"You know, these media extenders are quite similar to the ones they have at the local Best Buy" "Hohoho, no! Patented Niveus Edges, old family recipe!" "For media extenders?" "Yes!" "Yes, and you call them cooled media extenders, despite the fact they are obviously Xbox 360s?"
@@vcpradoThis happens a lot, not just when Techmoan covers something. Even the Sony FW900 monitor jumped in price after Linus Tech Tips covered it and it was already expensive.
I love the rebuild you did here - despite any historical value it might have had, the original workmanship was _so_ terrible that it really is justified. Especially that PSU... argh. That genuinely could have killed someone at some point. One recommendation I would have, though, is that you make a sticker with a short summary of what you did and stick it to something that's not likely to be replaced later. One of the two huge heatsinks, maybe. That way there's evidence of what it went through, and someone 30 years down the line doesn't open it up and conclude that the company must have done a second version to fix a bunch of problems with the first.
Massive thumbs up for the Western Union splice. I was taught how to do these about 25 years ago in an electronics class I took in high school. It was more like a shop class than a technology class with more emphasis on assembly than on theory. Anyway I use a Western Union splice almost every time I need to splice wires. It's obviously not always possible or practical, but having a solid, neat physical connection before you solder is always a plus. I don't know that I've ever seen another youtuber mention them before. Five points.
It's a recommended practice in automotive wire splicing, as soldering wires makes the connection brittle in vibration heavy environments, leading to higher resistances over time due to fatigue. Using a Western Union splice keeps the wires malleable enough to let them move under vibration load. So the best practice for wire splicing is to Western Union splice them and then cover the splice with heat shrink or fabric tape -- a lot of factory splices are done this way.
@@Stoney3K Thanks Stoney. I remember my teacher demonstrating that the splice got stronger under tension even without solder. Being the belt and suspenders type I've always soldered it anyways but may have been giving myself a metaphorical wedgie :P.
it's the recommended splice technique here in south America, where our power cables inside our homes have strands, and are not solid core. please use it!
Gravis in previous videos: "I like to be nice to bad devices because their creators may be watching" Gravis on the Niveous: "I've heard from multiple employees. This thing is bad, the company was incompetent, and it kicks puppies while stroking its twirly old timey mustache"
@@Code7Unltd Thankfully I got out of that ordeal with my soul mostly intact, 80k worthless shares of Niveus stock and a job offer from DeviantArt which I happily accepted.
awesome! glad you chose to do the mod instead of caring about the questionable historical significance, this really went from "huh, cool." to "huh! cool!"
You retained anything of significance in the Edge, and actually validated it as a product more than anything, so I'd say that's a job well done! Another great vid
moderately interesting fact about the "to play this disc, put it in an Xbox 360 console" screen: that's actually a custom dvd menu that got put on all xbox 360 game discs to (i guess?) defend against someone putting it in the wrong device by mistake.
Yeah, that suggested to me that the drive probably would’ve played regular DVDs; just had no authorisation for Xbox 360 games. (I have not looked into this keying mechanism.)
Also, Xbox 360 discs are dual layer DVD's, 7.5gb, and the DVD video is on the inner region of the first layer so that any/all DVD players will see the "this is Xbox 360" message. Original Xbox games are single layer DVD, 4.7gb, so it was likely done to make sure people know"Xbox at home is not Xbox 360"
Same with many dreamcast and a lot of other gane systems. I remember a lot of Dreamcast games had track 1 as a redbook audio track that said something about it being for use only in the Dreamcast.
Custom passively cooled cases for game consoles seems like a grand idea for a business. Especially since you can add probably a 20 dollar led strip and sell it for an additional 200 bucks.
It might be hard to sell them for $1500 with no media drive bay though. It takes rich audiophile money (and lack of sense) to make that work as a business. And even then, as niveus proved, that still isn't even enough.
It does seem like a good hobbyist operation. I’ve never done anything quite like this, and I don’t have the requisite parts to start, but I genuinely think this could be a viable business.
Maybe, but I think someone on the last video mentioned that you can't access DVDs from the Media Center menu, so they would have had to boot it into the main menu.
55:52 - I'd left a comment on the live stream but you were just finishing up when you'd mentioned doing this. Loctite doesn't cure without pressure on it; literally put a dab on your desk and set even a toothpick on it, all the exposed to air no pressure material will stay liquid, but where that toothpick is will setup and turn solid. You need to back all your thumbscrews off and get the loctite under the fastener, at the contact point so it is compressed when you tighten it. A lot of people miss this as this usually done at the thread surface when you put it on or in the threads of a fastener; and in that you might aswell just put it on the threads, but I'm quite confident that's why it never setup for you.
absilutely hated running into entire pcs red loctited every single nut and screw and the screw head... dabbed it then tightened it down. i bet some used every bit of that 80-100lb rating. and only lets go at nearly solder melting temps.
"its only another hour out of your day, no big deal" sir you dont know how big of a deal it is. Im a remote artist, your stuff keeps me sane during the work day.
I've never noticed before, but I recently discovered that "Right angle" "Left angle" "Up angle" and "Down angle" seem to be somewhat standardized terms for cable ends and adapters now. Really helps when trying to find the right ends for good cable management.
Yeah I'm realizing this now - it's really funny because it's, you know, _wrong_, right angle doesn't mean "it comes out the right side", but who can complain when it's a huge improvement? Once you know the terminology you can find whatever you need.
@@CathodeRayDude yeah, it seems to be pretty universal that "right angle" means whichever 90° connection is standard for that type of cable - for example a "right angle" sata cable goes down - and then "left angle" is used to refer to a cable that goes the opposite way (and i guess that by extension, up/down are used for the other two angles)
You did good, and it was incredibly satisfying to see that thing play games. It's now way, way more useful than it was stock and it retains everything that made it special.
Unhinged consoles are becoming my new favorite genre. So far I know of the Panasonic Q, the Visteon GBA/DVD, and lmagin's dental equipment that repurposed the Atari Jaguar's shell mold.
Thread lockers are designed to set only when not exposed to air, like when trapped in threads. We used to use nail polish as it is nasty stuff, hardens well and is used to make it clear if someone has messed with things. Nice job though.
It sounds like something a member of the British royal family would apologise for. "I would like to express my sincere regret for that particular... imprecision with a stripper."
So about the HD-DVD player. The HD-DVD keys it needs to download are on a dashboard update that was included on a disc with the drive. Good luck finding one of those. You can get the same effect by updating the console normally (I have a 360 with a working HD-DVD drive) but blade xbox. The dashbaord update disc for the HD-DVD player actually *is* a later blade version so there's that I guess.
If you ever do decide to re-route that power light wire, you should consider wiring it to the original LED rather than the solid 3.3v since you fixed the drive door sensor issue. Small improvement being the light will blink when it boots, but also the wire would be a lot shorter
I'd like to do that, but the question is whether it runs off the right voltage. This might be why Niveus did it the way they did; for this era of LED, those are *probably* "normal" green diodes which run on less voltage/current, so the supply may not be enough to light up the blue one in the switch.
@@CathodeRayDude For that to be a valid concern, it would mean they're overdriving the blue LED in the power switch directly from the 3.3V rail. Chances are the original power LED is driven from a 5V rail via a resistor, and a blue LED could be directly substituted for it with no ill effects. Heck, even if the original is driven from 3.3V via a resistor, blue LEDs are so insanely efficient that the half a milliamp or so it can get through the original resistor would still be plenty.
My favorite difference between Sony and Xbox consoles is how much easier it is to softmod PlayStations. I hacked my PSP, PS3, and PS4 within a few hours, I have never been patient enough mod any of my Xboxes (especially since my OG has a broken DVD drive). It's basically a selling point of the brand for me now, since doing anything on a less than perfect Xbox is a pain.
Yea very true, I spend 2 days on hacking my XBOX 360 and still failed, i need to give it to a guy that has the better flasher as the Pico one just fails for no reason. No problems with PS's at all, even when both of my USB ports are dead af on my fat PS3.
Microsoft makes operating systems that have to deal with all sorts of malware, so they already know how to lock shit down. Same thing for Apple. The only difference between a PC and an Xbox (or a Mac and an iPhone) is how much the user is considered to be part of the threat model. Sony on the other hand is a hardware vendor and a lifestyle brand. So they have no clue how to use cryptography effectively, how to write secure code, or even how to ensure upstream security fixes make their way into the downstream console's OS. Sony consoles will always be hackable. Nintendo is in a weird spot where they used to be as incompetent as Sony, but massively upped their game with the Switch. It's not quite as locked-down as the 360, thanks to Nvidia screwing the pooch, but the online services for the Switch are just as easy to get banned from for doing anything untoward them as Xbox Live is.
