I think John was too light with FM. The real Forza fans are up in arms over the latest version and they really needed someone with a large voice to take the game to task; because hopefully that’ll lead to better updates to the game to fix the issues. Bring such a light touch might mean Turn 10 will feel like they got away with things like lowering the car model quality and the half baked campaign mode.
I think DF and John especially are tired of witnessing how their videos are taken often as ammunition in fanboy wars, so thats why i think his approach was, lets say, rather diplomatic. And if you can read between the lines i think its clear where he stands in most aspects, and thats GT7. I am in the same boat, super disappointed in Forza and it is the objectively uglier game compared to GT7. I honestly dont know how anyone with a good taste in videogames visuals could even pick Forzas visuals over GT7s. The only exception i'd make is during night with rain. Forza indeed looks amazing in these moments (even though maybe a bit over the top), but in every other setting the game falls flat on its face.
First of all Thank You John for making the FM vs GT7 video! I’m a long time fan of the Forza franchise going back to FM2 on Xbox 360, as a fan I’m extremely confused and disappointed in the results of the new game. Especially in regards to what we were shown vs what we have, you highlighting these things only helps us as a community ask the question. What the hell happened with this game?!? Development started in late 2019 according Dan Greenawalt so regardless this game had ample time compared to previous titles. It’s not toxic to be disappointed and have questions, thank you once again for the video!
@TheWholeGrainBread_Real GT compared to other races has always been known to have good looking environments. The detailing of the cars are top notch. Forza has always been low IQ, boring trash. Xbox fans are known to be slow so makes sense that all of their 1st party games are soulless.
Fully modded AC on PC definitely beats it but yes it is still a very awesome experience for a budget. But the ghosting in GT7 is super distracting to me
@@redfoxsports4749 came here to say that as well. No game has come close to modded Assetto Corsa. Forza and GT don't even feel like real cars on a wheel compared to Assetto.
Motorsport 4 was peak Forza Motorspot and remains my favourite racing game to this day. But I currently play GT7 and Forza Horizon 5/4 these days. Great video guys!
Games are a product we pay for. If the product is subpar we all have the right to point it out. Any time you put something out into the market, you don't get brownie points for effort if what you put forth is bad. You're expected to go back to the drawing board and do better next time. I think the issue is people think being critical about anything nowadays is being negative. We don't move forward just pointing out positives. We move forward by identifying what needs work and could be better and hopefully entice the folks who need to to put in the time to improve upon it with our critique!
yeah why are we pretending like Forza was even close to GT in that video? Why cater to fanboys that cant take criticism of their games? If its true it should not be controversial.
It was either one of the STALKER or Metro devs (A lot of the same people anyway) that said they want the game judged as it is, not given a pass because it was made under shitty circumstances because the end user doesn't care. They want a good game, not a sob story about how tough it was. Incidentally, Stalker 2 is still being developed after the dev team had to flee Ukraine after the Russian invasion. I don't give a shit that the devs may or may not have worked overtime when they put out a bad product and there's other people doing the same thing in a god damn war zone. The fact is they had 4 more years than usual and put out a product with less content, worse visuals, lacking features, and an ill-conceived campaign/leveling system that any one of the employees should've pointed out as a terrible idea. There is genuinely no reason to buy FM8 over 7 when everything is worse except for physics.
I'm confused as to how determining a winner can be considered as toxic. Yes there will always be fans of each that will argue till they're blue in the face, but what ever happened to being mature enough to accept someone's conclusion from testing, even if it isn't what you want to hear? People are just way too over-sensitive nowadays. They want everything tailored to make them feel better about themselves and their decisions. If videos like these are not made, then devs are not held accountable for anything. One might think comparison vids are toxic, but I think they help the end user as the devs try to improve on what they released. I also think a lot of the reason for so much toxicity is purely because of how T10 advertised FM pre release. The words they used and the video they showed... I mean, as of right now, the game is not what they described. But I'd be surprised if they weren't working on bringing it up to what they promised. As a GT fan, remember, PD released a sub par game initially, and have resolved so much with updates. Give it time. If you enjoy one over the other, it shouldn't matter what the other one is like. Enjoy them for what they are and have fun.
Pretty sure GT7's primary issue was the lack of campaign, which I don't believe has been addressed. The only other thing I remember was in game currency, but that's a piss-easy fix.
@JZStudiosonline alongside that, GT had physics issues, server issues, various bugs, glitches, force feedback problems, kerb hacks, PP issues. I'm sure I'm missing a lot more. I think single player will be much more fulfilling if they ever release GT Sophy for all of single player.
I had a guy telling me Polyphony is lazy for not showing visible engine swaps, claiming it was the easiest thing in the world with the tools polyphony uses. Its hard to believe people out there thinking making games is easy when videos like yours exist.
Well, am a huge Xbox fanboy! But you have to give credit where credits is Due!! And I saw the whole video and to be honest..just from what I was seeing. I think you were being very kind to Turn 10. Gran Turismo just looked better and looked more realistic in just about every comparison. While Forza looked Generic, almost like it was just another racing game. Which was Shocking since this was Developed to be a True Next Gen game.
Honestly it was a very respectful video towards each developer with some constructive criticism involved. At the end of the day, we share our hobby with children young and old, there will always be arguments.
Yeah it was a really good video. I think DF does a great job even though I dont agree with them all the time... but that just comes down to personal preference. Just as I use to love playing Battlefield, but that goes way back to BF3 and BF4. I really disliked BF 1, BF 5, and hated 2042. However many people love playing those games, so they must not be that bad even though I didnt like them. BF players and COD players use to go at each other like FORZA & GT are right now hahahaaa
@@BiGG_X Yeah man i was around for the BF3 vs COD times too and that was way worse. Even the xbox 360 vs ps3 multiplatform game comparisons would cause chaos. Maybe i just dont notice it as much since i've gotten older
Yeah, I still don't understand how they went from 2 years of development time to 6 years and the result was a bit disappointing(?) And not only graphics, but bugs and performance issues specially on PC. I also saw some people were complaining about the game feeling incomplete as well. Idk, seems weird
@@valkeitos It´s all just weird. I expect Halo Infinite levels of "bringing the engine up to par", while not having the scope and cap of what´s possible to do down, as per the engineers/programmers of the engine, the console specs, and the project directors. It is all just weird and directionless. Throwing shit at the wall and doing busy work(and remodelling the promised to be) would result in 3 times the game, and if not sabotaged, it would play, and be good. They can do anything with the UI, at any time- like in FM7, cut out the lootboxes(suddenly possible-eh), but no change to the upgrade and torment of buying them, looking at a "pretty garage", that, that´s too much to ask. You need to do it, we cannot do any changes, expect news on race modes and FRR soon(!). BIG Things commin´! And it was a Fyre festival. Accessibility and gametime optimization is paramount.
i think the bigger issue when it comes to forza motorsport is that it has no soul or character and feels like another racing game due to how bad the presentation is over all with generic menus and repeating the same race structure over and over again until you turn off the game
@@mniakan754 i just think they don't listen to players as much as we would like. The game also needs some serious handling and physics updates that make the cars more realistic to drive let alone tune.
Forza Motorsport was a huge downgrade compared to the previews. Build from the ground up... They butchered the game !!! It looks even worse vs Forza Horizon 5, which is a 2021 game. Who looked at this, and said: This is fine.
John, your video was very respectful, i am a Forza Motorsport fun my self and i wasn't offended by anything you said! It opened my eyes to the fact that GT looks better by a long shot! I don't know how the physics feel in that game , because i haven't played any GT game since 4. But i might just pick up a PS5 because of your comparison video! Keep up the good work!
Get a wheel and PSVR2 for it later on and have your mind blown. The best way to game is multi-platform in my opinion. There are great things to miss out on everywhere. Every racing game feels different in physics, tyre model, and force-feedback, even amongst highly regarded PC simulators, but they all make sense and react about right in their own world. For me the recent physics update in GT7 with all the assists off on hard tyres using a wheel feels similar enough to be able to jump between it and PC sims without learning bad habits.
If you're really into racing games GT7 may be worth getting a PS5. And a year of PlayStation plus premium is $120 vs game pass ultimate $216 a year is amazing value. Game trials and some great games
@@rockettbuggey5990regular game pass at $120 a year works fine…I use Xbox through my gaming laptops…I used to be a hardcore Sony pony…I still own my 3 vita’s and my very limited big boss psp…but as I age and with custody of 4 kids I bought 3 gaming laptops when ps5 released and then later I bought a regular steam deck upon release and now a steam deck OLED at 1tb which was $703 with tax…also my Xbox account was from the 360 days, windows picked off where I last left and I still add to my achievements…I truly love GT though I still play gt psp on my vita….and no other racing game “track” fills that for me…that being said forza horizon series is fire.
If you have a compatible wheel then GT is great! If you mainly game on a pad, Forza is relaxing and with the sheer number of assists, you can turn your brain off and get some wins and upgrade your car / garage. Gran Turismo 7 by almost all metrics is a better experience, however to sit at home after a hard day at work - Forza has that weird pull of something like Diablo or Football Manager. Kick back and gain some xp.
Alex's criticisms would be regarded "toxic" by the ironically toxic fanboy community. We can't call fair comparisons and logical conclusions toxic. Ultimately everyone is entitled to their opinion, but John eloquently and tactfully gave GT7 its due. Too many far distance camera low res twitter video screenshots have been used against that game. But under a proper spotlight, its incredibly impressive. 🔥🔥🔥
Graphics isn’t a matter of option..it’s a matter of facts..and it quite clear gran turismo has superior graphics. Hold Turn 10 accountable so they can do better instead of praising mediocre work
DF was super soft on Forza in this comparison let's be honest lol They could've really went in how poor the car models are, the total lack of detail, the borderline arcade physics in a racing sim, the horrendous progression system....the list just goes on and on GT7 was so easily head and shoulders over Forza that DF was forced to declare them the winner. If it were anywhere near close they would've said it's a tie
@adamjjohnsen yeah I agree. I mentioned in the initial videos comments about this. Pretty much every single aspect GT7 is superior. It embarrasses forza..but John was being ...diplomatic... to say the least 😂. My point is, they were talking about how they don't want these videos to be used to over criticise Forza, but Alex did exactly that - and rightly so. That ain't toxic. That's just a fair comparison. FM8 is a soulless downgraded lazy mess with a few nice post fx. Compare FM8 to Driveclub from 2015. It'd still get destroyed.
