I wish we got a game that focussed more on Phoenix and Trucy's relationship. It feels like whenever one is involved in a case, the other is absent. I'd love to see flashbacks to what Phoenix was doing when he lost his badge and being a single dad. On the note of Flashbacks, I'd also love it if we could have a whole case (or more) of when Mia was a defence attorney and Phoenix was working/studying under her.
Not only was it splitting the game between 3 protagonists, they also neglected Ema, Klavier, and Trucy, whom were all top tier characters from the previous game, and got between no mention for whatever reason to assisting in one investigation segment.
Right? As a result, the whole cast were underutilized, which was such a shame. The DLC case works so well since it takes its time to focus on that particular cast and that’s why it’s so memorable.
@@JacksMelancholy I really hate how Apollo Justice, Dual Destinies, and Spirit of Justice don't really try to build up a new recurring cast of characters and instead just have the Trilogy people return. I wanted to see Vera Misham again!
@@TheAzulmagia That's not really Apollo Justice's fault though. Apollo Justice is hurt by its sequels because it leaves a lot of questions unanswered (Machi's motive, Black Psyche-Locks, Gramayre family). People often criticize Apollo Justice for not having a developed cast of characters but forget that the original Ace Attorney only developed Edgeworth.
Sahdmadi gets overhated, he's not the most interesting Prosecutor, but at least he's a consistent character (which is more than I can say for Simon, whose arc doesn't really make sense) and is pretty imposing, which I think leads into what makes Spirit of Justice as good as it is.
@@peacorptv6502 The problem with Nahyuta is that he only shows doubt and changes until the very end of the game; the final case. It happened way too late and way too fast imo. Especially considering the tragedy that unfolded in 6-3 due to the DC Act. Simon carried case 6-4 for me, but that case was a reset of his character for me :c
I decided to play Dual Destinies about a month ago after taking a little break from the series. I looooved seeing my favourite characters again. But it wasnt really all there. Athena is one of my favourite characters in the series, I love how she really struggles with her past but tries her very best. Apollo was… disappointing. I found myself forgetting his personality. He was just edgy with no deeper meaning (at least for the first few cases.) Who the hell is Clay?! Why does he suddenly have this really close friend that we’d never even heard of?! I also really disliked how they abandoned Klavier. The relationship he and Apollo had was similar to that of Edgeworth and Phoenix, but still fresh with a new dynamic. When he turned up as a guest character in the school case, I lost my shit!! Like, thats my dude!! Hes back!!! But no he wasn’t, and wow there was nothing to his character than a face value impression of Klavier Gavin. Phoenix was okay, but I found his sudden change to be quite jarring. I loved how he had seemingly matured with becoming a father in AJ. I love Nick, but I’d rather they focus on either new characters or old ones. You can’t really have both. I haven’t finished SOJ yet, since DGS is my focus right now. I’m a little unmotivated to play it after DD though. I gotta skedaddle, even though theres so much more I wanna say. Unfortunately school calls!
Klavier Gavin was seriously underused in DD and we’ve yet to see his relationship with Apollo (or anyone for that matter) deepen any further. It’s quite unfortunate because he was a fresh take on prosecutors.
Dual Destinies, what can I say about it... It's a really amazing game. The 3D models are ambitious, but they're still cool. They've ruined the perceive mechanic a bit, as you can only present it while investigating, but they've made it up with Mood Matrix, a mechanic which even though is easy as you don't punished by missing it, it's fun. Turnabout Reclaimed seems gorgeus, even tho I haven't played it. It has the same problem with Apollo, I wish I could put it higher, but the majority of the games are just kinda better. But the cases, especially the final 3 cases... Turnabout Academy is one of the best in the series, and you play as Athena! The murder was really planned and just a treat to figure out, especially the "Hugh O'Conner" with "You're a goner" and the Phoenix Wright statue segments. The 4th turnabout is kind of forgettable, but still good, even if you don't arrest a culprit. But it was all a build-up for the final case...The characters? Great execution, like Aura and her robots with the hostage situation. The gameplay? Really good, the turnabouts and the think route segment is simply stellar. There was even the Mood Matrix and the quick perceive segment. The plot has some plot holes, but they're kind of small compared to the gameplay and twists, in my eyes. But the first 2 cases are just kind of boring, and as commented, they reveal the killer right away, and they are just not too memorable and annoying. It's worth it, but that's the weakness of the game for me. The soundtrack is just perfection. Athena is a great character, and I'm one of the people who just need a Athena game. But nonetheless, still a amazing game regardless, for me.
I’m also someone who enjoys Turnabout Academy, despite its shortcomings, it’s a really enjoyable case. Hope you get the chance to play Turnabout Reclaimed, it’s such a joy.
That's what I love about the AA franchise. Even its weakest entry was still a lot of fun. I have enjoyed every single entry and that is something that you just simply can't say about most video game franchises.
I think it is worth playing but I find it to be the hardest to replay. Then again, replaying AA games, when you do it right, is always like going to a school reunion. I vaguely remember the twists and turns and every time I recognize them it is like a pleasant little shot of nostalgia but by the end I realize it doesn’t mean as much now as it did then.
Weakest?! Have you played Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney? That game has a genuinely awfully written overarching narrative, terrible gameplay structure and bad pacing. It is by far the weakest game in the series.
Honestly Dual Destinies is my favourite entry in the series, even to this day. I have fond memories of playing it in high school during free time or alone at night. I started playing it after I was fresh off of finishing Trials and Tribulations so it was my first time seeing Apollo in action and I think they nailed making him a great character, especially when compared to his debut game which I played through later. Also I really like how they tried to go for darker themes, not being afraid to show so much blood, and explore subjects like harsh trauma. Those kinds of moments really stand out to me the most and I feel more attachement to the characters involved.
I’m really glad that this game resonated with people like that. It’s always fascinating to hear how other people experienced the series. Dual Destinies certainly did allow Apollo to come into his own a little more with Spirit of Justice doing an even greater job.
Long explanation coming so apologies in advance. I understand the faults and complaints that everyone has with DD and I think this video did an excellent job highlighting them, but even with all that said DD still stands as my favorite AA game. It could be the nostalgia talking since it was my first AA game played but I did recently playthrough all 6 AA games and the 2 AAi very recently and DD still stands as my fav. The OST is my favorite in the whole franchise as I am a sucker for full orchestrated music and its just so good and they absolutely nailed the 3D models which is something else I see a lot of hate about but will still love and defend them.
Most of the characters were done very well in my eyes. Phoenix's character is at his peak in this game with all the attributes from the trilogy and AA4 all coming together here. He's truly mastered everything we've seen in the previous 4 games and the modern redesign they gave him was excellent. It was also so good to see him back as a lawyer which he However with that being said I do think the times we see and play as him were portrayed well. That is until he tries to avenge Clay. I do agree just shoving Clay into they story with next to no interaction does make it hard for the player to care about Clay and Apollo's motive but I got real invested the times and played the game and the clash between Phoenix and Apollo in Case 5 is one my favorite moments in the franchise. I also really liked how Apollo spoked and acted like Kristoph to try and appear confident and sinister whale trying to accuse Athena of being Clay's murderer. As for Athena I thought she was a good character to introduce even though I also agree it was a little early, especially since AA4 had introduced Apollo. But I do think by the end of the game her character and goals were fleshed out enough. The mood matrix was a cool addition that I liked and played well with the story with the themes of emotions and the psychology of people. Even though I do think her addiction drives the focus away from the other 2 which is annoying but I think what they did with her was great. It was also heartbreak to see her so distraught when she though she could've killed her mother and the added Black Psyche-Locks just made it all the more intense, mysterious, and flat out scary since we only saw it one other time with Kristoph, it only made Turnabout for Tomorrow and even better finally case in my eyes. Now for Simon Blackquill, I love Simon as a character and prosecutor in fact he's my second favorite prosecutor only losing out to Edgeworth obviously. He's a perfect prosecutor taking all the best traits from the previous 4 and also bringing his own traits to the table. By Case 5 when using the mood matrix on Simon when finding out about the truth of the UR-1 incident was a heart pounding moment ending with one of the most notorious lines in the game. Also the chemistry Simon and Athena have is amazing and I wish it was fleshed out more than just the ladder parts of Case 5 and Case 4 of SoJ. Overall the characters in AA5 I found were to be well written, the main characters that is, there are some flaws of course and some older side characters were really forgotten about and just thrown in like Trucy, Klavier, and Maya. Although the newly introduced characters like Fulbright and Woods were nicely written in to help the story, with Fulbright especially being one of my favorite characters in the franchise.
The cases in the game I thought did their jobs well. Sure Cases 2 and 3 serves as filler but as filler cases go I think there are some of the better ones in the series. Case 3 was very fun to play since it stars Athena and even if Means wasn't the best culprit and kept bashing the same line in you over and over again. It was also nice of them to bring back Klavier even if they didn't really do much with him. It was nice to see he was well after the events in AA4. Cases 1, 4, and 5 with them being all connected to each other is something I always enjoy when AA games can pull it off like AAi 2. Case 1 being a pretty solid first case one of the better ones in the series. Showing Athena dark past, Phoenix's triumph return, the assault on Apollo, and the introduction of the mood matrix, Juniper Woods, and Gaspen Payne. Of course showing the culprit in the very beginning is something that always annoys me with all AA games but still taking him down was still fun and was just the was the beginning for cases 4 and 5. Those 2 cases gave me some the best times I've ever had in any AA game. The ending to case 4 and all of case 5 was filled to the brim with suspense that very few other cases could deliver. The twist with Fulbright had me in utter shock the first time it happened I simply couldn't believe one of my favorite characters to truly be The Phantom. I know The Phantom can be seen a character with so much mystery that it's boring but that mystery makes the character for me. As said in the video he's cold and I love him for that reason. The fact you never know his name or face adds on to it for me. And his breakdown on the old cliché of "who's the person behind the mask" is done in such a twisted and sick way was a twist I very much enjoyed, and of course the actual breakdown is on the best there is. As for his motives the initial attack on the space station may not be clear and the whole "confidential" part of it is a little cheesy but the follow up of him trying to self preservate himself and the scramble that ensues is his main motivation to me. The twist of the moon rock being in space for 7 year but only then to come back to earth to haunt The Phantom again is was such a badass moment. Of course I can still see and understand the arguments made about why The Phantom isn't held to the likes of other villains and how a lot of people couldn't get invested into a character that practically shows and has no character, and only acts like other people. I do think The Phantom works and does the job of a main villain well though and I can say he holds up to the great villains the series has. And for the DLC case it's such a fun one. The whole concept of defending an Orca was hilarious and the case specific characters and music was all done excellently. It's kind of a shame we never got more DLC cases I feel like that was an opportunity both games didn't take advantage of. As for other smaller things the redesign of the courtroom is my favorite rendition of the 3, the grandness it's trying to give really show especially when paired the the 2013 version of Court Begins. As for for the Psyche-lock and Perceive mechanics they definitely took a back seat to the Mood Matrix unfortunately. Mostly Perceive as it was used only like 2 and neither in cross examinations or in any significant situation which is just a waste of time especially coming after AJ. As for Psyche-locks I kind of see it more of the mechanic just getting worn out and also Phoenix mastering the Magatama after all the events he went through in AA 2 ,3 and 4 so I kind of forgive its lack of penalty bar and relevancy. It could also just be Capcom not caring about and just trying to shoehorn in it for fan service.
To conclude cause I know I've rambled on for far too long so sorry for that I think AA5 just gets everything right for what I want in an AA game great story, characters, and overall presentation. I understand its criticism's and flaws but what they did and added makes it all up for me. I've never really written something like this before and it probably shows I never had the opportunity to discuss AA5 like this and I'm just really passionate to talk about this game and series that I love so much. Again this is just my opinion I completely understand if you don't agree with me and I hope you understand where I'm coming from. Even if no one reads this it was nice to at the very least get all this off my chest. Also Jack if you're still reading this just want to way I recently found your channel and I've enjoyed all your videos. It's nice to see a channel still discussing AA and I hope to see more videos soon. Also AAi 1 is the worst/weakest AA game IMO.
Your experience is so intriguing to me; as I mentioned to a couple other people who have shared similar opinions, I always assumed that the game wouldn’t be the greatest for newcomers to the series, but you not only prove that isn’t the case, it’s also clear how much the game means to you. I think that the second case in particular doesn’t hit the ground running as hard as it should have and despite a lot of people having gripes with case three, I enjoy it for what it is (whacky obvious villain aside). The courtroom redesign and overall 3D look is quite appealing to me too. While the original sprites have their charm, this look suits the series for modern day systems. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts and support; hope we can explore more aspects of the series in the near future.
@@JacksMelancholy Still remember playing it in 2013 and I enjoyed it just as much last year while doing a replay. I do agree with you on Case 2, a case about Yokai and wrestlers should've been a lot better then what was delivered and it just didn't get the ball rolling. The original sprites and look will always have there place and will always be iconic. But the graphical overhaul was a great change and one I'll always support. Anytime man, it nice to find a space to discuss this stuff. Do hope we can continue talking more soon it was fun just writing these comments. Keep up the good work!
