It is well established through interviews with Alex and people that I know that have worked with VH that the only mic on Alex’s snare was a Shure SM57 like I am using in the video.
Rick Beato “I’ll Wait” has the perfect Alex snare sound because he overdubbed all the cymbals and hi hat. If you listen he forgot to hit the crash when the vocals came in. Eddie loved it so the left it that way. Rick is right on the mark. His snare sound really started to stand out on Diver Down and 1984
Hahahahaa not possible..al always told EDDIE...."TURN AROUND...DONT LET PEOPLE SEE HOW YOU DO HAMMER ON'S...".even his tech jonny Douglas is most likely on a GAG ORDER...HAHAHA
Kids learning to drum don’t need do fills and rolls. They need to master a steady song like And the Cradle Will Rock. No flash at all, but a powerful timekeeping beat. His best work IMO
Biggest thing I’ve noticed over the years besides the unique sound is Alex’s groove. Especially after watching a tribute band. Alex has a stutter or swing, his attack, it’s amazing. Some songs I saw him playing one bass drum for parts, & full bocefous mode for others locked in with bass. It’s pretty incredible. Alex was just as rare as Eddie.
Hey Rick, as a professional music producer myself I must say this stuff is absolutely pure gold. Super interesting and informative, thanks for being a great RUclips ambassador in music and production 💪🏻
I highly agree! I'm a 33 year old lifetime drummer and finding info on Alex Vanhalen DOES seem to be elusive. He is one of my favorite drummers and yet I never hear about him.
The sound of Alex’s rim shot sounds like he is hittin just above center. That makes for a larger sound and sharper full tone. The center is more focused, less ring, but I also don’t think he was always hitting a full rim shot and more of an off center backbeat without hitting the rim. Todd Sucherman demonstrates this approach on his appearance on drumeo
Alex’s snare has just a touch higher pitch on the attack and is a little dryer. I think if you backed off the reverb on your snare you’d be home. As someone who grew up drumming to VH nonstop, I have to give you serious props. Well done!
Hey Rick, the bits of info that you got are correct.The Pattern of Tape is a tic tac toe 4x4 tape end to end 1. Head Ludwig Silver Dot 2. Snare 14" X 5 " Ludwig (5150 Album) 3. Gaff Tape 4. Big Ass Sticks I worked at a Leeds Le Mobile (Guy Charbonneau) in North Hollywood where VH rehersed with Sammy for 2months pre 5150 tour. I cleaned up the VH room every night and you know i looked at every aspect of his kit. At that point he no longer used a traditional kick, instead the heads were replaced with plywood and it was pedal to wood with trigger. Anyhow, you nailed it anyway. Nice job, Cheers!
@@chasesolovicos254 i remember that it was for sure a 5 x 14 and remember the head a silver dot ludwig and the gaff tape 2" like a tic tac toe pattern. I remember cause i went home that night and did my snare at the time. Cant recall if it was wood or not. I almost can recall it might have been a acrolite but 32 years ago some things are bit foggy in this brain. Cheers
Said it before, saying it again: @Rick Beato is a national treasure. Not even saying it as a “fan boy.” A hundred years from now, artists will reference this work and learn, learn, LEARN! This is the absolute best of the Internet. Hands down.
Alex Van Halen's snare sound is precisely the reason why I have him in my top 2 list of most distinctive-sounding drummers ever, along with John Bonham.
Exactly! I was thrilled to see this today and I've been wondering for years how he did it! And you're right about Bonzos kit ! Very distinctive sound all around. Especially snare and rack tom!
Sweet! I asked for Alex's snare sound in the comments of episode one. I'm going to go the rest of the day with an extra lilt in my step, knowing that I influenced episode two.
I am not a drummer and am surely impressed by all these „nerdy“ technicalities. However the comments so far prove that you have - once again - hit the nerve, Rick! Obviously the recreation of sounds is a (dying?) art of its own. Great you are trying to almost scientifically investigate and thus not only preserve, but also teach this knowledge! Even though, I - as a hobby musician - can only stand with an open mouth when being confronted with all this factual and technical details. Still, I am very much impressed!
Sound design is a huge aspect of new music! Recreating sound is a branch of sound design! If you’re interested, check out Andrew yuans video on modular synthesis!
Honestly sounds like Alex is hitting rimshots the whole time. Just proves the theory that the sound is in the hands. Definitely one of my favorite drum tones next to bonzo.
I agree with this. Should have adjusted the angle of the snare stand. That might have gotten it closer. You already got closer than I expected though! Good stuff.
i didn't realize it until i saw it that THIS was the youtube video i have been waiting for since the 80's. his snare on Diver Down is one of my all time favourite tones.
@@j_freed well, i saw "youtube" on the horizon in the early 90's once i realized broadband would change the world, but no, i can't see the future. without my delorian.
It sounded like Alex's was slightly higher in pitch. Also, I remember an interview from about 30 yrs ago where Alex says he really beat the crap out of his drums and he used sticks that didn't have the head on them. Looked liked using regular sticks backwards. Don't know if that would help, but there it is. AND I'm digging this series idea. 👍
The modern equivalent would be, IMO, The Pro Mark “Rock Knockers.” They’re like timbale sticks but with a 5B diameter. I’ve used them before, looking for sticks that didn’t break. They were alright, but I wouldn’t recommend them to drummers that play on the bow of the ride a lot. The thick “tip” kind of eliminates that “ping” sound that they look for.
I'm glad someone called out the pitch. It's very obvious...however it's not actually pitch. It's low end. The Van Halen snare sounds lkke it had its low end chopped off. The recreated snare is more full spectrum so has the low end quite present. I'm very surprised when they applied EQ in the video they didn't cut from like 150 down.
These are a blast. Years ago I wrote a column for Mix Magazine called “How’d They Do That?” where we delved into this type of stuff by interviewing the engineers behind some classic sounds of the day. We did the snare sound on the chorus of “Billie Jean” and so on. So this new series is an awesome one.
I remember that column being so fascinating, that's what I looked forward to reading first when I got my monthly Mix mag. You should compile a book of those and do some more.
Alex made VH music melodic, he was more than a rhythm section.Without his brother Ed’s music was for guys like us who listen to isolated guitar tracks. Great video Rick 👍
Hey Rick. For “Recreating the Sound”, how about Brian May’s strange filtered guitar tone from “Killer Queen”? Not the solos necessarily, but odd-toned harmonized stuff that sounds sort of band-passed(?). Hopefully you know what I mean... Thanks for all the work you do to disseminate knowledge of and appreciation for everything music. Cheers.
Great question. Without direct knowledge of what all those switches do on his guitar, and a guitar loaded with identical pickups and switching configuration it could be a tough one. I think he'd have to EQ a lot if May's actual guitar isn't used, which wouldn't be how Brian got the sound, but could enable us to find it.
Great vid Rick. You'll never believe this, but I figured out how to get that "I'll Wait" snare sound shortly after VH put out 1984. Just by dumb luck, I gaffer taped the top of my Ludwig Superphonic 14x8 and started to pay attention to my tension lug by lug more than the pitch. The trick was to wear airport headphones during the whole process, once I felt I was close, I took off the headphones, and WHOA!!..nailed it, so you have the right idea, it's just the right amount of duct tape and making sure the bottom head is a little bit tighter than the top one. Funny thing is, I'm not a big fan of his kick drum sound or the roto toms and hated when he went electronic on his toms. He's still my favorite drummer though!!
That sound is SUPER close. Very nice work! Two thoughts: A. I'd bet Alex was using well played in heads, which would be a bit drier by nature of being worn in. B. Ludwig Silver Dot heads have a crimped collar, verses a Remo CS which has a glued in collar. The Ludwig crimped collar dries the head up quite a bit and lessens sustain by design. Maybe those two variables are the difference!
AVH snare sound to me personally is the best snare sound for me. Growing idolizing AVH. I got pretty close with a 2003 DW Cravitto with a coated CS Dot snares tight and it the snare tuned high and tight. It was close but not AVH. I have switched off of drums back to guitar so the snare is sitting at our jam room. Great video as usual Rick.
