But I doubt the Constitution would disguise itself as a whaling ship, she's vastly too big and her deck cannons at the top would expose her. If she actually would want to beat the Victory, she would have to be bloody invisible. Such as in the fog, :D. (Another reference)
@@carljuvy "If she actually would want to beat the Victory, she would have to be bloody invisible." not necessarily, lets look at both ships HMS Victory displacement is 3500 tons to Constitutions 2200 tons HMS Victory's top speed is 11 knots to Constitution's is 13 knots HMS Victory's cannon range was 400 yards USS Constitution cannons had a maximum effective range of about 1200 yards lets say for the sake of argument you're the captain of the Victory and i'm the captain of Constitution and you're chasing me you're moving at 11 knots so once you're with that 1200 yard range of my guns i slow to 11 knots matching your speed at 11 knots you're not gaining and i'm not pulling away I've been on the Constitution, its only about 5 miles away from where i am now and the captains quarters is in the back on the gun deck so what i would do is take one of the guns, remove the walls and have the crew roll that one 1200 ranged cannon to the center Aft window, secure it and have it set up to fire allowing it to recoil without smashing into anything once that's done i just start shooting at your bow till i can hit it with accuracy, your cannons cant reach me because your cannons only have a range of 400 yards and you're going to have a hell of a time getting one of them to the bow to shoot at my aft where my 1200 yard range cannon is laughing at you.................see where this is going? so what do you do? you either tack port or starboard to get away and i follow suit because now i can hit you with a broadside from all my guns and you still cant fire yours because i'm still out of range and i just might be able to do enough damage after a couple of volley's to stop you dead in the water. than all i have to do is sail around you just out of range firing my guns till you either surrender or slowly sink below the waves the this video shows only the Victory and Constitution, Victory has no other support ship to help it once i start shooting (out of your range) Constitution has the advantage of a 1 on 1 against Victory "Mic drop" Elvis is is leaving the building!
Indeed, but the USS Constitution was built in such a way that made it damn near impenetrable, so if these 2 titans fought each other it would be quite a tough battle for both sides.
Blackadder hahaha good joke mate. Consti fight only vs smaler frigs like Hms Java. Dont you know what cannons got Victory on main deck ? 32 pounders , than 28x24punders. Your consti 24.... And how many cannons per side 50 compare to 27 Crew on consti 400men Victory 850.... First read about stats of both ships than write.
@@blackadder5346 She was simply built in a way such that she had relatively heavy planking for a frigate. While this meant that at longer ranges she could shrug off shot from lighter guns (12-pounders and the like), heavier guns could still pierce her hull with a fair level of consistency.
Lots of silly comments. They're totally different ships. I'm neither British or American so I think I can give a sensible, unbiased point of view. USS Constitution was a frigate and it would never have engaged a British ship of the line. Fact. It was designed to outfight everything it couldn't outrun and outrun everything it couldn't outfight. It reality it never engaged a ship of its own class let alone a first rate. And it never made any difference to the status quo either, the RN controlled the US coastline from New Orleans to New England. The British problem was on the lakes - " If we cannot(control the lakes), then I will do you no good in America" Wellington. Ultimately, the US super frigates made no difference to the naval balance of power. All incidents of frigates taking a broadside from a first, second or third rate show that the frigates were utterly devastated, even 'Old Ironsides' would have suffered such a fate if it had been so engaged. There are examples from history when the Constitution ran away from larger British opponents - quite sensibly too.
I know this is an old comment but the USS Constitution did actively engage ships its size. USS Constitution vs HMS Guerriere both were frigates, the constitution only had a 3 gun advantage on the HMS Guerriere. And to say they made no difference isn't entirely accurate. They literally dominated for the first year or 2 of the way before the Royal Navy could bring its power down upon the new republic. A fight between HMS Victory vs USS Constitution could very easily lead to a US victory because as you pointed out. The Constitution is faster. It is also undoubtedly more maneuverable
@@bigdcd664 HMS Guerriere was French-built and thus had much lighter planking than a typical British-built ship, never mind USS Constitution. It was also only rated for 38 guns, the heaviest of which were the 30ish 18lb long guns. Constitution carried massively more firepower. It wasn't anything like a fair fight- which shows the skill of USS Constitution's crew. Fighting fair means you have a 50% chance of getting beaten after all. I have no qualms about stating USS Constitution was the finest ship of her type in her day- genius design, well built and skilfully handled. But comparing her to HMS Victory is like comparing apples to granite blocks. HMS Victory was a First rate ship-of-the-line. It was designed to stand in the line of battle, absorbing incoming fire and dishing out pain in return and it was supreme in that regard, the aging and maturing of her timbers had made her impressively tough and she outgunned USS Constitution with just her secondary battery. And finally HMS Victory had a succession of some of the best captains the RN produced who were peerless at training their crews. The speed is a point over-played too. USS Constitution could reach 13 knots in deal sailing conditions. HMS Victory regularly reached 11.5 knots and was recorded at 12 knots more than once. That's ideal conditions. If the wind is weaker than ideal then USS Constitution has all the advantages she needs to disengage- doing anything else in the face of a First rate, the the captain would deserve to attend a courts martial for gross negligence and dereliction of duty... Where it would get interesting would be in high wings and heavy seas... A more massive hull with a deeper keel and rudder, higher freeboard and greater stability allowing more cloth to be put on the yards... I suspect the speed and manoeuvrability advantage would swing in HMS Victory's favour. Probably not enough for the visibility conditions, but if some freak event occurred that both ships were in close contact but not engaged and along came a storm...
" the RN controlled the US coastline from New Orleans to New England." only because they had the ships to do it with, Constitution was one of only 6 frigates the US had. of course the British could patrol the whole eastern coast. "Ultimately, the US super frigates made no difference to the naval balance of power. " i we're talking about, not the German navy of the 1940's that when was the last time Argentina had a war at sea?
@@bigdcd664 and the American ships historically could fire every 1 min and 40 seconds, whilst the crews of British and French ships could only fire every 2 mins and 45 seconds, I learned this bye visiting the old iron sides herself, and talking to the crew about it, and she only participated in 33 battles which were all engagements, she did retreat momentarily just to analyze the situation then came back to finish the job, plus she never lost any of her all 33 engagements with the British and there fleet
In real life the HMS Victory would've creamed the Constitution. No frigate captain would ever dare to challenge a ship of the line. I doubt they would've even fought because the captain of the Constitution would've tried to escape. She might be called "Old Ironsides" but her hull couldn't survive against the longer and much stronger and heavier guns of the Victory. And her hulls weren't made of iron, the Constitution used a different wood which was a lot thicker and stronger than the typical wood the British used. Which is why the Guerriere's shot's completely bounced off her.
The hull of the constitution had a bit more than thicker and stronger going for it. The wood had give which let it bounce a bigger ball without throwing splinters. That being said I most certainly would not want to be on the receiving end of a first rate broadside on any ship forget being on a frigate. Even with Gods favor as far as the winds go, a single broadside raking the deck would massacre anyone in sight.
Oshe had over 40 guns. And yes the victory would blast her out of the water if she could keep up with the constittution. Sorry but honestly the constitution still has a very good chance to win shes just to fast.
jeffery frazee Yeah but the thing is about the Victory that it has 104 cannons to put it in the fact the H.M.S Victory is a heavy ass ship as i say it's a floating fortress and cannot move so fast and along with the U.S.S Constitution it's a fast ship that it has 40+ cannons and lies in the Docks of Charlestown Navy Yard and the H.M.S Victory lays in the docks of Portsmouth and i my last words the two ships are an Even Match against each other.
Reece foster In a straight engagement, the Connie would lose. Horribly. She has maybe 0.1% chance to win. The reason, you ask? Simple. Connie had quite a few guns and very good armor, for a frigate (hence, a super frigate). However, the Vic is a 1st rate ship of the line. It has much more armor, more than twice the number of guns, not to mention the fact that she has bigger ones than the Connie. While the Connie may be more maneuverable than the Vic, it would rather quickly find itself in the way of a broadside. And THAT, would be game over. If she doesn't sink outright from a single braodside, she'll be so disabled as to be written off. Then, if the Vic feels like it, one more broadside and a new reef is born. Just to be clear, I'm not british, nor american. I respect both navies of the time, seeing as my country's navy was heavily involved at the time. But there is no debate, the Vic would destroy the Connie. Which is why the Connie would never engage a rated ship in the first place.
Halt Tranty actually the victory has no armor at all except for the thick planking at the waterline and down lol "0.1% chance" yeah..haha...no. more like 10-15% the constitution actually had armor and pretty good size guns for a frigate 25 broadside vs 50 broadside yes, the victory would win but the constitution wouldn't lose horribly lol constitution was armed with 20 32lb carronade and 30 24lb long guns so again no, she wouldn't lose horribly but she would lose.
Sausage is correct - I'm an Aussie, don't care for the US versus UK debate. Victory would have smashed constitution to matchsticks and the captain of the constitution, in that circumstance, would have been fully aware of that fact.The War of Independence was a complex struggle, defined perhaps more by political victories than military ones. And the role of France was critical. France and its allies were a much bigger military conglomerate than Britain and the American colonists really just became another militia in the French Army - which is another way of looking at it. It was the British who were outgunned and outnumbered in the world conflict. In Britain at the time most saw the revolt as a cowardly stab in the back. Britain's main military forces faced Europe. The numbers of troops sent to America tells the story - it was a minor engagement. Britain had more casualties in a single day at Waterloo than it had in the entire campaign in America - It's like comparing the Battle of Mogadishu with the Normandy Landings. Now of course, Britain didn't want to lose America, but there was no real political will to completely brutalise the colony to bring it to heel. In the final analysis though, it probably should be noted that most of the things that made America such a success in the 20th century were inherited from Britain. It's language, it's principles of law, it's love of freedom - these ideas were alive and kicking in Georgian England. The interesting thing about the British Empire is how many imitations it spawned.
Anne Browning. The Constitution was from the war of 1812, not the War of Independence. She was launched in 1797, the Revolutionary War finished in 1783. I agree with the rest of your comment.
I'm just glad to know that despite their ages, both of these ships are still in operational as of 2020 in their respective Navies with the Victory serving as a the UK Navy's flag ship and museum ship and the Constitution serving as a training ship.
How is it unfair? It was the best US ship vs the best British ship. This video demonstrates that the British Royal Navy was much more powerful than the American navy at the time, which is historically true.
Actually its perfectly fair, an American frigate equals a British ship of the line in quality. The admiralty specifically ordered the infamous two to one ratio when engaging American heavy frigates and it wasnt unheard of for the latter to be capable of outsailing an entire enemy fleet. The Constitution took two 6th rates in one night. The Java was the most equal of the duels in which the latter's armament was supplement by crew that was 30% larger than on a prescribed 5th rate.
USMarineRifleman0311 6th rates are smaller than the Constitution (5th rate) which explains why Constitution could fight 1v2. Also, the legend doesn't say all other ships she took were sloops or small ships...
That two to one ratio was only ordered because the people who would have historically had to fight american heavy frigates would only have had sixth rates or other really small ships. That;s like taking the best ten year old martial arts expert in the country and then pitting them up against Bruce Lee, then saying it's a fair fight because the ten year old wins his fights in a 5-1 ratio. The Victory would have turned the Constitution into matchsticks.
The U.S.S Constitution was a ship designed to be as fast as a frigate, yet as durable and menacing as a ship-of-the-line. The U.S.S Constitution can outrun the HMS Victory, and keep up an even fight through firepower. The U.S.S Constitution did not have as many guns, but could compensate with the heavy canister shots that could be fired. Most people thought that the HMS Victory would win by a land slide. However, are you not familiar with the name "Old Ironsides"? The U.S.S Constitution can use it's speed to expose the HMS Victory's lethargy. And thus I close y statement with the U.S.S Constitution should have won., however it is clear that the U.S.S Constitution was not commanded to it's full potential, thus making it the fault of the commander. The U.S.S Constitution was a powerful ship nonetheless and is a much more worthy adversary than the HMS Victory ever could. If you think I am wrong, tell me and I will happily go into further detail to prove my point. If you had not yet recognized my point, it is that the U.S.S Constitution is a much more worthy adversary than the HMS Victory due to it's speed and power. The HMS Victory is a slow ship, it is not meant to destroy it's opponent in a single broadside, rather to endure longer than it's opponents as to assure an easy victory. Again, if you think I am wrong tell me, because I will be more than happy to go into much further detail as to prove my point.
Matt - Kun the hms victory was made to endure a lot. But 52 cannons will be enough to simply tear a ship to shreds, no matter how fast or powerful the enemy ship may be. I can see you know a lot about the USS constitution, but do you know anything about the HMS victory? Also, it is known that the USA constitution had a speed of 13 knots, to the victories 11, which is not that much of a difference considering I have spent a lot of my life on a ship. Also, the hms victory had a fighting force of around 150 to the constitutions 60. The victory would easily be able to overpower the constitutions crew, if they resorted to boarding. Another fact is that British gun crews were among the most well trained and accurate in the whole world, especially after trafalgar. Not many shots would be missing
I guess the British have to go back in time to say there ships are better than the American ships because now they don't lol! American Navy way better!!
In real life one broadside from the Victory would have turned the constitution into matchwood. Victory was a 104 gun first rate of the line Battleship. Constitution was a 44 gun frigate. Constitution did well in the war of 1812 matched with ships her own or lesser size but in all reality if she have ever been unlucky enough to tangle with Victory then there would only have been one winner ... and it wouldn't have been called USS Constitution.
I would have to agree, a full broadside from the HMS Victory would be quite devastating, but the Constitution was legendary for how she would literally shrug off 32 pounder cannon hence the name 'Old Iron Sides'. Also, she would be much faster as the HMS Victory was about 9 knots at top speed and the USS Constitution was about 13 knots at top speed. The best way that you could defeat the Constitution would be by taking out the sails, the ship itself seemed practically unsinkable unless you set it on fire, no enemy has ever breached her hull. It's just good that these 2 legendary ships never fought each other or else one of them wouldn't be around for everyone to enjoy their history today.
I was just trying to say that what they showed here ... Constitution sinking Victory, would never of happened in real life ... even if Victory had had a poor captain.
This video shows USS constitution taking at least 5 full broadsides from victory and staying afloat ... hmmm. It also shows Victory being boarded by the crew of USS constitution which is totally unreal as Victory had a crew of some 900, twice as many as that of USS constitution and after 5 broadsides I doubt if more than half of that crew would have been fit for battle. Let's just call this video a bit of fun !!!
You're right ... a frigate could probably out-tack a first rate and get away just as the much smaller sloops and barques used to out tack the Spanish galleons to stop them getting a broadside away. I could never imagine a frigate getting into close quarters with a much larger ship unless it had no other option.
Its simple really, think of it like this: Its a fight between a lion and a cheetah. In a cage the lion would rip the cheetah apart. But out on the plains of Africa the cheetah would run away and live to fight another day. Aaaah the penny just dropped :D
dave h Dave, the point made in such is that America with it's small fleet adapted the strategy of Pirates in such an age; where you do not engage heavier ships and instead target ships such as Indianmen and smaller boats - which can heavily affect a nation.
The thing I love is this is the fight that USS Constitution was designed to NOT fight. When the ship was designed, the navy spent time considering what type of ship they built. They decided on a heavy frigate. A ship that could outrun and evade the powerful british ships of the line, but with enough firepower to handle a brig or frigate that had the speed to catch her. Unless her captain, was suffering from a random case of shit in the brain, at the first sign of Victorys sails on the horizon he would have turned away and put on full sail.
Back when I was only about 5 or 6 years old and just getting on youtube for the first time, this is the first youtube video I ever remember watching, I am also now a creator and run my own small channel and I owe it all to you and your amazing video. Thank You.
This would have been a slaughter and any frigate captain who engaged a first rate ship of the line (unless he caught the ship by surprise or he knew the captain of the ship of the line was a total idiot) would have been courtmartialed assuming he survived the battle. The only battle I have heard of where a frigate held her own (for a while) against a ship of the line was the USS Randolph under Nicholas Biddle against the 64 gun HMS Yarmouth. Even then, though he caught the Yarmouth by surprise and inflicted serious damage, Biddle's ship was blown to smitherines when a shot from the Yarmouth hit her magazines.
@@grahamedge4349 ye indefatigable and another frigate I forget the name. Might have been amazon or something. Took on a 74 gun 3rd rate called the rights of man (English translation)
As far as I know, Constitution used some unconventional tactics for her time: She had no boarding crew, so her range (water/food) was extended and she was faster because of less weight. And she used two long range guns at the bow following her opponent out of his fire range and running off when he turned to engage thus weakening him long before his first shot. What was common, too, was to heat the cannon balls for the very first shot in hot coal so it would incinerate wood or gunpowder if it came in touch with it. So, the first broadside was the most important one. More so because with it there came the chainshots to clear away the opponent's rigging.
Theres no way the Constitution would have tried to board Victory, as a broadside from Victory, from that range (point blank) would have penetrated even old ironsides hull to devastating effect. Victory could take a full sea battle pounding as she proved, but its doubtful Constitution would have survived even half an hour of that sort of punishment. Victory also out ranged and outgunned Constitution and the best crews/captains of both ships equalled each other out. It would have been like Tyson v Sarah Palin, a non-contest with only one result: bye bye Constitution
Yeah i mean, hms Victory was the strongest warship to sail on all the seven seas during it's time, it had 53 cannons on each broadside. In order to keep her operational they had 800 crew members onboard and when it was made: the british had to cut down 9000 trees in order to get enough wood to build her! So she was and still is a large vessel! Along with the strongest and most dangerous during it's serving time but still... It don't make it obvious that she would win over that other ship because it's all about planning, how the captain controls the ship during the navy battle and... Well the cannons... The cannons was hard to aim with and extremly difflicult to hit a ship right above the water to make a hole and sink it. So it also depended much on the operaters to the cannons. Because hitting a ship on it's deck or sides nowhere near water wasn't enough to disable it. Because the cannon balls never was explosive! So it all depended on the crew during those battles! But then again: Victory would have an adventage since she has three decks with cannons on both sides so she would pack much more fire power and the armor on her would be in good aid to a battle as well but like i said... Mostly the crew the victory or loss lies on. Not the ships themselfs.
Actually, if this battle were to occur, the Constitution would use her tight turning and speed abilities along with good firepower to shell Victory and avoid her broadsides. Once that's over, Victory would be demasted and surrendering, or sinking.
Martin N She wouldn't have to, all Constitution has to do is put some distance from Victory's cannons and when Victory does decide to open fire any cannonballs that do hit will just bounce off. The only way to penetrate Constitution's hull was to shoot at practically point-blank. Constitution can turn on a dime, and has speeds much faster then any Ship of the Line. Victory is a First Rate Ship of the Line, she can turn as tight or sail as fast at Constitution. if Victory was getting too close she could just sail away and turn broadside quicker then Victory could.
TGSNVideos. Wadog Utter balderdash, Victory carried 42 pounders on the lower deck that would have blown the Constitution to shreds, with 700 crew vs 400 they would never stand a chance in an attempt to board. Constitution did very well against the lighter British frigates of the day, but had she faced even a British 74 she would have been very quickly overwhelmed. Oh and as for Constitition escaping Victory. Yes she probably could run away in relatively calm conditions but if there was any kind of sea running she would have very quickly become a British prize.
223Sako Bull, 42 pounders just at mid ranges and farther, again, would just bounce off. All they are is larger cannon balls with more powder loaded in, they would bounce off, whether they're 12 pounders or 42 pounders. No captain in their right mind would board Victory with a Frigate. Like I said, all Constitution would have to do is keep away from Victory and fire. Sooner or later
If these two beasts fought against each other in real life, it'd be a pretty damn close battle. Edit: Looking back on this, I realise my comment was stupid. The USS Constitution was made with speed in mind so that she could flee from ship-of-the-lines such as the HMS Victory. The HMS Victory would win 9 times out of 10.
Dude I highly suggested you to look up on both ships. There are no way in hell that a frigate will ever put up a fight against a first-rated ship of line.
