How Record Labels Market Music | Facebook Ads vs Other Music Marketing Methods feat.
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- Опубликовано: 29 окт 2020
- In this video Jesse Cannon and I talk about how record labels market music, Facebook ads vs other music marketing methods, and how indie artists can grow their fanbase. Jesse (aka Musformation on RUclips) has experience from working at major record labels, producing artists are major and indie labels, working with artists 1-on-1 and wrote the top rated music business book on Amazon.
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Thanks man your the best!!!!!! I just registered EVERYBODY click that link you gonna be a master spotifier not even SNOOPDOOG will come close to you... NAH!! TO LATE but nice try
🚨 Long Post Warning 🚨
I love this conversation. In many ways I can totally agree with what Jesse is saying in regards to “not knowing what song has susceptibility” or new artists thinking ads are a cure all and that it will instantly lead to millions of plays, streams, followers etc. there is no DOUBT that community is important, and that an artist should have a good baseline of content for a new viewer to fall in love with them.
I disagree however with what he says about audience retention and it messing with your algorithm or fake numbers. Andrew has proven over and over again with his content that the fans that choose to click an ad are engaged and INTENTIONAL fans that usually end up adding a song to a user curated playlist and will stream the song again. In fact, Andrew usually emphasizes the point that the beginning of the Facebook ad is not really about the initial numbers… But the aftermath. The argument that these are low level fans doesn’t really hold up based solely on the numbers and the data. The fans can also lead to RUclips views and Instagram followers as well.
As far as not being able to target a micro genre I agree that that can be a difficulty, but Facebook will continue to prioritize conversions anyway. So, as long as there is an audience that is still clicking your ad, Facebook will make them a priority and you’ll still get listeners. Again, the hypeddit and Spotify numbers don’t lie. Regardless of the ad set you use … an engaged listener who likes your song and adds the song to a playlist is a win in my book.
Lastly, Andrew also emphasizes that the whole initial point of running a Facebook ad is to increase initial traffic to the song to eventually trigger the algorithm to put the song on Discover Weekly, Radio, Release Radar etc. which will lead to streams for months or even years, which will create a royalty that will repay your ad investment. For many brand new artists, they don’t have enough listeners or streams or followers to even have the option to use the new Discovery Mode… So using Facebook ads is in my opinion an excellent way to initially build a fan base before you can advertise right in Spotify using their tools (marquee, discovery mode). Once you’ve built up a big enough following on Spotify, you can use these features to compound the streams you already have. But FB ads are a great strategy to get your account off the ground imo.
It should not be overlooked though that it is true what Jesse is saying about having a great song and actually recognizing if the ad is worth your time. Running different ads gives you that perspective… You realize what works and what doesn’t work. I also acknowledge the hard truth that the reality is most indie musicians simply don’t have a high enough budget to really properly test or see what’s working.
There is NO guarantee, but I think ads have a well deserved place in a successful musicians arsenal.
All in all, I have seen success with Facebook ads and I will continue to use them. I am also a huge fan of Jesse and the content that he puts out regarding building a community, using TikTok, your release plan, and having an engaged audience. There is no one size fits all. I will continue to watch both Andrew’s videos and Jesse’s videos as I believe both these guys have some serious value !!!!! I seriously thank both you guys for what you do. I’ve learned so much.
Sorry for the BOOK 📕 LOL. I wish everyone success - see you all @ the Grammys!!!
Andrew Southworth and Jesse Cannon. The ultimate crossover.
i love how respectful they are to each others differences
I love Jesse, but I think what he overlooks is how rewarding it can be for an unknown musician to get that initial burst of engagement through FB ads, and that that engagement can generate pockets of fans across the world. But will FB ads single-handedly forge a trail of dedicated fans from coast to coast who will support your next tour? Definitely not.
I'm gonna be totally honest. I see where Jesse is coming from, but I'm way more on Andrew's side of the table. No facebook ads aren't magic, the content must be 100% quality and the interaction with the artist and fans must be solid. But beyond that, Facebook Ads are the thing right now!
Yeah thats how I feel too. He's right that a lot of people will dive into ads even if they aren't ready, and that people will use ads and ignore all the other aspects of their marketing. But at the same time, if you don't do those things Facebook Ads are super dope.
