Join my discord server if you want to join the testing and development of the mod: discord.gg/WWaF3p4hTE More videos will be uploaded as the mod progresses.
@@tomthestone1470 it's quite logical btw, higher the speed of incoming object, higher the impact for the incoming object, if target has a sharp spear or halbeird.
I was like: "damn, they brought back formations in Warhammer 3! Maybe there is still hope in Creative assembly after all." And then I realize it's a mod. Good job sir
this looks great. I always felt quite sad that the more rank in file soldiers of the warhammer total wars such as the empire and dwarves had no formations, felt kind of dissapointed that these soldiers which go through professional training just stand there and whack their enemies.
This is absolutely one of the best mods i have seen so far. The utility this add's is amazing. It actually helps balance the biggest issue of the Total war meta, being ranged units, and giving more value to heavy infantry. This definitely helps with charges and missiles, but is balanced by the blobbing up, making aoe magic, explosives, and artillery more effective against them like a double edged sword, so you need to pick when and where to use it. I love the way this could interact with how people play the game overall. SO many possibilities, gonna be an instant pickup the second it's available on the workshop for me! The only bit im confused about is the stat values you had on units in the testings.
im so excited for this to be ported to warhammer 3 eventually. This is exactly the mod ive been looking for to enhance my game. Looking forward to seeing future progress!
Ok the Dwarfen Testudo is just insane, the way they just walk through that arrow rain basically unharmed is incredible. While I would worry it makes them a bit too strong aginst the elfen factions, I guess it depends on how those formations perform against artillery and magic seeing how the units get even closer than usual they SHOULD be more vulnerable to that.
It’s completely broken. They took volley after volley without a single casualty. I hope this is a WIP or simply an animation demonstration because if not, this mod is going to absolutely ruin the balance of the game. A formation like this is intended to mitigate losses to ranged fire but in no way can it prevent them. When you have hundreds of people firing hundreds of arrows at you, magical arrows or otherwise, some of them are going to find their mark and probably kill them. It’s statistically impossible for soldiers to cross a field taking fire all the way and all survive.
Artillery and spells would wreck them even better because formations get tighter. Otherwise good to see shields working as intended for once. Cowardly elgi arrows.
@@mphylo2296 Nah nothing is broken. Some of the arrows already hit them, it's not 100% block. Besides there are downsides to these formations and these are dawi. Bronze shields are useless otherwise. Archer spam is way too effective in vanilla already shields or not.
This kinda shows an interesting problem CA needs to address. From a distance all units lose some detail in order to maintain performance. The problem here is that shields make up a big part of being able to recognize a unit (shielded units in this case) based on its silhouette, which disappears when you zoom out, meaning the silhouette changes. The same problem is the case for great weapon infantry. This seems like a really easy fix, just stop the detail reduction from applying as drastically to the shield and weapon models.
The actual equipment on a unit variant has no part on the LoD models. The low detail distant models are very simple like "humaniod imposter" for human / human sized and so on so forth, there is not "dwarf shielded or dwarf greatweapon" just "dwarf imposter"
@@shapesdontfly that would mean adding another imposter to the game files for every race that has different shielded units and more processes to run for the low detail model display (which would probably hinder performance)
@@andresscott1086 More imposters would definitely add to the installation size, the same with more processes, but those new processes would replace the old ones, not run at the same time, assuming CA is optimizing. And even assuming its a performance loss anyway, how much would it really be comparative to all of the other working parts in the game like the ai functions? It seems like if it exists its a worthwhile cost to achieve better unit recognition for users.
It gives melee a fighting chance against missile fire, I agree with monstrous infantry doesn't really have a place if CA would implement this change it would make legendary campaign more epic and balanced rather than range spam.
Imagine, An Ironbreaker wall, But moving with that formation, And throwing blasting charges then going back to that castle form. I'm your 515th sub man! Damn this is awesome
Don't get me wrong you did excellent and stunning work with this but goddamn, it had to take guys like you, instead of the company, to place something so basic in an army tactics game like working formations. If I'm not wrong, their older games already had this at their own launches no? Regardless of the claims of questionable competency, fabulous well done good sir. These are to die for.
this is amazing, much better than the bracing mechanic they try to introduce in warhammer 3 and to be frank, as it looks right now from gameplay content from warhammer 3, the bracing doesnt even seem to work propperly lol
Formations bug out bad when a monster or single entity unit make contact, some form of auto release of formations might in theory work around that but I for one have no idea if the current engine supports that sort (if - then) interaction based on unit states and classing.