Throwing a bunch of metal at the problem is an effective way to achieve sufficient cooling It's a very heavy and expensive way to do it, but it does work
@@pocketpc_ true. And heat pipes are efficient enough to move it to the heatsinks even with all the less than optimal metal to metal interfaces in those stacks
Unlikely. According to Microsoft peak temperature has little todo with the RROD. The simple fact that the chip heats up the cools down constantly is enough to kill it. The actual temperature it reaches doesn't make much a difference.
18:27 Relatable. Next time some company is on a high horse about what a terrific steward of the environment they are, think of all those pristine optical drives full of rare earth metals crushed in a landfill.
The HD-DVD drives still work on any connected 360 and you can still use them to rip the discs. Understandably, that is missing the point of it working on the Edge. Still, it’s theoretically possible to run DVDs on it- resolving the whole dvd mistake. That being said, trying to play HD-DVDs these days outside of the ecosystem of 360s and dedicated players is borderline impossible- someone really should figure these things out for the sake of everyone’s sanity. Excellent work, as always.
It's a solved problem -- at least the movie itself. AnyDVD HD. Although, what you might be asking, and I don't know the answer to this, is if software exists to play the disc complete with menus and whatnot. I have boxes of Blu-rays and UH box of HD-DVDs, but I've never once played any of them from disc, so it's never occurred to me to look.
Jasper was quite literally the best 360 ever designed. It had the best cooling. It was the most efficient (in the fat models). They always stayed cooler than any model that came after them. I love them so much that when they introduced the slim, I snapped up every brand new Jasper I could afford at steep discounts to custom build. I still have three or four I bought new I also installed Zephyr copper heatsinks on mine so they would run even cooler. You picked absolutely the best generation to put in the system.
55:40 What you want is "Green wicking-grade threadlocker" . It is specifically made to be thin enough to 'wick' into pre-assembled fasteners unlike conventional threadlock, which is really only meant to be applied before assembly. Also another note, an exposed puddle of really any* theadlock will never set and cure. Threadlockers are typically anaerobic, meaning it will only cure in the absence of oxygen (like the assembled part), so the bubble of fluid on the top will never cure. That reason is why it's important to use a wicking-grade threadlocker, as it can actually seep into the assembled area and cure rather than sitting on the surface.
The HD DVD drive will work as an external HD DVD drive for PC’s and Mac’s. I use mine to rip HD DVD’s with MakeMKV. It also gives me an additional DVD drive if I’m ripping a TV show something.
@@ReetinEntertainment My local CEX (think gamestopish, pay 50p for your stack of dvds and old compact camera) has several HD DVDs on display currently.
The wireless signal is going through the fan openings and any gaps in the case. The M$ controller had a great range because they used proprietary wireless protocols in the 2.4GHz range. Automated digital RF channel hopping and signal strength that didn't have to fall in an IEEE spec. ;)
The reason for the rectangular cutout in the bottom is they re-used a part from something else. They were being yelled at daily by someone who'd spent a bunch of money and needed a solution. They used whatever they had to stuff a 360 into a case and get it working.
I don't really think the Xbox DID have any power management. most of these consoles did what the 3DS or so did, where the console just unloads the dashboard, or keeps a very small shim, and until you call the shim with the dashboard or mini UI, the game could take up 100% of the system resources, which were a hot commodity. and they didn't care what power management it took because it was only meant to be used occasionally for the most part. again I could be very wrong about the xbox, but that's why I believe it had zero power management. that could also add extra work on the devs i recon. the Xbox one instead runs everything inside a series of VMs running HyperV, which is why the PS4 is faster despite having about the same power under the hood, the xbox had a crap ton of overhead as VMs usually take up.
The VM situation on the Xbox makes me question how games even had good boot times back then considering every Xbox One shipped with a mechanical drive...
@@R4dm1nI mean, have you played a game on an xbox one recently? I wouldn't describe the boot times as "good". I remember that dragon age inquisition loaded faster on the 360 than it did on the xbone.
@@maliciousintruder3010 360 games on the Xbox One are different. Obviously it's emulating the 360 so you also have to wait for the ENTIRE Xbox 360 boot process as well... I meant more of NATIVE games, not emulated.
@@R4dm1n That's what I'm talking about. The xbox one version of dragon age inquisition loads slower than the xbox 360 version, it's not backwards compatible.
@@maliciousintruder3010 tfw i was sleep deprived while replying so my first thought wasn't to Google the game's platforms still, that doesn't feel right
11:20 That’s interesting, the video clip saying to insert the game into an Xbox 360 is actually on a DVD video partition of the game disc (it plays when inserted into a DVD player or device that plays DVDs, say a competing console like a PS2/PS3) So since the DVD player feature still works after a drive swap, it prevents games from running, forwarding to the DVD player feature
I got a little busy yesterday, but I'm back to finish this video out. It's got to feel like a lot of pressure to work this kinda gig. You're obviously passionate and knowledgeable, so do it to enjoy it. I'm proud of you and your motivation. Go ahead and let those ideas flow brother!
It's absolutely amazing how _Microsoft_ made the Blades UI and then proceeded to make the UI progressively worse with every major update. Oh, and the Xbox HD-DVD isn't e-waste, it works fine as a USB-DVD with any computer.
ALSO, I appreciate it when you say you are unsure or do not know something! Gives folks something to think about, research, learn! You're a good man, Charlie Brown.
The DVD drive pairing is only actually necessary for playing games (executing code from disc). You can use the DVD video playback functionality of a donor drive just fine on a retail console - in fact, that "error" screen that comes up when trying to play a game with an unpaired drive is just that. A DVD video. Oversimplifying massively, Xbox discs have one small DVD partition with that video on, which was meant to show if a kid puts the game into a DVD player etc. The game itself is on a separate partition which is invisible to most DVD drives, because it's missing from the disc TOC (but the xbox knows it's there). So it might well be possible to add DVD playback support to these machines without much effort. I've not yet finished the video so if this is mentioned please disregard my comment! Edit: 2 minutes later, and yes, this is mostly mentioned in the video oops
They could have moved DVD drives between their consoles, that would allow dvd playback without allowing Xbox games to run, which would make that a much more valuable product
Just to point something out. The early model 360s like the Xenon would RROD over time no matter what. People blame it on the heat and poor heatsink + fans, which were a problem. But nowhere near a problem as people thought. The real problems were simply the solder alloy they used. It was prone to cracking and chemical issues over time. This is why DIY and repair shop reflows (be it toaster oven or a proper BGA rework station with "correct" heat profiles (I say correct like that because no correct one exists). Microsoft also appeared not to understand this for a while either (hence 2+ warranty claims (or even 5+ - I had three), hence the first hardware iteration still having issues (at a much reduced rate at least). And eventually what lead to class action lawsuits which made them increase the warranty, then in some places they just made the RROD warranty unlimited (well until console EOL). You could take a new old stock Xenon that had been sitting on a shelf for 12 years in a climate controlled warehouse, and chances are pretty high it'd RROD within a few hours. If it didn't RROD in a month that was/is still pretty much a miracle. I believe it was some sort of oxidation reaction going on. It was quite complex with potentially some sacrificial metal magic also acting to draw out certain elements from the solder (keep in mind this was back when companies were still getting to grips to switching to entirely lead free solder). Other factors were the way mounting pressure was applied causing warpage (though well within previously acceptable limits) and finally users not just running it hot, but living places with regular very cold ambient temps when the console was off - constant cycling between hot and cold increased the issue a lot (though again within normal values had the solder been fine). This info was from a MS internal report iirc, either leaked or maybe from discovery in court). Also something you might find very very interesting is that someone put a bunch of unused Xenon CPUs on eBay a few years back. Meaning CPUs with no blown efuses. The calls to blow fuses manually was also known back then. Meaning you could in theory grab one of these, and load it up with your own public keys, for the individual console key load up an old private + public key from a several year old console that hasn't been on live in so long (and has no suspicious live activity). Then you could resign the latest firmware, upgrade. Now you can jump online with an Xbox you truly own. Run anything you want. Modify anything you want. Make the incredibly well implemented hypervisor a bit more chill. Would be amazing to own one, especially with the 1GB mod (btw if you wanted it to be a dev kit just fire off the efuse. Just make sure you reball that CPU with better leaded solder first. I heard some later chips including the CPU + GPU one also ended up on eBay - my memory is fuzzy there though. Also one last thing to say about the 360 is the software implementation for preventing unauthorised code from running was just spectacularly fantastic. To put it in perspective, the 360's software pretty much remains unexploited to this day - there is one exception which is the KK exploit which cleverly used modified shaders to get unsigned code to run. But by the time that was public it was long patched. Since then no one has ever gotten past the software security, since the console can be thought of as a simplified virtual machine. Any type of system call from an executable? Well better check if the signed process executable was given that permission? Nope? Kill the entire process. Oh the games buffer overflowed? Who cares I didn't even notice, that'd be too much performance hit. Oh it overflowed into system memory? *loads shotgun*. Also makes it so games can only see their own files written to the HDD, like modern Android etc. It was amazing how well they learnt their lesson from the OG Xbox. Yeah they still messed up the DVD drive security implementation and the JTAG, but it was an insane improvement in one generation from the security mess the OG was. And as I mentioned the software hypervisor was and still is almost a perfect example of console software security.
