Are 4-Star Characters Getting WORSE? What Should We Expect? (Genshin Impact 3.0 Sumeru Discussion)
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Are 4-stars in Genshin Impact getting worse? If you compare older 4-stars like Fischl, Xingqiu, Sucrose, Bennett, Xiangling, and even the likes of Beidou and Rosaria, these characters have become core characters for meta teams, consistently ranking top on Genshin Impact tier lists. Sometimes, they even compete with 5-star characters. But what about the newer 4-stars, like those from Inazuma? Take Thoma, Sayu for example, and Sumeru characters Collei and Dori. Is Genshin making characters weaker? Or are they just going from overpowered to "balanced"? Can the Dendro reaction meta reveal more potential, such as with Kuki Shinobu? This video essay is a meta discussion about the state of 4-stars as of Genshin Impact 3.0. #GenshinImpact #Dendro #Sumeru
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I think mihoyo made the first 4* good to compensate for the free to play aspect. It seems like the 4*star nowadays generally fill a niche role but within that niche role they excel. As compared to the original 4* that are pretty universal and easy to use/manage.
It’s hoyoverse now
What niche do they excel at??? There is no niche for them that is not better occupied by one of the starting 4 stars.
Wait till they add more characters and then they will excel, just like kuki. I don’t think mihoyo purposely makes bad characters. We still got many patches ahead of us.
@@arany5123 sara buffs electro units like raiden great. Yun Jin with normal attack/ayato gorou with geo ect. Those are their niches you can’t easily replace
@@penguins2333 I know, but the damage increase is not greater than bringing someone like Fischl or Beidou. In the end it is team dps that counts and it is not better than bringing one of the starting 4 stars
Two things:
1) It's wild how for some time Beidou was thrown to side and was considered optimized as a physical DPS. When people realized how good her electro scaling is she got a lot better, especially after Inazuma and EoSF.
2) Why do they keep giving so many new 4* awesome normal attack animations lmao
Meanwhile five stars like Hu Tao and Mei just straight rip attack animations off old four stars.
"Especially after inazuma and EoSF"
EoSF on Beidou is kinda baity in nature. The 4pc bonus is relying on the base er for the majority of its base gain due to how Beidou only needing 140% er at the worst case scenario (with 2 electros. A 2pc TF and 2pc NO has actually 0%-3% difference to 4pc EoSF (ofc that can go -4% to 9% difference depending on the assumption, actually practically speaking, TF + NO will be better due to having easier time to get better substats.
Anyway, the only reason why 4pc EoSF is a good addition for Beidou is how efficient the resin sink of that domain compared to the 2pc set. The other reason is you can play solo electro Beidou without ER being a big damage loss to her (170-190% ER but over 200% ER is NEVER worth it, 170% is already pushing the ceiling for diminishing returns).
EoSF is barely a best in slot for her (arguably not even a BiS for her). It just made farming for her more efficient.
@@gilberthamilton9312 Hu Tao doesn't have any animations copied from a 4star neither does Ei. What are you on about .
Who does Hu Tao have copied animations from? The only 4star polearm in the game at the time of her release was xiangling lmao spear characters all have entirely unique animations from every other weapon type and among themselves. Seriously, just do all their strings and you'll see that every single one of them has their own animations for their normal attacks.
As for Ei, again, no. She doesn't have copied animations from any 4star(lmao which 4star polearm character has teleporting in their animations for her to copy?). Every polearm character has their own animations.
If anything, her animations come from HoT Mei in honkai.
@@justsomeguy727 My bad, not Mei. No such character. Yae Miko. All her attacks are reskins of Lisa's attacks. Hu Tao has Xiangling's charged attack and charged attacks are the main thing she do.
@@gilberthamilton9312 You mean Hu Tao having the basic charged attack of a polearm user? It's not copied. It's basic.
It saddens me that when talking about the 4 stars, Diona is often not mentioned enough. She's such a good non-broken unit that's built for a specific niche (freeze) but is not strictly tied to that due to her other utilities. :(
she is literally -better- more universal than Zhongli because of good healing and having access to sac weapon. Also her being 4* makes much easier access for constellations
edited: pls stop writing me that im delusional or something like that because of not very good opinion of a shield archon
Its not that she's not appreciated enough, its just that Fischl, Bennett, Xiangling, Sucrose, and Xingqiu are literally on top of all 4 stars in the game rn
She's only mentioned the insanely op ones. They are on another lvl even compared to 5*. Characters like Diona and Beidou are still very strong and at 5* lvl. The OG 4* are definitely the strongest characters in the game even when including 5*.
Diona is a bit strange for a Genshin character to be honest.
She's a shielder, healer, and battery all in one. But at the same time, she's also a cleanser, speed buffer, stamina reducer, and damage mitigator, all on top of also being able to provide em at c6. (Her c4 would have made her a decent shieldbreaker even, if not for icd.) However, these niches are mostly insignificant.
She's like a jack of all trades, a strange amalgamation of skillsets that I'd expect to see in Honkai, not in Genshin.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@yurimiracle7768 Also, no, not necessarily as someone who tried for Diona const on her last banner rate up. 4 stars have no guaranteed except in shop, so it really is RNG, even with rate up. She's also not better than Zhongli, what she is, is a good alternative, better sometimes, worse others.
It just refreshing when Sevvy explains specially the part 12:22 that is so true. Imagine pulling for a character you wanted to play and instead of getting a guide from a content you get an opinion of saying just do not play that character but play this one instead. More power to you Sevvy
This. If a content creator just say "you should play this instead because they are better" then why bother watch their content
@@irgiefarras I can think of a few popular content creators that are meta whores that have said this. =)
@@irgiefarras When I see that you know the meta is getting stale with how broken the older characters are
@@fancymustache3793 hutao and raiden rn is the most meta main dps atm. And if u are familiar with meta can u mind telling me some teams with over 50k dps?
@@iamthesenate8825 I am not usually payjng attention to the meta besides support characters and the common "OMG they are so busted" dps like hutao, ganyu, ocasionally eula, amd raiden. When it comes to 50k dps its hard to reach that kind of damage consistanly since not everybody has no icd on their charge attacks or just big enough multipliers to reach that like raiden but id say most pyro dps like yoimiya, klee, diluc if your old fashion dont fall too far behind by sheer single target numbers
There weren't a lot of 4* in the beginning.
Any new 4* pretty much filled any role because there were too many gaps to fill, and they weren't pumping out characters left and right. They also have a strategy of appealing to a wide cast of audience, making 5* not feel like a must, not too much swiping pressure (thankfully so, because I would have quit)
Now we have a lot of options, so the 4* are becoming more niche and less OP since there are not as many gaps to fill in as many ways.
I think they could do a bit better in terms of creativity with the new kits, but I think they are still pretty good.
Characters can also become more exciting/interesting/viable depending on what new artifact sets come out as well. 5* instructor set when?!
national team + sucrose + fischl + beidou was available at 1.0
Isn't 5 star instructor set gilded dream
@@naravejtroya1211 It's only for the holder and not a whole team buff.
@@jlbbuena i think thats why its 5 star version, its hasn't to be exact same but better in niche way
@@naravejtroya1211 Then you can’t conclude that Glided Dreams is a 5* Instructor. Usually 4pc Instructor is equipped on the team’s support and proc reactions. Glided Dreams is always on a sub DPS (ex. Yae Miko) or DPS (like Cyno). 4pc Instructor is a team buff that grants the WHOLE team EM whereas Glided Dreams is a solo buff depending on the conditions met (EM or ATK depending if same type or not of the holder’s element).
It's either they want more 4-stars on the niche side or they just want to avoid the quote-on-quote unit powercreep or maybe they don't want to lose sales by making a 4-star that's already strong.