Excellent video! Imo i think the reason why DD doesn't resonate with me is that nothing about it ever feels genuine or because it's something they wanted to actually use to tell the story, or even a story to tell for that matter. The fact that they designed twists over everything, gimmicks over characters first, its over the top nature, not spoiling anything because people might replay previous games, it's easier structure and Phoenix's return without him having any real reason to be there or any personal stakes It just feels hollow? It felt as if it's something to be marketed over something that makes it stronger or a good entry or maybe it's a misunderstanding of the series and the fans? I don't know exactly why but it feels empty. Side note, during the first DD trailer Apollo is never once shown and it's mostly focused on the 3D, Phoenix's return and the new character Athena it's funny but also pretty sad None of these are inherently *bad* like you said designing twists first can be a useful tool but in this case it's just more unfortunate because the build up to said twists feels so underwhelming that the twists themselves end up feeling even moreso. I definitely get why this was done, it's been 6 years since the last mainline game, AJ has not been received the best at its time of release, it's a new engine on a new hardware, it's a NEW and MODERN Gyakuten Saiban! But that's what i feel like is what contributed to how hollow it feels to me, it's more a *new* entry than a *good* entry and now that it's neither one it's just, again, hollow It also tended to present its conflicts as really simple issues like, take Means for example. While he is incredibly obvious and his ideals are never elaborated on apart from vague actions from the students that never really led anywhere and the buzzword catchphrase, there was some hope for him, he wasn't a caricature like L'Belle or a gimmick like Tonate, despite his unsubtle actions and dialouge there was some implication that while yes he was going to frame Juniper and save himself, he was gonna defend her and her friends later "by any means necessary" as he puts it but nope when you get to his confrontation he transforms into a caricature of a spartan and everyone makes fun of him while they play funny music and then Athena straight up just says he only did it for himself and he was just evil and "the embodiment of the dark age of the law" with zero tact and in your face. And after they arrest means they say something like "he was good once like Courte but he was corrupted by the dark age xD" and they go "damn we really needa end this dark age lol das crazy" just tells you without any nuance it feels insulting to me. DD has a serious problem with tell don't show imo But of course the biggest factor to this feeling of hollowness is its titular character himself, Mr. Phoenix Wright. There, playing Case 1 of Dual Destinies, it sets up a number of intrigue and questions and we get to play as a new lawyer determined to save her best friend but then she gets cornered, it's too much for her! And then OBJECTION! Phoenix Wright appears to save the day! Yes this is a very strong hook considering the fact that it has been 6 years since the last mainline game and in said game, Apollo Justice, Phoenix wasn't in the best of state nor was he that well liked but what he did have was 10 years of experience and skill and thinking that we get to play as that veteran is a very strong hook and it maintains that hook for a while, Phoenix has such a massive presence, he's in control of the trial but then as the trial goes on he loses his grip and acts even more unprepared than ever and he has zero connection or motivation in the actual case because he's just taking over and this is i think a consistent problem with Phoenix in DD. through the eyes of someone else Phoenix seems cooler and in the investigation segments where you play as him, he's not so bad but when you get to the trial segment it's such a jarring shift that it makes his prior appearances feel worse, this guy is a jarring blend of an attempt of a trilogy Phoenix and a veteran Phoenix that he feels like a guy wearing Phoenix's skin. You could say that AJ Phoenix was also just an empty addition for marketing purposes but that Phoenix felt like he had to be there, there's a reason why he's there and a story they wanted to tell with him in it, and a place in this brand new saga that he otherwise had no place in which is what DD Phoenix is, he has no personal stakes in anything and when he does (his subordinate going AWOL and his own daughter getting kidnapped) he treats it more like a minor inconvenience. He's not a good mentor too because much like AJ he's mostly off screen and just watches from the gallery but AJ Phoenix was actively being a cryptic jerk to tell Apollo how to approach things on his own and his lack of presence is due to his "secret mission" DD Phoenix on the other hand is just there sometimes and he has nothing of note to say most of the time. DD also struggles to justify his presence, i mean his debut case after getting his badge back was turned to optional DLC. why is he even there? Because Edgeworth asked him to help with the phantom? Because he had a feeling he'll "be needed in the courts against soon"? Show us why he's there besides just empty talk Speaking of Edgeworth Your point about facing off with Edgeworth is great and it's something i feel myself as a fan even moreso considering that 6 year gap. Your point about new players maybe not feeling the same i think addds to DD's clear lack of identity and what it wants to be. I think another part of why DD feels so hollow is through its main villain The Phantom, ignoring how he's characterized for now, how they use him feels empty to me, they pretty much use him as a scapegoat for everything and "the dark age of the law" ends with him somehow?? How hes integrated also feels like an afterthought, the reason that organization hired him, his effect as a spy etc it all is never elaborated upon, and you could say that it's intentional and he's left to be ambiguous and why he's there isn't important but his lack of ANYTHING makes him feel more like an afterthought and the fact that they wasted Bobby, who was an actual character for him just really irks me especially with their justification of "haha he was just pretending cuz hes so good at his job!!" And everyone immediately turns on him. Betrayal can be powerful and emotional but in this instance it just makes me feel disappointed and it irks me how they wasted him. I ragged on DD a lot because it is my least favourite entry but it still has stuff i genuinely love and i don't really *hate* it either Blackquill is one of my fav characters and my 2nd fav prosecutor, Aura is great, Athena is great i enjoy her approach to cases she's a ton of fun and i love her dynamic with Apollo, Apollo's faith and doubt speech was great, Cosmic is genuinely a good case and i liked the way it connected to Countdown, The confrontation with The Phantom was really interesting and has the best uses of the game's mechanics, Academy has a fun cast, the 3D retained most of the best of the *feel* of the 2D sprites and they worked a lot for that and while the 3D wasn't completely there yet it provided a solid base for later entiries to build on top of and refine to make the best of both worlds and finally needless to say the OST is incredible. I rambled a LOOOOOOOOOT but another excellent vid from you! I've been subbed for a while and it's great to see you more active and maintain this level of quality! Keep up the great work and i hope you can talk about the series more in the future! Also your cats are the best! please pet em for me!!
Thanks a million for taking the time to leave your thoughts; I couldn’t agree more with you. A lot of what happens in Dual Destinies doesn’t feel consequential for one reason or another and twists happen for the sake of happening, rather than naturally occurring as a result of character motivations.
I really enjoy them, however the confrontations sometimes feel a little drawn out with the characters talking in circles. Overall though, I think they’re solid, especially the second game.
the things that i liked of dual destinies was watching a little of apollo's past and his best friends, it really maked me sad looking how apollo just collapsed in the trials and seem so distant of phoenix and athena. but also i wanted seeing more of Clay Terran, his potential of character was a lot.
Now that you mentioned it, I think Clay Terran would've been another side character in AJ, or at least given just a teensy lil' hint about him in Apollo Justice's game since the game was to, well, delve on Apollo aka the main protag's arc and maybe his backstory so that that backstory continues to DD and then SOJ. It doesn't make sense when Clay was brought up only to die in the same game lol.
that also reminds me of mia situation, but at least mia after her death was still appearing in moments when phoenix was like ''ok im fucked up'', for at least 3 games, the games in this situation gives u TIME to know more about the character and her past too, or with gregory edgeworth in miles investigations II. but yeah in dual destinies with Clay Terran was like ''Look!, seems like a pretty good character and a lot of potential!!! well too bad because he's dead :D'' ;_;
My friend got me into the series, I got so sucked into the world, and loved pretty much every game, including Dual Destinies which is one of my favorites honestly. My friend actually considers DD to be his second favorite, behind Trials and Tribulations. I loved the characters as well as the story, I thought it did a great job with reintroducing a more experienced lawyer in Phoenix Wright, while bringing Apollo to his lowest, similar to how Phoenix was brought to his lowest in AJ, though, I loved how his story was expanded upon in SoJ and pretty much completed, I really loved Athena, her story and reason for becoming a Defense Attorney was both shocking and heartwarming. I've played it several times since, and enjoy it just as much as I did the first time through.
I’m glad the game resonated with you so much. I’m always curious to see what order other people play the games in and how it affects their liking of the series.
If anyone still hasn't played the games, right now in the States the eShop is having a sale. You can literally get Dual Destinies for less that 10 bucks. The rest of the series is also on sale. Just wanted to let everyone know 😁
though most of dual destinies cases aren't very memorable for me (looking at you case 2) I think the way that they wrapped up the game was just amazing, especially the build up to the last culprit, I did not see it coming *at all*
@@JacksMelancholy well tobehonst i think i liked almost all the Cases .... well actually i liked all of them its definutley one of my favourite games from the series way more liked then Apollo Justice
I wish I had something to discuss about what you said, but I pretty much agree with everything. Other than that, I love that you’re making Ace Attorney videos! I’ve been a huge fan for about 4 years now and it’s absolutely my favourite game series of all time. Since I love watching analysis videos of movies, games, etc., it’s even better when it’s about something I’m SUPER passionate about.
I always felt like DD got a lot of unwarranted hate, but this video did a great job at explaining why some people don't like it. As for me, it's my 3rd favourite game in the series after trials and tribulations and spirit of justice. I agree that the game felt a little overstuffed with 3 attorneys including one that had been introduced last game and a lawyer introduced in this game as well as the return of the king, but I feel like the game handled the balance pretty well. There are at least 2 cases where you get to play as each of the attorneys. I think Phoenix had a bit too much focus but that's a small thing I feel considering he's always great. Plus Apollo and Athena both had very interesting plotlines that converged amazingly in the final case. The dark age of the law was perhaps underutilized, but I still found the age being overcome in the final case to be very satisfying. But as for everything else, I love almost all of it. Athena is incredibly endearing and probably my 2nd favourite defense attorney after the obvious 1st. I also really love Simon, and the payoff to their relationship in case 5 was really sweet to me. Edgy Apollo I think is pretty controversial, but I loved him and think he had good reason to be the way he was for most of the game. Plus, other than the first 2 cases, every case was fantastic. Reclaimed and academy are wacky and weird and hilarious and charming and filled with entertaining twists and turns. They're basically the pinnacle of the more fillery cases (case 3 does have relevant plot points but for the most part it's just a hillarious fun time). The relationship between the 3 friends in academy was something I really loved, and the case had one of the funniest sequences in ace attorney with the Athena posing as a statue part. case 4 does sort of stand in the shadow of case 5, but I thought it was really interesting and made me curious about what the heck was going on, and I thought Apollo's relation to Terran was developed well enough to make me invested, and I remember crying during one of the flashback scenes to his childhood with him. And case 5 was really really intense emotional and engaging, and the phantom was a great villain. Sure he wasn't fleshed out but he's not supposed to be. He's a phantom afterall. The mysterious all powerful aura he had I think was maintained well with him staying aloof. And the black psyche lock moment with Athena right before the final day was one of the best moments in the ace attorney series. Those blank eyes still give me chills. I also love the models just like you, and think the soundtrack is one of the best. I really liked the mood matrix, and the combo of all 3 powers was cool. All around, while some of the overarching elements don't come together as smoothly as in games like trials and tribulations or spirit of justice or investigations 2 or even the original ace attorney, the many highs of the game are some of the highest highs in the series, and it still does come together very well overall.
I feel very similarly to you. Analyzing the story, it’s easy to pick it apart and highlight its shortcomings, however I still felt happy to see the final case come to a close. I also think Athena is quite endearing and hope to see her developed a little more in future games.
When I actually played DD, I was HEAVILY BIASED AGAINST AJ. I _really_ hated Hobonix because we had no idea why and HOW he came to be, we got little to no background on the 7 years, I hated how this amazing character had jaded over like the opposite of what he used to be. I hated Trucy because i blamed her for presenting forged evidence to Phoenix, resulting Phoenix losing his badge (I like her now though). I hated that they made Ema lose all her hope, although I liked her interactions. I really disliked the investigations in some cases (the magic panties..come on..). So when they originally reverted them to the same dorks, etc etc, me, blinded by my bias, _loved_ it. But now that I replayed it, I completely agree with you, thank you!
I fucking loved the plot of Dual Destinies. The reason it will not stick in my mind nearly as much as the trilogy is the soundtrack. It was a natural progression but damn I could listen to the soundtracks for hours on end.
I had an interesting order with how I played the series. I went 1, 2, 3, 5, 4, 6. First five on iOS, which is why the order was a little funny there, and then 6 on my 3ds. A big part of what I think set apart the original trilogy from the new was the newly introduced mechanics, and the lacklustre way they brought back some others. For example, DD was when I first saw the power of Apollo’s bracelet, but I then when I saw how it was originally implemented, it felt like it got much easier in DD. I found picking out tells in AA:AJ way harder. But then I got the reverse when it came to the Magatama ability. I loved the complexity and foreshadowing the Magatama produced in the original trilogy. You found a witness acting shady, so you go out and find more clues so you can break them later. But the new Magatama puzzle could all be broken immediately, which took away some of the fun. And while I’m here, I guess I found the Mood Matrix new and interesting, and the Divination Seance quite challenging. But to put a button on my thoughts of DD. I love it. Dunno if I think it’s the weakest, but I loved the final case and think Blackquill might be my favourite prosecutor.
in all honesty i forgot so much about dual destinies that when i played spirit of justice less than a year later i thought the DLC case was the first time phoenix and edgeworth have faced off since the OG trilogy. it could be because of the time gap where i didnt play the games for a while but i find myself forgetting so much about dual destinies that i didnt forget about other games. i don’t remember disliking it when i was playing it, but it never felt like there was anything to really latch onto while playing it and as a result i’m constantly finding myself having to research the lore of dual destinies just to remember what happened
Awesome video ! You really addressed most of my gripes with the game. I still think we got some fun characters out of it but I don't see myself revisiting it anytime soon. That being said another fault I had with it in hindsight is the lack of continuity in terms of characters. Not just Trucy, Klavier, etc. But something the original trilogy and Investigations accomplished with the rotation of background characters was it made Japanifornia feel very lived in. I think an AA4 sequel could've continued in the same way. Without that, Dual Destinies just ended up feeling not quite right 😅
Thank you kindly! You’re right, the game wanted to do its own thing, while also bringing along a whole lot of characters from the older games and ultimately didn’t give them anything to do.
Athena Cykes is my favourite character (probably because I studied Psychology and absolutely love the Mood Matrix). I honestly had no idea people didn’t like her!
I think the one at fault here is CAPCOM. We know that Yamazaki is good from investigations 2 (that is probably my 2nd or 3rd favourite), but due to being forced to follow Shu's Apollo Justice storyline and probably being forced by CAPCOM to make a new gameplay gimmick (seriously, who plays ace attorney for the GAMEPLAY), resulted in this, and even then, all things considered, the game was okay. Definitely the most mediocre ace attorney game, I also hate the fact that they just abandoned the goldmine of potential Apollo Justice's characters. I want a spin with Klavier and Trucy discovering their past with miles as their mentor and help from Kay and Raymond. It may be a bad idea, but I'd love a good investigations game again.
It’s pretty good! I think it’s probably the most consistent game in the series I’ve played so far (1-5 atm). It never reaches the high highs of stuff like jfa or aa1, but it never gets as bad as jfa or apollo Justice. It has problems, but yeah, it’s fun. Case 5 especially is pretty great, and as always the music is great
Started playing the first game, moved to dgs and then continued with the trilogy to jump straight to starting AA5 and AJ simultaneously. AA5 was way more fun to me, of course it was easy, but considering the time I had available to play it, it was comfortable to play through and way harder to get stuck which could be annoying at times. Even though the characters had interesting concepts to me, they fell out flat at some parts, but being honest, it's something that has happened over all the games this far and not only with dual destinies. How they handled Athena's trauma and sensitive auditory issues were as nice as Edgeworth's counterpart. Sadly I can't remember it well, but the chronological order of the cases kinda messed it up at some point. Having Phoenix was a bit too much since he didn't have a real connection to the final case but I kinda liked his dad like personality towards Athena and Apollo. I think the game would have been real nice for both of them only, Athena makes damn sense for an assistant being an actual layer and their dynamic, thus similar to Trucy, felt less annoying to me (I love Trucy but there were some moments she was just... Overwhelming to me.) I didn't like Blackquill at first because of his, evident overly-edgy appearance, but his character came out decent at best. He is not my favorite prosecutor or even near, but he was fun enough, had his moments and his dynamic with Athena was interesting. I would've loved to see more of them interacting or some hints to their relationship more than "I'm doing this for someone" and then forgetting about it. Simon and Fulbright's relationship was interesting as well, which makes me consider that the fulbright-blackquill-cykes trio was meant to be but they had to make room for the classic cast, as the new additions compliment each other nicely. The music was sick and holds some of my favorite tracks from the franchise. The order of the cases felt confusing, and the twist didn't feel flat to me, but unsatisfying. Similar to Shelly the killer from AA2 (not counting AI games) I felt like we learned nothing of the Phantom or Shelly's real context or more than a rough idea of how they operate, the former being a way more grave and unsatisfying hole than the later as his methods were PART of the trial logic, at least. Phantom felt way too comical at the end, basically ruining the corrupted/emotionless human that sounds great in paper but kinda wacky going back to how it was executed. I enjoyed using the mood matrix on him, but personally I really liked how he kept up with Fulbright's character even when everything was pretty much clear. I was expecting him to give up earlier and considering I really liked Fulbright, he even kinda warmed my heart as much as I knew he was the Phantom all the way. He believed it to some point after taking his identity for that long, mixed with some kind of bad improvisation, which taking in account that he basically already messed up a few times, gave me a stronger impression of that supposed "fear" the game tries to unsuccessfully convey at the end of the case. I'm not particularly bothered by him being shot at the end, but considering we know nothing even though he survived he could have perfectly died too. The game is nice, I love it to bits, but it's lacking and has so many unsatisfying parts at the end fells incomplete. But it had great moments, maybe too rough on the edges but great nonetheless. Non-related but Fulbright's japanese phrase "If you ever find yourself in trouble, call for me, Justice is our secret word!" is way more memorable to me than his English counterpart, may sound way too childish or vague, but I find it kinda adorable :) I really appreciate the switch from a plain 'justice' yell in Japanese to a motto in-game in english, though.
