Bitcoin vs Gold: The Great Debate with Michael Saylor and Frank Giustra
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- Опубликовано: 21 апр 2021
- It's the showdown that everyone has been waiting for. Gold financier Frank Giustra versus MicroStrategy CEO Michael Saylor in the ultimate gold vs bitcoin battle. Our Daniela Cambone moderates.
#bitcoin #gold #bitcoinvsgold
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Michael was talking about bitcoin, Frank was talking about Michael.
🔥😎✅
Yep, that really makes an impression.
Great comment
and then at the end he cries about being attacked lol
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It's going to be real fun to revisit this video in 5-10 years.
Buying both. Bitcoin known to gain value faster, and gold known to hold value via historical precedent
I would say 12 months ..
Right!!! Puerto Rock!! JP Morgan are super whales! They are buying bitcoin!
Right! Frank is grasping straws. He doesn't want the shift of power to happen
BITCOIN FOR KIDS
GOLD FOR ADULTS
I've seen people make seven-figure profits in both declining and rising markets; it all depends on the information and methods used. There is no doubt that the recession and crisis have benefited some people significantly.
That is why I make an effort to speak with a financial coach before making any investing decisions. Since the pandemic outbreak, I've been using one because their entire business model centers around trading long and short simultaneously, applying profit-oriented tactics and minimizing risk as a buffer against inevitable downtrends. Furthermore, it is essentially impossible for them to perform poorly because they have access to insider data and analysis. After nearly three years of training with a coach, I earned over two million dollars.
@@Ammo-Hoarder Is there any chance you could recommend who you work with? I've wanted to make this switch for a very long time now, but I've been very hesitant about. I'll appreciate any recommendation
The thing is that I really don't like making such recommendations. But there are many freelance wealth managers you could check out. I have been working with "LISA ELLEN SHAW" for about four years now, and she's made decent returns. If she meets your discretion, then you could go ahead.
@@Ammo-Hoarder This is useful information; I copied her whole name and pasted it into my browser; her website appeared immediately, and her qualifications are excellent; thank you for sharing.
The fin-Markets have underperformed the U.S. economy as fear of inflation hammers the prices of stocks and bonds. My $400,000 portfolio is down by approximately 25%, any recommendations to scale up my returns before will be highly appreciated.
You have to get a financial-advisor/broker to aid you diversify your portfolios to include commodities, inflation-indexed bonds and stocks of companies with solid cash flows, as opposed to growth stocks where valuations were based on future potential earnings,
@@BenjaminMcLeod815 Trying times are ahead, and good personal financial management will be very important to weather the storm. It would be very a innovative suggestion to look out for Financial Advisors like " CORINNE CECILIA HEANEY , who can help shape up your portfolio.
@@PhilipMurray251 please how do i find this woman, i'm in dire need of an F,A
@@PhilipMurray251 Corinne Cecilia Heaney really seem to know her stuff. I found her website, read through her resume, educational background, qualifications and it was really impressive. She is a fiduciary who will act in my best interest. So, I booked a session with her
who has a 400k portfolio and is asking for recommendations in the comments
OK, so what did we learn?
Frank will buy bitcoin at the dip
Michael will not buy gold
Lmfaooo
Today I learned that having money does not = being smart. AND.....I got to see a dinosaur die on live TV/WEB today. Adapt or Die!
@@MHendersonwriter you’ve been watching “Money Ball”!
@@markfoster8167 No, Ive been watching old gold lovers get publicly embarrassed because they cant put their pride down..this is a vicious cycle that will continue to go on...
Spot on!
Two hour summary:
- Frank will buy some bitcoin from Michael.
- Michael will buy some olive oil from Frank.
and Michael will buy some gold from me.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Michael will never sell his Bitcoin...Frank will need to register with Coinbase
🤣
Best comment here! HHahaha! Made my day! So funny! 🥳😋
When someone attacks the opponent personally, it means they are running out of argument. Same as when you glorify your own expertise. Frank kept commiting logical fallacies. I love it how Michael would just strike back with facts and theory in cold blood.
I'm thinking Frank has an ego problem. Very rude
Yes Bit it coin…..
Nobody wants gold… its always stolen. Bitcoin is not fantasy. It’s reality
The beauty of Micheal’s opening remark just focussed on engineering, 1st principles and pure reality. Love to see it
you need to watch this again, your guy lost it big time. Michael just made me sell my Bitcoin, I made me realize that Bitcoin is useless
Gold is a physical asset. Bitcoin, stocks, bonds, etc. are financial assets. Physical assets are possesed at the individual level and are protected by simple longstanding property rights laws. Financial assets are dependent on complex technological, legal and political systems and therefore are not truly possessed at the individual level, only nominally so. If the power goes off or there is a technology or political disruption, your bitcoin may cease to exist. Maintaining the bitcoin system requires a huge amount of energy. Once gold is possessed, no energy is required to maintain it.
This is the first debate i've seen where neither of the guests interrupted each other even once.
For me that was part of the problem. They weren't talking to each other. They were just expressing their views with no jousting and arrival at mutually agreed truth.
