NO GOAL???!!! A one-sided Referee???
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- Опубликовано: 21 ноя 2021
- MYHockey Tournaments Tampa, Florida Fall Classic 12U AA) Nov. 12 - 14, 2021
Timberwolves vs. Chicago Hawks
Nov. 14, 2021, 11:30 AM
@ Clearwater Ice Arena
Head Coach: Ryan Walz
Asst. Coach: Tyler Brown
Asst. Coach: Joe DiPietro
Manager: Pam Reineke
www.timberwolveshockey.com
1685 W. Higgins Rd., Hoffman Estates, IL 60169
5 Itgel Tumurbaatar
7 Jayen Shah
10 Ryan Reineke
11 Brandon Yu
21 Maven Aaron Bacus
22 Diego Avila
29 Filip Sitnik
32 Jake Linkowski
39 Eli Brown
40 Maria De Andres Carrasco
44 Vojta Lukas
66 Joshua Warren
74 Gabriel Lotowski
75 Kevin Koo
84 Donald Redmon
HOFFMAN ESTATES
TIMBERWOLVES HOCKEY CLUB
2020 - 2021 PEEWEE 12U AA1 
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These kids have more camera angles than the damn NHL. Felt like we were taking this to Toronto to be inspected on further review 😂
Best comment!! LOL
Better camera angles then beer league
The NHL'S TV channels do Not show certain angles on PURPOSE for a reason.
Goal or not, it was a great play!! Kudos for the kids teamwork and passing to put it in the net.
That was some really good passing
Goal or not? Are you high? I bet you’re a ref!
he was just complimenting the player are YOU high?
@@MikeyBranco2007 Hey now. We still have some real ones like Wes McCauley
@@MikeyBranco2007 Pretty sure he was saying "besides the call, that was some fundamentally sound hockey." I don't think he was disputing the face it was a goal.
The goal frame was dislodged by the goalie. In the NHL it would be a good goal. In a USA Hockey sanctioned play must stop immediately. Many goalies in these games will intentionally dislodge the goal frame to stop play so they don't get scored on. I've seen it done many times watching my son play hockey growing up. It's frustrating to watch and happens way too often. This USA Hockey rule needs to change.
Yeah cause the goalie pushed it off with his foot! And it made no difference in the goal
It wasn't deliberate,. It was unfortunate, but you are right in your assessment: play should have been stopped immediately. Had the puck not entered the goal, play would have been stopped. It is just part of the game.
you said it...thats why Canadians are much better at hockey
That’s actually an imminent scoring chance, that’s a good goal. USA hockey has a rule in place for that.
Here's my theory: In USA hockey games, the nets are not on NHL type moorings(as was mentioned probably for safety purposes). So nets come off easier, that leaves goalies in a tight spot because they will often use the post to push themselves across the crease to make saves. In the NHL, the moorings are strong enough to withstand that force, but for youth games they are not. So it wouldn't be fair to penalize a goalie for something that is inadvertent. I'll admit it can be abused
As a long time USA Hockey, junior, college ref, what stands out to me the most is how lazy that referee is. There’s no way that a referee should behind the play at that level. To be caught is one thing, to be gliding is another. What an embarrassment!
Chris, I’m also a long time USA Hockey, Junior, and College ref, and I have to completely disagree with you. First of all you can see from the video what exactly happened. He got caught on the boards, let play pass him. Not a problem it happens. I don’t know why he was in that position because we do t have the previous minute, but once he’s caught and his partner is no where close to being able to cover he did the right thing. Secondly, as the play is going into the zone you can see exactly where he is looking. The slow mo actually helps he has great sight lines on the play developing. At that level, and in that 2 man system, I’ll take what he did rather than just busting ass to the goaline.
Maybe you’ve worked to much 4 man refereeing lately, and not enough low level 2 man, but I actually think this was overall a decently officiated play. They got the call right. Were there some things that could have been better of course, as in all things, but knocking the guy for gliding to the goal line while he’s clearly got eyes on the play is not one of them. Also it’s in no way an embarrassment.
@@awoods910 care to explain why it's a no goal then? Genuinely confused because it looked clean as day to me.
@@shaggydabbydoo1468 Hi Shaggy, its pretty easy, and others below have alluded to. The net came off the line before the puck went in. Which in USA Hockey means no goal.
@@awoods910 oh ok. Gotcha. I didn't even see that or the other comments. Just read these and went about my day. Thanks for informing me!