I love the passion you express with these games. It makes everything you say so engaging. I personally really liked Dual Destinies. I liked the imagery provided in the mood matrix parts of the game. The plot twist of Athena being her mother’s killer and that image of her smiling with blood splattered on her face chilled me to the bone. I love the characters and the soundtrack. It’s rough around the edges but still a fantastic game IMO.
I really appreciate you taking your time to leave your comment, thank you. The Mood Matrix is a fun mechanic and despite it falling flat a couple times here and there, it overall added to Dual Destinies, giving it a unique edge over other entries.
@@JacksMelancholy I discovered your channel yesterday and I subscribed on the first video I saw which was the hobo Phoenix Wright video. I’m looking forward to hear more of your thoughts and curious to see what you think of Spirits of Justice (I think that’s the one after DD). Still hoping for the Great Ace Attorney to come to the west.
I would argue about the models, for me they felt awkward and overexaggerated, which is only accentuates the existing problem of it feeling like a drama despite having the story of a tragedy. The animations just made it feel so fake and ridiculous. Though the animation is mostly a problem with the attorneys, Blackquill is awesome (both as a character and his animations, even if I called the twist that he was innocent from the moment he appeared)
Dual Destinies was my first AA game! Fpr that alone it (and Athena) have a very special place in my heart. I just finished playing through the trilogy and Apollo Justice so now I can't wait to revisit DD with all the knowledge of the backstories. Let's see how it holds up
I genuinely really enjoy Dual Destinies! It was wild enough but not too wild *cough 6-5 *coughbu I absolutely adore Athena and still think she should get her own game because as you said the focus is a bit strained in DD. She gets one really good case in Turnabout Academy and another decent one that was pretty enjoyable in SoJ with Turnabout Storyteller. Another point of Athena poggin is the Mood Matrix itself! A fun minigame but could I see how some people see it 1 Dimensional? I mean I guess? But my main argument against that is 5-5's Mood Matrixes. Simon Blackquill's overload immediately caught my interest. BUT THE PHANTOM'S WAS PHENOMENAL! It really made the Phantom seem like an actual threat. That was so cool! I do think it could be better of course! You've made some really good points and I appreciate the fresh POV.
I feel like I can't like this game because of the stupid phantom plot twist, it almost feels like a personal vendetta. When we were first introduced to Bobby Fulbright, he was such a lively, outgoing, fun character, and quickly became my favorite in the series. Then when the final case rolled around and revealed that not only was he the villain, but he was dead the entire time and the detective you've been interacting with the entire game was just an imposter was absolutely devastating for me. That probably sounds a bit petty, but it's hard for me to acknowledge the good things in this game simply due to how they valued a dumb plot twist over an interesting character. Speaking of, Turnabout for Tomorrow definitely fell short for me not only because of that dumb plot twist. I thought that there would've been a third investigation and trial regarding the phantom, who he was, who hired him, and what else that company has done that's worthy of being prosecuted. Instead, the phantom remained an emotionless killer with no personality or motives of his own and we didn't even get to learn any background from him. He was literally just a gimmick to see what new thing they could do with the Mood Matrix. This is even worse when you take into account how great the first half of the trial was with Blackquill and Athena's history. They had something interesting going on, but didn't tie in any of the loose ends they left at the end which obviously wouldn't be explored in later games.
I don’t think it’s petty; I think that’s the effect the writers were going for. The plot twists do seem rather convoluted, unfortunately. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Thanks a lot, I appreciate your support and DR music does indeed slap. Got a slightly longer project coming out very soon regarding a rookie Japanese lawyer in early 20th century London…
the thing abt squandered pottential i rly agree with, there was a lot going on that couldve been so cool and fun to see but the execution falls flat the fact that they cant outright reference past cases also feels like it rly hindered things from a character perspective, trucy and apollo still not knowing they're siblings was something that disappointed me *a lot*, klavier not even hinting at the fact that his own brother was just a massive bastard felt weird considering he was there specifically during the academy case, etc etc
They truly looked at Apollo Justice and decided to abandon the vibes that game set up. It had the potential to be a whole new series with a different feel, but instead they played it safe.
I honestly loved all the games, I came pretty late to the hype train and played from the original up to apollo justice in 2015-2016, 2 years later I got the Dual Destinies on my iPad and truly enjoyed it from start to end, I do agree that this one is the easiest one but that did not hold me from enjoying the story that man, I loved, especially with Athena's character (yeah she deserves her own entry) and how she ended up being a jey part of the story, plus the last trial was amazing from beginning to end, yeah the phantom isn't a villain with true presence but Booby Fulbright was a brand new detective that truly had a remarkable personality "IN JUSTICE WE TRUST!" and the twist of him being a being with literally no personality perfect to kill was just an amazing plot twist, literally the only flaw with him was that in the end, he was afraid that let to his demise but still it was a great story through and through. My favourite on the series is Apollo Justice but Dual Destinies is still a solid game nonetheless with the charm of Ace Attorney
I’m really glad that AJ and DD resonated with you so much; I think due to the fact I was exposed to the original trilogy, my expectations were a little higher. Still, I enjoyed both entries.
Dual Destinies is second only to Trials and Tribulations for me. I know it’s far from the perfect game but I really enjoy it. I like Athena as a new character and love the mood matrix. Simon Blackquill is probably my 3rd favorite prosecutor, behind Edgeworth and Godot. The Academy case was the shining jewel of the game for me, and while the finally and Phantom twist was a bit predictable and could’ve been better, I still loved the mood matrix with no emotions showing. That moment was super cool for me. I also love that Apollo got some good character development. Overall it’s definitely one of my favorites
I’m glad the game resonated with you so much; there’s certainly a lot to love, especially how endearing the characters are. Haven’t seen anyone argue that Blackquill isn’t a fantastic prosecutor.
Well, I guess then I am different than other AA fans, since AA5 is my favourite game of the series. From the characters, through locations and trials themselves (Maybe with mixed feelings about second one, but hey). And the cherry on top, which for me is Athena Cykes. I just love Athena from her design and character through her sprites and positive energy she brings. And Blackquill is also really good, well written and interesting Prosecutor compared to Klavier... Generally compared to previous and next game I favor DD for sure... Especially with exclusion of Athena as a main defense attorney. And no, I don't mention SoJ Chapter 4. It is not a chapter, it is a crime against Athena :V
I’m also a big fan of Athena’s design and agree that the second case is probably the weakest. If she got her own game to shine, I feel she could really come into her own.
I think it's a very good game with some serious flaws. The biggest two being how poorly it follows up Apollo Justice (if you're going to get rid of the Jurist System, the least you could do is mention what happened to it) and how much "tell, don't show" it has to its story, especially with the dark age of the law thread. I still enjoy it as a game because it has some good characters (Blackquill being the highlight), but it falls flat to me as part of the series. But as I always say, there is no truly bad Ace Attorney game.
Well to be honest I only truly liked Turnabout Academy from DD (and comeback of Edgeworth) For me DD IS definitely the weakest game in franchise but I have to admit it was mostly influced by how they handled the ending of the last case (phantom cough phantom). To be honest I do liked Athena and Simon as characters and their background so I guess when I think of DD I only complain about its execution than writing
I feel pretty much the same way. Wish that Athena and Simon had more time and more unique circumstances to really come into their own. At least Apollo seems to have been given that treatment in Spirit of Justice.
Especially after SOJ. I liked SOJ (though it gave Apollo too much). However, I hate what Capcom did to Athena in SOJ. It gave her one case, just like in DD, but the one case she received was unimportant, filler, and dismal. Apparently, Japanese fans hate Athena and worship Apollo's horns, which explains why Capcom handled Apollo and Athena the way they did in SOJ. I also am probably not the only person who found the role reversal between Phoenix and Apollo quite strange (trying to avoid spoilers in case you haven't played SOJ yet).
@@greninjamastergabe6452 I think it makes sense for Apollo to get the main spotlight especially because it would likely be his last main line game appearance for a while, I think making Athena a full fledged lawyer and going "here's the third protagonist" in DD was a bit pre-emptive and instead of coming up with a good reason why Athena isn't taking on many cases in a way that felt natural, they instead are like "remember our third character, well we need to give her a filler case to remind people she exists". Honestly if in DD, she was given a title of apprentice of begginer, then it might explain how in most scenarios she gets passed over for the more level headed attorney's, a title can do a lot, but idk
Dual Destinies is honestly a lot better than I’ve been giving it credit for years. There’s so much that’s enjoyable and downright impressive about the story, it just also happens to fall flat in some crucial places. Still, I appreciate it a lot more these days.
I feel like theres so many 'main characters' that the story revolves around now, im kinda missing when Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney was about Phoenix Wright being an Ace Attorney
I just feel like the entry is a massive hit against the series longevity. It pulled the phoenix returns card the game after he left and even in apollo justice he was mostly present. And they do it in the literal first case as well. I feel like they should have waited one more game and saved his return for a more dire moment and it could be one of the best moments in the entire series. Because of phoenixs early return apollos story feels to rushed. It's basically the equivalent of if mia came back to life after the first game. It just leaves not enough time for apollo to do his own thing. Athena's nice but they're really isn't enough time for her to be doing her own thing with all the other plot lines going on. I think we needed at least once more apollo game and these problems would be gone.
@@yagirlmayalazarus6713 yeah she did. But imagine if she was actually alive and was playable in the magority of cases. It would eat up a ton of time that was used to develop Phoenix. Aka the same thing that happened to apollo by Phoenix coming back.
It's funny how you mention all this. I thought it was a great game with its fun characters, gorgeous 3D animations, and engaging plot twists. The beginning trials might have been slow for experienced players, but it felt like the right pace of action for someone who didn't play the ace attorney games for a long time. But after watching your video, I agree with all your points: my review doesn't consider the games that already exist in the franchise, and the killers were flat in their motivations. Good news is that if you thought this was the lower end of the franchise, then that would mean that I would enjoy the other Ace Attorney games even more.
Dual Destinies is actually my favorite game. Sure, it has flaws definitely but I love it to bits. Athena is best girl. The stand-off with Phoenix and Edgeworth gave me chills, It has my favorite soundtrack in the whole series. Putting Apollo at odds with Phoenix was great thematically. The Game is gorgeous, start to finished. Dual Destinies was great. It was the first game in the series I played all the way through and it has only been reached in my eyes by Trials and Tribulations. To be fair though, TnT had 3 games of set-up for its most hard-hitting moments where Dual Destinies had one.
My thoughts on Dual Destinies have been mixed. I recognize the issues with it, but I still love the hype moments it provide, especially when “Pursuit” would play! It’s also technically my first Ace Attorney game. I say technically because I played the first case when the game came out on iOS, and while I really enjoyed it, I felt like there was a lot I was missing in terms of the story and characters, so I downloaded the HD version of the original trilogy and proceeded to play the entire series in release order. That includes Investigations 2 btw. After a few months, I finally returned to Dual Destinies and finished the game. With such a long wait, it felt like there was a lot of expectations for it to live up to. I vaguely remember being tearful by the end, so I’d say it succeeded. Like you, it hasn’t stuck with me as much as the other games, but it’s the entire reason why I got into Ace Attorney and became a part of this community, and by extension, ended up finding your channel, so I’ll always love it for that!
I agree. When the cases in Dual Destinies reach their climactic conclusions, it’s hard not to get swept up in all the excitement. Glad the series means so much to you and thanks a lot for your support.
Something I personally feel wasn't given the love it should've, was the abilities Phoenix and Apollo had. Whenever the prompt to use the magatama or bracelet appeared, it felt more like a, "Remember this from the previous games?" than a mechanic that was important to progressing through the game. Apollo outright being denied his ability to use it in court being the most biting example in my opinion
Right? The sections were automatic and you didn’t have to deduce as much as before to break the witness. After introducing so many abilities, none have really had the chance to be developed a whole lot.
Are you done making videos? I find your ace attorney videos to be super fascinating; there’s so few people who sit down and analyze a game or character like this in this franchise. It’d be really cool to hear your thoughts on more aspects of the series or character analysis like your AJ Phoenix vid. I get if you’re too busy/unmotivated but it’d be cool to see more. Regardless, hope you’re doing well.
Thanks for leaving a comment; I really appreciate your support. I’m definitely planning to talk more about the Ace Attorney series very soon, but my life has been a little hectic.
Thanks a million, I appreciate your support. Perhaps I’d give that a shot; got a slightly longer project lined up to come out very soon regarding a rookie Japanese lawyer in early 20th century London…
I give this game a 7/10 I feel they could have done a little more with it The first case was decent, I liked Ted Tonate as a character The second case was average at best. It seemed to be all over the place I really liked the 3rd case. Usually the 3rd case is the weakest case in a Phoenix Wright game but I actually liked this case more than the 2nd case The 4th & 5th cases leave something to be desired. I truly feel the developers backed themselves into a corner with these cases and resorted to using a "Phantom" as the culprit as a way to wrap things up What I feel they should have done is the 4th case should have been the trial where Simon Blackquill gets charged with murder, and you play through the trial to ultimately see Simon get his guilty verdict. I felt the developers could have found a way to make this happen Then they could have combined cases 4 & 5 into one giant case Overall, a decent game but it just didn't leave a great impression on me
I really appreciate how reasonable, organized, and well-researched your approach is to these videos. Great to have some quality discussion surrounding this great series. I especially appreciate that you never fall into the trap of “I hate this!!! Who made this game??? This decision the devs made was stupid and I don’t feel like explaining myself!” Good stuff. I can’t say I don’t wish they did a bit more to acknowledge the events of the previous game. However, this was actually my introduction to the series, so I’ve never really had too much issue with it because it more or less set the mold for me. It definitely has its flaws and I can see that now, but I don’t hate it at all. I especially love the soundtrack, and I appreciate that it transitioned the series to 3D pretty faithfully. Anime cutscenes are awesome too.
I kind of agree with most of what you said. However, I think that one thing that always bugged me off about Dual Destinies is how it feels like watching an anime rather than playing an actual game. And I'm saying this because there are multiple elements contributing to it: the even more exaggerated and two-dimensional characters, the so-stereotypically anime locations of the 2nd and 3rd chapters, blackquill, Fulbright, which I think you fail to care about throughout the game and so the final twist becomes basically boring. The only time I felt somehow emotionally involved was for Athena and Blackquill, because they seem to be the only ones who actually talk about guilt, sadness. Apollo becomes a pirate dickhead whose reasoning to become one seems weird even after it is finally explained, the friendship highschooler trio is just an anime trope, Ted Tonate seems to feel the least bit guilty about what he's done, and so does LeBelle. It's actually a bit amusing that a game which has as a recurring theme psychology fails so miserably in that area (ie. thinking just about the first game: I empathised with Maya and I wanted to get the killer guilty, I understood the pain of Dee Vasquez, I empathised with Edgeworth like with Maya... in all of these cases the characters feel guilt, sadneed, and thus also feel believable). I still need to play SoJ. But boy do I hope that it is as good as basically any other AA game or spinoff
Pretty much everything you said is on point, but Dual Destinies is my first Ace Attorney game. And it has a special place in my heart because it's what introduced me to the entire series. I still much prefer Dual Destinies over the original first two games in the series. But it is flawed, and to deny that is to make Dual Destinies something that it isn't.
