The Impossible Boat Hire
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- What makes this seemingly trivial boat hire impossible to complete? Watch this video to find out!
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Outro Music: • RollerCoaster Tycoon g...
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No, no, this simulation is accurate. People can actually be this stupid.
I hate that you're right..
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
I was at the brink of falling into the water when an idiot tried to impress his girlfriend rowing at ramming speed. So, yes, what happen in this game with the boats is real as life.
I work retail & have self checkout machines; one of them is credit/debit card only. Despite having several signs saying *NO CASH* / *CARD ONLY* - I still get people who use it and ask me "where do I put the money" 🤦♂️
@@bluekewne that reminds me of the booffet I work at and people constantly ask me where the ice cream machine is, even though we're both standing right next to it..
As someone who works at customer support, this looks like perfectly normal human behavior.
Indeed. Sometimes people are indeed this dumb. Or dumber.
Crazy theory: all guests are blind and only sense rides and scenery looking nice by their enhanced sense of smell, which fails them in certain situations.
And how do they feel intensity enough to give it a rate? :D Good try tho
Con of this theory: Doesn't explain why guests take so many pictures.
Pro: Explains why guests are willing to pay for ride photos when the train doesn't pass the photo section.
So that’s how they determine intensity ratings- they smell the other guests’ fear
@@Karmalthazar they smell other guests' fear
How do they fear tho?
Guests being aliens would actually explain a lot. Like their super strength, inability to swim, and falling extremely slowly. And the fact that you can build theme parks in historical castles, next to the Great Wall, etc.
Not just inability to swim, the healthier guests will drown before the tired guests
compare it to Sectoids, Aquatoids or any aliens in XCOM UFO defense and Terror From The Deep
And they all look the same
@@FearTheWeird300 With same voices talking rubbish... One seems to say "Toh-keh-toh", i don't know what word this is...
These are some huge RollerCoaster Tycoon lore developments!
I would love a video dedicated to wild accusations like this!
@@jaketarren yesss
Mr Bones: "My wild ride is the longest ride in the RCT universe!"
Marcel: "Hold my unconnected Boat Hire guiderail."
Doesn't Mr bones wild ride not actually have an end, it just forces you back onto the coaster? So its the same, the guests are permanently stuck.
The Universe Coaster: "Amateurs"
Or, in my experience, you can just let them be free and eventually 2 boats will wedge the exit shut. No need to get stuck by scenery.
I ran across this problem a short while back - I’d built a large square aquaduct around a Roman zone, and put a boat hire on it. The guests, bless them, couldn’t find their way around the single-tile waterway.
This sounds amazing! I want to see photos! :D
Thanks for a nice design idea :)
I have seen boats get stuck in guide rails leading from an exit before, most often when two boats try to enter the same rail at the same time. It happens so frequently in fact that nowadays I generally just don't bother building Boat Hires without guide rails. Letting these little idiots do as they please is just more trouble than it's worth.
Yeah, was searching for this comment. Having the same problem here. Is there any way to avoid this?
I remember this behavior from playing the original games in the past and remember being super annoyed by the red "Boat 2 hasn't returned to the station yet" message.
Later I tried using OpenRCT2's Tile Inspector to somehow create invisible guide rails to create the illusion of free roaming boats, but I wasn't clever enough :D
I'm not 100% confident this always works, but whenever I build them, I always use no guide rails and block off a relatively small area off like a cage - so long as it's still rectangle shaped, the guests will retain freedom whilst (usually) not getting stuck.
I at first thought you were talking about irl because I've seen that happen irl.
Same problem can occur for Transport Tycoon (another Chris Sawyer game) when some buses try to enter and leave a station at the same time, you can end up having the vehicles all stuck in the same spot. At least in TT you can fix it by trying to make the buses turn around, but you can't do that for the boats in RCT. 100% you should just force guests to follow a rail instead of giving them freedom because of this.
Me: why is my park rating dropping?
Boat hire: 20 boats rowing on one piece of land trying to get into the exit.