Formations give more tactical viability to troops which gives them more effectiveness on the field so I like this. Though I would like to make a suggestion to give Greenskins more offensive formations as due to their more offensive disposition I don’t see shield wall really fitting boyz when they could be on the charge. And I was wondering if archer units could get loose formation if that’s possible?
For the first one lore or common sense wise it doesn't really make sense for the greenskins, save for black orcs, to have formations because they don't have the discipline for it like I couldn't imagine skaven clanrats using formation either or vampire counts etc... And if you watch the battles it looks like loose formation is in the mod already.
@@CanadianGreekhoplite i think for more evil factions like greenskins or skaven i think only elites should be able to use formations like black orcs, or stormvermin, as they are smarter and more trained than the comorn unit
Is there any particular reason you chose to give regular spears access to the square formation instead of the pikes? Thematically and logically I'm thinking the two should be flipped. I'm imagining a true pike-and-shot army I originally imagined when I heard about Warhammer, fielding pike squares to hold against enemy infantry while blocks of handgunners shoot at the infantry in between the pike squares.
pike & shot was a development in combat that didn't always exist irl , in warhammer only a small number of special units have that capacity , typically Tilean mercenaries, High Elven Naval units & Kislev's infantry
@@Marcusjnmc It should be noted that square formation is a highly advance formation for a unit to be able to form so low experienced troops shouldn't be able to form one.
This is really awesome! Thank you for implementing a basic feature that has been in Total War since Rome: Total War 1! It's a shame that CA just keeps dumbing down these games in favor of making everything more casual friendly. Atleast we've got an awesome modding community to help alleviate some of that. :)
Couple suggestions: Give the square formation to the pikemen. They will combine better with the arquebuses. Give the cantabrian circle to all firearm imperial cavalry.
This is awesome. I've been hoping they'd add something like this for a long time. Doesn't look like they did add it in game 3 :( I hope you do manage to port this to Warhammer 3! Looks great.
Dwarf testudo still has a massive gap between first and second rank making it silly looking when enemy shots hit the gap but deal no damage. Otherwise I admire your work, its like you are giving a very needed pragmatical realism layer into fantasy, thanks!
cool mod! sadly i dont play newer total war games (wont go into depth as to why here, in short - i agree with most things volound says) good thing to see that competent people still exist in the community even in the newer games
I know its supposed to be balanced gameplay for all facitons and all but i didnt get why the hell Human factions in this litteraly dont use anything they have and can do againt the monsters and more. Litteraly Armored Halberdiers in Halberd wall with first line kneeling second normal braced and third halberds up their heads. Nothing could get through them without almost dying
These Formations are a giant Liability in a world Where monsters breathe fire are as tall as 5 Story buildings or made of stone Even a novice fire sorcerer can cast a fireball which in this tight formation will cause much death and disruption And what are you doing when a Giant whose upper arms are longer than your pike picks up a tree and yeets it into your formation Then there is the additional danger of flying units and bombs I don’t have to explain why a shrapnel bomb in a tight formation is a recipe for disaster And what use is your formation when a vargheist twice your size and weight(Including Armour) swoops down from above picks you up and drops you into your own Comrades who are standing shoulder to shoulder the other factions have their own advantages High elves can doge multiple spear tips even in a phalanx formation Lizard men skin is like armour and will push the pikes simply aside Pikes Spears and Hellebards are useless against undead who can’t feel fear and don’t have vital organs or can bleed out. Ogers will simply crush anybody under their bulk Desmons Are corporeal and have all kinds of nonsense to protect them Orcs have a Ridiculous shock resistance so they don’t really care if they get stabbed. The main Point of these formations and Weapons is to Intimidate the foe and incapacitate the enemy which is hard when most of your enemy don’t feel fear and/or pain Humans have they’re own advantages in this world mainly steel faith and gunpowder and they do use formations but they aren’t as strong in this world simply because this world has monsters and magic
And thus being near immune to arrows is punished by a proper counter. If only C.A remembered rock paper balance to units rather than big thing smash and more dakka
Why this stuff wasn't in the game to begin with despite the game being able to support it? 1) Games Workshop's fault. 2) Devs tried to then gave up on it because it was very buggy with monstrous and giant creature interactions very early in development. 3) Bugs with magic interactions. The second and 3rd points became strikingly apparent in the mod when you encounter them. It's unfortunate, because outside of fantasy stuff, this mod turns otherwise mundane normal battles into the game into something more akin of classic Total War matchups.
