The Problem With 4 Star Characters In Genshin Impact
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- Опубликовано: 23 дек 2022
- 4 Star characters in gacha games are naturally meant to be less powerful or efficient as 5 Stars to offset their lower rarity, but most well designed gachas find a way to retain their usefulness in any possible way. Genshin faces a growing issue where many 4 stars (not all, but many) aren't necessitated in any way, causing many of them to be neglected or not invested in. Today we're gonna discuss why that's the case.
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#GenshinImpact #Character #4Star 
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Merry Christmas Eve everyone! ☺️
Happy holidays!
Merry Christmas to you too Vars!
Merry Chris… ah shoot.
I hope you had a merry Christmas Vars.
Playing casually since the beginning and still cant clear spiralabyis.
Mainly fail on dmg checks.
Var saying, "We have never had a 5 star character for free since release" and showing a clip of Aloy just staring into oblivion while hiding behind a tree is so evil and I love it.
She's not a 5 star tho
@@razor5694 she is
@@razor5694 she may feel like a 3 star but regardless she's still 5 star on paper.
Aloy who?
I don't consider her a free five star since new players can't get her anymore. She was free once, but only to some accounts.
I think the biggest problem with 4-stars is that they require the exact same amount of investment to build as 5-stars. Same amount of EXP and Mora, same amount of ascension and talent mats, same amount of artifact farming, etc. If they cost less resources to build than 5-stars I'd have tried out a lot more of the 4-stars I own by now
exactly this like whenever i’ve considered properly building a 4 star i just think “i’ll probably be pulling for another 5* before i finish building this 4* and using the resin and mora and materials for the 5* would be better so what’s the point”
This, it should be treated like the difference between raising a 4 star and 5 star weapon. 4 star takes 605 ore and 5 star is 907 ore about 34 percent less materials
This comment can easily lead mihoyo to make leveling 5* even more expensive
@@khanjannimavat8135 and why would they do that, if they lowered the amount 4 stars needed why would that affect 5 stars
@@shadex0437 rather than decreasing materials needed for 4*, they might just increase materials needed for 5*
Honestly the only 4 star that very appealing and after version 2.0 is Heizou. Unique basic attack,one punch skill ,Rule34 birthday portrait and decent burst. Even that,he not appeared as much as the magnificent 6 4 star
Btw im talking about Raw damage ,not reaction damage :)
LMAO THE BIRTHDAY PORTRAIT
Well Thoma and kuki(especially) became quite relevant with dendro.
@@debamchakraborty1143 but before that,thoma feel like shit and kuki decent
@@debamchakraborty1143 Thats because dendro is extremely forgiving for what it can do wih little investment
Not to mention just absolutely Demolishing damage if you hit the miracle crit
My main problem with using 4 stars is that they need the same amount of mora, hero's wits, resin, and weapons as 5 star units only to be massively disappointing. If Genshin really wanted players to start using 4 star units more often, they'd need to drastically reduce the amount of resources you need to make them even playable. It's also why I'm not too keen on having bosses with specific weaknesses that only a few units can take advantage of. Even if those units were just four stars, fully leveling and building somebody like ningguang, yanfei, sayu, or any of the other four star units just for one boss would be awful and leave me with no resources to build the other units that I actually like.
thats what i was thinking i recently built my yunjin after i got her c6 and prepared her for when i got yoimiya but it still took a few weeks of getting the boss drops and leveling artifacts with any sort of potential, yes i love her and she is lvl 80 but i had no other geo charcters built even a little so i had to use lvl 50 yunjin in the lvl 80 wolf boss and it was a nightmare
don't ask for something you don't want. if there was a disparity in cost between 4-stars and 5-stars, like there is for weapons and artifacts, we wouldn't be getting a cheaper cost on 4-stars. we would be getting a HIGHER cost on 5-stars than is currently in the game.
EXACTLY
@@Toqrainbow Lmao genshin would deffinetly do that
Exactly. I'm AR58 and legit have 10 teams that a switch between depending on what I feel like. (International, Sucrose taser, Kuki hyperbloom, Kaeya freeze, Tighnari, mono geo Itto, fireworks, Thoma burgeon, Xiao, Yoimiya pew pew). I have several characters I would like to try but the investment is just too high. Like I kinda want to use Rosaria but I don't see how she's going to be much better than my Kaeya 🙁
A tiny correction: Yan fei wasn’t the last 4 star to require on field time. It was Heizou I think. Anyways I agree with the points that you made in the video :)
yeah I was gonna say, have I been using heizou wrong?
@@najiafghan8770 Most of Heizou's damage is in E and Q so the more meta way it to not use much field time
the more fun way for people who like heizou, however, is to punch as much as possible
@@gildanswampert9057 That, and his optimum rotation is usually Q N1C E to get the big punch, since in most team comps he ends up with a 25 cost burst on a 12s CD and his maxed out punch gives him 3 particles immediately. This means you only have to scrape together 16 energy from supports to yeet an airball again, which gives him an incredible amount of stat leeway.
@@gildanswampert9057
The most meta way to use him is either as a driver (like Sucrose in taser) or as a DPS
The reason why: He has 4 charged on his E and you need all 4 charges to do big damage. Now, you can be a sitting duck and waste on field DPS time manually charging it up, or you can charge it up passively with swirling elements with his normal and charged attacks (every time he swirls an element, he gets one charge (and if you have constellations, when you switch to him, he comes in with a charge)) so you have all 4 charges before his cooldown is even off
This is the most optimal way to play him
@@gloop7458 when built optimally, he actually plays closer to an on field sub dps. while his abilities are on cooldown, he does nothing to benefit himself, only benefit the team and their capabilities. His E stacks do build up while his abilities are on cooldown, but they stack up so easily that theyre only a factor for a couple seconds or so, so his utility comes from being a more brute force sucrose who doesnt require constellations (which is both good in the way that his investment is largely just artifacts, talents and levels rather then spending primos, and bad in the way that his supporting and damage ceilings are both lower then sucroses.)
My big problem with 4*'s, especially the newer ones is that it's C6 or bust.
At C0 they're not just bad by comparison but almost unusable because massive pieces of their kit get constellation locked or in the case of the "niche supports" like Sara, Gorou and Faruzan they can't even properly fill their niche without their C6.
Edit: Also... 4*'s are NOT "easier to get", I had a C3 Raiden Shogun before I got a single copy of Sara from the banner, 4*'s are NEVER guaranteed so getting a 5* is actually often much easier for your average player.
Gorou is still a very good character even at c0 he just gets soo much better with cons, but yea sara and faruzan are just unusable
And it's even worse when they refuse to rerun the 4 stars that require c6 frequently. They ONLY rerun Sara on Raiden banners, banners that I and probably others won't need to bother on because we already have her! And even with the others she's paired with, some people might already have them too. Same thing goes for Gorou with Itto, and probably Faruzan with Scara now too. I've been stuck with c0 Sara since she was first released, it's really frustrating to have a character I want to use have their usefulness locked behind something unobtainable.
When people say that 4 stars are easier to get its because a lot of events give 4*, like recently we got a rerun for Dori and Lantern Rite allows you to get any 4* you want for free, these events are not actually that rare, plus some can even be bought with stardust outright.
they said 4 star is easier to get because 4 star is not limited to a single banner. i got sara c2 on raiden banner and now i have c6 sara even if i dont pull on raiden banner anymore. 5* need to be pulled on specific banner and it is expensive to c6. 4* can be obtain from regular banner, events, and limited banner. you might spend 1 year to get that c6 4* but its still cheaper than c6 5*
100000%. I suffered badly to get some of my 4 stars to C6 man. Honestly fuck what they're doing with new 4 stars.
On average, a 4 star from C0-6 on rate up will set you back C1 for a 5 star with average luck, if you're really unlucky C2-3. If you're super lucky, you'll get them up from C0 within within 80 pulls, that's just off hard pitty.
So by this logic A C6 4 star should be at the minimum as good as a C0 5 star would be, this is me being generous and factoring good luck and off rate up, with my luck, they should be better than C0 stars for the amount of primos these sods have stiffed me lol.
Anyway C0-4 4 stars should all be playable at C0, good at C4 and comfortably on par with 5 star C0 at C6. The fact that characters like Candace at C6 is just an actually worth building character is a crime man and a travesty as far as character design goes. It's just 4 star inflation I feel like, because they really want to pad things out, giving characters weird niches and issues that they can sell a fix down the line or just have something as filler. They could really do with saving themselves the time.
Nah the only reason why people arent using different characters is that they are ridiculously hard to build to a usable status I know I would use Candice but I just don't have enough time resources or willpower to grind her to a usable state
youtubers and people in general don't use Yanfei but I do! a lot!
@@EllaNonimato You are lucky, I really want to try her but sadly I don'T have her. I hope she will be in Ganyu banner or something.
There is one main and probably the biggest problem in this approach of making content for a specific character mechanic. That is the whole resource economy discourages experimenting because how scarce the resources are. In the end, you will only build the character with the most coverage which we are already doing. And if another mechanic comes that favors only a handful of characters, the resource economy wont allow it. They then have to re-balance the whole thing which probably they wont do.
