Timestamps in the description as well. The Patrons Ask GN episode is now live: www.patreon.com/posts/35658549 -- thanks to all our supporters for the help, especially during this time. You can submit questions for the next episode via the YT comments or via Discord (for Patreon backers). Watch TiN explain to us his e-power video cards: ruclips.net/video/ewkVNoMbcCc/видео.html Find Joe here: ruclips.net/channel/UCHcGSnu7Izq231nAS5zFmsw
To transplant a GPU, you don't need to do the procedure with tweezers and heat gun to restore the solder balls. What you need is: - laser cut stainless steel BGA template - equally sized solder balls (you can buy them in different sizes) - solder wick to remove old solder - heat gun - IR heated plate -- this is so the board won't deform The process is called BGA reballing. This will have much higher chance of success than doing it manually. Also it doesn't take that long.
Following the side intake fan question, how about GPU exhaust fan? I have an 80mm fan strapped to PCI cutouts under the GPU and it improved the thermals noticeably, in theory because it sucks air under the GPU. But I have an old crappy case and I would like to see how it performs on broader variety of cases. And BTW it's way easier not to do holes in the glass, but instead make a notch for a small metal mesh piece on the side of the glass panel.
Regarding side intake fans, I wouldn’t have an air cooled card without a fan there to get fresh air to it. I’ve modded cases to put one on a case that didn’t come with one. Worst case scenario, take the side cover completely off and cool the graphics card with an external fan lol I did that for years before I got into liquid cooling. I had multiple multi GPU setups of 2, 3, and 4 GPUs. I had three side intake, top blowing, pin wheel style air filters that moved a lot of air on high or moved moderate air on medium while remaining silent. My systems never got dusty lol and even with 3 graphics cards sandwiched together, temps remained decent. If you know anything about blower cards when you sandwich 3 together, the middle one ordinarily gets very hot compared to the other two. Although, to be fair, I did have two GTX 280s die on me once out of a 3 way SLI setup. But XFX replaced them for free, so who knows what happened there?
Yup i have a Fractal Design Define R5 with a side intake fan!! Easily lowers my GPU temps about 6-8C compared with no side intake. I also recently bought a thermal probe sensor which is supported on my Asus Maximus X Hero motherboard and stuck it to the back of my GPU. I use the thermal probe temp to control the side fan using the Fan control in the BIOS. Works amazing the side intake fan hits about 50% fan speed at 60C and will only hit 100% fan speed at 75C which pretty much never happens anyway.
did you also have the XFX 790 i mobo...I had that setup ...3 GTX 280's sucked a lot of juice....I took the grill plate off the backs of them, the bit that screws the cards to the chassis, those things were quite restrictive..certainly helped...
psycronizer actually I had an ASUS Striker II Extreme 790i, that was like the God of mother boards back then. Back when $300 was considered crazy for a mother board. It was such a great board. I had an EVGA 780i before that and the chipset used to get really hot, around 70c with 3 way SLI. That’s when I started liquid cooling, hence the Striker II, it had a water block to cool the chipset. Although, after I upgraded, I removed my cooling system and added this funny little fan I made. It was a tiny 40mm fan blowing through a little funnel and a tube so I could get air through the water block lol, surprisingly it worked well enough to keep temps in check, but I wasn’t running 3 way SLI anymore at that point, I was running 4 way Crossfire with HD 5970s on my next system. Actually what’s great about that system? I sold that ASUS board years later for $350 and the Q9650 that was good for 4.05 GHz at 1.325v on air for $300.
I have a inwin 101c with air cooling intake at back, 2 intakes at bottom yeeting air at the gpu and 2 side exhausts near the front. Gpu and CPU temps are good because they both get fresh air
@@Shadowdane I have the now retired Fractal Arc Midi. I have a slim 180mm Silverstone fan mounted on the side as an exhaust which seems unorthodox but I have crossfired GPU's so helps my CPU. I see the R5 is still listed on Fractals site so still an option.
The GPU can be done, I am a Rework engineer who worked to install and do research on the first BGA machine. It is NOT for the average hobbyist. It takes a stereo microscope a set of hot micro tweezers a ton of patience and a bunch of time. In the defense and aerospace industry I have done them to increase memory capacity of obsolete systems on the B-52 avionics, I did it in the early 2000s to update the encoder boards in the Hubble telescope (It was cool because I built the originals at Sperry univac when I first started out) I also did them to update the U2 for NASA as part of a avionics update to allow it to operate on civilian networks. BGA processors are not easy but it can be done as a once in a lifetime experience. Btw, if you overheat the board, its toast forever.
I used to own an Aerocool VX-E pro as my first case. AMD Phenom II X6-1090T BE, HD 6870, 4GB ram. Man, that thing had one hell of a side intake. One hell of a front one too!
BTW, don't try to drill through tempered glass, because in the tempering process the glass gets a ton of internal stresses, and if you drill into it the forces will be released, and the glass explodes.
Yeah Im using IC Diamond Paste on my gaming build, seem to cool good, my 3900x never go over 70% under full load. However,, not the easiest paste to work with its very thick, so ideally the tube under the sun 10 min before applying would help it spread.
indium sheets can perform very good as tim, but you need A LOT of mounting pressure, wich is not reasonably achieveble, especially between the die and IHS. the reason you need that much mounting pressure is the same reason you need TIM in the first place, you want to fill in microscopic gaps. to achieve that, the mouning pressure has to overcome the point where the TIM starts to expierience plastic deformation. I'm not sure if you need to maintain that level of mounting pressure or if a one time "pressing", maybe at high temperatures would be enough.
Ask GN Question: Why don't manufacturers ship computer cases not assembled (like furniture)? wouldn't it save on labor and shipping costs? (could you reach out to a case manufacturer and ask if they have an estimate of possible savings?)
I had coolaboratory with H100i + i3570k. Two years. Then it let the exact same print on the block and CPU as the original Corsair paste. The OEM was on it for 5 years before. You have to polish both surfaces as the instruction says. So warranty void. It had 5c better delta. In 550D full with HDDs and air cooled XFX RX 580 GTR-S uperhot. Low RPM intake and exhaust.
Why don't you (and other Influencer) support Louis Rossmann's fight for the Right to Repair? Will we ever see a Case that's designed by specialists for cooling and not marketing guys (who just focus on sales)?
I got my 2080 ti KP during the twitchcon weekend. It was a bundle package, $2000 for the KP , dg-86 case, 1300w g2 psu, and 240 CPU aio. The jayz2cents promo also worked with it so another 1200 p2 psu and then the associate code... So after tax it was $1960 total. I sold everything but the KP and it cost me less then my 2080 ti Fe card :)
Every card does this the exact same way, there's literally 0 difference between an entry-level card and a flagship card in terms of image quality, they are identical. Also, like literally 80% of a modern GPU chip is dedicated shader hardware... Because they're so heavily used in games.
With regards to indium sheets, have you looked at indigo Xtreme before? Its been on the market for a while now but it's a soft solid at room temp in a non conductive film and you let it heat soak to melt into all the imperfections. Just curious how that compares to liquid metal tim.
Question for next time: Why is mATX such an ignored formfactor for high end motherboards? In my experience a majority of gamers (and even smaller content creators) rarely use PCIe slots for more than 1 GPU and occationally a WIFI card when there isn't one built into the rear I/O. What advantages are there with a Full ATX board compared to mATX?
Ask GN: Hi Steve, If you have the time, can you give an insight on how often would you replace thermal paste? I tend to notice that my PC (both happened in Laptop and Desktop) tends to drop a significant amount in temperature when I re apply thermal paste (mostly Artic silver 5 and Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut). It takes around 2 weeks to a month for the temperature to come back up the previous application. Is it because the thermal paste gets pushed out? (CPU operating temperatures in Desktop are on waterloop, between 25 and 61 C on prime 95, mostly of the time it maxes at around 52 C, Ryzen 1700). Note: I live in Poland where winter temperatures are around -15C and summer reachers 40+C, Humidity varies from 25% in winter to over 80% in summer, and my home room tends to dust up rather quickly.
Omg @gamersnexus , did you see ROG's promo video for their new liquid metal process "exclusive" to all new intel 10th gen cpus... looks like that was the only way they could cool it!
I once decided I wanted to change cases from my old HAX-X. I bought the HAF-X when it came out to upgrade and migrate an existing build from my most favorite case of all time. I decided some RGB and "better" aesthetics were needed. I tried a fractal meshifiy was disappointed in OC stability and loss of frames due to temps. I tried a master case h500 which was better but also disappointed. All I/O QOL inmpovments missing on my old cases. Both my 10+ year old HAF-X and Antec 1200 Remain my all time favorites and they cool better too. To this day both run my primary machines. Both cases provide better temps and higher more stable overckocks than the cases I returned. Thanks Newegg! TL;DR - BRING BACK SIDE INTAKES AND OPEN FRONT ENDS!
@Gamers Nexus 29:46 "Pin to pad" you asked. My 9 year old ThermalTake Element S has a huge 230mm fan on the side which is powered in exactly this way. www.tweaktown.com/popImg.php?img=ttelements_06l.JPG Hardly pretty but did the job.
