An Electric vs Hand Sharpening Stones
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- Опубликовано: 18 май 2024
- Will electric sharpenings sharpen your knives better than Japanese whetstones?
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timecodes
0:00 electric sharpener vs whetstones
0:17 chef’s choice electric sharpener
0:35 Suehiro cerax 320 , 1000, rika 5000
1:13 how to sharpen knife on chef’s choice electric sharpener
2:50 chef’s choice review
3:10 what I hate about the chefs choice sharpener
4:26 why you shouldn’t use electric knife sharpeners
5:15 best combo whetstones
5:25 Suehiro CERAX 320 whetstone
5:30 Suehiro cerax 1k is the best soaking whetstone
5:45 why the Suehiro Rika 5k is the best soaking polishing whetstone
6:00 how long does it take to sharpen a knife on whetstones
6:23 electric sharpener vs whetstones cut test
6:45 who are electric sharpeners made for?
7:25 knife cutting ASMR
8:39 electric sharpener or whetstone sharpening
9:49 electric sharpening limitations
9:58 whetstones are better for knives than electric sharpeners
10:14 objective knife comparison?
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I think the electric sharpener is good for getting the job done. The wetstone is for the passion of it.
Amen... Concise and to the point!
@Levi Fox Work Sharp WSKTS-KO is pretty good.
I have both. I use the machine for a quick full re-edge, then i finish it off with a 3000 grit.
@Levi Fox nah you're just dumb
Well said
Hi! I'm using a three stage Chef's Choice for over a year now; it's not a regular one, but the Trizor edge. It will convert all your knifes to a 15 degree angle, which is pretty much standard on Japanese knifes. I have over 20 professional kitchen knifes (Wusthof Classic, Shun and Zwilling Pro), as well as Wusthof Classic steak knifes. All are now on the 15 degree angle and all I can say, the converted ones are A M A Z I N G!!! The Shuns are as they should be since there is no much difference in angles there. I got to the point where I only do third stage on regular basis and second stage when needed, but that is at a 3-4 month between doing that. The machine holds pretty well with no difference to first time use. The motor is super quiet as well. One thing I want to point out, which I know for sure people don't necessarily know about it, is the lever on the back of the machine which allows you to clean-up the third stage disc. Also, there is a tray with a magnet which should be emptied periodically. I also converted my Kershaw pocket knife and boy o boy is it from another planet... One more thing, on this machine (the Trizor edge), first stage cuts deep into the blade. This is the stage which does the conversion. It will also take care of your dents or chips without a blink. I thought my input would make sense since I'm using this device extensively for over a year, now. Have a good one! Oh, one more thing, it does serrated knifes as well :)
A Dude I just bought the same electric machine to sharpen my knives, and I absolutely love it. I just got so tired of the stones routine!
I also got that 15 degree machine and love it. Once converted, stage 3 is all I need to bring it back to very very cool indeed.
@@KevinBReynolds One year later, I'm really happy someone found my two cents helpful... I noticed I forgot to say that in this video the sharpener is not used correctly. The blade needs to be hold against the "wall" guide so that it will allow each and every time for the same angle, also this will prevent unwanted surface scratches. Never ever have I scratched one of my knives...
@Big Foot It's the CHEF'S CHOICE (that's the brand and the Model is TRIZOR EDGE XV. I believe the XV stays for 15 because it will convert any knife to 15 degrees. You need to know something about this machine: IT IS AMAZING!!! So, what it does is, converting any knife to 15 degrees. This would be the first pass (stage); second pass is the sharpening on the new geometry and third stage is honing (polishing), or call it as you wish... I own the bigger knives form Shun (Chef's, Santoku and then the smaller tomato and the boning one, and the rest of my 25+ knives are Wusthof classik. The Shun don't need much of a conversion, but the Wusthof needed some and they are now better than from factory with the new geometry. I sharpen them once every 3-4 month and only some honing (one pass) in-between. Take care and let me know how happy you are!
@@A.Dude. Just got this as well. It works amazingly well! I was able to fix all my chipped and dull knives. I tried my Japanese knives and it was... okay? The 3rd stage doesn't give the love of a whetstone, its just more of a knife pit-stop to keep it running as well as it can. So if you just need to revitalize your whole kitchen's cutlery, get the electric. If you want to love and maintain a high quality Japanese knife set, stick with the whetstones.
Be honest, most people have a drawer full of dull knives in there homes, the electric sharpener would make those people brag about how sharp their knives have become
Exactly I got one of those a couple years ago and took it to a couple other houses and sharpened all of their knives. It even will convert a crap knife into the proper japanese angle. Also if you use it on your knives more often you can skip the longest part and just use the final two stages.
Where are u from? I think its not such a big deal in germany... all the people i know have sharp knives at home, including me...
@@derpenetrator9404 In Japan, young generation people just buy a new cheap knife when it become dull. Only old people knows how to use whetstone.
@@ZERONEINNOVATIONS maybe they should learn the skill and not buy cheap throw away knives there's a reason why the older generation is using whetstones they know better from experience...
@@derpenetrator9404 , you couldn’t sound more like more pretentious European if you tried.
I wasted one year with "mastering" my whetstone technique, but the results was terrible. I did buy a Chef's Choice 120 electric sharpener, and used it for two years with great satisfaction. And what i do nowadays? Back to whetstones again, because i wanna get better!
Birodalom1 get the ceramic Spyderco stones they don’t dish out and u can use them dry get a nice strop and your perfect
its all about the angle and keeping the angle. patience and precision is key. thats the hard part, but once you get it, its so satisfying!
@@snowkeu2327 I have hand tremors, that keep me from using wet stones
How can you tell the difference between water stones and oil stones? Or is there not a difference?
