What do YOU think of Robert Downey Jr. playing Doctor Doom?? Are you as frustrated by it as I am? Comment below!💥 Thanks again to Brilliant!🧠 Get a 30-day free trial + 20% off an annual subscription ➡ brilliant.org/FilmSpeak/
If Tom Cruise, the original choice to play Tony Stark had played Tony Stark, then I can understand Robert Downey Jr playing Doctor Doom. But Robert Downey Jr coming back to playing a major super villain, then that spits on the legacy of Iron Man.
Not really bothered by it. Mostly just curious. I'll wait to judge this decision whether is was a good or bad idea to cast RDJ as Doom after I see him play the character.
That depends on how they handle it. sure it might not be the most comic accurate and this reeks of nostalgia bait and desperation, but if the writing is good and they remain true to the core of the character then we're good. Remember, NWH showed us this kinda thing can work. It doesn't always have to be "Nostalgia bait=bad"
Yes and no, the joke is true, but the problem with the multiverse is how Marvel has not explained it well, it is not that complicated or something that the audience hates, haven't you seen that the recent highest-grossing movies of the MCU have had the theme of the multiverse?, or how spiderverse won awards.
Well, let's run it down then. For the direction, we have the Russos coming back. The directors of Winter Solider, Civil War, Infinity War and Endgame. 4 of the best MCU movies (or 3 because the last of which is suddenly bad apparently according to the internet) The writer is Stephen mcfeely who worked on the 4 movies said above and the first avenger along with Dark World and Agent Carter. I'd say it's in good hands.
I think they've got it in their head that Avengers movies are for big franchise changing events. An Avengers movie or two a few years before these two movies would've been the way to go, people get introduced to the new Avengers team and you get a feel for their dynamics before the big event that is supposed to encapsulate your whole franchise up to that point.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Don't forget, we also have Waluigi, Big Wheel, Squirrel Girl, Ryan Reynolds' Green Lantern, One Punch Man, King Kong, Nemo, Snow White, King Shark with his fake mustache, Madame Web, Morbius, Donkey with Shrek's accent, a Minion, a slap-ready Will Smith, and Cosmo the Spacedog
@@pancakes8670 This. I've H-A-T-E-D MCU humor since the beginning, its like a poison that destroys every scene and its almost like they're embarrassed to be making comic book/super hero adaptations.
Cillian Murphy is the vest choice out there and everyone wants Cillian to be Doom and they chose RDJ. If they chose someone who is well known or A - lister they could choose Cillian, his acting ability also vast.
You should have just said it bro, cause it is true I ain't gon support this movie, not gonna buy any tickets to see it. Marvel should have cast Cillian Murphy
I used to laugh at people who said "Oh, Marvel is on its deathbed, it’s in need of a full reboot" but after this news I’m open to the idea of doing a full reboot after secret wars. Like, take a 5-10 year hiatus and the create a new MCU. Plus, now that they have access to all those characters have it be a world where the avengers and x men coexist with each other.
I feel like that’s the general plan (the reboot) and that’s why certain things don’t bother me cause at the end of the day marvel is just gonna reboot it entirely and have it go in a different direction. In my opinion I feel like superhero movies aren’t gonna die anything soon but I feel like they’re gonna dial down extremely, similar to spy movies, there was a certain point where spy movies was just coming out ridiculously
They literally should’ve gotten Cillian Murphy to play Victor Von Doom. I’ll bet what happened was they asked for the guy from Oppenheimer and instead they got RDJ.
I don't trust the Russo's after Endgame. They couldn't even figure out what to do with Hulk, and now they're trusting them with the multiverse. Heck, they didn't even let Thor finish his arc from the previous films.
What the MCU is doing is called "Jumping the Stark." On a gut level it just feels stupid AF. And oh yeah, where the hell is Shang-Chi 2? That was at least a successful introduction of a cool character to be part of the new core Avengers, then they completely dropped the ball.
2021 Phase 4 gave me so much hope. Black Widow, No Way Home and Shang Chi were all solid movies while WandaVision, Falcon&WS, Hawkeye and Loki were all besides some wonky writing pretty good shows. What I didn't realize was that the mediocre, unnecessary entry The Eternals was a preview of the 2022 shitshow to come. Multiverse of Madness, Love and Thunder and Wakanda Forever were minus a couple good moments so messy and filled with bad writing that I stopped paying attention in all of them. Then the She Hulk and Secret Invasion trainwrecks....that I watched about 20 minutes of before turning off..
@@hiphipjorge5755I'm gonna be completely honest, Wakanda Forever had more heart and more of an actual authorial stamp on it than most of Phase 4 aside from maaaaaybe NWH, GOTG 3, and Loki. I would've counted WandaVision but it just devolved into more CGI and SHIELD schlock.
It’s all pathetic writing, it’s been like that since Infinity War, Thanos is not even close to the Mad Titan we see in the comics and now we are gonna have a black Captain America, a virgin pathetic Hulk and who knows about the rest of the Avengers. PS: nobody gives a damn about Shang-Chi.
the thing with hugh jackman and ryan reynolds is there was untapped potential begging to be told. they had amazing chemistry in a bad movie and we just wanted them together properly. no one asked RDJ to return esp as dr doom. no one said “he was a cool tony stark but would be better as VVD” i think this “subverting expectations” thing is going wayyyyy too far. i need things to be 70%predictable with 30% intrigue/chaos/randomness. we’re in the “try hard to impress” aka “jj abrams mystery box” era of film making and its meh
Even so, I'd argue the only instance where the nostalgia cameos actively felt like they were done with a purpose was in NWH, and even then it's still an intensely cynical cashgrab as well as a needlessly complicated route to try and bring Holland's Peter back to square one. Jackman coming back just to wear the fucking suit that didn't even end up looking that great after Logan was meant to be his arguable swan song was always fucking stupid.
@@andytrevino4077 oh fosho and while i mostly enjoyed andrew garfield getting a “follow up/conclusion” to his story, its riddled with plot holes or down right destroys those other movies. im actually completely over the multiverse including self contained good content and leeching them for temporary cool points
@@SeanWheeler100 The needlessly exaggerated animated white eyes detracted from the entire thing, especially since half of Jackman's face was still visible, missing why it worked for Deadpool himself in the first place.
I think it’ll work if they never acknowledge that’s it’s RDJ. Doom always wears his mask, so keep it that way. Make Doom a compelling character. It can still work imo
@@LeMecQuiestCoollook at Mando S3, Pedro never took off the helmet. They could use his face as a reveal In-universe. Have him fight the Avengers, is getting his butt kicked, Spidey comes in for a blow, knocks his helmet off and Doom gets the upper hand and escapes in the confusion.
@kymerahYT Pedro didn't previously play a major Star Wars character. Pedro's face wasnt plastered all over the promotional materials Pedro wasnt paid 80 million dollars Pedro didn't demand a private jet Pedro didn't demand special directors We all know RDJ will not wear the Dr.Doom mask more than 5 minutes These movies will flop so hard.
Variety has reported twice that he's not a Stark variant, just straight up Doom with RDJ's face the same way Chris Evans and Mahershala Ali have played multiple characters for Marvel.
@@JaredHerron-vj6rf the difference here is that Chris Evans as the human torch in the Deadpool movie was a gag. Nobody took it too seriously. That version of him is from an entirely different IP. Here we are talking about a HUGE ip and the same one which is the MCU. People will just see another Tony stark, specially because he will have a major role. If he won't be a Tony variant, then why bother casting RDJ? That's the point, it should have been someone else.
marvels most iconic & best villain, one of the most interesting villains in media, the most hyped villain to appear in the mcu. Reduced to a tony stark variant. And yes, I bet my life it will be a variant, they wouldn't bring RDJ back if it wasnt a variant Bringing back RDJ was literally a meme before this got revealed, nobody thought marvel was actually that stupid
@@enragedbear I don't know for sure, but it could simply be because he has experience with a similar good character and could do a good character foil of Iron Man as Doom. Ik Doom is different from Iron Man, but they do have shared comic runs where this antithetical character foil relationship is explored a bit. Idk, to me this isn't a bad choice until I see a bad product with it, but im equally able to see how this could be done well if they play their cards right.