No it wouldn’t, hell the constitution couldn’t even reliably beat British frigates, for example her sister ship the USS President was captured by a smaller British frigate(HMS Endymion) and the Royal navy has had a HMS President on its books ever since as a way to annoy americans
Both commanded by ancestors and I've been on both. I love to game but the average gamer really is ignorant (not speaking of you) of the realities that never make it into a game. This is understandable. Its a game but EVEN in a game I would never fight a 1st rate in a frigate unless it were possible to rake her to death. John Paul Jones performed such a clinic once driving an British SOL captain to distraction with a ship with no more than 16 small guns. An intelligent captain like Jones would NEVER do otherwise or allow himself to take a broadside one of which would have sent his little command to the bottom.
The Victory fired a broadside of 52 guns firing a total weight of shot of 1.25 tons which exceeded the entire firepower of both of Constitution's broadsides combined. She also carried larger guns overall. She had 15x32lb guns on each broadside. That's sufficient on its own to shred a frigate. As for boarding, the Victory had 3 or 4 times as many crew. No frigate captain would have laid his ship alongside a 1st rate ship-of-the-line and its unlikely that Constitution would have been able to inflict more than trivial damage before being torn apart.
I'm an American and a military veteran. This was a good video. The constitution was not able to be sunk because of the way it was constructed, thus being it's nick name "old iron sides" however, disabling the constitution's sails and boarding it take it's crew would be the only way to take her. That is what was shown in the video. This video is a frictional video because old iron sides was never lost. I liked the video.
+Pancer's Cloud true, but I was referring to their firepower and durability since the HMS victory had significantly more guns and had a thicker hull, I mean in terms of fire power and durability it would go to the tiger 2 with its 105 mm gun or even the early models with the 88mm it still outmatched the shermans 76mm and armor wise the tiger 2 had 185mm at the front whereas the sherman had only less than a 100
Maybe the recorded reactions of Sherman crews faced with any iteration of Tiger is the best testimony. Read "Steel Coffins" (I think that is correct). The enlightenment to be found there is wonderful and its a good read. Have fun!
That was technically unfair, because that HMS Victory had WAY more cannons then the USS Consitution in that video. And honestly, it didn't stand a chance.
More guns was not the issue. Nimble avoidance of Victory's broadside and raking her were the way to go if you HAD to fight. Constitution outfought and defeated 4 British frigates in the 1812. On another occasion she simultaneously outran and out foxed 4-5 British frigates. The conclusion here was far from forgone. The truth was that the Royal Navy was in quite the dither over how to catch and fight the big American 44s (and Constitution mounted in excess of 50 guns.
+MasklessSpy Not only on that video but in real life too...HMS Victory was a slowly giant firing machine.....but the USS constitution was a speedy shooter that earned her "warname"... and it was because of the ship´s speed and firepower that the frigate was the election ship of pirates
+George King More guns were ~exactly~ the issue. USS Constitution had more and heavier guns than any of the ships she defeated. During the war of 1811, she was armed with 30 24-pounder cannons and typically 20 32-pounder carronades. HMS Guerriere was armed with 30 18-pounder cannons and 20 32-pounder carronades. Constitution was also larger and heavier than Guerrierre. HMS Java had 28 18-pounder cannons and 20 32 pounder carronades. HMS Leander was armed solely with 20 32-pounder carronades and displacing only about 450 tons, she was a very small frigate. After the British recaptured her, she was reclassed as a sloop-of-war. HMS Cyane I have no hard data on, but she is described as comparable with Leander. So it would seem to me that guns and size matters quite a lot! No frigate, Constitution or otherwise, would have the slightest chance against a 100 cannon first rate. It's a prepostorous idea. Do you think a WW2 light cruiser would stand a chance against USS Iowa? It would not and likewise Constitution would only have one chance against Victory: Run like hell!
If it was real the HMS Victory would have been with an entire fleet, an even smaller ship than the Constitution would have been sent to get it's attention, pretend to run away and lead it to the fleet and then it would get obliterated .
I don't get it why people whine here about that this is an "unfair battle", because actually, it isn't. Yes, Victory has much more guns and double the size, but Constitution is much more faster, thanks to it's small size. Constitution can easily escape from Victory but Victory can easily shoot Constitution down if it is in range.
That's true, but if both ships are approaching facing each other the really only weak spot on the victory was her stern. To get to the stern the Constitution would one way or another put itself in range of the victory's broadside guns. Even one pass of the victory's gun's could have de-masted her and that would have been the end of the constitution leaving her a sitting duck for the victory to pick apart.
Actually this battle would've been very easy for the USS Constitution to win. Simple thing: keep out of penetration range and shell HMS Victory, and eventually Constitution would've hit a power storage area or one of it's masts or kill too many British Crewmen and boom, bye bye Victory. Simple concept: If your ship can't be damaged and you can damage theirs, you win.
TGSNVideos. Wadog The Victory has longer range guns than the Constitution. The Victory can constantly have her broadside guns facing the constitution forcing a stalemate or forcing the constitution to move in and attack, Victory wins 9/10. It's not about the speed of the ship it's about the turn rate and with minimal sails the Victory can go toe to toe with the constitution in turning rate, there might be a 2-4 second window where they are both turning and once that turning time is over the Victory will unleash a broadside that will rip the constitution to shreds.
T1JumpTIX All Constitution really has to do is attack from it's max range at full sail circling Victory, and when Victory fires back, because of Constitution's hull, the cannonballs would've bounced off. and eventually Victory would've had a powder magazine hit and exploded causing fires and possibly a small chain reaction, resulting in heavy damage to Victory. In the end, Constitution would've suffered a good lot of damage and causalities but Victory would be badly damaged and most likely on fire either retreating, surrendering, or sinking.
***** No, it's the truth. Constitution wouldn't have to avoid the broadsides, just be far enough away when Victory fires so the shots that do hit bounce off. The only way at those ranges is to get a lucky short though the stern and hit a powder magizine.
Rules of engagement of that time would normally prevent this, given the disparity in firepower; a frigate post-captain would not engage a first-rate, and in return, the first-rate would go after bigger ships only; if by chance the frigate actually engaged a first-rate, it would be considered a valid target and as so fired upon;
Explain why a frigate would engage a first rate? Constitution would have run...and did run at times in the War of 1812, to save her life and fight another day. That being said, given her construction it is not inconceivable she could tackle a 3rd or 4th rate. There are examples. Constitution was rated at 44 guns but carried over 50 and was constructed very strongly.
I apologize in advance because this is quite long. I appreciate that my fellow Americans are enthusiastic about USS Constitution's ability to fight, but it is unrealistic. There is a reason that frigates, even the U.S. super frigates, never engaged a ship of the line. In fact, they were designed to not have to! First and second rate ships were so powerful that the British wouldn't even include third rates, not to mention frigates, in a line of battle by the time of Trafalgar (1805). The approximate weight of cannon broadsides (one side only) for the two vessels is - Constitution: 360 lbs in 1808 and Victory: 1,080 lbs in 1805. I chose 1808 for Constitution and 1805 for Victory to be roughly contemporary and I did not include carronades because Old Ironsides could never get close enough to use them. It is marginally more equal if you compare the 100%-cannon (i.e. no carronades) configuration that each ship used at the times of their commissioning. In those configurations, Victory outguns Constitution 1,182 lbs to 456 lbs. If you also consider that the 32 pounder cannon carried by Victory had significantly longer range than the 24 pounders carried by Constitution, Victory has even more of an advantage. Victory had the same number of 32 pounders that Constitution had in total cannon (i.e. 30). The 42 pounders carried in lieu of 32 pounders by Victory at commissioning probably had even more range. All of this assumes captains of equal ability, but the only chance Old Ironsides would have is if she could use her speed and maneuverability to repeatedly rake Victory, which is not at all likely. She'd lose badly.
Bellau Wood saved the USMC from being disbanded due to the budget of the USN after WW1. Zeebrugge and the Royal Marine mutiny of 1919 disbanded a few battalions at Murmansk. US Marine batteries at both Baltimore and Craney Island checked landings of the Royal Marines and threw them back into the Atlantic. There are countless examples of boarding parties of USM's making the RMs strike the white flag. Connie had up to 6 detachments of RMs in her hold during the 3 yr war.
Britain decided to leave her man of wars in Europe to deal with Napoleon. Had the full might of the Royal Navy turned up at the US east coast Britain would have had an even bigger victory than the victory achieved in real life.
Not really. The decisive theaters were all on the Great Lakes where the ships of the line could not sail down the St Lawrence and be of any use. Only the HMS St Lawrence presented a threat and she was dismasted by a lightning strike late in the war at a time Sackets Harbor was churning out 60 gun frigates and had a 100+ ship of the line on the docks for 1815. A whole line of 2 deckers was being built up and down the east coast that were ready for the 2nd Barbary War that just followed the War of 1812.
With regards to commanders. A Collingwood or Admiral of his quality would have greatly evened the field with regards to the greatlakes. At open sea, British man of wars would have been more than a sufficive challenge to the US frigates than the relativley even battles than ensued there with the British frigates.
USMarineRifleman0311 actually the St Lawrence at 110 guns was fully operational. A lightning strike in those days did not put a ship out action for long. The Americans were building two first rates at Sackets (there is a lot of dispute about the number of guns). but the British were also building two more first rates with slightly more guns than St Lawrence. The British plan for building frigates was much larger than the American one for 1815 which was surprisingly small. With the French out of the war the British were able to bring ships up to Quebec and then take the stores guns and crews further up to the lakes. The British were also building prefab frigates in England for shipment to the lakes. Another thing that had changed was that the Americans had been able to bring experienced seamen from their blockaded fleet on the coast which had been a major advantage against the Provincial marines mixture of militia and soldiers to crew their ships in the battles on the lakes. This was about to change. There was even a 44 being built on Georgian Bay. In addition the British could finally field a bigger army on the border than the Americans rather always being out numbered. This would mean Sackets itself would be under threat. Until then they had always been heavily outnumbered. It would be extremely unlikely the Americans could out build the British. The American government was running out funds, deeply in debt and had no where close to the British industrial capacity or wealth. With the end of the French the British would normally lay up ships instead they would be sent to supply the lakes.
Wars won by the US fighting on its own American War of Independence = US/French Victory Northwest Indian War = US Victory Quasi War = US Victory Barbary Wars = US Victory Creek War = US Victory War of 1812 = US Victory Peoria War = US Victory Seminole Wars = US Victory Black Hawk War = US Victory Texas Revolution = Texan/US Victory Mexican-American War = US Victory American Civil War = US (Union) Victory American Indian Wars = US Victory Spanish-American War = US Victory Philippine-American War = US Victory World War One = US/Allied Victory World War Two = US/Allied Victory (Accredited for solely defeating Japan, and to a smaller extent Germany and Italy) Korean War = US/Allied Victory Cambodian Campaign = US Victory Invasion of the Dominican Republic = US Victory Invasion of Grenada = US Victory Invasion of Panama = US Victory Cold War = US/NATO Victory First Persian Gulf War/Desert Storm = US/Allied Victory War in Somalia = US Victory Iraq War = US/Allied Victory Wars lost by Great Britain/England 1st Anglo Maratha War Napoleonic Wars 1st Coalition 2nd Coalition 3rd Coalition 4th Coalition 5th Coalition Pontiacs Rebellion 1763 British invasions of the Río de la Plata Palestine 1948 Suez 1951 Greece 1948 Iraq 2007 (total withdrawal from Basrah) Aden Emergency 1967 Cypres Emergency 1959 Turkish War of Independence 1923 Anglo Turk War 1805 Russian Intervention 1920 Aroostock War Pig War 1st Anglo Ashanti War 3rd Anglo Afghan war First Anglo-Mysore War First Anglo-Maratha War American Revolutionary War AngloSpanish war of 1770s 2nd Anglo Dutch War 3rd Anglo Dutch War War in the Vendée First Anglo-Afghan War -1919 Afghanistan: -1880 Afghanistan -1878 Afghanistan -1842 Afghanistan -1840 Afghanistan First Boer War Roman Conquest AD 43 Norman Conquest 1066 Hundred Years War 1337-1453 American victories over the British 1775-1783 April 19, 1775 Lexington and Concord March 17, 1776 Siege of Boston May 27-28, 1775 Chelsea Creek June 11-12, 1775 Battle of Machias August 9, 1775 Battle of Gloucester March 4 1776 Dorchester Heights May 10 1775 Capture of Ft. Ticonderoga November 3 1775 Siege of Ft. Jean March 25 1776 Battle of St Pierre September 16 1776 Battle of Harlem Heights December 23 1776 Battle of Iron works Hill December 26 1776 Battle of Trenton January 2 1777 Battle of Assuninpink Creek Januard 3 1777 Battle of Princeton Jan-March 1777 Forage War - NJ January 20 1777 Battle of Millstone August 22 1777 Battle of Ft. Stanwix August 6 1777 Battle of Oriskany August 16 1777 Battle of Bennington October 1777 Saratoga campaign June 26 1777 Battle of Short Hills October 22 1777 Battle of Red Bank December 8 1777 Battle of White Marsh November 25 1777 Battle of Gloucester June 28 1778 Battle of Monmouth September 7-18, 1778 Siege of Boonesborough July 1778 - February 1779 Kaskasia Vincennes August 8, 1780 Battle of Piqua April 1781 Choscoton August 29 1779 Battle of Newtown October 19 1780 Battle of Klock's Field October 25 1781 Battle of Johnstown November-December 1775 - Southern patriot "Snow Campaign" December 9 1775 Battle of the Great Bridge February 27 1776 Battle of the Creek Bridge March 2-3 1776 Battle of the Rice Boats June 28 1776 Battle of Sullivan's Island July 15 1776 Battle of Lindley's Fort April 18 1776 Frederica February 3 1779 Battle of Beaufort February 14 1779 Battle of Kettle Creek June 8 1780 Battle of Mobley's Meeting House June 20 1780 Battle of Ramsour's Mill July 12 1780 Battle of Williamson's Plantation July 21 1780 Battle of Colson's Mill August 6 1780 Battle of Hanging Rock August 18 1780 Battle of Musgrove Hill September 21 1780 Battle of Wahab's Plantation September 14 1780 Battle of the Black Mingo September 26 1780 Battle of Charlotte October 7 1780 Battle of Kingsmountain October 14 1780 Battle of Shallow Ford November 9 1780 Battle of Fishdam Ford November 20 1780 Battle of Blackstock Farm January 17 1781 Battle of the Cowpens February 25 1781 Battle of Haw River April 23 1781 Battle of Ft Watson April 25 1781 Battle of Hobkirk's Hill May 12 1781 Siege of Ft Motte June 6 1781 Augusta September 8 1781 Eutaw springs 25 February 1779 Vincennes September 13 1782 2nd Siege of Ft Henry September 10 1779 Battle of Lake Pontchartrain March 3 1776 Capture of Nassau March 24 1778 Capture of the HMS Drake September 23 1779 Capture of the HMS Serapis June 29 1776 Battle of Turtle Gut Inlet September 8 1781 Captureof the HMS Savage May 29 1781 Capture of the HMS Atalanta May 29 1781 Capture of the HMS Trepassey March 6 1783 USS Alliance defeats HMS Sybil April 8 1782 Battle of Delaware Bay July 1 1782 Raid on Nova Scotia March 8 1781 Skirmish at Water's Creek July 9 1781 Franciso beats Tarleton July 24 1781 Francisco beats Tarleton October 19, 1781 Yorktown American victories over the British in 1812-14 19 July 1812 1st Sackets 21 Sept 1812 Raid on Gananoque 7 Feb 1813 Raid on Elizabethtown 27 Apr 1813 1st burning of York 31 July 1813 2nd burning of York 28-29 May 1813 2nd Sackets May 29 1813 Big Sandy Creek June 1 1813 US repulse of Royal Marine raid north of Sackets 6-11 Sept 1814 Plattsburgh 28 Nov 1812 Frenchman's Creek 25-27 May 1813 Capture of Ft George 14-16 May 1814 Raid on Port Dover 3 July 1814 Capture of Fort Erie 5 July 1814 Chippewa Aug-Sept 1814 Siege of Fort Erie 5-15 Sept 1812 Siege of Ft Harrison 5-12 Sept 1812 Siege of Ft Wayne 17-18 Dec 1812 Mississinewa 28 Apr-9May 1813 Siege of Ft Meigs 2 Aug 1813 Ft Stephenson 10 Sept 1813 Victory on Lake Erie 5 Oct 1813 Thames 4 March 1814 Longwoods 29 April 1813 Elk's Landing 6 Nov 1814 Malcom's Mills 22 June 1813 Craney Island 10 August 1813 St Michaels 12 Sept 1814 North Point 31 Aug 1814 Caulk's Field 12-15 Sept 1814 Baltimore 1814 Battle of Rock Harbor - HMS Newcastle party thrown back 6 Dec 1814 Farnham church 7-9 Nov 1814 Pensacola 14-16 Sept 1814 1st Ft Bowyer 13 Dec 1814 - Jackson's probe 8 Jan 1815 New Orleans 9-18 Jan 1815 Ft St Phillip 13 Aug 1812 capture of the Alert 19 Aug 1812 capture of the Guerriere 18 Oct 1812 capture of the Frolic 25 Oct 1812 capture of the Macedonian 29 Dec 1812 capture of the Java 24 Feb 1813 sinking of the Peacock 5 Aug 1813 capture of the Dominica 5 Sept 1813 capture of the Boxer 28 Apr 1814 capture of the Epervier 28 Jun 1814 sinking of the Reindeer 1 Sept 1814 sinking of the Avon 20 Feb 1815 capture of the Levant 20 Feb 1815 capture of the Cyane 23 Mar 1815 capture of the Penguin 11 Dec 1812 capture of the Rachel 25 Mar 1813 privateer Nereyda captured 28 Mar 1813 whaler Barclay 29-Apr - 15 Sep 1813 armed whaler Montezuma Georgiana captured Policy captured Atlantic captured armed whaler Greenwich captured Catherine captured whaler Rose whaler Hector armed privateer Seringapatam Charlton New Zealander whaler Sir Andrew Hammond October 8-11 1813 US raids - Twenty Mile Creek November 26 1813 repeat US raid Twenty Mile Creek September 20 1814 US raids settlements in the Western District July 31-August 1 1813 US re-raids York, burns barracks August 28 1813 British ships detect US raiding party at York, British flee to Burlington October 27 1813 US raid on Frelighsburg October 12 1813 US raid in Missisiquoi Bay October 20 1812 US raid on Odelltown September 20 1813 US skirmishes at Odelltown August 10 1814 officer captured in Odelltown during skirmish October 11-13 1813 US raids in Philippsburg, Mississiquoi bay area January 22 1814 US raids Philippsburg March 22 1814 US captures and occupies Philippsburg October 23 1812 US attacks captures St Regis and 28 guns (artillery) October 4 1812 British revenge attack for Gananoque is repulsed June 26 1813 US repulse of British attack at Pagan Creek July 2 1813 repeat British attack at Pagan