Yeah I’m watching this review for the first time to see if I wanted to buy it. I’m sitting here like “what is he talking about? I thought he loved this game?!” Lol
Yeah to be fair I don't think I've reread the rulebook since I bought it but I play solo a lot with this game. I always run 4 characters. I do that with Eldridge horror and many other games as well.
Not all of the tiles are that single square tile. There's only a few of those. And anyway that's kind of thematic. These guys are supposed to be older gods. If you see any of the posters or pictures of them they're literally bigger than a house. So I think thematically overruning the square works.
I have played this with my significant other a good number of times. We started playing one character each, but with only 2 characters it was too random for us. Since then, we've been playing with two characters each and it's been a lot of fun. Where the game shines most in our opinion is that the game endings are often close calls, generating many epic moments through our sessions.
Amazing production value on this vid, love the effects and text overlay. Plus Zee you have a great sense of humour which makes these vids dead easy to watch.
For me, as a fan of "eldest sign", and the Cthulhu theme, I saw this as a logical step forward in the "move to a room, chuck some dice, pass or fail" with a story line wrapper. I love the replayability having gone "all-in" on the KS (crazy amount of monsters, 40 investigators, half a dozen big baddies and a dozen episodes to choose from). Have had no issues playing with 2 characters, winning 3/2 so far. Totally loving this game with friends and solo. Thanks for the review. It's a fair rating given the concerns raised, albeit not everyone would agree but that's what reviewed are about right, opinions 😉. Glad to see it reviewed. Thanks for your continued dedication and honesty 😁
Played this game last week for the first time and loved it. Your review really nails it though. We played 2 players and lost horribly, but I still had a fantastic time because I DO value atmosphere highly, and this delivered on that in spades. I loved the characters, loved the minis, and loved the cinematic atmosphere.
I've been a big fan of The Dice Tower for maybe 6 years now, but specially big fan of Zee! Loved watching some interview in spanish he did a few years back, since I live in Mexico. Saludos Zee! Sigue haciendo un buen trabajo, un abrazo!
the cramped board was also my first issue... just went to a copycenter and made enlarged board pieces... i agree they should have done it themselves, but it was a practical fix.
Great review as always, Zee. And nice job with the effects on the video! Someone is leveling up! Really been waiting to see what you think about this - even though I already have the Kickstarter and have played. I disagree with parts of the review but I always find you fair and comprehensive. I’ve played and won with two players although it is definitely difficult. So I think you CAN play with fewer than four but you do have to be aggressive and maximize your turns. I LOVE the cinematic/thematic nature of the game and I find it quite easy to teach which is nice for a Cthulhu game. Definitely more for fans of Zombicide than, say, Eldritch Horror. Right on the mark in terms of the criticism of the map tile size. It’s a shame although it’s just a minor negative for me. Considering the size and number of miniatures I can only imagine how big the tiles - and therefore the box! - would have to be to address this. I’m OK with the cluttered table since I enjoy the game. For sure a lot of luck involved although I feel that’s the case with many Cthulhu games, honestly. Kind of a nice, frantic, tactical alternative to something like Mansions of Madness in my book. Definitely looking forward to a lot more scenario and Elder God battles in the future. No matter what, always enjoy your work and looking forward to (hopefully) meeting you at DT West next month!
I think this is one where the Kickstarter version's glut of additional content really helps - normally it is "how will I ever play all this?" but as it is so modular re: the Old Ones, i've already used quite a lot of the additional material and feel I will easily see all of it in a reasonable amount of time. Normally I'm not bothered about not having Kickstarter additions, but in this one I'm VERY glad I went and KSed it.
I absolutely love this game. There’s tons of strategy and tactics in this game. I agree with a lot of Zee’s comments such as the luck factor, the need for three or more players and the small tiles. But for me this great is amazing. It had tons of strategy and tactics and I’ve been able to win by the skin of my teeth.
I agree on the size of the tiles. Often we have overflow lol. As for difficulty, I most often play with 2 and have only lost a couple of times. If anything I think the game is a little on the easy side. My experience has been more players make it more difficult. I have also had a different experience with the dice chucking. I love the stress for rerolls, and have not gotten a “swingy” feeling from the mechanics. It’s not for everyone, but it certainly is for me. Have played 14 times so far with no end in site lol. Thanks for the review!