@@strangerdanger187 I’m new to stones but I got both and I’m not a fan of the whetstone because it like dissolves. But it’s a cheap ass one lol
Very well done. In the past year I bought medium quality whetstones and two mediocre electric sharpeners because I cook a lot and have Henkel knives that needed sharpening. I'm just a guy that loves to cook and wants a sharp knife to do it with. I want my sharpening to be easy and quick and if it cuts paper like he did here I'm a happy guy. Squishy tomato's will be a breeze. My conclusions are exactly what he said. The learning curve, the time and how sharp I need a knife became the issue. I bought a "Chefs Choice Trizor XV". Their best. $125 US dollars. I sharpened my 5 knives exactly the way he described here. I am such a happy guy. I will never be without my electric Trizor again. 5 minutes per knife and they haven't been this sharp since birth. Woohoo!
My feelings as if it matters are: Whetstones are an art and will always produce a better, sharper edge if I'm willing to put in the time. I'm not. I just want a sharp knife. The electric sharpener did just that. I wish I had bought the Chefs Choice Trizor first.
That smile of satisfaction when he tested the second knife says it all
Freehand whetstone snobs will always berate an electric sharpener. And that's fine. Like knives, sharpening is also a personal preference. But a high quality electric sharpener, like the Chef's Choice sharpeners, has a place in many homes, restaurants, commercial and catering kitchens. If you have high end handmade Japanese knives an are a sushi chef, then you will be doing the requisite care and maintenance on those knives require, including ritual waterstone sharpening, and an electric knife sharpener is not part of that.
For many people, whetstone sharpening is an obsessive hobby unto itself. Most chefs aren't into that hobby. They just want to get their tools sharp enough to do the job at hand. I know many chefs with mad knife skills that couldn't care less about learning the fine points of meditative waterstone sharpening. I also know people who can put an insane edge on a blade but standing over a cutting board have the refined knife skills of a cabbage. Chefs Choice sharpeners are great sharpeners for anyone that isn't interested in turning kitchen knife sharpening into a hobby. Nothing wrong with the edges they turn out, and if you use them properly, they won't wear a knife out any quicker than a whetstone used on a frequent basis. All knives wear out if you resharpen them as often as they need it.
The Chef's Choice sharpener will remove as much metal as you let it remove. So will a waterstone. I have a Chef's Choice model 120, which is the same as the Wusthof Ptec in this video, except the 120 gives a 20 degree edge. Stage 1 is the rough equivalent of a 220-400 grit coarse stone. You would only use that Stage on extremely dull knives or to set a new bevel because it removes a considerable amount of metal, same as a 300 grit stone would. For most kitchen knives, particularly Western knives (be it Wusthof, Chicago Cutlery, whatever) this would be once a year, if even that often.
Stage 2 is closer to the 1000 grit stone, which is where you'd start when resharpening your dull-ish knives if the Stage 3 stropping were no longer effective. Stage 2 removes metal, but like a 1000 grit stone, not that much unless you go nuts and run it through there half a dozen or more times on a regular basis. Once or twice is usually plenty to create a bur. For most home kitchen knives, you'd use Stage 2 once a month or every other month.
Stage 3 is the polishing/stropping stage, and removes virtually no metal. It does, but it's in the 4000-5000 equivalent grit range, so metal removal is minimal. Depending on how much you use the knife, Stage 3 is the daily or weekly honing to align a rolled or wavy edge, same as steeling or stropping on leather for realignment.
First-time sharpening a knife on the Chef's Choice using all 3 Stages, and it'll take 2, 3, 4 minutes. After that, though, it's literally a 10 second operation to polish and stop for routine maintenance. For someone who has no interest or the time to invest in developing whetstone sharpening skills, that's a hard argument to make. And it's why Chef's Choice electric sharpeners are so popular in so many restaurants and commercial kitchens.
A western kitchen knife will perform well between 800-1000 grit (or even coarser depending upon its usage and toothiness desired). A heavy chef knife like a Wusthof, there's little benefit in taking it higher than 1000-2000 grit (I finish mine on the Green Brick of Joy, for example, although it will polish more like a 3000-4000 grit stone if you use it in that manner). Same with a boning knife, or a straight edge steak knife, where you want a little toothiness there, and 1000-3000 grit is the max you'd want to go to keep that toothiness and have a decent edge retention. Paring knives, carving knives, things like that, you want a more refined edge, so 3000 or higher is where you would be going. A nakiri or other thin blade knife (including a fish filet knife, etc.), not only do you want an angle more along the 10-15 degree range, you want a more refined edge. I take those knives through grits up to an 8000 Kitayama, My preferred strops for my Western kitchen knives, incidentally, are plain leather, newspaper, and denim, usually without compound. My Japanese knives get more refinement.
A sharpening hobbyist will routinely take their edges to beyond 5,000 grit, to 10,000 grit and beyond. But they'll spend a lot more time doing so than you spend with the Chef's Choice, and they aren't using Western knives. That, or the sharpened edge is far more the object of desire unto itself than is an effective kitchen cutting tool. I know a guy who puts an incredibly fine edge on his chef knife, and it's good for about one tomato. Then he has to resharpen it. But he's more of a sharpening enthusiast than he is cooking enthusiast.
I've run the gamut with my knives from occasional home use to intense restaurant work. I have a full compliment of oil stones, Japanese waterstones, and a Chef's Choice model 120. I have honing steels that range from glass rods to metal to ceramic to diamond. I use all of these on my knives, depending on the purpose of the sharpener, the type knife I'm sharpening, and the steel the knife is made of. Some of my knives are better suited to the oil stones, some to the waterstones, and some are perfectly happy with the Chef's Choice.
Some people get by very nicely with just a Chef's Choice and a honing steel. They're happy with having sharp knives, but aren't obsessed with polished edges and such. Others get by just fine with a 400 and 1000 grit stone, maybe a 5000 grit thrown in there. The best knife in the world is the one that feels great in your hand and does what you need it to do. Full stop. The same is true with sharpening, where the ways and means that achieve your desired outcome is the best.