The crazy thing, is that like. It's not exactly like getting peak value out of 4 stars is cheap. Getting a C6 4 star through Gacha can easily quite literally be more expensive than a C6 5 star on rate up.
@@F1ll1nTh3Blanks the thing is that og 4stars are way too powerfull if you take in consideration how easy genshin is in the end...
@@eligiobuscema6829 I mean yeah I guess, kinda, although that's not really my point or mutually exclusive either way. I am not sure Razor, Xinyan or starter mains will necessarily agree with you there. That aside, I mean, put it this way, it's not like it's any easier for those or newer 4 stars either way. All face the same RNG equally (hold starters obvs).
It's the last one. Why would anyone want a 5 star when there's a viable 4 star? Yelan and Xinqiu are good examples of that.
@@sjue316 what do u mean. a lot of players want both so they can use them together or in two teams for the abyss. if anything that example works against your point.
Well to be fair there was yun jin and gorou, which were specific but very very good for their own team comps
gorou, sara, yunjin are barely better than bennet in their best case scenario and then additionally just used with bennet on top.
bennet should've been nerfed literal years ago.
@@richardjones8846 indeed some of them should have been nerfed long ago bennet either heal or atk only just like sara xinqou maybe slower hydro applying and no heal/lower interuption stuff, xiangling add the ICD but we know hoyo wont do that at this point as it is too late and if they do it ppl just gonna rage. But somehow i wish they would do it anyway that way majority of new 4* wont feel so lackluster because as u said yunyin and sara and very good aswell i use the 2 often specialy at c6 they are amazing supports just often times they get outshined by the original broken 4*....
@@richardjones8846 when have u seen itto on bennet?
@@richardjones8846 Lawsuits my friend. Can't keep the Pyro Archon Down.
@@arnowisp6244 there aren't any laws being broken by them adjusting characters; i wish people would stop pretending it's about laws.
if that was the case they'd be sued over zhongli. the only things they can't change is what is advertised, and numbers are NEVER advertised.
it's standard practice to move into more niche supports, you can't keep making universal good supports because they'll either be more of the same or just worse/better versions of other characters.
New 4stars are not niche, they just useless
I agree
But said niche characters need to be good in their niche. All of the Inazuma 4 stars except Heizou are trash even in their niche.
@@m4sterred853 Gorou and Kujou sara are pretty good, aren't they? And Heizou is very strong.
@@m4sterred853 Nobody else fills Gorou's role as well as he does, Thoma has a spot on Hu Tao comps for Pyro Resonance and now for Burgeon teams, Kuki is a healer + Hyperbloom trigger (a really good and reliable one let me tell you), the only "universally weak" 4* is definitely Sayu because her kit's weird and there isn't much of a need for her.
This is actually a very good and balance take, as expected from Sevy! I want to add that these new 4 stars actually adds flavor to the gameplay since genshin main theme beside gacha is open world game.
Maintaining "new experience" in overworld is also necessary, same with the meta balancing, so that the player won't get too bored by defeating everything easily with OGs
I think it's just the fact at launch there were fewer units, so the few 4 stars had to be more general purpose to pair with the lack of variety
And newer 4 stars can be more niche and put in certain team comps. Like Gorou being amazing for Mono Geo and Yun Jin being great as a support for Eula or Yoimiya.
They're nore niche but I don't think they're worse. It's just the fact the early 4 stars had a more demanding environment
This.
Other than 4* "quality" what I find annoying is the "drop rate" of new 4*s. Either you get it in your first 10 pull or you go past 70 pulls before they show up.
There's not much they can do about that really, it's the exact same drop rate as the older 4* when they're rated up, but as they add more and more, getting them off rate up is gonna be increasingly difficult. I wish they would just add some of them to the starglitter shop instead. They could have 3 characters in the shop per month instead and everyone would be happy.
Sometimes not even that. I've dropped $100 and not gotten a copy of a certain 4 star before. I've seen people drop $1000 and not gotten a copy of a particular 4 star. Going for 4 star units isn't a good idea. Focus on the 5 star and if you get the 4 star, great. If not, you're not out anything.
thats why you dont pull on banner only for the 4*
@@Akai93 Well, they could use the 5* weapons pity system for the 4* characters, I think it would be a good fit.
@@CosmoJZ That's not a bad idea, it would in fact make specific 4* much easier to get, which is a good thing. But my point was mostly that the drop rate is just as bad for old 4* than new ones
I think they are becoming accessories for five stars and if a few four stars are like that I think that's okay but when recent four stars can't be relevant in the game itself it's quite sad to see and what more worse is the fact that it's easier to get five stars compared to four stars . I honestly wish that if they are going this direction with four stars it should cost less to ascend them and get all their materials
True 100%. Why do we have to risk making hundreds of pulls with little to no chance of getting a desired 4star, that is likely going to be worse than almost any other character you already have, and will cost as much investment to level up as any other actually good character..
The early characters were surely made to be stronger than intended and now, they try so hard to balance them... but most end up underwhelming. Not that they could ever live up to the early characters, but they will never be made to compare well.
There is a little bit of that in 5* land with how strong some of the early characters are, but it's easier to churn out another powerful DPS than a 4* support.
Still sad Chongyun hasn't reached the same noteriaty as his friends in terms of meta.
Honestly an underrated 4* character imo. If 4* characters really are getting worse maybe one day, eventually, my boy Chongyun will get the appreciation he deserves 😭
Same. Although he kind of made his mark on ATK Speed Comps, thanks to his A1 Passive and with the release of the Song of Broken Pines; a Claymore that gives ATK Speed to all Party Members even in Co-op…
I found your channel about like a month or two ago and literally i watch all your videos even though all of my characters are built, just because i like the way you explain everything
no powercreep is a good thing until it happens and then people ask for powercreep 🤣
I think that Hoyo knew well what they were doing.
They've released strong and flexible units to allow us to create good teams with them. After all the holes in team building were sealed they've started to release more niche units.
Except they are not niche, just weak.
@@arany5123 The way the meta community says it, it's sounding awfully more like niche IS weak.
Makes early game easy.
If they don't do at least one thing better than anyone else, it's not niche, it's just weak.
The reason new 4 stars are so bad is because people have to be motivated to pull for 5 stars. In a few years the pool of 4 stars will be very diluted with undesirable pulls. Very bad for new f2p players. Not being able to pull for multiple strong 4 stars in future banners is an indirect nerf to the strong 4 stars of old.
It feels like newer four stars are made with certain characters and set ups in mind rather than generalization. Not just by being niche but by being the near perfect solution to other character’s faults. I know not all of those combinations aren’t meta but it feels like there’s more “unconventional” teams that are achievable and work really well.
i think this is great commentary on the current state of the game. one thing you didn't touch on that i think is relevant for both old and new players is just how much investment a single character needs to even be usable, let alone competitive. as someone who can 36* abyss with the same 2-3 teams each cycle, part of me wants to build these new 4*s like collei and heizou just for fun and a change of pace. but when i start to consider how much mora, talent books, and artifact grinding i would need to do, i'd rather just not build them and save up to perfect my next favorite 5* instead. it feels like a waste to build them.
personally i hope for a mode to be added similar to elysian realm in honkai, not necessarily a rogue-like but a place where old or less powerful characters can be revitalized and made useful or fun again. that's probably a huge hopium overdose though :')
I think that most of the Inazuma units are a energy rework away from being on par with old units, if only they could get bigger stats instead of hoarding Er.
The way I feel about it as someone who doesn’t focus on meta and just play who is fun, people have more options to choose from. The more characters we get the more flexible team comps can be.
Exactly this mate, I don't give a flick about "meta" and just use team members and comps that hardly anyone experiment with, using the same old same old 4 stars makes me grew bored instantly lol.
