Fort Pierce Repairs - Part 1
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- The diesel filter gets replaced but it's just another new part upgrade for the transfer case.
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"Trickin Pickin" performed by Doug Waterman
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Honestly Doug, you probably have the cleanest bilge in the US!!!
One of the perks of routinely breaking stuff. : )
I know you don't want to hear this, and I admirer your ingenuity, it is time to get rid of that rube Goldberg drive system you have. There is a reason marine hardware is built the way it is, and a truck transmission and a transfer case just don't cut it. I hope you never get in really bad weather and have to really lean on that engine to stay alive and all that pieced together junk fails again. Just the opinion of marine service manager of over fifty years.
If you watch that video again with another perspective, you can notice that SV Seeker is slowly becoming a marine manufacturer.
Doug knows everything, i hope he never finds out the hard way. I really mean that.
No! It will work just as good as a carbon fibre submarine.
52 Karen's in one spot we need a word for that
The snap ring snapped hahah
Yes, but exploded might be though better word as it was in about 30 pieces :-)
I once built an1930 Model A roadster. It had an electric drive. I too had heat issues with the controller, here in Arizona. SO after a phone call to the controller maker, I built a cooler plate like yours. I used computer CPU heat sink paste between the plate and controller. I also used the whole car radiator and electric fuel pump for the coolant. It reduced my temperature 20-25 Deg F. I needed more so I called the controller people again. They recommended to use a "Bath tub" style plate with no passages and to put the open side to the controller........OK, I did and used red anaerobic sealant. It reduced my temperature almost 80 Deg F. After ten years I chanced to remove the plate and other than discoloration, there was no pitting or corrosion. I used 50%/ 50% distilled water and food grade polypropylene glycol. Just a thought.
Correction, your roadster did not have heat issues. Arizona has heat issues. I’ve lived there :-)
Love to see the workshop producing equipment upgrades.
Vacuum aerated diesel. +10 Hp. New performance meta. Also, god I love your bulkhead doors. All that beautiful brass work.
LOL. We should sell shop vacs for that on late night TV and RUclips
I don't know anything about transfer cases, but at some point one has to consider if there's something wrong with the setup. If its breaking all the time, with hardly any use, something's fundamentally wrong.
@@ottard I'm new to tranfer cases myself but I do know that quitting before working all of the possibilities is for quitters. If that was me then I don't think Id be writing this from my boat now thousands of miles from where I started building it.
@@SVSeeker Perhaps. Like I said, the question is how far to go before trying something new.
Doug,… strong recommendation. When soldering a union, assemble the union first, slide it over your connections (both ends), and then solder the union into place. This insures your union is sealed BEFORE the solder joints are done.
Maybe if there was something to hold the other end that was not in the way and I was good enough not to get solder in the threads of the Union. : )
Doug, thank you for taking the time to make this new video!! You are out on the water while the rest of us get to live through your lens. The 20 minute length is good too for the view hopefully. Thank you the update !!
Told you before. I will tell you again. It can not lubricate itself at the angle you have it at. A pump and a few well placed oil squirters may solve that but oh well.
He never listens...
@@HighMXHubby LOL! I imagine he gets a million comments. Wouldn't expect him to read all of them. Not really serious. But I am serious about the oiling.
@SimonElenor if you have followed him, you know he will go out of his way to not follow good advice. I watched and followed him early on but stopped when he did some cruel things to mess with his followers. At least he is on the water.
@HighMXHubby what are you talking about
@hillslide about midway through the build, he stages a confined space explosion and ends the video. He swears his then wife/girlfriend to play along. Followers start contacting the local police, and local hospitals to see if he is alright. He comes back on a few days later from "vacation" calling it a prank. He pissed off and lost a bunch of his subscribers on how he handled it.
In the 80’s my neighbor built a v drive boat from scratch. Of course.there was no way he was going to afford a factory built v drive gear box. So he tried and destroyed at least 10 home built units. Each one a little better than the preceding. The one he finally was proud of had a double row #80 chain. Built in a section of box tubing complete with big flange block bearings and oil seals so the chain ran in oil. That was driven by a 455 olds and had no problems for at least 10 years..