@@whatifgodimagineinfinity5526 I wish they had spoken directly to each other instead of Daniella, but I LOVED how respectful each of them were--we could actually hear their arguments!!! Compare that to a T***p debate...
@@PhoenixCrown
I love Trump crushing Faux Joe!!!
Yes, I felt the same, it was more like a presentation.
I hope this debate, between these two seasoned gentlemen, can demonstrate and serve as a template to the millennial generation how to do so in a civilized fashion without intellectual dishonesty, pejoratives, crybullying, and other petty behaviour.
Lot of respect for Michael when Frank was attacking. Michael didn't do it once. Respect to him
I thought the same. Michael stayed calm while attacked quite personal by Frank.
There is no need to attack a gold defender, it’s like embarrassing an elder whose time has passed.
It was very obvious saylor understands bitcoin and gold, frank was getting schooled so he just attacked.
Speaks volumes
Michael attacked Frank with arguments and facts. It was easy
I scrolled the comments, initially thinking no one noticed. I am not keen on Frank's approach. A debate is terrible when the opposition takes sly digs instead of sticking to the topic.
Now that a year has passed, it would be informative to have a rematch. Great presentation by both.
What about now
It only took 10 years for there to be a mature debate about bitcoin between 2 opposing sides. Great one!
legend
Bitcoin outperformed Gold from the date of thos debate too. Gold went the way..
What a pleasure it is to have a hostess that asks a powerful question and allows the guest to speak freely.
never happens on cable tv ever!
Stop watching TV for a few months and then you notice this is actually normal.
She's so good. Solid interviewing skills.
You don't get that on tv!
I hope this debate, between these two seasoned gentlemen and a tempered moderator, can demonstrate and serve as a template to the millennial generation how to do so in a civilized fashion without intellectual dishonesty, pejoratives, crybullying, and other petty behaviour.
These two gentlemen could teach our politicians about how to fairly debate like men.
And most of all, have moderators like Daniela.
What politicians?
I'm not so sure I'd call Frank a gentleman, I could be wrong about him of course but I think he has some pretty clear and suspect connections to the Clintons and Epstein from memory.
@@FerventReminder hmmm
Exactly. It was much much more professional than Trump v Biden
One of the Best interviews of our time! True rebuttal issues of monetary problems we have for ages.
Given that we all can not always own one of these, the greatest question now remains; Besides these two, is there even any other 1nflation resistant way of getting and storing cash?
@@the_jean_mum Now you have my attention sir!! Who's the knight in shinning armour
@@the_jean_mum Wow I know this little lady. Once listened to her podcast. Great speaker.
I pose a question. What is the biggest vault in the world and what am I trying to relay to you folks ? Secondly, what is the definition of ESG and how does this impact this conversation ?
No, if you can't get bitcoin you can only get cash and it will always inflated because we will always have incompetent people running this country.
You can't get rid of inflation itself, but I think you can manage it. Especially if you got some smart economics and algorithms. For example decreasing supply when price is low to increase price and vice versa. I don't know much about economics but this is what some crypto's are trying to do with bonding curves etc(?) Try looking into the Terra (LUNA coin) ecosystem and it's underlying tech or Sora, another project trying to create a stable coin.
No interruptions from either debater or the moderator only to inform time is up and to ask the questions...WOW!!! Moderator very professional and showed no bias...next presidential debaters should be forced to watch this debate!!!
thumb up this, but still do believe Trump did better with Biden and more fun~~
@@LingJunZhang yessss
Worst moderator ever Chris Wallace from Fox sooo biased for Biden disgusting and shameful
@robin young if the moderator is not bias then yea I see your fuckin point 🤘I don’t know how she would of handled a ruckus presidential debate? Goldwater 🤣 that’s a long time ago jeez…anyway your comment was Hott AF!
Just let Daniella do the next presidential debate lol
I'd like to see Michael debate Peter Schiff.
Peter actually reached out but he refuses to debate him...
Peter schiff can't even debate his own son
Theres no point Schiff just shouts over people
Maybe if it was moderated like this one it wouldn't be too bad.
@@thomasbrittinghamjr.8508 but this format sucks. You only have 1 minute to rebuttal. If I were on the side of gold I will literally throw so much FUD to Michael to the point that it’s impossible for Michael to rebuttal each point effectively.
As a guy that can’t play the gold or Bitcoin speculative accumulation game I can still understand that a gold nugget will still be under your mattress when the lights go out.
If the lights go out the only things that will be valuable are food water and guns
@@domman1077that’s a lie because you can’t afford gold .
How is gold going to become a payment of method are u going to the supermarket and break pieces of gold to give to cashier 🤔🤔🤔
Still through the central banks and banks digital actual currency
Michael Saylor lays out the statistics while Frank Guistra lays out his emotions. I've learned more about Gold here from Michael than Frank himself.
Spot on
Totally agree;)
Halfway through Frank's opening statement and I'm thinking wtf is he trying to do!
I'm hoping to hear an adult debate... I'll keep listening.