The greenskin having an overhaul would be quite nice too, I would think of some formations for them. -Shield wall Used for orc boys and goblins, would slow them down but give them alot of defense. -Wedge formations of Cav For the boar boys. -spearwall for goblins Make a goblin spearwall for them for defenses and maybe to hold off cav. -Orc taunting Start taunting the enemy to scare them -Black orc square formations Tight formations for the black orcs to give them extra defenses.
@@FilipMoncrief I'm cline to disagree, because there are ijdtances when there where goblin spearwalls and even one greenskin campaigning(these are only exceptions, but you should still get my point.)
@@FilipMoncrief They should still be taking casualties. No formation is impervious to ranged fire. Less casualties than they would otherwise, but not none at all. That’s completely stupid and makes bringing ranged units against dwarfs pointless.
@@mphylo2296 thats how testudo worked in previous games. Especially when you have dwarven armour. And when they are in such a compact formation, they are a better target for artillery and magic, or just getting outmanouvered. So I don’t think it’s that bad, especially when ranged units in this game are OP to the point where its boring
Looks awesome! On top of the stat buffs are there also changes to unit behavior? Thinking of multiple ranks of pikes fighting and better ability to hold the line. One thing that bugs me a bit is the way dwarves buckled from the arrow fire and took 0 losses. No way that blocks all arrows and I didn't quite like the look, maybe have them maintain formation better, but slow down a bit under so intense fire? While it shows the momentum those arrows had, it reminds me of 3k testudo blocking everything while literally having openings. The second thing is how those big beasts charging head first into pikes all survived and so did the pikemen who got launched way back. There should be casualties on both sides the way I see it, I'm not at all fond of the hitpoint system. Of course the massive thing dies harder than a regular pikeman, but I'd rather it be the old system where soldiers have 1hp and big guys a couple. However, I see that magic would become more problematic and I don't know to what level you can tweak that. It's a massive improvement over the original and proof that CA simply doesn't want to make a better game. I wonder whether it's salvageable though, looking forward to see what you'll craft next.
This mod is great and you're complaining about things he can't change or doesn't need to like the hitpoint system? That's impossible for him to do anything about. Complaining that the shield castle from upfront blocks a lot of arrows.... ok then shoot from the sides or the back with your infantry that is ALWAYS going to be faster than a dwarf that is slower while using this formation or your cavalry or magic or artillery or large monsters Jesus just because you can't missile spam go play Call of the end times if you want the old system.
@@CanadianGreekhoplite This mod is work in progress, I'm merely throwing ideas at it. He has already changed the hitpoints of units, I don't see why he couldn't set them to 1. I see why he wouldn't want to, but I have already said that. Of course the "shield castle" should block a lot of arrows, it's the point of the formation. My issue is with them being completely impervious, taking literally 0 losses, especially as the line deformed under incoming fire. Their shields aren't big enough to cover them fully, but this is a proof of concept, which is why I focused on the line deformation part instead. If you are referring to the Warhammer mod for Medieval 2 I did play some of it. It was vastly superior to the actual warhammer game, but it's still medieval 2 so it plays badly.
Now I want to see a Saurus warrior or Temple Guard testudo lol. Kinda sucks how they have loose formations now, I liked their actual formations in the early days of the tabletop game.
Really great work! I like the dwarf testudo the best because the troops really come together into a tight formation. I noticed the testudo got really broken up when it was hit by all those arrows though. Is that a hardcoded knockback effect? The arrows should be bouncing off the shields without any knockback IMO. While in testudo I mean I also really liked the Pike Wall demo. Looks like elite units can eventually batter down an unsupported Empire State Troop pike wall, though they take heavy damage in the process. The hollow squares are really cool!
This is awesome. Is bracing impacted/changed at all? Bracing is sort of how the formations are pseudo-implemented at the moment, so I'm a little worried about balance if you don't mind me asking. Formations look amazing :D
If any army in Warhammer would use this, it would be Dwarves. The nancy Elves dancing around shooting arrows have to have a counter and this looks like it.
With the testudo I think you should maybe reduce some melee attack as a testudo really is only a good working defensive formation against missiles. This would also balance it out to nt only have advantages (just like in irl). Amazing work though, thumbs up.
going to be interesting to see how many people are left playing the shitty vanilla pablum that CA analysts decided the figurine collectors would be receptive to. will actual tactics win in the end? cant wait to find out.
@@daemonsmith_1 this mod exists because the base game is riddled with problems. every single thing this mod does it an attempt to fix complete inadequacy and miserable game design. weirdo.