Loved watching the comparison as I'm pretty new to the racing genre. Gran Turismo 7 really kicked it off for me; I had only ever played arcade racers in the past (NFS Underground, Midnight Club, NFS 2015) and anything verging on sim felt so daunting to play and understand. GT7 was super appealing with how it approaches car culture and actually teaching the ins and outs of basically everything about cars. I didn't think I'd ever be tuning cars in game but the first time I upgraded and tuned my dream Dodge Viper to improve its handling characteristics and actually win races... it blew my mind! Fell in love with GT7 right then and have been actively watching races and playing other racing games like F1/Dirt Rally since. Forza looks perfectly fine gameplay wise, if I had an Xbox I'd absolutely give it a go, but I am super thankful that PlayStation has a developer like Polyphony that's so dedicated to a vision they've actually impacted my life outside of the TV screen.
Both are good games. I prefer GT7 by a large margin because once I played it in VR I couldn’t go back to flat. I wish Xbox had a headset so I could play Forza in VR too because unfortunately I don’t want anything to do with a PC so GT7 it is.
@@coinsagE46m3 for a lot of people the initial cost (in today's market) is a huge obstacle, especially if you want a rig that can play VR games at a competent level.
@@74Spyderman I get that! Tough to beat a "set it and forget it box" that's easy to play on the couch, with guaranteed controller support with every game. I love my PC, but wish it was more seamless. Big picture is close, except when games have launchers or pre menu things(fallout/borderlands/batman Arkham). Consoles are also a sweet bang for your buck too. My PC is many times the cost of my current gen consoles.
Considering gt 7 is a cross gen game and Forza is built from the ground that's end the talk just imagine if gt7 was built only for PS5 what the result will be and I think they went very soft on Forza gt7 is miles better to look at and feels more premium
99% of people who watched the video enjoyed it for what it was a fun deep dive comparison. There's always going to be that nasty 1% who just have to say terrible things about on or another for reasons I don't think I'll ever understand. But please don't let that 1% deter you from making these excellent, highly enjoyable videos! Keep up the great work guys! ❤
Fun fact: Mike caviezel,former turn 10 sound guy does the car sounds for them at polyphony digital,he was around since gt sport but he really got things going in gt7 and you hear it 100%
@@RogueBeatsARGPersonally after hearing both, I'd say it's the complete opposite. Look at the Lexus LFA for example, on GT, it sounds so accurate to the real thing meanwhile on Forza recently it always sounds so synthesized and almost like they're putting this filter on it to make it louder which really just ends up hurting my ears lol
EVERYONE! The main problem was Cris Esaki and the hype marketing "Built From the Ground Up," slogan. The fake hyper real, ray tracing video trailers. If all Turn10 did was say, "FORZA IS BACK!" We wouldn't be nearly as pissed off about the steaming pile that was released!
Facts shouldn't be mistaken for opinions and it is a fact the GT is more detailed and close to realism in terms of models and elements on track. So giving appreciation and the due to someone who actually went a step further is better than being more diplomatic in our appreciation and giving out the participation award.
Everytbing John said in his comparison video was spot on. Nearly 99% of people that watched it, could see he was hitting all the points dead on. It was obvious who the miniscule minority was in this matter. The fanboys - who are also the most toxic gamers (on both sides). They want their side to win and any criticism is immediately viewed as negativity or favoritism. Surprised we didn't see the "DF must have been paid by Sony" comments. The fact is, criticism when presented the way John did, only helps to push things forward. It was constructive, insightful and well thoughtout. The constant side by side comparisons did the rest. This is what we need more of, critical but smart criticisms to get better products. Because competition pushes devs to get better, so does constructive criticism. And it is nice that a reputable channel like Digital Foundry puts this much effort into these videos, like they do.
The DF is often accused by Ponies to be Microsoft Shills. But Xbots feel the same way towards DF and Sony so they must be doing something right,right?😂
well no because DF always damage control for Xbox when they release a bad game. This video was another example of John pretending like it was a close competition between the games. Thats dishonest@@GameslordXY
I think us Forza players are upset with Motorsport because of the misleading marketing and so many missing features. Even Forza players believe GT7 deserves high praise. Motorsport doesn't feel new gen at all.
Exactly right I was really looking forward to it and it’s a massive disappointment, nothing that could not have been done on the one x if they dropped the RT
Same... I loved playing both series and looked forward playing FM. Didn't liked it at all and only kept playing GT7. It was ok, but I had more expectations. GT7 on the other hand also lacks in some departments but is overall an very nice racing game.
A lot of disappointment from xbox this gen. Redfall , starfield under delivering, forza. Hopefully they don't mess up fable 4 and helllade 2 next year.
This work by John was df at its ultimate best. People like chrom being salty about the outcome as it were are part of the problem They’re just two games being compared in a deep and very professional manner. Pointing out the differences and comparing the two isn’t in any way being derogatory or insulting to anyone People need to get a fucking grip. Totally agree with Alex’s opening gambit too.
GT looks way better, and I felt that was a lot of like...."both games are amazing"...like....FORZA for the price they charged and in comparisson it does not look that good.....there is no need to piss on microsoft's work....but I think you should crticize the game more for what it delivers.
@@fifteen8850 forza motorsport looks like shit when you race in rain or its foggy. After the forza video they did and saying it looks pretty good wihout testing everything in detail just told me that Digital foundry are corporate shills.
@Samymaniac here it is, the annoying gt7 fanboy that gets angry because john didn't say "forza super bad, gt super good" ahahah grow up, you can have your own opinion there's no need to bash on other's. That was a huge point in john's video, don't let his video change the way you think of each game. If it's the right game for you then you should keep playing it. It's not corporate shit or anything, it's just taking care of the feelings of both side's childish fanboy like you. Cheers🍻
@@TheTsaqif Forza looks horrible in comparison to GT7, maybe when comparing it to some mobile games it looks decent but lets call a spade a spade. Its not bashing, its telling the truth, and people like you probably are the reason its in this state, where anything is good enough to satisfy you it seems
What was IGN playing or watching or smoking when they said recently that Forza is the better looking game? They gave the visuals in Gran Tourismo 7 a 4.5... too much realistic 🤔
i think the "toxicity" we saw was not that one game is better than the other, its that Forza is not as good as it SHOULD be. As a GT "fanboy" i wanted Forza to be great, in order to properly give GT some competition. the fact that Forza constantly touted "built from the ground up" and at launch that it turned out to be a complete lie, is a massive disappointment. the fact they are re-using ANY assets in a game that supposedly was "built from the ground up" shows to me that the devs dont actually care all that much. again, im not saying these things to piss off forza fans, i just miss the days where GT and Forza would actually push each other to innovate and create good games.
@zacariascisneros6399 true, it would be nice to back to that era. These games need to push each other in order for both player bases to get more out of them.
Forza looks like you're viewing the game (even while in 3rd person) through a, and i dont want to say dirty windshield but a not as clear if that makes sense. So it gives colors kinda of a washed out look whereas GT doesn't have that and you get better colors.
I think this was a very tame and respectful video. It was very clear that 99% of polyphonys scanning is sooo much more accurate, cars and tracks. Considering GT7 was developed earlier, had to cater for ps4, the interiors had to be designed to work in VR where they look perfect. The time they have had to develop Forza for current gen only, the level of detail is unacceptable.
After being insulted by the roulette tickets of GT7, I really wanted Forza Motorsport to succeed. Team Green had an opportunity to strike where Team Blue faltered; a first party simcade racing game. Alas it seems we can't have nice things.
@Unprotected1232: Some people have the worse luck with those tickets, my friend is one of them. I have won everything but the "Million-dollar stack of gold.😊
On the point at 7:37 about how drivers use trees as braking points in real life - this is completely true, and furthermore, drivers will use things as simple as certain bumps in the road for braking and turn in points. Sims used by real-world teams take extra care to make sure trees, bumps, and other seemingly unmeaningful geometry are completely accurate to assist driver preparation. You also saw a lot of drivers comment on how things were either present or missing from certain games and sims when everyone jumped into sim racing during COVID in 2020. I also want to give a personal note - as someone lucky enough to work in motorsport and who has traveled to many of the tracks seen in the GT7/Forza video, I have to say that in my personal opinion GT7 just captures how the lighting looks and feels at the track better than Forza in general, but in the past I have found that some Forza tracks have done a striking job at capturing tracks - Sebring in Forza 6 especially come to mind. But especially in GT7, the feeling I get loading into some tracks is just uncanny - their approach to lighting and colors just feels absolutely spot on with how it feels to be at the track.
18:14 who is this guy submitting the Q&A question? What an oddly apologist take for him to have on the subject. Forza Motorsport's been universally, heavily criticized on virtually all web spaces, and this has nothing to do with the DF video's "verdict." It doesn't take much investment into either of these titles to see which one spent the time to develop a full-fledged title that meets AAA standards in 2023. FM23 can be summarized like this: a proper update to the physics with a rudimentary inclusion of weather, and a half-baked RT system, muddied by an extensively recycled, stripped down, decontented, buggy, unstable, unoptomized, and uninspired package, all for the price of $70-100.
Depends. On clear/dry tracks I feel like stock cars feel better on forza. While actual race cars(especially high downforce cars)and wet weather racing is better on gt. Also gt has a few dirt tracks and a snow track. Played both of these on a controller just fyi.
It was a super fair and balanced comparison. As a longtime FM fan, I was let down that they didn't knock it out of the park on release, but I'm still enjoying the game and I expect it will get a lot better before it rides off into the sunset. One of your main points is absolutely true: While playing, they both look great.
I feel as though in his efforts to try and be impartial, John inadvertently gave off the impression of being biased towards Forza and was too soft. A lot of parts I felt as thought GT7's advantages and Forza's disadvantages were being downplayed, and didn't really get that vibe for the vice versa. I think the biggest crime of all is that HDR wasn't enabled. Like... why? He even admitted that GT7's HDR implementation is best in class and they obviously have set-ups that support HDR. Why weren't they enabled for both games...? The only reason I can think of is that they didn't want the comparison to be overly one-sided but if that's what it ends up being because it reflects reality then let it be what it will be. That's not getting into the incredible disparity in car model detailing that wasn't really tackled deeply. Polyphony was incredibly obsessive with recreating these cars in the digital space and certain models in Forza just straight up look last-gen.