This was a great memory unlock. I was building my first home theater when this was developing (I remember giving these Niveus beasts a crazy side eye.) I spent weeks trying to squeeze a good experience out of my WRT54G, bleeding-edge Vista-compatible extender, and eventually a transcoding server to optimize all my media because of codec (and RDP) issues like this video showed. Then I threw it in a box to rot because if I was transcoding everything anyway, the PS3 was equally picky but far more capable
Rad follow-up! If I were looking for a "better" place to stick the SSD, I'd probably have stuck it to the side of the power supply case, maybe with a long extension cord you could attach it to the top of the case too? But honestly props for securing it to anything at all, honestly. I'm certainly guilty of just letting an SSD dangle from a cable or two in a pinch.
I wonder if the main reason they didn't advertise it as being able to play Xbox 360 games was to avoid issues with Microsoft. That was around the time when modchips became popular and console manufacturers started cracking down on them, so a small company with five employees selling modified Xbox consoles might get the attention of Microsoft and potentially a cease and desist. Hiding any mention of the Xbox 360 from promotional material might have avoided their attention.
I think it helps, too, that that whole console generation had a rich modding tradition anyhow. Makes it less like you’re messing with something important and doing something very natural. Hell, a modded original Xbox was my introduction to emulators. That was years earlier.
A modded original Xbox is were i first seen blades dashboard (actually xbmc blades) and it also had emulators, used to play Destruction Derby 64 on it.
The DVD key situation isn’t actually that dire, because the drives themselves are not married- it’s a daughterboard, so as long as you have another drive of the same model, you *can* swap that daughterboard over (it’s just a ribbon cable) and it will work. Of course, wouldn’t help you in the Niveus situation since the drives are probably in a landfill somewhere.
Also if you wanna get that thing properly set up for mod usage and online play, Proto Stealth will stop you from getting banned on Live and even let you run the Blades dash to preserve that 2007 look. Hit me up on Cohost if you want more info about that :)
Yeah, I read that that was ostensibly possible... but then there's a ton of posts floating around from people saying they did it and it didn't work, and I *know* that makes no sense, but it suggests to me that maybe it's possible to screw up swapping the boards. So, while it *probably* never would have been an issue for me if I'd run into it - because I know to research something like that before attempting it, and because I have general electronics skills, etc. - it seems like for a lot of people it could still end with them $90 poorer and no closer to a functioning machine, you know what I mean?
@@CathodeRayDude yeah it’s definitely above what the average person will know how to parse and do, and admittedly I started working on these after they were thrift store fodder.
Fun how it was mentioned that the DVD key is on the motherboards NAND, yet continued to say "slurping keys from one drive and put them on another" as the only way. No drive is needed, slurp the DVDkey from the console's NAND and slap it on a drive. (step 1 of modding is to pull CPUkey and DVDkey to unlock the NAND. At that point you just restore to retail firmware and program the new drive)
About the locktite, it only cures in the absence of air so you either need to remove the nuts, apply it, and put them back or get an aerobic thread lock like VC-3.
The line "it doesn't tingle when you touch it on the outside" while you rubbing the box justifies everyone who watches this video giving you a like. Funny as hell.
Honestly, it just looks like a prototype to me. The kind of thing that exists in the world as proof of concept before the industrial design engineers get their turn to fight with accounting. I think the part where he talked about reaching a point where you just toss everything else in the box, sit on it, and tighten the screws because you are just _over it_ ... that's prescient here.
Nice work dude!... For basic Vibration locking of light/low-mass fasteners i personally find finger-nail-polish to work just fine - works nicely as a tamper indicator for fasteners and adjustments.
The key as to why your blue locktite did not cure is it requires isolation from the atmosphere. I believe it won't cure in the presence of oxygen if I recall correctly, but I may be mistaken on the component of the atmosphere it needs to be isolated from. Hence why it does the job of gluing fastener threads so well as the fact that it is trapped within the threads creates said isolation.
I'd probably use a dab of nail polish on the heatsink screws. It won't hold up to any real amount of torque, but it will keep them from wiggling loose. It should come off relatively easy if you need to, and since it's on metal, you could use acetone to clean it if you really needed to.
@@CathodeRayDude Adding to this, the reason the loctite didn't cure is because it requires the *absence* of oxygen to cure. It only goes off inside the threaded connection, and the bottles have special lids to ensure air circulation.
Damnit CRD I HAVE SHIT TO DO! I am going to have to turn off notifications because every damn time you upload I have to stop what I am doing, fix a snack, and sit down and watch your content immediately. How TF am I supposed to get anything accomplished in my life!?!?!
Niveus may have survived if they just pivoted to premium fanless gaming consoles and gaming desktops, when microsoft left media center oems on the street knew something looked off at the start of this video, almost expected “through the magic of buying two of them!”
Before watching these videos I didn't even know the 360 would boot without the DVD drive. I was thinking that console/drive lock prevented it from booting if the drive was missing on hardware check.
My mom bought an Xbox 360 for $20 bucks at a yard sale in 2016. The box was open but everything was still wrapped up. Having never had an Xbox before I knew nothing about the different firmwares. You bet I updated a complete in box blades Xbox, dumped the box and packaging, and played black ops with my buddy. Only recently learned of my mistake. It’s now my dvd player.
I don't know why people get all masturbatory about the blades firmware, it's not like it looks super cool or works better in any way. It's like pining for Windows 7 instead of Windows 11. It's not better, just different. And old.
@@theParticleGod Gonna disagree with that. Windows 7 was the last version of Windows, IMO. Windows 8 is what sent me to the Mac world. Blades is cool because an Xbox running Blades firmware is a living museum piece. It's like having a pet dinosaur. ANY Xbox can play games, but if you spent some formative years in Blades, and now all you have is those stupid tiles, there will be a part of you that remembers that stuff with fondness, and might want to go back and visit for a while.
@@nickwallette6201 I personally don't like the Zune vibes that the old firmware gives off, it's not that I wasn't exposed that firmware, I disliked the look of it from the beginning, with it's stupid background colors, illegible fonts and sideways labels. It's just meaningless to say that Windows 7 was the last version of Windows. It clearly wasn't, billions of other people have continued using it, sometimes with software that's decades old working flawlessly. You can say a lot of things about Windows, but it didn't magically transform into something else just because Microsoft scrambled the UI, much as Microsoft wished it would. The Windows 8 marketing fluff really seems to have worked on you.
1:03:25 - Apple's wasn't really a "streaming service" as such, it was an "online purchase/rental portal" - you still had to download the media to watch it. It wasn't until a few years later (and the introduction of the ARM-powered smaller AppleTV over the first-gen Intel-powered larger one) that you could directly stream, but it was still a per-movie/show purchase or rental, not what we would consider "streaming" now with a single monthly cost to watch whatever you want. (That wouldn't come around for Apple until just a couple years ago with Apple TV+ in late 2019.)
@@ProtoMan0451 What makes that different from any other fact correction? Is it just the sheer mention of Apple that makes it distasteful to you? I bought a Gen 1 Apple TV as an experiment for streaming my personal music/video library, and the OP here brought back a long lost memory of the one or two times I used it to rent a movie, before deciding I might want to try converting it to an XBMC box instead. So "ERM ACKSHUALLY" thanks for the well-detailed post.
The little Knipex Cobra adjustable pipe wrenches are perfect for doing big panel mount rings and all sorts of crap that defies regular wrenches. Of course the problem with the 4 inch one is I lost it. RIP to my best pliers. Long live the 5 inch one with its hi-vis red handles and all around grabbable bulk. 5 stars.
Was there anything out of the ordinary that you learned from the second former niveus employee about the company's operation was it pretty much just more of what you expected
Yeah basically just confirmation of everything and more elaboration that I felt was not contributory to the video; I've dunked on this company from a distance for two videos, I wanted this one to mostly be about what I did instead of what they did.