Lets hope you get it sorted this time, thanks Doug....
I hope so too. We are running out of things to strengthen.
Somebody asked me once if I like boating or working on boats, and I have to admit there ain’t no real fun in boating unless there’s something to work on along the way. I’m pretty sure you and I are alike in that way. That’s why I like watching you fix things. Eff the rest of these keyboard engineers and all of their suggestions!
Spot on.
My unions always leak unless they're soldered while screwed together and under no bending force. Good job doing it split!
Never, repeat NEVER solder a union while it’s disassembled.
Remember me? I'am the guy with the CV joints!
Until you put CV joints you better carry a few cases to go, every oil change, you also put in a transfer case, transmission etc...
🤣🤣🤣
Very kind of you to offer but I see a couple of problems. First there are two custom yokes in the transfer case, another on the transmission and no evidence that the U-joints are a problem. Where as the helical gear pushing against the snap ring is petty obvious.
@@SVSeeker Your logic is sound but not complete. The whole sistem failed so many times that one should think there might be an inherent problem not yet solved. I still enjoy your videos very much, soooo.....we'll talk again next time. Pun very much intended! 🤪🤪
@@tanaseav And the problems all point to one thing. Torque. And you don't really have a viable CV joint solution for it anyway.
@@SVSeeker I have a small car with 1200NM at 2800rmp at the crank that uses stock CV joints for the last 4 years. The torque you have there is not that much...any CV joint from a decently powered truck will do you well. And keep in mind the boat doesn't do burnouts and clutch dumps :))
@@tanaseav But there is no reason to go to the trouble.
Hey Doug I’d just like to add to your plethora of knowledge.. when you had to cut copper pipe out to fit the Union.. plumbers and pipefitters use the term “Take-off” the amount of pipe that goes into the cup is called the “Make-up”. So your make-up is .7 inches and your take-off is 085 inches. As you said.
You are a massive inspiration sir. You have built an amazing vessel as well as you abilities to adapt and prepare yourself for solutions at speed is truly legendary. Thank you for your content
Thanks. That is very kind of you.
There's always someone who has dealt with the same problem, trick is finding someone to connect you to that person. Tod rocks.
I love your videos. Keep up the good work. Your inspiring others to step out of their comfort zone and do new things.
Iterative design results in the strongest components. Keep at it Doug.
I LOVE the onboard CNC, makes problem solving so much easier
We chatted about twin disc transmissions, we have exactly the same problem on Zeepaard, we really need a 5:1 reduction ratio but can't afford the minimum $12,000 dollars we found (used!). So we found a Borg Warner Velvet Drive for just $1500 rebuilt by a respected builder but it's only 2.91:1 reduction. We got lucky and found someone to reduce our propeller pitch a few inches to help our transmission overheating. We are only throwing about 50HP into the propshaft and happy to get 4 knots on our 100-ton steel boat, if we can stop the overheating and run all day we'll be happy campers doing 100 miles a day under steam if there's no wind.
is it possible to get a cheap manual transmission from local market and put it between the engine and velvet drive? Just about any pickup truck transmission or light/medium transport truck transmission would easily deal with 50hp and give you lots of gear ratio options. The 72c is rated 80-100hp @ 2000-2250rpm so if its overheating you might have poor oil or cooling for it.
@@NVMDSTEvil We have thought about it but space and other issues make it very difficult. We hope that improving cooling with a dedicated circuit and heat exchanger, routing bigger hoses etc together with our reduced pitch prop get us over the hum with no further major surgery.
..............G'day Doug,
oh the joy of fixing problems, will they ever stop?
Cheers and God bless,
Malcolm.
Some pressure washer pumps have higher pressure ratings with the only difference being a rear plate that allows for added oil capacity. That additional oil helps with added cooling for the oil bath. If the heat exchanger doesn't drop the temp to a point that is within range, consider adding more oil capacity which of course has additional fluid and outside surface area.
I love your determination, Doug. I think it's time to scrap the t-case idea. Transfer cases aren't designed for this type of use / abuse.
