Nice review but to say the DC5 isn't about the chassis as much isn't fair. I've owned both DC5R and DC2R. I do agree the steering is a bit numb in the 5 compared to the 2 and the other let down for me is the cable shifter which isn't as nice to use as the rod style on B series. Other than that the DC5 basically does everything the DC2 does but better. Not a lot better but definitely an all round upgrade. As good as the B18C is, the K20A is a whole different level. The gearbox going to the 6 speed which gives lower cruising revs yet still aggressive gearing for acceleration, much closer gears than most other K series cars. Wider tyres allows more grip, for me it's more noticeable from a dig as the extra weight in the 5 tends to even out overall handling to similar levels. To conclude for most people the DC5R is probably the better choice with nicer interior, more modern looks, comfortable etc. but the DC2 is very special and will often feel faster stock for stock and feels a lot lighter and more nimble but is very raw.
Part of the problem with the DC5 besides the front suspension is it's weight is higher up due to the reinforced a pillars (you don't want to roll a DC2 omg), you can constantly feel that higher center of gravity as you drive. Also, I find myself craning my neck to see around corners properly in DC5's, whereas the DC2 gives you a great view, a massive advantage when driving on the road methinks.
As a DC5 owner u definitely hit the nail on the head with both generations advantages and disadvantages. The DC2 is a far superior chassis being double wishbone and seam welded. The DC5’s front Macpherson strut suspension makes it a nightmare to dial in as Saigo said. Now where the DC5 excels is in its k20 engine! The DC2 and its seam welded chassis and factory Lsd is the more “track focused of the two”. Another great review keep it up!!!
Yes i agree with you at 100% but i just need to add that, even that the k20 is far superior enegine, the power delivery is far more liniar compared to the B series, The Vtec kick on B series is more violet and need more skill to control because if you have the LSD and The VTEC kick at the same time trust me you need experiance to handle that in the corner !
As a former '94 GS-R owner I'll take DC2 and it looks better, the DC5 looks bloated. But you're correct about the a/c being weak sauce, park it in the Texas sun and it'd take forever to cool the car down.
Getting my motor rebuilt(b18c1) with pr3 pistons and upgraded exhaust valve springs.. and cam gears and lightened flywheel.... cannot wait get it back like Thursday
I go camping with my DC2 Type R, even with all the brace bars it's amazing what you can pack in for two people, especially with the spare tire removed. The suspension even feels kind of cool with it compressed evenly.
A lot of the DC5's troubles with lowering are owed to Honda's curious decision to mount the steering gearbox high on the strut. The rear suspension is even worse than the front though. The poor design focuses on saving space instead of performance, the rear wheels toe in and out under compression and decompression. People who time attack DC5's often run absurd (20k+) rear spring rates to prevent compression.
Doctor Ferdinand I lost steering response a bit when I lowered mine. Mostly due to what you mentioned. Now the tie rods are angled big time. I ran inverted tie rod ends for a bit and that helped out big time until one seized up so wmi went back to stock. I will be getting the rack riser to make the inner tie rods straighter to get that steering response back. It's a good car. I like how it handled stock. Nothing compared to my evo but it is fun to drive around.
DC5s are undoubtedly a fun car, I still miss the raw feeling of mine. All of its chassis flaws kind of added character. The bouncy suspension, horrible bump steer problems, unpredictable oversteer tendencies because of the rear suspension, it made the car exciting and alive. That said, from an objective standpoint of ride quality and handling the DC5 / 7th gen civic era is probably Honda's lowest point. Good luck getting yours sorted, they're great cars.
Zygrene... If you ever come to NJ.. you are welcome to drive my Dc2 ITR also... its the USDM version no JDM front. Mine is the same exact color too. And I have an AP2 S2k... lol so you will be just at home
Yeah as a DC5 owner also I completely agree. I never drove a DC2 but I feel like the DC5 was created with the K series engine as it's basis. I've driven a lot of other cars with the chassis as it's main focus and i can clearly say that the dc5 chassis is certainly good for a FF car, but feels like it was created as an after thought when it's coupled with such an amazing engine. Don't get me wrong, I love my DC5 and the K20 engine, but it certainly doesn't win any awards in terms of the feel of the chassis.
I've never been a fan of the DC5. It got fat and lazy, but this Type R conversion actually seems pretty cool for a FWD. Fujitsubo exhaust sounds bad ass too.