I think the edge doesn't function as a Faraday cage because only the top has holes at all and they're probably not the right size and distance to block the necessary wavelengths IIRC, a grounded sheet of solid aluminum may slightly impede radio waves, but it's the holes that cause them to scatter and function as a proper cage
@@CathodeRayDude afaik, yeah, but I'm just vaguely recalling some science demonstrations from ages ago, hardly an expert, worth looking up if you got the time, I gotta pick some veggies ATM 🤷
@@CathodeRayDude well I finished picking greens and went and looked it up and I think my understanding was wrong, but I think I also found the reason for your controller working all in the last two lines of Wikipedia's summary 🙃 "Near-field, high-powered frequency transmissions like HF RFID are more likely to penetrate. Solid cages generally attenuate fields over a broader range of frequencies than mesh cages." So it seems a solid cage should be _more_ effective as you'd surmised, but I think the Xbox controller probably qualifies as a "near-field, high-powered frequency" more likely to penetrate 🤔
Faraday cages are also much less effective in practice than in theory, at least at the microwave frequencies that modern digital electronics use. At my former workplace, my colleagues wanted to make a lab to do WiFi experiments in a controlled, otherwise radio-silent environment. They tried Faraday cages, but nothing worked, the devices were still getting signals from the rest of the office. In the end they had to put that whole lab in the basement. I also listened to a talk at a conference where radio engineers described an RF testing setup they built, and they had similar conclusions - if you need to block microwave RF at any meaningful level, you need specialized shielding that goes for hundreds if not thousands of dollars. No domestic casing is gonna cut it. It might lower the signal level by a couple dB, but nothing that will stop the thing from working.
@@kFY514You might be surprised at the effectiveness of Faraday cages, if the hole sizing is correct. I mean look at the door of your ~1kW microwave oven. Almost identical frequency as Bluetooth and 2.4GHz WiFi.
the key can be pulled from motherboard for dvd drive then use the usual dvd firmware hacking tools to write key\firm. The HD-dvd drive update an be applied by disc or usb as well just like the old xbox compatibility disc update does.
1:00:00 You're missing a VERY obvious place to stick that drive. Stick it to the side of the power supply with some of the Gorilla tape. You have a huge flat spot right there.
It doesn't fit as well as it looks, trust me. I could use an extension but then I'd have a bunch of extra miserable cable mess torquing the drive connector, which *really* wants to pop out of the board as it is.
This reminded me of when I modded my original Xbox in 2019. Took it from stock to softmodded with a new(ish) bigger HDD and a tube-sleeved IDE cable. I ended up having to cut chunks out of the HDD caddy to even get the thing to route all the way over to the drive, but I managed it. So, I guess it's technically a hardmod in this instance. I also had to twist the cable something fierce to get it to route into the DVD drive's slot. That's one of the main benefits of using a tube-style one, since they take bends much better. In any case, when you spend enough time taking care of and modifying the internals of these things, you really do become attached to them. I can tell that happened to you as well.
Not only did he spend time and effort preserving a blades dash mobo, he made this big heatsink box thing disguised as a media center run games again. I'm speechless, that's why I like this channel.
29:06 Nice pun :) 55:53 Not superglue... how about hot glue? 1:01:20 I feel like they knew they were, yet felt that, because of the lack of a Vista Media Center Extender, they had no choice, so did what they could to make it Just Barely Work (tm) and shipped it out to customers, expecting it to fail, by which point a proper device would exist, so that they could say "oh, just send back the Edge and we'll replace it with The Proper Solution". Just my $0.02
Simply amazing also, if you have one of those windows remote receivers and remote, you can use the remote with the xbox 360 to have the media center experience with it and amazing video and gotta watch your other edge related content.
The 360's had a multimedia update for blade that if you got it would let you play more dvds and such and that is the thing it probably needs to download.
Blade OS was so damn good, super snappy, clean and good-looking with far lower latency than every other Xbox OS iteration that came after, it got to the point that the Xbox On shipped with a dog slow front end that was so laggy, Blade OS was developed by the MS guys that actually knew how t make a decent OS GUI, MS fired them all I believe, which might explain the Metro GUI & Windows 8.
To me Blades Dash was a thing of the first O.G XBOX, but thats why the first time I've seen it was on a modded XBMC XBOX. But even there it feels nice and nostalgic.
one of my fav channels,every now and then i have too binge. your an invaluable source of information and familiarity when it comes too old tech. i appreciate what you do,keep it up bro bro.
I guess we could retcon iTunes on Apple TV as being a streaming service, but back then it would have been considered video on demand. Pedantic, yes, but I only mentioned it because I was thoroughly confused when you said this, since Apple's first true streaming service was Apple+. But now every platform calls itself a streaming platform, whether the content is free, ad supported, subscription, channel based, or rental/purchase based. Even movies anywhere more or less describes itself as a streaming platform, despite the fact you have to buy or rent anything you want to watch, last I checked. Granted, it is all streamed, unlike the very earliest days of pay per view which I think were still technically analog, so it's not incorrect, but one can understand why I took a double take and had to ask the internet a few things after hearing you say that.
Near the end of the video I started thinking "This has got to have spiked the price of Niveus Edges on ebay". The only listing is an empty Edge case (some wires, no heat pipes, unclear if the top is present) for 750$
![Uncovering a Cancelled 90s "Metaverse" [Cyberpark]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6q6SXzmcqPY/mqdefault.jpg)
"Well, Niveus, you're an odd fellow, but I must say - you cool a good media extender."
You extend a good media.
"Seymour! The house is... not on fire, actually, thanks to this lovely cooling system."
"You know, these media extenders are quite similar to the ones they have at the local Best Buy"
"Hohoho, no! Patented Niveus Edges, old family recipe!"
"For media extenders?"
"Yes!"
"Yes, and you call them cooled media extenders, despite the fact they are obviously Xbox 360s?"
The hams were steamed: ruclips.net/video/bW2fCf7QZWo/видео.html
The resell value of the edge suddenly went from nearly zero to $750
Wow, had to check and yeah, this isn't even a joke.
I see that you found the same ebay offer I did.
@@xarin42 and it doesn't even have the heat pipes or the cover!
The Techmoan Effect
@@vcpradoThis happens a lot, not just when Techmoan covers something. Even the Sony FW900 monitor jumped in price after Linus Tech Tips covered it and it was already expensive.
I think we should call playing video games on the Edge "Edging." I'm going to go Edge with my friends.
as long as you don't dock with Edge so you're edging in the dock.
People will think you and your friends are more than friends.
I'd refrain or rethink after reading the Urban Dictionary definition of that word.
Can't edge without blades, this makes sense.
How about we don't do that.
I love the rebuild you did here - despite any historical value it might have had, the original workmanship was _so_ terrible that it really is justified. Especially that PSU... argh. That genuinely could have killed someone at some point.
One recommendation I would have, though, is that you make a sticker with a short summary of what you did and stick it to something that's not likely to be replaced later. One of the two huge heatsinks, maybe. That way there's evidence of what it went through, and someone 30 years down the line doesn't open it up and conclude that the company must have done a second version to fix a bunch of problems with the first.
Even just a CRD sticket would probably lead them in the right general direction, assuming RUclips doesn't end up purged from the internet.
Massive thumbs up for the Western Union splice. I was taught how to do these about 25 years ago in an electronics class I took in high school. It was more like a shop class than a technology class with more emphasis on assembly than on theory. Anyway I use a Western Union splice almost every time I need to splice wires. It's obviously not always possible or practical, but having a solid, neat physical connection before you solder is always a plus. I don't know that I've ever seen another youtuber mention them before. Five points.
It's a recommended practice in automotive wire splicing, as soldering wires makes the connection brittle in vibration heavy environments, leading to higher resistances over time due to fatigue. Using a Western Union splice keeps the wires malleable enough to let them move under vibration load. So the best practice for wire splicing is to Western Union splice them and then cover the splice with heat shrink or fabric tape -- a lot of factory splices are done this way.
@@Stoney3K Thanks Stoney. I remember my teacher demonstrating that the splice got stronger under tension even without solder. Being the belt and suspenders type I've always soldered it anyways but may have been giving myself a metaphorical wedgie :P.
I wasn’t taught that name, but that was also how I was told to splice wires in electrical engineering/product design class!
@@bluephreakr ah yes, that was the name I was given! 😊
it's the recommended splice technique here in south America, where our power cables inside our homes have strands, and are not solid core. please use it!
Gravis in previous videos: "I like to be nice to bad devices because their creators may be watching"
Gravis on the Niveous: "I've heard from multiple employees. This thing is bad, the company was incompetent, and it kicks puppies while stroking its twirly old timey mustache"
I TRIED MY BEST
Nintendo Homebrew member spotted
@@Code7Unltd Thankfully I got out of that ordeal with my soul mostly intact, 80k worthless shares of Niveus stock and a job offer from DeviantArt which I happily accepted.
