Regarding BBTAG the RWBY characters are the reason that I got into Fighting Games. The assist mechanics essentially turn every character into a puppet character, while also allowing for the more traditional types of point and assist synergies. This combined with the fairly freeform combo system, allows for some of the craziest stuff you will ever see in a fighting game. Shout out to Doncon/ICUHater for keeping the game alive.
At the same time though the RWBY characters being in the game was completely out of nowhere and I still don't get why they were included. Regardless of my opinions of the show it was cool that they were included but like...they don't fit with the rest of the cast. They aren't originally video game characters nor do they have a dedicated fighter like the personal cast. They just felt out of nowhere you know?
Its crazy the difference between somebody who has played games since they were young vs someone who hasnt. Completely different perspectives and i feel like when you dont have experience with games you dont understand their limitations as well, and they seem more complex than they maybe are
It's honestly so hard to learn as a new player to fighting games. I was hard stuck in silver for months in SF6 until the Sajam Slam. That first week watching the coaches teach so many people, who were also new, so many random things made me feel like i was learning how to learn the game. Now I've made it to Platinum and see some of my own issues and can actually make use of the youtube guides
It's been easier than ever though. Never have been there so many online resources to teach you the game, not to mention in-game there have been huge improvements as well compared to 15 years ago. Also, the scene has grown and there are also way more beginners to play against as well. The only thing I can imagine now being harder is the pressure people put on themselves since high level matches and footages are everywhere so people subconsciously put a lot of pressure on themselves when learning and get demotivated way easier. My scrubby ass learning Blazblue didn't even have proper internet access but managed to learn the basics of FGs with that at my own pace and never felt pressure or frustration with my non-existent performance, ever.
@Nyagro like diaphone says in the video, it's hard to learn when you don't know what you don't know. Like I watched so many "beginner or get better at SF6" videos and nothing helped. Then sajam hosted the Slam i got to watch coaches teach players who had never played and things started clicking. Idk how to properly explain it, but like cancel timing and how to use the settings in practice mode are things I learned watching. Sure, there are tons of resources for new players. Watching people run into similar problems to me and learn how to overcome them was so much more helpful to me.
@@birtchtree3352the best resource is honestly the in game prebuilt scenarios. that and a single ryu combo guide got me from bronze to masters in 6 months. woulda been much faster but i couldn’t play much.
@@birtchtree3352 I'm not arguing against that. Like I said, I also had no clue about anything. And that stayed the same until I encountered the proper scenario or explanation that made me aware of it. That hasn't changed since the very human concept of conscious learning and will always be there. My point was just "don't worry, if the time comes you'll get to know it in one way or another." There is no FGC guideline in how to learn fighting games. And feeling bad about how you didn't know about a certain aspect shouldn't be a point of worry for anyone unless you measure your progress with other people.
Learning fighting games is a lot like learning music and an instrument. And nobody is good right away. Frame data is a lot like music theory in that the better you understand it; the more easily you can solve “problems” and direct yourself, but it can also take some of the fun out of blind exploration and creativity. And I think that’s part of why I loved fighting games more as a kid. I loved finding moves and patterns that “worked”. Discovering the normals and specials and combos you like without thinking about plus or negative while still thinking about timing and spacing was a good time. We just found solutions to our problems a different way. And obviously frame data can get us there sooner but the journey isn’t as fun. Modern fighters can also be frustrating because of so many mechanics, overly long combos, or cinematic comebacks that are cool the first time but you learn to despise later
Hell, when you brought up Magnus i immediatelly thought of the Polgar experiment, but wasn't expecting you to mention. Very cool to find out you know chess history like that!
The best of the best are usually people that are built differently who work harder than everyone because of their passion. Ive met naturally talented people who have some sort of obsession with a hobby/work. These people arent normal they breath their passion and it comes to them wo easily so their time engaging with said passion is way more rewarding than for you... And they also spend way more time than you engaging with said passion so they end up being unreachable.
On the topic about the "resources/videos already existing" - you can make your own take on the thing or just make it again. Sajam has had yearly videos about injustice and some topics that get traction and help people find out about stuff (and incentivizes research). Sometimes you just need to keep hitting the nail for it to stick and other people find it through the noise.
I've been a big fan of BlazBlue for a very long time, and while I was genuinely excited for BBTag when it was announced, playing BB for so long caused me to develop certain expectations for how a BB game should play. So you can imagine my disappointment when I load up my first match and find that Drives have been completely gutted, and even the Uni characters feel like they're missing half their move set. Despite this, I still gave BBTag a chance, putting in 26 hours of trying to find a team I really gelled with. But I ended up deciding to drop the game and just went back to BBCF when the rollback patch released. tl;dr: I can see why people like BBTag, but for purely subjective reasons I am not one of those people.
Thirteen years ago I was so UMvC3 pilled that I never thought any game would surpass my playtime in it. BBTag doubled that, 2k hours since day 1. 2XKO is fun but it doesn't scratch the itch that game did.
Diaphone being bbtag’s sole defender makes him my goat. When I tell people it’s my favourite fg everyone looks at me like I’m crazy. Now all the sudden people are going crazy for 2xko… they don’t know it borrowed 80% of its mechanics from bbtag
Tbh I tried bbtag and I just didn't think it was fun, but when it comes up as a topic it makes me a bit bitter because I started getting into fighting games from BB and it's also how I met one of my best friends. I grew up with it and it felt like a bad way for something I loved to "end". Also no Carl, Relius or Amane so it was DOA for me anyway lol.