I’ve seen similar sentiments down below and I’m glad this game has had that impact on some people; if DD is your favorite, don’t let anyone take that away from you.
I don't disagree with anything you said in this video. BUT. I got sooo many chills when I realised that [SPOILER] was the big bad. Did it, like, make all the sense in the world? I mean, not really, but I really liked the guy and I think that was the twist that affected me the most, through all the games. (Besides maybe the ending to T&T. It's hard for anything to look good compared to that game.)
I loved playing it for the first time. One recuring character in particular was so fun I had a blast playing it despite being way more obvious and easy than any other entry in the serie. I was so bummed when I learned this character wouldn't be in any other game tho. Even today, that character is the only reason I can see myself go back on this game. I agree with everything you said about the last case. The twist ruined this character because it was written before. I still want to like this game but there is too many flaws. If I had to list the qualities I'd say : - Music - Apollo small character developpement - That character And that's about it. Even the DLC case was good but I didn't enjoy it since I did it after case 5
This is a wonderful video you made that I keep coming back to. Dual Destinies is my least favourite Ace Attorney title, yet I enjoy it and it's characters quite a bit. I would have preferred it if Phoenix had less screentime during the final two cases, since he was the person who had little to no emotional ties to case 5 at all. Speaking of Phoenix, him deviating from his Hobo Persona is something that left a bitter taste in my mouth. While I completely agree with your take on his character not having reverted to his T&T Persona, I feel like this Phoenix is an example of him 8 years after the trilogy itself - without Hobo Phoenix' Arc whatsoever. Yamazaki and his team completely ignored that part of his character (rightfully so, yet it is still something I cannot come in terms with). He doesn't seem like a Phoenix shortly after taking in Apollo and defeating Kristoph. His interactions conclude that he has only gained more experience in his profession - hence his professional behaviour on the crime scene. So, to conclude my point: Phoenix' previous Arc was skipped over and that is what left me unsatisfied, even if I enjoyed DD and the clashing of ideologies between Apollo and our dear Bluff master.
Thank you so much for your support. There's certainly a stark contrast between them, however I also feel that's in part to AA4 taking place from the perspective of Apollo. You're right about Athena and Apollo having a lot more on the line during the final two cases.
This is just me but I personally don't like the Ace Attorney games after Apollo Justice. (Not including the Miles Edgeworth games, Professor Layton crossover and the trilogy for this case) since dual destinies brought the new animation style, sound effects etc. Since I was far more accustomed to the more pixelated theme and sound effects they used before. Like the usual "Objection!", "Hold it!" etc. Edit: Nice cat you have there.
I feel the mood matrix could have been better implemented as an expansion of Apollo's ability(going from perceiving subtle body reactions in order to find the truth behind those actions to perceiving subtle emotional changes and discrepancies in order to find the truth behind those reactions) as that was stated by Apollo himself as one of his goals in the ending of Apollo Justice. It could've spurred Apollo's growth as it would allow him to become more personable with his clients and with people in general after the distrust shown to him all throughout the pervious game. Trust in his clients is one of the most important qualities that Apollo has to build if he wants to improve as a lawyer. This was a dilemma for him that is presented in this very game and through this change, I think it could've given it greater focus in the story and in Apollo's overall character arc. Just add that missed opportunity to the pile.
I actually recently played through Dual Destinies in its entirety. While I will say that I enjoyed most of what the game offered (especially the final cases and the DLC case), I will agree that a lot of the story beats felt very… all over the place as you said. Even in the final cases, there were parts where I feel more time could’ve been dedicated to them and while I love Athena Cykes as a character, it was sad seeing Apollo basically side-lined for most of the game (thankfully Spirit of Justice fixed that) My main take away from playing the game is honestly that I want AA7 to be “Athena Cykes: Ace Attorney”. She’s the only one of the main three that still needs a complete arc, not to mention the event where she and Phoenix met in Europe which is alluded to in Reclaimed and could make for a good flashback case if they absolutely Phoenix to be playable in some part. And if Trucy is Athena’s assistant, then they can work the Thalassa plot thread stuff into there too. I personally feel like that’s the way they really need to wrap up the series. Maybe even retroactively fix some problems with Dual Destinies story in the process (maybe bring up the Phantom again, giving him more depth). Who knows, just spitballing at this point. Anyways, great video as it was really thought provoking. Hope this comment finds you.
Thank you kindly. I agree and I think that similarly to Apollo Justice, the series needed to double down on new characters instead of trying to write ones that were so personal to the original creator of the series.
Much obliged, I really appreciate that. I’m definitely planning to talk about some things more in-depth in the near future. Your support motivates me to do more, thanks again. 🎶
Here’s hoping! I’d certainly have a lot to say. Those games really let the series explore a different kind of way to tell your typical Ace Attorney story.
The thing I love most about the AA games are the twists. The phantom twist was also pretty great. But the 2 orcas twist in the DLC mission just left me confused. I didn't see this one coming, but the reveal wasn't very appealing or welcoming for me either. Would love to know your views on this. Btw great video mate! 👍
I love Athena's character, she's the best thing about Dual Destinies for me, especially in Turnabout Academy (one of my favorite cases in the franchise) where she has a chance to shine. I'm one of the people waiting for an Athena Cykes : Ace Attorney. But else this game was either correct, either good, either really good (when it was really good it was REALLY good). There isn't really a bad case in this game, but I found case 2 and 4 (except near the end) boring.
Everyone's got a personal opinion. Personally I like ace attorney for because its of mystery genre. So my favourite games based on crimes are 1. Spirit of justice 2. Dual destinies 3. Apollo justice And based on story 1. Apollo justice 2. Dual destinies 3. Spirit of justice And based on plot twists 1. Dual destinies 2. Apollo justice 3. Spirit of justice Other games don't stand a chance thought I like them too. I didn't play original trilogy but rather watched anime. Maybe spin off games will be good, I am halfway on gyakuten kenji 1 and just started Dai gyakuten saiban. Also I am halfway in spirit of justice. I don't play, but watch walkthroughs like I am watching a show.
@@JacksMelancholy The main reason I got in the game because these are detective stories. I watched some detective animes such as Detective Conan, Kindaichi case files, Detective School Q, Death note etc. I was searching for another anime as it is very hard to find one, the given are the best ones I could find and thats how I got in the ace attorney anime and then into games. Tbh I like ace attorney because it involves courtroom, otherwise the above stated detective shows cases which are so mysterious, it won't let you sleep. For example-Murders where a body is found in a room with its key inside and is also locked inside, disappearing body from a locked room, and every monstrosity you can imagine.
I really like Dual Destinies but I will say that one change I would make.. Have Clay Terran featured in Case 2. Not only would it allow us to get to know him before his death in Case 4 but it would also make Case 2 feel more part of the story since the rest of it sort of feels like filler.
Incorporating Clay into the story early on would have given his case so much more impact and depth. (A lesson I feel they learned before going into Spirit of Justice.)
I think a big problem with DD is that it doesn’t make good on what came before or set up for what comes after. There’s so much from AA4 that is either just awkwardly there like Trucy and Apollo’s relationship or Klavier, or dropped entirely. And then SOJ just kinda…. Went off in its own direction which, idk, I can see why people liked it but I personally didn’t like Apollo’s new backstory. DD has a lot of good stuff! The characters are great, I LOVE Athena and Simon. It sets up a good look for the series going forward. I just wanted Apollo Justice 2 and we never got it
I constantly refer to AA5 as being potentially my least favorite game in the series. And yet, it's probably the one I've discussed the most at length for why I feel the way I do. I came to the game after having loved AA4, excited to see the next chapter of *Apollo's* journey. At the time I found it to be a slap in the face for seemingly doing whatever it could to backtrack on anything AA4 accomplished. While I agree, Phoenix didn't quite "revert to his old self" I feel he's a bit of a caricature of his personality over the years. I'm not quite against the idea of him getting his badge again, but I wish he had remained in the back seat as a mentor to the new attorneys. Like you discussed, the game lacks focus. I feel like a stronger focus could have been placed on Athena and Apollo's roles as the next generation, if the playable roster has been limited to those two and less on Phoenix's "great" return. I especially thought the Phantom's role felt contrived to me, and I think the way he goes out felt like a deus ex machina. I don't know if I necessarily want an Athena game, as I feel Dual Destinies should have been her game in the first place. But the game couldn't pick a lane. In general, I feel like this game's story might have been better suited as a spin-off simply titled "Athena Cykes: Ace Attorney". Of course, it's been nearly 7 years since I last did a full playthrough of the game in 2014. I've been quite curious how much my feelings would change on a revisit, if at all. There are quite a few things I like about this game. I love Athena and Blackquill as characters, I just wish they had been given a better story.
Replaying the game for this video, my feelings were definitely different from when I first played it too. If you recall liking the characters, I recommend giving the game another shot.
I’m actually replaying DD right now, and I think your assessment is 💯 spot on - the game lacked focus and a commitment to its myriad of choices. Which, as you said, is such a shame because it had so much potential. All of the characters (old and new) deserved better, and the final twist with the Phantom having been under their noses all along is bone-chilling in concept, but fell flat in execution, precisely because there was just too much else going on. And then, because the execution of it was so poor, those beats that they mimicked from the original trilogy came off as cheap imitations instead of well-done homages. And finally, the second case grates on my nerves more than just about any other from the whole series because it drags and the characters involved are only so-so. All of that said, I still do love the game anyway. Additionally, I recently happened to read a startlingly impressive fanfic series that expounded on Blackquill, Fulbright, and the Phantom in such a way that I now can’t help but see them with way more depth (though I already sort of felt that way about Blackquill), which makes playing DD far more enjoyable, but I don’t know if I ever would have if I hadn’t read it. I’m so glad I found your channel! Ace Attorney is my number one obsession these days and I could spend absolutely forever analyzing and discussing the series. Insta-subscribe, haha.
Thank you kindly, I’m glad you’re enjoying the series so much. Currently playing The Great Ace Attorney myself. Looking forward to sharing my thoughts on it in the near future. I really appreciate your support.
I honestly loved DD, the plot was well written for me and I liked the new characters. However, I think that if they wanted to make an AA game with three lawyers, the game should have way more then 6 cases in order to to get more character development, especially on Apollo and Athena. In the end, I would place the game in 4th place over Justice for all and the original game
The one thing that angers me about Dual Destinies is the idea of the "Dark Age of Law" in the Ace Attorney franchise. We already have atleast 3 other prosecutors who killed people before Simon, and Edgeworth had the nickname "demon attorney" because he would get these Guilty verdicts in unethical ways. Plus Edgeworth as a rookie was a bigger deal than Simon as a rookie. Phoenix allegedly forging evidence kind of makes sense. Yes, a legendary defense attorney with miraculous turnabouts would definitely cause waves. But I could argue about there have been unethical defense attorneys before him (Robert Hammond using the insanity plea, Calisto Yew killing the prosecutor and defendant in AAI). Hell, the premise of the first AA game is a better marker for the Dark Age of Law. DL-6 was a crazy media storm of everyone evolved, and SL-9 has the corruption of the police and the prosecutor office.
The Dark Age of the Law felt like a forced overarching narrative, that’s for sure. In the Ace Attorney universe, lawyers have been corrupt for years before DD.
My only problem I hade with Dual Destines and the other 3DS game is adding to Apollo‘s backstory and kinda making more complicated than it needed to be.
I enjoyed Dual Destinies but I really disliked Fulbright. Prior games rely on having some contact with the police (either from Gumshoe or Ema) where they are, above all else, earnest. In this entry it's really Wright and Co. vs the world and caused anything but courtroom segments to really drag. In Spirit of Justice we also feel the same way about having the odds stacked against Wright and Co. but it's intentional. But let's be real, facing off against Phoenix in that one case in SoJ was incredible and terrifying.
![ARGENTINA vs. PERÚ [1-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 12](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xtI25ENDDSY/mqdefault.jpg)
I wish we got a game that focussed more on Phoenix and Trucy's relationship. It feels like whenever one is involved in a case, the other is absent.
I'd love to see flashbacks to what Phoenix was doing when he lost his badge and being a single dad.
On the note of Flashbacks, I'd also love it if we could have a whole case (or more) of when Mia was a defence attorney and Phoenix was working/studying under her.
Agree with you
Please continue to talk about ace attorney. I’ll watch anything you put out.
But also I’d say many would want to know what you think of Ghost Trick
I’m so moved by your comment, thanks a million.
Your support definitely inspires me to share my thoughts on these games and then some.
Jack: *casually talks about Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies*
His cat: Ojyama shimasu
Rob is ruthless and always gets his way.
I’ve been wondering if anyone’s spotted the second (grey) cat in the video... She’s very shy.
@@JacksMelancholy i did
Not only was it splitting the game between 3 protagonists, they also neglected Ema, Klavier, and Trucy, whom were all top tier characters from the previous game, and got between no mention for whatever reason to assisting in one investigation segment.
Right? As a result, the whole cast were underutilized, which was such a shame. The DLC case works so well since it takes its time to focus on that particular cast and that’s why it’s so memorable.
I'm still pissed off over what they did to Trucy.
@@POP-nm1ix same
@@JacksMelancholy I really hate how Apollo Justice, Dual Destinies, and Spirit of Justice don't really try to build up a new recurring cast of characters and instead just have the Trilogy people return. I wanted to see Vera Misham again!
@@TheAzulmagia That's not really Apollo Justice's fault though. Apollo Justice is hurt by its sequels because it leaves a lot of questions unanswered (Machi's motive, Black Psyche-Locks, Gramayre family). People often criticize Apollo Justice for not having a developed cast of characters but forget that the original Ace Attorney only developed Edgeworth.
I love Simon Blackquill and honestly all of the prosecutors of the series are great characters. Even Payne. Even Sahdmadi
Sahdmadi gets overhated, he's not the most interesting Prosecutor, but at least he's a consistent character (which is more than I can say for Simon, whose arc doesn't really make sense) and is pretty imposing, which I think leads into what makes Spirit of Justice as good as it is.
@@peacorptv6502 The problem with Nahyuta is that he only shows doubt and changes until the very end of the game; the final case. It happened way too late and way too fast imo.
Especially considering the tragedy that unfolded in 6-3 due to the DC Act. Simon carried case 6-4 for me, but that case was a reset of his character for me :c
I decided to play Dual Destinies about a month ago after taking a little break from the series. I looooved seeing my favourite characters again. But it wasnt really all there. Athena is one of my favourite characters in the series, I love how she really struggles with her past but tries her very best.
Apollo was… disappointing. I found myself forgetting his personality. He was just edgy with no deeper meaning (at least for the first few cases.) Who the hell is Clay?! Why does he suddenly have this really close friend that we’d never even heard of?! I also really disliked how they abandoned Klavier. The relationship he and Apollo had was similar to that of Edgeworth and Phoenix, but still fresh with a new dynamic. When he turned up as a guest character in the school case, I lost my shit!! Like, thats my dude!! Hes back!!! But no he wasn’t, and wow there was nothing to his character than a face value impression of Klavier Gavin.
Phoenix was okay, but I found his sudden change to be quite jarring. I loved how he had seemingly matured with becoming a father in AJ. I love Nick, but I’d rather they focus on either new characters or old ones. You can’t really have both.
I haven’t finished SOJ yet, since DGS is my focus right now. I’m a little unmotivated to play it after DD though.