Your comparison was terrific, and the research into making it is appreciated by me. I play GT7 because I have a PS5, not an X-Box, and as has been suggested, the console/game wars is regrettable. As a GT7 player I can appreciate the different approaches, and think Forza is a great game in its own right. There are some ways it is superior to GT7 (the online racing can be sensational fun from what I've seen), and fanbois of both camps are losing sight of the fact that the industry needs competition, lest we have just a couple of racing titles which dominate and become complacent. Re gameplay, I was ultra excited when GT7 was announced, and even bought a PS5 to take advantage of the new features, but on release there was much consternation about the mess the game was in. Microtransactions, for one. I applaud the devs of Forza for releasing a product which will have teething problems, but end up being a worthy competitor (I think it is already ...) to GT7.
Digital Foundry, you guys have been the gold standard for graphics deep dives. Forza Motorsport 2023 is UGLY! I am a Forza Motorsport 4 loyalist. They have sunk so low... I own a Series X and FM '23 Gold Premium. It is such a disappointment that I literally bought a PS5 and GT7! GT7 is like a work of art. Forza looks last gen. And the lighting, it is such a gigantic chasm in the quality gap to GT7!
@THOUGHTBRUSH336 You do realize this is Full price game with Limited and Premium editions that tally up to $100!? Go into the showroom and look at the car models. It's a disgrace to the Forza Motorsport legacy. Where are all the features? Axed! Countless glitches and crashes. The state this game is in, after a 6 year dev cycle, is embarrassing!
@THOUGHTBRUSH336 I want Forza to be great. Esaki lied to us, and now we got this steaming pile. I will wait for all the patches in 2024, and hope it improves.
19:20 Chrom, a person who mentioned 3 xbox owned games, mentioned how much they loved FM. We understand. But at the olympics there can only be one person to take gold. Doesn't mean the silver winner did not put in the work/effort. I think we need to stop being "scared" to point out/accept when one game is factually better than another. Enjoy FM, Chrom.
Get this: in GT7, I can set up a custom racing experience with custom time of day, and racing only one AI, AND I WILL GET PAID FOR IT. Forget graphics or physics, Forza totally fails on this front. In GT7, I just take any favorite car, stock usually but sometimes fixed up, I get to set up a 3-lap racing session say at sunrise, set time to very advanced, choose my weather, whatever, limit the race to me and one other, and I make $11,000 in 5 minutes, AND IT'S GORGEOUS while I do this. I do it again twice and go to the used car lot, and pick out a stock car I already have, and make a souped-up version of it. And so on. GT7 allows me to have this self-made narrative. Forget the graphics or the feel or the physics, Forza simply doesn't allow this, whereas with GT7, I can create my own narrative. That's what I see as the biggest differences between these. Older Forzas would would let me do this.
Forza has so much incredible potential, but will always play third fiddle to GT as long as it simply tries to be the XBox version of GT -- instead of pursuing its own unique vision of what a driving game can be (see Driveclub, Grid, F1, Assetto Corsa, and Motorstorm as examples of games that successfully do this). Try the following -- play GT5 in 3D (a stunning experience 12 years before VR in GT7 arrived) -- and see that even back in 2010, GT was attempting to push the envelope.
i was really looking forward to Forza Motorsport, but was pretty disappointed. playing the Game pass version on a 12700k and rtx 3080 and it just doesn't look as good as it should IMO. Also doesn't help that i kept getting this bug where the actual road would disappear.
Person who complained about picking a winner only did so because xbox lost and playstation won. If they picked forza as a winner he would have never left that comment.
no hate to fm and its devs but its just that there's a lot of things that is missing and things that shouldn't be added like the car xp and car points for upgrade I just think that the carpg doesn't work that well for forza unless they just use in game credits rather than car points to buy upgrades
Anyone going on about "Toxic" nonsense isn't a well adjusted adult and can easily be dismissed as too socially illiterate to offer anything of value to a conversation, be mindful that they are known to throw temper tantrums when they don't get their way. Just trigger them and get on with your day, no need to tiptoe around their sensitivities, they're indoor creatures, let them pound feverishly on their keyboard, it's all engagement for you anyway.
As someone who grew up with both series and loves GT7, I was honestly looking forward to FM. A next-gen racer to really keep GT on its toes. I'm still confused as to why the final product was so bleh. Great comparison John :)
I grew up with them as well tbh I think GT has always been that little step a head. A lot of it likely comes down to Polyphony Digital not having their fingers in so many pies being their core focus and putting the man power and time in for all the tlc better.
I love both GT7 and Forza Horizon 5, with countless hours in both. So I was very excited to have another sim-cade racer with Motorsport. I even paid money for the first big car pack in Motorsport, even though I have it on gamepass. I was very disappointed with Forza, and dropped the game altogether. I’ve never played a racing game with more bugs and downgraded visuals than Motorsport. I think it’s important to hold developers accountable. Turn 10 has a lot of work to do, and I hope they turn the game around. I will check back in from time to time, but right now it feels like there is an issue at Microsoft and how they manage their teams. We’ve seen this story play out over and over again with almost every Microsoft first party game this generation, and it has nothing to do with fanboy-ism.
The graphics were way over hyped and definitely under delivered, it looks better than FM7 but not by anywhere near the amount you would expect after a 6 year gap and on a way more powerful console
Because of their failed focus on raytracing and volumetric clouds. It's too taxing on the system. They should instead have went the Forza Horizon 5 way.
As a simracer, who race exclusively on the PC, in SimRig, with DD Wheel and loadcell pedals, my two cents. I disagree that you can't enjoy iRacing. True, it has a steep learning curve, but once you get in your head vehicle dynamics, weight transfer, and understanding of the grip of the tires, you are good to go. And can then race in any hardcore sim racing title. Forza Motorsport is a disappointment because when you play it with the wheel, it has the same quirks and strange car (actually tire and suspension) behavior as the previous title. Also, force feedback you feel through the wheel is very strange, and behind GT. You can have a racing game, that is more on the sim side, but also plays well with the gamepad, and is also good on the wheel. This was promised, but not delivered. I don't want to get into GT vs. Forza, because the more racing games the better. But you can feel the physics engine is based upon previous Forza. We were promised new, from the ground up rewrite, and we clearly didn't get it. It's sad actually, considering YEARS of development. And since physics engine is so integral part of any racing game, we won't get any major improvements. We'll get DLCs, and better support for various wheels, but underlying car behavior is here to stay. This was a huge missed opportunity, IMO.
Oh, I would like to add the crucial part I forgot. The main thing with any game, sim racing title or not, the main point is, you CAN have fun. It's a good game. It just is not what we were expecting. You can still have enjoyable multiplayer races. You still drive in "real" cars on real tracks.
I'm a Forza Motorsport fan and I don't see the issue with the video. The game has far more problems than whether or not the graphics are better than GT7. I wish more media outlets would call out T10 for the mess of a game and not having the balls to face fans.
As a GT fan I'm going to say this: boy I wish it had FM's performance RT gameplay mode. That's a really nice feature. (Although if there's one graphical feature I would LOVE to have in GT it would be RT shadows with accurate penumbra in photo mode. I accept it might not be fast enough for realtime but it would look so nice in renders.)
@@11ICE every game has a bad launch now a days, remember Battlefield 4? One of the best FPS games of the franchise? Had a horrible launch, Forza 7 too, GT just was rushed by Sony but they keep improving the game little by little with every update
I think a Forza Motorsport 2023 vs FM7 video would be great. I feel like FM2023 took some very very clear steps backwards from FM7 and it’s disappointing to see. The one that stands out to me immediately and the most… the weather. FM7 weather felt more visceral, and FM2023 lacks puddles and hydroplaning. There is just a general uniform reduction in traction across the whole track in FM2023. GT7 and FM7 both handle wet tracks better, with GT7 simulating the drying along the driving line while off line remains wetter, and FM7 has the puddles which make certain parts of the track way more dangerous.
To be honest, the Forza team should be criticized by fans because of what their team advertised the game was hyped to be. John did a good job with the comparison, especially if you played both games. Microsoft has a pattern of disappointing some fans with their first party games, from Halo, Forza, Starfield, etc. They just don't and won't get it for some gamers. They are fine with being who and what they are and gamers just need to accept it and buy the games and consoles they prefer.
@zacariascisneros6399 I'm sure you speak for all gamers what's a good game and what's not. Geesh, people grow up already. Just because you don't like a game doesn't mean it's not good or great for many.
GT has always been more of a simulator than folk realise. Also, GT franchise pushed the driving sim genre to improve..... inspirational. Forza is just a desperate attempt to try and compete with GT Always has been and always will be.
The comparison was absolutely amazing and perfect timing for me as I have been looking at getting GT7 and/or FM (which I know is on GP). Having watched the video, there was only game I have any interest in playing and that is GT7, which I haven't played since GT3. I really appreciated the detail of the coverage and I have zero issues with what was highlighted by John for either game.
Only thing I dislike about gt7 is the predatory roulettes that suspiciously seem to always land on the worst reward and how 2 mil cost 20 dollars real life money. 2 mil is nothing in this game and some cars cost 20mil.
Personally I just like the structure of Forza over GT. I like the way the cars feel in Forza and the way the camera moves in Forza too. But at the end of the day GT is more colorful to the eye.
Hopefully Turn10 takes the criticism the right way and really puts some work in to make it better. The video is mostly objective and even the devs probably agree with everything you showed. If they don't try and turn it around then we all know what the real goals were with the game.
I’f you look at the FM original 2 cinematic teasers shown at showcases you might just think they falsely mis represented their game. 🙁 they still deserve credit for the rain graphics and night and day time cycles. 👍🏼
John, youre being too soft. Youre literally just providing information and comparison whilst padding forza on the back with every chance you got. End product of the game isn't you're doing. Fanboys will always be sensitive. That's their problem. You're comparison was as objective as it gets. In the end here, there's too much focus on the toxic 1%. Don't worry about it man.
I think you guys need to have thicker skin. It's just a game so there should be no issue with people have strong opinions. 50% of the internet is porn and the other 50% is bickering.
I got into a debate with someone over the video and quickly realized they didn't even watch the whole thing or maybe none of it lol. It's a fair video. Keep making these. These toxic ppl will weaponize whatever.
Those boys at polyphony digital are working on gran turismo 8. Those boys from Japan don’t go home. They sleep at work. Forza has no chance on catching up.