I will say though it was an eye opener to hear his points as a reminder that we can't forget about everything else we should be doing... branding, story-telling, social media content, etc. Even though Facebook Ads are great, we can't use them as a crutch and forget everything else.
What about RUclips Ads ?
Calling out the 'inspiration based' marketing channels 😂. You're right in saying that people like you for the real data and real information you provide
AGREED! That inspiration shit is good to get inspired but has very little substance Haha
job
I've been trying both ways since starting to release music last year. So for the engagement Jesse recommends has done the most. I stream on reddit, collaborate with others, and try to make instagram content. I believe that has brought in much more people than ads, and not only that, but I think they're better quality fans too. Not sure if that's always the case, but it is for me so far
Sixnine cousin says sixnine is droppin a new song called tada ruclips.net/video/7eTnLm_IFtw/видео.html
The origin story doesn't start with a bad song. A bad song doesn't do well in fb ads either. Ultimately it's about great songs. How you get that great song to an audience is up to you.
Dude.. this is so insightful it’s insane. Thank you so much for taking the time to reach out to him, interview him and put the video together so that all of us can learn. You’re dope 💯
Love this convo! “Do eventful things...”and it will convert people. SO TRUE!!!! 🎶👍
Good call!
This is an interesting and intriguing conversation for sure. That being said it focuses on one single aspect of a musician's career. I'm slowly falling away from being an "artist" and more of a business owner, trying to build a community over time but building products like sample packs, music writing courses, midi packs, music licensing for visual media, and of course albums and merch. There's a massive amount of things a smart musician can do with their craft. Love this video and learned a lot!
One of the most resourceful videos on marketing I’ve ever watched.
This is such a great, honest discussion about music marketing. It’s so refreshing to see discussion without fighting.
THIS... IS... GOLD! Big thank you for this.
You are correct here, sir, in the beginning. Your statistical candor is one of your greatest draws.
It's not the concept of using "facebook ads" that's the issue. It's when people say, modern advertising in general is not the best. form of outreach. Once you establish a brand and you have good music, ads are a must for us indie artists. NF, was signed to a label, his brand was top notch, music was good, and back in 2016,2017 you couldnt miss an NF facebook ad. He was able to secure a number 1 album in the country.
The guy who hates on Facebook ads vs the guy who teaches them lol
hahaha I thought it would be a great discussion, and it was. Figured it would give everyone a fresh perspective.
Andrew Southworth I am sooo happy this came together learned a lot 🙏
I just wanted to echo other people's comments on one particular thing: being a content creator is HARD.
It's not easy to make GOOD quality content that actually tell a compelling story and succeeds in making the viewers entertained and, ultimately, entangled.
And one could argue it's even HARDER to have the PR/social skills to actually create the connections Jesse talks about.
I have seen lots of very successful musicians that have a RUclips channel/Twitch stream and there's one thing that hit me after watching some videos: those were not "musicians" anymore, they have become RUclipsrs/Content creators because that's where their focus ended up being, with music taking a back seat.
What if you're a good musician but you're a terrible at creating an interesting persona or making content?
Trying that route would almost surely backfire, rather than helping.
I think Facebook ads (or any other marketing tool) help in a SMALL AMOUNT the smaller/newer artists to make sure their music is heard and, from there, it's all up to each person's expectation.
You won't make a living of music + facebook ads, that's granted, but it could surely be a start.
What would be interesting is a video about "Ok, you've hit of streams and built a small fan base. What next?"
Love this discussion. Thanks so much !!
Literally one of the most enjoyable videos I've watched on the subject thanks for making it and keep up the great work both of you I subscribe to both your channels and have learned a ton!
A lot of great insight in this vid, thanks! Not all 'fans' you find via ads are 'low bar' fans - many people actually share the ad on their feed, believe it or not, so that's free extra advertising that's sure to reach proper potential fans. I also got some internet radio play from a 'fan' who saw an ad. But I agree very much on having enough music for potential fans to explore and a proper profile.
Great job with this one, really enjoying it. 😀 Keep it up bro!
Learned so much from watching this interview, cheers!
My band recorded their first EP at Cannon Found Soundation! Read get more fans a bunch as well, I love seeing how far you have come homie keep up the good work!! 💪
Community:
Write with other people/collab
Go on IG live with other artists
Use message boards
Go through SoundCloud tags
Do remixes
Music videos
RUclips content
When Jesse Cannon mentioned "dialectics" I became a superfan.