@@TheWerttyFiles I appreciate your open mindedness about the topic, and I will wait to see the movie itself before passing judgement. That being said, I hope to God Doom isn't played with the stereotypical theatricality and snark of Downey. While Doom is grandiose he's also very methodical and has a subtle intensity and madness to him like Phillip Seymour Hoffman in The Master. I know RDJ is a good actor and I'm hoping he can prove me wrong, but Doom seems to be the antithesis of the roles RDJ excels in. I just pray he acts him in a way that does service to how terrifying he truly is
He's getting more than 80 million, there's just no way this is just a voice acting job lol, he'll take his mask off every 5 seconds in both movies. They'll market the fuck out of this man.
@@xx_v_xx4373High paying actors always want to promote their image. High paying actors intentionally avoid having their faces covered a lot because they like to promote their image. RDJ is a high paying actor and he couldn’t even keep the Doom mask on in his reveal at comic con lol
the problem starts at the title "Avengers: Doomsday" - Doom is not a character that can first appear as just a villain for the avengers. he can't be a subtitle. his first appearance has to be just "Doom".
Well, of course he has to be a subtitle, the money people want the name recognition for the people who have no clue who that character is but know or have seen avengers.lazy and transparent of course.
I always looked at the Kang fallout as kind of a blessing in disguise (obviously horrible circumstances) but the recent movies/shows weren’t big hits so having to reset the saga with a different villain gave marvel a chance to take a step back reset some things that don’t work and make things more cohesive. They’re doing to the DCEU mistake of releasing justice league 4 years too soon
Feige thinks he's so clever. It's no coincidence that they timed this bombshell to coincide with the release of Deadpool and Wolverine. Secret Wars is gonna be fanservice incarnate. Disney is banking on Robert Downey Jr, Hugh Jackman and Tobey Maguire meeting up with each other to get bums in seats. Ah! But it's not the same Logan who died in the 2017 movie. It's not Iron Man. Ergo, their respective deaths weren’t undone!
The sad part is before the Fox acquisition we would have gotten a comic accurate Doom origin film. Even if it was terrible it still would have been a far more respectable effort than this crap.
@oreo_frito the one from the 2000s Fantastic Four wasnt bad. Only problem was making him share the same origin as Dr. Doom. Also, past 2019? Endgame sucked. Infinity War was the true ending.
I for one am frustrated with T he constant updates on Kang Dynasty/Doomsday and Secret Wars while seeing the declining quality of the most recent MCU projects. Marvel right now shouldn’t be focusing on their next far-off Endgame-level event, and instead be putting all their effort into making their regular releases now the best they can be.
Yep. Even build up to the next Avenger level events like teasing infinity stones in certain movies and Thanos in clips before he took center stage in Infinity War. They shouldn't do it hardcore just like Quantumania did. As good as Phase 3 was, I also feel that phase was what took Marvel on the route they are now in where they don't realize what made the previous saga so good but they think people will go for anything even if it's only hardcore build up when it's really stupid. Now they are way too desperate.
@@Dave102693it was solid at first focusing on what happened post snap and how it affected people and how people were handling the events of endgame like Peter with Tony’s death then it got crazy out of nowhere
We can only imagine how it would be to see him on the screen It would have been so perfect We tried to do that with John Krasinski Marvel hates when fans cast someone...They did Krasinski dirty on Dr.Strange: Multiverse of Madness
Downey as Doom is a What If… episode that you do when you’ve finished Doom’s actual villain arc. This is like if the first Avengers movie had starred Chris Hemsworth as Thanos.
I think Willem Dafoe-the actor who played Green Goblin in the original spiderman and no way home would be a better Victor Von Doom.His voice and aura would much the role perfectly.
Secret Wars 2015 is THE Victor von Doom story, and in the film adaptation Victor von Doom won't even be in it. This like if for the Infinity Gauntlet storyline they decided that the villain should be an evil version of Thor instead of Thanos.
Which is why it’s still weird to have Doom be the big bad. We’ll have him for three movies including Secret Wars and we’re just gonna skip all of his development to escalate God Emperor Doom? It feels rushed to all hell.
Honestly, this is a very disappointing choice imo.. I love RDJ and all but, come on.. Dr. Doom is one of the best villains in the Marvel universe. He was never represented well on screen, to say the least! And now the MCU has a chance to redeem him, and finally give us a truly great villain. But that would require effort. Casting RDJ feels so desperate and lazy! Why put in the effort writing a great character and looking for the perfect actor for the role, when they can simply manipulate our emotions with nostalgia by bringing back RDJ. So instead of an interesting new villain, all we gonna get is.. "an evil Tony Stark variant". That's just disrespectful to the character. I'm one of the people that argue that bringing back Hugh Jackman was actually a great idea, for various reasons. But this is different. I think they went one step too far.. LAZY!
This depends on how they handle it. sure it might not be the most comic accurate and this reeks of nostalgia bait and desperation, but if the writing is good and they remain true to the core of the character then we're good. Remember, NWH showed us this kinda thing can work in service of a larger narrative
MCU fans like yourselves don’t want anything original or creative anymore. They just want hollow “love letters” to better movies and cheap fanservice as a substitute for good writing and storytelling and filmmaking. That’s why people like Feige see the success of stuff like NWH and Deadpool 3 and use it as a blueprint to jangle some more keys in front of a fanbase who will clap like seals at anything put in front of them as long as they recognize it. These aren’t even real movies anymore.
NWH only worked because we wanted to see those actors back as those characters. As a movie it kinda fails beyond that moment of excitement anyways. This is just reusing the leading actor of a universe for a different role because they’re scared people have lost interest and they want a way to guarantee money. Big name actor=big money. Even if he plays the part fantastically, it’s just going to feel weird. It’ll ruin dooms character when he’s just a multiverse version that subconsciously we just see as evil iron man. He’s not supposed to be evil iron man.
@@bikramarora1819yes we can’t just allow them to keep doing this, Mark my words other movies will start doing this. We have to hold them accountable for having to rely on nostalgia to restore the feeling. I mean they sound just make an interesting new IP??? Is that too much to ask?
Imagine if Star Wars just decided to introduce a multiverse. It would suck. It sucks here too. It works in comics and cartoons. Not live action. At least not for a decade long "phase"
@@bikramarora1819it could be like Chris Evans as the human torch though. He looks like captain america in the MCU but in the fox universe he actually is Johnny storm not a steve rogers variant
@@bikramarora1819 because he is a good actor and marvel tried to make him doctor doom for the 2005 film, Kevin Feige and Jon Favreau talk about it in the 15 year anniversary of iron man video.
Y'all needs to pre-order your A:Doomsday tickets Marvel gon do that ol' bait and switch with y'all Oh you think RDJ is actually Doctor Doom...kazam nieguz...he's Tony Stark
First you say, "If you wanna take massive liberties with a C-List villain, no one gives a F. Go for it." But then immediately after, you use the exact same reasoning with why many fans have a problem with this: "When you remove all the elements that make a character a character, it no longer becomes an adaptation of a character and just becomes a different character altogether."- So this is the contradiction, and it isn't solved by saying... 'Well if it's someone people don't know, who cares?' Mandarin was only C-List because Iron Man was C-List. For decades. And look how a hit movie can elevate your profile. It wasn't too much to ask that Mandarin get the same treatment, and the modernized version presented in the trailers *was accepted* by fans as a cool and smart update. The twist on that was the mess, not the villain himself. He didn't have to be super popular, but he is Tony's primary nemesis, and the people who cared about Iron Man cared about that. I harp on this because a consistent argument should be applied to Doctor Doom without being hypocritical.
People keep saying Disney and Marvel are desperate. Which I guess they are a little bit, but this was partially RDJs idea. Not Doom, but he’s been saying for a year now he’s been wanting to come back to the mcu
I mean, I understand it if you feel like Mikkelsen would fit the role better, but he has literally the exact same problem RDJ does: he's already in the MCU. So if we go by the logic that bringing back RDJ is bad because he already has ties to the MCU, then that would also apply to Mikkelsen
@@robertmarginean164 to a much, much, much lesser extent and impact. Only 1 of the current characters could even reconize Mads (Strange) whereas everyone would know Tony
Doom is a villain *built* by character progression… AS a villain. The MCU is darned near allergic to *villain progression as villains* to the point they almost killed Mordo off in MoM… Urgh.
