Nottingham to London in 10 minutes: Great Central Railway flight simulation
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- We follow the path of the former Great Central Railway London Extension, from the site of Nottingham's former Victoria Station to London's Marylebone Station, approaching London on the Metropolitan Railway route, via Aylesbury and Rickmansworth. With the aid of Google Earth we cover the 130 mile trip in just 10 minutes. Yellow graphics and text are used for disused sections of the line and abandoned stations. Grey graphics and white text are used for line sections and stations in current use. Only stations which were served by the original GCR are labelled (for example, there is no label for GCR Ltd's terminus at Leicester North, or for Chiltern Railways' Aylesbury Vale Parkway).
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Fantastic work! Made me feel a bit sad actually. It's like a scar, a reminder of what we used to have. Destroying it feels like the worst kind of vandalism.
I agree. It was built to a very high standard of gauge and alignment and could have maybe saved most of the pain generated by the HS2 fiasco.
@@siobhanlewis2706 The Great Central was very very similar to HS2 in aims and type, and obviously at quite a few points they are going to be in the same place (like at Brackley).
Both were express railways through mostly countryside with the aim of relieving overcrowded existing mainlines.
I am of the belief that eventually people will realise the benefits of the later phases of HS2.. it's just a pointless delay to it now. As the first expensive phase has been built, from a value for money perspective it's ridiculous to not build the rest.
The Beeching report of the 1960s was a disaster but the governments of the day didn't have to implement it. They did and
we can see the results.
@@siobhanlewis2706 It was not demolished and destroyed enough. Now they are talking about extending it to the outskirts of Nottingham smh. Luckily, it was almost completely smashed up and built over in Nottingham and Leucester, so they won't be able to extend it any more.
I’m a big Great Central Railway fan. I am from Loughborough now. but born in Leicesterin 1953 just behind the Great Central Railway Station in Leicester watching this just told me we add HS 2 already built by Edward Watkins. The 1900s it was going go through the channel to Europe. I’ve not seen this video before fantastic really enjoyed it. What a shame this line closed by MP politicians. For transport they haven’t got a clue about the future. Many thanks, Colin.
The Great Central Railway was built to Continental Loading Gauge, what ever that means.
Seems a great shame to have shut most of it down.
@@fredericksaxton3991 One of the great myths of the GCR. The Continental Loading Gauge (or Berne Gauge as better known) was developed in 1913 and became effective in 1914. The GCR London Extension was completed in 1899. It appears more generous because it was designed against the background of over 70 years experience with fixed rail construction in Britain, but in comparison with the CLG it is still smaller.
Best.GCR.Video.Ever. Awesome, and shows that there are a lot of old sections left. Impressed with your drone's batteries too! ;)
Well done loved it the GCR lives on
Brilliant work as is. It may be nice to do a more detailed version showing all the GC connections, e.g. to Banbury etc
Brilliantly done - excellent view of the route.
I see from the comments that the 'continental loading guage' myth persists (though of course it would be easier to re-engineer a closed line for this than build entirely new).
I'm (just) old enough to remember Nottingham Victoria, and I'm pretty certain that as a kid I travelled at least part the way down the line.
Wow. Amazing. Was all of this once railway track?
Amazing to see how far apart the stations on the Metropolitan line are in the suburbs and even more amazing to see the distance between Quainton and Amersham which the Metropolitan once did cover.
Fantastic work, thanks!
That was marvellous.
Thanks. These videos take time and effort but I'm usually pleased with the results
Pity about the music.
Brilliant! The next best thing to a cabride. And taken before too much evidence of HS2. In places it is clear to see the huge land take, in order to provide gentle earthwork gradients, which are now swathes of woodland.
Brilliant work
I enjoyed that, I kept stopping to confer with Bing maps to view the surrounding area.
