Listening to your commentary evokes a feeling in me of sitting on the bus to or from school as a high school sophomore chatting with one of the high school seniors. It's a very odd feeling as I have not been in school for almost 20 years.
The Empire was technically a constitutional monarchy that only gave up its Senate and shifted to full-on dictatorship thanks to the Rebellion. Prior to the Senate being dismissed by the Emperor, Vader's officers were expressing concerns that holding Princess Leia as a prisoner would generate sympathy for the Rebellion in the Senate. Meanwhile, Leia used her Senate credentials as a way to threaten Vader when his men shanghaied her ship and slaughtered her crew. This means that the Senate still had a strong grip on politics before they were dismissed due to a wartime emergency. If the Rebellion wasn't there to justify more emergency powers, one wonders how Palpatine might have been able to justify dismissing the Senate, especially since, unlike the Republic, which had in its disposal an elite guard of religiously-indoctrinated Jedi Knights and slave army of clone troopers, or the Confederacy, that had an endless army of pre-programmed battle droids, Palpatine's Imperial army and navy gets their manpower from the worlds that the Senate represented. Those soldiers stuck to the program and kept serving even after Palpatine dismissed the Senate *BECAUSE* of the threat that the Rebellion posed to the Empire. But if there was no threat to the Empire, they might've questioned the idea of Palpatine gaining more power and dismissing their senatorial representatives.
The Empire is a constitutional monarchy only if we accept "the Emperor" as a legitimate monarchial title and argue that any decision he makes is within the law, regardless of the Senate's opposition. It can probably be argued in a technical legalistic way, but by the same token we can argue that the Nazis were technically operating under the Weimar Republic's laws the entire time. But yes, clearly the rebellion is a necessary condition for the tightening of control. If these regimes don't have a threat, they need to create one.
@@feralhistorian The Emperor's title was legitimate since it was approved for him by the Senate, and most of his actions were approved of by a wide senate majority; most senators when the Senate was shut down peacefully retired, while other loyal senators just donned jeweled robes and became Imperial Advisors, continuing to talk state matters with the Emperor as if they were still doing their old jobs. Sure, there was a small, but significant resistance voter bloc which sympathized with the Rebels, but they were always outvoted by the Emperor's loyal majority even before the Senate was shut down.
@@HolyknightVader999it's noted that Captain Panaka, Padme's the head of the Naboo Royal Guard and (officially) Padme's chief protector and confidante in her capacity as queen, later became a sector Moff and was an enthusiastic supporter of the Empire to the very last.
What fun new channel I found But I will let you know that the reason they sent the Death Star plans through R2-D2 was because a transmission could’ve been intercepted, and nobody would suspect a small Astro Droid Also, the plot needed to happen, I know a lot of people don’t like hearing that about movies but a plot needs to happen. Otherwise, the Empire gets the plans back and that’s the end. That being said, I am subscribing
Very profound. You clearly explain while minding nuance. Yes, the fiction of STAR WARS is relevant because it shows what the world has learned from the past, right or wrong.
There is one thing that I want to point out, when comparing sources Legends and Canon are completely different things. Especially when you talk about the economics and production of the Imperial fleet. The 25,000 ships count is true but you have to include the Victory-class types into it as well and considering that it was developed and produced during the Clone Wars, it isn't exactly 20 years but even more. The Galactic Empire has a wide reach and in Legends content, reaching for a few million inhabited worlds/systems which make 25k pretty small but acceptable since the Empire also diverted a lot of resources to build the 2 Death Stars, dozens of SSDs and other megaprojects. The 2nd Death Star being much faster due to no more senate to justify the budget.
The 25,000 Star destroyers represents the primary might of the Imperial war machine, but only a fraction of all hull types among the navy which, having to patrol nearly an entire galaxy and policing various worlds, would need massive amounts of smaller capital and support vessels to maintain a proper order of battle.
A few million......Disneyverse Empire had 12 million worlds, Legends Empire had 70 million. ISDs were only 25,000, but that's just for one class of Star Destroyer. Millions of smaller warships left over from the Clone Wars days comprised the majority of the Imperial fleet; ISDs were just there for heavy trouble spots; your average citizen is more likely to see an old Dreadnought-class Heavy Cruiser, an Acclamator, or a Victory-2 than a full-blown Imperial Star Destroyer.
Re: the Imperial economy, the deleted Anchorhead scenes in "A New Hope" have Luke's friend Biggs Darklighter trying to sway Luke towards the Rebellion by telling him, among other things, that the Empire is "starting to nationalize commerce in the central systems," so that might be a clue as to how Lucas was envisioning the Empire's economy.
I was working for USAF when we had the JSF flyoff. As soon as I discovered that the USAF had nicknamed the Boeing aircraft "Monica" I knew it was doomed.
Stumbled upon this channel from the algorithm and watched this great take on the comparisons of the Galactic Empire and real-world examples. Good follow up would be how the ineptness of the New Republic shown in Mandalorian and Ahsoka and their inability to manage internal or external threats (Warlords from the Imperial Remnant) would eventually lead to the degradation of their ability to maintain order and give rise to a stronger regime resembling a true theocracy, with Palpatine becoming the sole ruler with a God-King complex.
I'd argue that the Empire draws more on Japan and pre-World War Prussia in terms of its sartorial influences, while Palpatine's rise to power seems to have been at least partly inspired by the creation of the post-9/11 American Surveillance State (Lucas has mentioned in interviews that Palpatine's immediate predecessor, Finis Valorum, was modeled on Bill Clinton, and one of his favourite EU authors, James Luceno, provided Coruscant with a "Department of HomeWORLD Security" in the novel "Labyrinth of Evil," which sets the stage for the events of "Revenge of the Sith). That said, I'm very much appreciating this analysis (having encountered far too many zealots throwing the term "fascist" around as a generic catch-all, even in the context of the Galaxy Far, Far Away). 👍
The Empire definitely draws on Japanese and Prussian sources heavily. Some of John Mollo's early Imperial uniform sketches show the Prussian and WW1-era influence evolve into the final design. I seem to recall reading an interview many years ago where he and/or Lucas talked about that specifically.