No worries. I cast the cat heads for the anchor winch a dozen times before it worked. I don't have a ship on the water because I quit easily. : )
@SVSeeker I'm def not saying you should quit. Far from it. I usually don't criticize unless I have something to bring to the table. It kills me to say, this time I don't. In theory, the t-case sounds like a good idea. I just don't see it lasting long no matter how many times you repair, rebuild, and learn. Maybe look into a reduction gearbox from a turboprop airplane? Just a thought, prob an expensive one lol.
@@Chris46319 Again. No worries. People said the same things about the Hundested pitch controller. : )
The company that makes pig mat also makes a version that only soaks up oil. It will not soak up water. Odd stuff.
Yeah, I got some of those. They work good.
Would probably have better luck using something like a rockwell T-600 transfer case, they are rated to run at power all day where a 205 (while it is a very capable case) is not. Might also be a better idea to use oil which has extreme anti-water and "stickifier" added like Valley V-Lube.
If you want a cheap and effective de-greaser that is great on ship, try some Simple Green. So strong it will take roofing tar out of a carpet, but won't damage it. It will take that final film off of things that typically takes a volatile solvent to remove. You can get it as a concentrate at any big box hardware store, it's biodegradable, EPA rated for discharge overboard when diluted as a cleaner, and it's safe for skin contact.
Yeah, that's what we use.
@@SVSeeker It's great stuff. Watching the video, the snap ring definitely broke from the force of the helical gear pushing on it in that direction with nothing to take up the force. I asked my little brother, who's an engineer, to confirm your suspicion. He also confirmed what I was thinking would be the solution, and that is that there needs to be a bearing surface or a thrust bearing to take the axial load from that gear being pushed along that axis or it's going to just break whatever is there or wear against it and then the teeth will become unaligned, leading to premature tooth wear at best, teeth breaking off at worst. I assume that the replacement part you intend to use takes this load and functions as a thrust bearing or bearing surface to keep the gear from being pushed in that direction.
@@KnightsWithoutATable That is exactly what the fix is.
@@SVSeeker Great. Now you can find the next weakest part in the propulsion system and have that explode.
I still recommend adding soft mounts for the transfer case.
That's a bit like the mass media. If we just say it enough it will seem true even without any evidence. : )
@@SVSeeker Soft mounts don't hurt anything. They absorb most of vibration and shock loads and make everything last longer. Also they are cheap. There is absolutely no reason to not install them.
@@tikkasen_urakointi But do you have any evidence for that claim?
I think with the x-fer case being seperate from the engine and the prop, and isolated by shafts with universal joints, that a soft mount is not appropriate.
Great work on China Girl. Much success in its completion, then 'anchors away'.
G'day Doug,
Little unfortunate about the snap ring & subsequent damage .
But the new fix sounds cool ,also makes for a couple of great vids .
Respect....!
Fingers crossed!
You are getting the bugs worked out, I hope, with the help of your friends, it works out great this time.
Me too.
I woke up early this morning thinking about the snap ring breaking and bearing debris. It sounds as though your buddy Tod has a lead on a fix for you and it will be interesting to see if it actually solves the issue. My thought is "slight gear lash" or unknown force against the weakest link in the drive train. Since every component is welded or bolted solid there's nothing to absorb any force known or unknown created from the resistance of the water, pitch of of the prop, alignment of the entire drive train or specific weakness of the Tcase. Unless I am missing something I watched the video from July last year (twice) I am satisfied that you covered all my previous thoughts I did not mention. When you showed the broken snap ring it made me think about force applied when running at a constant rpm/speed the effects of high temps which you have countered and last but not least no method of shock absorption. Like in a 4 wheel vehicle the drive train has lots of "flex" points as well as shock absorbers and whatnot to relieve some of the strain on the frame and drive components. I noticed in the July 23 video you corrected the "wiggle" by making everything solid. Of course that could have been causing unnecessary wear and tear that simply went unnoticed until ultimate failure. I'll be interested to see if Todd's friend has the fix and what it is? Straight cut gear teeth? To prevent that forward force on the gears you mentioned?