I disagree with 4 stars expanding in variety at the cost of power. The staple modern 4 star is a buffer that you swap to once per rotation, who is entirely incapable of doing any damage and nearly incapable of maintaining any reactions. And on top of that, their buff only benefits the 5 star on the same banner but sometimes they also get outclassed in their niche. It's getting real old.
I believe you're talking of sara specifically.
@@loco1731 they're talking about Sara and are still objectively incorrect which is hysterical lmao nobody buffs electro dmg the way Sara does so the whole "outclassed in their niche" tagline is simply false. The "entirely incapable of doing any damage" is also false. They built their Sara with no actual damage stats and act like she doesn't contribute 200K bombs to her team's rotation dmg when properly invested.
The downplaying of her is borderline comedy. She provides much more of a buff for electro dmg than gorou does for Geo and her atk buff is bigger than the amount of defense gorou gives to a team as well AND she also does infinitely more damage than he does as well, yet for some reason gorou gets overhyped while she gets nothing but flak cause people have massive skill issues with playing her.
@@justsomeguy727 She does if she has constellations tho, the problem with that is she's only feature on raiden's banner meaning that if you already have raiden and dont want to pull you are kinda fucked so bennete is still overall better since he has been in a lot more banners, can buff your entire team including electro which is really useful if you dont only have electro dps (Raiden national is the best example) which results in overall bennete being better.
Great points, Sevy. I have a couple of additional thoughts. OG 4 stars needed to be more universally useful because there were fewer characters. Further, older/longer run characters are more likely to have constellations at this point, especially for people who have been playing longer. So, yeah, I think newer characters will be designed to be more situational. This will encourage pulling even more, especially when the 4-star you need to “meta” your 5-star is on a banner.
I think what people tend to overlook is Hoyoverse's tendency to introduce 'pioneer' units well before their kits are considered relevant. What I mean by 'pioneers' are characters like Thoma, Kuki and Yae who initially seem lacking at best and unplayable at worst--but have since become relevant in later updates.
Thoma, with his slow ICD and persistent Pyro on burst, would make for a poor Hu Tao shielder (arguably the only team he could be slotted in during his release), but now he can also be slotted in Burgeon teams. For Kuki, her EM scaling and consistent skill healing/electro application could now be used in Hyperbloom teams. And for Yae, same thing: EM scaling for Dendro-related reactions. They are pioneers for the succeeding versions' new meta, and what do they have in common?
Unnatural or counter-intuitive kit design on launch. They do not fulfill a current or missing niche; they solve problems that do not exist yet.
I think that it's a pretty nifty thing, even if the characters' subsequent reputation will be colored by their status on launch day. Sure, they may seem weak now, but that's because they're made for a time that hasn't come yet. When that day comes, they will unknowingly fill in the gaps that would have been left there if no pioneers came before.
Yes, this video is about the trend of 'weaker' four star characters being released. They don't measure up to the golden trio because they don't need to be as versatile; they don't need to fulfill multiple roles such as healing, buffing, and energy generation all at the same time; hence, there is no need for another Bennett-like character. What we need are characters who fill the niches we know are unfilled and those that do not exist yet. We need pioneers and, yes, some quirky characters here and there that make the game fun and exciting.
It doesn't seem to happen always however: Ninguang, Xinyan and Chongyun are all early release units without anything they're being pioneered for.
Gorou doesn't give a very good buff for ninguang, she only uses the geo damage component and none of the defence, and she doesn't really like husk over the 1.0 archiac. She's been given nothing over her release.
Chongyun has at most been given shenhe to make anything a "cryo dps" as a meme, and argueably blizzard strayer in 1.2. There's just no use for cryo infusions.
Xinyan isn't 1.0 but the most she has been given is itto's claymore as an upgrade.
You cannot count on pulling a character predicting a pioneer when there's characters who haven't got anything.
You say the lack of powercreep is a downside, I see it as the oppesite. The fact the OG 4stars will never be powercrept means that all subsequent content will never be powercrept as well, they set the bar right at the start of the game, meaning that when you get your perfect team, you'll never "need" to wish again to clear content.
This mistake of mihoyo is the reason im still playing, As someone that cares about meta units I know for a fact nationals will carry me until the end of this game and that all future characters will either be niche or bad. The insentive to pull/spend has dropped so low that its practically none existent. I only pull to try new things that seem fun and dont need to bother worrying about not being able to clear the new spiral abyss because XL isn't good anymore.
Genshin has a complex fighting mechanic, judging the starting characters's kits its pretty clear mihoyo intended us to play these characters very differently than they are played today, and there was alot of oversight when it came to balancing. They screwed up and can never undo their mistakes because of gacha rules, meaning the overall playerbase won.
Honestly I havent had so much fun in the game as I have with Heizou. He may not be considered the best in abyss but his kit is SO MUCH fun and he pumps out more than enough damage than ever needed in overworld content.
I do think there's a happy medium between OP and so niche they're only good in one team. Characters like Diona who can fill shield/heal needs everywhere and shines in certain comps, or Heizou for a strong, fun DPS unit you can build around are my personal gold standards.
My personal biggest concern is the trend upwards in how important constellations are, even for just basic ease of use (looking at you, Sara).
I think there’s one factor you missed and that’s the inevitable downfall of those broken all balanced 4* characters you mentioned. With the game releasing more and more units that scale off hp, defense, em and er Bennett’s value will eventually go down. That’s without talking about the new enemies that have been released that move too much or are too aggressive to actually get a full use off Bennett’s stationary Q in a rotation. Same as Xialing. Yes she has no ICD but that is a problem for her with the current addition of dendro because she applies too much Pyro to burgeon so she ends up burning and that’s a reaction that for the moment is not viable (until we get a burning dedicated unit). I think it’s time to start looking at units for what they bring in their niche instead of hoping they are the side grade of the original 4 stars. Eventually the game will have too many niche characters that the old ones will not be able to fill those dedicated support spots. I also think there’s a psychological factor for people preferring the old vs the new, people don’t like and avoid change. So therefore they have a stronger affinity and liking to what they know works or have longer exposure to.
How about no. The old meta still works. There is no need to use dendro right now at all and it is as far as we know the final element. You think hoyo is going to make vape and melt suddenly not work? If they wanted to do that they would have power crept the shit out of the game already like other asian gatchas do. Similarly they wont just stop making attack scaling characters. That is such a dumb thing to think. You realize every weapon would then become useless because every weapon has flat attack on it. This downfall that you are talking about is just not going to happen. I think they will still be good for what they do, but we will have more options in how to approach combat. That is what I see dendro and all these niche 4 stars as. An alternative option of play, not an eventual replacement.
I see no need for the doomposting.
Personally I just want new 4 stars to feel functional and not feel like something was removed in order to make them not as good as they could have been.
@@Reihjart lmao your a clown you literally didn't understand a thing he said ,they said what they said about Bennett because it's ture his stationary q isn't as easy to land as it use to be and make use because the new enemies and it's been getting more obvious each update move way more and don't just stay stationary as does Benny's ult
@@Reihjart not you literally proving my point “there’s no need to use dendro” in a patch that released the last remaining element? Just say you don’t wanna use dendro. But Dendro will inevitably balance and alter the power levels and meta. It’s not that melt and vape will no longer work, it means their value decreases when the value of other comps rises, you’re being dense.
About the weapon mains stats that truly does not matter, you can work around it. Character’s normals will always scale with atk this ain’t new, but it’s not what their kit wants you to use. Yelan proved that already.
It's not really that bennet will get worse because of new characters. If they continue the trend, bennett will have the same value as always, but other characters' value will grow. This is an important distinction because, despite eventually having more team-building options, a bennett-based team will continue to dominate the meta, even though there are other options that can also do so. The question then becomes if that's a problem or not.