Interesting interview guys. Thanks.
Thanks to Andrew, I am trying the FB ads for the first time. Let’s see what I learn.
Hes right... name one successful artist whos made it big using Facebook Ads?. The only ones are RUclipsrs talking about using it which monetizes their YT content ! p.s I use FB Ads...and love your channel!
The thing is, how would we ever know which artists made it big using Facebook ads? It also depends what you mean by big too, 200k monthly listeners and good merch sales vs international superstar - both are big. Most super big artists have labels and agencies running things for them, and for many of those artists the work was put in years ago.
@@AndrewSouthworth yup was talking about recent major artist whos recently blown up as opposed to a successful musician who makes a living out of music/social media etc.. it's all in the interpretation I suppose of what's success ,love your content anyway and channel !!🤘
@@webmart70 another comment on here mentioned NF
Guy in my city and he burning up
once again andrew southworth uploaded a video that makes me wanna take notes!
I love the info and the honesty . Will look into more videos
Thanks dude!
I bought Jesse’s book 3 years ago and it was inspiring. Nonetheless, Andrew’s channel is a great resource. By profession, I am a researcher and to figure out who to target on FB ADS is not an easy task. In my case Andrews advice has been helpful.
Inspiration is one thing, but did these book get you any results, for example, a bigger audience, more revenue?
Excelente entrevista
I really love this. You guys vibe well and I think you need to do this monthly. And you basically did that “Share the fanbase” thing RE: marketing like you advised artists to do with their music careers. 😂 Maybe spawn a Twitch talk show and get that revenue. I’d subscribe like yesterday. 😃
Amazing info here. Thank you both
Thanks dude! Glad you liked it.
This is such a great video. There's so much bad information out there. Thanks so much for giving me some ideas!
Thanks! Glad you found it helpful.
loved this!
Great information thank you gentlemen.
amazing amount of information .thank you
A lot of good information here 🙏🏽🙏🏽
At one point your guest says “I hope people aren’t still using cd baby to distribute music” & Andrew just nodded his head in agreement, I was hoping you could touch on why that service is not as viable as it once was, thx
My personal reason for disliking them is their incredibly high cost and slow delivery time compared to other options out there, tunecore is even worse when it comes to cost. DistroKid is what I use.
@@AndrewSouthworth High cost but it's a one time fee...it's up forever.
YES! The Clash Of The Titans we were all waiting for!
Gold dust information as always, thank you
This is very informative!!!!
Our rare piece of information contribution? Personally I appreciate that Jesse talks on the "language". Not undermining tensions far and close, we push this: "the language of rioting is the language of the unheard" @Musformation & lastly, "What then do we say for these things? If God is for us who can be against us?".... on Feedback: If you had this information, what would you do with it?
dude worked with senses fail that’s awesome
To all viewing combine both gems and I promise you will create a 💎 …. Stay focused and happy Easter 💯♾💯
WOO Prog Rock! Awesome video guys, great information and advice.
Thanks Tanner!
@@AndrewSouthworth Thank you for your videos, my band Hexenbane just released our first single last week and I had never tried Facebook ads before so you filled in all the gaps for me, much appreciated
Building a story is not marketing, it’s branding. Branding is building a brand and making your company/product trust worthy and iconic. Marketing and advertising is for acquiring new customers, that’s where fb ads and other tactics come in.
It depends what you're talking about. Building a story around your new single thats releasing i'd say is more marketing than branding, because the whole point of the story is to make the song more 'stickable' and 'communicatable' to an audience when you show it to them. The story for the song is tied to your brand, but its objective is marketing related, and it will help spread word of mouth.
Really interesting conversation, Shame it cuts off at the end.
Cool video!
Great great Infoooooo
Jesse looks young here. Is this really only 2 years ago?
Being a content creator take a toll on you 😂 but yeah it was within a month of whenever this video was published.
Great stuff...knowledge should be sheared, but if you don't use it....well!
He did podcast professionally for warner music and look at the quality of his audio. I wanna listen the full vid but i cant. I stopped at minute 18. Thanks still tho. For the artists: if you are a great one the ll find you. Just put your misic out there. Dont get discouraged by what he says. Incredible artists who also build a good brand for theirselves always make it to top. Just put it out there and do it consistently guys.