Agree. I truly want to build some other 4* I have but I just can't afford it because it will take weeks to just level them up, and even longer to gear them with artifacts. There is too little resin for the amount of domains, bosses, etc. and characters we have.
I think it’s not too bad considering you’re not supposed to have every single unit. Even whales can’t build everyone properly
The good part is that you can clear pretty much everything just by unga bunga
And if you have a decent meta team you can build whoever you want if you play long enough.
When I say build I don’t mean 50CV artifacts triple crowned and sht
I mean lv80 and 8/8/8 (if applicable)
When you start this is probably true, but eventually you just have so much stuff. I'm full casual f2p and its been ages since I've been unable to 90 a character the second I get it.
Not for old players.
Remember we used to get Dust of Azoth through events? Last time we get them was around 1.3 and 1.4. That thing is a live saver but to get them for free now only through that handbook rewards (not even enough lol) and most get it from Paimon's bargain if you save enough star glitter.
I think a key issue is the sheer amount of resources to raise a character. Between Hero Wits, Talent Books, Mora, Trounce drops, Weapon to 90, etc. It makes raising a bench of characters arduous. I joined in September 2022. I have at this point 1 fully built Keqing (who could still improve obviously but 49/179 with a Lion’s Roar. My Noelle and Lisa are closing in on that point of completion. Qiqi and Barbara are solid but could be far better. Xiang and Nahida have spares and are incomplete. Jean has not started. It’s been 4 months about and that’s what I have at AR55 pushing 56. It takes ages to get a full team let alone two for the Spiral Abyss. I am happy I cleared 12-1.
I think too many RUclipsrs forget how this game is before they achieved perfect everything. It is more than a bit insulting to say X is worse Y when X is 4 and Y is a 5. We know. These things take time and other resources though. It’s more insulting to say every mob is 2 shot. Yes, for you it id but for most players, it’s not the case.
i agree 100% with my man , started playing recently and as new player i face these problems as well
There are too much individual characters progress. Weapon and artifacts can be shared, but not the others. You can in-fact farm ascension mats and talent books on day 1 chars you get but can't instantly ascend them...
In MMO I played, even when your character can switch to different class, a lot of their growth systems are shared meaning you don't need to re-do them, just re-build them by using already owned stats, skill points, equipments, etc...
An absolute mood. When people trash on Noelle because of Itto, it grates my nerves. Noelle has been with me forever. I farmed for her talents and ascension and saved up on Starglitter. By the time Itto came around, I already had a fully built Noelle, and I don't really feel like repeating the process over again right now.
You cleared 12-1! Grats!!! I started on 14 July this year, earlier than you yet I could not kill PMA 🥺
@@arzonong7363 with 0 stars but yes. Keqing (with Barbara, Nahida, and filler (think it was Collei) is such a beast which left enough time for Noelle + Lisa + Qiqi + Xiang to kill. On 11-1: 3 stars. 11-2: 2 stars. 11-3: 1 star. 12-1: 0 stars. The jump is nuts tbh. But thank you. You’ll get there in due time for sure!
Doing domains made for a specific character is a thing old story quests did, recent story now quests are just damage input trials. There aren't many examples but these are a few: Venti quest domain where there are elevated platforms and you need to use his skill, Xiao quest where he's in perma ult and you use his jump to move, Klee quest wich there are rocks to break with klee and conviniently elevated lasers tall enough to have klee to pass, Lisa quest where you use her electro attacks to activate things.
I remember there was a domain from the early game I forgot to do which was designed for Amber, and I got around to clearing it over 6 months after I started playing. It was really really tough clearing it with Yanfei and no bow characters, but oh my goodness was it satisfying when I won! I learned afterward that I was supposed to receive Amber as a trial character for that domain but I guess it was bugged 😶
@@silvershoelaces3976 the same thing happened to me but I had to use Xianglings Guoba in that domain
@xlav I used the Yaoyao's Yuegui projectiles and no success, lmao, fuck that domain!
From now on, I will buy 5 stars Xiao if I can't I will save for Shenhe's weapon or Sayu when she is back!
@@silvershoelaces3976 when i did that one i got so scared that i might need amber always cause there were those mini pyro branches (? you couldn't reach/achieve without a pyro bow usser and i thought it could happen in other domains loool
Personally I find the ending comment on the unique bosses aspect to be woefully short sighted.
While we do get opportunities to use unique units, the tradeoff becomes railroading players into using only those units as a solution. Wolflord is a great example. He shows up in abyss and railroads you into using geo in order to efficiently fight him. For someone without any geo characters built, he’s hell to kill because the one counter won’t be available.
This. I really, really dislike that idea. Building characters is hard as it is, between Mora, artifacts, talents, weapons, ascension and so on and so forth. I don't want to build up, say, Amber because she's literally the only source of damage for a unique boss, but woefully useless elsewhere, and thus largely a waste of resources and time.
It's like if any shielded or armoured target could ONLY be damaged by the element it's weak to, rather than simply taking reduced damage compared to its weakness.
Yes, it would let some units see more use, but it is incredibly forced, and in a game that practically punishes you for trying to build more characters than needed, especially if you're newer, more casual, F2P, or all of the above. I'm good, thanks. I'll stick to my gimmick teams.
Yeah also a reminder to the awful time after launch where abyss was often populated by elemental shields like different beefy fatuis we couldnt oneshot yet.
So you practically were forced into bringing at least 2 characters to bring down shields.
This is the reason why I don't play abyss in Honkai Impact, fck that game mode xd
Also wolves in general are fucking bullshit,they have such janky hit boxes that the big guy can lunch you 50 meters in the air should you come into contact with his head,and one thing that has always angered me is that they saw healers weren't popular so they decided to add a problem to sell a solution,these wolves can inflict bleed when you're in burst animation,how can you make something even more bullshitty than this? Like atleast fix this huge issue since in abyss like 10 wolves can inflict bleed at once when you're doing the burst
you got noelle and you know it. from the get go. didn't you farm for her? your fault at this point.
"The last 4 star on field dps we had was yanfei"
Shikanoin Heizou: /cries in the background and wonders how he can be an off field support
anemo catalyst user can be used as VV and TTDS bot, but yeah, I wuold not really classify him as an off field support
You can use him as a grouper and a VV shredder but he is designed to be an on field DPS
@@gloop7458 as a dps oriented anemo... his pull game is really low.
@gloop7458 he's designed as an anemo driver which isn't a dps role, he just enables the reactions on your team via swirl
He has decent scaling but just bc he has a nuke skill doesnt make him a dps
@@kpkazan drivers are a concept the community made. Hoyoverse only designed Dps, support and off field dps fyi. Coz if your argument is that heizou is a driver then that would also make wanderer a driver not a dps. Lisa, Yae Miko, Barbara, Kokomi, Sucrose, Ningguang, Yanfei etc aren't designed to be drivers they simply have elemental normal attack chain as they are catalyst users same goes for Heizou and Wanderer, especially since Heizou is on an field damage focused character, he just happens to be a good driver because he's anemo.
I disagree with the premise that they should hyperspecialize content to certain niches, but agree that they should expand content to encourage usage of more characters. Most of your ideas are predicated on the idea that everyone has YOUR roster, which is not the case. Expanding your roster is a VERY slow process unless you're a whale. Having a single weekly boss that REQUIRES a specific mechanic can completely lock certain players out, especially newer players, which drives customers away. Nobody wants to feel 'oh I didn't pull on this banner last month so I guess I can't do this content at all'.
The idea that I've been thinking about is a rogue-like Abyss-style "Dungeon" with like 20-40 floors, which gives randomized rewards every floor(along with weekly challenge rewards for clearing x numbers of floor per week) and slowly increases difficulty(early floors being quite easy), where you have to choose to bring a set of, say, 20 characters with you. Every floor you're presented with a randomized set of enemies and a randomized ley line effect. You then have to pick your team from the characters you 'brought with you'. The catch? Every time you use a character, that character gets an exhaustion point, but every two floors a character 'rests'(is not used) they lose one. If a character hits 3 exhaustion points, they become unusable until they reach 0(which would be 6 floors)
Newer players would still be able to complete the first 5-10 floors pretty easily, even if they don't have a big, specialized roster, and that'd be enough to get any weekly rewards from the place. But the challenge would be reaching the depths of the place and balancing your character usage. The exhaustion system would force people to be strategic with character usage, even if it's not 'true end game', but since you'd get rewarded for every floor it would be something people could do endlessly and really push themselves to reach the deepest floors. And benchmarking your deepest run in this content would give players some sense of accomplishment as they develop their roster - "Oh man - I finally beat floor 20 for the first time!" type thing.
(This would also give content creators something long-form to do for streaming/etc., which this game lacks)
They won't do that because that's similar to endgame content. Mihoyo already slapped us with the no endgame announcement back then. They already have a planned formula for this game. Sell the character , Farm mats , play with said character (Dailies + abyss + story quest ) after that its all content draught until next update or character to sell.
@@flan_blue8291 they said no endgame similar to abyss not no endgame at all
Feel's like when people make these recommendations its typically them trying to fit a round peg into a square hole.