58 minutes in and Michael sounds bored in his rebuttal - wasting his breath on Frank's myopic argument.
Conclusion: Michael got rich using brain and intellect.
Frank got rich using pick and shovel.
I feel kinda sorry for Frank, he's getting left behind.
hahaha youre right.
Learned more about gold today by listening to Michael Saylor then I did from Frank Giustra.
Lmaoooo yooo 😂😂😂😂 bruhhh
True! Frank talked more about Bitcoin than gold.
🤣🤣
😭😭😭
🤣🚀
A visionary vs a skeptic, history has proven that disruptive technology wins and it’s clear that it’s shaped our lives over time. In order to move forward, there is always a leap of faith required, but playing defense vs offense is a choice everyone needs to make for themselves.
I watched the whole thing and you what you can see is one man that brought up all his points in an objective manner while the other felt like defending himself and his asset because there was no "obvious reason" to like it. Love your work Michael!
Saylor's rant on people seizing gold is FKN EPIC!!!!!!
My favorite part so far
makes Franky sound like pure tedium
Ya just after Giustra said “I know my history” ... boom slammed dunked on
It is an excellent proof of the value of Gold.
@@bigqueue Its pretty clear in 2021, governments are more scared of bitcoin than gold. The fact Frank is more scared the government will ban bitcoin than gold shows bitcoins value proposition as the future of sound money.
Frank convinces me to buy more BTC. Thanks man
✅
lmao true
Peter come help your boy. He ain't helping.
getting wrecked, today.
This comment didnt age well quick..
What a great debate for our next generation. This video will be so impactful for our future kids than going to an outdated finance classes or majors!
Saylor is the master in these situations. Incredible intelligence with foresight. For those reasons he will be the richest person in history soon
Nope. Buy hex instead.
@@andrashka3 LMAO hex
@@andrashka3 sorry about your hex position. Hope you'll reconsider Bitcoin now
@@spikestephens lmao
Michael was a true Gentleman and weathered the personal attacks with honor & Grace. Best Moderation ever! Thank you 🙏
😆😅 Michael didn't answer because he had no answer to give.
@@jeanrichardvarre6062 what didn't he answer?
1:24:55 answering like ? Delusional.......what is he saying..........words .... glued together meaning nothing
@@jeanrichardvarre6062 haven’t watched it have you ;)
@@SacrumImperiumRomanum517 He didn't speak at length about the great Danger facing all Bitcoin Holders who live in Countries that are 100% certain to Tax all Bitcoin Transactions ( purchase & sale) 2016-2020. All this plus Capital Gains too.
Some Countries will ban possession of Bitcoin outright.
I don't give a hoot who wins this "debate" I'm adding both in exchange of Fiat
Bitcoin was about $51,683 and Gold was $1783 at the time of this debate (Apr 22, 2021). Today (Jun 14, 2022), Bitcoin is $22,090 and Gold is $1815.
Gold barely moves during inflation on top of that Bitcoin will pump harder
I wonder how Mike feels about that? Poor guy. Wait for
A few months, grrat bitcoin position not so much now.
@@nickd3149 The real promise of Bitcoin (I would say) is not the returns. It's that you get to actually keep what you have over time. (which, as for example the dollar looses its value more and more, will look like a return. But the whole point of bitcoin is that hopefully you won't have to go back to the dollar)
@@nickd3149 Oh important specification! Indeed keeping what you have in and of itself is meaningless.
(I could argue that Bitcoin is the best form of property ever invented and that this has in and of itself some (great!) value but that's indeed unrelated to this topic)
So "keeping what you have" should refer to both the actual property and the purchasing power
To summarise in pro-bitcoin terms:
1. Nobody can take it from you (it's the best property)
2. Nobody can make more of it (it's the best store of value)
The best part of Gold and silver is that you can't trace it with is sold, with cryptos transactions will be on the blockchain unless you buy Monero and they are banning it because it's not about your privacy its about tracking your transactions with cryptos.
Frank consistently got personal with Mike , throwing comments like " I have been doing this all my life" which doesn't matter. Mike kept straight to point and never attacked Frank
These oldies suffer from Cognitive dissonance you cant turn them around. They do not understand the value of software
Coming back to see this in 1, 5 and 10 years. It will be so fun!
Poor Frank!! many millionaires and Multi millionaires will be made by then lol
@@RandyDupree people aren't made millionaires and multi millionaires sitting around very often. Be weary
When we survive WW3 of course ,-)
@@RandyDupree millionaires made by crushing the greater fool
@@timan206 It may crash. My point was if it goes up and they become "millionaires", it's because a "greater fool" bought it so then the lesser fool was able to sell, get out, and reap the benefits leaving them to hold the bags. It's a huge ponzi scheme..
Frank Guistra perfectly outlined everything wrong with our monetary system and why gold is antiquated. Well done.
I couldn't agree more, but I stack both of course, as any financial investor should.
Stay Gold
@@shafserious2805ok boomer, enjoy your -1% returns every year
@@darthbrooks4933 not bothered about returns or get rich schemes im rich with life and think of the bigger issue.