I am not seeing this inevitable downfall you speak of. I have used basically the same 2 teams to 36 star the abyss for over a year. Xiao, Albedo/Chongyun, Zhongli, Bennett/Mona and Yoimiya, Xingqiu (recently changed to Yelan), Beidou/Fischl, Diona. I don't use any of the new 4 stars for anything except casual exploration. This is the problem. There is no incentive to use these new 4 stars when you can already clear all of the hard content with the originals. Why fiddle around with strange icd's, less damage, and questionable synergies when you don't have to?
Characters are not the problem, they are all well designed and thought out. It has been said multiple times that there are no bad characters in Genshin.
The problem is the Abyss, and the unreasonable unfair difficulty and expectations, that even the well invested 5* stars can't match up to. It's just this one endgame challenge that needs to be adjusted or changed, not the characters. Notice, while you play in the overworld, or anywhere else except the Abyss - this problem is non existent
If they introduce more powerful characters, 4* or 5*, the Abyss will just get harder again, and we would be left with even worse problems and balance issues.
As much as it feels good to get a character, whether 4* or 5*, it feels underwhelming when the one endgame (abyss) relies on meta and you have to bring the same 4* supports 😪 I, for one, do not like Bennett or Diona's gameplay but built them solely for abyss. Meanwhile, I love Yae Miko but it's hard to bring her on abyss since she takes so much time to cast her kit.
that's completely false. abyss is so easy that you can do it with any char that you want. of course with some units it's easier than with others but that doesn't mean that to clear abyss you have to rely on those particular char, especially if you are not a beginner player. as for yae miko, being yae one of my favourite char, i can assure you that you can easily clear abyss even with competitive times without using any of the "broken 4* char". if you like i'll be glad to upload a video showing it. (just for records, at the current 3.0 abyss i've cleared all the first half of floor 12 by using Yae, fischl, dendro mc, venti and the second half by using klee+yelan combo)
@@Komi_sensei Definetly invest in Yae Miko, I used her with Dendro MC, fischl, and diona they melted the chicken, you just need to learn where to pull the mobs before u do the setup.
@@Komi_sensei I do agree that Yae became better with the aggravate! I love using her with it, and I was able to clear last version's abyss with her... Haven't tried aggravate on this version but we'll see...
The enemies in abyss might be easy but that's not the only factor when things like high ping and not the best hardware make enemies spawn ~30s later, that's like a minute out of the 3min you need to 3* a floor. Having a team that clears it *easier* is the point, then. 🥲 (Which is me on mobile, and why I don't play abyss on mobile)
Also the thing with Yelan is, if you don't have her, Xingqiu is the next best option for vaporize team. Might make my first sentence not fully true, but doesn't change the fact that he's a broken 4* support one can default to.
in regards to the comment about heizou not being as good as sucrose i will have to disagree due to heizou being a dps/nuker rather than a cc support and em buff like sucrose heizou is a mostly well rounded character in my opinion and don’t fully see the point in comparing him to a character with completely different roles and playstyles
I'm perfectly fine with newer 4* not being as universaly strong as the older ones. In fact, one of my favourite recent-ish 4* is Gorou for what it does to the game. Extremely niche, but he single handely spawned a brand new comp. That's what i'd like to see from future 4*.
I think the best 4* are indeed the early release 4* being that on my list:
1. Bennett
2. Xingqiu/Xiangling
3. Fischl
4. Sucrose
5. Diona
6. Rosaria
7. Ningguang/Yanfei
I say make 4 start constellations more powerful. I say a C6 4 star should be as powerful as a standard 5 star at the very least.
If they do the reverse we would then be complaining of a different issue. It is what it is. Pick your poison.
Powercreep in Honkai is insane to the point people left. Maybe this community want that more?
Much of the complaints on 4-stars is a metaslave issue honestly (or at least a mentality shared with the hardcore gamer-base of Genshin). Like...sure it's expensive to build a unit but, if someone already have a roster of decent units to clear the DPS slogs why the fuck wouldn't they branch out and keep complaining that the game is getting stale?
And it always makes me wonder why people are surprised about the metaslave narrative...that there are more "waifu>meta" commenters than meta>waifu (even though in the grand scheme of things waifu=meta)
Personally speaking, i think another reason i use OG four stars more than recent four stars is because they're all almost c6 by now. I recently got c4 sara and now am able to use her as a main dps and she's one of my faves to play but before i got her cons i barely ever used her. Recent 4 stars (i.e. shinobu) dont seem to feel as satisfying to play at c0 unlike the OG's who had very strong kits without needing cons, but now we have their cons too so they're just even more powerful. Ig thats just an issue to do with the nature of mihoyos gacha and how long it takes to accumulate constellations for 4 stars anyways.
Yep, today's formula for characters is hiding their kit potential behind constellations. Both 4* and 5* are following this pattern onwards.
PS: C6 Sara is nothing to compare to C5 and below since she buffs 60% CRIT DMG value.
Honestly I think it's not a bad ideia to make more balanced units. The problem is, some of them doesn't feel good to play at all. I simply detest how Thoma works, for example, while I like a lot Sayu's gameplay. Not every new 4★ needs to be broken, as long as they play their role right.
Thoma pairs up nicely with the reactions that the community generally considers "undesirable" like Overload. Yae's annoyingly-short Normals work with him rather nicely for instance because it isn't a problem if they bounce away.
@@ryllharu Thoma actually currently has a pretty good chokehold on the burgeon teammaking realm
I just get 4stars for the sake of collecting. Few are my most useable
Thoma found a place in burgeon teams, but his kit still feels so wrong. They definitely crippled his kit on purpose, like I don't understand the point of his elemental skill, makes me sad since I really like thoma
@@aventurussy His elemental skill summons a shield, which is useful for tanking burgeon self-damage
What i hope for the future are skill improvements or maybe change/upgrade, or maybe additional passives or for the highest point a skill tree.
Some talents/constellations should be reworked since are outdated or too basic
I think it's weird that nobody even considers the possibility that the standard roster of 4* characters is so extraordinarily useful by design. I think it's intentional. Just like with Honkai, Mihoyo's primary strategy for selling new characters is their personality and appearance, not their meta value. You pull because "ooh I really like them" not "oh I need this character to be competitive" or whatever. But they don't want all the characters to be the same, and they want to be able to use a wide variety of challenges and scenarios. Thus having a powerful and flexible base kit of 4* characters means you're likely to have the teams you need for a given challenge.
Think about Hu Tao, for example. She really wants an off-field hydro applicator so she can vaporize, and a shielder so she can safely remain at low HP. If you didn't have Xingqiu and Diona as possibilities, a large number of potential Hu Tao enjoyers would be discouraged from pulling her or pull her anyway and then get frustrated by her limitations without a proper team to back her up. When she's on a banner and has a test run available, do they pair her with Yelan or Kokomi and Zhongli? No, they pair her with basic 4*s, just like every 5* test run, because they want you to feel assured that you've got the other three characters you'll need to make whoever this is work if you like them.
The fact that you can just use these core team builder characters all on their own in the National team is a potential downside on Mihoyo's part of this strategy, but regardless of how good that team is, has it ever stopped you from wanting a different character? If not then I'm sure they're fine with it.
I still think the "main problem" is that the abyss only requires two teams, and potentially two more as subtitutes depending of the abyss cycle, if they added more floors perhaps it would be better it we requiere more teams like 5 or 6 without repeating units, that would actually incentive players to build more characters, plan their teams, do strategies and not just go unga-bunga
i feel like adding 5-6 teams is wayy too much, especially for f2p players. I'm okay with only 2 teams but i would like for them to add more floors
...The Perilous Trail event already solved that problem, did it not?