It's forcing a certain mind set while ignoring everything else. Giving incentive to the players isn't really the dilemma neither is helping CC's monetize there content.
Does this option isolate and force grind? If the answer is yes then its a bad addition. Does it reward grind? If yes its a bad addition?
Making certain characters more viable doesn't make them more desirable for these people. If Amber gets buffed doesn't mean her worth went up or down its that the new trend is Amber's bunny now does X
If you make a randomizer mode (which they did ) doesn't create incentive to play around with team composition or add strategy it just means people will find different exploits and you get the Abyss problem
That's the underlined issue when you cater to try hards you don't enhance the experience you just turn Genshin into typical Gacha or MMO
If you as a player need constant stimulation and refuse to utilize any other tools besides the 8 same units. It's not a game issue its a player issue
Its like the difficulty discussion. Magu and Raiden are well designed and fair enemies but for a system like Genshin because there fair they can be exploited even if under leveled
Abyss Hounds and Thunder Manifestation are to be blunt bullshit but there stall tactics represent unfair difficulty number bases games need
So can you make a good bullshit boss in Genshin ...not really so then where is the line between fun difficulty ad tedium
How does the main experience (exploration) that takes up 85% of the experience and combat (gameplay loop) which is has no incentive (you are not told or forced to grind artifacts its just a resource dump) connect organically along with gathering resources
And with not negligible rewards that CANNOT be farmed
@@flan_blue8291 You can shoot down literally any idea by saying 'that could count as end game'. Literally anything can count as end game. The TCG could count as end game to some players, yet it still happened. New costumes could be end game, they still happen occasionally. etc.
The problem with their 'planned formula' is that they're going to hit the thermocline eventually(that being the point where their customer base just gets sick of complaining about the formula and rapidly bails).
I suppose they could see the game as disposable, if that happens... but it's a major cash cow for them so I would hope they'd be smart enough to recognize that, if they neglect the ability for players to actually PLAY the game regularly and be rewarded for it... the decline won't be slow. It'll be quick and sudden, like it always is in these types of situations.
@@seluhir8820 i think Flan_ Blue worded hoyoverses statement somewhat confusing, so let me try: they don't plan to implement endgame content similar to spiral abyss (so, primarly combat based that goes a bit away from the casual nature of the game). additional game modes like the TCG and other permanent content like skins, mini games, stuff like the teapot,... are very well in their focus and can be expected by the players more in the near future, according to the interview.
My intrinsic reason for using weaker characters is that I like variety. Having amazing power doesn’t really matter in genshin. You can make a few good teams for beating the abyss if you care about that, but once those teams are set you can run weaker teams to clear anything else in the game.
That's what I've done. I first cleared abyss with Eula and Raiden National. After that, built freeze to push out Raiden National.
Now I have multiple variations of freeze, Eula with many options, Raiden National, Cyno Hyperbloom, Hu Tao double Hydro, and dps Sayu for the memes
Same, now that I caught up (started in August) and have a godly C6 Noelle & C2R2 Wanderer, I realised that 2 shotting every non-boss is just straight up boring... and I've never even artifact farmed for anyone except Noelle. Plus, even the weekly bosses go down fast & the Abyss is just 3 floors of giga sponges or annoying enemies that split up.
I've started looking at other characters and creating random teams like: Anemo Traveler/Faruzan/Dori/Tighnari or Chongyun/Albedo/Yun Jin/Xingqiu (two of like 30 that I thought of) and have had way more fun than usual.
literally.. i’m only like lvl 29 bc i’m a dirty casual but i’m still running around with a lvl 50 rosaria just bc i like her and she has decent damage. don’t care if she’s ‘mid’ her character is nice and her attack set is easy to use.
While I'm personally fine with the more niche 4* characters I am not fine with how hard it can be to build then for that niche, sometimes they take more building that the 5*'s they are meant to support
I think the biggest fault with your analysis and suggestions about the game's combat is that they all seem to turn the game into "If you're not a whale you can go suck it". The reason the game's balance works so well in my opinion is that all content is perfectly balanced regardless of what characters you have. New units are almost never about creating more optimal ways to engage in existing content, its moreso about creating fun new ways to experience the game's content. Not everyone has every character, nor do they have the time and resources to build every character. Therefore, the game's content never really requiring a specific unit (outside of some general cases like hypostasis fights and the wolf lord) the game provides a base wherein players are never really punished for playing or building who they want. My DPS Sayu will never reach the heights of Ayaka or Hu Tao, but the game never necessitates that kind of damage anyway. 4 stars (while they certainly have some issues) don't compete with 5 stars because they don't really need to. A lot of the issues you bring up in this video only really apply if you really care about being optimal; and while that is fair, that's also ignoring a huge part of why Genshin is so appealing in the first place.
Exactly. I was always deemed irresponsible for triple crowning Sucrose but I did it and spent the resources because I genuinely liked her game play. She carries swirl teams
As a veteran my only source of content is a character cause most other contents like new region or event will last me about a week while each patch lasts for 40days so a new character is what keeps me entertained but sadly im f2p so i can't get all the characters and whenever i dont have a new character to play with the game is basically dead to me but on top of that if the character i get is niche i dont even know what else to say
Yup. Most of the time, we play what we want. And content that tries to force us into playing something else is probably some of the least popular. Like the current Abyss, with the wolf lord in it.
And, of course, there's the resource scarcity issue. Using a variety of characters means not just leveling, ascending, and raising the talents of said character, and an appropriate weapon, but also artifact farming, with all its overly layered RNG. The game's design pushes you toward focusing on fewer characters, rather than a broad spectrum. Also, lack of saved artifact sets means swapping a character from one role to another is annoying.
Anyway, my main problem with new four stars is that they deliberately sabotage them in some way by giving them a glaring weakness or major hole in their kit, thereby making them less fun to play, in addition to being weaker than a similar role five star.
Im an Amber main and I agree to Var's points aswell as yours
Sayu needs more stinking attention. Imma rewatch his video on "why no one plays sayu"
Here's why people should use sayu. She triggers elemental absorption on her skill. The only other character that can do this is Traveler. Think about that... oh and it lasts 10 secs
Keqing hasn't fallen off in relevance, she has in fact become more relevant than ever since dendro has been introduced. She is crazy strong right now.
Keqing also isn't a 4 star character (though she probably should've been imo)
@@novidas1613 During in 0:50 tho.
@@VrtielA6300this was before sumeru so its understandable that he said that
I think the worst part of is how we hear all the time how "genshin is easy, so use who you like" but both through a combination of Genshin not differentiating characters enough and players trying to optimize everything, a lot of 4 stars who are nearly as good as 5 stars (such as the on field DPS ones) are considered awful
I've used Razor, Yanfei and Noelle, and I've even recently started using Ningguang. They're all strong enough to get through the abyss. They're all really fun to play in their own ways. But because they don't go above and beyond, a lot of people will say "yeah, they're fine. Use them... if you want." which really feels like a nice way of saying "they're trash." Which sucks.
I think it really does come down to that quote from Soren Johnson; “given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game”
Gatcha player mentality pretty much. Ive alwas loved my 4 stars more simply cause i liked their designed more. And tbh the game is so much more relaxing cause im not alwas hyperventilaing for a new 5 star to change my coount.
Absolutely, i will never use Bennett because he is ugly and annoying, i don’t care how broken he is
I love a lot of 4* and use them a lot, Ningguang is so much fun to play for me
Meta is boring, it kills diversity and originality when everyone uses the same team that they didn’t even came up with on their own
@@AkumaItachi I have the opposite opinion of Bennett in that I love him and think he is a precious boy, but still agree with you. I never use him either because seeing him/national in every single guide has made me resent putting him on any team if I can help it
@@spymadmax584 please nobody attack me but to be honest american servers are so much worse and way more toxic. i dont even know why this is. im american and i wish it werent true, ill go on other servers and see a way more welcoming and supportive community.
@@miawmiawmiawmiProbably cultural difference and language barrier. You probably won't get toxic comments from people who don't really speak or want to speak in English and probably cussed behind your back in a different language.
But it's also likely how online game communities work in different regions. I noticed that most Western gaming communities aren't particularly friendly. His doesn't matter which fandom/community or which political side you're on but more of how most people act like I think.
But this is just my take.
The problem with what you are suggesting is that having bosses with very specific ways to defeat them is going to be a constraint for the players who don't have the means to defeat them, nor the will to invest in characters they don't like. (See wolflord requiring geo or the drake requiring archers: they work fine in the overworld, but they get old pretty quickly in the abyss, for people who like to experiment different parties like me, repeating the challenges time after time).
One of the greatest appeals Genshin has is that its contents are very accessible (some might say too much, me included) but that's one of the reasons for its huge success.
Although what you were suggesting with Jean, Xiao and Heizou might be a good idea for some kind of endgame content other than the abyss. But probably there should be an option to get free trial characters for it, because it would be kind of a waste of resources to build someone like Jean in a very specific way, just for a single scenario.