I have those identical proxes R1Rs 225/45/15 on my 4th gen prelude. It’s a great tire,I did decent at the drag strip and great on the road course with them.
Great video Fenton... if you ever come out to the east coast I would love for you to drive my Hondas. Plan to have a couple NSXs, a BB6, and maybe and RSX -S. Plus and Ody too :) All tuned of course
By the way, the chassis on the Type S is completely different than the Type R, so doing a Type R conversion on the Type S, won't actually make it anything like the Original Type R guys .
Actually the chassis is very similar, like identical. The dc5 Type R just has some bolt on stabilization, where the dc2 actually has extra seam welding compared to a non-type r
DC2 or EK or EG with K20 is good, but there is still a place for a DC5 especially as a daily driver. With an upgraded rear sway bar, and a 2:1 ratio for the rear spring rate to the front (which gives a 10-15% higher natural frequency in the rear, taking into account motion ratio and corner weight, which is what you want in a FWD), you can apparently get rid of most of the understeer. :)
Would had been nice to have driven the FA5 civic Si too, because it is a mix of both the dc2 and dc5 in my opinion. Of course the only down side of FA5 Si is electric power steering and the fact that it feels like a computer and not mechanical like the dc2, but the handling is great and has a K20.
Also, the FD2R is effectively a Civic Si with hydraulic steering, shorter gearing, a better engine, firmer suspension and Brembo brakes -- the ultimate Civic Type R?
This video came out just as I was researching the DC5 Type-S! About to pull the trigger on one. Great comparison. The biggest drawback for the DC5 to me is the front strut type suspension as you both mentioned in the video. Do you think a DC5 is still a good buy in the used market given other options at the price point?
Get the facelift 05-06 and get one unmodified or lightly modified. Don't buy from a kid and drive the car when it is completely cold when you test drive. Shift into third quickly and see if it lets you in because they get a 3rd gear lock-out.
banzaiboiz thank you sir. The one I'm looking at is completely stock and perf condition in and out, I know the owner. Its an 02 model with almost 200k miles. Less than $5k though.
I mentioned in a different comment here that the rear suspension of the RSX is actually a bigger problem than the front. The compact design allows significant toe variation under compression and decompression. The RSX is great if you want a street car with a lot of character and an amazing engine, but its a bit of a mess if you're looking to make it into any sort of track car. For the same price the Celica GTS is a far superior chassis that would serve you better if you want to do track driving.
Definitely late to the party but the DC2 had upgraded tires and suspension (front end also) and while the DC 5 had a lot of type R parts it didn’t have two main things. TIRES and the 300lbs weight difference that the type R has over the RSX type S. I think a real DC5 type R would’ve killed both of those in this comparison
How would you factor in the Prelude Type SH you drove a while ago? It’s heavier like the RSX but has the double wishbone suspension like the Integra, and a 2.2L engine, making me question how it would compare.
I don't know too much about EP3s specifically, but given how similar it is to the RSX I would imagine it would be the same. Its worth looking into though, don't take my word for it.
I don't feel the chassis is better in the DC2, the DC5 is much stiffer. It's the tires in DC5 that's ruining it for you. The Dc2 is lighter on its feet, but the DC5 is just stiffer. tires tires tires
I've driven both and the dc2R is a raw drivers car.. Dc5R is more mature.. And I didn't like the steering.. And he proved it.. Nice job... But you need to redline a type r everytime.. I say you were shifting at 7500rpm still a 1000rpm to go!! VTEC YO!!! 😁 Jus kidding 😁
Sube Tube tell that to the focus rs and golf R which are both slower than the civic type r car. Let’s not forget that the ek9 and dc2 were both fastest in class in Japan car FF,AWD and FR competitors.
preludeF20Bking boy, your bullshit carries it's scent all the way from your house to mine. The civic type r is not faster the focus rs. And "fastest in class" can't count for much, people can just say it's in its own class
![[ENG CC] Integra Type R DC2 vs. DC5 vs. Civic EK9 battle Ebisu 2001](/img/1.gif)
Great review, been waiting for this for a long time.
Mr. DC2R himself! Now I see why you take such good care of yours 👌
Yes...
I love you miroshi
Miroshi!
