HM, how do you feel about charging for a detailed estimate? I'm getting sick of people either not replying to my detailed estimates or hiring their son to do the work now that they know what's needed. Frankly, it's starting to piss me off and I'm thinking I will give them a one line price, and detailed price for a charge of $500. What are your thoughts on this?
Those full estimate breakdown types I have run across are the same ones that say "You're making $75 or $100 an hour and that's double what I get paid" I tell them they should have dropped out in 10 th grade and went into construction like me haha.
I don’t take those customers. I live in a very upscale suburb and find if someone is a pain about little things they’re going to be nickel and dime-ing me on everything. I started my handyman business a year ago in large part due to your channel. I have more work than i can handle. Partly because i only work 3 days a week. I take bigger jobs with my brother to help me. Hard work but this has been one of the best things I’ve done in my life.
For residential home estimates, I rely upon my work experience and understanding of the market prices of such materials that I will need. Never will I use shoddy materials to do residential electrical work because of strict safety regulations I have to follow. Since I am self-employed, I am careful not to take on projects that are too big (I.e.: doing work on a ten bedroom mansion) nor am I willing to deal with customers who are too cheap or I have a bad feeling about their intentions. For a typical customer, I will come over to inspect whatever they want me to do and then give a rough estimate afterwards. I will charge them a fee for the electrical inspection, give a rough estimate and then give them a final estimate (with some details) to sign off before I start the work. If a customer calls me for the wrong things, I will charge them extra fees for coming over and giving professional advice to them. For example, recently I had a customer call me over for work to be done in her basement. She did not specify anything until I got there and saw the issue first hand. Electricians do not work with custom built water pumps because we do not have the mechanical tools and expertise to deal with water pumps. She was supposed to call in a Millwright to fix or replace that old water pump in her basement. So at the end, she thanked me for the advice and recommendations, and I charged her a fee of $75 just for coming to her home and taking 10 minutes of my time to explain the situation to her.
I try to never breakdown my total number. It turns into a race to the bottom, if you do. Like a game of Jenga, removing one piece can make the structure collapse. You can remove a task, like tile or HVAC, but if you do, leave your admin costs in place. The more competent you are, the less you should break things down. Next!
I just had this happen to me last week on a big estimate. The client has a designer that is giving many many suggestions for her vacation rental condo. We're floating walls flat, taking out deco bands, adding floating shelves and on and on. It's a bunch of really time consuming and hard to do tasks. I bid the job higher than normal because I know it will be a total pain in the a$$, upstairs unit with small stairs and parking is a nightmare. She came back with asking for an itemized bid. I thought about it for a couple days then responded by saying I can do that but I charge for my time to break it down which would be 4-6 hours. She came back with wanting an explanation for the floating of the drywall to a flat finish and approved my estimate. I don't break down my estimates so clients can delete items they may find too expensive or argue with me about costs. It has worked for me over the years and maybe every market is different. But if a client is asking me right away to itemize and trying to tell me what it will cost then I don't want that job anyway. my 2 cents
5 years ago i quit being a handyman and retired, i am now 70, i gained 100 pounds and can bearly move around. since i have been watching your show i have made up my mind to lose weight and get off my lazy ass and get back to work. your show has inspired me to get back in the game. i actually miss working as a handyman. please keep doing your show , it is very inspiring to people like myself. good job mr. handyman. you can never run out of reasons to pick up a tool.
I walk away from those customers. Anyone who wants a detailed estimate is usually cheap af and a huge pita! I've done it once before and it took up a lot of my time and that customer didn't proceed with the project. I learned early on to walk away.... Thanks for another great video 👍
I agree 100% my friend. After hundreds of sales calls that brought me pita's, I learned to read people very well and you are right. Once I started getting more leads than I needed I was able to pick and choose and found I was happiest and most profitable when I took about 30% or less of the people who called.
I generally give everyone a price range rather than a one number quote, and ask for their budget for the job they want done so that way we’re both working with realistic numbers. Always explain the range is due to the unknowns that you can’t see, and gives us both room to add materials if needed. My bracketing for prices has treated me nicely and a lot less stress not worrying about going over the one quoted price, plus allows for much better profit margins. Just making sure I’m honest and thorough up front usually saves me from having to give detailed quotes. If I get questioned once on pricing I usually won’t take the job because they will nickel and dime me until the end
Ive had some customers that get stressed out when you give them too many details. They just want to know the bottom line and when you can start. Then others want to nit pick and haggle every line item. It’s honestly been the most challenging part of the job for me.
@@nolanclark2253 you don’t typically know you have a knit picker until the very end when they ask you to present all your receipts or an invoice with things itemized (I usually refuse to do anything but show that the quantity used was accurate because I bake the time gathering material into the material price at the end and it’s just not worth explaining to people because they never get it)
HAHAHAHA I just went through this with a lady who works for a "construction company" she does data entry for a company that does off-shore wind turbines and somehow that qualified her to tell me how I should do my job. I do remodeling and I don't break down estimates. I give my price and detailed description of what they can expect for that price. She flipped and told me off. 2 weeks later she called me and let me know that she clicked accept on my estimate. I told her that the relationship has been soured and would rather not do any work for her.
Exactly! I've started telling people that want a "detailed" estimate, or ones that I can tell are tire kickers, I charge a non-refundable fee for quotes.
Last summer I had a lady ask for a detailed invoice after the day was done. She knew the price beforehand, yet claimed she didn't. (She didn't sign a contract, mistake #1) Anyway, after learning how much I was making she told me that she had a crew of guys come in and drywall her bathroom for less than what I was charging ($400) to repair multiple small things that took about 7 hours out of my day. I was actually screwing myself over by only charging $400. Well long story short she decided to refuse to pay me full price and I had to eat it since we didn't have a contract. But nowadays I just attach pics of my receipts to the invoice and explain the overhead, especially taxes, in depth. AND ALWAYS HAVE A FREAKING CONTRACT
Nearly all my business is word of mouth. Im currently in a neighborhood that before I can get done with a job the neighbor will come over and ask me to come look at their house when I get done. Im also lucky in the fact that I have several repeat customers that we are to the point they don’t ask a price anymore they just say tell me how much when you’re done. This biggest tip I got from you is this neighbor is mainly wealthy retired people and they just don’t want to be bothered with it. Take care of their problems and they pay very well so they can enjoy retirement. Thanks for all your advice and help.
Yes, specially if they get to keep the rest for the next job or future job it’s money in their pockets. The customer can request to keep the left overs, or you can give them the option. The customer always looses the argument anyway because the handyman always has the right answer, disposal, I don’t have room to store it etc, you will never know what the real truth is.
When dumps were refusing all pressure treated lumber I started telling customer they have "heritage lumber" it belongs to the property now the next owners or your kids can use it some day.
I usually skip jobs like that. Just not worth the effort and the customer is usually harder to work with if they want a quote like that. What do you think?
Thanks for taking on this subject! I personally under promise and over deliver, it brings smiles to customers real easily. I also give 2 estimates, 1 if the job turns out easy and 1 if everything goes wrong and there’s lots more involved. If everything goes wrong at the very least the customer was pre-warned and it’s less stress on them and not a complete surprise.
Down side is (depending on the customer personality) he/she will take more to heart the lower price an will try to tell you the blame is yours , your the professional when something is wrong and you will have to compromise your profits
It's $Xxxx to do the job and it's $0 not to do the job. My experience is that as soon as you start to break down things itemized, then that's when the tire kicking starts. And then they expect you to compromise on your price or they want to compare you to the other guy. Itemized estimates require extra time and that's not free. Better off weeding out those customers and moving on to the next
can tell them you'll charge them for a break down as that's extra time and effort, or charge them a flat rate for the break down like $100, you can say it'll go towards the deposit but it's not refundable.
@@MV-wb2cz yeah I've heard of people doing this. I'm fortunate that it's a rare case that people request this and honestly those people are the ones that are just looking for a way to knock me down in price. And it's just not worth the trouble
I work up my estimates line by line for my internal records in my database software, then provide a single line price detailing what the project entails to the customer. For my internal records I have every material, tax, delivery, material acquisition, design time, clean-up, milage, disposal fees, labor, etc for each step. I build in my profit by adding 15% to each of those lines. If the project is not all related, for instance, paint master bedroom, replace bathroom faucet, and new flooring in dining room, each of those 3 things will be a separate line. If there are unknowns, such as will I have to replace the drywall after removing paneling, will the subfloor under the toilet need to be replaced, I'll include the full cost of doing that in the estimate, then include a "contingency discount" line on the estimate that reduces the bottom line cost if those specific items do not need to be done.
I'm a painting contractor. When I encounter a difficult customer that wants everything listed, I judge how the future of our interactions will be to decide if I want to take the time to itemize anything. If I determine the customer will try my patience every day I am on the job, I don't invest any more time with that person. If they just want to know labor vs a lump materials cost, I will do that. Usually I just give a single number for the total cost of the project.
I work alone for the most part. I haven’t had anyone in the three years I been in business ask me to do a cost breakdown. I’m in north central Florida. I change $76 per hour, $96 for the 1st hour and 30% markup on all materials. I don’t advertise. It’s all word of mouth. I do what I say I’m going to do and I show up when I say I’m going to show up. I’m honest and I have integrity. Work and think this way and you’ll be a success.
I can see where this is coming from. I'm normally do most projects myself, but a couple years ago we were renovating our house to get it on the market after living in it for 15+ years. We were limited on time, and some of the work I just haven't done before. We hired a contractor to do some window replacements, and also a contractor to renovate the bathroom since we only had 1 and downtime wasn't an option if I did it myself. That being said, the contractor was horrible. Not only did he mislead me on the timeframe to get things completed by almost double, he went with the cheapest items he could, but charged 6X the amount he was getting them for and didn't install what was asked for and had to redo it. Example, the valves on the existing sink were seized and since we were putting in a new vanity, I wanted the valves changed out. It was written in their quote to have a plumber there to solder on new valves and specifically said no shark bite type fittings. Well, when they changed the vanity, there was no plumber, and the guy used shark bites. When I asked about it, they said a plumber wasn't in the scope and he didn't want to solder new fittings on. Luckily, I had that specific line item in writing and they fixed the issue, but there were several more instances where they took the absolute cheapest way out of things and cut corners that should not have been cut and wanted more money to do it they way I asked them to do things from the beginning. I can absolutely see why people would want a detailed bid with contractors like that out there.
I got burned by doing this. Sent their neighbor to get materials I wrote up for them. He screwed up the job and they couldn't figure out why I wouldn't help them out. I didn't explain...I just told them to figure it out themselves. Lesson learned.
I’m all word of mouth as well no apps. I used to break things down for customers. That led to nothing but pain in the butt customers. Prices for materials changed so much last year that I only quote labor now sometimes. And add materials at the end. If they ask for breakdown now I say $5,000 to do the job $0 to not do the job. Love your channel. Everything makes sense 👍🏼
I usually explain my price if someone asks nicely just like you've done. If they don't like the profit or wage I'm going to make. I usually won't bother explaining my overhead costs or the fact that they are paying for experience ect. Chances are that isn't my customer and I move on.