The audio quality might be my fault, i'm just capturing system audio from Zoom for all my guests and he might not have his high quality audio setup hooked up for Zoom calls either.
Damn I really like his perspective on not doing the teases. I've been hating doing the tease type shit and it always felt wrong, because I've posted stuff that's upcoming and people are so hyped to hear it, but can't - and then when I finally release it, it doesn't get the same reach/impression.
I wrote 500 songs and only twenty or so sound like something different and of those only one or to seem to be good but I have no following yet I will be watching more of your videos I learnd a lot thank you
Glad you liked it! Thats honestly a similar ratio for me in terms of writing. I only release 8-12 songs per year but I create well over 100 per year and I have literally thousands of tracks I wrote that were never released over the past 15+ years.
i stayed up to 1:21:00 very good talk..
haha nice! glad you enjoyed it.
Most ironic part of this video are the ads that play in between for the "join my amazing fb ads course that will get out millions of streams"... :)
haha what ads did you see? I've had RUclips Premium for so long, haven't seen ads in years.
@@AndrewSouthworth Not sure who they are exactly, but I've had a variety of what Jesse would call the "scum of the earth" pop up... I actually paused my youtube premium and many other little things for this weird covid time budget wise. So I too am not used to all these ads :)
Thanks for all the great videos!!
At 1:29:30 This. The reason it's so difficult to make it in music, is because the fans rip off artists constantly, which has been normalized and enabled by google, youtube, spotify, etc. who promote free content, essentially robbing the artist and then charge advertisers for the user data. By presenting the music for free, it becomes more accessible, but it loses value. The music industry used to have budgets because people actually spent money on physical copies of music. With that model out the windows and no live shows, how can you make A LIVING on essentially free streaming music? It's an insulting business model that we're all way too comfortable with. In the end the artists pay the price.
Brand deals. Also corona isn’t gonna last forever...i hope lol
You can make a living if you have lots of good quality songs and you keep making them more and more. Also, to own as much rights for that music as possible personally will help. Compose, perform, produce yourself. I think it was Russ who said that he is selling himself and his songs are his salesmen
Everyday is more easy to produce music, faster, in he old days took a lot to record and mix and master 1 song, now is fast , easy and good quality, just need to put your creativity and then it can produce a lot
@@habzonemusic8431 One of the main problems is when you're pumping out a new song every week there is no way in hell that the quality is going to be up to snuff.
@@MassDriver that is correct
"
Andrew Southworth is the God of the Facebook ads" - well, you are :-), it really works if you put more money into it.
Very resourceful, but very vague. How can we know the step-by-step process?
Nobody cares about what you have to say until they know how much you care. These days not to many people care about anything anymore. Desensitized by time. People aren't listening to new music today we'll cause mostly 90% of it is garbage sad but true and that's not just my opinion that what studio producers told me. I can understand that and I'm just as disappointed in new music and apathetic towards new artists especially hip/hop rap that all sounds the same and every artist is not original. The music industry is in desperate need of real talent and original sounds and lyrics with meaning not just about girls, drugs, sex money or partying ect... Now I have a lot of respect for artists and no disrespect for their music it's just my perception of our current music industry. I produced and released some really well produced songs, lyrics and vocals. I'm a Veteran ready to rock the stage and make more music but will I get signed? Are labels willing to change the industry or keep the crap
I agree most music today totally sucks. That mumble rap is the worst form of it but it's across many genres.
@@nyacoustics8373 I'm grateful I can can just abandon modern music a listen to real music, my favorites. Music is forever.
2:30 was that me
23:00 no that was me
Could we get Jesse to elaborate a bit more about his CDBaby comment? I currently am on CDBaby with two albums and am planning to release my next album with them. I've never had any issue with them...just wondering about this!
totally. I've ONLY used them. Rreally surprised me to hear this. They're one of the only distributors I know that has a one time fee to have your music up forever. It's the best, isn't it? Instead of paying a yearly fee to keep your music up.
Music videos for unsigned artists are a spectacular waste of money. Look at the average watch time of videos on RUclips or Instagram. Just focus on engaging 15 / 20 second clips and promote them to drive engagement. A music video without promotion sits there with no views, which only makes you look bad.