Sounds like Alex doesn’t bury the stick into the head. Try letting the stick rebound from the head while keeping the the stick buried on the rim for a more open sound like playing a conga. Sorry to to get so drummy technical. I wouldn’t dare question Jacks skills. I’m a big fan of his drumming!!!
good point. I have always buried the kick beater but never felt that burying the stick on the head was natural. Does it really make it that much of a sound difference?
Good afternoon Mr. Rick, Sounds very close. Alex's snare sound is definitely drier ... it sounds as though he maybe also gaff taped the inside of the shell to kill the overtones. That's what i'm hearing at least, your version has the typical ringing of the fundamental drum tone mixed in with the attack and decay of the snare, whereas Alex's is just a "Thwack!". Or maybe they just used a noise gate to stop the snare ringing after 70ms or so. Thanks again for doing these segments. Very interesting. I would like to recommend Neil Peart's drum sound from Moving Pictures for another topic. Cheers!
Definitely there's the shorter decay ring out on Alex's snare. Your idea seems like a cool thing to try out. Rick's version is still pretty close, and infinitely better than most snare recording sounds out there. Seems like newer recordings today have that "splat" sound common in the 70s. Wish there was more of that VH 'thwack" sound
Suggestion: Recently legendary producer Martin Birch died. He produced two of the to my ears best sounding rock albums ever: Rainbow Rising and Black Sabbath - Heaven and Hell. What about an analysis of the sound and dynamics of these records from a producer's point of view? Could be very interesting.
@@SoloSabbath Both? Didn't know that. Would still be interested to hear from Rick as a producer what made the sound of those records and of Birch so special.
Martin Birch was the producer for DEEP PURPLE's MACHINE HEAD, using the Rolling Stones' Mobile unit , as well as Deep Purple's LIVE IN JAPAN . Either one of these two works is sufficient to garner him legendary status as a producer.
And now Eddie is gone ! That snare drum will never play live again !! What a heartache in all the ways !! Thank you rick for amazing videos as always !
My favorite snare sound ever is John Bonham in “Stairway to Heaven.” I love the way it pops, and it almost has a wood block sound. Alex Van Halen’s snare is similar to that. Thanks for the video, as always!
20 years as a drum tech and this is the first time I have ever seen anyone put Gaff on the INSIDE of the snare head; learn something new every day. Thanks for all the awesome videos!
I wish we could have heard “our drums” in the context of the mix, rather than soloed, and vice versa. As is, Alex’s version sounds tighter, less bottom, faster decay. But that could be due to the rest of the music around it.
I've been lucky enough to be on the VH stage pre-show and have a good look at this setup on a number of their tours. Some differences that may account for the attack you're referring to. The Snare mic (SM57) was pointed at the snare shell at or near the vent hole ( yeah I know .. sounds crazy) there was most often a layer of gaff tape completely covering the blackdot drumhead. This would have been between the years 84-88.
Alex is one of the greatest rock drummers. The VH bros played off of each other amazingly. They had a killer rhythmic swing like groove. The Abbott bros remind me alot of them as well. RIP EVH, Dime and Vinnie. Thank you soo much for all the killer music and memories you have given us all!
When ever i see this kind of explanations by Mr. Beato, my mind goes back to THE BEATLES in the "Let It Be" movie & at the roof concert and to Mr. Richard Starkey drums, he put a towel on the snare drum and at first thought i think "he's doing to protect the drum from the rain" but when i see him doing it inside doors at Twikenham Studios i said "jijiji fool of me, he's doing that to get a clean sound"... peace and kudos to you out in cyberspace from Guadalaja, México 28-agosto-2020 ✌🏻😎
It's a studio trick from The Beatles' first sound engineer, Norman "Hurricane" Smith, to muffle and better control the sound of the kick drum. Geoff Emerick remembers the very first time this happened in the first session with Ringo in his memoir "Here, There and Everywhere". Smith became also Pink Floyd's first producer and later had a solo career. He also played drums. It is massively used by drummers and studios.
@@madamepampadour thank you so much Mrs. Gladys, i didn't know about that book by Mr. Emerick, but sure i'm going to look to get me a copy of it...peace and kudos to you from sunny Guadalajara, México ✌🏻😎
You sometimes have seen Ringo playing with a full pack of cigarettes on his snare. That or a leather wallet have been used as a common studio trick where now many people use damper gels. They damp but you still get the attack of the stick tip on the snare head.
It was a trick commonly used back in the 60s and 70s to get a super fat and muffled snare sound. People would also use it on toms to muffle them too. But the reason was muffling.
@@dareangelmusic The drummer in my band uses his smart phone. I don't know if he started doing it on purpose or just out of habit of taking his phone out whenever he sits down, but it works for him lol.
Coming from a musical family, I learned to play drums in my early teens but never got serious about it though I always had that hidden desire, then life happened. When I got out of the Army in '75 I began playing and gigging regularly in the San Jose CA area. Back then playing in many cover bands exposed me to wide array of music and styles. As I developed and got better I began to get compliments from friends and peers for my snare playing style and sound. So I found it interesting that I stumbled onto this video. But...if I were to try and explain my snare style and sound I would have to say it would be a mix of David Garibaldi & Leonard Haze. Your videos are all great Rick!
Jack's snare is lower, Alex played his snare higher up, could make the difference in the attack you were talking about Rick. retry with it raised up. :)
It almost sounds like the snare on the record is tuned slightly higher. But it sounds super close! Good enough to get the vibe and further develop one's own spin on it.
Leaving personal feelings aside, my gut reaction suggestion is a tad higher pitch on the tuning. And I still retain that feeling post EQ. Like you, I like to tune by feel and by pressure, and I actually play around the head near each lug, so I can tune in realtime. It is timely, but engaging. additionally, I've always thought that Alex's snare sound was like a brighter version of that of John Bonham's, particularly on early Led albums but especially on Rock And Roll. Keep up the great work Rick and studio crew.
John Douglas would know for sure. He is Alex's drum tech. John played drums with Kik Tracee and XOX out of Houston, Texas - once dubbed the hardest rocking band in Houston by the Houston Chronicle. BTW: John was an easy going guy- when we warmed up for XOX at Fitzgerald's, he let me play his purple hand-painted kit - minus his snare drum of course. When your drummer strikes the snare, his stick stays down - kind of laying on top of the snare/muting it a bit - perhaps try a more "snap" approach - coming up off the snare after the hit. Fun video. I like the new series - Beato "recreating the sound."
Some ideas for you, maybe: try to recreate the "Footloose" (Kenny Loggins) kick and snare, Phil Collins' gated reverb technique, (Simmons) drums of Def Leppard, and how many '80s artists combined drum machines w/ real drums.
From 1983 Modern Drummer interview: "The snare is just miked from the top and lately what we’ve done is put the mic’ right against the shell. I’m using a rosewood snare [6 1/2 x 14] now and that’s how I got the sound on “Pretty Woman,” which gets a much liver sound. I always record with the kit on a wood something, with wood around it, so it does bounce around a little bit. If you hear the echo, most of it is acoustic, not machine. It makes a difference. I like to keep it generic." To my ears the snare on "Pretty Woman" is the same snare on "'I'll Wait", just tuned/recorded slightly differently. I think you guys got as close as you can using a metal snare but it's missing the crispness of the rosewood shell.
@@Kirkshelton I can see why some people thought it was a bronze ludwig. I own a gretsch bronze and it has some very earthy and wood qualities to it's tone.
Well done. It was very close. That is what I liked so much about the Van Halen drum sound. Alex’s snare make the sound. Every time I hear the snare, I know right away that it is Alex Van Halen playing. Great video!
@@trope5105 I know this is an old comment, but you're on to something here. It does sound like there's a slight reverse reverb, maybe from an AMS, but gated so it sounds drier. This might even account for the pitch difference, since the pitch on Jack's snare goes down a bit because you hear the whole tail. Also, putting the tape on the outside of the head would have helped this, too, although not all of his live snares had the outside tape.
I would imagine this is similar in difficulty to recreating Eddie's guitar tone. Such high caliber players have such nuance and feel you can never really recreate what they've done. This was a really good attempt and a good snare sound.