Heizou is the dps 4 star we wont see in a while,you can hit 100k with him at c0...I think of all the recent 4stara he is by far the best.And also best 4star dps in the game,yes his aa's dont deal as much but his kit is more around his abilities than normal atk
he just succros without cc. in what situation he hit 100k? After u jump with bongowongo food buffs and every attak buff possible, which will be unusable in abyss? And term dps is bad to use, he is on field driver or if for some reason u want hyper cary.
I think the best 4* in the game is Benny. He basically has everything.
Best universal dmg buff, heals, access to Pyro resonance, good noblelesse user, decent on field dmg, good battery, access to pyro infusion at c6.
There’s no 4* that does more than him for a team. Xingqiu and sucrose are close behind.
I don't think you understand how weak Heizou as a damage dealer is. He is not even close to being the best main dps for 4 stars, because Xiangling, Fischl, and even Noelle or Yanfei exist, who are all damage dealers who tend to deal the most damage. You can even use dps Bennett and he'll be competitive
Yeah, he deals 100k with a skill every 10 seconds, but he has no damage outside of that. His burst is the weakest in the entire game. No, I'm not kidding. He has the weakest 40 cost burst in the game (somehow worse than Xinyan and amber), despite him being of a much worse damage type than them (since pure Anemo is arguably one of the worst unless C6 Faruzan but good luck getting her)
The best point of comparison is Eula. Eula can deal 300k+ (without jumping any hoops like Heizou) per rotation and yet she is still considered bellow average. Even if she needs double the time, it's 150k every 10 seconds, yet it is not that good. Heizou deals less than that, which means he is below below average.
As a damage dealer, he just sucks. As a driver, he's just a worse Sucrose. There is basically no redeeming qualities except "big Anemo nuke" but that is extremely inefficient.
@@leojustice3367 Not everyone cares about meta. He’s by far the most fun 4 star in a while. His burst can swirl and can also do 30-40k. I’m also that one guy who uses Faruzan at c0 and she’s also fun to play. The top 5% hardcore endgame players seems to forget that most of the community just wants to have fun. Shatter Albedo, Sayu-Dori team, etc they’re all fun and Heizou is no different.
But seriously who judges dps by itself? There’s an reason why Genshin is a team guy. On the end of the day team damage matters the most and most of the time if you’re running him in abyss it’ll be no issues yet doom posters like you underestimate his playstyle. Heizou/Bennett, Xiangling, Faruzan is quite a fun comp to play let alone the 100k’s from time to time.
Yes the team may not be as good as c6 Noelle, National, or taser but it doesn’t matter if real endgame isn’t in the game. I thought that I’d dislike playing Wanderer from the videos I saw but in game my opinion went 180 degrees because of how surprising fun he was to play to the point where I used my guaranteed on him when I could’ve pull for Hu Tao or Raiden. My point being just have fun and let others enjoy characters instead of calling him trash or an sidegrade.
@@azalea9409 the person made a claim about him being "the best 4 star dps". That's a meta claim. Thus saying "not everyone cares about meta" is irrelevant to the conversation. I was strictly talking from a team building / meta standpoint. And if it doesn't apply to you, that's fine. But that doesn't mean everything I said is incorrect. People can have fun with actually playing units that do good damage too, y'know?
Hoyoverse failed Ningguang so badly. In the story quests, she did so much (more than most 5 stars). She truly should have been a 5star character.
The only reason i think she was made a 4star is that she would be too strong as a 5star.
I'd argue a well-built Ningguang is actually superior to a lot of 5-stars, her short burst CD is insanely good
One main issue of her since launch is her projectile targeting not that great. I use her on spiral abyss recently just to destroy golden wolflord shield faster and use hyperbloom to beat him because the projectile targeting is better and faster.
@god tuna you have every right to disagree, but there is no need for the harsh words.
@@godtuna6678I kind of disagree especially since most of the representatives for each region (i.e Diluc for Mondstadt and Ayaka for Inazuma). I think they kind of did her dirty unless more representatives are released as four star units.
@@Kaiji... she is still one of the more annoying characters to play with her terrible auto targeting and her rng attack animations making her artificially clunky. She has like 3 different atk animations, 2 short ones and one where she does a little twirl which is a lot longer. So doing 1 normal into charge atk can require different input timing purely on rng.
They also scuffed her particle generation by giving her E a 6 second cd on making particles otherwise she would be an amazing battery.
7:45 Heizou came out in 2.8 this past summer. He is nothing but an on field 4 star.
Edit: Also, please explain your Chongyun to Shenhe comparison. Their kits are heavily different. Chongyun is a general support with the ability to convert physical to cryo, reduce skill cooldown, and speed up attack animations, and has a high scaling fast 3-4 hit burst. Shenhe is a narrow support that increases cryo damage and either normal + charge attack damage or skill + burst damage, and has a slow hitting, low scaling burst with a primary focus on improving cryo damage. About the only overlap they have beyond being cryo is they can reduce cryo res.
Agree
On-field 4 star dps* - if I may add.
Not just an on-field driver.
Edit: tho I do agree with his point that he makes there
@@astyutechick7980 heizou can be used as an onfield dps
@@yaemikoshandler Heizou s a Onfield dps, although i may say I use him with thrilling tales in husbando comps
They Fill Similar Roles. No one Uses Chongyun as ge is an Overall DPS loss compared to Shenhe with what she can offer
Yanfei is my main dps and she’s really awesome! She gets buffed by my 5 stars and I know she’ll never get the highest numbers but she gets the job done really well!
I'm also a Yanfei main. I have Ganyu, Hu Tao, Diluc, Kazuha, and many other 5-star characters, but Yanfei just fits better with my playstyle. The only real problem is that my Yanfei is at constellation 0, and I struggle with stamina a lot, especially in co-op.
One problem about encouraging versatility: unlike other gacha games your strongest character might be the product of months of grinding. I only have 3 decent artifact sets (with good crit ratios) and I’ve spent like 100 original resin and about a year doing so. Unless artifacts (and perhaps characters) become easier to use, encouraging versatility causes an unhealthy amount of grinding for player who haven’t reached endgame. Having said that I’ve realised the best way to encourage versatility would be to do something like turn the resettable part of spyral abyss into this versatility challenge, and offer extra primos cos everyone wants them and it would further encourage hard work, while stopping abyss from just being a whale detector
Indeed, until the artifact system doesn't get a 180 we ain't getting better and more varied end game content
I've been saying for years that the artifact system is cancer and is holding this game back.
@@M4Maus May I know how much the average amount of time you guys need normally to farm on full optimal build or full artifact set as an F2P? Just want to compare mine
@@nightday2030 For all players whether you’re a whale, low spender or f2p, building an optimal set for a character takes months or couple of weeks depending on the amount of fragile resin you have. Remember artifacts are based on Rng so you may never get 1 good artifact for months. The advantage of whales is that they can refresh their resin with primos or buying packs. Personally I haven’t farmed too much because it’s absolutely degrading.
@@nightday2030 Due to all the RNG it can be weeks or months before I get a set I'm content with.
I think the last 4 Star DPS was Heizou who was well received but also a hint of, "That's great and adorable. Come on Kazuha let's go clear Spiral Abyss.".
But his power budget was pretty respectable.
That's why I can't help but feel a bit salty about their decision to make Wanderer an anemo catalyst as well. Before him, Heizou was a unique unit, but now they diminished him to "a less cool Scara", and those who played Heizou a lot probably benched him for the sake of a cooler version. We literally don't have any other male catalysts and they HAD to give Scara a redundant element..
@@jeremiahsmith916 I don't mind another male catalyst user but making him anemo was weird to me but most of what they did with Scara I'm not a fan of. However I still think Heizou's gameplay is funner than Wanderer's but I'm really into fighting games so Heizou's style just meshes with me a lot better. Wanderer doesn't seem to fly that long at C0 and his maneuverability is lacking for me in combat. He's okay but I do see what you mean regarding him benching Heizou on a lot of teams.
@@jeremiahsmith916 Strong disagree there. Heizou is still unique in his ways of being a melee catalyst character, also their playstyles are completely different.
And in all honesty I would not mind more melee catalyst characters.
@@Bananenbauer123 oh I’m not saying they’re similar. Just the mere fact of anemo male catalyst. Before Scara, Heizou had a bazillion uniqueness points, but now he’s just a melee skin of the archetype. But idk, maybe I’m weird for being sensitive to that. I did ragequit Genshin for like a week when they released Yaoyao and took away my man Baizhu’s gimmick of a Dendro healer. I know it’s super dramatic but I really have strong feelings about those things ahah
4:04 4 stars themselves are technically easy to get however, it’s the problem of getting the ones players desire/ the “good “ones. There is no pity to getting a guaranteed Surcrose or Fischl constellation . You are more likely to get a Sayu, Xinyan, Dori, or a 4 star weapon you didn’t want . The increase in “niche” or unwanted 4 stars makes it harder to get the one you desire . That’s why it’s frustrating when Xinyan is on a banner ,instead of Surcrose , because you don’t really want constellations on Xinyan and rather have it for Xinqiu , Bennet etc.