You know the owner is in love with his car when he can't stop giggling when the car is being driven
krono That's me everyday I drive my swap
Nice review but to say the DC5 isn't about the chassis as much isn't fair. I've owned both DC5R and DC2R. I do agree the steering is a bit numb in the 5 compared to the 2 and the other let down for me is the cable shifter which isn't as nice to use as the rod style on B series. Other than that the DC5 basically does everything the DC2 does but better. Not a lot better but definitely an all round upgrade. As good as the B18C is, the K20A is a whole different level. The gearbox going to the 6 speed which gives lower cruising revs yet still aggressive gearing for acceleration, much closer gears than most other K series cars. Wider tyres allows more grip, for me it's more noticeable from a dig as the extra weight in the 5 tends to even out overall handling to similar levels. To conclude for most people the DC5R is probably the better choice with nicer interior, more modern looks, comfortable etc. but the DC2 is very special and will often feel faster stock for stock and feels a lot lighter and more nimble but is very raw.
@Sideways G Thanks for this!
Part of the problem with the DC5 besides the front suspension is it's weight is higher up due to the reinforced a pillars (you don't want to roll a DC2 omg), you can constantly feel that higher center of gravity as you drive. Also, I find myself craning my neck to see around corners properly in DC5's, whereas the DC2 gives you a great view, a massive advantage when driving on the road methinks.
Tyres played a huge difference in this test...including affecting the chassis and steering feel in the dc5 imo.
As a DC5 owner u definitely hit the nail on the head with both generations advantages and disadvantages. The DC2 is a far superior chassis being double wishbone and seam welded. The DC5’s front Macpherson strut suspension makes it a nightmare to dial in as Saigo said. Now where the DC5 excels is in its k20 engine! The DC2 and its seam welded chassis and factory Lsd is the more “track focused of the two”. Another great review keep it up!!!
Yes i agree with you at 100% but i just need to add that, even that the k20 is far superior enegine, the power delivery is far more liniar compared to the B series, The Vtec kick on B series is more violet and need more skill to control because if you have the LSD and The VTEC kick at the same time trust me you need experiance to handle that in the corner !
Too bad this is an RSX and not a DC5R. The DC5R would have had an LSD and many, many more upgrades than this RSX.
It is a DC5S but has the M Factory LSD and Type R final drive
As a former '94 GS-R owner I'll take DC2 and it looks better, the DC5 looks bloated. But you're correct about the a/c being weak sauce, park it in the Texas sun and it'd take forever to cool the car down.
Getting my motor rebuilt(b18c1) with pr3 pistons and upgraded exhaust valve springs.. and cam gears and lightened flywheel.... cannot wait get it back like Thursday
I go camping with my DC2 Type R, even with all the brace bars it's amazing what you can pack in for two people, especially with the spare tire removed. The suspension even feels kind of cool with it compressed evenly.
i cringed when you revved the first type r cold wtf?
YEAH WTF IS THAT AB
A lot of the DC5's troubles with lowering are owed to Honda's curious decision to mount the steering gearbox high on the strut. The rear suspension is even worse than the front though. The poor design focuses on saving space instead of performance, the rear wheels toe in and out under compression and decompression. People who time attack DC5's often run absurd (20k+) rear spring rates to prevent compression.
Doctor Ferdinand I lost steering response a bit when I lowered mine. Mostly due to what you mentioned. Now the tie rods are angled big time. I ran inverted tie rod ends for a bit and that helped out big time until one seized up so wmi went back to stock. I will be getting the rack riser to make the inner tie rods straighter to get that steering response back. It's a good car. I like how it handled stock. Nothing compared to my evo but it is fun to drive around.
DC5s are undoubtedly a fun car, I still miss the raw feeling of mine. All of its chassis flaws kind of added character. The bouncy suspension, horrible bump steer problems, unpredictable oversteer tendencies because of the rear suspension, it made the car exciting and alive. That said, from an objective standpoint of ride quality and handling the DC5 / 7th gen civic era is probably Honda's lowest point. Good luck getting yours sorted, they're great cars.
Zygrene... If you ever come to NJ.. you are welcome to drive my Dc2 ITR also... its the USDM version no JDM front. Mine is the same exact color too. And I have an AP2 S2k... lol so you will be just at home
I own a black Honda. Jdm dc5 type r.... Did some mods. On the engine now. Best CAR i ever had 😎😎😎
Brilliant comparison. Old one but brilliant.
Yeah as a DC5 owner also I completely agree. I never drove a DC2 but I feel like the DC5 was created with the K series engine as it's basis. I've driven a lot of other cars with the chassis as it's main focus and i can clearly say that the dc5 chassis is certainly good for a FF car, but feels like it was created as an after thought when it's coupled with such an amazing engine. Don't get me wrong, I love my DC5 and the K20 engine, but it certainly doesn't win any awards in terms of the feel of the chassis.