Outstanding Job! We need you to do this more often. It was like a breath of fresh air. Let the public decide for them self. Offer the public both sides. Thats called the Truth! Thank you. Keep it up
Dear Dopey. Name a single occasion, in all of history, when "the public" got it right??
This debate is the epitome of legacy thinking vs innovative forward thinking. Nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.
Legacy thinking is the opposite of thinking. It's "doing what we always did".
Frank "I dont just see" Giustra
Well said
XRP is the future of cross border payments and transfers. How much does it cost to transfer bitcoin?
Yupp,, Frank is a boomer elitist, growing fine wines, financing art and smugly preaching "climate change". I don't like him or his ilk. I suspect he would be much happier if people like me and you, most of humanity in fact, didn't exist.
Isn't it funny how all those "progressive" and "woke" ideas that are supposed to appeal to the young invariably have roots in late 60s early 70s? Funny that. Thank god boomers have begun retiring these days, perhaps we'll finally have some peace and sanity for a change (Or maybe I'm too optimistic and we'll have to wait till they start dying off in greater numbers).
Giustra appears to aim a lot of his responses against Michaels character, whereas, Michael keeps is strictly on the subject at hand.
That's cuz Michael's character warrants commenting on....
@@edwardpowellmusic thats how one exposes his own weakness on character and facts of subject matter. when wisdom runs low, offenses run high.
"appears to" ... Interesting choice of language.... Listen to his criticism objectively he challenges Michael's opinions imo,
@@MichaelMinecraft190 or theres another agenda behind the apparency.
BITCOIN FOR KIDS
GOLD FOR ADULTS
The entire debate can be summed up by what Michael said at the end-- Bitcoin is offense and Gold is defense.
Spoiler alert! 😆
This is the video that won me over on Bitcoin...life-changing. Michael Saylor is a visionary.
bitcoin is trash and was designed to fail the moment it was never used as money, not currency or as even an IOU. Good luck with fooling the top of a pyramid.
@@-Fluxor What are you even talking about? It's used as a currency across the globe already. lol
@@NutriNerdy Bitcoin is not a currency. There is a difference between what "money" and "currencies" are.
@@NutriNerdy No it's not , when you "spend" Bitcoin, you most likely are spending money. You sell your Bitcoin, transfer the money to the other party, then purchase Bitcoin again. A true Bitcoin transaction can take up to hours even months to finalize, I'm shocked how little research Bitcoin lovers have done on cryptocurrency. When you purchase Bitcoin on exchange, you are not buying the actual Bitcoin, you just have the number registered on your account, not until you transfer it to a cold wallet you don't own anything. Then unless you pay with your cold wallet you are not using it as a currency, until then it's always linked to fiat money and always will be volatile.
Well, I sold my gold a while back. I don't regret it.
Longterm you will 🤗
With that comment you are right, you shouldnt own gold, because you doesnt understand it. Gold is for inflation and when the market have problem, which have been good since 2009, so the time to own gold is now, not 2010-2020.
frank guistra starting this with high spirit knowingly michael saylor is "reckless" with his statement to go all in on bitcoin, in debate he realize that michael guy are so smart and outsmarted frank in every statement about bitcoin and gold. GOTTTT EMM!
They are both a different animal! But for now I’ll take gold before Bitcoin. I’ll wait until Bitcoin hits 12,000 before I guy in again. 👍🏼
Keep waiting
It’s almost $40,000 today
This is the best debate I have heard on the subject. I love Bitcoin, but I take Frank Guistra's position, that governments that hold the power and the guns are not going to give up their control of the world's monetary system easily. Therefore, hedge your bets for all outcomes. The idealist vs the pragmatist is a good way to frame that debate! Terrific!
Nor will they. The big threat, in any scenario, is global CBDC. That could happen FAST (even overnight) with not a scrap of warning. People everywhere ought to be making/adopting alternatives NOW!
I believe that poorer countries will adopt bitcoin because they then can’t be manipulated by stronger countries as much. This will attract entrepreneur class. Those countries will get wealthy. Which then counties like the US will have to become more libertarian to compete with these countries. My vision is that governments losing control of the monetary system will be the greatest thing to happen to political systems since the development of the republic and the free market.
if they dare to wage war on the people by banning bitcoin, the people will win. especially in countries with the 2nd amendment. Dictatorships like china have already banned bitcoin and the loss is counted. no one cares about them. the people are more powerful than the government. thats the whole point of bitcoin, and thats the spirit behind the people who hold bitcoin, they dont trust the government
Then you are lost
After Blackrocks and Fidelities announcement this week.. you have just been proven wrong. If you smart your happy about it however :-)
Within the first opening statements you can already tell Michael has superior financial intelligence and grasp of both markets ! Throughout the debate you learn more about gold from Michael than you do from his opponent ! What a debate
Jeez that’s facts. Frank keeps saying what central banks and China have *today,* and Micheal keeps talking about the future which is what matters in this debate.