Exactly what I said, on average you’ll get more 4 stars but are you gonna get the one YOU want
I think what's needed is not new bosses with mechanics, that forces you to use specific units (present abyss is a good example, since it forces you to bring geo in second part, cause of wolflord, even if you have no need for it for your team and that's make your DPS drop if you have not built geo unit, that fits)
What's needed for now is simply tweaks for bad characters to repair the crippling issues.
Honkai impact has a similar system to what you described in memorial area and abyss/ superstring dimension where bosses and stages will have buffs like "enemies take 40 when frozen" or with bosses that need bleed damage and u have to make 3 separate teams, but what ends up happening is that when you look at the leaderboard of the top 100 it is all the exact same team with the exact same gear and tbh to be competitive you have to have that. Sometimes it's 2 teams, one being the team it was designed for and the other being the best damage in the game but ultimately it's not as free as it sounds from what I've observed. But that's just from a competitive standpoint.
My dream is that someday Mihoyo will release a story event where Noelle finally becomes a knight and she gets buffs, a rarity upgrade into a 5 star and a new skin
shes really good in mono geo with gorou but itto is batter than her but mono geo noelle can do 30ks consistently
@@addayang7456 get Noelle to C6 and she's equal to Itto
@yukiukanami235 she isnt equal to itto at c6 lol
She can compete with Itto at c6 but Itto still does more damage than her, she just has better AoE
The way she competes with Itto at c6 is using his dedicated support, using his artifact set and using his signature lol
@@kpkazan thats true, so i kinda want a c6 noelle . ( i got 2 red horns from the scara signature banner)
@@kpkazan proof?
They've been doing really bad at making constellations feel like desirable extras instead of literal parts of the kit locked, there is no good reason whatsoever faruzan should have energy issues at base looking at what she provides, at the very least her A2 or A4 passive should decently alleviate that energy issue but nope you get none of that unless you go for more copies
I think Heizou was the last 4-star dps released. He's good tho.
Really like your videos ❤ one thing I’d suggest so people would stop bothering you, is just when making a statement on the script just double check first before recording. Like checking that Heizou was the latest on field 4* or that Dehya who you stated as a 4* on a previous video even though she has been confirmed as 5* by leakers and even has a signature weapon in official promos. That would just make people discredit your points, even though your point still stands. Hoping you keep up ☺️
The issue is that the original 4 stars were way better than what they should be due to lack of them knowing how balance would be so of course they're going to be bad in comparison. Honestly though, we're all so familiar with this concept that when I see a "whoa this new 4 star is not xiangling or bennet!!!" video, I just don't care.
Thats why they needed to nerf them from the start....now its too late
"Spiral abyss 4* only challenge" 😀
*Uses National team* 😐
That is the reason i use the new 4*
Because they are not any of those
Tired of seeing Bennett, XL and XQ everywhere as well, it’s so boring when everytime a new character releases, it is either "not a Bennett, XL, XQ" or "in their team, use Bennett, XL, XQ"
No thanks
@@AkumaItachi Yeah exactly how I feel. It's actually fun that the other 4star characters have a bit of a niche you can build around. I don't get how on one hand they complain that the game is too easy and then on the other they refuse to use anything but the most broken team. I also hate that their opinion of a good 5 star revolves around how well the character fits into the bennett/xianling/ xingqui set up. Can't have a character that stays on field for too long now or it'll mess up their rotation!
Sometimes I wonder what they _did_ think the future of the game will be. They made very capable 4 stars - planning for _what_ , exactly? Did they have a plan for a much more difficult system originally? Interesting stuff to think of
The way I see it, the older 4* units (Xiangling, Bennett, Xingqiu, Sucrose and Fischl) and 5* characters have two things in common: they feel like a complete character at C0, and their cons act like a bonus to their overall performance. In comparison, newer 4* characters feel like half of what they could be without ALL or at least most of their constellations, on top of being supports for specific situations or teams.
Like, if I have to choose between building Bennett C0 or Faruzan C0, I’m picking Bennett, simply because at C0 he can do what Faruzan can only effectively do at C6, without being limited to one element.
Bennet at C0 is nearly unusable, you are locked to his health percentage, you can’t get both heal and atk boost at the same time, Bennett only becomes good when you have him at C1. Most older 4* do require some kind of Constellation: Xingqiu at least C1 for more water sword, Sucrose need C1 or better C6 , Fishcl needs C6 to become strongest and Xiangling needs C4 for her ult to last longer.
The Reason: The 5 Star Characters have Better artwork than 4 Stars
Well Candace artwork looks absolutely bomb but slap as hard as a wet noodle.
I like Sara design a bit more than some 5 stars. can't say the same about the gameplay
candace looks like a 6 star 😭
I think you kinda forgot that not everyone can afford getting every 5* they want and raise every character they want
Honestly Ningguang is so good to me, she’s a neutral element yes but her dmg ceiling is so high when built right. She is currently my only triple crowned character and has carried my account for a long time, Beidou is arguably one of the best sub dps electro units in the game she will never not be good.
Rosaria will always be good no matter what because her kit is built to last forever because of the buffs she gives, almost every character in the game can utilize her buffs.
These are some of my thought about them, they are my fav 4 stars in the game.
Well, idk about there not being rotations or strategy in genshin. In abyss team rotations are pretty important. Also, I dont understand how chongyun and shenhe are comparable in gameplay but I might be trippin lol.
But everything else I agree with. I feel like mihoyo saw how strong XL, Fischl, Sucrose etc and they decided not to make 4 stars of that capacity, why? Well I think it's because they are trying to avoid powercreep (excluding diluc). If everyone was as strong as those OG 4 stars then there wouldn't be a need for a majority of other 4 stars. So they try to fit 4 stars to niche's so that there isn't much powercreep.
They also do this annoying thing where they release people before their time. Like shinobu for example, before dendro she was just ok, but after the release of dendro she became very good in hyperbloom teams (same with thoma for burgeon).
I also think they kind of rely on character likability/story. So they may make a 4 star essentially meaningless or useless but expect them to be used because the community loves them. (Candace comes to mind because she has no use that I can think of)
So yes I agree 4 stars have a majoirty of issues, and I think a good way to balance it is that with c4/c6 they can contest with 5 stars in their relevant roles (but be maybe a little worse), but they aren't as diverse, or something like that. Idk, what does everyone else think?
Seeing your 4th paragraph it's kinda obvious which playerbase they're targeting now
Most of my favourite characters actually are 4 stars which makes it disappointing when their kit is lacklustre. I actually have made one of those challenge accs where I only use 4 star characters which I find fun since it's a bit difficult.
Xingqiu, Bennett, Fischl, Xiangling if compared with newer characters feel like 5*
I feel like yenfei could easily outdamage a lot of 5 stars. Also, DPS 4stars are needed in early game
You get xiangling and can craft a crescent pike for her. Thats the best dps until you get 5* domains at which point you can give her a pyro sub dps build without having wasted exp books on someone like razor.
Same with Ningguang and Heizou. There are many guides how to play them and get really great results,
Having more metrics to evaluate and reward players in SA is one way to encourage a variety of characters. For example, instead of only having the rewards be given on the basis of time completed, you do it on the basis of how many characters survive with a challenge based on fighting enemies that hit dummy hard, thus requiring shields and healers. Other challenges could be something like prohibiting the use of 5* characters out right with each 5* your run reducing the rewards you can earn. These don't have to be permanent metrics like how the devs handle SA currently, but metrics that get cycled to keep the content fresh.
I do understand what you say of making a boss or something that wants you to use an specific unit, but I think instead of been can only should be is easier, because since the game is gacha not every one has all the characters even the most common (for example i dont have bennett but I do have 2 five stars), because making a boss that is only ever posible with one character would lock the ones that doing have it to the mercy of randomness and unable to progress
The one key point I agree with is the amount of resources it takes to level and grow 4 and 5 star characters. It's the same amount of mora, exp, and talent books as 5 stars. It more or less punishes you for trying to build multiple characters at once, especially towards the mid game when you start to realize how many resources a single character needs to be better.
Besides that, whether or not you want to build a character also depends on preference. There's a number of people who play this game purely for the strongest characters and vids like this, your "why no one plays" series, and tier lists are a lot more valuable to them. But for the rest of us, we don't really care too much about that. It's why despite having Ayaka and wanting Hu tao and Deyha, I'm still gonna keep using Yanfei for as long as I keep playing. Of course pointing out any downsides these characters have is the sensible thing to do. But once a player accepts this, there's very little that can dissuade them from bringing out the best in a few favorites. I think more challenges that force players to use different characters should be added too, so long as it's permanent in some way. That way, if you're new or just unlucky with the gacha you don't feel as if you're missing out on rewards. After all, the rate to acquire new characters in GI is very low compared to ither gachas
I feel like my problem with four stars doesn't particularly lie with the four stars themselves; I think that any character, with proper investment, can be good. My problem is that it takes too long to build them to the point that they're useable. I tried building diona once because I think she's funky, but I ended up farming a different domain over and over because I was still trying to build my main dps and supports. For me, the characters themselves aren't the problem, it's the artifact system.