Forza Motorsport (8) was the final straw for me. My patience with Team Xbox has run out. The marketing behind FM8 was deceptive and I've simply had enough of Xbox mishandling EVERY major AAA exclusive. The incompetence is bewildering.
How have they mishandled every AAA game. Hi fi rush was a fantastic game. Starfield and Redfall were in development before Xbox bought Bethesda. You can't blame existing projects in Microsoft. Zenimax was to blame for making Redfall a live service game by heart and while Starfield did not reach its hype , it was still successful.
@@amanpradhan02So microsoft aren't responsible for redfall and starfield's failures yet they're credited for hi-fi rush's "success" despite being in development since 2017?
@@MichaelM28 I was talking about ups and downs of Xbox this year. While Hi fi rush was amazing, it's because of tango not Microsoft. So no i wouldn't pad them on the back. And same for redfall and Starfield. These are already made games. The difference is , Zenimax ruined redfall and Starfield because they wanted live service, something PlayStation is asking for. I will judge Xbox with Hellblade 2, Avowed, Fable, clockwork revolution etc because they are made from the ground up at Xbox.
@@amanpradhan02HiFi rush isn't AAA. I'm talking primarily about the big names. Halo, Forza, Gears Of War and sort of Starfield. Every big hitter has failed. I can understand games not living up to hype, but Forza was blatant misleading advertising. Right up until the day before release they were still telling us that their paint scanning is so much more realistic 😂 I've never seen a GTR 34 in Bayside blue look like it was made of play dough.
@@fcukugimmeausername Hi fi rush is a AAA gane, it's made by Tango gameworks whoa are a AAA studio. That's like saying Zelda is not AAA. Stop being delusional lol. Xbox definitely had ups and downs. Halo Infinite was a success but had longevity into question due to the live service nature of its multiplayer but it's doing very good now. Forza horizon 5 was also a fantastic game which did well critically and commercially.Dorza Motorsport I agree with you completely.Hi fi rush was also a success, it got more awards than Spiderman 2 as well. Yes, Redfall was asscheeks and Starfield was a good but not great game but these games were made or in development before Xbox bought them and Zenimax ruined them by forcing live service games. Projects like Hellblade 2 and Avowed are made from scratch with Xbox infrastructure. I want to judge them properly instead of nitpicking games made by other devs who just joined Xbox.
I thought the video was funny. I don't care which is best and I'm not into console wars, but, for some strange reason my Twitter timeline was full of Xbox fans boys like that sausage Colteastwood shouting about how much better Forza was, taking pics of Forza looking at its very best VS GT7 at it's very worst. Then your video came along and I could just envision all the anger and denial. Lol
10TB! Dang! Thanks for making the video. I haven't watched it yet but going to now that I know what you put into it. Keep up the great work guys love your content.
I’m gonna say what many Xbox players and Forza fans think , because I was an Xbox player before. I built a top tier 4090 pc. We were expecting Forza to completely kick the floor with GT. Forza has always been a looker. Since the days of Forza 4 it has had better graphics than gran turismo. The 6 years development time (huge for a car game) The resources from Microsoft, the fact that it was the first Forza for the new console and it is usually a console seller. The fact that it is a reboot. The merchandising about everything being made from the ground up. And those jaw dropping fully ray traced with full Ray GI trailers. Plus how stupidly good Horizon 5 already looks. I speak for most Xbox players when I say we were expecting something very big graphically speaking. And we got the kind of graphical jump that we could have expected and even maybe applauded if the game had released 2 years after Motorsport 7. But now in 2023 , it isn’t really impressive , it isn’t even better looking that’s Horizon 5 which is made by a fellow studio , and is OPEN WORLD which always requires graphical downgrades due tot he size of the world being rendered. I think that when I see the GT7 vs FM comparison videos , what I’m seeing isn’t Sony vs Microsoft What I’m seeing is American work philosophy vs Japanese work philosophy. 6 fucking years… imagine what a Japanese studio would do with a game if you give them 6 years and unlimited budget. They’ll probably manage to make a game that runs pathtracing on consoles 😂
I thought it was reasonably clear what was going on in the background. This series used to be the brainchild of Dan Greenawalt - he had his own team... he passed the torch to Chris Esai and they tried to humanise FM8 by introducing a completely new team... even with Greenawalt who was already getting tired of the whole thing as it went on from FM5 to 6 to 7 - and the new team doesnt seem to be gelling... and it shows. You cant force 'greatness''... FM8 wil never be a 'great' title... its just the way it is... Horizon 5 and FM8 are on a difficult path... I dont know what the answer is but this isnt it.
I think it's an MS thing... very few of the recent projects have panned out as expected. I'm hoping The new Hellblade breaks the trend but so far this gen there hasn't been a single change in direction on an MS IP that hasn't been a failure. I include even FH5 on that list because that game was unplayable for the first few months as well. It's not a good look at all from a management standpoint.
@@lammyjammer6670 Complete bullshit, Forza horizon 5 was a great game and is still the best arcade game you can get this generation. It was a critical and commercial success. Yes Microsoft did have its ups and downs this year. Hi fi rush was phenomenal while Redfall was garbage. But I can't blame Xbox because Zenimax pushed for a live service game for Arkane. While Starfield didn't reach its huge hype, it was still a commercial success but the creation engine is just too outdated. But I want to judge Xbox based on games made in scratch and that uses Xbox infrastructure to the fullest like Hellblade 2, Avowed,Fable etc.
I dont know why DF feel a need to damage control Xbox every time a bad game comes out. Lets not pretend like it was even close between Forza and Gt. We could all see it in the video. Truth should just be stated and not massaged to please the fanboys.
Can everyone stop being such snowflakes? It’s two similar games from two different consoles. It is perfectly reasonable to compare them and just happens this year gt became the winner. What is happening to people that they can’t even cope with a damn game comparison smh
FM guy here. I think you guys showed enough objective reasoning to show why GT7 is the clear winner. Good for the Ps5 owners. I made a PC for over 3000AUD and honestly do think GT looks better in these comparisons. BUT! Not in every aspect. And I do actually like the physics in the cars movement better in FM and also do like the Ray Tracing implementation. But that's probably about it
I think John was too light with FM.
The real Forza fans are up in arms over the latest version and they really needed someone with a large voice to take the game to task; because hopefully that’ll lead to better updates to the game to fix the issues.
Bring such a light touch might mean Turn 10 will feel like they got away with things like lowering the car model quality and the half baked campaign mode.
I think DF and John especially are tired of witnessing how their videos are taken often as ammunition in fanboy wars, so thats why i think his approach was, lets say, rather diplomatic.
And if you can read between the lines i think its clear where he stands in most aspects, and thats GT7.
I am in the same boat, super disappointed in Forza and it is the objectively uglier game compared to GT7. I honestly dont know how anyone with a good taste in videogames visuals could even pick Forzas visuals over GT7s. The only exception i'd make is during night with rain. Forza indeed looks amazing in these moments (even though maybe a bit over the top), but in every other setting the game falls flat on its face.
The campaign had nothing to do with a video about rendering though.
First of all Thank You John for making the FM vs GT7 video! I’m a long time fan of the Forza franchise going back to FM2 on Xbox 360, as a fan I’m extremely confused and disappointed in the results of the new game. Especially in regards to what we were shown vs what we have, you highlighting these things only helps us as a community ask the question. What the hell happened with this game?!? Development started in late 2019 according Dan Greenawalt so regardless this game had ample time compared to previous titles. It’s not toxic to be disappointed and have questions, thank you once again for the video!
Ground textures on Forza 2023 looks worse than Forza 7. Forza 7 also loooks more detailed.
GT always was better and looked better. Why be surprised. Microsoft has mad a good or good looking game in a very long time.
@@east00100% cap. GT has always struggled with environment and car sounds.
Started in 2019? What where they doing after FM7 and before 2019?
@TheWholeGrainBread_Real GT compared to other races has always been known to have good looking environments. The detailing of the cars are top notch. Forza has always been low IQ, boring trash. Xbox fans are known to be slow so makes sense that all of their 1st party games are soulless.
Gt7 with PSvr2 and a steering wheel is unbeatable immersion.
Fully modded AC on PC definitely beats it but yes it is still a very awesome experience for a budget. But the ghosting in GT7 is super distracting to me
PSVR2 (and VR in general) is just a huge PITA to use.
@@fcukugimmeausername not really..you plug in the single USB, put it on your head and that's it. not sure what's such a hassle about that
yea dude.. 10 years and its stronger and better than ever. i love AC@@redfoxsports4749
@@redfoxsports4749 came here to say that as well. No game has come close to modded Assetto Corsa. Forza and GT don't even feel like real cars on a wheel compared to Assetto.
Motorsport 4 was peak Forza Motorspot and remains my favourite racing game to this day. But I currently play GT7 and Forza Horizon 5/4 these days. Great video guys!
FM4 is still the GOAT of console racing games. I don't know why they went the direction they're in since FM5.... Very sad 😢
Games are a product we pay for. If the product is subpar we all have the right to point it out. Any time you put something out into the market, you don't get brownie points for effort if what you put forth is bad. You're expected to go back to the drawing board and do better next time.
I think the issue is people think being critical about anything nowadays is being negative. We don't move forward just pointing out positives. We move forward by identifying what needs work and could be better and hopefully entice the folks who need to to put in the time to improve upon it with our critique!
Makes sense, but people just like to be dicks when being critical.
Here's the thing, there are no excuses, because they can fix anything in any game today; look no further than GTA5.
Love this comment 💪🏾💯
yeah why are we pretending like Forza was even close to GT in that video? Why cater to fanboys that cant take criticism of their games? If its true it should not be controversial.
It was either one of the STALKER or Metro devs (A lot of the same people anyway) that said they want the game judged as it is, not given a pass because it was made under shitty circumstances because the end user doesn't care. They want a good game, not a sob story about how tough it was.
Incidentally, Stalker 2 is still being developed after the dev team had to flee Ukraine after the Russian invasion. I don't give a shit that the devs may or may not have worked overtime when they put out a bad product and there's other people doing the same thing in a god damn war zone. The fact is they had 4 more years than usual and put out a product with less content, worse visuals, lacking features, and an ill-conceived campaign/leveling system that any one of the employees should've pointed out as a terrible idea.
There is genuinely no reason to buy FM8 over 7 when everything is worse except for physics.
