Not sure, I have a Nolan Ncom system that's supposed to be made by either Sena or Cardo ? It works OK for me, but most of the time it's just for listening to my Tomtom Rider, did use it with the riding lessons which worked great ! Oh while I'm here, is there anyone using a Sena R10 with a two-way VHF/UHF radio ? Any good ?
I'm using Cargo and quite happy with it, however some of my folks consistently keep complaining that establishing connection between Cardos at times is a pain in the arse... Personally I even succeeded to connect Cargo with Chinese intercom from Ali in Bluetooth mode.
Cardo Packtalk Bold in Bell Racestar helmet. Works great, but when i listen to the radio i dont recognize some songs that ive been hearing for 20+ years (metallica even). The equalizer settings are set up strictly for the spoken voice and no customization beyond 3 presets. Also the volume settings r fairly spaced. Kinda wish there was a halfway between. 1 is too quiet the other is louder than i want it to be. Even with my leo vince zx14r
I had a sena 20s and it only lasted 2 years.The audio stopped working and they do not repair them so I bought a Cardo Packtalk Bold. It is much better although the voice commands don't work well above 40kmh and the radio can never keep tuned into any station! Neither are worth the money and don't do as advertised.
Previously had Sena and was never happy with it. Bought a PackTalk Bold this spring and have nothing but good things to say about it. Recently rode down to Biloxi, Ms 4 hours of which was in rain, lots of driving rain. No issues with the Packtalk, no water intrusion all was well. After riding home 11.5 hours and listening to an audiobook for half the time, and with my GPS connected full time, I still have 70% battery life left, and the unit has sat for a week since the trip without being charged after. While mostly a solo rider, I have a couple buddies with older non Cardo blue-tooth communicators, and the Cardo connects flawlessly to them (with a shortened range of about 100 yards). It reconnects to them easily when they've go in/out of range. When making phone calls, If I have my windshield in the top position, no one knows I'm on the bike, even with my helmet visor open. The noise cancellation is that good. Sena seems to market more, but in my opinion, Cardo is much better.
As an off-road coach, this video was helping in us making our decision on which unit to purchase for training. I agree completely that it is time to come up with an open-source mesh system that will allow all units from various manufacturers to communicate with the entire group.
It shouldn’t be “amazing” the entire point of Bluetooth is to be an open standard this situation makes Apple look downright generous. I’m actually going to file a complaint with the Bluetooth SIG (developers forum). Won’t do crap but worth a shot
Just to clarify. Bluetooth mesh IS AN OPEN TECHNOLOGY. You have to actually go OUT OF YOUR WAY to make it NOT WORK with other implementations. I’m not sure if it’s Cardo or Sena that’s going out of their way to do so, but from the looks of things it’s Cardo if I understand correctly they released mesh units first, that would mean when Sena followed up they’d be shooting themselves in the foot by not using the implementation Cardo does, only reason they’d not do so is if Cardo went out of their way to hijack the open standard that is Bluetooth mesh and turn it into a proprietary format. This pisses me off and I’m going to be doing some digging and calling some people out after I figure out who’s playing what games here. Hopefully a bigger youtuber will take my research and use it to pressure the manufacturers.
And if the situation is neither of the above and literally both Cardo and Sena managed to “accidentally” take an open standard and make two incompatible implementations of it, then that’s even worse and frankly a 3rd party deserves to step in and swallow the market while. No idea where Cardo or Sena is based but this is the type of situation that leaves American and Western companies as sitting ducks, sitting greedy a$$ ducks, as a Chinese or Taiwanese manufacturer can step in overnight and use a far cheaper already standardized Bluetooth stack to do the same thing even better and steal all the market share and Cardo (assuming they’re the market leader) would have earned exactly that by failing to give a crap about their customers money and trying to milk them dry over “new features” that are literally being developed by a group that gives it out for free basically while Cardo and Sena try to act like they’re some innovative company. Ugh.
Just Purchased the Cardo Palk Talk Bold most of my fellow riders run Sena.... And yes these two units need to be able to talk to each other in Mesh, Sound and water proofing was the biggest factor for me as any ADV rider needs to be able to keep going in the wet, The Cardo does this for me. Voice commands are tricky at first but i have found if you roll the CARDO in "Hey Cardo" and finish of sharply with Volume up e.t.c it works great, The unit don't like the Ozzie slang and you find your self 5km down road reaching for the buttons if you revert back to this language. The sound out of the JBL Speakers is great and even in a MX style helmet with goggles can hear the beats nicely.
Thank you for your video. Great content. Helps make my decision easier.... Buy neither for now. Wait for the next generation of Pack Talk... Hopefully with USB Type C fast charging and Bluetooth 5.0.
@@manuelcuevas7045 Great question. It was my husband’s and he put it in his pocket after a ride & forgot it was there. I threw the clothes in the washer and there you have it🤣🤣🤣
The 50R is inferior to the 50S and the 50S is the unit that is more comparable to the PackTalk. The 30K is a better unit than the 50R... just upgrade it with the HD speakers.
Thanks for your review, interesting. I have a set of 2 x 50S for 2 years, I was happy until my battery started dying in 1 and a half hour ride. Sena said the solution is to buy a new unit and I'm not happy with this solution. Also agree with you on the voice command; I haven't been able to use it in a comfortable way when my friends that use Cardo, they are very comfortable using voice command for every need. I have another comment; when you use Mesh intercom between 50S and some others 50S seems to work very good, but when there is somebody in the group with a Sena Mesh but different model, then electronic static noise started getting in the communication. I had used 20S duo pack for many years, now have used 50S for couple years and feeling disappointed with the Sena.
Owned a 30K, bought a Packtalk Bold. Cardo for the win. Everything about it is better. I just use Bluetooth phone call when riding with my Sena wearing friend. The only solution at this point for that. Cardo just does it better. I agree with you wholeheartedly on them coming up with a common source mesh. That would make the world a better place.
Very good review, totally agree on the open mesh. There should be an open standard so that people can choose the comms system they want and still comminicate with all current units. Regardless of who manufactured it.
I have used a senna for several years and to get around distance anxiety our group uses an app call "discord" which uses your phone and conference call amongst all riders . The only draw back is cell reception and of course an unlimited plan comes in handy also.
Round 1. Both pricey Round 2. Battery life same? But Packtalk has better warning before dead Round 3. range test? Sena wins by hair Round 4. Wind noise? Packtalk bold wins Round 5. Water proof? Packtalk bold Winner: Packtalk Bold wins the fight however both companies should get together and make mesh shareable. I know some guys that have both systems set up on different helmets. I guess it’s like having a PlayStation 4 and Xbox one.
A really great review (again!). My experience has exactly mirrored yours with both manufacturers - Sena continues to offer subpar, buggy products that really negatively impact my ride. Every Sena ride is guaranteed to have 15 minutes of messing around trying to get everyone connected. Not to mention that Sena sound quality at speed is so poor that I can’t hear my group past about 65 mph. Cardo on the other hand can link up a group in about 30 seconds through their app, and then you’re done. Forever. And Cardo’s sound cancellation software allows voice communication up to about 100 mph in the same helmet (well, I mean in theory, what kind of crazy person would ever go 100 mph?). What has bothered me as well of late is the number of major helmet manufacturers who have gotten in bed with Sena or offer some proprietary nonsense built into an otherwise desirable lid. Luckily my Packtalk Bold just glued right on top of the Sena insert on my Neotec 2, but I would have far preferred a more elegant solution. Hey thanks for your awesome content! Your reviews are honest and thorough, truly some of the very best I’ve found on the interwebs. And you’re really funny. You’ve quickly become one of my very favorite motorcycle channels. And if Sena and Cardo, or other potential sponsors, are listening you’ve already impacted several of my motorcycle related buying decisions. Strong work!
I'm from Germany and I could only laugh about the 100mph :P That is a speed I ride like every day on my way to work on the Autobahn :D Communication with cardo still works fine. Unfortunately Sena has a market share from above 80% here in Germany. So many people here doesn't even know about Cardo and think this is a bad and cheap brand...
I upgraded my Sena 20K to the Pack Talk Bold a couple years ago. Mainly for the wind cancellation. Second is the water proof. Even though I had the 20K in some serious rain and never had an issue with it. My Cardo starts to warn me at 25 percent battery life with a beep.
Great video and you made my decision for me, thank you! I love the way you thoroughly tested both back to back and highlighted their pros and cons. I've been riding with a Sena 10c since it for first came out but it's starting to get old and won't hold a charge as long. You hit it right on the head about Sena really just catching up to Cardo and sprinkling a few updates to make it look advanced. A head scratcher for me with Cardo is use a mini USB charging instead of USB C std that allows faster charging times and just plain easier! Wtf Cardo?? Clearly one of your engineers fell asleep. But it's not enough for me to not get the new Cardo Packtalk Black tho so thank you!
