This is very much still a handmade cymbal. The fact that you are controlling each strike and working towards a plan for each cymbal and adjusting it in real time makes all the difference. If you tossed a blank in the machine and it came out the other end completed, then I might feel differently. I would agree with you using this even on your TR line. As long as the end product sounds exactly as you want it to, that’s what people are paying for.
Tim, you are fucking cool. Don’t ever doubt yourself man. All of this shit is awesome and all of your product offerings are awesome. I believe that you really put yourself into all of it and that rules. Growth is good, but as long as you stay this involved- I completely understand wanting and needing extra help and machines like this. These are not machine hammered cymbals in any real appreciable way.
thanks for taking the time to explain your processes so clearly, and give us customers a wealth of information so that we can make informed decisions and choices with confidence in your remarkably musical cymbals. there isnt anybody doing things with any more conscientiousness and dedication to excellence than you. bravo!
Definitely think it’s cool. I love Paiste and they use a similar machine that I think still has incredible craftsmanship incorporated due to your control of the cymbal in relation to the machine while giving you longevity in the craft which is hugely important! Excited to see the add ons you referenced!
It’s absolutely cool. This gives you an even broader palette of potential sounds to explore and exploit, and adds longevity to your craft. When applied in service to your personal brand aesthetic, it’s all good!
I think it’s great such an art and the fact that you can make a more rock cymbal expands your audience and market. I see the Nicky Moon is that a sticker or was it his machine??!!! Your cymbals always look and sound great and this was a great video thanks. 🥁🔥
so, after 100 cymbals made, you got some base understanding? what about the trial 100 cymbals, how the customers feel abou them? :) Love your job. Best cymbals sound, period.
Conceivably, with an XY suspension (like for a CNC plotter) holding the cymbal and the right software, you could record yourself hammering a blank once, then copy your hand-guided hammering performance to other blanks of the same diameter. Of course, the blank would have to be within a 'waviness tolerance' and there are various I/O hardware adaptations needed, but this video really got me thinking about how to use technology to expand the available market for independent cymbalsmiths. At some point, it's no longer appropriate to use marketing terms like 'handmade' with such a process, but as long as the cymbals are fantastic it seems there could be a decently large pool of drummers waiting for costs to be reduced past a certain point. Or, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. In any case I'm going to pursue this just for my own curiosity.
i think you have the right idea with using the machine to delineate the reverie series from the TR series. i think almost just for principle’s sake, you should refrain using the machine on the TR line to preserve the wholely hand hammered nature. this seems like a huge tool and asset and i support creating a cheaper series but i feel like if you use it in the TR line, then all the TR cymbals made before the machine will become the coveted ones
This work might mess up your wrists you might wanna consider using a custom, glove with wrist stabilization or wrist compression/support. Once you start getting nerve pain you will regret not having looked into that. Consider speaking to a sports medicine doc.
Totally saw what you aimed for doing the 'pizza-slice' sectioning, moving kind of outward in rays. What would happen to the shape/control if you'd go round in rings, starting at the bell's foot and circling outward to the rim? Would that then risk more of a 'floppy summer hat' shape?
From what I've seen, concentric is usually the standard pattern with hand-guided pneumatic hammering in the big companies like Paiste and Zildjian. I don't notice them having to correct much for wavy edges on blanks though. I think Zildjian and Sabian shape press pre-hammering, Paiste begins with totally flat sheet stock and hammers into a uniform profile, and UFIP centrifugally casts each cymbal into a basic profile and then hammers mainly for sound.
Yeah that's right. Most of the big companies use a hydraulic press to get a profile shape in the cymbal before any hammering is done. They don't really ever have to worry about wonky shapes. To me, the hammering "pattern" is not as important as getting the compression work done. Either circles or pizza slices will get the job done.
Quick Question, how did you get into Cymbal making? I've always admired the beauty of a natural, hand hammered cymbal. So much warmth. But I'd love to learn more on the art of cymbal making
Many years of being obsessed with cymbals, and then years of experimenting while dreaming about "what if..." in regards to having the equipment. Slowly I got there!
I'd say just how similar the power hammer and hand hammering really are. There's mechanical differences for sure, but the process of compressing and deforming the bronze is so similar.
Isn't a cymbal usually completed after the lathing? Then of course some use a coating to prevent corrosion lastly. I'm referring to when he says go back to the hand hammer after it's lathed..I assume this is another step only some cymbal smiths take because it's not all machine made..
Serious question, Tim. I've long wondered, people who are hand hammering cymbals as their full time job, do you end up with a ripped dominant arm, and a string bean for a non-dominant arm? I can't imagine that all that hammering wouldn't build muscle. If so, do you do any lifting with your weaker arm, to try to keep symmetry? Probably sounds like a weird question, but I'm a curious sonofabitch!
@@flapjack413 you wonder correctly! My right arm is significantly larger than my left and I try to offset that with my workouts. It looks a little funny sometimes. Haha
There's probably way to many possible answers depending on many different things, but simply put, if it's tacoed you need to hammer the opposite side to stretch and tighten the taco back into a normal shape.
This is very much still a handmade cymbal. The fact that you are controlling each strike and working towards a plan for each cymbal and adjusting it in real time makes all the difference. If you tossed a blank in the machine and it came out the other end completed, then I might feel differently. I would agree with you using this even on your TR line. As long as the end product sounds exactly as you want it to, that’s what people are paying for.
Thank you so much for not gatekeeping this precious info. Where were you when i started hammering cymbals into the worst taco's ever.. Great video
I've been watching your vids for a few months now and the amount of goodness I've learnt about the instruments of my craft is properly mind-blowing.
