Kudos Romping Bronco for bringing out the full list of camera clones made out of the Cosina CT-1 chassis ! It's impressive. Their Voigtänder branded cameras (Bessa T, Bessa R, Bessa R2, Bessa R2M, R3M) were also based on this chassis, and a similar shutter from Copal. These cameras were a big part of the rangefinder renaissance, that occured in the years 2000's and beginning of 2010's. They used a modified Copal shutter with double the set of blades for better light-tightness. These Voigtländer cameras provided a support for a whole range of LTM M39 (then Leica-M mount) high quality lenses produced by Cosina. This M-mount lens range still exists and is striving today, while the camera range completely disappeared. The Voigtländer Bessa cameras sell for expensive prices today. I have read somewhere that the reason these nice cameras were discontinued (the Cosina reflex clones and the Bessas), is that Copal shut down the production of the adequate mechanical shutter. This sounds plausible. These cameras were quite niche. I think this shut-down is the reason we don't see a mechanical film camera made in Japan anymore, despite the demand. No adequate shutter = no film camera. Look at the Pentax 17 : it is not equipped with a traditional bladed focal-plane shutter. The reason Ricoh - Pentax was able to produce this camera at all, is linked to its electro-mechanical leaf shutter inside the lens. Way simpler to engineer and produce in-house. I guess we will not see a 24*36mm film reflex anytime soon. Unless Copal (or Seiko) is convinced to bring back an old school shutter. Cheers!
Minolta merged with Konica a few years before the switch to digital, they developped a few digital reflex cameras bearing Minolta Alpha mount. Then they sold their entire photo division to Sony, which continued the reflex alpha mount for a while, before rebooting the entire range into mirrorless. But Konica-Minolta still exist as a separate company (making photocopiers, desktop devices, printers) , they just don't produce photographic stuff anymore.
Vivitar v3800n is the GOAT Cosina IMO. It also have the double exposure button, but in a better place than the FM10. I believe they were produced through 2012, and still sold new as late as 2017 so they are generally in pristine condition. 99% of them were bought for photography classes, used once, and put in a closet. It is one the best values in film photography. A potentially 1-2 roll used camera made 12 years ago is insane in 2024. I’ve owned 5-6 and generally give them to friends interested in film. The feel is very nice too. Super crisp. And it’s Pentax k mount so you can’t go wrong there.
Maybe 7artisans could revive these cameras. They seem to like to produce “vintage” lenses for new mounts. Why not make a quality camera body to accompany them.
this, I bet there is a good chance they are already reverse engineering something from the past for reproduction. They are the only brand who recently released a NEW Leica 39mm Threaded Mount lens.
@@s_t_r_a_y_e_d No, Cosina released two M39 Leica thread mount lenses recently : the Color-Skopar 28mm f/2.8 and the Heliar 40mm f/2.8, they also produce them in Leica M mount.
I love that you mentioned Topcon because they were at one point ahead of the SLR market, they beat Nikon in releasing a TTL metering camera (the photomic attachment for the Nikon F was released in 1965 whereas Topcon's RE Super was released in 1963) and they were quite ahead of the competition for a few years. Their lenses were also great as was Exakta glass. The Exakta mount was also, I believe, one of its downfalls, as well as their resistance to adding electronic elements to the cameras. Still they were great, amazingly built cameras with great glass, like the original RE Auto-Topcor 58mm F1.4.
By the time Cosina produced chassis for the cameras you listed, mainstream manufacturers had moved on, and rebranded cameras gained a reputation for being built down to a price. This trend in the consumer market had been around for a while, with Pentax shifting their K1000 plant from Japan to China, and a new willingness of famous brands to sell cameras whose only homegrown feature was the name on the prism. While late 90s bare bones plastic SLRs may offer an economically viable way into remanufacturing at a profit, the world is awash with hand made, Copal shutter Nikkormats for very little money.
For me, biggest problem with most film cameras are maintainability (including parts replacement). Most of us still use gears which are not supported anymore (or the manufacturers area dead for decades). No new parts = cannibilizing existing bodies. I'd say maintaining large format cameras is easier, because much less moving parts involved. Not surpisingly, we see new large format camera manufacturer these days like Intrepid, Gibellini, Ondu, etc. Of course it's a smaller niche. It's very very unlikely a film photography beginner will purchase a Toyo or a Linhof.