I will say that someone who goes to Walmart, Target, Amazon, wherever, and buys a 12-18 piece knife block for $150 or less, a Chef's Choice 3-stage electric sharpener is probably right in their wheelhouse. It's a way for them to quickly and easily keep their knives sharp, without having to zen out with a slurry. For others who may be interesting in more of the details of sharpening and angles, who want something more versatile than an electric sharpener, but yet no matter what they do cannot seem to get or keep an edge freeballing on a stone, then the guided sharpening systems may be better for them.
Incidentally, an electric sharpener will, absolutely, scratch the blades of your knives. But they are generally very minor scratches that can be easily polished out if it bothers you. It doesn't bother me at all, as it doesn't affect the performance of the knife in any way. I don't have a clue how Ryky managed to get those long, mean, ugly, OMG gouges on that knife. If I saw that I'd never use an electric sharpener, either. Having said that, while I do use my Chef's Choice sharpener rather regularly for certain knives, I wouldn't put my hammered or Damascus knives in there, the ones I bought as much for the look and finish as I did for their performance. Even the minor scratches on those knives would be more annoying than I could handle.
Ken Slaughter Bro, take it easy😂 its a fucking youtube video, not an essay for school
Ken ,That is a great reply and I was wondering also how he got those scratches but certainly that would be impossible with my multiple CC machines..
Mate: TLDR
TLDR, but does this guy work for an electric sharpener company...
Thank you very much for this comment, i think i will invest in af ches model sharpener, all of my knives are german and i usually send them away to be sharpened about every 6 months to a year and maintain them with a ceramic rod. But i think the chefs model will be worth the investment as i do not care whether my kniv will slice or push cut trough paper, slice is fine for me
8:07 you can see such happiness in his eyes
I’m still learning this craft and love it. I started because I wanted to be able to take care of my knives. I find it very soothing.
I had an electric sharpener but felt blind.
And I find the scratches irritating. 🙂
Thank you taking the time to do this comparison/evaluation. Much respect.
Well done. Very unbiased, balanced analysis. In particular two things stood out for me.
1) the way you were careful to note when you were speculating vs. stating a fact.
2) you consider the skill of the person in sharpening results
These two things really go to the credibility of the analysis; I trust what you said. Again, extremely well done!
Great comparison. I would say that while I would LOVE whetstones. I am a working man with three little kids and I think i need the convenience of the electric.
this is my first time on your channel and I've started getting into knives and i really appreciate the quality of your videos, keep up the good work.
At my work we use a professional electric blade sharpener and whetstones, for those not familiar with whetstones there is electric and for more experienced the whetstones add the little bit extra. That is specifically for meat cutting and I've gotten a fish gutting knife from not cutting threw cardboard to shaving quality. I've found a mixture to be the best, plus it saves time. Quick grind to sharp from electric then whetstone to razor. I've also even restored a boxknife razor blade to razor with electric.
I really enjoyed this vid--great flow, loved the grey scale color scheme (felt classy), and perfect length.
Cameron that’s what she said.
The problem is that most people don't have the experience like you, so they don't sharpen a knife like you, and the machine will work better for them.
"Practice makes perfect"
It’s so easy to learn honestly. If you spend that much on a machine as opposed to learning, you’re a moron
If you watched the whole video, you'd have heard him literally say this as a con to whetstones.
indeed!
@@antony9956 .. My son-in-law is a Sushi Chef, lives with us and we had dull knives until yesterday when I received my new Chef’sChoice 15 Trizor XV. After my first attempt as a total Noob and his leather strop he says their ready to cut Sushi...I'm "good" as long as they can bone a chicken and thinly slice through tomatoes and onions.
Thanks for the vid, i was always curious to see the difference between a good quality machine sharpener and expert stone hand sharpening. For me, the machine sharpeners have been for people that generally pay someone to sharpen their knives but find they don't have the time (like over holidays, or simply forgot) or don't care to learn how to use stones by hand.
You're obviously a professional. I'm simply a home cook & I like sharp knives. You've given me all the info I need. Thank you!
I've got a Chef's Choice Trizor XV which sharpens at a 15 degree angle...and it really works well.....I agree with Burrfection about the lines it leaves in the knives, though......what I do now, that only takes a few extra moments, is I put blue painters tape on the knife, covering all the area except for the actual part of the blade being sharpened...and that has eliminated the issue.
as long as i can cut tomatoes easily without splattering it its enough for me lol
It’s tomatoes, peppers, onions and the like for me!
I’ve tried those electric sharpeners without success. I’ve only used my wet stone once and obtained a sharp edge. Just think after some practice that I may possibly get an edge like you have achieved... I’ll be a happy guy
My electric knife sharpener works great for my needs. I did buy an inexpensive whetstone that I'm going to practice with but for now it works!
im actually here for sharpening stone for my camp knives ... i actually find ur vid very helpful in multiple ways ... watched like 2 to 3 of ur vids so far and finally discided on purchasing a King KDS .. Thank you so much for your help!
I have some manual pull through sharpeners and feel like they don’t do much of anything. Due to said learning curve I got a fixed angle system that works great! I do have a combo stone that I practice on sometimes, but for sharp knives, I break out my fixed angle rig. It does take longer to sharpen a knife due to the smaller surface area of the stones. Generally 3-5 minutes for setup and 10-15 for sharpening up to 6k grit. I can shave hair with that, so I’m happy with it.
I, too, wish you would try a Ken Onion Worksharp. I have stones, which I use all the time, but when I want something done quickly, I use the Worksharp. It can also scratch the blade longitudinally, but that is easily fixed with masking tape on the guide. I have two other requests:
1. As another poster said, please find a good microscope, show us why you picked it, and use it for your results
2. Please post a video on sharpening serrated knives - you promised over a year ago
Thanks
Sold! I’ll go with the whetstones over a mechanical sharpener, any day. Sharpening a knife is one of the most relaxing/rewarding things you can do. Thanks for the video!
can we start calling them wetstones and drop the uncessary h, this isn't 1720 England :D
@@JohnDoe-bk6ig Go ahead….what’s stopping you?
@@JohnDoe-bk6ig Word nerd here and technically the word "whet" means to sharpen, so the term basically means "sharpening stone." Not all whetstones are water stones.
