Don't forget, in racing applications Rotaries are renowned for their reliability. It is amazing how reliable they can be when you look after them. Mazda Rotaries, other than Honda, have finished more than any other car over the years they raced at Le Mans 24h. Honda may have a better finish average, however they only raced there once so you can't really find a true trend.
that peugeot at the end was classic. the sound of the 787b was godly down the straights. it's right up there, in my book of the greatest sounding car engines, at le mans, of all time.
David Kennedy, Stefan Johansson or Maurizio Sandro Sala. By the way they were not banned as such from competing - the world sportscar racing rules simply outlawed anything that didn't use a 3.5L F1 engine. It was a change which had been on the cards since 1988, sadly :(
The difference in commitment compared to when Johnny Herbert was reunited with his famous 787B in 1991 is obvious. There is no substitute for the "white heat" of the race!
Have to agree,was at every lemans from 1985 to 2003,the 4-rotor was just painfully loud,with the previous 3-rotor your ears bled(almost),Porsche=purred,Mercedes=rumbled,Jaguar=wailed,Mazda 4R=screamed,Mazda 3R=torture
yes, before the 1990 race. thusly they were used for the 1990 race. saying otherwise would imply they came out after the 1990 race in time for the 1991 race.
The "low for a rotary" rev limit of around 9000 rpm during the race apparently was so the car would keep to the fuel consumption formula that was in force at the time. It was also mentioned that if they let it rev to around 10,500ish (which engineers apparently said is no problem) power would have jumped from 700hp to around 900hp. Don't flame me for this, I am just passing on what I read in an article about the 787B once!
I know it's an old comment but just to be factual, there were 3 Mazdas in the race, two 787b's (The winning number 55 Renown car and the 6th Place white no.18) and a single standard 787 no.56 which finished 8th. They also brought a standard 787 T car which wasn't used.
@keeevan Brakes period make sound. Brakes produce different resonate frequencies based on the size/material of the components and heat. Sometimes these frequencies are audible to humans. Car companies do a lot of work on component sizing to eliminate squeak under normal driving conditions. Road car brakes frequently squeak when they get hot. Sometimes brakes make audible sound when they're hot, sometimes when they're cold. It just depends on the materials and the conditions.
@mee198205 US IMSA Series - They dominated the GTO class. The RX-7 has won more IMSA races than any other car model. Also won the ATCC (Australian Touring Car Championship) in 1984. Banned in '85
Here's the thing Maxilicious, in 91 Le Mans cars ran to a fuel consumption formula. The superior fuel economy of the 787B compared to the Jag and Merc etc with 7.4L engines, allowed Mazda to run the car flat out for the full 24 hours. The Jags in particular had to back right off so they didn't run out of their allocated fuel stock. Yes, they suck fuel for their capacity, but are not as bad when comparing it to performance. The Mazda was 1000kg like all the other cars (Jag/Merc etc.).
@sidodorifto (FormulaOneSpy is my other account) Maybe I could have been clearer but obviously I was only talking about the World Sportscar Championship and RX7s has nothing to do with it.
To Formula One Spy - Also, I respect your comments and your right to have your say. People will be talking about the 787B Le Mans car for many years to come (a healthy debate). It has and will continue to be another piece of racing history. Ironically, the FIA made it more famous than it ever may have been by changing the rules.
@emgasu In motorsport context "ban" often echoes that something was forbidden because of competitive advantage. That wasn't the case. "Type X is banned" vs "only type Y allowed" - that is the difference. Every single Mazda team personel must have known that 91 was to become the last year of the original Group C regulations since it was a transitional year (Jaguar, Mercedes and Peugeot already raced cars built to the new regs). Initial talks of the new regs might have started already in 1989.
cont. The brakes are loud in this video (louder than the engine) probably because the brakes are transmitting resonance through the driveline of the car and into the frame, where the camera is mounted. I have a video of me driving a race car with inboard brakes which transmit the frequencies directly into the rollbar/tube frame which the camera is mounted on via the differential/transmission case, making the brakes quite loud on video, even if I could barely hear them while driving.
in one of the sport videos called havoc versions 1 , 2, or 3 can't remember exactly it had a shot of a le mans car coming into indianapolis and shifting out of 5 th into second instead of fourth needless to say it was the end of his race.