I've only been self employed since last June. I'm from CT. I do all residential as a general contractor in home improvement. Most of my customers do not ask for a detailed estimate. All they care about is the final price. but when they do ask how much the labor cost is, I tell honestly tell them and the reasons why. In my area I have to charge $100-$150 an hour or i'm not making any money.
In the past four weeks I have spent many hours preparing highly detailed estimates and every single one of them decided to go elsewhere. That's their prerogative of course, but I've decided to stop giving them a detailed breakout of the costs. Yes, they can see the bottom line, but I'm not doing all this work for them for free anymore!!
That's all it really is. You're finding them the prices of everything, and pricing your labor. They're gonna get the same from another, and whoever ends up cheaper is the one they chose.
I also usually give a price. For example, it’s $5000 to do the job, $0 to not do it. My estimates are usually free, but if you want an itemized estimate, there will be a charge for my time for that, and most people agree and understand
I actually put a watermark on my initial estimate (using Wondershare) so at least there may be some shame if they want to show it to another contractor to beat.
I have several repeat customers that don't ask for an estimate, they just want me to do the work and bill them... Those are the best customers to have. Other customers want an estimates. I give line items for each job I'll perform like "replace exhaust fan & add new duct for exhaust to outside: $600.00 ". I have a supplies section on my estimate to describe the materials I'll be using to let them know why its so expensive like stainless steel 3" deck screws, Azek siding trim, or Grey Sherwin Williams interior satin paint. That way if they want to take something off the list its already clear how much that will reduce the cost. and if they want to change materials its clear that it will adjust the materials cost. Then I have a total labor cost & a total supplies cost and a grand total. I make sure to add terms such as full Materials cost due before work begins if its a large project, & full payment due at completion of work.
Estimator for custom home builder in the Southeast projects ranging from 800k-5M - if I am given a preliminary set of plans I go through and use all of my historic data for some of the material estimates in the interest of time. I have been able to get within 5% of the true cost of the project about 90% of the time doing this. If I am asked for a full itemized estimate at the preliminary stage there are 2 things that I say: 1- I say "why do you need my full priceout at this phase of the project when the plans aren't developed? I don't give out this information so you can pass along to someone else as this estimate and it's templated information is proprietary to my company" or 2- "if you are willing to pay 1% of this estimate as a part of a construction agreement, I will be happy to share all of the information you request as the plans are developed further and will assist in finding cost saving alternatives if that is what you are looking for"
I never give a breakdown on a bid. I'm not the best at bids and you give a lot of solid advice. The most I'm willing to break it down is to separate labor from materials. Anything other than that and you can take it or leave it....cuz every time I've ever broken my bid down they handed it to another contractor and asked them 'can you beat these numbers?' So I choose to not give them the info to low-ball me....because I've also had these same people call me later to try and come and fix the work of the other contractor they gave my bid to beat. He starts it, he can finish it.
It's can be difficult to explain this to a new independent contractor. I always tell them to give a fair quote, and move on. The customer will call you when they can't find anyone that can do better work for lower cost. Don't adjust your standards just to get one fussy customer.
This. Learned myself the hard way when I started... trying to get jobs I bent over backwards and regardless of that they were still demanding to the very end. It was too much stress. The more leash you give the harder they pull. If they don't like the bid, smile, say OK! and move on.
I know how many days a job will take me. I charge so much a day for my labor. My day starts when I pull up to the store about 6/7am. I never mark up materials but I have leftovers in my shop from other jobs. I never charge a customer more than estimated but do charge less sometimes. I never ever give detailed estimates except time of start estimated time to complete, 50% money upfront, when the balance is due etc. I've never had a problem usually always finish early and I never hire help. I'd never waste my time doing detailed estimates of materials. Its just not necessary...too many other customers who need help. My customers have always been happy. I feel so blessed to be a business owner, keeping my own time and making people happy. Its a good life.
I do a detailed estimate for myself and that’s what is used to give a quote to the customer but I don’t give them a line item breakdown. For items that they need to pick out I give an allowance cost in the estimate that I give them but that’s it. If they want a detailed invoice then I tell them it will be done as an hourly rate job and I’ll detail everything and it’s on their time.
I have owned a single guy custom cabinet shop for over 20 years and totally agree with all the points made. In my experience be very careful with breaking a job down to that level. It gives the wrong type of client the tools to gut your quotation of any profit and leave you with endless re-quotes removing more and more profit and more paperwork. Be especially careful if like myself you are supplying trade only materials not available to the general public as this will come back to haunt you in the future when it's word of mouth work. Personally I always supply a full written fixed price quotation with a specification of works but never a cost breakdown.
By trade only materials what are you referring to? I'm looking to start a similar business but the supply side is what I'm having trouble with understanding. Is there a special place where you get your wood, glue, etc?
Aint nobody got time for a line by line unless it's a big job, otherwise not worth the time. This is the price, if you want the work great, if not there's plenty of people who can't even find someone decent to work right now
Just recently had a potential client do this. We went and looked at 4 properties (didn’t charge her), she and the realtor picked my brain, we chose one and made an extensive list of improvements. Then she countered back wanting to take items out and get an itemized before she decided on the property. If she wants to pay for my time to write out how many pieces of sheet rock, tape, hours, etc. happy to but this “free estimation” shit is getting old and the number I’m giving for free is the number you get unless you pay for more detail.
I do estimates based on price of the job. Under $500.00 I do a virtual estimate and say "we'll estimate it when we get there before we start." $500 to $15,000 I show up and spend an hour on site and deliver a free estimate. Over $15,000 I bill my base hourly rate for every hour of review/design/permitting etc. That's my default for residential and light commercial clients.
What I do it to tell the client they have to pay for the estimate and if they take the job the estimate get credited to them Bec cause I would have had to do the breakdown anyway, a lot of my work is time and materials - the competitive bidding process burns up a lot of time - small 2-3 day job are the best for me
You can group items together .... like .... "Materials" (list the materials) and add 25%(wiggle room) to what you estimate it'll actually cost. "Labour" through in "sourcing materials" and add %25 (wiggle room) to what you want to be making in case something unexpected comes up. I don't mind throwing all the key words in an estimate and make it clear to the customer that unexpected problems may come up and it WILL cost more. how do you have such a nice head of hair handyman?
If I'm having to do a line item estimate then I didn't do a good job building rapport and building trust. If a customer is a type that they want line items so they can argue, question, and try to negotiate each item they won't like the line I add "difficult customer fee"
A coworker of mine was having a house built. The builder gave her a detailed list of items like how much a light will cost, faucet price and install cost. She was on the phone at work arguing with the poor guy on why he was charging x for something when she found it cheaper at x place. 😂 Na, I am good. No thanks, I’ll move on to the next job.
Yup! They see a door slab at Home Depot for $30 and wonder why my estimate averages $150/door installed. It's because the door with custom bore/hinge prep. from a door co. costs way more. (I could do it myself, but would cost even more)
Exactly, they expect you to charge the same price as lowes... it's like I have to go.buy this light fixture from lowes for $30 and then also install it for the same price I bought It for? People don't think things through.
The best practice I have found is to give 1 round number for the project. This has significantly reduced the amount of times I have had customers ask to break everything down. Part of this is also due to building an online presence. Building up your reviews so that customers know if they can trust you or not. Google my business is huge and needs to be leveraged. The only time I really break anything down is when insurance is involved and the customer needs these documents for their claim. Even then, I’m vanguarding and letting the customer know that insurance doesn’t like to pay what it takes to get the project done. These are good tips, but I would work on knowing your numbers and establishing trust through online reviews, then, you focus marketing to your target customer base and you eliminate a lot of these problems.
Those people that want everything written down like that or not my customer you a detailed bill at the end of the job I am not going to spend the time for free to write down an estimate like that unless you were paying me my and $125 an hour like a service call besides that all my jobs are time and and materials it saves me a lot of time doing it that way with all the tire kickers out here I do not do bids or estimates or quotes the customer paid for the material but I go get it and pick how I normally work it is they do credit card over the phone at the supply house and then they pay my labor at the end of the job my typical hourly rate is 125 for the first hour an 85 for every hour after that and I stay busy or than I want to be for sure
Mr. Handyman, I love this video and have been awaiting it with anticipation. Thank you very much. I sincerely appreciate your approach and will take it to heart. Also love the discussion you provoked and to learn how others in the business are dealing with "crazy" customers and how they handle them.
I don't really do remodels or anything like that. They just end up being a quagmire and it's faster going from little job to little job. Cash daily vs cash later is nice too.
I much prefer remodels over quick little jobs. I end up losing money on quick little jobs because I'm not good at scheduling them such that I work enough. I like a nice 4-6 week gig. That's my sweet spot. Steady work. Get paid. take a few days off while transitioning into the next job. I need to get better at doing those quick jobs though. It's all about "me" calling costomers and scheduling. I have trouble with that. Can't really tell someone I can be at their house a week from today at a certain time. Inevitably something comes up I didn't anticipate and I end up on a job a day longer or whatever.
@blackdog productions Yeah I typically try and keep the schedule full for a week or 2 weeks out. I'm not a good "builder" as much as I am a great "fixer". It allows me to run solo with no worries about meeting deadlines. I owned an ISP before this and had 15 employees. All I learned is how evil people really are and thus being a solo handyman makes me happy. Especially when people say "you're the man" after fixing something for them. It brightens my day a lot.
@@MichaelJohnson- solo is the best, i've been with the same customer for almost 2 years of every day work if I wanted, apartment after apartment finishing, they buy a new place, gut it, then i come in and finish it, move onto the next one. Only issue I have currently is being able to make more money because they expect me to charge a similar price for each one and i started as $ and now i'm opening a legit business so i dunno what i'm going to do in the near future lol.
@M V You should at least try and explain why you will need to charge more going forward (inflation is a real thing). People pay for trust more than skill in those types of environments tbh.
I usually have rough item pricing for things. $10/little items. $20/medium items. $35/odd items. $50/bigger items. This includes my markup and travel time for the pieces in-between and allows me to count it out really fast. If anyone asks for a break down I give them that explanation and let em count them out themselves.
I grew up surrounded by people who lived through "The Great Depression". Their sense of value was always pretty far off, the most common one I'd hear would be at a restaurant; "They want 25 cents for a piece of cheese", I had a great conversation with my Mother in Law right after she said that. "You aren't buying a piece of cheese, how much electricity does it take to refrigerate that piece of cheese?", ever cut yourself in the kitchen, that happens at every restaurant. You need insurance, you need a first aid kit, you need someone onsite that understands labor laws (if you have employees). You have to pay the extended costs of any business. If you roll to a job in a nicely branded shirt and hat, those cost money. Gotta maintain tools and vehicles. Nothing is free.
