You Were Right, It's Been Changed! [2.5 Holy Fire Paladin Build/Dragondin]
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- After some mentions by viewers, decided to go back and test some more stacking auras and behaviour differences in D2R vs LoD - decided to do it for the 2.5 refresher on the Dragondin since it has less variable damage than the Tesladin, and with the inclusion of Sunder charms, the Dragondin really does feel like it is actually taking a decent lead over the tesladin in raw utility and power.
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![This Build Destroys Everything [ 2.5 FoHammerdin Paladin Build ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OQJEBT_kKq8/mqdefault.jpg)
Glad to see that the Dragondin get again some love
I got to build my first Auradin today. Very happy with the results. Not as OP as the Blizz Sorc or even the Hammerdin (in some areas) on p8, but very versatile and fun. On p1 it's a joke and I imagine it gets boring fast. But if you want to level in terror zones with friends it's perfect.
yea, it's more of a fun build than a speed build :) - honestly orders of magnitude more interesting to me than normal farmming builds, since it plays with a lot more mechanics.
@@Alzorath I just dropped a bunch of FG and items on an expensive Griswold build... it's my most fun character. Not the fastest (although it clears p1 like a breeze, up to about p3-p4) but definitely the most fun. Might make a video on it
I’ve been playing a dream and a hybrid dream-dragon build. Even without one dragon piece it hits harder than my Tesladin, but the trade off of losing teleport from Enigma is a big quality of life trade off for me. Yes charging is helpful but it’s really hard to go back to not having teleport.
Understandable, and it really does depend on where you farm - for chaos, wsk, etc. charge usually works just as quickly, but teleport does win out on remote farming like The Pits/tombs/etc. That said, the most important part is that experiencing the game is satisfying - outside of that, it doesn't matter what strategy is used.
Grief>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Act 3 lightning merc with crescent moon/spirit and if you wanna be expensive throw a griffons on him is also a viable merc choice due to their casting of static field that will help your aura tick damage be able to kill mobs at high player count. (try it, it's really not bad, and a lot cheaper than the alternatives, even without griffons as long as you can get an FCR helm)
Currently in hell difficulty in act 4 in d2R. Def still killing everything without touching. Sunder charms and conviction make a huge diff.
I like to watch build videos, so many good builds and I want to play them all! 👍😀
glad you're enjoying them :)
Just get a hero editor then.
I play with a HoJ phase blade, Dragon armor and Phoenix in a vortex. It absolutely melts and you get the redemption aura and the firestorm procs. Super fun build, but took all of a good 6 months to find/trade for the runes. Excited to finally add a sunder at seasons end to see it be even more effective.
how about phoenix in pb also?
@@MS-kl4hf seems redundant, but not sure
Kinemil's Awl is a unique two handed sword that gives a massive +6 to Holy Fire. I've cleared all of Normal and Nightmare using one. It's super common as early as normal Mephisto and basically free online. I even have an upgraded one socketed with a Shael.
You never want to use a two handed weapon wih a paladin. If you make the cheap honor and spirit in decent bases, you'll do lots more damage, have way better defensive stats and still have +3 to holy fire along with every other skill you use.
@@OriginalChrizum I mean you say that but until you get yo Hell difficulty there's literally no reason to worry about shield stats at all unless you're playing Hardcore, which is nigh impossible to do on D2R due to the insane load times.
Kinemil's Awl will give you more damage than almost any other sword and shield combo while leveling. If you want to swap it out around level 40 when you go to Nightmare I get that. But writing off two handers because Holy Shield exists (and let's be real that skill is the only reason people say that - otherwise there would be advocates for sword and shield Barbarians as well) is just silly. There's no reason really to restrict your character to only using shields on lower difficulties if there are better options in two handers.
The sword has okay damage, okay speed especially with a Shael, and a massive +6 to Holy Fire.
When you get to Hell difficulty, maybe late Nightmare, I agree. Probably a good time to equip a shield. It's probably also a good time to respec from Holy Fire into something else that can actually kill things so, again, you lose nothing.