I'm confused as to how determining a winner can be considered as toxic. Yes there will always be fans of each that will argue till they're blue in the face, but what ever happened to being mature enough to accept someone's conclusion from testing, even if it isn't what you want to hear?
People are just way too over-sensitive nowadays. They want everything tailored to make them feel better about themselves and their decisions.
If videos like these are not made, then devs are not held accountable for anything. One might think comparison vids are toxic, but I think they help the end user as the devs try to improve on what they released.
I also think a lot of the reason for so much toxicity is purely because of how T10 advertised FM pre release. The words they used and the video they showed... I mean, as of right now, the game is not what they described. But I'd be surprised if they weren't working on bringing it up to what they promised. As a GT fan, remember, PD released a sub par game initially, and have resolved so much with updates. Give it time.
If you enjoy one over the other, it shouldn't matter what the other one is like. Enjoy them for what they are and have fun.
Pussification
Smart words. 🤘🏻
Pretty sure GT7's primary issue was the lack of campaign, which I don't believe has been addressed. The only other thing I remember was in game currency, but that's a piss-easy fix.
@JZStudiosonline alongside that, GT had physics issues, server issues, various bugs, glitches, force feedback problems, kerb hacks, PP issues. I'm sure I'm missing a lot more.
I think single player will be much more fulfilling if they ever release GT Sophy for all of single player.
@@Brocky05 Isn't it like... 30 random races though?
I had a guy telling me Polyphony is lazy for not showing visible engine swaps, claiming it was the easiest thing in the world with the tools polyphony uses. Its hard to believe people out there thinking making games is easy when videos like yours exist.
Well, am a huge Xbox fanboy! But you have to give credit where credits is Due!! And I saw the whole video and to be honest..just from what I was seeing. I think you were being very kind to Turn 10. Gran Turismo just looked better and looked more realistic in just about every comparison. While Forza looked Generic, almost like it was just another racing game. Which was Shocking since this was Developed to be a True Next Gen game.
A crapgamer subscriber 😂😂😂
Trashbox forever last place with no games 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@MichaelM28Look, a pony with no life!
Sony fanboy GARBAGE!
Honestly it was a very respectful video towards each developer with some constructive criticism involved. At the end of the day, we share our hobby with children young and old, there will always be arguments.
Well not really
I agree with you
Yeah it was a really good video. I think DF does a great job even though I dont agree with them all the time... but that just comes down to personal preference. Just as I use to love playing Battlefield, but that goes way back to BF3 and BF4. I really disliked BF 1, BF 5, and hated 2042. However many people love playing those games, so they must not be that bad even though I didnt like them. BF players and COD players use to go at each other like FORZA & GT are right now hahahaaa
@@BiGG_X Yeah man i was around for the BF3 vs COD times too and that was way worse. Even the xbox 360 vs ps3 multiplatform game comparisons would cause chaos. Maybe i just dont notice it as much since i've gotten older
GT7 is better, there is no arguments. only copes
Forza Motorsport 4 is the best they made. Followed by 6. This forza doesn’t look like anything in the demo.
Yeah, I still don't understand how they went from 2 years of development time to 6 years and the result was a bit disappointing(?) And not only graphics, but bugs and performance issues specially on PC. I also saw some people were complaining about the game feeling incomplete as well. Idk, seems weird
At least 3-4 years was spent rebuilding the engine from the ground up
@valkeitos3-4years to upgrade an engine to look worse than a cross gen ps5 game? Only at xbox
@@valkeitos It´s all just weird. I expect Halo Infinite levels of "bringing the engine up to par", while not having the scope and cap of what´s possible to do down, as per the engineers/programmers of the engine, the console specs, and the project directors. It is all just weird and directionless. Throwing shit at the wall and doing busy work(and remodelling the promised to be) would result in 3 times the game, and if not sabotaged, it would play, and be good.
They can do anything with the UI, at any time- like in FM7, cut out the lootboxes(suddenly possible-eh), but no change to the upgrade and torment of buying them, looking at a "pretty garage", that, that´s too much to ask. You need to do it, we cannot do any changes, expect news on race modes and FRR soon(!). BIG Things commin´! And it was a Fyre festival.
Accessibility and gametime optimization is paramount.
i think the bigger issue when it comes to forza motorsport is that it has no soul or character and feels like another racing game due to how bad the presentation is over all with generic menus and repeating the same race structure over and over again until you turn off the game
@@mniakan754 i just think they don't listen to players as much as we would like. The game also needs some serious handling and physics updates that make the cars more realistic to drive let alone tune.
Forza Motorsport was a huge downgrade compared to the previews. Build from the ground up...
They butchered the game !!!
It looks even worse vs Forza Horizon 5, which is a 2021 game. Who looked at this, and said: This is fine.
On point! I was expecting it to at LEAST look like FH5. But also pc requirements were higher than fh5 baffles me
It looks worse than forza 5! A game from 2013!
It's the Madden of racing franchises, what can you expect?
Microsoft should safe their reputation by means of add in game patches which improving all aspects showed in first trailer.
John, your video was very respectful, i am a Forza Motorsport fun my self and i wasn't offended by anything you said! It opened my eyes to the fact that GT looks better by a long shot! I don't know how the physics feel in that game , because i haven't played any GT game since 4. But i might just pick up a PS5 because of your comparison video! Keep up the good work!
Get a wheel and PSVR2 for it later on and have your mind blown.
The best way to game is multi-platform in my opinion. There are great things to miss out on everywhere.
Every racing game feels different in physics, tyre model, and force-feedback, even amongst highly regarded PC simulators, but they all make sense and react about right in their own world. For me the recent physics update in GT7 with all the assists off on hard tyres using a wheel feels similar enough to be able to jump between it and PC sims without learning bad habits.
If you're really into racing games GT7 may be worth getting a PS5. And a year of PlayStation plus premium is $120 vs game pass ultimate $216 a year is amazing value. Game trials and some great games
@@rockettbuggey5990regular game pass at $120 a year works fine…I use Xbox through my gaming laptops…I used to be a hardcore Sony pony…I still own my 3 vita’s and my very limited big boss psp…but as I age and with custody of 4 kids I bought 3 gaming laptops when ps5 released and then later I bought a regular steam deck upon release and now a steam deck OLED at 1tb which was $703 with tax…also my Xbox account was from the 360 days, windows picked off where I last left and I still add to my achievements…I truly love GT though I still play gt psp on my vita….and no other racing game “track” fills that for me…that being said forza horizon series is fire.
If you are willing to pick up a ps5 for gt7, at some point, pick up a psvr2. It is genuinely mindblowing for a racing game.
If you have a compatible wheel then GT is great! If you mainly game on a pad, Forza is relaxing and with the sheer number of assists, you can turn your brain off and get some wins and upgrade your car / garage. Gran Turismo 7 by almost all metrics is a better experience, however to sit at home after a hard day at work - Forza has that weird pull of something like Diablo or Football Manager. Kick back and gain some xp.
I can't believe people are debating whether you should announce a winner because it makes people feel bad. I mean come on.
It's what Bradburry advise us against on fahrenheit 451.
Alex's criticisms would be regarded "toxic" by the ironically toxic fanboy community. We can't call fair comparisons and logical conclusions toxic. Ultimately everyone is entitled to their opinion, but John eloquently and tactfully gave GT7 its due. Too many far distance camera low res twitter video screenshots have been used against that game. But under a proper spotlight, its incredibly impressive. 🔥🔥🔥
Graphics isn’t a matter of option..it’s a matter of facts..and it quite clear gran turismo has superior graphics. Hold Turn 10 accountable so they can do better instead of praising mediocre work
@@jerso79d faaacts
DF was super soft on Forza in this comparison let's be honest lol
They could've really went in how poor the car models are, the total lack of detail, the borderline arcade physics in a racing sim, the horrendous progression system....the list just goes on and on
GT7 was so easily head and shoulders over Forza that DF was forced to declare them the winner. If it were anywhere near close they would've said it's a tie
The cap for GT7 is hilarious. Gran Turismo has not been good since 4. Yall are high as hell.
@adamjjohnsen yeah I agree. I mentioned in the initial videos comments about this. Pretty much every single aspect GT7 is superior. It embarrasses forza..but John was being ...diplomatic... to say the least 😂. My point is, they were talking about how they don't want these videos to be used to over criticise Forza, but Alex did exactly that - and rightly so. That ain't toxic. That's just a fair comparison. FM8 is a soulless downgraded lazy mess with a few nice post fx. Compare FM8 to Driveclub from 2015. It'd still get destroyed.
Loved watching the comparison as I'm pretty new to the racing genre. Gran Turismo 7 really kicked it off for me; I had only ever played arcade racers in the past (NFS Underground, Midnight Club, NFS 2015) and anything verging on sim felt so daunting to play and understand. GT7 was super appealing with how it approaches car culture and actually teaching the ins and outs of basically everything about cars. I didn't think I'd ever be tuning cars in game but the first time I upgraded and tuned my dream Dodge Viper to improve its handling characteristics and actually win races... it blew my mind! Fell in love with GT7 right then and have been actively watching races and playing other racing games like F1/Dirt Rally since. Forza looks perfectly fine gameplay wise, if I had an Xbox I'd absolutely give it a go, but I am super thankful that PlayStation has a developer like Polyphony that's so dedicated to a vision they've actually impacted my life outside of the TV screen.
Both are good games. I prefer GT7 by a large margin because once I played it in VR I couldn’t go back to flat. I wish Xbox had a headset so I could play Forza in VR too because unfortunately I don’t want anything to do with a PC so GT7 it is.
Yeah VR is a game changer for racing games.
Why do you have such an aversion to PC as a gaming platform?
@@coinsagE46m3 for a lot of people the initial cost (in today's market) is a huge obstacle, especially if you want a rig that can play VR games at a competent level.
@@coinsagE46m3 Not saying it’s bad. It’s just not for me. Did the PC thing for awhile but ended up more annoyed and frustrated than entertained.
@@74Spyderman I get that! Tough to beat a "set it and forget it box" that's easy to play on the couch, with guaranteed controller support with every game. I love my PC, but wish it was more seamless. Big picture is close, except when games have launchers or pre menu things(fallout/borderlands/batman Arkham). Consoles are also a sweet bang for your buck too. My PC is many times the cost of my current gen consoles.