I one hundred percent disagree with you, the customer starts out by doing this ‘I don’t trust you, and I’m better than you’ these kind of people can do there own job in my opinion. Have had very successful business for 30 yrs, based upon trust and keeping my word. Trust is king, both ways.
If it's your first interaction with the customer it pays to kindly humor their quote request because they probably know nothing about you & they're just being cautious - it's not personal, agree. If you get the job & all works out nicely (no added surprises) they'll likely confidently recommend you to others, no problem. (We have a lot of bar-fly shiesters & hustlers where we live who prey on retirees & HmB has talked about this conflict. How frustrating it can be for honest contractors because older people tend to ask lots of questions & be nit-picky or request clear detailed quotes. (And admittedly, also be unrealistically frugal.) It's because many "contractors" will briefly start the project with the customer's deposit money then disappear, leaving an unfinished mess behind. Sometimes because they honestly underestimated the project cost & need more money than expected to continue. But too often because they're just sleazy opportunists. It's why many homeowners resort to tackling projects themselves, if they can manage it, rather than risk letting potential creeps into their homes & being taken.)
One problem I find after having done this for 6 years for a living is that, even in a fairly affluent area, when you advertise as a "handyman' people are expecting a bargain. You generally don't get the respect of a general contractor or electrician or plumber. They are looking for a deal and if you charge what your time is worth, many (or even the majority) will bail. And then of course the irony is that they are more likely to complain about the work. They equate you to some guy walking around mindlessly waving a blower. I've walked on quite a few jobs where the customer was being unreasonable. I might be out a day's pay but now it's on them to find someone who will do it as well as cheaply. No hard feelings I simply say "Good luck!"
I don't do breakdowns, it's like being asked to show my payslips, rude! Imagine asking the client to reveal their last three months earnings because you want to know they're able to settle up after the job? I get that some people just want to make sure they're not being ripped, but I'm just not wasting my time breaking down costs and revealing my earnings, that's my private affairs.
Spread sheet for yourself line itemized out materials labor markups etc Cust gets workorder with all work detailed out and one price at bottom The spreadsheets works as a task list for you and it should be same as workorder without prices nor materials
Exactly....ultimately all they care bout is the bottom line and the quality of work you do when comparing to others. Giving too much information leads to nit picking at the small pricing details.
I had a very simple policy, I did not do business with angry people. Overly aggressive customers were always Money losers. Some of them have their ego wrapped up in money and they are not happy if you make any money off of them.. even if it's from your labor and hard work
I Fire Difficult Clients. And of course I can do this because of WOMouth. MOST of the time I give all of my clients a estimate/guestimate to the range of labor costs and materials. If I don't do this then most of the time I get burned and I will most likely lose that client. Now for the ones that want an detailed estimate, I am happy to do that. More often than not I end up charging them more than folks I charge by the hour.
Worked with my father for 10 years in HVAC. If they asked for a detailed break down we told them they needed someone else. Never, ever advertised our business and never had a slow day. Word of mouth purely. Train your customers, payment is due upon completion not 30 days later, and we kept track of who referred someone on to us in case they didn't pay we would go back and say, "hey, why did person xyz you referred on to us not pay?" 10 years, only one person didn't pay, and it was such a small bill it wasn't worth the time in small claims court. But if you want to waste time doing a line item estimate, go for it, your choice and your time. Still doesnt mean you get the job though.
I refuse line items like this. When I was starting I might have done it, but I'm not quoting you the cost of each little thing. Customers like this are almost always a nightmare to deal with. I also don't work with customers who want to nickle and dime everything or claim "I can get it cheaper elsewhere", these are more red flags.
As soon as they ask for a full break out, that is no longer an estimate that is the bill. I got into an argument over cut off wood scraps and left over screws. "I paid for an eight foot 2x4, I get a eight foot 2x4, not a seven foot. . ." and "I paid for a pound of screws, I get a pound of screws." It's not like some custom mixed paint that's useless to everyone else. Collecting up the extras is what makes it possible to cut corners on odd jobs. I've run into other problems and I now have a line on my invoices: "Until paid in full, all materials remain the property of the contracted worker(s) whether consumed in the commission of the job or not. So long as the bill is unpaid, the contractor may enter the premises to nullify their labor and/or remove their property. After the client has paid the agreed upon final bill, and the contractor confirms it, the materials consumed in the commission of the job become the property of the client. Any remaining materials are the property of the contractor to use or dispose of as they choose." Haven't had any problems or unpaid jobs since.
I get the curve ball here. Where I live in the SFO bay area, there is a huge diversity of cultures and each one of them is different when it comes to home repair cost. So I have to strategize my estimates depending. Some give the persona to me as being a simple man, a laborer so they don't want to pay. Although I hold three college degrees! I have to inform them of this. Some cultures insist to remove shoes and wear masks before entering. I have to walk around in my socks when working these jobs. I may have to start refusing these jobs. I can't climb ladders in socks! Oh the stories I have to tell. Luckily I am working for a few property managers now and it's much better. Although I still have to remove my shoes with some tenants!
Not related to handyman type activities. Had a customer with phone and video conferencing problems. Vague in their description of how the issue manifests. That's ok, there are a ton of diagnostics that I can do and some of them take a bit of time. So I capture the data, do the research, come up with a playbook of configs. Then we spend two hours on the phone applying, validating, and then we wait for a big 120 person video meeting and it all works. Now mind you that this has been going on for about 6 months, multiple prior techs, and I solve it. They get the bill and are pissed off that there is more than the two hours that I spent on the phone with them. I calmly replied that this has been a lingering problem, that others failed to fix, and that not all billable time is spent client facing.
Some people can be difficult and understandably so nowadays. Been coming across more and more people who want everything but do not want to pay for it. Had a lady recently tell me she needed an estimate for a deckbuild. I provided one and she then asked how much I charge per hour. The back and forth really makes me think it is not worth pursuing. Tired of people who do not value my time, I would never waste it, nor theirs ever. After saying my estimate was too high and realizing my per hour was more than she thought she asked me to give her the original estimated price. I explained to her that I had taken on other work.
I worked at a restoration company for 20 years as a production manager and part of my job was to review estimates that salesman had prepared. When the estimate was for insurance companies, we used Xactimate software which have everything listed by line item. The number for us was a hard number and nonnegotiable and if they wanted to get it done cheaper, we would need to remove part of the work from the estimate.
I itemize, but keep it fairly vague. Materials, labor, O&P for GC jobs etc. Try to get more granular if it's being seen by an insurance company - I've had a few of those in the last couple of years. It totally depends on the job how I group things together, whether it's a new or established customer, small or larger job - with certain established clientele it could be just a guess and a handshake. Sometimes the "baseboards" line item will be described as material, install and finish and others I have all trim materials as a line item and all painting as another and so on. Try to keep it as broad as possible while breaking down a potentially five figure number somewhat to make it digestible. I saw a line item for "contents manipulation" in a competing bid once for a large company so now I always use that one. I like to incentivize people to move their shit out of the way and if I have to do it I know I'm at least making money.
I have a landscape construction company and I always break down estimates by tasks, ie demo and prep, dumping fees, patio installation etc, With those line items I ahve a full description of what we are going to do. Never usually have a problem. If someone wants more detail than that, they are often not going to be very easy to work with. Regarding unknowns, the best thing you can do is to have well worded contracts with contingencies for unforeseen circumstances. Also just communicate with the customer that things may change depending on what we find. I find that good communication goes a long way. My problem I have is normally is that a lot of customers communicate very poorly with me or their spouse and sometimes things get misconstrued in the process. There's always something. Its not easy but someone's gotta do it. lol
I lost a bid for a basement remodel. I was supposed to pick up where the last guy left off. I gave me my price and he said it was to much! Then said he would only think about it if it was half of what I quoted. I lost the job, but I gained knowledge. Cheap people don’t want to pay
I've learned not to bid on jobs started by someone else -- it's a potential sign that the client is hard to deal with and the last guy walked... or it was the client that started and realized it was too much for them and they want you to clean up their mess (while they look over your shoulder the whole job.)
If they want itemized list they're going to pay for the time it takes to do that. Also I will charge them more to do the job. Most of the time those type of people are very picky. If you charge more you don't feel as bad as you have to deal with a person being so picky.
I once had a guy tell that he knew a guy who would do the same work for literally half of what I bid. I told him good luck, and told him to keep my card in case he needed it. A few weeks later he called me to come and fix what his friend had done. I wound up making more on that job than I original estimated. As to detailed pricing, I do that on every job I do that is over $500, and I detail every nail and screw. I usually don't show that to the customer. I do that to protect myself. I can give it to the customer if they want it, but very seldom do I have to, and even then, when they see 150 or more line items and the tally, they usually skim it and never look at it again. By the way, once you do a couple of those, you have a template and it becomes easy and fairly quick to do.
I don't see how because I do timing with to the customer buy all materials they ain't sticking me with with that build the only thing I can possibly be out of his labor I go to home Depot Lowe's Carr plumbing supply Mississippi valley electric and the credit card over the phone I've been burned once on with you and I will never be again
This so much, a ton of comments about all the extra time to itemize things out... tells me they don't know what they are doing they are just winging it.
@@nickprafke6664 I'm a perfectly what I'm doing but I'm not going to spend the time at how much material fluctuate these day's and unavailability to write you out of itemized quote I might give you an automizer bill there's two different things
Like ya said. Word of mouth and customer service. I've had real customers. I break down in detail exactly what the process will look like at the very first meeting. I take detailed notes and pictures as we talk. Also explain the market climate. The difference in vendors. Difference in material. Details about what I think I'll find. What I could find. Try to leave them with a visual picture of worst case scenario and best case scenario. Alo explain that I bid for worst case scenario. Very last thing. I encourage them to get other bids. Only one time have I had to break my bid down.
I'm early in this handyman adventure and am pretty sure I prefer the non-itemized approach. I don't want to deal with entertaining hagglers and cheapskates. Fixed price, take it or leave it. And I'm still booked out for weeks. The reviews, references, and portfolio speak for themselves.
@@kevinclark5110 I'm new as well, how do you book your time out so far ahead and be remotely close in start dates of other customers 6 months in advance. That is my struggle.
@@nolanclark2253 One solid price. The same way McDonald's and Burger King give a solid price for their $20 hamburgers and we don't get to ask for an itemized breakdown and they get to charge those prices because people pay them, exact same concept.