Interesting viewpoint, thank you. It goes to show that the route was not a very straight and high-speed alignment as so many believe it was, also too much development now blocks the trackbed for it to ever re-open. Not that there is any room for extra expresses at Marylebone anyway. The lack of population between Rugby and Brackley is also quite clear.
A comparable exercise for the jerry-built Midland Main Line between Nottingham Midland and London St. Pancras would reveal just how hilly and sinuous this main line is, even in comparison with the dismantled Great Central Railway. At the very end of the 19th Century the machinery needed to move huge quantities of earth and stone to create a true High Speed railway alignment simply didn't exist. Nor would the capital required to fund such an expensive enterprise have been readily available from the financial markets of late Victorian England.
Broadly speaking we need to stop looking at old lines with nostalgia. While it's depressing to see how much was scrapped and the loss in capacity/redundancy, just reopening lines or reversing Beeching isn't a good solution. Reconnecting communities would be better done with new lines for 21st Century needs in an integrated network, rather than relaying 19th Century alignments.
The line was conceived as a link from Manchester to Paris, so intermediate traffic, except for London, was of secondary importance. There was one exception; in the late nineteenth century, Nottingham City Council complained that the city lacked a centrally sited railway station, and gave the Great Central the go-ahead to build Victoria, especially as the site was a huge slum, which, presumably, the Great Central or its contractors paid for. There was a major civic ceremony when the station was opened. Ironically, the people who wanted the station were just as keen to get rid of it just over 60 years later! Several intermediate places have expanded considerably since the line closed, and the inhabitants of one of them are calling for a station. I will concede that the line was not dead straight, but it was mostly well-aligned. There were minor restrictions through the stations because of the curves round the island platforms. If the political situation in the early twentieth century had been less volatile, the Channel Tunnel might have been built then, and Edward Watkin's dream would have been realised.
@@kitfagan2027 If we were to build new railways, they would have to be substantially on the lines of those which were closed. To put, say, a branch terminus on a through route might mean having to build extensive earthworks. I think that the Victorian builders mostly got it right. There were problems when some landowners refused to have a railway built on their land, or did not wish to see a railway in the vicinity. (That is why Catesby Tunnel was built; the owner of Catesby Hall insisted that trains could not be seen from the hall.) A 2997 yard long tunnel through relatively flat terrain.
@@kitfagan2027 What should have been done when the new towns were built was expand their rail services. It has never occurred to anyone that the Stevenage businessman might have business in Birmingham, for instance. Not long after the GC closed, an article appeared in the railway press by a businessman who had to travel regularly between two cities just over 70 miles apart. The direct route was the GC, sometimes with a change at Woodford. When the GC closed, the only way involved a change miles off route, a 40-mile trip on a high-density DMU on an Inter-City route, and a journey of about 120 miles, with no co-ordination of connecting services. Of course, the passenger had to pay for the extra mileage. He also had to travel less frequently to another destination which once had a direct service via two routes. One was the GC; the other was partly closed, and now has no direct service, and a route some 20 miles longer. The current network is too London-based. Incidentally, if Beeching had not closed lines on the Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds corridor, there would not be any problems with line capacity today.
Impressive video and quite sad to see how much urban sprawl has taken over the route in Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire. The famous railway author Hamilton Ellis remarked how the section south of Rugby runs through a landscape of strikingly virgin character, clearly apparent here; and to anyone visiting the old earthworks north of Catesby Tunnel, a must do experience
There is a definite difference in the engineering between the Great Central and Metropolitan Railway construction.
Bloody brilliant!
Seems madness that so much engineering and human labour was wasted building this line, or more accurately the act of closing it wholesale.
What amazes me is how the line is still intact around London.
They had to make sure to keep it open across London didn't they.
Around London the Great Central mainly ran on lines that already existed,so yes those lines were there before the Great Central and still exist after.
The Metropolitan Railway had built the lines at the London end before the GCR existed. Now they're operated by Chiltern Railways and Transport fot London.