@@itsblitz4437 you can also finger Abraham Lincolm as a source of inspiration, given that Palps rises to power on the back of secession crisis that pits a "Confederacy" against a "Grand Army of the Republic." 👍
If they would just learn to say fascistic instead or what they really mean being authoritarianism. But these are the same people who throw racist out when upset with a European having an issue with Islam
What astounds me is just how quickly and thoroughly the myth of "right-wing fascism" was accepted after WW2 - even among conservatives, who (one would think) should have given full-throated resistance to the idea. Perhaps that points to a bit of accidental historical accuracy in Star Wars, as within a generation Jedi go from popular heroes, to popular villains, to _obscure myth_ - even, apparently, among people who had direct contact with them before and during the Clone Wars.
It may be because that "right wing fascism" was perfectly obvious to those that lived through the 30's and 40's, and only now are we losing the context they saw. The interwar fascists were popularist parties that attracted a wide range of people feeling abandoned by the current power structures and then.... pretty much allied with the rich and powerful and current state structures to continue business as usual, as long as the heads of the party got to do their grift. Parts of this video cover exactly that. So a fascist movement was (and is) more attractive to the current right wing. (I'm taking right wing to mean 'conservative wealthy' rather than 'individual rights')
Lots of this had to do with WW2. The west had to depict the USSR who were on our side as part of "the good guys" while Facism and National Socialism were the "bad guys" so Communism and Facism can't both be oddshoots of the same ideology because that's just logic.
@@ivanthemadvandal8435Fascism and communism just aren’t “oddshoots” (or offshoots) of the same ideology. Fascism and liberalism are offshoots of the same ideology and they’re related through their shared commitment to private property and thus capitalism. Fascism is the populist result of degenerate capitalist liberal democracy when the capitalist ruling class makes an anti-liberal democratic populist appeal to racial or ethnic unity to divide the working class to prevent a socialist revolution and retain their property and privelege by promoting a violent purge of marginal groups and intellectuals etc. Fascists might adopt socialist rhetoric but they’re never economic socialists and suppress economic egalitarianism, trade unions and communists viciously since their economical redistribution is antithetical to the fascist hierarchical principles. This guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Or if he does he’s adopting the typical deceptive liberal rhetoric that seeks falsely to identify fascism and communism as ideologically related via “authoritarianism”. That’s imperialist capitalist propaganda. Fascism is a natural offshoot of capitalism in a liberal democracy and the concentration of wealth radicalizes the population and the ruling class capitalists adopt fascism to forestall the socialist revolution.
@@ivanthemadvandal8435There is little room for class in fascism because everyone is supposed to be in the same, national volk like a big happy family. Class is dangerously close to internationalism.
Great analysis. Also, there's no way that's not Spearfish SD behind you. From one South Dakotan to another, I admire how you embody the values of Western South Dakota
hoho! dude this is awesome, you actually are acknowledging socialism and fascism are basically like cousins. In a Star Wars video of all things, thank you. This is genuinely what i want people to talk about fascism as it actually is and you are doing so. Thanks.
I think you are on point with saying that the Galactic Republic isn't really comparable to Weimar. Prequels tell a story much older than 20th century totalitarianism - the transformation of what was left of a decaying ancien regime into a more modern, centralised and administrative state. Palpatine is more like Napoleon or Cromwell, especially when you consider that his rule ends in a restoration of 'the old', now heavily modernised and more efficient in exercising power: The New Republic somewhat resembles France after the Congress of Vienna. Another comparison could be drawn between Palpatine's New Order and Augustus' Pax Romana, with the exception that Octavian wasn't the secret mastermind behind everything that happened in the 1st century BC. PS. Try comparing Umberto's points to Stalin's policies, it produces fun results and puts his 'definition' even more in question.
"Fascism: often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition." Loved "Darth Marx"
I know you want to keep a line between the fascism of Italy & Germany and the socialism of Russia & others... but I'm reminded of what Mikhail Bakunin said; "We are convinced that liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; and that socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality."
One day soon I hope you do an analysis of Robocop. And when you do, I hope you comment on your resemblance to the actor Paul McCrane. He's the one who got splattered when he got hit by a car after being doused in toxic waste. I mean that sincerely. I do see a strong resemblance when it comes to hair and cheekbone structure. You do look a bit taller though.
It will be interesting to hear take on it and what points you bring up; The decline of the American manufacturing economy, Reagan era crime policy, the militarization of the police@@feralhistorian
Matt: A point I think you gloss over too quickly is that 98% of the times that Fascism is used as a term in the 21st C it is used as a synonym for totalitarianism, authoritarianism or even just boot on the throatism, with dashed of assorted bigotries thrown in. This is why the old CSA, apartheid S. Africa, Israel, Saddam era Iraq, and every dictatorship not explicitly Marxist nor theocratic, is dubbed small F fascist. Of course, by that criteria Stalin, Mao, Ho, Che, as well as the Ayatollahs, Saudis were as fascist as Franco, or Tito, for that matter. Hell, one could call the Young Turks fascists by this criteria, I point this out because of that Reaganist nugget of (lol) wisdom: How things look (or sound, in this case) is more important than how they are. The very failure of folks to define Fascism (cap F) is precisely why fascism (small f) is ubiquitous in word and world.
I'm dropping a comment here to remind myself to actually reply later. You're not wrong but you're missing an important chunk, important enough that I think it has to be added.
Many incorrectly call militarism fascism. Others say any abuse of government power is fascism. I wish he had chosen a definition such as from Merriam Webster or the OED and played a foundation with that discussion. But he does get around to a definition at the 9 minute mark.
Its basically ends justify the means - but only if we like the society in question, we can excuse it as empire/nation building, or acting in defence. But if we dont like the society in question then we have all sorts of "ism" names to throw at them.
Thanks for referencing Bad Batch and Rebels. Just watched Star Wars in chronological order, awesome and it's cool to see even Rebels expand on the lore, especially in s3 and s4 when Thrawn enters the show you get more sociological and economical aspects of the lore come to the front. Great video.
Yea, like how LBJ dissolved Congress and declared himself Emperor and sent the army to appoint imperial governors in the States in response to the ongoing civil war. Dude. The Vietnam War was stupid, and I'm sure Lucas wasn't a fan, but the Empire did not resemble 1960s U.S.