That I think has some merit. Not flex mounts to let the case wiggle around. That would just transfer movement to the output dive shaft that actually has more torque on it, because putting the Hundested that is connected to the prop shaft on flex mounts is simply a bad idea. However the torsional force from putting her into forward and the load from each power stoke of a piston has nothing to buffer it. I have looked at torsional couplings like Lovejoy, but the problem comes down to space. We already have customized shafts to make them as short as possible as well as the transfer case set slightly to one side in order to give us a bit more room.
Cool stuff Doug.
Ya know what I like about your equipment in your shop. ..Even after weeks or months of no use, when you need the thing to work you don't have to spend hours fixing equipment in order to make parts. I'm in the forest and non use on equipment let's the elements do a number on contacts and bearings. Also critters chewing on stuff doesn't help either.
That fouled out filter. In a tropical environment keep some sort of biocide in the diesel.
thats a cool exchanger, niceee
Thanks
Haha remember me, I warned about it.
I understand how much you must want to be remembered. But no. I don't remember you, nor will I now. But if you contribute something useful then perhaps one day someone will remember you.
Welcome to Riverside boat yard!
I'm getting very strong 'sunk cost fallacy' vibes from the whole transfer case situation. Hope i'm wrong.
So you’re telling me you would quit when they’re still a possibility?
Newer transfer cases are chain driven and much better for continuous operation...also run cooler
FOR THE LAST TIME; the NP205 needs a carrier bearing on the output shaft. HD 4x4 K30 trucks use a carrier bearing; even on a regular wheel base truck for this reason.
The drive shaft is not long; the carrier bearing is to remove the internal side shaft and bearing loads when the truck is under a heavy load.
Constant low range use increases the output torque load and side loading of the shafts and seals.
The aftermarket also supplies bandaids that bolt onto the back of the NP205; for when the builder fails to use carrier bearings.
Treat it like an HD truck; it's not a lightweight car.
I have been daily driving the NP205 for 32 years; attached and divorced. Divorced is my favorite.
The NP205 only fails when someone does something wrong in their build, and it always shows up after a few hours of loaded use.
Remove the side loads from shafts and bearings: TC will outlast the boat.
Even if there was room on the output shaft for a carrier bearing, how would that change any load on the snap ring that failed?
One thing about aluminum is, you can't clean up shaving with a magnet.
....but it doesn't leave little rust stains everywhere either. : )
Brake upgrade repeat
Cool video
It better work this next time as we are out of things to upgrade. : )
@@SVSeeker Rockwell made a slightly larger version of the same kind of transfer case. T136
Used in military 2.5?ton trucks. it may be a bit heavy.
*break 🙄
Hey, I had a thought. That transmission is from a bus, so its industrial. Likely used in 18 wheelers and such as well. Does anyone make an underdrive for the transmission? A junkyard underdrive might be the hot ticket should the transfer case still not be enough.
Not sure how much material you have left on the back side of that heat sink. But if you can mill a bunch of very thin groves into the back to increase the surface area, you will significantly increase the efficiency of that sink.
You didn’t even forget to put the nut on when you sweated the union in place. I pretty much always have to do that part twice…😂
...been there, done that too. : )
There has got to be an alignment problem with the driveshaft to be breaking stuff like that. Those tcases are bulletproof.
So why do they sell parts for the cases? : )
Grinding metal some where
No they’re not….
I'm not sure if it was ever changed. A self-welded shaft that goes to the 205 has a 90° yoke offset. This causes massive vibration.
@@SVSeeker I might be wrong here Doug but my understanding of the problem isn't related to alignment or vibration, it has resulted from the gear being forced against the snap ring while under load due to the angled gears, if so the repair coming up should be interesting
straight cut gears would solve the thrust issue but may be a bit louder. on the plus side no exploding snap rings
Time for that gutted 10speed down to a 2spd with a hydraulic clutch actuator
Haha, The prophecy has come to pass.
Yes, if you’re not paying attention, that is true.
That is funny, I know Todd, have bought several transmission kits from him over the years.
He is a good man.
I'm building a shop. Hurricane undid a bunch of building. In the process I fell off a ladder onto the table saw. Ouch, yes, but kept going. Safety 3rd or 4th whatever.
I just keep the top off then open gate valve and when I see fuel close the valve. Then put top on.