Yeah, I've played 4 times with 2, and we're 3-1 so far. You get more discovery cards with 2, so that's how it scales. I also find it quite strategic, but the dice rolling is exciting in this game, too. I love euro games more, usually. I don't think the tiles are a problem at all. I've played 6 times total, and just a few times we've had Cthulhu off to the side of a tile that's too small. That's not a big deal. I watched the play through of this, and I was pretty surprised at the responses to it. This is in my top 10 of the year, and the rest are mostly euro-games.
It’s interesting that the “you can just lose” aspect was such a negative, considering you like Pandemic so much because I feel the same way about that game. Maybe I’m just a scrub though.
Probably my favorite or second favorite game of 2019. Just plain fun. Just fine with two, 50% win rate or so, depending on some baddies in the expansions can be brutal. Quite a few close endings too.
I’ve tried variants where spending a stress means I can pick the side (which made it too easy) and have settled on “spend 1 to reroll as usual, spend 2 to pick the side”. That makes the game more fair I’ve found, and allows some strategy.
I watched a playthrough of this game and was also surprised by how quickly the board became overcrowded. I still purchased the game, including season 2 and still looking for an Unspeakable Box to purchase, and may substitute the minis with tokens during gameplay.
This game is awesome FUN! Played 4 games so far with 2 players, with the 4 different Great Old Ones. Won all of them, usually on the edge. This is good for a co-op game. Pandemic is way less balanced, quite hard with 4 players than 2. The dice can (and should) be mitigated using the stress to reroll. There are also skills that help with this. This requires strategy more than tactics. Also, saying that this game has no good replayability?! The system of combining Boss with scenario gives you 12 very different experiences already, and by choosing a different character and a random psychic card makes it even more interesting every time. Highly recommend this game to everyone liking the co-op genre. 10/10 for me.
Yeah, just with Season 2, the combinations are immense: different player counts make different characters better, and 12 combos, as you say. The expansions make it near endless variability.
I'm definitely a fan of this game. I've played it four times now and have won it three times. The first time, we misplayed it a little bit, some of it benefited us, some benefited the monsters so I think it all balanced out. :) I do agree about the size of the tiles, it would have been nice if they were a little larger. However, I'm betting this was designed to work with CMON's upcoming Teburu system and maybe the size was required for that.
Really good review. Myself love the game, but understand all the issues Zee mentioned. The game is just plain fun though, so I do not mind to much. CDmD fits a good spot in my game collection.
One of my favorite games. I play all the time with 2 heros and works perfectly. Yes luck is part of the game....but the atmosphere justifies it. I don't mind getting my butt kicked when the game is 2 hours MAX. I would say if you like mansions or madness...it plays like the last hour of mansions. Straight action and craziness.
Thanks a lot good review!!! my final opinion is 7.5 out of 10. Is well done, nice mins and the story / atmosphere is cool... I agree to the fact that to "win" you really need 4 characters that is not bad, but I lose many session to try to win in solo...
Still wrecking the mythos in 2021 almost 2022 and the majority of my games have been two players. Me and the wife have lost one to two games playing two players, although our sanity is typically about 4-2 from being game over and sometimes one of us may die we win just about every game we play and it’s definitely a challenge to do so. With more people it gets a little easier imo.
Yep i love the game and great review. All valid points, the tiles are small and can become cluttered with all the minis and tokens but i somehow enjoyed that just added to the madness. The game is very difficult with just two characters. 3 and up probably for an easier game. Abso love the art and theme of the game. The rule book was also very well put together did kinda leave out some stuff but wont be an issue for anyone whos played a mini game before. Really nice flow of gameplay including with newer to tabletop gaming players.
So many games have that problem of the spaces not being able to accomodate the miniatures. Why is it considered a virtue for the minis of every game to be huge? I'd be happier with smaller miniatures that I can fit on the board.
Most of the players don't like the scale that is lower than 28mm. However I think that a game like Joan of Arc has the perfect scale to put everything on the table and the miniatures are still detailed and well made.