#AskGN Nvidia used to allow AIBs to make double VRAM models of cards if they wanted to. (960 4 GB, 660ti 3 GB being examples) Why did they stop allowing it? Clearly there is a market for people who want a 16 GB 3070 or a 20 GB 3080, so why doesn't Nvidia allow AIBs to do it? What would they lose?
Why is it a bad idea to pair 64 or 128GB of RAM with an X570 motherboard? Got a 3950x and a MSI x570 creation and I am running 16GB as a stand in while I wait for a good deal on a kit.
So I noticed the heat pipes on my laptops cpu cooler (ASUS ROG) only cover about 2/3rds of the heat plate, Im wondering If it would help temps to add a little heat sink with a thermal pad to the heat plate?
Is it still recommended (or was it ever to begin with) to keep a certain percentage of your ssd capacity free to retain its speed and / or extend its life time?
Why laptop GPU don't use HBM? It would use less space, less energy that can be directed to the core and those things people pay a lot for in laptops it certainly be more that the extra cost of HBM
I've heard the first Ryzen release didn't have great memory compatibly, but that this has greatly been improved for the newer platforms. What components or firmware are responsible for this change? I'm curious because of the broad backwards compatibility between old and new motherboards and CPUs (eg using a new gen cpu on an old mobo platform)
As for the backwards compatibility, think there's a table around for the amd am4 chipsets and the processors themselves. Basically, the 3xx has, at most, beta support for zen2, while x570 is not compatible with zen1. That means that full compatibility, at the moment, is zen+ and the 4xx chipsets. They all run, and can be run by, any am4 motherboard.
14:53 That whole question should be answered by Louis Rossman, he has the tools to do CPU/GPU swaps and does the work often enough fixing Apple's broken crap. Theres a possibility that he would do it too if asked for the right price... anyone willing to do it should be able to afford it considering how much they paid for in video cards just to have the GPU swapped to begin with.
I have watched quite a few Rossman videos and in one of them he mentioned that he would never take a job that involved desoldering a GPU on a Macbook because of how much of a hassle it is. I doubt that you would be able to convince him to do one on a graphics card without forking over more cash than what it would take to just buy a new graphics card.
People think that Joe only knows one word, but what they don't know is that his intonation changes for that one word, and each intonation has a very different meaning.
I suspect you might be able to get help with swapping GPU packages from Louis Rossmann because he has a BGA machine, but I have no idea how he would respond on the personal side.
Somebody ain't sleepin. Question is - let's see liquid helium overclocking at GN livesteam :P So you can answer once and for all, those question that popup every OC livestream "pff, LN2 OC, why not LHe instead?!". There ;)
@@NovemberOrWhatever Some CPUs can still work at temperature below -230...-240 °C. But yes, using helium to do overclocking is a big waste of non-recoverable resource paramount for scientific and technological advance of humankind.
i was wonderingm first some context. i am a over the road truck driver. i like to video edit, photo edit, and video game. even without doing my hobbys i require a working computer at all times. in the past ive had to buy new laptops when my main laptop breaks. which is a problem as i have to reserve a ssd slot. i also carry multiple external harddrives up to 10 and may need to have multiple plugged in at once. so my two questions. Is there a portable desktop solution that allows me to reach 64 gigs of ram and still be portable enough in all weather conditions whether it is covered or not? and since i can experience a couple hundred thousand miles a year with all the vibrations, are expensive ssds my only options?
I remember there is something like this: www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=644&area=en I first learn about it from LTT, when Linus was having a blast taking the piss out of Silverstone's exhibits (just jokingly): ruclips.net/video/Bvl5-t9gvR0/видео.html
Working in storage for a couple of years. Enterprise grade HDDs can take a bit more vibrations than desktop HDDs, as they are designed to run in chassis with 60-100+ drives at once. However, the shocks on the road are something completely different. There are special server cases available for extended mobile use even in rough terrain, mainly used by the military and expeditions. That will get more expensive than a bunch of enterprise grade SSDs, though. Regarding weather conditions, there are components and complete portable systems available that support extended environments from -20°C to +70°C, high humidity and dust. Thats mostly industrial stuff, passively cooled and/or with extensive filtering which usually ends up with lower performance and regular maintenance intervals. Something in between this and a regular consumer notebook would be a Panasonic Toughbook or something similar. Those usually last for years even under the hardest conditions, but should be replaced after the warranty ends to avoid any trouble.
@@cb139 The problem with laptops is that it is difficult to self service. If a component in a desktop breaks i can order it at a city ahead of me, go and pick up the product at the store. if a laptop does that I have to go and buy another laptop while sending the first one in for RMA. That could take months to send it and then receive it. And the cheap tempory laptop i bought would break pretty quickly. Like i just recently got rid of 25 cheap laptops. Ideally i dont want to buy them, but i cant work without one. and buying two laptops does not serve me well since i would still be have a issue with performance. while i am waiting to see how the amd lineup holds for laptops coming up, in the past laptops took a really long time to put a video together. While a amd desktop could take way less of a time if i got one right now. And on storage the temperature range be whats inside the semi truck. Most of the time it should not get too hot or too cold as the humans inside it would do what it can to adjust. The range it usually gets would be -10 degrees f to 160 f degrees if no one is inside the vehicle. that wont be operating temperatures and temperature under the bed would be more 85 degrees f. In fact usually keep room temperature items under the bed during the summer. although during the winter or in cold times you want to keep room temperature items ideally on the top bunk as that usually is the hottest part of the truck. it varies.
Hi Steve. Would you ever consider building a case yourself? You're so good with spotting flaws immediately - I suspect with a day with a metalworker you could make something rivalling the HAF-X in performance
I feel like part of something special here at GN thanks Steve and the rest of the Gamers Nexus team and all the community as well. There's always a friendly bunch of people here in the comments and it's nice. Thanks again 👍
@@huri9946 TecLab I think? Might be them, they work in the area at least and I see them talking about power supplies and doing these zombiefications all the time. They're great. If not them, try looking up RTX 2080ti Super and see what comes up
Wish I knew how to do that a few years back when I bought a 9800 GX2 and killed the memry on it by trying to get more go out of it. Stupid really, at the time it was a complete monster :~)
Hello Guys hello, my friend bought one, it’s not that bad of a card, heating is an issue though. We got the NZXT G12 bracket and a NZXT AIO (240mm liquid cooler) and it’s great. Look up the NZXT G12 bracket for a 5700xt. Best after market solution. The bracket is like $20, and the AIO, depending on which one you get, make sure it’s compatible, can be around $130. Super good results. Very quiet too.
You could also opt for an aftermarket air cooler, the arctic accelero appears to be a good option but I have little experience with aftermarket GPU solutions.
@DANK sure, you can buy the whole kit, but for someone who can't fit/doesn't want to do a full custom pump it's a good idea. Full custom is better tho.
Side intakes helped a lot with my GPU and NVME SSD...then again, the case also uses a 200mm side fan (and could possibly mount a 230mm looking at the mounting holes)
@@DaleEarnhardtsSeatbelt My case realistically can't even be fully utilised by any modern hardware, so unless I wanted something small, there is no upgrade path period. I can't even get motherboard that'd fill it. It can fit motherboards with 10x PCIe slots, and as far as I'm aware they don't exist outside of prototypes.
What are the criteria for reviewing stuff (e.g. AIO-Coolers)? I was kinda sad that the Arctic Freezer II was not review by you guys because it seemed pretty innovative (VRM-Fan [not technically new cause Cryorig], their own pump design, one header for all Motors). So that made me wonder what your process for selecting stuff for review is.
In regards to the fan connector for a side mounted fan and how they can get ripped off easily when taking the side of the case off and forgetting to disconnect you could just as well make a magnetic Breakaway connection for the fan power connection
I stick to my Define R5 just because it's got a side panel where i can mount a fan. It's a good case very quiet and good temps if you configure the fans in a good way, I hate tempered glass and if i wanted a glass case I'd buy a fish Tank or a see through plastic bucket. as for RGB I couldn't give a toss about it. I only have a RGB Keyboard and Mouse just so I can see the keys etc in the dark.
I have a question for you Tech Jesus: How does one learn BIOS F/W editing and creating F/W for Laptops and desktops? Didn't really find too many resources that give a fundamental based idea on how one can go about it. This has to do with making OEM locked hardware work anywhere (MXM gpus for example) and bypassing voltage and power limits on laptops for example.
Would be cool to know, mostly it's a matter of buying a popular laptop, I've the Op 17+ and was able to get an unlocked Bios to mod it like a desktop, was able to fine tune the voltage, clock, fan speed, to dramatically lower the temps
On the indium TIM, I wonder how the mounting pressure comes into play? Computer hardware is probably less tolerant of higher mounting pressure than other (Industrial?) applications. I suspect that a sheet of indium would require higher mounting pressure than more conventional TIM.
@@GamersNexus Indium would likely work best if you can get it to melt slightly. A tough task for sure. The other option would be to soften it a bit with a different eutectic mixture where it flows at a more reasonable temperature.