I think the biggest issue is who even is the leader of the Avengers right now? I don't think any fan can decide which character that is with confidence right now. Like during the Infinity Saga, yes anyone could say the Avengers leader was Ironman and Captain America. But right now, I don't know which superhero is supposed to be the new leader now. And I doubt anyone else knows
I kinda hope with the new captain america movie we get some kind of confirmation because right now we only know the villain and that’s more worrisome then knowing the heroes
I just think that we have to remember that a very small percentage of the audience actually reads the comics. Whether people like it or not this will make money and if it’s good, will make all the money. Just wait to pass judgement until we see the movie.
Please stop. If they can't sell me the movie properly, why would I waste my time and money to watch it? Why give them a chance when they haven't peaked my interest? What's the point?
No regular normal human being knows Doom all that well, I’d honestly put him on the same level as Ironman pre-MCU. So his mainstream appeal isn’t affected much at all.
The Mandarin twist in iron man 3... I didn't understand the backlash then, because the twist was genuinely good imo in terms of it's service to the story being told... The continued backlash to that twist downright annoys me now since Marvel has actually given us a true Mandarin, so fans can have their cake and eat it too... but the Dr doom casting.. I get it... I've gotten more annoyed by it each passing day...
Marvel just wants to big characters because they feel every movie of theirs is a hit ( not a hit = audience's fault ) without spending time building up the character through his/her story
A friend of mine did have a pretty cool idea for Secret Wars or Doomsday. Do the "Let's do a headcount." Iron Man and Loki exchange from the first Avengers, but have it be between Loki and Doom. Then it ends with Loki saying the line, "If we can't protect the universe, you can be damn well sure we'll avenge it"
Why does everyone keep saying he's just an evil Tony Stark who became Doctor Doom, when at Comic Con, Joe Russo outright says he's literally playing Victor Von Doom!? It'll just be Victor from an alternate universe, probably from the same as the Fantastic Four, and he'll look like Downey, just because of the multiverse and Marvel's desire to cash in on nostalgia. And his entire connection with the Avengers will be at the level of someone recognizing him as Stark, and Strange will probably say that it is not him, because this is a multiverse and everything is possible here. I still don't know how to feel about this, but it would be much worse if he was brought back as a notional Superior Iron Man. Because I can already see this scene where this Stark tells how he failed his world and became bad, and Parker from MCU tells him that he still can be a hero because his Tony saved the universe. And this convinces him to become good again. It's just boring, lazy and we've already seen them do something similar with Logan in D&W. I know Logan wasn't evil, but I think you get the point. But they won't be able to do that with Doctor Doom, because he's literally a different person! Because he is not Tony Stark and never was! But in general, I'm more concerned that Doctor Doom is just a replacement for Kang. He should have been there since the beginning of Phase Four and be in at least one Fantastic Four movie. At the same time, appearing in other projects, promoting himself as a future bad-ass large-scale antagonist. He needs to be bigger than Thanos and actually interact and fight with the other characters, especially F4, before becoming everyone's enemy!
I think it's more likely they're adapting Demon in an Armor: a "What If?" universe's Victor von Doom who swapped bodies with Tony. So it's Tony's body, but it's not Tony.
Absolutely agree. I dont know why so many love this decision. This is just showing that the studio is running out of options to draw an audience because even they know they cant introduce an origin story properly, leading upto a big fight without using recognisable characters/actors.
Dumb and desperate of Disney yes, but also kind of egotistical of RDJ. Was retirement from the MCU that boring that he's got to undermine the closure that came with his exit?
I wasn’t paying attention to Comic Con when the news broke. I got an email notification from THR that got cut off. It said “Robert Downey Jr. To Return As Doctor Do…” And my initial thought was, ‘Oh God, they’re making a Dolittle sequel?’
Deadpool and Wolverine is a love letter to old Marvel tbh, even though I didn’t like most of the other movies I loved it because you could tell the people involved actually cared about the move
I am a comic book illustrator and have worked for the studios in LA as well. I have been reading the books since 1975. This Is not a quick clever plot for sales. It will appear that way to the uninformed and that’s ok. But, we need to adjust and get some history behind this story. It’s been done more than once in the comic book industry. The story exists already in the Marvel comics. Dr Doom also connects the Sub Mariner, Magneto, The Fantastic Four, and of course the Avengers. Most of these movies are an amalgamation of many stories over decades even generations. Please take the time to check out the old stories and books and it won’t seem so crazy or like a cash grab. Gotta get back to work and I hope all of you continue to enjoy the movies and hopefully the comics. Wishing you all well.
Also, you’ve hit the nail with my issues with rdj as Dr. Doom. But I wanted to address the MCU Spiderman relation to RDJ’s Dr. Doom. What a way to spit on what no way home did. Let’s have an entire movie that steps him out of the shadow and finally do some traditional Spiderman stories. Only to drag him back to square one. Like, no, I’m not clapping like a seal to that. It’s just a terrible idea. Can we get some traditional stories from the comics? What made No Way Home and Wolverine Deadpool somewhat impactful is that it felt like we were closing that chapter on both the Sony and Fox universes. The end credits of Deadpool Scream Fox had its time in the sun. Now let’s look to the horizon and welcome a new era of these characters with different actors. But we couldn’t have that impact for two days without doing a nostalgia bait cash grab.
"The only people you'll have left is the hardcore people who will watch anything you put out and be HAPPY with it" Wtf?? You got that backwards. Its the casual audience that watches anything and is happy with it. Harcore fans are disappointed with marvel right now.
“I bet you’d probably say in one universe, I saved the world.. And in another, I sacrificed myself, to save the world.. This time I think I’ll save myself…” My impression of the opening monologue by RDJ for this movie or the first trailer lol smh
It's not cinema, it's not theme parks, it's professional wrestling with a few extra steps, this is the epic return of RDJ to the ring This is not meant to be enjoyed past the years these movies come out. What are your children gonna do, bingewatch 40 movies to see the 41th one in theaters?
You really are about to make the exact same mistake you made with Deadpool and Wolverine for the past 2 years with this. Self-awareness is well and truly dead here. Can't wait for the video titled "Avengers: Doomsday is ACTUALLY GOOD?!" in 3 years.
Here’s my issue with videos like this … we haven’t seen it. Nobody has. Not even Kevin feige. Because it’s not done yet. I think she judge things on their merit. But they haven’t even rolled cameras yet and RDJ coming back as iron man yes is like Jordan coming back or whatever they want to say but he’s a great actor. So we have no idea what he’s gonna do
I do get where you are coming from at 16:40 , but the starting of the Phase 4 was all about taking creative choices, and setting up new stuff. But that didn't work. (So you can't say here that Marvel didn't try.) It's just sad that the audience didn't react to that... but the nostalgia. Eternals is sooooo beautiful, but people want to watch Tobey and Andrew with Tom in No Way Home. Shang-Chi is so explosive and full of energy, The Marvels even with a weak plot had amazing fight scenes and character interactions. But general audience wants Hugh Jackman's Wolverine and Deadpool to star together in a movie. Honestly, it doesn't help that Disney blew up a budget of approx 300+ million on each of the "new" movies only to generate a loss. And now they see that nostalgia sells, so they will milk it until is stops paying.
In my opinion I think you are looking at it like it is Iron Man who became Dr Doom but that’s just not how it works. Also a big part of Dr Doom’s character is that he doesn’t show his face. Also the Russo’s in Marvel have made some of the best movies we’ve gotten from the MCU
They’d have to keep RDJ in the mask the whole time and find out how to have his character communicate thoroughly and believably so that we forget it’s him.
No, because as far as I know, Spidey never became Thanos in the comics. However, there IS a comic called Demon in an Armor where Victor von Doom swaps bodies with Tony Stark and uses Stark resources to become a sort of authoritarian version of Iron Man.
Tony already overshadowed a good 60% of MCU Spider-Man’s backstory by being his uncle Ben and being the origin of some of his villains. Vulture and mysterio have more beef with Tony Stark than spider-man himself. All of no way homes villains were hand me downs from other spidermen. Now Tony’s back to do the same with fantastic four. I need RDJ to play MCU Wolverine now.
I don't think Tony is back. Well, his body may be, but it's not his character. They introduced him as Victor von Doom. I think they're adapting the Demon in an Armor comic.