I gotta skedaddle, even though theres so much more I wanna say. Unfortunately school calls!
Klavier Gavin was seriously underused in DD and we’ve yet to see his relationship with Apollo (or anyone for that matter) deepen any further.
It’s quite unfortunate because he was a fresh take on prosecutors.
This dude really disappears then comes back all casually.
I’m The Phantom.
Im no strager to falling to L0VE
Dual Destinies, what can I say about it... It's a really amazing game. The 3D models are ambitious, but they're still cool. They've ruined the perceive mechanic a bit, as you can only present it while investigating, but they've made it up with Mood Matrix, a mechanic which even though is easy as you don't punished by missing it, it's fun. Turnabout Reclaimed seems gorgeus, even tho I haven't played it. It has the same problem with Apollo, I wish I could put it higher, but the majority of the games are just kinda better. But the cases, especially the final 3 cases... Turnabout Academy is one of the best in the series, and you play as Athena! The murder was really planned and just a treat to figure out, especially the "Hugh O'Conner" with "You're a goner" and the Phoenix Wright statue segments. The 4th turnabout is kind of forgettable, but still good, even if you don't arrest a culprit. But it was all a build-up for the final case...The characters? Great execution, like Aura and her robots with the hostage situation. The gameplay? Really good, the turnabouts and the think route segment is simply stellar. There was even the Mood Matrix and the quick perceive segment. The plot has some plot holes, but they're kind of small compared to the gameplay and twists, in my eyes. But the first 2 cases are just kind of boring, and as commented, they reveal the killer right away, and they are just not too memorable and annoying. It's worth it, but that's the weakness of the game for me. The soundtrack is just perfection. Athena is a great character, and I'm one of the people who just need a Athena game. But nonetheless, still a amazing game regardless, for me.
I’m also someone who enjoys Turnabout Academy, despite its shortcomings, it’s a really enjoyable case.
Hope you get the chance to play Turnabout Reclaimed, it’s such a joy.
futaba gaming
While I feel like Dual Destinies is probably the weakest AA game, I still liked it and think it's worth playing
Likewise.
That's what I love about the AA franchise. Even its weakest entry was still a lot of fun. I have enjoyed every single entry and that is something that you just simply can't say about most video game franchises.
I think it is worth playing but I find it to be the hardest to replay.
Then again, replaying AA games, when you do it right, is always like going to a school reunion. I vaguely remember the twists and turns and every time I recognize them it is like a pleasant little shot of nostalgia but by the end I realize it doesn’t mean as much now as it did then.
Weakest?! Have you played Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney? That game has a genuinely awfully written overarching narrative, terrible gameplay structure and bad pacing. It is by far the weakest game in the series.
@@botondkunos1774 [Is too afraid to say I liked it, and part of the reason for that being it keeps the nostalgic 2d style]
Honestly Dual Destinies is my favourite entry in the series, even to this day. I have fond memories of playing it in high school during free time or alone at night. I started playing it after I was fresh off of finishing Trials and Tribulations so it was my first time seeing Apollo in action and I think they nailed making him a great character, especially when compared to his debut game which I played through later. Also I really like how they tried to go for darker themes, not being afraid to show so much blood, and explore subjects like harsh trauma. Those kinds of moments really stand out to me the most and I feel more attachement to the characters involved.
I’m really glad that this game resonated with people like that. It’s always fascinating to hear how other people experienced the series.
Dual Destinies certainly did allow Apollo to come into his own a little more with Spirit of Justice doing an even greater job.
same
Dual Destinies
Japan - we love it
West - Arghhhhh
DGS
Japan - Arghhhh
West - WE LOVE IT
Long explanation coming so apologies in advance.
I understand the faults and complaints that everyone has with DD and I think this video did an excellent job highlighting them, but even with all that said DD still stands as
my favorite AA game. It could be the nostalgia talking since it was my first AA game played but I did recently playthrough all 6 AA games and the 2 AAi very recently and DD still
stands as my fav. The OST is my favorite in the whole franchise as I am a sucker for full orchestrated music and its just so good and they absolutely nailed the 3D models which is
something else I see a lot of hate about but will still love and defend them.
Most of the characters were done very well in my eyes. Phoenix's character is at his peak in this game with all the attributes from the trilogy and AA4 all coming together here.
He's truly mastered everything we've seen in the previous 4 games and the modern redesign they gave him was excellent. It was also so good to see him back as a lawyer which he
However with that being said I do think the times we see and play as him were portrayed well. That is until he tries to avenge Clay. I do agree just shoving Clay into they story with
next to no interaction does make it hard for the player to care about Clay and Apollo's motive but I got real invested the times and played the game and the clash between Phoenix
and Apollo in Case 5 is one my favorite moments in the franchise. I also really liked how Apollo spoked and acted like Kristoph to try and appear confident and sinister whale
trying to accuse Athena of being Clay's murderer. As for Athena I thought she was a good character to introduce even though I also agree it was a
little early, especially since AA4 had introduced Apollo. But I do think by the end of the game her character and goals were fleshed out enough. The mood matrix was a cool addition
that I liked and played well with the story with the themes of emotions and the psychology of people. Even though I do think her addiction drives the focus away from the other 2
which is annoying but I think what they did with her was great. It was also heartbreak to see her so distraught when she though she could've killed her mother and the added Black
Psyche-Locks just made it all the more intense, mysterious, and flat out scary since we only saw it one other time with Kristoph, it only made Turnabout for Tomorrow and even
better finally case in my eyes. Now for Simon Blackquill, I love Simon as a character and prosecutor in fact he's my second favorite prosecutor only losing out to Edgeworth
obviously. He's a perfect prosecutor taking all the best traits from the previous 4 and also bringing his own traits to the table. By Case 5 when using the mood matrix on Simon when finding out about the truth of the UR-1 incident was a heart pounding moment ending with one of the most notorious lines in the game. Also the chemistry Simon and Athena have is amazing and I wish it was fleshed out more than just the ladder parts of Case 5 and Case 4 of SoJ. Overall the characters in AA5 I found were to be well written, the main characters that is, there are some flaws of course and some older side characters were really forgotten about and just thrown in like Trucy, Klavier, and Maya. Although the newly introduced characters like Fulbright and Woods
were nicely written in to help the story, with Fulbright especially being one of my favorite characters in the franchise.
The cases in the game I thought did their jobs well. Sure Cases 2 and 3 serves as filler but as filler cases go I think there are some of the better ones in the series. Case 3
was very fun to play since it stars Athena and even if Means wasn't the best culprit and kept bashing the same line in you over and over again. It was also nice of them to bring back Klavier even if they didn't really do much with him. It was nice to see he was well after the events in AA4.
Cases 1, 4, and 5 with them being all connected to each other is something I always enjoy when AA games can pull it off like AAi 2. Case 1 being a pretty solid first case one of the better ones in the series. Showing Athena dark past, Phoenix's triumph return, the assault on Apollo, and the introduction of the mood matrix, Juniper Woods, and Gaspen Payne. Of course showing the culprit in the very beginning is something that always annoys me with all AA games but still taking him down was still fun and was just the was the beginning for cases 4 and 5. Those 2 cases gave me some the best times I've ever had in any AA game. The ending to case 4 and all of case 5 was filled to the brim with suspense that very few other cases could deliver. The twist with Fulbright had me in utter shock the first time it happened I simply couldn't believe one of my favorite characters to truly be
The Phantom. I know The Phantom can be seen a character
with so much mystery that it's boring but that mystery makes the character for me. As said in the video he's cold and I love him for that reason. The fact you never know his name or face adds on to it for me. And his breakdown on the old cliché of "who's the person behind the mask" is done in such a twisted and sick way was a twist I very much enjoyed, and of course the actual breakdown is on the best there is. As for his motives the initial attack on the space station may not be clear and the whole "confidential" part of it is a little cheesy but the follow up of him trying to self preservate himself and the scramble that ensues is his main motivation to me. The twist of the moon rock being in space for 7 year but only then to come back to earth to haunt The Phantom again is was such a badass moment. Of course I can still see and understand the arguments made about why The Phantom isn't held to the likes of other villains and how a lot of people couldn't get invested into a character that practically shows and has no character, and only acts like other people. I do think The Phantom works and does the job of a main villain well though and I can say he holds up to the great villains the series has. And for the DLC case it's such a fun one. The whole concept of defending an Orca was hilarious and the case specific characters and music was all done excellently. It's kind of a shame we never got more DLC cases I feel like that was an opportunity both games didn't take advantage of.
As for other smaller things the redesign of the courtroom is my favorite rendition of the 3, the grandness it's trying to give really show especially when paired the the 2013 version
of Court Begins. As for for the Psyche-lock and Perceive mechanics they definitely took a back seat to the Mood Matrix unfortunately. Mostly Perceive as it was used only like 2 and neither in cross
examinations or in any significant situation which is just a waste of time especially coming after AJ. As for Psyche-locks I kind of see it more of the mechanic just getting worn out and also Phoenix mastering the Magatama after all the events he went through in AA 2 ,3 and 4 so I kind of forgive its lack of penalty bar and relevancy. It could also just be Capcom not caring about and just trying to shoehorn in it for fan service.
To conclude cause I know I've rambled on for far too long so sorry for that I think AA5 just gets everything right for what I want in an AA game great story, characters, and overall presentation. I understand its criticism's and flaws but what they did and added makes it all up for me. I've never
really written something like this before and it probably shows I never had the opportunity to discuss AA5 like this and I'm just really passionate to talk about this game and series that I love so much. Again this is just my opinion I completely understand if you don't agree with me and I hope you understand where I'm coming from. Even if no one reads this it was nice to at the very least get all this off my chest. Also Jack if you're still reading this just want to way I recently found your channel and I've enjoyed all your videos. It's nice to see a channel still discussing AA and I hope to see more videos soon. Also AAi 1 is the worst/weakest AA game IMO.
Your experience is so intriguing to me; as I mentioned to a couple other people who have shared similar opinions, I always assumed that the game wouldn’t be the greatest for newcomers to the series, but you not only prove that isn’t the case, it’s also clear how much the game means to you.
I think that the second case in particular doesn’t hit the ground running as hard as it should have and despite a lot of people having gripes with case three, I enjoy it for what it is (whacky obvious villain aside).
The courtroom redesign and overall 3D look is quite appealing to me too. While the original sprites have their charm, this look suits the series for modern day systems.
Thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts and support; hope we can explore more aspects of the series in the near future.
@@JacksMelancholy Still remember playing it in 2013 and I enjoyed it just as much last year while doing a replay.
I do agree with you on Case 2, a case about Yokai and wrestlers should've been a lot better then what was delivered and it just didn't get the ball rolling.
The original sprites and look will always have there place and will always be iconic. But the graphical overhaul was a great change and one I'll always support.
Anytime man, it nice to find a space to discuss this stuff. Do hope we can continue talking more soon it was fun just writing these comments. Keep up the good work!
Excellent video!
Imo i think the reason why DD doesn't resonate with me is that nothing about it ever feels genuine or because it's something they wanted to actually use to tell the story, or even a story to tell for that matter.
The fact that they designed twists over everything, gimmicks over characters first, its over the top nature, not spoiling anything because people might replay previous games, it's easier structure and Phoenix's return without him having any real reason to be there or any personal stakes
It just feels hollow? It felt as if it's something to be marketed over something that makes it stronger or a good entry or maybe it's a misunderstanding of the series and the fans? I don't know exactly why but it feels empty.
Side note, during the first DD trailer Apollo is never once shown and it's mostly focused on the 3D, Phoenix's return and the new character Athena it's funny but also pretty sad
None of these are inherently *bad* like you said designing twists first can be a useful tool but in this case it's just more unfortunate because the build up to said twists feels so underwhelming that the twists themselves end up feeling even moreso.
I definitely get why this was done, it's been 6 years since the last mainline game, AJ has not been received the best at its time of release, it's a new engine on a new hardware, it's a NEW and MODERN Gyakuten Saiban! But that's what i feel like is what contributed to how hollow it feels to me, it's more a *new* entry than a *good* entry and now that it's neither one it's just, again, hollow
It also tended to present its conflicts as really simple issues like, take Means for example. While he is incredibly obvious and his ideals are never elaborated on apart from vague actions from the students that never really led anywhere and the buzzword catchphrase, there was some hope for him, he wasn't a caricature like L'Belle or a gimmick like Tonate, despite his unsubtle actions and dialouge there was some implication that while yes he was going to frame Juniper and save himself, he was gonna defend her and her friends later "by any means necessary" as he puts it but nope when you get to his confrontation he transforms into a caricature of a spartan and everyone makes fun of him while they play funny music and then Athena straight up just says he only did it for himself and he was just evil and "the embodiment of the dark age of the law" with zero tact and in your face. And after they arrest means they say something like "he was good once like Courte but he was corrupted by the dark age xD" and they go "damn we really needa end this dark age lol das crazy" just tells you without any nuance it feels insulting to me. DD has a serious problem with tell don't show imo
But of course the biggest factor to this feeling of hollowness is its titular character himself, Mr. Phoenix Wright.
There, playing Case 1 of Dual Destinies, it sets up a number of intrigue and questions and we get to play as a new lawyer determined to save her best friend but then she gets cornered, it's too much for her! And then OBJECTION! Phoenix Wright appears to save the day!
Yes this is a very strong hook considering the fact that it has been 6 years since the last mainline game and in said game, Apollo Justice, Phoenix wasn't in the best of state nor was he that well liked but what he did have was 10 years of experience and skill and thinking that we get to play as that veteran is a very strong hook and it maintains that hook for a while, Phoenix has such a massive presence, he's in control of the trial but then as the trial goes on he loses his grip and acts even more unprepared than ever and he has zero connection or motivation in the actual case because he's just taking over and this is i think a consistent problem with Phoenix in DD.
through the eyes of someone else Phoenix seems cooler and in the investigation segments where you play as him, he's not so bad but when you get to the trial segment it's such a jarring shift that it makes his prior appearances feel worse, this guy is a jarring blend of an attempt of a trilogy Phoenix and a veteran Phoenix that he feels like a guy wearing Phoenix's skin.
You could say that AJ Phoenix was also just an empty addition for marketing purposes but that Phoenix felt like he had to be there, there's a reason why he's there and a story they wanted to tell with him in it, and a place in this brand new saga that he otherwise had no place in which is what DD Phoenix is, he has no personal stakes in anything and when he does (his subordinate going AWOL and his own daughter getting kidnapped) he treats it more like a minor inconvenience. He's not a good mentor too because much like AJ he's mostly off screen and just watches from the gallery but AJ Phoenix was actively being a cryptic jerk to tell Apollo how to approach things on his own and his lack of presence is due to his "secret mission" DD Phoenix on the other hand is just there sometimes and he has nothing of note to say most of the time.
DD also struggles to justify his presence, i mean his debut case after getting his badge back was turned to optional DLC. why is he even there? Because Edgeworth asked him to help with the phantom? Because he had a feeling he'll "be needed in the courts against soon"? Show us why he's there besides just empty talk
Speaking of Edgeworth
Your point about facing off with Edgeworth is great and it's something i feel myself as a fan even moreso considering that 6 year gap. Your point about new players maybe not feeling the same i think addds to DD's clear lack of identity and what it wants to be.
I think another part of why DD feels so hollow is through its main villain The Phantom, ignoring how he's characterized for now, how they use him feels empty to me, they pretty much use him as a scapegoat for everything and "the dark age of the law" ends with him somehow??