Mastery is always a joy to watch. I just watched 11 mins. of someone sharpening a knife and am glad I did.
Top channel, informative, accessible, interesting and unbiased, keep it up. :)
Thank you Chef’s Choice 15 Trizor XV!!! 👍🏻
I have a Chef's Choice electric sharpener....and each issue you described applies to me, as well. Cutting into the guides, and worse, the scratches on the side of the blade (though I noticed some sizes of knives get them worse than others).
One thing I've done, that seems to work, is I will put blue painters tape on the blade, as low to the edge as I can, before sharpening. I've found that this does keep the scratches from forming.
As far as chips....I had a couple of inexpensive knives with some fairly large chips, and I was quite pleased with the results I got using the electric sharpener.
My biggest issue with manually sharpening on stones like you, is judging the angle. I just don't see how I could possibly eyeball a 15 degree angle, vs a 12 degree angle, for instance...and then keep it completely steady throughout the process.
I've tried stones a few times, and always made the blade worse after the attempt.....I know it's just a matter of gaining experience, but it's still risky for me to try and sharpen "good" knives that way.
For those who can.....then I would imagine it's the better way to go.
The painter's tape idea is really good!
@@NeoRimeOnline It's a little bit of a hassle, but it does actually work, so I've found it to be worth the "trouble".
Great video. This is the very path I took a decade ago with the chef's choice sharpener (not the newer 15deg version). You are spot on with this review. My cheaper knives (low rockwell) sharpened quickly on this machine but the higher rockwell knives seemed almost impossible to sharpen. At the same time, I was using a Lansky system (non-diamond) and the experience was the same but the Lansky edge was better. Having said that, the struggle to get the good hand eye coordination needed for a stone is ongoing. I still need the Lansky to re-profile or fix chips before I can move to a stone. I do enjoy working with a stone far more than the other methods. If you had posted this video 10 years ago I would have that hand eye coordination already :) . To anyone watching this video, go the stone route first, you will never regret it,.
Just ordered a set of wetstones.... excited to learn and perfect!
Had an electric sharpener for years and was pretty happy with it. But I've moved to stones. Over time I felt the electric wasn't doing as fine a job as it was when new - although that was after fifteen years of use. And I have to say I started getting exposed to some much better knives and was astonished at the sharpness. Perhaps it's a passion for it, but I'm now after the sharpest edges I can get.
The second whetstoned knife gave the presenter a sharp-gasm when he started cutting paper with it.. Serious sharpening skills right there....
Good explanation..keep up the good work..
RUclips has brought us together again
Nice to see you
Great review, just ordered chefschoice because I got frustrated with the whetstones and actually scratched my really expensive japanese knives in the middle of the blade way more than you described machine did. You are a master and a sharpness nut and I totally envy you but for my everyday use this machine really does the work. Thanks for the review it really helped because I thought these machines were a total bummer.
Glad I could help!
Have you looked in to guided sharping systems like Razor edge Systems? I know the idea of clamping a guide on the knife isn't very sexy but the inventor knows his shit.
Curious to hear what your experience with the electric sharpener is. I also have a rather expensive Japanese knife made with soft steel that got dented over time, and wonder whether the electric sharpener would do the job or as many here say, could damage it.
An expression I never hear but use is “sharp enough for the job at hand”
You like what you do, I dig it. Subscribed!
Great video. This definitely helps a newbie learn and make their own choices. Now I'm off to buy some stones.
Have you tried the Suehiro Debado 400 SNE? I'm thinking about buying it for professional use
ariel p quiero ver Mbean
“Just very sexy” ....perfect use of words for a cutting knife 😂
This is a helpful video. Thank you.
Dude your channel is amazing, really good info you share with us here. keep up the great work dude.
welcome
How well will the electric sharpener work over time -- will it give an edge like that a year from now? Three years from now? Can the parts be replaced over time?
Cast Iron Chaos better off enjoy learning sharpening on whetstones. In my opinion no machine can replace human hands.
Electric sharpeners are garbage
That is neither fair or accurate Dreamy. are there garbage sharpeners out here sure but there are good ones too that will provide a perfectly servicable edge to the avg home user like the Chefs Choice ones
very very good points. Also how much steel is being scraped off by diamond and tungsten, shortening the life of the knife?
Yes, parts are expensive and rarely user replaceable. If they did, they almost certainly couldn't get the right angle or make them symmetrical.
Yes, it will give an edge 3 years down the line if you sharpen once every two months only but the small abrasives weat out and even notch quickly.
Those of use that use diamond plates know that the method of adhesion really varies in quality vs cost. How much do you guys honestly think a 130 dollar machine can spend on adhering their abrasives when they have to pay for motor, housing and assembly in the price point?
Jon Soo, You BOTH have a point. Yes, machines like the various chefs choice are good enough for the average housewife. But they're probably not good enough for a long term solution for a gourmet home cook and certainly not a professional cook.
Dreamy, is right, there is NO comparison, but dreamy, not everyone has the skill, or the time to build the skill. If you're a housewife with a bunch of cutcos on your counter that are never sharpened, this is a good alternative. For the housewives that think that a honing rod is a "sharpener", then this is much better. If you are a home cook and you can't afford to send your knives to a professional sharpener, this is an alternative.
But dreamy is right, I'd never put a good blade in one of these. these wear out knives faster. You cannot change the one or two degree angles they have. Once it's misaligned, you're in major trouble. Once one of the sides of an abrasive element go bad, of dented, or become malaligned, every single knife will have the same defect
Great unbiased review, and very satisfying to watch: muted, minimalistic colours and nothing to distract from the subject matter.
Thank you so very much for recommending an 'all in one' (if necessary) that isnt insanely expensive. The Cerax 1000 stone seems like the best option if you can't get multiple stones or can't afford a $100+ one. $40ish is very reasonable for such a quality stone. Many of us are having a hard time in these days of chaos n illness n just cant afford to spend even $50 for a stone. Bless you for your positivity and the huge effort you put into every vid. I'm glad that this 3 y/o vid popped up on my feed along w your current ones. I will buy a Cerax 1000 as soon as I'm able. Thank you again.