@@Jvstm Honor in a Dimensional Blade paired with a Spirit shield still attacks faster and does more damage than an upgraded and Shael'ed Kinemil's Awl, and you get Holy Shield and +3 to all other skills on top of that. Kinemi's Awl is a shit weapon and really not worth wasting a Lazurk on.
@@OriginalChrizum It's really not as bad as you're making it out to be, my guy. It's defo not the best - but it's defo nowhere near the worst option either.
"+3 to all other skills as well"
Okay, yeah, you get a couple extra points in Zeal. Wahoo. ::eye roll::
@@Jvstm Kinemi's Awl does just fine in normal and early nightmare for solo self found, but my point is: easy to obtain gear like Honor and Spirit have it beat in every way, including damage, and you'll have no need to waste a valuable Lazurk, too.
Love this game top 10
20 ticks is plenty to average out so even with the variation of damage you'll still get accurate results. this doesn't apply to holy shock though because the low end starts with 1 and rolling a single digit would skew averages too much.
still trying to beat normal stuck in chaos of sanctuary this should help ! thanks !
The best Level 1 weapon by far is the Hellforge Hammer. no level or strength requirements
Y’all sleeping on the amulet of the snakes
@@braedenheverly2884 doesn't sound like a comfortable thing to sleep on. All pointy and stuff.
best man love your vids :D
By the time you get the gear to make this a farming build, what’s left to farm?
I mean its a farming game…
@@Najasoh that could be it. But it should be farming for your alts title
Farm for more godly gear and expensive jewels and charms. You say that like this is the only build and these are the only items in the game.
@@Huyle18if you have found two Sur and a Vex runes you already have all,other builds done
@@MrNone-d5s what about jah and bers?
I just can't get my head around spending multiple high runes to kill cows in 10 ticks while I can slap spirit sword and spirit shield on a blizz sorc and clear it faster, I wish holy fire stacking actually did more damage when running all runewords that provide the aura..
well I can slap a titans on a naked jav zon and do the same, doesn't mean others wanna do that.
I love the depth of this guide. Wish for my style of learning there were an available cheat sheet to follow along while playing but that's just me.
First character build I can't even whine about it's viability on console. Now just have to dream for solo HRs to drop this century.
For Mfing i give my merc the flickering flame helmet and a reapers and put on a isted shako + change the boots for WT + Gheeds + SC and you can get 250+ Mf qutie easy, and cheaply.
While i cant argue that the Dragondin aura hits harder than the Tesladin, I prefer the Tesladin. While fighting non-immunes the conviction aura carries this build, however once fire immunes are taken into account (and the 1/5th rule) you are effectively damaging fire immunes at +50% rez; because of slot limitations the best you can get is -45% fire rez, 15% helm and 30% on conviction. additionally fire immune monsters tend to be the most tanky and take the longest to die, so the overall represent the biggest slow-down on kill speed. Outside of cows the Tesladin is as fast or faster than the Dragondin.
Lastly eating up the weapon and armor slot removes versatility from the build: being able to swap from CM for the -30 rez to a Grief for boss killing and having Enigma for the +str, +Mf and mobility in non-static maps wins every time for me.
-65% ;) (HoJ) - but yea, the equipment slot restrictions on it can be an annoyance, though oddly, with sundered, it feels so much smoother than the Tesladin for me these days - that said, they both fall in that "I feel like playing melee for fun" category for me, rather than the farming category :)
@@Alzorath whoops, missed HOJ. nice catch. My favorite part of both builds is running a >20 conviction neuters uber mephisto.
Though the gameplay is pretty poor, the build progression for a Smiter is one of the best in the game. The only build path that rivals it is the Zon and Barb path but both have major balance issues.
speaking of strength giving x2 dragon gives tons almost as much as enigma
wheres the videos about the hybrid? thats what I roll with and I wonder if lvl30 holy shock + lvl 30 holy fire is better than lvl 45 holy fire.
not better but more versatile imo, all boils down to what you like and what's more fun for you.