As a Yanfei main, the constellation argument is totally valid. I just got her C6 and she's now my biggest dmg dealer, but that's mostly because she's my most invested. My Kazuha could probably very easily hit much higher numbers if I put enough investment in him.
I really disagree with the points at the end. Building a character takes way too long, the game shouldn't force you into bringing along a weak character just to fulfil a specific check. People use different comps because they're diverse and fun to play. This also singles out newer players who have less characters even further.
No body say u have to use sara to open gates to abby's start of the game be same lets be honest how many new characters try abbys and get bitch slapped because they want to beat it with level 20 characters if hoyo added some domains that required u to be ar 45 lets say u will have good amout of character 4 starts by then
Yeah it wouldn't make anyone play Ningguang it'd make them play her once every three months when that specific challenge rotates around and forces them to.
My gripe with Genshin right now is that they strictly want this game to be for casuals only but are unnecessarily over balancing to the point of making units bad upon release. I honestly don’t see the point in this since there’s zero PvP.
Because this game is a very character focused game, you should be able to use any unit as your main DPS if you so choose. I agree with your take on the whole 4/5star rarity take where 4 stars should be capable of being as strong as 5 stars by taking more resource and time.
Isn't it better for a character be niche now since most people play for abyss? Like I remember ppl complaining how Yoimiya needs Bennett but the other team for the abyss would need Bennett also so it's an issue. However, with the addition of yunjin, this issue is fixed and Bennett can be used in the other team. Honestly, I find the niche to be quite good since now characters don't need to share Bennet, xingqiu, etc. I understand that it may make these 4 stars weak but they still do their jobs anyways. I don see the reason why everything is being complained about like wut
I think the real problem is how they're either:
1. Has high energy cost (80) and bad energy generation
2. Replaceable by other 4*s that aren't the National Trio, or Sucrose & Fischl. Examples are Candace vs Yun Jin, and Dori vs Shinobu
3. Highly dependent on constellations. Sara & Faruzan are the best examples.
Some Sumeru 4* fits in more than 1 category here.
@@xxx_lolidestroyer69_xxxuwu58 understood, I agree with the first statement cus from wut I can tell, most of these characters can't generate their own energy likes srsly but ig that's why most of such niche characters are niche for their own elements ukuk. Unlike yunjin ofc whose main focus is her burst but is recommended to play wif other elements.
For the second one, I think people shud just stop comparing these characters, of course sucrose and fischl are vv good, but I feel like there is no point in comparing the characters like just use who u wan.
And the third one ig they focus mainly on constellations because hoyoverse expects ppl to pull on the banner multiple times, granting you a chance in getting the character and their constellations as well as getting the five star. From what can be told, itto is always paired with gorou, so by pulling for itto, you are granted gorou and his constellations. However, it does the depend on luck cus you might not even get the character but we can't put the blame on hoyoverse for that.
All in all I do agree that these characters are niche and ppl can find them weak. But usually these niche characters are 4 stars. The only niche 5 star I can see is shenhe and nilou, cus 1 is a cryo support and the other has a strict team composition. But mmm
I disagree. Niche chars would only mean you'll have to invest more just so the char could fit 1 or 2 teams. What a waste of mora, mats, domains, etc. For example: having 2 bennet is way more efficient than having to invest on Bennett, Sara, Gorou, Yunjin, Faruzan, Etc. Just so they can fill that niche.
I don't think having niche characters is an issue but it's a problem if they're bad at their niche or need cons to be usable which seems to be what's happening with some of the sumeru 4*
@@no-do4pv I'd put forth the opposite side of that. Having a character that excels in a niche is good, but it is bad if the character sucks at everything else. A character shouldn't be a dead pull, like Gorou is for most new players.
I suggest, for example, that the only decently designed "niche" support is Yun Jin. She has her teams, like with Yanfei, but a new player can use her in any old team, and she'll contribute. That's a well designed character. Has use early, can be used for fun, and still have value late game in a more niche role. Compare that to Gorou or Sara.
07:07 Highly disagree on this Sucrose take. There's a reason Sucrose is the premiere driver for taser team over unit like Yoimiya, Heizou, Jean or Kazuha. Taser cares alot about who is on field. First, the team wants a normal attacker since Xingqiu's and Beidou's abilities only triggered by doing normal attacks. Second Fischl's A4 which made up a large portion of her damage contribution only proc when the on-field character trigger an electro reaction, and Sucrose triggers alot of Swirl and Electro-charge. Third, 2 of the unit from taser is single target oriented, her being an anemo grouper helps the team consolidates the lack of AoE damage since she triggers bunch of reactions in large area. People forget when you have 2 coexisting aura which is hydro and electro. Every hit your anemo unit dealt, deals additional 2 instance of electro, 1 instance of hydro, and 1 instance of electro-charge.
Also Shenhe and Chongyun comparison is probably the worst comparison I've heard in Genshin. The two are nothing alike no matter how you stretch it. Chongyun offers cryo infusion from his E, CD reduction from C2 and abit of "nuke" from his burst. While Shenhe offers Flat Damage bonus from her E and a Res shreds + Cryo Damage Bonus from her burst. Their kits have no similarities whatsoever.
Edit: Even in their role as a "Cryo support", Chongyun does nothing for Ganyu since she's a bow character, and Ayaka already have innate cryo infusion from her passive. People would rather have Rosaria as their cryo support and even her would rather have Kaeya as her teammates to help keep up the cryo uptime on a freeze team. The only place Chongyun is relevant as a cryo support is on Melt Bennett team, or some Cryo Zhongli/Keqing meme team.
nah i don’t think just forcing ppl to use a specific character to beat a boss would increase their usage or make them better in any way, it’d create backlash & not everyone builds every character they get, resources r scarce & most ppl only have 10+ important characters built & usually it’s their main team, a character they like & characters for abyss or specific situations, hell even if they have more than 14 characters built most share builds which wouldn’t work at all.. you can’t force someone to use a character, thats basically what they did w kokomi & got HORRIBLY shit on, (most ppl didn’t even pull her during that abyss they just whipped out their cope built qiqis & prayed for the best), a dungeon where u’d be forced to use something niche like a charged atk based catalyst is dumb & annoying when the game is casual & ment to be passable with most characters, “oh no i don’t have a build for yanfei or ningguang guess i can’t do this content”
i also don’t get the problem, alot of the 4* r strong just not as op as the old ones cause they were made early game & there was not many5* & they had to add good 4*
7:42 there is Heizou, and he is pretty good as a driver imo
I watched a lot of your videos and i want to thank you!
Thanks you to i gained the skill to get raiden shogun on first 10 pulls on one account, and on another one i got mona+ raiden shogun on the first 30. All thanks to your guides 🖤
Now that there are so many characters it is getting harder and harder to get a 4 star character to c6. Made worse by the fact some of them Need constellations to feel good to play
They also refuse to update the star glitter shop as well to add a 3rd 4 star character to the mix, so nearly every new 4 star past 2.0 is hassle to get.
I would love a Geo normal/charged attack infuser with def boost and healing. I would c6 them and would only use them to make my Albedo a main dps. Niche 4 stars are the best because the smaller the niche, the more irreplaceable they are in certain team comps.
Truth Main DPS Albedo is a DREAM T^T
As an on-field Zhong main, I pray for a geo infusion character every day and will pull for them even if they heal enemies and look like an NPC
As much as i understand the points in the video, the problem with designing bosses for specific characters boils down to the fact that not everyone has every 4 star. (i sure don’t) If you designed a boss that, say, needed a single, hard hitting geo attack, people without nigguang or zhongli would not be able to fight the boss.
They have Noelle. It would not be fun, but they could.
@@Leopoldshark and for Noelle to be able to hit more than 1-2k of dmg, she needs way more resourses than I ever care to spend on her. Personally I would hate to be forced to use characters I don't care about, and I'm sure many people would agree. Have you seen all the "I hate wolflord because I don't like geo characters" outcry lol
Especially since the optimal option would be to skip that content instead of ruining your account by pulling a unit you dont want or investing months of resources into one that you wont use elsewhere.
All for 50 primos....
Hi vars! I know this is a bit off topic but I just want to wish you and your family a very happy new year and happy holidays as well! I really love your content! Here's to another year of amazing content 🍷🍷
The last on field 4 star was heizou, how dare u forget him :(
Thoma became one of my best 4 stars since I have Nahida. He brings: burgeon (27k aoe reaction damage) and sturdy long lasting shield. My Thoma team is very comfy and clear abyss easily 👌 I gave him the ER and HP pieces of my farm from deepwood farm. Super happy I leveled him ! Just waiting a 2nd Nahida now to play dendro comfortably on the two abyss halves
can I ask how much Elemental Mastery and Max HP your Thoma has? I'd like to use him for Burgeon sometimes, but I don't want to sacrifice his shield, and pretty much everyone says you need to put EM pieces on him to achieve satisfactory Burgeon DMG. But without HP pieces his shield will be weak and without ER sands his burst won't be consistent, so I'm not sure how to approach this :)
Bruh if only the game would give me him
@@RomantycznyWieslaw well mine is in a middle ground EM/EM/HP r5 fav lance 20% crit r, 4 gilded, 24k hp level 85, 180 er, 550 EM, c2
But I would level up talents and go EM/EM/EM, the shield is already strong enough
If you do Nahida, XQ, Thoma you have enough survivability
@@wolfwoof2000 wow, thank you for such a detailed reply! I guess I'll experiment with his artifacts then :)
They can't force players into using more units because they know there is no resin to do that for your first year of playing. Their own resin system keeps biting them into the back every time but they still refuse to let it go.