@@JPCl no that is true. But since intrepid are affordable it would make sense to have affordable lenses. It’s just that only having reasonably expensive options won’t keep film going for the masses. I’ve had 2 4x5 cameras over a few years, only took it seriously the second time and I had to sell it. I have too many expensive hobbies and the cost of film and the cost of a decent scanning setup pushed me away sadly.
I've got two of these cameras, rebranded as the Revue SC-4m and the Revue 100 Solar (yep, actually solar powered meter with capacitor for energy storage). They're not sexy but they're perfectly serviceable, and the combination of fully mechanical shutter, speeds up to 1/2000 and metal rather than cloth curtains actually makes them fairly competetive as mechanical SLRs go.
I've wondered out loud what keeps Cosina from bringing back those Voigtlander SLRs and rangefinders they made 15-20 years ago. They sell for ridiculous prices used, so I can only presume that if they could, they would've by now. (They still make lenses, so...?) And Minolta merged with Konica, and then both were absorbed into Sony may years ago.
Konica merged with Minolta a few years before the switch to digital, they developped a few digital reflex cameras bearing Minolta Alpha mount. Then they sold their entire photo division to Sony, which continued the reflex alpha mount for a while, before rebooting the entire range into mirrorless. But Konica-Minolta still exist as a separate company (making photocopiers, desktop devices, printers) , they just don't produce photographic stuff anymore.
Thanks for the video. Actually I knew the Cosina was a lot of others, too but didn't it being so many others (even reading out the list made me start doing something else). But it makes one point obvious, a camera made in so many variants will be repairable in it's basic mechanics and another success of Cosina was for us filmshooters today to have mechanic bodies available for such a variety of lenses (mine are the Contax and the voigtländer r2c was the first camera in fifty years to take these, no adapter needed, I was quite excited). And yes, someone like Cosina could make a camera like this today but there are so many similar second hand available, aren't they? Some people might just throw them away when they see they don't earn big money like the analogue gurus promised. But some might just find their way to young enthusiats who may take pictures and don't care which companie's name is printed on the case and might, just like the big trades thougt back than, let these upcoming photographers join a whole world of capable lenses. And yes, minolta left the arena years ago and sony inherited the A lensmount they now discontinued and some work on digital cameras which is now long bypassed I assume. Olympus started to redefine themselfs and Pentax is making a big fuzz about a camera the don't build themselfs and which is by far not as capable as the classic Cosina body. Cosina on the other hand seems to be pretty good in business making all the voigtländer branded lenses (some chinese companies might bit badly in their success selling MF lenses for M-mount and L39 but they are pretty impressive fast in developing something the various artisans have not on their webpage. The bessa L whatsoever is a pretty recent camera based on a relyable concept to utilize lenses you might have be giben by your granddad and are, apart from being plastic covered, propably more japanese craftmanship quality than the several USSR copies around (and I have two of these and not the bessa L). Best Albrecht
The Minolta you’re talking about is just an x370 clone but made in China by a company maybe named Seagull? I don’t really remember all of the details. To my knowledge, they never got a fully mechanical Cosina camera though, unfortunately.
Way way back in 1980 the first SLR I bought was a CT1 - at 14 years old - I was actually saving for a Voigtländer VSL 1 (massively discounted in UK) as I was Rollei obsessed. but just before I had enough money Rollei went through. At the time I couldn’t afford a Pentax MX on newspaper money - it was a fabulous camera and I think my niece may still use it - that did lead me into the world of K mount, but in 2000 after about 6 years of using nothing and selling ME Super, MX, P30 and Ricoh KR10 - the C Voigtländers appeared - in 2004 I got a R2 and the CV 25mm f4 and a year later an R (for the 35mm lens) and a CV 75mm lens then as a 40th Birthday present to myself a Zeiss Ikon ZM and a ZM Planar and along the way I picked up a L brand new which has still never been used but I also bought a Rollei SL2000f in 2008 the camera I actually always wanted all the way back then - sadly the Rollei Zeiss ZM and most of my vC glass was stolen in 2018 and as yet has not been replaced - however I now use a German made Rollei SL35 ( if you want back to basics thats the guy) about 4 qbm lenses, the Bessa R2 and Zeiss ZM planar and in K an MX with a K50 f1.4, 28 f2.8 and 135 f3.5 that were my late father in laws and a black ME Super. So at 58 - 44 years later my world has come full circle and much of has been spent using cameras based on the CT1 - its still a fabulous camera in what ever guise - though some of the late 90s iterations are very plastic where as the Bessa is basically the Cosina body that was the CT1 in 1984 - some plastic but metal enough and that copal shutter which just works A more successful camera than the K1000?