Frank was ill equipped for this debate; he needed to assume he needed to school Michael. It was obvious Frank was was cognitively handicapped in this encounter.
And he started by saying we invented fire.
This isn’t a debate. It’s a massacre
Nailed it.
Every time I hear “living in a fantasy” I’m buying more Bitcoin.
lol +1
Daniela should work for CNN ! Amazing reporter !
Wow how do you earn your bitcoins with profits without purchasing them... With the way bitcoins scales recently I'll love to know
Yeah I believe and I could say it's possible to earn and make lots of profits on bitcoins after I made my first successful profit of $3600 worth if bitcoin. Kudos friends 👍👍
Wow a $3600 profit .that's a very fair and nice way of earning side capitals ..please I'll love to know how to make couple of profits too. Thank you
This debate is perfect. Shows both sides for who they really are.
Nice quote there Frank where you said "central banks who 'manage' and monitor the value of gold is a necessary evil."
You really get to know somebody based on their view of bitcoin. If they don't support it, it's always for self interest or they are misinformed. It really is that simple.
Just because you had the last say, doesn't mean you we're right. Bitcoin's transferability, scarcity, and retail relevancy or use case will show better than any precious metal portfolio. Micheal, thank you sincerely for fighting the good fight. Bitcoin has already seen the win over gold, many times over. It just takes time to realize it.
Saylor is a pumper
o fine example of an investor.
@@maximo6037 I agree. He can't be trusted.
It really just takes time for people to change their world views thats engrained in their mind
Great points are made on bitcoin, the problem is governments don't want to relinquish control of monetary policy. One law passed can change everything for bitcoin.
That was the point of the opposing view, it isn't that electronic coins will exist, bitcoin won't be adopted since government can't control it.
It's so telling that this debate has only 170,000 views. It should be 1000x times this and one day it will be. Bravo for these two gentlemen for having the stones to step up and use their minds to debate substantive issues. The greatest economic issues of our day. Just awesome to see. Daniela, you may be the greatest moderator of our era.
Well because the outcome of this debate is obvious before watching it and clear after a couple minutes.
@@eugens218 what was the obvious outcome?
@@Soaptoaster goldbug gets rekt
@@eugens218 Yep. And not even gracefully.
@Christopher Schotts It's also the genre, not the time since release.
I’m only 30 minutes in, but I keep thinking why is Frank so rude and disrespectful towards Michael - those who attack a person rather than the argument lose the argument in my view
Desperation when up against such an adversary is bound to occur,
Math versus pessimism 2021.
100% mate. Frank has not credibility at all
He's watching common sense drain his stash if golds worth
Well said.
Frank is pointing out the danger if Michael's arguments of hype, hyperbole, and exaggerations and twisting facts, does Michael guarantee you a refund if Bitcoin doesn't goto 1 million dollars, to 500K, to 250K, to 150K? If he doesn't than what gives MIke the unethical right to guarantee you if you buy at the bubble top, by leveraging margin and debts, and then it drops 80%, what happens if you need to spend your bitcoin funds after the crash?
It’s 2024 ,I’d say Michael is winning 😎…and your pal Larry has finally turned and seen the light too✌️
Saylor was a machine in this debate. Giustra comes across as defensive and found most of his arguments just involved belittling Saylor
His only argument was to shoot down Michael, not defend HIS own position
@@tomcain8652
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Thanks to all who made this event possible. God bless all
Michael eloquently showing us where we should be, Frank bluntly (but necessarily) reminding us where we are...
And with that being said, nothing in the universe is stationary. Everything is moving from where it is to where it should be. From Big Bang to expansion to contraction back to Big Bang, and the cycle restarts
@@INeedsMoneys Frank would argue that world view originated at a central bank...
@@Captain-wc6vj why?
Frank is just attacking Michal
All I get from this is that gold is for the bankers and the rich!
Bitcoin is for everyone I know what I want 👍
@@dannycorking2632 people unite. One love. Is all Bitcoin baby! Woohoo
Probably one of the best debates I have ever heard in my life thank you so much
LOL watch the 1:28:00 to 1:30:00 mark.... 2 minutes of pure gold. Remember: Bitcoin was at $60k at the time of this interview.... now it's $15k (09Nov2022)
how about now? 😆
I was so impressed with Micheals class and his ability to contain himself and stick to the point even though Frank repeatedly insulted his character. Frank seemed desperate while Micheal never flinched. I respect both men but Micheal once again just blew me away with his knowledge and passion for the greatest asset of our lives.
BITCOIN FOR KIDS
GOLD FOR ADULTS
@@josephdecrescenzo5001 I disagree, I know plenty of adults changing their mind on what is the best store of value
@@josephdecrescenzo5001 repetitive capital statements for morons.
No you are scared with what Frank is saying. He is right and you are scared you have no clue how governments control. Bitcoin is nothing. Bitcoin will never rule the roost. You only own it if you do because it has went up rapidly.
He's clearly on the spectrum. He simply doesn't have a reaction. Would you be impressed if a vending machine didn't react to challenges to its character.