Those are the good old days when there's no chicane on the back straight. And Mazda did a good job on winning the Leman in front of the once all mighty Mercedes Benz C12? or C9?
@mulsannemike Lets be honest is there really a difference between legislated uncompetitive and being banned. Its the same as being fired and being asked to leave your job. The Mazda 4Rotor couldn't compete in 1992 and when it was allowed back it was only allowed to compete providing it could suck through a straw and had the VIT removed (Which was banned - pretty sure no other cars ran VIT) Which was why Mazda pulled the plug on the factory backed team.
@FormulaOneSpy - Good comment and point taken. I think Rotor Heads like myself are pretty passionate bunch and we may be blowing the whole thing out of proportion after reading your comment. LOL!
@Bongwater123 The question should be "why only 3.5L NA engines were allowed from 1992 onwards?" (I believe originally from 1991 onwards, but it was delayed). Answer it was just concept change and it could have worked but now we know it didn't and it almost solely caused the downfall of World Sportscar Championship. But the rule change had nothing to do with specifically Mazda nor rotary engines.
@FormulaOneSpy theres a simple explanation for Mazda never winning any other major championship. To start the 787B was band from LeMans, and secondly not all Mazda's run the 4 rotor engine they usually have the three rotor (RX7FD). As far as i know those 3 rotor RX7's kick as much ass as the 787B did in nowdays. There is the probability that the only reason stopping Mazda from converting the 3 rotor RX7's to 4 rotor RX7's is that the 4 rotor was banned not rotarys themselves but just the 4 rotor
@propliner You say it was the fastest reliable car.Thats exactly why it won because it could finish a race. The V8 Turbo Mercedes blew their engines and had mechanical issues and the win was Mazdas. Jaguar couldn't match the pace of the #55 car and were 2 laps down. Sure the #55 works Mazdaspeed team had great talent behind the wheel but car #18 the MazdaSpeed/Oreca (Yes team Oreca) finished 6th and the other MazdaSpeed/Oreca #56 finshed 8th So it wasn't a fluke. Mercedes had Michael Schumacher
@mulsannemike They sure are except with banned Varible intake system (For fuel Economy) and also have to run an air restrictor of approx 2 inches in diameter making them pretty much uncompetitive. The FIA can't be seen to ban an engine so they come up with equivalence factors. Like making a 13B (654cc x 2=1308cc) a 2.6l. Or they make an engine suck air through a straw like they do now
If you wanna feel this car, buy it on the game Gran Turismo 4 (playstation 2) and buy it! it's cheap, only 3.500.000 (3 millions and a half) I have one with 905hp (it's tunned) this car (in the game) has a superb time wear...u don't need many pit spots during a race. Remember: IN THE GAME.
@BruteCommando lol.. like the 2010 race schumi got a small ban for running a guy completely off the track.. and it couldnt of been more clear.. infact had the pit wall been a bit longer the guy would of crashed at top speed. i dont think he gets that now he isnt the big number one he cant get away with that kinda bs without punishment..
as for the car being banned for being "unfair" to the competition. That's ridiculous, it one one friggin race while other manufacturers such as Porsche dominated the 80s, wouldn't that be a considered "unfair?"
So who's the lucky chap driving it? The only disadvantages i can think of the rotary engines is that they are very poor on emissions and use a lot of fuel, I dont think it should of been banned in 1991 due to a lower weight compared to the other cars, its disadvantage of using more fuel, and probably a couple more pitstops should of made it ok to continue fairly :(
Don't forget, in racing applications Rotaries are renowned for their reliability. It is amazing how reliable they can be when you look after them. Mazda Rotaries, other than Honda, have finished more than any other car over the years they raced at Le Mans 24h. Honda may have a better finish average, however they only raced there once so you can't really find a true trend.
Wish I could even sit in one of those someday..
One of the best sounding engines ever by a rotary and fair play to mazada for making it work and keeping it going in the RX8
Hearing the brakes is a special benefit in this video. You know just what is happening.
Well, 10000rpm's must account for something, that's the F1 sound everybody hears.
The most beatiful sound ever in racing history.
Excellent vid indeed - always wanted to see some in-car footage of these awesome beasts :-)
that peugeot at the end was classic. the sound of the 787b was godly down the straights. it's right up there, in my book of the greatest sounding car engines, at le mans, of all time.