Considering gt 7 is a cross gen game and Forza is built from the ground that's end the talk just imagine if gt7 was built only for PS5 what the result will be and I think they went very soft on Forza gt7 is miles better to look at and feels more premium
99% of people who watched the video enjoyed it for what it was a fun deep dive comparison. There's always going to be that nasty 1% who just have to say terrible things about on or another for reasons I don't think I'll ever understand. But please don't let that 1% deter you from making these excellent, highly enjoyable videos! Keep up the great work guys! ❤
I feel like more dudes crawled under cars with microphones to record them for GT than for forza.
That’s very important to me 🙏
Fun fact: Mike caviezel,former turn 10 sound guy does the car sounds for them at polyphony digital,he was around since gt sport but he really got things going in gt7 and you hear it 100%
I feel like Sound is a win for Forza, GT sounds still sound very synthetic
@@RogueBeatsARGPersonally after hearing both, I'd say it's the complete opposite. Look at the Lexus LFA for example, on GT, it sounds so accurate to the real thing meanwhile on Forza recently it always sounds so synthesized and almost like they're putting this filter on it to make it louder which really just ends up hurting my ears lol
EVERYONE! The main problem was Cris Esaki and the hype marketing "Built From the Ground Up," slogan. The fake hyper real, ray tracing video trailers. If all Turn10 did was say, "FORZA IS BACK!" We wouldn't be nearly as pissed off about the steaming pile that was released!
Any reason why hdr was off in the comparison? Because GT has the best implementation of hdr
Facts shouldn't be mistaken for opinions and it is a fact the GT is more detailed and close to realism in terms of models and elements on track. So giving appreciation and the due to someone who actually went a step further is better than being more diplomatic in our appreciation and giving out the participation award.
Just to add on to that, we should also keep in mind that preferences are not facts as well.
Sony shills
exactly. i got the feeling in his video, he tried to really be very diplomatic to the point it seems like he is almost a bit defensive of forza.
Everytbing John said in his comparison video was spot on. Nearly 99% of people that watched it, could see he was hitting all the points dead on. It was obvious who the miniscule minority was in this matter. The fanboys - who are also the most toxic gamers (on both sides). They want their side to win and any criticism is immediately viewed as negativity or favoritism. Surprised we didn't see the "DF must have been paid by Sony" comments. The fact is, criticism when presented the way John did, only helps to push things forward. It was constructive, insightful and well thoughtout. The constant side by side comparisons did the rest. This is what we need more of, critical but smart criticisms to get better products. Because competition pushes devs to get better, so does constructive criticism. And it is nice that a reputable channel like Digital Foundry puts this much effort into these videos, like they do.
The DF is often accused by Ponies to be Microsoft Shills.
But Xbots feel the same way towards DF and Sony so they must be doing something right,right?😂
well no because DF always damage control for Xbox when they release a bad game. This video was another example of John pretending like it was a close competition between the games. Thats dishonest@@GameslordXY
I think us Forza players are upset with Motorsport because of the misleading marketing and so many missing features. Even Forza players believe GT7 deserves high praise. Motorsport doesn't feel new gen at all.
Exactly right I was really looking forward to it and it’s a massive disappointment, nothing that could not have been done on the one x if they dropped the RT
Same... I loved playing both series and looked forward playing FM. Didn't liked it at all and only kept playing GT7. It was ok, but I had more expectations. GT7 on the other hand also lacks in some departments but is overall an very nice racing game.
A lot of disappointment from xbox this gen. Redfall , starfield under delivering, forza. Hopefully they don't mess up fable 4 and helllade 2 next year.
no no no nooo nnooooo ...Xbox is better than N64 comparison to Mario cart
Playstation had bad ones too like: forspoken and final fantasy xvi@@RagingUtai
This work by John was df at its ultimate best. People like chrom being salty about the outcome as it were are part of the problem
They’re just two games being compared in a deep and very professional manner. Pointing out the differences and comparing the two isn’t in any way being derogatory or insulting to anyone
People need to get a fucking grip. Totally agree with Alex’s opening gambit too.
I feel like GT was built with love and FM was built on lies and deception.
Gt has way too many microtramsavtions though
@@oo--7714 they're not necessary to the games progression.
@@oo--7714nonsense. They are barely there and most people won’t even notice them. That was all drama people tried to create over nothing.
Speaking of deception, did GT7's microtransactions go live before or after reviewers played the game and published their scores?
@@danwarb1 same genre. Wildly different in scope
forza fanboys getting their feelings hurt
The difference between FM4 and FM5 was inexplicable. FM has been limping along ever since.
EDIT: T10 doesn't acknowledge anything. ...ever.
Ok bro
@@fifteen8850Ok xbot
The video was a masterpiece, good job John! ❤
GT looks way better, and I felt that was a lot of like...."both games are amazing"...like....FORZA for the price they charged and in comparisson it does not look that good.....there is no need to piss on microsoft's work....but I think you should crticize the game more for what it delivers.
Idk man I think FM does look *that good*, it’s just that GT7 is crazy with its graphics
@@fifteen8850 forza motorsport looks like shit when you race in rain or its foggy. After the forza video they did and saying it looks pretty good wihout testing everything in detail just told me that Digital foundry are corporate shills.
Lmao GT7 doesn't look way better, it's a much simpler enhanced ps4 game with great looking cars. FM does a lot more.
@Samymaniac here it is, the annoying gt7 fanboy that gets angry because john didn't say "forza super bad, gt super good" ahahah grow up, you can have your own opinion there's no need to bash on other's. That was a huge point in john's video, don't let his video change the way you think of each game. If it's the right game for you then you should keep playing it. It's not corporate shit or anything, it's just taking care of the feelings of both side's childish fanboy like you. Cheers🍻
@@TheTsaqif Forza looks horrible in comparison to GT7, maybe when comparing it to some mobile games it looks decent but lets call a spade a spade.
Its not bashing, its telling the truth, and people like you probably are the reason its in this state, where anything is good enough to satisfy you it seems
What was IGN playing or watching or smoking when they said recently that Forza is the better looking game? They gave the visuals in Gran Tourismo 7 a 4.5... too much realistic 🤔
It is the better looking game and IGN are right.
@@KhromTXlol
They said that?
@@KhromTXNo it isn't and no they're not xbot
@@KhromTXI'm guessing Destin made that video. That would explain a lot
i think the "toxicity" we saw was not that one game is better than the other, its that Forza is not as good as it SHOULD be. As a GT "fanboy" i wanted Forza to be great, in order to properly give GT some competition. the fact that Forza constantly touted "built from the ground up" and at launch that it turned out to be a complete lie, is a massive disappointment. the fact they are re-using ANY assets in a game that supposedly was "built from the ground up" shows to me that the devs dont actually care all that much. again, im not saying these things to piss off forza fans, i just miss the days where GT and Forza would actually push each other to innovate and create good games.
To be completely fair, the only time where GT and Forza were matched, were during the PS3/Xbox 360 era
@zacariascisneros6399 true, it would be nice to back to that era. These games need to push each other in order for both player bases to get more out of them.
It was a great video. The people who are toxic are going to be toxic. The video was what I would hope to see from someone who loves games.
Forza Motorsport 2023 is simply another case of false advertising. The game clearly doesn’t look like it did in the trailer despite “in game footage”
Forza looks like you're viewing the game (even while in 3rd person) through a, and i dont want to say dirty windshield but a not as clear if that makes sense. So it gives colors kinda of a washed out look whereas GT doesn't have that and you get better colors.
thing is, it doesn't even look that good in cockpit view
I think this was a very tame and respectful video. It was very clear that 99% of polyphonys scanning is sooo much more accurate, cars and tracks. Considering GT7 was developed earlier, had to cater for ps4, the interiors had to be designed to work in VR where they look perfect.
The time they have had to develop Forza for current gen only, the level of detail is unacceptable.
Original video is coming up as Private?
So true about FM4, I decided to try it again, and I was impressed how a game from 2013 still looks so good.
After being insulted by the roulette tickets of GT7, I really wanted Forza Motorsport to succeed.
Team Green had an opportunity to strike where Team Blue faltered; a first party simcade racing game. Alas it seems we can't have nice things.
Both series reached their peak with their 4th installments
Team Blue didn't falter though
@@MichaelM28 team blue went to the moon with the spec 2 update and psvr 2
@Unprotected1232: Some people have the worse luck with those tickets, my friend is one of them. I have won everything but the "Million-dollar stack of gold.😊
@@willierhone6244 I've won the million once and half million a handful
On the point at 7:37 about how drivers use trees as braking points in real life - this is completely true, and furthermore, drivers will use things as simple as certain bumps in the road for braking and turn in points. Sims used by real-world teams take extra care to make sure trees, bumps, and other seemingly unmeaningful geometry are completely accurate to assist driver preparation. You also saw a lot of drivers comment on how things were either present or missing from certain games and sims when everyone jumped into sim racing during COVID in 2020.
I also want to give a personal note - as someone lucky enough to work in motorsport and who has traveled to many of the tracks seen in the GT7/Forza video, I have to say that in my personal opinion GT7 just captures how the lighting looks and feels at the track better than Forza in general, but in the past I have found that some Forza tracks have done a striking job at capturing tracks - Sebring in Forza 6 especially come to mind. But especially in GT7, the feeling I get loading into some tracks is just uncanny - their approach to lighting and colors just feels absolutely spot on with how it feels to be at the track.
18:14 who is this guy submitting the Q&A question? What an oddly apologist take for him to have on the subject. Forza Motorsport's been universally, heavily criticized on virtually all web spaces, and this has nothing to do with the DF video's "verdict." It doesn't take much investment into either of these titles to see which one spent the time to develop a full-fledged title that meets AAA standards in 2023. FM23 can be summarized like this: a proper update to the physics with a rudimentary inclusion of weather, and a half-baked RT system, muddied by an extensively recycled, stripped down, decontented, buggy, unstable, unoptomized, and uninspired package, all for the price of $70-100.
I think the review was very fair as an owner of both
I haven't watched the original video yet. Which game has the more realistic physics engine?
Depends. On clear/dry tracks I feel like stock cars feel better on forza. While actual race cars(especially high downforce cars)and wet weather racing is better on gt. Also gt has a few dirt tracks and a snow track. Played both of these on a controller just fyi.