Man I strongly agree with you in a lot of points if not all but it's true that you always seems to be so angry that sometimes its inevitable that people get mad at you and don't even care about what you are talking... Just my opinion though
Cool looking, really cool looking. Imo, pike wall, unlike spearwall, should still deal damage just as in Rome 2 with pikemen. Spearwall of spearmen should indeed be used to hold the line, not deal damage upon enemy charge. Dwarves with shield castle seem op as hell tho xd
I wish a lot of the game graphic designers and the modders could meet up and discuss how to improve games before sending them out into the world. Or just make everything like Xbox version of Skyrim.
Well, it looks like I'll be downloading this mod the moment it's available. I wonder if the AI will be able to use it and if they do, the hard counter for those tight formations will be wind spells.
there seems to be some balance problems with the formations, for example theres only one situation where you wouldnt want to use the dwarves one. area damage. maybe remove the charge defence.
Join my discord server if you want to join the testing and development of the mod:
discord.gg/WWaF3p4hTE
More videos will be uploaded as the mod progresses.
You know I hate the word “defeat”!!!
sir I dont know where your mod is, can you link it?
@@unowno123 Join the discord the mod is updated all the time - usually at least once a week as we make progress
07:13 some of them should die under heavy fire to much missle resistamce
If I can have Empire Halberdiers form a decent spear/pike wall, I might actually believe they're worth a damn for once.
atm they're busted in warhammer 3
@@otrain46 how so?
@@otrain46 Yeah, I am curious now, are they busted in a good way or a bad way?
@@thecabbage84 charge reflection. They deal extra damage or something like that.
@@tomthestone1470 it's quite logical btw, higher the speed of incoming object, higher the impact for the incoming object, if target has a sharp spear or halbeird.
I was like: "damn, they brought back formations in Warhammer 3! Maybe there is still hope in Creative assembly after all." And then I realize it's a mod. Good job sir
thanks i would have thought it as a new change in TWW III. But they should add formations agree!
saame
WH3 hasn't even come out and yet we already have the best mod for it lol. Unbelievable work king.
This looks so sick and exactly what I've wanted in Warhammer.
Makes these troops look so much more professional!
Amazing. This is jsut amazing, your previous showcases also. Just splendid job. Im really so excited for the mod to release completly.
this looks great. I always felt quite sad that the more rank in file soldiers of the warhammer total wars such as the empire and dwarves had no formations, felt kind of dissapointed that these soldiers which go through professional training just stand there and whack their enemies.
This is absolutely one of the best mods i have seen so far. The utility this add's is amazing. It actually helps balance the biggest issue of the Total war meta, being ranged units, and giving more value to heavy infantry. This definitely helps with charges and missiles, but is balanced by the blobbing up, making aoe magic, explosives, and artillery more effective against them like a double edged sword, so you need to pick when and where to use it. I love the way this could interact with how people play the game overall. SO many possibilities, gonna be an instant pickup the second it's available on the workshop for me!
The only bit im confused about is the stat values you had on units in the testings.
Looks to reflect older TW game stats....just multiply armor values by ten
@@lutherabel2618 Ah! Ty that makes things much more understandable, ngl I kinda like the smaller numbers, makes things easier to calculate
im so excited for this to be ported to warhammer 3 eventually. This is exactly the mod ive been looking for to enhance my game. Looking forward to seeing future progress!
Welp! I don't think I can play Total Warhammer without this mod now!
Ok the Dwarfen Testudo is just insane, the way they just walk through that arrow rain basically unharmed is incredible.
While I would worry it makes them a bit too strong aginst the elfen factions, I guess it depends on how those formations perform against artillery and magic seeing how the units get even closer than usual they SHOULD be more vulnerable to that.
Also they're even slower in that formation so you could just run around it on foot but the ai can't deal with it though.
Woah ho now. Did you just imply the Dawi should be vulnerable to magic? That's going in the book.
It’s completely broken. They took volley after volley without a single casualty. I hope this is a WIP or simply an animation demonstration because if not, this mod is going to absolutely ruin the balance of the game. A formation like this is intended to mitigate losses to ranged fire but in no way can it prevent them. When you have hundreds of people firing hundreds of arrows at you, magical arrows or otherwise, some of them are going to find their mark and probably kill them. It’s statistically impossible for soldiers to cross a field taking fire all the way and all survive.
Artillery and spells would wreck them even better because formations get tighter. Otherwise good to see shields working as intended for once. Cowardly elgi arrows.
@@mphylo2296 Nah nothing is broken. Some of the arrows already hit them, it's not 100% block. Besides there are downsides to these formations and these are dawi. Bronze shields are useless otherwise. Archer spam is way too effective in vanilla already shields or not.