Good idea, but where is the fun in that? : )
Very interesting there.
I think so too!
It would be nice if they were straight cut gears to eliminate side thrust. Noisy yes . But worthwhile
It still astounding how much you have learned from when I saw you till now.
I love the quote from Nelson Mandela: "I never lose, I either win or learn."
The cooler should help. But if you remove the constant thrust pressure on the transfer case gears, it should run a lot cooler too.
Fort Pierce repairs.......Forced Pier repairs? :)
I love how you integrated your shop into the ship. Has there (is there) any floorplan of the SV Seeker, as you've configured her, floating around the interweb? I have not been through all of your videos, so I may stumble upon it if it is there!
Will you be in the port of Boston? Would I be able to meet you and say hello?
No, there is not. And we don't know. The plan it move north and fix thinks to make them better along the way.
Nice work on the TC. You just transferred $13K into the “Party Like A Rockstar” account!
Ha! I've not seen a rock star that I want to emulate. But there are more things to build and learn about. : )
Neat-o
I'm a bit like Doug. I prefer to build my own stuff. Not sure i would enjoy fixing up someones wreck as much as i'd like to just make my own from scratch. (That way, I can learn everything the hard way)
That is one hell of a slab of aluminum 😮 So what are you trying to achieve with the transfer case? A lower overall gear ratio? Steel boats are better than the plastic boats just have to keep the paint on them. Solving problems is so much easier today with the internet. I remember in the days before the internet..... getting info was a lot tougher you needed to know people in the know.
Ture that.
Ditto on the other get rid of it and buy a twin disc and never have to worry again
Actually they sell lots for parts for Twin Disc too. : )
Dont forget the teflon tape
Oh damn I live in fort pierce lol didn't realize yall were in town
We are enjoying your town.
@SVSeeker you should definitely visit little jims and the downtown while your here
@@codyharless4635 Done both already. Walked the jetties and Hutchinson Island and visited the Navy Seal Museum too.
I've been a subcriber since day one....totally LOVE being along for the ride but am now bwgining to wonder "will the boat EVER be fully seaworthy" and something not breaking down pretty consistently? Or is this just the norm for boats?
Congratulations on making it this far. The majority of the losers bet it would never leave my front yard. : )
At some point consider ZF220A. This is a great transmission, never had a problem. Around 4k used.
But no where near the 6:1 reduction ratio we would need. diesel-bec.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/ZF_220_A.pdf
The NP205 is a rugged and reliable HD transfer case with cast iron housing, gear drive with wide heavy gears and doesn't cost tens of thousand$ . Only one I've seen that comes close is the Dana 20, but those hang on the transmission via an adapter.
@@SVSeeker The 220A will only do 2.5:1
@@RonnFolk A Twin Disc MGX-516 would do the trick.
Throw that out and put in a hydrostatic transmission drive. You will find free pumps and motors at your second home aka the scrapyard. 😊 No, I did not make anything today, yet...
I think those are too inefficient and if you find one in a scrap yard in any sort of working order the only way it's going to be free is you make friends with the guard dogs and come back late at night. : )
Is there a set of straight cut gears for that t-case? I would think straight cut gears would elemenate most of if not all of the issues you have been having.
If there were, I'm sure Tod would know about it. : )
@@SVSeeker, this is true.
Straight cut gears would be noisy as heck. Especially with the transfer cases solid mounted.
I honestly dont know. We have put a ton of power to the 205 and never once broke one. Ive been building transmissions my whole working career 40+ years. And the way it has beoken the mounts there must be something else going on. Can you get an adapter to direct mount it to the 545?
I don’t know. You’re the guy that’s been doing it for decades. You tell me.
@@SVSeeker i would contact transdapt to see. I have never put a 205 on a 545. Thats an unusual combo but om sure it can be done. I think that may take care of any binding issues
Transfer case for gearbox not good, for such big machine room better use auxilary engine works also for pumping, charge battery, generator, wellding, hidraulics, and power for bow thrusters
Box Broke. Bad box. Bad.