Merc gear?
An man I misclicked lol I thought you meant the sexy version of dragon with the assassin 😂
I mean, I like the dragon tail assassin too ;) (imo - a missed opportunity to have the dragon runewords do something special for her, instead of just giving holy fire lol)
@@Alzorath bro! I was messing around with all my buds and said since have a wolf, bear and a vampire, why can’t the assassin turn into a dragon 🐉 similar to Diablo but cooler 😉
I have been playing a FoH Dragondin hybrid. +3 FoH Scepter HoJ, 2x Dragon, Mara, Sojs, Arach. It was really great and the FoH helped with fire immune Monsters like baal wave 5. Sunder is fine, but still takes a while for some mobs.
I'm actually selling my Circlet I used for this. +2 Pala, +2 os, +20 str, +20 ar, +18 mf, socketed with 2x 5-5 fire Rbf.
"BotD" = ?
"FotH" = ?
I know 98% of everyone calls it "FoH" for the past 20 years, but does that really make sense?
@@RareFXChrisC I understand your point
what helm on this shako or flickering flame or coa
@@dvdgamingthings289 I like ff, because of the max fire res
I like dragon + hand of justice sorceress more. 20k fire dmg (without enchant I guess), available teleport, available energy shield.
In french ragondin = nutria, i love this build name
I definitely Wana try this for end game over the usual hammerdin but single player it’s most almost never gonna happen. Gonna take years to farm those runes. And online it mostly p1 since i got no one to play with aside randoms and will need the trades for the runes.
After the original 2.4 patch the holy fire paladin was nerfed shortly after. Has anything changed for the build since then (other than sunder charms)?
The dragondin 3 piece far out beats the Tesladin all the way up to players 3 There is just no comparison in 2.5 specially in cow runs. The tesladin takes way more ticks to kill then lvl 44 dragondin Iv done many cow runs and the timer does not lie. Also the dragondin can do Ubers as well just need to put a couple points into other things…
If you put dragon on a merc from act 3 ... do you know if you get more dmg ? Or two hand of justin on a fenzy barb act 5 . Maybe the game put a limite.
@@Skronoss Putting any of the dragon set on a merc is kind of a waste. The merc does not do very well as the dragon set gets its power from the 2 synergies of the pally tree. Iv tried almost very merc and even made a barb and tried with dual HOJ's and dragon armor with fire helm and still nothing great.
u should try vengeance with boss. It work better in my opinion
running the same build but my act5 merc has plauge crescent moon dream and chains of honor
What about using an act 3 fire merc with the same lvl 44 holy fire + flickering flame?
Wont work so well, cause the synergies from your pala does not add to the holy fire aura of your merc, so you will end up with like only 450 fire aura damage on your merc.
You can also make an Act V Barb merc with high stacking holy fire auras, if you equip him with dual HoJ and Dragon Armor, but the holy fire tick damage seems very weak, even on players 1 Hell on non-fire immune monsters. Is there a significant difference in Holy Fire tick damage between it being on the merc versus it being on the main player character? And if so, what is the reason for that? Is it because of lack of conviction aura, or the fact that player character can further boost holy fire by putting points in other skills that add synergies?
I made such an Act V holy fire merc to pair with my hydra/fireball sorc, but it just seems the merc holy fire damage is far outstripped by maxed hydra damage. It seems like Act 2 merc wielding Infinity would increase killing speed more than a Hoj/Hoj/Dragon Act V merc.
It's because your character salvation and resist fire skills adds synergy damage to the holy fire aura damage. You can use dragon and HoJ on a sorc too and use fire mastery to bump up the dame from the holy fire auras. but you would need to make the dagon in a non paladin shield and missout on the 45+ allressist.
pretty much what magesael said - mercenaries, and frankly any class other than paladin and sorceress, get minimal benefits from dream or dragon builds (there are some builds that used to use dream on other classes, but they were already very niche to begin with, and with mechanical changes, dream quickly fell to 3rd or 4th pick in a lot of them)
@Alzorath Interesting. I'll probably swap the merc back to Act II holy freeze with infinity then. Although now that I already have HoJ, Dragon Armor, and Flickering Flame, it won't take too much other gear to make a Holy Fire Paladin build when I next get the itch to make a melee character.