I don't work with customers who want a breakdown of every expense. I do custom cabinetry full service, manufacturing to installation. Let's say I'm bidding two bath vanities, a kitchen and a laundry room....I have one price and its at the bottom of the page. Its not an al-a-cart menu...If you want to remove two bath vanities (or any other combination of deletions) then the prices of the other items go up. Can you go to McDonalds and or order a number 3 with a large fry but then delete the burger and drink thinking you will get the discounted French Fry price when lumped into the meal? NO. Before custom cabinets I was in the painting business. In the early days I would break down bids by room, pressure wash, materials cost etc. Constant nit picking from customers. "Well I can get cheaper paint" or "I will pressure wash it myself" or "Why does this bedroom cost so much more than this bedroom." It's best for me to not break it down and when people ask for the nickel and dime breakdown I politely tell them that that is not how I do business. Each business is a bit different though....If you are a GC and you are building a deck, painting the exterior of the house, and putting a roof on...sure separate the pricing on the three different scopes of work. But breaking down the footing cost for the posts, and the material cost for the roof...Nope. Very rarely do I have an issue with the way I price jobs because I go out of my way to provide a pleasant experience for my customers. My goal is to leave that project on a friendship level. I get customers by word of mouth and word of mouth only. Word of mouth customers are are ten steps above random's that call on ad's or find you on the web. They already have a friend or several who is/are thrilled with the work you did for them. Word of mouth customers legitimately have a bit of peer pressure to use you. Imagine a potential kitchen cabinet customer of mine that decides to go elsewhere and the other guy botches the job. Their friends will be forever be saying "should have used Jeremy!"
I don’t line item things, when you do that not only do you need to charge more for the additional time it took to do that but guaranteed you’ll end up answering and explaining a hundred questions about each line item as well as customers wanting to keep boxes of screws and such because “they paid for it” I go over the project with potential clients, give them my input and ideas, cone to a consensus on what the bid will entail and then I give them a price that includes all my labor and materials with my markups for profit and overhead costs etc. I tell them when I can start and when I will finish, and thats it. If they want to know how reasonable my price is they can get bids from other contractors and then see where I land and either accept my bid or don’t accept my bid. I work on a first come first serve basis and I only book people in my schedule after I get a signed contract and down payment. Been at it 7 years working for myself now and have never been without work.
With any job I am bidding on, I ALWAYS discuss unforseen hidden damages. I tell them that I can't see it now, so I'm not charging for it now; BUT if there is something found that must be replaced/fixed while doing the original scope of work, I will let them know right away. I back this up with the worst case scenario - replacing a huge picture window in a living room, after getting the old window out, found termite damage in the framing. Showed her told her that we had to keep removing until we found solid wood. We ended up literally taking down the entire wall on the front of her home! Drywall, electrical, framing, siding, oh and the window.
My estimates include a detailed break down of the material (type, not quantity) that will be used for each order. Everything fom wood to screws to glue to paint.....etc. I do not include a line item breakdown with pricing for several reasons. It is just not worth going back and forth with customers who's only goal is to nickle and dime you to death so that tney can save money. Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming them at all for wanting to know. In the past 5 years I've only had one customer request it before we started the estimate process. I wished him luck in finding someone, even recmmended another guy, and went on my way.
2019 changed things for me because I couldn't track the material increases. I went to 75$ hr including some drive time to offset gas. Often the customer opens their own lumber yard account that I can charge to. It's nice to not handle money that's not for me. I tell them light heartedly but serious you pay the bill on Friday, I come back on Monday. Our work has to speak for itself and quickly build confidence.
Great info. If they want to know what they're paying for you to do the job, I see no harm in presenting that. If they don't want to pay what you're worth then you don't want that customer. Sometimes you have to fire customers.
When I was an HVAC tech, I would write out the estimate for repairs after diagnosing the problem. I presented the client with all charges, even if I had to go into overhead and all of that. I wasn't the owner so the pricing wasn't set by me. Now that I'm doing my own thing, I take the same approach and give as much information as possible. I'm not trying to hide anything. I haven't had any problems yet.
@@zodiacdogkennels1006 as far as replacements, I include that in the profit margin. I stay up to date on pricing and keep it to between two brands, a good and than a better one. I can get pricing done in about 10mins.
Love the emphasis on customer service and and how it seems to be a rare commodity these days. It plays a much larger roll in my decision making process when it comes to hiring someone than it has in the past.
What I’ve been doing now with fairly good success is telling customers I will give them a ballpark budget within 10% of the job and I’ll add in a few of the details outside on a standard project as well. It’s been cutting down my time working on bids for people who aren’t serious or had not expected the “high” price. Then a guarantee my price won’t change when I do the full breakdown budget after. And for “unknown” items, I add a contingency to the invoice saying “in these scenarios we often see underlying issues such as…. so budget an additional 10% of the over all total to cover unforeseen issues. We will show and discuss the issues once they are discovered” Disclaimer, I prepare the customer in the initial meeting that this is exactly how I handle things so it’s never been an issue.
I charge for quotes. If they want more details- they pay more. The more detailed, the more expensive. I rarely am asked for more than category totals using this method. Most people that want itemized are cheap and want to compare my item prices with others. If they've already paid me to quote, they likely aren't going to price shop me and sink the cost of estimating.
I give pretty detailed invoices. Probably more in depth than is typical. I do not give detailed quoates. I'll do an estimate but I preface this with the fact that this price is an estimate. Not a quote. I just did one of these for a tile tub surround. I nailed it. I dislike having a figure out there though because it puts me under pressure to get things done which isn't the best for my mental state. I will be adding a lot of padding in the future to estimates. Think I'll take it as an opportunity to up my prices.
BOOKKEEPING is KEY. The estimate turns into the budget, turns into the invoice, then payment - and this all goes into the books together. Estimates can be created with apps that plug into bookkeeping software. Until I started using BK software it was a huge pain for me anytime a customer wanted a detailed invoice or even a basic receipt. Tax time and loans were a PITA early on and I'm sure a lot of people here have had the same experience. Love the videos.
I've seen customers demand their extra screws because they say they purchased them . Some customers are a pain. But it's all about you charging what you're worth and them deciding if they want to be cheap or fair Last year I quoted a job for a business and they didn't want to pay me $2,000 for 8 hours with $800 in materials ( I would have profited $1200) So they hired a plumbing company that used the same supplier and charged them $3000 in labor because it was $1500 for 2 guys each plus the $800 materials from the same guy I used. So their total became $3800 They wanted a estimate from me but didn't require one from them
As a tattoo artist, we don't break down our supplies cost. For me, it's just the hourly rate and I'm doing usually really big stuff that will take multiple sessions, so I don't even try to estimate the time. It costs what it costs, you want it?
If they haven’t signed a contract, which I do for every single job, (chatgpt writes them quick) then I give them a single number. If they want it detailed I will do it, but I won’t give it to them. I’ll show it and take it with me. I’m not going to give them the list of how to do the job for free. I tell them I’ll give it to them but I charge $40 an hour to write it out and they can buy it off of me. If they signed a contract, then I happily do it and give it to them because I’ve already factored it in.
@@user27278 type “write a legal contract for my construction company to do (job)” into the conversation bar. Then I copy and paste into a document and customize the generic stuff to the job. Max Maher just made a video explaining it on his YT channel.
I recently started a handyman business because I love doing this type of work and everyone tells me how much they need the help. Well apparently in my state I need a license for just about anything I do. I can’t replace a light fixture without an electricians license and I can’t replace a toilet without a plumber’s license. For a time when there is a shortage of skilled laborers and people wanting to do the work it is just crazy. Does anyone have any advice for this? I live in maine and have reached out to several maine handymen to see what they advise but have not heard back yet.
Aw naw….! I worked for a ‘Handyman company’ in which we had to give breakdown estimates. I quoted a job with customer supplied paint. My quote was like $900 labor plus $20 materials. Customer asked what materials. I said, roller covers and brushes etc. Customer lost his shit- ‘You don’t have brushes?’ and i didn’t get the job. Last time I broke down the estimate like that.
I've dealt with this with a specific investor(I mostly work for investors in my area). I break everything out and then add in a Documentation fee/Doc Fee just like a car dealership. The way I justified it to them because they absolutely said it was malarkey was that my standard estimates included a labor cost and description, and a materials cost and description. Neither broken out. If they wished for me to break down individual materials after the fact(meaning creating a second estimate practically speaking) that time would be billed regardless of the acceptance of the estimate. Where I'm at I have a minimum billable charge of $100 (I use this at my discretion however it is posted on my invoices.) . So that's what they'd get billed.
I won’t do biz with people that want minute details about everything. Just means I’ll have to go back and forth trying to micro manage the relationship, and I don’t want no part in that!
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HM, how do you feel about charging for a detailed estimate? I'm getting sick of people either not replying to my detailed estimates or hiring their son to do the work now that they know what's needed. Frankly, it's starting to piss me off and I'm thinking I will give them a one line price, and detailed price for a charge of $500. What are your thoughts on this?
Those full estimate breakdown types I have run across are the same ones that say "You're making $75 or $100 an hour and that's double what I get paid" I tell them they should have dropped out in 10 th grade and went into construction like me haha.
That's pretty good! I love it.
Great response 😂
Lol Great advice, I'm using that!
And they don't realize they're hiring a business not a day laborer.
@@motherfudger6664 Spot on! I will keep this in mind when someone challenges my pricing and tries to break even my fixed price jobs into hourly rates.
15k to do it, $0 to not do it lol
This.
@@motherfudger6664 I ironic enough learned it from the hand_e_man himself during covid lol
I don’t take those customers. I live in a very upscale suburb and find if someone is a pain about little things they’re going to be nickel and dime-ing me on everything. I started my handyman business a year ago in large part due to your channel. I have more work than i can handle. Partly because i only work 3 days a week. I take bigger jobs with my brother to help me. Hard work but this has been one of the best things I’ve done in my life.
For residential home estimates, I rely upon my work experience and understanding of the market prices of such materials that I will need. Never will I use shoddy materials to do residential electrical work because of strict safety regulations I have to follow.
Since I am self-employed, I am careful not to take on projects that are too big (I.e.: doing work on a ten bedroom mansion) nor am I willing to deal with customers who are too cheap or I have a bad feeling about their intentions.
For a typical customer, I will come over to inspect whatever they want me to do and then give a rough estimate afterwards. I will charge them a fee for the electrical inspection, give a rough estimate and then give them a final estimate (with some details) to sign off before I start the work.
If a customer calls me for the wrong things, I will charge them extra fees for coming over and giving professional advice to them. For example, recently I had a customer call me over for work to be done in her basement. She did not specify anything until I got there and saw the issue first hand. Electricians do not work with custom built water pumps because we do not have the mechanical tools and expertise to deal with water pumps. She was supposed to call in a Millwright to fix or replace that old water pump in her basement. So at the end, she thanked me for the advice and recommendations, and I charged her a fee of $75 just for coming to her home and taking 10 minutes of my time to explain the situation to her.
I try to never breakdown my total number. It turns into a race to the bottom, if you do. Like a game of Jenga, removing one piece can make the structure collapse. You can remove a task, like tile or HVAC, but if you do, leave your admin costs in place. The more competent you are, the less you should break things down. Next!