@ ppl just only saw “Blazblue” on the title and had a hard time getting over it unfortunately. I understand the misconception but it really is a wholly unique game and imo a more fun one (if maybe less balanced)
It's funny someone mentioned that blocking is a lot weaker now and he is very correct; because that's by design. When I teach my friends new fighting games I always tell them that down back as a defensive position is *incredibly* powerful. When you hold down back, already you are blocking the vast majority of moves coming your way, and overheads are (mostly) designed to be reactable and punishable. The only real threat against you, then, is throw. But depending on the game, throw is either also reactable or can be OSed, and that can further heavily buff defense. So when you're on offense it can feel like not only are you the one taking a whole bunch of risks, but the enemy is doing whole bunch of low risk, passive defensive options that isn't really putting them under that much pressure. Modern games tend to move away from this trend because it promotes a passive kinda playstyle, and rewards characters with kits that are also very passive, or somehow have such overwhelming offense they can bypass it.
The best things u do for beginners is: break down replays and show how to train/fix the mistakes….and talking about community experiences/opinions. Also, please do more scrub quote videos. They are fun, and reminds everyone how frustrating getting better can be. It’s not just beginner frustrations
Everyone can be as good as Arslan and Atif if they also played fighting games 8-10 hours a day, didn't have to work, and had access to top tier coaching. Sure there is a natural talent component but a lot of people also don't realize how much time and money are spent to get good. If you look at pro players and their grind to get into top tier college and sports. 90% of that is the amount of extra time that was afforded to them to get there. Time vs reward is a huge thing. Sure, I might have hundreds of hundreds of hours into a game but if I don't have access to someone telling me faults and how to correct them it's going to take me infinitely longer to get there compared to the person with more time as a resource. Edit: This is also incredibly also much more difficult to manage when you have a full time job and family obligations. Time is the biggest resource and not all of us have that luxury.
Arslan ash didnt have access to top tier coaching until later in his career once he started appearing the world stage more frequently. And even if you played 8-10 hours a day, you could still achieve a grand sum of 0.
I mean, I think talent is a combination of traits that lend itself to success. Work ethic, quality of practice, dedication, drive to improve, and overall attitude are what makes somebody talented. Making dedication and talent opposites is a false dichotomy. Nobody who we view as talented thinks of themselves as such. Not everybody who works hard succeeds, but everybody who succeeds works hard
It’s not that the resources don’t exist or there’s no guides, when i was new it’s that a lot of it makes assumptions about what people already know and gloss over a lot of nuances or don’t have practical examples
Yes, BBTAG can be broken and salt inducing, but man was it fun. Thinking about jumping back in it so I can play it at CEOtaku next month, just for the nostalgia, lol!
i tried bbtag 6 or so months ago and really loved it. the only issue were dead servers and i made a mistake of not checking steam charts and servers first. once i downloaded the game i went into education and then some free training (dont remember how it was called) where i somehow spend over 9 hours playing and testing different things. but when i went into online and saw empty servers i understood that i was scammed (at least the game was super cheap, like 5 usd or so)
I don’t think that comment on the speed kicks video is solely related to fighting games. Those tiny details are everywhere from fighting games to shooters to single player RPGs. I’ve been playing a lot of CoD lately and trying to improve my game. I watched some videos that made me think about tiny little intricate things about the way I aim, to the space I should be controlling and how to control it. All the tips were just small things that I just didn’t know until I knew
Competition in the game market, veteran players, the skill and time to master a character are the barriers for playing fighting games for a long time. A game might look appealing at the start but once you start playing against veteran players just to lose. It doesn't feel good. Putting half an hour to warm up plus learning combos every time you log in to play is something that takes discipline. In the competitive market other games offer a shorter learning curve with a higher feeling of accomplishment. What does feel good about fighting games that makes a rookie into a veteran is the joy of the journey.
15:52 New school players are going to have a stroke trying to figure out how to open up people in Project Justice when CFC2 comes out. You can hold up-back and beat 99% of the things in the game, and the things that beat chicken blocking in it are pretty specific/require labbing.
Just because it exsists doesnt mean its good or could be outdated. if they are the first videos when you look something up but people are still asking then those videos probably arent the best/not relevant anymore or even just speicifc to a certain region or type of person. its also the same reason not everyone learns the same way, or digests information the same way.
Chun li , yun and Izanami did nothing wrong Also talent in my opinion isn't just a head start in the process of learning but also not an elevator to the top.
In fighting games reflexes and reactions are kinda important, and those are based on stimulus-response systems which can be diffrent on diffrent people, u can train your reflexes but to some extent, same is with strenght, there are diffrent types of muscle fibres, some people will be better at distnct type of sports.
My Hot Take: Samurai Showdown 2019 is the best modern 2D fighter for both veterans and New players. Low skill floor but very high skill ceiling. Raw neutral and footies. Even the comeback mechanic takes a hard read. Oh I never played BlazBlue Tag because they didn’t have “Bang”. Which I thought was complete blasphemy.
It's not a "theory" exactly but I think childhood experiences MAY set up what we view as talent though not as directly as "play fighting game as baby be good at fight game as adult". I think there may be (potentially) millions of little micro experiences that prime the brain to essentially be good at things or worse at others. And many of those things you may never guess would have an associated talent that it was priming indirectly. It's just an idea ofc I'm not an expert but it's an alternate explanation of innate talent. But we'll probably never truuuly conclude anything about nature vs nurture when it comes to talent
Re: talent/natural inclincation: I do hate people pretending that hard work is not a factor for everyone, but this pushback against the idea of talent existing is also kind of silly to me. Like some people are wired/built to do certain things well. To stay in sports, Michael Phelps, for example, is also a monster! And as gets brought up, Chess prodigies are known as prodigies for a reason. Raw hard work is just not going to get you to that level. But that also doesn't mean that those prodigies do not work incredibly hard and devote tons of time and energy to it. And it also doesn't mean you can't become skilled by working hard.
the new player friendly resources comment made me think of dustloop, guilty gear is my first fighting game and ive put off learning new games cause ive been spoiled by dustloop lol
There's definitely a talent component but it's not the only component. Some people get so annoyed when you say this tho, they seem to want to believe that anyone can do anything...