This kinda shows an interesting problem CA needs to address. From a distance all units lose some detail in order to maintain performance. The problem here is that shields make up a big part of being able to recognize a unit (shielded units in this case) based on its silhouette, which disappears when you zoom out, meaning the silhouette changes. The same problem is the case for great weapon infantry.
This seems like a really easy fix, just stop the detail reduction from applying as drastically to the shield and weapon models.
The actual equipment on a unit variant has no part on the LoD models. The low detail distant models are very simple like "humaniod imposter" for human / human sized and so on so forth, there is not "dwarf shielded or dwarf greatweapon" just "dwarf imposter"
@@SolusLupi Then make the shields part of the lod….
@@shapesdontfly that would mean adding another imposter to the game files for every race that has different shielded units and more processes to run for the low detail model display (which would probably hinder performance)
@@andresscott1086 More imposters would definitely add to the installation size, the same with more processes, but those new processes would replace the old ones, not run at the same time, assuming CA is optimizing.
And even assuming its a performance loss anyway, how much would it really be comparative to all of the other working parts in the game like the ai functions? It seems like if it exists its a worthwhile cost to achieve better unit recognition for users.
You gave the units captains and standard bearers. I'm in love.
interestingly enough monstrous infantry seem to fill a niche as formation and pike wall breakers in this mod which is neat
Least they’d have a use other than anti-cav
It gives melee a fighting chance against missile fire, I agree with monstrous infantry doesn't really have a place if CA would implement this change it would make legendary campaign more epic and balanced rather than range spam.
This should have been in since day one.
@@madmanthepope6448 unfortunately Ca likes to let the modders make their games better instead of them
@@juwebles4352 They should pay them and incorporate it in the game.
Also the rebalance of the pike formation is greatly appreciated, way more balanced and believable now!
Imagine, An Ironbreaker wall, But moving with that formation, And throwing blasting charges then going back to that castle form. I'm your 515th sub man! Damn this is awesome
Don't get me wrong you did excellent and stunning work with this but goddamn, it had to take guys like you, instead of the company, to place something so basic in an army tactics game like working formations. If I'm not wrong, their older games already had this at their own launches no?
Regardless of the claims of questionable competency, fabulous well done good sir. These are to die for.
yes, all of the older games had this. this mod just reactivates it.
TRULY AMAZING GOOD SIR! I am happy to see someone finally decided to do it and did it well. Congrats and big thanks to you my friend!
this is amazing, much better than the bracing mechanic they try to introduce in warhammer 3
and to be frank, as it looks right now from gameplay content from warhammer 3, the bracing doesnt even seem to work propperly lol
WELP found the only mod I will ever need in TW3 keep it up man this RULES!
That dwarf shieldwall is chefs kiss
Why isn't this in the game? How would it make it worse?
Good work dude
Formations bug out bad when a monster or single entity unit make contact, some form of auto release of formations might in theory work around that but I for one have no idea if the current engine supports that sort (if - then) interaction based on unit states and classing.
this formation is that feature whats warhammer needs. no more archer op builds. Nice and dirty fights ;P
Formations give more tactical viability to troops which gives them more effectiveness on the field so I like this. Though I would like to make a suggestion to give Greenskins more offensive formations as due to their more offensive disposition I don’t see shield wall really fitting boyz when they could be on the charge. And I was wondering if archer units could get loose formation if that’s possible?
For the first one lore or common sense wise it doesn't really make sense for the greenskins, save for black orcs, to have formations because they don't have the discipline for it like I couldn't imagine skaven clanrats using formation either or vampire counts etc... And if you watch the battles it looks like loose formation is in the mod already.
@@CanadianGreekhoplite i think for more evil factions like greenskins or skaven i think only elites should be able to use formations like black orcs, or stormvermin, as they are smarter and more trained than the comorn unit
Loose formation is already in the mod i believe
@@CanadianGreekhoplite VC could work. Doesn't get any more disciplined than skeketons
Finally, anti large infantry can be really anti large
Is there any particular reason you chose to give regular spears access to the square formation instead of the pikes? Thematically and logically I'm thinking the two should be flipped. I'm imagining a true pike-and-shot army I originally imagined when I heard about Warhammer, fielding pike squares to hold against enemy infantry while blocks of handgunners shoot at the infantry in between the pike squares.
pike & shot was a development in combat that didn't always exist irl , in warhammer only a small number of special units have that capacity , typically Tilean mercenaries, High Elven Naval units & Kislev's infantry
@@Marcusjnmc It should be noted that square formation is a highly advance formation for a unit to be able to form so low experienced troops shouldn't be able to form one.
wait, there were literally no unit formations in vanilla? not even freaking pikemen phalanx?