I've been really enjoying Harman Phoenix. I got good results from the lab, but it's totally different scanning it at home (Epson V600). I'll definitely be stocking up on the 120. And I do unironically wish it was coming in 110.
A month ago I bought a Vivitar v335 which is a Cosina ct 1 super (1/2000 speed) for $25 with a 35-70 zoom lens. It turned out that the light meter also works without a problem. Thanks to that I could spend more money on a good lens with a pentax K mount instead of an expensive camera.
Picked up a Canon T60 a few years ago in very good condition. It has earned a place as my EDC camera. It doesn’t replace any of my other Canons, but it has amazed me in its handiness and ability.
I’ve got two early Yashica FX-3 cameras and am surprised to see them on the Cosina list. I think there may be some lineage change after Yashica sold some of it manufacturing to China. On the link you posted it shows the FX-3 as the Super 2000 model.
I think you are the only one hoping for Harmon Phoenix in 110. Most are hoping for it in 120.
Kudos Romping Bronco for bringing out the full list of camera clones made out of the Cosina CT-1 chassis ! It's impressive.
Their Voigtänder branded cameras (Bessa T, Bessa R, Bessa R2, Bessa R2M, R3M) were also based on this chassis, and a similar shutter from Copal. These cameras were a big part of the rangefinder renaissance, that occured in the years 2000's and beginning of 2010's. They used a modified Copal shutter with double the set of blades for better light-tightness. These Voigtländer cameras provided a support for a whole range of LTM M39 (then Leica-M mount) high quality lenses produced by Cosina. This M-mount lens range still exists and is striving today, while the camera range completely disappeared. The Voigtländer Bessa cameras sell for expensive prices today.
I have read somewhere that the reason these nice cameras were discontinued (the Cosina reflex clones and the Bessas), is that Copal shut down the production of the adequate mechanical shutter. This sounds plausible. These cameras were quite niche. I think this shut-down is the reason we don't see a mechanical film camera made in Japan anymore, despite the demand. No adequate shutter = no film camera. Look at the Pentax 17 : it is not equipped with a traditional bladed focal-plane shutter. The reason Ricoh - Pentax was able to produce this camera at all, is linked to its electro-mechanical leaf shutter inside the lens. Way simpler to engineer and produce in-house. I guess we will not see a 24*36mm film reflex anytime soon. Unless Copal (or Seiko) is convinced to bring back an old school shutter.
Cheers!
Minolta is sony now, early sony alpha dslrs could use 35mm minolta lens 😅 that's how I started my photography journey
Minolta merged with Konica a few years before the switch to digital, they developped a few digital reflex cameras bearing Minolta Alpha mount. Then they sold their entire photo division to Sony, which continued the reflex alpha mount for a while, before rebooting the entire range into mirrorless. But Konica-Minolta still exist as a separate company (making photocopiers, desktop devices, printers) , they just don't produce photographic stuff anymore.
Vivitar v3800n is the GOAT Cosina IMO. It also have the double exposure button, but in a better place than the FM10. I believe they were produced through 2012, and still sold new as late as 2017 so they are generally in pristine condition. 99% of them were bought for photography classes, used once, and put in a closet. It is one the best values in film photography. A potentially 1-2 roll used camera made 12 years ago is insane in 2024. I’ve owned 5-6 and generally give them to friends interested in film. The feel is very nice too. Super crisp. And it’s Pentax k mount so you can’t go wrong there.
Maybe 7artisans could revive these cameras. They seem to like to produce “vintage” lenses for new mounts.