creek repulsed March 18 1813 US capture of RN seamen June 10 1813 US repulse of British landing on island on the York river June 22 1813 US repulses landing at Wise Creek July 31 1812 US privateer captures Royal Bounty off Newfoundland September 23 1813 British withdraw from Fort Malden- subsequent US recapture September 29, 1813 recapture of Fort Shelby December 20 1813 US raid at Arnolds Mill July 26 1814 US destroys Burch's Mills May 14-16 1814 US raids at Charlotteville July 25 1814 US raids Charlotteville July 7th 1813 US victory at Butler's Farm (Niagara) July 29 1813 US burns the King George Inn at Burlington October 19 1814 US burns Cook's Mills, destroys 200 bushels of wheat October 6 1813 US captures 6 British schooners in troop convoy - False Ducks August 20-September 6 1814 skirmishes around Fort Erie October 9 1812 US destroys MP brig Detroit, captures PM brig Caledonia December 10 1813 - burning of Newark July 1814, British withdraw from Ft St Joseph, US moves in and burns it, captures schooner November 7 1813 British failure to stop US flotilla at Fort Wellington March 4 1814 US repulse of British attack at De French River October 21 1812 US raid on Gray's Mills November 10 1813 US wins skirmish at Hoople's Creek November 10 1812 Burlington Races August 10-31 1814 Burlington is blockaded May 10 1813 US party overcomes guards, burns supply building - Lake Ontario US schooner Lady of the Lakes captures Lady Murray June 16 1813 US boats capture HM gunboat Blacksnake June 19 1813 May 14-15 1814 US raids Long Point November 6 1814 US raids Malcom's Mills October 7 1813 US burns Moraviantown June 27 1814 US burns newly finished schooner at New Castle December 10 1813 US burns Newark and St David May 28 1813 The British evacuates all posts on the Niagara river August 14 1814 US squadron destroys blockhouse and HM schoon Nancy on the Nottawasaga April 5 1814 US raid on Oxford May 14-15 1814 US raids at Patterson's Creek May 14-15 1814 US raids and burns Dover and Port Ryerse February 1814 US raid on Port Talbot - burned and never rebuilt May 19 1814 US raid on Port Talbot July 20 1814 US raid on Port Talbot August 16 1814 US raid on Port Talbot September 20 1814 US raid on Port Talbot May 26 1813 US seizes British post at Queenston December 11 1813 US burns parts of Queenston July 7 1814 US occupies Queenston July 18 1814 2 US gunboats capture 15 British supply boats and rebel counterattack Rockport July 5 1812 US bombs Windsor July 12 1812 US invades burns Sandwich September 29 1813 US occupies Sandwich, British flee a second time July 21 1814 US burns NW Co Trading Post, captured merchantman Sault Ste Marie July 18 1814 US burns St David July 22 1814 US repulses counterattack at St David July 27 1812 US schoon Julia drives of PM schoons Moira and Gloucester July 31 1812 3 US gigs capture British vessel of the PM RC St Lawrence November 17 1814 US captures 2 gunboats St Lawrence September 14 1813 US raids Sugar Loaf October 2 1813 British fail in the attempt to destroy a bridges on the Thames October 5 1813 US captures British supply boats on the Thames July 9 1814 US skirmish at Thames river January 31 1814 US skirmish captures British detachment October 23-November 16 1814 McArthur's raids in the Thames Valley July-August 1812 privateer Rosie captures Princess Royal, Kitty, Fame, Devonshire, Squid, Brothers, Henry, Race-horse, Halifax, William, Two Brothers, and Jeanie off Nova Scotia June 18 1813 US barges repulse British attempt to take sloops James river June 22 1813 British feint at Lynnhaven Bay repulsed December 1813 US repulses British landing party at Lynnhaven bay December 30 1813 US repulse of British attempt to salvage grounded schooner, Lynnhaven June 30 1812 US captures schooner Witing June 20 1813 US flotilla repulses frigate Junon Norfolk January 18 1814 US repulse of British attempt to burn schooner Rappahannock River August 6 1814 US repulse of British landing Rappahannock River July 26 1814 US repulse of British raid Lawnes Creek June 20 1813 US repulses British attack on Ft Oswego June 19 2013 US repulse of British raid at Sodus Point September 1813 New Inlet, NC, US captures crewmen from the privateer Mars February 1815 US capture of British tender at Ocracoke Bar July 1814 US capture of raiding party from HM brig Lacedemonian S of Wilmington NC July 18 1813 US privateers capture 15 bateuax and the gunboat Spitfire (1000 Islands) July 21 1813 US privateers repulse British landing (1000 Islands) July 27 1813 British attempt to capture same US privateers (Cape Vincent) April 25 1814 British attempt to burn the frigate Superior is repulsed July 2 1813 Small British force lands at Sackets Harbor but withdraws after detection June 28 1814 - spars destined for the frigate Confiance captured enroute August 3 1814 British attempt to take Buffalo NY is repulsed June 14-15 1814 Port Charlotte US repulses raid May 30 1812 US seizes and destroys Fort Haldimand May 22 1815 US reoccupies Fort Niagara November 1-2 1813 British naval attack on French creek is driven off with hot shot April 29 1813 US repulse of landing at Elkton July 20 1813 US captures large convoy of bateaux July 12 1814 US repulse of repeat attempt at Elkton September 14 1814 US repulse of landing at Fort Babcock October 31 1814 US repulse of British attack at Kirby's Wind Mill February 7 1815 capture of sloop Dauntless June 14 1814 HMS Nimrod is driven off and landing aborted June 5 1812 brig Oneida captures PM schooner Lord Nelson November 10 1812 Growler captures Elizabeth August 5 1814 Sylph drives off HMS Magnet, forces it aground (Ontario) October 6 1813 US capture of 7 British transports August 9 1812 attempted British attack on US supply train is repulsed March 18 1814 US raids at Cockerel creek June 3 1813 US repulse of British raid Harris Creek May 12 1813 US repulse of British landing Horn Harbor - Mobjack bay Aprill 11 1813 US RC Thomas Jefferson captures 3 barges and take 69 POWs March 1813 US raid Craney Island June 2 1813 US repulse of British raid at Harris Creek October 4-5 1814 US raid on Northumberland Courthouse April 4 1813 US repulse of British landing Chewning Point Carter Creek May 14 1814 US repulse of British attempt to destroy shipping Vergennes (Otter Creek) June 2-3 1813 US repulse of British raid Blake River February 11 1813 British lose skirmish at Cape Henry July 14 1813 US attack and capture of British landing party March 10 1813 US repulse of British raid Cape Charles August 2 1813 US repulse of HM sloops Broke and Shannon at Burlington July 31 1813 British 3 day cannonade is driven off by return American fire - Burlington May 14 1812 US cannonade of Fort Cassin October 12 1813 US attack and capture of British garrisson at Missisquoi October 4 1813 USRC Vigilant captures Dart off Block Island September 25 1813 US repulse of Indian/British/Canadian attack at Miami rapids August 2 1813 US repulse of British attack at Fort Stephenson July 29 1812 US gunboats attack HMS Junon (frigate aground) October 23 1812 US captures British post at French Mills July 11 1813 US drives off attackers on Fort Schlossler June 26 1812 US captures Carleton Island on the St Lawrence June 3 1813 Gunboats drive off british sloop Herald out of Mobile Bay April 8 1814 US booby trap kills 11 in New London August 9 1814 Ineffectual British cannonade at Stonginton 29 June 1812 US gunboats capture 3 British merchant ships off Spanish Florida February 24 1815 American ambush British troops at St Mary's River Januar 25 1815 Barataria Island skirmish December 8 1814 US gunboats force retreat of HM frigate Armide January 1 1815 US artillery duel with Royal Artillery French victories over the British 1745-1815 May 1745 Fontenoy French victory - Oct 1746 Roucoux French victory - July 1747 Lauffeldt French victory - Nov 1747 Berge-op-Zoom French victory - 1748 Maastricht French victory - July 1754 Fort Necessity French Victory July 1755 Monongahela River French Victory Aug 1756 Oswego French victory - July 1757 Hastenbeck French victory - Aug 1757 Fort William Henry French victory - Jul 1758 Ticonderoga French victory - Oct 1781 Yorktown American-French victory - Aug-Dec 1793 Toulon French victory 6-8 Sep 1793 Hondeschoote French victory - 17-18 May 1794 Tourcoing French victory - 22 Aug 1798 Killala Bay French victory - 27 Aug 1798 Castlebar French victory - 5 Sep 1798 Callooney French victory - 8 Sep 1798 Ballinamuck French victory - 19 Sep 1799 Bergen Op Zoom French victory - 6 Oct 1799 Casstricum French victory - 16 Jan 1809 Coruna French victory - 27 June 1809 Casa de Salinas French victory - July-Dec 1809 Walcheren French victory - 16-24 May 1810 Siege of Mequinenza French victory - 10 July 1810 Barquilla French victory - 24 July 1810 Coa River French victory 11 Aug 1810 Villagarcia French victory - 13 Oct 1810 Fuengirola Polish-French victory - April-May 1811 Blockade of Almeida French victory - April-May 1811 2nd Siege of Badajoz French victory - 5 May 1811 Fuentes de Onoro French May-June 1811 3rd Siege of Badajoz French victory - June 1811 Operations around Almeida French victory - 22 June 1811 Elvas French victory - 25 Sep 1811 El Bodon French victory. 29 Dec 1811 Membrillo French victory - 11 April 1812 Villagarcia French victory - 11 June 1812 Maguilla French victory - 18 July 1812 Castrejon French victory - 11 Aug 1812 Malajahonda French victory - Sep-Oct 1812 Siege of Burgos French victory. 23 Oct 1812 Venta del Pozo French victory - 25 Oct 1812 Villa Muriel French victory - 28 Oct 1812 Tordesillas French victory - 17 Nov 1812 San Munoz French victory - June 1813 Siege of Tarragona French victory - 24 June 1813 Villafranca French victory - 25 July 1813 Roncesvalles French victory - 25 July 1813 Maya French victory - July-Aug 1813 Siege of San Sebastian French-Alliesvictory - 26-28 July 1813 Sorauren French-Allies victory - July-Aug 1813 Blockade of Tarragona French victory - 2 Aug 1813 Lizaso French victory - Ordal and Villafranca French victory - 7 Oct 1813 Vera French victory - 16 Jan 1814 Molins de Rey French victory - Feb-April 1814 Siege of Bayonne French victory - 8 March 1814 Bergen op Zoom French victory - 17 March 1814 Daunia's Raid French victory - 19 March 1814 Vic-Bigorre French victory - 10 April 1814 Toulouse draw 14 April 1814 Bayonne French victory - 16 June 1815 Quatre Bras draw ? victory ? 17 June 1815 Genappe French victory - Turkish victories over the British Anglo-Turkish War (1807-1809) Gallipoli 1915 Al Kut 1915 Dujaila 1916 Hanna 1916 Wadi 1916 Sheikh Sa'ad 1916 Ctesiphon 1915 Katia 1916 Gaza 1917 2nd Gaza 1917 Bir el Abb 1916 Jordan 1918 Transjordan 1918 Krithia 1915 2nd Krithia 1915 3rd Krithia 1915 4th Krithia 1915 Cape Hellis 1915 Anzac Cove 1915 Nr. 3 Post 1915 Suvla 1915 Sari Bair 1915 The Nek 1915 Chunuk Bair 1915 Scimitar Hill 1915 Boer Victories over the British Battle of Bronkhorstspruit -20 December 1880 Siege of Rustenburg 27 December 1880-30 March 1881 Siege of Marabastad 1 January 1880-2 April 1881 Siege of Lydenburg 6 January 1881 - 30 March 1881 Battle of Laing's Nek 28 January 1881 Battle of Schuinshoogte 8 February 1881 Kraipaan October 1899 Ladysmith 30 October 1899 Stormberg 10 December 1899 Magersfontein 11 December 1899 Colenso December 1899 Spion Kopp January 1900 Vaal Krantz February 1900 Bloody Sunday February 1900 Sanna's Post March 1900 Leliefontein November 1900 Mooietegedacht December 1900 Elands River September 1901 Blood River Port September 1901 Bakenlaagte October 1901 Groenkop December 1901 Tweebosch March 1902 Japanese Victories over the British Dec 1941 - Malaya Dec 1941 - Singapore Dec 1941 - Op. Krohcol Dec 1941 - HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse are sunk Dec 1941 - Jitra Dec 1941 - Gurun Jan 1942 - Slim River Jan 1942 - Muar Jan 1942- Endau Feb 1942 - Sarimbun Beach Feb 1942 - Kranji Feb 1942 - Bukit Timah Feb 1942 - Pasir Panjang -at this point: 60,500 casualties/40,000 POW Feb 1942 - Bilin River Feb 1942 - Sittang Bridge March 1942 - Prome May 1943 - Arakan - 5,000 KIA/WIA Surrender of Singapore - 120,000 POW -largest British garrison in the world at the time, larger than London Surrender of Hong Kong - 15,000 POW German victories over the British WW1 23 August 1914 - Battle of Mons - 250 mile retreat from Belgium 26 August 1914 - Battle of Le Cateau 26 August 1914 - Battle of Le Grand Fayt 27 August 1914 - Battle of Étreux 28 September - 10 October 1914 - Siege of Antwerp Wednesday 21 April - 25 May 1915 - Second Battle of Ypres - 70,000 casualties 9 May - 18 June 1915 - Second Battle of Artois - 28,000 casualties 9 May 1915 - Battle of Aubers Ridge 15-25 May 1915 - Battle of Festubert 25 September - 4 November 1915 - Third Battle of Artois - 60,000 casualties 25 September - 14 October 1915 - Battle of Loos - 60,000 casualties 1 July - 18 November 1916 - Battle of the Somme - 620,000 casualties 1-13 July 1916 - Battle of Alberty - 57,000 casualties 1st day 19-20 July 1916 - Battle of Fromelles 25 September 1916 - Capture of Lesbœufs 7 October - 16 November 1916 - Butte de Warlencourt 9 October 1917 - Battle of Poelcappelle 12 October 1917 - First Battle of Passchendaele 21 March - 5 April 1918 - Operation Michael - 177,000 casualties - retreat starts 7-29 April 1918 - Battle of the Lys German/Axis defeats inflicted onto the British in Africa, at sea or elsewhere (WW1): 27-29 April 1916 - gassed their own troops at Hulluch 29 - 31 August 1914 - First Battle of Garua 6 September 1914 - Battle of Nsanakong 1 May - late June 1915 -First Battle of Jaunde 26 September 1914 -Battle of Sandfontein 20 September 1914 - Battle of Zanzibar November 3, 1914 -Battle of Kilimanjaro 3-5 November 1914 - Battle of Tanga 18-19 January 1915 - Battle of Jassin February 12, 1916 - Battle of Salaita 9-11 September 1916 - Battle of Dutumi 7-11 September 1916 - Battle of Kisaki 3-4 January 1917 - Battle of Behobeho 15-18 October 1917 - Battle of Mahiwa 25 November 1917 - Battle of Ngomano 3-5 November 1914 - Battle of Tanga 16 January 1916 - Action of 16 January 1916 10 March 1917 - Action of 10 March 1917 22 September 1914 - Bombardment of Madras 22 September 1914 - Bombardment of Papeete 1 November 1914 - Battle of Coronel 7 September, 1914 - Fanning Raid 16 December 1914 - Raids on Scarborough, Hartlepool and Whitby 22 September 1914 - The Action of 22 September 1914 10 February 1916 - Battle of Dogger Bank 24 April 1916 - Bombardment of Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft 26-27 October 1916 - Battle of Dover Strait (1916) 17 October 1917 - Action off Lerwick 23 April 1918 - Zeebrugge Raid - 600 Royal Marine casualties 23-24 April 1918 - First Ostend Raid 9 May 1918 - Second Ostend Raid 28 July-10 August 1914 - Naval Pursuit of Goeben and Breslau 19 February - 18 March 1915 - Naval Operations in the Dardanelles Campaign 14-15 May 1917 - Battle of the Strait of Otranto German victories over the British - WW2 18 December 1939 - Battle of the Heligoland Bight 22-26 May 1940 - Siege of Calais - 4,000 POW 21 May 1940 - Battle of Arras 22-25 May 1940 -Battle of Boulogne 28 May - 4 June 1940 - Battle of Abbeville 26 May-4 June 1940 - Battle of Dunkirk - 40,000 POW 17 November 1940 - Operation White 27 November 1940 - Battle of Cape Spartivento 9-16 September 1940 - Italian invasion of Egypt 3-19 August 1940 - Italians take British Somaliland 25-28 February 1941 - Operation Abstention 26 March 1941 - Sinking of HMS York 26-27 May 1941 - Operation Skorpion 15-17 June 1941 - Operation Battleaxe - 100 tanks lost 10-18 November 1941 - Operation Flipper 17 December 1941 - First Battle of Sirte 19 December 1941 - Raid on Alexandria 24-25 April 1941 - Battle of Thermopylae 13 April 1941 -Battle of Ptolemaida 11-12 April 1941 - Battle of Vevi 20 May 1941 - 1 June 1941 - Surrender of Crete 17,000 POW 9-12 September 1941 - Convoy SC 42 5-10 August 1942 - Convoy SC 94 29 October-4 November 1942 - Convoy SC 107 4-7 February 1943 -Convoy SC 118 5 November 1940 - Convoy HX-84 8 June 1940 - Operation Juno 9 April 1940 - first naval battle of Narvik 9 April-8 June 1940 - Battle of Narvik April and early May, 1940 - Åndalsnes landings April and early May, 1940 -Namsos Campaign 9 April 1940 - Action off Lofoten 21 May 1940 - HMS Effingham scuttled May 24, 1940 - Operation Alphabet - British evacuation of 26,000 8 June 1940 - British carrier HMS Glorious is sunk by German ships 28 April 1942 - Convoy QP 11 5 May 1942 - St Albans accidentally sank supporting Polish submarine ORP Jastrząb 25 May 1942 - German aircraft attacks sink 6 British vessels, damage 5 more 24 June 1942 - A StG 5 Ju 87 sank HMS Gossamer in Kola Bay 20 September 1942 - U-435 sank HMS Leda 20 September 1942 - U-255 sank 4937-ton Silver Sword 20 September 1942 - U-703 sank HMS Somali 20 September 1942 - U-435 sank 5345-ton Bellingham, Ocean Voice and Grey Ranger 2 November 1942 - U-586 sank 6640-ton Empire Gilbert 30 January 1943 - U-278 sank HMS Hardy 19 November 1941 - Battle between HMAS Sydney and German auxiliary cruiser Kormoran 31 March - 10 April 1942 - Indian Ocean raid 5 and 9 April 1942 - Easter Sunday Raid on Ceylon 14 May 1942: A KG 30 Ju 88 dive bomber sank HMS Trinidad 30 January 1941-18 February 1941 - Convoy HX.106 4 April 1941 - Action of 4 April 1941 10--28 May 1941 - Convoy HX.126 24 May 1941 - Battle of the Denmark Strait 22-25 August 1942 - Convoy ON 122 9-14 September 1942 - Convoy ON 127 12-16 October 1942 - Convoy SC 104 15-18 November 1942 - Convoy ON 144 26-30 December 1942 - Convoy ON 154 3-12 January 1943 - Convoy TM 1 6-10 March 1943 - Convoy SC 121 20-25 February 1943 - Convoy ON 166 10-11 March 1943 - Convoy HX 228 16-19 March 1943 - Convoy HX 229/SC 122 22 to 23 October 1943 - Battle off Sept-Îles 11-13 February 1942 - Channel Dash 11-12 February 1942 - Channel Dash 26 May - 21 June 1942 - Battle of Gazala 29 September 1942 - Operation Braganza 22 March 1942 - Second Battle of Sirte 12-15 June 1942 -Operation Harpoon 12-16 June 1942 - Operation Vigorous 9-15 August 1942 - Operation Pedestal 19 August 1942 - Dieppe Raid 13-14 September 1942 - Operation Agreement - SAS and Royal Marines decimated 10 November-25 December 1942 - The Run for Tunis 11 December 1942 - Raid on Algiers 16 April 1943 - Battle of the Cigno Convoy 8 September - 22 November 1943 - Dodecanese Campaign 26 September - 16 November 1943 Battle of Leros 110+ RAF aircraft lost 3-4 October 1943 - Battle of Kos - 1,400 British POWs 6 November 1943 - Action off Cape Bougaroun 7-14 June 1944 - Operation Perch 11 June 1944 - Battle of Le Mesnil-Patry 18-20 July 1944 - Operation Goodwood 300+ tanks lost 19-25 July 1944 - Battle of Verrières Ridge July 25-27, 1944 - Operation Spring 14-21 August 1944 - Operation Tractable - high allied casualties due to friendly fire 17-26 September 1944 - Battle of Arnhem 7,000 POW 22-23 October 1944 - Operation Pegasus 140 British paratroopers rescued 16 December 1941- March 1942 - Battle of Borneo 13-15 February 1942 - Battle of Palembang 18-20 February 1942 - Battle of Badung Strait 19 February 1942 - 10 February 1943 - Battle of Timor 27 February 1942 - Battle of the Java Sea 28 February - 1 March 1942- Battle of Sunda Strait 28 February-12 March 1942 - Battle of Java 1 March 1942 - Battle of the Java Sea (II) March 20 - March 26, 1944 - Battle of Sangshak
USMarineRifleman0311 funny thing is though, most of those weren't US victories, they were just battles they were involved in. copy and paste is a bitch.
i was to visit HMS Victoty in the port of portsmouth and i swear you can feel the smell of the glory and naval power on that ship respect for all mighty British Naval Power greetings from Romania
@BradPanoff, "old Ironsides" was the nickname of the USS Constitution, not because it's sides were made from iron but because an American sailor shouted "Huzzah! It's sides are of iron!" when a cannonball bounced off the hull.
This is a computer "game," but at least, the programmers could have got one thing correct. Watch, and you will see, many times, the sails are completely furled, then flown full, then refurled, etc. That would not have happened due to the crews being engaged in battle and very few would be working the sails and they would not have had the time to repeatedly furl then unfurl. Just a minor but important observation from an old RN salt.