How hes integrated also feels like an afterthought, the reason that organization hired him, his effect as a spy etc it all is never elaborated upon, and you could say that it's intentional and he's left to be ambiguous and why he's there isn't important but his lack of ANYTHING makes him feel more like an afterthought and the fact that they wasted Bobby, who was an actual character for him just really irks me especially with their justification of "haha he was just pretending cuz hes so good at his job!!" And everyone immediately turns on him. Betrayal can be powerful and emotional but in this instance it just makes me feel disappointed and it irks me how they wasted him.
I ragged on DD a lot because it is my least favourite entry but it still has stuff i genuinely love and i don't really *hate* it either
Blackquill is one of my fav characters and my 2nd fav prosecutor, Aura is great, Athena is great i enjoy her approach to cases she's a ton of fun and i love her dynamic with Apollo, Apollo's faith and doubt speech was great, Cosmic is genuinely a good case and i liked the way it connected to Countdown, The confrontation with The Phantom was really interesting and has the best uses of the game's mechanics, Academy has a fun cast, the 3D retained most of the best of the *feel* of the 2D sprites and they worked a lot for that and while the 3D wasn't completely there yet it provided a solid base for later entiries to build on top of and refine to make the best of both worlds and finally needless to say the OST is incredible.
I rambled a LOOOOOOOOOT but another excellent vid from you! I've been subbed for a while and it's great to see you more active and maintain this level of quality! Keep up the great work and i hope you can talk about the series more in the future!
Also your cats are the best! please pet em for me!!
Thanks a million for taking the time to leave your thoughts; I couldn’t agree more with you.
A lot of what happens in Dual Destinies doesn’t feel consequential for one reason or another and twists happen for the sake of happening, rather than naturally occurring as a result of character motivations.
@@JacksMelancholy and thank you for reading my massive comment and for the excellent video!!!
What about Investigations series? Just interesting what you think about Edgeworth's spin-offs
I really enjoy them, however the confrontations sometimes feel a little drawn out with the characters talking in circles.
Overall though, I think they’re solid, especially the second game.
@@JacksMelancholy Which Game is your favorite?
@@zio2329 Trials and Tribulations.
the things that i liked of dual destinies was watching a little of apollo's past and his best friends, it really maked me sad looking how apollo just collapsed in the trials and seem so distant of phoenix and athena. but also i wanted seeing more of Clay Terran, his potential of character was a lot.
Now that you mentioned it, I think Clay Terran would've been another side character in AJ, or at least given just a teensy lil' hint about him in Apollo Justice's game since the game was to, well, delve on Apollo aka the main protag's arc and maybe his backstory so that that backstory continues to DD and then SOJ. It doesn't make sense when Clay was brought up only to die in the same game lol.
@@skissors TRUE
that also reminds me of mia situation, but at least mia after her death was still appearing in moments when phoenix was like ''ok im fucked up'', for at least 3 games, the games in this situation gives u TIME to know more about the character and her past too, or with gregory edgeworth in miles investigations II.
but yeah in dual destinies with Clay Terran was like ''Look!, seems like a pretty good character and a lot of potential!!! well too bad because he's dead :D'' ;_;
Right? The series has a bad habit of introducing Apollo’s family and friends, only to have them get taken off the census.
My friend got me into the series, I got so sucked into the world, and loved pretty much every game, including Dual Destinies which is one of my favorites honestly. My friend actually considers DD to be his second favorite, behind Trials and Tribulations. I loved the characters as well as the story, I thought it did a great job with reintroducing a more experienced lawyer in Phoenix Wright, while bringing Apollo to his lowest, similar to how Phoenix was brought to his lowest in AJ, though, I loved how his story was expanded upon in SoJ and pretty much completed, I really loved Athena, her story and reason for becoming a Defense Attorney was both shocking and heartwarming. I've played it several times since, and enjoy it just as much as I did the first time through.
I’m glad the game resonated with you so much. I’m always curious to see what order other people play the games in and how it affects their liking of the series.
If anyone still hasn't played the games, right now in the States the eShop is having a sale.
You can literally get Dual Destinies for less that 10 bucks. The rest of the series is also on sale. Just wanted to let everyone know 😁
Appreciate the heads up.
though most of dual destinies cases aren't very memorable for me (looking at you case 2) I think the way that they wrapped up the game was just amazing, especially the build up to the last culprit, I did not see it coming *at all*
I agree with you. The ending seems to be the only part that most folks recall in greater detail when you ask them how they feel about Dual Destinies.
@@JacksMelancholy well tobehonst i think i liked almost all the Cases .... well actually i liked all of them its definutley one of my favourite games from the series way more liked then Apollo Justice
HE’S ALIVE OH WOW I WASN’T EXPECTING THAT XD
Same
I wish I had something to discuss about what you said, but I pretty much agree with everything.
Other than that, I love that you’re making Ace Attorney videos! I’ve been a huge fan for about 4 years now and it’s absolutely my favourite game series of all time. Since I love watching analysis videos of movies, games, etc., it’s even better when it’s about something I’m SUPER passionate about.
Thank you so much for your support; hope we can have more in depth discussions regarding the series.
Well I agree the story is convoluted I love everything else especially Athena I played the game only for Athena to be honest she NEEDS her own game
She truly got the short end of the stick when it came to Spirit of Justice and could use her own entry.
I always felt like DD got a lot of unwarranted hate, but this video did a great job at explaining why some people don't like it. As for me, it's my 3rd favourite game in the series after trials and tribulations and spirit of justice.
I agree that the game felt a little overstuffed with 3 attorneys including one that had been introduced last game and a lawyer introduced in this game as well as the return of the king, but I feel like the game handled the balance pretty well. There are at least 2 cases where you get to play as each of the attorneys. I think Phoenix had a bit too much focus but that's a small thing I feel considering he's always great. Plus Apollo and Athena both had very interesting plotlines that converged amazingly in the final case. The dark age of the law was perhaps underutilized, but I still found the age being overcome in the final case to be very satisfying.
But as for everything else, I love almost all of it. Athena is incredibly endearing and probably my 2nd favourite defense attorney after the obvious 1st. I also really love Simon, and the payoff to their relationship in case 5 was really sweet to me. Edgy Apollo I think is pretty controversial, but I loved him and think he had good reason to be the way he was for most of the game.
Plus, other than the first 2 cases, every case was fantastic. Reclaimed and academy are wacky and weird and hilarious and charming and filled with entertaining twists and turns. They're basically the pinnacle of the more fillery cases (case 3 does have relevant plot points but for the most part it's just a hillarious fun time). The relationship between the 3 friends in academy was something I really loved, and the case had one of the funniest sequences in ace attorney with the Athena posing as a statue part. case 4 does sort of stand in the shadow of case 5, but I thought it was really interesting and made me curious about what the heck was going on, and I thought Apollo's relation to Terran was developed well enough to make me invested, and I remember crying during one of the flashback scenes to his childhood with him. And case 5 was really really intense emotional and engaging, and the phantom was a great villain. Sure he wasn't fleshed out but he's not supposed to be. He's a phantom afterall. The mysterious all powerful aura he had I think was maintained well with him staying aloof. And the black psyche lock moment with Athena right before the final day was one of the best moments in the ace attorney series. Those blank eyes still give me chills.
I also love the models just like you, and think the soundtrack is one of the best. I really liked the mood matrix, and the combo of all 3 powers was cool. All around, while some of the overarching elements don't come together as smoothly as in games like trials and tribulations or spirit of justice or investigations 2 or even the original ace attorney, the many highs of the game are some of the highest highs in the series, and it still does come together very well overall.
I feel very similarly to you. Analyzing the story, it’s easy to pick it apart and highlight its shortcomings, however I still felt happy to see the final case come to a close.
I also think Athena is quite endearing and hope to see her developed a little more in future games.
please continue, i love ace attorney content and you are really good
Thanks a million, your comment means a lot to me.
When I actually played DD, I was HEAVILY BIASED AGAINST AJ. I _really_ hated Hobonix because we had no idea why and HOW he came to be, we got little to no background on the 7 years, I hated how this amazing character had jaded over like the opposite of what he used to be. I hated Trucy because i blamed her for presenting forged evidence to Phoenix, resulting Phoenix losing his badge (I like her now though). I hated that they made Ema lose all her hope, although I liked her interactions. I really disliked the investigations in some cases (the magic panties..come on..). So when they originally reverted them to the same dorks, etc etc, me, blinded by my bias, _loved_ it. But now that I replayed it, I completely agree with you, thank you!
I fucking loved the plot of Dual Destinies. The reason it will not stick in my mind nearly as much as the trilogy is the soundtrack. It was a natural progression but damn I could listen to the soundtracks for hours on end.
I had an interesting order with how I played the series. I went 1, 2, 3, 5, 4, 6. First five on iOS, which is why the order was a little funny there, and then 6 on my 3ds.
A big part of what I think set apart the original trilogy from the new was the newly introduced mechanics, and the lacklustre way they brought back some others. For example, DD was when I first saw the power of Apollo’s bracelet, but I then when I saw how it was originally implemented, it felt like it got much easier in DD. I found picking out tells in AA:AJ way harder. But then I got the reverse when it came to the Magatama ability. I loved the complexity and foreshadowing the Magatama produced in the original trilogy. You found a witness acting shady, so you go out and find more clues so you can break them later. But the new Magatama puzzle could all be broken immediately, which took away some of the fun. And while I’m here, I guess I found the Mood Matrix new and interesting, and the Divination Seance quite challenging.
But to put a button on my thoughts of DD. I love it. Dunno if I think it’s the weakest, but I loved the final case and think Blackquill might be my favourite prosecutor.
Lol I went 5, 4, 1, now I'm on 2, gonna play 3 next and then prolly 6 after 3
in all honesty i forgot so much about dual destinies that when i played spirit of justice less than a year later i thought the DLC case was the first time phoenix and edgeworth have faced off since the OG trilogy. it could be because of the time gap where i didnt play the games for a while but i find myself forgetting so much about dual destinies that i didnt forget about other games. i don’t remember disliking it when i was playing it, but it never felt like there was anything to really latch onto while playing it and as a result i’m constantly finding myself having to research the lore of dual destinies just to remember what happened
Awesome video ! You really addressed most of my gripes with the game. I still think we got some fun characters out of it but I don't see myself revisiting it anytime soon. That being said another fault I had with it in hindsight is the lack of continuity in terms of characters. Not just Trucy, Klavier, etc. But something the original trilogy and Investigations accomplished with the rotation of background characters was it made Japanifornia feel very lived in. I think an AA4 sequel could've continued in the same way. Without that, Dual Destinies just ended up feeling not quite right 😅
Thank you kindly! You’re right, the game wanted to do its own thing, while also bringing along a whole lot of characters from the older games and ultimately didn’t give them anything to do.
Athena Cykes is my favourite character (probably because I studied Psychology and absolutely love the Mood Matrix). I honestly had no idea people didn’t like her!
I think the one at fault here is CAPCOM. We know that Yamazaki is good from investigations 2 (that is probably my 2nd or 3rd favourite), but due to being forced to follow Shu's Apollo Justice storyline and probably being forced by CAPCOM to make a new gameplay gimmick (seriously, who plays ace attorney for the GAMEPLAY), resulted in this, and even then, all things considered, the game was okay. Definitely the most mediocre ace attorney game, I also hate the fact that they just abandoned the goldmine of potential Apollo Justice's characters. I want a spin with Klavier and Trucy discovering their past with miles as their mentor and help from Kay and Raymond. It may be a bad idea, but I'd love a good investigations game again.
It’s pretty good! I think it’s probably the most consistent game in the series I’ve played so far (1-5 atm). It never reaches the high highs of stuff like jfa or aa1, but it never gets as bad as jfa or apollo Justice. It has problems, but yeah, it’s fun. Case 5 especially is pretty great, and as always the music is great
I totally agree, the game is consistent with its quality.
Forget sleep, my guy has uploaded :)
I appreciate the support- but please make sure to get enough rest!
I can agree with preferring spirit of justice over dual destinies as well as not enough focus. But I love this game and Athena Cykes.
Started playing the first game, moved to dgs and then continued with the trilogy to jump straight to starting AA5 and AJ simultaneously. AA5 was way more fun to me, of course it was easy, but considering the time I had available to play it, it was comfortable to play through and way harder to get stuck which could be annoying at times.
Even though the characters had interesting concepts to me, they fell out flat at some parts, but being honest, it's something that has happened over all the games this far and not only with dual destinies. How they handled Athena's trauma and sensitive auditory issues were as nice as Edgeworth's counterpart. Sadly I can't remember it well, but the chronological order of the cases kinda messed it up at some point.
Having Phoenix was a bit too much since he didn't have a real connection to the final case but I kinda liked his dad like personality towards Athena and Apollo. I think the game would have been real nice for both of them only, Athena makes damn sense for an assistant being an actual layer and their dynamic, thus similar to Trucy, felt less annoying to me (I love Trucy but there were some moments she was just... Overwhelming to me.)
I didn't like Blackquill at first because of his, evident overly-edgy appearance, but his character came out decent at best. He is not my favorite prosecutor or even near, but he was fun enough, had his moments and his dynamic with Athena was interesting. I would've loved to see more of them interacting or some hints to their relationship more than "I'm doing this for someone" and then forgetting about it. Simon and Fulbright's relationship was interesting as well, which makes me consider that the fulbright-blackquill-cykes trio was meant to be but they had to make room for the classic cast, as the new additions compliment each other nicely.
The music was sick and holds some of my favorite tracks from the franchise.
The order of the cases felt confusing, and the twist didn't feel flat to me, but unsatisfying. Similar to Shelly the killer from AA2 (not counting AI games) I felt like we learned nothing of the Phantom or Shelly's real context or more than a rough idea of how they operate, the former being a way more grave and unsatisfying hole than the later as his methods were PART of the trial logic, at least. Phantom felt way too comical at the end, basically ruining the corrupted/emotionless human that sounds great in paper but kinda wacky going back to how it was executed.
I enjoyed using the mood matrix on him, but personally I really liked how he kept up with Fulbright's character even when everything was pretty much clear. I was expecting him to give up earlier and considering I really liked Fulbright, he even kinda warmed my heart as much as I knew he was the Phantom all the way. He believed it to some point after taking his identity for that long, mixed with some kind of bad improvisation, which taking in account that he basically already messed up a few times, gave me a stronger impression of that supposed "fear" the game tries to unsuccessfully convey at the end of the case.
I'm not particularly bothered by him being shot at the end, but considering we know nothing even though he survived he could have perfectly died too.
The game is nice, I love it to bits, but it's lacking and has so many unsatisfying parts at the end fells incomplete. But it had great moments, maybe too rough on the edges but great nonetheless.
Non-related but Fulbright's japanese phrase "If you ever find yourself in trouble, call for me, Justice is our secret word!" is way more memorable to me than his English counterpart, may sound way too childish or vague, but I find it kinda adorable :) I really appreciate the switch from a plain 'justice' yell in Japanese to a motto in-game in english, though.
I still can't believe that the DLC case is the best case of the game.
It’s so good.
I love the passion you express with these games. It makes everything you say so engaging. I personally really liked Dual Destinies. I liked the imagery provided in the mood matrix parts of the game. The plot twist of Athena being her mother’s killer and that image of her smiling with blood splattered on her face chilled me to the bone. I love the characters and the soundtrack. It’s rough around the edges but still a fantastic game IMO.
I really appreciate you taking your time to leave your comment, thank you.