I just had this happen to me last week on a big estimate. The client has a designer that is giving many many suggestions for her vacation rental condo. We're floating walls flat, taking out deco bands, adding floating shelves and on and on. It's a bunch of really time consuming and hard to do tasks. I bid the job higher than normal because I know it will be a total pain in the a$$, upstairs unit with small stairs and parking is a nightmare. She came back with asking for an itemized bid. I thought about it for a couple days then responded by saying I can do that but I charge for my time to break it down which would be 4-6 hours. She came back with wanting an explanation for the floating of the drywall to a flat finish and approved my estimate. I don't break down my estimates so clients can delete items they may find too expensive or argue with me about costs. It has worked for me over the years and maybe every market is different. But if a client is asking me right away to itemize and trying to tell me what it will cost then I don't want that job anyway. my 2 cents
5 years ago i quit being a handyman and retired, i am now 70, i gained 100 pounds and can bearly move around. since i have been watching your show i have made up my mind to lose weight and get off my lazy ass and get back to work. your show has inspired me to get back in the game. i actually miss working as a handyman. please keep doing your show , it is very inspiring to people like myself.
good job mr. handyman. you can never run out of reasons to pick up a tool.
Thanks or taking the time to comment. It means a lot hearing form guy that watch my videos.
Good for you !! I “retired “, hated it ! 74 years old, still working and enjoying it !!
It $5000 to do the job, it’s $0 to not do the job. There’s my estimate.
why did you retire in the first place?
I walk away from those customers. Anyone who wants a detailed estimate is usually cheap af and a huge pita! I've done it once before and it took up a lot of my time and that customer didn't proceed with the project. I learned early on to walk away.... Thanks for another great video 👍
I agree 100% my friend. After hundreds of sales calls that brought me pita's, I learned to read people very well and you are right. Once I started getting more leads than I needed I was able to pick and choose and found I was happiest and most profitable when I took about 30% or less of the people who called.
Yep, they are always the ones to be a headache
If they buy the material it's always missing something....or wrong stuff
More than likely when a customer asks for a detailed estimate, they are going to shop your prices and you did all the " leg work " for them.
Since no one provids detailed quotes anymore I just get 150 quotes now instead keep that in mind :)
@@jrizzle7926 I hadn't thought of this.
I use detailed estimates internally, but give one price with scope, exclusions, change orders etc.
I generally give everyone a price range rather than a one number quote, and ask for their budget for the job they want done so that way we’re both working with realistic numbers. Always explain the range is due to the unknowns that you can’t see, and gives us both room to add materials if needed. My bracketing for prices has treated me nicely and a lot less stress not worrying about going over the one quoted price, plus allows for much better profit margins. Just making sure I’m honest and thorough up front usually saves me from having to give detailed quotes. If I get questioned once on pricing I usually won’t take the job because they will nickel and dime me until the end
Ive had some customers that get stressed out when you give them too many details. They just want to know the bottom line and when you can start. Then others want to nit pick and haggle every line item. It’s honestly been the most challenging part of the job for me.
This ☝️
isn't it easier to just drop or refer the nit pickers to other contractors and deal with the bottom liners?
Or why not have them pay for a detailed estimate upfront?
@@nolanclark2253 you don’t typically know you have a knit picker until the very end when they ask you to present all your receipts or an invoice with things itemized (I usually refuse to do anything but show that the quantity used was accurate because I bake the time gathering material into the material price at the end and it’s just not worth explaining to people because they never get it)
I agree brother. Many don't want to be overloaded but details are paramount so some jobs should be detailed..... others may be less and be ok
HAHAHAHA I just went through this with a lady who works for a "construction company" she does data entry for a company that does off-shore wind turbines and somehow that qualified her to tell me how I should do my job. I do remodeling and I don't break down estimates. I give my price and detailed description of what they can expect for that price. She flipped and told me off. 2 weeks later she called me and let me know that she clicked accept on my estimate. I told her that the relationship has been soured and would rather not do any work for her.
Good for you keep that clark name strong I always wonder every time if I see the name Clark if they're family
Exactly! I've started telling people that want a "detailed" estimate, or ones that I can tell are tire kickers, I charge a non-refundable fee for quotes.
Good, I wouldn't entertain that person either.
That's how you do it brotha!
I fired two customers last year for this.
Last summer I had a lady ask for a detailed invoice after the day was done. She knew the price beforehand, yet claimed she didn't. (She didn't sign a contract, mistake #1) Anyway, after learning how much I was making she told me that she had a crew of guys come in and drywall her bathroom for less than what I was charging ($400) to repair multiple small things that took about 7 hours out of my day. I was actually screwing myself over by only charging $400. Well long story short she decided to refuse to pay me full price and I had to eat it since we didn't have a contract. But nowadays I just attach pics of my receipts to the invoice and explain the overhead, especially taxes, in depth. AND ALWAYS HAVE A FREAKING CONTRACT
Nearly all my business is word of mouth. Im currently in a neighborhood that before I can get done with a job the neighbor will come over and ask me to come look at their house when I get done. Im also lucky in the fact that I have several repeat customers that we are to the point they don’t ask a price anymore they just say tell me how much when you’re done. This biggest tip I got from you is this neighbor is mainly wealthy retired people and they just don’t want to be bothered with it. Take care of their problems and they pay very well so they can enjoy retirement. Thanks for all your advice and help.
"Well, if you're not going to use the whole sheet of plywood... I don't see why I should have to pay for the whole sheet of plywood."
Man if I had a dollar everytime I've heard that! 😂
Yes, specially if they get to keep the rest for the next job or future job it’s money in their pockets. The customer can request to keep the left overs, or you can give them the option. The customer always looses the argument anyway because the handyman always has the right answer, disposal, I don’t have room to store it etc, you will never know what the real truth is.
When dumps were refusing all pressure treated lumber I started telling customer they have "heritage lumber" it belongs to the property now the next owners or your kids can use it some day.
@@nicholasthibeault1729perfect lol
I usually skip jobs like that. Just not worth the effort and the customer is usually harder to work with if they want a quote like that. What do you think?
Thanks for taking on this subject! I personally under promise and over deliver, it brings smiles to customers real easily. I also give 2 estimates, 1 if the job turns out easy and 1 if everything goes wrong and there’s lots more involved. If everything goes wrong at the very least the customer was pre-warned and it’s less stress on them and not a complete surprise.
I like it!
I’d like to hear more about how you present the two & the cost difference.
Thanking you in advance.
Down side is (depending on the customer personality) he/she will take more to heart the lower price an will try to tell you the blame is yours , your the professional when something is wrong and you will have to compromise your profits
You are undercutting yourself. Always quote the higher price unless you are slow and need/want the job.
It's $Xxxx to do the job and it's $0 not to do the job. My experience is that as soon as you start to break down things itemized, then that's when the tire kicking starts. And then they expect you to compromise on your price or they want to compare you to the other guy.
Itemized estimates require extra time and that's not free. Better off weeding out those customers and moving on to the next
can tell them you'll charge them for a break down as that's extra time and effort, or charge them a flat rate for the break down like $100, you can say it'll go towards the deposit but it's not refundable.
@@MV-wb2cz yeah I've heard of people doing this. I'm fortunate that it's a rare case that people request this and honestly those people are the ones that are just looking for a way to knock me down in price. And it's just not worth the trouble
@@jaredchandler4504 I hear ya on that one, i've been fortunate as well with not having to deal with this as much.
I work up my estimates line by line for my internal records in my database software, then provide a single line price detailing what the project entails to the customer. For my internal records I have every material, tax, delivery, material acquisition, design time, clean-up, milage, disposal fees, labor, etc for each step. I build in my profit by adding 15% to each of those lines.
If the project is not all related, for instance, paint master bedroom, replace bathroom faucet, and new flooring in dining room, each of those 3 things will be a separate line.
If there are unknowns, such as will I have to replace the drywall after removing paneling, will the subfloor under the toilet need to be replaced, I'll include the full cost of doing that in the estimate, then include a "contingency discount" line on the estimate that reduces the bottom line cost if those specific items do not need to be done.
I'm a painting contractor. When I encounter a difficult customer that wants everything listed, I judge how the future of our interactions will be to decide if I want to take the time to itemize anything. If I determine the customer will try my patience every day I am on the job, I don't invest any more time with that person. If they just want to know labor vs a lump materials cost, I will do that. Usually I just give a single number for the total cost of the project.
I work alone for the most part. I haven’t had anyone in the three years I been in business ask me to do a cost breakdown. I’m in north central Florida. I change $76 per hour, $96 for the 1st hour and 30% markup on all materials. I don’t advertise. It’s all word of mouth. I do what I say I’m going to do and I show up when I say I’m going to show up. I’m honest and I have integrity. Work and think this way and you’ll be a success.
Raise your rates
@@allbayfishing9456 your right but it is Florida. Where you at?
@@oldnstillworkin5709 st pete
@@allbayfishing9456 what are your rates?
Nice handle.
I can see where this is coming from.
I'm normally do most projects myself, but a couple years ago we were renovating our house to get it on the market after living in it for 15+ years. We were limited on time, and some of the work I just haven't done before.
We hired a contractor to do some window replacements, and also a contractor to renovate the bathroom since we only had 1 and downtime wasn't an option if I did it myself.
That being said, the contractor was horrible. Not only did he mislead me on the timeframe to get things completed by almost double, he went with the cheapest items he could, but charged 6X the amount he was getting them for and didn't install what was asked for and had to redo it.
Example, the valves on the existing sink were seized and since we were putting in a new vanity, I wanted the valves changed out. It was written in their quote to have a plumber there to solder on new valves and specifically said no shark bite type fittings. Well, when they changed the vanity, there was no plumber, and the guy used shark bites. When I asked about it, they said a plumber wasn't in the scope and he didn't want to solder new fittings on. Luckily, I had that specific line item in writing and they fixed the issue, but there were several more instances where they took the absolute cheapest way out of things and cut corners that should not have been cut and wanted more money to do it they way I asked them to do things from the beginning.
I can absolutely see why people would want a detailed bid with contractors like that out there.
I got burned by doing this. Sent their neighbor to get materials I wrote up for them. He screwed up the job and they couldn't figure out why I wouldn't help them out. I didn't explain...I just told them to figure it out themselves. Lesson learned.
I’m all word of mouth as well no apps. I used to break things down for customers. That led to nothing but pain in the butt customers. Prices for materials changed so much last year that I only quote labor now sometimes. And add materials at the end. If they ask for breakdown now I say $5,000 to do the job $0 to not do the job.
Love your channel. Everything makes sense 👍🏼
I usually explain my price if someone asks nicely just like you've done. If they don't like the profit or wage I'm going to make.
I usually won't bother explaining my overhead costs or the fact that they are paying for experience ect. Chances are that isn't my customer and I move on.
I've only been self employed since last June. I'm from CT. I do all residential as a general contractor in home improvement. Most of my customers do not ask for a detailed estimate. All they care about is the final price. but when they do ask how much the labor cost is, I tell honestly tell them and the reasons why. In my area I have to charge $100-$150 an hour or i'm not making any money.