This is really awesome! Thank you for implementing a basic feature that has been in Total War since Rome: Total War 1! It's a shame that CA just keeps dumbing down these games in favor of making everything more casual friendly. Atleast we've got an awesome modding community to help alleviate some of that. :)
some of the simplest gameplay I've experienced in total war was in the historical titles.
Good mod might check it out. Wish this was official because even in the original empire trailer they showed the halberds entering a formation.
This is absolutely incredible!
That’s really cool! Remembering warhammer mod for medieval 2, dwarfs if I’m not wrong had there shield wall
10/10 mod, amazing work. Especially on the handgunner square formations.
Couple suggestions:
Give the square formation to the pikemen. They will combine better with the arquebuses.
Give the cantabrian circle to all firearm imperial cavalry.
you are doing the lords work
Brings a tear to my eye. I hope this take endures.
this is a professional level of polish dude
I am so sad that we have to rely on a mod for this, because it's so incredible.
We will watch your development with great interest
This is literally the exact thing the dwarves need. This is awesome!!!
I think i can say this for all Dawi alike. This is another grudge resolved
Aw man I need this for all shielded troops. Can't wait to have this feature in mortal empires and ttw3. Steam workshop front page goes brrrrrrrrrt
This is awesome. I've been hoping they'd add something like this for a long time. Doesn't look like they did add it in game 3 :(
I hope you do manage to port this to Warhammer 3! Looks great.
maybe you can put fire by rank from shogun 2 or empire total war for gun units?
Dwarf testudo still has a massive gap between first and second rank making it silly looking when enemy shots hit the gap but deal no damage.
Otherwise I admire your work, its like you are giving a very needed pragmatical realism layer into fantasy, thanks!
This is really nice. It would change the face of the game I think. So many new ways to use units! Can't wait to see this in WH3
Looks great, WH is sorely lacking in the 'battle realism' and units formation departments. Hopefully it'll end up fully Grimhammer-compatible lol
This is already a battle overhaul, not just formations, with stats and everything. So probably won’t be sfo compatible lol
Holy shit this is amazing. This is what the trilogy should've had since the start like the technologies that are supposedly formations.
cool mod! sadly i dont play newer total war games (wont go into depth as to why here, in short - i agree with most things volound says)
good thing to see that competent people still exist in the community even in the newer games
I know its supposed to be balanced gameplay for all facitons and all but i didnt get why the hell Human factions in this litteraly dont use anything they have and can do againt the monsters and more. Litteraly Armored Halberdiers in Halberd wall with first line kneeling second normal braced and third halberds up their heads. Nothing could get through them without almost dying
These Formations are a giant Liability in a world Where monsters breathe fire are as tall as 5 Story buildings or made of stone
Even a novice fire sorcerer can cast a fireball which in this tight formation will cause much death and disruption
And what are you doing when a Giant whose upper arms are longer than your pike picks up a tree and yeets it into your formation
Then there is the additional danger of flying units and bombs
I don’t have to explain why a shrapnel bomb in a tight formation is a recipe for disaster
And what use is your formation when a vargheist twice your size and weight(Including Armour) swoops down from above picks you up and drops you into your own Comrades who are standing shoulder to shoulder
the other factions have their own advantages
High elves can doge multiple spear tips even in a phalanx formation
Lizard men skin is like armour and will push the pikes simply aside
Pikes Spears and Hellebards are useless against undead who can’t feel fear and don’t have vital organs or can bleed out.
Ogers will simply crush anybody under their bulk
Desmons Are corporeal and have all kinds of nonsense to protect them
Orcs have a Ridiculous shock resistance so they don’t really care if they get stabbed.
The main Point of these formations and Weapons is to Intimidate the foe and incapacitate the enemy which is hard when most of your enemy don’t feel fear and/or pain
Humans have they’re own advantages in this world mainly steel faith and gunpowder and they do use formations but they aren’t as strong in this world simply because this world has monsters and magic
They do in lore, the game is just too shallow for that
To bad there's no combined arms units like the Spanish Tercio was. With Guns, bows, swords, and spears to make the full package as it was.
What’s the point in the hollow square for gunners if they don’t have bayonets? Is there a defence bonus or something?
Oh wow, the game based off of Rome 2 could have all the old formations modded back in? Who woulda thought?
Looks great!