You can shoot a video yourself for free lol by this logic everything is a waste of money or time. Just like music videos, tons of artists are making 15-20 second clips that no one engages with. Nothing is guaranteed results but only not doing it guarantees no results
I agree - there’s nothing that makes a band look more amateur than a terrible music video
SHOUTOUT TOOL AND THE 1975 😎💪🏻🏆
Most of click throughs come from algeria and Morocco is it a bad thing? Usa is not even in my top countries...
Link that Instagram hashtag vid he calls "one of the best videos on marketing" please
Did he ever do it?
@@Donhart1984 Nope but I found it, I got u
ruclips.net/video/_Zfmopu9jhw/видео.html
@@kingzquarters4840 was just looking for it thank you
I was sure looking for a update on that. Thank you for finding
Building a cult base or community is a lot harder than it sounds...
Would love to connect with you guys, my name is Bex, im a hiphop artist from mississippi just getting started with marketing.
This video made me feel overwhelmed and depressed... Fuck man... I don't have the time to do all this shit and most musicians putting out a song a month are trash to me... Good music usually takes time to write and hone and I spent 15 years writing basically 2 albums that I am super proud of (and a lot on the cutting room floor)... No one gave a shit about the first.... now what....
You can totally do all this stuff if you prioritize it. One approach is to release the album as singles on streaming services, one every 4-6 weeks. This way you can use your 2 albums of material over multiple years (which gives you time to write new music). If its more of an 'album experience' you can make the full album available on your website, and only on streaming services it gets trickled out as singles - this gives a reason for people that love it to buy from you direct since its early access.
Its a lot of work, not gonna hide that. Between all my work and music stuff i'm putting in about 70+ hours a week of work. I do all my own writing, recording, mixing, mastering, artwork, videos and marketing and its incredibly time consuming. Batching music really helps and switching to a song every 6-8 weeks instead of 4-6 weeks made it possible for me.
Another perspective is that the first time someone hears your music its new to them, so you can still promote your album even if nobody cared when you released it. Also if albums are really your cup of tea the Indepreneur method might be more conducive to your goals - check them out if you haven't heard of them. A lot of their success stories don't have a ton of streams, but they sell a solid amount of CD's and vinyl and merch - enough to make a living on.
Music marketing is a deep topic but don't let it get the best of you. Everyone is bad at this stuff when they start.
@@AndrewSouthworth wow man. I can't believe you wrote this reply and so quickly. Idgaf about albums really so I am more than willing to take it all down and start releasing one song at a time and promoting your way... Or adam ivy.. Or a combo... After my full time job I already feel spent though so even 10 hours a week is overly daunting to me. Just figuring out if I can take my music off cd baby and rerelease without distribution problems is enough to make me want to drink more.. I really appreciate your content man and have ran Facebook Ads from it (with relatively low price per conversion but like almost no Spotify plays somehow??) maybe I'll figure something out, but as it is, by the time I get to this stuff I am already feeling burned out by work and life. Fuck me....
I got over 40,000 fans without and promo now I decided to do promo
What About RUclips Ads ?
Podcasters do make money from Spotify if they use Anchor.
Bro I would pay good money to learn how they promote and build artists like flying lotus
Hey man great video! I have a question on an ad campaign I’m doing. I just started a new campaign for a song using Hypeddit and it says I have 200 conversions, hypeddit also says I have 200 Spotify link clicks. But on Spotify I have 125 streams, why is that? Could it be delayed even though the counter says ‘live’ beside it? Thanks keep banging out the content!
The missing 75 streams are people who started to listen to your song but turned it off before the 30-second mark (I believe that's when it's counted as a stream.) - Spotify also updates their numbers once a day for the previous 24 hour period, where as Facebook and Hypeddit update in real-time. So you could have possibly only got 125 streams on the first day, then the next day Spotify will update with the remaining 75 that came in from midnight and is registered as the streams for second day. It'll most likely be a combination of both of those things!
@@kierannewell6253 ah ok thanks!! Is that % too big do you think? Because for my last song I had more listens than conversions which really confusing to me because this song is better
@@ProjectAbdo It depends on how many days you've been running the campaign for and how much your Cost Per Conversion and budget is etc. For example, if you're getting 50 Hypeddit Smart Link Clicks a day at a low CPC (Under £0.30 a conversion) and from that you're only actually getting 40 streams a day then I'd say that's passable and I'd just up the budget so you get more streams for cheap and not worry about that loss.