@@Eurasian_ you could say that... but it didn't stay!
@@Eurasian_ Yes, that event is better than spiral abyss and very enjoyable because we get so many interesting buff and team rotation. Hoyo should make abyss like that.
Is there a problem with just going unga bunga? I mean a lot of characters are enjoyable because they are simple unga bunga playstyle which a lot of players enjoy more anyway
BroDong answered this question in detail in the early days of his podcast. Those were mandarin only videos as the international translation team hasn’t entered the picture yet. BroDong says Hoyo knew exactly what they were doing, and the XLs and Bennys of Genshin were there to protect the interests of the truly F2P players, who could only using these characters clear almost all the content. Now that they gave a solution to these F2P players, of course subsequent four star characters aren’t going to be as good. It’s like how at 3.0 and again in 3.1, they gave u a free Collei. So u can participate in dendro plays even if u spend no money.
I'm somewhere in the middle of I like being kinda meta type of situation but still wanna have a odd team the looks more like a casual one
and personally design plays a huge role for me , I haven't used my Xiangling every since I got a yanfei . even tho I know perfectly well what Xiangling can do I just haven't felt like using her cuz her design feels more like a 3 star . it has almost no detail compared to other 4 star character so makes her boring too look at ( sorry xiangling mains )
so personally idc if new 4 star are more balanced or a bit weaker . if I like them enough I'll find away to use them and make em as strong as they can be . Candace is someone I'm looking forward too just cuz she fits everything I like and I need hydros anyway even if she won't be as good as Xingqiu. I'm sure I'll find a use fir Candace so I'll get her
(slightly off topic but) the comment section is a gem. a lot of additional points & healthy discussion
I just want to pull a new 4 star and be able to use them on a team where I feel like another 4 star wouldn't just be a better option
I’ve had this feeling for so long like as much as I adore Collei because of her lore the last 4 star to feel ‘good’ (in my personal opinion) was Heizou. We had some amazing 4 stars at the release of the game and some new ones every now and then but some of them just aren’t strong enough to fill a slot in teams and it’s upsetting because some of them have such strong compelling stories and personalities to make you as the player want to summon but their gameplay just doesn’t stack up :((
I'm also unhappy about Collei, I really like her personality and design but it feels like MHY handicapped her potential on purpose :/
@@ph5.484 She's going to be a free reward for spiral abyss like Xiangling and ofc they can't make a permanently free 4 star character good like her
Very important clarification: A lot of the early 4 star units were not very good to begin with. People point out xiangling bennet xq and then ignore razer, amber, barbara, ningguang, and xinyan. Most people would (and do) call a majority of our y1 4 star units dogshit for having more niche roles and playstyles from the start.
I massively disagree with the sentiment that mhy is trying to make new units "weaker" than our original set, as even with the original set of characters we had, there were massive holes certain units couldnt fill as well. We had no def steriod/good character slot for geo teams, there was nothing for auto attack-based playstyles other than taser (which were just worse sucrose teams at that point), you couldnt buff your electro units without bennet AND electro units tend to need a lot more energy than what bennet can provide, and you only have one sucrose (on-hit anemo catalyst). Hell, even thoma is still useful in hu tao teams because not everyone is gonna waste primos on zhongli and "resistance to interruption" means practically nothing. In general, people tend to disparage units that arent generalists.
and also, people really tend to forget that the meta by the time trash the 4* more than ever. Bennett was disliked, Fischl was only seen as viable as a physical DPS, Beidou was compared to Razor for DPS and not for her support capabilities. Sucrose was just Venti for the poor and unlucky ones, Xiangling was just seen as the worst option after Diluc for a Pyro DPS.
I really don't think having one free copy of a character justifies them being worse than Traveler :/
Yunjin is probably the best four star they've released since Diona. She's very busted with ayato. Just need more normal attack focused characters for her shine to show through.
Candance, the new four star next patch would be a hydro normal dmg bonus buffer which could be also good with ayato to be stacked with yunjin buff along with VV shred.
This is exactly the reason why game devs should never listen to the "pros" or "sweaty grinders". It will kill your game.
Every player that is new to the game is always first a casual. Later they might turn into a grinder and expert. But at first its always casual. And so many people that have the best of the best say "the open world is too easy" and "the abyss is too easy" and "this character is weak" yet many people are having fun with what they get and play with a lvl 50 char not knowing they need to ascend them.
Every character so far is strong enough. And that is fine for me. Because at the end of the day. There is already so many characters that a grinder has no real reason to get more of them. It only puts more things they need to invest in on the table. And the people that want that character probably want them because they like them or they like theyre part in the quests etc. And they will make that character work. Like people who use only Amber to do all the bosses.
And in a way it would be worse sometimes to have a strong 4* that you then also want to get. I remember when I was pulling for Yae and I didnt get a 4* banner char while getting C1 Yae. There is no guaranty you will get that 4* if you are unlucky you will even never get it.
I don't mind if newer 4 star characters or even 5 stars are niche or considered less then others, even if they are only limited to one type of playstyle, also despite one some people will say, I don't think there are any bad characters because they can all be viable with the right team and build, plus we don't need every character to be as "universal" as characters like Bennett, Xiangling and Xingqiu. Ayato is one of my favourite characters and I can use him with Yunjin instead of Bennett but then again I rarely ever use Bennett, I can clear the abyss with 36 stars and have not once used Bennett (or Xiangling) in it (I've even used Thoma and Kuki in the abyss). I also like my mono geo team with Gorou as the buffer. Though it would suck for people who like a character's design and personality but can't make use of their kit properly but for me, I have not had that problem yet, but this is just my opinion.
What I find funny is that people probably don't really hate the idea of niche supports, they just hate that they don't buff their already-strong meta characters like Xiangling/Raiden/Ganyu. People hate Gorou because he is "niche". People hate Yun Jin because she is also "niche". But people hate Thoma because he is "weak", people hate Sara because she is "clunky", and people hate Shenhe because she "could have been a 4-star with that kit". Had Thoma been the perfect Pyro shielder for Hu Tao, had Sara been easier to use, and had Shenhe been a 4-star, their reception would be much better. Simply because they buff meta characters.
My only hope rn is that when - and if mhy ever releases Yaoyao in the future, - she can fulfill the role of a 4* dendro applicator and healer. Which is what a lot of aggravate teams are in need rn. I'm going on a wild guess that this probably won't happen, but if so, that at least Beizhu - bless his soul, mas has been locked under a cave since forever - will be a healer dendro support.
I think also a reason the resent is so strong might also be because of the regions. For example alot of the best characters, the OGs are from Mondstadt and Liyue. Inazuma and Sumeru don't have meta defining units which can add to the problem. As someone who is enjoying the newer regions(Sumeru especially) I personally find it disheartening that it becomes a hassle to find teams to use the newer characters of those regions in a comfortable playstyle, they often have niche or specific roles that limit my options. So for me, I do find it a bit sad but I do understand why Hoyoverse for the balancing. It was be a shocking day when a character like xingqiu or bennett become irrelevant
I feel like the thought that good 4 stars reduce the need to get 5 stars doesn't make sense because in order for the 4 stars to be good they need to have constellations, and we all know that it is MUCH harder to get a c6 4 star than to even get a c2 5 star.
I think that the sentiment that "people only pull and SHOULD pull for 5 stars" is a bad thought process to have. Many and i mean MANY players pull for 4 stars, 4 atars have just as amazing stories as 5 stars and are just as cool as the them design wise as well. 4 stars should not be deemed as "undesirable" when you can just get a shiny 5 star because there are plenty of good 4 stars already.