The Mood Matrix is a fun mechanic and despite it falling flat a couple times here and there, it overall added to Dual Destinies, giving it a unique edge over other entries.
@@JacksMelancholy I discovered your channel yesterday and I subscribed on the first video I saw which was the hobo Phoenix Wright video. I’m looking forward to hear more of your thoughts and curious to see what you think of Spirits of Justice (I think that’s the one after DD). Still hoping for the Great Ace Attorney to come to the west.
@@tonyngo1885 it's coming next month
I would argue about the models, for me they felt awkward and overexaggerated, which is only accentuates the existing problem of it feeling like a drama despite having the story of a tragedy. The animations just made it feel so fake and ridiculous. Though the animation is mostly a problem with the attorneys, Blackquill is awesome (both as a character and his animations, even if I called the twist that he was innocent from the moment he appeared)
Dual Destinies was my first AA game! Fpr that alone it (and Athena) have a very special place in my heart.
I just finished playing through the trilogy and Apollo Justice so now I can't wait to revisit DD with all the knowledge of the backstories. Let's see how it holds up
I’m glad that this entry in the series means a lot to other people.
I genuinely really enjoy Dual Destinies! It was wild enough but not too wild *cough 6-5 *coughbu
I absolutely adore Athena and still think she should get her own game because as you said the focus is a bit strained in DD. She gets one really good case in Turnabout Academy and another decent one that was pretty enjoyable in SoJ with Turnabout Storyteller. Another point of Athena poggin is the Mood Matrix itself! A fun minigame but could I see how some people see it 1 Dimensional? I mean I guess? But my main argument against that is 5-5's Mood Matrixes. Simon Blackquill's overload immediately caught my interest. BUT THE PHANTOM'S WAS PHENOMENAL! It really made the Phantom seem like an actual threat. That was so cool!
I do think it could be better of course! You've made some really good points and I appreciate the fresh POV.
Glad I’m not the only one who enjoys Turnabout Academy. Thank you for leaving your thoughts.
I feel like I can't like this game because of the stupid phantom plot twist, it almost feels like a personal vendetta. When we were first introduced to Bobby Fulbright, he was such a lively, outgoing, fun character, and quickly became my favorite in the series. Then when the final case rolled around and revealed that not only was he the villain, but he was dead the entire time and the detective you've been interacting with the entire game was just an imposter was absolutely devastating for me. That probably sounds a bit petty, but it's hard for me to acknowledge the good things in this game simply due to how they valued a dumb plot twist over an interesting character.
Speaking of, Turnabout for Tomorrow definitely fell short for me not only because of that dumb plot twist. I thought that there would've been a third investigation and trial regarding the phantom, who he was, who hired him, and what else that company has done that's worthy of being prosecuted. Instead, the phantom remained an emotionless killer with no personality or motives of his own and we didn't even get to learn any background from him. He was literally just a gimmick to see what new thing they could do with the Mood Matrix. This is even worse when you take into account how great the first half of the trial was with Blackquill and Athena's history. They had something interesting going on, but didn't tie in any of the loose ends they left at the end which obviously wouldn't be explored in later games.
I don’t think it’s petty; I think that’s the effect the writers were going for. The plot twists do seem rather convoluted, unfortunately.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I miss your stuff, hope you're still doing well.
Also appreciate the Danganronpa music lmao
Thanks a lot, I appreciate your support and DR music does indeed slap.
Got a slightly longer project coming out very soon regarding a rookie Japanese lawyer in early 20th century London…
@@JacksMelancholy sick
cat in the recording be like: I demand attention, Hooman.
Now i know what its like to be a Jack's Melancholy Palace fan. Dont go away for 3 years again!
Your comment is ridiculously sweet, thanks a million. I'm working on something I hope to have out very soon.
@@JacksMelancholy Thank you! And ill look forward to your next video!
the thing abt squandered pottential i rly agree with, there was a lot going on that couldve been so cool and fun to see but the execution falls flat
the fact that they cant outright reference past cases also feels like it rly hindered things from a character perspective, trucy and apollo still not knowing they're siblings was something that disappointed me *a lot*, klavier not even hinting at the fact that his own brother was just a massive bastard felt weird considering he was there specifically during the academy case, etc etc
They truly looked at Apollo Justice and decided to abandon the vibes that game set up. It had the potential to be a whole new series with a different feel, but instead they played it safe.
I honestly loved all the games, I came pretty late to the hype train and played from the original up to apollo justice in 2015-2016, 2 years later I got the Dual Destinies on my iPad and truly enjoyed it from start to end, I do agree that this one is the easiest one but that did not hold me from enjoying the story that man, I loved, especially with Athena's character (yeah she deserves her own entry) and how she ended up being a jey part of the story, plus the last trial was amazing from beginning to end, yeah the phantom isn't a villain with true presence but Booby Fulbright was a brand new detective that truly had a remarkable personality "IN JUSTICE WE TRUST!" and the twist of him being a being with literally no personality perfect to kill was just an amazing plot twist, literally the only flaw with him was that in the end, he was afraid that let to his demise but still it was a great story through and through. My favourite on the series is Apollo Justice but Dual Destinies is still a solid game nonetheless with the charm of Ace Attorney
I’m really glad that AJ and DD resonated with you so much; I think due to the fact I was exposed to the original trilogy, my expectations were a little higher.
Still, I enjoyed both entries.
Dual Destinies is second only to Trials and Tribulations for me. I know it’s far from the perfect game but I really enjoy it. I like Athena as a new character and love the mood matrix. Simon Blackquill is probably my 3rd favorite prosecutor, behind Edgeworth and Godot. The Academy case was the shining jewel of the game for me, and while the finally and Phantom twist was a bit predictable and could’ve been better, I still loved the mood matrix with no emotions showing. That moment was super cool for me. I also love that Apollo got some good character development. Overall it’s definitely one of my favorites
I’m glad the game resonated with you so much; there’s certainly a lot to love, especially how endearing the characters are.
Haven’t seen anyone argue that Blackquill isn’t a fantastic prosecutor.
Well, I guess then I am different than other AA fans, since AA5 is my favourite game of the series. From the characters, through locations and trials themselves (Maybe with mixed feelings about second one, but hey). And the cherry on top, which for me is Athena Cykes. I just love Athena from her design and character through her sprites and positive energy she brings. And Blackquill is also really good, well written and interesting Prosecutor compared to Klavier...
Generally compared to previous and next game I favor DD for sure... Especially with exclusion of Athena as a main defense attorney. And no, I don't mention SoJ Chapter 4. It is not a chapter, it is a crime against Athena :V
I’m also a big fan of Athena’s design and agree that the second case is probably the weakest.
If she got her own game to shine, I feel she could really come into her own.
I guess you could say that, in Japan and the West, the game had *Dual Destinies*™️
*slow clap*
I think it's a very good game with some serious flaws. The biggest two being how poorly it follows up Apollo Justice (if you're going to get rid of the Jurist System, the least you could do is mention what happened to it) and how much "tell, don't show" it has to its story, especially with the dark age of the law thread. I still enjoy it as a game because it has some good characters (Blackquill being the highlight), but it falls flat to me as part of the series. But as I always say, there is no truly bad Ace Attorney game.
I agree with you; while this game does fall apart a little, the characters are quite endearing.
Well to be honest I only truly liked Turnabout Academy from DD (and comeback of Edgeworth)
For me DD IS definitely the weakest game in franchise but I have to admit it was mostly influced by how they handled the ending of the last case (phantom cough phantom). To be honest I do liked Athena and Simon as characters and their background so I guess when I think of DD I only complain about its execution than writing
I feel pretty much the same way. Wish that Athena and Simon had more time and more unique circumstances to really come into their own.
At least Apollo seems to have been given that treatment in Spirit of Justice.
I am one of those Ace Attorney fans who want Athena Cykes to have her own game.
Great Ace Attorney Chronicles (July 27). 😉
I've recently watched your AA videos and it was certainly entertaining, I hope you upload more and srsly dude your awesome keep up the good work
Thank you so much, I really appreciate your support.
I would like an Athena game, not because I love her character but because I feel like I could.
Couldn’t have put it better myself.
There’s a lot of potential for her to develop into a really interesting protagonist that hasn’t been realized yet.
Especially after SOJ. I liked SOJ (though it gave Apollo too much). However, I hate what Capcom did to Athena in SOJ. It gave her one case, just like in DD, but the one case she received was unimportant, filler, and dismal. Apparently, Japanese fans hate Athena and worship Apollo's horns, which explains why Capcom handled Apollo and Athena the way they did in SOJ. I also am probably not the only person who found the role reversal between Phoenix and Apollo quite strange (trying to avoid spoilers in case you haven't played SOJ yet).
@@greninjamastergabe6452 I think it makes sense for Apollo to get the main spotlight especially because it would likely be his last main line game appearance for a while, I think making Athena a full fledged lawyer and going "here's the third protagonist" in DD was a bit pre-emptive and instead of coming up with a good reason why Athena isn't taking on many cases in a way that felt natural, they instead are like "remember our third character, well we need to give her a filler case to remind people she exists". Honestly if in DD, she was given a title of apprentice of begginer, then it might explain how in most scenarios she gets passed over for the more level headed attorney's, a title can do a lot, but idk
Dual Destinies is honestly a lot better than I’ve been giving it credit for years. There’s so much that’s enjoyable and downright impressive about the story, it just also happens to fall flat in some crucial places. Still, I appreciate it a lot more these days.
That’s pretty much how I feel about it too. Curious to see how our opinions change even later down the line.
I feel like theres so many 'main characters' that the story revolves around now, im kinda missing when Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney was about Phoenix Wright being an Ace Attorney
I feel quite similarly.
"we've all got to start somewhere", endless possibilities sonic unleashed reference
sorry for my english
I just feel like the entry is a massive hit against the series longevity. It pulled the phoenix returns card the game after he left and even in apollo justice he was mostly present. And they do it in the literal first case as well. I feel like they should have waited one more game and saved his return for a more dire moment and it could be one of the best moments in the entire series.
Because of phoenixs early return apollos story feels to rushed. It's basically the equivalent of if mia came back to life after the first game. It just leaves not enough time for apollo to do his own thing.
Athena's nice but they're really isn't enough time for her to be doing her own thing with all the other plot lines going on.
I think we needed at least once more apollo game and these problems would be gone.
Quite right too.
And by playing that card, they robbed Apollo (and subsequently Athena) of the chance to really come into their own.
You know... Despite Mia showing back up several times in the same game she died in.
@@yagirlmayalazarus6713 yeah she did. But imagine if she was actually alive and was playable in the magority of cases. It would eat up a ton of time that was used to develop Phoenix. Aka the same thing that happened to apollo by Phoenix coming back.
It's funny how you mention all this. I thought it was a great game with its fun characters, gorgeous 3D animations, and engaging plot twists. The beginning trials might have been slow for experienced players, but it felt like the right pace of action for someone who didn't play the ace attorney games for a long time. But after watching your video, I agree with all your points: my review doesn't consider the games that already exist in the franchise, and the killers were flat in their motivations. Good news is that if you thought this was the lower end of the franchise, then that would mean that I would enjoy the other Ace Attorney games even more.
Dual Destinies was very nostalgic for me so I'll always like it
I love Dual Destinies because, IMO, Athena is the best character in the series. She's so energetic, cheerful, and adorable.
Dual Destinies is actually my favorite game. Sure, it has flaws definitely but I love it to bits.
Athena is best girl.
The stand-off with Phoenix and Edgeworth gave me chills,
It has my favorite soundtrack in the whole series.
Putting Apollo at odds with Phoenix was great thematically.
The Game is gorgeous, start to finished.
Dual Destinies was great. It was the first game in the series I played all the way through and it has only been reached in my eyes by Trials and Tribulations. To be fair though, TnT had 3 games of set-up for its most hard-hitting moments where Dual Destinies had one.
My thoughts on Dual Destinies have been mixed. I recognize the issues with it, but I still love the hype moments it provide, especially when “Pursuit” would play! It’s also technically my first Ace Attorney game. I say technically because I played the first case when the game came out on iOS, and while I really enjoyed it, I felt like there was a lot I was missing in terms of the story and characters, so I downloaded the HD version of the original trilogy and proceeded to play the entire series in release order. That includes Investigations 2 btw.
After a few months, I finally returned to Dual Destinies and finished the game. With such a long wait, it felt like there was a lot of expectations for it to live up to. I vaguely remember being tearful by the end, so I’d say it succeeded. Like you, it hasn’t stuck with me as much as the other games, but it’s the entire reason why I got into Ace Attorney and became a part of this community, and by extension, ended up finding your channel, so I’ll always love it for that!
I agree. When the cases in Dual Destinies reach their climactic conclusions, it’s hard not to get swept up in all the excitement.
Glad the series means so much to you and thanks a lot for your support.
Something I personally feel wasn't given the love it should've, was the abilities Phoenix and Apollo had. Whenever the prompt to use the magatama or bracelet appeared, it felt more like a, "Remember this from the previous games?" than a mechanic that was important to progressing through the game. Apollo outright being denied his ability to use it in court being the most biting example in my opinion
Right?
The sections were automatic and you didn’t have to deduce as much as before to break the witness.
After introducing so many abilities, none have really had the chance to be developed a whole lot.
Are you done making videos? I find your ace attorney videos to be super fascinating; there’s so few people who sit down and analyze a game or character like this in this franchise. It’d be really cool to hear your thoughts on more aspects of the series or character analysis like your AJ Phoenix vid. I get if you’re too busy/unmotivated but it’d be cool to see more. Regardless, hope you’re doing well.
Thanks for leaving a comment; I really appreciate your support. I’m definitely planning to talk more about the Ace Attorney series very soon, but my life has been a little hectic.
@@JacksMelancholy Understandable. Definitely no rush. Just think your content is really cool. Hope you can get everything sorted!
It would be awesome to see one of those "Every Case ranked from worst to best" from you, I really like your video style and wish you lots of success!
Thanks a million, I appreciate your support.
Perhaps I’d give that a shot; got a slightly longer project lined up to come out very soon regarding a rookie Japanese lawyer in early 20th century London…
Talks about AA with Danganronpa music in the background. A man of culture and a great content creator.
Aww thank you so much! The DR soundtrack is ridiculously good.
I give this game a 7/10
I feel they could have done a little more with it
The first case was decent, I liked Ted Tonate as a character
The second case was average at best. It seemed to be all over the place
I really liked the 3rd case. Usually the 3rd case is the weakest case in a Phoenix Wright game but I actually liked this case more than the 2nd case
The 4th & 5th cases leave something to be desired. I truly feel the developers backed themselves into a corner with these cases and resorted to using a "Phantom" as the culprit as a way to wrap things up
What I feel they should have done is the 4th case should have been the trial where Simon Blackquill gets charged with murder, and you play through the trial to ultimately see Simon get his guilty verdict. I felt the developers could have found a way to make this happen
Then they could have combined cases 4 & 5 into one giant case
Overall, a decent game but it just didn't leave a great impression on me
I really appreciate how reasonable, organized, and well-researched your approach is to these videos. Great to have some quality discussion surrounding this great series. I especially appreciate that you never fall into the trap of “I hate this!!! Who made this game??? This decision the devs made was stupid and I don’t feel like explaining myself!” Good stuff.
I can’t say I don’t wish they did a bit more to acknowledge the events of the previous game. However, this was actually my introduction to the series, so I’ve never really had too much issue with it because it more or less set the mold for me. It definitely has its flaws and I can see that now, but I don’t hate it at all. I especially love the soundtrack, and I appreciate that it transitioned the series to 3D pretty faithfully. Anime cutscenes are awesome too.