@@MrMackievelli You could probably use ultrasonic welding techniques to input a relatively low amount of heat and still flow the indium. There are ultrasonic soldering irons that can make indium solder flow - a modification to the head should be able to get it to flow and spread across a wide area. www.cheersonic.com/portfolio-items/industry-ultrasonic-soldering-iron-for-indium/
when i worked for an electronics manufacturer that did their own refurbs and repairs in house, we used pads that required "excessive heat" to flow, but once initial flow happens, you dont have to wait for temps to hit "holly hell that coolers boiling" for it to start working properly... it was mostly used in situations where extreme heat and cycling was expected, where reflow was also expected, often the units fans would only kick on after reflow temps were hit, then the fans would kick in and cool the whole unit down drastically... not a normal common use situation, less so now then back then even since electronics are more efficient and the units we built where some sort of industrial inverter with both stepup and step down, only thing i ever saw them used for was when tested off a huge bank of batteries and running various test equipment ac and dc, or the same units after repair used to re-charge batteries after testing, funny part was, we did all the tech work, then, the units got shipped someplace to be put in a new shell... despite us having those shells on the other side of the complex... very strange way they handled that...but... it was a job.. and watching my boss sit on a live, and amazingly hot power supply board, that was on test stool...that he was always telling people not to sit on or sat things not being worked on/tested on them... burned his ass threw his levis... so bad he ended up staying home for the rest of the week... LOL.. he was such a snotty shithead....
This is what the perforations or micro-springs are for, concentrating the clamping force down onto a smaller amount of indium or using spring forces from the indium itself. These products are actually marketed specifically for computer hardware TIM applications, which was why I brought them up.
Side fans are amazing, when i changed my system i went from my old case with side fan to a typical stupid glass panel. Since then i tested to run my system in my old case: ryzen 2700 at 4.15 ghz cooled with 240mm AIO, X470 Strix and Palit 2080. I dont have proper thermal gun, but AIDA showed that temps went from: 69 to 61 on CPU, 84-85 to 80 on GPU and most importantly from 87 to 69 on VRM. If my old case had dust filters and wasn't so out of date i would rather keept using it. So when i will be looking for a new case, a side fan will be a big factor for my purchase. Ps: i would also love if manufacturers once again started making custom VRM heatsinks, this would benefit many users with boards below 250$/€.
Very good and informative video. Thank You. I use to call the stuff I'ed mod Frankensteins when I was finished with them lol. I haven't done a crazy one in a long time. What I use right now for my GPU. XFX AMD Radeon VII My Cooling method = NZXT Kraken X62 280mm NZXT G12 (Personally Modded) *does not fit with the G12 natively. Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-3000 PWM 4-PIN (X2) Noctua NF-A9x14 PWM (X1) Innovation Cooling IC Graphite Thermal Pad + NT-H1 Thermal Paste (yes that's right I said it, I combine, I have always done that and have had no problems lol I always get confused looks about it) MSI AFTERBERNER v4.6.2.15743 Beta 4 IDLE TEMP=27C UNDERLOAD TEMPS=43C (With 8 hour gaming fluctuations included) 47C (with 100% stress testing and no fluctuations) Fan 35/50% (Idle/Full Load) 1.150V (1150mV) Power Limit % +99 Core Clock 1900(MHz) Memory Clock 1176(MHz No Crashes) - 1200(MHz doable however "for me" screen goes blank after about 6 hours) I've seen better clocks from others. *All tested under 100% load @4K MAX 2 hours Using Kombustor v4.1.5.0. *I do everything in 4K unless that option is not available. *I only use Noctua and/or Artic Silver for my Pastes' and Innovative Cooling for Pads and if Liquid Metal, I use Thermal Grizzly (Just my personal preferences). *I remove pre paste from AIO and replace, add thermal pad, then paste, then GPU. (Sooo....AIO/paste/pad/paste/GPU) Just in case anyone was wondering. - Yes it sounds crazy but I have been fine for years doing this on GPU's and CPU's and it works for me (especially with these results), do what works for you. - My Current Build NZXT H510 Bgears b-PowerMiner 1200W 80Plus Plat PSU ASRock X570 Taichi G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB DDR4 3200 (X1) AMD Ryzen 7 3700X OC'ed to 4.0GHz (on air with stock cooler and paste until I get my AIO) 43C Idle/68C Full Load. XFX AMD Radeon VII + NZXT G12 NZXT Kraken X62 280mm Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-3000 PWM 4-PIN (X3) Noctua NF-F12 iPPC 3000 PWM 4-PIN (X1) Noctua NF-A9x14 PWM (X1) Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 2TB (Main drive) Samsung 860 QVO Series 2.5" 4TB SSD (Secondary drive) WD 10TB Surveillance (X1) WD 5TB Black (X2) WD 2TB Green (X1)
Dear Steve and GN. I was wondering if turning CPU to real time or high etc really does help gaming or multithreaded operations in any way whether it be fps, latency, etc. I sweat that 1% lows or avg fps seem to be higher when I go to real time
For Ask GN: Apart from the motor or the bearing, what improves case fan performance more? Is it the number of blades, the angle of the blades, the design of the blades, etc.? Is static pressure vs airflow still a thing, or are there fans that have a good balance between the two? Can buyers trust the airflow, static pressure, and noise numbers listed by fan makers and vendors? Thanks GN!
Why doesn't AiO coolers just use standard car coolant? I've used some extremely old new stuff (from Woolco to help date it) to restore a cooler that was completely gunked up. I've left that sitting for around 2 years because I didn't have a use for it/didn't have the proper mounting hardware (only had the LGA 2011 screw plate) but I recently took it and ziptied it to a 3770 and it worked perfectly. Absolutely 0 issues except maybe I underfilled it as it was noisy in some orientations, but that didn't affect performance. Also tried some experiments by cooling the radiator in a bucket of dry iced coolant, which also worked fine.
Pin-to-pad would be stupid-complex to engineer and implement. You're talking about an additional brace along one side with not just contacts for four-pin / three pin fans but also the RGB connectors, which then would make it a miniaturized 8-pin connector.The pads would have to be mounted to the side panel, and the pins would have to be mounted to an otherwise-useless support mechanism which would not permit easy access. There could be slots in the case body to permit drop-in installation and some tabs with indents to pop the rail in place, giving it _some_ semblance of attachment, _or_ an indented tab on front with a thumbscrew in back ala old-style cases which allowed only eight screws to hold in an optical device (and usually, it was _only_ two of the eight holes anyway) which would provide both a temporary and permanent attachment. But the means to fasten it still has to be engineered into a case. _That's not ever going to happen. What I would like to see manufacturers of cases do is to have a cutout for the GPU, entirely. We see this with sandwich-style boards where the GPU is side-mounted with riser, so why not purpose that with mesh on a steel panel to draw in cool air from the outside? The GPU heatsink willl still work as intended to spill its hot air out, but the case, allowing for air to come in from outside directly rather than a convoluted 90-degree rotation from top, back or side would be better than in the middle next to other components. It would make for a wider case, but that's what needs to be done to re-introduce side intake. Sapphire's Pulse RX AMD AIB cards has a very ingenious fan system where only one screw holds it on, with the fan motor assembly on a thin plastic frame. For people who would rather side _exhaust_ with their GPU, Sapphire's partners could easily produce a flipped version which spits the air out directly from the top and draw in from the sides, which would make the GPU function similarly to side-mounted exhaust for the entire system should a user prefer. More video card manufacturers making their fan assemblies easily removable from cooler housings would permit more of an interest in cases with side ventilation, provided people want this, and people _do_ want this, but they're a vocal minority the case manufacturers are not going to heed because the idea is too expansive to manufacturer, and many users... simply don't care about performance. We've seen that 2018, we've seen that 2019, we're seeing it today. Shame it came to that, but manufacturers need to satisfy the _majority_ of users, and avoid being too niche to remain profitable. You voting with your wallet is irrelevant, and the RUclips tech scene is also partly to blame for this, showing off concepts which choke airflow back in 2018 and people just _eating that up. _Couldn't have enough!_ Also sadly, even though some people in the tech scene _eventually_ made their cries for airflow heard, and cases are being made with airflow in mind thanks to the efforts of every Steve in the scene (people who know will get the joke), the airflow trend is going to last for maybe a year or two before case manufactures cock it up again and block off _all_ of the holes for cost savings, passing it off as for looks. It's only a matter of time.
A few questions on your schedule in one, I hope you can answer at least a few of them. Why did you stop uploading frequent Ask GN episodes? I think in the last two years there were only 16 or so, while we got almost weekly episodes before that. When is the popular fans roundup coming that was promised around 2 years ago? With all of the expensive PSU testing gear you aquired, are we going to get more PSU reviews?
heres some news you may of missed , anyway AMD has quit using or promoting there AMD StoreMi tech, on there site it says this and they are working on something new and better, but if u go to fuzedrive site you can get it for 10 bucks rite now LOL for the full thing idk if its worth it or not but still cool to know that they maybe working on something else
Yes it says AMD StoreMI storage acceleration software will no longer be available for download after March 31, 2020. An exciting new version, with enhanced features, is planned for release in 2Q20.
Did they? I remember it as just resoldering the gpu die, because the solder balls were disconnecting and the ye olde oven trick wasn't a good solution to melt them permanently, that was the lesson why that's a bad idea. Also they got into their conversation they forgot about the gpu and left it under heat for too long and destroyed it.