It was a super fair and balanced comparison. As a longtime FM fan, I was let down that they didn't knock it out of the park on release, but I'm still enjoying the game and I expect it will get a lot better before it rides off into the sunset. One of your main points is absolutely true: While playing, they both look great.
I feel as though in his efforts to try and be impartial, John inadvertently gave off the impression of being biased towards Forza and was too soft. A lot of parts I felt as thought GT7's advantages and Forza's disadvantages were being downplayed, and didn't really get that vibe for the vice versa.
I think the biggest crime of all is that HDR wasn't enabled. Like... why? He even admitted that GT7's HDR implementation is best in class and they obviously have set-ups that support HDR. Why weren't they enabled for both games...? The only reason I can think of is that they didn't want the comparison to be overly one-sided but if that's what it ends up being because it reflects reality then let it be what it will be.
That's not getting into the incredible disparity in car model detailing that wasn't really tackled deeply. Polyphony was incredibly obsessive with recreating these cars in the digital space and certain models in Forza just straight up look last-gen.
Ignore the butthurt forza trolls.
Your comparison was terrific, and the research into making it is appreciated by me. I play GT7 because I have a PS5, not an X-Box, and as has been suggested, the console/game wars is regrettable.
As a GT7 player I can appreciate the different approaches, and think Forza is a great game in its own right. There are some ways it is superior to GT7 (the online racing can be sensational fun from what I've seen), and fanbois of both camps are losing sight of the fact that the industry needs competition, lest we have just a couple of racing titles which dominate and become complacent.
Re gameplay, I was ultra excited when GT7 was announced, and even bought a PS5 to take advantage of the new features, but on release there was much consternation about the mess the game was in. Microtransactions, for one. I applaud the devs of Forza for releasing a product which will have teething problems, but end up being a worthy competitor (I think it is already ...) to GT7.
Digital Foundry, you guys have been the gold standard for graphics deep dives. Forza Motorsport 2023 is UGLY! I am a Forza Motorsport 4 loyalist. They have sunk so low... I own a Series X and FM '23 Gold Premium. It is such a disappointment that I literally bought a PS5 and GT7! GT7 is like a work of art. Forza looks last gen. And the lighting, it is such a gigantic chasm in the quality gap to GT7!
Ugly? It's one of the best racing graphics of this gen!
@THOUGHTBRUSH336 You do realize this is Full price game with Limited and Premium editions that tally up to $100!? Go into the showroom and look at the car models. It's a disgrace to the Forza Motorsport legacy. Where are all the features? Axed! Countless glitches and crashes. The state this game is in, after a 6 year dev cycle, is embarrassing!
@@metallicsilver Do you remember how the launch of gt7 was? Deleted saves, weeks offline and graphics bugs.
@THOUGHTBRUSH336 I want Forza to be great. Esaki lied to us, and now we got this steaming pile. I will wait for all the patches in 2024, and hope it improves.
19:20 Chrom, a person who mentioned 3 xbox owned games, mentioned how much they loved FM. We understand. But at the olympics there can only be one person to take gold. Doesn't mean the silver winner did not put in the work/effort.
I think we need to stop being "scared" to point out/accept when one game is factually better than another.
Enjoy FM, Chrom.
Get this: in GT7, I can set up a custom racing experience with custom time of day, and racing only one AI, AND I WILL GET PAID FOR IT. Forget graphics or physics, Forza totally fails on this front. In GT7, I just take any favorite car, stock usually but sometimes fixed up, I get to set up a 3-lap racing session say at sunrise, set time to very advanced, choose my weather, whatever, limit the race to me and one other, and I make $11,000 in 5 minutes, AND IT'S GORGEOUS while I do this. I do it again twice and go to the used car lot, and pick out a stock car I already have, and make a souped-up version of it. And so on. GT7 allows me to have this self-made narrative. Forget the graphics or the feel or the physics, Forza simply doesn't allow this, whereas with GT7, I can create my own narrative. That's what I see as the biggest differences between these. Older Forzas would would let me do this.
Forza has so much incredible potential, but will always play third fiddle to GT as long as it simply tries to be the XBox version of GT -- instead of pursuing its own unique vision of what a driving game can be (see Driveclub, Grid, F1, Assetto Corsa, and Motorstorm as examples of games that successfully do this). Try the following -- play GT5 in 3D (a stunning experience 12 years before VR in GT7 arrived) -- and see that even back in 2010, GT was attempting to push the envelope.
Why is video private ?
i was really looking forward to Forza Motorsport, but was pretty disappointed.
playing the Game pass version on a 12700k and rtx 3080 and it just doesn't look as good as it should IMO.
Also doesn't help that i kept getting this bug where the actual road would disappear.
Person who complained about picking a winner only did so because xbox lost and playstation won. If they picked forza as a winner he would have never left that comment.
no hate to fm and its devs but its just that there's a lot of things that is missing and things that shouldn't be added like the car xp and car points for upgrade I just think that the carpg doesn't work that well for forza unless they just use in game credits rather than car points to buy upgrades
Love your Work Guys and many others Too
I agree that the two developers are indeed "top tier". The difference is that one of them is very mismanaged.
Anyone going on about "Toxic" nonsense isn't a well adjusted adult and can easily be dismissed as too socially illiterate to offer anything of value to a conversation, be mindful that they are known to throw temper tantrums when they don't get their way.
Just trigger them and get on with your day, no need to tiptoe around their sensitivities, they're indoor creatures, let them pound feverishly on their keyboard, it's all engagement for you anyway.
As someone who grew up with both series and loves GT7, I was honestly looking forward to FM. A next-gen racer to really keep GT on its toes. I'm still confused as to why the final product was so bleh. Great comparison John :)
I grew up with them as well tbh I think GT has always been that little step a head. A lot of it likely comes down to Polyphony Digital not having their fingers in so many pies being their core focus and putting the man power and time in for all the tlc better.
I love both GT7 and Forza Horizon 5, with countless hours in both. So I was very excited to have another sim-cade racer with Motorsport. I even paid money for the first big car pack in Motorsport, even though I have it on gamepass. I was very disappointed with Forza, and dropped the game altogether. I’ve never played a racing game with more bugs and downgraded visuals than Motorsport. I think it’s important to hold developers accountable. Turn 10 has a lot of work to do, and I hope they turn the game around. I will check back in from time to time, but right now it feels like there is an issue at Microsoft and how they manage their teams. We’ve seen this story play out over and over again with almost every Microsoft first party game this generation, and it has nothing to do with fanboy-ism.
The graphics were way over hyped and definitely under delivered, it looks better than FM7 but not by anywhere near the amount you would expect after a 6 year gap and on a way more powerful console
That's so true. It looked incredible in the marketing material
Because of their failed focus on raytracing and volumetric clouds. It's too taxing on the system. They should instead have went the Forza Horizon 5 way.
@@vandammage1747 I do agree about a way too big focus on ray tracing, the Xbox and ps5 both have really poor RT capabilities
As a simracer, who race exclusively on the PC, in SimRig, with DD Wheel and loadcell pedals, my two cents. I disagree that you can't enjoy iRacing. True, it has a steep learning curve, but once you get in your head vehicle dynamics, weight transfer, and understanding of the grip of the tires, you are good to go. And can then race in any hardcore sim racing title. Forza Motorsport is a disappointment because when you play it with the wheel, it has the same quirks and strange car (actually tire and suspension) behavior as the previous title. Also, force feedback you feel through the wheel is very strange, and behind GT. You can have a racing game, that is more on the sim side, but also plays well with the gamepad, and is also good on the wheel. This was promised, but not delivered. I don't want to get into GT vs. Forza, because the more racing games the better. But you can feel the physics engine is based upon previous Forza. We were promised new, from the ground up rewrite, and we clearly didn't get it. It's sad actually, considering YEARS of development. And since physics engine is so integral part of any racing game, we won't get any major improvements. We'll get DLCs, and better support for various wheels, but underlying car behavior is here to stay. This was a huge missed opportunity, IMO.
Oh, I would like to add the crucial part I forgot. The main thing with any game, sim racing title or not, the main point is, you CAN have fun. It's a good game. It just is not what we were expecting. You can still have enjoyable multiplayer races. You still drive in "real" cars on real tracks.
I'm a Forza Motorsport fan and I don't see the issue with the video. The game has far more problems than whether or not the graphics are better than GT7. I wish more media outlets would call out T10 for the mess of a game and not having the balls to face fans.
As a GT fan I'm going to say this: boy I wish it had FM's performance RT gameplay mode. That's a really nice feature. (Although if there's one graphical feature I would LOVE to have in GT it would be RT shadows with accurate penumbra in photo mode. I accept it might not be fast enough for realtime but it would look so nice in renders.)
The truth is Gran Turismo is made with the Will of a lead developer for his love of cars and racing, Forza is made by a comitee for the love of money
Were you not there for gt7's disasterous launch?
@@11ICE every game has a bad launch now a days, remember Battlefield 4? One of the best FPS games of the franchise? Had a horrible launch, Forza 7 too, GT just was rushed by Sony but they keep improving the game little by little with every update
I think a Forza Motorsport 2023 vs FM7 video would be great. I feel like FM2023 took some very very clear steps backwards from FM7 and it’s disappointing to see. The one that stands out to me immediately and the most… the weather. FM7 weather felt more visceral, and FM2023 lacks puddles and hydroplaning. There is just a general uniform reduction in traction across the whole track in FM2023. GT7 and FM7 both handle wet tracks better, with GT7 simulating the drying along the driving line while off line remains wetter, and FM7 has the puddles which make certain parts of the track way more dangerous.
To be honest, the Forza team should be criticized by fans because of what their team advertised the game was hyped to be. John did a good job with the comparison, especially if you played both games. Microsoft has a pattern of disappointing some fans with their first party games, from Halo, Forza, Starfield, etc. They just don't and won't get it for some gamers. They are fine with being who and what they are and gamers just need to accept it and buy the games and consoles they prefer.
The only really good game for Xbox this year was HI Fi Rush
@zacariascisneros6399 I'm sure you speak for all gamers what's a good game and what's not. Geesh, people grow up already. Just because you don't like a game doesn't mean it's not good or great for many.
GT has always been more of a simulator than folk realise.
Also, GT franchise pushed the driving sim genre to improve..... inspirational.
Forza is just a desperate attempt to try and compete with GT
Always has been and always will be.
That first question was pathetic. We pay for these games, we can decide what works for us and what doesn't.