Your video was easy to understand, interesting to watch and told me all I needed to know before I bought the Electric and I am decent with wet stones. Of course the blackfriday price of $79 sealed the deal. Thanks for your efforts.
My setup is a $50 harbor Freight belt sander and a $25 belt kit with 600, 800, 1000 grit and a leather belt. Scary sharp knives fast. And I can still use the sander for other projects.
You can sharpen a chisel too
Does the sander mess up the heat treating where you have to sharpen them frequently
Shawn Warnick It won’t mess it up if you keep water near by to dip it in after each pass and keep the temperatures down in the steel.
Same.. use the 1000 grit and the leather strop belt from Amazon. Perfect for kitchen knives. I use my stones for my straight razors. I can do a whole knive block with all chips and profiling fixed with a mirror finish in about 20 minutes.
I'll wager you wore your MAGA cap when you went to HF and bought a cheap Chinese knockoff and then bitch that your place of business is moving to China and America is going to hell!
The conclusion favoring manual stones is only of interest to knife aficionados or a professional who sharpens regularly enough to maintain the skills required to use manual stones. For ordinary household use, get something that maintains the edge angle itself. I fooled around trying to sharpen knives manually for many years before wising up. Instead of a steel, I use the Furi Ozitech Diamond Fingers. For sharpening, I use the Lansky system. And I have no use for arguments based on the aesthetics of how the finished edge looks.
Which lansky system are you using? Thanks, many Blessings.
@@WarGrrl3 A standard set with 3 stones (160, 220, and 600 grit) that’s over 15 years old. I have also purchased the Lansky strop “stone” to use with the system.
@@mencken8 thank you. I like lanky n have had good results. Just needed to know which one is better. Thanks for your help.
Thanks. Great vid. Good balance of data & demonstrations. Thoroughly honest. You really got it right here. This should serve as an example of how to do this sort of video. Seriously!
your comments are spot on, I get the electric sharper for my restaurant where we do not need a super fine sharp edge. most important to us is to get a working knife in a short time so we can get back to work. I worked with wet stones before and there is a sexiness of getting that suer sharp knife when you are working with fish ir butchering some steaks but that's not what we need so the electrical sharpener is the tool for us. You are right on mentioning that IT WILL take you some time (weeks or months) to master the technical moves to get a super sharp knife. thank you for the info
thank you for your honest input. i'm glad i wasn't laying !
A few observations. All my kitchen knives and EDC knives are 60 and above Rockwell hardness. Everyday I use my knives I strop them on a rolled Buffalo hide strop with 15k diamond paste and hardly ever use a stone to my knives. That said i sharpened a lot of knives for customers with knives of a lot lower Rockwell hardness. The issue is yes I can get them very sharp but with the lower hardness and lack of daily maintenance I often hear yes they were very sharp when I got them back from you but now they are dulling. Well can I teach and get my customers to buy a strop and polish and show them how to maintain a knife..no I cannot .. anyways I tell them to buy a electronic sharpener and use at least once a week to maintain sharpness and bring back to me when they basically need it repaired from chips or buy a good knife and learn the basic skills. Kinda of rude but it is the basic truth .
Terence Selfe, you should recommend a fixed angle sharpening system. You are right about people not maintaining knives. Very frustrating!
Nothing at all that you can do about this. When i sharpen a knife for a friend my basic rule is to look at how abused the knife is and sharpen at a greater angle for those that get no love. 10 to 20deg for me depending on knife. 20-25deg for those that i see regularly and look after their knives. 30-35deg for those that bring me something as sharp as a butter knife and say "it dosent work as good as it used to". You will never get that nice edge at 35deg but it will last them for the next 6 months and most people will be happy with that.
Tony Hall that s a good rule of thumb. I do that to some extent. First time customers or friends I try to show them just how their knives can be and hope it will motivate them to maintain their knives better but usually to no avail .😂
Tony Hall… I have a similar approach. If a knife is from a "bad home", I'll sharpen it at a higher angle. For those that _might_ have a chance, I've recently given their owners a homemade strop loaded with some green compound and a bit of instruction (including a link to one of Ryky's stropping vids!). I've only done that with a couple different relatives so far, and it's too early to know whether theirs will become a better home to their knives. 🤞🏼
Then they brag about how sanitary their glass cutting board is...
for a $25 Victorinox Fibrox this sharpener works swell.
but, if you are investing into high quality steel, you should also invest into higher quality stones.
High quality steel? Is that...Hatori Hanzo steel?
This is a great demo video. I use paring knives in my work to cut foam and cardboard. And I have a few (pretty) good knives in my kitchen. I also carry good pocket knives from Kershaw and Buck. This video and the comments convinced me that I'm at the level of user where a 3 stage electric sharpener would be a significant improvement over my current methods without me having to start a new hobby. I learned a lot from a few of your videos, perhaps later I will try the wet stones. Thank you
Your videos are GREAT! You are a pro, I am a 76 yr old beginner but I hunt and need a sharp knife to skin and clean deer and other wild meat. I have never been good at sharpening a knife but made due. I am not concerned about some minor scratches on my regular hunting, skinning knives. I don't want to spend a lot of learning time to get knives sharp like yours (wish I could) maybe I will! so for the time being I will purchase a easy to use electric one. Thanks so much for your videos I watch a lot of them and hope to learn, and yes I did subscribe!
Not biased at all. Good review. Whetstones are superior for the person who has the time and desire to (learn to) use them. For the person who just wants to sharpen some undamaged, not high-end kitchen knives, they might consider the sharpener.
He is comparing a sharpening technique he’s used for one day to a technique he’s mastered over years. How don’t see that bias?
@@dryananderson There's zero technique involved in electric sharpener.