Only worst of downside is there's only one is forcing everyone to play only one character and trashing every characters just for the one's satisfaction.
Just a correction, the last On Field Main DPS was Heizou, not Yanfei
I think there should be a way to ascend 4 star characters into 5 stars.
i get your point, BUT if we make those very specific bosses that require a specific character's niche (even more specific than the hypostases and wolflord etc), they won't be as enjoyable or even "fair" to the players who don't have or even built those characters simply because they don't like them.
it's a gacha game, which takes months to build even just a single character. if they don't add inclusivity and simplicity to the hard bosses, the number of people playing this game would go down.
Comparisons to other gachas are cool and but, and I am sure some will disagree with this and maybe even take offense to it, other gachas tend to have better gacha rates. Thus 5*/SSR aren't as rare. In genshin as a f2p you have to religiously save for the 5* you want to get them. It only makes sense they would be usually stronger than 4*.
Other gachas have better rates on paper, but they're filled with dead units. Genshin doesn't have that. I still remember when I used to bring Xinyan or Amber to Spiral Abyss for their AOE, their taunt, or hitting weak points.
They're still usable, but eventually with the addition of new units it's just easier to use a Hu Tao, a Thoma (for burgeon), or a Yoimiya. If there was some form of expanded (but OPTIONAL) abyss that requires more units, units like Chongyun or Razor can make a comeback. But since we only ever need 8 units at a time, the first units to be phased out will be old 4-star units.
It was inevitable.
In other gachas, the lower rarity ones get shelved as well. Heck, given that they usually have far more characters, there are far more shelved characters.
@@jyashin Razor has a good dendro team, zajef made a video on it.
Good video. I rarely find myself without several nitpicks when you make a video like this, but I think your analysis here is significant and dead on.
ashikai stream and new vars vid... what a great christmas
Personally, I love the 4 stars that I have primarily because of their ability to support co-op play.
I have heavily invested into some of my 4 stars and take great enjoyment taking them into the weekly coop boss fights. Many people in coop already have very well built 5 star DPS units so I like to support these builds and players by choosing suitable 4 stars to support their efforts. It makes these fights much more efficient and enjoyable (plus survivable).
These are my personal favorites to take into coop (where feasible/suitable):
Noelle (C6): healing, dps (plus many times she's the one that finishes the fight cuz all the 5 stars died... crazy good if another player picks another GEO unit)
Layla (C6): shielding, reaction support (she's saved many coop fights - better than Zhongli in my books for coop specially since she shields everyone)
Fazruzan (C6): insane support for players with built Xiao, Wanderer units
Kujou Sara (C6): makes other player's Raiden go nuts... plus she's much easier to play in coop mode
Kuki Shinobu (C6): healing, reaction support (she's tricky though as she needs to run up to other players to heal them plus can be a challenge to keep alive)
Note: I also have a C6 Bennet but, I rarely take him as I don't want his C6 messing up other peoples' non-pyro damage output.
I think with the c6 Benny, the only issues I can see is with physical, infusers who can be overridden and specific reaction teams. Most rely on skill/burst to do damage. Benny c6 would overall increase total damage output because of his infusion and pyro buff. Most players would just auto attack just to do some damage while waiting for their skill/burst. With c6 benny, that would buff their auto attacks with pyro+buffs.
7:42 I believe the last 4-star DPS was Heizou.
On the contrary, I like that Genshin doesn't force you to use characters you don't want to. My #1 cause of gacha burnout is having to build characters for niche content or run the treadmill of pulling the latest unit to complete new content. In Genshin I can take my time and pull who I want and know they'll be fine to use, and has added to it being my longest commitment to a gacha.
I feel like the investment is part of the issue tbh, especially for new players/ casuals. Like i pulled Faruzan but she cant do nothing because not only is she at C0, i haven’t unlocked Sumeru yet.
I know i say it all the time, but Genshin fr needs to take a page from Honkai’s book and have something like the foundry where u can forge weapons specifically designed for more niche characters to keep them on par with at the least a C0 5*. If even bum ass Sixth Serenade and the Olyneyva twins can get Pri-Arms, Genshin can make a claymore that helps Sayu’s weird niche as an Anemo healer, or buffs her EM/HB the longer she spin dashes. Gorou could get a bow that makes his abilities count for every teammate whose element matches a crystallize crystal he picks up etc. Where characters get powercrept and fall off, weapons should pick up the slack cuz artifacts will never be equatable to Stigmata without a whole new echelon of powercreep
My only issue with 4 stars is (like i mentioned in the exclusive support video) is the unnecessary weaknesses that just exist to cripple them and make them not viable
The only way to fix them is usually just constellations, but good luck getting them.
Faruzan is the easiest example. 300%+ ER and it might just not be enough with Wanderer because they both generate absolutely no energy. You want a solution? Just get her to C6.
Collei's burst got screwed over because for some reason they thought it'd be funny to make her be the first special ICD that is actually problematic.
Dori...80 cost burst. Pathetic utility, and bad electro application outside of her constellations (who would've seen that coming)
Kandake: not a character before C6 because she has virtually no role, no application, no nothing. She can even be worse than Yunjin because even if Yunjin has a limit she still buffs with her C2. At C6, she can apply hydro fairly well (kinda copium).
Heizou: worst 40 cost burst in the game. Pathetically weak AAs. Same charge attack issues as Keqing's. And a worse Sucrose if you play him as a driver. People constantly praise him but he really has literally nothing going for him except "oh look a catalyst that plays exactly like a sword" and "Anemo nuke that doesn't even deal that much damage"
Repeat for all 4 stars, even those who are actually good like Kuki. Kuki's healing sucks, like it is extremely weak and the only reason you'd use her is because she has the second best Electro AOE application (behind *Raiden* of all characters). Her burst sucks in hyperbloom, and her skill sucks in Aggravate. Half of her kit is worthless in the two archeotypes you'd play her in. Most of her issues still exist, just that people kinda forgot with Dendro being the thing that patched one of them.
You say that 4*s are easier to get but it took me HUNDREDS of wishes and 3 separate banners to c6 Thoma. I think I got 3 or 4 5* characters before I got him there. Meanwhile I got like 15 Sayus, so... easier to get, usually, unless you get unlucky.
I'm trying to c6 kaeya and that's even worse than trying to c6 4 stars that go on limited banners. So in a way year 4 stars are even harder to build than 5 stars
For the starter ones it is tbh. Even if it's slow you can buy them from the shop. So if you know what you are doing there is a guranteed way to get some 4*. It's slow but possible. And we get free 4* (Lantern rite etc). and in the early days 4* were much more Common because of the lower and slow growing 4* roster. And the chance losing to a specific 4* was higher too (again because of the lower roster). But now this changed a lot. The 4* roster is much bigger and certain chars only get on a banner with specific chars (Gorou with Def scaling, Sara with Raiden, Yunjin with normal attacker..)
Merry Christmas! So I agree with you except/and...
1. There is a boss like that for Ninguang, the twin Vishap boss in Enkanomia that just pelts with alternating Cryo/electro, and I do bring her and Noelle there for that reason.
2. It is SO IMPOSSIBLE for casual players to get a decent artifact set for even 1 character, let alone the 8 it takes to get through the abyss, gearing up an entire roster is nearly out of the question. We'd need something like...'fixed' stats or sub stats for sets before that'd be even remotely viable (ie. crimson witch set won't get hydro damage, first two substats are always attack%/something relevant dependent on set for flowers and feathers, etc.) so that it doesn't take 2 years to come up with a good set for someone other than Noelle, Barbara, Zhong Li and Kokomi. (I see a lot of streamers in particular who run way more domains than I do complaining about HP/DEF drop rates and my own pieces seem to back this up). I mean, keep the two generic sets that drop from every boss generic, sure, but if I can only run domains once a week I should at least feel like I've got a chance at getting SOMETHING after 5 runs other than level and box fodder. I've been playing daily since Klee's first banner and still can't clear the abyss.
3. I've seen it brought up already by others, but 4 *'s lack guarantees, so even though they show up on more banners and "A" 4* is guaranteed after 10 pulls, the odds of "that" 4* never gets
13:54 this is why im starting to like the Kamera Events actually. Yeah its the same repeated old event but the requirements/challenges it gives you to complete each picture is fun. I end up bringing out characters I would rarely use and that just feels so refreshing.
Absolutely nail it on the part where enemy diversity is so low that there's no reason to using different other characters. I might even say that if there were ever a combat focused combat gameplay, the value of certain characters will go way up than what we have today. Characters like Kokomi or even Qiqi would be much more valued under the right circumstances.
Yea, teams like International is good in ALL situations which can discourage you to build other characters.