Did you know that the Victory can do such a powerful broadside that she could sink a flagship and kill 200 men in one broadside using all of her canons
The operative word is, "could," not can. The other problem is that a "canon" cannot usually kill anybody for it is not any kind of weapon of war. However, a canon can be enacted upon to pass a death sentence by a religious court. Rather it is a religious (church) rule or law enacted by a council. Please, try to put your brain in gear before operating a keyboard, passing on knowledge or making a factual statement because otherwise, somebody will crucify you for your mistake. Also, a broadside is normally fired from one side not both sides, as you imply unless firing at targets on both sides of the ship which is/was unusual. I served in the Royal Navy and we never did that even with blank shells when doing target practice or just training.
+CaptAmericaUSAF Did you know that that is probably the most absurd nonsense ever written? She fired many, many broadsides during her very long and illustrious career, not least as Nelson's flagship at the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805. She was the lead ship of one of the two columns and was the second British ship to break the French line. Before Trafalgar she fought in the First Battle of Ushant (1777), Second Battle of Ushant (1780), The Siege of Gibraltar (1782) and the battle of Cape St. Vincent (1797). Victory is large, but by no means the largest first rate built. That record goes to the Spanish La Santisima Trinidad, a 136 gun four-decker! And she too fired many broadsides during her career.
FYI, the American's built six frigates at the end of the 18th century. Three were identical with 44+ guns, Constitution, President, and the United States. Three were slightly smaller with 38+ guns. The Congress, Constellation, and Chesapeake. All were designed and built with live oak frames by Joshua Humphreys and were the fastest and most powerful Frigates ever built. These ships were so feared that 13 months into the Wo1812, British Admiralty forbid any single ship engagements with them.
try skirmishing a 1st rate with a frigate in empire, there's a reason the were called 'ship of the line' those floating fortresses were made to fight in a line, because the bow and the stern were vulnerable, and as speed and handling were scarce were low that meant that you could just skirt in front of it, and shoot it till she died (you have to remember that just a few holes in the hull at the bottom would sink a ship, even with the pumps they carried)
Just to add one bit of American perspective to this clearly British pride fest, and please keep in mind I have a high degree of respect for the U.K., especially considering our English friends are the only true friend we have on a global scale. But to keep things I perspective of military prowess and tact on a battlefield, if memory serves the mighty British Royal forces were defeated soundly by a rag tag band of colonists with little to no official military training, yes some were former Regulars but as a whole calling them an army would be stretching the truth. And as an added insult the great Lord Cornwallis was reported to have said to one of his top Generals "They are nothing more than a bunch of farmers with pitchforks, how hard can it be" (it) meaning finding and defeating the colonial forces. Now as stated previous, I have a great deal of respect for our cousins from across the pond, but the strength and abilities of our respective armed forces would be akin to comparing apples to oranges, each have their strengths, and each have their weaknesses.
David Lamb I'm just correcting what you said. I have no interest in a pointless internet discussion. All I ask is that you at least learn what you are talking about before you type up a comment in the future.
Metal00m I can understand and agree with your statement, but if like you said if you take time to actually read what I said, I wasn't being biased or trying to correct anyone. What I was doing was trying to say that pounding your British chest touting how great and mighty the royal forces of the time were is a moot point. Especially since the obvious point was made that the Constitution and the Victory would never face off in battle, but also that it would be much easier and mutually beneficial if we all could just agree that both ships were amazing and beautiful, there were equal positive and negative attributes to both.
The Victory carried 2x as many guns as the Constitution, not counting her carronades which the Royal Navy didn’t include in the count. At Trafalgar she carried 2 carronades firing 68lb solid and case shot. You’ll see Constitution’s 32lb carronades are mounted higher up because they were short barrelled and weighed about a 1/4 of Victory’s 32 lb long guns. They used about 1/4 to 1/3 the powder as well. Carronades were regarded as close quarter guns accurate up to 500 yards, while the long guns went out to over 2000. Constitution’s 32 lb guns would have been outranked by Victory’s 24lb guns, never mind her 32 lb guns. Captain David Porter of USS Essex complained when the navy replaced his 12-pounder long guns with 32-pounder carronades.
Not for Old Ironsides. She is still a commisioned US Naval vessel and sails at least once a year. I am not sure of the Victory but she is kept in great condtion aswell.
Like so many have said, the Connie would have been best to stay far away, I love our frigate, but it's like putting the uss Eisenhower against the hood, not even a contest.. I absolutely love both ships, I've built both of these, love them!
I I may be wrong rather than trade broadside for broadside but as I have read it French gunners were told to fire on the Role to elevate the cannons firepower and try to disable a superior enemy ship by by staking out as much rigging and sails to give them a chance to get away. British ship in side to side combat would attempt to go hard a starboard or port, as guns bear fire a stern take broadside. This would completely sweep the cannon deck killing everyone and destroying all cannons and additionally bring down all the masts making the enemy ship completely vulnerable to boarding or complete destruction. A stern rake is complete devastation the cannonballs travel stern to bow of the enemy.
Whoever was driving the Constitution in this vid has a lot to learn about tactics. Frigates can take on first rates alone, I've done it in ETW and I take smaller ships against larger ones all the time in another ship game called Pirates of the Burning Sea. The problem here is the Constitution's driver doesn't take advantage of Victory's main weakness, slow speed and lack of maneuverability. You could stern camp by zigzagging across Victory's stern using bar shot, then finish her with round.
Joshua Humphreys designed the 1794 Naval Act frigates to be able to defeat anything in their class and to run from anything that outclassed them. His designs proved their worth after the Constitution defeated the Guerriere and Java and the United States defeated the Macedonian, a stunned Royal Navy ordered their ships not to engage any American heavy frigates unless they had overwhelming numbers.
There's been more than one HMS Victory you numpty. Yes that particular one you mentioned did sink, however it was rebuilt and launched in 1765. This is the boat that currently resides in Portsmouth, and is the one dipicted in Empire: Total War as the game is set between 1700 and the early 19th century.
A lot of British Naval success at the time was due to the strict policy we had of attacking every enemy ship spotted, even if the odds were heavily against us. In big ship battles it was due to superior training, strategy and Admirals such as Nelson that made us so successful, but in smaller conflicts are aggressiveness caused our enemies to fear us. However, despite the development of this reputation, some people say this caused us more harm than good.
The designers of the first US Navy frigates knew they couldn't construct anything that could go toe-to-toe with a European First or Second Rate line-of-battle ship mounting 74 to over 100 guns and carrying a much bigger compliment of marines. They were built as the 'cruisers' of their day with sufficient speed to get away from a ship of the line like Victory.
Sorry youre right! The earlier version of the HMS victory was sunk near the English channel. The one we are talking about is a early replica of the first one, it survived!! :D
Actually a pretty fair fight simply because of the size of the HMS Victory. The Constitution was light-years ahead of the British ships of the same size, and I think it could hold up to the Victory IRL. The live oak hull would bounce most of the Victories shot, while the Victory's side would be more easily penetrated by the Constitution's long guns and carronades.
@Oricelis Don't forget that Victory had been modernized more than once. While she was an older design than Constitution, all her guns had been replaced, her rigging changed and several other alterations had been made. While slower than Constitution, she was in fact very fast and manourable as first rates went.
Constitution during the war of 1812 was rated as a 44 gun Frigate Lower deck was long 24 pounders upper 32 short barrel guns. Most Bri, were 12/18 pounders lower/24 pounders ahort barrel.
Dude this isn't some random British ship this is the best the British navy could produce its lower deck were long 32 pounders followed by long 24 pounders then 2 decks of 12 pounders, the constitution on its best day could only deflect the 12 pounders
@@SHIELDEDGamez Was comparing to Bri Frigates, no she dould not stand up to a ship of the line. was just showing that it had more fire power than tha average British Frigate
Starting in the mid-1800's, Canada and the US began to develop such a strong friendship that we now have the longest unguarded border in the entire World...because we trust each other. We share a common language, very similar culture, and a common heritage. Canada is also our biggest trading partner. We also come into contact with Canadians very frequently, specially in the winter months when they all come down to vacation here in the US. I admire and respect Canada. It's a very beautiful nation
@rappey USS Constitution was not actually in Master and Commander. She was the inspiration for Acheron, and Peter Weir, the director, did have a great deal of pictures of Constitution taken. However, the Acheron of the film, alas, only exists there. She is but CG images and miniatures. HMS Surprise was actually HMS Rose, a reproduction from the 1970s. She is now owned by San Diego Maritime Museum.
Funnily enough the only two age of sail ships in active service, just goes as a staple of how much better Britain was in those days. One proudest of the British fleet, the vessel they kept as their flagship, was a 104 gun 1st rate, while the US had only frigate to show.
Under the existing tactics of the day, the only chance the Constitution would have has would be to rake the Victory's stern multiple times without taking a full broadside of victory's far heavier broadside. When sailing ships were stripped for action, all bulkheads were stored below the waterline and the ship became one long corridor inside. Shot coming through the stern could travel the entire length of the ship, unless it hit something substantial (masts, guns, etc.). However, it's unlikely that Victory's captain would allow his ship to be rakes like that without a response.
Blueongold. If you recheck your history. The British Admiralty considered the Constitution to be the best frigate aflout at that time. The British Navy put out an order that she was not to be engaged alone by anything smaller than a ship of the line. Nevertheless, she was not designed to engage a ship as large and well gunned as the Victory.
Most people do not know about the American 74's. The USS North Carolina was considered by many as the most powerful ship in the world. The things that helped make the Constitution powerful also went for the 74's. By this time, England had been building ships for 500 years but had planted none for it. You have to see how ships were made back then, trees were marked years earlier because they had a certain shape. If you did not have a tree shaped like that, you had problems. And the American's ships used a "secret anti hogging" added to their hulls so they could be longer and thus faster. America was settled by England and one big reason was its trees and tree by-products. Russia was invaded by Napoleon because of England trading with it, or "Russia allowing the trade" of trees. A big one being old, long pines for ship's masts. So it was kind of important but we do not think about it. America had a few things going for it here. One was a mix of two kinds of Oak trees they used in the sides that no one else had. And they were longer and faster, the 74's were really a "cut-down" heavier ship. The Victory was a hog, it was big and very slow. England did not want its ships to be fast, they wanted them to be able to stay in a line battle. I'd consider it like the ship Yamato vs the Iowa. The Iowa was made of better steel and was faster with great guns. The Victory was made to be big and slow. As far as the Constitution, it's guns were larger and "longer" than most ships, they had a long range. As it was fast. The problem in this video is whoever is playing the Constitution. I'd use my speed to stay away and rake with broadsides vs Victory's front or rear guns. American sailing ships carried a lot of anti rigging rounds, more than even the French (which I did not know). So the Constitution would have tried to shoot their rigging and if so, they could of taken them one on one. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_North_Carolina_(1820)
I'm well aware of this but that doesn't change anything. The Shannon was a newer ship with an outstanding gunnery crew. The fact that both the Chesapeake and President were both captured by the British doesn't change how badass the American frigates were. It just proves, in all cases, that a ship is only as good as the men who sail her.
It's a fortress in a sense, because the "taller" ship, akin to men on taller walls, have a critical advantage - the ability to fire their guns directly down into the enemy's innards. The strength of a man-of-war was in the thick ribbing and multi-layered timber of its hull. The Victory, already have a massive advantage in that regard, would be able to bypass the Conny's protection altogether, firing directly down on the crew and into the gun decks. Conny would be rendered a bloody shambles.
Thats your opinion. Anyone who has read up on Napoleonic era naval warfare has read of mismatched and lopsided victories happening, which did include frigates taking on 1st rates by boarding action going deck to deck killing crewmen and winning. The Constitution was faster than the entire British squadron off Halifax, the Victory would be no match for it in speed, all she'd have to do is fire a broadside of hot shot into its rigging. 2,3 vs 1 frigates is a tougher fight.
They weren't so poorly trained as you think. Baron von Steuben deserves way more credit than he's usually given. In the Battle of Monmouth Court House, the colonials were every bit as disciplined as the redcoats. Morgan's victory at Cowpens was pure tactical genius.
Ya'll are playing the what if game. We can try all we want but it is interesting that they are around the same age and both are basically still afloat. HMS Victory is in permanent dry dock and U.S.S. Constitution comes out of hers every now and then.
Kudos on the animation, very realistic. I suspect you have studied sailing ships for sometime. Thank you for sharing, I enjoyed watching the engagement.
How has he studied ships for sometime? This is the one of the dumbest and silliest videos of all time. No frigate would dare fight a 1st Rate, not even a 3rd Rate. And one broadside from the victory would be able to knock the Constitution out of action.
Also a large part of the British military was held up in the Peninsular campaign and the Royal Navy was busy blocking French trade. In general it was a war that neither side could hope to really win with or without Napoleon. Like you said, 3000 miles of sea is a big problem in the 19th century.
These two battlewagons were in an entirely different class. I am American and although The Constitution was well built she would have been out sized and out gunned. There were not many ships of the line like the Victory. She struck fear into every ship she went up against for good reason. Well trained well gunned with one of the most genius ship master who ever sailed the high seas.
@Oricelis It's not about size, guns or sail design. It's about the crew and how they are trained for battle and by the outcome of the battles the H.M.S Victory was in. I wouldn't dismiss her just like that.
you know what guy... take a razee/24pounder frigate, and a heavy first rate, play as the frigate, take out first rates sails while trying not to get a broadside, then sit like a duck why the ship of the line is crawling towards you (stay at its bow) and see if you cant sink it i recommend having the wind and 1st rate coming up behind you,
I am Canadian so mostly unbiased however the USS constitutions primary use was in a war against us and let’s not forget who won the war of 1812 and burned the whitehouse to the ground. But I have seen constitution in person in Boston and she is beautiful. I was actually there when they flooded her dry doc again in I think 2017 was the year. These ships would never see each other and if they did constitution would run as fast as possible away. She was a good ship but no ship other than the Spanish “nuestra senora de la santisma Trinidad” and other 1st rates could handle victory’s broadside. The constitution was 13 knots fast she was light and powerful and was an amazing ship for a small young nation to have. But victory is heavy as hell and had so much sail that she could put out 11 knots for her size and she hailed from a colossal world power with the biggest navy at the time. The royal navies men had the most training so victory would be more efficient than the constitution in battle. The constitution would barely be able to out run victory 2 knots speed difference is nothing. And even with constitutions “iron hull” she wouldn’t stand a chance. But again this battle would never ever happen even if it got close to happening the constitutions captain would know not to go on a suicide mission against a 1st rate. Britain ruled the seas until the 20th century when America started industrializing quickly which is the first time it became a world power and not just a small nation. Britain has been a relatively huge nation since the dark ages with their barbaric ways. It’s no surprise why in history they dominate.
Yup. Look into the Crown Agents and Club of the Isles. The British Empire NEVER went away and it is utterly mind-numbing just how vast its control over the world's resources today are. "Just beneath the skin of history, are London's veins." All the best!
Practically any ship can turn faster than another could sail around them, even a relatively lumbering ship of the line against a nippy frigate. Any frigate, even a very powerful one like Constitution, would retreat when opposed by any ship of the line, never mind a first rate like Victory. Shooting off the rudder could potentially do the trick, but isn't as easy as you make it out to be.
Agreed, but technically she was known as a 'Large Frigate'. She was more than a match for a frigate but she would have to make use of her speed and run when faced with a ship of the line.
She wasn't more than a match for a british frigate, all her opponents were smaller than her. And when compared to more even engagements by her sister-ships, USS Chesapeake and President, who lost against british frigates of equal sizes
As a Heavy Frigate the Constitution was fast enough to run from the bigger ships and big enough to beat anything she couldn't run away from. The British considered the US Frigates to be "Super Frigates" in that they were typically better than a standard frigate. Although when your entire navy consists of just 5 frigates it is logical to put what money you have into that type of warship. Britain obviously put its money into the first rate ships.
However, that is a best case scenario assuming that the victory hadn't been able to fight back. The first broadside would have aimed at the constitution's gun decks and maybe another one or two broadsides would have almost certainly crippled the constitution's sail and fighting ability, and then a boarding action would have finished her off. It's safe to say a 104 gunner first rate like the victory could have decimated a 44 gun frigate like the constitution.
Don't worry about some sad troll in his mom's basement making stupid comments. Almost all Americans love the UK and have deep respect for your history. If I'm not mistaken, surveys show that the UK is the second most loved foreign country here, second only to Canada. As for Lord Nelson, he was a great man. I have a model of his ship in my office, and an old English pipe tamper with Nelson's image that I still use whenever I feel like smoking some pipe tobacco.
"But, Sir, with respect, she's a vastly heavier ship. She's out of our class..."
"Well then, there's not a moment to lose"
Ah yes. I love that movie!
But I doubt the Constitution would disguise itself as a whaling ship, she's vastly too big and her deck cannons at the top would expose her.
If she actually would want to beat the Victory, she would have to be bloody invisible.
Such as in the fog, :D. (Another reference)
Sean Poole Funny thing is that the Acheron is based on the USS Constitution lol. In the book it’s an American ship as well.
@@carljuvy "If she actually would want to beat the Victory, she would have to be bloody invisible."
not necessarily, lets look at both ships
HMS Victory displacement is 3500 tons to Constitutions 2200 tons
HMS Victory's top speed is 11 knots to Constitution's is 13 knots
HMS Victory's cannon range was 400 yards
USS Constitution cannons had a maximum effective range of about 1200 yards
lets say for the sake of argument you're the captain of the Victory and i'm the captain of Constitution and you're chasing me
you're moving at 11 knots so once you're with that 1200 yard range of my guns i slow to 11 knots matching your speed at 11 knots
you're not gaining and i'm not pulling away
I've been on the Constitution, its only about 5 miles away from where i am now and the captains quarters is in the back on the gun deck
so what i would do is take one of the guns, remove the walls and have the crew roll that one 1200 ranged cannon to the center Aft window, secure it and have it set up to fire allowing it to recoil without smashing into anything
once that's done i just start shooting at your bow till i can hit it with accuracy, your cannons cant reach me because your cannons only have a range of 400 yards and you're going to have a hell of a time getting one of them to the bow to shoot at my aft where my 1200 yard range cannon is laughing at you.................see where this is going?
so what do you do? you either tack port or starboard to get away and i follow suit because now i can hit you with a broadside from all my guns and you still cant fire yours because i'm still out of range and i just might be able to do enough damage after a couple of volley's to stop you dead in the water.
than all i have to do is sail around you just out of range firing my guns till you either surrender or slowly sink below the waves
the this video shows only the Victory and Constitution, Victory has no other support ship to help it once i start shooting (out of your range)
Constitution has the advantage of a 1 on 1 against Victory
"Mic drop" Elvis is is leaving the building!
“She’s still vulnerable at the stern, like the rest of us!”
1:41 I like how a guy tries to jump back on the USS Constitution but it's already left so he just jumps in the water.
lol
Reminds me of Pirates of the Carribean 1, when one guy tries to go back on the interceptor buts its already gone xD
When was this? When had someone tried to jump back onto the USS Constitution, only to fall into the water?
@@DavidRLentz its on the vid lol... vclick he timelapse...
A frigate sailing up to the side of a 1st rate for boarding? That's literally looking for death.
Indeed, but the USS Constitution was built in such a way that made it damn near impenetrable, so if these 2 titans fought each other it would be quite a tough battle for both sides.
Blackadder hahaha good joke mate. Consti fight only vs smaler frigs like Hms Java. Dont you know what cannons got Victory on main deck ? 32 pounders , than 28x24punders. Your consti 24.... And how many cannons per side 50 compare to 27
Crew on consti 400men
Victory 850....
First read about stats of both ships than write.
@@blackadder5346
Absolute rubbish.
32 pounders and carronades would have smashed it to kindling at close range.
@@blackadder5346 She was simply built in a way such that she had relatively heavy planking for a frigate. While this meant that at longer ranges she could shrug off shot from lighter guns (12-pounders and the like), heavier guns could still pierce her hull with a fair level of consistency.
@@jacobrudder7582 HMS Victory had a single 64 pounder on deck, that my friend would go straight through Old Ironside
Lots of silly comments. They're totally different ships. I'm neither British or American so I think I can give a sensible, unbiased point of view.