In the past four weeks I have spent many hours preparing highly detailed estimates and every single one of them decided to go elsewhere. That's their prerogative of course, but I've decided to stop giving them a detailed breakout of the costs. Yes, they can see the bottom line, but I'm not doing all this work for them for free anymore!!
That's all it really is. You're finding them the prices of everything, and pricing your labor. They're gonna get the same from another, and whoever ends up cheaper is the one they chose.
I also usually give a price. For example, it’s $5000 to do the job, $0 to not do it. My estimates are usually free, but if you want an itemized estimate, there will be a charge for my time for that, and most people agree and understand
I'd go back and bill them
I actually put a watermark on my initial estimate (using Wondershare) so at least there may be some shame if they want to show it to another contractor to beat.
You did the work for them! They hand your estimate over to the next guy to do it for less!
I have several repeat customers that don't ask for an estimate, they just want me to do the work and bill them... Those are the best customers to have. Other customers want an estimates. I give line items for each job I'll perform like "replace exhaust fan & add new duct for exhaust to outside: $600.00 ". I have a supplies section on my estimate to describe the materials I'll be using to let them know why its so expensive like stainless steel 3" deck screws, Azek siding trim, or Grey Sherwin Williams interior satin paint. That way if they want to take something off the list its already clear how much that will reduce the cost. and if they want to change materials its clear that it will adjust the materials cost. Then I have a total labor cost & a total supplies cost and a grand total. I make sure to add terms such as full Materials cost due before work begins if its a large project, & full payment due at completion of work.
Estimator for custom home builder in the Southeast projects ranging from 800k-5M - if I am given a preliminary set of plans I go through and use all of my historic data for some of the material estimates in the interest of time. I have been able to get within 5% of the true cost of the project about 90% of the time doing this. If I am asked for a full itemized estimate at the preliminary stage there are 2 things that I say:
1- I say "why do you need my full priceout at this phase of the project when the plans aren't developed? I don't give out this information so you can pass along to someone else as this estimate and it's templated information is proprietary to my company"
or 2- "if you are willing to pay 1% of this estimate as a part of a construction agreement, I will be happy to share all of the information you request as the plans are developed further and will assist in finding cost saving alternatives if that is what you are looking for"
I never give a breakdown on a bid. I'm not the best at bids and you give a lot of solid advice. The most I'm willing to break it down is to separate labor from materials. Anything other than that and you can take it or leave it....cuz every time I've ever broken my bid down they handed it to another contractor and asked them 'can you beat these numbers?'
So I choose to not give them the info to low-ball me....because I've also had these same people call me later to try and come and fix the work of the other contractor they gave my bid to beat. He starts it, he can finish it.
I want to buy a caulk gun sweater... Please show me the itemized breakdown?
It's can be difficult to explain this to a new independent contractor. I always tell them to give a fair quote, and move on. The customer will call you when they can't find anyone that can do better work for lower cost. Don't adjust your standards just to get one fussy customer.
This. Learned myself the hard way when I started... trying to get jobs I bent over backwards and regardless of that they were still demanding to the very end. It was too much stress. The more leash you give the harder they pull. If they don't like the bid, smile, say OK! and move on.
True. Often times the "cheap" customers are also the most picky
Great topic to discuss Handydude. As a customer, I’m a “give me the total price” kinda guy. I don’t need a break down.
I know how many days a job will take me. I charge so much a day for my labor. My day starts when I pull up to the store about 6/7am. I never mark up materials but I have leftovers in my shop from other jobs. I never charge a customer more than estimated but do charge less sometimes. I never ever give detailed estimates except time of start estimated time to complete, 50% money upfront, when the balance is due etc. I've never had a problem usually always finish early and I never hire help. I'd never waste my time doing detailed estimates of materials. Its just not necessary...too many other customers who need help. My customers have always been happy. I feel so blessed to be a business owner, keeping my own time and making people happy. Its a good life.
Everyone who read your comment should write that on their wall.
@@Seldomheardabout thank u
this is exactly how i operate as well, i still am learning the time that takes to bring a job to completion
I do a detailed estimate for myself and that’s what is used to give a quote to the customer but I don’t give them a line item breakdown. For items that they need to pick out I give an allowance cost in the estimate that I give them but that’s it. If they want a detailed invoice then I tell them it will be done as an hourly rate job and I’ll detail everything and it’s on their time.
Billing them for time spent in estimations is a very good idea. Thanks!
I have owned a single guy custom cabinet shop for over 20 years and totally agree with all the points made. In my experience be very careful with breaking a job down to that level. It gives the wrong type of client the tools to gut your quotation of any profit and leave you with endless re-quotes removing more and more profit and more paperwork. Be especially careful if like myself you are supplying trade only materials not available to the general public as this will come back to haunt you in the future when it's word of mouth work. Personally I always supply a full written fixed price quotation with a specification of works but never a cost breakdown.
By trade only materials what are you referring to? I'm looking to start a similar business but the supply side is what I'm having trouble with understanding. Is there a special place where you get your wood, glue, etc?
Aint nobody got time for a line by line unless it's a big job, otherwise not worth the time. This is the price, if you want the work great, if not there's plenty of people who can't even find someone decent to work right now
Just recently had a potential client do this. We went and looked at 4 properties (didn’t charge her), she and the realtor picked my brain, we chose one and made an extensive list of improvements.
Then she countered back wanting to take items out and get an itemized before she decided on the property.
If she wants to pay for my time to write out how many pieces of sheet rock, tape, hours, etc. happy to but this “free estimation” shit is getting old and the number I’m giving for free is the number you get unless you pay for more detail.
No free estimates, bill her
I always give the first hour for free. After that I go back to the charge method
I do estimates based on price of the job. Under $500.00 I do a virtual estimate and say "we'll estimate it when we get there before we start." $500 to $15,000 I show up and spend an hour on site and deliver a free estimate. Over $15,000 I bill my base hourly rate for every hour of review/design/permitting etc.
That's my default for residential and light commercial clients.
What I do it to tell the client they have to pay for the estimate and if they take the job the estimate get credited to them Bec cause I would have had to do the breakdown anyway, a lot of my work is time and materials - the competitive bidding process burns up a lot of time - small 2-3 day job are the best for me
You can group items together .... like ....
"Materials" (list the materials) and add 25%(wiggle room) to what you estimate it'll actually cost.
"Labour" through in "sourcing materials" and add %25 (wiggle room) to what you want to be making in case something unexpected comes up.
I don't mind throwing all the key words in an estimate and make it clear to the customer that unexpected problems may come up and it WILL cost more.
how do you have such a nice head of hair handyman?
If I'm having to do a line item estimate then I didn't do a good job building rapport and building trust. If a customer is a type that they want line items so they can argue, question, and try to negotiate each item they won't like the line I add "difficult customer fee"
😅
A coworker of mine was having a house built. The builder gave her a detailed list of items like how much a light will cost, faucet price and install cost. She was on the phone at work arguing with the poor guy on why he was charging x for something when she found it cheaper at x place. 😂
Na, I am good. No thanks, I’ll move on to the next job.
And more than likely not the same item.
@@motherfudger6664 exactly!
Yup! They see a door slab at Home Depot for $30 and wonder why my estimate averages $150/door installed. It's because the door with custom bore/hinge prep. from a door co. costs way more. (I could do it myself, but would cost even more)
Exactly, they expect you to charge the same price as lowes... it's like I have to go.buy this light fixture from lowes for $30 and then also install it for the same price I bought It for? People don't think things through.
The best practice I have found is to give 1 round number for the project. This has significantly reduced the amount of times I have had customers ask to break everything down.
Part of this is also due to building an online presence. Building up your reviews so that customers know if they can trust you or not. Google my business is huge and needs to be leveraged.
The only time I really break anything down is when insurance is involved and the customer needs these documents for their claim. Even then, I’m vanguarding and letting the customer know that insurance doesn’t like to pay what it takes to get the project done.
These are good tips, but I would work on knowing your numbers and establishing trust through online reviews, then, you focus marketing to your target customer base and you eliminate a lot of these problems.
Brilliant strategy! I found this also drives away the hagler's and chislers who make work both miserable and unprofitable.
@@mainely8007 sometimes the best projects are the ones you didn’t have to do
Those people that want everything written down like that or not my customer you a detailed bill at the end of the job I am not going to spend the time for free to write down an estimate like that unless you were paying me my and $125 an hour like a service call besides that all my jobs are time and and materials it saves me a lot of time doing it that way with all the tire kickers out here I do not do bids or estimates or quotes the customer paid for the material but I go get it and pick how I normally work it is they do credit card over the phone at the supply house and then they pay my labor at the end of the job my typical hourly rate is 125 for the first hour an 85 for every hour after that and I stay busy or than I want to be for sure
Mr. Handyman, I love this video and have been awaiting it with anticipation. Thank you very much. I sincerely appreciate your approach and will take it to heart. Also love the discussion you provoked and to learn how others in the business are dealing with "crazy" customers and how they handle them.
I don't really do remodels or anything like that. They just end up being a quagmire and it's faster going from little job to little job. Cash daily vs cash later is nice too.
I try to keep a mixture of the two going.
I much prefer remodels over quick little jobs. I end up losing money on quick little jobs because I'm not good at scheduling them such that I work enough. I like a nice 4-6 week gig. That's my sweet spot. Steady work. Get paid. take a few days off while transitioning into the next job.
I need to get better at doing those quick jobs though. It's all about "me" calling costomers and scheduling. I have trouble with that. Can't really tell someone I can be at their house a week from today at a certain time. Inevitably something comes up I didn't anticipate and I end up on a job a day longer or whatever.
@blackdog productions Yeah I typically try and keep the schedule full for a week or 2 weeks out. I'm not a good "builder" as much as I am a great "fixer". It allows me to run solo with no worries about meeting deadlines. I owned an ISP before this and had 15 employees. All I learned is how evil people really are and thus being a solo handyman makes me happy. Especially when people say "you're the man" after fixing something for them. It brightens my day a lot.
@@MichaelJohnson- solo is the best, i've been with the same customer for almost 2 years of every day work if I wanted, apartment after apartment finishing, they buy a new place, gut it, then i come in and finish it, move onto the next one. Only issue I have currently is being able to make more money because they expect me to charge a similar price for each one and i started as $ and now i'm opening a legit business so i dunno what i'm going to do in the near future lol.
@M V You should at least try and explain why you will need to charge more going forward (inflation is a real thing). People pay for trust more than skill in those types of environments tbh.
I usually have rough item pricing for things.
$10/little items.
$20/medium items.
$35/odd items.
$50/bigger items.
This includes my markup and travel time for the pieces in-between and allows me to count it out really fast. If anyone asks for a break down I give them that explanation and let em count them out themselves.
I grew up surrounded by people who lived through "The Great Depression". Their sense of value was always pretty far off, the most common one I'd hear would be at a restaurant; "They want 25 cents for a piece of cheese", I had a great conversation with my Mother in Law right after she said that.