I started with the Sena 20S a few years back which was a great little unit. Sena luckily took so long to release the 30S that my friends and I jumped ship after a brief and painful interlude with Interphone to the Cardo PackTalk and then to the Bold and Slim versions. I can honestly say we use them every weekend and on trips to NordKapp, the Bulkans Spain and the French Alps to name but a few and are very happy with the reliability and poverall performance. While we have experienced some technical difficulties with helmet wiring failing, overall I totally agree with what has been said in the video. MESH while frankly perfect for us as we tend to ride close together has a limited range much lower than the publicized 1.6k and I too ride with a modular helmet which the Cardo handles very well although you do need to put the larger foam mic cover on to effectively block out the wind. Voice commands are great although I do think there is still room for improvement as false activations are still a common occurrence and it would be great if some of the voice features could be disabled to suite individual rider preferences. Not sure about open MESH as we like to be in control of who we allow into the group but I see the attraction. Overall CARDO gets a big thumbs up and I will continue to recommend their products. Looking forward to the next update.
I originally purchased Sena and was happy. I knew a few people with them and we could connect and chat. It worked but after the first few days I was not really blown away by it but continued to use it and be content. Later I got a new helmet and decided to get a new comm device rather than transfer it over. I got a Cardo and was immediately impressed everything was just a little better my opinion. I eventually got used to using it and didnt think much of it. That was until I went back to the helmet with the Sena and I was immediately disappointed. The audio quality was very bad while riding comparatively and it just wasn't as easy to use and setup. This prompted me to get a few friends that could afford them to purchase a Cardo as well. The only issue I ever had was I purchased a Packtalk Slim and the charging port broke. Luckily Cardo warrantied it for 2 years and replaced it for free. The port breaking was almost a deal breaker though. Was so angry as I was so careful with it. Luckily Cardo had a new unit in my hands in less that a week. Excellent warranty and customer service and here is me hoping that the issue that caused the failure in the first place has been fixed. (its rather common on the original slim from looking online) One friend purchased a slim with me and had the same issue and my other friends got the Bold and never had this problem. The replacement unit looks a little different on the outside so I am hopeful that the problem with the port has been fixed. Overall I like the Cardo but an worried about it breaking again as the warranty is almost up. I really like the low profile of the slim but cannot recommend it at this time. The Bold seems good but I just don't have the experience with it to say its the best device. If it doesn't have the port issue I can say I would not hesitate to recommend it though.
We are a group of four riders using the Cardo Packtalk Bold units. Bought them 'cause another group of riders recommended them to us. We're absolutly happy, even with open helmets clear voice and talking up to 110km/h then the wind noise overlays the talking voice. Otherwise no issues with understanding. Rangewise, far below the announced the distance. You're fine up to 300-400 meters then it cuts out. The group remains in this distance anyway so no problems so far.
I have the Sena SRL 2 in my Shoei and have had no problems what so ever. It does everything i want it to do, and imho it looks far better than something stuck on the outside of the helmet.
The SHO-1 is a similar low profile design and the packtalk slim is also very similar. I agree that the low profile units are much better looking and honestly produce less wind noise.
I have both the Cardo pack talk, Sena 20s Evo and also the Sena 50s. The unit I wear depends on who I am riding with. If I ride alone I wear the Cardo. The hands free functions of the cardo work much better than anything else. I have not tried the 50s mesh yet as none of my riding buddies have a 50s. The speakers in the Cardo are brilliant and the 50s speakers have been greatly improved. Both company's mesh working together would be amazing.
@J G Yup you're right! Maybe the wind filter is more difficult but to me it just looks like they're spending their budget on paying off motovloggers XD.
J G EOS R5? It’s an super amazing camera. The haters whine about the overheating issue, they forget the device is a Photography Camera with video feature. The main objective is still photos not video. The 8k video is there as bonus not main feature. Sena 50K/R failed because of overall features are inferior than 4 years old Pactalk Bold.
I know this is an old thread but I'm going to add my 2 cents. I agree that the mesh systems between the 2 need to be compatible so that you can connect to whoever you're riding with no matter what unit they have. Unfortunately, my friends all use the Sena. I have both the 50S and the Packtalk Bold. I'm switching out to Packtalk because Sena support is horrendous and they have some known issue that doesn't allow the Sena's to connect to the updating software. I got told some BS by Sena that it was because I was using a browser other than Chrome. Uh, yeah because you have to use Sena software!! The browser doesn't even come into play!! So FU Sena. I'm out.
I have watched this again and again and the only thing that makes sense is your video. It’s such a pity they don’t do an open mesh THEN the choice is so much easier. Thank you for your great review as always
Spot on. I know the Sena 20s is capable of noise suppression because if you transmit silent A2dp it will cancel the wind noise kind of but allows the mic to transmit voice. It's like it's there but nobody tested it to see if it was implemented correctly.
Thats tricky. On one hand you don't want to charge to much for the licensing so other manufacturers will buy it but on the other hand you don't want it to be so cheap that they can massively under sell you and kill your own product.
@@BrandGSX True, it would be tricky. The devil would be in the details. Specifically the documents to keep the licensing reasonable and accountable. Technology Sharing Agreement with a reverse engineering clause, Manufacturing Licensing Agreement, Non Disclosure Agreement, Terms Of Use, Manufacture Developer Kit. And so on. Think in the scope of "big tech". Sell the product and the platform. Sell the device... but also sell the operating system, the CPU & GPU, the RAM and the displays. Define the platform. Set the standard. Dominate manufacturing and retail markets.
Thanks for the comparison video. Through the years Sena has repeatedly demonstrated their inability to manufacture an honest product and I truly despise them for that. Having said that I did take them up on their rebated offer which had me relinquish my 20S and upgrade to the 50S. I figured it was the best way to deal with an aged 20S that had become a dust collecting paperweight. Even though fully functional old technology eventually becomes obsolete so it’s better to recoup salvage dollars while keeping pace with the current tech however flawed its execution may be. I do hope that Cardo will step up to the plate and introduce an updated unit with a proper USB C port and an external speaker port if it doesn’t already have one. That is where I will look to spend my retail dollars going forward.
friends have cardo, sena and other cheap variants, so on group rides we use group call and now whatsapp group call with normal in ear headphones, mic tucked between cheekpad and face, it sounds surprisingly good, no wind noise. The motorcycle communicators feel like old tech with no great usability for the price, the fact that the devices cannot communicate between each other is sad, pay 300euro and have to use our phones for group rides...not optimal but only way we can all speak to each other.
Engineered incompatibility ... Capitalism at its finest/most efficient ... 😏 Good point ... Cardo AND Sena might just make both of themselves redundant, if they keep playing incompatibility games ...
Why not just use bluetooth mode and daisy chain? You don't have to use the mesh network on Cardo or Sena or most other brands to link up a large group. But if you have enough Cardo owners in the group (half) you can have them use bridge mode and each bring one rider into the network with other brand comms, even phones. With that said it must be nice to have unlimited data, great phone coverage and battery life. As soon as we get into the mountains our riding group wouldn't be able to talk and phone batteries die fast then they are in constant use. These standalone comms defiantly have their place but it nice you were able to find a way to ride without them.
Thank you for this post😃👍🏻 A good few moons ago I bought a Schuberth C4 helmet and the com's system that slots into the helmet. The helmet has done more miles going between the Schuberth distributor in the UK and back to myself then back and fourth it's even made it to Schuberth in Germany twice. This is further than I have ridden my bike in the time I have owned the helmet and system. It turns out the system is made by SENA and water ingression wrecks the control unit, even though the unit slots in to a designed space on the underside of the helmet. I managed to figure out the problem myself after my helmets many holidays and it was as simple a fix as applying a little dielectric grease to the control unit where it lights up. Why it lights up in an area that you can't see, on the bottom of your helmet is a mystery to me. I informed Schuberth of the fix, I think they regret the deal they made with Sena. I see you have the BMW helmet, have you tried their system, I don't know who makes it for BMW, probably Sena, I have an inkling Cardo might not work with a German company. I owned an original Cardo system years ago and it lasted 10+ years, I personally think they are far superior.
I am a longtime Sena user, as are most of my riding buddies. My default BT intercome is a Sena 10C Pro, and will probably continue to be. I commmute 75 miles a day in the Los Angles area and I prefer to video record my commutes for liability reasons. That being said, I used an older Sena unit (SMH-10) whenever the weather turned wet, which actually does happen occasionally in LA. This past week, I lost my second Sena unit due to rain. Granted it was over 3 years old, but I just can't see making the commute without music and I haven't found earbuds that are comfortable under my helmet. So this weekend I purchased a Cardo Freecom 4+. Nice features, yada yada, but most importatly, waterproof. Had no problems paring with a Sena user via Universal Intecom mode and have been very pleased so far. Since I will only be using the Cardo when there is a threat of rain, it may be a while before I have a firm opinion of it but, as you have said, waterproofing is such an important feature, it's difficult to understand why Sena continues to ignore it.
Yep I luv the Slim . . . . a nice low profile on my helmet . . . . however; Cardo might have done better by locating the USB charge socket on the battery pack that sits at the back of the helmet thus making it easier to get to.
I've had the 50r for about 6 weeks and I agree that the 50r is an improvement but my decision to select the device was mainly based on my group of friends', all Sena. I've used the 50r, in all weather conditions and its performance is good and the audio quality from the new speakers is very good. However, the noise cancellation on the 50r is very poor and does not work as promoted by Sena, and the voice controls using Hi Siri is inconsistent.