USS Constitution was a frigate and it would never have engaged a British ship of the line. Fact. It was designed to outfight everything it couldn't outrun and outrun everything it couldn't outfight. It reality it never engaged a ship of its own class let alone a first rate. And it never made any difference to the status quo either, the RN controlled the US coastline from New Orleans to New England. The British problem was on the lakes - " If we cannot(control the lakes), then I will do you no good in America" Wellington. Ultimately, the US super frigates made no difference to the naval balance of power.
All incidents of frigates taking a broadside from a first, second or third rate show that the frigates were utterly devastated, even 'Old Ironsides' would have suffered such a fate if it had been so engaged. There are examples from history when the Constitution ran away from larger British opponents - quite sensibly too.
Then they will call Constitution a coward for being smart and not losing one for the team lol.
I know this is an old comment but the USS Constitution did actively engage ships its size. USS Constitution vs HMS Guerriere both were frigates, the constitution only had a 3 gun advantage on the HMS Guerriere.
And to say they made no difference isn't entirely accurate. They literally dominated for the first year or 2 of the way before the Royal Navy could bring its power down upon the new republic.
A fight between HMS Victory vs USS Constitution could very easily lead to a US victory because as you pointed out. The Constitution is faster. It is also undoubtedly more maneuverable
@@bigdcd664 HMS Guerriere was French-built and thus had much lighter planking than a typical British-built ship, never mind USS Constitution. It was also only rated for 38 guns, the heaviest of which were the 30ish 18lb long guns. Constitution carried massively more firepower. It wasn't anything like a fair fight- which shows the skill of USS Constitution's crew. Fighting fair means you have a 50% chance of getting beaten after all.
I have no qualms about stating USS Constitution was the finest ship of her type in her day- genius design, well built and skilfully handled. But comparing her to HMS Victory is like comparing apples to granite blocks. HMS Victory was a First rate ship-of-the-line. It was designed to stand in the line of battle, absorbing incoming fire and dishing out pain in return and it was supreme in that regard, the aging and maturing of her timbers had made her impressively tough and she outgunned USS Constitution with just her secondary battery. And finally HMS Victory had a succession of some of the best captains the RN produced who were peerless at training their crews.
The speed is a point over-played too. USS Constitution could reach 13 knots in deal sailing conditions. HMS Victory regularly reached 11.5 knots and was recorded at 12 knots more than once. That's ideal conditions. If the wind is weaker than ideal then USS Constitution has all the advantages she needs to disengage- doing anything else in the face of a First rate, the the captain would deserve to attend a courts martial for gross negligence and dereliction of duty... Where it would get interesting would be in high wings and heavy seas... A more massive hull with a deeper keel and rudder, higher freeboard and greater stability allowing more cloth to be put on the yards... I suspect the speed and manoeuvrability advantage would swing in HMS Victory's favour. Probably not enough for the visibility conditions, but if some freak event occurred that both ships were in close contact but not engaged and along came a storm...
" the RN controlled the US coastline from New Orleans to New England."
only because they had the ships to do it with, Constitution was one of only 6 frigates the US had.
of course the British could patrol the whole eastern coast.
"Ultimately, the US super frigates made no difference to the naval balance of power. "
i
we're talking about, not the German navy of the 1940's
that when was the last time Argentina had a war at sea?
@@bigdcd664 and the American ships historically could fire every 1 min and 40 seconds, whilst the crews of British and French ships could only fire every 2 mins and 45 seconds, I learned this bye visiting the old iron sides herself, and talking to the crew about it, and she only participated in 33 battles which were all engagements, she did retreat momentarily just to analyze the situation then came back to finish the job, plus she never lost any of her all 33 engagements with the British and there fleet
In real life the HMS Victory would've creamed the Constitution. No frigate captain would ever dare to challenge a ship of the line.
I doubt they would've even fought because the captain of the Constitution would've tried to escape.
She might be called "Old Ironsides" but her hull couldn't survive against the longer and much stronger and heavier guns of the Victory.
And her hulls weren't made of iron, the Constitution used a different wood which was a lot thicker and stronger than the typical wood the British used. Which is why the Guerriere's shot's completely bounced off her.
lol dude its tactics i can sink a sotl with a sloop
which probably means it was better than most british ships. the French built very good ships, they just couldn't use them for shit.
Captain pellew would disagree lol
the consitution also had much more ribbing that was also closer together, for additional strength.
The hull of the constitution had a bit more than thicker and stronger going for it. The wood had give which let it bounce a bigger ball without throwing splinters.
That being said I most certainly would not want to be on the receiving end of a first rate broadside on any ship forget being on a frigate. Even with Gods favor as far as the winds go, a single broadside raking the deck would massacre anyone in sight.
30 guns vs. 104 guns. do the math, and you quickly realize that Victory could blast the Constitution out of the water in one broadside
Oshe had over 40 guns. And yes the victory would blast her out of the water if she could keep up with the constittution. Sorry but honestly the constitution still has a very good chance to win shes just to fast.
jeffery frazee Yeah but the thing is about the Victory that it has 104 cannons to put it in the fact the H.M.S Victory is a heavy ass ship as i say it's a floating fortress and cannot move so fast and along with the U.S.S Constitution it's a fast ship that it has 40+ cannons and lies in the Docks of Charlestown Navy Yard and the H.M.S Victory lays in the docks of Portsmouth and i my last words the two ships are an Even Match against each other.
True i agree with you.
Reece foster In a straight engagement, the Connie would lose. Horribly. She has maybe 0.1% chance to win. The reason, you ask? Simple. Connie had quite a few guns and very good armor, for a frigate (hence, a super frigate). However, the Vic is a 1st rate ship of the line. It has much more armor, more than twice the number of guns, not to mention the fact that she has bigger ones than the Connie. While the Connie may be more maneuverable than the Vic, it would rather quickly find itself in the way of a broadside.
And THAT, would be game over. If she doesn't sink outright from a single braodside, she'll be so disabled as to be written off. Then, if the Vic feels like it, one more broadside and a new reef is born.
Just to be clear, I'm not british, nor american. I respect both navies of the time, seeing as my country's navy was heavily involved at the time. But there is no debate, the Vic would destroy the Connie. Which is why the Connie would never engage a rated ship in the first place.
Halt Tranty actually
the victory has no armor at all except for the thick planking at the waterline and down lol
"0.1% chance"
yeah..haha...no.
more like 10-15%
the constitution actually had armor
and pretty good size guns for a frigate
25 broadside vs 50 broadside
yes, the victory would win
but the constitution wouldn't lose horribly lol
constitution was armed with
20 32lb carronade
and
30 24lb long guns
so again
no,
she wouldn't lose horribly
but she would lose.
Sausage is correct - I'm an Aussie, don't care for the US versus UK debate. Victory would have smashed constitution to matchsticks and the captain of the constitution, in that circumstance, would have been fully aware of that fact.The War of Independence was a complex struggle, defined perhaps more by political victories than military ones. And the role of France was critical. France and its allies were a much bigger military conglomerate than Britain and the American colonists really just became another militia in the French Army - which is another way of looking at it. It was the British who were outgunned and outnumbered in the world conflict. In Britain at the time most saw the revolt as a cowardly stab in the back. Britain's main military forces faced Europe. The numbers of troops sent to America tells the story - it was a minor engagement. Britain had more casualties in a single day at Waterloo than it had in the entire campaign in America - It's like comparing the Battle of Mogadishu with the Normandy Landings. Now of course, Britain didn't want to lose America, but there was no real political will to completely brutalise the colony to bring it to heel. In the final analysis though, it probably should be noted that most of the things that made America such a success in the 20th century were inherited from Britain. It's language, it's principles of law, it's love of freedom - these ideas were alive and kicking in Georgian England. The interesting thing about the British Empire is how many imitations it spawned.
Anne Browning. The Constitution was from the war of 1812, not the War of Independence. She was launched in 1797, the Revolutionary War finished in 1783.
I agree with the rest of your comment.
Anglo gang stand up 💪🇬🇧🇺🇲🇦🇺🇳🇿(Canada doesn't count they too french)
I'm just glad to know that despite their ages, both of these ships are still in operational as of 2020 in their respective Navies with the Victory serving as a the UK Navy's flag ship and museum ship and the Constitution serving as a training ship.
How is it unfair? It was the best US ship vs the best British ship. This video demonstrates that the British Royal Navy was much more powerful than the American navy at the time, which is historically true.
Actually its perfectly fair, an American frigate equals a British ship of the line in quality. The admiralty specifically ordered the infamous two to one ratio when engaging American heavy frigates and it wasnt unheard of for the latter to be capable of outsailing an entire enemy fleet. The Constitution took two 6th rates in one night. The Java was the most equal of the duels in which the latter's armament was supplement by crew that was 30% larger than on a prescribed 5th rate.
USMarineRifleman0311 6th rates are smaller than the Constitution (5th rate) which explains why Constitution could fight 1v2. Also, the legend doesn't say all other ships she took were sloops or small ships...
USMarineRifleman0311 Piss off does a U.S frigate equal a British 1st rate ship of the line, get your facts straight kid.
That two to one ratio was only ordered because the people who would have historically had to fight american heavy frigates would only have had sixth rates or other really small ships.
That;s like taking the best ten year old martial arts expert in the country and then pitting them up against Bruce Lee, then saying it's a fair fight because the ten year old wins his fights in a 5-1 ratio.
The Victory would have turned the Constitution into matchsticks.
Apples to Oranges.
Love the victory but she was barely even seaworthy for long.
One broadside from the victory and its night night constitution
The U.S.S Constitution was a ship designed to be as fast as a frigate, yet as durable and menacing as a ship-of-the-line. The U.S.S Constitution can outrun the HMS Victory, and keep up an even fight through firepower. The U.S.S Constitution did not have as many guns, but could compensate with the heavy canister shots that could be fired. Most people thought that the HMS Victory would win by a land slide. However, are you not familiar with the name "Old Ironsides"? The U.S.S Constitution can use it's speed to expose the HMS Victory's lethargy. And thus I close y statement with the U.S.S Constitution should have won., however it is clear that the U.S.S Constitution was not commanded to it's full potential, thus making it the fault of the commander. The U.S.S Constitution was a powerful ship nonetheless and is a much more worthy adversary than the HMS Victory ever could. If you think I am wrong, tell me and I will happily go into further detail to prove my point. If you had not yet recognized my point, it is that the U.S.S Constitution is a much more worthy adversary than the HMS Victory due to it's speed and power. The HMS Victory is a slow ship, it is not meant to destroy it's opponent in a single broadside, rather to endure longer than it's opponents as to assure an easy victory. Again, if you think I am wrong tell me, because I will be more than happy to go into much further detail as to prove my point.
Matt - Kun the hms victory was made to endure a lot. But 52 cannons will be enough to simply tear a ship to shreds, no matter how fast or powerful the enemy ship may be. I can see you know a lot about the USS constitution, but do you know anything about the HMS victory? Also, it is known that the USA constitution had a speed of 13 knots, to the victories 11, which is not that much of a difference considering I have spent a lot of my life on a ship. Also, the hms victory had a fighting force of around 150 to the constitutions 60. The victory would easily be able to overpower the constitutions crew, if they resorted to boarding. Another fact is that British gun crews were among the most well trained and accurate in the whole world, especially after trafalgar. Not many shots would be missing
@@mattg.5480 one broadside and the Constitution would have been reduced to matches
I guess the British have to go back in time to say there ships are better than the American ships because now they don't lol! American Navy way better!!
ryan blaney *Bigger
In real life one broadside from the Victory would have turned the constitution into matchwood. Victory was a 104 gun first rate of the line Battleship. Constitution was a 44 gun frigate. Constitution did well in the war of 1812 matched with ships her own or lesser size but in all reality if she have ever been unlucky enough to tangle with Victory then there would only have been one winner ... and it wouldn't have been called USS Constitution.
I would have to agree, a full broadside from the HMS Victory would be quite devastating, but the Constitution was legendary for how she would literally shrug off 32 pounder cannon hence the name 'Old Iron Sides'. Also, she would be much faster as the HMS Victory was about 9 knots at top speed and the USS Constitution was about 13 knots at top speed. The best way that you could defeat the Constitution would be by taking out the sails, the ship itself seemed practically unsinkable unless you set it on fire, no enemy has ever breached her hull. It's just good that these 2 legendary ships never fought each other or else one of them wouldn't be around for everyone to enjoy their history today.
I was just trying to say that what they showed here ... Constitution sinking Victory, would never of happened in real life ... even if Victory had had a poor captain.
This video shows USS constitution taking at least 5 full broadsides from victory and staying afloat ... hmmm. It also shows Victory being boarded by the crew of USS constitution which is totally unreal as Victory had a crew of some 900, twice as many as that of USS constitution and after 5 broadsides I doubt if more than half of that crew would have been fit for battle. Let's just call this video a bit of fun !!!
To be honest, If I were captain of the USS Constitution, I think I would have a better chance just trying to outrun the Victory.
You're right ... a frigate could probably out-tack a first rate and get away just as the much smaller sloops and barques used to out tack the Spanish galleons to stop them getting a broadside away. I could never imagine a frigate getting into close quarters with a much larger ship unless it had no other option.
Its simple really, think of it like this: Its a fight between a lion and a cheetah. In a cage the lion would rip the cheetah apart. But out on the plains of Africa the cheetah would run away and live to fight another day. Aaaah the penny just dropped :D
Well if yer gonna run off,thats hardly a battle is it?
dave h Dave, the point made in such is that America with it's small fleet adapted the strategy of Pirates in such an age; where you do not engage heavier ships and instead target ships such as Indianmen and smaller boats - which can heavily affect a nation.
The thing I love is this is the fight that USS Constitution was designed to NOT fight. When the ship was designed, the navy spent time considering what type of ship they built. They decided on a heavy frigate. A ship that could outrun and evade the powerful british ships of the line, but with enough firepower to handle a brig or frigate that had the speed to catch her.
Unless her captain, was suffering from a random case of shit in the brain, at the first sign of Victorys sails on the horizon he would have turned away and put on full sail.
Back when I was only about 5 or 6 years old and just getting on youtube for the first time, this is the first youtube video I ever remember watching, I am also now a creator and run my own small channel and I owe it all to you and your amazing video. Thank You.
This would have been a slaughter and any frigate captain who engaged a first rate ship of the line (unless he caught the ship by surprise or he knew the captain of the ship of the line was a total idiot) would have been courtmartialed assuming he survived the battle. The only battle I have heard of where a frigate held her own (for a while) against a ship of the line was the USS Randolph under Nicholas Biddle against the 64 gun HMS Yarmouth. Even then, though he caught the Yarmouth by surprise and inflicted serious damage, Biddle's ship was blown to smitherines when a shot from the Yarmouth hit her magazines.
During the Napoleonic wars British frigates did did defeat a French ship of the line she ran aground as did one of the frigates from memory.
@@grahamedge4349 ye indefatigable and another frigate I forget the name. Might have been amazon or something. Took on a 74 gun 3rd rate called the rights of man (English translation)
I was aboard HMS Victory when I was in the UK and visited Portsmouth. I took many photos of the ship and also HMS Warrior. Neat video.
the HMS Victory is one amazing ship, i've visited it my self and its truely a great piece of English history
As far as I know, Constitution used some unconventional tactics for her time: She had no boarding crew, so her range (water/food) was extended and she was faster because of less weight. And she used two long range guns at the bow following her opponent out of his fire range and running off when he turned to engage thus weakening him long before his first shot.
What was common, too, was to heat the cannon balls for the very first shot in hot coal so it would incinerate wood or gunpowder if it came in touch with it. So, the first broadside was the most important one. More so because with it there came the chainshots to clear away the opponent's rigging.
Heated shot were not used on board ship.
Good to know someone who knows what their talking about. Not being an ass, were is the HMS VICTORY as opposed to the USS CONSTITUTION!!!???
Timothy Came
What do you mean? They're both still there.
WindmillStalker there in dock in their respective countries ready to go fight again
Jason Wilson nope h.m.s victory is in permanent drydock
I am so happy you are here to help :') Thank you....i was getting so agitate by historically inaccurate ego.
great vid man :)
Theres no way the Constitution would have tried to board Victory, as a broadside from Victory, from that range (point blank) would have penetrated even old ironsides hull to devastating effect. Victory could take a full sea battle pounding as she proved, but its doubtful Constitution would have survived even half an hour of that sort of punishment. Victory also out ranged and outgunned Constitution and the best crews/captains of both ships equalled each other out. It would have been like Tyson v Sarah Palin, a non-contest with only one result: bye bye Constitution
Yeah i mean, hms Victory was the strongest warship to sail on all the seven seas during it's time, it had 53 cannons on each broadside. In order to keep her operational they had 800 crew members onboard and when it was made: the british had to cut down 9000 trees in order to get enough wood to build her! So she was and still is a large vessel! Along with the strongest and most dangerous during it's serving time but still... It don't make it obvious that she would win over that other ship because it's all about planning, how the captain controls the ship during the navy battle and... Well the cannons... The cannons was hard to aim with and extremly difflicult to hit a ship right above the water to make a hole and sink it. So it also depended much on the operaters to the cannons. Because hitting a ship on it's deck or sides nowhere near water wasn't enough to disable it. Because the cannon balls never was explosive! So it all depended on the crew during those battles! But then again: Victory would have an adventage since she has three decks with cannons on both sides so she would pack much more fire power and the armor on her would be in good aid to a battle as well but like i said... Mostly the crew the victory or loss lies on. Not the ships themselfs.
Actually, if this battle were to occur, the Constitution would use her tight turning and speed abilities along with good firepower to shell Victory and avoid her broadsides. Once that's over, Victory would be demasted and surrendering, or sinking.
Martin N She wouldn't have to, all Constitution has to do is put some distance from Victory's cannons and when Victory does decide to open fire any cannonballs that do hit will just bounce off. The only way to penetrate Constitution's hull was to shoot at practically point-blank. Constitution can turn on a dime, and has speeds much faster then any Ship of the Line. Victory is a First Rate Ship of the Line, she can turn as tight or sail as fast at Constitution. if Victory was getting too close she could just sail away and turn broadside quicker then Victory could.
TGSNVideos. Wadog
Utter balderdash, Victory carried 42 pounders on the lower deck that would have blown the Constitution to shreds, with 700 crew vs 400 they would never stand a chance in an attempt to board. Constitution did very well against the lighter British frigates of the day, but had she faced even a British 74 she would have been very quickly overwhelmed. Oh and as for Constitition escaping Victory. Yes she probably could run away in relatively calm conditions but if there was any kind of sea running she would have very quickly become a British prize.
223Sako Bull, 42 pounders just at mid ranges and farther, again, would just bounce off. All they are is larger cannon balls with more powder loaded in, they would bounce off, whether they're 12 pounders or 42 pounders. No captain in their right mind would board Victory with a Frigate. Like I said, all Constitution would have to do is keep away from Victory and fire. Sooner or later
If these two beasts fought against each other in real life, it'd be a pretty damn close battle.
Edit: Looking back on this, I realise my comment was stupid. The USS Constitution was made with speed in mind so that she could flee from ship-of-the-lines such as the HMS Victory. The HMS Victory would win 9 times out of 10.
Dude I highly suggested you to look up on both ships. There are no way in hell that a frigate will ever put up a fight against a first-rated ship of line.
No it wouldn’t, hell the constitution couldn’t even reliably beat British frigates, for example her sister ship the USS President was captured by a smaller British frigate(HMS Endymion) and the Royal navy has had a HMS President on its books ever since as a way to annoy americans
@@inquisitorsteele8397 Yeah, I was wrong. I edited my comment.
@@deeznoots6241 I know. I didn't know otherwise at the time, & I edited my original comment.
I see why they call her the hms victory :)
Both commanded by ancestors and I've been on both. I love to game but the average gamer really is ignorant (not speaking of you) of the realities that never make it into a game. This is understandable. Its a game but EVEN in a game I would never fight a 1st rate in a frigate unless it were possible to rake her to death. John Paul Jones performed such a clinic once driving an British SOL captain to distraction with a ship with no more than 16 small guns. An intelligent captain like Jones would NEVER do otherwise or allow himself to take a broadside one of which would have sent his little command to the bottom.
The Victory fired a broadside of 52 guns firing a total weight of shot of 1.25 tons which exceeded the entire firepower of both of Constitution's broadsides combined. She also carried larger guns overall. She had 15x32lb guns on each broadside. That's sufficient on its own to shred a frigate.