Many thanks, great footage.
sounds simply amazing!!!!
David Kennedy, Stefan Johansson or Maurizio Sandro Sala. By the way they were not banned as such from competing - the world sportscar racing rules simply outlawed anything that didn't use a 3.5L F1 engine. It was a change which had been on the cards since 1988, sadly :(
Sounds so COOL!
love it thanks!
this is great, ive dun this circuit about a thousand times in the 787B in GT4, its great watching a real life replay
one of only a few videos where the full potential is shown! the 787b is driven in many other vids, but not very hard
if only it was the fastest group c
Xerro No Vatimo the fastest group c car was the Sauber C9 and C11
The difference in commitment compared to when Johnny Herbert was reunited with his famous 787B in 1991 is obvious. There is no substitute for the "white heat" of the race!
which is why they are the best engines to ever live.
Have to agree,was at every lemans from 1985 to 2003,the 4-rotor was just painfully loud,with the previous 3-rotor your ears bled(almost),Porsche=purred,Mercedes=rumbled,Jaguar=wailed,Mazda 4R=screamed,Mazda 3R=torture
That sound is Godliness
that thing sounds awsome
Great Engine, 4 rotors, 2.6L, with a power of 700 bhp at 9000 rpm, vs Honda F1, 3.5L v12, 800Bhp at 14000 rpm.
This is an AMAZING engine!
heroic!
@OfficialNonsense There were 3 x #55, #56 (Renown - Orange/Green) and #18 (Mazda - White / Blue)
Am I the only one who thinks that the "4 rotor" sounds like a manlier F1 engine? I just love it!!
@FormulaOneSpy it is true that rotary engines werent banned. but it's true that the 4 rotor engine was banned due to "unfair advantage".
yes, before the 1990 race. thusly they were used for the 1990 race.
saying otherwise would imply they came out after the 1990 race in time for the 1991 race.
The "low for a rotary" rev limit of around 9000 rpm during the race apparently was so the car would keep to the fuel consumption formula that was in force at the time. It was also mentioned that if they let it rev to around 10,500ish (which engineers apparently said is no problem) power would have jumped from 700hp to around 900hp. Don't flame me for this, I am just passing on what I read in an article about the 787B once!
the chicanes were introduced before the 1990 race.
There were two 787s at Le Mans in 1991 - the white #18, and the famed orange and green #55, which won overall. The #18 is the one shown in the vid.
I know it's an old comment but just to be factual, there were 3 Mazdas in the race, two 787b's (The winning number 55 Renown car and the 6th Place white no.18) and a single standard 787 no.56 which finished 8th. They also brought a standard 787 T car which wasn't used.
@gasteinerboy no its a manual gearbox with clutch
@keeevan Brakes period make sound. Brakes produce different resonate frequencies based on the size/material of the components and heat. Sometimes these frequencies are audible to humans. Car companies do a lot of work on component sizing to eliminate squeak under normal driving conditions. Road car brakes frequently squeak when they get hot.
Sometimes brakes make audible sound when they're hot, sometimes when they're cold. It just depends on the materials and the conditions.
@mee198205 US IMSA Series - They dominated the GTO class. The RX-7 has won more IMSA races than any other car model. Also won the ATCC (Australian Touring Car Championship) in 1984. Banned in '85
Yes, did some researches. you are corrected. sorry about the comment above
Here's the thing Maxilicious, in 91 Le Mans cars ran to a fuel consumption formula. The superior fuel economy of the 787B compared to the Jag and Merc etc with 7.4L engines, allowed Mazda to run the car flat out for the full 24 hours. The Jags in particular had to back right off so they didn't run out of their allocated fuel stock. Yes, they suck fuel for their capacity, but are not as bad when comparing it to performance. The Mazda was 1000kg like all the other cars (Jag/Merc etc.).
@sidodorifto (FormulaOneSpy is my other account) Maybe I could have been clearer but obviously I was only talking about the World Sportscar Championship and RX7s has nothing to do with it.
@FormulaOneSpy
if you look closely at most motorsports, they are outright outlawed specifically including le mans.
Yea, they squeak a lot when not in the proper temperature, which is super hot.