The snare drum of John Stanier from Helmet - especially on the Betty Album - is one of the most discussed sounds since the mid 90s.. Maybe an inspiration for Your next great video :-)
Sounds spot on. I know that there are those little nuances that every musician brings to their particular instrument that are signatures of their own. That is one of the things that makes music so great. Awesome work on this!
The first time I heard "Finish What You Started" on the radio I knew it was VH after about 10 seconds. Alex has always been in the shadow of Eddie. They're both awesome.
In the JUMP video, there are a couple of overhead shots on the snare and you could clearly see the "A" tape on the head. It seems that the tape is put on top of the head rather the under side. I studied Alex's sound as well and tried this "A" pattern with hockey tape back in 1990 and I got the same similar AVH snare sound on a cheap 60's "Capri" drum snare. I think the sound can be recreated on most snare drums to be honest....
Great job, Rick! A fair point at 9:50 you mention that ‘something’ that is missing in attack etc. It’s, as you said, Al’s approach and rim shots...but it’s also that Al uses GIGANTIC sticks. Like, I mean HUGE. Check out his signature sticks from RegalTip-freaking baseball bats.
Thanks for this. I’ve been waiting since Fair Warning. This might be my favorite sound in rock music. Equipment + modification + musical idea + technique+ production = perfection. My favorite element is technique. I agree with the discussion in that it’s the bounce of the stick and letting the drum sing that’s the key. It gives the drum “attack”.
was searching for a comment like this, cause he said the pitch was right. A great factor could also be that we here his drums soloed but alex's drums in context.
One of the most similar to John Bonham's snare drum sound. I would like to see "Recreating the Sound of Bonham", I know it is impossible, but it can be approached!
I always thought he may have been inspired by Jimmy Page's riff from.. In The Light ...that sinister type of "dark" he projected there...offsetted by JPJ's "light " on his keyboard riff
Yes, yes yes! Even many diehard VH fans don't realize that Edward never, ever referred to his guitar tone as the "brown sound". He was talking about the "wooden" quality of his brother's snare sound. He said it sounded like he was hitting a log or something along those lines!
Although this re-creation is VERY interesting and remarkably close to the recording used for comparison, it is likely impossible to recreate Alex's (or any other drummer's) exact sound from any given recording. It is logical that every time Alex set up his drums (or someone set up his drums for him), there would be subtle but recognizable differences in the sound. As long as the basic sound structure being produced is similar and consistent from performance to performance, such subtle differences do not really matter. I learned a lot from this video!
@@michaelhicks5150 - Ahh, yes! I hadn't noticed because youtube's suggestions were blocking the view! And it looks like Alex had actually put the tape on top of the head, as opposed to underneath :-)
True, but maybe he didn't do it that way in the studio? Would love to see some photos of the drum setup for the 1984 sessions to see for certain. Either that or maybe Rick can do a follow up with the tape on the top and compare?
I had beers with Ted Templeman and he said....."actually, it was all done on the board mix, because Alex was allergic to gaff tape....". Rick, you NAILED it!
Tommy Nikon this contradicts everything I’ve ever heard about how Al got his snare sound, though. They say he heavily coated the underside of the batter head in tape? I’m not doubting you, or Ted, to be clear. Maybe this was later in his career that he did that?
Rick, Jack is burying the the stick as well, where it’s always sounded like Alex popped it but rested above the head, leaving that extra tone, a-la Bonham, no? The crack is there from the impact but the note isn’t singing because just like burying a beater in the kick, the note is choked from the stick.
That's interesting, I feel even the sticking on hihats as well as the relative volume matter. Sometimes of course one can even lay off hats on backbeats too.
It sounds like the only difference is you had a little more reverb, and ring. Not sure if VH used more deadening on the head, or noise gate setting. If there was a difference in EQ I couldn’t hear it. Sounds nice!
I thought the same thing. Sounds like VH uses a gate on the snare to roll it off quickly. Love this channel for the teaching and collaboration it creates.
For future episodes: Ty Tabor of King's X and the LAB Series amp tone era. Jimi Hendrix: Voodoo Chile (the slow blues version on Electric Ladyland) and Who Knows from Band of Gypys.
I would love to see this series explore the drum sounds on Metallica's black album, or perhaps the oft-discussed kick drum sound from ...And Justice for All. Also the bass on Motorhead's Ace of Spades comes to mind. Great, unique new series!
Thanks Rick! I grew up in the 70's and 80's And i am a drummer....i always was mesmerized by Vh especially Alexs sound and drums.....he had some what i would say were non typical drum fills that added some intrigue as well.
I've noticed over the years that drummer friends and I have different tones when we play the exact same drum. This makes me believe that Alex is the missing ingredient in all of this.
I remember a rehearsal of DKV Trio, the drummer who borrowed the his kit for the gig was sitting next to me and listening to Hamid Drake playing his kit. He said "fu#$, this sound so good, it thought something is wrong with my drums, it's me who is the wrong component of the kit". Full respect to Rick's colleague drummer (sorry, my bad, I don't remember his name now!), but yeah, the drummer makes a difference ;-)
Here's a remarkable guitar sound you can attempt: Alex Lifeson's *ENORMOUS* tone on the studio version of "The Camera Eye," most notably when the song explodes at 1:32, and those fretted/open string (or at least that's what I suspect; I've never tried to learn it) ornaments at 1:51 - 1:54. They sound like pure electricity!!!! Alternatively: David Gilmour's ***EVEN MORE GIGANTIC*** guitar tone on the *original* (NOT the recent remix, of which I'm not a fan) "Sorrow." I read that the original recording was pumped into an empty football stadium, and the subsequent sound mixed in with the original, so it would be a really great challenge. Given the spatial algorithms available now, it's probably not too outlandish a goal to recreate it.
I have to admit, though: I reckon Alex's tone in the solo is rather underwhelming, especially compared to all his other parts, and I'm always being 'distracted' by that awesome bass-playing and sound that's happening at the same time :-)
@@mightyV444 Geddy's Rickenbacker bass tone in those days was amazing, it had a kind of chime and grumble to it that he has never topped. I really wished he had used that bass and rig on Clockwork Angels.
On first blush the first thing I would try is cranking head and possibly snare tension a little. It's always amazed me how guys can make the same drum sound different too.
Recreating The Sound next episode? Guitar in "How Soon Is Now" by The Smiths. I know that other people have done it but I would love to see Rick's take on it.
I think you've got the right snare sound here but Jack's high hat was closed. Alex tends to play with a tad more open hi-hat, so what we hear with AVH is snare with hi-hat ringing instead of just the snare. That's what's missing for me in this attempt.
I noticed that as well, it changes the dynamics and let the snare ringing as Rick said - also it seems AVH's tail of the snare comes mainly from ambience enhanced by compression rather than reverb - my 2c
Love it!! I put duct tape on my snare in jr high in the late 70's trying to copy Alex! I thought he put on the top outside of the head. There is no copying Alex!
Alex did put the gaffer tape on the top. Rick is wrong in this video. If you Google Alex Van Haley’s snare, you will find at least 4 different times he had put lots of gaffer tape on the top of the batter head. It makes no sense in putting an insane amount of tape on the underside of a head, then putting it on the shell, then attempt tuning. Adjusting the amount of muffling after the head is tuned is impossible unless the real head is off. This method is ridiculous when you stop to think about it. Also, putting tape on an unmounted unstretched head is going to make the head hard to stretch evenly and in turn making it difficult to tune (and stay in tune as the tape’s adhesive battle against the stretching of the head).
Hi Rick, I'm a guitar guy by trade but having listened to the A - B, I believe taking off some tape and maybe tune up the head up ever so slightly you might be spot on. Alex's snare definitely has a certain "attack" but tuning up slightly and removing a strip of tape may give it more "pop" (lightly brighter - punch) to emulate Alex's snare tone. Great work as always, keep the videos coming!
@@skyreadersociety6183 REALLY loud....so much so, that he requested a bucket of ice be set up behind him to swap out 2 sets of headphones (as told to me by the engineer who witnessed him at the studio when I tracked there back in the early 90s). His head was steaming after each take.