As for boarding, the Victory had 3 or 4 times as many crew.
No frigate captain would have laid his ship alongside a 1st rate ship-of-the-line and its unlikely that Constitution would have been able to inflict more than trivial damage before being torn apart.
I'm an American and a military veteran. This was a good video. The constitution was not able to be sunk because of the way it was constructed, thus being it's nick name "old iron sides" however, disabling the constitution's sails and boarding it take it's crew would be the only way to take her. That is what was shown in the video. This video is a frictional video because old iron sides was never lost. I liked the video.
putting those two against each other is a complete mismatch it's like putting a sherman tank (uss constitution) vs a tiger 2 tank (hms victory)
+Pancer's Cloud true, but I was referring to their firepower and durability since the HMS victory had significantly more guns and had a thicker hull, I mean in terms of fire power and durability it would go to the tiger 2 with its 105 mm gun or even the early models with the 88mm it still outmatched the shermans 76mm and armor wise the tiger 2 had 185mm at the front whereas the sherman had only less than a 100
Maybe the recorded reactions of Sherman crews faced with any iteration of Tiger is the best testimony. Read "Steel Coffins" (I think that is correct). The enlightenment to be found there is wonderful and its a good read. Have fun!
More like a Sherman vs an Abrams
That was technically unfair, because that HMS Victory had WAY more cannons then the USS Consitution in that video. And honestly, it didn't stand a chance.
More guns was not the issue. Nimble avoidance of Victory's broadside and raking her were the way to go if you HAD to fight. Constitution outfought and defeated 4 British frigates in the 1812. On another occasion she simultaneously outran and out foxed 4-5 British frigates. The conclusion here was far from forgone. The truth was that the Royal Navy was in quite the dither over how to catch and fight the big American 44s (and Constitution mounted in excess of 50 guns.
+MasklessSpy Not only on that video but in real life too...HMS Victory was a slowly giant firing machine.....but the USS constitution was a speedy shooter that earned her "warname"... and it was because of the ship´s speed and firepower that the frigate was the election ship of pirates
+George King More guns were ~exactly~ the issue. USS Constitution had more and heavier guns than any of the ships she defeated. During the war of 1811, she was armed with 30 24-pounder cannons and typically 20 32-pounder carronades.
HMS Guerriere was armed with 30 18-pounder cannons and 20 32-pounder carronades. Constitution was also larger and heavier than Guerrierre.
HMS Java had 28 18-pounder cannons and 20 32 pounder carronades.
HMS Leander was armed solely with 20 32-pounder carronades and displacing only about 450 tons, she was a very small frigate. After the British recaptured her, she was reclassed as a sloop-of-war.
HMS Cyane I have no hard data on, but she is described as comparable with Leander.
So it would seem to me that guns and size matters quite a lot! No frigate, Constitution or otherwise, would have the slightest chance against a 100 cannon first rate. It's a prepostorous idea. Do you think a WW2 light cruiser would stand a chance against USS Iowa? It would not and likewise Constitution would only have one chance against Victory: Run like hell!
The HMS Victory is no mere frigate.
It's a first rate ship of the line.
If it was real the HMS Victory would have been with an entire fleet, an even smaller ship than the Constitution would have been sent to get it's attention, pretend to run away and lead it to the fleet and then it would get obliterated .
I don't get it why people whine here about that this is an "unfair battle", because actually, it isn't. Yes, Victory has much more guns and double the size, but Constitution is much more faster, thanks to it's small size. Constitution can easily escape from Victory but Victory can easily shoot Constitution down if it is in range.
That's true, but if both ships are approaching facing each other the really only weak spot on the victory was her stern. To get to the stern the Constitution would one way or another put itself in range of the victory's broadside guns. Even one pass of the victory's gun's could have de-masted her and that would have been the end of the constitution leaving her a sitting duck for the victory to pick apart.
Actually this battle would've been very easy for the USS Constitution to win. Simple thing: keep out of penetration range and shell HMS Victory, and eventually Constitution would've hit a power storage area or one of it's masts or kill too many British Crewmen and boom, bye bye Victory. Simple concept: If your ship can't be damaged and you can damage theirs, you win.
TGSNVideos. Wadog The Victory has longer range guns than the Constitution. The Victory can constantly have her broadside guns facing the constitution forcing a stalemate or forcing the constitution to move in and attack, Victory wins 9/10. It's not about the speed of the ship it's about the turn rate and with minimal sails the Victory can go toe to toe with the constitution in turning rate, there might be a 2-4 second window where they are both turning and once that turning time is over the Victory will unleash a broadside that will rip the constitution to shreds.
T1JumpTIX All Constitution really has to do is attack from it's max range at full sail circling Victory, and when Victory fires back, because of Constitution's hull, the cannonballs would've bounced off. and eventually Victory would've had a powder magazine hit and exploded causing fires and possibly a small chain reaction, resulting in heavy damage to Victory. In the end, Constitution would've suffered a good lot of damage and causalities but Victory would be badly damaged and most likely on fire either retreating, surrendering, or sinking.
***** No, it's the truth. Constitution wouldn't have to avoid the broadsides, just be far enough away when Victory fires so the shots that do hit bounce off. The only way at those ranges is to get a lucky short though the stern and hit a powder magizine.
Rules of engagement of that time would normally prevent this, given the disparity in firepower; a frigate post-captain would not engage a first-rate, and in return, the first-rate would go after bigger ships only; if by chance the frigate actually engaged a first-rate, it would be considered a valid target and as so fired upon;
Alternate title: USS Constitution wants to get broadsided by Victory for 4 minutes straight
Constitutuion wouldn't last 5 minutes. At rhe battle of the Nile at least 1 French frigate was sunk by 1 broadside from a British 74
Explain why a frigate would engage a first rate? Constitution would have run...and did run at times in the War of 1812, to save her life and fight another day.
That being said, given her construction it is not inconceivable she could tackle a 3rd or 4th rate. There are examples. Constitution was rated at 44 guns but carried over 50 and was constructed very strongly.
"Butt hurt Americans" lmao I'm American and I been chanting "VICTORY! VICTORY!" This whole time wym
So have I-
Walking into this battle, assuming its real, the Constitution was fucked.
I apologize in advance because this is quite long.
I appreciate that my fellow Americans are enthusiastic about USS Constitution's ability to fight, but it is unrealistic. There is a reason that frigates, even the U.S. super frigates, never engaged a ship of the line. In fact, they were designed to not have to!
First and second rate ships were so powerful that the British wouldn't even include third rates, not to mention frigates, in a line of battle by the time of Trafalgar (1805). The approximate weight of cannon broadsides (one side only) for the two vessels is - Constitution: 360 lbs in 1808 and Victory: 1,080 lbs in 1805. I chose 1808 for Constitution and 1805 for Victory to be roughly contemporary and I did not include carronades because Old Ironsides could never get close enough to use them.
It is marginally more equal if you compare the 100%-cannon (i.e. no carronades) configuration that each ship used at the times of their commissioning. In those configurations, Victory outguns Constitution 1,182 lbs to 456 lbs.
If you also consider that the 32 pounder cannon carried by Victory had significantly longer range than the 24 pounders carried by Constitution, Victory has even more of an advantage.
Victory had the same number of 32 pounders that Constitution had in total cannon (i.e. 30). The 42 pounders carried in lieu of 32 pounders by Victory at commissioning probably had even more range.
All of this assumes captains of equal ability, but the only chance Old Ironsides would have is if she could use her speed and maneuverability to repeatedly rake Victory, which is not at all likely. She'd lose badly.
Bellau Wood saved the USMC from being disbanded due to the budget of the USN after WW1. Zeebrugge and the Royal Marine mutiny of 1919 disbanded a few battalions at Murmansk.
US Marine batteries at both Baltimore and Craney Island checked landings of the Royal Marines and threw them back into the Atlantic.
There are countless examples of boarding parties of USM's making the RMs strike the white flag. Connie had up to 6 detachments of RMs in her hold during the 3 yr war.
Britain decided to leave her man of wars in Europe to deal with Napoleon. Had the full might of the Royal Navy turned up at the US east coast Britain would have had an even bigger victory than the victory achieved in real life.
Not really. The decisive theaters were all on the Great Lakes where the ships of the line could not sail down the St Lawrence and be of any use. Only the HMS St Lawrence presented a threat and she was dismasted by a lightning strike late in the war at a time Sackets Harbor was churning out 60 gun frigates and had a 100+ ship of the line on the docks for 1815. A whole line of 2 deckers was being built up and down the east coast that were ready for the 2nd Barbary War that just followed the War of 1812.
With regards to commanders. A Collingwood or Admiral of his quality would have greatly evened the field with regards to the greatlakes. At open sea, British man of wars would have been more than a sufficive challenge to the US frigates than the relativley even battles than ensued there with the British frigates.
Owen Jones
Could've, should've. Didn't.
Fraternity of St. George 1509 I know. Shame isn't it Trifleman.
USMarineRifleman0311 actually the St Lawrence at 110 guns was fully operational. A lightning strike in those days did not put a ship out action for long. The Americans were building two first rates at Sackets (there is a lot of dispute about the number of guns). but the British were also building two more first rates with slightly more guns than St Lawrence. The British plan for building frigates was much larger than the American one for 1815 which was surprisingly small. With the French out of the war the British were able to bring ships up to Quebec and then take the stores guns and crews further up to the lakes. The British were also building prefab frigates in England for shipment to the lakes. Another thing that had changed was that the Americans had been able to bring experienced seamen from their blockaded fleet on the coast which had been a major advantage against the Provincial marines mixture of militia and soldiers to crew their ships in the battles on the lakes. This was about to change. There was even a 44 being built on Georgian Bay. In addition the British could finally field a bigger army on the border than the Americans rather always being out numbered. This would mean Sackets itself would be under threat. Until then they had always been heavily outnumbered. It would be extremely unlikely the Americans could out build the British. The American government was running out funds, deeply in debt and had no where close to the British industrial capacity or wealth. With the end of the French the British would normally lay up ships instead they would be sent to supply the lakes.
How's Britain navy doing today?
That's all I have to say.
Lol he was too embarrassed to show the Americans losing
Wars won by the US fighting on its own
American War of Independence = US/French Victory
Northwest Indian War = US Victory
Quasi War = US Victory
Barbary Wars = US Victory
Creek War = US Victory
War of 1812 = US Victory
Peoria War = US Victory
Seminole Wars = US Victory
Black Hawk War = US Victory
Texas Revolution = Texan/US Victory
Mexican-American War = US Victory
American Civil War = US (Union) Victory
American Indian Wars = US Victory
Spanish-American War = US Victory
Philippine-American War = US Victory
World War One = US/Allied Victory
World War Two = US/Allied Victory (Accredited for solely defeating Japan, and to a smaller extent Germany and Italy)
Korean War = US/Allied Victory
Cambodian Campaign = US Victory
Invasion of the Dominican Republic = US Victory
Invasion of Grenada = US Victory
Invasion of Panama = US Victory
Cold War = US/NATO Victory
First Persian Gulf War/Desert Storm = US/Allied Victory
War in Somalia = US Victory
Iraq War = US/Allied Victory
Wars lost by Great Britain/England
1st Anglo Maratha War
Napoleonic Wars
1st Coalition
2nd Coalition
3rd Coalition
4th Coalition
5th Coalition
Pontiacs Rebellion 1763
British invasions of the Río de la Plata
Palestine 1948
Suez 1951
Greece 1948
Iraq 2007 (total withdrawal from Basrah)
Aden Emergency 1967
Cypres Emergency 1959
Turkish War of Independence 1923
Anglo Turk War 1805
Russian Intervention 1920
Aroostock War
Pig War
1st Anglo Ashanti War
3rd Anglo Afghan war
First Anglo-Mysore War
First Anglo-Maratha War
American Revolutionary War
AngloSpanish war of 1770s
2nd Anglo Dutch War
3rd Anglo Dutch War
War in the Vendée
First Anglo-Afghan War
-1919 Afghanistan:
-1880 Afghanistan
-1878 Afghanistan
-1842 Afghanistan
-1840 Afghanistan
First Boer War
Roman Conquest AD 43
Norman Conquest 1066
Hundred Years War 1337-1453
American victories over the British 1775-1783
April 19, 1775 Lexington and Concord
March 17, 1776 Siege of Boston
May 27-28, 1775 Chelsea Creek
June 11-12, 1775 Battle of Machias
August 9, 1775 Battle of Gloucester
March 4 1776 Dorchester Heights
May 10 1775 Capture of Ft. Ticonderoga
November 3 1775 Siege of Ft. Jean
March 25 1776 Battle of St Pierre
September 16 1776 Battle of Harlem Heights
December 23 1776 Battle of Iron works Hill
December 26 1776 Battle of Trenton
January 2 1777 Battle of Assuninpink Creek
Januard 3 1777 Battle of Princeton
Jan-March 1777 Forage War - NJ
January 20 1777 Battle of Millstone
August 22 1777 Battle of Ft. Stanwix
August 6 1777 Battle of Oriskany
August 16 1777 Battle of Bennington
October 1777 Saratoga campaign
June 26 1777 Battle of Short Hills
October 22 1777 Battle of Red Bank
December 8 1777 Battle of White Marsh
November 25 1777 Battle of Gloucester
June 28 1778 Battle of Monmouth
September 7-18, 1778 Siege of Boonesborough
July 1778 - February 1779 Kaskasia Vincennes
August 8, 1780 Battle of Piqua
April 1781 Choscoton
August 29 1779 Battle of Newtown
October 19 1780 Battle of Klock's Field
October 25 1781 Battle of Johnstown
November-December 1775 - Southern patriot "Snow Campaign"
December 9 1775 Battle of the Great Bridge
February 27 1776 Battle of the Creek Bridge
March 2-3 1776 Battle of the Rice Boats
June 28 1776 Battle of Sullivan's Island
July 15 1776 Battle of Lindley's Fort
April 18 1776 Frederica
February 3 1779 Battle of Beaufort
February 14 1779 Battle of Kettle Creek
June 8 1780 Battle of Mobley's Meeting House
June 20 1780 Battle of Ramsour's Mill
July 12 1780 Battle of Williamson's Plantation
July 21 1780 Battle of Colson's Mill
August 6 1780 Battle of Hanging Rock
August 18 1780 Battle of Musgrove Hill
September 21 1780 Battle of Wahab's Plantation
September 14 1780 Battle of the Black Mingo
September 26 1780 Battle of Charlotte
October 7 1780 Battle of Kingsmountain
October 14 1780 Battle of Shallow Ford
November 9 1780 Battle of Fishdam Ford
November 20 1780 Battle of Blackstock Farm
January 17 1781 Battle of the Cowpens
February 25 1781 Battle of Haw River
April 23 1781 Battle of Ft Watson
April 25 1781 Battle of Hobkirk's Hill
May 12 1781 Siege of Ft Motte
June 6 1781 Augusta
September 8 1781 Eutaw springs
25 February 1779 Vincennes
September 13 1782 2nd Siege of Ft Henry
September 10 1779 Battle of Lake Pontchartrain
March 3 1776 Capture of Nassau
March 24 1778 Capture of the HMS Drake
September 23 1779 Capture of the HMS Serapis
June 29 1776 Battle of Turtle Gut Inlet
September 8 1781 Captureof the HMS Savage
May 29 1781 Capture of the HMS Atalanta
May 29 1781 Capture of the HMS Trepassey
March 6 1783 USS Alliance defeats HMS Sybil
April 8 1782 Battle of Delaware Bay
July 1 1782 Raid on Nova Scotia
March 8 1781 Skirmish at Water's Creek
July 9 1781 Franciso beats Tarleton
July 24 1781 Francisco beats Tarleton
October 19, 1781 Yorktown
American victories over the British in 1812-14
19 July 1812 1st Sackets
21 Sept 1812 Raid on Gananoque
7 Feb 1813 Raid on Elizabethtown
27 Apr 1813 1st burning of York
31 July 1813 2nd burning of York
28-29 May 1813 2nd Sackets
May 29 1813 Big Sandy Creek
June 1 1813 US repulse of Royal Marine raid north of Sackets
6-11 Sept 1814 Plattsburgh
28 Nov 1812 Frenchman's Creek
25-27 May 1813 Capture of Ft George
14-16 May 1814 Raid on Port Dover
3 July 1814 Capture of Fort Erie
5 July 1814 Chippewa
Aug-Sept 1814 Siege of Fort Erie
5-15 Sept 1812 Siege of Ft Harrison
5-12 Sept 1812 Siege of Ft Wayne
17-18 Dec 1812 Mississinewa
28 Apr-9May 1813 Siege of Ft Meigs
2 Aug 1813 Ft Stephenson
10 Sept 1813 Victory on Lake Erie
5 Oct 1813 Thames
4 March 1814 Longwoods
29 April 1813 Elk's Landing
6 Nov 1814 Malcom's Mills
22 June 1813 Craney Island
10 August 1813 St Michaels
12 Sept 1814 North Point
31 Aug 1814 Caulk's Field
12-15 Sept 1814 Baltimore
1814 Battle of Rock Harbor - HMS Newcastle party thrown back
6 Dec 1814 Farnham church
7-9 Nov 1814 Pensacola
14-16 Sept 1814 1st Ft Bowyer
13 Dec 1814 - Jackson's probe
8 Jan 1815 New Orleans
9-18 Jan 1815 Ft St Phillip
13 Aug 1812 capture of the Alert
19 Aug 1812 capture of the Guerriere
18 Oct 1812 capture of the Frolic
25 Oct 1812 capture of the Macedonian
29 Dec 1812 capture of the Java
24 Feb 1813 sinking of the Peacock
5 Aug 1813 capture of the Dominica
5 Sept 1813 capture of the Boxer
28 Apr 1814 capture of the Epervier
28 Jun 1814 sinking of the Reindeer
1 Sept 1814 sinking of the Avon
20 Feb 1815 capture of the Levant
20 Feb 1815 capture of the Cyane
23 Mar 1815 capture of the Penguin
11 Dec 1812 capture of the Rachel
25 Mar 1813 privateer Nereyda captured
28 Mar 1813 whaler Barclay
29-Apr - 15 Sep 1813 armed whaler Montezuma
Georgiana captured
Policy captured
Atlantic captured
armed whaler Greenwich captured
Catherine captured
whaler Rose
whaler Hector
armed privateer Seringapatam
Charlton
New Zealander
whaler Sir Andrew Hammond
October 8-11 1813 US raids - Twenty Mile Creek
November 26 1813 repeat US raid Twenty Mile Creek
September 20 1814 US raids settlements in the Western District
July 31-August 1 1813 US re-raids York, burns barracks
August 28 1813 British ships detect US raiding party at York, British flee to Burlington
October 27 1813 US raid on Frelighsburg
October 12 1813 US raid in Missisiquoi Bay
October 20 1812 US raid on Odelltown
September 20 1813 US skirmishes at Odelltown
August 10 1814 officer captured in Odelltown during skirmish
October 11-13 1813 US raids in Philippsburg, Mississiquoi bay area
January 22 1814 US raids Philippsburg