@@awoods910 Just out of curiosity, can a goalie knock off his own goal like that and at least not have a delay of game penalty or a good goal. Seems like a goalie could just act like they did it on accident if there is a break away and have the play called dead.
The real problem here may be how easy that net came off.I understand the safety aspect to prevent injuries but that just seemed to easy.
The nets at that level are not anchored in any way!
12U AA games REALLY should have anchored nets. Where I work games, every level except for 8U is pegged.
@@ImNotGam They're usually mildly anchored by just some spikes in the ice and magnets for anything up to about U16 here, and my 'here' is where Crosby played as a kid. I think the thing is it's the same rinks, your Timbits and Teenagers all play on the same rinks, so its not like that can change it game to game.
@@EnderSword could've just said Cole Harbour 😜
@@ChrisJones-pi5mh Us in Cole Harbour know that...and bask in the glory of the sign every day...but I figure Americans don't know where that is
Look, I was in this game, number 28 in the first slow motion replay. The reason it was called off was because the net was off if any one was wondering. At our age it should be pegged but for some reason the net wasn’t
That's also the refs responsibility to make sure the nets are securely on.
Regardless, this should have been a good goal under the adapted rulebook.....I'm a Hockey Canada ref myself and I can safely say I do not believe this should have been waved off
The net came off in the play motion not before, and it was the goaltender who dislodged it
@@nolankeilty3732 Yeah but be barely kicked off of it. And it's not like the goalie is a big guy. It makes me think it wasn't secured properly. But you're right it very much should've been a goal.
@@ktbphoto it might well not have been, but I've also come across some terrible pegs in my almost 10 years of reffing
Net was clearly off although the ref should be at the goal line, so people don’t have a reason to complain.
Goalie can’t knock his net off
@@hjiskie2386 yes he can just it will be a delay of game penalty
@@hjiskie2386 if it wasn’t intentional then it’s fine
This is another problem with play at this level. There are often only two refs riding the boards and one has to make their way into zone and behind the goal line while the other stays back on the blue line. So a lot of goals are confirmed late and a lot of tie ups have a ref caught in the middle at the blue.
There were no pegs so it would’ve been a good goal anyway
When I played, I had a one on one going in the zone up the boards. I bent down to get under a check. My helmet broke and my face mask was dangling from my helmet not cover my face. I came up with the puck and was headed for the goal. The puck found it’s way to the back of the net. The ref called no goal because of my face mask situation.
The ref was in front of me and could see my mask was not covering my face well before I took the shot.
The coach on the other team started a chant
“Give the kid the goal”.
The ref wouldn’t budge.
After the game the opposing coach told me that it was a great shot and a good goal.
Bottom line, the ref should have blown the whistle at the time of the “violation” and not allowed play to continue. I never lost control of the puck.
This is one of the many inconsistencies and poorly thought out formats and rules that USA Hockey refuses to address for some odd reason. This situation is a hindsight call. If the ref was unable to detect that the goal was dislodged prior to the whistle indicating a goal the goal should count. By the time the ref realized the net was dislodged, the danger was over, and the puck was in the net. There was no point to the rule at the end of it. Why USA hockey doesn’t address rules like this that create so much controversy, especially in a time when officials are constantly on edge is beyond me.
No. USA Hockey has a rule to allow obvious and imminent goals when the net comes off. It just wasn't obvious to the Ref because he was giving zero effort on the play, and then proceeded to guess. Truly embarrassing.
@@burningfarts Except that the net is off before the player tips the pass into the net and it is off even before he receives the pass. My guess is any imminent goal rule only applies after the shot is taken. Also, the imminent goal rule is specifically for when the goalie has been removed for an extra attacker. I think the correct call in this case under the rules is a penalty shot.
@@jgoog7442 The correct call is a goal. The goal was knocked off because the goalie pushed off on an imminent scoring chance. The dislodged net had no negative affect on the play. The referee made an error. We as refs make mistakes.
Rule 5-section [g] "If filmed by more than 3 camera angles that flip back and forth the play will be automatically overturned because Brad Marchand"
don't forget the 10 game suspension to Tom Wilson
This is brilliant...
😂
Ha!
Wow, these kids knew the spirit of team sports more than many professional players!
This is the same design of an arena from where I live, I was watching and was like wait... that looks like an arena from my county.
it's a goal ....................read the rules " In the event that the goal post is displaced, either deliberately or accidentally, by a defending player, prior to the puck crossing the goal line between the normal position of the goalposts, the Referee may award a goal."
Agreed but couldn't you counter argue that it still should count because the net being displaced gave no advantages. They would have scored any way
@@astrosynth9857 Absolutely correct
the key word in that rule is "may"....its a judgement call of may or may not..
