather fundamental question that I've never been able to come to much of a conclusion about, but this does a pretty good job of it.
I'm not sure it's the definitive answer, but it's quite a big part.
There's also some element of it having to be "logical" even if the mechanics of the established universe are completely incompatible with our own as we understand it.
There are examples of events in fiction that ruin the suspension of disbelief regardless of whether they serve the plot and themes.
i know this show came out over 10 years ago, but as a person who is in the middle of watching it- can you warn us before discussing ATLA spoilers? xD i was hit with hardcore (i assume) series finale spoilers out of the blue and as far as i can tell there was no mention of such in the title or in the video.
does a series have to be realistic? no. In fact, for me, the less realistic it is, the better it gets.
but it's gotta be BELIEVABLE.
very different, but important
So glad I found this channel. Could listen to you talk for hours :)
2:00 uhm, actually you *can* make weapons out of light. You can use a laser to cut iron or as a scalpel and a laser is "simply" (mostly) monochromatic, directed, coherent light 😘
'Realism' is used conversationally in a shorthand; it usually stands for either tonal consistency, verisimilitude, character consistency, a mix of all three, or the deliberate exclusion of some of these - depending on what the person speaking means to convey.
Verisimilitude is what nearly everyone means when they mean realistic; it's not about how 'real' it is but how 'like real' it is. A modern show set in 1960 is unrealistic since it's not 1960, just like it's not 2080. The key is building a world that would feel real IF it was 1960, 2080, where it was the apocalypse or four elemental nations and so on. Where we know how the world works, its similarities to the real world are known and its significant variances either laid out or irrelevant for the time, we can follow the story without needing to be lead, and even get the satisfaction of realising what is about to happen before it actually does.
Tonal consistency is what people complain about the most, although they focus on trappings of verisimilitude much more so. A show's tone is vital to how we invest in it - we even categorise shows by genre - horror, comedy, thriller - because the tone of the experience we want is that important to us. Recent Star Wars films show what tonal inconsistency does. For all that angry fans focused on the trappings of the show, the core of complaints about Episode 8 were that it didn't 'feel like' Star Wars - a complaint of tonal inconsistency between entries. Meanwhile others specifically praise it for feeling different, because they had no investment in the tone. Episode 9 is tonally inconsistent even with itself - tonal incoherence - and is disliked by nearly everyone even if they again fixate on the trappings. Tonal consistency is vital for us to 'play along' with the film; when you make predictions of what will happen next they are somewhat influenced by real world examples, but much more focused on narrative and genre conventions, which are the strong tools of setting tone. A tonally inconsistent show at best deprives us of the fun of playing along, and at worst makes it impossible to even follow the narrative.
Character consistency is about building up effective characters that feel close enough to real for our minds to build a picture of them. We can play along with a character's foolish or ridiculous or self-destructive actions when they feel like natural outcomes for the character. Good villain characters are fun specifically because while their actions are unpredictable enough to surprise us, they are consistent enough that we know when and how to expect surprise. People often call character choices 'unrealistic', which for all it tells you that most people don't really use critical language well, makes it very clear that when a character acts inconsistent with our picture of them, we may reject the actual act they have done in the fictional universe because of the theoretical picture we have of them. Character inconsistency makes it impossible to empathise with or even care about the characters, which can be fatal to storytelling.
Can we talk about the subversion of the unrealistic devices to create exactly " boring stories" about really relatable, day-to-day human experiences just for showcasing fascination with the anodyne? And I don't mean documentaries or real stories that are shown on TV, but media that is explicitly made with the purpose of portraying ordinary lifestyles as fascinating, to bring out the fascination in it. Think Virginia Woolf works or the arthouse film "Jeanne Dileman". I really think those should be discussed too.
I'm surprised you didn't mention Danagnronpa. The characters in those games, at least as far as their talent goes, are often so over-the-top and impossible that it practically flies in the face of the grounded mystery being presented, and yet what draws us to them is their very human conflicts and internal struggles.
I'm not really sure this is about realism so much as it is about people wanting their entertainment to be logically consistent. People want solid characters and worlds that feel lived-in. A well-written scenario is an extension of that. Even if it's super outlandish, like in the Tarantino example, the characters all behave in the manner you expect them to given the situations they're in.