March 22 1814 US captures and occupies Philippsburg
October 23 1812 US attacks captures St Regis and 28 guns (artillery)
October 4 1812 British revenge attack for Gananoque is repulsed
June 26 1813 US repulse of British attack at Pagan Creek
July 2 1813 repeat British attack at Pagan creek repulsed
March 18 1813 US capture of RN seamen
June 10 1813 US repulse of British landing on island on the York river
June 22 1813 US repulses landing at Wise Creek
July 31 1812 US privateer captures Royal Bounty off Newfoundland
September 23 1813 British withdraw from Fort Malden- subsequent US recapture
September 29, 1813 recapture of Fort Shelby
December 20 1813 US raid at Arnolds Mill
July 26 1814 US destroys Burch's Mills
May 14-16 1814 US raids at Charlotteville
July 25 1814 US raids Charlotteville
July 7th 1813 US victory at Butler's Farm (Niagara)
July 29 1813 US burns the King George Inn at Burlington
October 19 1814 US burns Cook's Mills, destroys 200 bushels of wheat
October 6 1813 US captures 6 British schooners in troop convoy - False Ducks
August 20-September 6 1814 skirmishes around Fort Erie
October 9 1812 US destroys MP brig Detroit, captures PM brig Caledonia
December 10 1813 - burning of Newark
July 1814, British withdraw from Ft St Joseph, US moves in and burns it, captures schooner
November 7 1813 British failure to stop US flotilla at Fort Wellington
March 4 1814 US repulse of British attack at De French River
October 21 1812 US raid on Gray's Mills
November 10 1813 US wins skirmish at Hoople's Creek
November 10 1812 Burlington Races
August 10-31 1814 Burlington is blockaded
May 10 1813 US party overcomes guards, burns supply building - Lake Ontario
US schooner Lady of the Lakes captures Lady Murray June 16 1813
US boats capture HM gunboat Blacksnake June 19 1813
May 14-15 1814 US raids Long Point
November 6 1814 US raids Malcom's Mills
October 7 1813 US burns Moraviantown
June 27 1814 US burns newly finished schooner at New Castle
December 10 1813 US burns Newark and St David
May 28 1813 The British evacuates all posts on the Niagara river
August 14 1814 US squadron destroys blockhouse and HM schoon Nancy on the Nottawasaga
April 5 1814 US raid on Oxford
May 14-15 1814 US raids at Patterson's Creek
May 14-15 1814 US raids and burns Dover and Port Ryerse
February 1814 US raid on Port Talbot - burned and never rebuilt
May 19 1814 US raid on Port Talbot
July 20 1814 US raid on Port Talbot
August 16 1814 US raid on Port Talbot
September 20 1814 US raid on Port Talbot
May 26 1813 US seizes British post at Queenston
December 11 1813 US burns parts of Queenston
July 7 1814 US occupies Queenston
July 18 1814 2 US gunboats capture 15 British supply boats and rebel counterattack Rockport
July 5 1812 US bombs Windsor
July 12 1812 US invades burns Sandwich
September 29 1813 US occupies Sandwich, British flee a second time
July 21 1814 US burns NW Co Trading Post, captured merchantman Sault Ste Marie
July 18 1814 US burns St David
July 22 1814 US repulses counterattack at St David
July 27 1812 US schoon Julia drives of PM schoons Moira and Gloucester
July 31 1812 3 US gigs capture British vessel of the PM RC St Lawrence
November 17 1814 US captures 2 gunboats St Lawrence
September 14 1813 US raids Sugar Loaf
October 2 1813 British fail in the attempt to destroy a bridges on the Thames
October 5 1813 US captures British supply boats on the Thames
July 9 1814 US skirmish at Thames river
January 31 1814 US skirmish captures British detachment
October 23-November 16 1814 McArthur's raids in the Thames Valley
July-August 1812 privateer Rosie captures Princess Royal, Kitty, Fame, Devonshire, Squid, Brothers,
Henry, Race-horse, Halifax, William, Two Brothers, and Jeanie off Nova Scotia
June 18 1813 US barges repulse British attempt to take sloops James river
June 22 1813 British feint at Lynnhaven Bay repulsed
December 1813 US repulses British landing party at Lynnhaven bay
December 30 1813 US repulse of British attempt to salvage grounded schooner, Lynnhaven
June 30 1812 US captures schooner Witing
June 20 1813 US flotilla repulses frigate Junon Norfolk
January 18 1814 US repulse of British attempt to burn schooner Rappahannock River
August 6 1814 US repulse of British landing Rappahannock River
July 26 1814 US repulse of British raid Lawnes Creek
June 20 1813 US repulses British attack on Ft Oswego
June 19 2013 US repulse of British raid at Sodus Point
September 1813 New Inlet, NC, US captures crewmen from the privateer Mars
February 1815 US capture of British tender at Ocracoke Bar
July 1814 US capture of raiding party from HM brig Lacedemonian S of Wilmington NC
July 18 1813 US privateers capture 15 bateuax and the gunboat Spitfire (1000 Islands)
July 21 1813 US privateers repulse British landing (1000 Islands)
July 27 1813 British attempt to capture same US privateers (Cape Vincent)
April 25 1814 British attempt to burn the frigate Superior is repulsed
July 2 1813 Small British force lands at Sackets Harbor but withdraws after detection
June 28 1814 - spars destined for the frigate Confiance captured enroute
August 3 1814 British attempt to take Buffalo NY is repulsed
June 14-15 1814 Port Charlotte US repulses raid
May 30 1812 US seizes and destroys Fort Haldimand
May 22 1815 US reoccupies Fort Niagara
November 1-2 1813 British naval attack on French creek is driven off with hot shot
April 29 1813 US repulse of landing at Elkton
July 20 1813 US captures large convoy of bateaux
July 12 1814 US repulse of repeat attempt at Elkton
September 14 1814 US repulse of landing at Fort Babcock
October 31 1814 US repulse of British attack at Kirby's Wind Mill
February 7 1815 capture of sloop Dauntless
June 14 1814 HMS Nimrod is driven off and landing aborted
June 5 1812 brig Oneida captures PM schooner Lord Nelson
November 10 1812 Growler captures Elizabeth
August 5 1814 Sylph drives off HMS Magnet, forces it aground (Ontario)
October 6 1813 US capture of 7 British transports
August 9 1812 attempted British attack on US supply train is repulsed
March 18 1814 US raids at Cockerel creek
June 3 1813 US repulse of British raid Harris Creek
May 12 1813 US repulse of British landing Horn Harbor - Mobjack bay
Aprill 11 1813 US RC Thomas Jefferson captures 3 barges and take 69 POWs
March 1813 US raid Craney Island
June 2 1813 US repulse of British raid at Harris Creek
October 4-5 1814 US raid on Northumberland Courthouse
April 4 1813 US repulse of British landing Chewning Point Carter Creek
May 14 1814 US repulse of British attempt to destroy shipping Vergennes (Otter Creek)
June 2-3 1813 US repulse of British raid Blake River
February 11 1813 British lose skirmish at Cape Henry
July 14 1813 US attack and capture of British landing party
March 10 1813 US repulse of British raid Cape Charles
August 2 1813 US repulse of HM sloops Broke and Shannon at Burlington
July 31 1813 British 3 day cannonade is driven off by return American fire - Burlington
May 14 1812 US cannonade of Fort Cassin
October 12 1813 US attack and capture of British garrisson at Missisquoi
October 4 1813 USRC Vigilant captures Dart off Block Island
September 25 1813 US repulse of Indian/British/Canadian attack at Miami rapids
August 2 1813 US repulse of British attack at Fort Stephenson
July 29 1812 US gunboats attack HMS Junon (frigate aground)
October 23 1812 US captures British post at French Mills
July 11 1813 US drives off attackers on Fort Schlossler
June 26 1812 US captures Carleton Island on the St Lawrence
June 3 1813 Gunboats drive off british sloop Herald out of Mobile Bay
April 8 1814 US booby trap kills 11 in New London
August 9 1814 Ineffectual British cannonade at Stonginton
29 June 1812 US gunboats capture 3 British merchant ships off Spanish Florida
February 24 1815 American ambush British troops at St Mary's River
Januar 25 1815 Barataria Island skirmish
December 8 1814 US gunboats force retreat of HM frigate Armide
January 1 1815 US artillery duel with Royal Artillery
French victories over the British 1745-1815
May 1745 Fontenoy French victory -
Oct 1746 Roucoux French victory -
July 1747 Lauffeldt French victory -
Nov 1747 Berge-op-Zoom French victory -
1748 Maastricht French victory -
July 1754 Fort Necessity French Victory
July 1755 Monongahela River French Victory
Aug 1756 Oswego French victory -
July 1757 Hastenbeck French victory -
Aug 1757 Fort William Henry French victory -
Jul 1758 Ticonderoga French victory -
Oct 1781 Yorktown American-French victory -
Aug-Dec 1793 Toulon French victory
6-8 Sep 1793 Hondeschoote French victory -
17-18 May 1794 Tourcoing French victory -
22 Aug 1798 Killala Bay French victory -
27 Aug 1798 Castlebar French victory -
5 Sep 1798 Callooney French victory -
8 Sep 1798 Ballinamuck French victory -
19 Sep 1799 Bergen Op Zoom French victory -
6 Oct 1799 Casstricum French victory -
16 Jan 1809 Coruna French victory -
27 June 1809 Casa de Salinas French victory -
July-Dec 1809 Walcheren French victory -
16-24 May 1810 Siege of Mequinenza French victory -
10 July 1810 Barquilla French victory -
24 July 1810 Coa River French victory
11 Aug 1810 Villagarcia French victory -
13 Oct 1810 Fuengirola Polish-French victory -
April-May 1811 Blockade of Almeida French victory -
April-May 1811 2nd Siege of Badajoz French victory -
5 May 1811 Fuentes de Onoro French
May-June 1811 3rd Siege of Badajoz French victory -
June 1811 Operations around Almeida French victory -
22 June 1811 Elvas French victory -
25 Sep 1811 El Bodon French victory.
29 Dec 1811 Membrillo French victory -
11 April 1812 Villagarcia French victory -
11 June 1812 Maguilla French victory -
18 July 1812 Castrejon French victory -
11 Aug 1812 Malajahonda French victory -
Sep-Oct 1812 Siege of Burgos French victory.
23 Oct 1812 Venta del Pozo French victory -
25 Oct 1812 Villa Muriel French victory -
28 Oct 1812 Tordesillas French victory -
17 Nov 1812 San Munoz French victory -
June 1813 Siege of Tarragona French victory -
24 June 1813 Villafranca French victory -
25 July 1813 Roncesvalles French victory -
25 July 1813 Maya French victory -
July-Aug 1813 Siege of San Sebastian French-Alliesvictory -
26-28 July 1813 Sorauren French-Allies victory -
July-Aug 1813 Blockade of Tarragona French victory -
2 Aug 1813 Lizaso French victory -
Ordal and Villafranca French victory -
7 Oct 1813 Vera French victory -
16 Jan 1814 Molins de Rey French victory -
Feb-April 1814 Siege of Bayonne French victory -
8 March 1814 Bergen op Zoom French victory -
17 March 1814 Daunia's Raid French victory -
19 March 1814 Vic-Bigorre French victory -
10 April 1814 Toulouse draw
14 April 1814 Bayonne French victory -
16 June 1815 Quatre Bras draw ? victory ?
17 June 1815 Genappe French victory -
Turkish victories over the British
Anglo-Turkish War (1807-1809)
Gallipoli 1915
Al Kut 1915
Dujaila 1916
Hanna 1916
Wadi 1916
Sheikh Sa'ad 1916
Ctesiphon 1915
Katia 1916
Gaza 1917
2nd Gaza 1917
Bir el Abb 1916
Jordan 1918
Transjordan 1918
Krithia 1915
2nd Krithia 1915
3rd Krithia 1915
4th Krithia 1915
Cape Hellis 1915
Anzac Cove 1915
Nr. 3 Post 1915
Suvla 1915
Sari Bair 1915
The Nek 1915
Chunuk Bair 1915
Scimitar Hill 1915
Boer Victories over the British
Battle of Bronkhorstspruit -20 December 1880
Siege of Rustenburg 27 December 1880-30 March 1881
Siege of Marabastad 1 January 1880-2 April 1881
Siege of Lydenburg 6 January 1881 - 30 March 1881
Battle of Laing's Nek 28 January 1881
Battle of Schuinshoogte 8 February 1881
Kraipaan October 1899
Ladysmith 30 October 1899
Stormberg 10 December 1899
Magersfontein 11 December 1899
Colenso December 1899
Spion Kopp January 1900
Vaal Krantz February 1900
Bloody Sunday February 1900
Sanna's Post March 1900
Leliefontein November 1900
Mooietegedacht December 1900
Elands River September 1901
Blood River Port September 1901
Bakenlaagte October 1901
Groenkop December 1901
Tweebosch March 1902
Japanese Victories over the British
Dec 1941 - Malaya
Dec 1941 - Singapore
Dec 1941 - Op. Krohcol
Dec 1941 - HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse are sunk
Dec 1941 - Jitra
Dec 1941 - Gurun
Jan 1942 - Slim River
Jan 1942 - Muar
Jan 1942- Endau
Feb 1942 - Sarimbun Beach
Feb 1942 - Kranji
Feb 1942 - Bukit Timah
Feb 1942 - Pasir Panjang
-at this point: 60,500 casualties/40,000 POW
Feb 1942 - Bilin River
Feb 1942 - Sittang Bridge
March 1942 - Prome
May 1943 - Arakan - 5,000 KIA/WIA
Surrender of Singapore - 120,000 POW
-largest British garrison in the world at the time, larger than London
Surrender of Hong Kong - 15,000 POW
German victories over the British WW1
23 August 1914 - Battle of Mons - 250 mile retreat from Belgium
26 August 1914 - Battle of Le Cateau
26 August 1914 - Battle of Le Grand Fayt
27 August 1914 - Battle of Étreux
28 September - 10 October 1914 - Siege of Antwerp
Wednesday 21 April - 25 May 1915 - Second Battle of Ypres - 70,000 casualties
9 May - 18 June 1915 - Second Battle of Artois - 28,000 casualties
9 May 1915 - Battle of Aubers Ridge
15-25 May 1915 - Battle of Festubert
25 September - 4 November 1915 - Third Battle of Artois - 60,000 casualties
25 September - 14 October 1915 - Battle of Loos - 60,000 casualties
1 July - 18 November 1916 - Battle of the Somme - 620,000 casualties
1-13 July 1916 - Battle of Alberty - 57,000 casualties 1st day
19-20 July 1916 - Battle of Fromelles
25 September 1916 - Capture of Lesbœufs
7 October - 16 November 1916 - Butte de Warlencourt
9 October 1917 - Battle of Poelcappelle
12 October 1917 - First Battle of Passchendaele
21 March - 5 April 1918 - Operation Michael - 177,000 casualties - retreat starts
7-29 April 1918 - Battle of the Lys
German/Axis defeats inflicted onto the British in Africa, at sea or elsewhere (WW1):
27-29 April 1916 - gassed their own troops at Hulluch
29 - 31 August 1914 - First Battle of Garua
6 September 1914 - Battle of Nsanakong
1 May - late June 1915 -First Battle of Jaunde
26 September 1914 -Battle of Sandfontein
20 September 1914 - Battle of Zanzibar
November 3, 1914 -Battle of Kilimanjaro
3-5 November 1914 - Battle of Tanga
18-19 January 1915 - Battle of Jassin
February 12, 1916 - Battle of Salaita
9-11 September 1916 - Battle of Dutumi
7-11 September 1916 - Battle of Kisaki
3-4 January 1917 - Battle of Behobeho
15-18 October 1917 - Battle of Mahiwa
25 November 1917 - Battle of Ngomano
3-5 November 1914 - Battle of Tanga
16 January 1916 - Action of 16 January 1916
10 March 1917 - Action of 10 March 1917
22 September 1914 - Bombardment of Madras
22 September 1914 - Bombardment of Papeete
1 November 1914 - Battle of Coronel
7 September, 1914 - Fanning Raid
16 December 1914 - Raids on Scarborough, Hartlepool and Whitby
22 September 1914 - The Action of 22 September 1914
10 February 1916 - Battle of Dogger Bank
24 April 1916 - Bombardment of Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft
26-27 October 1916 - Battle of Dover Strait (1916)
17 October 1917 - Action off Lerwick
23 April 1918 - Zeebrugge Raid - 600 Royal Marine casualties
23-24 April 1918 - First Ostend Raid
9 May 1918 - Second Ostend Raid
28 July-10 August 1914 - Naval Pursuit of Goeben and Breslau
19 February - 18 March 1915 - Naval Operations in the Dardanelles Campaign
14-15 May 1917 - Battle of the Strait of Otranto
German victories over the British - WW2
18 December 1939 - Battle of the Heligoland Bight
22-26 May 1940 - Siege of Calais - 4,000 POW
21 May 1940 - Battle of Arras
22-25 May 1940 -Battle of Boulogne
28 May - 4 June 1940 - Battle of Abbeville
26 May-4 June 1940 - Battle of Dunkirk - 40,000 POW
17 November 1940 - Operation White
27 November 1940 - Battle of Cape Spartivento
9-16 September 1940 - Italian invasion of Egypt
3-19 August 1940 - Italians take British Somaliland
25-28 February 1941 - Operation Abstention
26 March 1941 - Sinking of HMS York
26-27 May 1941 - Operation Skorpion
15-17 June 1941 - Operation Battleaxe - 100 tanks lost
10-18 November 1941 - Operation Flipper
17 December 1941 - First Battle of Sirte
19 December 1941 - Raid on Alexandria
24-25 April 1941 - Battle of Thermopylae
13 April 1941 -Battle of Ptolemaida
11-12 April 1941 - Battle of Vevi
20 May 1941 - 1 June 1941 - Surrender of Crete 17,000 POW
9-12 September 1941 - Convoy SC 42
5-10 August 1942 - Convoy SC 94
29 October-4 November 1942 - Convoy SC 107
4-7 February 1943 -Convoy SC 118
5 November 1940 - Convoy HX-84
8 June 1940 - Operation Juno
9 April 1940 - first naval battle of Narvik
9 April-8 June 1940 - Battle of Narvik
April and early May, 1940 - Åndalsnes landings
April and early May, 1940 -Namsos Campaign
9 April 1940 - Action off Lofoten
21 May 1940 - HMS Effingham scuttled
May 24, 1940 - Operation Alphabet - British evacuation of 26,000
8 June 1940 - British carrier HMS Glorious is sunk by German ships
28 April 1942 - Convoy QP 11
5 May 1942 - St Albans accidentally sank supporting Polish submarine ORP Jastrząb
25 May 1942 - German aircraft attacks sink 6 British vessels, damage 5 more
24 June 1942 - A StG 5 Ju 87 sank HMS Gossamer in Kola Bay
20 September 1942 - U-435 sank HMS Leda
20 September 1942 - U-255 sank 4937-ton Silver Sword
20 September 1942 - U-703 sank HMS Somali
20 September 1942 - U-435 sank 5345-ton Bellingham, Ocean Voice and Grey Ranger
2 November 1942 - U-586 sank 6640-ton Empire Gilbert
30 January 1943 - U-278 sank HMS Hardy
19 November 1941 - Battle between HMAS Sydney and German auxiliary cruiser Kormoran
31 March - 10 April 1942 - Indian Ocean raid
5 and 9 April 1942 - Easter Sunday Raid on Ceylon
14 May 1942: A KG 30 Ju 88 dive bomber sank HMS Trinidad
30 January 1941-18 February 1941 - Convoy HX.106
4 April 1941 - Action of 4 April 1941
10--28 May 1941 - Convoy HX.126
24 May 1941 - Battle of the Denmark Strait
22-25 August 1942 - Convoy ON 122
9-14 September 1942 - Convoy ON 127
12-16 October 1942 - Convoy SC 104
15-18 November 1942 - Convoy ON 144
26-30 December 1942 - Convoy ON 154
3-12 January 1943 - Convoy TM 1
6-10 March 1943 - Convoy SC 121
20-25 February 1943 - Convoy ON 166
10-11 March 1943 - Convoy HX 228
16-19 March 1943 - Convoy HX 229/SC 122
22 to 23 October 1943 - Battle off Sept-Îles
11-13 February 1942 - Channel Dash
11-12 February 1942 - Channel Dash
26 May - 21 June 1942 - Battle of Gazala
29 September 1942 - Operation Braganza
22 March 1942 - Second Battle of Sirte
12-15 June 1942 -Operation Harpoon
12-16 June 1942 - Operation Vigorous
9-15 August 1942 - Operation Pedestal
19 August 1942 - Dieppe Raid
13-14 September 1942 - Operation Agreement - SAS and Royal Marines decimated
10 November-25 December 1942 - The Run for Tunis
11 December 1942 - Raid on Algiers
16 April 1943 - Battle of the Cigno Convoy
8 September - 22 November 1943 - Dodecanese Campaign
26 September - 16 November 1943 Battle of Leros 110+ RAF aircraft lost
3-4 October 1943 - Battle of Kos - 1,400 British POWs
6 November 1943 - Action off Cape Bougaroun
7-14 June 1944 - Operation Perch
11 June 1944 - Battle of Le Mesnil-Patry
18-20 July 1944 - Operation Goodwood 300+ tanks lost
19-25 July 1944 - Battle of Verrières Ridge
July 25-27, 1944 - Operation Spring
14-21 August 1944 - Operation Tractable - high allied casualties due to friendly fire
17-26 September 1944 - Battle of Arnhem 7,000 POW
22-23 October 1944 - Operation Pegasus 140 British paratroopers rescued
16 December 1941- March 1942 - Battle of Borneo
13-15 February 1942 - Battle of Palembang
18-20 February 1942 - Battle of Badung Strait
19 February 1942 - 10 February 1943 - Battle of Timor
27 February 1942 - Battle of the Java Sea
28 February - 1 March 1942- Battle of Sunda Strait
28 February-12 March 1942 - Battle of Java
1 March 1942 - Battle of the Java Sea (II)
March 20 - March 26, 1944 - Battle of Sangshak
USMarineRifleman0311 funny thing is though, most of those weren't US victories, they were just battles they were involved in. copy and paste is a bitch.