"You aren't buying a piece of cheese, how much electricity does it take to refrigerate that piece of cheese?", ever cut yourself in the kitchen, that happens at every restaurant. You need insurance, you need a first aid kit, you need someone onsite that understands labor laws (if you have employees). You have to pay the extended costs of any business.
If you roll to a job in a nicely branded shirt and hat, those cost money. Gotta maintain tools and vehicles. Nothing is free.
I one hundred percent disagree with you, the customer starts out by doing this ‘I don’t trust you, and I’m better than you’ these kind of people can do there own job in my opinion. Have had very successful business for 30 yrs, based upon trust and keeping my word. Trust is king, both ways.
If it's your first interaction with the customer it pays to kindly humor their quote request because they probably know nothing about you & they're just being cautious - it's not personal, agree. If you get the job & all works out nicely (no added surprises) they'll likely confidently recommend you to others, no problem.
(We have a lot of bar-fly shiesters & hustlers where we live who prey on retirees & HmB has talked about this conflict. How frustrating it can be for honest contractors because older people tend to ask lots of questions & be nit-picky or request clear detailed quotes. (And admittedly, also be unrealistically frugal.) It's because many "contractors" will briefly start the project with the customer's deposit money then disappear, leaving an unfinished mess behind. Sometimes because they honestly underestimated the project cost & need more money than expected to continue. But too often because they're just sleazy opportunists. It's why many homeowners resort to tackling projects themselves, if they can manage it, rather than risk letting potential creeps into their homes & being taken.)
One problem I find after having done this for 6 years for a living is that, even in a fairly affluent area, when you advertise as a "handyman' people are expecting a bargain. You generally don't get the respect of a general contractor or electrician or plumber. They are looking for a deal and if you charge what your time is worth, many (or even the majority) will bail. And then of course the irony is that they are more likely to complain about the work. They equate you to some guy walking around mindlessly waving a blower. I've walked on quite a few jobs where the customer was being unreasonable. I might be out a day's pay but now it's on them to find someone who will do it as well as cheaply. No hard feelings I simply say "Good luck!"
I don't do breakdowns, it's like being asked to show my payslips, rude! Imagine asking the client to reveal their last three months earnings because you want to know they're able to settle up after the job?
I get that some people just want to make sure they're not being ripped, but I'm just not wasting my time breaking down costs and revealing my earnings, that's my private affairs.
Spread sheet for yourself line itemized out materials labor markups etc
Cust gets workorder with all work detailed out and one price at bottom
The spreadsheets works as a task list for you and it should be same as workorder without prices nor materials
Exactly....ultimately all they care bout is the bottom line and the quality of work you do when comparing to others. Giving too much information leads to nit picking at the small pricing details.
I had a very simple policy, I did not do business with angry people. Overly aggressive customers were always Money losers. Some of them have their ego wrapped up in money and they are not happy if you make any money off of them..
even if it's from your labor and hard work
I Fire Difficult Clients. And of course I can do this because of WOMouth. MOST of the time I give all of my clients a estimate/guestimate to the range of labor costs and materials. If I don't do this then most of the time I get burned and I will most likely lose that client. Now for the ones that want an detailed estimate, I am happy to do that. More often than not I end up charging them more than folks I charge by the hour.
Worked with my father for 10 years in HVAC. If they asked for a detailed break down we told them they needed someone else. Never, ever advertised our business and never had a slow day. Word of mouth purely. Train your customers, payment is due upon completion not 30 days later, and we kept track of who referred someone on to us in case they didn't pay we would go back and say, "hey, why did person xyz you referred on to us not pay?" 10 years, only one person didn't pay, and it was such a small bill it wasn't worth the time in small claims court. But if you want to waste time doing a line item estimate, go for it, your choice and your time. Still doesnt mean you get the job though.
Spicy comment. This is a bad take handyman. You are wrong. This only makes sense for big jobs not in and out handyman visits.
I refuse line items like this. When I was starting I might have done it, but I'm not quoting you the cost of each little thing. Customers like this are almost always a nightmare to deal with. I also don't work with customers who want to nickle and dime everything or claim "I can get it cheaper elsewhere", these are more red flags.
As soon as they ask for a full break out, that is no longer an estimate that is the bill. I got into an argument over cut off wood scraps and left over screws. "I paid for an eight foot 2x4, I get a eight foot 2x4, not a seven foot. . ." and "I paid for a pound of screws, I get a pound of screws." It's not like some custom mixed paint that's useless to everyone else. Collecting up the extras is what makes it possible to cut corners on odd jobs. I've run into other problems and I now have a line on my invoices: "Until paid in full, all materials remain the property of the contracted worker(s) whether consumed in the commission of the job or not. So long as the bill is unpaid, the contractor may enter the premises to nullify their labor and/or remove their property. After the client has paid the agreed upon final bill, and the contractor confirms it, the materials consumed in the commission of the job become the property of the client. Any remaining materials are the property of the contractor to use or dispose of as they choose." Haven't had any problems or unpaid jobs since.
I get the curve ball here. Where I live in the SFO bay area, there is a huge diversity of cultures and each one of them is different when it comes to home repair cost. So I have to strategize my estimates depending. Some give the persona to me as being a simple man, a laborer so they don't want to pay. Although I hold three college degrees! I have to inform them of this. Some cultures insist to remove shoes and wear masks before entering. I have to walk around in my socks when working these jobs. I may have to start refusing these jobs. I can't climb ladders in socks! Oh the stories I have to tell. Luckily I am working for a few property managers now and it's much better. Although I still have to remove my shoes with some tenants!
you da man but i feel like im watching Reno 911 lol ,,,,,,,,,,,,and yes customer are asking more and more about the detail
Not related to handyman type activities. Had a customer with phone and video conferencing problems. Vague in their description of how the issue manifests.
That's ok, there are a ton of diagnostics that I can do and some of them take a bit of time.
So I capture the data, do the research, come up with a playbook of configs. Then we spend two hours on the phone applying, validating, and then we wait for a big 120 person video meeting and it all works.
Now mind you that this has been going on for about 6 months, multiple prior techs, and I solve it.
They get the bill and are pissed off that there is more than the two hours that I spent on the phone with them. I calmly replied that this has been a lingering problem, that others failed to fix, and that not all billable time is spent client facing.
no jagoff lawyer, or whatnot ever looked at me embarrassed at his/her outrageous fees for telling their paralegal to help me out... jesus,
Some people can be difficult and understandably so nowadays. Been coming across more and more people who want everything but do not want to pay for it. Had a lady recently tell me she needed an estimate for a deckbuild. I provided one and she then asked how much I charge per hour. The back and forth really makes me think it is not worth pursuing. Tired of people who do not value my time, I would never waste it, nor theirs ever. After saying my estimate was too high and realizing my per hour was more than she thought she asked me to give her the original estimated price. I explained to her that I had taken on other work.
I worked at a restoration company for 20 years as a production manager and part of my job was to review estimates that salesman had prepared. When the estimate was for insurance companies, we used Xactimate software which have everything listed by line item. The number for us was a hard number and nonnegotiable and if they wanted to get it done cheaper, we would need to remove part of the work from the estimate.
I itemize, but keep it fairly vague. Materials, labor, O&P for GC jobs etc. Try to get more granular if it's being seen by an insurance company - I've had a few of those in the last couple of years. It totally depends on the job how I group things together, whether it's a new or established customer, small or larger job - with certain established clientele it could be just a guess and a handshake. Sometimes the "baseboards" line item will be described as material, install and finish and others I have all trim materials as a line item and all painting as another and so on. Try to keep it as broad as possible while breaking down a potentially five figure number somewhat to make it digestible.
I saw a line item for "contents manipulation" in a competing bid once for a large company so now I always use that one. I like to incentivize people to move their shit out of the way and if I have to do it I know I'm at least making money.
I have a landscape construction company and I always break down estimates by tasks, ie demo and prep, dumping fees, patio installation etc, With those line items I ahve a full description of what we are going to do. Never usually have a problem. If someone wants more detail than that, they are often not going to be very easy to work with.
Regarding unknowns, the best thing you can do is to have well worded contracts with contingencies for unforeseen circumstances. Also just communicate with the customer that things may change depending on what we find. I find that good communication goes a long way. My problem I have is normally is that a lot of customers communicate very poorly with me or their spouse and sometimes things get misconstrued in the process. There's always something. Its not easy but someone's gotta do it. lol
Item #1 = Detailed Estimate/ Quote $1200.00
I just don't work for picky mofos. Peace
I lost a bid for a basement remodel. I was supposed to pick up where the last guy left off. I gave me my price and he said it was to much! Then said he would only think about it if it was half of what I quoted. I lost the job, but I gained knowledge. Cheap people don’t want to pay
If you had got the job, you'd have lost a lot more 👍
You didn't loose anything. You won by not doing the job for a price below your quote.
Dude think about it, the last guy walked off nd they treated you like that? Lol you WON
I've learned not to bid on jobs started by someone else -- it's a potential sign that the client is hard to deal with and the last guy walked... or it was the client that started and realized it was too much for them and they want you to clean up their mess (while they look over your shoulder the whole job.)
@@goodnamesareallgone1 Bingo! I agree completely!
We do detailed estimate’s for insurance companies.
If they want itemized list they're going to pay for the time it takes to do that. Also I will charge them more to do the job. Most of the time those type of people are very picky. If you charge more you don't feel as bad as you have to deal with a person being so picky.
I once had a guy tell that he knew a guy who would do the same work for literally half of what I bid. I told him good luck, and told him to keep my card in case he needed it. A few weeks later he called me to come and fix what his friend had done. I wound up making more on that job than I original estimated. As to detailed pricing, I do that on every job I do that is over $500, and I detail every nail and screw. I usually don't show that to the customer. I do that to protect myself. I can give it to the customer if they want it, but very seldom do I have to, and even then, when they see 150 or more line items and the tally, they usually skim it and never look at it again. By the way, once you do a couple of those, you have a template and it becomes easy and fairly quick to do.
If you're not able to itemize, and show material costs you might be ripping yourself off. You should have all this information readily available
I do it on my end in a spreadsheet you bet....but its for my eyes only.
@@509vista you should still be able to itemize it or add it to a quote with+20% or whatever
I don't see how because I do timing with to the customer buy all materials they ain't sticking me with with that build the only thing I can possibly be out of his labor I go to home Depot Lowe's Carr plumbing supply Mississippi valley electric and the credit card over the phone I've been burned once on with you and I will never be again
This so much, a ton of comments about all the extra time to itemize things out... tells me they don't know what they are doing they are just winging it.
@@nickprafke6664 I'm a perfectly what I'm doing but I'm not going to spend the time at how much material fluctuate these day's and unavailability to write you out of itemized quote I might give you an automizer bill there's two different things
Like ya said. Word of mouth and customer service.
I've had real customers. I break down in detail exactly what the process will look like at the very first meeting. I take detailed notes and pictures as we talk. Also explain the market climate. The difference in vendors. Difference in material. Details about what I think I'll find. What I could find. Try to leave them with a visual picture of worst case scenario and best case scenario. Alo explain that I bid for worst case scenario.