There are enemies where ranged characters gets a spotlight which is nice (Thunder Manifestation, Aeonblight Drake), but when its in the abyss it unfortunately got lots of backlash.
... And no I'm not including Ruin Serpent there. Even though I use YoiYelan combo i still hate it.
And to add, even if there is some sort of mechanic that you'd need to overcome, most standard mobs can be burnt down before it even becomes an issue.
An example: Primal Constructs out in Sumeru's desert. They can cloak, and a player can use dendro and/or electro reactions to break said cloak....but when they die well before they can cloak, does it matter?
You use different characters when you feel like it.
Imagine if wolflord was even more of a stupid boss and forced you into a geo dps.
Every Itto rerun you would either be forced to use him/pull him or give up on clearing abyss that cycle.
Being able to use who you want is one of the best parts of the game.
Being forced to use someone who sucks everywhere else is not.
Mhy could make the niche 4*s decent in normal teams and great in their niche but prefers to lock them to their niche.
Wanderful vid as always.
Although c6 in 4* is much easier to get than 5*, it's still not easy. Iirc from some zajeff vids, to get a new rate up 4* to c6 you'd need enough pulls to get the 5* to c1/c2 on the way. And for any new 4* they add getting any of them to c6 becomes harder as you're less likeli to get any specific 4* 7 times.
Also, even though they might get better with c6, 4* should at least be decent and playable at c0, which is not always the case.
Adding more specific content that need a specific ability would be an excellent idea if not for the amount of resin you need to invest on a new char to be decent. See Golden Wolflord in abyss for anyone who doesn't have a properly built geo unit/team (or that can't burst it down before the shield is up like some of those melt ganyu)
at 11:30 the problem is if you don't have that specific character it'll be hard to defeat the boss or take too long and if it's not neccessary we'll have no incentive to do the boss in the 1st place
You’ve perfectly encapsulated everything I am feeling at this point in time with Genshin’s structure and content!! Sure I can go off rn and build my heizou with a dps build, but will it inherently be worth the amount of resources (resin, mora, exp, etc.) I’ve spent when his damage output wouldn’t be quite on par to my 8+ characters that can consistently clear abyss smoothly? [+ considering there might be other ‘meta’ breaking characters that will be eventually introduced in the game, what’s the point of using up limited resources now?] What other motivation is there to spend the capped resin when we as a whole community come to terms that - unfortunately - some characters just have a clear power difference between each other that isn’t tied to ‘trash artifacts’ or ‘unbuilt’?
4:31 you said xl, xq, sucrose, and fischl needs atleast c4 or c6. to be honest i think that only matters with xiangling and to some extent xingqiu and fischl for uptime reasons. sucrose doesnt need any constellation AT ALL. we need to stop underrating sucrose
Here's a crazy incentive for playing characters outside of the meta top 10. Having fun. Avoiding boredom. I think you were trying to talk about extrinsic motivations only, but at the end of the day, that can't be the only thing motivating you to enjoy all the game has to offer.
The modern 4 stars after 1.6 cannot be very versatile, because its the only way to keep the 5 stars very valuable and makes some good sales, remember the last time happen to Albedo's first banner, the 4 stars Bennett, Fischl, and Sucrose are absolutely very good and kinda overshadows Albedo's value alot since release, and also some people talk about "How strong is Shenhe compared to Bennett" literally a 5-star compared to a 4-star tells much how many of the original 4-stars are too OP.
Edit: But ehhhh, over the past patches, hoyo doesn't give 4-stars a good kit or good scaling for utility and damage, they becoming little stingy about it tho, only Heizou and Kuki that brings good value to the table, so I debate my own comment haha.
But they don't have to be like Bennet XL or XQ. Rosaria is an example of an okay 4 star not op but still usable in many comps. Now let's talk about Sumeru 4 stars though holy Sh*t it feels like Amber all over again.
Honestly it’s not that bad. 1.0 4 stars are clearly overturned and hoyo knows it
So they want to release more interesting stuff and cool designs
Cuz we already have a meta and we don’t really need anything else cuz the og 4 stars + some other characters can clearl pretty much everything
The pattern is simple. Good 5* put in the same banner with sh*t 4* and reverse. That'll force you too pull on both banners.
@@rozee8516 Yes and no. For example I have Xiangling and I really want to use her in the abyss. Problem is that there's only 1 abyss chamber I could fit her on. So the other chamber is pretty much dead. So I wouldn't mind having a 2nd Xiangling like Yelan being 2nd Xingqiu. But ofc mhy wont let that.
@@musicdz8135 well she needs bennett
If you play the game you’ll eventually get 5stars anyway + other 4 stars + free characters
With dendro now we have even more options
if hoyo will make more situations when u need a specific character , people will be overrun by tons of characters to build and not enough ressources to build them , far not enough , it would take years to prep for the actual gameplay
we shouldnt need to build anyone , just the team comp we want to , if u were hired at hoyo guaranteed everyone in the community will hate you for making everyone need to spend tons of our time and resin for characters we dont even want to play
Specific 4 stars being required to clear content sounds cool but they'd probably have to lower the bar for how built a character is to be considered good enough. Unlike the other gacha games, genshin doesn't let you build your characters consistently. In d4dj and bang dream, you put in your exp materials and you're done. There's no rng for artifacts, rng to get certain weapons, your version of the unit is the same as everyone else's. And I can't be bothered to spend 10k resin on chongyun for a 1 time monthly dungeon, no offense.
My main reason for not using those strong 4* from 1.0 is because I got bored. Sounds funny, but I'm serious. Using thr same few units for 2 years got old 😅
Units like Layla are so fun and I love her animations. These sorts of units give some fresh air to the gameplay even if it's "less effecient".
In relations to you suggesting raids. I remember during yelan patch when we had that event they had a puzzle solving enemy rush dungeon that rotated out random characters and I wanted that to be a permanent feature. It felt nice knowing I needed to actually make sure I farm up for not just 8 characters for a change.
That was not puzzle...that was still dps check and only thing you needed was that the you needed to have like 8-10build characters or play smaller teams
Rigth now i have like 40 characters and for me is also about the farming i have to do to make those units shine, i have alot of 4* at C6 but they are lvl 20, because after seeing myself farming for months to have a good set for a character i don't have the motivation to do it again for a 4* that is just niche.
And some of them need artifacts from a domain that isn't worth farming because the other set in there is for a DPS or other niche support that i don't have or want
7:50 I think you forgot heizou- im pretty sure hes considered an on-field dps and his numbers/damage is actually really good!
7:45 Poor heizou, totally forgotten....
hmmm. for the most part i agree. the weapons are in a similar state, but some of the 3 star weapons can be BIS for higher tier characters. from thrilling tales to a very specific team making slingshot BIS for yoimiya, some of the lower weapons will also see use in more end game play.
as far as not using more 4 star characters, that is going to depends on the player's goal. personally, i like to mix up who i use where and to what end. i like the challenge of trying new things in both solo and co-op.
i do have intrinsic motivation to build "bad" characters, and it is that i am an insufferable contrarian. i'm currently trying to get lisa and qiqi up to speed, will probably attempt to build aloy in the future.
"The last 4 star DPS we had was Yanfei"
Heizou: ...
abyss should force you to build extra characters but this is the problem: build new characters is a pain, f2p dont want waste pulls and resources for 4 stars, there is no egde of error: if you waste your risources for testing and experimenting your account is ruined for at least 3 months, for me genshin in this moment is in the worst position is ever been: too much rng, little to none free meaning rewards, very low daily risorces ecc...
Damn you for putting The Ideal and The Real in the background. Mah feels…
tbh I just like listening to your voice lol; its very relaxing
7:41 VARS literally forgetting that Heizou exists.
Without pity system for 4* they are much more difficult to get and C6 them, you can reach the pity of the 5* run but don't get the any copy 4* you want from that same banner run.
Maybe paimon store could have more copies of more 4*?
Nah chief, I'd really not want specific specific that only favor one or two characters, like your charged attack catalyst idea. It would just force me to use a character I don't particularly wanna use, and potentially one that's not built. I build characters I like or wanna use. If you want a reason to use Candace over other hydro users, Hoyoverse puts a lot of work into fleshing out the characters. How about their lore, design, general fun factor when using them, and then maybe also because they apply their element in a better way than other users of that element. If all you're looking for is a gameplay reason to use a character, you're really missing out on a lot of aspects on this game. Play who you want and for fun. The game is simple enough to where you can do that.
Wait is the music a rearrangement of Maruki’s therapy theme??
I agree with the part that using the 10 or so same characters gets boring in the long run
If any character is decently stuffed and leveled, chances are they'll steam roll over anything in the overworld
But, having bosses that require a specific character to down them might be a problem since you'd pretty much be doomed if you don't have said unit and it'll also force you to spread your ressources thin
I think it really depends on the player and how much time they invest in a character; personally speaking I'm F2P and don't have constellations on 5* (I really can't afford to put money in the game to get the constellations)
Meaning that my 4* characters are more than decent at clearing content
Heck I've invested so much into my Ning that she does more consistent damage than most of my 5*
Anyway, love your video essays ! They really do give food for thoughts