@@SVSeeker For less money get cheaper marine auxilary diesel generator on japanese brands, chinese, brasilian, etc.. also allways have extra pulley, for deck hidraulics, also must ask for damper clutch for emergency pump etc… chech chinese weichai engine, some modles have a faboulous emergency start on spring hidraulics by manual pump, never more out of start because dead batteries (Weichai “Ricardo tech”) marine engine based on industrial engine.
The transfer case keeps breaking! Question: I have lost track. Is that originally from the bus, or just heavily modified? Do you need a more/stronger transfer case, Maybe from a dump truck?
To be accurate, different parts in the transfer case have broken and replaced with better parts, none of which have broken. I think the glass is half full. : ) And 4x4 trucks have transfer cases. School buses have snow days.
Hahaha. Your work is amazing and I have learned a lot from your channel. It may need to be a bit more skookum.
Jeep Rubicon gear driven transfer case. NP241OR or Rock-Trac case
getting strait cut gears made ant 13k go that rout may be ideal
They don't have them in straight cut but the solution is elegant. Part 2 will be coming.
If you want i can build you a gear box to go in place of your np 205
I can't really tell looking at the video, but I'm not seeing a slip joint in the drive shaft, if not it could be your problem ?
It's there.
why the hell did I just get offered and entire 20 minutes episode of Arabella as an advert?
Could do a lot worse. : )
What about some straight cut gears? I know they are loud in a car but it's in a boat.
If they were an option, I'm sure Tod would know it.
Hello Neill🍺
What's the transfer case rebuild # up to now?
Don’t know but we’re getting ready good at it. We are way past where the average Joe would have quit.
@@SVSeeker as I like to say while working with my son on motorcycle repair projects, "we do it right because we do it twice" hahaha
straight cut gears.?. noisy, but no thrust..?
Would an old CPU water cooling system help the transfer case?
That’s sort of what we have but a little better as it dumps the heat into the ocean.
7:24 did you solder the joint and forget to install the coupling nut? I did not see the nut installed before. 😮 That's okay. We all FU. But you can Admit it to us. 😊
Nope, but I should have pulled it up the pipe to keep from dripping solder into the threads. : )
Ive messed up, havent done anything mechanical in my life. Cant even check my oil cuz i dont have a clue what im looking at.
Apparently, you are not dead. So there is time. I’m learning as I go too. : )
You should invest in a chain fall and give yourself a little speed and less work than the come along.
😎
shame you cant get straight cut gears for the case.
You should talk to Matt at Matt’s Off-road Recovery
Does he have a transfer case in a boat? : )
I found out recently, the world doesn't care if you have all the skills, if you don't have the certs, your unemployable. Stupid world we live in.
Unfortunately, that’s true for some employers, but not all. Some of the best guys I’ve worked with had no degrees.
I don’t get it. I do a lot of the same tasks as SV Seeker but they pay me really well. Why would a guy enslave himself to a machine for free? There’s no freedom here just more work. I strive for efficiency and elegance so I can joy the boat, plane or vehicle. Task after task, SV Seeker is not a boat its perpetual project.
A great work ethic, the joy of leaning something new, meeting great like minded people, and loving life. Hope you find that too.
👍🏻👍🏻🤞
Automotive Transfer case doomed from the get-go. Sorry
Oh hell. I have heard that negative bullshit about everything on the boat. You're going to need to get to the back of a long line of losers.
Doug. Idk if it’s just my devices or not, but the blur, when the cameras in motion is really bad
👏👏👏👍😎
Are you sure that thing is in an f o r d
Fix or repair daily
Sorry. Most likely GM.
WAAAAAAAY too much solder on your copper joints! More is not better....as you discovered. Use no more than 1/2" length of solder for 1/2" diameter pipe....3/4" length for 3/4" diam. pipe, etc.
In before the nerds complaining about you not selling your kidney for something marine specific.
Exactly. I bet after this time it never, ever, ever breaks again. Ever.
I would like that. : )
Been a while but what is absorbing the thrust of the prop shaft again?
@@shitindawoodsbear2798 probably that transfer case
@@shitindawoodsbear2798 The Hundested variable pitch controller. ruclips.net/video/yAjs4EUUqVU/видео.html
@ svseeker