Whilst the route up to Aylesbury does indeed run through the heart of Toryland, closing it would have meant encroaching on (then) London Transport turf, therefore the government would seriously have to argue that the Metropolitan line and other commuter routes weren't making any money. The 1960s was not today's era of culture wars, and a branch of the government starting a bad-faith fight with another public body would be a fast way to having some ministers resign in disgrace.
These disused railway lines wouldn’t have been wasted if they’d been kept intact as cycle routes.
Surprising how little has been built on really
thats what i was thinking, considering population and space available
Wonder if that was intended
Note that GCR needed urban demolition to get to central urban areas even first time around back then.
That’s a good thing. Why should the whole nation be destroyed to create cities of ethnic enclaves
Many trains still use various parts of the GCR alignment, thankfully!
NET (Nottingham)
Great Central Railway (Little Ruddington - Leicester North)
HS2 (Finmere - Quainton Road)
Chiltern's Aylesbury Line (Aylesbury Vale - London Marylebone)
Metropolitan Line (Amersham - West Hampstead)
I was trying to see Broughton Astley on here but either I missed it or it didn't show up...Might it be at 2:24?
The nearest point to Broughton Astley on the GCR would have been 2 miles away at Ashby Magna. Broughton Astley had a station on the Midland Counties line, 1840-1962, an entirely separate disused railway which also linked Leicester and Rugby, so your confusion is quite understandable! I've traced that line in ruclips.net/video/XObPoT9Q_pA/видео.html
@@flymuzza9205 Many thanks for that and for taking the time to find the line🙂
Great work! Well done! I have taken the liberty of downloading. The trackbed passes very close to my home in the Culworth area. We often walk sections and dream of what might have been. Having been built to Continental loading gauge with a Channel tunnel in mind, it would have made for a better HS2.
well, not really. capacity wise it would be good to have it but high speed? direct? Competing with the metropolitan line for space? not serving the west midlands or west coast? it barely fulfils the same purpose as HS2 other than being 'a train line to the north'. To reiterate, extra links to the east Midlands is obviously good, a very underserved area by trains currently, but the WCML would be as crowded as ever and the low speeds and likely infrequent trains wouldn't drive the same modal shift. just my piece.
It's a myth that it was built to "continental loading gauge" as at the time the line was build there was no such thing. True it's built to a slightly larger loading gauge than most lines in the UK, but nowhere near what is used on modern high speed lines.
@@ChrisCooper312 Thank you for correcting me upon this, Chris. I do always aim to be as accurate as possible when commenting upon videos.
@@stuarthall6631 I used to spread the same (including that it was "Bern Gauge" despite the GCR being finished before the Bern Gauge came into existence), until corrected. That's the trouble with myths, they get so widespread that even people who think they know what they are talking about believe them without question.
The GCR would have been good as a freight route though, since it wouldn't have needed the same gauge enhancements that the WCML needed to take containers, and would have been cheaper to electrify since less bridges would have needed rebuilding. The issue is that it wouldn't be suitable as a high speed route, or be able to take double deckers, which is what people tend to assume when people talk about "continental gauge".
@@ChrisCooper312 Thank you, Chris, for such a thorough and courteous response. Much appreciated! Have a good weekend!
Awesome!
Thanks!
What everybody else has said and good music!
Considering how much of the GCR London Extension remains, built to the continenal loading gauge, was it not considered for use as HS2? Surely would have been cheaper than building on new land?
Imagine if the channel tunnel and a line connecting it to the north had been built to continental loading gauge, and used for international freight. You might have seen that mythical economic growth they now dream about.
Amazing piece of work. I am trying to spot Grendon Underwood Jc (that was) where the line diverted right to Ashendon Jc. Must be there just north of Quainton Road. Any any time stamp clues, anybody?
About 6:16. The branch to the right is now a road (apparently not a public route)
@@flymuzza9205
Very many thanks for that information. Thanks again for a splendid video.