Why not make a quality camera body to accompany them.
this, I bet there is a good chance they are already reverse engineering something from the past for reproduction. They are the only brand who recently released a NEW Leica 39mm Threaded Mount lens.
@@s_t_r_a_y_e_d somehow I’m hoping for it.
@@s_t_r_a_y_e_d No, Cosina released two M39 Leica thread mount lenses recently : the Color-Skopar 28mm f/2.8 and the Heliar 40mm f/2.8, they also produce them in Leica M mount.
I love that you mentioned Topcon because they were at one point ahead of the SLR market, they beat Nikon in releasing a TTL metering camera (the photomic attachment for the Nikon F was released in 1965 whereas Topcon's RE Super was released in 1963) and they were quite ahead of the competition for a few years. Their lenses were also great as was Exakta glass. The Exakta mount was also, I believe, one of its downfalls, as well as their resistance to adding electronic elements to the cameras. Still they were great, amazingly built cameras with great glass, like the original RE Auto-Topcor 58mm F1.4.
By the time Cosina produced chassis for the cameras you listed, mainstream manufacturers had moved on, and rebranded cameras gained a reputation for being built down to a price. This trend in the consumer market had been around for a while, with Pentax shifting their K1000 plant from Japan to China, and a new willingness of famous brands to sell cameras whose only homegrown feature was the name on the prism. While late 90s bare bones plastic SLRs may offer an economically viable way into remanufacturing at a profit, the world is awash with hand made, Copal shutter Nikkormats for very little money.
For me, biggest problem with most film cameras are maintainability (including parts replacement). Most of us still use gears which are not supported anymore (or the manufacturers area dead for decades). No new parts = cannibilizing existing bodies.
I'd say maintaining large format cameras is easier, because much less moving parts involved. Not surpisingly, we see new large format camera manufacturer these days like Intrepid, Gibellini, Ondu, etc. Of course it's a smaller niche. It's very very unlikely a film photography beginner will purchase a Toyo or a Linhof.
It is but am I right in thinking that there arent any people making new large format lenses? At least affordable ones.
@@Benjohns89 Rodenstock still makes some, Large format was never meant to be cheap or affordable it's a pro format first and foremost
@@JPCl no that is true. But since intrepid are affordable it would make sense to have affordable lenses. It’s just that only having reasonably expensive options won’t keep film going for the masses. I’ve had 2 4x5 cameras over a few years, only took it seriously the second time and I had to sell it. I have too many expensive hobbies and the cost of film and the cost of a decent scanning setup pushed me away sadly.
I've got two of these cameras, rebranded as the Revue SC-4m and the Revue 100 Solar (yep, actually solar powered meter with capacitor for energy storage). They're not sexy but they're perfectly serviceable, and the combination of fully mechanical shutter, speeds up to 1/2000 and metal rather than cloth curtains actually makes them fairly competetive as mechanical SLRs go.
I've wondered out loud what keeps Cosina from bringing back those Voigtlander SLRs and rangefinders they made 15-20 years ago. They sell for ridiculous prices used, so I can only presume that if they could, they would've by now. (They still make lenses, so...?)
And Minolta merged with Konica, and then both were absorbed into Sony may years ago.
Konica merged with Minolta a few years before the switch to digital, they developped a few digital reflex cameras bearing Minolta Alpha mount. Then they sold their entire photo division to Sony, which continued the reflex alpha mount for a while, before rebooting the entire range into mirrorless. But Konica-Minolta still exist as a separate company (making photocopiers, desktop devices, printers) , they just don't produce photographic stuff anymore.
Thanks for the video. Actually I knew the Cosina was a lot of others, too but didn't it being so many others (even reading out the list made me start doing something else). But it makes one point obvious, a camera made in so many variants will be repairable in it's basic mechanics and another success of Cosina was for us filmshooters today to have mechanic bodies available for such a variety of lenses (mine are the Contax and the voigtländer r2c was the first camera in fifty years to take these, no adapter needed, I was quite excited). And yes, someone like Cosina could make a camera like this today but there are so many similar second hand available, aren't they? Some people might just throw them away when they see they don't earn big money like the analogue gurus promised. But some might just find their way to young enthusiats who may take pictures and don't care which companie's name is printed on the case and might, just like the big trades thougt back than, let these upcoming photographers join a whole world of capable lenses.