@@sukhoi3747 At the moment I would agree. Unless they make improvements to the noise cancellation and the voice commends I would not recommend the Sena 50r.
I have had the Sena SMH10, I now own the cardo packtalk bold duo and without a doubt... THE SENA IS THE MOST INTUITIVE HEADSET OUT THERE. touch a button to play music, hold that button to share with other units, next track, roll the wheel forward, previous track roll it back, everything pretty much revolves around the main button and wheel which is so easy to use even wearing the thickest gloves. The Cardo may be better at being weatherproof and wind noise reduction, but it has multiple tiny little buttons, they are very confusing (if you can find them with winter gloves on,) I have not managed to get the voice commands to work and there are many to remember. Using the FM radio (I don't ever listen to radio) regardless of whether I scan forward or backwards on the cardo... it is always the same station, never changes. Both are excellent for sound and voice quality but I was using the sena within a minute of attaching it to my helmet (also sena has better helmet attachment), while I struggle to make the cardo do what I want it to do, 3 days after owning it. When I use my sena, it plays the tracks I have set up, the cardo app finds some long forgotten tracks on my phone and I cannot seem to control what it picks. I would not say it is user unfriendly but the controls should be stolen from sena's simplistic super effective SMH 10.
Unless you go swimming with the Sena it works fine in the rain for hours. I live in WA State and it rains a lot when I am riding. Like every time. The noise recognition is a problem for the Sena tho
Had Sena 30K initially and then upgraded to the 50S. However, whenever my husband and I are out riding we have to turn the mics off due to too much wind noise which rather defeats the purpose of having something readily available in case of emergency to point out things on the road. He listens to music I listen to audio books. Much better when I ride only by myself as I don't have to listen to his wind noise. However, I'm about ready to go back to regular CB use.
I bought the cardo packtalk bold for Xmas and love it So easy to connect using an app rather than buttons And the voice controls are great. Put in my earplugs and ride Love the mesh connect once and you dont have to do it again your buddies come around the music dims slightly and you're talking again
A few years ago, most of my friends had Sena so that's what I spent a bunch of money on. Then they all went out and spent their money on the new Cardo pack talk... A compatible mesh would be great. Everyone could buy the one that fits their needs the best. C'mon Cardo! C'mon Sena!
Thank you. Great review. I'm now in the market for a new unit as my Sena 10U gave up a month ago. It won't charge any more. I wish that both companies would work on quick battery replacement like on a Drift Ghost camera. Having to buy a new unit because of poor or no charging is very crap. I did decide to open the unit up to see if I could replace the battery, but found that the unit had water damage too. So far I think it is between Cardo and Interphone.
Thank you for your review we were ready to give up on Cardo we have been having issues with the packtalk slim. Two vacations with no communication he in the US. Cardo stepped up and sent out two new unites so we will see how they work. Just just updated to latest firmware and reinstalled in helmets. I help manage a group of about 350 bikers so it is good to give an update to how both units are working. Thanks again. Thank you for listening to us Cardo!!!
Great review/comparison. The lack of interoperability is disappointing. I have the Packtalk Slim JBL (Shoei X14) as I have a sport bike. It works pretty well, though I am looking forward to an update that provides longer range and fixes some issues.
bernhtp - Nice. Thinking of getting a Slim for my X14 (600RR); still seems like the best of the current options? Either that or wait for a new Cardo unit update. No regrets with your Slim?
@@kierenmoore3236 Be careful of the charging port. Look it up as they do break on the slim. Only problem I ever had. My replacement one Cardo sent me for free looks a little different on the outside so I hope it has been addressed and fixed as it is a common issue.
just got a Cardo Freecom4+ last week and i have already called through half my contacts using the voice commands.... i did not want to speak to any of them and it was very uncomfortable :D But beyond that, if it actually calls the right person, the quality of the sound and the wind noise cancellation is amazing!!
Where I am the Cardo Freecom4+ is not that much cheaper than buying a BOLD or a SLIM . . . . . so why did you buy the Freecom? I can only guess that money was real tight . . . no shame in that scenario.
My upgrade will include universal mesh. Currently Sena & Cardo will not get my money because of current limitations with Mesh technology. I'll live with the 20s until such time.
I think I knew some of the landscape when I saw the Arges plates :) I live not far from there, near Sibiu part of the year. Right between us there is magnificent roads for riding. Im curious tho, judging by that decal on your bike are you from SA or Romania?
Probably an independent standards organization will need to define a universal mesh protocol before there is hope for interoperability. It seems unlikely the two companies will be able to do it on their own due to competitive forces.
@@kierenmoore3236 Maybe. Or maybe not. Just like there is more than one way from point A to B, there are multiple ways to solve given engineering problem, like a mesh. There's way more to that than "we've got the mesh", so their implementations might differ by the details. And the devil lays in the details.
To be honest, we will never be in a group mode and need mesh. Not only would it be distracting but I would go so far as to say its Dangerous. Normal Pairing mode has served us very well for many years and will continue for the foreseeable future.
@@kierenmoore3236 Both companies use pretty standard hardware in their units that can communicate with each other if the software was compatible. As far as I know the mesh network on both actually run on garden variety Bluetooth but its the underlying software that makes them work the way they do. Pretty sure they could get them to work together if they wanted but that would risk one of them losing customers to the other so its probably not something they are willing to risk.
I have been saying the same thing for a long time! All communication head sets should use standard mesh communication instead of not working very well with each other even on Bluetooth mode...
Fully agree, spending that much money, Sena should be water proof. Also Sena seem hell bent on over stating there product and relying on brand name which is reducing yearly. I look forward to the day when pairing has an industry standard and you don’t have to be constrained to a brand name. Hell even Apple & Microsoft are closing that gap.
The Sena 30 Series DID suck, but the newest firmware fixes make it work as well as the 20S, including Open Mesh. All the newest Sena firmware make all the units really good. Just remember you need that original Micro USB cable that came with your 20S/30 to use the PC software. I think a pin is jumpered or a loop is in there because a normal data/charging cable will not work. If I get bored, I might pin it out and see what makes it different. Sena fixed the unsigned drivers issue with the Sena Device Management software v4.1.1 I cannot afford to change to Cardo on all my units, but my non-PackTalk buddies swear Cardo is fantastic. My Sena's are great. And now that I have a +Mesh, I may just buy a PackTalk, but I'd really rather borrow one and see if its really going to give me what I want. If the Cardo PackTalk works with the Sena +Mess, then I could talk to Sena Open Mesh and Cardo PackTalk Mesh and bridge between all the Cardo and Sena models that Mesh and or Bluetooth. And I would have the waterproof unit I want, not that my Sena's have ever failed due to water. But I have never (Knock on wood) submerged one and cannot afford to test that.
Cardo hands down. I've had sena. I wouldn't say garbage but still not even in the same class as Cardo. Just the wind noise cancel alone makes it worth it. And theres so much more
Long time Subscriber - First time commenter !! Been a Sena user since 2012, although still on the 10 series (10U is integrated in my Klim Krios helmet) - I TOTALLY agree with you about a standard mesh system. We have one rider in our group who uses Cardo, and it's 30 mins before we can ride dicking about with universal pairing. Totally considering the Cardo for my next lid - if I ever get to ride again with this bloody pandemic
So surprised that Sena is not waterproof. We use Sena smh 10 which are now so outdated but are waterproof . They work without issues for us although not a mesh unit. This new unit seems like a step backward since the smh10 is so old in a technology based product.
Have packtalk slim, brother of the Bold. Biggest quality issue is the ridiculously prone to damage charging point in the unit. The small USB connector is to flimsy for durability. Had to send one back already after on 3k miles using it. The process was very easy and no quibble.
I currently have a 20S and it annoyed me from day one as I can barely hear music or a phone call at highway speeds. Will give Cardo a try when I buy a new lid later this year. Great test btw, although somewhat inconclusive IMO. Couldn't agree more with open mesh allowing Sena and Cardo to connect with each other.
Very good point about both systems mesh mode being pointlessly exclusive. It serves absolutely no purpose. Unfortunately 2 years down the road it doesn't seem like any of them are keen on doing anything about this.
I know more people that have Sena but the few people that have a Cardo was once on a Sena or started with Cardo. The Sena side would say it's the "known motorcycle brand" and the Cardo side would say that "it works better than Sena". I'm still doing all the research I can before I pick a side. Kinda leaning toward Cardo
I am wanting a bluetooth headset for GPS and for music. Don't need a mic but want GOOD sound. What would you suggest using? Thanks for you advice in advance! Tommy
*Bone conductors are the future of helmet audio.* I adapted aftershokz bone conductors to mount to the exterior shell of the helmet resulting in crystal clear audio. Audio is transmitted directly to the auditory nerve so nothing covers your ears. You can still easily hear a horn or issues with your bike if something isn't right. Someone should patent this, because I'm just an idea man
Apologies if this has been answered. I want a Pactalk but my current riding buddies bought Sena 20s systems which I don’t think have Mesh anyway. Will the Cardo and Sena systems be able to connect with Bluetooth?