Stansberry research, Daniella, Michael and Frank: THANK YOU for showing us that the serious, intelligent debate is still alive! And that is worth even more than both gold and bitcoin!
Well said.
Interesting debate. In my opinion, Michael makes clear points that address the actual concerns of the debate while Frank attacks Michael directly.
Bitcoin wins.
Frank, please answer the questions at hand next time xD
Sayor must be working for Chick Filet now. $25 per hour not to shabby.
What a public service to these two gentlemen to help us retail investors learn from them. Very generous with their time and expertise. Thank you Michael, Frank, and Daniela!!
Michael can be imprecise and misleading in some specific details, but Frank, who likes to come off as this more moderated and wiser character, has made fallacy after fallacy. Here are Frank’s main points (just in the first 25 minutes):
1. “Aspiring to be a safe haven doesn’t make it so” - Bitcoin has been as safe haven as gold has. In times of crisis both have dropped and then gone up. But even if gold was and bitcoin wasn’t, that would be perfectly fine. Bitcoin is still much smaller with a much higher potential. It’s like the internet in the 90s. It aspired to be a lot of things and it became all of that later.
2. “Why would anyone pay 60k today without a target of 500k in mind?” - The only target we need today is 60k. If you’re able to maintain your wealth, it serves the purpose. The same applies to gold. The difference is that gold is more expensive to store and transact, so you actually need a higher target with gold.
3. “Pretending that bitcoin is a risk-free asset is naïve” - I have to agree here. Michael doesn’t present bitcoin’s risks properly. However, the risks from government and central banks apply to gold too. Indeed, gold is more easily confiscated than bitcoin. So, it seems that Michael isn’t the only one to overlook the risks.
4. “I don’t see a way where bitcoin is going to be a method of payment” - This is one of the dumbest comments. If he said it’s not today, that would be perfectly fine. But saying he cannot see that in the future is just dumb.
5. “I can’t see how bitcoin is going to be recognized as money in the way gold is” - This is the very same comment that all the disrupted sectors made just before being disrupted.
6. “Bitcoin has never been tested, especially in a financial crisis (…) gold is going to be safe from cyber attacks on both the internet and power grids” - He’s not sure how bitcoin is going to perform in a crisis, because it hasn’t been tested, but is sure how gold is going to be safe in a non tested scenario. Also, these extreme scenarios are a joke. The largest companies in the world are internet-based/related (Google, Amazon, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft). I’ve never heard about that argument to favor investing in Kodak or Blockbuster. Also, bitcoin doesn’t require the internet to exist.
7. “Governments are not going to allow that kind of anarchy [bitcoin capturing the world’s wealth]” - While this is likely to face great governments’ resistance, it’s not an anarchist scenario, providing that governments are still able to collect taxes. An anarchist scenario would be for instance the world war with EMPs that he was describing.
Is Michael reading a script? Wtf
This two are really helping investors
I'm 51 my husband 56 we are both retired with over $3 million in net worth and no debt. Currently living smart and frugal with our money. Saving and lnvesting lifestyle in Bitcoin made it possible for us this early. Thanks to FIRE movement
Great debate! Wish we could have Danielle monitor our Presidential Debates. Very professional, insightful and good
Danielle is a blessing to this generation. I wish and pray my pregnant wife will give birth to smart and intelligent child like Danielle 😅❤️ . She too smart
Great job with your husband, I bet you're living your best life right now
Haha!! Franky boy just made a brilliant case for bitcoin by reminding us that the price of gold is manipulated by our dear governments!! Gotta love him for that!!
Michael, you are a genius! I enjoy listening to you.
A really excellent debate. Very informative and instructional. Glad they both gave their time to do this debate. It can only benefit peoples understanding. Thank you.
Who do you trust?
Frank's opening remarks were just digs at michael saylor without giving anything as to why gold would be better
Franks's whole game lacked validity. It was like he wasn't even there.
Agreed. I felt like this was Frank's game throughout the entire debate, to be honest.
His closing remarks too by complaining about the social media stuff
When someone is losing a debate s/he starts to attack his/her opponent and unfortunately that's what Frank did at the get go.
Frank is a boomer elitist, growing fine wines, financing art and smugly preaching "climate change". I don't like him or his ilk. I suspect he would be much happier if people like me and you, most of humanity in fact, didn't exist.
I have to say, as much as I love gold, bitcoin guy brought the heat in this debate! Very solid arguments.
Next year tulips will be the fad.
@@Longtack55 Agreed. I'm on the side of the gold bugs too
Ok boomer
How about now? Still gold on your house?
@@beeftestosterone4840 you are clearly someone to not be taken seriously. State the specfics of your case or move on,
Such a great debate. I keep going back to it. The key outtake for me is that we shouldn’t be thinking Bitcoin vs gold, but rather Bitcoin + gold
There are all sorts of wanker's fantasies. Mine are more realistically USEFUL than either gold OR craptos. Jane Fonda! (sigh)
"not siezable" wrong again Michael. Ask the Canadian truckers about that. Good job Frank. 🥈🥇🥈🥇🥈🥇
One of the BEST interviews I ever saw about bitcoin/gold debates, i thank the hostess, the speakers and the organisation to have this special interview! I will share this link to many! Thanks!