Hey Steve, in case you want some more info on the Indium sheets, it's nothing specifically made for CPU's but usually used to cool down lasers. It's used as a TIM and it's bassically just a very thing sheet of Indium that gets crushed in between. Because indium has thermal conductivity of 86W/mk and is very soft, with enough preassure it will plastically deform and fill those microscopic gaps. The perforated sheets exist because since it's 2/3 or 1/2 of the material without the perforations, it takes that much less force to deform them so it might be more doable under a CPU block. You can get them on ebay and aliexpress, and there are some specialized companies making them.
In my experience CPU and GPU mounting pressures were far too low to get indium foil or even micro-spring/micro-lattice sheets to work adequately sadly. There might be a thicker and more easily deformable product I didn't encounter, as my experience with Indium was somewhat limited and "laser"-focused (ha) on FPGA immersion cooling. A thicker and softer version might better suit the low mount pressures found in consumer hardware better. Seems like Indium-based sheets require pressures of 60PSI and beyond, while consumer hardware only usually mounts around 30-40PSI. The exponential curve in thermal resistance vs pressure for indium sheets results in intolerably weak performance at that mark.
@@soulofjacobeh On the GPU, since it's the bare naked chips you can't really put more preassure, but on the CPU side on the other hand, with the IHS I think you can get enough preassure (maybe with a plastic washer) on the perforated sheets. I haven't been able to test it yet though.
@@pagaiba3 Yep you're right about the low pressure situation with GPUs. I've been trying to track down some manufacturer specs for AM4 and Intel platforms to see if there's a safe way to get it high enough. For the CPU I had to test with in the office at the time, I did crank the pressure up, but it was such a low power CPU that I really couldn't use any of the data. I also couldn't measure the pressure I was applying to see how high I got it. Edit: As an aside, bringing pressure too high on CPUs usually slightly flexes the motherboard. If it doesn't immediately cause issues, it certainly does long term in most cases. Hence why I didn't yolo-test it much. I notice that on AM4 the mounting pressure is low enough that I don't get superior thermals (vs thermal grease) with even consumer-targeted graphite pads (e.g. IC graphite and Thermal Grizzly's fabric-like one), whereas on Intel Xeon 2000/3000 series the pressure was so high that IC graphite was better than every consumer paste I could test. I need to try the Indium sheets on that Xeon platform again. Stock mounting pressure on that was ridiculous. Based on its behavior with the graphite pads, I might be able to substitute the somewhat compressible IC graphite pads in for Indium for short-term testing platforms.
Nvidia bins them before sending them to any of those people, and keep the best for themselves. So those FE GPU cores are almost always going to be the best.
Thanks Steve! I'll check these places when I visit Taiwan. As you can imagine, my trip is postponed. Right now, you would need to provide documents of granted entry + stay in quarantine for 14 days. Nevermind the fact that most flights are cancelled.
#AskGN Will you guys ever continue your memory timings explained series? It looks like you only ever did part 1. If so, is there a roadmap for when it might happen or is it just “eventually”?
Yeah side intake fans do a great job in keeping GPU thermals in check. Have an old Antec three hundred that I bought new years ago. My first case with a side intake
I really appreciate your honesty and knowledge. It’s clear you care and take time with each response and explanation. The pc community owes you for sharing your passion with us
Hi, Gamer Nexus never adressed Apple attempt at revolutionning Desktop design with their Mac Pro 2019, which features many great innovating features in terms of case design. Do you think it will be featured on Gamer Nexus one day ? It would be great to have you testing the thermal performance of all their gimmick. Thanks a lot !
Would love to see you guys use the EVC2 by Elmor to push the Voltage on a 2080 Ti or a Titan RTX. I would be interested to see Turing's scaling with more voltage, that 1.093 voltage limit is annoying on Pascal.
27:37 cube like or deeper cases with the psu in the back panel instead of the bottom shelf, you can have fans on the bottom, Corsair has an itx case like this right now
Just ordered an MSI MEG X570 UNIFY Motherboard because it's time to upgrade from my ASRock Z170 OC Formula LGA 1151 Motherboard and next month I'll order a Ryzen 7 3700x to upgrade the i7-6700K. It's not something I made the decision on, but I'm happy the the MSI motherboard is black with no LEDs. They use it as a selling point. So here's the question. Do you think the LED craze is tapering off? For myself it was never anything that attracted me. I never sit and look inside my desktop even though it has glass in the side panel. I would never pay extra for something to have LEDs because for me there's no benefit. I was surprised to see that MSI is proudly proclaiming no LEDs. What do you think?
I am currently using this exact "LIQUID MetalPad" Which I am pretty sure is the product you were talking about. and I can agree, these things are so incredibly thin (feels as thin as gold foil) that there's a good chance that, depending on how you tightened the screws on your cooler, there's noticeable imperfections. You're supposed to switch off your cooling and let the CPU "burn in" for 30+Minutes at at least 70°c for the metal to liquefy and spread out properly. This does not perform any better than standard MX-4 thermal paste. In fact I might have trouble with hot spots on my Ryzen 3900x IHS so this stuff is definitely coming off the next time I change something on my build.
Hi Steve@GN, the gauge and length of the wire causes the resistance. A small gauge wire say 24 and 12" long will have way more resistance than a larger 6 gauge wire 2" long. Also m (milli) ohms is .001 ohms and M (Mega) ohms is 1,000,000 ohms, that is a huge difference. Just in case anyone wants to know. Very informative video, thanks...
14:53 Here in Brazil a know overclocker made a 2080Ti SUPER transplanting a 2080Ti GPU into a 2080 SUPER PCB (with better memory) ruclips.net/video/UqlKrGFmxKY/видео.html
![DDG & G Herbo - Nosey [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I9Ra0Zc2NlQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Timestamps in the description as well. The Patrons Ask GN episode is now live: www.patreon.com/posts/35658549 -- thanks to all our supporters for the help, especially during this time. You can submit questions for the next episode via the YT comments or via Discord (for Patreon backers).
Watch TiN explain to us his e-power video cards: ruclips.net/video/ewkVNoMbcCc/видео.html
Find Joe here: ruclips.net/channel/UCHcGSnu7Izq231nAS5zFmsw
can you try pure potassium metal as a thermal paste? with the heatsink vacuum sealed on the cpu.
Yeah... one video solder GPU into water block...kakaka
What do you think is the best budget card, new or used? I would assume it's the RX 580 but I would love to hear what you think.
1st I got the shirt I ordered, took a while to get here to Australia, thx. Are you going to do a covid folding at home shirt?
You should find a dead Titan RTX, and transplant it onto a 2080 Ti board, add in the additional memory chip and see if you can get that working!
To transplant a GPU, you don't need to do the procedure with tweezers and heat gun to restore the solder balls. What you need is:
- laser cut stainless steel BGA template
- equally sized solder balls (you can buy them in different sizes)
- solder wick to remove old solder
- heat gun
- IR heated plate -- this is so the board won't deform
The process is called BGA reballing. This will have much higher chance of success than doing it manually. Also it doesn't take that long.
Good guy GN having descriptions with their timestamps. True heroes here, kids.
Following the side intake fan question, how about GPU exhaust fan? I have an 80mm fan strapped to PCI cutouts under the GPU and it improved the thermals noticeably, in theory because it sucks air under the GPU. But I have an old crappy case and I would like to see how it performs on broader variety of cases. And BTW it's way easier not to do holes in the glass, but instead make a notch for a small metal mesh piece on the side of the glass panel.
Regarding side intake fans, I wouldn’t have an air cooled card without a fan there to get fresh air to it. I’ve modded cases to put one on a case that didn’t come with one. Worst case scenario, take the side cover completely off and cool the graphics card with an external fan lol
I did that for years before I got into liquid cooling. I had multiple multi GPU setups of 2, 3, and 4 GPUs. I had three side intake, top blowing, pin wheel style air filters that moved a lot of air on high or moved moderate air on medium while remaining silent. My systems never got dusty lol and even with 3 graphics cards sandwiched together, temps remained decent. If you know anything about blower cards when you sandwich 3 together, the middle one ordinarily gets very hot compared to the other two. Although, to be fair, I did have two GTX 280s die on me once out of a 3 way SLI setup. But XFX replaced them for free, so who knows what happened there?
Yup i have a Fractal Design Define R5 with a side intake fan!! Easily lowers my GPU temps about 6-8C compared with no side intake. I also recently bought a thermal probe sensor which is supported on my Asus Maximus X Hero motherboard and stuck it to the back of my GPU. I use the thermal probe temp to control the side fan using the Fan control in the BIOS. Works amazing the side intake fan hits about 50% fan speed at 60C and will only hit 100% fan speed at 75C which pretty much never happens anyway.
did you also have the XFX 790 i mobo...I had that setup ...3 GTX 280's sucked a lot of juice....I took the grill plate off the backs of them, the bit that screws the cards to the chassis, those things were quite restrictive..certainly helped...
psycronizer actually I had an ASUS Striker II Extreme 790i, that was like the God of mother boards back then. Back when $300 was considered crazy for a mother board. It was such a great board. I had an EVGA 780i before that and the chipset used to get really hot, around 70c with 3 way SLI. That’s when I started liquid cooling, hence the Striker II, it had a water block to cool the chipset. Although, after I upgraded, I removed my cooling system and added this funny little fan I made. It was a tiny 40mm fan blowing through a little funnel and a tube so I could get air through the water block lol, surprisingly it worked well enough to keep temps in check, but I wasn’t running 3 way SLI anymore at that point, I was running 4 way Crossfire with HD 5970s on my next system.