Tim, you are fucking cool. Don’t ever doubt yourself man. All of this shit is awesome and all of your product offerings are awesome. I believe that you really put yourself into all of it and that rules. Growth is good, but as long as you stay this involved- I completely understand wanting and needing extra help and machines like this. These are not machine hammered cymbals in any real appreciable way.
Thanks brother! 🫡
thanks for taking the time to explain your processes so clearly, and give us customers a wealth of information so that we can make informed decisions and choices with confidence in your remarkably musical cymbals. there isnt anybody doing things with any more conscientiousness and dedication to excellence than you. bravo!
Definitely think it’s cool. I love Paiste and they use a similar machine that I think still has incredible craftsmanship incorporated due to your control of the cymbal in relation to the machine while giving you longevity in the craft which is hugely important! Excited to see the add ons you referenced!
Cool + thanks for the video! I love the idea of you also offering rock style cymbals. Smart
Digging it! Thanks for the class.
It’s absolutely cool. This gives you an even broader palette of potential sounds to explore and exploit, and adds longevity to your craft. When applied in service to your personal brand aesthetic, it’s all good!
Thanks Phil!
Really cool.
Some of my favorite cymbal ive played and own, are hand controlled machine hammered cymbals. Love that you are implementing this machine Tim!!!
I think it’s great such an art and the fact that you can make a more rock cymbal expands your audience and market. I see the Nicky Moon is that a sticker or was it his machine??!!! Your cymbals always look and sound great and this was a great video thanks. 🥁🔥
This was his machine! I bought it from him when he decided to close up shop. He's a great smith.
so, after 100 cymbals made, you got some base understanding? what about the trial 100 cymbals, how the customers feel abou them? :)
Love your job. Best cymbals sound, period.
Believe it or not, I haven't ruined any of them beyond what I could fix with hand hammering. It's a miracle! haha
Very cool!! Well done with great info✌️
Conceivably, with an XY suspension (like for a CNC plotter) holding the cymbal and the right software, you could record yourself hammering a blank once, then copy your hand-guided hammering performance to other blanks of the same diameter. Of course, the blank would have to be within a 'waviness tolerance' and there are various I/O hardware adaptations needed, but this video really got me thinking about how to use technology to expand the available market for independent cymbalsmiths.
At some point, it's no longer appropriate to use marketing terms like 'handmade' with such a process, but as long as the cymbals are fantastic it seems there could be a decently large pool of drummers waiting for costs to be reduced past a certain point.
Or, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. In any case I'm going to pursue this just for my own curiosity.
That's fascinating! I probably won't ever do that, because I'm a glutton for the punishment of the hard work... haha
i think you have the right idea with using the machine to delineate the reverie series from the TR series. i think almost just for principle’s sake, you should refrain using the machine on the TR line to preserve the wholely hand hammered nature. this seems like a huge tool and asset and i support creating a cheaper series but i feel like if you use it in the TR line, then all the TR cymbals made before the machine will become the coveted ones
I can dig that!
This work might mess up your wrists you might wanna consider using a custom, glove with wrist stabilization or wrist compression/support. Once you start getting nerve pain you will regret not having looked into that. Consider speaking to a sports medicine doc.
Believe me, I know. The add-ons I'm gonna get for this hammer will address that.
Totally saw what you aimed for doing the 'pizza-slice' sectioning, moving kind of outward in rays. What would happen to the shape/control if you'd go round in rings, starting at the bell's foot and circling outward to the rim? Would that then risk more of a 'floppy summer hat' shape?
From what I've seen, concentric is usually the standard pattern with hand-guided pneumatic hammering in the big companies like Paiste and Zildjian. I don't notice them having to correct much for wavy edges on blanks though. I think Zildjian and Sabian shape press pre-hammering, Paiste begins with totally flat sheet stock and hammers into a uniform profile, and UFIP centrifugally casts each cymbal into a basic profile and then hammers mainly for sound.
Yeah that's right. Most of the big companies use a hydraulic press to get a profile shape in the cymbal before any hammering is done. They don't really ever have to worry about wonky shapes.
To me, the hammering "pattern" is not as important as getting the compression work done. Either circles or pizza slices will get the job done.
@@ReverieDrumCo I don't yet trust myself to do anything but concentric circles. I've made too many tacos...
Quick Question, how did you get into Cymbal making? I've always admired the beauty of a natural, hand hammered cymbal. So much warmth. But I'd love to learn more on the art of cymbal making
Many years of being obsessed with cymbals, and then years of experimenting while dreaming about "what if..." in regards to having the equipment. Slowly I got there!
Great content. What do you think the biggest takeaway you have from doing 100+ cymbals is?
I'd say just how similar the power hammer and hand hammering really are. There's mechanical differences for sure, but the process of compressing and deforming the bronze is so similar.
Isn't a cymbal usually completed after the lathing? Then of course some use a coating to prevent corrosion lastly. I'm referring to when he says go back to the hand hammer after it's lathed..I assume this is another step only some cymbal smiths take because it's not all machine made..
Yeah, I like to layer my cymbal-making process to get the sound I have in my head. Every smith has a different process though.
Serious question, Tim. I've long wondered, people who are hand hammering cymbals as their full time job, do you end up with a ripped dominant arm, and a string bean for a non-dominant arm? I can't imagine that all that hammering wouldn't build muscle. If so, do you do any lifting with your weaker arm, to try to keep symmetry? Probably sounds like a weird question, but I'm a curious sonofabitch!
@@flapjack413 you wonder correctly! My right arm is significantly larger than my left and I try to offset that with my workouts. It looks a little funny sometimes. Haha
Hey! Any advice how to try and fix a ride that is bent like a taco?
There's probably way to many possible answers depending on many different things, but simply put, if it's tacoed you need to hammer the opposite side to stretch and tighten the taco back into a normal shape.
I wonder if anyone has tried hammering a cymbal with a rivet gun.
You could be the first! haha