If I ever start riding in groups that use comms, I'll pick up a Cardo. There are ways to rig one system to the other and bring groups together (so I've heard). But even if it doesn't work as advertised, I prefer waterproof guarantees. The only reason I haven't been caught in a storm this year is the pandemic. In the last week there have been pop-up storms around the region at my normal commute times. So, traveling from home to office and back, means possibly getting wet once in a while. If it can't take being hosed down by a tropical storm once in a while, it can't be on my bike.
I have both the Edge and the 50s, by far the biggest difference is that I can use the Edge with good ear plugs and at highway speed I can hear it clearly at a bit over middle volume. On the 50s I have to have it at max volume and it's still too quiet for me to say it sounds good with ear plugs at highway speeds (ambient sounds wash it out). Open mesh is a cool idea but in my years of using the 50s I've only actually ran into other open users once (earlier this year on the PA Wilds BDRx). I DO think the community would benefit from a TRULY open mesh architecture... but Sena will never do it (because right now the Cardo is substantially better, they need the captured market).
I completely agree with you selecting cardo over sena. However, I do like a lot that the sena 50 offers 4 Bluetooth channels compare to cardo offering only 2 Bluetooth channels. Let me explain why having more then just 2 channels is very important. These days both units use an app that you have on your phone to allow ease of use and to make and receive calls. This uses 1 Bluetooth channel. Then you have a lot of riders who use these units that rides bikes equipped with with a info system and that also needs to be connected to these devices. This uses another Bluetooth channel. With the sena 50 you still have 2 more Bluetooth channels to use to connect to any other riders that use systems not equipped to connect on the mesh system. With cardo you already used up all your Bluetooth channels and thus can only connect to other riders also using cardo by mesh. Now if cardo could find a way to add 1 or 2 more Bluetooth channels, then I for one would get it. As it is now I do have the cardo bold but rarely use it because I can’t connect to any riders using sena or other device due to the lack of Bluetooth channels available once connected to my phone and bike.
A couple months ago I purchased a Cardo Packtalk Black, because I only had Sena so far. Indeed the quality of the sound is better with the 42''JBL speakers, compared to my integrated Sena systems. However over 90 km/h the difference is voided since you can't hear anymore the fat bass from Cardo, actually over 90 km/h, the GPS and intercom is better audible on Sena. What I really enjoy on Cardo is the noise cancellation. Is better than Sena's, at least according to my wife that can understand me better while I'm using the Cardo together with my Vance & Hines slip-ons :) However I have a different experience about the voice commands. While Sena understands me 100% of the time, on Cardo is impossible to give any command... That is not a problem for me since I am a button pusher anyway, but just saying... Well, there is one thing that makes me not using the Cardo - the Bluetooth mixing. While on Sena works perfectly, on Cardo when I speak with my wife on intercom, the GPS voice gets interrupted, rendering it useless. Same thing happens with music. Their support wasn't helpful so far, the issue persists. Because of that, I am really thinking of replacing it on that helmet with a Sena 50S or 50R.
I have recently traded my sena for a packtalk, and it's better in every way except the voice quality. I have a hard time understanding my pillion because her voice is muffled. Anyone else have this? Any way to fix it? I have tried both microphone types they are the same. It is good at taking the wind out but it sounds muffled, the sena was always quite clear for voice communication.
You are spot on re: “make love not war.” I did find that my local cycle gear store was saying “most everyone in this area uses Sena.” Wouldn’t it be nice if they worked easily together?
I HAVE A SENA IN A SHOEI NEOTEC 2 HELMET, USES BLUETOOTH.WE ALWAYS HAVE TROUBLE CONNECTING TO EACH OTHER. IT WAS MORE OF A PAIN IN THE ASS STAYING CONNECTED AND GETTING BACK CONNECTED AFTER A STOP. THREE OF US JUST BOUGHT THE CARDO BACKTALK BLACK AT AMERICADE THIS WEEKEND .SOUNDS LIKE THEY ARE A BETTER UNIT, BUT WORRIED ABOUT HOW THEY ATTACH TO THE MOUNT THAT CLIPS ONTO THE HELMET. IT SEEMS AS THOUGH IF YOU BUMP THE MOUNTING CLIP FOR THE UNIT THAT IT MAY FALL OFF, I MAY TRY TO ADD A CABLE TIE TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T. CAN'T WAIT TO TRY THEM OUT.
My riding buddy and I bought a duo set of PackTalk Bolds but it only came with one set of manuals - which is pretty lame after having paid more than. $500 for the pair. I have asked for a second set and offered to pay for them but Cardo says they don’t have any additional manuals available - gimme a break.
Love your reviews I have the cardo packtalk bold I keep constantly getting wind noise from my wife’s headset,I’ve tried different microphones even tried tape over mic any ideas thanks John
Thanks for the review. When doing a range test could you elevate the stationary system to 1.5m to 2m to represent it being worn by another rider. With RF height equates to range. You might also get ground plane effect with the antenna being so close to the ground this may impact the range and stability of the signal.
Thank you for your review. After watching this review of yours, I just purchased Cardo PackTalk Slim a few days go. Somehow though, the voice command does not seem to work when I am riding (it works fine when I stopped with "OK Google" though). Also, for the sound quality for the music listening, I think my $30 bluetooth earbuds have much better quality. I will probably have more firm(?) opinion later. Most of my friends seem to have Sena and Uclear, but hopefully the bluetooth connection still does a job...
Excelent video, I was like in doubt on getting the SENA unit or the CARDO... Know I'm going totally for the CARDO. The waterproof and windsupression is a yes yes... You win a subscribe Sr! XD!!! Cya!
The Cardo phone app seems hit and miss... sometimes it shows a green bar but says no device connected. I can play music on my phone and it comes through the headset but to use the app, I need to turn off the phone bluetooth and back on again before the app connects.
Do you know if Cardo Freecom 4+ also has a wind/noise cancellation function as you show at 5:50? And wether it is as good as on newest Cardo Packtalk units?
I've had the Cardo Backtalk Bold and now the Sena 50S. I switched due to Harleys need of a Sena. I have issues with voice recognition on both. Neither recognizes my voice. No issue with "Hey Siri" or "OK Google". It's the algorithm in the units themselves. Neither company could offer a solution.
Best video. Well said and fair. Cardo, please get helmet options going! Why don’t y’all just merge companies so we can get the best of both. This war sucks.
Sena has the largest market share and I doubt they want to risk losing customers because they can go out and buy "Brand X" and still chat with their friends. Cardo is gaining a large customer base and doesn't want to risk the same thing. Unlikely to happen. The bluetooth consortium/SIG would need to do this as they have no skin in the game.
What are your experiences with Sena or Cardo?
Not sure, I have a Nolan Ncom system that's supposed to be made by either Sena or Cardo ? It works OK for me, but most of the time it's just for listening to my Tomtom Rider, did use it with the riding lessons which worked great !
Oh while I'm here, is there anyone using a Sena R10 with a two-way VHF/UHF radio ? Any good ?
I'm using Cargo and quite happy with it, however some of my folks consistently keep complaining that establishing connection between Cardos at times is a pain in the arse...
Personally I even succeeded to connect Cargo with Chinese intercom from Ali in Bluetooth mode.
Cardo crush it versus Sena in my personal experience.
Cardo Packtalk Bold in Bell Racestar helmet. Works great, but when i listen to the radio i dont recognize some songs that ive been hearing for 20+ years (metallica even). The equalizer settings are set up strictly for the spoken voice and no customization beyond 3 presets. Also the volume settings r fairly spaced. Kinda wish there was a halfway between. 1 is too quiet the other is louder than i want it to be. Even with my leo vince zx14r
I had a sena 20s and it only lasted 2 years.The audio stopped working and they do not repair them so I bought a Cardo Packtalk Bold. It is much better although the voice commands don't work well above 40kmh and the radio can never keep tuned into any station! Neither are worth the money and don't do as advertised.
Previously had Sena and was never happy with it. Bought a PackTalk Bold this spring and have nothing but good things to say about it. Recently rode down to Biloxi, Ms 4 hours of which was in rain, lots of driving rain. No issues with the Packtalk, no water intrusion all was well. After riding home 11.5 hours and listening to an audiobook for half the time, and with my GPS connected full time, I still have 70% battery life left, and the unit has sat for a week since the trip without being charged after.
While mostly a solo rider, I have a couple buddies with older non Cardo blue-tooth communicators, and the Cardo connects flawlessly to them (with a shortened range of about 100 yards). It reconnects to them easily when they've go in/out of range. When making phone calls, If I have my windshield in the top position, no one knows I'm on the bike, even with my helmet visor open. The noise cancellation is that good. Sena seems to market more, but in my opinion, Cardo is much better.
As an off-road coach, this video was helping in us making our decision on which unit to purchase for training. I agree completely that it is time to come up with an open-source mesh system that will allow all units from various manufacturers to communicate with the entire group.
I have a Cardo, love it!. I 100percent agree they need a standard mesh!!! That would be amazing!!!