@@gibsonflyingv2820 Only someone who has never used an electric sharpener would say something so ignorant. I don't mean that as an insult, just that you clearly have not used an electric sharpener. For example, how you move the knife as the tip passes through the sharpener matters. Whether you start the motor with the knife engaged with the sharpener or lower the knife into the sharpener matters. The speed at which you draw the knife through and the number of passes you take before switching sides matters. These variables change from sharpener to sharpener too. To say "there is zero technique: is so obviously wrong that anyone even thinking about this for a few seconds can see how vacant such an uninformed statement that is.
@@dryananderson Bro, I can see you are passionate so I don't want to embarrass you.
But I've been a certified cutler/sharpener/polisher for over 12 years. What you get out of these electric sharpeners is not only a far inferior edge in regards to almost any grind you want for said knife designed to perform perfectly for that profile. But it also takes little to no skill or technique/artistry whatsoever. True blade polishing on an artisan level is achieved using eyesight, sound, proper and consistent techniques and your own distinct rhythm. Not to mention your stone types and stagings depending on the blades unique profile. You can never achieve a distinct cut with these things, and compared to hand sharpening its like comparing a guitar god whose mastered every style to a dub step artist. Maybe not zero skill but clearly far less than other methods.
@@gibsonflyingv2820
Not passionate, I just have used both techniques and it is important to point out that there is technique as I described. That is a fact. I explained my point with a clear description of technique. In the end, you agreed with me when you said "maybe not zero skill but clearly far less than other methods." Exactly. There is some skill. Stones are harder, sure. But people who prefer stones often underestimate the technique needed with sharpeners and get subpar results and blame the machine, not themselves.
The fact that you have to use personal insults and appeal to your 200 years as a grand master sharpener to make your point says a lot. Just a lot of empty posturing. Someone here should be embarrassed, and it isn't me. But since you ultimately agreed you were wrong and that the machines do take technique, there is nothing more to say. You should practice more sharpening. Your 12 years clearly isn't enough.
There are Electro sharpeners for asian knifes (15° Angle) you have used an electric sharpener meant for European knifes (20° angle).
European and Asian knives have the same edge. It mostly depends on what they're going to be used for.
Resident of a Potter's field No very wrong
Hey love your videos. I’ve been sharpening my own knives a long time. I have the chosera whetstones, the Worksharp, the electric Chef choice very similar to this vid. And the $500 Edge Pro. What I like is wicked sharp knives so when I’m sharpening my knives (Shun, and Dalstrong) I use either the whetstones or The Edge Pro. BUT my wife will cut herself every time if I sharpen her knives (Chicago Cutlery, and other assorted ok knives) wicked sharp (she gets nervous I think) so I sharpen hers with the Chefs Choice.
Good choice. Good explanation. Good work, so excellent overall. Thanks.
Here’s my final conclusion: that’s sharper than any knife I have ever used personally. I drop a lot of things even knives, could see one of those knives going straight through my foot... but it would be nice to see a rundown on how you personally sharpen these utensils. Top right corner? 😉
ᎢᎧᎧᎦCHᎾᎾL FᎧᎡCᎾᎾᏝ very name, laugh maybe?
Great review! I know you're personally biased towards whetstones, but I think you did a good job at remaining open minded and as objective as possible.
Hey Ryky, One additional problem with the Chefs Choice is when you have knives with bolsters, as a lot of European manufacturers use. I was hoping you were going to choose one of those for the comparison. With the excessive grinding the electric sharpener does, my knives have a dip in them about 3-4mm from the bolster, because the bolster hits the guide, and doesn't allow the full edge to get sharpened. This caused me to go to hand sharpening full time, which, after a lot of practice, gives me a superior edge. So maybe the electric was a blessing in disguise???
Very nice comparison! I am using a Chef's Choise sharpener which gives me great result and I am really happy with it. Using it every 2-3 months once in a while. But I do understand that the wetstone technique is on a whole different level. Do love watch your videos, so see what is possible with the right tools, technique and the right passion.
Good stuff, and a fair assessment. Question: Thinning the secondary. Have you done a vid on this process? How can you tell when you are at that point that an edge will need thinning. etc? Thx. Dave outside Austin, TX
he hasn't yet, but he has said it is in the works. Most of his blades are newer so he hasn't had the need to do it yet, but he IS planning on doing a vid
Some people don't have the time to hand sharpen a knife. "Good enough for meat and veg" accomplishments will beat "perfect edge" all the time when there's a hungry family to worry about. Good video👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼. I like a cleaner edge, personally.
Peter XYZ that’s why take out was invented. LoL!!! 😋
This was a GREAT video demo. I would love to see eventually using the highest(?) end electric sharpener against very high-end stones, as a comparison. I have a Shun chef's knife that I hardly use because I won't want to dull it, and I am unsure if the person I have been bringing my Damascus blades to is seasoned enough for the job.
I think you gave an honest opinion. They are the best type of comparison videos. Thank you.
I appreciate that!
@@Burrfection 👍🔪
how does it compare to Chef’sChoice 15 Trizor XV EdgeSelect Professional Electric Knife Sharpener? Thanks...
I have that sharpener, and I like it a lot. It gets all of my knives to where they feel plenty sharp enough for me.
To be fair, if I had put the time and effort into developing the level of skill that he clearly has with stones, I would probably go that route, but thats typical of any activity in which one can build expertise. As your level of skill increases, so does the need for finer and finer tools...but do be aware that the law of diminishing returns does apply. For me, an edge finer than that which the electric sharpener provides is an example where the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.
*I mean no disrespect towards the gentleman in the video. He is obviously highly skilled, and I appreciate anyone who takes the time develop any skill to that high of a level.
**My opinion is just that; my opinion. My opinion is based on my training, skill, and experience...yours may vary.
Hope this helps!
I do have a chef choice electric diamond sharpener, And I personally didn't like how it worked with knives with a bolster and how much material it took off. That is why I switched to wet stones for those two reasons.
Just my 2cents.
After researching and watching yours, and other’s, videos, these three stones are the ones I have ordered to start learning to sharpen, but would like to add a high grit finish stone to the set and would love your recommendation in the sub$150 range. I see you go up to 8000 often, but I haven’t seen you go higher than that..?