Does my head in that CA couldnt be bothered to add in these types of formations and also fight animations.
This is what I always wanted, you're the one man amazing job
if dwarves were ever to go into testudo, the goblin launchers would have a blast
And thus being near immune to arrows is punished by a proper counter. If only C.A remembered rock paper balance to units rather than big thing smash and more dakka
@@SolusLupi they're already slow enug
Why this stuff wasn't in the game to begin with despite the game being able to support it?
1) Games Workshop's fault.
2) Devs tried to then gave up on it because it was very buggy with monstrous and giant creature interactions very early in development.
3) Bugs with magic interactions.
The second and 3rd points became strikingly apparent in the mod when you encounter them. It's unfortunate, because outside of fantasy stuff, this mod turns otherwise mundane normal battles into the game into something more akin of classic Total War matchups.
small detail like banners gave amazing vibe
Cute cute Man-things, dawrf-things, elf-things but can it stop a doom rocket? no no stab stab KILL KILL.
(Great work by the way!)
The greenskin having an overhaul would be quite nice too, I would think of some formations for them.
-Shield wall
Used for orc boys and goblins, would slow them down but give them alot of defense.
-Wedge formations of Cav
For the boar boys.
-spearwall for goblins
Make a goblin spearwall for them for defenses and maybe to hold off cav.
-Orc taunting
Start taunting the enemy to scare them
-Black orc square formations
Tight formations for the black orcs to give them extra defenses.
Greenskins probably shouldn’t have access to formations, it’s just not their style. Except maybe black orcs
@@FilipMoncrief I'm cline to disagree, because there are ijdtances when there where goblin spearwalls and even one greenskin campaigning(these are only exceptions, but you should still get my point.)
Looks fantastic. Do you have any ideas for thematic formations for Chaos? (Perhaps scatter-skirmish to reduce missile damage)?
Hard counters to missiles? This'll be the only mod that CA bans off the workshop.
At 6:13 they are taking artillery damage? if so there should be some casualties even in a testudo formation
Thats all just arrows
@@FilipMoncrief They should still be taking casualties. No formation is impervious to ranged fire. Less casualties than they would otherwise, but not none at all. That’s completely stupid and makes bringing ranged units against dwarfs pointless.
@@mphylo2296 thats how testudo worked in previous games. Especially when you have dwarven armour. And when they are in such a compact formation, they are a better target for artillery and magic, or just getting outmanouvered. So I don’t think it’s that bad, especially when ranged units in this game are OP to the point where its boring
This is really impressive
ITS SO GOOD!
Looks awesome! On top of the stat buffs are there also changes to unit behavior? Thinking of multiple ranks of pikes fighting and better ability to hold the line.
One thing that bugs me a bit is the way dwarves buckled from the arrow fire and took 0 losses. No way that blocks all arrows and I didn't quite like the look, maybe have them maintain formation better, but slow down a bit under so intense fire? While it shows the momentum those arrows had, it reminds me of 3k testudo blocking everything while literally having openings.
The second thing is how those big beasts charging head first into pikes all survived and so did the pikemen who got launched way back. There should be casualties on both sides the way I see it, I'm not at all fond of the hitpoint system. Of course the massive thing dies harder than a regular pikeman, but I'd rather it be the old system where soldiers have 1hp and big guys a couple. However, I see that magic would become more problematic and I don't know to what level you can tweak that.
It's a massive improvement over the original and proof that CA simply doesn't want to make a better game. I wonder whether it's salvageable though, looking forward to see what you'll craft next.
This mod is great and you're complaining about things he can't change or doesn't need to like the hitpoint system? That's impossible for him to do anything about. Complaining that the shield castle from upfront blocks a lot of arrows.... ok then shoot from the sides or the back with your infantry that is ALWAYS going to be faster than a dwarf that is slower while using this formation or your cavalry or magic or artillery or large monsters Jesus just because you can't missile spam go play Call of the end times if you want the old system.
@@CanadianGreekhoplite This mod is work in progress, I'm merely throwing ideas at it.
He has already changed the hitpoints of units, I don't see why he couldn't set them to 1. I see why he wouldn't want to, but I have already said that.
Of course the "shield castle" should block a lot of arrows, it's the point of the formation. My issue is with them being completely impervious, taking literally 0 losses, especially as the line deformed under incoming fire. Their shields aren't big enough to cover them fully, but this is a proof of concept, which is why I focused on the line deformation part instead.
If you are referring to the Warhammer mod for Medieval 2 I did play some of it. It was vastly superior to the actual warhammer game, but it's still medieval 2 so it plays badly.