Hoyoverse needs to realize that 4 stars do sell. Many of my friends pull on banners and even myself just for 4 stars. I have pulled on the hutao banner simply because i wanted a c6 Thoma because I really believed he would be amazing, and even tho he wasn't back then I still loved playing him. If hoyo put the ammount of effort to make characters good as they did back then there would be lots of people wanting to pull for 4 stars. They need to realize that the cheaper units sell too and it's not just a 5 star only game.
The problem that stops player from trying to actually use the newer balanced ones is the thought that you are doing double the investment for half the work done and it just feels like you are wasting time, you would have to grow really attached to a weaker 4 star to make that feeling of wasting so much for so little go away
Fingers crossed for Candace.
Same
They've already nerfed her, according to leaks
Candace bsically makes your whole team a hydro driver
@@quiet_walker19 Really ? Ah, damn !
This video was so articulate, I finally understood what I didn’t understand with the latest trend in Genshin. Amazing video.
I feel that's because they are opting for having niche characters nowdays, the downside is that they are really narrow and not so versatile, requiring specific comps or playstyles to function. But the upside is that they are very unique, and that will increase overall diversity without getting too complex just to avoid overlapping skills
WELL, IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN PLAYERS SHOULD BUILD A CHARACTER WELL ACCORDING TO ITS SYNERGY THESE DAYS.
nigguang, noelle, xinyan, diona, beidou, lisa, kaeya, barbara, razor & amber chilling on the side lines.
At first I was excited when a new 4 star was coming out. Then I realized that since Diona, I haven't used any of the new 4 stars for anything except casual exploration.
I think simply put, they’re not idiots. They know what they’re doing when designing the game. They loaded the game with useful 4 stars at the start of the game to make it continually accessible to new players. And had a staple roster for continuing players-- of which the newer 4 star characters fill in niche roles or open doors for new teams, play styles, combos etc.
The sad thing is when content creators sway the public’s minds with dated reviews that become irrelevant or proven wrong within a few months. Just a few as an example- Kuki, Kokomi and Kazuha.
At the end of the day, Genshin is not a difficult game to play. The hardest content is in the abyss, which is very very optional. You don’t need to stack your team with “meta” units. You can play however you want, with whoever you like and still complete almost all content. Even with the “worst” characters like Xinyan, Sayu or Amber.
The only "mistake" I think they made was Xiangling, I don't think they knew how her ICD was going to break the game. Not that they planned for the others to be this strong, but I think they wanted a strong early core for F2P players to spend their starglitter on. I am actually happy they went with niche instead of power after that, it really helps slow down power creep and my resources on those characters feel well invested since they are not in my "old memories bin". Hoyo does miss the mark on some, but they also made some great "scalpel" characters like Gorou and Shinobu.
Don't worry Noel, I will always remember you are one of the great OGeos...
The fact that the 5-star Geo DPS is tailored similarly to Noelle's kit shows they want her to still shine. imo she's one of the legitimately underrated units in Genshin. Not to Bennett's levels but is very serviceable.
when did people start liking Gorou? when he first came out it felt like people were saying that he was the worst and weakest character ever. now it seems like people actually like him. did he get buffs or was he just never as bad as people claimed?
@@Eclipsed_Embers What do you mean? The only complaining about his was how super specialized he was. He only really works with 3 characters: Itto, Noelle, and Albedo. You basically need those characters to make use of Gorou. If you do not have them then he is useless. Of course pretty much everyone has Noelle but I feel she is only really useful at c6.
@@Eclipsed_Embers Nobody likes Gorou that stayed the same. The only people who will tell you that Gorou is good, are people who play mono Geo comps. But mono Geo comps in itself are not even that good to begin with
@@Eclipsed_Embers people started liking gorou when they got itto or c6 noelle
The game is ever changing. Most doesn't like Kuki but now she is 1 of the best for hyperbloom. Previously most don't like EM but now EM is important etc. Also, it always happen when diversity is introduced, we just need to adjust and make full use of what is available. I also remember you have problem keeping kuki alive with her E having self health depletion... so perhaps it's an individual thing.
I think it's fine that most new 4-stars are more niche. They're designed to enable new playstyles, rather than fit into everything.
The early 4-stars were clearly made to work well in a wide variety of situations with little downsides, which Genshin really needed on release.
Many of the new 4-stars simply wouldn't have a reason to exist without the rest of the extensive character roster.
Finding a balance is probably the hardest thing to do with this. Newer 4 stars being "worse" is what we currently have but thia might be better than newer ones powercreeping everything that comes before.
Personally I only level up dedicated supports for 4* characters. Gorou, Sara, Yun Jin, and Bennett c6. I'm in the process of getting ready for Shenhe, I didn't pull her the first time because I was huffing copium and thought they'd put out a dedicated cryo support for 4*
C6 Bennett, yikes!
@@winyonzentrada eh c6 bennett isn't as bad now
@@winyonzentrada c6 bennett is only bad for physical DPS characters like eula, but eula teams don’t even run bennett in the first place
@@winyonzentrada I have had Bennett at c5 for so long, I got bored and c6d him, it's nice not having the mark on my character icon now
@@mattavarius5119Fair enough, the mark is quite annoying! Like some says, it isn't that bad anymore. As long as you have fun, is what matters in the end.
It seems like you can't please anyone as a developer. If you make every new unit more powerful than the last, people complain about powercreep and how predatory the game is because they force you to throw money at limited banners to keep up with the game. If you start with a bunch of strong characters (and give all of them away for free at some point) and then shift towards more niche supports and alternative playstyles, people complain the new characters aren't as universally strong as the old ones ...
I'll take the latter tbh. It doesn't alienate and considering how the game is catered to casual gamers as well, it doesn't force them to be sweaty.
I like to believe that the many who clamor for stronger 4-stars are a vocal minority.
I love how you always present "Fair" views upon things. I personally don't use any of the national team characters. For me, they're boring. But I do acknowledge their meta viability. I just never cared about it. For me the newer four-star characters are more story telling pieces and more diverse overall which makes them more fun to play for me. Everyone is going to look at it from the own perspective. Thanks for acknowledging those unique perspectives.
There’s nothing like the happiness of not giving a fuck about “meta” and playing with any character that you like even if it’s not “the best”
Most of the new 4 star units are compared to the OG 4 stars and are immediately 'bad' because they aren't as strong. Just because a character isn't the game-breaking and overpowered character that the OG 4 stars are, doesn't mean they don't have their teams. Gorou and Yun Jin are good examples: strong supports, just niche, yet they fit in certain team comps much better than Bennett or any of the old ones.
Yunjin isn't even niche. She already supports many dps in the game, like Eula, Yoimiya, Ayato and Razor. Obviously we're going to have even more NA 5* units in the future that need her buffs.
Gorou isn't niche either. As of now he supports only Itto and Noelle. It's not a case of Gorou being niche, it's just a case of us not having many defense-scaling geo DPS. Obviously defense is going to be the main geo stat moving forward
@@maiseree1511 "Gorou isn't niche"
He is literally the definition of a niche character. Name 1 non-Geo team that Gorou is functional. Exactly. He's great in 1 team archetype, and he doesn't do anything in other teams. In other words, he's niche.
"It's not a case of Gorou being niche, it's just a case of us not having many defense-scaling geo DPS."
Even if they release more defense-scaling Geo characters, he would still be niche. His niche is exactly that... to be played in defense-scaling Geo teams. He is only functional in those teams.
If Gorou isn't niche, then idk what niche even is to you
@@maiseree1511 "they arent niche"
you: literally describing niche
@@maiseree1511 Sorry man, but Gorou is niche. He doesn't support anyone other than defense scalers at the moment and there's literally only two units that work.