I've never been a fan of the DC5. It got fat and lazy, but this Type R conversion actually seems pretty cool for a FWD. Fujitsubo exhaust sounds bad ass too.
I have those identical proxes R1Rs 225/45/15 on my 4th gen prelude. It’s a great tire,I did decent at the drag strip and great on the road course with them.
Great video Fenton... if you ever come out to the east coast I would love for you to drive my Hondas. Plan to have a couple NSXs, a BB6, and maybe and RSX -S. Plus and Ody too :) All tuned of course
By the way, the chassis on the Type S is completely different than the Type R, so doing a Type R conversion on the Type S, won't actually make it anything like the Original Type R guys .
Actually the chassis is very similar, like identical. The dc5 Type R just has some bolt on stabilization, where the dc2 actually has extra seam welding compared to a non-type r
@@jesselee4405 Actually not
Added many spot welds and tower bars etc.
The smoke at 5:05 is concerning, unless it's just running very rich for some reason.
I like the dc2 much better , its so old school and looks great
Im waiting for such this review! Great job! ^_^
So in conclusion... DC2R with K swap.
Allen Sales Makes sense, I have a K in my EM2
Haha obsessed garage. I seen u before
DC2 or EK or EG with K20 is good, but there is still a place for a DC5 especially as a daily driver. With an upgraded rear sway bar, and a 2:1 ratio for the rear spring rate to the front (which gives a 10-15% higher natural frequency in the rear, taking into account motion ratio and corner weight, which is what you want in a FWD), you can apparently get rid of most of the understeer. :)
Both are great cars but track times still have the DC5 for a win. Stock vs Stock. I personally think the DC5 looks better!
Like #280. Also the perfect amount of horse power for this chassis as a daily driver canyon carver!
Surprised that there was no mention about the jdm converted dc2 front end.
T Ly beacuse thats how the front should be..
Awesome review. But that rsx will never be a dc5. Unless the owner ups the chassis rigidity.
Been trying to get my dad to trade me his 1997 Integra Type R for my 2006 WRX STi but he won't have it lol, those cars are too much fun to drive.
Anthony Huynh your dad know his car is better
dc5 with a k24 is what i have and the tq is night n day compared to the a2...cool vid tho
Would had been nice to have driven the FA5 civic Si too, because it is a mix of both the dc2 and dc5 in my opinion.
Of course the only down side of FA5 Si is electric power steering and the fact that it feels like a computer and not mechanical like the dc2, but the handling is great and has a K20.
That's a point Sean, the flaws of the suspension are (mostly) fixed compared to the DC5.
Also, the FD2R is effectively a Civic Si with hydraulic steering, shorter gearing, a better engine, firmer suspension and Brembo brakes -- the ultimate Civic Type R?
I used to own dc2 and dc5 and I love more the way it looks the dc2 😃
Dc5 should get the tyre it deserves.. atleast re003 for the stiffer side walls.. so u wont get the sterring delay
Those are the exact tires (Firestone Indy 500) I recommended to Seigo
Zygrene im hoping for the same review after he changed the tyres.. 👍👍👍 a simple tyre change sometimes make the whole different..
i own a jdm ep3r, but id love to pull the motor out and put all the running gear in a dc2r, dc2r is far better for circuit
I wonder if the DC5 needed a good alignment. Obviously needed better tires.
This video came out just as I was researching the DC5 Type-S! About to pull the trigger on one. Great comparison. The biggest drawback for the DC5 to me is the front strut type suspension as you both mentioned in the video. Do you think a DC5 is still a good buy in the used market given other options at the price point?
Get the facelift 05-06 and get one unmodified or lightly modified. Don't buy from a kid and drive the car when it is completely cold when you test drive. Shift into third quickly and see if it lets you in because they get a 3rd gear lock-out.
banzaiboiz thank you sir. The one I'm looking at is completely stock and perf condition in and out, I know the owner. Its an 02 model with almost 200k miles. Less than $5k though.
PlayerZen14 sounds good, just make sure the trans is still good. They have synchro issues typically that they pretty much fixed with the face lift.
I mentioned in a different comment here that the rear suspension of the RSX is actually a bigger problem than the front. The compact design allows significant toe variation under compression and decompression. The RSX is great if you want a street car with a lot of character and an amazing engine, but its a bit of a mess if you're looking to make it into any sort of track car. For the same price the Celica GTS is a far superior chassis that would serve you better if you want to do track driving.