Strong not recommend trying to fingangle MF into this build.
Use this to farm runes and charms, bring Dual Dream + Enigma for MF as is has more flexibility for the other gear choices, and both dream and enigma come with MF built in.
One thing I would wonder is how would this work with charge for 1 hit love taps?
I use charge for mobility, there are a lot of things it one shots while moving through hell difficulty - but it's generally only the squishier enemies, since conviction doesn't land before you do.
@@Alzorath good point takes a while to set
Ok i am not new to Diablo, but it's been like 20+ years, and after playing diablo 4 beta, i got the itch again. So, question how you are running more than one aura and what's that glowing shield. I ask because i dont know. I am running a lvl 45 holy fire right now, and i can only use one aura
most of the auras are from equipment in this build - the paladin himself can only run one, but any auras from equipment will function on top of that one as if provided by another paladin.
@@Alzorath ah understood ty
Holy fire Paladin works fine :D just pop on a sunder charm or two and use a bow! Ranger danger!!
Yea, the Hfire Rangerdin is a ton of fun (sorc feels smoother imo, but they're both enjoyable)
@@Alzorath dude I need to play the sorc version haven’t set time aside
@@Alzorath do you have a guide for the sorc version?!
for the bow? yup - ruclips.net/video/UWyHGbhQ1Dk/видео.html :) - the Bowchantress
@@Alzorath see all good men don’t wear funny hats and a red suit! You da man thank you bout to watch!
I also heard the radial damage is bugged and does more than we see. Especially when you use the items holy fire plus your own native holy fire!
Not really 'bugged' - it's behaving as intended, sort of - I still consider the stacking radial a 'half bug' (in that it should stack ticks from separate sources, but I still feel like each piece of gear stacking a separate aura tick to be a big) - but in terms of doing more damage than listed, that's because the distance scaling they introduced in 2.4 - it actually does more than listed when the enemy is close.
@@Alzorath take a look at MacroBioBoi recent video because it made me feel like there is still a inconsistency from the way D2 did it vs D2R even before and after patches
Haven't had time to really watch anyone's videos recently - but is it basically the same thing as: ruclips.net/video/_3iuGlt61Vw/видео.html ? (in LoD - the self-cast one would be cancelled, in D2R though, after doing more testing, it does seem the self-cast one ticks now too)
@@Alzorath ❤️ bout to check this out
You dont need zeal just charge for other skill tree
I thought the devs changed the auras to do more damage the closer you are to the enemy. Or is that not the case anymore? This could explain the difference in damage output.
Also why does vengeance never get looked at, it's always zeal?
They do indeed do more damage when closer, BUT - if that was what was causing the difference, you'd see the same behaviour from both tests, not consistently faster for one over the other across hours of tests. (that, and it included solo-cow tests, not just herding tests)
If anyone has info on this I'd appreciate it. I've been rocking a ranger paladen with a kuko shakaku and it's been a blast. If I invest in a dragon bp, it appears that it wouldn't stack with the on character skill points with the aoe splash damage. If this is true, perhaps it would be better to max synergies and add in lightning instead and letting the dragon lvl 14 holy fire (with synergies) do its work. Ala dual elemental damage. Thoughts?
why do you use zeal instead of vengeance?
faster attack, way more DPS - Vengeance only works off of Weapon Damage and +min/+max damage
P A L D I N
better than Foedin
so…. spec into cconviction and ignore native holy fire?
when you get your final gear, yes - while self-cast holy fire is great in normal and 'passable' in nightmare, it just doesn't hold up in hell difficulty.
ive never understood how people on single player have tons and tons of end game equipment. I think the best rune ive found on single player is a pul. I mean, does their whole life just revolve around playing diablo ? How do they get all this stuff ?