15:35 Offense easier? I say its the opposite, some old games were brutal for offense and absolutely required option selects like sf4, over heads back in the day, oh, 14 frame K', Granblue is like at 26 for an overhead SF5 had good escape options V-Reversal and V-shift, guilty gear added deflect shield, cross up protections exist old games never held hands and had lots of more unfair unblockables and set ups, oki was brutal with wake up being stiff
I think new players are grinding rank too fast. I really got into fighting games with strive release and saw the tower as a way to get experience against similar skilled players. You shouldn't cry when you drop a rank or be too scared to try and fail. Nothing beats getting experience under your belt and learning from there. Also helps to have a friend starting from scratch with you. But if you get to a rank and drop you can get there again
When I think about fighting game talent to me it all comes down to game sense. You can play for 30 years but some people just have better game sense. Imo it's a way harder skill to develop than execution or fundies etc.
People like IQ tests because its easy to attach their self worth to if they get a high score. This makes them heavily want to defend the legitimacy of the tests which creates a cycle of more people valuing their IQ scores
Imo talent does not really exist. If uve played a bunch of games as a kid ull pick up other games faster. Thats just experience. If u sit down 2 people with the exact same condition (same age, same job and so on) they will most likely perform the same. I learned sf6 relatively quick as my first fg (500hrs im ~1600mr) but if i told one of my friends to learn it theyd be fcking abysmal cuz they dont have the gaming experience.
14:45 I'd like to comment that while we do absolutely need accessibility in Fighting Games I don't believe to be the kind that people think(motion inputs and such): as a community we need to stop putting Fighting Games in a pedestal and saying that people need 100 hour in Training mode before going Online. While yes, there are hard parts of fighting games, there are also VERY difficult parts of very popular shooters, such as Apex Legends and Deadlock, or MOBAs such as League, and yet people don't say "in order to play online you need to know all your item builds, and have spent 50 hours in training mode stutter-stepping", they just go in and have fun. Fighting games are games that can be enjoyed by JUST knowing your normals and some spacing, you don't need the mechanical skills as we've also seen in Pro Leagues, where players choose consistently safer options for less damage BECAUSE they're safer. In short, we need to stop advertising FGs as pinnacles of difficulties and more as fun games where you can beat your friends, and improve if you're willing to. There are other accessibilies that can be talked about like pricing and characters DLCs(which we've seen from OW2's new character releases that can also affect other games than FGCs) or the fact that developers like ArcSys have incredibily bad UI designs and matchmaking systems, but I do believe that, if the first problem is to be solved, others will be simply pushed by the mass of new players, that have these QoL in other games, but don't have them in Fighting Games.
Tbh (ik I’ll most likely get clowned on and such), Mk11 had some decent defensive mechanics. Yes people hated them but they had counterplay. And most of the options were tied to your defense meter. Only ones that weren’t was backdashing, blocking, and dash blocking. There’s so much you can do defensively yet it doesn’t inherently take away from the other person’s offense. Also for helping new players, top players can start reviewing lower level players’ games (like something some OW creators do). Sf6 is the easiest way to do so as you have codes for replays where anyone can watch. Like the OW creators don’t just say “You’re ass”. They say “You’re ass because of x. What you can do instead is y.” With all these fighting game streamers, top players are mainly willing to help other streamers/well know people or higher level players.
All cool with liking BBTag. But saying it's one of the best fighting games right after giving the definition you did for scrubby characters is like... that's just how you play BBTag. You build a broken strategy and let your opponent deal with it.
BBCT is legit one of the funnest best creative fighting games ever but people are people so they just dont deal with it ngl tho at this point the skill gap is insane because the game is dead now and only the rude neckbeards play it
Just a few of my own more extreme hot takes: - Granblue Fantasy Versus Rising is the best fighting game of the last 12 months. - Beatrix gameplay was designed for stupid baby gorillas. - Guilty Gear gameplay is convoluted for the sake of being convoluted. - Guilty Gear Strive is the most relevant and influential of all Guilty Gear games, and the only one that matters anyway. - Invulnerable reversals are a bad mechanic and don't make sense in the first place. - Shotos are a weak design and boring both to play and to play against. - Terry Bogard is an overhyped and overrated character. In all games he appears. - Heihachi should've stayed dead. - MvC games are an unbalanced mess. - DBZ is the worst work from Akira Toriyama. - Sparking Zero is a bloated party game, not a competitive fighting game. - Good finger gimnastics don't make a good player. - Fighting sticks were never good, they have always been a bad design keept alive just to scam players by inflating insecure egos. - People who reject playing figthing games value winning more than they value improving themselves. - All fighting games should announce their seasonal dlc characters from the start. Secrecy only breeds corruption.