If you have a CPC of £0.40 or above then I'd suggest trying different targetting and find things that work even better than what you already have.
@@kierannewell6253 my last song had an average cpc of €0.11. I just started my new one yesterday and it’s at like €0.20 but it’s going down
@@ProjectAbdo That's great! If you can, just up the budget for more results - I'd just focus on the daily numbers rather than the overall total as that sounds like that's a good campaign you have on your hands! Wishing you the best success!
i love glaive lol
Why not use CD Baby? What’s the disadvantage?
I’d like an explanation of that too
@@rpwilliams1457 personally, you have to pay for every release, rather than a distrokid where it’s a one time fee. Very big advantage as a small artist trying to have small release after small release
@@huntingsaw4599 Distro kid is a yearly fee, is it not? That definitely isn't a one-time fee. Am I totally misinformed on this?
Why not CD Baby?
I find them to be very expensive and very slow compared to distrokid and many other distributors.
I was that guy baiting him bytheway bc he constantly says not to use Facebook ads
TOP ANIME CROSSOVER EPISODE EVER
What's a message board
Basically a forum. I just launched a forum at forum.generastudios.com and Jesse has a group in FB.
Yeah I'm with Andrew, the other guy waffles around the same thing but without making a true case for an alternative...
Finn Meckenty's video: ruclips.net/video/_Zfmopu9jhw/видео.html
You're welcome
thank you!!! i was looking all over for that lol!
Why does it feel like I have watched this before? 🤔
Hahaha were you at the live stream?
@@AndrewSouthworth Hmmm maybe... When was it live streamed? It seemed like I had heard a lot of it before haha I was even thinking maybe it had been Jesse on another interview. Anyway, I was tripping out haha
We did it last week.
@@AndrewSouthworth ahhhh that's it then. I think I was getting confused with the other one you had previously done. Actually I think you had a premiere for it so I thought it was new haha all good, great info
I’ve watched 46 min and he still hasn’t answered how to actually build a community in todays age without ads. 10 years ago is not 2022. He actually deferred the question a few times. Sure an artist has a story but who cares if your unnoticed. If nobody knows where to find your story or how to find you then how do you build an organic community. So the question is do we treat this as a business or networking event.
Yo this was a great video. I know what I should do for my career now cuz I was about to go STUPID on promo cuz I wanted to hit more spaces but I'm guessing getting in the right place is better
This right here shouldn't be free. We're lucky it is though
So the guy on the left wants me to keep doing the same things I've been doing for 16 years with very little success, as opposed to running ads that reach millions of people & get better results than I've ever had?, dude.....
What is the guest info. I'm trying to hire his girlfriend as my distributor
guys. I love you guys both. I really do. but all Im hearing here is network with other people at the expense of your own development. If your music is that good, I think it will be noticed. even on facebook. The bar for talent has lowered to the point where people just accept cross promoting, working with producers...bla bla bla.. Did Van Halen or Guns and Roses network and cross promote? no. they took the stage and the red sea parted. I am banking on the advice that Steve Martin gave. "Be so good they cant ignore you" (by the way, Cardi B stinks)
I wish you were right but there’s pig shit blowing up bro
I agree cardio b totally sucks. Yet there is so much trash just like her. Not quite sure how these artist even 'made it"
Indie Academy teaches correctly how to use Facebook adds. It’s not true, that facebook adds is bad, there is a way to do it correctly.
Yeah i've used Facebook ads to drive well over 100 million streams on Spotify, plus tens of thousands of email subscribers, thousands of merch orders, thousands of ticket sales etc.
this is really discouraging. we just hit 6,000 plays in our first few weeks for a track, and that's a big deal for us. it's more than most bands around us have gotten, and it's been hard earned. this guy talks like anything under 10k streams isn't even worthy of being useable data.
FUCK NO @52:40 lol, 0.1% of 350m is 350k people, NOT 3M ffs.... that's arithmetic 101, not even math
I said 350k and then Jesse said 3M, but he mentioned he's bad at math. I didn't want to correct him because either way it doesn't matter which number is correct - the amount of people is still massive either way you cut it.
Also often when people are filming videos, it can be tricky to do mental math because you're constantly thinking of what you're going to say, what the next topic will be, how you look on camera etc.