I have character saves on a harddrive dating back to pre-LoD... and generally "holy grailing" only takes a few months of casual play, if you do it efficiently (though that is admittedly boring).
You also have to realize how much we find when just spending the 3-4 hours capturing b-roll for the videos, much less build testing on the different stages (though there's a few creators that just do hero edit, record one run in hell, and call it a video - to each their own)
@@Alzorath what do you mean by "holy grailing" ? Like end game characters ?
@@scottmichael7178 Holy Grails are a form of challenge run where you collect all of a given item type - the most common one being all uniques (and usually set items as well) - in more recent history some people have also included runewords in the term.
There's other more difficult specific holy grails (such as oskill grails, ethereal grails, etc.) - but they are less common by a huge margin.
@@Alzorath ethereal grail lol I'll finish it before I'm 90....maybe
how about the merc?
I never played any of the elemental Pallys . I did do a dual dream sorceress with a passion phase blade . Does that build still work or did they patch it ?
Dream sorc is faster than Dream pally iirc. Better FCR frames and not needing enigma for teleport frees up the build a lot, especially now we have sunders. Then you really only need light mastery, so you can run a full 105% Nova/ES build on top of the dual dream. if you want to stick to swinging on a passion you can roll a TS/Enchant build over nova, but with the sunder changes the -rez on Crescent Moon is really strong and ITD means your not going to need as much AR elsewhere.
It still works - the one that got nerfed was the bear sorceress sadly - her attack speed is atrocious now in bear form.
yea, both the Dream Sorc and the Dragon Sorc have some really fun tricks up their sleeves that make them fairly potent. (the infinity only conviction and lack of synergies do make an impact, but she really does ramp up enough +% damage to make it better, barring some very niche paladin setups with facets)
@@Alzorath I'd like to see your take on a dream/dragon sorc. There is information out there but all of it is from pre-2.5. Dragon sorc seems interesting from being able to really go all in on Enchant, though with HOJ and not Passion the melee utility may not be there.
I haven't popped the dragons over to the sorceress very much since 2.5 (with most my focus being on the bowchantress setup for it, not the dragonsorc setup) - but if it plays close to how it used to - it's more akin to the Crescent Moon Teslasorc (attack speed isn't amazing, but rather "good enough" - and it doesn't need to be faster outside of swarms, since it one shots so many things)
Is the sunder charm a game changer for both holy shock and holy fire, even if running lvl 25 conviction? I've used both high end dream paladin gear and high end dragon paladin gear and I feel more scared for my life in dragon gear in p8 lvl96 tzone in HC. I don't use sunder for either. Would that make a difference?
sunders do make a fairly significant difference (dropping resists from 100-150, down to 95 before conviction is pretty hefty) - though it's not going to make either of the builds less fragile.
Expensive build
What’s that trail of fire you send out when you attack
that's firestorm from the hellfire torch :)
With Lvling up skills for aura, will they stack damage with the gear as well?
He tested it there, the self-cast aura does proc with the aura from the gear (which didn't used to work), but it doesn't have the affect of adding the levels together, so conviction is still the better self-cast aura in the end game.
Level up skills for the self-cast holy fire is definitely resist fire>zeal>holy shield(10 points or so)>salvation. Of course with the absolutely required under every circumstance 1 single point into redemption. Standards people.
I've been hearing flickering flame actually lowers your damage on a full dragon build.. any truth to that?
Nope, the bug they're patching is the override bug for your character's max resists.
3 helms that work well here flickering flame, shako with facet, and coa x2 facet
i can clear most areas in hell with ease without a dragon, using phoenix and a flickering flame with a fire sunder charm i am pure holyfire and zeal and doing everything with no problems
I mean, I've beaten the game using sacrifice - it's possible to beat the game with a lot of setups (sacrifice is actually pretty easy to do it with now too vs the old version) - while it is possible to do with lesser setups, some are more effective than others.