Your missing the operative word here buddy the ref MAY award the goal not will or shall it's a judgement call by the ref. MAY award means they can not that they have to
that's not the right rule. youth hockey uses the usahockey rule book so the right rule is Rule 610(e) “Play shall be stopped immediately when the goal frame has been displaced from its normal position.”
"Rule 610(e) in the USA Hockey Playing Rules states, “Play shall be stopped immediately when the goal frame has been displaced from its normal position.” Therefore, the officials must disallow a goal if they are 100% certain the goal frame was displaced prior to the puck crossing the goal line....
If the goal frame is deliberately displaced in the last two minutes of the game or anytime in overtime, a penalty shot/optional minor penalty shall be assessed....
If a player on the defending team deliberately displaces the goalpost when the goalkeeper has been removed, if in the opinion of the Referee, the puck would have entered the goal - thereby preventing an obvious and imminent goal - a goal shall be awarded in lieu of the penalty shot."
So that is the rule. It doesn't appear that the referee thought the goalie deliberately displaced the goal, so he made the right call. What you have to understand is that often at younger levels, the posts are not anchored very deeply and move quite easily. It is part of the game. It is a trade off for player safety as if a kid goes flying into the net, the net needs little pressure to move. That said, I am sure the team that scored the disallowed goal will have benefited an equal amount of times from the same call going in their favor against their goalie who did not deliberately displace the goal. It is just part of the game. Give the official a break. We are loosing officials because of coaches and parents who think that they know the rules better and then take their anger out on them. Seriously, use this as a lesson to teach sportsmanship by the players and not so much by the coaches and parents.
the goalie push it so therefore it would be a good goal
@@kansascitysaintshockey7210 but he did not appear to dislodge it intentionally. Therefore, sadly...no goal. But them the rules.
@@kansascitysaintshockey7210 It doesn't look intentional, so it wouldn't be. Check the rule book. USA Hockey is very clear about this.
I would counter with this. The ref was out of position so he couldn't call the play dead. He noticed the goal was off the line after the goal. How does he know the goal was not scored before the net was dislodged. The most important thing being the ref never called the play dead. Just like that call between the Blue Jays and the Rangers. When Martin threw the ball and hit the Rangers players bat. The ump called the play dead right away. Then they reversed the call? Did the players stop playing because the ump called a dead play? Could they have made a play if the ump didn't call the play dead? The umps/refs are wrong in both these plays imho.
@@kansascitysaintshockey7210 Only if he did it on purpose.
Ref just out there coasting ... either way, amazing play from the youngsters!
and you wonder why there is a nationwide shortages of officials in youth sports....
I used to wrestle throughout high school. Years later, at my coach's bequest, I started refereeing. Trust me, it was not for the money! 99% of the time, coaches and wrestlers thanked me after a contest/tournament/etc. Of corse, there was always that one guy who undid all the good work done by staff, officials, volunteers, and gym monitors. Often in some sports, calls can be discretional, some are clear cut. I had no issue when a coach asked me to clarify. But it was that one chowderhead every few weeks or so that made me say, why do I put up with this crap.
good call. this is NOT a goal under the USAhockey rule book.
Rule 610(e) in the USA Hockey Playing Rules states, “Play shall be stopped immediately when the goal frame has been displaced from its normal position.”
We all know how stupid American rules for everything.
@@gprime7210 huh? same thing with hockeycanada....no goal can count if the net is displaced. if the puck is in the end where the net is displaced the play is blown dead.
@@gprime7210 i THINK thats how the hockeycanda rule is interpreted. I ref USAhockey so I could be wrong. but yeah.. you wanna talk about stupid rules how about the no delayed offsides for any age group.
actually situation 7 in the casebook under rule 610 covers this, the goal should have counted
i think under swiss rules this would be clearly a goal because otherwise the goalie can just knock of the goal all the time and interrupt the game
Hockey Canada Rule: 10.4 SITUATION 7
No goal is to be allowed if the goal is off its mooring, regardless of whether or not the goal may have been deliberately knocked from its mooring, except under Rule 4.9 (b) - Penalty Shot, when the goaltender has deliberately dislodged the goal from its mooring during a Penalty Shot or again under Rule 4.10 (b) - Awarded Goals, when the goaltender has been removed and they or any teammate has deliberately dislodged the goal from its mooring and such action has prevented a goal from being scored.