I've been playing fps games my whole life and fighting games only in the past couple of years and fighting game players who claim FGs aren't hard because they are somehow struggling on some new game of other genres are completely delusional and ignorant. There is virtually no comparison possible, fighting game is almost the only genre of video games where you are completely lost the first time you play, beyond mechanics and execution fighting games require a mindset coming into them you can instantly call a beginner because they will be flailing buttons around, the concept of button mashing doesn't exist in other genres. Counter Strike is one of the hardest competitive shooter on the market but despite that, a beginner of FPS as a whole can go into a game, pick a weapon, run around and get some kills and he will be learning how to aim, how to position, the map layouts, all of that by simply playing. When you enter fighting games, you NEED to understand an extremely varied and complicated set of linguo like mixups, shimmies, neutral, poking, reversal, okizeme, meaty which are not only important but obligatory to simply understand what the hell is going on. The skill disparity is also to a degree I've never seen, an average cs player could jump into call of duty, rainbow 6 or apex and most of his skills will convert easily. If you aren't the absolute cream of the crop, switching from street to Guilty Gear will 99% of the time see you get destroyed for dozens of hours become you can clutch a single round. The amount of effort needed in a fighting game round at a given moment to just grasp the situation is insane, you have to be aware of your hp, your opponent's hp, your meter bar, the opponent's meter, their and your position, if you go for a poke, a whiff punish, projectile zoning, closing the distance, once you scored the hit you go for which combo, which oki setup, do I bait dp, do I safejump, do I shimmy, do I crossup and so much more. Fighting game is the hardest genre of video game to get into bar none, if it weren't the case we wouldn't have those discussion to begin with, RTS are complex games but I've never saw even one RTS player complain about people thinking the genre is too hard for them. I don't think FGs need to become easier but they are inherently anti casuals and beginner.
You literally don't need any of that to get into fighting games. Especially in a game like SF6, you can do the tutorial and go straight to online matches if you want. It's fine.
Go watch the Sajam slam tournament(specifically the coaching vids/streams). Various streamers where teamed up with pro coaches with only a weak to prepare. Some of these players had never played a fighting game before btw. Watching the coaches, none of them and I mean none of them focused on complicated jargon beyond the basics and universal mechanics. Only brining up concepts when it became necessary or if the felt the player had enough knowledge Overwatch streamer Eskay got coaching from Nephew(after the tournament), she recently reached master and admits she didnt know any specifics of frame data or what a frame trap even is. Obviously it ain't luck she had guidance(also played a shit ton and might be built different lol) but most importantly fundamentals mattered more than anything else. She's high ranking in Tekken and Street fighter now in less than a year. "Skill doesn't carry over" is false no bones about it. Especially considering how many basic concepts and basics carry over game to game What the good coaches focused on was: 1. "what r my characters best buttons/specials?" 2. Universal mechanics 3. Basics of defense 4. A simple gameplan (Cheese scrubs hate, and a backup for when it doesnt work lol). My point is: yours(and many others) approach to fighting games is misguided. Hollow knight, darksouls, DMC, god of war etc. dont overload the player with all the information all at once, so dont do the same unlock strategies and tactics as you improve. Favourite quote from tekken pros: "dont play high level tekken by yourself".
This is what happens when u consume large amounts of fgc content then expect to apply all that knowledge immediately. It's fascinating I know; the evos and the video essays and analysis r all fun. But u should only focus on "the fundies" until u feel more confident and your opponents start getting smarter and tougher. Meaties dont work if the other guy just mashes DP all the time, so just block
@@neon-lake And most of those streamers and beginnerd are still ass at fighting games. The fact they even need coaches and can't simply learn the game by osmosis is really telling and baffle me how you don't realize it. They wouldnt need any coaches to play a fps or a moba because they wouldnt need to, fighting game ARE harder than these genre and without a coach they would be completely lost. Lilypichu has been playing Tekken8 for over a year and yet, she tried Strive a week ago and was completely lost at every possible level and ended up floor1 for several hours at the start. Fundies do not carry over unless you're good at fg, only vague understanding but mostly cheese. Also I have absolutely 0 idea why you assumed I'm a beginner lmao, I'm good at FGs at 1k8 Elo in Strive and S++ rising, I was just taking the point of view of a beginner, something you people never do because you've been playing FGs for so long you just got used to playing them being easy. Reality is those streamers in 2 week could get average level player skill in a fps and are still scrub beginners in 2 weeks of fg practice with a coach. My method to learn wasn't misguided it just took a year for me but the thing you don't get is that there is virtually not a single good fighting game players who doesn't know what frame data is, nor what oki pressure is. You can avoid learning linguo in the beginning but it will bite you in the ass when you'll get 10-0 by a decent player.
ruclips.net/video/crYKE2EYuFQ/видео.html 100% being a god at fighting games is more about loving games so much that you spend inordinate amounts of time playing them. You aren't necessarily going to be able to have that same passion for computer science or whatever. Some do, and they go into computer science probably. But it's not like you can just take a passion and skill for one thing and swap it to another thing.
Regarding BBTAG the RWBY characters are the reason that I got into Fighting Games. The assist mechanics essentially turn every character into a puppet character, while also allowing for the more traditional types of point and assist synergies. This combined with the fairly freeform combo system, allows for some of the craziest stuff you will ever see in a fighting game. Shout out to Doncon/ICUHater for keeping the game alive.
ME TOO bro me too
At the same time though the RWBY characters being in the game was completely out of nowhere and I still don't get why they were included. Regardless of my opinions of the show it was cool that they were included but like...they don't fit with the rest of the cast. They aren't originally video game characters nor do they have a dedicated fighter like the personal cast. They just felt out of nowhere you know?
@@nightmarearcade2663 The simple reason is that Monty and Mori were fans of each others work.
BBTag is why I got into RWBY lol
Crescent Rose is one of my favorite weapon designs 🌹🔥
Its crazy the difference between somebody who has played games since they were young vs someone who hasnt. Completely different perspectives and i feel like when you dont have experience with games you dont understand their limitations as well, and they seem more complex than they maybe are
It's honestly so hard to learn as a new player to fighting games. I was hard stuck in silver for months in SF6 until the Sajam Slam. That first week watching the coaches teach so many people, who were also new, so many random things made me feel like i was learning how to learn the game. Now I've made it to Platinum and see some of my own issues and can actually make use of the youtube guides
It's been easier than ever though. Never have been there so many online resources to teach you the game, not to mention in-game there have been huge improvements as well compared to 15 years ago. Also, the scene has grown and there are also way more beginners to play against as well.