Wow, that was actually kinda surprising. The amount of quirky little details like this that this game is hiding is astounding. Very interesting little vid, thanks for sharing! Now, as happens every time I watch one of your videos, I feel the strong urge to boot up RCT...
I appreciate that the test happened in year 6,969. That's pretty nice
“Even though I can't see if this 20 mile section of railing is connected to the exit of the ride, I refuse to try it anyway.”
On large bodies of water, I would also make a box out of the guide rails that would surround a roughly 4x4 area were the guests could paddle freely. It lets them have their freedom without having them get lost or stuck due to their weird AI.
It still makes me laugh seeing the guests jump to find the exit in an open 1 room maze.
My boat hire trick was always to build a complete perimeter of track but with openings in to the middle of the circle so there was still some freeform. I'd also done it with three sections, but never noticed guests never went in to the middle section. Cool stuff!
It's amazing that this game is almost 20 years old and you're still making videos about things that not everyone knows! So cool, keep up the good work!
>Design a boat ride with a very linear path with a couple holes.
>Call it "DON'T GET LOST"
>Riders struggle for a few THOUSAND in-game years just to get back on the track and finally exit the ride
>"DON'T GET LOST" was great!
nice Vargskelethor reference
"Maybe they're all aliens that have enslaved the human race to build theme parks for them"
So when I'm drowning guests I'm actually instigating a rebellion?
I predict, the next openRCT2 will patch this pathfinding logic, just to mess with MarcelVos.
This would likely be trivial to fix.
Have the game check whether the track is connected to the front of the station instead of the back...
This would be incredibly hard to change. Boat hire reconnection to tracks is already complex.
@@bbgun061 What would happen when two guests enter a completely disconnected section of track from opposite ends?
@@HairyHariyama exactly what I came here to say.
The only viable fix is to make them all one way directional
@@BenjaTheOne OR guests can "latch" the directionality of a section so it becomes one way when occupied?
4:15 Guest: "The inner machinations of my mind are an enigma."
**inner thoughts are a lamppost bending down by its own accord**
Comments you can hear.
1:31 The guests have clearly had their brains replaced with those of flies.
Being able to find the tiniest opening to enter a place and then smashing yourself against a window (or railings in this case) because the exit is on the other side is something only an insect is capable of doing.
I started watching this channel for tips and interesting trivia on one of my favorite games
Now I'm here for the hidden aliens enslaving humanity to build theme parks for them lore
the jet ski being named "YOUR GREATEST NIGHTMARE" is so in character. love it, Marcel.
In before OpenRCT2 fixes this too.
Thank you Marcel for these fun videos.
give it 2 days and it will be fixed
This is a bit of a more complex fix because as marcel said you need to stop guests from going backwards into the stations so I would say it’s probably going to take longer then the hedges, but not too long.
@@techpriestsalok8119 I think it could be done. The AI that checks for valid rails could be improved in some ways. I have some ideas on that:
1. Remove rule that disallows boats from entering rails not connected to exit.
2. Replace it with rule that disallows boats from entering rails connected to the start.
3. Add new AI for boats using rails. If boat hits another boat while in a rail that isn't the starting connected rail, reverse direction and attempt to exit the rail. Reverse again if they hit another boat.
4. Hope that eventually the boat that started the traffic jam gets the hint and reverse out of the rail which will eventually allow the other boats to progress through the disconnected rail.
5. The previous can possibly be avoided by allowing peeps to remember what rails they traversed through and not allow them to use a rail more then once thus preventing situations where 2 boats entering from different ends of the rail would cause them to collide and get stuck in the first place.
6. Realize that this won't prevent boats that never used a disconnected rail before from entering at the wrong end with another boat that also hasn't entered that rail before from entering the other end. So some track designs can still cause boats to get stuck. (One can also add rule where peeps avoid non exit rails that currently contain a boat. This would slow things down and only allow one boat at a time on any non exit rail, but it could perhaps be an easier solution)
So yeah even then I still for see issues. It all depends on how much more complexity you want to add to the AI for the boat hire given the limitations of how the AI works. The big part there being whether or not it's possible for the peeps to "remember" rails they previously used. Adding that might not be possible. I don't know what the AI system for the peeps looks like or not. If it's a hive mind type of system it would be very difficult to give specific peeps data like that without causing a lot of memory/CPU usage probably. So yeah that part might not be possible without a big change to the overall AI system the game uses. So probably instead would be better to just prevent peeps from using non exit rails if said rail has a boat in it. It would slow down the flow of boat traffic but would be easier to code.