@@USMarineRifleman0311 you're very butthurt
i was to visit HMS Victoty in the port of portsmouth and i swear you can feel the smell of the glory and naval power on that ship respect for all mighty British Naval Power greetings from Romania
@BradPanoff, "old Ironsides" was the nickname of the USS Constitution, not because it's sides were made from iron but because an American sailor shouted "Huzzah! It's sides are of iron!" when a cannonball bounced off the hull.
This is a computer "game," but at least, the programmers could have got one thing correct. Watch, and you will see, many times, the sails are completely furled, then flown full, then refurled, etc. That would not have happened due to the crews being engaged in battle and very few would be working the sails and they would not have had the time to repeatedly furl then unfurl. Just a minor but important observation from an old RN salt.
Did you know that the Victory can do such a powerful broadside that she could sink a flagship and kill 200 men in one broadside using all of her canons
The operative word is, "could," not can. The other problem is that a "canon" cannot usually kill anybody for it is not any kind of weapon of war. However, a canon can be enacted upon to pass a death sentence by a religious court. Rather it is a religious (church) rule or law enacted by a council. Please, try to put your brain in gear before operating a keyboard, passing on knowledge or making a factual statement because otherwise, somebody will crucify you for your mistake. Also, a broadside is normally fired from one side not both sides, as you imply unless firing at targets on both sides of the ship which is/was unusual. I served in the Royal Navy and we never did that even with blank shells when doing target practice or just training.
+Wotdermatter It's for gameplay purposes. If it was TOO realistic it wouldn't be as fun.
+Anthony Evans Did you know that the ship never did a broadside in her history?, Ship couldn't handle it structurally
+CaptAmericaUSAF Did you know that that is probably the most absurd nonsense ever written? She fired many, many broadsides during her very long and illustrious career, not least as Nelson's flagship at the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805. She was the lead ship of one of the two columns and was the second British ship to break the French line. Before Trafalgar she fought in the First Battle of Ushant (1777), Second Battle of Ushant (1780), The Siege of Gibraltar (1782) and the battle of Cape St. Vincent (1797).
Victory is large, but by no means the largest first rate built. That record goes to the Spanish La Santisima Trinidad, a 136 gun four-decker! And she too fired many broadsides during her career.
RULE BRITTANIA
Not an accurate model of the constitution at all
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/USS_Constitution_Departs.jpg/1200px-USS_Constitution_Departs.jpg
Looks pretty spot on to me.
FYI, the American's built six frigates at the end of the 18th century. Three were identical with 44+ guns, Constitution, President, and the United States. Three were slightly smaller with 38+ guns. The Congress, Constellation, and Chesapeake. All were designed and built with live oak frames by Joshua Humphreys and were the fastest and most powerful Frigates ever built. These ships were so feared that 13 months into the Wo1812, British Admiralty forbid any single ship engagements with them.
try skirmishing a 1st rate with a frigate in empire,
there's a reason the were called 'ship of the line'
those floating fortresses were made to fight in a line, because the bow and the stern were vulnerable, and as speed and handling were scarce were low that meant that you could just skirt in front of it, and shoot it till she died (you have to remember that just a few holes in the hull at the bottom would sink a ship, even with the pumps they carried)
of course britain medieval ships were the best and also spanish ships usa was just created and think they can?
srry for bad english
SHUT UP the constitution took down 5 British ships
Timothy Murphy and....
***** I didnt mean that this ship or britain were powerfull, i mean that british have a big history on earth, not just britain but spain, portugal....
***** yes!! :)
Just to add one bit of American perspective to this clearly British pride fest, and please keep in mind I have a high degree of respect for the U.K., especially considering our English friends are the only true friend we have on a global scale. But to keep things I perspective of military prowess and tact on a battlefield, if memory serves the mighty British Royal forces were defeated soundly by a rag tag band of colonists with little to no official military training, yes some were former Regulars but as a whole calling them an army would be stretching the truth. And as an added insult the great Lord Cornwallis was reported to have said to one of his top Generals "They are nothing more than a bunch of farmers with pitchforks, how hard can it be" (it) meaning finding and defeating the colonial forces. Now as stated previous, I have a great deal of respect for our cousins from across the pond, but the strength and abilities of our respective armed forces would be akin to comparing apples to oranges, each have their strengths, and each have their weaknesses.
I believe Britain was also at war with France and Spain at the time also.
That is only because at the time Britain didn't know how to take no for an answer, the empire wanted the world and nothing less would suffice
David Lamb I'm just correcting what you said. I have no interest in a pointless internet discussion. All I ask is that you at least learn what you are talking about before you type up a comment in the future.
Metal00m I can understand and agree with your statement, but if like you said if you take time to actually read what I said, I wasn't being biased or trying to correct anyone. What I was doing was trying to say that pounding your British chest touting how great and mighty the royal forces of the time were is a moot point. Especially since the obvious point was made that the Constitution and the Victory would never face off in battle, but also that it would be much easier and mutually beneficial if we all could just agree that both ships were amazing and beautiful, there were equal positive and negative attributes to both.
Nice story about the US in Afghanistan.
Are you serious what A stupid game , The HMS Victory Would have Rekt the US
Not is the US had a first rate ship of the line or second rate. :3
Pound for pound, the Royal Navy is the best.
was
tb marq XD
tb marq Actually, one could argue still is the best.
It's like clubbing a baby seal for the victory.
The Victory carried 2x as many guns as the Constitution, not counting her carronades which the Royal Navy didn’t include in the count. At Trafalgar she carried 2 carronades firing 68lb solid and case shot.
You’ll see Constitution’s 32lb carronades are mounted higher up because they were short barrelled and weighed about a 1/4 of Victory’s 32 lb long guns. They used about 1/4 to 1/3 the powder as well. Carronades were regarded as close quarter guns accurate up to 500 yards, while the long guns went out to over 2000.
Constitution’s 32 lb guns would have been outranked by Victory’s 24lb guns, never mind her 32 lb guns.
Captain David Porter of USS Essex complained when the navy replaced his 12-pounder long guns with 32-pounder carronades.
Not for Old Ironsides. She is still a commisioned US Naval vessel and sails at least once a year. I am not sure of the Victory but she is kept in great condtion aswell.
Like so many have said, the Connie would have been best to stay far away, I love our frigate, but it's like putting the uss Eisenhower against the hood, not even a contest.. I absolutely love both ships, I've built both of these, love them!
I I may be wrong rather than trade broadside for broadside but as I have read it French gunners were told to fire on the Role to elevate the cannons firepower and try to disable a superior enemy ship by by staking out as much rigging and sails to give them a chance to get away. British ship in side to side combat would attempt to go hard a starboard or port, as guns bear fire a stern take broadside. This would completely sweep the cannon deck killing everyone and destroying all cannons and additionally bring down all the masts making the enemy ship completely vulnerable to boarding or complete destruction. A stern rake is complete devastation the cannonballs travel stern to bow of the enemy.
Good to know people still talk crap on the Internet as opposed to commenting on a video.
Whoever was driving the Constitution in this vid has a lot to learn about tactics. Frigates can take on first rates alone, I've done it in ETW and I take smaller ships against larger ones all the time in another ship game called Pirates of the Burning Sea. The problem here is the Constitution's driver doesn't take advantage of Victory's main weakness, slow speed and lack of maneuverability. You could stern camp by zigzagging across Victory's stern using bar shot, then finish her with round.
love how this was filmed on one of the greatest RTS series of games in history, the 'Empire Total War' game
Joshua Humphreys designed the 1794 Naval Act frigates to be able to defeat anything in their class and to run from anything that outclassed them. His designs proved their worth after the Constitution defeated the Guerriere and Java and the United States defeated the Macedonian, a stunned Royal Navy ordered their ships not to engage any American heavy frigates unless they had overwhelming numbers.
There's been more than one HMS Victory you numpty. Yes that particular one you mentioned did sink, however it was rebuilt and launched in 1765. This is the boat that currently resides in Portsmouth, and is the one dipicted in Empire: Total War as the game is set between 1700 and the early 19th century.
A lot of British Naval success at the time was due to the strict policy we had of attacking every enemy ship spotted, even if the odds were heavily against us. In big ship battles it was due to superior training, strategy and Admirals such as Nelson that made us so successful, but in smaller conflicts are aggressiveness caused our enemies to fear us. However, despite the development of this reputation, some people say this caused us more harm than good.
The designers of the first US Navy frigates knew they couldn't construct anything that could go toe-to-toe with a European First or Second Rate line-of-battle ship mounting 74 to over 100 guns and carrying a much bigger compliment of marines. They were built as the 'cruisers' of their day with sufficient speed to get away from a ship of the line like Victory.
Sorry youre right! The earlier version of the HMS victory was sunk near the English channel. The one we are talking about is a early replica of the first one, it survived!! :D
Actually a pretty fair fight simply because of the size of the HMS Victory. The Constitution was light-years ahead of the British ships of the same size, and I think it could hold up to the Victory IRL. The live oak hull would bounce most of the Victories shot, while the Victory's side would be more easily penetrated by the Constitution's long guns and carronades.
@Oricelis Don't forget that Victory had been modernized more than once. While she was an older design than Constitution, all her guns had been replaced, her rigging changed and several other alterations had been made. While slower than Constitution, she was in fact very fast and manourable as first rates went.
Constitution during the war of 1812 was rated as a 44 gun Frigate Lower deck was long 24 pounders upper 32 short barrel guns. Most Bri, were 12/18 pounders lower/24 pounders ahort barrel.
Dude this isn't some random British ship this is the best the British navy could produce its lower deck were long 32 pounders followed by long 24 pounders then 2 decks of 12 pounders, the constitution on its best day could only deflect the 12 pounders
@@SHIELDEDGamez Was comparing to Bri Frigates, no she dould not stand up to a ship of the line. was just showing that it had more fire power than tha average British Frigate
Captain of the HMS Victory: "Gentlemen, the day is ours."
Crew: "Huzza! Huzza! Huzza!!!"
Starting in the mid-1800's, Canada and the US began to develop such a strong friendship that we now have the longest unguarded border in the entire World...because we trust each other. We share a common language, very similar culture, and a common heritage. Canada is also our biggest trading partner. We also come into contact with Canadians very frequently, specially in the winter months when they all come down to vacation here in the US. I admire and respect Canada. It's a very beautiful nation
@rappey USS Constitution was not actually in Master and Commander. She was the inspiration for Acheron, and Peter Weir, the director, did have a great deal of pictures of Constitution taken.
However, the Acheron of the film, alas, only exists there. She is but CG images and miniatures. HMS Surprise was actually HMS Rose, a reproduction from the 1970s. She is now owned by San Diego Maritime Museum.
Funnily enough the only two age of sail ships in active service, just goes as a staple of how much better Britain was in those days. One proudest of the British fleet, the vessel they kept as their flagship, was a 104 gun 1st rate, while the US had only frigate to show.
Under the existing tactics of the day, the only chance the Constitution would have has would be to rake the Victory's stern multiple times without taking a full broadside of victory's far heavier broadside.
When sailing ships were stripped for action, all bulkheads were stored below the waterline and the ship became one long corridor inside. Shot coming through the stern could travel the entire length of the ship, unless it hit something substantial (masts, guns, etc.).
However, it's unlikely that Victory's captain would allow his ship to be rakes like that without a response.
They're the two oldest commissioned warships on the planet.
Blueongold. If you recheck your history. The British Admiralty considered the Constitution to be the best frigate aflout at that time. The British Navy put out an order that she was not to be engaged alone by anything smaller than a ship of the line. Nevertheless, she was not designed to engage a ship as large and well gunned as the Victory.
A single decker of only 44 guns against a two decker with 104 guns, you do the math of who wins
Most people do not know about the American 74's. The USS North Carolina was considered by many as the most powerful ship in the world.
The things that helped make the Constitution powerful also went for the 74's. By this time, England had been building ships for 500 years but had planted none for it. You have to see how ships were made back then, trees were marked years earlier because they had a certain shape. If you did not have a tree shaped like that, you had problems. And the American's ships used a "secret anti hogging" added to their hulls so they could be longer and thus faster.
America was settled by England and one big reason was its trees and tree by-products. Russia was invaded by Napoleon because of England trading with it, or "Russia allowing the trade" of trees. A big one being old, long pines for ship's masts. So it was kind of important but we do not think about it.
America had a few things going for it here. One was a mix of two kinds of Oak trees they used in the sides that no one else had. And they were longer and faster, the 74's were really a "cut-down" heavier ship. The Victory was a hog, it was big and very slow. England did not want its ships to be fast, they wanted them to be able to stay in a line battle. I'd consider it like the ship Yamato vs the Iowa. The Iowa was made of better steel and was faster with great guns. The Victory was made to be big and slow.
As far as the Constitution, it's guns were larger and "longer" than most ships, they had a long range. As it was fast. The problem in this video is whoever is playing the Constitution. I'd use my speed to stay away and rake with broadsides vs Victory's front or rear guns.
American sailing ships carried a lot of anti rigging rounds, more than even the French (which I did not know). So the Constitution would have tried to shoot their rigging and if so, they could of taken them one on one.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_North_Carolina_(1820)
I'm well aware of this but that doesn't change anything. The Shannon was a newer ship with an outstanding gunnery crew. The fact that both the Chesapeake and President were both captured by the British doesn't change how badass the American frigates were. It just proves, in all cases, that a ship is only as good as the men who sail her.
It's a fortress in a sense, because the "taller" ship, akin to men on taller walls, have a critical advantage - the ability to fire their guns directly down into the enemy's innards. The strength of a man-of-war was in the thick ribbing and multi-layered timber of its hull. The Victory, already have a massive advantage in that regard, would be able to bypass the Conny's protection altogether, firing directly down on the crew and into the gun decks. Conny would be rendered a bloody shambles.
Thats your opinion. Anyone who has read up on Napoleonic era naval warfare has read of mismatched and lopsided victories happening, which did include frigates taking on 1st rates by boarding action going deck to deck killing crewmen and winning.
The Constitution was faster than the entire British squadron off Halifax, the Victory would be no match for it in speed, all she'd have to do is fire a broadside of hot shot into its rigging.
2,3 vs 1 frigates is a tougher fight.
It's sobering to know that the Victory's first broadside, when she cut the French line at Trafalgar, killed 400 Frenchmen.
They weren't so poorly trained as you think. Baron von Steuben deserves way more credit than he's usually given. In the Battle of Monmouth Court House, the colonials were every bit as disciplined as the redcoats.
Morgan's victory at Cowpens was pure tactical genius.
Ya'll are playing the what if game. We can try all we want but it is interesting that they are around the same age and both are basically still afloat. HMS Victory is in permanent dry dock and U.S.S. Constitution comes out of hers every now and then.
You wouldn't dare let Victory catch You with a broadside! And keep Him from stealing the wind.
Kudos on the animation, very realistic. I suspect you have studied sailing ships for sometime. Thank you for sharing, I enjoyed watching the engagement.
How has he studied ships for sometime? This is the one of the dumbest and silliest videos of all time. No frigate would dare fight a 1st Rate, not even a 3rd Rate. And one broadside from the victory would be able to knock the Constitution out of action.
Also a large part of the British military was held up in the Peninsular campaign and the Royal Navy was busy blocking French trade.
In general it was a war that neither side could hope to really win with or without Napoleon. Like you said, 3000 miles of sea is a big problem in the 19th century.
Blimey! Their sail drill is bloody quick.
I like how many of the most significant battles were fought 'after' the peace treaty was signed. xD
These two battlewagons were in an entirely different class. I am American and although The Constitution was well built she would have been out sized and out gunned. There were not many ships of the line like the Victory. She struck fear into every ship she went up against for good reason. Well trained well gunned with one of the most genius ship master who ever sailed the high seas.
@Oricelis It's not about size, guns or sail design. It's about the crew and how they are trained for battle and by the outcome of the battles the H.M.S Victory was in. I wouldn't dismiss her just like that.
lol at 1:44 the guy was like "HEY!!! YOU FORGOT THE CAPTAIN!!!!!!
no correction, the victory was never destroyed. The ship is in portsmouth and it is the actual ship, i know because i have seen it myself
you know what guy... take a razee/24pounder frigate, and a heavy first rate, play as the frigate, take out first rates sails while trying not to get a broadside, then sit like a duck why the ship of the line is crawling towards you (stay at its bow) and see if you cant sink it
i recommend having the wind and 1st rate coming up behind you,
Indeed. Also, the Victory is a first-rate ship of the line, while the Constitution is only a frigate.
I am Canadian so mostly unbiased however the USS constitutions primary use was in a war against us and let’s not forget who won the war of 1812 and burned the whitehouse to the ground. But I have seen constitution in person in Boston and she is beautiful. I was actually there when they flooded her dry doc again in I think 2017 was the year.
These ships would never see each other and if they did constitution would run as fast as possible away. She was a good ship but no ship other than the Spanish “nuestra senora de la santisma Trinidad” and other 1st rates could handle victory’s broadside. The constitution was 13 knots fast she was light and powerful and was an amazing ship for a small young nation to have. But victory is heavy as hell and had so much sail that she could put out 11 knots for her size and she hailed from a colossal world power with the biggest navy at the time. The royal navies men had the most training so victory would be more efficient than the constitution in battle. The constitution would barely be able to out run victory 2 knots speed difference is nothing. And even with constitutions “iron hull” she wouldn’t stand a chance. But again this battle would never ever happen even if it got close to happening the constitutions captain would know not to go on a suicide mission against a 1st rate. Britain ruled the seas until the 20th century when America started industrializing quickly which is the first time it became a world power and not just a small nation. Britain has been a relatively huge nation since the dark ages with their barbaric ways. It’s no surprise why in history they dominate.
Yup. Look into the Crown Agents and Club of the Isles. The British Empire NEVER went away and it is utterly mind-numbing just how vast its control over the world's resources today are. "Just beneath the skin of history, are London's veins." All the best!
in this battle victory used all 3 kinds of ammo
Practically any ship can turn faster than another could sail around them, even a relatively lumbering ship of the line against a nippy frigate. Any frigate, even a very powerful one like Constitution, would retreat when opposed by any ship of the line, never mind a first rate like Victory. Shooting off the rudder could potentially do the trick, but isn't as easy as you make it out to be.
I live in Portsmouth, England and I've been on/in the Victory, its so cool :D
Господи 13 лет. Спасибо данному видосику за то что подарил любовь к парусному флоту!:)
Agreed, but technically she was known as a 'Large Frigate'. She was more than a match for a frigate but she would have to make use of her speed and run when faced with a ship of the line.
She wasn't more than a match for a british frigate, all her opponents were smaller than her. And when compared to more even engagements by her sister-ships, USS Chesapeake and President, who lost against british frigates of equal sizes
As a Heavy Frigate the Constitution was fast enough to run from the bigger ships and big enough to beat anything she couldn't run away from. The British considered the US Frigates to be "Super Frigates" in that they were typically better than a standard frigate. Although when your entire navy consists of just 5 frigates it is logical to put what money you have into that type of warship. Britain obviously put its money into the first rate ships.
However, that is a best case scenario assuming that the victory hadn't been able to fight back. The first broadside would have aimed at the constitution's gun decks and maybe another one or two broadsides would have almost certainly crippled the constitution's sail and fighting ability, and then a boarding action would have finished her off. It's safe to say a 104 gunner first rate like the victory could have decimated a 44 gun frigate like the constitution.
Don't worry about some sad troll in his mom's basement making stupid comments. Almost all Americans love the UK and have deep respect for your history. If I'm not mistaken, surveys show that the UK is the second most loved foreign country here, second only to Canada. As for Lord Nelson, he was a great man. I have a model of his ship in my office, and an old English pipe tamper with Nelson's image that I still use whenever I feel like smoking some pipe tobacco.