The only thing I can imagine now being harder is the pressure people put on themselves since high level matches and footages are everywhere so people subconsciously put a lot of pressure on themselves when learning and get demotivated way easier.
My scrubby ass learning Blazblue didn't even have proper internet access but managed to learn the basics of FGs with that at my own pace and never felt pressure or frustration with my non-existent performance, ever.
@Nyagro like diaphone says in the video, it's hard to learn when you don't know what you don't know. Like I watched so many "beginner or get better at SF6" videos and nothing helped. Then sajam hosted the Slam i got to watch coaches teach players who had never played and things started clicking. Idk how to properly explain it, but like cancel timing and how to use the settings in practice mode are things I learned watching.
Sure, there are tons of resources for new players. Watching people run into similar problems to me and learn how to overcome them was so much more helpful to me.
@@birtchtree3352the best resource is honestly the in game prebuilt scenarios. that and a single ryu combo guide got me from bronze to masters in 6 months. woulda been much faster but i couldn’t play much.
@@birtchtree3352 I'm not arguing against that. Like I said, I also had no clue about anything. And that stayed the same until I encountered the proper scenario or explanation that made me aware of it. That hasn't changed since the very human concept of conscious learning and will always be there.
My point was just "don't worry, if the time comes you'll get to know it in one way or another."
There is no FGC guideline in how to learn fighting games. And feeling bad about how you didn't know about a certain aspect shouldn't be a point of worry for anyone unless you measure your progress with other people.
Where to watch these vids now?
Learning fighting games is a lot like learning music and an instrument. And nobody is good right away. Frame data is a lot like music theory in that the better you understand it; the more easily you can solve “problems” and direct yourself, but it can also take some of the fun out of blind exploration and creativity. And I think that’s part of why I loved fighting games more as a kid. I loved finding moves and patterns that “worked”. Discovering the normals and specials and combos you like without thinking about plus or negative while still thinking about timing and spacing was a good time. We just found solutions to our problems a different way. And obviously frame data can get us there sooner but the journey isn’t as fun. Modern fighters can also be frustrating because of so many mechanics, overly long combos, or cinematic comebacks that are cool the first time but you learn to despise later
Hell, when you brought up Magnus i immediatelly thought of the Polgar experiment, but wasn't expecting you to mention. Very cool to find out you know chess history like that!
BBtag isn’t a bad game, it’s just not a lot of peoples personal preference.
The best of the best are usually people that are built differently who work harder than everyone because of their passion. Ive met naturally talented people who have some sort of obsession with a hobby/work. These people arent normal they breath their passion and it comes to them wo easily so their time engaging with said passion is way more rewarding than for you... And they also spend way more time than you engaging with said passion so they end up being unreachable.
I see THE B B TAG I click
On the topic about the "resources/videos already existing" - you can make your own take on the thing or just make it again. Sajam has had yearly videos about injustice and some topics that get traction and help people find out about stuff (and incentivizes research).
Sometimes you just need to keep hitting the nail for it to stick and other people find it through the noise.
I've been a big fan of BlazBlue for a very long time, and while I was genuinely excited for BBTag when it was announced, playing BB for so long caused me to develop certain expectations for how a BB game should play. So you can imagine my disappointment when I load up my first match and find that Drives have been completely gutted, and even the Uni characters feel like they're missing half their move set. Despite this, I still gave BBTag a chance, putting in 26 hours of trying to find a team I really gelled with. But I ended up deciding to drop the game and just went back to BBCF when the rollback patch released.
tl;dr: I can see why people like BBTag, but for purely subjective reasons I am not one of those people.
18:49- This take has hardcore Andrew Tate sigma grindset value to society/women bullshit, I can feel that in my SOUL.
I liked bbtag alot personally and it was the first fighter that i put alot and still play time to time with friends
Thirteen years ago I was so UMvC3 pilled that I never thought any game would surpass my playtime in it.
BBTag doubled that, 2k hours since day 1. 2XKO is fun but it doesn't scratch the itch that game did.
So you're saying I should play BBTag...
Diaphone being bbtag’s sole defender makes him my goat. When I tell people it’s my favourite fg everyone looks at me like I’m crazy. Now all the sudden people are going crazy for 2xko… they don’t know it borrowed 80% of its mechanics from bbtag
Tbh I tried bbtag and I just didn't think it was fun, but when it comes up as a topic it makes me a bit bitter because I started getting into fighting games from BB and it's also how I met one of my best friends.
I grew up with it and it felt like a bad way for something I loved to "end". Also no Carl, Relius or Amane so it was DOA for me anyway lol.
@ ppl just only saw “Blazblue” on the title and had a hard time getting over it unfortunately. I understand the misconception but it really is a wholly unique game and imo a more fun one (if maybe less balanced)
@risha5642 it's a blazblue spin off so I see no reason for it to be the exact same
YESSS I love bbtag so much its so underrated its too bad the UI is so bad i hope they make a second crossover game
It's funny someone mentioned that blocking is a lot weaker now and he is very correct; because that's by design. When I teach my friends new fighting games I always tell them that down back as a defensive position is *incredibly* powerful.
When you hold down back, already you are blocking the vast majority of moves coming your way, and overheads are (mostly) designed to be reactable and punishable. The only real threat against you, then, is throw. But depending on the game, throw is either also reactable or can be OSed, and that can further heavily buff defense. So when you're on offense it can feel like not only are you the one taking a whole bunch of risks, but the enemy is doing whole bunch of low risk, passive defensive options that isn't really putting them under that much pressure.