Kind of, yeah. Check out the Demon in an Armor comic. It's a What If? universe where Tony is Victor's college roommate instead of Reed, and for Doom reasons, Victor swaps their minds and erases Tony's memory. Victor (in Tony's body) goes on to run Stark Universal (their version of Stark Industries) and become an authoritarian-ish version of Iron Man, while Tony gets his degree and becomes a heroic Doom. So it'd be RDJ's body, but the character is very much Victor von Doom.
Once these "critics" start talking for their imaginary audiences they lose most of their credibility. "What will the casuals think about this?" Bro you don't really know but you need to think you're talking for them to feel validated in your opinions 💀
@@EddiePGRPlayer420 he doesn’t realize that casuals don’t give a fuck about Dr doom and he wouldn’t hit for them without a build up , having RDJ as doom automatically makes the casual go “wtf is going on “
Doom CANNOT be overshadowed by Iron man. No matter how good the performance, there is going to be some level of disconnect with Doom and the audience. The fact that we lost Mads Mikkelsen for Doom is so tragic...
I personally think Cillian Murphy or Christian Bale should've been casted as DOCTOR DOOM. (Bale has said he'd come back as a different character if the script and director is good) But this decision is just desperate. Fuckin why?
What do YOU think of Robert Downey Jr. playing Doctor Doom?? Are you as frustrated by it as I am? Comment below!💥 Thanks again to Brilliant!🧠 Get a 30-day free trial + 20% off an annual subscription ➡ brilliant.org/FilmSpeak/
If Tom Cruise, the original choice to play Tony Stark had played Tony Stark, then I can understand Robert Downey Jr playing Doctor Doom. But Robert Downey Jr coming back to playing a major super villain, then that spits on the legacy of Iron Man.
Not really bothered by it. Mostly just curious. I'll wait to judge this decision whether is was a good or bad idea to cast RDJ as Doom after I see him play the character.
That depends on how they handle it. sure it might not be the most comic accurate and this reeks of nostalgia bait and desperation, but if the writing is good and they remain true to the core of the character then we're good. Remember, NWH showed us this kinda thing can work. It doesn't always have to be "Nostalgia bait=bad"
OK I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks it sucks
4:05 to skip ad
Imagine having Deadpool giving an entire speech on how stupid the multiverses are and then pull the most desperate move via the multiverse😅
I mean they were already doing that with other multiverse stuff
Yes and no, the joke is true, but the problem with the multiverse is how Marvel has not explained it well, it is not that complicated or something that the audience hates, haven't you seen that the recent highest-grossing movies of the MCU have had the theme of the multiverse?, or how spiderverse won awards.
The best thing would be this being part of the a set up to bring on the deadpool kills the marvel universe movie
@@DevilsShoesOnSon no, I've had my fill of Deadpool. No more jokes. Let's get back to things being serious.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp We've only had like three years of fun, chill dude there's plenty of edgy shit for you to watch.
If the script, direction and the plot of the movie is bad, then Robert Downey Jr came back for nothing.
A lot of money.
Well, let's run it down then.
For the direction, we have the Russos coming back. The directors of Winter Solider, Civil War, Infinity War and Endgame. 4 of the best MCU movies (or 3 because the last of which is suddenly bad apparently according to the internet)
The writer is Stephen mcfeely who worked on the 4 movies said above and the first avenger along with Dark World and Agent Carter.
I'd say it's in good hands.
Thats an if
@@spritvio639 Totally agree
@@spritvio639damn bro really hope the cheque clears
Yeah it struck me too that they’re talking about two new Avengers movies and I’ve no idea who’s in the Avengers. Not a good sign.
Well, you've got Batman, Zorro, Kevin bacon, and Howard the Duck
@DavidMartinez-ce3lp wait, isn't Shrek in it, too?
@@Chackravartin ah yes, Shrek without the accent
I think they've got it in their head that Avengers movies are for big franchise changing events. An Avengers movie or two a few years before these two movies would've been the way to go, people get introduced to the new Avengers team and you get a feel for their dynamics before the big event that is supposed to encapsulate your whole franchise up to that point.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Don't forget, we also have Waluigi, Big Wheel, Squirrel Girl, Ryan Reynolds' Green Lantern, One Punch Man, King Kong, Nemo, Snow White, King Shark with his fake mustache, Madame Web, Morbius, Donkey with Shrek's accent, a Minion, a slap-ready Will Smith, and Cosmo the Spacedog
Can’t wait for Chris Evans to come back as Mephisto! 🥴
Maybe he'll play Mephisto AND Magneto and we'll get RDJ back AGAIN, again as Apocalypse!!!
🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@FilmSpeak i think The Rock is heading up for the apocalypse part😂
The Rock should play The Wrecker
cause he wrecked the DCEU...now he's heading to Marvel to destroy that
@@blackdynamite_5470 We already had Nick Gomez as Wrecker in She-Hulk.
I bet
I fucking BET
They'll deliver a line like "Wait... your name isn't ACTUALLY Dr. Doom, is it?"
Ugh
Thats the most MCU line I've ever heard. Even if they don't say it I accept this as reality.
@@pancakes8670 This. I've H-A-T-E-D MCU humor since the beginning, its like a poison that destroys every scene and its almost like they're embarrassed to be making comic book/super hero adaptations.
That is like Casting Harrison Ford to play count Douku in the Prequels!
Don't give them ideas
Come on, be real. They'll cast a woman to play Douku
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp a black one to be sure
@@adamcade604 indeed
@@adamcade604what are you yapping about
Don't get me wrong-Robert Downey Jr. is very talented. How so many skillful unknowns could play Doctor Doom and now won't get that chance kills me.
I thought RDJ had moved on after Endgane to other projects
@@joesdiner7320my guess is they offered him a hell of a lot of money to change his mind and return.
@@alvybar2990Yeah, he is apparently getting paid 80 million for the role. Basically the budget of an entire movie as his salary.
@@amastodont9680 man's got Walter White paying his salary it seems 💀
Cillian Murphy is the vest choice out there and everyone wants Cillian to be Doom and they chose RDJ.
If they chose someone who is well known or A - lister they could choose Cillian, his acting ability also vast.
"So this is how creativity dies, with thunderous applause."
No joke, I almost put a line like that in the script hahaha
💯💯💯💯
You should have just said it bro, cause it is true
I ain't gon support this movie, not gonna buy any tickets to see it.
Marvel should have cast Cillian Murphy
@@blackdynamite_5470
I was about to say how he should have put that line in the script. Missed opportunity.
So copying pasting a comic word for word is creative 😂. If they did that thanos would be a simp
RDJ is a great actor, but, no one in my nerdy circles were asking for this cast. The main reason why I feel this is a desperate move 🤷🏾♂️
He’s not really that great
Why have the best Villian ruler of latveria sorcerer badass when you can have him as a stark variant smh
No one wants this to happen
RDJ will not do Doom justice
@prestonjr2099
It is desperate. These idiots don't what they're doing. So they pull this crap thinking it'll work.
It will either be absolute crap or amazing nothing in the middle,
I used to laugh at people who said "Oh, Marvel is on its deathbed, it’s in need of a full reboot" but after this news I’m open to the idea of doing a full reboot after secret wars. Like, take a 5-10 year hiatus and the create a new MCU. Plus, now that they have access to all those characters have it be a world where the avengers and x men coexist with each other.
Agreed, but Disney is too greedy to do something like this.
So, now you see where those people are coming from.
They should have stuck by their balls with Kang. That story was going somewhere.
I'm quite certain the Multiverse Saga will end with some sort of reboot. Things are a mess right now.
I feel like that’s the general plan (the reboot) and that’s why certain things don’t bother me cause at the end of the day marvel is just gonna reboot it entirely and have it go in a different direction. In my opinion I feel like superhero movies aren’t gonna die anything soon but I feel like they’re gonna dial down extremely, similar to spy movies, there was a certain point where spy movies was just coming out ridiculously
They literally should’ve gotten Cillian Murphy to play Victor Von Doom. I’ll bet what happened was they asked for the guy from Oppenheimer and instead they got RDJ.
yeah bc marvel didn’t know that they’re golden child was also in oppenheimer where he won an oscar 😂
Agreed. Cillian would have been a really great choice.
And the crowd reaction would be even better if not the same.