PlayerZen14 where do you live in CT there's one for 5500 123K 2006 Blue Type S
Thank you, this review was very helpful 💪🏽
Definitely late to the party but the DC2 had upgraded tires and suspension (front end also) and while the DC 5 had a lot of type R parts it didn’t have two main things. TIRES and the 300lbs weight difference that the type R has over the RSX type S. I think a real DC5 type R would’ve killed both of those in this comparison
How would you factor in the Prelude Type SH you drove a while ago? It’s heavier like the RSX but has the double wishbone suspension like the Integra, and a 2.2L engine, making me question how it would compare.
Funny you mention that, because I had a discussion on the Prelude while driving Stephen's DC2R. I'll post that footage in a few days.
That’d be great!
I have a rsx and it's true it has issue if u lower it, the steering becomes a little loose ,
The dc5 Integra wing is atrocious imo, but I love the stock type s wings we got in the states
The K20A truly.was the most important thing to come out of the DC5.
A biger set of cams in the dc5 be good
imagine going to get groceries in a type r... huge flex
That DC2 smoked a lot 😬
Man after all these years I still want to get a DC2 ITR. This video did not help.
I want to buy a dc2 or an ek but I’m worried about theft so porbably an rsx or ep3 for me
If theft is a concern, the RSX and EP3's advantage will evaporate once you tune them. Kpro neutralizes the immobilizer.
Doctor Ferdinand what about hondata for the ep3?
I don't know too much about EP3s specifically, but given how similar it is to the RSX I would imagine it would be the same. Its worth looking into though, don't take my word for it.
Doctor Ferdinand ahhh okay thanks I will have to look into this.
Really Doc Ferdinand? That's interesting.
That's why you kswap the integra and it's just becomes funnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!
That smoke doesn't look to good on the DC2 there guys, ?
What's are your thoughts after S2000 ovnership ?
Meaning S2000 vs DC2R and DC5R? Pretty hard to compare RWD vs FWD!
My question is about the DC2, did it feel as fast as the S2000 and as funny to drive ?
Dc5
hay i wonder if you know that the wheel can go more than 190 degrees ......
Everyone always keeping everything “stock”
The Type R is already pretty heavily tuned from the factory.
homeboy look like brendan fraser
KORTOKtheSTRONG I thought he kinda look like Tom Hanks
Honda used to be so innovative. Pitty the once great Honda has passed away. RIP Honda motor cars.
NSX hybrid is not innovative enough for you? :)
Rear wiper on the dc2???
Leo Chang honda still considered it as a hatch you know 😉
I don't feel the chassis is better in the DC2, the DC5 is much stiffer. It's the tires in DC5 that's ruining it for you. The Dc2 is lighter on its feet, but the DC5 is just stiffer. tires tires tires
My 1988 honda civic wagon awd will destroy both of these cars
That dude is the white guy in every asian clique. Probably speaks mandarin/cantonese/korean plays posoy dos.
LHD oh man.
The EU and USA version weren't as good as the jdm.......i gotta jdm :-)
I've driven both and the dc2R is a raw drivers car.. Dc5R is more mature.. And I didn't like the steering.. And he proved it.. Nice job... But you need to redline a type r everytime.. I say you were shifting at 7500rpm still a 1000rpm to go!! VTEC YO!!! 😁 Jus kidding 😁
You put a dog in a type R oh hell nawwwww smh 🤦🏾♂️
Vtec yooo
Front licence plates and foggy headlights. So you know they don't care about their car....
Fwd is aids, but I'd love my first Fwd car to be a honda
Sube Tube that’s something someone that got their 30-50k car smoked by a FF Honda.
preludeF20Bking the only good thing about fwd is that you can do burnouts with only like 90 horsepower
Sube Tube tell that to the focus rs and golf R which are both slower than the civic type r car. Let’s not forget that the ek9 and dc2 were both fastest in class in Japan car FF,AWD and FR competitors.
preludeF20Bking boy, your bullshit carries it's scent all the way from your house to mine. The civic type r is not faster the focus rs. And "fastest in class" can't count for much, people can just say it's in its own class
Sube Tube faster lap times equals faster car. The only thing the RS is better at is driving in wet conditions and 0-60 times.
I like this & I will post it to my VK page!!☝😌✈️✈️🇯🇵🏆🏁🥇⛽🚦🚥☀️🍀🍃