To Formula One Spy - Also, I respect your comments and your right to have your say. People will be talking about the 787B Le Mans car for many years to come (a healthy debate). It has and will continue to be another piece of racing history. Ironically, the FIA made it more famous than it ever may have been by changing the rules.
too much power in one video :)
@emgasu In motorsport context "ban" often echoes that something was forbidden because of competitive advantage. That wasn't the case. "Type X is banned" vs "only type Y allowed" - that is the difference.
Every single Mazda team personel must have known that 91 was to become the last year of the original Group C regulations since it was a transitional year (Jaguar, Mercedes and Peugeot already raced cars built to the new regs). Initial talks of the new regs might have started already in 1989.
cont. The brakes are loud in this video (louder than the engine) probably because the brakes are transmitting resonance through the driveline of the car and into the frame, where the camera is mounted.
I have a video of me driving a race car with inboard brakes which transmit the frequencies directly into the rollbar/tube frame which the camera is mounted on via the differential/transmission case, making the brakes quite loud on video, even if I could barely hear them while driving.
Simply an astonishing sound. 4-rotor N/A engine is sex to the ears.
The first Japaneese manufacturer AND the the first wankel engined car to ever win LeMans. Pure greatness.
Rotary engines haven't been banned, they are eligible under current LMP regulations.
in one of the sport videos called havoc versions 1 , 2, or 3
can't remember exactly it had a shot of a le mans car coming into indianapolis and shifting out of 5 th into second instead
of fourth needless to say it was the end of his race.
Those are the good old days when there's no chicane on the back straight. And Mazda did a good job on winning the Leman in front of the once all mighty Mercedes Benz C12? or C9?
@RotorRian
Point wasn't whether or not they were legislated uncompetitive, point was to counter the complete myth they were banned; they were not.
the brakes are louder than my mam's car! lol what a car the 787B was!
It was the unfair power to weight ration offered by the rotary engine. Rotary engines are small, but can offer some crazy power.
@mulsannemike Lets be honest is there really a difference between legislated uncompetitive and being banned. Its the same as being fired and being asked to leave your job.
The Mazda 4Rotor couldn't compete in 1992 and when it was allowed back it was only allowed to compete providing it could suck through a straw and had the VIT removed (Which was banned - pretty sure no other cars ran VIT) Which was why Mazda pulled the plug on the factory backed team.
@FormulaOneSpy - Good comment and point taken.
I think Rotor Heads like myself are pretty passionate bunch and we may be blowing the whole thing out of proportion after reading your comment. LOL!
1969 R-100 won grand prix of singapore
1992 and 93 rx7 won 12 hour bathurst and there is more just cant remember
It a shame they banned it. It was one of the fastest le mans in history
The big monster of Wankel engine. 4 big rotors. Winner of Le Mans 91,
@TestECull I oil my brakes sometimes. But I keep it in a bottle that feeds it to the brake calipers in a tube. Am I doing it wrong? :P
me too!
@eclipse3248,
Rotary's not banned from ALMS,just not viable with current airrestrictors. Rotary would look like a slow engine then.
(shame)
If you also put WD-40 on your brakes when the car is sitting around for a while you can prevent rust so they brake better when you next drive. :D
The whiper looks like its hanging on for dear life LOL!
Overtakes other cars like pedestrians WoW
@keeevan
And his wipers need anti-coolant for automatic transmissions....
@Bongwater123 The question should be "why only 3.5L NA engines were allowed from 1992 onwards?" (I believe originally from 1991 onwards, but it was delayed). Answer it was just concept change and it could have worked but now we know it didn't and it almost solely caused the downfall of World Sportscar Championship. But the rule change had nothing to do with specifically Mazda nor rotary engines.
shit! that overtake at 0:50
squeaky brakes lol love th car tho ;)
@FormulaOneSpy theres a simple explanation for Mazda never winning any other major championship. To start the 787B was band from LeMans, and secondly not all Mazda's run the 4 rotor engine they usually have the three rotor (RX7FD). As far as i know those 3 rotor RX7's kick as much ass as the 787B did in nowdays. There is the probability that the only reason stopping Mazda from converting the 3 rotor RX7's to 4 rotor RX7's is that the 4 rotor was banned not rotarys themselves but just the 4 rotor
Sounds exactly like the 787b Listen to the 20b 3rotor, it sounds nothing like a 4rotor
@FormulaOneSpy not sure but didn't Mazda win do to Mercedes fuel or oil pump ?
idk maybe yes
They were banned from Group C following the introduction of the 3.5 regs which heavely favored the Formula 1 based 3.5 litre V10s.