USA Hockey Rule: 610 (c)
Play shall be stopped immediately when the goal frame has been displaced from its normal position. A minor penalty shall be assessed to any player (including a goalkeeper) who deliberately displaces the goal frame.
Ref got the call right. Situation still sucks, it realistically should be a goal, but that is on HC and USAH, not the stripes out there.
Although he still shouldn't be that far behind the play in a U12 game.
Also, the play was 100% onside.
It was in Hershey PA
I included the USAH rule as well, ref still got it right
Ref didn't get the call right though. The ref didn't see when the net was knocked off or he should have stopped play. The fact that he didn't stop play for the net being dislodged means he had no awareness that it was.
@@Milehighsnake98 that doesn’t mean he got it wrong. The fact that he washed out the goal means he got the call right. He likely saw the net was off after the fact and talked to his partner who likely had a better view being on the other side of the ice (or his partner came down to talk to him first for the same reason), and they concluded (correctly) that the net was knocked off before the puck went in. On a play as quick as this, him blowing it down in time really doesn’t matter because at the end of the day the goal was not scored legally and they rightfully figured that out and washed it out.
@@themattgannon The goal was scored by the rules. The play wasn't called dead when it happened so that leaves one of two things.
1. The officials didn't know when the net was moved which means they can't negate the goal.
2. The officials knew it was off but CHOSE to allow play to continue with the net off. At that point, their claim to be able to overturn a goal for the net being off is null. Choosing which rules to follow for the officials is a huge problem and shows gross incompetence in their capability.
The best part that everyone is missing is that push the passing player gave to a defenseman after the goal lol
I absolutely despise this rule....when it is not in my team's favour. LOL
Awesome play by the kids!! Cannot say enough good about that. I now feel sorry for the ref for being put in that position by an insanely stupid rule.
Will also point out that it wasn't the goalie's fault either as he was in desparation mode trying to get across the crease. Once again, an insanely stupid rule and, as far a I've heard, there is no discretion afforded the referree's in this situation. If the net is off for any reason, there is no goal. I watch Jr. A and it is the same thing.
It seems that 50% of the time, I think it is when I am playing. When I am reffing, it is just part of the game. Player safety first.
Funny, new for this year in the SHL - If the puck is shot and would have gotten into the net had the net stayed, it is a goal. Personally I saw it happen like 2-3 times this season. I liked it better the way it was, but I guess I am old fashioned.
i've only ever played with canadian rules so I might be different, but the whitslte only gets blown after the team with the puck takes there chance
This isn’t even the rule. The net coming off doesn’t disallow a goal. That may have been the rule before, but not in the past few years.
I remember playing for this team. Was a great time. Moved on to High School Hockey now.
@Rails of Chicago And Beyond Was it the Hoffman Estates Timberwolves
@@no6418 Yes sir.
NO GOAL (e) Play shall be stopped immediately when the goal frame has been displaced from its normal position. A minor penalty shall be assessed to any player (including a goalkeeper) who deliberately displaces the goal frame.
If the defending team deliberately displaces the goal frame during a breakaway (see Glossary) or deprives the attacking team of an immediate scoring opportunity, a penalty shot/optional minor penalty shall be awarded to the player in possession of the puck.
If the goal frame is deliberately displaced in the last two minutes of the game or anytime in overtime, a penalty shot/optional minor penalty shall be assessed.
If a player on the defending team deliberately displaces the goalpost when the goalkeeper has been removed, if in the opinion of the Referee, the puck would have entered the goal - thereby preventing an obvious and imminent goal - a goal shall be awarded in lieu of the penalty shot.
The rules are quite clear....To those of us who've taken the time to learn them. I'm actually pretty impressed the ref made the call he did, too often refs get their knowledge polluted by watching the NHL, which is a very different rulebook for a variety of reasons.
They should leave some judgement up to the refs for situations like this. The net dislodging had no impact on the play so it should count
My Swedish team and I went to Chicago for a hockey trip/tournament. We met Timberwolves in a group-stage game in that tournament. :D
I coached in Mass and we played a lot in NY.Other team on breakaway shoots goalie save shooter falls down slides in goalie both go into net Ref called it a goal.Another time in Maine tied 3-3 Ref calls 2 different player for 2 min penalty Ended 3-3 but we had 17 called on us 2 on other team.Other coach couldn't say how sorry he was and the other players class act by them
I don't think he dislodged it on purpose. Extension of the leg to seal the post is proper play. Additionally, I think he was anticipating the puck going far side for either pass or shot as you can see him raising his right leg to push back, but when the post is dislodged he can no longer push off it.