Actually what’s great about that system? I sold that ASUS board years later for $350 and the Q9650 that was good for 4.05 GHz at 1.325v on air for $300.
I have a inwin 101c with air cooling intake at back, 2 intakes at bottom yeeting air at the gpu and 2 side exhausts near the front. Gpu and CPU temps are good because they both get fresh air
@@Shadowdane I have the now retired Fractal Arc Midi. I have a slim 180mm Silverstone fan mounted on the side as an exhaust which seems unorthodox but I have crossfired GPU's so helps my CPU. I see the R5 is still listed on Fractals site so still an option.
The GPU can be done, I am a Rework engineer who worked to install and do research on the first BGA machine. It is NOT for the average hobbyist. It takes a stereo microscope a set of hot micro tweezers a ton of patience and a bunch of time. In the defense and aerospace industry I have done them to increase memory capacity of obsolete systems on the B-52 avionics, I did it in the early 2000s to update the encoder boards in the Hubble telescope (It was cool because I built the originals at Sperry univac when I first started out) I also did them to update the U2 for NASA as part of a avionics update to allow it to operate on civilian networks. BGA processors are not easy but it can be done as a once in a lifetime experience. Btw, if you overheat the board, its toast forever.
I used to own an Aerocool VX-E pro as my first case. AMD Phenom II X6-1090T BE, HD 6870, 4GB ram. Man, that thing had one hell of a side intake. One hell of a front one too!
Mesh VS CCX design all cores clock for clock, but mesh (cache pushed) and ccx pushed to fast speeds compared to stock!
BTW, don't try to drill through tempered glass, because in the tempering process the glass gets a ton of internal stresses, and if you drill into it the forces will be released, and the glass explodes.
Yeah Im using IC Diamond Paste on my gaming build, seem to cool good, my 3900x never go over 70% under full load. However,, not the easiest paste to work with its very thick, so ideally the tube under the sun 10 min before applying would help it spread.
indium sheets can perform very good as tim, but you need A LOT of mounting pressure, wich is not reasonably achieveble, especially between the die and IHS.
the reason you need that much mounting pressure is the same reason you need TIM in the first place, you want to fill in microscopic gaps. to achieve that, the mouning pressure has to overcome the point where the TIM starts to expierience plastic deformation. I'm not sure if you need to maintain that level of mounting pressure or if a one time "pressing", maybe at high temperatures would be enough.
Ask GN Question: Why don't manufacturers ship computer cases not assembled (like furniture)? wouldn't it save on labor and shipping costs? (could you reach out to a case manufacturer and ask if they have an estimate of possible savings?)
I had coolaboratory with H100i + i3570k. Two years. Then it let the exact same print on the block and CPU as the original Corsair paste. The OEM was on it for 5 years before.
You have to polish both surfaces as the instruction says. So warranty void. It had 5c better delta. In 550D full with HDDs and air cooled XFX RX 580 GTR-S uperhot. Low RPM intake and exhaust.
Steve, when do you recommend updating your BIOS and what influences manufacturers to release updates for increasingly older equipment?
great video
Why don't you (and other Influencer) support Louis Rossmann's fight for the Right to Repair?
Will we ever see a Case that's designed by specialists for cooling and not marketing guys (who just focus on sales)?
I believe they do support right to repair but dont make a deal about it
I got my 2080 ti KP during the twitchcon weekend. It was a bundle package, $2000 for the KP , dg-86 case, 1300w g2 psu, and 240 CPU aio. The jayz2cents promo also worked with it so another 1200 p2 psu and then the associate code... So after tax it was $1960 total. I sold everything but the KP and it cost me less then my 2080 ti Fe card :)
He's got a Tech Odin helmet! What a champion! 😂
When will graphics cards get better at rendering shadows/shaders and anti aliasing? It only seems like the flagship cards do it decently.
Every card does this the exact same way, there's literally 0 difference between an entry-level card and a flagship card in terms of image quality, they are identical. Also, like literally 80% of a modern GPU chip is dedicated shader hardware... Because they're so heavily used in games.
Question on the thermal pads that were too thin. Was this on an ISH and cooler that were lapped?
I think Steve is still in Taiwan. We got some guy here in a blue t-shirt. We all know Steve only wears black t-shirts.
With regards to indium sheets, have you looked at indigo Xtreme before? Its been on the market for a while now but it's a soft solid at room temp in a non conductive film and you let it heat soak to melt into all the imperfections. Just curious how that compares to liquid metal tim.
Question for next time: Why is mATX such an ignored formfactor for high end motherboards? In my experience a majority of gamers (and even smaller content creators) rarely use PCIe slots for more than 1 GPU and occationally a WIFI card when there isn't one built into the rear I/O. What advantages are there with a Full ATX board compared to mATX?
Ask GN: Hi Steve, If you have the time, can you give an insight on how often would you replace thermal paste?
I tend to notice that my PC (both happened in Laptop and Desktop) tends to drop a significant amount in temperature when I re apply thermal paste (mostly Artic silver 5 and Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut).
It takes around 2 weeks to a month for the temperature to come back up the previous application. Is it because the thermal paste gets pushed out? (CPU operating temperatures in Desktop are on waterloop, between 25 and 61 C on prime 95, mostly of the time it maxes at around 52 C, Ryzen 1700).
Note: I live in Poland where winter temperatures are around -15C and summer reachers 40+C, Humidity varies from 25% in winter to over 80% in summer, and my home room tends to dust up rather quickly.
Omg @gamersnexus , did you see ROG's promo video for their new liquid metal process "exclusive" to all new intel 10th gen cpus... looks like that was the only way they could cool it!
I once decided I wanted to change cases from my old HAX-X. I bought the HAF-X when it came out to upgrade and migrate an existing build from my most favorite case of all time. I decided some RGB and "better" aesthetics were needed. I tried a fractal meshifiy was disappointed in OC stability and loss of frames due to temps. I tried a master case h500 which was better but also disappointed.
All I/O QOL inmpovments missing on my old cases. Both my 10+ year old HAF-X and Antec 1200 Remain my all time favorites and they cool better too. To this day both run my primary machines. Both cases provide better temps and higher more stable overckocks than the cases I returned. Thanks Newegg!
TL;DR - BRING BACK SIDE INTAKES AND OPEN FRONT ENDS!
Go to bed 🤣 jk thank you for something new to watch. Stay safe out there!!
I like to watch eli's videos on fixing graphic cards, too bad he is not uploading more video now :(
@Gamers Nexus 29:46 "Pin to pad" you asked. My 9 year old ThermalTake Element S has a huge 230mm fan on the side which is powered in exactly this way. www.tweaktown.com/popImg.php?img=ttelements_06l.JPG Hardly pretty but did the job.
#AskGN Nvidia used to allow AIBs to make double VRAM models of cards if they wanted to. (960 4 GB, 660ti 3 GB being examples) Why did they stop allowing it? Clearly there is a market for people who want a 16 GB 3070 or a 20 GB 3080, so why doesn't Nvidia allow AIBs to do it? What would they lose?
Tech Odin looks like a real viking!
Assassin's Creed Ragnarok confirmed.
TiN doesnt work at EVGA anymore?
Can you solder additional VRAM to your GPU?
Why is it a bad idea to pair 64 or 128GB of RAM with an X570 motherboard? Got a 3950x and a MSI x570 creation and I am running 16GB as a stand in while I wait for a good deal on a kit.
Can you do a EBike build video with parts list, where to get parts....?
Maybe for the secondary channel!
So I noticed the heat pipes on my laptops cpu cooler (ASUS ROG) only cover about 2/3rds of the heat plate, Im wondering If it would help temps to add a little heat sink with a thermal pad to the heat plate?
will x370 support ryzen 4k? there was already issues with some not supporting 3k when it was first announced due to the new pcie
Wow nice shirt! Is this available to buy?
How much donation to have Steve do a video with his hair in Princess Leia buns?
Is it still recommended (or was it ever to begin with) to keep a certain percentage of your ssd capacity free to retain its speed and / or extend its life time?
Why there is a mountain of cpus (Intel?) on the table??
Why laptop GPU don't use HBM? It would use less space, less energy that can be directed to the core and those things people pay a lot for in laptops it certainly be more that the extra cost of HBM
What is currently the best chipset, and phc? I am not patreon.
For the first time in a while, Steve doesn’t wear black
Its been the same shirt, all this time.
The shirt has simply shunt modded to appear blue.
It's a host. High fidelity, must say.
If you checkout some of his older videos he's wearing blue too.
Dude I knew something was off, thanks lol
Silicone Lottery - When you come out of the procedure looking natural.