Modern games tend to move away from this trend because it promotes a passive kinda playstyle, and rewards characters with kits that are also very passive, or somehow have such overwhelming offense they can bypass it.
The best things u do for beginners is: break down replays and show how to train/fix the mistakes….and talking about community experiences/opinions.
Also, please do more scrub quote videos. They are fun, and reminds everyone how frustrating getting better can be. It’s not just beginner frustrations
passion beats talent over time and every time
Everyone can be as good as Arslan and Atif if they also played fighting games 8-10 hours a day, didn't have to work, and had access to top tier coaching.
Sure there is a natural talent component but a lot of people also don't realize how much time and money are spent to get good. If you look at pro players and their grind to get into top tier college and sports. 90% of that is the amount of extra time that was afforded to them to get there.
Time vs reward is a huge thing. Sure, I might have hundreds of hundreds of hours into a game but if I don't have access to someone telling me faults and how to correct them it's going to take me infinitely longer to get there compared to the person with more time as a resource.
Edit: This is also incredibly also much more difficult to manage when you have a full time job and family obligations. Time is the biggest resource and not all of us have that luxury.
Arslan ash didnt have access to top tier coaching until later in his career once he started appearing the world stage more frequently. And even if you played 8-10 hours a day, you could still achieve a grand sum of 0.
I mean, I think talent is a combination of traits that lend itself to success. Work ethic, quality of practice, dedication, drive to improve, and overall attitude are what makes somebody talented. Making dedication and talent opposites is a false dichotomy. Nobody who we view as talented thinks of themselves as such. Not everybody who works hard succeeds, but everybody who succeeds works hard
It’s not that the resources don’t exist or there’s no guides, when i was new it’s that a lot of it makes assumptions about what people already know and gloss over a lot of nuances or don’t have practical examples
Yes, BBTAG can be broken and salt inducing, but man was it fun. Thinking about jumping back in it so I can play it at CEOtaku next month, just for the nostalgia, lol!
i tried bbtag 6 or so months ago and really loved it. the only issue were dead servers and i made a mistake of not checking steam charts and servers first. once i downloaded the game i went into education and then some free training (dont remember how it was called) where i somehow spend over 9 hours playing and testing different things. but when i went into online and saw empty servers i understood that i was scammed (at least the game was super cheap, like 5 usd or so)
Specifics made simple are hard to find. Coaching Lily was a really good example of this that helped me a lot.
I don’t think that comment on the speed kicks video is solely related to fighting games. Those tiny details are everywhere from fighting games to shooters to single player RPGs.
I’ve been playing a lot of CoD lately and trying to improve my game. I watched some videos that made me think about tiny little intricate things about the way I aim, to the space I should be controlling and how to control it. All the tips were just small things that I just didn’t know until I knew
I think the biggest contributor to BlazBlue cross tag battle failing is the fact that it has Blazblue in the title
Competition in the game market, veteran players, the skill and time to master a character are the barriers for playing fighting games for a long time. A game might look appealing at the start but once you start playing against veteran players just to lose. It doesn't feel good. Putting half an hour to warm up plus learning combos every time you log in to play is something that takes discipline. In the competitive market other games offer a shorter learning curve with a higher feeling of accomplishment. What does feel good about fighting games that makes a rookie into a veteran is the joy of the journey.
15:52 New school players are going to have a stroke trying to figure out how to open up people in Project Justice when CFC2 comes out. You can hold up-back and beat 99% of the things in the game, and the things that beat chicken blocking in it are pretty specific/require labbing.
Just because it exsists doesnt mean its good or could be outdated. if they are the first videos when you look something up but people are still asking then those videos probably arent the best/not relevant anymore or even just speicifc to a certain region or type of person. its also the same reason not everyone learns the same way, or digests information the same way.
looking forward to the "is 1500MR a lot?" reaction lol
Chun li , yun and Izanami did nothing wrong
Also talent in my opinion isn't just a head start in the process of learning but also not an elevator to the top.
In fighting games reflexes and reactions are kinda important, and those are based on stimulus-response systems which can be diffrent on diffrent people, u can train your reflexes but to some extent, same is with strenght, there are diffrent types of muscle fibres, some people will be better at distnct type of sports.
My Hot Take: Samurai Showdown 2019 is the best modern 2D fighter for both veterans and New players. Low skill floor but very high skill ceiling. Raw neutral and footies. Even the comeback mechanic takes a hard read.
Oh I never played BlazBlue Tag because they didn’t have “Bang”. Which I thought was complete blasphemy.
It's not a "theory" exactly but I think childhood experiences MAY set up what we view as talent though not as directly as "play fighting game as baby be good at fight game as adult". I think there may be (potentially) millions of little micro experiences that prime the brain to essentially be good at things or worse at others. And many of those things you may never guess would have an associated talent that it was priming indirectly. It's just an idea ofc I'm not an expert but it's an alternate explanation of innate talent. But we'll probably never truuuly conclude anything about nature vs nurture when it comes to talent
I have ADHD so i tend to struggle with focusing. Sometimes my awareness just buffers like a YT video.
Re: talent/natural inclincation: I do hate people pretending that hard work is not a factor for everyone, but this pushback against the idea of talent existing is also kind of silly to me. Like some people are wired/built to do certain things well. To stay in sports, Michael Phelps, for example, is also a monster! And as gets brought up, Chess prodigies are known as prodigies for a reason. Raw hard work is just not going to get you to that level. But that also doesn't mean that those prodigies do not work incredibly hard and devote tons of time and energy to it. And it also doesn't mean you can't become skilled by working hard.