Great to see such varied feedback on the Whetstone vs Electric Sharpener debate
My suggestion: As your channel seems to focus on sharpening knives, you really should invest in a microscope to show how the edge of a knife really looks like. I have heard you say many times "I do not have a microscope...", well, do not apologize, just get a damn microscope!!
pev you wouldnt see much under comercial microscope.
@@JimboJuice, actually it's worth pointing out that by the magnification point where it would be worth having the microscope, that microscope is going to be expensive... on the order of several THOUSAND dollars, and those are the "cheap-o" kind.
Unfortunately, I've had the privilege of examining cutting edges under such scopes... AND for the record, you're not going to get steel to a sharpness that cleanly beats a hand-napped obsidian blade. In a peculiar point of fact, current plastic surgeons even prefer to specially order obsidian blades for their scalpels to minimize scarring patients. ;o)
@@gnarthdarkanen7464 industrial microscopes vs commercial microscopes review!
@@christopherboucher2887, If only I could find the sponsors for THAT...(lolz) OR maybe someone will eventually in due time...
Dubiously more serious, however, there ARE other technical methods to get some magnification without ridiculous expense... but I'd worry that the limits wouldn't benefit this sort of hobby very much.
Similar to telescopes, there's really not a lot of need in a perfect cylindrical form to an "optical" type microscope, so a person could "get away with" building one out of about any container into which the framing and adjustments could be fixed... then it's more a matter of aligning lenses and fine tuning for focus, and the aperture gathering enough light to see anything of detail...
In other words, the cheap version, COULD be a "DIY" video first, approaching the principles of optics and thinking in regard to getting the "best up close shot for a knife edge"... and then magnifications and a look at the finished product and image, should it be visible by digital camera...
Personally, I've managed to get some "manual shots" by lining up a camera with a telescope without too much hell to play... SO it's PLAUSIBLE. I'm still kind of screwing around with bugs and kinks in that direction, optically speaking... BUT experimentation takes time... especially when you don't have a BIG BIG BUDGET. ;o)
Toasty Oreos oof, found the 12 year-old
I think your review was fair, but I’d like to also see you compare to a belt sharpener like the ken onion work sharp.
Paul McCATney I would as well!!
Work Sharp makes a kitchen version of that too under the name Work Sharp Culinary.
I have( had ) an onion; pathetic ; knife sharpening is ALL about consistancy and the workunsharp is not. Any guides in the gizmo allow way too much variation through each pull. The chefs choice “hugs” the blade all through the pull at a set angle that the operator cannot easily over ride. You can easily burn off metal with the ko and upon every stroke! Even wet stones are better thn the ko since threr is no flex of the abrasive surface. For most of those demanding a sharp edge; a good electric is best; those more demanding with time not an issue; a metal swing arm setup is best it gets.(IMHO)
Ryky! Beautifully unbiased and great review!
Totally not biased, not at all... not even a little bit?...
Thank you very much I learned a lot from that thank you
Great video. Is there any ways you could do a close up of the side of the stone while you sharpen a knife? I want to get a better rough idea of the sharpening angle. I really want to buy a knife and stone, but I have very little money to play with, so if I but an Yaxell Dragon and scratch it up or ruin the cutting edge on the first sharpening it will kill me lol.
Zombie OTR buy a 5 dollar knife from Walmart to learn to sharpen on and a 20$ dual sided wet stone it’s a softer knife and a cheap one of you mess it up. It’s how I learned to sharpen. Once it gets razor sharp, run it on a brick to dull it and learn to sharpen the knife again. Once you get the hang of it, you will have more confidence in sharpening for when it comes time to sharpen a dragon (which won’t be often) as they are amazing knives just like the nexus brand is as well. The dragon fusions are back in stock but I would guess not for long!! I bought another fusion so I can have 2!!!
My family has been using one of these electric sharpeners for years. From my experience, the belly will develop a micro concave curve. And it will get worse and worse until the flat line of the chopping edge will no longer be flat against the cutting board. You can see daylight if you placed the edge flat against the board. For obvious reasons, this makes chopping extremely annoying.
We stored away those old knives and bought new ones. Once I started to use stones, I eventually pulled all our old knives out of the drawer and reshaped and reprofiled the edges to chop flat again.
Electric sharpeners have their place. Especially because there's really no learning curve. But they will eventually ruin your knives. At least to the point where you would need to have them professionally sharpened or learn to use stones yourself. The worst part is that we've been struggling with the knives for a long time before deciding to buy new knives and learn to use stones.
Nice video Ryky, as always.
Another great video! What do you think of the hand held wet 3-stage diamond sharpeners? Thank you.
I use the Chef's Choice Trizor XV electric sharpener to raise the burr first then use the whetstones to finish the job and got very good result. Of course, I still prefer the whetstones only method but I don't have the skill like Ricky. :)
By the way, I really enjoy watching your video and have learned a lot of tips and tricks from you. Thank you!
For sure I totally agree about the scratches on the knife bothering me. If I am spending $200+ on a knife I bought it for both looks and functionality. If I didn't care about the looks I might as well buy a hacksaw to chop my food. Aesthetics are a big component of any item. And spending that much of your hard earned cash on a machine that will destroy the looks of your knives is just not worth it to me.
Thanks for the informative video Ryky. Plus do you think the Chosera 800 is better than this Cerax 1000 whetstone?
I've actually had the same complaint with my old Chef's Choice sharpener, in that it leaves big old scratch marks about half an inch above the blade and essentially ruins the appearance of a fine knife! Good to know I wasn't the only one to experience that!
Excellent video! I have a similar electric sharpener, and the 1/2" scratch it makes isn't really deep enough to last on my (probably cheaper than yours) knives, and it goes away after a few washes.
Sorry Ryky… but biased.
Sure, I fully agree with you that most of your viewers are more into Japanese knives but a Wüsthof electric sharpener is hardly designed for a hardness they don't sell nor, to a lesser degree, a profile that really isn't them.