@bozimmerman ....Did you not know you can just look up the interviews of Lucas himself? The ones where he makes the comparison? You don't need to make stuff up.
In Nazi, Germany could not own property unless the party said you could and thus the party could revoke your property at any time. Hitler said why do I need to socialize the company when I've socialized the people in the company?
The party starts to crack down hard on certain classes of people. Germany is not a place of evenly spread suppression. It's more about how you fit into their race model. Are you a real German, a European race suitable for second class status or pure untermench slave labour.
Lucas had said at one time that he had based Palpatine on Hitler than he changed it to Richard Nixon. First off Nixon was not a dictator. He didn't create. Socialism while he was president. Lucas was also believed to have been inspired by the Empire being Hollywood and his struggle to make it as a filmmaker through the film industry. Lucas based Anakin on. Himself and his fight to overcome the fascism of Hollywood. Even Padme was based on his relationship with his wife Marcia. He left Marcia to join the Hollywood elite. Which was the dark side
@@alonsocarminas1334 yeah he does. At one time he based the force on God next minute he says midi chlorians. First Luke has no twin sister next minute he does. First Leia is with her mother her real mother. Next she dies giving birth.
George Lucas is on record saying The Empire took the role of the US in RotJ, with the (shudder) Ewoks were the Viet Cong, speaking to the pattern of interference in the form of confected coups, invasions etc when a state looks to flourish.
Interesting, I came to many same conclusions when trying to understand modern the seeming contradictions of modern China having billionaires and "private" companies. Then I came across TIK, and then you and you both filled in some gaps that i knew were there but hadn't really looked that deeply into. Thanks
You have to be careful about using weapons manufacturing as evidence of a mixed economy as even the US didn't go full free market for weapons until the 1960s. Prior to that point we followed a form of the arsenal system. From their establishment under George Washington the arsenals created standards for US military equipment and mass produced them when needed. If the arsenals couldn't make enough they would share copies of the technical data package with contracted private companies to produce even more. The US has always been open to independent inventors and private companies submitting designs for new weapons, but only those contracted by the government to do so would mass produce them for the government. By the turn of the 20th century the the arsenals definitely didn't have the capacity to produce enough of anything during wartime so all mass production was contracted out, but the arsenals were still responsible for documenting designs and monitoring the producers' quality control. The last arsenal officially ceased operations in 1968 but there are still echoes. To this day the government will sometimes contract one company to build another company's design. FN Herstal makes most of the military's M4s and M16s because they make them both cheaper and better than Colt, who owns the design. Spare parts for the rifle are made by dozens of companies, whoever shows up with the best price, with acceptable quality control, and probably buys the right Pentagon officer the nicest dinner. New stuff is usually made by the company who owns the design (look up Sig Sauer) but it's not a guarantee that they will always be the one who makes it for the government.
Yes - and the arsenals still exist, manufacturing key components like explosive materials (basically gunpowder) and cannon barrels: crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN12026/2
There will definitely be more on that. I'm working on a video now that talks about it in broad strokes. When I started the channel I had a plan to do an animated series getting into detail on key aspects of it, trying to make the scholarship accessible. Got sidetracked, but that's coming back around a bit further out.
That last point about chain codes is relevant to Soviet history as well: they replaced the institutions, but a lot of the Tsarist policies and perspectives remained and still do despite the current ex-kgb thugs literally helping sell off their own communist regime. The capital and central government must still be in Moscow, the dominant language must still be Russian, the 'natural borders' must stretch between the Baltic Sea, Black Sea, Caucaus Mountains and Pacific Ocean, any neighbour not in explicit alliance to Moscow must be treated as a hostile nation, any neighbouring 'hostiles' are brainwashed or couped governments oppressing a pro Moscow populace, all those that speak Russian go to Russian Orthodox Church or join a Russian involved organisation must owe its loyalty to Moscow and need its physical 'protection' or are brainwashed traitors. The paranoid totalitarianism sadly seems to have been unerring for centuries. While western europe was catching up with Italian renaissance, Muscovy was inventing modern secret police
In an account of the US wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, I read something that I found interesting. Many US service members, all of whom were raised watching Star Wars, concluded that their side more resembled the Empire while the people they were fighting more resembled the Rebellion.
How can you tell fascism? Look at the gatherings of troops in StarWars or Man in the High Castle. If you’ve got thousands of troops, planes, tanks at-at s and can get them to line up THAT precisely and perfectly, you’re dealing with fascism.
We have a phrase in the south, indicating two things are clearly different but are so similar there’s not much difference- ‘they’re kissin cousins.’ Seems to be a good descriptor of the differences in the various forms of fascism/socialism/communism- kissin cousins.
RE: Third Way Economics Recommended book on this topic as it relates to NAZI Germany: The Vampire Economy Also, a fun summary that describes the difference between Socialist and Fascist economics: Why own the farm when you already own the farmer?
It's still up (I linked it in the newer video for reference) but it's unlisted. Partly because I consider it outdated and partly because I got tired of getting comments and messages from angry Trekkies thinking I said the Federation was fascist. But the topic will be revisited before long, addressing and building on a lot of points that were raised on that first video.
i was under the impression that socialism was when the workers owned the means of production, and not necessarily tied to the presence of a command economy?
It seems to always come down to theory vs practice. The workers owning the means of production sounds great, everyone in the factory enjoying the fruits of their labor in a fair way. But then it ends up being "The Workers" as an abstract collective idea, with the State managing the means of production as they see fit and the actual individual workers still employees working for a wage. "Owning" the means of production only in an abstract, aspirational way. I've come to the conclusion that most arguments about what socialism is stem from one person arguing theory and the other arguing practical examples without any effort to find out how to make the two things fit together.
@@feralhistorian well, if what you're concerned about is practice, there is actually an example of socialism that's out there even in America, even today - worker's co-ops. I'd define those as being socialist, as they're owned and controlled by their workers, by definition. And while they currently only make up a very small portion of any given economy, in places where they do exist, they even seem to do rather well for themselves. If we were to put legislation in place to make it easier to form them, or if you're feeling extreme, to make traditional corporations illegal, I don't think it would solve all of the problems of capitalism - specifically there would likely still be room for consumer-rights issues - but I do think it would be better than what we currently have. Also, thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my comment, it really feels nice to have a genuine discussion with someone who disagrees with you.