How about recreating Neil Peart’ Tom sound from the 80’s and 90’s. Really high pitched toms that have great definition. Listen to Exit Stage Left of A Show of Hands. I’d love to have a kit that sounds like his Rosewood Tama kit or his first Ludwig kit.
@@erikkroll2154 - You mean the red one? It also had a thin acrylic layer inside the shells. His previous Tama kit (as seen in the 'Exit...Stage Left' clips) does indeed look like it's made of rosewood :-)
@K Schaaf - I was listening to 'Subdivisions' only the other day and was in awe again of the amazing drum sound! 😀 Neil's kit sounds best on that 'Signals' album, I reckon; Love the intro fill in 'Digital Man' in particular 🙂
Even better, Geddy's Ric live tone on, say, Exit Stage Left, or his studio tone on Circumstances. Legendary bass sound, wish he had never quit using that bass. Let me also add the tone from Countdown, the last Rush studio track to feature Geddy's Rickenbacker, and a glorious tone it is.
Van Halen was a pepperoni pizza: the best type of food, and the best type of pizza. Simple but perfect. One tends to see the pepperonis as the star of the show, and for good reason, but none of it would be any good if the rest of it wasn’t just as perfect. Whether we know it or not, Alex’s drums are like that perfect crust that’s so good, you don’t think about it, but if it was any different it would suck. His snare sound contributed so much to the overall product. I’m glad to see you’re giving it center stage for this video. Here’s another Alex-thing that is easy to overlook though, one that’s just as important to the sound: his hi-hat sound. Most hi-hats makes a “tsssss” sound. His just hiss like a snake - just a “ssssss”. Especially on “I’ll wait”. Eddie used to talk about how when somebody would pick up his guitar and try to play like him through his setup, it sounded completely different. Im inclined to believe that the the same goes for Alex. He could probably have a seat at a Hello Kitty drum set and sound like Alex Van Halen.
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It is well established through interviews with Alex and people that I know that have worked with VH that the only mic on Alex’s snare was a Shure SM57 like I am using in the video.
Rick Beato “I’ll Wait” has the perfect Alex snare sound because he overdubbed all the cymbals and hi hat. If you listen he forgot to hit the crash when the vocals came in. Eddie loved it so the left it that way. Rick is right on the mark. His snare sound really started to stand out on Diver Down and 1984
Y'didn't have the snare b'tween 4-6 kick-drums....?
This is awesome!! I’ve searched for years for something like this!
@@johnconklin795 wow I love that snare on I'll wait. Thanks for the info!
Lol I liked the video before watching the content . 😂 great idea
You should try get Alex on the show, would be great to hear him talk about all of this stuff.
👏👏👏👏👏
Good luck!
Hahahahaa not possible..al always told EDDIE...."TURN AROUND...DONT LET PEOPLE SEE HOW YOU DO HAMMER ON'S...".even his tech jonny Douglas is most likely on a GAG ORDER...HAHAHA
^
Yep
That AVH is a recluse
Alex's playing has such groove and pulse; his cymbal work is also unmatched. He's not a flashy virtuoso, but he's a drummer's drummer.
I agree 100.....Neil is better technically but al is my fav....
Kids learning to drum don’t need do fills and rolls. They need to master a steady song like And the Cradle Will Rock. No flash at all, but a powerful timekeeping beat. His best work IMO
He can be flashy when he wanted. Girl Gone Bad, Outta Love, Hot for Teacher, Get Up, House of Pain, Pleasure Dome, to name a few.
He actually wanted to play guitar but eddie was like nah I'mma do that
@@kingmusic3617 really? If true, that’s very interesting and cool to learn.
Biggest thing I’ve noticed over the years besides the unique sound is Alex’s groove. Especially after watching a tribute band. Alex has a stutter or swing, his attack, it’s amazing. Some songs I saw him playing one bass drum for parts, & full bocefous mode for others locked in with bass. It’s pretty incredible. Alex was just as rare as Eddie.
Alex's snare sound is absolute gold. I also love how he grooves like no other rock drummer.
Hey Rick, as a professional music producer myself I must say this stuff is absolutely pure gold. Super interesting and informative, thanks for being a great RUclips ambassador in music and production 💪🏻
Thank you!🙏🏻
@@RickBeato ...You also have a very cool studio....love the lighting.
I highly agree! I'm a 33 year old lifetime drummer and finding info on Alex Vanhalen DOES seem to be elusive. He is one of my favorite drummers and yet I never hear about him.
@@kellerc73 I'm 40something and yea his snare sound was always iconic.
What a great concept for a series, Rick! Kudos.
The sound of Alex’s rim shot sounds like he is hittin just above center. That makes for a larger sound and sharper full tone. The center is more focused, less ring, but I also don’t think he was always hitting a full rim shot and more of an off center backbeat without hitting the rim.
Todd Sucherman demonstrates this approach on his appearance on drumeo
Alex’s snare has just a touch higher pitch on the attack and is a little dryer. I think if you backed off the reverb on your snare you’d be home. As someone who grew up drumming to VH nonstop, I have to give you serious props. Well done!
I agree with you. :)
Felt the same. Alex also had a sharper attack and the decay is a bit off...
I agree his snare is just a bit higher but it's super close not bad
I thought so too. I commented before I saw yours. Damn close.
I agree. The length of the decay is a touch too long. I wonder if it's less reverb, a shorter tail, or perhaps a noise gate tightening up the decay?
Hey Rick, the bits of info that you got are correct.The Pattern of Tape is a tic tac toe 4x4 tape end to end
1. Head Ludwig Silver Dot
2. Snare 14" X 5 " Ludwig (5150 Album)
3. Gaff Tape
4. Big Ass Sticks
I worked at a Leeds Le Mobile (Guy Charbonneau) in North Hollywood where VH rehersed with Sammy for 2months pre 5150 tour. I cleaned up the VH room every night and you know i looked at every aspect of his kit. At that point he no longer used a traditional kick, instead the heads were replaced with plywood and it was pedal to wood with trigger. Anyhow, you nailed it anyway. Nice job, Cheers!
Hey, are you saying Alex used a 5x14 snare on the 5150 album? I thought he was still using the Tama Rosewood 6.5x14 ?
@@chasesolovicos254 i remember that it was for sure a 5 x 14 and remember the head a silver dot ludwig and the gaff tape 2" like a tic tac toe pattern. I remember cause i went home that night and did my snare at the time. Cant recall if it was wood or not. I almost can recall it might have been a acrolite but 32 years ago some things are bit foggy in this brain. Cheers
Said it before, saying it again: @Rick Beato is a national treasure. Not even saying it as a “fan boy.” A hundred years from now, artists will reference this work and learn, learn, LEARN! This is the absolute best of the Internet. Hands down.
Alex Van Halen's snare sound is precisely the reason why I have him in my top 2 list of most distinctive-sounding drummers ever, along with John Bonham.
Exactly! I was thrilled to see this today and I've been wondering for years how he did it! And you're right about Bonzos kit ! Very distinctive sound all around. Especially snare and rack tom!
Alex never gets props! Great drumming and always wicked good tuning
Sweet! I asked for Alex's snare sound in the comments of episode one. I'm going to go the rest of the day with an extra lilt in my step, knowing that I influenced episode two.
Haha! Awesome...it must bea good feeling.
Would’ve sounded more like AVH if you’d taken off your shirt and put on a headband.
And wore sunglasses 24/7!
And the mid 90s neck brace!
...And some studded leather suspenders from BDSM R Us...
Some people complain about the commenters on the internet. To me, they are the only thing that make the internet worth being on. LOL
Don't I hear some reverse gate in the original? It creates a "breathy" feel.
Alex is an incredible drummer!! His tone and the way he plays are instantly recognizable!!
I am not a drummer and am surely impressed by all these „nerdy“ technicalities. However the comments so far prove that you have - once again - hit the nerve, Rick! Obviously the recreation of sounds is a (dying?) art of its own. Great you are trying to almost scientifically investigate and thus not only preserve, but also teach this knowledge! Even though, I - as a hobby musician - can only stand with an open mouth when being confronted with all this factual and technical details. Still, I am very much impressed!