This cracked me up 🤣
I've heard the first Ryzen release didn't have great memory compatibly, but that this has greatly been improved for the newer platforms. What components or firmware are responsible for this change? I'm curious because of the broad backwards compatibility between old and new motherboards and CPUs (eg using a new gen cpu on an old mobo platform)
Memory controller update, AMD mentioned it when zen+ was launched along with a major selling point for zen2
As for the backwards compatibility, think there's a table around for the amd am4 chipsets and the processors themselves. Basically, the 3xx has, at most, beta support for zen2, while x570 is not compatible with zen1.
That means that full compatibility, at the moment, is zen+ and the 4xx chipsets. They all run, and can be run by, any am4 motherboard.
@@GrimpakTheMook no, thats b350 with semi support for zen2, but x370 full support for zen2 all around
@@Tallnerdyguy then the data I saw was outdated (showed beta support only for those), thanks for the correction!
@@Tallnerdyguy Not quite full support, most 3xx and 4xx boards don't support pcie-e4 but that's not really a problem.
14:53 That whole question should be answered by Louis Rossman, he has the tools to do CPU/GPU swaps and does the work often enough fixing Apple's broken crap. Theres a possibility that he would do it too if asked for the right price... anyone willing to do it should be able to afford it considering how much they paid for in video cards just to have the GPU swapped to begin with.
Yeah, My first thought was that Louis could answer soldering GPU that really well
Can be done relatively easy with the right equipment, can it be done reliably? No not really.
Use the zhuomao!
I have watched quite a few Rossman videos and in one of them he mentioned that he would never take a job that involved desoldering a GPU on a Macbook because of how much of a hassle it is. I doubt that you would be able to convince him to do one on a graphics card without forking over more cash than what it would take to just buy a new graphics card.
One russian channel on youtube put a gtx 1070 chip onto a 1060 board, also added memory chips so it's 8GB
Slacker!?!?
People think that Joe only knows one word, but what they don't know is that his intonation changes for that one word, and each intonation has a very different meaning.
@@GamersNexus So he is a pokeman?
I’m still waiting for my LN2 Pots from Roman haha
Taiwan is my favorite place, it’s like florida with mountains ahhaha
Brad Haines florida man is real haha
I suspect you might be able to get help with swapping GPU packages from Louis Rossmann because he has a BGA machine, but I have no idea how he would respond on the personal side.
I would love colab between GN and Louis so much. I thing they would be pretty compatible in hardware content.
this!!
Somebody ain't sleepin. Question is - let's see liquid helium overclocking at GN livesteam :P So you can answer once and for all, those question that popup every OC livestream "pff, LN2 OC, why not LHe instead?!". There ;)
We might need some help with that one...
@@GamersNexus It's probably expensive as all hell with the price of helium
what's the advantage of helium? wouldn't cold bug make it pointless?
@@NovemberOrWhatever Some CPUs can still work at temperature below -230...-240 °C. But yes, using helium to do overclocking is a big waste of non-recoverable resource paramount for scientific and technological advance of humankind.
@@KirstyWales $6k+ USD for one dewar. LN2 cost is
i was wonderingm first some context. i am a over the road truck driver. i like to video edit, photo edit, and video game. even without doing my hobbys i require a working computer at all times. in the past ive had to buy new laptops when my main laptop breaks. which is a problem as i have to reserve a ssd slot. i also carry multiple external harddrives up to 10 and may need to have multiple plugged in at once. so my two questions. Is there a portable desktop solution that allows me to reach 64 gigs of ram and still be portable enough in all weather conditions whether it is covered or not? and since i can experience a couple hundred thousand miles a year with all the vibrations, are expensive ssds my only options?
Great question. We'll try to ask some storage experts.
I remember there is something like this:
www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=644&area=en
I first learn about it from LTT, when Linus was having a blast taking the piss out of Silverstone's exhibits (just jokingly):
ruclips.net/video/Bvl5-t9gvR0/видео.html
I believe server grade HDD's are alot lore vibration and heat resistant than regular Seagate Barracudas and WD Reds
Working in storage for a couple of years. Enterprise grade HDDs can take a bit more vibrations than desktop HDDs, as they are designed to run in chassis with 60-100+ drives at once. However, the shocks on the road are something completely different. There are special server cases available for extended mobile use even in rough terrain, mainly used by the military and expeditions. That will get more expensive than a bunch of enterprise grade SSDs, though.
Regarding weather conditions, there are components and complete portable systems available that support extended environments from -20°C to +70°C, high humidity and dust. Thats mostly industrial stuff, passively cooled and/or with extensive filtering which usually ends up with lower performance and regular maintenance intervals. Something in between this and a regular consumer notebook would be a Panasonic Toughbook or something similar. Those usually last for years even under the hardest conditions, but should be replaced after the warranty ends to avoid any trouble.
@@cb139 The problem with laptops is that it is difficult to self service. If a component in a desktop breaks i can order it at a city ahead of me, go and pick up the product at the store. if a laptop does that I have to go and buy another laptop while sending the first one in for RMA. That could take months to send it and then receive it. And the cheap tempory laptop i bought would break pretty quickly. Like i just recently got rid of 25 cheap laptops. Ideally i dont want to buy them, but i cant work without one. and buying two laptops does not serve me well since i would still be have a issue with performance. while i am waiting to see how the amd lineup holds for laptops coming up, in the past laptops took a really long time to put a video together. While a amd desktop could take way less of a time if i got one right now. And on storage the temperature range be whats inside the semi truck. Most of the time it should not get too hot or too cold as the humans inside it would do what it can to adjust. The range it usually gets would be -10 degrees f to 160 f degrees if no one is inside the vehicle. that wont be operating temperatures and temperature under the bed would be more 85 degrees f. In fact usually keep room temperature items under the bed during the summer. although during the winter or in cold times you want to keep room temperature items ideally on the top bunk as that usually is the hottest part of the truck. it varies.
Hi Steve. Would you ever consider building a case yourself? You're so good with spotting flaws immediately - I suspect with a day with a metalworker you could make something rivalling the HAF-X in performance
Minds you, a good food critic doesn't make a good chef, a good movie reviewer might not be a good director.
Steven Zephyc they’re subjective opinion based fields, best cooling case would be engineered scientific results driven (aesthetics aside)
I feel like part of something special here at GN thanks Steve and the rest of the Gamers Nexus team and all the community as well. There's always a friendly bunch of people here in the comments and it's nice.
Thanks again 👍
There’s a Brazilian channel that did a 2080 Ti “super”. Transplanting memory from a 2080 super onto a 2080ti card.
what's the name of the channel?
@@huri9946 TecLab I think? Might be them, they work in the area at least and I see them talking about power supplies and doing these zombiefications all the time. They're great. If not them, try looking up RTX 2080ti Super and see what comes up
Wish I knew how to do that a few years back when I bought a 9800 GX2 and killed the memry on it by trying to get more go out of it. Stupid really, at the time it was a complete monster :~)
@@pegasusted2504
Ha ha, still got my 9800 GX2, keeping it as a relic of the past.
I was a pretty common procedure to do on the ps3
I've just gotten the XFX 5700xt GN recommended heavily against. It was on sale. How do I salvage it? What's the best aftermarket GPU cooler?
Hello Guys hello, my friend bought one, it’s not that bad of a card, heating is an issue though. We got the NZXT G12 bracket and a NZXT AIO (240mm liquid cooler) and it’s great. Look up the NZXT G12 bracket for a 5700xt. Best after market solution. The bracket is like $20, and the AIO, depending on which one you get, make sure it’s compatible, can be around $130. Super good results. Very quiet too.
You could also opt for an aftermarket air cooler, the arctic accelero appears to be a good option but I have little experience with aftermarket GPU solutions.
@DANK sure, you can buy the whole kit, but for someone who can't fit/doesn't want to do a full custom pump it's a good idea. Full custom is better tho.
Side intakes helped a lot with my GPU and NVME SSD...then again, the case also uses a 200mm side fan (and could possibly mount a 230mm looking at the mounting holes)
Same here. I just left a comment about it. There are no case upgrades after 2010 unless you value form over function.
@@DaleEarnhardtsSeatbelt My case realistically can't even be fully utilised by any modern hardware, so unless I wanted something small, there is no upgrade path period.
I can't even get motherboard that'd fill it. It can fit motherboards with 10x PCIe slots, and as far as I'm aware they don't exist outside of prototypes.
Day 7 of asking tech Jesus what kind of shampoo and conditioner he used
What are the criteria for reviewing stuff (e.g. AIO-Coolers)? I was kinda sad that the Arctic Freezer II was not review by you guys because it seemed pretty innovative (VRM-Fan [not technically new cause Cryorig], their own pump design, one header for all Motors). So that made me wonder what your process for selecting stuff for review is.
In regards to the fan connector for a side mounted fan and how they can get ripped off easily when taking the side of the case off and forgetting to disconnect you could just as well make a magnetic Breakaway connection for the fan power connection
I stick to my Define R5 just because it's got a side panel where i can mount a fan. It's a good case very quiet and good temps if you configure the fans in a good way, I hate tempered glass and if i wanted a glass case I'd buy a fish Tank or a see through plastic bucket. as for RGB I couldn't give a toss about it. I only have a RGB Keyboard and Mouse just so I can see the keys etc in the dark.