@@gnomeddev two nintendo homebrew members spotted
Three Nintendo homebrew members and one point of sale member spotted
awesome! glad you chose to do the mod instead of caring about the questionable historical significance, this really went from "huh, cool." to "huh! cool!"
You retained anything of significance in the Edge, and actually validated it as a product more than anything, so I'd say that's a job well done! Another great vid
moderately interesting fact about the "to play this disc, put it in an Xbox 360 console" screen: that's actually a custom dvd menu that got put on all xbox 360 game discs to (i guess?) defend against someone putting it in the wrong device by mistake.
Yeah, that suggested to me that the drive probably would’ve played regular DVDs; just had no authorisation for Xbox 360 games. (I have not looked into this keying mechanism.)
I was going to say that but you beat me to it
Also, Xbox 360 discs are dual layer DVD's, 7.5gb, and the DVD video is on the inner region of the first layer so that any/all DVD players will see the "this is Xbox 360" message.
Original Xbox games are single layer DVD, 4.7gb, so it was likely done to make sure people know"Xbox at home is not Xbox 360"
@@imclearingit4149 very few xboxes could play dvd's as you needed to buy a special flash drive thing with a key in it
Same with many dreamcast and a lot of other gane systems. I remember a lot of Dreamcast games had track 1 as a redbook audio track that said something about it being for use only in the Dreamcast.
Custom passively cooled cases for game consoles seems like a grand idea for a business. Especially since you can add probably a 20 dollar led strip and sell it for an additional 200 bucks.
It might be hard to sell them for $1500 with no media drive bay though. It takes rich audiophile money (and lack of sense) to make that work as a business. And even then, as niveus proved, that still isn't even enough.
@@mukundamodell thats why you dont do exactly what niveous did, you do it better
It does seem like a good hobbyist operation. I’ve never done anything quite like this, and I don’t have the requisite parts to start, but I genuinely think this could be a viable business.
This is Josh from Infinitemodifications. Cool video and thanks for the praise and the Shout Out!!
So they could have shuffled all the dvd drives amongst Edges and no could play games and everyone could watch movies.
GOD I HADN'T THOUGHT ABOUT THAT BUT YOU'RE RIGHT. of course that means they didn't think of it either hahaha
@CathodeRayDude the original 360 disc drives was really loud. Weren't they trying to keep these silent?
That's pretty brilliant.
Maybe, but I think someone on the last video mentioned that you can't access DVDs from the Media Center menu, so they would have had to boot it into the main menu.
@@hellogoodbye4906are they still loud on DVD video playback speeds?
55:52 - I'd left a comment on the live stream but you were just finishing up when you'd mentioned doing this. Loctite doesn't cure without pressure on it; literally put a dab on your desk and set even a toothpick on it, all the exposed to air no pressure material will stay liquid, but where that toothpick is will setup and turn solid.
You need to back all your thumbscrews off and get the loctite under the fastener, at the contact point so it is compressed when you tighten it.
A lot of people miss this as this usually done at the thread surface when you put it on or in the threads of a fastener; and in that you might aswell just put it on the threads, but I'm quite confident that's why it never setup for you.
Commenting to bump this up and to add there is a wicking thread retainer for use on already installed fasteners.
absilutely hated running into entire pcs red loctited every single nut and screw and the screw head... dabbed it then tightened it down.
i bet some used every bit of that 80-100lb rating. and only lets go at nearly solder melting temps.
"its only another hour out of your day, no big deal" sir you dont know how big of a deal it is. Im a remote artist, your stuff keeps me sane during the work day.
Me here while my college is on strike, his vids are goated
I've never noticed before, but I recently discovered that "Right angle" "Left angle" "Up angle" and "Down angle" seem to be somewhat standardized terms for cable ends and adapters now. Really helps when trying to find the right ends for good cable management.
Yeah I'm realizing this now - it's really funny because it's, you know, _wrong_, right angle doesn't mean "it comes out the right side", but who can complain when it's a huge improvement? Once you know the terminology you can find whatever you need.
@@CathodeRayDude yeah, it seems to be pretty universal that "right angle" means whichever 90° connection is standard for that type of cable - for example a "right angle" sata cable goes down - and then "left angle" is used to refer to a cable that goes the opposite way (and i guess that by extension, up/down are used for the other two angles)
@@CathodeRayDude When in doubt, call StayOnline. They will make any oddball electrical cable you want.
You did good, and it was incredibly satisfying to see that thing play games. It's now way, way more useful than it was stock and it retains everything that made it special.
Unhinged consoles are becoming my new favorite genre. So far I know of the Panasonic Q, the Visteon GBA/DVD, and lmagin's dental equipment that repurposed the Atari Jaguar's shell mold.
When the message pops up telling you to insert the game into an Xbox 360, it’s actually reading the disc AS a DVD movie and playing a video file.
This is such a good video. One of your best
thank you so much! i was really happy with it!
Thread lockers are designed to set only when not exposed to air, like when trapped in threads. We used to use nail polish as it is nasty stuff, hardens well and is used to make it clear if someone has messed with things.
Nice job though.
If you want it to wick into the threads on something already fastened you need the green loctite
came by to say exactly this, thank you!
“That made up for my imprecision with a stripper” - CRD 2024
Lel
It sounds like something a member of the British royal family would apologise for.
"I would like to express my sincere regret for that particular... imprecision with a stripper."
@@liamr6088 ikr
The field of Industrial Archeology develops in new direction! Your contribution is appreciated.
So about the HD-DVD player. The HD-DVD keys it needs to download are on a dashboard update that was included on a disc with the drive. Good luck finding one of those. You can get the same effect by updating the console normally (I have a 360 with a working HD-DVD drive) but blade xbox. The dashbaord update disc for the HD-DVD player actually *is* a later blade version so there's that I guess.
Correct! IIRC the HD-DVD drive just needs 4532, while 4552 is the version that breaks the original exploit
If you ever do decide to re-route that power light wire, you should consider wiring it to the original LED rather than the solid 3.3v since you fixed the drive door sensor issue. Small improvement being the light will blink when it boots, but also the wire would be a lot shorter
I'd like to do that, but the question is whether it runs off the right voltage. This might be why Niveus did it the way they did; for this era of LED, those are *probably* "normal" green diodes which run on less voltage/current, so the supply may not be enough to light up the blue one in the switch.
@@CathodeRayDude For that to be a valid concern, it would mean they're overdriving the blue LED in the power switch directly from the 3.3V rail. Chances are the original power LED is driven from a 5V rail via a resistor, and a blue LED could be directly substituted for it with no ill effects. Heck, even if the original is driven from 3.3V via a resistor, blue LEDs are so insanely efficient that the half a milliamp or so it can get through the original resistor would still be plenty.
@@BrendonGreenNZL Fair enough, and it certainly wouldn't hurt anything to test it.
My favorite difference between Sony and Xbox consoles is how much easier it is to softmod PlayStations. I hacked my PSP, PS3, and PS4 within a few hours, I have never been patient enough mod any of my Xboxes (especially since my OG has a broken DVD drive). It's basically a selling point of the brand for me now, since doing anything on a less than perfect Xbox is a pain.
My softmodded PS2slim still works perfectly fine and that's despite the broken laser. I believe that says enough about ease and reliability of mods
Yea very true, I spend 2 days on hacking my XBOX 360 and still failed, i need to give it to a guy that has the better flasher as the Pico one just fails for no reason. No problems with PS's at all, even when both of my USB ports are dead af on my fat PS3.
It's wild the disparity between Microsoft and Sony's security
Add a modbo to a ps2 and an Xbox 360 seems like a walk in the park😁
Microsoft makes operating systems that have to deal with all sorts of malware, so they already know how to lock shit down. Same thing for Apple. The only difference between a PC and an Xbox (or a Mac and an iPhone) is how much the user is considered to be part of the threat model.
Sony on the other hand is a hardware vendor and a lifestyle brand. So they have no clue how to use cryptography effectively, how to write secure code, or even how to ensure upstream security fixes make their way into the downstream console's OS. Sony consoles will always be hackable.
Nintendo is in a weird spot where they used to be as incompetent as Sony, but massively upped their game with the Switch. It's not quite as locked-down as the 360, thanks to Nvidia screwing the pooch, but the online services for the Switch are just as easy to get banned from for doing anything untoward them as Xbox Live is.
I love how Niveus' brutishly large but effective cooling system means this will probably be the last 360 standing
They probably had caulking guns full of that white thermal grease
Throwing a bunch of metal at the problem is an effective way to achieve sufficient cooling
It's a very heavy and expensive way to do it, but it does work
@@pocketpc_ true. And heat pipes are efficient enough to move it to the heatsinks even with all the less than optimal metal to metal interfaces in those stacks
Unlikely. According to Microsoft peak temperature has little todo with the RROD.