I wouldn't call it fascist. Mostly because it isn't totalitarian. There is opposition media, there are opposition political parties that hold spots in an elected legislature that doesn't always go along with Putin's plans. The Russian economy is also mostly structured along European neo-liberal forms. Private companies often have ties to government officials (the same is true in the US) but so far there hasn't been a unified state effort to direct private industry to serve government policy. Though that's a murky area that people can argue about for days. That said, it's definitely authoritarian and is working very hard on building up a national myth of a Greater Russia.
@@feralhistorianRussia today is a neoliberal market economy where you can keep little individual freedoms as long as you keep your head down. The other parties in the duma are allowed to go on because they form no effective alternative. If they were, they would rapidly have shared cells with Navalnyj.
Hey I like your cool videos but can I have a request you upload talking about akame ga kill lore the general (sm stirling and david drake) lore warhammer 40k lore mutant chronicles lore matrix lore terminator lore xeelee sequence etcetera
Some of those are already being worked on and should be up in the short-term. I'm having some discussions about Warhammer, so that might happen but not real soon. I want to get it right.
All the empire/sith symbols are six sided, like the star of david. Also when vader cuts off luke's hand it's a metaphor for the covenant. That's why when luke cuts off vader's hand in return of the jedi and sees the robotic arm he realizes he's on the path to the dark side. This is why disney makes terrible star wars movies and destroyed luke, han, and leia.
Wolk?.... Volk! We say it almost like the english speaking say folk. But with more bravado in the o. So like fOlk! With that you are almost there, ja. Greetings, your hilfreicher German 👍🏻
Certainly a fair criticism. But I figured since neither are entirely consistent, I'd just treat it as wildly conflicting reports for the purpose of this discussion.
THE GALACTIC EMPIRE WASN‘T FASCIST!!!! The thing is the Empire was a totalitärian Monarchy and fascism laid down by its original creators Mussolini and his gang is anti monarchy. Because the idea was that like in communism the people get the power, through one strong leader. Also in Fascim things like the rule of law exist more or less, dependend on the leader.
Sure, it's headed by an "Emperor" but there's no hereditary line, no system of patronage among Noble Houses, no body of tradition to base a monarchy on. We can call it a monarchy solely because Palpatine wanted to be called "Emperor" instead of President, First Consul, or Grand Poobah. And to be fair, Fascist Italy was a monarchy more so than the Galactic Empire. Mussolini did answer to the King.
@@feralhistorian Mussolini despiced Emmanuel, but the Problem was he the King was too popular to kill, but i actually get your point. However you shouldn’t forget that the sith in general had kinda the same patronage sytem like acient romans were they would adopt an heir instead of making one, who is skilled, or in the sith way teach an apprentice who is powerfull.
I think the nuance here is that Lucas modelled the Galactic Empire's political titles from the Dune series. Emperor Padishah influenced Emperor Palpatine. While Padishah had a true monarchial lineage, Palpatine called the new government an Empire and would by extension, assume the title Emperor.
Yes, great point. Which also brings to mind the Napoleon parallels. Both Bonaparte and Palpatine probably would have saved themselves some grief by ruling like emperors but calling themselves something else. No policy or organizational change, just different labeling.
Is it? Is that common to the entire right wing? After all, broad secrions of right wing want more law and order, more police, etc. That is very much government theory in peoples lives.
Listening to your commentary evokes a feeling in me of sitting on the bus to or from school as a high school sophomore chatting with one of the high school seniors.
It's a very odd feeling as I have not been in school for almost 20 years.
The Empire was technically a constitutional monarchy that only gave up its Senate and shifted to full-on dictatorship thanks to the Rebellion. Prior to the Senate being dismissed by the Emperor, Vader's officers were expressing concerns that holding Princess Leia as a prisoner would generate sympathy for the Rebellion in the Senate. Meanwhile, Leia used her Senate credentials as a way to threaten Vader when his men shanghaied her ship and slaughtered her crew. This means that the Senate still had a strong grip on politics before they were dismissed due to a wartime emergency.
If the Rebellion wasn't there to justify more emergency powers, one wonders how Palpatine might have been able to justify dismissing the Senate, especially since, unlike the Republic, which had in its disposal an elite guard of religiously-indoctrinated Jedi Knights and slave army of clone troopers, or the Confederacy, that had an endless army of pre-programmed battle droids, Palpatine's Imperial army and navy gets their manpower from the worlds that the Senate represented. Those soldiers stuck to the program and kept serving even after Palpatine dismissed the Senate *BECAUSE* of the threat that the Rebellion posed to the Empire. But if there was no threat to the Empire, they might've questioned the idea of Palpatine gaining more power and dismissing their senatorial representatives.
The Empire is a constitutional monarchy only if we accept "the Emperor" as a legitimate monarchial title and argue that any decision he makes is within the law, regardless of the Senate's opposition. It can probably be argued in a technical legalistic way, but by the same token we can argue that the Nazis were technically operating under the Weimar Republic's laws the entire time.
But yes, clearly the rebellion is a necessary condition for the tightening of control. If these regimes don't have a threat, they need to create one.
@@feralhistorian The Emperor's title was legitimate since it was approved for him by the Senate, and most of his actions were approved of by a wide senate majority; most senators when the Senate was shut down peacefully retired, while other loyal senators just donned jeweled robes and became Imperial Advisors, continuing to talk state matters with the Emperor as if they were still doing their old jobs. Sure, there was a small, but significant resistance voter bloc which sympathized with the Rebels, but they were always outvoted by the Emperor's loyal majority even before the Senate was shut down.
@@HolyknightVader999it's noted that Captain Panaka, Padme's the head of the Naboo Royal Guard and (officially) Padme's chief protector and confidante in her capacity as queen, later became a sector Moff and was an enthusiastic supporter of the Empire to the very last.