Yeah same here love my cardo but sad part I can't connect with buddy's sena 🙄
@@dunay77 its not the same because I won't be able to listen to music🥺
It shouldn’t be “amazing” the entire point of Bluetooth is to be an open standard this situation makes Apple look downright generous. I’m actually going to file a complaint with the Bluetooth SIG (developers forum). Won’t do crap but worth a shot
Just to clarify. Bluetooth mesh IS AN OPEN TECHNOLOGY. You have to actually go OUT OF YOUR WAY to make it NOT WORK with other implementations. I’m not sure if it’s Cardo or Sena that’s going out of their way to do so, but from the looks of things it’s Cardo if I understand correctly they released mesh units first, that would mean when Sena followed up they’d be shooting themselves in the foot by not using the implementation Cardo does, only reason they’d not do so is if Cardo went out of their way to hijack the open standard that is Bluetooth mesh and turn it into a proprietary format. This pisses me off and I’m going to be doing some digging and calling some people out after I figure out who’s playing what games here. Hopefully a bigger youtuber will take my research and use it to pressure the manufacturers.
And if the situation is neither of the above and literally both Cardo and Sena managed to “accidentally” take an open standard and make two incompatible implementations of it, then that’s even worse and frankly a 3rd party deserves to step in and swallow the market while. No idea where Cardo or Sena is based but this is the type of situation that leaves American and Western companies as sitting ducks, sitting greedy a$$ ducks, as a Chinese or Taiwanese manufacturer can step in overnight and use a far cheaper already standardized Bluetooth stack to do the same thing even better and steal all the market share and Cardo (assuming they’re the market leader) would have earned exactly that by failing to give a crap about their customers money and trying to milk them dry over “new features” that are literally being developed by a group that gives it out for free basically while Cardo and Sena try to act like they’re some innovative company. Ugh.
Just Purchased the Cardo Palk Talk Bold most of my fellow riders run Sena.... And yes these two units need to be able to talk to each other in Mesh, Sound and water proofing was the biggest factor for me as any ADV rider needs to be able to keep going in the wet, The Cardo does this for me. Voice commands are tricky at first but i have found if you roll the CARDO in "Hey Cardo" and finish of sharply with Volume up e.t.c it works great, The unit don't like the Ozzie slang and you find your self 5km down road reaching for the buttons if you revert back to this language. The sound out of the JBL Speakers is great and even in a MX style helmet with goggles can hear the beats nicely.
Thank you for your video. Great content. Helps make my decision easier.... Buy neither for now. Wait for the next generation of Pack Talk... Hopefully with USB Type C fast charging and Bluetooth 5.0.
Awinash Ragothaman ... My thinking as well. This ^ 👍🏼
Wise decision.... think I’ll do the same m. When spending that much moolah, a little waiting wouldn’t hurt!
My Cardo went through the washing machine & still works perfectly!!!!! Don’t think my heart didn’t sink when I realized what happened🤣
why was it going through the wash in the first place
@@manuelcuevas7045 Great question. It was my husband’s and he put it in his pocket after a ride & forgot it was there. I threw the clothes in the washer and there you have it🤣🤣🤣
I gave Sena another chance after the 30k crap, sadly they failed again this time.
I'll stick with Cardo Pactalk!
Almost new Sena 50R on sale now!
The 50R is inferior to the 50S and the 50S is the unit that is more comparable to the PackTalk. The 30K is a better unit than the 50R... just upgrade it with the HD speakers.
Thanks for your review, interesting. I have a set of 2 x 50S for 2 years, I was happy until my battery started dying in 1 and a half hour ride. Sena said the solution is to buy a new unit and I'm not happy with this solution.
Also agree with you on the voice command; I haven't been able to use it in a comfortable way when my friends that use Cardo, they are very comfortable using voice command for every need.
I have another comment; when you use Mesh intercom between 50S and some others 50S seems to work very good, but when there is somebody in the group with a Sena Mesh but different model, then electronic static noise started getting in the communication.
I had used 20S duo pack for many years, now have used 50S for couple years and feeling disappointed with the Sena.
Owned a 30K, bought a Packtalk Bold. Cardo for the win. Everything about it is better. I just use Bluetooth phone call when riding with my Sena wearing friend. The only solution at this point for that. Cardo just does it better. I agree with you wholeheartedly on them coming up with a common source mesh. That would make the world a better place.
Very good review, totally agree on the open mesh. There should be an open standard so that people can choose the comms system they want and still comminicate with all current units. Regardless of who manufactured it.
Excellent video. Thanks taking the time to film and edit it and of course for positing it for our benefit. Keep up the good work! -Migs
I have used a senna for several years and to get around distance anxiety our group uses an app call "discord" which uses your phone and conference call amongst all riders . The only draw back is cell reception and of course an unlimited plan comes in handy also.
Nice! Discord for the win. Not just for gamers!
Well done LWH, another great video, with good humour.
Round 1. Both pricey
Round 2. Battery life same? But Packtalk has better warning before dead
Round 3. range test? Sena wins by hair
Round 4. Wind noise? Packtalk bold wins
Round 5. Water proof? Packtalk bold
Winner: Packtalk Bold wins the fight however both companies should get together and make mesh shareable.
I know some guys that have both systems set up on different helmets. I guess it’s like having a PlayStation 4 and Xbox one.
A really great review (again!). My experience has exactly mirrored yours with both manufacturers - Sena continues to offer subpar, buggy products that really negatively impact my ride. Every Sena ride is guaranteed to have 15 minutes of messing around trying to get everyone connected. Not to mention that Sena sound quality at speed is so poor that I can’t hear my group past about 65 mph. Cardo on the other hand can link up a group in about 30 seconds through their app, and then you’re done. Forever. And Cardo’s sound cancellation software allows voice communication up to about 100 mph in the same helmet (well, I mean in theory, what kind of crazy person would ever go 100 mph?). What has bothered me as well of late is the number of major helmet manufacturers who have gotten in bed with Sena or offer some proprietary nonsense built into an otherwise desirable lid. Luckily my Packtalk Bold just glued right on top of the Sena insert on my Neotec 2, but I would have far preferred a more elegant solution.
Hey thanks for your awesome content! Your reviews are honest and thorough, truly some of the very best I’ve found on the interwebs. And you’re really funny. You’ve quickly become one of my very favorite motorcycle channels. And if Sena and Cardo, or other potential sponsors, are listening you’ve already impacted several of my motorcycle related buying decisions. Strong work!
I'm from Germany and I could only laugh about the 100mph :P That is a speed I ride like every day on my way to work on the Autobahn :D Communication with cardo still works fine. Unfortunately Sena has a market share from above 80% here in Germany. So many people here doesn't even know about Cardo and think this is a bad and cheap brand...
I upgraded my Sena 20K to the Pack Talk Bold a couple years ago. Mainly for the wind cancellation. Second is the water proof. Even though I had the 20K in some serious rain and never had an issue with it. My Cardo starts to warn me at 25 percent battery life with a beep.
2nd 50S just died on me in light rain. My old 20S would always work after drying out. I'm done with Sena.
Great video and you made my decision for me, thank you! I love the way you thoroughly tested both back to back and highlighted their pros and cons. I've been riding with a Sena 10c since it for first came out but it's starting to get old and won't hold a charge as long. You hit it right on the head about Sena really just catching up to Cardo and sprinkling a few updates to make it look advanced. A head scratcher for me with Cardo is use a mini USB charging instead of USB C std that allows faster charging times and just plain easier! Wtf Cardo?? Clearly one of your engineers fell asleep. But it's not enough for me to not get the new Cardo Packtalk Black tho so thank you!
I started with the Sena 20S a few years back which was a great little unit. Sena luckily took so long to release the 30S that my friends and I jumped ship after a brief and painful interlude with Interphone to the Cardo PackTalk and then to the Bold and Slim versions. I can honestly say we use them every weekend and on trips to NordKapp, the Bulkans Spain and the French Alps to name but a few and are very happy with the reliability and poverall performance.
While we have experienced some technical difficulties with helmet wiring failing, overall I totally agree with what has been said in the video. MESH while frankly perfect for us as we tend to ride close together has a limited range much lower than the publicized 1.6k and I too ride with a modular helmet which the Cardo handles very well although you do need to put the larger foam mic cover on to effectively block out the wind.
Voice commands are great although I do think there is still room for improvement as false activations are still a common occurrence and it would be great if some of the voice features could be disabled to suite individual rider preferences. Not sure about open MESH as we like to be in control of who we allow into the group but I see the attraction. Overall CARDO gets a big thumbs up and I will continue to recommend their products. Looking forward to the next update.
Thank you, thank you. I will return and exchange my 50r to packtalk. My main issue got answered with this video
I originally purchased Sena and was happy. I knew a few people with them and we could connect and chat. It worked but after the first few days I was not really blown away by it but continued to use it and be content. Later I got a new helmet and decided to get a new comm device rather than transfer it over. I got a Cardo and was immediately impressed everything was just a little better my opinion. I eventually got used to using it and didnt think much of it. That was until I went back to the helmet with the Sena and I was immediately disappointed. The audio quality was very bad while riding comparatively and it just wasn't as easy to use and setup.
This prompted me to get a few friends that could afford them to purchase a Cardo as well. The only issue I ever had was I purchased a Packtalk Slim and the charging port broke. Luckily Cardo warrantied it for 2 years and replaced it for free. The port breaking was almost a deal breaker though. Was so angry as I was so careful with it. Luckily Cardo had a new unit in my hands in less that a week. Excellent warranty and customer service and here is me hoping that the issue that caused the failure in the first place has been fixed. (its rather common on the original slim from looking online) One friend purchased a slim with me and had the same issue and my other friends got the Bold and never had this problem. The replacement unit looks a little different on the outside so I am hopeful that the problem with the port has been fixed.