And yes, minolta left the arena years ago and sony inherited the A lensmount they now discontinued and some work on digital cameras which is now long bypassed I assume. Olympus started to redefine themselfs and Pentax is making a big fuzz about a camera the don't build themselfs and which is by far not as capable as the classic Cosina body. Cosina on the other hand seems to be pretty good in business making all the voigtländer branded lenses (some chinese companies might bit badly in their success selling MF lenses for M-mount and L39 but they are pretty impressive fast in developing something the various artisans have not on their webpage. The bessa L whatsoever is a pretty recent camera based on a relyable concept to utilize lenses you might have be giben by your granddad and are, apart from being plastic covered, propably more japanese craftmanship quality than the several USSR copies around (and I have two of these and not the bessa L). Best Albrecht
The Minolta you’re talking about is just an x370 clone but made in China by a company maybe named Seagull? I don’t really remember all of the details. To my knowledge, they never got a fully mechanical Cosina camera though, unfortunately.
I like the T-60. It has aperture priority if you want that, but also has a match-LED manual, which makes it unique among the FD cameras.
The vivitars are branded cosina underneath..Cosina Japan and the tls are fire bulletproof
Way way back in 1980 the first SLR I bought was a CT1 - at 14 years old - I was actually saving for a Voigtländer VSL 1 (massively discounted in UK) as I was Rollei obsessed. but just before I had enough money Rollei went through. At the time I couldn’t afford a Pentax MX on newspaper money - it was a fabulous camera and I think my niece may still use it - that did lead me into the world of K mount, but in 2000 after about 6 years of using nothing and selling ME Super, MX, P30 and Ricoh KR10 - the C Voigtländers appeared - in 2004 I got a R2 and the CV 25mm f4 and a year later an R (for the 35mm lens) and a CV 75mm lens then as a 40th Birthday present to myself a Zeiss Ikon ZM and a ZM Planar and along the way I picked up a L brand new which has still never been used but I also bought a Rollei SL2000f in 2008 the camera I actually always wanted all the way back then - sadly the Rollei Zeiss ZM and most of my vC glass was stolen in 2018 and as yet has not been replaced - however I now use a German made Rollei SL35 ( if you want back to basics thats the guy) about 4 qbm lenses, the Bessa R2 and Zeiss ZM planar and in K an MX with a K50 f1.4, 28 f2.8 and 135 f3.5 that were my late father in laws and a black ME Super. So at 58 - 44 years later my world has come full circle and much of has been spent using cameras based on the CT1 - its still a fabulous camera in what ever guise - though some of the late 90s iterations are very plastic where as the Bessa is basically the Cosina body that was the CT1 in 1984 - some plastic but metal enough and that copal shutter which just works
A more successful camera than the K1000?
I've been really enjoying Harman Phoenix. I got good results from the lab, but it's totally different scanning it at home (Epson V600). I'll definitely be stocking up on the 120. And I do unironically wish it was coming in 110.
The Cosina made OM2000 also has a multi-exposure lever (and spot meter). They’re nice.
A month ago I bought a Vivitar v335 which is a Cosina ct 1 super (1/2000 speed) for $25 with a 35-70 zoom lens. It turned out that the light meter also works without a problem. Thanks to that I could spend more money on a good lens with a pentax K mount instead of an expensive camera.
youre a treasure trove of knowledge and insight! thanks for uploading!
Picked up a Canon T60 a few years ago in very good condition. It has earned a place as my EDC camera. It doesn’t replace any of my other Canons, but it has amazed me in its handiness and ability.
I’ve always kind of wanted a Canon T60 but have never really wanted to go out of my way to get one, maybe after I sell some of my collection 😬
I enjoy Pentax because you can slap 50 years of K mount lenses on film or current digital cameras.
I’ve got two early Yashica FX-3 cameras and am surprised to see them on the Cosina list. I think there may be some lineage change after Yashica sold some of it manufacturing to China. On the link you posted it shows the FX-3 as the Super 2000 model.
Cosina made Contax and Yashica cameras in Japan.
Pentax p30t