I mean, they even got Hugh Quarshie back at some point to do a photo-shoot with him in an Imperial uniform.
@@CanadianPale Exactly. People who saw the weakness of the old Republic supported the Empire.
Curse the algorithm for not recommending this channel's content to me sooner!
What fun new channel I found
But I will let you know that the reason they sent the Death Star plans through R2-D2 was because a transmission could’ve been intercepted, and nobody would suspect a small Astro Droid
Also, the plot needed to happen, I know a lot of people don’t like hearing that about movies but a plot needs to happen. Otherwise, the Empire gets the plans back and that’s the end.
That being said, I am subscribing
Yes, "so the movie can happen" is the real reason for most of this stuff.
Very profound. You clearly explain while minding nuance. Yes, the fiction of STAR WARS is relevant because it shows what the world has learned from the past, right or wrong.
There is one thing that I want to point out, when comparing sources Legends and Canon are completely different things. Especially when you talk about the economics and production of the Imperial fleet.
The 25,000 ships count is true but you have to include the Victory-class types into it as well and considering that it was developed and produced during the Clone Wars, it isn't exactly 20 years but even more.
The Galactic Empire has a wide reach and in Legends content, reaching for a few million inhabited worlds/systems which make 25k pretty small but acceptable since the Empire also diverted a lot of resources to build the 2 Death Stars, dozens of SSDs and other megaprojects. The 2nd Death Star being much faster due to no more senate to justify the budget.
The 25,000 Star destroyers represents the primary might of the Imperial war machine, but only a fraction of all hull types among the navy which, having to patrol nearly an entire galaxy and policing various worlds, would need massive amounts of smaller capital and support vessels to maintain a proper order of battle.
A few million......Disneyverse Empire had 12 million worlds, Legends Empire had 70 million. ISDs were only 25,000, but that's just for one class of Star Destroyer. Millions of smaller warships left over from the Clone Wars days comprised the majority of the Imperial fleet; ISDs were just there for heavy trouble spots; your average citizen is more likely to see an old Dreadnought-class Heavy Cruiser, an Acclamator, or a Victory-2 than a full-blown Imperial Star Destroyer.
Re: the Imperial economy, the deleted Anchorhead scenes in "A New Hope" have Luke's friend Biggs Darklighter trying to sway Luke towards the Rebellion by telling him, among other things, that the Empire is "starting to nationalize commerce in the central systems," so that might be a clue as to how Lucas was envisioning the Empire's economy.
Amazing analysis. Clear thoughts, well structured, and truly independent. Keep making these videos.
I was working for USAF when we had the JSF flyoff. As soon as I discovered that the USAF had nicknamed the Boeing aircraft "Monica" I knew it was doomed.
Wow. Impressive expose on not only the Galactic Empire but also 20th century political theory and history. Well done sir.
Stumbled upon this channel from the algorithm and watched this great take on the comparisons of the Galactic Empire and real-world examples. Good follow up would be how the ineptness of the New Republic shown in Mandalorian and Ahsoka and their inability to manage internal or external threats (Warlords from the Imperial Remnant) would eventually lead to the degradation of their ability to maintain order and give rise to a stronger regime resembling a true theocracy, with Palpatine becoming the sole ruler with a God-King complex.
I'm working on something along those lines. They've made the New Republic remarkably inept.
@@feralhistorianyou should read the Legends books like the Thrawn Trilogy, X-Wing novels and “Darth Plagueis”
I'd argue that the Empire draws more on Japan and pre-World War Prussia in terms of its sartorial influences, while Palpatine's rise to power seems to have been at least partly inspired by the creation of the post-9/11 American Surveillance State (Lucas has mentioned in interviews that Palpatine's immediate predecessor, Finis Valorum, was modeled on Bill Clinton, and one of his favourite EU authors, James Luceno, provided Coruscant with a "Department of HomeWORLD Security" in the novel "Labyrinth of Evil," which sets the stage for the events of "Revenge of the Sith). That said, I'm very much appreciating this analysis (having encountered far too many zealots throwing the term "fascist" around as a generic catch-all, even in the context of the Galaxy Far, Far Away). 👍
The Empire definitely draws on Japanese and Prussian sources heavily. Some of John Mollo's early Imperial uniform sketches show the Prussian and WW1-era influence evolve into the final design. I seem to recall reading an interview many years ago where he and/or Lucas talked about that specifically.
Palpatine was model also after Napoleon Bonaparte and of course Julius Caesar.
@@itsblitz4437 you can also finger Abraham Lincolm as a source of inspiration, given that Palps rises to power on the back of secession crisis that pits a "Confederacy" against a "Grand Army of the Republic." 👍
If they would just learn to say fascistic instead or what they really mean being authoritarianism. But these are the same people who throw racist out when upset with a European having an issue with Islam
The first star wars movie was very loosely based based on the the fall of the Roman republic , with the Emperor taking over the senate.
BEAUTIFUL VIDEO. My anarchist heart soars to hear such an erudite analysis & steel-manning of valid opposing points. Well done!
What astounds me is just how quickly and thoroughly the myth of "right-wing fascism" was accepted after WW2 - even among conservatives, who (one would think) should have given full-throated resistance to the idea.
Perhaps that points to a bit of accidental historical accuracy in Star Wars, as within a generation Jedi go from popular heroes, to popular villains, to _obscure myth_ - even, apparently, among people who had direct contact with them before and during the Clone Wars.
It may be because that "right wing fascism" was perfectly obvious to those that lived through the 30's and 40's, and only now are we losing the context they saw. The interwar fascists were popularist parties that attracted a wide range of people feeling abandoned by the current power structures and then.... pretty much allied with the rich and powerful and current state structures to continue business as usual, as long as the heads of the party got to do their grift. Parts of this video cover exactly that. So a fascist movement was (and is) more attractive to the current right wing. (I'm taking right wing to mean 'conservative wealthy' rather than 'individual rights')
It's because people are addicted to the "political spectrum" visual AND symmetry
Lots of this had to do with WW2. The west had to depict the USSR who were on our side as part of "the good guys" while Facism and National Socialism were the "bad guys" so Communism and Facism can't both be oddshoots of the same ideology because that's just logic.