I have a question for you Tech Jesus: How does one learn BIOS F/W editing and creating F/W for Laptops and desktops? Didn't really find too many resources that give a fundamental based idea on how one can go about it. This has to do with making OEM locked hardware work anywhere (MXM gpus for example) and bypassing voltage and power limits on laptops for example.
Would be cool to know, mostly it's a matter of buying a popular laptop, I've the Op 17+ and was able to get an unlocked Bios to mod it like a desktop, was able to fine tune the voltage, clock, fan speed, to dramatically lower the temps
nVidia: MXM? What's that?
On the indium TIM, I wonder how the mounting pressure comes into play? Computer hardware is probably less tolerant of higher mounting pressure than other (Industrial?) applications. I suspect that a sheet of indium would require higher mounting pressure than more conventional TIM.
Excellent question and point!
@@GamersNexus Indium would likely work best if you can get it to melt slightly. A tough task for sure. The other option would be to soften it a bit with a different eutectic mixture where it flows at a more reasonable temperature.
@@MrMackievelli You could probably use ultrasonic welding techniques to input a relatively low amount of heat and still flow the indium. There are ultrasonic soldering irons that can make indium solder flow - a modification to the head should be able to get it to flow and spread across a wide area.
www.cheersonic.com/portfolio-items/industry-ultrasonic-soldering-iron-for-indium/
when i worked for an electronics manufacturer that did their own refurbs and repairs in house, we used pads that required "excessive heat" to flow, but once initial flow happens, you dont have to wait for temps to hit "holly hell that coolers boiling" for it to start working properly... it was mostly used in situations where extreme heat and cycling was expected, where reflow was also expected, often the units fans would only kick on after reflow temps were hit, then the fans would kick in and cool the whole unit down drastically...
not a normal common use situation, less so now then back then even since electronics are more efficient and the units we built where some sort of industrial inverter with both stepup and step down, only thing i ever saw them used for was when tested off a huge bank of batteries and running various test equipment ac and dc, or the same units after repair used to re-charge batteries after testing, funny part was, we did all the tech work, then, the units got shipped someplace to be put in a new shell... despite us having those shells on the other side of the complex... very strange way they handled that...but... it was a job.. and watching my boss sit on a live, and amazingly hot power supply board, that was on test stool...that he was always telling people not to sit on or sat things not being worked on/tested on them... burned his ass threw his levis... so bad he ended up staying home for the rest of the week... LOL.. he was such a snotty shithead....
This is what the perforations or micro-springs are for, concentrating the clamping force down onto a smaller amount of indium or using spring forces from the indium itself. These products are actually marketed specifically for computer hardware TIM applications, which was why I brought them up.
5:36 onward for a few seconds was the most anxiety-inducing thing I've seen in weeks!
I felt pain from just looking at it... Pavlov reflex of tech enthusiasts
Side fans are amazing, when i changed my system i went from my old case with side fan to a typical stupid glass panel. Since then i tested to run my system in my old case: ryzen 2700 at 4.15 ghz cooled with 240mm AIO, X470 Strix and Palit 2080. I dont have proper thermal gun, but AIDA showed that temps went from: 69 to 61 on CPU, 84-85 to 80 on GPU and most importantly from 87 to 69 on VRM. If my old case had dust filters and wasn't so out of date i would rather keept using it. So when i will be looking for a new case, a side fan will be a big factor for my purchase. Ps: i would also love if manufacturers once again started making custom VRM heatsinks, this would benefit many users with boards below 250$/€.
Very good and informative video.
Thank You. I use to call the stuff I'ed mod Frankensteins when I was finished with them lol. I haven't done a crazy one in a long time.
What I use right now for my GPU. XFX AMD Radeon VII
My Cooling method =
NZXT Kraken X62 280mm
NZXT G12 (Personally Modded)
*does not fit with the G12 natively.
Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-3000 PWM 4-PIN (X2)
Noctua NF-A9x14 PWM (X1)
Innovation Cooling IC Graphite Thermal Pad + NT-H1 Thermal Paste
(yes that's right I said it, I combine, I have always done that and have had no problems lol I always get confused looks about it)
MSI AFTERBERNER v4.6.2.15743 Beta 4
IDLE TEMP=27C UNDERLOAD TEMPS=43C (With 8 hour gaming fluctuations included) 47C (with 100% stress testing and no fluctuations)
Fan 35/50% (Idle/Full Load)
1.150V (1150mV)
Power Limit % +99
Core Clock 1900(MHz)
Memory Clock 1176(MHz No Crashes) - 1200(MHz doable however "for me" screen goes blank after about 6 hours) I've seen better clocks from others.
*All tested under 100% load @4K MAX 2 hours Using Kombustor v4.1.5.0.
*I do everything in 4K unless that option is not available.
*I only use Noctua and/or Artic Silver for my Pastes' and Innovative Cooling for Pads and if Liquid Metal, I use Thermal Grizzly (Just my personal preferences).
*I remove pre paste from AIO and replace, add thermal pad, then paste, then GPU. (Sooo....AIO/paste/pad/paste/GPU) Just in case anyone was wondering.
- Yes it sounds crazy but I have been fine for years doing this on GPU's and CPU's and it works for me (especially with these results), do what works for you. -
My Current Build
NZXT H510
Bgears b-PowerMiner 1200W 80Plus Plat PSU
ASRock X570 Taichi
G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB DDR4 3200 (X1)
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X OC'ed to 4.0GHz (on air with stock cooler and paste until I get my AIO) 43C Idle/68C Full Load.
XFX AMD Radeon VII + NZXT G12
NZXT Kraken X62 280mm
Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-3000 PWM 4-PIN (X3)
Noctua NF-F12 iPPC 3000 PWM 4-PIN (X1)
Noctua NF-A9x14 PWM (X1)
Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 2TB (Main drive)
Samsung 860 QVO Series 2.5" 4TB SSD (Secondary drive)
WD 10TB Surveillance (X1)
WD 5TB Black (X2)
WD 2TB Green (X1)
Dear Steve and GN. I was wondering if turning CPU to real time or high etc really does help gaming or multithreaded operations in any way whether it be fps, latency, etc. I sweat that 1% lows or avg fps seem to be higher when I go to real time
9900k@5.0 in my case 2080ti 1080p low 240hz trying for 240fps+ in everything
Seems like it would be easier to make a mask than to manually ball the gpu?
For Ask GN: Apart from the motor or the bearing, what improves case fan performance more? Is it the number of blades, the angle of the blades, the design of the blades, etc.? Is static pressure vs airflow still a thing, or are there fans that have a good balance between the two? Can buyers trust the airflow, static pressure, and noise numbers listed by fan makers and vendors? Thanks GN!
Oh, I'm interested in this one too.
Why doesn't AiO coolers just use standard car coolant? I've used some extremely old new stuff (from Woolco to help date it) to restore a cooler that was completely gunked up. I've left that sitting for around 2 years because I didn't have a use for it/didn't have the proper mounting hardware (only had the LGA 2011 screw plate) but I recently took it and ziptied it to a 3770 and it worked perfectly. Absolutely 0 issues except maybe I underfilled it as it was noisy in some orientations, but that didn't affect performance. Also tried some experiments by cooling the radiator in a bucket of dry iced coolant, which also worked fine.
Pin-to-pad would be stupid-complex to engineer and implement. You're talking about an additional brace along one side with not just contacts for four-pin / three pin fans but also the RGB connectors, which then would make it a miniaturized 8-pin connector.The pads would have to be mounted to the side panel, and the pins would have to be mounted to an otherwise-useless support mechanism which would not permit easy access.
There could be slots in the case body to permit drop-in installation and some tabs with indents to pop the rail in place, giving it _some_ semblance of attachment, _or_ an indented tab on front with a thumbscrew in back ala old-style cases which allowed only eight screws to hold in an optical device (and usually, it was _only_ two of the eight holes anyway) which would provide both a temporary and permanent attachment. But the means to fasten it still has to be engineered into a case. _That's not ever going to happen.
What I would like to see manufacturers of cases do is to have a cutout for the GPU, entirely. We see this with sandwich-style boards where the GPU is side-mounted with riser, so why not purpose that with mesh on a steel panel to draw in cool air from the outside? The GPU heatsink willl still work as intended to spill its hot air out, but the case, allowing for air to come in from outside directly rather than a convoluted 90-degree rotation from top, back or side would be better than in the middle next to other components. It would make for a wider case, but that's what needs to be done to re-introduce side intake.
Sapphire's Pulse RX AMD AIB cards has a very ingenious fan system where only one screw holds it on, with the fan motor assembly on a thin plastic frame. For people who would rather side _exhaust_ with their GPU, Sapphire's partners could easily produce a flipped version which spits the air out directly from the top and draw in from the sides, which would make the GPU function similarly to side-mounted exhaust for the entire system should a user prefer. More video card manufacturers making their fan assemblies easily removable from cooler housings would permit more of an interest in cases with side ventilation, provided people want this, and people _do_ want this, but they're a vocal minority the case manufacturers are not going to heed because the idea is too expansive to manufacturer, and many users... simply don't care about performance.