Doesn't matter, this is where the NHL gets it right. Should be a goal
Thanks for posting the video (and even the slo mo portion). Based on the comments below, shows being a Hockey Ref is harder than you might think if you;re just watching from the stands.
The ref should have been behind the net to watch the play happen. The fact the ref wasn’t even in the zone speaks volume of how bad that ref is. If he was in position he would have seen the goalie knocked the net off. Instead he asked the goalie and took his word.
@@adamcartwright4096 Actual at this level of hockey refs are NOT supposed to be behind the net, (like they would be in the NHL or higher levels of lay) they're supposed to be at the goal line. But I agree with you the Ref should have been in front of the play as it crossed the blue line not behind play. I truely wish that more of the rink was visible and that they hadn't edited the video at 0:36. With the entire video and more of a field of view this would have been a create training video.
@@rdumiak I played all levels of hockey. And yes the ref is supposed to be behind the net to see the difference play. Just like the other ref was already at the blue line. They don’t need two at the blue line.
@@adamcartwright4096 not exactly true. Been a ref for years, and starting junior A next season. In this case, behind the net wouldn’t be the best spot to be, but instead what we call "half-piston."
Also, the official didn’t ask the goalie. The one who washed out the goal was actually the back referee on the other side of the ice, probably because he had the better angle to see the post move before the puck went in because he wasn’t looking through the goalie.
This once happened to me and because the whole league hates me I get booed when this happened once but I still find a way to score and these kids have nice teamwork
Nice play man ps that was a good goal
The net wasn't even on the line when the puck went in so tht wouldn't count as is
How do you know? The ref didn't call the play dead. It should count as a goal. There is no proof the net was dislodged before the goal was scored. The goalie could have knocked it off when he hit the post on the way across. This would have happened afer the goal was scored.
As a hockey player myself there is no offsides as the player wasn't completely over the blue line but the net was dislodged by the goalies skate blade so if this was an NHL game the whistle would be blown as a call for NO GOAL the way the play was called. Also the guy in the back making the goal call wasn't paying attention to the puck as he would easily see the net get dislodged.
In the NHL they have a continuation of play rule. This is 100% a goal at the professional level. But as others have said the USA Hockey rule is play must stop immediately. So here in this video by the book the right call was made.
Wrong. If it was the NHL, it would've been a good goal. USA hockey rules, the play stops as soon as the net comes off for any reason. It was the right call. If this was the NHL, it would've been the wrong call and overturned.
Like others said you are incorrect. It was an imminent scoring chance so it would have been an automatic goal at that point.
I can't remember who it was ( Rask maybe ) however it happened in the nhl and counted already.
I think in a minor game play stops immediately if the net is dislodged. So I see where the ref is coming from
why is this video edited like a fever dream???
Seen the exact same play by goalies a lot. Once 3 times in a junior B game costing one team 2 goals. They gotta come up with a delay of game call if the goalie is not touched or allow the goals to stand!
There is a delay of game penalty if the ref thinks it was on purpose. If it happened a lot in one game, I wonder if the pegs were for a younger age or if the ice around the pegs got damaged and made it easier to become dislodged. I will say that if a net comes off once, it will probably come off again relatively quickly.
yeah as a ref myself in Canada, to parrot what we already know it's a good goal.
- Ref was not in a good spot, and the game always looks different from any angle. so i can give that respect, however;
- Goalie knocked their own net, but no penalty shot should be given because it was not intentional
- puck would have gone in even if the net wasnt knocked off
- Attackers stayed outside of goalie crease. and ofc, no kick or highstick anywhere
As a level 5 ref in Canada, you need to reference
10.4 SITUATION 7
No goal is to be allowed if the goal is off its mooring, regardless of whether or not the goal
may have been deliberately knocked from its mooring, except under Rule 4.9 (b) - Penalty
Shot, when the goaltender has deliberately dislodged the goal from its mooring during a
Penalty Shot or again under Rule 4.10 (b) - Awarded Goals, when the goaltender has been
removed and they or any teammate has deliberately dislodged the goal from its mooring
and such action has prevented a goal from being scored.
This is a no goal
USA Hockey rules state otherwise, this game is being played in the Tampa area. The official no matter what spot he was in, was in fact correct here
Hockey Canada Rule 10.4 Situation 7:
No goal is to be allowed if the goal is off its mooring, regardless of whether or not the goal may have been deliberately knocked from its mooring, except under Rule 4.9 (b) - Penalty Shot, when the goaltender has deliberately dislodged the goal from its mooring during a Penalty Shot or again under Rule 4.10 (b) - Awarded Goals, when the goaltender has been removed and they or any teammate has deliberately dislodged the goal from its mooring and such action has prevented a goal from being scored.