Great debate! Wish we could have Daniela monitor our Presidential Debates. Very professional and insightful-Thank you
I thought Danela was a bit taken with the moment.
Nearly three minutes of yapping before starting the debate.
It wasn't historic.... interesting, but not the huge event Daniela wants to believe.
@@PaparazziParadise !aaaaa!aaaaaaaa!a!!aaaa Ky
Thank you for running this! Really enjoyed both sides of the arguments
Outstanding debate! highly educational for the public on a very important topic.
one of the Greatest arguments ever! Pure Education...saylor is coming back outaaa nowhere with his uppercuts and hooks
this debate boiled down:
Frank: Government and Banks are extremely powerful and you can't do anything about it.
Michael: Bitcoin is freedom.
Saylor is delusional beyond sanity. Or just a paid shill
@@quant2011 aww you missed out and hating like the rest of the poor dudes
@@quant2011 lol, yeh it's tough when visionary capacity is too low :v
Frank says so because he is in bed with them! He's part of the cabal.
@Endless Freedom Frank is with the cabal too! He worked with Hilary Clinton in the past!!!
The fact that a video like this was made to debate about bitcoin, goes to show that after all bitcoin is a matter worth discussing. Cryptocurrency and Blockchain technology have already won the war and will be embraced by future generations. Would I say no to gold? No. It still feels nice to wear nice jewellery.
Heaven-and-hell must also be a 'matter worth discussing' by that standard. (as would the merits of tampering with little boys to the local paedophile club which also has its video-access.)
Saylor and Shiff should have a debate.
I have missed you Daniella on Kitco.
One thing about Michael....he’s a gentleman and a scholar. A clear winner of this debate.
That was awesome Daniela.
Can we have Max Keiser VS Peter Schiff next? Please!! 🙏🙏🙏🙏
@@catseyes2334 was Daniela hosting it?
Please NO !!
Absolutely not!! Especially having Schiff on. Max is ok at times when he isn't wound up but Schiff is awful
@Diamondhandz369 z-nation yeah because they can’t walk off the stage from the pounding they take
I don't believe those two can have a civilized discussion like these gentlemen. Too much arrogance on both sides.
People buy Bitcoin hoping that someone else will for no reason want to pay more for it than they did.
Try fleeing Ukraine or Russia or ANY country with a million dollars of gold in a suitcase.
Watch the price continue to rise. It's not for no reason. Listen to the arguments. It's about the monetary properties and network effects.
Bitcoin is 66% down since this interview
One of the greatest debates of our generation. Full of great information delivered in a clear, respectful way.if only our presidential debates could go this smoothly.
From now on, we will refer to Michael Saylor as Michael SLAYER!
Michael savior
Frank is trying to impress a generation thats not interested. Instead he's holding onto what him and his old cronies rest there laurels on. Gold and silver is so manipulated and governments/banks own most of it. Of course they won't let bitcoin compromise there asset. For now.
Saylor destroyed this debate. Only lost on the risk but Bitcoin is a baby and volatile and public acceptance isn't fully accepted or understood. Time will tell. Returns on Gold last 20 years have been dismal.
Franks Right in the Money. “Why are you telling people to lever their houses, car businesses against bitcoin, these people are going to get wiped out”
@Ralph Hammond What arguments were stronger? I would be interested to know, he seemed to very much be taking a lot of the arguments more personally than Saylor, Michael doesn't understand this, Michael has misquoted that... Ultimately the proof is in the pudding, look at relevant metrics about bitcoin, and then look at the relevant metrics around gold. Bitcoin is cannibalising gold currently as a store of value, and Micheal won this by a country mile tbf.
I love how after reading a couple comments there is no hate towards Frank. People feel compassion for him as it's obvious that his lack of research isn't as deep as Michael's.
What a community of empowered individuals Bitcoin is creating.. I LOVE IT ❤️
Old people dont do research as they believe they already have enough knowledge 😅
You mean he knows what he’s talking about with markets and Michael just says buzz words to bring dumb people into the Ponzi scheme?
Great debate. Very professional and respectful interactions. That is great journalism. Congratulations. Refreshing to have experts advocating their position as both are committed and invested in their views. Thx
Frank says Bit has no history of being tested in a financial crisis...Guess what, during recent hyperinflation in Venezuela and Brazil -- they chose Bitcoin.
Exceot those examples are NOT financial crisis. Those are social political breakdowns of society. When a society's social and political structures breakdown so does the financial system. Totally different from a financial crisis like 2008.
@@ricoau_ag_stackz2419 Their money collapsed. They flocked to Bitcoin. That is all.
Why do the political and social implications make the underlying financial crisis any different when it comes to the stress test of Bitcoin ?
@@TonyChester Also flocked to Gold 🤷♂️
The examples you used did NOT test botcoin at all. Thats the matter of our discussion. And its a matter of fact 🤷♂️
@@jamarmays8667 It makes it different because in a scenarios like he tried to use the people are trying to flee the currency of their State. That scenario does not test safe haven assets like Gold and supposed safe haven assets like bitcoin.