The simple fact that the chip heats up the cools down constantly is enough to kill it.
The actual temperature it reaches doesn't make much a difference.
18:27 Relatable.
Next time some company is on a high horse about what a terrific steward of the environment they are, think of all those pristine optical drives full of rare earth metals crushed in a landfill.
The HD-DVD drives still work on any connected 360 and you can still use them to rip the discs. Understandably, that is missing the point of it working on the Edge. Still, it’s theoretically possible to run DVDs on it- resolving the whole dvd mistake. That being said, trying to play HD-DVDs these days outside of the ecosystem of 360s and dedicated players is borderline impossible- someone really should figure these things out for the sake of everyone’s sanity. Excellent work, as always.
Won't the 360 play DVDs on any regular DVD-ROM drive attached to it?
@@Stoney3K Exactly my point.
It's a solved problem -- at least the movie itself. AnyDVD HD.
Although, what you might be asking, and I don't know the answer to this, is if software exists to play the disc complete with menus and whatnot. I have boxes of Blu-rays and UH box of HD-DVDs, but I've never once played any of them from disc, so it's never occurred to me to look.
@@nickwallette6201 It has to be playable with the menus, just ripping them does not work. VLC can only play the videos themselves.
Jasper was quite literally the best 360 ever designed. It had the best cooling. It was the most efficient (in the fat models). They always stayed cooler than any model that came after them. I love them so much that when they introduced the slim, I snapped up every brand new Jasper I could afford at steep discounts to custom build. I still have three or four I bought new I also installed Zephyr copper heatsinks on mine so they would run even cooler. You picked absolutely the best generation to put in the system.
55:40 What you want is "Green wicking-grade threadlocker" . It is specifically made to be thin enough to 'wick' into pre-assembled fasteners unlike conventional threadlock, which is really only meant to be applied before assembly.
Also another note, an exposed puddle of really any* theadlock will never set and cure. Threadlockers are typically anaerobic, meaning it will only cure in the absence of oxygen (like the assembled part), so the bubble of fluid on the top will never cure. That reason is why it's important to use a wicking-grade threadlocker, as it can actually seep into the assembled area and cure rather than sitting on the surface.
This was awesome! Can’t recommend a cheap ultrasonic cleaner enough. Would have made those heat blocks a breeze.
The blades ownership analogy cracked me up. So true.
Thank you for doing the needful.
You have been killing it getting these videos out! Love every episode!
i really loved the niveus mini series and this felt like a perfect finale, really fantastic vid!!
The HD DVD drive will work as an external HD DVD drive for PC’s and Mac’s. I use mine to rip HD DVD’s with MakeMKV. It also gives me an additional DVD drive if I’m ripping a TV show something.
I have a single HD DVD video. I found it at the dollar store in like 2021. Why was it at the Dollar Store in 2021? I have no idea.
@@ReetinEntertainment My local CEX (think gamestopish, pay 50p for your stack of dvds and old compact camera) has several HD DVDs on display currently.
The wireless signal is going through the fan openings and any gaps in the case. The M$ controller had a great range because they used proprietary wireless protocols in the 2.4GHz range. Automated digital RF channel hopping and signal strength that didn't have to fall in an IEEE spec. ;)
Wearing a playstation shirt for this shoot is a nice touch =D
The reason for the rectangular cutout in the bottom is they re-used a part from something else. They were being yelled at daily by someone who'd spent a bunch of money and needed a solution. They used whatever they had to stuff a 360 into a case and get it working.
I don't really think the Xbox DID have any power management. most of these consoles did what the 3DS or so did, where the console just unloads the dashboard, or keeps a very small shim, and until you call the shim with the dashboard or mini UI, the game could take up 100% of the system resources, which were a hot commodity. and they didn't care what power management it took because it was only meant to be used occasionally for the most part.
again I could be very wrong about the xbox, but that's why I believe it had zero power management. that could also add extra work on the devs i recon.
the Xbox one instead runs everything inside a series of VMs running HyperV, which is why the PS4 is faster despite having about the same power under the hood, the xbox had a crap ton of overhead as VMs usually take up.
The VM situation on the Xbox makes me question how games even had good boot times back then considering every Xbox One shipped with a mechanical drive...
@@R4dm1nI mean, have you played a game on an xbox one recently? I wouldn't describe the boot times as "good". I remember that dragon age inquisition loaded faster on the 360 than it did on the xbone.
@@maliciousintruder3010 360 games on the Xbox One are different. Obviously it's emulating the 360 so you also have to wait for the ENTIRE Xbox 360 boot process as well... I meant more of NATIVE games, not emulated.
@@R4dm1n That's what I'm talking about. The xbox one version of dragon age inquisition loads slower than the xbox 360 version, it's not backwards compatible.
@@maliciousintruder3010 tfw i was sleep deprived while replying so my first thought wasn't to Google the game's platforms
still, that doesn't feel right
11:20 That’s interesting, the video clip saying to insert the game into an Xbox 360 is actually on a DVD video partition of the game disc (it plays when inserted into a DVD player or device that plays DVDs, say a competing console like a PS2/PS3)
So since the DVD player feature still works after a drive swap, it prevents games from running, forwarding to the DVD player feature
I got a little busy yesterday, but I'm back to finish this video out.
It's got to feel like a lot of pressure to work this kinda gig. You're obviously passionate and knowledgeable, so do it to enjoy it.
I'm proud of you and your motivation.
Go ahead and let those ideas flow brother!
It's absolutely amazing how _Microsoft_ made the Blades UI and then proceeded to make the UI progressively worse with every major update.
Oh, and the Xbox HD-DVD isn't e-waste, it works fine as a USB-DVD with any computer.
The fact that you're doing this video while wearing a PlayStation t-shirt is priceless.
ALSO,
I appreciate it when you say you are unsure or do not know something!
Gives folks something to think about, research, learn!
You're a good man, Charlie Brown.
The DVD drive pairing is only actually necessary for playing games (executing code from disc). You can use the DVD video playback functionality of a donor drive just fine on a retail console - in fact, that "error" screen that comes up when trying to play a game with an unpaired drive is just that. A DVD video. Oversimplifying massively, Xbox discs have one small DVD partition with that video on, which was meant to show if a kid puts the game into a DVD player etc. The game itself is on a separate partition which is invisible to most DVD drives, because it's missing from the disc TOC (but the xbox knows it's there).
So it might well be possible to add DVD playback support to these machines without much effort.
I've not yet finished the video so if this is mentioned please disregard my comment!
Edit: 2 minutes later, and yes, this is mostly mentioned in the video oops
They could have moved DVD drives between their consoles, that would allow dvd playback without allowing Xbox games to run, which would make that a much more valuable product
One hell of a trilogy. Can't wait to see what is next.
wow, a toploading 360! you load the hard drive into the top, and then you screw the case back on.
Just to point something out. The early model 360s like the Xenon would RROD over time no matter what. People blame it on the heat and poor heatsink + fans, which were a problem. But nowhere near a problem as people thought. The real problems were simply the solder alloy they used. It was prone to cracking and chemical issues over time. This is why DIY and repair shop reflows (be it toaster oven or a proper BGA rework station with "correct" heat profiles (I say correct like that because no correct one exists). Microsoft also appeared not to understand this for a while either (hence 2+ warranty claims (or even 5+ - I had three), hence the first hardware iteration still having issues (at a much reduced rate at least). And eventually what lead to class action lawsuits which made them increase the warranty, then in some places they just made the RROD warranty unlimited (well until console EOL).
You could take a new old stock Xenon that had been sitting on a shelf for 12 years in a climate controlled warehouse, and chances are pretty high it'd RROD within a few hours. If it didn't RROD in a month that was/is still pretty much a miracle.
I believe it was some sort of oxidation reaction going on. It was quite complex with potentially some sacrificial metal magic also acting to draw out certain elements from the solder (keep in mind this was back when companies were still getting to grips to switching to entirely lead free solder). Other factors were the way mounting pressure was applied causing warpage (though well within previously acceptable limits) and finally users not just running it hot, but living places with regular very cold ambient temps when the console was off - constant cycling between hot and cold increased the issue a lot (though again within normal values had the solder been fine). This info was from a MS internal report iirc, either leaked or maybe from discovery in court).
Also something you might find very very interesting is that someone put a bunch of unused Xenon CPUs on eBay a few years back. Meaning CPUs with no blown efuses. The calls to blow fuses manually was also known back then. Meaning you could in theory grab one of these, and load it up with your own public keys, for the individual console key load up an old private + public key from a several year old console that hasn't been on live in so long (and has no suspicious live activity).