My best guess is the peep AI is sorta hive mind like another AI system I've interacted with in a unrelated game. Battlefield 1942. In that game you can't really control what any specific bot does. But the game has AITemplates and other things that can control how a bot interacts with something be it a vehicle, control point, etc.
So I imagine it's the same for RCT. Easier to define rules for things the peeps interact with. Harder to give "specific" peeps any predefined behaviors/data for specific things in the environment. I'm sure it may be possible. It really just depends on how RCT did the peep AI. :P
The concept of guests being aliens just makes me want a Homestuck mod for RCT2 that turns the guests into trolls. Homestuck brain is at it again, there is no escape
Amazing how the inner workings of a 20+ year old game still fascinate. Keep up the great work Marcel, love your content as always!
These railings are scary, I’ll just stay here and die 😂😂
If the guests aren’t human, that definitely explains how they’re able to survive that one coaster owned by a certain skeleton
Would be interesting if the open RCT devs fix this in an update. I don’t think it’s as important as they did for the path finding for the maze but you never know.
This, together with the fact that they drown incredibly quickly, are immune to G-forces and explode when stepping off the minigolf course, makes me believe that the 'guests' are actually weird robots in disguise.
Ngl, that alien bit got a good laugh out of me. I like it.
I find that they will often get stuck at the station when going back in if I use the railings to let them guide themselves in from open water. Very frustrating. Same thing happens with certain go-karts, too.
Marcel posts in depth looks at various aspects and features of Rollercoaster Tycoon 2, a nineteen year old game I didn't play much when it was released and barely play now and yet, whenever he releases a new video it's an instant watch as soon as I see it.
I'm not sure what the allure is, or how Marcel has managed to find as much stuff to talk about in this game as he has, but it's still great stuff.
I'm curious about the technical side of RCT2. One of my biggest questions about RCT2 is: is there a way to softlock a scenario? A state where the scenario neither fails nor completes.
I mean there was the "Have Fun!" objective in RCT1 that was brought back to OpenRCT2
There are scenario goals that don't have a fail condition, such as "Make x amount of profit from ride tickets in a month". If you just hire tons of staff and let the game run for a while you'll have a lot of negative money, meaning you can't ever build anything and will never pass the goal.
I guess it makes sense. The unconnected guides aren't actually connected to any ride so the boats have no reason to consider entering them. I assume this also prevents boats from entering stations they didn't leave from.
You brought up a good point with the “guests know the exact ride intensity” fact. How different would the game be if peeps had a chance to ride something above their preferred intensity level and come out less happy than before?
Game dev: implements simple pathfinding algorithm
Marcel Vos: aliens
Should have made the guide rails one-direction only. That'd prevent boats from re-entering or getting stuck if entering from opposite sides but would still allow more creative setups.
Told you, each of em is like a group of single-cellular organisms working together like the man-o-war ''jellyfish''. Powered by natural uranium.
From my experience, a complete set of railing from the start of the ride to the end is the only thing that works for the boat hire. If you leave any open gaps, eventually someone will get stuck there and block the exit for the other guests. At least in RCT1 they do this and I wouldn't be surprised if it's exactly the same for RCT2 as well. Maybe OpenRCT fixed it.
The Wacky Worlds expansion gives credibility to the "Guests are Aliens" theory, since you can literally build Parks on alien planets.
There's also an alien planet scenario in one of the original expansion packs, I think.
@@SupersuMC Four of them, actually: Future World in the Corkscrew Follies/Added Attractions pack; and Crazy Craters, Icarus Park, and Venus Ponds from the Loopy Landscapes pack.
Enslavement, subjugation, an eternity of suffering... man, the deep lore of Roller Coaster Tycoon is kinda dark!