Will this build work on singel player ore is it just Ladder???
b-reel footage is captured in single player (with single player's higher life totals as well)
PALDIN?
yup.
eeeeeeeeee wrong, you dont want to put any points into fire aura, just its synergies. dual dragon armor/shield, hand of justice wep, yes flickering flame for the helm, then of course laying of hands, arach belt, and get your self a +2 seraphs hym with +2 defense auras and you can kill hell cows on two pulses single player... I dont have the sindering fire charm yet, cant wait for that. even with this set up you can still do caos pretty well with your green aura on pally for enemy res all lowered. that build is OP. IF you find your killing slowly in caos you can switch out your shield for a phoenix for faster clears, if you want to get a bit more juice also 2 SOJs, seems ++ fire skills do not work that great compared to ++ skils....do this and your aura will kill everything in 1-2 ticks
You can "eeeeeeeeee wrong" all you want, but a few key points:
1. You put points into the fire aura for solo self found - since you don't have dragon for that setup, this is covered in the video.
2. +skills don't effect synergies - so that seraph's hymn and arachnid's (and the SoJs) in your recommendation are worthless.
3. +skills don't effect "on equip" or CtC effects either.
4. Swapping to Phoenix would drop your Holy Fire aura by 14 levels (from 44 to 30), which is not worth the swap (with the right weapon, phoenix could make up the loss in damage through improving the physical damage). You're better off staying on dual-dragon if you have a sundered.
No. The most efficient is still HoJ + double dragon. Level 44 fire aura vs lvl 30 fire aura difference is huge.
Lack of teleport really makes farming very inefficient in most locations. Certain locations work okay even without it, but the lack of it is such a disastrous lack of QoL that it is a huge problem in terms of efficiency.
#Trogdor!!!!
I have been playing diablo 2 since 2004. I have no idea what the fuck this video was even about.
I tried Tesladin this ladder, traded for everything and it sucked. I can't imagine Dragondin is much better. The problem is sunder charms don't do enough for you unless you're a blizzard sorc with cold mastery. That and the long pauses between ticks really limits you to certain content, because spending more than 1-2 ticks to clear feels absolutely miserable.
Sunder charms do a lot. You just didn’t pay attention to the math maybe? If something had 1000000% resistance to fire the sunder charm brought it down to 95% that’s a wide range of reduction.
Facets or items which negate the resistance you need become your BIS
I have footage of just randomly running around the game for both over on the Game Sampler channel ( www.youtube.com/@GameSampler - I use it to backup b-roll and distribute it to people ) - trying to get in the habit of posting some of the b-roll gathering over there so people can watch how it performs in assorted areas if they want. They're not going to perform on par with proper targeted farming builds, since they're designed to be more gimmicky and fun, rather than productive.
lol, well, wouldn't say 1000000% resistance gets sundered, but most things do (there's sunder immune enemies in the game, usually the ones that have naturally 1000+% resist though)
@@kristopherleslie8343 lol I feel the 1000000% resistance thing leveling a holy fire pally in nm chaos
@@dvdgamingthings289 yea people tend to keep adapting game play. So it’s semi old but got buried over time. The more flexible meta start is to start with holy fire to complete normal then immediately include holy bolt or fist of heaven. Preferably fist of heaven. That helps clear all the deficiencies of holy fire .
First
Don't play this build, it is so OP that made game boring for me.
lol, for stuff like p1 cows (heck, p1 in most places), it does tend to pop things like crazy for sure, outside of fire resistant or tanky enemies it could generally just go nearly pacifist.
damn that game looks bad compared to diablo 2
Huh?
Good video I dont see alot of guides for this build. I got so sick of playing like the standard builds and and was looking for one centered around holy fire. So question, would smite be more powerful with holy fire? I know you mentioned ubers, and I also notice you aren’t using fanaticism or vigor with zeal. I’m assuming the gear compensates for this
Runes ain't a problem. I got 214k FG on jsp, lol.
Hook me up with a little dragon shield or armour for Christmas 🎉
switch to dracs