Or mads milkellsen
Cillian wouldn’t touch this mess
Imagine if Chris Evans as the Human Torch fought Robert Downey Jr.'s Doctor Doom. This would feel like Captain America vs Iron Man all over again. 😅
Wait Chris Evan’s is playing human torch 😮
@@t.n.h.ptheneohumanpatterna8334 have u ever watched the 2005 fantastic four?
he played human torch in the fantastic four movies years ago and he reprised his role in Deadpool and Wolverine
I think that’s part of the plan.
Multiversal civil war 😂😂
I don't trust the Russo's after Endgame. They couldn't even figure out what to do with Hulk, and now they're trusting them with the multiverse. Heck, they didn't even let Thor finish his arc from the previous films.
They even killed Black Widow and made a canon-event that we can't bring her back...ever
Hulk had the most anticlimactic resolution to a story arc I've ever seen.
@@blackdynamite_5470I’m still not over that death. She was my favorite character.
@@blackdynamite_5470 yeah, I’m just glad they’d never do Harley Quinn or poison ivy like that. Could be worse
Exactly! the Russos coming back does not make me hopeful at all, I'm disliking Endgame more and more as time goes on
I just hope that Marvel doesn't mess this up because it seems like their most desperate move yet.
Oh,they'll find a way to mess it up.Cuz it's Marvel.
Yeah there's definite desperation but RDJ's such a solid actor that it might be great in spite of the desperation
We got Doctor Doom as a 70 year old geriatric RDJ instead of Cillian Murphy
@@marktheshark7588 make no sense marvel still the best superhero franchise even in there lowe
@@blackdynamite_5470 go cry about it 💀. Marvel have good rep for 12 straight years so there some flukes in pile of good shit.
What the MCU is doing is called "Jumping the Stark." On a gut level it just feels stupid AF. And oh yeah, where the hell is Shang-Chi 2? That was at least a successful introduction of a cool character to be part of the new core Avengers, then they completely dropped the ball.
2021 Phase 4 gave me so much hope. Black Widow, No Way Home and Shang Chi were all solid movies while WandaVision, Falcon&WS, Hawkeye and Loki were all besides some wonky writing pretty good shows.
What I didn't realize was that the mediocre, unnecessary entry The Eternals was a preview of the 2022 shitshow to come.
Multiverse of Madness, Love and Thunder and Wakanda Forever were minus a couple good moments so messy and filled with bad writing that I stopped paying attention in all of them. Then the She Hulk and Secret Invasion trainwrecks....that I watched about 20 minutes of before turning off..
@@hiphipjorge5755I'm gonna be completely honest, Wakanda Forever had more heart and more of an actual authorial stamp on it than most of Phase 4 aside from maaaaaybe NWH, GOTG 3, and Loki. I would've counted WandaVision but it just devolved into more CGI and SHIELD schlock.
"Jump the stark" is brilliant actually.
@@hiphipjorge5755 i just skipped The Marvels, she hulk and Thor 4 entirely
It’s all pathetic writing, it’s been like that since Infinity War, Thanos is not even close to the Mad Titan we see in the comics and now we are gonna have a black Captain America, a virgin pathetic Hulk and who knows about the rest of the Avengers.
PS: nobody gives a damn about Shang-Chi.
the thing with hugh jackman and ryan reynolds is there was untapped potential begging to be told. they had amazing chemistry in a bad movie and we just wanted them together properly. no one asked RDJ to return esp as dr doom. no one said “he was a cool tony stark but would be better as VVD”
i think this “subverting expectations” thing is going wayyyyy too far. i need things to be 70%predictable with 30% intrigue/chaos/randomness. we’re in the “try hard to impress” aka “jj abrams mystery box” era of film making and its meh
Even so, I'd argue the only instance where the nostalgia cameos actively felt like they were done with a purpose was in NWH, and even then it's still an intensely cynical cashgrab as well as a needlessly complicated route to try and bring Holland's Peter back to square one.
Jackman coming back just to wear the fucking suit that didn't even end up looking that great after Logan was meant to be his arguable swan song was always fucking stupid.
@@andytrevino4077 oh fosho and while i mostly enjoyed andrew garfield getting a “follow up/conclusion” to his story, its riddled with plot holes or down right destroys those other movies.
im actually completely over the multiverse including self contained good content and leeching them for temporary cool points
@@enishi4ty5X men Origins was not a bad movie. Though, it wasn't perfect.
@@andytrevino4077 He looked great in that suit. Especially when he put his mask on.
@@SeanWheeler100 The needlessly exaggerated animated white eyes detracted from the entire thing, especially since half of Jackman's face was still visible, missing why it worked for Deadpool himself in the first place.
I think it’ll work if they never acknowledge that’s it’s RDJ. Doom always wears his mask, so keep it that way. Make Doom a compelling character. It can still work imo
Yeah sure Disney just give away 80 MILLIONS DOLLARS to RDJ for him not to show his face 😂
@@LeMecQuiestCoollook at Mando S3, Pedro never took off the helmet.
They could use his face as a reveal In-universe. Have him fight the Avengers, is getting his butt kicked, Spidey comes in for a blow, knocks his helmet off and Doom gets the upper hand and escapes in the confusion.
MCU loves unmasking characters every second they’ll do the same with Doom plus they are paying RDJ like 80mil
@kymerahYT
Pedro didn't previously play a major Star Wars character.
Pedro's face wasnt plastered all over the promotional materials
Pedro wasnt paid 80 million dollars
Pedro didn't demand a private jet
Pedro didn't demand special directors
We all know RDJ will not wear the Dr.Doom mask more than 5 minutes
These movies will flop so hard.
It will also work if they just adapt Demon in an Armor.
Variety has reported twice that he's not a Stark variant, just straight up Doom with RDJ's face the same way Chris Evans and Mahershala Ali have played multiple characters for Marvel.
...and you trust Variety 😒
Since he’s played by the face of the MCU for a decade plus….that makes whoever he plays a Tony Stark variant. Period.
@@namehereandthere But then by that Logic The human torch is a captain America variant because he's played by Chris Evans
Or not quite the same way; I'd wager anything he's Victor from the "Demon in an Armor" storyline, i.e. Victor in Tony's body.
@@JaredHerron-vj6rf the difference here is that Chris Evans as the human torch in the Deadpool movie was a gag. Nobody took it too seriously. That version of him is from an entirely different IP. Here we are talking about a HUGE ip and the same one which is the MCU. People will just see another Tony stark, specially because he will have a major role. If he won't be a Tony variant, then why bother casting RDJ? That's the point, it should have been someone else.
marvels most iconic & best villain, one of the most interesting villains in media, the most hyped villain to appear in the mcu. Reduced to a tony stark variant. And yes, I bet my life it will be a variant, they wouldn't bring RDJ back if it wasnt a variant
Bringing back RDJ was literally a meme before this got revealed, nobody thought marvel was actually that stupid
We don't know that he'll be tony stark variant. He's playing "victor von doom". So many assumptions.
@@TheWerttyFiles why would they cast rdj if it wasnt a stark variant
@@enragedbear I don't know for sure, but it could simply be because he has experience with a similar good character and could do a good character foil of Iron Man as Doom. Ik Doom is different from Iron Man, but they do have shared comic runs where this antithetical character foil relationship is explored a bit. Idk, to me this isn't a bad choice until I see a bad product with it, but im equally able to see how this could be done well if they play their cards right.
@@TheWerttyFiles I appreciate your open mindedness about the topic, and I will wait to see the movie itself before passing judgement. That being said, I hope to God Doom isn't played with the stereotypical theatricality and snark of Downey. While Doom is grandiose he's also very methodical and has a subtle intensity and madness to him like Phillip Seymour Hoffman in The Master. I know RDJ is a good actor and I'm hoping he can prove me wrong, but Doom seems to be the antithesis of the roles RDJ excels in. I just pray he acts him in a way that does service to how terrifying he truly is
Well...Fast and Furious going to space was a meme...until they actually did it
He careful what you wish for 😈
I’ve seen this clip 0:50 several times and still don’t understand the crowd’s excitement
💯
They see RDJ and they don’t think about what this means for the MCU.
@@xXSCDTXx Yeah it's an off the cuff reaction before they have time to thing "wait a moment"
The only way I can see RDJ working as Doom is if he never takes his mask off.
He's getting more than 80 million, there's just no way this is just a voice acting job lol, he'll take his mask off every 5 seconds in both movies. They'll market the fuck out of this man.
@@nikahaziny How did you come away from my comment thinking I implied RDJ would be doing a voice acting job?