@propliner You say it was the fastest reliable car.Thats exactly why it won because it could finish a race. The V8 Turbo Mercedes blew their engines and had mechanical issues and the win was Mazdas. Jaguar couldn't match the pace of the #55 car and were 2 laps down. Sure the #55 works Mazdaspeed team had great talent behind the wheel but car #18 the MazdaSpeed/Oreca (Yes team Oreca) finished 6th and the other MazdaSpeed/Oreca #56 finshed 8th
So it wasn't a fluke. Mercedes had Michael Schumacher
Was there a turbo? Sounds like it may be a wastegate/blowoff valve.
is that the squeking of the brakes?
@mulsannemike They sure are except with banned Varible intake system (For fuel Economy) and also have to run an air restrictor of approx 2 inches in diameter making them pretty much uncompetitive.
The FIA can't be seen to ban an engine so they come up with equivalence factors. Like making a 13B (654cc x 2=1308cc) a 2.6l. Or they make an engine suck air through a straw like they do now
@ 2:46...was that Nissan's R390-LM he flew past??
....You don't oil your breaks. Doing so defeats the purpose entirely.
They're just cold, is all.
it was on 1989, the tech was not so advanced.
And the gearbox is also very long, due the high speed that they ca reach
The sound of it at redline sounds like an F-1 car...9000rpm during that race but it can peg 10, 500rpm...wonder what it sounds like up there!!!
If you wanna feel this car, buy it on the game Gran Turismo 4 (playstation 2) and buy it! it's cheap, only 3.500.000 (3 millions and a half) I have one with 905hp (it's tunned) this car (in the game) has a superb time wear...u don't need many pit spots during a race.
Remember: IN THE GAME.
The RX-8 *Renesis* (and all other Wankel Rotary) /is/ an Otto-cycle engine per-se :)
I've always wondered why the upshifts and downshifts on this car are so slow.
Dillon Denton because is not a straight cut gearbox
@xcruzrr6,
Nope,787B=4 rotor 700hp
u kno they banned rotorys in alms, but rx8 running 2 rotor in 24 hours series
8000rpm, with 9000rpm only needed "for emergencies". IOW he is shifting it at 8000rpm unless he needs to make up time.
superbe voiture superbe mécanique . Mais quelqu'un peut-il me dire qu'est donc devenu cette voiture , merci beaucoups
its unfair that rotary rengine was banned from le mans. it was interesting to see rotary engines vs diesel engines
There's nothing like Le Mans! Too bad this car was banned. :-\
Check out my compilation video of the mazda 787B and the 767B ! Ultimate Car Compilations
UCC Ultimate Car Compilations how about no
***** How about okay !
The brakes need oil ...LOL
Only if they put a 4rotary in a production car...
not 787B
Car number56 91model 787
driver takashi yorino
@FormulaOneSpy you forget the 100 victories by the rx7....so your incorrect in saying that mazda never won any other race besides Le Mans
@BruteCommando lol.. like the 2010 race schumi got a small ban for running a guy completely off the track.. and it couldnt of been more clear.. infact had the pit wall been a bit longer the guy would of crashed at top speed. i dont think he gets that now he isnt the big number one he cant get away with that kinda bs without punishment..
i can't understand what's the screeching sound... maybe the brakes?
as for the car being banned for being "unfair" to the competition. That's ridiculous, it one one friggin race while other manufacturers such as Porsche dominated the 80s, wouldn't that be a considered "unfair?"
i think they are running 3rotors
Watch a visor
am i wrong? but i think that the brakes are missing some oil
Nope thats deffinately the rotary of a 787
So who's the lucky chap driving it? The only disadvantages i can think of the rotary engines is that they are very poor on emissions and use a lot of fuel, I dont think it should of been banned in 1991 due to a lower weight compared to the other cars, its disadvantage of using more fuel, and probably a couple more pitstops should of made it ok to continue fairly :(
187? b
*won...not one, doh!
Racing brakes are loud.