"Realism" as it's commonly referred to is just people not having the right words to explain that they want creators to respect their worlds, their characters, and their stories.
Have you ever watched any of Team Starkid's musicals? Their combination of super unrealism and incredibly relatable and human characters is something I believe you would enjoy.
YES I LOVE STARKID
Sarah Z Awesome!! They're so great and funny while still maintaining developed plots and characters, I did think you'd like them x
Also omg thank you for replying, you are one of my favourite RUclipsrs
love how passionate you are when you talk about avatar haha
The other Indiana Jones films had mystical elements in them before (i.e The Holy Grail and the Arc of the Covenant). Never got why aliens was SUCH a hated change but IDK, fine. 🤷♀️
I love your candid reviews. they're interesting and you remain passionate all the way through. I can tell it's not just a show or book or movie for you, it's about how the media represents topics and I love it. I started by watching your video about queerbaiting and haven't stopped. I've already subscribed and can't wait to watch more of your stuff. Keep it up! :-)
How does "unrealism" square with "magical realism"?
The only example of "magical realism" I know of is Like Water for Chocolate. For those who don't know it, a warning before you do: It's STEAMY!
Bone Gap is a good YA stab at Magical Realism! I didn't like the writing style personally (I've just learned that I am not one for the genre) but you might like it!
Depends on what you're trying to do. Starkovsky's If is just one way to develop characters.
Before watching the video I just want to say; no... entertainment is supposed to be an escape from reality. Why would I want the laws of real life hold down a great story?
I love Kingsman so much, Kingsman 2 is underrated if you look at each film as a response to each Bond. The first Kingsman is a reference to Sean Connery and the eccentric villains of the films while Golden Circle is a reference to Roger Moore’s over the top plots and style
"Probable impossibilities are to be preferred to improbable possibilities" - Aristotle
i agree with all of your statements, but the problem i have is that a lot of people confuse characters reacting realistically to their circumstances as them being weak or poorly written. the example i always use is Sayaka Miki from Puella Magi Madoka Magica; without giving spoilers, Sayaka reacts absolutely like how a 14 year old girl like her would to being introduced to the world of magical girls and everything that entails in the pmmm universe, but a lot of the fandom seems to hate her for the way she acted. maybe i'm biased bc she's my favorite, but it's immensely frustrating to see characters being written as grounded or "realistic," only for them to be hated for that realism, y'know?
I love your channel! Your content is always great. Well done with your exams!
I can agree with you on the whole unrealism thing in fiction. So long as they have ground rules or logic (not necessarily based off science, just some sort of unsaid rules/laws that the universe the piece of fiction creates follows), consistency and relatable characters they don't need to be a copy of real life. If they were, they'd never have an end, be incredibly biased and be at least 20% less entertaining. More like 50%... but you know.
I still freaking love Supernatural, but you do have good points :D. It's different if you have a personal connection with a show beyond the characters and storylines though, so it doesn't really count. Though my favourite season is actually 11 and that was before I had this personal connection.
Personally I wouldn't consider AtLA unrealistic. For me the existence of fantasy elements isn't what makes something unrealistic.
It's the lack of thought that goes into them.
Ie. I'd consider AtLA realistic because they thought through the implications of the fantasy elements are thought through.
I think the best way to put it would be all entertainment doesn't need to be "realistic" all the time, and sometimes realism can be very entertaining (emphasis on sometimes).
Heyo just found this channel and I LOVE it!! your an excellent reviewer, keep doing what your doing!
Hey I like the video. But that B99 spoiler came out of nowhere
I would love to hear you talk about Scrubs, because that's one of the thing they got right allot of the time.
I find it can be useful to use the word believable rather than realistic. Another point is what is believable/realistic will depend somewhat on the viewer. History nerds will be heavily annoyed by a lot of scenes in Brave Hart in ways which the average person wont for example.
Can these critiques apply to a story of a video game as well? I would say yes, because there are some stories that are really good. Just make sure it matches and awesome gameplay and you have one solid game.
Great work, very well thought out!
Though I maintain Azula beat Zuko, if through underhanded means XD
Mob Psycho is the most far from reality yet well grounded show I've seen