Very last thing. I encourage them to get other bids.
Only one time have I had to break my bid down.
Prices keep going up on materials. It happened to me today. I added extra still making money, just not as much.....
I'm early in this handyman adventure and am pretty sure I prefer the non-itemized approach. I don't want to deal with entertaining hagglers and cheapskates. Fixed price, take it or leave it. And I'm still booked out for weeks. The reviews, references, and portfolio speak for themselves.
I am in the same boat but I am booked out 6 months. I give a price and what will be done for that price.
@@kevinclark5110 I'm new as well, how do you book your time out so far ahead and be remotely close in start dates of other customers 6 months in advance. That is my struggle.
Do you give a “materials and labor” price or just one solid price?
@@nolanclark2253 one number for the whole job
@@nolanclark2253 One solid price. The same way McDonald's and Burger King give a solid price for their $20 hamburgers and we don't get to ask for an itemized breakdown and they get to charge those prices because people pay them, exact same concept.
I don't work with customers who want a breakdown of every expense. I do custom cabinetry full service, manufacturing to installation. Let's say I'm bidding two bath vanities, a kitchen and a laundry room....I have one price and its at the bottom of the page. Its not an al-a-cart menu...If you want to remove two bath vanities (or any other combination of deletions) then the prices of the other items go up. Can you go to McDonalds and or order a number 3 with a large fry but then delete the burger and drink thinking you will get the discounted French Fry price when lumped into the meal? NO.
Before custom cabinets I was in the painting business. In the early days I would break down bids by room, pressure wash, materials cost etc. Constant nit picking from customers. "Well I can get cheaper paint" or "I will pressure wash it myself" or "Why does this bedroom cost so much more than this bedroom." It's best for me to not break it down and when people ask for the nickel and dime breakdown I politely tell them that that is not how I do business.
Each business is a bit different though....If you are a GC and you are building a deck, painting the exterior of the house, and putting a roof on...sure separate the pricing on the three different scopes of work. But breaking down the footing cost for the posts, and the material cost for the roof...Nope.
Very rarely do I have an issue with the way I price jobs because I go out of my way to provide a pleasant experience for my customers. My goal is to leave that project on a friendship level. I get customers by word of mouth and word of mouth only. Word of mouth customers are are ten steps above random's that call on ad's or find you on the web. They already have a friend or several who is/are thrilled with the work you did for them. Word of mouth customers legitimately have a bit of peer pressure to use you. Imagine a potential kitchen cabinet customer of mine that decides to go elsewhere and the other guy botches the job. Their friends will be forever be saying "should have used Jeremy!"
I can relate with the friends peer pressure. I have a solid group/area of women that behave this way with. It is a wonderful thing
I don’t line item things, when you do that not only do you need to charge more for the additional time it took to do that but guaranteed you’ll end up answering and explaining a hundred questions about each line item as well as customers wanting to keep boxes of screws and such because “they paid for it”
I go over the project with potential clients, give them my input and ideas, cone to a consensus on what the bid will entail and then I give them a price that includes all my labor and materials with my markups for profit and overhead costs etc.
I tell them when I can start and when I will finish, and thats it.
If they want to know how reasonable my price is they can get bids from other contractors and then see where I land and either accept my bid or don’t accept my bid.
I work on a first come first serve basis and I only book people in my schedule after I get a signed contract and down payment.
Been at it 7 years working for myself now and have never been without work.
Looks like someone stole 1st... Just saying.
With any job I am bidding on, I ALWAYS discuss unforseen hidden damages. I tell them that I can't see it now, so I'm not charging for it now; BUT if there is something found that must be replaced/fixed while doing the original scope of work, I will let them know right away. I back this up with the worst case scenario - replacing a huge picture window in a living room, after getting the old window out, found termite damage in the framing. Showed her told her that we had to keep removing until we found solid wood. We ended up literally taking down the entire wall on the front of her home! Drywall, electrical, framing, siding, oh and the window.
To me usually more line items means more profit so I’m all game for someone that wants to do it that way
My estimates include a detailed break down of the material (type, not quantity) that will be used for each order. Everything fom wood to screws to glue to paint.....etc. I do not include a line item breakdown with pricing for several reasons. It is just not worth going back and forth with customers who's only goal is to nickle and dime you to death so that tney can save money. Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming them at all for wanting to know. In the past 5 years I've only had one customer request it before we started the estimate process. I wished him luck in finding someone, even recmmended another guy, and went on my way.
2019 changed things for me because I couldn't track the material increases. I went to 75$ hr including some drive time to offset gas. Often the customer opens their own lumber yard account that I can charge to. It's nice to not handle money that's not for me. I tell them light heartedly but serious you pay the bill on Friday, I come back on Monday. Our work has to speak for itself and quickly build confidence.
Great info. If they want to know what they're paying for you to do the job, I see no harm in presenting that. If they don't want to pay what you're worth then you don't want that customer. Sometimes you have to fire customers.
When I was an HVAC tech, I would write out the estimate for repairs after diagnosing the problem. I presented the client with all charges, even if I had to go into overhead and all of that. I wasn't the owner so the pricing wasn't set by me. Now that I'm doing my own thing, I take the same approach and give as much information as possible. I'm not trying to hide anything. I haven't had any problems yet.
So do you charge for the hour hour or two that it takes you to figure out what all you need and the prices and the brand and everything just asking
@@zodiacdogkennels1006 as far as replacements, I include that in the profit margin. I stay up to date on pricing and keep it to between two brands, a good and than a better one. I can get pricing done in about 10mins.
Love the emphasis on customer service and and how it seems to be a rare commodity these days. It plays a much larger roll in my decision making process when it comes to hiring someone than it has in the past.
the more of a nuisance a potential customer is, the higher their bid is.
What I’ve been doing now with fairly good success is telling customers I will give them a ballpark budget within 10% of the job and I’ll add in a few of the details outside on a standard project as well. It’s been cutting down my time working on bids for people who aren’t serious or had not expected the “high” price. Then a guarantee my price won’t change when I do the full breakdown budget after.
And for “unknown” items, I add a contingency to the invoice saying “in these scenarios we often see underlying issues such as…. so budget an additional 10% of the over all total to cover unforeseen issues. We will show and discuss the issues once they are discovered”
Disclaimer, I prepare the customer in the initial meeting that this is exactly how I handle things so it’s never been an issue.
I charge for quotes. If they want more details- they pay more. The more detailed, the more expensive. I rarely am asked for more than category totals using this method. Most people that want itemized are cheap and want to compare my item prices with others. If they've already paid me to quote, they likely aren't going to price shop me and sink the cost of estimating.
I give pretty detailed invoices. Probably more in depth than is typical. I do not give detailed quoates. I'll do an estimate but I preface this with the fact that this price is an estimate. Not a quote. I just did one of these for a tile tub surround. I nailed it. I dislike having a figure out there though because it puts me under pressure to get things done which isn't the best for my mental state. I will be adding a lot of padding in the future to estimates. Think I'll take it as an opportunity to up my prices.
BOOKKEEPING is KEY. The estimate turns into the budget, turns into the invoice, then payment - and this all goes into the books together. Estimates can be created with apps that plug into bookkeeping software. Until I started using BK software it was a huge pain for me anytime a customer wanted a detailed invoice or even a basic receipt. Tax time and loans were a PITA early on and I'm sure a lot of people here have had the same experience. Love the videos.
Which software do you use
@@allbayfishing9456 har har har
@@cliffpalermo dang, shit went right over my head.
Have you ever heard of a construction company getting audit by the IRS? Neither have I. 😂
@@antonbriggs5680 of course I have. I have a few self employed single owner friends that have as well.
I've seen customers demand their extra screws because they say they purchased them . Some customers are a pain.
But it's all about you charging what you're worth and them deciding if they want to be cheap or fair
Last year I quoted a job for a business and they didn't want to pay me $2,000 for 8 hours with $800 in materials ( I would have profited $1200)
So they hired a plumbing company that used the same supplier and charged them $3000 in labor because it was $1500 for 2 guys each plus the $800 materials from the same guy I used. So their total became $3800
They wanted a estimate from me but didn't require one from them
As a tattoo artist, we don't break down our supplies cost. For me, it's just the hourly rate and I'm doing usually really big stuff that will take multiple sessions, so I don't even try to estimate the time. It costs what it costs, you want it?
If they haven’t signed a contract, which I do for every single job, (chatgpt writes them quick) then I give them a single number. If they want it detailed I will do it, but I won’t give it to them. I’ll show it and take it with me. I’m not going to give them the list of how to do the job for free. I tell them I’ll give it to them but I charge $40 an hour to write it out and they can buy it off of me. If they signed a contract, then I happily do it and give it to them because I’ve already factored it in.
Bro. How do you.use ChatGpt for that?
@@user27278 type “write a legal contract for my construction company to do (job)” into the conversation bar. Then I copy and paste into a document and customize the generic stuff to the job. Max Maher just made a video explaining it on his YT channel.
I recently started a handyman business because I love doing this type of work and everyone tells me how much they need the help. Well apparently in my state I need a license for just about anything I do. I can’t replace a light fixture without an electricians license and I can’t replace a toilet without a plumber’s license. For a time when there is a shortage of skilled laborers and people wanting to do the work it is just crazy. Does anyone have any advice for this? I live in maine and have reached out to several maine handymen to see what they advise but have not heard back yet.
Break the rules.
Those are the cash only jobs. When asked by the "man" I say I'm not licensed for that. Customer is happy & I'm happy(no tx).
Aw naw….! I worked for a ‘Handyman company’ in which we had to give breakdown estimates. I quoted a job with customer supplied paint. My quote was like $900 labor plus $20 materials. Customer asked what materials. I said, roller covers and brushes etc. Customer lost his shit- ‘You don’t have brushes?’ and i didn’t get the job. Last time I broke down the estimate like that.
No allowance for tools and consumables, ehh? Customer offering to use his tools? No thanks! do the job yourself! 😅
Some people want detailed estimates and some people just want a price texted to them. I do either. It's not a big deal.
I've dealt with this with a specific investor(I mostly work for investors in my area). I break everything out and then add in a Documentation fee/Doc Fee just like a car dealership. The way I justified it to them because they absolutely said it was malarkey was that my standard estimates included a labor cost and description, and a materials cost and description. Neither broken out. If they wished for me to break down individual materials after the fact(meaning creating a second estimate practically speaking) that time would be billed regardless of the acceptance of the estimate. Where I'm at I have a minimum billable charge of $100 (I use this at my discretion however it is posted on my invoices.) . So that's what they'd get billed.
I won’t do biz with people that want minute details about everything. Just means I’ll have to go back and forth trying to micro manage the relationship, and I don’t want no part in that!
The "potatoes chip" 2x4's!! I almost spit my soda out!! Well played Handyman, Dirty Jersey out!!
This is my favorite angle of your shop, video wise.