@@xx_v_xx4373High paying actors always want to promote their image. High paying actors intentionally avoid having their faces covered a lot because they like to promote their image.
RDJ is a high paying actor and he couldn’t even keep the Doom mask on in his reveal at comic con lol
@xx_v_xx4373 if you never see his face it's basically voice acting right? The point is, they won't keep the mask on.
I was thinking his face could be damaged and disfigured
the problem starts at the title "Avengers: Doomsday" - Doom is not a character that can first appear as just a villain for the avengers. he can't be a subtitle.
his first appearance has to be just "Doom".
Well, of course he has to be a subtitle, the money people want the name recognition for the people who have no clue who that character is but know or have seen avengers.lazy and transparent of course.
@@mhouston2968 and that very much suggests they will treat Doom as a villain of the week like they did with Ultron
non-fans: _oh look, an Avengers movie_
fans: _oh look, it's a Dr.Doom movie_
"New mask, same task"...playing Tony Stark and making Marvel money
I always looked at the Kang fallout as kind of a blessing in disguise (obviously horrible circumstances) but the recent movies/shows weren’t big hits so having to reset the saga with a different villain gave marvel a chance to take a step back reset some things that don’t work and make things more cohesive. They’re doing to the DCEU mistake of releasing justice league 4 years too soon
They really grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory with this one.
Kang had so much potential. Doom should have been introduced AFTER the multiverse saga while letting Kang have his moment of glory.
Feige thinks he's so clever. It's no coincidence that they timed this bombshell to coincide with the release of Deadpool and Wolverine.
Secret Wars is gonna be fanservice incarnate. Disney is banking on Robert Downey Jr, Hugh Jackman and Tobey Maguire meeting up with each other to get bums in seats.
Ah! But it's not the same Logan who died in the 2017 movie. It's not Iron Man. Ergo, their respective deaths weren’t undone!
The sad part is before the Fox acquisition we would have gotten a comic accurate Doom origin film. Even if it was terrible it still would have been a far more respectable effort than this crap.
I remember in 2016 or 2017 fox announced a doom movie and ooh boy was I excited but that disney fox merger happened so we all know what happened next
Oh come on, don't act like Fox hasn't shitted on Dooms legacy twice already before the buyout. But I do not trust Disney past 2019
@oreo_frito the one from the 2000s Fantastic Four wasnt bad. Only problem was making him share the same origin as Dr. Doom. Also, past 2019? Endgame sucked. Infinity War was the true ending.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Endgame sucked? Lol ok sure
@@kaankaraca2001 Yeah, it was a poorly written and lazy mess.
I for one am frustrated with T he constant updates on Kang Dynasty/Doomsday and Secret Wars while seeing the declining quality of the most recent MCU projects. Marvel right now shouldn’t be focusing on their next far-off Endgame-level event, and instead be putting all their effort into making their regular releases now the best they can be.
Yep. Even build up to the next Avenger level events like teasing infinity stones in certain movies and Thanos in clips before he took center stage in Infinity War. They shouldn't do it hardcore just like Quantumania did.
As good as Phase 3 was, I also feel that phase was what took Marvel on the route they are now in where they don't realize what made the previous saga so good but they think people will go for anything even if it's only hardcore build up when it's really stupid. Now they are way too desperate.
@@mikeythewarriormtw5140Phase 3 was the start of this train crash
@@Dave102693it was solid at first focusing on what happened post snap and how it affected people and how people were handling the events of endgame like Peter with Tony’s death then it got crazy out of nowhere
Imagine how Cillian Murphy would have perfected the role :(
No. He's too feminine with all of the plastic surgery (fillers and botox) to play Dr. Doom.
We can only imagine how it would be to see him on the screen
It would have been so perfect
We tried to do that with John Krasinski
Marvel hates when fans cast someone...They did Krasinski dirty on Dr.Strange: Multiverse of Madness
What if it was avengers doomsday was a setup for Cillian's doctor doom in secret wars...
No. Dr doom’s nationality is important to his backstory
@@maqpi8335 you really think such a fantastic actor would participate in the grotesque downfall of marvel? 😂
Marvel is basically the cw
Downey as Doom is a What If… episode that you do when you’ve finished Doom’s actual villain arc.
This is like if the first Avengers movie had starred Chris Hemsworth as Thanos.
Marvel’s just thinking about the bottom line at this point. I was hyped as shit when I heard the casting announcement, and now I hate it.
Nerds: "Mandarin was a great twist ... The character was so racist."
Also nerds: "Where is Doom's gypsy magic ?!"
I think Willem Dafoe-the actor who played Green Goblin in the original spiderman and no way home would be a better Victor Von Doom.His voice and aura would much the role perfectly.
Secret Wars 2015 is THE Victor von Doom story, and in the film adaptation Victor von Doom won't even be in it. This like if for the Infinity Gauntlet storyline they decided that the villain should be an evil version of Thor instead of Thanos.
Which is why it’s still weird to have Doom be the big bad. We’ll have him for three movies including Secret Wars and we’re just gonna skip all of his development to escalate God Emperor Doom? It feels rushed to all hell.
@@xXSCDTXxthey fucked up Kang but like galactus or magneto or something should have went first
Still upset that they wasted Mads Mikkelsen on Dr. Strange. He would have been an amazing Dr. Doom.
Marvel has had one crazy week. 😆
Honestly, this is a very disappointing choice imo..
I love RDJ and all but, come on..
Dr. Doom is one of the best villains in the Marvel universe.
He was never represented well on screen, to say the least!
And now the MCU has a chance to redeem him, and finally give us a truly great villain.
But that would require effort.
Casting RDJ feels so desperate and lazy!
Why put in the effort writing a great character and looking for the perfect actor for the role, when they can simply manipulate our emotions with nostalgia by bringing back RDJ.
So instead of an interesting new villain, all we gonna get is.. "an evil Tony Stark variant".
That's just disrespectful to the character.
I'm one of the people that argue that bringing back Hugh Jackman was actually a great idea, for various reasons. But this is different. I think they went one step too far.. LAZY!
Just a correction, Collider reported that Marvel hadn’t announced if he’d be in the FF movie.
This depends on how they handle it. sure it might not be the most comic accurate and this reeks of nostalgia bait and desperation, but if the writing is good and they remain true to the core of the character then we're good.
Remember, NWH showed us this kinda thing can work in service of a larger narrative
Nwh wasn’t bad but in my opinion it was meh they just profited off of nostalgia and it worked that’s why it made so much
MCU fans like yourselves don’t want anything original or creative anymore. They just want hollow “love letters” to better movies and cheap fanservice as a substitute for good writing and storytelling and filmmaking. That’s why people like Feige see the success of stuff like NWH and Deadpool 3 and use it as a blueprint to jangle some more keys in front of a fanbase who will clap like seals at anything put in front of them as long as they recognize it.
These aren’t even real movies anymore.
NWH only worked because we wanted to see those actors back as those characters. As a movie it kinda fails beyond that moment of excitement anyways. This is just reusing the leading actor of a universe for a different role because they’re scared people have lost interest and they want a way to guarantee money. Big name actor=big money. Even if he plays the part fantastically, it’s just going to feel weird. It’ll ruin dooms character when he’s just a multiverse version that subconsciously we just see as evil iron man. He’s not supposed to be evil iron man.
@@bikramarora1819yes we can’t just allow them to keep doing this, Mark my words other movies will start doing this. We have to hold them accountable for having to rely on nostalgia to restore the feeling. I mean they sound just make an interesting new IP??? Is that too much to ask?
I’m somebody who loved NWH but I can still admit that film was messy in terms of its plot. It’s filled with contrivances and plot holes.
Imagine if Star Wars just decided to introduce a multiverse. It would suck. It sucks here too. It works in comics and cartoons. Not live action. At least not for a decade long "phase"
Well Star Wars has world between worlds so it's not far fetched they will do that
@@morenoskindevil6027 ugh
EEAAO.
Star Wars already has a multiverse and it doesn't suck at all.
Completely agree with everything you said. There honestly would’ve been less backlash if they’d just recasted Kang.
How do we know he is a Tony stark variant.
What else is he gonna be? Why else do they have RDJ in the role?