@@jasonleisten130 USA hockey rules state this is a good goal.
@@np11111 But the referee was not in position to determine whether the net was off before the puck went in. The rules also state the referees have to stop play when the net is knocked off its mooring. No stoppage = no net off mooring = good goal.
I feel the pain. This happens to me all the time
OK, I fell for the click bait. Without more, like an explanation from the referee that was false, or more of the game to see if this was a pattern or something, you cannot suggest this is a one-sided referee. Congratulations, you got me.
LOL. Net was off. Goal can't be scored with the net is off the moorings. Pretty straight forward, really. The fact the rink is full of people who dont know the rules makes it even funnier. The kids may be AA, but the parents hockey IQ is in House League. The fact you posted the video, in slow motion, and still blame the referee for making the right call is a great example of how little you know about the game.
My dude... The video shows the goaltender displacing the net with his pad. You can't just knock the net off it's moorings to prevent a goal haha.
Your Hockey IQ doesn't seem as high as you think it is, cause it's a goal, clear as day!
This is the part of the rule that should be used in this instance. Since it was displaced deliberately by the goalkeeper. If a player on the defending team deliberately displaces the goalpost when the goalkeeper has been removed, if in the opinion of the Referee, the puck would have entered the goal - thereby preventing an obvious and imminent goal - a goal shall be awarded in lieu of the penalty shot.
@@zip5644 a goal should never become dislodged to a skate pushing against it as it's literally used by all goaltenders at all levels for just that purpose and always has been
After reading the caption and some comments, how in the world could you call the official biased? If he was against the scoring team, the ref would have called the play offside. Personally, I think that play was good. The referee called it appropriately whether you like it or not.
No off-side: black and white call
No goal: rule book says so
No penalty: Judgement call, I'm good with the call made. It didn't look intentional that the goalie dislodged the net
I am a ref also, I see why that he called no goal, I would have called it a goal, but since the net came out of position I see why, the net moved before the pick went it
Not only was it a goal, it was a GREAT play- passing in front of the net and not being selfish. Shame on the ref.
I love the fact that a disallowed goal in a youth hockey game made a parent go through at least 7 different camera angles to put together a video. End game? Show how 1st world problems are dragging us down?
you don't have to be so angry that someone has the ability to film a kid's hockey game. if someone in the third world has the ability to set up 7 cameras they'd do that too.
As a tendy that is a goal the kid knocked it I know that wasn’t on purpose but it was going to go in anyways I’ve been told that by the head of our refs where I live
Future NHL ref in training. He's doing great.
I was at this game I could not believe that call
Parents literally need to be put in a isolation box cause they have no idea what the rules of this game are
The goal was moved a tiny bit. Still would have gone in tho I think
Yeah. It would've been a goal no matter what (most likely). Who knows though. If the net doesn't come off, the goalie would've had a great push off and might've gotten there in time to make a great save.
@@darthollpheist1156 agreed.
@Shelby Sigouin Yup!
In the event that the goal post is displaced, either deliberately or accidentally, by a defending player, prior to the puck crossing the goal line between the normal position of the goalposts, the Referee may award a goal. soo that was 100% a goal
He complained the net was off? I was I St. Louis this week and we were in a tight game up 2 and I make like 2 saves in a row I keep telling the net is off and nothing was done make another save raps it around and he waves it off. A minute later he decided nevermind it counts.
Also a USA Hockey referee for 15 consecutive seasons. This should have been considered an imminent scoring opportunity regardless of the nets positioning and goal should have counted. Taking the rules too literally without applying common sense and judgement is worse than not knowing the rules at all.
That said, a lot of people aren’t mindful that this guy (similar to myself) are not professional referees and have day jobs families and other hobby’s. This is a kids game and some parent (likely the goal scorers) dad had the time and energy upload an amateur referee making a mistake. To who posted this…”imagine if we uploaded all the videos of you kid missing open nets and crashing in the boards because he can’t skate?” It’s an amateur game, right size your expectations or before you know it, their won’t be any refs left to work little Johnny’s games for volunteer wages in a freezing icebox…
Just noticed it’s an IL (Hoffman Estates) team…not surprising at all. Ironically am from that area and work these teams. You can tell from the fact the parent has 4 go pros set up around the rink that hes living through his 12 year old son. Sad.