Sound design is a huge aspect of new music!
Recreating sound is a branch of sound design!
If you’re interested, check out Andrew yuans video on modular synthesis!
Alex hits the rimshots hard. Really Solid. The stick is almost flat a foot an a half off the snare and he slams it down that way. It’s unique.
Not really unique. It's the way most hard rock drummers hit the backbeat on a mid tempo song.
Chris Squire's Rickenbacker bass sound. I've heard he had his Rickenbacker body refinished (maybe 3 times) before the tech refused to do any more.
Yes! Excellent idea! No other bass player had that incredible sound that Christopher had!
Or Geddy Lee
Or Tony Levin's bass tone for Sledgehammer by Peter Gabriel! I seem to recall he uses metal rods on the end of his plucking fingers.
@@Crazyfistish Tony used a fretless Musician bass, pick, and octave pedal to achieve that particular sound.
@@kevinlevesque7422 Ahh I just looked it up, you're right! Always thought it was those rods, wonder what he used those for instead...
Honestly sounds like Alex is hitting rimshots the whole time. Just proves the theory that the sound is in the hands. Definitely one of my favorite drum tones next to bonzo.
Alex’s major influence was Bonzo. 👍
I agree with this. Should have adjusted the angle of the snare stand. That might have gotten it closer. You already got closer than I expected though! Good stuff.
@@sinnedam Should have gotten a rock drummer who knows how to lay in a rimshot without burying the tip on the stick on the head.
For the next vid, Rick will recreate the Lars Ulrich snare sound from St Anger - utilizing a old garbage can lid, a brown banana and super glue.
Great idea!
LOL!
Lars Ulrich has the worst drum sound since Steve Lillywhite was destroying the instrument.
I though it was an empty petrol drum falling off a ship and hitting a buoy
@@alex0589 It wasn't empty. It contained the cadaver of a pirate.
Gotta love Alex Van Halen’s snare drum sound....absolutely has his signature sound !!
i didn't realize it until i saw it that THIS was the youtube video i have been waiting for since the 80's.
his snare on Diver Down is one of my all time favourite tones.
@@j_freed well, i saw "youtube" on the horizon in the early 90's once i realized broadband would change the world, but no, i can't see the future.
without my delorian.
It sounded like Alex's was slightly higher in pitch. Also, I remember an interview from about 30 yrs ago where Alex says he really beat the crap out of his drums and he used sticks that didn't have the head on them. Looked liked using regular sticks backwards. Don't know if that would help, but there it is.
AND I'm digging this series idea. 👍
The modern equivalent would be, IMO, The Pro Mark “Rock Knockers.” They’re like timbale sticks but with a 5B diameter.
I’ve used them before, looking for sticks that didn’t break. They were alright, but I wouldn’t recommend them to drummers that play on the bow of the ride a lot. The thick “tip” kind of eliminates that “ping” sound that they look for.
Oh, and Pro Mark > Vic Firth. Suck it, nerds.
Agreed, the pitch could have been a bit higher to match better.
Also agree. I feel like with just a subtle tweak, even in post, it could bring it up so slightly, and viola!
I'm glad someone called out the pitch. It's very obvious...however it's not actually pitch. It's low end. The Van Halen snare sounds lkke it had its low end chopped off. The recreated snare is more full spectrum so has the low end quite present. I'm very surprised when they applied EQ in the video they didn't cut from like 150 down.
These are a blast. Years ago I wrote a column for Mix Magazine called “How’d They Do That?” where we delved into this type of stuff by interviewing the engineers behind some classic sounds of the day. We did the snare sound on the chorus of “Billie Jean” and so on. So this new series is an awesome one.
And that sure is quite a unique and recognisable snare sound too, the 'Billy Jean' one! :-)
I remember that column being so fascinating, that's what I looked forward to reading first when I got my monthly Mix mag.
You should compile a book of those and do some more.
Alex made VH music melodic, he was more than a rhythm section.Without his brother Ed’s music was for guys like us who listen to isolated guitar tracks. Great video Rick 👍
Hey Rick. For “Recreating the Sound”, how about Brian May’s strange filtered guitar tone from “Killer Queen”? Not the solos necessarily, but odd-toned harmonized stuff that sounds sort of band-passed(?). Hopefully you know what I mean... Thanks for all the work you do to disseminate knowledge of and appreciation for everything music. Cheers.
Great idea
This one! just Brian May’s tone in general
Great question. Without direct knowledge of what all those switches do on his guitar, and a guitar loaded with identical pickups and switching configuration it could be a tough one. I think he'd have to EQ a lot if May's actual guitar isn't used, which wouldn't be how Brian got the sound, but could enable us to find it.
@@jemadriano1217 One is his picks: British sixpence coins.
Great idea! or Brian May sound in general
Great vid Rick. You'll never believe this, but I figured out how to get that "I'll Wait" snare sound shortly after VH put out 1984. Just by dumb luck, I gaffer taped the top of my Ludwig Superphonic 14x8 and started to pay attention to my tension lug by lug more than the pitch. The trick was to wear airport headphones during the whole process, once I felt I was close, I took off the headphones, and WHOA!!..nailed it, so you have the right idea, it's just the right amount of duct tape and making sure the bottom head is a little bit tighter than the top one. Funny thing is, I'm not a big fan of his kick drum sound or the roto toms and hated when he went electronic on his toms. He's still my favorite drummer though!!
That sound is SUPER close. Very nice work! Two thoughts:
A. I'd bet Alex was using well played in heads, which would be a bit drier by nature of being worn in.
B. Ludwig Silver Dot heads have a crimped collar, verses a Remo CS which has a glued in collar. The Ludwig crimped collar dries the head up quite a bit and lessens sustain by design.
Maybe those two variables are the difference!
He used a Ludwig Silver dot in this test though.
@@todds6048 - Nah, it's a Remo CS. The Silver Dot arrived with him "the next day", as he says.
Good point
I think you’re looking into it too much. The difference is the drummer! Haha! Good points tho seriously
Had to watch this one again cause AVH has the best snare sound of ALL time!!❤
AVH snare sound to me personally is the best snare sound for me. Growing idolizing AVH. I got pretty close with a 2003 DW Cravitto with a coated CS Dot snares tight and it the snare tuned high and tight. It was close but not AVH. I have switched off of drums back to guitar so the snare is sitting at our jam room. Great video as usual Rick.
Sounds like Alex doesn’t bury the stick into the head. Try letting the stick rebound from the head while keeping the the stick buried on the rim for a more open sound like playing a conga. Sorry to to get so drummy technical. I wouldn’t dare question Jacks skills. I’m a big fan of his drumming!!!
Technique is sooo important! Even for a pounder like Alex.
good point. I have always buried the kick beater but never felt that burying the stick on the head was natural. Does it really make it that much of a sound difference?
My thoughts exactly he is muffling the sustain by holding his stick on the head towards the end of stroke can't do that it messes the sound
Yes, good point!!
YES - if you bury the stick on the head, you're doing the gaffer tape's job. Let it bounce.
This was unexpected. As a drummer, I have to say, I love it.
This guy is one of the all time best rock drummers in my opinion . Alex Van Halen
Good afternoon Mr. Rick,
Sounds very close. Alex's snare sound is definitely drier ... it sounds as though he maybe also gaff taped the inside of the shell to kill the overtones. That's what i'm hearing at least, your version has the typical ringing of the fundamental drum tone mixed in with the attack and decay of the snare, whereas Alex's is just a "Thwack!". Or maybe they just used a noise gate to stop the snare ringing after 70ms or so.
Thanks again for doing these segments. Very interesting. I would like to recommend Neil Peart's drum sound from Moving Pictures for another topic.
Cheers!
That’s what I was going to say! Thwack, no ring tone! Very cool.
I agree, there’s less reverberation of the overtones on Alex’s take. Pretty much all attack and cut off immediately after
Definitely there's the shorter decay ring out on Alex's snare. Your idea seems like a cool thing to try out. Rick's version is still pretty close, and infinitely better than most snare recording sounds out there. Seems like newer recordings today have that "splat" sound common in the 70s. Wish there was more of that VH 'thwack" sound
It indeed has a "THWACK"!