@@bikramarora1819it could be like Chris Evans as the human torch though. He looks like captain america in the MCU but in the fox universe he actually is Johnny storm not a steve rogers variant
@@bikramarora1819 because he is a good actor and marvel tried to make him doctor doom for the 2005 film, Kevin Feige and Jon Favreau talk about it in the 15 year anniversary of iron man video.
Y'all needs to pre-order your A:Doomsday tickets
Marvel gon do that ol' bait and switch with y'all
Oh you think RDJ is actually Doctor Doom...kazam nieguz...he's Tony Stark
@@blackdynamite_5470no
A decent fraction of whatever budget is now just gonna be spent on having him on screen. Most likely for like 5 mins of screentime
First you say, "If you wanna take massive liberties with a C-List villain, no one gives a F. Go for it."
But then immediately after, you use the exact same reasoning with why many fans have a problem with this:
"When you remove all the elements that make a character a character, it no longer becomes an adaptation of a character and just becomes a different character altogether."-
So this is the contradiction, and it isn't solved by saying... 'Well if it's someone people don't know, who cares?' Mandarin was only C-List because Iron Man was C-List. For decades. And look how a hit movie can elevate your profile. It wasn't too much to ask that Mandarin get the same treatment, and the modernized version presented in the trailers *was accepted* by fans as a cool and smart update. The twist on that was the mess, not the villain himself. He didn't have to be super popular, but he is Tony's primary nemesis, and the people who cared about Iron Man cared about that.
I harp on this because a consistent argument should be applied to Doctor Doom without being hypocritical.
That’s not a contradiction
This is giving off the same energy as bringing back classic sonic in sonic forces.
It should've been Shadow. But at least we have Sonic X Shadow Generations now.
Bro had the best end and decided to screw everything by returning to play another character that doesn't even fit him, what a joke.
Why does this guy sound like he's on the verge of crying
People keep saying Disney and Marvel are desperate. Which I guess they are a little bit, but this was partially RDJs idea. Not Doom, but he’s been saying for a year now he’s been wanting to come back to the mcu
Yeah but as the main lead villain for the next batch of Avenger movies?
I am less interested in seeing Doom now. The Russo’s can’t say there was only one man who could play him when Mads Mikkelsen literally exists
I mean, I understand it if you feel like Mikkelsen would fit the role better, but he has literally the exact same problem RDJ does: he's already in the MCU.
So if we go by the logic that bringing back RDJ is bad because he already has ties to the MCU, then that would also apply to Mikkelsen
@@robertmarginean164 to a much, much, much lesser extent and impact. Only 1 of the current characters could even reconize Mads (Strange) whereas everyone would know Tony
RDJ played Tony Stark for 11 years...and now you want to convince me that he's Doctor Doom!???..fuck off mate😒
you say that yet you are going to be one of the first people in the theater with your popcorn ready to watch💀
If they're adapting Demon in an Armor, then yeah, RDJ is literally the only man who could play Victor in that story.
Doom is a villain *built* by character progression… AS a villain.
The MCU is darned near allergic to *villain progression as villains* to the point they almost killed Mordo off in MoM… Urgh.
someone new should've been able to build a legacy playing Dr.Doom isn't of someone who already has one in the MCU
I think the biggest issue is who even is the leader of the Avengers right now? I don't think any fan can decide which character that is with confidence right now. Like during the Infinity Saga, yes anyone could say the Avengers leader was Ironman and Captain America. But right now, I don't know which superhero is supposed to be the new leader now. And I doubt anyone else knows
I kinda hope with the new captain america movie we get some kind of confirmation because right now we only know the villain and that’s more worrisome then knowing the heroes
I just think that we have to remember that a very small percentage of the audience actually reads the comics. Whether people like it or not this will make money and if it’s good, will make all the money. Just wait to pass judgement until we see the movie.
Please stop. If they can't sell me the movie properly, why would I waste my time and money to watch it? Why give them a chance when they haven't peaked my interest? What's the point?
Dont watch it then dawg, aint that deep@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp
I'm not buying any tickets anymore
Except for Spider-Man 5...Tom Holland can get as woke as he wants...I hope Spider-Man 4 is good
@@blackdynamite_5470Stop crying
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp bruh, you've written like 10 comments saying the same shit, stfu.
No regular normal human being knows Doom all that well, I’d honestly put him on the same level as Ironman pre-MCU.
So his mainstream appeal isn’t affected much at all.
"Dr.Doom was able to build this in a cave, with a box of Latverian magic"
I know Spiderman villains more than I know about this guy, but that's because I'm not really that much of a Marvel guy in the first place.
The Mandarin twist in iron man 3... I didn't understand the backlash then, because the twist was genuinely good imo in terms of it's service to the story being told... The continued backlash to that twist downright annoys me now since Marvel has actually given us a true Mandarin, so fans can have their cake and eat it too... but the Dr doom casting.. I get it... I've gotten more annoyed by it each passing day...
The Mandarin is Iron Man’s archenemy it is retarted that they say he is “not real”.
Marvel just wants to big characters because they feel every movie of theirs is a hit ( not a hit = audience's fault ) without spending time building up the character through his/her story
A friend of mine did have a pretty cool idea for Secret Wars or Doomsday.
Do the "Let's do a headcount." Iron Man and Loki exchange from the first Avengers, but have it be between Loki and Doom. Then it ends with Loki saying the line, "If we can't protect the universe, you can be damn well sure we'll avenge it"
Pretty sure Tom Hiddleston is done woth Marvel
"...the same thing might happen to the MCU in phase 6"
My reaction: Wait...there was a phase 5???
They gave him a fukk-ton of money
They surely did 😃
Why does everyone keep saying he's just an evil Tony Stark who became Doctor Doom, when at Comic Con, Joe Russo outright says he's literally playing Victor Von Doom!? It'll just be Victor from an alternate universe, probably from the same as the Fantastic Four, and he'll look like Downey, just because of the multiverse and Marvel's desire to cash in on nostalgia. And his entire connection with the Avengers will be at the level of someone recognizing him as Stark, and Strange will probably say that it is not him, because this is a multiverse and everything is possible here. I still don't know how to feel about this, but it would be much worse if he was brought back as a notional Superior Iron Man. Because I can already see this scene where this Stark tells how he failed his world and became bad, and Parker from MCU tells him that he still can be a hero because his Tony saved the universe. And this convinces him to become good again. It's just boring, lazy and we've already seen them do something similar with Logan in D&W. I know Logan wasn't evil, but I think you get the point. But they won't be able to do that with Doctor Doom, because he's literally a different person! Because he is not Tony Stark and never was! But in general, I'm more concerned that Doctor Doom is just a replacement for Kang. He should have been there since the beginning of Phase Four and be in at least one Fantastic Four movie. At the same time, appearing in other projects, promoting himself as a future bad-ass large-scale antagonist. He needs to be bigger than Thanos and actually interact and fight with the other characters, especially F4, before becoming everyone's enemy!
I think it's more likely they're adapting Demon in an Armor: a "What If?" universe's Victor von Doom who swapped bodies with Tony. So it's Tony's body, but it's not Tony.
Absolutely agree. I dont know why so many love this decision. This is just showing that the studio is running out of options to draw an audience because even they know they cant introduce an origin story properly, leading upto a big fight without using recognisable characters/actors.
then you go act
I hated what they did with the Mandarin.....
Dumb and desperate of Disney yes, but also kind of egotistical of RDJ. Was retirement from the MCU that boring that he's got to undermine the closure that came with his exit?
10:28 pretty much sum up why the mcu used em for this role...
i'm legit disappointed in RDJ for making this choice.
I agree .... bringing back RDJr .... is a bad idea .
I wasn’t paying attention to Comic Con when the news broke.
I got an email notification from THR that got cut off.
It said “Robert Downey Jr. To Return As Doctor Do…”
And my initial thought was, ‘Oh God, they’re making a Dolittle sequel?’
Deadpool and Wolverine is a love letter to old Marvel tbh, even though I didn’t like most of the other movies I loved it because you could tell the people involved actually cared about the move
I am a comic book illustrator and have worked for the studios in LA as well. I have been reading the books since 1975. This Is not a quick clever plot for sales. It will appear that way to the uninformed and that’s ok. But, we need to adjust and get some history behind this story. It’s been done more than once in the comic book industry. The story exists already in the Marvel comics. Dr Doom also connects the Sub Mariner, Magneto, The Fantastic Four, and of course the Avengers. Most of these movies are an amalgamation of many stories over decades even generations. Please take the time to check out the old stories and books and it won’t seem so crazy or like a cash grab. Gotta get back to work and I hope all of you continue to enjoy the movies and hopefully the comics. Wishing you all well.