@@ivanthemadvandal8435Fascism and communism just aren’t “oddshoots” (or offshoots) of the same ideology. Fascism and liberalism are offshoots of the same ideology and they’re related through their shared commitment to private property and thus capitalism. Fascism is the populist result of degenerate capitalist liberal democracy when the capitalist ruling class makes an anti-liberal democratic populist appeal to racial or ethnic unity to divide the working class to prevent a socialist revolution and retain their property and privelege by promoting a violent purge of marginal groups and intellectuals etc.
Fascists might adopt socialist rhetoric but they’re never economic socialists and suppress economic egalitarianism, trade unions and communists viciously since their economical redistribution is antithetical to the fascist hierarchical principles.
This guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Or if he does he’s adopting the typical deceptive liberal rhetoric that seeks falsely to identify fascism and communism as ideologically related via “authoritarianism”. That’s imperialist capitalist propaganda. Fascism is a natural offshoot of capitalism in a liberal democracy and the concentration of wealth radicalizes the population and the ruling class capitalists adopt fascism to forestall the socialist revolution.
@@ivanthemadvandal8435There is little room for class in fascism because everyone is supposed to be in the same, national volk like a big happy family. Class is dangerously close to internationalism.
Great analysis. Also, there's no way that's not Spearfish SD behind you. From one South Dakotan to another, I admire how you embody the values of Western South Dakota
Indeed it is Spearfish. I'm not from SD originally, but I really like it here.
Thanks for your content. I just happened to find one of your videos. These are outstanding, both for entertainment as well as educational.
Third Economic way - I believe we call this "Public-Private Partnership" now.
hoho! dude this is awesome, you actually are acknowledging socialism and fascism are basically like cousins. In a Star Wars video of all things, thank you. This is genuinely what i want people to talk about fascism as it actually is and you are doing so. Thanks.
Capitalism and fascism are brothers. If you don't realise yet, just wait a little longer.
I think you are on point with saying that the Galactic Republic isn't really comparable to Weimar. Prequels tell a story much older than 20th century totalitarianism - the transformation of what was left of a decaying ancien regime into a more modern, centralised and administrative state. Palpatine is more like Napoleon or Cromwell, especially when you consider that his rule ends in a restoration of 'the old', now heavily modernised and more efficient in exercising power: The New Republic somewhat resembles France after the Congress of Vienna. Another comparison could be drawn between Palpatine's New Order and Augustus' Pax Romana, with the exception that Octavian wasn't the secret mastermind behind everything that happened in the 1st century BC.
PS. Try comparing Umberto's points to Stalin's policies, it produces fun results and puts his 'definition' even more in question.
SVT ftw germans were not afraid to use what worked. Another fabulous video.
"Fascism: often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition."
Loved "Darth Marx"
Lovely town in background
I know you want to keep a line between the fascism of Italy & Germany and the socialism of Russia & others... but I'm reminded of what Mikhail Bakunin said;
"We are convinced that liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; and that socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality."
Star wars was basically the simplified story of ancient Rome . the Empire dissolving the senate, the fall of republic . It's not that hard to miss.
One day soon I hope you do an analysis of Robocop. And when you do, I hope you comment on your resemblance to the actor Paul McCrane. He's the one who got splattered when he got hit by a car after being doused in toxic waste. I mean that sincerely. I do see a strong resemblance when it comes to hair and cheekbone structure. You do look a bit taller though.
I've been meaning to cover Robocop for awhile. I need to up the priority on it I think.
It will be interesting to hear take on it and what points you bring up; The decline of the American manufacturing economy, Reagan era crime policy, the militarization of the police@@feralhistorian
Matt:
A point I think you gloss over too quickly is that 98% of the times that Fascism is used as a term in the 21st C it is used as a synonym for totalitarianism, authoritarianism or even just boot on the throatism, with dashed of assorted bigotries thrown in.
This is why the old CSA, apartheid S. Africa, Israel, Saddam era Iraq, and every dictatorship not explicitly Marxist nor theocratic, is dubbed small F fascist.
Of course, by that criteria Stalin, Mao, Ho, Che, as well as the Ayatollahs, Saudis were as fascist as Franco, or Tito, for that matter. Hell, one could call the Young Turks fascists by this criteria,
I point this out because of that Reaganist nugget of (lol) wisdom: How things look (or sound, in this case) is more important than how they are.
The very failure of folks to define Fascism (cap F) is precisely why fascism (small f) is ubiquitous in word and world.
I'm dropping a comment here to remind myself to actually reply later. You're not wrong but you're missing an important chunk, important enough that I think it has to be added.
Many incorrectly call militarism fascism.
Others say any abuse of government power is fascism.
I wish he had chosen a definition such as from Merriam Webster or the OED and played a foundation with that discussion.
But he does get around to a definition at the 9 minute mark.
You forgot imperial Japan.
Its basically ends justify the means - but only if we like the society in question, we can excuse it as empire/nation building, or acting in defence.
But if we dont like the society in question then we have all sorts of "ism" names to throw at them.
These hiking backdrops... You are the Peter Zeihan of film critic historians 😸
Thanks for referencing Bad Batch and Rebels. Just watched Star Wars in chronological order, awesome and it's cool to see even Rebels expand on the lore, especially in s3 and s4 when Thrawn enters the show you get more sociological and economical aspects of the lore come to the front. Great video.
The Empire was partially meant to represent the USA during the Vietnam War. Lucas was very against ideas of American Imperialism.
Lucas was also favorable towards the Soviet Union and was in favor of a despot ruling the US.
Yea, like how LBJ dissolved Congress and declared himself Emperor and sent the army to appoint imperial governors in the States in response to the ongoing civil war.
Dude. The Vietnam War was stupid, and I'm sure Lucas wasn't a fan, but the Empire did not resemble 1960s U.S.
@bozimmerman ....Did you not know you can just look up the interviews of Lucas himself? The ones where he makes the comparison? You don't need to make stuff up.
@@umbraemilitos Which ones? Are you sure you just didn't took Quinton Reviews' argument
@@enriquealvarado9938 Who? I don't know who that is. Just look up George Lucas' interviews.