I agree with the “THWACK”, but I definitely hear a subtle high-pitched ring on Alex’s snare. The Beato version to me is lacking that element.
You picked the perfect song. In fact the whole 1984 album had such a great drum sound to it.
Suggestion:
Recently legendary producer Martin Birch died. He produced two of the to my ears best sounding rock albums ever: Rainbow Rising and Black Sabbath - Heaven and Hell.
What about an analysis of the sound and dynamics of these records from a producer's point of view? Could be very interesting.
he produced your two ears?
Good suggestion, but those are "blockers" as Rick would say.
@@SoloSabbath Both? Didn't know that. Would still be interested to hear from Rick as a producer what made the sound of those records and of Birch so special.
Martin Birch was the producer for DEEP PURPLE's MACHINE HEAD, using the Rolling Stones' Mobile unit , as well as Deep Purple's LIVE IN JAPAN . Either one of these two works is sufficient to garner him legendary status as a producer.
I think it was Alex who coined the name "brown sound" for his snare and then Eddie used the same term for his guitar tone...awesome video Rick, thanks
"So This Is Love?" off Fair Warning is my favorite Alex snare sound.
Yeah that's a great one. That dude can't not swing.
Definitely! That's the example I use trying to explain it!
Van Halen I believe truly captured what it meant to be rock, and did it in a way like none other. Everyone in Van Halen is superb!
David lee roth era or sammy hagar
@@lukewatson4381 I prefer Roth, but both eras produced amazing music.
Love this series. It teaches me a lot about audio and producing. Keep it up rick!
And now Eddie is gone ! That snare drum will never play live again !! What a heartache in all the ways !! Thank you rick for amazing videos as always !
...... Alex is still alive...so....he could still play drums, if he wanted.
@@bksmith82 not with van halen at least
Alex Lifeson’s guitar sound from Hemispheres
Or Xanadu
The only thing missing is Alex. That sound is almost dead on !! I’m a drummer and I believe we each have our own nuisances. Thanks Rick!
My favorite snare sound ever is John Bonham in “Stairway to Heaven.” I love the way it pops, and it almost has a wood block sound. Alex Van Halen’s snare is similar to that. Thanks for the video, as always!
Agree 100%. And other than Alex, who clearly found the Bonham sound, most 80's metal drummers had very thin sounding snares.
20 years as a drum tech and this is the first time I have ever seen anyone put Gaff on the INSIDE of the snare head; learn something new every day. Thanks for all the awesome videos!
Tape on the outside gets chewed up and has to be constantly redone if it's in the playing area.
@@markuschelios6891 well...yeah. Just saying I haven’t seen anyone do that before (either in the studio or on tour).
I wish we could have heard “our drums” in the context of the mix, rather than soloed, and vice versa. As is, Alex’s version sounds tighter, less bottom, faster decay. But that could be due to the rest of the music around it.
I've been lucky enough to be on the VH stage pre-show and have a good look at this setup on a number of their tours.
Some differences that may account for the attack you're referring to. The Snare mic (SM57) was pointed at the snare shell at or near the vent hole ( yeah I know .. sounds crazy) there was most often a layer of gaff tape completely covering the blackdot drumhead. This would have been between the years 84-88.
Looking forward to this series! 😎 Alex’s snare has a “crisper” sound to my ears but this was very close.
Alex is one of the greatest rock drummers. The VH bros played off of each other amazingly. They had a killer rhythmic swing like groove. The Abbott bros remind me alot of them as well. RIP EVH, Dime and Vinnie. Thank you soo much for all the killer music and memories you have given us all!
When ever i see this kind of explanations by Mr. Beato, my mind goes back to THE BEATLES in the "Let It Be" movie & at the roof concert and to Mr. Richard Starkey drums, he put a towel on the snare drum and at first thought i think "he's doing to protect the drum from the rain" but when i see him doing it inside doors at Twikenham Studios i said "jijiji fool of me, he's doing that to get a clean sound"... peace and kudos to you out in cyberspace from Guadalaja, México 28-agosto-2020 ✌🏻😎
It's a studio trick from The Beatles' first sound engineer, Norman "Hurricane" Smith, to muffle and better control the sound of the kick drum. Geoff Emerick remembers the very first time this happened in the first session with Ringo in his memoir "Here, There and Everywhere". Smith became also Pink Floyd's first producer and later had a solo career. He also played drums. It is massively used by drummers and studios.
@@madamepampadour thank you so much Mrs. Gladys, i didn't know about that book by Mr. Emerick, but sure i'm going to look to get me a copy of it...peace and kudos to you from sunny Guadalajara, México ✌🏻😎
You sometimes have seen Ringo playing with a full pack of cigarettes on his snare. That or a leather wallet have been used as a common studio trick where now many people use damper gels. They damp but you still get the attack of the stick tip on the snare head.
It was a trick commonly used back in the 60s and 70s to get a super fat and muffled snare sound. People would also use it on toms to muffle them too. But the reason was muffling.
@@dareangelmusic The drummer in my band uses his smart phone. I don't know if he started doing it on purpose or just out of habit of taking his phone out whenever he sits down, but it works for him lol.
Personally, since my musical beginnings I’ve always dug Alex’s snare sound. No one has ever explained how to achieve it so closely. Nice work. 👍🏼🇨🇦
Actually someone has. Check out a video of a guy in Australia. It’s perfect. Tama rosewood with 42 strands
Geddy’s bass tone on Moving Pictures. Iconic!
Coming from a musical family, I learned to play drums in my early teens but never got serious about it though I always had that hidden desire, then life happened. When I got out of the Army in '75 I began playing and gigging regularly in the San Jose CA area. Back then playing in many cover bands exposed me to wide array of music and styles. As I developed and got better I began to get compliments from friends and peers for my snare playing style and sound. So I found it interesting that I stumbled onto this video. But...if I were to try and explain my snare style and sound I would have to say it would be a mix of David Garibaldi & Leonard Haze. Your videos are all great Rick!
Jack's snare is lower, Alex played his snare higher up, could make the difference in the attack you were talking about Rick. retry with it raised up. :)
I agree! Tune it higher. Also, sensed a “woodie” tone. I’d try a wood snare and compare the two.
Both would help heaps. A change in sticks too is what I was vibing on.
I agree, Jack sounds like he’s tuned slightly lower.
It almost sounds like the snare on the record is tuned slightly higher. But it sounds super close! Good enough to get the vibe and further develop one's own spin on it.
Leaving personal feelings aside, my gut reaction suggestion is a tad higher pitch on the tuning. And I still retain that feeling post EQ. Like you, I like to tune by feel and by pressure, and I actually play around the head near each lug, so I can tune in realtime. It is timely, but engaging. additionally, I've always thought that Alex's snare sound was like a brighter version of that of John Bonham's, particularly on early Led albums but especially on Rock And Roll. Keep up the great work Rick and studio crew.
John Douglas would know for sure. He is Alex's drum tech. John played drums with Kik Tracee and XOX out of Houston, Texas - once dubbed the hardest rocking band in Houston by the Houston Chronicle. BTW: John was an easy going guy- when we warmed up for XOX at Fitzgerald's, he let me play his purple hand-painted kit - minus his snare drum of course.
When your drummer strikes the snare, his stick stays down - kind of laying on top of the snare/muting it a bit - perhaps try a more "snap" approach - coming up off the snare after the hit.
Fun video. I like the new series - Beato "recreating the sound."
You guys nailed his sound, nice work
Some ideas for you, maybe: try to recreate the "Footloose" (Kenny Loggins) kick and snare, Phil Collins' gated reverb technique, (Simmons) drums of Def Leppard, and how many '80s artists combined drum machines w/ real drums.
Michael Ireland yea! I second that motion! ;)
All horrendously overproduced drum sounds that should die a quick death.
@@sea-ferring Agree!
From 1983 Modern Drummer interview: "The snare is just miked from the top and lately what we’ve done is put the mic’ right against the shell. I’m using a rosewood snare [6 1/2 x 14] now and that’s how I got the sound on “Pretty Woman,” which gets a much liver sound. I always record with the kit on a wood something, with wood around it, so it does bounce around a little bit. If you hear the echo, most of it is acoustic, not machine. It makes a difference. I like to keep it generic."