Is niche dude
But goro is really strong for buff those character
I compare goro with bennet, the result is beyond my expectation
Goro c0+favonius= bennet c5+*5wp
not only that, the goro mechanism is not a buff area like bennet, but follows an active character, so its use is more comfortable than the buff bennet, you can be free anywhere
I also noticed this. It took some time for the meta to establish - i have seen ranking from release putting Bennett in D tier - and MiHoYo could not possible know every units performance.
The original 4-stars tend to be more versitile compared later characters to make up for the lower variety at launch - bennett can heal and dmg buff; xingqiu does elemental application, off field dmps and even a bit of healing.
My guess is MiHoYo wanted to buff up the limited rooster and replace the jack-off-all-trades-but-master-of-none characters with specialists later - that is the reason why qiqi is a 5star and bennett a 4star.
However 4 slots in the team sound many but they are used up quick, needing a main dps, elemental application, healer, swirler, batterie and sub dps - supports have to at least over two roles and the top old 4stars are just two good in at least two off them.
The supprising thing is lack in power creep for the 5stars.
Ganyu has been the benchmark for main dps since her release and no new character has surpassed her.
But also the content does not get harder to require newer more powerfull units.
I remember getting into Inazuma as a player that started after Inazuma release and lacking the grind off longer term players and it was tough, making me afraid that Sumeru could be a power (and wallet) check.
But Sumeru is easier then Inazuma with the enemies going down as fast as in Liyue. I had the problem with the Graven Innocence event that the bosses were dying to quikly and i had to stop and wait for them to do the thing required and checked in the event.
Genshin made me realise that power creep in video games is like inflation in an economy.
to mutch is devastating, but you need a bit off it for things not to become stale and forcing people to innovate.
Most of the powercreep in this game happen with the 5 star's constellation. Look at Childe's constellation for example, none provide a power increase. Now look at Ayato and Yelan, their constellations grant them some level of increase damage. For 4 stars however, it more like a powerdip. Hoyo's "new" standard for 4 stars is to keep them on par with Yanfei's power level or less than that. At this rate, I won't get excited anymore for the next 4 star. Since Hoyoverse is ramping characters releases to keep up with their schedules, most of their attention would likely be focus on 5 stars and 4 stars would barely get any much thought put into their kits.
_taps forehead_
Can't be called out as power-creeping when the bar doesn't move - Mihoyo, probably.
Honestly, I’ve even been noticing that four stars have been designed to be super unique but ultimately weak or slow DPSs or super niche supports. I find myself only considering leveling the 4-star characters if they can support my main DPSs in some way. I mean, I’ve been kind a feeling something similar about 5 stars, in that they’re more or less starting to get designed to be main DPSs or drivers now. Kinda hard to justify spending the money for a 5 star support and that’s probly the reason for the shift.
I think this connects to a broader issue Genshin will run into and that's simply running out of ideas for good characters as the game progresses. I think they know this as well, so they're reserving the best kits for future 5 Stars which will make them more money and making the 4 stars more niche which is forgivable since most players want strong 5 stars anyway and will have Xingqiu, Bennet and Xiangling already
Yeah, they seemed like they were definitely experimenting when it came to Heizou, and I don't know if you saw Candace or Cyno gameplay, but they are experimenting with other stuff rather than strictly adhering to those 5 weapons from the start, which is a good thing IMO. It gives them more options to be creative with fun gameplay, even if they aren't the strongest.
If you look at their other game, Honkai, you can see some really weird kits that stretch the definitions of what the buttons you're pressing mean. One day we're going to get a Genshin character where you spam Q to attack, where there's a difference between a hold and tap ult, where the skill is swapping between multiple completely different playstyles and unlike Tartaglia you're gonna be doing it on the fly all the time instead of his massive CD. If they're really desperate, they can add R to attacks to come up with even weirder kits. I think the game would have to last an incredibly long time for their kit designs to get boring.
Well, without powerful well-invested 4*, dealing with abyss would be a lot harder I guess. They're not mistakes as we need them. And selling good 4* contributes to HYV's income too. We need to pull for them too anyway so I don't think limiting 4* capability is a wise choice. I hope Candace won't be disappointing as I like her a lot already.
A theory I heard is that earlier characters had to have more functions because there weren’t as many options available. For example, Diona is a shielder and healer and cryo battery because there weren’t enough healers and shielders and cryo batteries among the other available characters. Especially in the early days, Diona was pretty much the only shielder. That’s also why XQ’s skill heals and reduces damage, for example. The roster was much smaller so the chars had to be more versatile
Honestly, when you get close to ar 60, you can full clear abyss with whatever. Since mihoyo doesn't plan on adding new combat endgame, what's even the point of pulling for new characters other than boredom or addiction?
Powercreep Diluc all you like, as long as he's enough to get me through abyss (that half an hour every 2 weeks of "real game" that I get) I'm set.
benny boi still the best!
they really overdid the early 4*, so they either had to make more broken 4* or more niche 4* that are overall weaker, but are better than the early ones in their specific niche
Hoyoverse’s new 4*s is a prime example of never letting us know their next move. Hoyo: Power creep? Oh you thought!
Honestly I feel like when it comes to early 4stars they were either broken or just miserable to play with no inbetween I mean we have Xiangling then we have Amber we have Fischel but on the flip side we have Lisa so it feels like Mihoyo is trying to find that sweet middle ground rather than just making 4stars one extreme or the other
In my experience, I literally used yanfei more in the abyss when I got her than I used diluc in any way because she is just more powerful than him, especially when she has more constellations
Yes, Diluc is bad, but Xiangling outclasses both him and Yanfei by a huge margin.
@@arany5123 is that so even in c6? Maybe I overlooked xianglings potential because I've built her full er in my abyss team
@@renegacy6428 Xiangling is an off-field dps, Yanfei and diluc are on field.
Having said that, building Xiangling with er sands and weapon is not that bad if you are using EoSF, and yeah, if you use her with Bennett and Xingqiu she could be even better than Hu Tao
This is kinda true. I don’t really see any 4 stars being meta unless it’s a new element
I'm thankful that MHY doesn't rely on players' and content creators' opinions when it comes to character designs. Players expectations should always be taken with a huge chunk of salt because what they want to see in characters does not always align with the long term health of the game. I hate to say it, but videos like this is just populist pandering that encourages the type of discussion that is frankly toxic.
First time I actually saw a sensible comment not harping on how expensive it is to build x character lol.
I'm fine with the OG 4-stars power-level, but when they get shoved in my face is another issue (which again, contributes to how dificult this topic is to discuss without an apparent shitstorm or blame-shifting metaslaves)
The archons having specialties are also worrying as there shouldn't be a better grouper than Venti (although Kazuha comes REALLY close), a better shielder than Zhongli, or a better battery than Raiden. What happens when we get a healer archon? hell, what happens when we get a dps archon?
Hoyoverse is really afraid of giving us very good, more accessible (starglitter shop) 4 star characters. And now we're stuck with a few niche 4 stars.
good video essay. i just want to add one thing:
very interesting that you include rosaria among the busted 4 stars. she's very strong in some team comps, but she's not really in the same tier as beidou.
Rosaria's the best cryo character in game after Ayaka, Ganyu and Eula (which is an absurdly high bar already). One of the top meta Ayaka teams has her and at C6 she turns into a solid Eula support. Other than that she's also absurdly versatile, being good in both physical, melt and permafreeze teams and has batterying capabilities and crit rate buffing abilities. She's all of the cryo element's best attributes, in a free package.
Beidou's good but there are a few things that hold her back, like her energy cost and how she doesn't cover all realms of electro teams as much, like physical teams or aggravate and hyperbloom
She is good, wym? She can be a battery, a cryo or physical dps, a physical support, she can be use in freeze team or reverse melt. Basically she's a versatile unit with no disadvantages.
She is good but no way is she as busted as some of the OG 4 stars.