In Nazi, Germany could not own property unless the party said you could and thus the party could revoke your property at any time. Hitler said why do I need to socialize the company when I've socialized the people in the company?
The party starts to crack down hard on certain classes of people. Germany is not a place of evenly spread suppression.
It's more about how you fit into their race model. Are you a real German, a European race suitable for second class status or pure untermench slave labour.
I am really enjoying this channel. I only just discovered it today.
Lucas had said at one time that he had based Palpatine on Hitler than he changed it to Richard Nixon. First off Nixon was not a dictator. He didn't create. Socialism while he was president. Lucas was also believed to have been inspired by the Empire being Hollywood and his struggle to make it as a filmmaker through the film industry. Lucas based Anakin on. Himself and his fight to overcome the fascism of Hollywood. Even Padme was based on his relationship with his wife Marcia. He left Marcia to join the Hollywood elite. Which was the dark side
Except Lucas "changes" A LOT!!! 😵💫😵💫😵💫
@@alonsocarminas1334 yeah he does. At one time he based the force on God next minute he says midi chlorians. First Luke has no twin sister next minute he does. First Leia is with her mother her real mother. Next she dies giving birth.
George Lucas is on record saying The Empire took the role of the US in RotJ, with the (shudder) Ewoks were the Viet Cong, speaking to the pattern of interference in the form of confected coups, invasions etc when a state looks to flourish.
Interesting, I came to many same conclusions when trying to understand modern the seeming contradictions of modern China having billionaires and "private" companies. Then I came across TIK, and then you and you both filled in some gaps that i knew were there but hadn't really looked that deeply into.
Thanks
State capitalism
Right now, China is a hybrid. The party wants to shed a bunch of their old state companies, I think there is a bit of regional politicking about it.
You have to be careful about using weapons manufacturing as evidence of a mixed economy as even the US didn't go full free market for weapons until the 1960s. Prior to that point we followed a form of the arsenal system. From their establishment under George Washington the arsenals created standards for US military equipment and mass produced them when needed. If the arsenals couldn't make enough they would share copies of the technical data package with contracted private companies to produce even more. The US has always been open to independent inventors and private companies submitting designs for new weapons, but only those contracted by the government to do so would mass produce them for the government.
By the turn of the 20th century the the arsenals definitely didn't have the capacity to produce enough of anything during wartime so all mass production was contracted out, but the arsenals were still responsible for documenting designs and monitoring the producers' quality control. The last arsenal officially ceased operations in 1968 but there are still echoes. To this day the government will sometimes contract one company to build another company's design. FN Herstal makes most of the military's M4s and M16s because they make them both cheaper and better than Colt, who owns the design. Spare parts for the rifle are made by dozens of companies, whoever shows up with the best price, with acceptable quality control, and probably buys the right Pentagon officer the nicest dinner. New stuff is usually made by the company who owns the design (look up Sig Sauer) but it's not a guarantee that they will always be the one who makes it for the government.
Yes - and the arsenals still exist, manufacturing key components like explosive materials (basically gunpowder) and cannon barrels: crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN12026/2
Man i'd really appreciate a video on pre-war America and the leviathan that we live in today how did America synthesized with Nazi Germany.
There will definitely be more on that. I'm working on a video now that talks about it in broad strokes. When I started the channel I had a plan to do an animated series getting into detail on key aspects of it, trying to make the scholarship accessible. Got sidetracked, but that's coming back around a bit further out.
@@feralhistorian Thank you for your response, I cannot wait to see that video.
That last point about chain codes is relevant to Soviet history as well: they replaced the institutions, but a lot of the Tsarist policies and perspectives remained and still do despite the current ex-kgb thugs literally helping sell off their own communist regime.
The capital and central government must still be in Moscow, the dominant language must still be Russian, the 'natural borders' must stretch between the Baltic Sea, Black Sea, Caucaus Mountains and Pacific Ocean, any neighbour not in explicit alliance to Moscow must be treated as a hostile nation, any neighbouring 'hostiles' are brainwashed or couped governments oppressing a pro Moscow populace, all those that speak Russian go to Russian Orthodox Church or join a Russian involved organisation must owe its loyalty to Moscow and need its physical 'protection' or are brainwashed traitors.
The paranoid totalitarianism sadly seems to have been unerring for centuries. While western europe was catching up with Italian renaissance, Muscovy was inventing modern secret police
Bits of the old regime finding jobs with the new regime is a recurring thing.
In an account of the US wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, I read something that I found interesting. Many US service members, all of whom were raised watching Star Wars, concluded that their side more resembled the Empire while the people they were fighting more resembled the Rebellion.
How can you tell fascism? Look at the gatherings of troops in StarWars or Man in the High Castle. If you’ve got thousands of troops, planes, tanks at-at s and can get them to line up THAT precisely and perfectly, you’re dealing with fascism.
We have a phrase in the south, indicating two things are clearly different but are so similar there’s not much difference- ‘they’re kissin cousins.’ Seems to be a good descriptor of the differences in the various forms of fascism/socialism/communism- kissin cousins.
In today's vernacular "fascist" just means "not communist."
Orwell called Franco the F word, and he went to fight in Spain against them. If we disagree, we can always call him inconsistent.
You seem to upload the moment I am about to go to sleep. At least we have a lengthy video detailing your definition of fascism, I presume.
A more detailed one to be specific.
...and pray I don't alter it any further.
Damn. I really want to read "Hard Deadline" now lul^^.
RE: Third Way Economics
Recommended book on this topic as it relates to NAZI Germany: The Vampire Economy
Also, a fun summary that describes the difference between Socialist and Fascist economics: Why own the farm when you already own the farmer?
Came on strong with the F word lol
You deserve way more subs than you have.
FDR policies were fascist. Though, it's normally called corporatism by academics who endeavor to be as polite as possible to Roosevelt.
Purely out of curiosity, did you delete the other video you did on this topic with star trek star wars and starship trooper?
It's still up (I linked it in the newer video for reference) but it's unlisted. Partly because I consider it outdated and partly because I got tired of getting comments and messages from angry Trekkies thinking I said the Federation was fascist.
But the topic will be revisited before long, addressing and building on a lot of points that were raised on that first video.