Then you could resign the latest firmware, upgrade. Now you can jump online with an
Xbox you truly own. Run anything you want. Modify anything you want. Make the incredibly well implemented hypervisor a bit more chill. Would be amazing to own one, especially with the 1GB mod (btw if you wanted it to be a dev kit just fire off the efuse. Just make sure you reball that CPU with better leaded solder first. I heard some later chips including the CPU + GPU one also ended up on eBay - my memory is fuzzy there though.
Also one last thing to say about the 360 is the software implementation for preventing unauthorised code from running was just spectacularly fantastic. To put it in perspective, the 360's software pretty much remains unexploited to this day - there is one exception which is the KK exploit which cleverly used modified shaders to get unsigned code to run. But by the time that was public it was long patched. Since then no one has ever gotten past the software security, since the console can be thought of as a simplified virtual machine. Any type of system call from an executable? Well better check if the signed process executable was given that permission? Nope? Kill the entire process. Oh the games buffer overflowed? Who cares I didn't even notice, that'd be too much performance hit. Oh it overflowed into system memory? *loads shotgun*. Also makes it so games can only see their own files written to the HDD, like modern Android etc.
It was amazing how well they learnt their lesson from the OG Xbox. Yeah they still messed up the DVD drive security implementation and the JTAG, but it was an insane improvement in one generation from the security mess the OG was. And as I mentioned the software hypervisor was and still is almost a perfect example of console software security.
This was a great memory unlock. I was building my first home theater when this was developing (I remember giving these Niveus beasts a crazy side eye.) I spent weeks trying to squeeze a good experience out of my WRT54G, bleeding-edge Vista-compatible extender, and eventually a transcoding server to optimize all my media because of codec (and RDP) issues like this video showed. Then I threw it in a box to rot because if I was transcoding everything anyway, the PS3 was equally picky but far more capable
Rad follow-up! If I were looking for a "better" place to stick the SSD, I'd probably have stuck it to the side of the power supply case, maybe with a long extension cord you could attach it to the top of the case too? But honestly props for securing it to anything at all, honestly. I'm certainly guilty of just letting an SSD dangle from a cable or two in a pinch.
I wonder if the main reason they didn't advertise it as being able to play Xbox 360 games was to avoid issues with Microsoft. That was around the time when modchips became popular and console manufacturers started cracking down on them, so a small company with five employees selling modified Xbox consoles might get the attention of Microsoft and potentially a cease and desist.
Hiding any mention of the Xbox 360 from promotional material might have avoided their attention.
I think it helps, too, that that whole console generation had a rich modding tradition anyhow. Makes it less like you’re messing with something important and doing something very natural.
Hell, a modded original Xbox was my introduction to emulators. That was years earlier.
A modded original Xbox is were i first seen blades dashboard (actually xbmc blades) and it also had emulators, used to play Destruction Derby 64 on it.
The DVD key situation isn’t actually that dire, because the drives themselves are not married- it’s a daughterboard, so as long as you have another drive of the same model, you *can* swap that daughterboard over (it’s just a ribbon cable) and it will work.
Of course, wouldn’t help you in the Niveus situation since the drives are probably in a landfill somewhere.
Also if you wanna get that thing properly set up for mod usage and online play, Proto Stealth will stop you from getting banned on Live and even let you run the Blades dash to preserve that 2007 look. Hit me up on Cohost if you want more info about that :)
Yeah, I read that that was ostensibly possible... but then there's a ton of posts floating around from people saying they did it and it didn't work, and I *know* that makes no sense, but it suggests to me that maybe it's possible to screw up swapping the boards. So, while it *probably* never would have been an issue for me if I'd run into it - because I know to research something like that before attempting it, and because I have general electronics skills, etc. - it seems like for a lot of people it could still end with them $90 poorer and no closer to a functioning machine, you know what I mean?
@@CathodeRayDude yeah it’s definitely above what the average person will know how to parse and do, and admittedly I started working on these after they were thrift store fodder.
Fun how it was mentioned that the DVD key is on the motherboards NAND, yet continued to say "slurping keys from one drive and put them on another" as the only way.
No drive is needed, slurp the DVDkey from the console's NAND and slap it on a drive. (step 1 of modding is to pull CPUkey and DVDkey to unlock the NAND. At that point you just restore to retail firmware and program the new drive)
I love this guys humor. Thanks for making my day better!
About the locktite, it only cures in the absence of air so you either need to remove the nuts, apply it, and put them back or get an aerobic thread lock like VC-3.
The line "it doesn't tingle when you touch it on the outside" while you rubbing the box justifies everyone who watches this video giving you a like. Funny as hell.
This was everything I hoped for and more. I hadn't dreamed you would actually go so far as to switch out the guts of the thing!
This is like a Tour De Force of Dumb Guy Engineering™©®
DUMB GUY ENGINEERING IS SO FUNNY HELP
The company was renamed in 2010 to Bro Engineering.™®©
Dumb guy engineering is so fucking funny
Honestly, it just looks like a prototype to me. The kind of thing that exists in the world as proof of concept before the industrial design engineers get their turn to fight with accounting.
I think the part where he talked about reaching a point where you just toss everything else in the box, sit on it, and tighten the screws because you are just _over it_ ... that's prescient here.
Nice work dude!... For basic Vibration locking of light/low-mass fasteners i personally find finger-nail-polish to work just fine - works nicely as a tamper indicator for fasteners and adjustments.
I loved this video! The supercut process was also very enjoyable! Very reminiscent of MattKC if you know who he is
The key as to why your blue locktite did not cure is it requires isolation from the atmosphere. I believe it won't cure in the presence of oxygen if I recall correctly, but I may be mistaken on the component of the atmosphere it needs to be isolated from. Hence why it does the job of gluing fastener threads so well as the fact that it is trapped within the threads creates said isolation.
I'd probably use a dab of nail polish on the heatsink screws. It won't hold up to any real amount of torque, but it will keep them from wiggling loose. It should come off relatively easy if you need to, and since it's on metal, you could use acetone to clean it if you really needed to.
oh yes! that's what I've seen used for this, nail polish or other enamel of various types. ty!!
I’m an actual bench repair technician, and this is what we use to keep screws put. (heck, it’s what the original manufacturer of what I repair used!)
@@CathodeRayDude Adding to this, the reason the loctite didn't cure is because it requires the *absence* of oxygen to cure. It only goes off inside the threaded connection, and the bottles have special lids to ensure air circulation.
@@CathodeRayDude It achieves 2 things. Sort of holds it, but also you can see if the bolt/nut has moved.
I wasn’t even expecting a part 3. Today might not suck after all.
Damnit CRD I HAVE SHIT TO DO! I am going to have to turn off notifications because every damn time you upload I have to stop what I am doing, fix a snack, and sit down and watch your content immediately. How TF am I supposed to get anything accomplished in my life!?!?!
Our prayers have been answered 🙏
"Amontillado'd the receiver up inside the case." Bravo sir. I am determined to use that now whenever possible.
That was a good line.
this was just phenomenal and now I kinda want one. I love your channel.
Looks like you've got yourself the best 360 today. Silent, cool and modded with no limits.
Niveus may have survived if they just pivoted to premium fanless gaming consoles and gaming desktops, when microsoft left media center oems on the street
knew something looked off at the start of this video, almost expected “through the magic of buying two of them!”
Before watching these videos I didn't even know the 360 would boot without the DVD drive. I was thinking that console/drive lock prevented it from booting if the drive was missing on hardware check.
Amazing video beginning to end.
My mom bought an Xbox 360 for $20 bucks at a yard sale in 2016. The box was open but everything was still wrapped up.
Having never had an Xbox before I knew nothing about the different firmwares.
You bet I updated a complete in box blades Xbox, dumped the box and packaging, and played black ops with my buddy.
Only recently learned of my mistake. It’s now my dvd player.
Blades is dumb and it sounds like you got more than $20 worth of fun from it. No big loss
Can't you mod or hack it so you can still run games?
I don't know why people get all masturbatory about the blades firmware, it's not like it looks super cool or works better in any way. It's like pining for Windows 7 instead of Windows 11.
It's not better, just different. And old.
@@theParticleGod Gonna disagree with that. Windows 7 was the last version of Windows, IMO. Windows 8 is what sent me to the Mac world.
Blades is cool because an Xbox running Blades firmware is a living museum piece. It's like having a pet dinosaur. ANY Xbox can play games, but if you spent some formative years in Blades, and now all you have is those stupid tiles, there will be a part of you that remembers that stuff with fondness, and might want to go back and visit for a while.