I used her for a bit and settled on using Diona in the end. If you no longer need her crit rate buff she loses usefulness since you get so much crit from Blizzard Strayer set. For me Diona is more useful overall because she provides healing + shield which is good against enemies that can not be frozen. I suppose if I had Kokomi I might use Rosaria instead but since I have Mona I prefer Diona.
From 2.0 to 3.0 out of 9 characters only 4 of em are considered good imo (heizou, yun jin , gorou and sara) heizou is great at dealing big damage that can compete with 5 stars, yun jin basically buffs characters like yoimiya and eula, gorou only buffs geo characters and sara just makes raiden more op...
Even then, an argument could be made that despite how overall good Sara might be, it's not unfair to say she feels a little clunky to play which to some makes seem not as strong. Gorou and Yun Jin are perfect examples of really good characters that fill a specific role and should be how future 4 stars are created. Having Yun Jin buff all normal attacking characters and Gorou giving an awkward isolated element a solid boost via his support kit and shaping how you want to build Geo really opens up certain teams and playstyles a little more.
@@lukegreaves574 yeah, i was accually planing on saying the same thing on sara but yeah i totally agree with you.
Imo, toma and kuki is also good 4 star after dendro, and i'm not sure about heizou because as far as I use him, he doesn't perform that well in his comp compared to yun jin, gorou, sara, toma, and kuki in their comp
Oh and we also got dendro MC (dunno if he is included as 4 star) which is very good for off-field dendro applier
@@vinsara3782
1. The traveler is a 5 star i believe
2. Even after dendro buffs , there are much better characters than kuki and thoma tho they did get buffs to be completely honest but that doesnt mean theyre good enough for meta
3. I agree on the heizou part im just saying that his damage is above avarage in terms of 4 stars
I dont know why Hoyo doesnt just have a major buffing update where they increase the gap between old 4 stars and all 5 stars so that any new 4 stars can be made on the same level as old 4 stars without allowing 4 stars to compete with 5 stars... it would shift the amounts of damages considered to be good but would fix the issue that Hoyo is facing in this regard
What I learned from this video, stop pulling for characters. Honestly, I only want a dendro healer, Cyno, and Eula. Those are the last characters I ever want to pull for this game. After that, weapons are my priorities. I'm getting really tired of farming for characters especially when I'm already clearing the abyss. I have three out of five teams that I want to build and after I get those three necessary characters for those last two teams, I'm done pulling for a really long time in this game because I see that there's really no point. At least until a new meta-defining character like Kazuha comes out
People always throw around the phrase "broken" but it's just complete hyperbole click-bait. These "broken" characters are just top tier, they don't break the game at all. Sick of hearing it.
Honestly, this annoys me so much, that every time there's people who either trash on a new 4* because they're "not Bennett/Xiangling/Xingqiu/Sucrose level" or call any banner that doesn't feature at least one of them trash. It makes me mad.
I think it does make sense to explore niches and new possible playstyles instead of creating universal characters. That way there's new opportunities for players to explore, too, and the new characters don't powercreep the older ones and aren't copies of the older ones. I always prefer having a fun character, whether they're meta or not.
In the short of it, pull for the OG 4* when they have a rate up or save if you have them around on where they are with their cons. Inazuma and Sumeru 4* is a neat alternative or can carry you depending on your Account.
I always look at Newer 4* Stars as Nice Sidegrade for people who have the Original Major 4*. Collei is good for Close Dendro Application with her Burst and Floral Brush Passive, but you have to keep in mind of her Passive to make use Ascenscion Passives to work around.
It's not easy, heavens no, but she is good alternative if you don't wanna build Dendro Traveler or don't want to use them either way. C2 alleviate's Collei's Passive much better, but nobody can be that lucky or would love to save for better characters in the future.
I noticed Hoyoverse are putting the Liyue and Monstadt 4* sparingly as of late, but 3.0's Second Batch has Sucrose and Xinqiu. But as they said, never pull for 4* if you are the type on Pinching your pulls for other Characters or even 5*.
I find it kind of weird that they're this afraid of making the 4* characters actually good. If not having them overshadow new 5* is the worry, all they have to do is make them comparable or slightly lesser than a C0 5* while at C6, because that requires a roughly similar investment to pull. And that doesn't have to be mutually exclusive to usable at C0 either.
It's a shame this is the case, but maybe it's better this way than power creep.
With such shor time to release content, we can't also expect these new characters to be super inovative either.
I predict all 5 stars in 3.X version to be heavily focused on specific Dendro reactions as well. It makes sense 'cause if you keep making characters niche like that, it's less likely you will run out of ideas to explore in the future. But to me that doesn't sound very exciting. The initial 4* are great not just because they are strong, but because they often allow you so many different playstyles.
Anyways, good video. Always fun to see this type of discussion.
At the beginning game was balanced around 4* characters, where 5* were luxury. Now there are almost no new 4*, game is balanced around 5*, and new 4* are made intenionally weak to not be able to overshadow 5* who need to be sold.
Tbh I think what hoyo is doing is very smart. They had a similar issue that wizard of the coast had with magic the gathering. Older stuff was just way more powerful than newer stuff. Prior to 2019 it was rare that newer cards made an impact on older formats. The 1.0 4 stars have the similar issue, Bennett being comparable to Raiden, zhongli, and kazuha in usage isn't a bad thing but it's bad for game, in regards to power creep, to want units stronger than him that dont come with a down side. Niche 4 stars allow for testing of unique and weird design that they can hopefully refine and tune in a 5 star variant. If not it's whatever.
Well spoken, to expect future 4 stars to be "good" will lead to disappointment. Hopefully more of them will find their niches
"good" imo is subjective. If the standard of good is the OG 4-stars then it's gonna be disappointing for sure.
Personally every unit has a contribution to the roster. It just takes very little care for who's meta and more care for what's needed to be done
I like how everyone seems to bash about Bennett and nobody talks about how Fischl is getting more broken than ever, especially with the introductionary of dendro reaction because lets be real, electrocharge is weak.
Also, more often than not, newer 4 stars requires high constellations (c6 Sara/Gorou/Yunjin) so they are more demanding to get, especially when they are fresh new on release and happens to buff their respective hyper carry greatly.
I think in the early days the developers at Mihoyo weren't entirely sure of the direction the gameplay would go in. There are some janky design decisions in some of the early characters where it seems like they were still figuring things out and those core 4*s are still ridiculously powerful coming up for two years later. Now that they've figured out how people are playing the game and using the mechanics, they're trying very hard to balance the game by making much more niche, less powerful 4*s. If a 4* is as good as a 5* or better, why would someone bother to get a 5*? I think they're trying to push 5* sales in a way.
I'd wager they're still not sure where to take the gameplay, as they're selling characters whose abilities interact in such powerful ways with one another that you'll struggle to find an enemy in the game that can put up a decent fight against the incredibly overpowered characters and even more overpowered team compositions.
Yeah, they probably didn't think people would use XQ to vape XL's pyronado. Or that they would swirl hydro and Fischl's electro together using Sucrose. How could they anticipate that? They threw hundreds of millions at the development of this game but when it comes to the combat system they obviously just put in a bunch of random numbers and then waited to see what players would do with it. Sure.
@@cryoboy Considering their farcically spastic and inconsistent quality control so far that unfortunately sounds rather less like the sarcastic hyperbole it's meant to be and more like a relatively credible take.
@@cryoboy look at how they made Xinyan and tell me they knew what they were doing. Look at Diluc's charged attack passive. He might have been intended to be played with charged attacks after using his burst (based on his passive talent at least), but that's not what works best for him. Look at the fact that Diona gets Cryo damage bonus instead of HP on ascension. And these are just the janky things I remember off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many, many more.