To my ears the snare on "Pretty Woman" is the same snare on "'I'll Wait", just tuned/recorded slightly differently. I think you guys got as close as you can using a metal snare but it's missing the crispness of the rosewood shell.
So, wood snare, surrounded by wood (ceiling, floor, panel) with the mic pointed at the side/shell.
Generic? More like Organic. :D
I'm no expert but I felt like the VH sounded like a wood shell too. It's that earthy crack sound.
@@Kirkshelton I can see why some people thought it was a bronze ludwig. I own a gretsch bronze and it has some very earthy and wood qualities to it's tone.
Well done. It was very close. That is what I liked so much about the Van Halen drum sound. Alex’s snare make the sound. Every time I hear the snare, I know right away that it is Alex Van Halen playing. Great video!
The snare Jack is playing doesn’t have enough snap and i can hear it is low, the pitch is off, but Jack is a bad ass drummer!!!
agree, the pitch isnt even close , an the reverb on alex's track goes higher after it is hit
@@trope5105 I know this is an old comment, but you're on to something here. It does sound like there's a slight reverse reverb, maybe from an AMS, but gated so it sounds drier. This might even account for the pitch difference, since the pitch on Jack's snare goes down a bit because you hear the whole tail. Also, putting the tape on the outside of the head would have helped this, too, although not all of his live snares had the outside tape.
I would imagine this is similar in difficulty to recreating Eddie's guitar tone. Such high caliber players have such nuance and feel you can never really recreate what they've done. This was a really good attempt and a good snare sound.
The snare drum of John Stanier from Helmet - especially on the Betty Album - is one of the most discussed sounds since the mid 90s.. Maybe an inspiration for Your next great video :-)
Yes! Would love to see what Rick thinks about that signature Helmet snare sound
That first Helmet album is 🔥🔥🔥
Sounds spot on. I know that there are those little nuances that every musician brings to their particular instrument that are signatures of their own. That is one of the things that makes music so great. Awesome work on this!
The first time I heard "Finish What You Started" on the radio I knew it was VH after about 10 seconds. Alex has always been in the shadow of Eddie. They're both awesome.
In the JUMP video, there are a couple of overhead shots on the snare and you could clearly see the "A" tape on the head. It seems that the tape is put on top of the head rather the under side.
I studied Alex's sound as well and tried this "A" pattern with hockey tape back in 1990 and I got the same similar AVH snare sound on a cheap 60's "Capri" drum snare.
I think the sound can be recreated on most snare drums to be honest....
Yeah I thought the tape is on the outside as well, just a triangle around the dot.
Great job, Rick! A fair point at 9:50 you mention that ‘something’ that is missing in attack etc. It’s, as you said, Al’s approach and rim shots...but it’s also that Al uses GIGANTIC sticks. Like, I mean HUGE. Check out his signature sticks from RegalTip-freaking baseball bats.
Thanks for this. I’ve been waiting since Fair Warning. This might be my favorite sound in rock music.
Equipment + modification + musical idea + technique+ production = perfection.
My favorite element is technique. I agree with the discussion in that it’s the bounce of the stick and letting the drum sing that’s the key. It gives the drum “attack”.
Sounds to me like Alex’s snare was tuned a bit higher. There was more overtone ring coming through.
I think you're right.
was searching for a comment like this, cause he said the pitch was right. A great factor could also be that we here his drums soloed but alex's drums in context.
Agreed 100%.
that's exactly what i heard....and he was smacking it harder.
That’s what I heard, only very slightly though. A slight turn of each lug just to bring the pitch up a touch.
One of the most similar to John Bonham's snare drum sound. I would like to see "Recreating the Sound of Bonham", I know it is impossible, but it can be approached!
Rick already did that in detail.
Leopard Cup Pup Kryky: He did? I’ve seen a half-dozen vids that try to do it, but not Rick’s. Do you have the link handy?
I have a suggestion for another episode in the future, recreate Johnny Marr's guitar sound from How Soon is Now.
This would be awesome. Especially after reading about how they got that sound originally
Good call.
A New Chapter classic sound
I second this motion
I always thought he may have been inspired by Jimmy Page's riff from.. In The Light ...that sinister type of "dark" he projected there...offsetted by JPJ's "light " on his keyboard riff
Great video! Bill Bruford had the most recognizable snare sound in history for my money.
ah yes, what Edward actually referred when he talked about "Brown Sound"
Yes, yes yes! Even many diehard VH fans don't realize that Edward never, ever referred to his guitar tone as the "brown sound". He was talking about the "wooden" quality of his brother's snare sound. He said it sounded like he was hitting a log or something along those lines!
errbt 🙏👽♥️🤠🌈🧚🏿♀️🏄♂️✌️💖✨👽💧
Haha. Yup everyone always associated that term to Eddie's guitar when it was always about Alex's snare.
Recreate the Bill Bruford sound from early Yes, very distinctive and recognizable.
The true brown sounds come from gener&deaner
Although this re-creation is VERY interesting and remarkably close to the recording used for comparison, it is likely impossible to recreate Alex's (or any other drummer's) exact sound from any given recording. It is logical that every time Alex set up his drums (or someone set up his drums for him), there would be subtle but recognizable differences in the sound. As long as the basic sound structure being produced is similar and consistent from performance to performance, such subtle differences do not really matter. I learned a lot from this video!
If you pause the “Jump” video near the end, there is an aerial shot of his snare with the Al-luminati symbol nearly clearly visible.
You can also see it for a moment at 2.02 :-)
The Mighty 'V' 3:46 also
@@michaelhicks5150 - Ahh, yes! I hadn't noticed because youtube's suggestions were blocking the view! And it looks like Alex had actually put the tape on top of the head, as opposed to underneath :-)
The Mighty 'V' it would also make more sense to tune the drum before applying the tape.
True, but maybe he didn't do it that way in the studio? Would love to see some photos of the drum setup for the 1984 sessions to see for certain. Either that or maybe Rick can do a follow up with the tape on the top and compare?
This is incredible Rick!! Please keep these going. You do this so
Meticulously and thoroughly! It is much appreciated.
Rest In Peace EVH
I had beers with Ted Templeman and he said....."actually, it was all done on the board mix, because Alex was allergic to gaff tape....". Rick, you NAILED it!
Tommy Nikon this contradicts everything I’ve ever heard about how Al got his snare sound, though. They say he heavily coated the underside of the batter head in tape? I’m not doubting you, or Ted, to be clear. Maybe this was later in his career that he did that?
Would love to see a recreation of "Lust for Life" Hunt Sales drum sound.
That'd be interesting to see, for sure.
Rick, Jack is burying the the stick as well, where it’s always sounded like Alex popped it but rested above the head, leaving that extra tone, a-la Bonham, no? The crack is there from the impact but the note isn’t singing because just like burying a beater in the kick, the note is choked from the stick.
Great job I agree super close . Brightness possibly on the rimshot is what’s needed .
Alex is also really laying into the eighth notes on the hi hat. That’s a big part of the feel as well.
That's interesting, I feel even the sticking on hihats as well as the relative volume matter. Sometimes of course one can even lay off hats on backbeats too.
We need Recreating the sound: Master of Puppets or And justice for all guitar tone
please
A lot of people on RUclips have been doing it, but mostly amp modlers, and plugins. Can I only think of 1 that did it with real amps.
It’s cool, but it’s been done. Maybe cooler if he got het to come try to recreate it
Absolutely NO REVERB.
It sounds like the only difference is you had a little more reverb, and ring. Not sure if VH used more deadening on the head, or noise gate setting. If there was a difference in EQ I couldn’t hear it. Sounds nice!
I thought the same thing. Sounds like VH uses a gate on the snare to roll it off quickly. Love this channel for the teaching and collaboration it creates.
@@johnlink1515 I also thought there must be a gate and/or more deadening. The decay time is too long.
I think seriously it was spot ON and great job !!!