Overall I like the Cardo but an worried about it breaking again as the warranty is almost up. I really like the low profile of the slim but cannot recommend it at this time. The Bold seems good but I just don't have the experience with it to say its the best device. If it doesn't have the port issue I can say I would not hesitate to recommend it though.
We are a group of four riders using the Cardo Packtalk Bold units. Bought them 'cause another group of riders recommended them to us. We're absolutly happy, even with open helmets clear voice and talking up to 110km/h then the wind noise overlays the talking voice. Otherwise no issues with understanding. Rangewise, far below the announced the distance. You're fine up to 300-400 meters then it cuts out. The group remains in this distance anyway so no problems so far.
I have the Sena SRL 2 in my Shoei and have had no problems what so ever. It does everything i want it to do, and imho it looks far better than something stuck on the outside of the helmet.
The SHO-1 is a similar low profile design and the packtalk slim is also very similar. I agree that the low profile units are much better looking and honestly produce less wind noise.
Thank you. Helped me decide as I was waiting to see which one is better (for me). Packtalk Bold it is.
LOVE my Packtalk Bold !!
I have a packtalk slim, same specs as the bold but it looks nicer
I have both the Cardo pack talk, Sena 20s Evo and also the Sena 50s. The unit I wear depends on who I am riding with. If I ride alone I wear the Cardo. The hands free functions of the cardo work much better than anything else. I have not tried the 50s mesh yet as none of my riding buddies have a 50s. The speakers in the Cardo are brilliant and the 50s speakers have been greatly improved. Both company's mesh working together would be amazing.
Maybe Sena should spend a little less on marketing and a little more on R&D, just a thought.
@J G Yup you're right! Maybe the wind filter is more difficult but to me it just looks like they're spending their budget on paying off motovloggers XD.
J G EOS R5? It’s an super amazing camera. The haters whine about the overheating issue, they forget the device is a Photography Camera with video feature. The main objective is still photos not video. The 8k video is there as bonus not main feature. Sena 50K/R failed because of overall features are inferior than 4 years old Pactalk Bold.
Well people are stupid enough to believe paid review.
I know this is an old thread but I'm going to add my 2 cents. I agree that the mesh systems between the 2 need to be compatible so that you can connect to whoever you're riding with no matter what unit they have. Unfortunately, my friends all use the Sena. I have both the 50S and the Packtalk Bold. I'm switching out to Packtalk because Sena support is horrendous and they have some known issue that doesn't allow the Sena's to connect to the updating software. I got told some BS by Sena that it was because I was using a browser other than Chrome. Uh, yeah because you have to use Sena software!! The browser doesn't even come into play!! So FU Sena. I'm out.
I have watched this again and again and the only thing that makes sense is your video. It’s such a pity they don’t do an open mesh THEN the choice is so much easier. Thank you for your great review as always
Thanks for the great review. I am thinking of upgrading my ancient Sena SMH10B and this review has probably pushed me in a direction.
Some music is just noise and Cardo knows it
Your statement is subjective, prejudiced and yet highly amusing.
Hahah- tshtshtshtshtsh
D Melson your comment is subjective, prejudiced and yet highly amusing
Spot on. I know the Sena 20s is capable of noise suppression because if you transmit silent A2dp it will cancel the wind noise kind of but allows the mic to transmit voice. It's like it's there but nobody tested it to see if it was implemented correctly.
Cardo should license their mesh technology to willing 3rd party comm manufacturer partners... creating a de facto standard.
Thats tricky. On one hand you don't want to charge to much for the licensing so other manufacturers will buy it but on the other hand you don't want it to be so cheap that they can massively under sell you and kill your own product.
@@BrandGSX True, it would be tricky. The devil would be in the details. Specifically the documents to keep the licensing reasonable and accountable. Technology Sharing Agreement with a reverse engineering clause, Manufacturing Licensing Agreement, Non Disclosure Agreement, Terms Of Use, Manufacture Developer Kit. And so on.
Think in the scope of "big tech". Sell the product and the platform. Sell the device... but also sell the operating system, the CPU & GPU, the RAM and the displays.
Define the platform. Set the standard. Dominate manufacturing and retail markets.
Thanks for the comparison video.
Through the years Sena has repeatedly demonstrated their inability to manufacture an honest product and I truly despise them for that.
Having said that I did take them up on their rebated offer which had me relinquish my 20S and upgrade to the 50S. I figured it was the best way to deal with an aged 20S that had become a dust collecting paperweight. Even though fully functional old technology eventually becomes obsolete so it’s better to recoup salvage dollars while keeping pace with the current tech however flawed its execution may be.
I do hope that Cardo will step up to the plate and introduce an updated unit with a proper USB C port and an external speaker port if it doesn’t already have one. That is where I will look to spend my retail dollars going forward.
^ This
Bernd DasBrot - “... *if* it doesn’t already have one ...”. Comprender?
Thanks, I did a search for reviews of the two units. As always, this one is all I need. Great channel.
friends have cardo, sena and other cheap variants, so on group rides we use group call and now whatsapp group call with normal in ear headphones, mic tucked between cheekpad and face, it sounds surprisingly good, no wind noise. The motorcycle communicators feel like old tech with no great usability for the price, the fact that the devices cannot communicate between each other is sad, pay 300euro and have to use our phones for group rides...not optimal but only way we can all speak to each other.
Engineered incompatibility ... Capitalism at its finest/most efficient ... 😏
Good point ... Cardo AND Sena might just make both of themselves redundant, if they keep playing incompatibility games ...
Bernd DasBrot - I assume you meant hearing directions? If you want to hear commands, get a wife! 😜
Why not just use bluetooth mode and daisy chain? You don't have to use the mesh network on Cardo or Sena or most other brands to link up a large group. But if you have enough Cardo owners in the group (half) you can have them use bridge mode and each bring one rider into the network with other brand comms, even phones.
With that said it must be nice to have unlimited data, great phone coverage and battery life. As soon as we get into the mountains our riding group wouldn't be able to talk and phone batteries die fast then they are in constant use. These standalone comms defiantly have their place but it nice you were able to find a way to ride without them.
Cardo is 100% the best system out there bar none..it’s the only system I recommend to my customers 🤙
I have gen 1, still going strong, in all weather.
Does your store stock UClear? On paper their line up is impressive but I've yet to see them in person
Thank you for this post😃👍🏻
A good few moons ago I bought a Schuberth C4 helmet and the com's system that slots into the helmet.
The helmet has done more miles going between the Schuberth distributor in the UK and back to myself then back and fourth it's even made it to Schuberth in Germany twice. This is further than I have ridden my bike in the time I have owned the helmet and system.
It turns out the system is made by SENA and water ingression wrecks the control unit, even though the unit slots in to a designed space on the underside of the helmet. I managed to figure out the problem myself after my helmets many holidays and it was as simple a fix as applying a little dielectric grease to the control unit where it lights up. Why it lights up in an area that you can't see, on the bottom of your helmet is a mystery to me. I informed Schuberth of the fix, I think they regret the deal they made with Sena.
I see you have the BMW helmet, have you tried their system, I don't know who makes it for BMW, probably Sena, I have an inkling Cardo might not work with a German company.
I owned an original Cardo system years ago and it lasted 10+ years, I personally think they are far superior.
I am a longtime Sena user, as are most of my riding buddies. My default BT intercome is a Sena 10C Pro, and will probably continue to be. I commmute 75 miles a day in the Los Angles area and I prefer to video record my commutes for liability reasons. That being said, I used an older Sena unit (SMH-10) whenever the weather turned wet, which actually does happen occasionally in LA. This past week, I lost my second Sena unit due to rain. Granted it was over 3 years old, but I just can't see making the commute without music and I haven't found earbuds that are comfortable under my helmet. So this weekend I purchased a Cardo Freecom 4+. Nice features, yada yada, but most importatly, waterproof. Had no problems paring with a Sena user via Universal Intecom mode and have been very pleased so far. Since I will only be using the Cardo when there is a threat of rain, it may be a while before I have a firm opinion of it but, as you have said, waterproofing is such an important feature, it's difficult to understand why Sena continues to ignore it.
Cardo doesn't have play nice, there's is simply better. I have the Pac Talk Slim and love it!
Yep I luv the Slim . . . . a nice low profile on my helmet . . . . however; Cardo might have done better by locating the USB charge socket on the battery pack that sits at the back of the helmet thus making it easier to get to.
I bought the duo slims and a friend of mine also bought one and all 3 have had the charging port fail... I'm trying to get cardo to fix mine now?
I've had the 50r for about 6 weeks and I agree that the 50r is an improvement but my decision to select the device was mainly based on my group of friends', all Sena.
I've used the 50r, in all weather conditions and its performance is good and the audio quality from the new speakers is very good. However, the noise cancellation on the 50r is very poor and does not work as promoted by Sena, and the voice controls using Hi Siri is inconsistent.
The speaker still not as good as JBL speaker on Cardo. The voice command on Sena is a joke.