I thought I was the only one who thought BBTAG was goated. Still in my top 5 fg
IQ is also pretty good at predicting your zip code, it turns out.
the new player friendly resources comment made me think of dustloop, guilty gear is my first fighting game and ive put off learning new games cause ive been spoiled by dustloop lol
I think to think about things in terms of “aptitude” not necessarily talent
The bbtag!!!
There's definitely a talent component but it's not the only component.
Some people get so annoyed when you say this tho, they seem to want to believe that anyone can do anything...
15:35 Offense easier? I say its the opposite, some old games were brutal for offense and absolutely required option selects like sf4, over heads back in the day, oh, 14 frame K', Granblue is like at 26 for an overhead
SF5 had good escape options V-Reversal and V-shift, guilty gear added deflect shield, cross up protections exist
old games never held hands and had lots of more unfair unblockables and set ups, oki was brutal with wake up being stiff
I think new players are grinding rank too fast. I really got into fighting games with strive release and saw the tower as a way to get experience against similar skilled players. You shouldn't cry when you drop a rank or be too scared to try and fail. Nothing beats getting experience under your belt and learning from there. Also helps to have a friend starting from scratch with you. But if you get to a rank and drop you can get there again
Im a add a take right now
Under night in birth is the anime goat game its better than BBTAG its just BBTAG has a better appeal and easier
Imo all the characters play too similarly, blazblue I would say blazblue is still the best anime fighter
@boop733 meh it's 50/50 but under night def does not play similar to BB especially not the combos
When I think about fighting game talent to me it all comes down to game sense. You can play for 30 years but some people just have better game sense. Imo it's a way harder skill to develop than execution or fundies etc.
People like IQ tests because its easy to attach their self worth to if they get a high score. This makes them heavily want to defend the legitimacy of the tests which creates a cycle of more people valuing their IQ scores
Imo talent does not really exist. If uve played a bunch of games as a kid ull pick up other games faster. Thats just experience. If u sit down 2 people with the exact same condition (same age, same job and so on) they will most likely perform the same. I learned sf6 relatively quick as my first fg (500hrs im ~1600mr) but if i told one of my friends to learn it theyd be fcking abysmal cuz they dont have the gaming experience.
14:45 I'd like to comment that while we do absolutely need accessibility in Fighting Games I don't believe to be the kind that people think(motion inputs and such): as a community we need to stop putting Fighting Games in a pedestal and saying that people need 100 hour in Training mode before going Online.
While yes, there are hard parts of fighting games, there are also VERY difficult parts of very popular shooters, such as Apex Legends and Deadlock, or MOBAs such as League, and yet people don't say "in order to play online you need to know all your item builds, and have spent 50 hours in training mode stutter-stepping", they just go in and have fun.
Fighting games are games that can be enjoyed by JUST knowing your normals and some spacing, you don't need the mechanical skills as we've also seen in Pro Leagues, where players choose consistently safer options for less damage BECAUSE they're safer. In short, we need to stop advertising FGs as pinnacles of difficulties and more as fun games where you can beat your friends, and improve if you're willing to.
There are other accessibilies that can be talked about like pricing and characters DLCs(which we've seen from OW2's new character releases that can also affect other games than FGCs) or the fact that developers like ArcSys have incredibily bad UI designs and matchmaking systems, but I do believe that, if the first problem is to be solved, others will be simply pushed by the mass of new players, that have these QoL in other games, but don't have them in Fighting Games.
How about your ability to train is as much particular to you as your dexterity or critical thinking skills
Im surprised i thought you would say people dont like bbtag because its simplified compared to bbcf
Tbh (ik I’ll most likely get clowned on and such), Mk11 had some decent defensive mechanics. Yes people hated them but they had counterplay. And most of the options were tied to your defense meter. Only ones that weren’t was backdashing, blocking, and dash blocking. There’s so much you can do defensively yet it doesn’t inherently take away from the other person’s offense.
Also for helping new players, top players can start reviewing lower level players’ games (like something some OW creators do). Sf6 is the easiest way to do so as you have codes for replays where anyone can watch. Like the OW creators don’t just say “You’re ass”. They say “You’re ass because of x. What you can do instead is y.” With all these fighting game streamers, top players are mainly willing to help other streamers/well know people or higher level players.
its a cool game till they armor out of your bombo then get hit with a kb into %80 🤣
@ So the same thing in literally every other fighting game? 🤔
@@HeavyShores
BBTAG is actual slop im dead
All cool with liking BBTag. But saying it's one of the best fighting games right after giving the definition you did for scrubby characters is like... that's just how you play BBTag. You build a broken strategy and let your opponent deal with it.
"nobody is talented" lol
Nice bait thumbnail XD
BBCT is legit one of the funnest best creative fighting games ever but people are people so they just dont deal with it ngl tho at this point the skill gap is insane because the game is dead now and only the rude neckbeards play it
Just a few of my own more extreme hot takes:
- Granblue Fantasy Versus Rising is the best fighting game of the last 12 months.
- Beatrix gameplay was designed for stupid baby gorillas.
- Guilty Gear gameplay is convoluted for the sake of being convoluted.
- Guilty Gear Strive is the most relevant and influential of all Guilty Gear games, and the only one that matters anyway.
- Invulnerable reversals are a bad mechanic and don't make sense in the first place.
- Shotos are a weak design and boring both to play and to play against.
- Terry Bogard is an overhyped and overrated character. In all games he appears.
- Heihachi should've stayed dead.
- MvC games are an unbalanced mess.
- DBZ is the worst work from Akira Toriyama.
- Sparking Zero is a bloated party game, not a competitive fighting game.
- Good finger gimnastics don't make a good player.
- Fighting sticks were never good, they have always been a bad design keept alive just to scam players by inflating insecure egos.
- People who reject playing figthing games value winning more than they value improving themselves.