Reffs are paid to do thier job. Thyere no volunteers! Nothing makes coaches more frustrated than a complete lack of professional competence from the officials. Well that and hockey parents :)
That’s a no goal! The goalie knocked the net off while he slid to the right.
If the player is shooting at the net before the goalie knocks the net off its a good goal even if the net is off. But it was off before the player even got the puck to shoot so no goal.
Thats not how it works. If the defending team knocks the nets off it can still be a goal.
@@greenchef6 I know I thought about that right after I commented it.🤣🤣🤣
@Michael McCallion yeah it’s stupid…
@Michael McCallion USA hockey has some dumb rules fr
Bro thats where I play hockey😳
Well the rules for minor hockey state that it is no goal, but they also are clear about how that's a delay of game penalty on the goalie.
Kid on the left looked like he might have been off sides by half a step.
Terrible call though, if you're gonna hold off on the whistle that long you just let it ride.
I went back and replayed it a bunch of times in 0.25 and it looked onside.
@@thomasmckenzie4584 You're probably right, but the refs on the ice don't get to look at replays a bunch of times at .25x unfortunately. If that was the reason for the no goal it was an absolutely terrible call for sure. I can't think of anything else in the play that would have triggered a no goal call.
@@BenchSandwich The net came off.
If you actually think this isnt a goal because the goalie knocked the net off, you do not know hockey lmao. Thats 100% a goal.
Amen
Read the rule book bud. You don't know hockey because the net was off even if he did it purposely. Now there is a arguement for a penalty for knocking the net off but it was a legit call by the ref.
As a goalie for 14 years, i can assure you that it does not count when the net is off
From behind the net it looked like the goalie kicked the net off but that no reason to disallow that right?
Was the goal even pegged in. It just floated back without popping up from what it looks like.
I can tell you one thing, the ref is NOT one-sided. 1, he is simply going by USA hockey rules. 2, ITS U12 HOCKEY
Ummm? Its still a goal. Which means the ref is 1 sided.
I cant even tell if the net was dislodged, may have been offside but COME ON! that infuriates me, though good or not, it was stiill a great play.
Goal!GOAL! Hey ref just because you have a relative on the losing team and a brother in the stands telling you how to ref a game, where a GOOD team is winning vs a BAD team is losing and a brother named Karen reffing in the stands is telling me that you should just skate off the ice with a sign saying
I quit because I don't know to to ref a kids game!
I was shocked at first but it was actually the CORRECT call. From 1:15, you can see the goalies right skate touch the goal post, slightly dislodging it. It didn't seem intentional at all, but the posts are probably on soft pegs so that children are less likely to get hurt if they skate or slide into the net. Pegs should be a bit stronger tho..
I mean I'm no referee but how can you tell that it wasn't intentional? How is it allowed to be subjective as to whether the goalie purposefully hit the goal or not, and why is this even a rule. If the net moving doesn't affect the goal, the goal should count.
I hope the leafs draft #21. The kid has got moves💪
He said, he might go to leafs next season. He played with them at "Blue Select" twice or trice already.
The net is clearly off its moorings. Look at the right post in the behind the net camera angle. If that post holds, the net doesn’t come off and MAYBE the goalie can push off it and come back to make the save. GOOD CALL REFFY!!
This is a very interesting situation. Although I have not had to deal with a call such as this one, I do believe it is the correct decision to rule it "no-goal". I assume the officials in question are USA Hockey officials, judging by the crests. According to Rule 610 (e) "Play shall be stopped immediately when the goal frame has been displaced from its normal position." It seems that the goaltender accidentally pushed the net off, as they are held on with metal pegs that have a very small, dull spike (about half an inch) that dig into the ice, keeping the net from sliding off all the time. In my opinion, this appears to be "no-goal", as the net came off the goal-line before the puck went in. I could be wrong however, and would be more than happy to admit that. This is just my opinion from my experience and knowledge.
I actually work at that rink. There isn't a ton of consistency in how firmly the net is stuck in place. It's often my job to move the nets after games and they are sometimes very easy to dislodge and other times they stay in place unless you really push. I'm not sure why the inconsistency exists, though
Yah, it happens sometimes.
yea but the goal is still supposed to count even if the net is off
Rule 610(e) in the USA Hockey Playing Rules states, “Play shall be stopped immediately when the goal frame has been displaced from its normal position.” Therefore, the officials must disallow a goal if they are 100% certain the goal frame was displaced prior to the puck crossing the goal line.
Unless deliberately removed by a defending player. And in this situation it's borderline, there was no interference with the goalie to make the net come up but it didn't look like he meant to. He shouldn't have taken the goalies word for it in this situation.