The new Forza has no polish or finesse. As a long time Forza fan, the physics are great but the post processing and muted colours ruin it
GT7 chase cam is abysmal
The comparison was absolutely amazing and perfect timing for me as I have been looking at getting GT7 and/or FM (which I know is on GP). Having watched the video, there was only game I have any interest in playing and that is GT7, which I haven't played since GT3. I really appreciated the detail of the coverage and I have zero issues with what was highlighted by John for either game.
Only thing I dislike about gt7 is the predatory roulettes that suspiciously seem to always land on the worst reward and how 2 mil cost 20 dollars real life money. 2 mil is nothing in this game and some cars cost 20mil.
i’m still waiting for all the kids who was so toxic even before that shit was out, “forza is back” “gran turismo is souless” “cry more”
Yeah, i see.
I honestly think FM shot itself in the foot with that trailer showing all that high res RT goodness. A case of overpromising, underdelivering.
Personally I just like the structure of Forza over GT. I like the way the cars feel in Forza and the way the camera moves in Forza too. But at the end of the day GT is more colorful to the eye.
Obvious xbot
If you like arcade racers, then sure.
You can get the GT7 camera to behave the same as FM giving the car more rotation on screen
Lol "colorful to the eye" you're not serious
GT has always had a poor chase cam and it’s one aspect of the Forza series that makes me immensely jealous.
Hopefully Turn10 takes the criticism the right way and really puts some work in to make it better. The video is mostly objective and even the devs probably agree with everything you showed. If they don't try and turn it around then we all know what the real goals were with the game.
I’f you look at the FM original 2 cinematic teasers shown at showcases you might just think they falsely mis represented their game. 🙁 they still deserve credit for the rain graphics and night and day time cycles. 👍🏼
John didn’t want to get attacked by Xbots. So he played both sides
But the funny thing is, forza players were the ones saying gt7 looks far better. But they downplayed the difference in the video.
What about the ponys? That thinks gt7 is the most realistic simulator out there?
John, youre being too soft. Youre literally just providing information and comparison whilst padding forza on the back with every chance you got. End product of the game isn't you're doing. Fanboys will always be sensitive. That's their problem. You're comparison was as objective as it gets. In the end here, there's too much focus on the toxic 1%. Don't worry about it man.
Having played both games, I'd say it was safe to assume that I enjoyed GT7 much more better.
I think you guys need to have thicker skin. It's just a game so there should be no issue with people have strong opinions. 50% of the internet is porn and the other 50% is bickering.
GT7 fanboys really seem to be greatly offended by Forza's existence.
@@jubei20111I’ve got both and it goes both ways. More stupid console war crap.
@@74Spyderman Parts of GT look better, parts of Forza look better. Dudes picking and choosing parts to justify their preference.
@@jubei20111 Pretty typical for console war stuff or any argument in general. Pretty sad too.
@@74Spyderman This whole thing could be avoided if these guy's dad's hugged them more and said that they're proud of them at least once.
I got into a debate with someone over the video and quickly realized they didn't even watch the whole thing or maybe none of it lol.
It's a fair video. Keep making these. These toxic ppl will weaponize whatever.
in other words he doesn't say even quarter about Forsa failure. all because some fanboys will be crying.
It’s not a failure tho?
@@fifteen8850It is though
@@MichaelM28 nah
Those boys at polyphony digital are working on gran turismo 8. Those boys from Japan don’t go home. They sleep at work. Forza has no chance on catching up.
Forza Motorsport (8) was the final straw for me. My patience with Team Xbox has run out. The marketing behind FM8 was deceptive and I've simply had enough of Xbox mishandling EVERY major AAA exclusive. The incompetence is bewildering.
How have they mishandled every AAA game. Hi fi rush was a fantastic game. Starfield and Redfall were in development before Xbox bought Bethesda. You can't blame existing projects in Microsoft. Zenimax was to blame for making Redfall a live service game by heart and while Starfield did not reach its hype , it was still successful.
@@amanpradhan02So microsoft aren't responsible for redfall and starfield's failures yet they're credited for hi-fi rush's "success" despite being in development since 2017?
@@MichaelM28 I was talking about ups and downs of Xbox this year. While Hi fi rush was amazing, it's because of tango not Microsoft. So no i wouldn't pad them on the back. And same for redfall and Starfield. These are already made games. The difference is , Zenimax ruined redfall and Starfield because they wanted live service, something PlayStation is asking for. I will judge Xbox with Hellblade 2, Avowed, Fable, clockwork revolution etc because they are made from the ground up at Xbox.
@@amanpradhan02HiFi rush isn't AAA. I'm talking primarily about the big names. Halo, Forza, Gears Of War and sort of Starfield. Every big hitter has failed. I can understand games not living up to hype, but Forza was blatant misleading advertising. Right up until the day before release they were still telling us that their paint scanning is so much more realistic 😂 I've never seen a GTR 34 in Bayside blue look like it was made of play dough.
@@fcukugimmeausername Hi fi rush is a AAA gane, it's made by Tango gameworks whoa are a AAA studio. That's like saying Zelda is not AAA. Stop being delusional lol.
Xbox definitely had ups and downs. Halo Infinite was a success but had longevity into question due to the live service nature of its multiplayer but it's doing very good now. Forza horizon 5 was also a fantastic game which did well critically and commercially.Dorza Motorsport I agree with you completely.Hi fi rush was also a success, it got more awards than Spiderman 2 as well.
Yes, Redfall was asscheeks and Starfield was a good but not great game but these games were made or in development before Xbox bought them and Zenimax ruined them by forcing live service games. Projects like Hellblade 2 and Avowed are made from scratch with Xbox infrastructure. I want to judge them properly instead of nitpicking games made by other devs who just joined Xbox.
I thought the video was funny. I don't care which is best and I'm not into console wars, but, for some strange reason my Twitter timeline was full of Xbox fans boys like that sausage Colteastwood shouting about how much better Forza was, taking pics of Forza looking at its very best VS GT7 at it's very worst. Then your video came along and I could just envision all the anger and denial. Lol
Thanks for doing what you did. The polarization of the gaming community never ceases to amaze me.
Installed fm on pc and right at the tutorial the street was invisible, completely missing texture like you’re driving in space. Fastest refund ever
Epic video John. You put the argument straight to bed.
10TB! Dang! Thanks for making the video. I haven't watched it yet but going to now that I know what you put into it. Keep up the great work guys love your content.
I’m gonna say what many Xbox players and Forza fans think , because I was an Xbox player before. I built a top tier 4090 pc.
We were expecting Forza to completely kick the floor with GT.
Forza has always been a looker.
Since the days of Forza 4 it has had better graphics than gran turismo.
The 6 years development time (huge for a car game)
The resources from Microsoft, the fact that it was the first Forza for the new console and it is usually a console seller.
The fact that it is a reboot.
The merchandising about everything being made from the ground up.
And those jaw dropping fully ray traced with full Ray GI trailers.
Plus how stupidly good Horizon 5 already looks.
I speak for most Xbox players when I say we were expecting something very big graphically speaking.
And we got the kind of graphical jump that we could have expected and even maybe applauded if the game had released 2 years after Motorsport 7.
But now in 2023 , it isn’t really impressive , it isn’t even better looking that’s Horizon 5 which is made by a fellow studio , and is OPEN WORLD which always requires graphical downgrades due tot he size of the world being rendered.
I think that when I see the GT7 vs FM comparison videos , what I’m seeing isn’t Sony vs Microsoft
What I’m seeing is American work philosophy vs Japanese work philosophy.
6 fucking years… imagine what a Japanese studio would do with a game if you give them 6 years and unlimited budget.
They’ll probably manage to make a game that runs pathtracing on consoles 😂
Forza never looked better than gt.
@@THOUGHTBRUSH336 you are drunk if you think that 😂
I thought it was reasonably clear what was going on in the background. This series used to be the brainchild of Dan Greenawalt - he had his own team... he passed the torch to Chris Esai and they tried to humanise FM8 by introducing a completely new team... even with Greenawalt who was already getting tired of the whole thing as it went on from FM5 to 6 to 7 - and the new team doesnt seem to be gelling... and it shows. You cant force 'greatness''... FM8 wil never be a 'great' title... its just the way it is... Horizon 5 and FM8 are on a difficult path... I dont know what the answer is but this isnt it.
I think it's an MS thing... very few of the recent projects have panned out as expected.
I'm hoping The new Hellblade breaks the trend but so far this gen there hasn't been a single change in direction on an MS IP that hasn't been a failure.
I include even FH5 on that list because that game was unplayable for the first few months as well. It's not a good look at all from a management standpoint.
@@lammyjammer6670 Complete bullshit, Forza horizon 5 was a great game and is still the best arcade game you can get this generation. It was a critical and commercial success.
Yes Microsoft did have its ups and downs this year. Hi fi rush was phenomenal while Redfall was garbage. But I can't blame Xbox because Zenimax pushed for a live service game for Arkane. While Starfield didn't reach its huge hype, it was still a commercial success but the creation engine is just too outdated.
But I want to judge Xbox based on games made in scratch and that uses Xbox infrastructure to the fullest like Hellblade 2, Avowed,Fable etc.
@@amanpradhan02Mid-fi Rush was far from phenomenal xbot
@@amanpradhan02Midblade 2 Walking Simulator, Avowed PS2 graphics, Transgender Fable 🤣🤣🤣
@@amanpradhan02 FH5 was unplayable for over a month after launch.
Thanks John for all you passion and effort you put into this project! It was very enjoyable to watch.
I would hardly call Turn10 a top tier developer.
I dont know why DF feel a need to damage control Xbox every time a bad game comes out. Lets not pretend like it was even close between Forza and Gt. We could all see it in the video. Truth should just be stated and not massaged to please the fanboys.
Can everyone stop being such snowflakes? It’s two similar games from two different consoles. It is perfectly reasonable to compare them and just happens this year gt became the winner. What is happening to people that they can’t even cope with a damn game comparison smh
Would love to see a car comparison of GT7 vs Motorsport vs Horizon 5.
FM guy here.
I think you guys showed enough objective reasoning to show why GT7 is the clear winner.
Good for the Ps5 owners.
I made a PC for over 3000AUD and honestly do think GT looks better in these comparisons.
BUT! Not in every aspect. And I do actually like the physics in the cars movement better in FM and also do like the Ray Tracing implementation. But that's probably about it