- All fighting games should announce their seasonal dlc characters from the start. Secrecy only breeds corruption.
stop asking for F2P and start asking for content.
it's a shit model. it killed the MMO genre. it killed mobile gaming before it even began.
stop it.
shooters and moba is thriving with the f2p model. Its also working pretty well for platform fighter like brawlhalla. Its really good for accessibility
@@frizzlup5072 if by thriving you mean making millions off of gambling addicts and being the toxic cesspool of the internet then sure.
How did F2P kill the MMO genre when it's the only reason it existed for the past 2 decades? The most played MMOs _to this day_ are F2P.
I've been playing fps games my whole life and fighting games only in the past couple of years and fighting game players who claim FGs aren't hard because they are somehow struggling on some new game of other genres are completely delusional and ignorant.
There is virtually no comparison possible, fighting game is almost the only genre of video games where you are completely lost the first time you play, beyond mechanics and execution fighting games require a mindset coming into them you can instantly call a beginner because they will be flailing buttons around, the concept of button mashing doesn't exist in other genres.
Counter Strike is one of the hardest competitive shooter on the market but despite that, a beginner of FPS as a whole can go into a game, pick a weapon, run around and get some kills and he will be learning how to aim, how to position, the map layouts, all of that by simply playing. When you enter fighting games, you NEED to understand an extremely varied and complicated set of linguo like mixups, shimmies, neutral, poking, reversal, okizeme, meaty which are not only important but obligatory to simply understand what the hell is going on.
The skill disparity is also to a degree I've never seen, an average cs player could jump into call of duty, rainbow 6 or apex and most of his skills will convert easily. If you aren't the absolute cream of the crop, switching from street to Guilty Gear will 99% of the time see you get destroyed for dozens of hours become you can clutch a single round.
The amount of effort needed in a fighting game round at a given moment to just grasp the situation is insane, you have to be aware of your hp, your opponent's hp, your meter bar, the opponent's meter, their and your position, if you go for a poke, a whiff punish, projectile zoning, closing the distance, once you scored the hit you go for which combo, which oki setup, do I bait dp, do I safejump, do I shimmy, do I crossup and so much more.
Fighting game is the hardest genre of video game to get into bar none, if it weren't the case we wouldn't have those discussion to begin with, RTS are complex games but I've never saw even one RTS player complain about people thinking the genre is too hard for them. I don't think FGs need to become easier but they are inherently anti casuals and beginner.
You literally don't need any of that to get into fighting games. Especially in a game like SF6, you can do the tutorial and go straight to online matches if you want. It's fine.
Go watch the Sajam slam tournament(specifically the coaching vids/streams). Various streamers where teamed up with pro coaches with only a weak to prepare. Some of these players had never played a fighting game before btw.
Watching the coaches, none of them and I mean none of them focused on complicated jargon beyond the basics and universal mechanics. Only brining up concepts when it became necessary or if the felt the player had enough knowledge
Overwatch streamer Eskay got coaching from Nephew(after the tournament), she recently reached master and admits she didnt know any specifics of frame data or what a frame trap even is. Obviously it ain't luck she had guidance(also played a shit ton and might be built different lol) but most importantly fundamentals mattered more than anything else. She's high ranking in Tekken and Street fighter now in less than a year. "Skill doesn't carry over" is false no bones about it. Especially considering how many basic concepts and basics carry over game to game
What the good coaches focused on was: 1. "what r my characters best buttons/specials?" 2. Universal mechanics 3. Basics of defense 4. A simple gameplan (Cheese scrubs hate, and a backup for when it doesnt work lol).
My point is: yours(and many others) approach to fighting games is misguided. Hollow knight, darksouls, DMC, god of war etc. dont overload the player with all the information all at once, so dont do the same unlock strategies and tactics as you improve.
Favourite quote from tekken pros: "dont play high level tekken by yourself".
This is what happens when u consume large amounts of fgc content then expect to apply all that knowledge immediately. It's fascinating I know; the evos and the video essays and analysis r all fun.
But u should only focus on "the fundies" until u feel more confident and your opponents start getting smarter and tougher. Meaties dont work if the other guy just mashes DP all the time, so just block
@@neon-lake And most of those streamers and beginnerd are still ass at fighting games. The fact they even need coaches and can't simply learn the game by osmosis is really telling and baffle me how you don't realize it.
They wouldnt need any coaches to play a fps or a moba because they wouldnt need to, fighting game ARE harder than these genre and without a coach they would be completely lost.
Lilypichu has been playing Tekken8 for over a year and yet, she tried Strive a week ago and was completely lost at every possible level and ended up floor1 for several hours at the start. Fundies do not carry over unless you're good at fg, only vague understanding but mostly cheese.
Also I have absolutely 0 idea why you assumed I'm a beginner lmao, I'm good at FGs at 1k8 Elo in Strive and S++ rising, I was just taking the point of view of a beginner, something you people never do because you've been playing FGs for so long you just got used to playing them being easy. Reality is those streamers in 2 week could get average level player skill in a fps and are still scrub beginners in 2 weeks of fg practice with a coach. My method to learn wasn't misguided it just took a year for me but the thing you don't get is that there is virtually not a single good fighting game players who doesn't know what frame data is, nor what oki pressure is. You can avoid learning linguo in the beginning but it will bite you in the ass when you'll get 10-0 by a decent player.
BBTAG is great 🩷.. player base seemed to have dropped a lot pretty early tho
ruclips.net/video/crYKE2EYuFQ/видео.html
100% being a god at fighting games is more about loving games so much that you spend inordinate amounts of time playing them. You aren't necessarily going to be able to have that same passion for computer science or whatever. Some do, and they go into computer science probably. But it's not like you can just take a passion and skill for one thing and swap it to another thing.