@@nickwallette6201 I personally don't like the Zune vibes that the old firmware gives off, it's not that I wasn't exposed that firmware, I disliked the look of it from the beginning, with it's stupid background colors, illegible fonts and sideways labels.
It's just meaningless to say that Windows 7 was the last version of Windows. It clearly wasn't, billions of other people have continued using it, sometimes with software that's decades old working flawlessly.
You can say a lot of things about Windows, but it didn't magically transform into something else just because Microsoft scrambled the UI, much as Microsoft wished it would.
The Windows 8 marketing fluff really seems to have worked on you.
"... but they are also much nicer looking, purely because I was feeling spiteful."
1:03:25 - Apple's wasn't really a "streaming service" as such, it was an "online purchase/rental portal" - you still had to download the media to watch it. It wasn't until a few years later (and the introduction of the ARM-powered smaller AppleTV over the first-gen Intel-powered larger one) that you could directly stream, but it was still a per-movie/show purchase or rental, not what we would consider "streaming" now with a single monthly cost to watch whatever you want. (That wouldn't come around for Apple until just a couple years ago with Apple TV+ in late 2019.)
apple fans attempt not to go "ERM ACKSHUALLY" in literally any tech youtubers comments section challenge (legitimately impossible)
@@ProtoMan0451 What makes that different from any other fact correction? Is it just the sheer mention of Apple that makes it distasteful to you?
I bought a Gen 1 Apple TV as an experiment for streaming my personal music/video library, and the OP here brought back a long lost memory of the one or two times I used it to rent a movie, before deciding I might want to try converting it to an XBMC box instead. So "ERM ACKSHUALLY" thanks for the well-detailed post.
The little Knipex Cobra adjustable pipe wrenches are perfect for doing big panel mount rings and all sorts of crap that defies regular wrenches.
Of course the problem with the 4 inch one is I lost it. RIP to my best pliers.
Long live the 5 inch one with its hi-vis red handles and all around grabbable bulk. 5 stars.
Thank you for following the recommendations! You deserve all the praise!
Was there anything out of the ordinary that you learned from the second former niveus employee about the company's operation was it pretty much just more of what you expected
Yeah basically just confirmation of everything and more elaboration that I felt was not contributory to the video; I've dunked on this company from a distance for two videos, I wanted this one to mostly be about what I did instead of what they did.
I think the edge doesn't function as a Faraday cage because only the top has holes at all and they're probably not the right size and distance to block the necessary wavelengths
IIRC, a grounded sheet of solid aluminum may slightly impede radio waves, but it's the holes that cause them to scatter and function as a proper cage
...huh. Huh. Really? The mesh is actually _functional_, not just a property of needing airflow?
@@CathodeRayDude afaik, yeah, but I'm just vaguely recalling some science demonstrations from ages ago, hardly an expert, worth looking up if you got the time, I gotta pick some veggies ATM 🤷
@@CathodeRayDude well I finished picking greens and went and looked it up and I think my understanding was wrong, but I think I also found the reason for your controller working all in the last two lines of Wikipedia's summary 🙃
"Near-field, high-powered frequency transmissions like HF RFID are more likely to penetrate. Solid cages generally attenuate fields over a broader range of frequencies than mesh cages."
So it seems a solid cage should be _more_ effective as you'd surmised, but I think the Xbox controller probably qualifies as a "near-field, high-powered frequency" more likely to penetrate 🤔
Faraday cages are also much less effective in practice than in theory, at least at the microwave frequencies that modern digital electronics use.
At my former workplace, my colleagues wanted to make a lab to do WiFi experiments in a controlled, otherwise radio-silent environment. They tried Faraday cages, but nothing worked, the devices were still getting signals from the rest of the office. In the end they had to put that whole lab in the basement.
I also listened to a talk at a conference where radio engineers described an RF testing setup they built, and they had similar conclusions - if you need to block microwave RF at any meaningful level, you need specialized shielding that goes for hundreds if not thousands of dollars. No domestic casing is gonna cut it. It might lower the signal level by a couple dB, but nothing that will stop the thing from working.
@@kFY514You might be surprised at the effectiveness of Faraday cages, if the hole sizing is correct.
I mean look at the door of your ~1kW microwave oven. Almost identical frequency as Bluetooth and 2.4GHz WiFi.
the key can be pulled from motherboard for dvd drive then use the usual dvd firmware hacking tools to write key\firm. The HD-dvd drive update an be applied by disc or usb as well just like the old xbox compatibility disc update does.
Fantastic series on this thing. I've been waiting to see how the case was used for cooling
I never heard of this device.. thanks for info & modding. This inside looks very interesting. good job on battling with thermal paste LOL! good job.
Thanks for sharing this great job! Loved this series
You could extend the DVD cable (maybe with a connector in the back) and a longer SATA cable and have the drive be external and removable.
And I thought we were spoiled by that lovely stream
1:00:00 You're missing a VERY obvious place to stick that drive. Stick it to the side of the power supply with some of the Gorilla tape. You have a huge flat spot right there.
It doesn't fit as well as it looks, trust me. I could use an extension but then I'd have a bunch of extra miserable cable mess torquing the drive connector, which *really* wants to pop out of the board as it is.
@@CathodeRayDudeYou could perhaps swap it for mSATA?
This reminded me of when I modded my original Xbox in 2019. Took it from stock to softmodded with a new(ish) bigger HDD and a tube-sleeved IDE cable.
I ended up having to cut chunks out of the HDD caddy to even get the thing to route all the way over to the drive, but I managed it. So, I guess it's technically a hardmod in this instance.
I also had to twist the cable something fierce to get it to route into the DVD drive's slot. That's one of the main benefits of using a tube-style one, since they take bends much better.
In any case, when you spend enough time taking care of and modifying the internals of these things, you really do become attached to them. I can tell that happened to you as well.
Not only did he spend time and effort preserving a blades dash mobo, he made this big heatsink box thing disguised as a media center run games again. I'm speechless, that's why I like this channel.
29:06 Nice pun :)
55:53 Not superglue... how about hot glue?
1:01:20 I feel like they knew they were, yet felt that, because of the lack of a Vista Media Center Extender, they had no choice, so did what they could to make it Just Barely Work (tm) and shipped it out to customers, expecting it to fail, by which point a proper device would exist, so that they could say "oh, just send back the Edge and we'll replace it with The Proper Solution". Just my $0.02
"My favorite thing about SKATE, is that you can just, NOT"
LMAO I love CRD!
I think the 'unused' groove cutout helps divide the heat to the tubes, solid block could send more heat to one pipe.
Simply amazing also, if you have one of those windows remote receivers and remote, you can use the remote with the xbox 360 to have the media center experience with it and amazing video and gotta watch your other edge related content.
Love the sentiment behind going with just modding the thing to be useful. If anything it's even MORE unique of an item because of it.
The 360's had a multimedia update for blade that if you got it would let you play more dvds and such and that is the thing it probably needs to download.
Blade OS was so damn good, super snappy, clean and good-looking with far lower latency than every other Xbox OS iteration that came after, it got to the point that the Xbox On shipped with a dog slow front end that was so laggy, Blade OS was developed by the MS guys that actually knew how t make a decent OS GUI, MS fired them all I believe, which might explain the Metro GUI & Windows 8.
To me Blades Dash was a thing of the first O.G XBOX, but thats why the first time I've seen it was on a modded XBMC XBOX. But even there it feels nice and nostalgic.
one of my fav channels,every now and then i have too binge. your an invaluable source of information and familiarity when it comes too old tech. i appreciate what you do,keep it up bro bro.
I guess we could retcon iTunes on Apple TV as being a streaming service, but back then it would have been considered video on demand. Pedantic, yes, but I only mentioned it because I was thoroughly confused when you said this, since Apple's first true streaming service was Apple+. But now every platform calls itself a streaming platform, whether the content is free, ad supported, subscription, channel based, or rental/purchase based. Even movies anywhere more or less describes itself as a streaming platform, despite the fact you have to buy or rent anything you want to watch, last I checked.
Granted, it is all streamed, unlike the very earliest days of pay per view which I think were still technically analog, so it's not incorrect, but one can understand why I took a double take and had to ask the internet a few things after hearing you say that.
Yeah, at least it seems that we're slowly growing out of calling it all "Digital" .... as opposed to DVD/BD/HD-DVD, which were... um... hm.
The shirt choice didn't go unnoticed. Well done lol.
Near the end of the video I started thinking "This has got to have spiked the price of Niveus Edges on ebay". The only listing is an empty Edge case (some wires, no heat pipes, unclear if the top is present) for 750$
I was JUST watching your old videos when this dropped, nice