Great video sir, rock on!
I always have great luck with boat hire rides. I always build 2 separate boat rides. Both stations are on the same line of tiles, but face eachother. I leave one tile between the two stations, so they exit into the water, "crashing" into the other boats from station 2. Once they get into open water, they find the back of the station fast, and easy.
I never get the "I want to get off boats 1" thoughts on the thoughts list.
You're a strategic man! I know you could figure out a way to make it efficient, without using track/guide pieces!!
Happy playing!!, I've been playing this game for a solid 20 years. No cheats, just the original triple thrill, rct2 disk.
I absolutly love how your english is both so natural and so dutch at the same time. Lovc it
the guests are in fact robots. my evidence:
- impossible boat hire
- vandals have super strength
- exploding mini golf
- they can’t swim
Well done human Marcel Vos, this video pleased me for around 5 minutes. Now back to the sugar mines.
Oh my god this is why I walked build one track at the entrance and one at the exit platform for the boats 😂 I've seen them get stuck at the end because they clog up the exit
In vanilla I tried having guide railings only for the exit to guide them to the station, but what'd happen is two boats would gun for them at the same time and get stuck trying to get in.
RCT’s in-game world makes almost no sense and makes nearly perfect sense at the same time. That’s pretty much the crux of what Marcel has taught me.
I love these videos. I haven't played a RTC game since the first one was new, but I love listening to Marcel teach us these weird quirks of an amazing game.
I remember my plays, most of the times for my guests any open area for that ride was always impossible without any tricks, so I always play with rails.
You cover this game in such an analytical manner, I love it.
Well done mortal. This theme park pleases me.
This video is Marcel's way of reporting an issue to the OpenRCT2 community. Let's see how long it takes!
So much content! If you keep up, keep it coming. Love this
I mean... The real answer is that assembly is really hard to code in and it's amazing they have any path finding abilities at all.
I suspect this limitation also exists to prevent a boat from going into the wrong station if you have multiple boat hires in the same lake. It's just best all around if the bikes and swans don't get mixed up.
My main tip with the boat hire if you let them loose is to build fountains along any scaffolding that they could escape through. Keep 'em contained, and they'll be fine.
You can make ghost ships, too. If you build a guide rail into a separate exit station with no entrance, guests will disembark and the boat will leave the station and wander around with no pilot
My guess is the guide rails have a direction they can be used in, so that you can't have two boats trying to get through them in different directions. If it can't find an entry or an exit at the end, it can't determine which directions the rails goes, so it refuses to use them. This is probably explicitly done to prevent guest from re-entering the entry rails
this sounds plausible to me
But they aren't built like paths, they're built like coaster track, so the game does know which direction the rails (should) go and could enforce that the vehicle can only enter in the correct direction.
@@CaptainConfuzion the fact that you can put gaps in them and that the guests can leave the "track" and go out into any bit of water they want and then return to the "track" should be a big indicator that they aren't exactly track are they?
@@CaptainConfuzion Because the direction of the rails in my speculation isn't based on how they are build. It's determined by whether or not it's connected to an entry or an exit
I agree that's what the pathfinding looks to be doing currently. When the guests want to leave the ride, they head in a direct line-of-sight to the station entrance or the end of the track which connects to the station entrance. I'm wondering what it would take to add an additional check that if the vehicle encounters the start of a disconnected track section for the same ride, there is a chance the vehicle enters that track. That would solve the issue for the ride in the screenshot.
One thing I didn't see in Marcel's examples was what happens if the disconnected track section is in the direct line-of-sight back to the station track, rather than being farther away, but I assume it'd be exactly the same based on what we've seen.
I noticed this while playing Crater Lake, it took me forever to figure out why my boats all got stuck in one little opening.
Whenever I have to ask a dumb question, I feel like a guest jumping to find the exit in a wide open maze.
All the RCT2 people have severe social anxiety; they fear that entering a guide rail that isn't to the exit might make them unintentionally bump headlong into another boat, forcing them into an uncomfortable social situation.
You surprise me at each video you post! Thanks Marcel 😊
Fun video & analysis! Thanks for uploading!