Beauty goal
And...do you guys do replay? Lol multiple c cameras for peewee hockey
That was a great play. I’m also 21 good number
How come the net moving due to the goalies push count as a no goal? I'm a goalie and I hit the post pretty good and I've never had a goal taken away due to the net moving.
Safety issue. If the net is pegged down like they do in the NHL, kids will crash into it, the net won't move, and we will have a ton of injured kids. Small price to pay for child safety.
He should have been awarded the goal, the goalie pushed the net off and he had it wide open. It’s like when the other team throws their stick in front of the net if their goalie is pulled, the shooter gets awarded the goal.
Must be anchorage Alaska. Sivy, he gets pleasure out of calling off good goals🤣
Coachable moment for coaches and parents. The game is very much mental. You regroup, work hard and continue to compete. Good and bad calls are going to happen along with good and bad plays. They are young and making a positive out of it will continue their growth.
Best comment on this video yet!
Let's change the rule.
Goal scored before the whistle is a goal .
Goalie or his team dislodge the net when other team has possetion of the puck is a penalty shot for other team . I ve always hated that rule but used it also.
"Goal scored before the whistle is a goal" could cause a loooooot of problems
As a goalie I would have been surprised if they scored on me and that happened. I wouldn't argue obviously but still
I would say thats a goal but the ref only said it was not because the net was off but just to point it out that was a great play
That was great play though. This team is pretty good
Not the team they were playing lol. The Dman played the PUCK on a 2 on 1, and then for some odd reason lifted his stick in the air to defend?
It was an awesome play and all but the goalies net was off so maybe that’s why if didn’t count
Tbh in those leagues there are so many one sided refs that stuff like this is not uncommon and it sucks, but it'll get better soon
Was the player offside at 5 sec point of video? Great team work
why does it cut away? I'd like to see an unedited video where the ref actually waves off the goal.
Great play. Looks like the net may have moved also.
ITs kids american sanctioned hockey. It is the right goal. If the goal is not in place play stops imedietly or any goals that happened after it fell out will not count. But it was an insane play
just happened to me on a breakaway so mad rn cuz of it
The net was off by a good six inches, but it was a great play regardless.
USA hockey rules say the second the post is dislodged the play is dead. NCAA would let this fly as a 'continuation of play'
The net was off but good play
Seen this all the time playing house league in Quebec as a native team
just happened to my team 2nd round playoffs
At 0:22 the goalie used the net to kick off and moved it. The puck was in the net at 0:25 or at 1:19 net kicked off 1:22 puck pass the line.
In Sweden it's a goal anyway IF the puck "should" have go in, even if the net is out of position.
the play was onsides and should have counted, but the net was off thus no goal. great play!
if you notice official has no arm bands which means he is also doing lines that is why he is back . Also watch the player on the far side when he crosses the blue line he is offside, should have dragged back foot.
Foot doesn't have to be in contact with the ice anymore.
Clearly in the net
That was an impressive play for 12U. Unfortunate call, but the rules are the rules. Can't really blame the ref for enforcing the rules, no matter how dumb they are.
The rule states that if the puck was obviously in the net it counts.
They’re kids, it doesn’t matter. Great play!
The other team wasn’t even back checking lmao. Great play though.
I mean the net did come off… 😜
Nylander & Bäckström 🔥
I had a ref that called off 2 goals in the championship game
If u look closely the net came off when the goalie slid that’s why it wasn’t a goal
It is a good call though. The moment that the net frame came off, play should've been stopped.
USA Hockey Rule 617 Case 2:
"The goal is tipped forward from behind as the result of player contact with the goal. The goal posts remain anchored to their position on the goal line. However, the cross bar pivots forward and down. Can a goal be scored while the goal is in this position?
No. Rule Reference 617(a).
The goal is considered to be displaced when the goal frame moves, causing the goal posts to no longer be on the same plane as the goal line (extended)."
Or 610(e):
"Play shall be stopped immediately when the goal frame has been displaced from its normal position. A minor penalty shall be assessed to any player (including a goalkeeper) who deliberately displaces the goal frame. "
The goaltender also did not deliberately displace the frame, that slide move is executed almost perfectly however they mess up after the net moves, as they have nothing to push on to go the other way.
The moment that the frame moves, no goals are allowed to be scored. The goal frame does move, and that also messes with the goaltender as you can see in 1:18.
The referee was in an "ok" position, I agree, however the call that they made was still correct. Like it or not, it's the right call
And yall wonder why there's a shortage of referees.