An earlier video follows this stretch of the line at a more sedate pace, with some features labelled: ruclips.net/video/uOfbiPnleI4/видео.html
Grendon Underwood Jn is at 7:40 in that video
Imagine if this had been electrified all way from Manchester to London, seeing the EM2s arriving at Marylebone would have been amazing.
I guess it is via Peterborough now?
The current route is via Leicester and Kettering - the former Midland main line, operated by East Midlands Railways
Lovely video, rather poignant really 😢
The old GCR was an extremely Bendy Wendy railway! The vast majority of bends are in open Fields where the line could have/should have been built straight.
There is Absolutely NO WAY a EC Gauge train, even with tilting tech could every travel at more than a Maximum speed of 200kph and only on short sections.
I remember Many NIMBY HS2 peasant folk who ALL claimed it would be better to rebuild/reopen the GCR.
It could never ever have a train travel at 350 to 400+kph on Any section of the Grand Central Bendy Wendy!
0:44 I can see my house 😂
Hmmm with it being so relatively straight and earth works making it level it almost looks like a high speed line to the north built to a..... oh hang on!
Don't say it. I love the old Great Central, but (1) it wasn’t built to continental loading gauge - in fact the GCR loading gauge wasn’t even all that big by British standards; and (2) it was a high-speed line *by the standards of the 1890s*. It was nothing like a high speed line today.
@JM-kr1tj I never said it was built to a continental loading gauge or say it was even close to todays high speed line specifications..... Just a comical comparison to HS2 a d the tragic waste and lack of forethought in this country that makes ambitions of 100 years ago only starting to reach reality today.
But thanks for the ever useful comment demonstrating that you too can read the hundreds of forums and books that echo what you say relating to GCR engineering standards but need to for some reason try and demonstrate that you think you know more than everyone else.
@@rafchris Whatever you say, chief. You do you.
Wouldn't an express train from Nottingham have gone via Grendon Underwood and Ashendon Junctions and then via High Wycombe to Marylebone rather than via Aylesbury?
If you look at working timetables (the GCR Society has some, and so does the National Archive), you'll find that almost all GCR line expresses went via Aylesbury. In 1928 (the only one I can remember right off the top of my head) the only "express" that went via Wycombe was the Marylebone-Mansfield service, which was the least prestigious express you could imagine.
@@Stone_Pony_67 That's interesting. What was the point of the GCR investing in the joint line with the GWR then? Wasn't it to avoid having to share with the Metropolitan north of Amersham? The Met still served Verney Junction until 1936 and Aylesbury until 1961. Please show some respect for Mansfield (Central), please - I grew up in the town!
Much better line than the midland main line to
In what way? It was 4 miles longer from Leicester to London, had no long sections of 4-track, had severe speed restrictions at High Wycombe or Rickmansworth / Harrow, shared tracks with other operators, had very poor connection options for freight, Marylebone was too small and was only served bu one tube line.
@@chris8405 - Gentle curves and easy gradients plus a loading gauge far more generous than that of the jerry-built Midland Main Line?
*This was really a HST Route many miles at 150 MPH Plus and 90 mph on the Curves - and don't forget Continental Loading Gauge so would have allowed Double Carriages' !*
No
I get this is just a simulation but the route simply is not accurate.
You can't get a train from Nottingham to London and travel to Marylebone via Aylesbury, Amersham etc
There is no train that takes this route
No need to rub it in Dr Beeching 😢😢😢
Are you serious? The GCR was a historical route to London which closed in the 1960's.
@@flymuzza9205 100 per cent I'm serious.
I can tell you with absolute certainty you cannot get a train from Nottingham to London that goes via the Aylesbury to Marylebone Chiltern/ Metropolitan line
If you don't believe me take a look at trains from Marylebone to Aylesbury and see where the train terminates
I know this because I' travel part of this route all the time
@@alric8 what's beeching got to do with it