Always a good day when Marcel uploads :) Thanks for the entertainment, man!
The boats also go in a circle that resembles the circles boats go in in locomotion when they get stuck on a half-water half-land tile.
I haven't played this game in at least 2 decades yet I didn't know I needed to know this fact.
Mr. Bones' Wild Boat Hire: The voyage never ends
"What is it human? Do you want more of those useless slips of green paper? Maybe if you entertain me I will consider it."
“Aliens that enslaved humans to build theme parks” make sense since it involves taking over historic areas and stuff
I love your videos! They make me laugh! Thanks for this one!
i think that rather than the guests refusing to enter the guide rail, the fact that it is separate from the rest of the ride means that it is actually registered as an obstacle like pieces of scenery, therefore the guest will try to pathfind to the exit but the rail is in the way and they get stuck
Marcel is the best source of RCT2 deep lore.
All your videos are great, but this one was great. I never expected that behavior!
What I do with boat rides, is using scenery, especially hedges, to create small ponds or block openings where they could get stuck.
I love the short clip of last Sunday's stream of Sherwood Forrest at the end :)
You keep impressing me!
Love all the videos, but this one was especially funny!
Fascinating as always.
My entire attention was stuck on if a boat would phase through a duck or if it counted as an obstacle. Like a presentation at work where you're watching the screensaver on the TV waiting for it to hit the corner of the screen.
I don't know if this is a common practice, but I like to use guide rails to build a fence around my boat hire, so that the ride is still enclosed but guests have a bit of freedom to roam within it.
Please make some extra long videos with just the music playing over clips of your parks. It would be so relaxing and interesting.
You know; I'm glad it wasn't just me. I always _hated_ building these rides as a kid because the guests never could seem to leave once they got on.
You can always find entertainment in Rollercoaster Tycoon for sure.
The guests being aliens makes too much sense.
Question:
Do the guests consider the disconnected bit a part of the boat hire, or different from the boat hire?
It would prevent a space of water with 2 or more different boat hires interfering with each other.
(Maybe another interesting puzzle?)
My guess is they view it as a piece of scenery
TIL you can use scenery objects to block boats. I had always used the landscaping tool to make it so boats couldn't get stuck between the shore and the station. Now I'll have to see how I can make it look nicer
Putting my developer hat on I think this could also have been a quick way to stop boats from going back into the wrong station if there are multiple boat hires on one body of water.
I've always built fences around the boat hires I build if they are in a body of water that is too large for them to reasonably find their way around in. Kinda of a pain to build fences on the water though so I don't really like building many boat hires. :P
I have an idea from programming POV. I think when people are entering the ride, they're "hooked" to it so when they encounter a separated track they're forbidden to go there because it is not a part of their ride. Interesting fact: RCT was created in assembler. Assembler compared with modern programming languages is like bike compared to a car.
Yeah but here is the thing Marcel... even if you put the guide railings up to help out the guests, they will still get stuck when two boats try to enter the railings at the same time and they get stuck forever. Try it out for yourself, it is a nightmare for me when I am trying to help the guests but they get even more stuck!
I remember trying to use a boat hire with multiple stations and realising quests would never enter the second station unless it was a complete circuit, didn't realise this was the reason. Very interesting
4:28 something about this view of the park is what i like about rct. its like cozy
The only solution I can think of that would resolve this issue is to allow peeps to enter any guide-way, but have them turn around if they hit another guest or the entrance to the station. this would mean that they could go backwards, but they would eventually make their way back out onto open water.
its actually new and specific to ORCT2 that boats can dock into open guiderails leading to the back of the station. in RCT1 and base RCT2 they will never dock.
I was half expecting that you say "this was fixed in the most recent version of open RCT 2"
I always used scenery..like the flower beds to box in where I want to keep the guests. Seems to work.
Marcel you always bring with simple things to laugh 😊👌
It feels like anytime I let them paddle freely someone ends up getting stuck which I just always use rails. Usually boat hires are just an after thought so I make a short rectangle. Does the length of the rails affect the excitement rating?