@@sukhoi3747 At the moment I would agree. Unless they make improvements to the noise cancellation and the voice commends I would not recommend the Sena 50r.
I have had the Sena SMH10, I now own the cardo packtalk bold duo and without a doubt... THE SENA IS THE MOST INTUITIVE HEADSET OUT THERE. touch a button to play music, hold that button to share with other units, next track, roll the wheel forward, previous track roll it back, everything pretty much revolves around the main button and wheel which is so easy to use even wearing the thickest gloves.
The Cardo may be better at being weatherproof and wind noise reduction, but it has multiple tiny little buttons, they are very confusing (if you can find them with winter gloves on,) I have not managed to get the voice commands to work and there are many to remember. Using the FM radio (I don't ever listen to radio) regardless of whether I scan forward or backwards on the cardo... it is always the same station, never changes.
Both are excellent for sound and voice quality but I was using the sena within a minute of attaching it to my helmet (also sena has better helmet attachment), while I struggle to make the cardo do what I want it to do, 3 days after owning it. When I use my sena, it plays the tracks I have set up, the cardo app finds some long forgotten tracks on my phone and I cannot seem to control what it picks. I would not say it is user unfriendly but the controls should be stolen from sena's simplistic super effective SMH 10.
I have used bold for myself and 3 riders since it was released. It just works. Now you can share music on mesh even better
Unless you go swimming with the Sena it works fine in the rain for hours. I live in WA State and it rains a lot when I am riding. Like every time. The noise recognition is a problem for the Sena tho
Yeah, I've ride with this whole caught in a monsoon and had no issues. I'm not trying to jump into a pool anytime soon so waterproof is overkill.
Had Sena 30K initially and then upgraded to the 50S. However, whenever my husband and I are out riding we have to turn the mics off due to too much wind noise which rather defeats the purpose of having something readily available in case of emergency to point out things on the road. He listens to music I listen to audio books. Much better when I ride only by myself as I don't have to listen to his wind noise. However, I'm about ready to go back to regular CB use.
I bought the cardo packtalk bold for Xmas and love it
So easy to connect using an app rather than buttons
And the voice controls are great.
Put in my earplugs and ride
Love the mesh connect once and you dont have to do it again your buddies come around the music dims slightly and you're talking again
A few years ago, most of my friends had Sena so that's what I spent a bunch of money on. Then they all went out and spent their money on the new Cardo pack talk... A compatible mesh would be great. Everyone could buy the one that fits their needs the best. C'mon Cardo! C'mon Sena!
Thank you. Great review. I'm now in the market for a new unit as my Sena 10U gave up a month ago. It won't charge any more. I wish that both companies would work on quick battery replacement like on a Drift Ghost camera. Having to buy a new unit because of poor or no charging is very crap. I did decide to open the unit up to see if I could replace the battery, but found that the unit had water damage too. So far I think it is between Cardo and Interphone.
Thank you for your review we were ready to give up on Cardo we have been having issues with the packtalk slim. Two vacations with no communication he in the US. Cardo stepped up and sent out two new unites so we will see how they work. Just just updated to latest firmware and reinstalled in helmets. I help manage a group of about 350 bikers so it is good to give an update to how both units are working. Thanks again. Thank you for listening to us Cardo!!!
So, now what's your feedback? Do you recommend Cardo Packtalk Bold?
Great review/comparison. The lack of interoperability is disappointing.
I have the Packtalk Slim JBL (Shoei X14) as I have a sport bike. It works pretty well, though I am looking forward to an update that provides longer range and fixes some issues.
bernhtp - Nice. Thinking of getting a Slim for my X14 (600RR); still seems like the best of the current options? Either that or wait for a new Cardo unit update. No regrets with your Slim?
@@kierenmoore3236 Be careful of the charging port. Look it up as they do break on the slim. Only problem I ever had. My replacement one Cardo sent me for free looks a little different on the outside so I hope it has been addressed and fixed as it is a common issue.
just got a Cardo Freecom4+ last week and i have already called through half my contacts using the voice commands.... i did not want to speak to any of them and it was very uncomfortable :D But beyond that, if it actually calls the right person, the quality of the sound and the wind noise cancellation is amazing!!
Lol ... “You meet the nicest people, on a ...” Cardo?!! 🙃
Where I am the Cardo Freecom4+ is not that much cheaper than buying a BOLD or a SLIM . . . . . so why did you buy the Freecom? I can only guess that money was real tight . . . no shame in that scenario.
Thanks for this video ! Test of noise/wind canceling was awesome ! So I bought Cardo Bold 👍🏻
Good review, thanks. So Cardo it is. I'm mostly focused on cell phone and music. Like the idea of nice speakers. Which cardo would you suggest?
If "intercoming" is not that important, any of the freecom units with the JBL speakers will be fine. Otherwise, the Bold.
My upgrade will include universal mesh. Currently Sena & Cardo will not get my money because of current limitations with Mesh technology. I'll live with the 20s until such time.
I think I knew some of the landscape when I saw the Arges plates :) I live not far from there, near Sibiu part of the year. Right between us there is magnificent roads for riding.
Im curious tho, judging by that decal on your bike are you from SA or Romania?
Probably an independent standards organization will need to define a universal mesh protocol before there is hope for interoperability. It seems unlikely the two companies will be able to do it on their own due to competitive forces.
Engineered incompatibility ... Capitalism at its finest/most efficient ... 😏
@@kierenmoore3236 Maybe. Or maybe not. Just like there is more than one way from point A to B, there are multiple ways to solve given engineering problem, like a mesh. There's way more to that than "we've got the mesh", so their implementations might differ by the details. And the devil lays in the details.
Perhaps Apple will step up!
@@michaelmatheson2279 Wouldn't that be cool for Apple AirPods to serve as motorcycle intercom!
To be honest, we will never be in a group mode and need mesh. Not only would it be distracting but I would go so far as to say its Dangerous. Normal Pairing mode has served us very well for many years and will continue for the foreseeable future.
Totally agree with the fact that I'm not buying either of them because of the proprietary nature of the mesh protocols.
Nicely done video. I'm sure the two companies will now come to their senses and cooperate. 😁
Engineered incompatibility ... Capitalism at its finest/most efficient ... 😏
@@kierenmoore3236 Both companies use pretty standard hardware in their units that can communicate with each other if the software was compatible. As far as I know the mesh network on both actually run on garden variety Bluetooth but its the underlying software that makes them work the way they do. Pretty sure they could get them to work together if they wanted but that would risk one of them losing customers to the other so its probably not something they are willing to risk.
I have been saying the same thing for a long time! All communication head sets should use standard mesh communication instead of not working very well with each other even on Bluetooth mode...
Fully agree, spending that much money, Sena should be water proof. Also Sena seem hell bent on over stating there product and relying on brand name which is reducing yearly. I look forward to the day when pairing has an industry standard and you don’t have to be constrained to a brand name. Hell even Apple & Microsoft are closing that gap.
Well made vid bro. Thank you.
Agree with you completely... Cardo and Sena should be able to talk to each other. Let's not divide the community!
Bold or the Slim? using the Arai XD4. Great fun review thanks
The Sena 30 Series DID suck, but the newest firmware fixes make it work as well as the 20S, including Open Mesh. All the newest Sena firmware make all the units really good.
Just remember you need that original Micro USB cable that came with your 20S/30 to use the PC software. I think a pin is jumpered or a loop is in there because a normal data/charging cable will not work. If I get bored, I might pin it out and see what makes it different. Sena fixed the unsigned drivers issue with the Sena Device Management software v4.1.1
I cannot afford to change to Cardo on all my units, but my non-PackTalk buddies swear Cardo is fantastic. My Sena's are great. And now that I have a +Mesh, I may just buy a PackTalk, but I'd really rather borrow one and see if its really going to give me what I want. If the Cardo PackTalk works with the Sena +Mess, then I could talk to Sena Open Mesh and Cardo PackTalk Mesh and bridge between all the Cardo and Sena models that Mesh and or Bluetooth. And I would have the waterproof unit I want, not that my Sena's have ever failed due to water. But I have never (Knock on wood) submerged one and cannot afford to test that.
Cardo hands down. I've had sena. I wouldn't say garbage but still not even in the same class as Cardo. Just the wind noise cancel alone makes it worth it. And theres so much more
I use Cardo 4+ saved a time of money and it works great as intended. Yes you are correct I tell my friends to buy what I have.
I totally agree with your comments on "Why can't a Sena talk to a Cardo". If one of them came up with a unit to talk to another brand, SOLD AMERICAN
Long time Subscriber - First time commenter !! Been a Sena user since 2012, although still on the 10 series (10U is integrated in my Klim Krios helmet) - I TOTALLY agree with you about a standard mesh system. We have one rider in our group who uses Cardo, and it's 30 mins before we can ride dicking about with universal pairing.
Totally considering the Cardo for my next lid - if I ever get to ride again with this bloody pandemic
So surprised that Sena is not waterproof. We use Sena smh 10 which are now so outdated but are waterproof . They work without issues for us although not a mesh unit. This new unit seems like a step backward since the smh10 is so old in a technology based product.
While a bit inconsistent the voice command capability makes it a top choice
Great video !
I have One question, do you know the difference between cardo bold and cardo black on the real life? Regards!
wonder who'll be the first bike manufacturer to integrate comms into their bike?