In a true financial crisis even safe haven assets get tested, meaning they get pressured to the downside. BUT, unlike the stock market and other risk on investments, Gold and other safe haven assets will reverse from the downside and appreciate in price quickly because investors flee risk-on investments, like stocks, and go into safe haven assets like gold.
It is funny that Frank uses emotion and Michael uses facts but Frank calls Michael idolistic
There is such a thing as emotional intelligence, Frank is probably trying to look out for the folks who might be negatively impacted by people like MIchael claiming you should borrow money against everything and buy an already overbought asset.
Frank is realistic !!
After watching this it just ensures me that I need to buy more bitcoin lol
I agree with Frank but I didnt like his approach, trying to insult Michael's intelligence in a few instances.
@@toms8483 Exactly, he tries to denounce Saylors understanding of topics repeatedly. He's trying to discredit Saylor as much as he is trying to discredit Bitcoin. Saylor not playing into this game is perfect.
Bitcoin is limited in quantity?
An infinite number of knockoffs is impossible?
Have we gone insane?
@Laguna Bum Gold supply is unknown. Bitcoin's supply and transaction are Publically shown. Bitcoin is HIGHLY divisible. But let's do a thought experiement... A 10inch pizza is infintely dvisible but it WON'T stop world hunger. Bitcoin is the scarcest known thing in the world.
The reason "gold is always getting seized" is because it's the only chair left, in the cake-walk, when the phony monetary music stops!
Finally something that wasn't a waste of my time. Well Done everyone.
Frank didn't do his homework.
Only thing he had to say is - 'i can't imagine'
Stuck in his paradigm?
His personal attacks to Michel are a misdirection of his lack of understanding on bitcoin's technology.
Well, Bitcoin does require the most Pure Imagination?
More like an evolved mind and tech thinking 🤔
Well said!!
Many people blaming Frank, but all he says makes sense to me. And I’m young. After this debate I just proved to myself that I was right to store wealth in gold
We have Bitcoin ETFs now, so Frank's primary argument has been rendered invalid.
I can't agreed more with Michael Sailor. Bitcoin is here to stay for Eternity. Thank you for sharing.
Frank - “Governments will ban bitcoin”
Governments - “Here is a bitcoin ETF”
The US must be the creators of bitcoin
As long as bitcoin is not banned in all countries around the world, government wont be able to stop it so its better to accept and regulate than being a dictator
Frank talking gleefully about Bitcoin being banned was a little chilling. You could tell he wants it to happen.
@@John-wf5if Don't be so prejudiced. Frank was just telling the Truth.
Gov'ts have the Power to Tax Bitcoin till it no longer threatens Fiat dominance. Spain has 'requested' all Fiscal Residents to provide them with a verified record of every Transaction from 2016-2020. That's just the tip of the Iceberg.
@@akkiokz619 TAX ! Bitcoin will be Taxed upon Purchase & Sale. After this the Capital Gains Tax will have to be paid.
Michael provided a well thought out presentation backed up by facts and figures, and Frank's refutation was to basically call him unsophisticated (stupid,) crazy, and living in a fantasy world. Absolutely cringe worthy! Thanks Daniella for holding it all together!
Totally agree! Now I don’t want to make this personal.... To late Frank it’s all you have done.
I agree Megan. Frank basically admitted defeat as he had no solid facts to back himself up.
Good points on both sides, Giustra is spot on about lack of diversification, social media hype, leverage, and so on. Good reality check for everyone. I think Bitcoin and gold will both continue to be useful. Bitcoin's value will trend upwards over the next 20+ years but continue to be volatile and regularly correct. Gold will continue to be a good store of value. Cryptocurrency is and is not in a bubble - it is in a bubble because a relatively small number of people have put a relatively large amount of capital into it - it is not in a bubble, because over time more and more people will join the cryptocurrency space. More adoption will decrease volatility (again over 20+ years).
Every time Frank mentions anarchy all I can think of is how wonderful it would be to live in a world where no one is your master and no one is your slave. That to me is the beauty and simplicity of ‘anarchy’ and Bitcoin. Won’t stop me from owning a few shiny gold coins though! Great debate.
Ppl will organized into gangs. It’s not a very safe world.
Every day of my life I always regret selling my bitcoins 8yrs ago.
See how much its worth now.
You have to be calm no one ever knew it would get this high.
True you have a point.
°°Cryp=to°° is the future, trading ••cryp=to•• has
become a lucrative way of making money
@@benjamincowen3423 Do you trade by yourself?
If I knew would have exchanged my wife for bitcoins 😁
Amazing debate. Awesome times we're living in to have access to this for free.
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facts homie i love the internet
I totally agree, where else would you get access to this level of knowledge and thought. Cheers 🍻
Indeed
Check out all the free MIT free classes. Blown away
Frank is the man!
THIS is how to have a respectful debate. Very refreshing.