Also, you’ve hit the nail with my issues with rdj as Dr. Doom. But I wanted to address the MCU Spiderman relation to RDJ’s Dr. Doom. What a way to spit on what no way home did. Let’s have an entire movie that steps him out of the shadow and finally do some traditional Spiderman stories. Only to drag him back to square one. Like, no, I’m not clapping like a seal to that. It’s just a terrible idea. Can we get some traditional stories from the comics? What made No Way Home and Wolverine Deadpool somewhat impactful is that it felt like we were closing that chapter on both the Sony and Fox universes. The end credits of Deadpool Scream Fox had its time in the sun. Now let’s look to the horizon and welcome a new era of these characters with different actors. But we couldn’t have that impact for two days without doing a nostalgia bait cash grab.
"The only people you'll have left is the hardcore people who will watch anything you put out and be HAPPY with it"
Wtf?? You got that backwards. Its the casual audience that watches anything and is happy with it.
Harcore fans are disappointed with marvel right now.
This shows how desperate and cynical Feige is. I'm shocked by how bad this decision is...
We all are shocked
“I bet you’d probably say in one universe, I saved the world.. And in another, I sacrificed myself, to save the world.. This time I think I’ll save myself…”
My impression of the opening monologue by RDJ for this movie or the first trailer lol smh
Let's face it, it's time for the MCU to die anyway.
It's not cinema, it's not theme parks, it's professional wrestling with a few extra steps, this is the epic return of RDJ to the ring
This is not meant to be enjoyed past the years these movies come out. What are your children gonna do, bingewatch 40 movies to see the 41th one in theaters?
You really are about to make the exact same mistake you made with Deadpool and Wolverine for the past 2 years with this. Self-awareness is well and truly dead here. Can't wait for the video titled "Avengers: Doomsday is ACTUALLY GOOD?!" in 3 years.
Film itself being good doesn't make the decision good
@TheShadowTitan that is literally the definition of a good decision
Here’s my issue with videos like this … we haven’t seen it. Nobody has. Not even Kevin feige. Because it’s not done yet. I think she judge things on their merit. But they haven’t even rolled cameras yet and RDJ coming back as iron man yes is like Jordan coming back or whatever they want to say but he’s a great actor. So we have no idea what he’s gonna do
Cillian Murphy should’ve played Dr. Doom
People considered one week with ultron and civil spar as decent films they literally blew their load on two phase worthy arcs in one movie.
Ain’t it weird they use the doomsday name like doomsday from the dc universe
Agreed.But typical of Marvel to copy from DC.
I would have preferred them not telling us who was gonna play doom
I do get where you are coming from at 16:40 , but the starting of the Phase 4 was all about taking creative choices, and setting up new stuff. But that didn't work. (So you can't say here that Marvel didn't try.)
It's just sad that the audience didn't react to that... but the nostalgia. Eternals is sooooo beautiful, but people want to watch Tobey and Andrew with Tom in No Way Home.
Shang-Chi is so explosive and full of energy, The Marvels even with a weak plot had amazing fight scenes and character interactions. But general audience wants Hugh Jackman's Wolverine and Deadpool to star together in a movie.
Honestly, it doesn't help that Disney blew up a budget of approx 300+ million on each of the "new" movies only to generate a loss. And now they see that nostalgia sells, so they will milk it until is stops paying.
Eternals is not beautiful it was boring as hell. It shouldve been a mini series instead
Shang-Chi was absolute crap all that was missing was the usual Disney song and dance routine.
In my opinion I think you are looking at it like it is Iron Man who became Dr Doom but that’s just not how it works. Also a big part of Dr Doom’s character is that he doesn’t show his face. Also the Russo’s in Marvel have made some of the best movies we’ve gotten from the MCU
How much you wanna bet about MCU showing RDJ face?
I got $50 that they will keep showing his face an average of every 8 minutes the movie
@@blackdynamite_5470 I don’t think they would disrespect the material that bad especially since they’re trying to do better
I think they *will* show his face, and I think that's actually important to the plot. Because I think they're adapting the Demon in an Armor story.
1:57 NOT A VARIANT
Yes it is
@@jblegend5272 RDJ is an Actor Playing Victor Von Doom, not an Actor Playing Tony Stark, Have you not watched Deadpool and Wolverine
They’d have to keep RDJ in the mask the whole time and find out how to have his character communicate thoroughly and believably so that we forget it’s him.
They won't give him a mask at all
It's like if Tobey Macguire played Thanos...like what?
"You want forgiveness? Get religion." *snaps*
The Avengers: "Trillions of people will lose their lives to achieve your goal!"
Thanos Maguire: "I missed the part where that's my problem."
@@FilmSpeak 😂😂
No, because as far as I know, Spidey never became Thanos in the comics. However, there IS a comic called Demon in an Armor where Victor von Doom swaps bodies with Tony Stark and uses Stark resources to become a sort of authoritarian version of Iron Man.
Tony already overshadowed a good 60% of MCU Spider-Man’s backstory by being his uncle Ben and being the origin of some of his villains. Vulture and mysterio have more beef with Tony Stark than spider-man himself. All of no way homes villains were hand me downs from other spidermen.
Now Tony’s back to do the same with fantastic four. I need RDJ to play MCU Wolverine now.
I don't think Tony is back. Well, his body may be, but it's not his character. They introduced him as Victor von Doom. I think they're adapting the Demon in an Armor comic.
I…..have no words. How is this supposed to make sense? Is this an alternate tony stark that became doctor doom instead of iron man?
Sssshhhh, you're not supposed to think
Just worship RDJ and pre-order movie tickets
Kind of, yeah. Check out the Demon in an Armor comic. It's a What If? universe where Tony is Victor's college roommate instead of Reed, and for Doom reasons, Victor swaps their minds and erases Tony's memory. Victor (in Tony's body) goes on to run Stark Universal (their version of Stark Industries) and become an authoritarian-ish version of Iron Man, while Tony gets his degree and becomes a heroic Doom.
So it'd be RDJ's body, but the character is very much Victor von Doom.
His big reveal at comicon was weird, he came out and did the Tony Stark pose with the Tony Stark glasses.
This is the worst idea ever
Marvel is losing its appeal he says , yet these will be the highest grossing movies of all time lol
Once these "critics" start talking for their imaginary audiences they lose most of their credibility.
"What will the casuals think about this?" Bro you don't really know but you need to think you're talking for them to feel validated in your opinions 💀
@@EddiePGRPlayer420 he doesn’t realize that casuals don’t give a fuck about Dr doom and he wouldn’t hit for them without a build up , having RDJ as doom automatically makes the casual go “wtf is going on “
Doom CANNOT be overshadowed by Iron man. No matter how good the performance, there is going to be some level of disconnect with Doom and the audience. The fact that we lost Mads Mikkelsen for Doom is so tragic...
I personally think Cillian Murphy or Christian Bale should've been casted as DOCTOR DOOM.
(Bale has said he'd come back as a different character if the script and director is good)
But this decision is just desperate.
Fuckin why?
Marvel, script good...after Endgame? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Even A:Endgame was terrible
Infinity War as the last good Marvel movie
@@blackdynamite_5470endgame was bad but there have been good movies and shows since D&W being most recent
@@THEK1NGSCLAN and guardians 3
Did you hate the Demon in an Armor storyline in the comics, too?
Life long comic reader here. Recently turned 36, been collecting/reading since I was 4. I'm absolutely fine with RDJ playing a Doom variant.
The equivalent of hiring Ryan Gosling for Black Panther
Nah, that would just be comic accurate casting
Emily Blunt should play Shuri
There it is guys. On MCU's forehead it spells D E S P E R A T I O N
It all depends on how they do it.
I came from the future
The movie sucks dirty ass
No
@@Lance-ro5ti ???
Really annoyed that the commnets keep bringing up Cillian Murphy as if you didn't mention Doom's Romani heritage
Who are our main protagonists these days?
Maybe the real protagonists were the friends we made along the way
Deadpool straight up saying “marvel and the multiverse is a low point.” Only for them to double down 😂😂
George lopez is playing Mr fantastic
And Martha Stewart as Susan Storm😂