Now I want to see a Saurus warrior or Temple Guard testudo lol. Kinda sucks how they have loose formations now, I liked their actual formations in the early days of the tabletop game.
Men for every faction! Great stuff!
Dwarfs: form a Testudo
Elves: THAT’S *CHEATING!!!*
Why isn’t the main game like this I’ve always wondered? Like dwarves shield wall is iconic
Buggy interaction with monsters and single entities, past attempts to add formations have all encountered this and found no workaround.
Really great work! I like the dwarf testudo the best because the troops really come together into a tight formation. I noticed the testudo got really broken up when it was hit by all those arrows though. Is that a hardcoded knockback effect? The arrows should be bouncing off the shields without any knockback IMO. While in testudo I mean
I also really liked the Pike Wall demo. Looks like elite units can eventually batter down an unsupported Empire State Troop pike wall, though they take heavy damage in the process.
The hollow squares are really cool!
well those are magical arrows with lots of power behind them tbf
This is awesome. Is bracing impacted/changed at all? Bracing is sort of how the formations are pseudo-implemented at the moment, so I'm a little worried about balance if you don't mind me asking. Formations look amazing :D
If any army in Warhammer would use this, it would be Dwarves. The nancy Elves dancing around shooting arrows have to have a counter and this looks like it.
With the testudo I think you should maybe reduce some melee attack as a testudo really is only a good working defensive formation against missiles. This would also balance it out to nt only have advantages (just like in irl). Amazing work though, thumbs up.
Amazing work mate!
I think it would be super cool if unit formations were tied into unit experience. Let me know if y’all think this is a good idea
That would be kinda cool, maybe the higher the rank the more effective the formations are or something like that
Awesome! Why has CA not made this a reality already though?!
Buggy interactions with monster and single entities.
going to be interesting to see how many people are left playing the shitty vanilla pablum that CA analysts decided the figurine collectors would be receptive to. will actual tactics win in the end? cant wait to find out.
I mean it is not like people play vanilla Rome 1 or Medieval 2 either lmao. Always mod total war. It is the golden rule.
@@daemonsmith_1 he’s just praising this mod, what is supposed to be the problem?
@@daemonsmith_1 this mod exists because the base game is riddled with problems. every single thing this mod does it an attempt to fix complete inadequacy and miserable game design.
weirdo.
@@daemonsmith_1 and the claims about this fanbase being full of insecure consoomer losers with no standards are vindicated.
Man I strongly agree with you in a lot of points if not all but it's true that you always seems to be so angry that sometimes its inevitable that people get mad at you and don't even care about what you are talking... Just my opinion though
hello can you make this formation only for the dwarfs please i beg you i love dwarfs and release it for warhammer 2 please
I was really surprised about circulus cantabricus. I've never seen it before.
I've always wondered why they removed formations. They did it on the Shogun series, why not here?
This looks good, can't wait.
Cool looking, really cool looking. Imo, pike wall, unlike spearwall, should still deal damage just as in Rome 2 with pikemen. Spearwall of spearmen should indeed be used to hold the line, not deal damage upon enemy charge. Dwarves with shield castle seem op as hell tho xd
My only concern is that most of these formations have no drawback. Perhaps if you implement a mechanic where formations can't run while in formation?
well sir/ or Madam this should been in the games regardless .. in my opinion its part of warfare tactics .... but great job
I wish a lot of the game graphic designers and the modders could meet up and discuss how to improve games before sending them out into the world. Or just make everything like Xbox version of Skyrim.
Well, it looks like I'll be downloading this mod the moment it's available. I wonder if the AI will be able to use it and if they do, the hard counter for those tight formations will be wind spells.
If you manage to make infantry not dog shit you'll have accomplished more with your mod than CA with TWW3.
Why don't we have formations in the main game?
DWARVEN TESTUDO!
Also known as
Speedbump
That’s literally all I’ve ever wanted
How this wasn't part of the original game irks me to no end...
I think the formation should automatically deactivate once an attack order is given, I think it would make them easier to micro
Everything looks dope! Maybe pump the dwarf charge defense to 30%?
there seems to be some balance problems with the formations, for example theres only one situation where you wouldnt want to use the dwarves one. area damage. maybe remove the charge defence.
Can you make the hollow square with the lothern sea guard??. Great mod ever!!
Please, please add this to TWW3 as soon as possible. This is sick.
This is great. Especially pike units.
YEESS this is what we need and CA don't even think about it is just disappointing
whats up with the unit stats? this looks awesome btw