Thank you so much; I’m glad I have the opportunity to discuss the game with likeminded fans and appreciate your support.
Love this video! I hope you will also review ‘Spirit Of Justice’.
Definitely would like to get round to it, someday. Thank you for your support. 🎶
*ahem*
yes.
Your videos about turnabout academy are fantastic.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have our verdict.
@@bridgetmoran7343 What they said.
I kind of agree with most of what you said. However, I think that one thing that always bugged me off about Dual Destinies is how it feels like watching an anime rather than playing an actual game. And I'm saying this because there are multiple elements contributing to it: the even more exaggerated and two-dimensional characters, the so-stereotypically anime locations of the 2nd and 3rd chapters, blackquill, Fulbright, which I think you fail to care about throughout the game and so the final twist becomes basically boring. The only time I felt somehow emotionally involved was for Athena and Blackquill, because they seem to be the only ones who actually talk about guilt, sadness. Apollo becomes a pirate dickhead whose reasoning to become one seems weird even after it is finally explained, the friendship highschooler trio is just an anime trope, Ted Tonate seems to feel the least bit guilty about what he's done, and so does LeBelle. It's actually a bit amusing that a game which has as a recurring theme psychology fails so miserably in that area (ie. thinking just about the first game: I empathised with Maya and I wanted to get the killer guilty, I understood the pain of Dee Vasquez, I empathised with Edgeworth like with Maya... in all of these cases the characters feel guilt, sadneed, and thus also feel believable).
I still need to play SoJ. But boy do I hope that it is as good as basically any other AA game or spinoff
I feel quite similar to you.
Hope you get the chance to enjoy Spirit of Justice; I believe it to be a step in the right direction.
Pretty much everything you said is on point, but Dual Destinies is my first Ace Attorney game. And it has a special place in my heart because it's what introduced me to the entire series.
I still much prefer Dual Destinies over the original first two games in the series. But it is flawed, and to deny that is to make Dual Destinies something that it isn't.
I’ve seen similar sentiments down below and I’m glad this game has had that impact on some people; if DD is your favorite, don’t let anyone take that away from you.
I don't disagree with anything you said in this video.
BUT.
I got sooo many chills when I realised that [SPOILER] was the big bad.
Did it, like, make all the sense in the world? I mean, not really, but I really liked the guy and I think that was the twist that affected me the most, through all the games. (Besides maybe the ending to T&T. It's hard for anything to look good compared to that game.)
It was a pretty shocking twist and I recall it hitting me hard too.
I suppose I just wish that character was explored a tad bit more.
I loved playing it for the first time.
One recuring character in particular was so fun I had a blast playing it despite being way more obvious and easy than any other entry in the serie. I was so bummed when I learned this character wouldn't be in any other game tho. Even today, that character is the only reason I can see myself go back on this game.
I agree with everything you said about the last case. The twist ruined this character because it was written before.
I still want to like this game but there is too many flaws.
If I had to list the qualities I'd say :
- Music
- Apollo small character developpement
- That character
And that's about it. Even the DLC case was good but I didn't enjoy it since I did it after case 5
I can probably guess who you’re talking about and I stand by the fact that the characters in Dual Destinies are one of the game’s strongest qualities.
Watching your content made me fall in love with ace attorney
Thanks a million; I’m glad I could share the joy this series has given me.
Alright I'll be subbed until the Persona vids start rollin
Thank you kindly. ✨
That’s something I’d adore talking about.
This is a wonderful video you made that I keep coming back to.
Dual Destinies is my least favourite Ace Attorney title, yet I enjoy it and it's characters quite a bit. I would have preferred it if Phoenix had less screentime during the final two cases, since he was the person who had little to no emotional ties to case 5 at all.
Speaking of Phoenix, him deviating from his Hobo Persona is something that left a bitter taste in my mouth. While I completely agree with your take on his character not having reverted to his T&T Persona, I feel like this Phoenix is an example of him 8 years after the trilogy itself - without Hobo Phoenix' Arc whatsoever. Yamazaki and his team completely ignored that part of his character (rightfully so, yet it is still something I cannot come in terms with). He doesn't seem like a Phoenix shortly after taking in Apollo and defeating Kristoph. His interactions conclude that he has only gained more experience in his profession - hence his professional behaviour on the crime scene.
So, to conclude my point: Phoenix' previous Arc was skipped over and that is what left me unsatisfied, even if I enjoyed DD and the clashing of ideologies between Apollo and our dear Bluff master.
Thank you so much for your support.
There's certainly a stark contrast between them, however I also feel that's in part to AA4 taking place from the perspective of Apollo.
You're right about Athena and Apollo having a lot more on the line during the final two cases.
This is just me but I personally don't like the Ace Attorney games after Apollo Justice. (Not including the Miles Edgeworth games, Professor Layton crossover and the trilogy for this case) since dual destinies brought the new animation style, sound effects etc. Since I was far more accustomed to the more pixelated theme and sound effects they used before. Like the usual "Objection!", "Hold it!" etc.
Edit: Nice cat you have there.
I feel the mood matrix could have been better implemented as an expansion of Apollo's ability(going from perceiving subtle body reactions in order to find the truth behind those actions to perceiving subtle emotional changes and discrepancies in order to find the truth behind those reactions) as that was stated by Apollo himself as one of his goals in the ending of Apollo Justice. It could've spurred Apollo's growth as it would allow him to become more personable with his clients and with people in general after the distrust shown to him all throughout the pervious game. Trust in his clients is one of the most important qualities that Apollo has to build if he wants to improve as a lawyer. This was a dilemma for him that is presented in this very game and through this change, I think it could've given it greater focus in the story and in Apollo's overall character arc. Just add that missed opportunity to the pile.
And you just got a new subscriber!
You bring up a lot of interesting points.
Thanks a million!
I actually recently played through Dual Destinies in its entirety. While I will say that I enjoyed most of what the game offered (especially the final cases and the DLC case), I will agree that a lot of the story beats felt very… all over the place as you said. Even in the final cases, there were parts where I feel more time could’ve been dedicated to them and while I love Athena Cykes as a character, it was sad seeing Apollo basically side-lined for most of the game (thankfully Spirit of Justice fixed that)
My main take away from playing the game is honestly that I want AA7 to be “Athena Cykes: Ace Attorney”. She’s the only one of the main three that still needs a complete arc, not to mention the event where she and Phoenix met in Europe which is alluded to in Reclaimed and could make for a good flashback case if they absolutely Phoenix to be playable in some part. And if Trucy is Athena’s assistant, then they can work the Thalassa plot thread stuff into there too. I personally feel like that’s the way they really need to wrap up the series. Maybe even retroactively fix some problems with Dual Destinies story in the process (maybe bring up the Phantom again, giving him more depth). Who knows, just spitballing at this point.
Anyways, great video as it was really thought provoking. Hope this comment finds you.
Thank you kindly.
I agree and I think that similarly to Apollo Justice, the series needed to double down on new characters instead of trying to write ones that were so personal to the original creator of the series.
Love the videos man I'd like to see you upload more often
Much obliged, I really appreciate that. I’m definitely planning to talk about some things more in-depth in the near future.
Your support motivates me to do more, thanks again. 🎶
Is it odd I prefer the spirte work over the 3d graphics
Are you gonna make videos about the Investigations and the Great Ace Attorney games one day ?
Here’s hoping!
I’d certainly have a lot to say. Those games really let the series explore a different kind of way to tell your typical Ace Attorney story.
@@JacksMelancholy they are coming out officially worldwide so it would be beneficial to cash in on the hype.
The thing I love most about the AA games are the twists. The phantom twist was also pretty great. But the 2 orcas twist in the DLC mission just left me confused. I didn't see this one coming, but the reveal wasn't very appealing or welcoming for me either. Would love to know your views on this.
Btw great video mate! 👍
The DLC twist didn’t confuse me a great deal, but I can see how it could. I also didn’t see the reveal of The Phantom coming.
Thanks for the support!
i was just happy playing this game because my name is athena and it was the first time i saw a video game character with the same name as me
Imposter? Sabotaged the spaceship? Uh oh...
Bobby be lookin’ kinda sus...
I love Athena's character, she's the best thing about Dual Destinies for me, especially in Turnabout Academy (one of my favorite cases in the franchise) where she has a chance to shine. I'm one of the people waiting for an Athena Cykes : Ace Attorney.
But else this game was either correct, either good, either really good (when it was really good it was REALLY good). There isn't really a bad case in this game, but I found case 2 and 4 (except near the end) boring.
Sounds like we had similar experiences. Cases 2 and 4 don’t spring to mind when considering the best in the series.
Everyone's got a personal opinion.
Personally I like ace attorney for because its of mystery genre.
So my favourite games based on crimes are
1. Spirit of justice
2. Dual destinies
3. Apollo justice
And based on story
1. Apollo justice
2. Dual destinies
3. Spirit of justice
And based on plot twists
1. Dual destinies
2. Apollo justice
3. Spirit of justice
Other games don't stand a chance thought I like them too. I didn't play original trilogy but rather watched anime.
Maybe spin off games will be good, I am halfway on gyakuten kenji 1 and just started Dai gyakuten saiban. Also I am halfway in spirit of justice. I don't play, but watch walkthroughs like I am watching a show.
It’s intriguing to me that you prefer the newer games over the original trilogy, however I respect your opinion all the same.
@@JacksMelancholy The main reason I got in the game because these are detective stories.
I watched some detective animes such as Detective Conan, Kindaichi case files, Detective School Q, Death note etc. I was searching for another anime as it is very hard to find one, the given are the best ones I could find and thats how I got in the ace attorney anime and then into games. Tbh I like ace attorney because it involves courtroom, otherwise the above stated detective shows cases which are so mysterious, it won't let you sleep. For example-Murders where a body is found in a room with its key inside and is also locked inside, disappearing body from a locked room, and every monstrosity you can imagine.
I really like Dual Destinies but I will say that one change I would make.. Have Clay Terran featured in Case 2. Not only would it allow us to get to know him before his death in Case 4 but it would also make Case 2 feel more part of the story since the rest of it sort of feels like filler.
Incorporating Clay into the story early on would have given his case so much more impact and depth. (A lesson I feel they learned before going into Spirit of Justice.)
I think a big problem with DD is that it doesn’t make good on what came before or set up for what comes after. There’s so much from AA4 that is either just awkwardly there like Trucy and Apollo’s relationship or Klavier, or dropped entirely. And then SOJ just kinda…. Went off in its own direction which, idk, I can see why people liked it but I personally didn’t like Apollo’s new backstory. DD has a lot of good stuff! The characters are great, I LOVE Athena and Simon. It sets up a good look for the series going forward. I just wanted Apollo Justice 2 and we never got it
You’ve hit the nail on the head.
It tried building off the previous games while also starting its own thing with Athena.
I constantly refer to AA5 as being potentially my least favorite game in the series. And yet, it's probably the one I've discussed the most at length for why I feel the way I do. I came to the game after having loved AA4, excited to see the next chapter of *Apollo's* journey. At the time I found it to be a slap in the face for seemingly doing whatever it could to backtrack on anything AA4 accomplished. While I agree, Phoenix didn't quite "revert to his old self" I feel he's a bit of a caricature of his personality over the years. I'm not quite against the idea of him getting his badge again, but I wish he had remained in the back seat as a mentor to the new attorneys. Like you discussed, the game lacks focus. I feel like a stronger focus could have been placed on Athena and Apollo's roles as the next generation, if the playable roster has been limited to those two and less on Phoenix's "great" return. I especially thought the Phantom's role felt contrived to me, and I think the way he goes out felt like a deus ex machina. I don't know if I necessarily want an Athena game, as I feel Dual Destinies should have been her game in the first place. But the game couldn't pick a lane. In general, I feel like this game's story might have been better suited as a spin-off simply titled "Athena Cykes: Ace Attorney".
Of course, it's been nearly 7 years since I last did a full playthrough of the game in 2014. I've been quite curious how much my feelings would change on a revisit, if at all. There are quite a few things I like about this game. I love Athena and Blackquill as characters, I just wish they had been given a better story.
Replaying the game for this video, my feelings were definitely different from when I first played it too.
If you recall liking the characters, I recommend giving the game another shot.
I’m actually replaying DD right now, and I think your assessment is 💯 spot on - the game lacked focus and a commitment to its myriad of choices. Which, as you said, is such a shame because it had so much potential. All of the characters (old and new) deserved better, and the final twist with the Phantom having been under their noses all along is bone-chilling in concept, but fell flat in execution, precisely because there was just too much else going on. And then, because the execution of it was so poor, those beats that they mimicked from the original trilogy came off as cheap imitations instead of well-done homages. And finally, the second case grates on my nerves more than just about any other from the whole series because it drags and the characters involved are only so-so.
All of that said, I still do love the game anyway. Additionally, I recently happened to read a startlingly impressive fanfic series that expounded on Blackquill, Fulbright, and the Phantom in such a way that I now can’t help but see them with way more depth (though I already sort of felt that way about Blackquill), which makes playing DD far more enjoyable, but I don’t know if I ever would have if I hadn’t read it.
I’m so glad I found your channel! Ace Attorney is my number one obsession these days and I could spend absolutely forever analyzing and discussing the series. Insta-subscribe, haha.
Thank you kindly, I’m glad you’re enjoying the series so much.
Currently playing The Great Ace Attorney myself. Looking forward to sharing my thoughts on it in the near future.
I really appreciate your support.
I honestly loved DD, the plot was well written for me and I liked the new characters.
However, I think that if they wanted to make an AA game with three lawyers, the game should have way more then 6 cases in order to to get more character development, especially on Apollo and Athena.
In the end, I would place the game in 4th place over Justice for all and the original game
The one thing that angers me about Dual Destinies is the idea of the "Dark Age of Law" in the Ace Attorney franchise.
We already have atleast 3 other prosecutors who killed people before Simon, and Edgeworth had the nickname "demon attorney" because he would get these Guilty verdicts in unethical ways. Plus Edgeworth as a rookie was a bigger deal than Simon as a rookie.
Phoenix allegedly forging evidence kind of makes sense. Yes, a legendary defense attorney with miraculous turnabouts would definitely cause waves. But I could argue about there have been unethical defense attorneys before him (Robert Hammond using the insanity plea, Calisto Yew killing the prosecutor and defendant in AAI).
Hell, the premise of the first AA game is a better marker for the Dark Age of Law. DL-6 was a crazy media storm of everyone evolved, and SL-9 has the corruption of the police and the prosecutor office.
The Dark Age of the Law felt like a forced overarching narrative, that’s for sure.
In the Ace Attorney universe, lawyers have been corrupt for years before DD.
My only problem I hade with Dual Destines and the other 3DS game is adding to Apollo‘s backstory and kinda making more complicated than it needed to be.
4:26 that got me since I've played both
4 months worth the wait
That’s ridiculously kind of you to say, seriously, thanks a million.
I enjoyed Dual Destinies but I really disliked Fulbright. Prior games rely on having some contact with the police (either from Gumshoe or Ema) where they are, above all else, earnest. In this entry it's really Wright and Co. vs the world and caused anything but courtroom segments to really drag. In Spirit of Justice we also feel the same way about having the odds stacked against Wright and Co. but it's intentional.
But let's be real, facing off against Phoenix in that one case in SoJ was incredible and terrifying.