That was no different to putting a Masamoto KS up against a Wüsthof Silverpoint to determine the better chef knife and then only comparing them using a rock chop. Or maybe pumpkin prepping with an Enso HD prep knife. As for the times, why isn't the soaking time included? Unless there are Cerax/Rika insta-soak stones out there the soaking time is required to start and complete a stone sharpening process. Maybe use your lap timer and say you can take x time off if you use splash & go stones. Comparing to an electric sharpener that is designed to be used with Japanese style knives and profiles, like the KAI, would have been better.
Interesting all the same though! 👍
Cause you can soak the stones while you go do something else
@@jradish sure, or a day before!
How about a 3-way comparison: Guided (e.g. Edge Pro) vs Machine vs Freehand? I've got all three but don't have three identical knives as guinea pigs.
Oh, and commercial paper doesn't have any "grain" -- it's just wood pulp (and other things) pressed into a sheet. Top, side, or bottom: all the same thing.
Try tearing the paper one way and then at 90 degrees to the first tear. You might see that a cross grain tear will wander on an angle. The with grain tear will track straighter. If so, then that paper has some grain.
Commercial papers alwsys have a grain. Handmade sheets will not.
Just a suggestion... Three similar pieces of the same sheet of steel would serve just as well as three identical knives. Have virtually the same hardness, etc...
Why wouldn't it be a feasible test to just go after the sheet-metal which would be FAR AND WIDE cheaper to "guinea pig" than even three "cheap-ass dollar store knives"... All you need to know is which particular process renders the best results, all things else being equal, right?
So do you HAVE to start with THE MOST EXPENSIVE grade of steel in the whole shop, or wouldn't it make reasonable sense that cheaper "crap steel" (so long as it's consistent) would serve the "test" function? Besides... With cheap "crap" steel as the test sample, any defect in the sharpening phase would easily be exaggerated, since without a particular temper, most cheap steel is soft... It will also show wear quicker (so less test duration)... and any improvement would be a significant find.
I only point this out for "personal purpose"... I do a fair amount of testing and experimenting on such matters (grinding, shaping, polishing, and functionality after) so I want tests that are cheap and quick to render results without breaking me financially. ;o)
Thank you, I think you summed it up well.
I'm using a similar sharpener as my weekly effort but whenever I have the time I use stones. No more than 2 or 3 times a year. I think for a busy chef or someone who is just otherwise preocupied the elctric sharpener is useful. Definitely worth owning both.
I like to sharpen my knives by hand, but having worked in a restaurant kitchen, the machines definitely have their place. Especially if you're running a bunch of guys and gals around with a fistful of cheap knives. Scratches on communal knives? No big deal. Scratches on my personal knives, no thank you. XD
Definatley ageee
Stones are for people have good skills in sharpening
Otherwise machine is good
You're not born knowing how to use a set of whetstones. If the learning curve to use a whetstone is too much for you then how do you go about life? Never learning new skills and always taking the easy way out?
You can get experience only practicing. I was also trying and trying again, till I get results I want. Now using only stones.
lol do you drive a car?
driving is for those with skills otherwise walking is good.
iMiss Fortune so is walking. It’s a skill you have to learn
skill and TIME
For what it's worth, I used to own one of these machines (the old design that was probably considered unsafe but didn't scratch the knives); I also have a set of good whetstones and a Spiderco Sharpmaker. The Spiderco hits a really incredible balance between speed, effort and result (as well as learning curve). The setup and cleanup is fast, and for most tasks the sharpness is 90+% as good as what I can get with the whetstones (YMMV). For chipped blades or other abused knives I pull out the whetstones, because the Sharpmaker is not great for fixing those, but otherwise I just do a 2 minute Spiderco touch-up.
I'm going to add a +1 to the Worksharp requests. Even better, it would be wonderful to see a detailed tutorial on using one from you, so we can get the same incredible level of sharpness that you achieve! I recently switched from wetsones to the Worksharp and was extremely happy with the results, but could definitely learn a lot from your videos.
you could make a drinking game out of this video!
Take a shot every time he says "edge"
My friends kids brought him one of these for his 50th Birthday. He still sharpens on his King 250/1000 cheepo combo stone because he thinks even that very inexpensive stone is better. Funny enough though, when friends or neighbours ask him to sharpen their cheep knives he uses the electric one as they A) don't care about scratches etc. And B) have very little idea what a sharp knife is. Nice video content as usual, thanks.
#LongestCommentEver
*those are too many
The irony😂 You make a comment saying what my brain can handle but you don't even know basic grammar.
Saw a vid that just used sandpaper and a strop, results were awesome.
Thanks for the info. All my daily use blades stay just fine with regular honing using (also regularly scoured clean)ceramic. I have a basic dual grit stone on order to maybe revive some ancient (in years not value)blades, and well... I enjoyed watching your technique/touch/tool-connection. Hope I can develope that skill too, as it looked like a weirdly calm, focused effort, the sort that takes time to build. Sorry if that sounds odd, anyway liked your vid!
The only electric sharpener i would use: tormek waterstone sharpening system,
I think people just get really good at cutting paper.
Funny but do you see how little effort he’s cutting the paper
@@shaquilleoatmeal2654 r/woooosh
Skyurrik you got me man
Just bought a chefschoice 15xv model. For a regular joe who doesn’t have the patience or knife sharpening experience, this is a wonderful tool, specially when I have an immediate need, I can sharpen a knife in a minute or two and comfortable asking somebody to help without worrying cutting finger or ruin the blade. It’s like comparing automatic to manual transmission. Yeah, it doesn’t give you the control you want but then it also demands less on you to get the job done.
I hunt down your videos every time I want to learn to sharpen knives. I am new to sharpening and watching your videos takes the guesswork out of it. I would rather take the time to learn on a whetstone than to have less sharpness using a mechanical sharpener. I think the end result is so much more rewarding regardless of how long it takes to learn.
I guess if it was easy everyone would be doing it.
You are great at teaching, keep up the great job your doing.
Thank you,
Lori