We've seen that 2018, we've seen that 2019, we're seeing it today. Shame it came to that, but manufacturers need to satisfy the _majority_ of users, and avoid being too niche to remain profitable. You voting with your wallet is irrelevant, and the RUclips tech scene is also partly to blame for this, showing off concepts which choke airflow back in 2018 and people just _eating that up. _Couldn't have enough!_ Also sadly, even though some people in the tech scene _eventually_ made their cries for airflow heard, and cases are being made with airflow in mind thanks to the efforts of every Steve in the scene (people who know will get the joke), the airflow trend is going to last for maybe a year or two before case manufactures cock it up again and block off _all_ of the holes for cost savings, passing it off as for looks. It's only a matter of time.
A few questions on your schedule in one, I hope you can answer at least a few of them.
Why did you stop uploading frequent Ask GN episodes? I think in the last two years there were only 16 or so, while we got almost weekly episodes before that.
When is the popular fans roundup coming that was promised around 2 years ago?
With all of the expensive PSU testing gear you aquired, are we going to get more PSU reviews?
heres some news you may of missed , anyway AMD has quit using or promoting there AMD StoreMi tech, on there site it says this and they are working on something new and better, but if u go to fuzedrive site you can get it for 10 bucks rite now LOL for the full thing idk if its worth it or not but still cool to know that they maybe working on something else
Yes it says
AMD StoreMI storage acceleration software will no longer be available for download after March 31, 2020. An exciting new version, with enhanced features, is planned for release in 2Q20.
Yes, i love storemi for game storage, hopefully the updated software will work better
@@madmax2069 me2 that would be awesome, i bought the promo for 10 bucks anyway for the full thing its not bad at all compared to the limited amd one
"Nervidia" - *grunge music playing in head
If I have a R5 1600 and a 1060, and I have to choose between an upgrade to zen 2 or Turing, which one would be better?
What would happen if someone would overclock with liquid helium/nitrogen without an IHS ?
Daanng Daniel, back at it again with the late (Early) uploads
RE: GPU transplant - Linus and Louis Rossmann did a colab video on doing exactly that.
Did they? I remember it as just resoldering the gpu die, because the solder balls were disconnecting and the ye olde oven trick wasn't a good solution to melt them permanently, that was the lesson why that's a bad idea. Also they got into their conversation they forgot about the gpu and left it under heat for too long and destroyed it.
Hey Steve, in case you want some more info on the Indium sheets, it's nothing specifically made for CPU's but usually used to cool down lasers. It's used as a TIM and it's bassically just a very thing sheet of Indium that gets crushed in between. Because indium has thermal conductivity of 86W/mk and is very soft, with enough preassure it will plastically deform and fill those microscopic gaps.
The perforated sheets exist because since it's 2/3 or 1/2 of the material without the perforations, it takes that much less force to deform them so it might be more doable under a CPU block.
You can get them on ebay and aliexpress, and there are some specialized companies making them.
In my experience CPU and GPU mounting pressures were far too low to get indium foil or even micro-spring/micro-lattice sheets to work adequately sadly. There might be a thicker and more easily deformable product I didn't encounter, as my experience with Indium was somewhat limited and "laser"-focused (ha) on FPGA immersion cooling. A thicker and softer version might better suit the low mount pressures found in consumer hardware better.
Seems like Indium-based sheets require pressures of 60PSI and beyond, while consumer hardware only usually mounts around 30-40PSI. The exponential curve in thermal resistance vs pressure for indium sheets results in intolerably weak performance at that mark.
@@soulofjacobeh On the GPU, since it's the bare naked chips you can't really put more preassure, but on the CPU side on the other hand, with the IHS I think you can get enough preassure (maybe with a plastic washer) on the perforated sheets. I haven't been able to test it yet though.
@@pagaiba3 Yep you're right about the low pressure situation with GPUs. I've been trying to track down some manufacturer specs for AM4 and Intel platforms to see if there's a safe way to get it high enough.
For the CPU I had to test with in the office at the time, I did crank the pressure up, but it was such a low power CPU that I really couldn't use any of the data. I also couldn't measure the pressure I was applying to see how high I got it.
Edit: As an aside, bringing pressure too high on CPUs usually slightly flexes the motherboard. If it doesn't immediately cause issues, it certainly does long term in most cases. Hence why I didn't yolo-test it much.
I notice that on AM4 the mounting pressure is low enough that I don't get superior thermals (vs thermal grease) with even consumer-targeted graphite pads (e.g. IC graphite and Thermal Grizzly's fabric-like one), whereas on Intel Xeon 2000/3000 series the pressure was so high that IC graphite was better than every consumer paste I could test.
I need to try the Indium sheets on that Xeon platform again. Stock mounting pressure on that was ridiculous.
Based on its behavior with the graphite pads, I might be able to substitute the somewhat compressible IC graphite pads in for Indium for short-term testing platforms.
I really want side mounted fans, defintely a superb way to cool hot gpus.
YAY VIDEO TIME!
i did window cases a few times, a full clear one once... never again, way to mucn "i gotta clean that, i can see dust again"
28:16 Top mounted PSU and bottom intake would be a good asthetic and cooling.... well I wouldn't even call it a compromise really; it's just better.
I remember when huge 250mm fans on the side was the trend especially for cheaper cases. I never saw a high end case with them though.
Also they're Binned cards in top for HOF, Kingpin, Lightening.
Nvidia bins them before sending them to any of those people, and keep the best for themselves. So those FE GPU cores are almost always going to be the best.
would zombiemodding epyc make sense for cinebench?
Hey Steve.
Are you down with the thickness??
Thanks Steve! I'll check these places when I visit Taiwan. As you can imagine, my trip is postponed. Right now, you would need to provide documents of granted entry + stay in quarantine for 14 days. Nevermind the fact that most flights are cancelled.
I feel like Steve should find a way to yeet his phone across the room during all his advertisements.
.... why didn't you just say throw? >_
@@MassiveDecks Thank you.
@@MassiveDecks I wanted it to imply a much more ridiculous throw. Not just some average toss.
Toss is calm, throw is aggressive... Right?
@@MassiveDecks but yeet is like an aggressive throw. I dunno, seems like multiple levels: toss -> throw -> yeet -> shot put.
#AskGN
Will you guys ever continue your memory timings explained series? It looks like you only ever did part 1. If so, is there a roadmap for when it might happen or is it just “eventually”?
Thermaltake had great side intake fan case, i still have it! i love this case.Level 10 case i believe is name. it is great case.
Yeah side intake fans do a great job in keeping GPU thermals in check. Have an old Antec three hundred that I bought new years ago. My first case with a side intake
I really appreciate your honesty and knowledge. It’s clear you care and take time with each response and explanation. The pc community owes you for sharing your passion with us
Hi, Gamer Nexus never adressed Apple attempt at revolutionning Desktop design with their Mac Pro 2019, which features many great innovating features in terms of case design. Do you think it will be featured on Gamer Nexus one day ? It would be great to have you testing the thermal performance of all their gimmick. Thanks a lot !
Would love to see you guys use the EVC2 by Elmor to push the Voltage on a 2080 Ti or a Titan RTX. I would be interested to see Turing's scaling with more voltage, that 1.093 voltage limit is annoying on Pascal.
27:37 cube like or deeper cases with the psu in the back panel instead of the bottom shelf, you can have fans on the bottom, Corsair has an itx case like this right now
The hair in this episode is so overwhealming :D
hey, about that 14:53 question. check these guys channel, they do insane gpu reballing and memory swapping
/user/1servicecore
Just ordered an MSI MEG X570 UNIFY Motherboard because it's time to upgrade from my ASRock Z170 OC Formula LGA 1151 Motherboard and next month I'll order a Ryzen 7 3700x to upgrade the i7-6700K. It's not something I made the decision on, but I'm happy the the MSI motherboard is black with no LEDs. They use it as a selling point. So here's the question. Do you think the LED craze is tapering off? For myself it was never anything that attracted me. I never sit and look inside my desktop even though it has glass in the side panel. I would never pay extra for something to have LEDs because for me there's no benefit. I was surprised to see that MSI is proudly proclaiming no LEDs. What do you think?
I am currently using this exact "LIQUID MetalPad" Which I am pretty sure is the product you were talking about. and I can agree, these things are so incredibly thin (feels as thin as gold foil) that there's a good chance that, depending on how you tightened the screws on your cooler, there's noticeable imperfections. You're supposed to switch off your cooling and let the CPU "burn in" for 30+Minutes at at least 70°c for the metal to liquefy and spread out properly. This does not perform any better than standard MX-4 thermal paste. In fact I might have trouble with hot spots on my Ryzen 3900x IHS so this stuff is definitely coming off the next time I change something on my build.
Hi Steve@GN, the gauge and length of the wire causes the resistance. A small gauge wire say 24 and 12" long will have way more resistance than a larger 6 gauge wire 2" long. Also m (milli) ohms is .001 ohms and M (Mega) ohms is 1,000,000 ohms, that is a huge difference. Just in case anyone wants to know. Very informative video, thanks...
14:53 Here in Brazil a know overclocker made a 2080Ti SUPER transplanting a 2080Ti GPU into a 2080 SUPER PCB (with better memory) ruclips.net/video/UqlKrGFmxKY/видео.html