For future episodes: Ty Tabor of King's X and the LAB Series amp tone era.
Jimi Hendrix: Voodoo Chile (the slow blues version on Electric Ladyland) and Who Knows from Band of Gypys.
I would love to see this series explore the drum sounds on Metallica's black album, or perhaps the oft-discussed kick drum sound from ...And Justice for All. Also the bass on Motorhead's Ace of Spades comes to mind. Great, unique new series!
Kenny Aronoff snare sound on Mellencamp’s Scarecrow album would be an interesting video 🥁
Thanks Rick!
I grew up in the 70's and 80's
And i am a drummer....i always was mesmerized by Vh especially Alexs sound and drums.....he had some what i would say were non typical drum fills that added some intrigue as well.
I'm really keen to know how you got that lovely kick sound too!
I've noticed over the years that drummer friends and I have different tones when we play the exact same drum. This makes me believe that Alex is the missing ingredient in all of this.
One pulls the sound from the drum.
Same
I remember a rehearsal of DKV Trio, the drummer who borrowed the his kit for the gig was sitting next to me and listening to Hamid Drake playing his kit. He said "fu#$, this sound so good, it thought something is wrong with my drums, it's me who is the wrong component of the kit". Full respect to Rick's colleague drummer (sorry, my bad, I don't remember his name now!), but yeah, the drummer makes a difference ;-)
Rhythm in Bloom great theory, but his sound is soooo unique, it’s more than how the snare is hit. There’s more. We just don’t know what.
I've how he's doing it. Cause I'm a dummer and like content. But I think its wrong. Or just not right. Ya know what I mean
Here's a remarkable guitar sound you can attempt: Alex Lifeson's *ENORMOUS* tone on the studio version of "The Camera Eye," most notably when the song explodes at 1:32, and those fretted/open string (or at least that's what I suspect; I've never tried to learn it) ornaments at 1:51 - 1:54. They sound like pure electricity!!!!
Alternatively: David Gilmour's ***EVEN MORE GIGANTIC*** guitar tone on the *original* (NOT the recent remix, of which I'm not a fan) "Sorrow." I read that the original recording was pumped into an empty football stadium, and the subsequent sound mixed in with the original, so it would be a really great challenge. Given the spatial algorithms available now, it's probably not too outlandish a goal to recreate it.
+1 to this, can't go wrong with Lifeson or Gilmour, awesome sounds. I'm still holding out hope that Rick gets to interview Alex someday.
@@RCAvhstape - I'd love to see him chat with Alex and also recreate the 'Camera Eye' guitar sound, and the bass one too, while he's at it :-))
@John Grunwell - I love the 2nd "ornament" in particular; Nice harmonies :-)
I have to admit, though: I reckon Alex's tone in the solo is rather underwhelming, especially compared to all his other parts, and I'm always being 'distracted' by that awesome bass-playing and sound that's happening at the same time :-)
@@mightyV444 Geddy's Rickenbacker bass tone in those days was amazing, it had a kind of chime and grumble to it that he has never topped. I really wished he had used that bass and rig on Clockwork Angels.
On first blush the first thing I would try is cranking head and possibly snare tension a little. It's always amazed me how guys can make the same drum sound different too.
Recreating The Sound next episode? Guitar in "How Soon Is Now" by The Smiths. I know that other people have done it but I would love to see Rick's take on it.
DadCan InJapan I’m waiting for that. More Smiths, Les Zeppelin!
I think you've got the right snare sound here but Jack's high hat was closed. Alex tends to play with a tad more open hi-hat, so what we hear with AVH is snare with hi-hat ringing instead of just the snare. That's what's missing for me in this attempt.
I agree, also Jack is slightly accenting his hi hat hits, with less volume on the &’s . Alex is driving each 8th note evenly.
I noticed that as well, it changes the dynamics and let the snare ringing as Rick said - also it seems AVH's tail of the snare comes mainly from ambience enhanced by compression rather than reverb - my 2c
Love it!! I put duct tape on my snare in jr high in the late 70's trying to copy Alex! I thought he put on the top outside of the head. There is no copying Alex!
Alex did put the gaffer tape on the top. Rick is wrong in this video. If you Google Alex Van Haley’s snare, you will find at least 4 different times he had put lots of gaffer tape on the top of the batter head.
It makes no sense in putting an insane amount of tape on the underside of a head, then putting it on the shell, then attempt tuning. Adjusting the amount of muffling after the head is tuned is impossible unless the real head is off. This method is ridiculous when you stop to think about it.
Also, putting tape on an unmounted unstretched head is going to make the head hard to stretch evenly and in turn making it difficult to tune (and stay in tune as the tape’s adhesive battle against the stretching of the head).
Hi Rick, I'm a guitar guy by trade but having listened to the A - B, I believe taking off some tape and maybe tune up the head up ever so slightly you might be spot on. Alex's snare definitely has a certain "attack" but tuning up slightly and removing a strip of tape may give it more "pop" (lightly brighter - punch) to emulate Alex's snare tone. Great work as always, keep the videos coming!
Recreate Tony Thompson’s drumming on Power Station’s “ Some Like it Hot”.
a ton of gate reverb & some studio magic here, what I read Tony was a super loud player. Recreating to sounds as close as possible is pretty.
Roger Taylor did the timbale fills on the song.
@@skyreadersociety6183 REALLY loud....so much so, that he requested a bucket of ice be set up behind him to swap out 2 sets of headphones (as told to me by the engineer who witnessed him at the studio when I tracked there back in the early 90s). His head was steaming after each take.
Man I just watched a behind the scene Power Station video here. Imma gonna find it for you, it shows TT in the studio
The drumming itself can be recreated. It’s the underrated production by Bernard Edwards that is worthy of a tutorial.
How about recreating Neil Peart’ Tom sound from the 80’s and 90’s. Really high pitched toms that have great definition. Listen to Exit Stage Left of A Show of Hands. I’d love to have a kit that sounds like his Rosewood Tama kit or his first Ludwig kit.
His first kits were actually Slingerlands. Then Tama in the early 80's. He used Ludwig first on the Hold Your Fire album.
The Tama Super Star kit was made of birch.
@@erikkroll2154 - You mean the red one? It also had a thin acrylic layer inside the shells. His previous Tama kit (as seen in the 'Exit...Stage Left' clips) does indeed look like it's made of rosewood :-)
@K Schaaf - I was listening to 'Subdivisions' only the other day and was in awe again of the amazing drum sound! 😀 Neil's kit sounds best on that 'Signals' album, I reckon; Love the intro fill in 'Digital Man' in particular 🙂
@@mightyV444 rosewood was the name of the color. The wood used to make the shells was birch.
Rick the Master... I would recommend Recreating the Sound of: Geddy Lee bass sound on Moving Pictures. Winner winner chicken dinner?!
How can I hit like on this comment about a thousand more times?
I just said Les Claypool, but, yeah, I'd go for some Geddy Lee tone!
+1 for Geddy tone!
Even better, Geddy's Ric live tone on, say, Exit Stage Left, or his studio tone on Circumstances. Legendary bass sound, wish he had never quit using that bass. Let me also add the tone from Countdown, the last Rush studio track to feature Geddy's Rickenbacker, and a glorious tone it is.
I suggested "YYZ" LOL
Van Halen was a pepperoni pizza: the best type of food, and the best type of pizza. Simple but perfect. One tends to see the pepperonis as the star of the show, and for good reason, but none of it would be any good if the rest of it wasn’t just as perfect. Whether we know it or not, Alex’s drums are like that perfect crust that’s so good, you don’t think about it, but if it was any different it would suck. His snare sound contributed so much to the overall product. I’m glad to see you’re giving it center stage for this video. Here’s another Alex-thing that is easy to overlook though, one that’s just as important to the sound: his hi-hat sound. Most hi-hats makes a “tsssss” sound. His just hiss like a snake - just a “ssssss”. Especially on “I’ll wait”. Eddie used to talk about how when somebody would pick up his guitar and try to play like him through his setup, it sounded completely different. Im inclined to believe that the the same goes for Alex. He could probably have a seat at a Hello Kitty drum set and sound like Alex Van Halen.