@@feralhistorian cool, thanks. I wanted to show a buddy and couldn't find it. Looking forward to the next video.
@@benjackson1454 ruclips.net/video/TjrpyVDRbNY/видео.html
Suggest searching for "The 14 Characteristics of Fascism" (2003) by Lawrence Brill. It is well researched and only 2 pages long.
i was under the impression that socialism was when the workers owned the means of production, and not necessarily tied to the presence of a command economy?
It seems to always come down to theory vs practice. The workers owning the means of production sounds great, everyone in the factory enjoying the fruits of their labor in a fair way. But then it ends up being "The Workers" as an abstract collective idea, with the State managing the means of production as they see fit and the actual individual workers still employees working for a wage. "Owning" the means of production only in an abstract, aspirational way.
I've come to the conclusion that most arguments about what socialism is stem from one person arguing theory and the other arguing practical examples without any effort to find out how to make the two things fit together.
@@feralhistorian well, if what you're concerned about is practice, there is actually an example of socialism that's out there even in America, even today - worker's co-ops. I'd define those as being socialist, as they're owned and controlled by their workers, by definition. And while they currently only make up a very small portion of any given economy, in places where they do exist, they even seem to do rather well for themselves.
If we were to put legislation in place to make it easier to form them, or if you're feeling extreme, to make traditional corporations illegal, I don't think it would solve all of the problems of capitalism - specifically there would likely still be room for consumer-rights issues - but I do think it would be better than what we currently have.
Also, thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my comment, it really feels nice to have a genuine discussion with someone who disagrees with you.
Conservative in 1920 Germany is very different from what you might be used to today. The old conservative monarchy was not a democratic nation.
another great one....
"mutations intensified"
Where would you put Putin's Russia?
I wouldn't call it fascist. Mostly because it isn't totalitarian. There is opposition media, there are opposition political parties that hold spots in an elected legislature that doesn't always go along with Putin's plans.
The Russian economy is also mostly structured along European neo-liberal forms. Private companies often have ties to government officials (the same is true in the US) but so far there hasn't been a unified state effort to direct private industry to serve government policy. Though that's a murky area that people can argue about for days.
That said, it's definitely authoritarian and is working very hard on building up a national myth of a Greater Russia.
@@feralhistorianRussia today is a neoliberal market economy where you can keep little individual freedoms as long as you keep your head down.
The other parties in the duma are allowed to go on because they form no effective alternative. If they were, they would rapidly have shared cells with Navalnyj.
Lore of The Galactic Empire and a (Revised) Generic Model of “Fascism” momentum 100
LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!
Hey I like your cool videos
but can I have a request you upload talking about
akame ga kill lore
the general (sm stirling and david drake) lore
warhammer 40k lore
mutant chronicles lore
matrix lore
terminator lore
xeelee sequence
etcetera
Some of those are already being worked on and should be up in the short-term. I'm having some discussions about Warhammer, so that might happen but not real soon. I want to get it right.
okay noted@@feralhistorian
What is Russia now?
Ya so, this works if you believe what we’ve been propagandized to believe in the last 80 years… it doesn’t otherwise
All the empire/sith symbols are six sided, like the star of david. Also when vader cuts off luke's hand it's a metaphor for the covenant. That's why when luke cuts off vader's hand in return of the jedi and sees the robotic arm he realizes he's on the path to the dark side. This is why disney makes terrible star wars movies and destroyed luke, han, and leia.
Wolk?.... Volk! We say it almost like the english speaking say folk. But with more bravado in the o. So like fOlk! With that you are almost there, ja. Greetings, your hilfreicher German 👍🏻
As much as I enjoy the video, I have to say I cringed whenever you drew on both Disney and Legends sources as if they were from the same setting.
Certainly a fair criticism. But I figured since neither are entirely consistent, I'd just treat it as wildly conflicting reports for the purpose of this discussion.
i came i saw i clicked
Add capitalism and socialism born new economy type project Cybersyn made Chile nation.
THE GALACTIC EMPIRE WASN‘T FASCIST!!!!
The thing is the Empire was a totalitärian Monarchy and fascism laid down by its original creators Mussolini and his gang is anti monarchy. Because the idea was that like in communism the people get the power, through one strong leader. Also in Fascim things like the rule of law exist more or less, dependend on the leader.
Sure, it's headed by an "Emperor" but there's no hereditary line, no system of patronage among Noble Houses, no body of tradition to base a monarchy on. We can call it a monarchy solely because Palpatine wanted to be called "Emperor" instead of President, First Consul, or Grand Poobah.
And to be fair, Fascist Italy was a monarchy more so than the Galactic Empire. Mussolini did answer to the King.
@@feralhistorian Mussolini despiced Emmanuel, but the Problem was he the King was too popular to kill, but i actually get your point. However you shouldn’t forget that the sith in general had kinda the same patronage sytem like acient romans were they would adopt an heir instead of making one, who is skilled, or in the sith way teach an apprentice who is powerfull.
I think the nuance here is that Lucas modelled the Galactic Empire's political titles from the Dune series. Emperor Padishah influenced Emperor Palpatine. While Padishah had a true monarchial lineage, Palpatine called the new government an Empire and would by extension, assume the title Emperor.
Yes, great point. Which also brings to mind the Napoleon parallels. Both Bonaparte and Palpatine probably would have saved themselves some grief by ruling like emperors but calling themselves something else. No policy or organizational change, just different labeling.
@feralhistorian Augustus was sensible enough to do that and, as a result, was the most succesful Roman emperor.
yeah, but why does Star Wars suck so bad now?
It's become fascist😂😅😂 funny but not really funny is actually true.
Fun fact: The right wing position is...LESS GOVERNEMENT INTERFERENCE IN OUR LIVES.
Only through American boomers interpretation of it
Is it? Is that common to the entire right wing? After all, broad secrions of right wing want more law and order, more police, etc. That is very much government theory in peoples lives.
Capitalism is THE interference in everyone's lives. And who owns governments, if not corps? 🤔
The new, cool conservatives like Victor Orban think otherwise. If Orban is a small state fiscal conservative, the words no longer have meaning.
Careful your getting close to the truth lol