Have packtalk slim, brother of the Bold. Biggest quality issue is the ridiculously prone to damage charging point in the unit. The small USB connector is to flimsy for durability. Had to send one back already after on 3k miles using it. The process was very easy and no quibble.
Agree. USB Type C is the way to go.
I currently have a 20S and it annoyed me from day one as I can barely hear music or a phone call at highway speeds. Will give Cardo a try when I buy a new lid later this year.
Great test btw, although somewhat inconclusive IMO.
Couldn't agree more with open mesh allowing Sena and Cardo to connect with each other.
Very good point about both systems mesh mode being pointlessly exclusive. It serves absolutely no purpose. Unfortunately 2 years down the road it doesn't seem like any of them are keen on doing anything about this.
I know more people that have Sena but the few people that have a Cardo was once on a Sena or started with Cardo. The Sena side would say it's the "known motorcycle brand" and the Cardo side would say that "it works better than Sena".
I'm still doing all the research I can before I pick a side. Kinda leaning toward Cardo
I am wanting a bluetooth headset for GPS and for music. Don't need a mic but want GOOD sound. What would you suggest using? Thanks for you advice in advance! Tommy
*Bone conductors are the future of helmet audio.* I adapted aftershokz bone conductors to mount to the exterior shell of the helmet resulting in crystal clear audio. Audio is transmitted directly to the auditory nerve so nothing covers your ears. You can still easily hear a horn or issues with your bike if something isn't right. Someone should patent this, because I'm just an idea man
Apologies if this has been answered. I want a Pactalk but my current riding buddies bought Sena 20s systems which I don’t think have Mesh anyway. Will the Cardo and Sena systems be able to connect with Bluetooth?
If I ever start riding in groups that use comms, I'll pick up a Cardo. There are ways to rig one system to the other and bring groups together (so I've heard). But even if it doesn't work as advertised, I prefer waterproof guarantees. The only reason I haven't been caught in a storm this year is the pandemic. In the last week there have been pop-up storms around the region at my normal commute times. So, traveling from home to office and back, means possibly getting wet once in a while. If it can't take being hosed down by a tropical storm once in a while, it can't be on my bike.
I have both the Edge and the 50s, by far the biggest difference is that I can use the Edge with good ear plugs and at highway speed I can hear it clearly at a bit over middle volume. On the 50s I have to have it at max volume and it's still too quiet for me to say it sounds good with ear plugs at highway speeds (ambient sounds wash it out).
Open mesh is a cool idea but in my years of using the 50s I've only actually ran into other open users once (earlier this year on the PA Wilds BDRx). I DO think the community would benefit from a TRULY open mesh architecture... but Sena will never do it (because right now the Cardo is substantially better, they need the captured market).
I completely agree with you selecting cardo over sena. However, I do like a lot that the sena 50 offers 4 Bluetooth channels compare to cardo offering only 2 Bluetooth channels. Let me explain why having more then just 2 channels is very important. These days both units use an app that you have on your phone to allow ease of use and to make and receive calls. This uses 1 Bluetooth channel. Then you have a lot of riders who use these units that rides bikes equipped with with a info system and that also needs to be connected to these devices. This uses another Bluetooth channel. With the sena 50 you still have 2 more Bluetooth channels to use to connect to any other riders that use systems not equipped to connect on the mesh system. With cardo you already used up all your Bluetooth channels and thus can only connect to other riders also using cardo by mesh. Now if cardo could find a way to add 1 or 2 more Bluetooth channels, then I for one would get it. As it is now I do have the cardo bold but rarely use it because I can’t connect to any riders using sena or other device due to the lack of Bluetooth channels available once connected to my phone and bike.
Cardo. Got it 4 months ago. The best!
A couple months ago I purchased a Cardo Packtalk Black, because I only had Sena so far. Indeed the quality of the sound is better with the 42''JBL speakers, compared to my integrated Sena systems. However over 90 km/h the difference is voided since you can't hear anymore the fat bass from Cardo, actually over 90 km/h, the GPS and intercom is better audible on Sena. What I really enjoy on Cardo is the noise cancellation. Is better than Sena's, at least according to my wife that can understand me better while I'm using the Cardo together with my Vance & Hines slip-ons :) However I have a different experience about the voice commands. While Sena understands me 100% of the time, on Cardo is impossible to give any command... That is not a problem for me since I am a button pusher anyway, but just saying... Well, there is one thing that makes me not using the Cardo - the Bluetooth mixing. While on Sena works perfectly, on Cardo when I speak with my wife on intercom, the GPS voice gets interrupted, rendering it useless. Same thing happens with music. Their support wasn't helpful so far, the issue persists. Because of that, I am really thinking of replacing it on that helmet with a Sena 50S or 50R.
I have recently traded my sena for a packtalk, and it's better in every way except the voice quality. I have a hard time understanding my pillion because her voice is muffled. Anyone else have this? Any way to fix it? I have tried both microphone types they are the same. It is good at taking the wind out but it sounds muffled, the sena was always quite clear for voice communication.
You are spot on re: “make love not war.” I did find that my local cycle gear store was saying “most everyone in this area uses Sena.” Wouldn’t it be nice if they worked easily together?
I HAVE A SENA IN A SHOEI NEOTEC 2 HELMET, USES BLUETOOTH.WE ALWAYS HAVE TROUBLE CONNECTING TO EACH OTHER. IT WAS MORE OF A PAIN IN THE ASS STAYING CONNECTED AND GETTING BACK CONNECTED AFTER A STOP. THREE OF US JUST BOUGHT THE CARDO BACKTALK BLACK AT AMERICADE THIS WEEKEND .SOUNDS LIKE THEY ARE A BETTER UNIT, BUT WORRIED ABOUT HOW THEY ATTACH TO THE MOUNT THAT CLIPS ONTO THE HELMET. IT SEEMS AS THOUGH IF YOU BUMP THE MOUNTING CLIP FOR THE UNIT THAT IT MAY FALL OFF, I MAY TRY TO ADD A CABLE TIE TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T. CAN'T WAIT TO TRY THEM OUT.
My riding buddy and I bought a duo set of PackTalk Bolds but it only came with one set of manuals - which is pretty lame after having paid more than. $500 for the pair.
I have asked for a second set and offered to pay for them but Cardo says they don’t have any additional manuals available - gimme a break.
Isn't there a PDF file that can be downloaded and printed?
Lucky Larrikin yes - but it is formatted such that you cannot print it at a usable size (believe I tried).
@@assessor1276 Did you try 'Custom Scale' print size under "Page Sizing & Handling" in Adobe Acrobat Pro (not the free 'Reader' program)?
Love your reviews I have the cardo packtalk bold I keep constantly getting wind noise from my wife’s headset,I’ve tried different microphones even tried tape over mic any ideas thanks John
Does the Cardo have universal connectivity? Cardo to other Intercomm? One to One?
Thanks for the review. When doing a range test could you elevate the stationary system to 1.5m to 2m to represent it being worn by another rider. With RF height equates to range. You might also get ground plane effect with the antenna being so close to the ground this may impact the range and stability of the signal.
Good point, so I went out again. Got about 20% more range. 100m.
Thank you for your review. After watching this review of yours, I just purchased Cardo PackTalk Slim a few days go. Somehow though, the voice command does not seem to work when I am riding (it works fine when I stopped with "OK Google" though). Also, for the sound quality for the music listening, I think my $30 bluetooth earbuds have much better quality. I will probably have more firm(?) opinion later. Most of my friends seem to have Sena and Uclear, but hopefully the bluetooth connection still does a job...
Excelent video, I was like in doubt on getting the SENA unit or the CARDO... Know I'm going totally for the CARDO. The waterproof and windsupression is a yes yes... You win a subscribe Sr! XD!!! Cya!
Hi
your video make me buy cardo last winter and i watch a lot off videos which is the best.
Keep making great videos 🤘🤘🤘
The Cardo phone app seems hit and miss... sometimes it shows a green bar but says no device connected. I can play music on my phone and it comes through the headset but to use the app, I need to turn off the phone bluetooth and back on again before the app connects.
The last sugestion is brilliant and simple as it is.
Do you know if Cardo Freecom 4+ also has a wind/noise cancellation function as you show at 5:50? And wether it is as good as on newest Cardo Packtalk units?
I've had the Cardo Backtalk Bold and now the Sena 50S. I switched due to Harleys need of a Sena. I have issues with voice recognition on both. Neither recognizes my voice. No issue with "Hey Siri" or "OK Google". It's the algorithm in the units themselves. Neither company could offer a solution.
Best video. Well said and fair. Cardo, please get helmet options going! Why don’t y’all just merge companies so we can get the best of both. This war sucks.
Agreed Sena & Cardo get your act together and fix your mesh systems.
Sena has the largest market share and I doubt they want to risk losing customers because they can go out and buy "Brand X" and still chat with their friends. Cardo is gaining a large customer base and doesn't want to risk the same thing. Unlikely to happen. The bluetooth consortium/SIG would need to do this as they have no skin in the game.
Can you please do a video on how to connect the Cardo Packtalk Edge to the new Skidoo Vibe comm system made by Sena. Thanks 👍