Guess I am not completely in sync with Zee on this one. Yeah the tiles does seem small, when you have a horde of minis on them, but don't most games with a lot minis suffer from this? Have you seen the abominations, which are the monster bases of Mansion of Madness? This only really becomes a problem towards the end of a game, when the Elder One comes out and everything is close to climax anyway. Not a big issue for me, but I am also used to playing a ton of Zombicide with massive hordes of minis piling up everywhere. Also if the tiles where bigger in this game, you would have to play on the floor with some of the set-ups. :) I am actually more annoyed with the lack of the 'end of turn' sequence on the player boards. Zee must have had some proper rough games with only 2 players, because it is not my experience at all. I played four 2-player games and four 3-player games and my record is 6 wins and 2 losses. Both losses as 3-player games against the nasty Black Goat and his constant Dark young spawns. It nearly always comes down to the very last roll and also the heroic sacrifice of one or more investigators, but 2-player is definitely very possible and not broken at all. The tactics and strategy are what to be expected of a dice chucker. You still have to take advantage of the different skills in your party and be efficient disrupting the ritual and get the right punches in on the Elder One, when it is out. This is a fun and simple dice chucker, not a crunchy euro optimization drill. I love that Zee mentions the ease of play and great flow of the game, because thats the main reason I am gonna play this a lot. Its easy to set-up, it is easy to teach and the flow is exceptionel. Also the build up during the game with the climax of trying to get the last punches in on the big one feels like one big great bossfight. This is a stupid fun dice chucker and I love it.
Jonezy1977 I’m on the fence with this one for a few reasons maybe you could help me out, for one it’s pretty pricey but my main concern is,is it a easy game to learn for someone who is fairly new to these types of board games, are there a lot of complicated rules and things to remember? One thing that is annoying to me is to have to stop every five minutes to check the rules and then try to make sense of it all while trying to play the game hopefully this is not one of those because it looks really cool
@@rcreviews9894 I think is a fairly straight forward game. You have of course all the abilities to keep track of, from enemies and from your investigators, but the overall structure is nice and simple.
I lost 2 games tonight. still had so much more fun. you need to play some more scenarios, i find there are plenty of strategy in some of the episodes. i think this game is fun whether your winning or losing.
Good review, DMD is a game that I really like and my wife loves this too, I just don't seem to 'love' the game as much as other people do, and would probably prefer to play Arkham LCG or Mansions of madness, its a worthy add to anyone's collection if you can get past the annoyance of not having the stretch goal box (which I have). Its great for a quick game in the evening and its very easy for someone else to join who has not played this before. We have played 3 player games and beaten the game every time, I think this depends on what elder/dark one you use, I have not used Black goat yet but I have heard that this one is a nasty piece of work, but your right if the dice don't go your way I can see this turning bad for the players pretty quick. I can't say that I have had any issues getting all the minis on a tile.
50/50 on 2 player games. I love how the game drags you to extremes. Out of all CMON co-op games, this one has finally set the difficulty level properly. I love it, my favorite co-op for 2019.
Been trying the Fear of the Uknown TTS demo version. My biggest concerns from only one and a half play is that I don't know that there are many decisions to make in the game, and rerolling 1 die feels bad to me :P But I love everything else about it so far. The rules are so simple! I looked at my board game collection and I don't think any of my other games with the exception of Sushi Go, Hanamikoji and Ra is this easy to teach. And it plays quickly. And you feel very powerful, and the insanity progression is wonderfully done. I suspect this is a fantastic gateway game. Or a solo game. You won't have much trouble putting this on the table after not having played it for some time.
The small tile size is the only thing that really bugged me. I also wish the miniatures came painted. I would have paid extra for it, but that's whatever. The small tiles was really weird once you had like 13 miniatures crammed onto the smallest one. If the bad guys didn't follow you, it wouldn't have been so bad. Outside of that, this game is amazing, I think. My favorite part is you are allowed to die in it and still win. So if Cthulhu is out and your character has gone to the brink of death via madness, just plow ahead at him and hit him with everything you got. Sure, you'll die, but that just further enhances the grim and dark world of Lovecraft.
4 characters is definitely the sweet spot in my plays, i've played solo with 4 characters many times without issue, the game is hard and punishing but that is what i like about it. The storage solution is fantastic, picking a boss box then pairing it with a chapter box is very good design. The game is very streamlined to the point some things don't make sense, such as shooting 2 tiles away and hitting monsters with no line of sight as they are in a basement around corners etc... and yes the tiles are rediculously small... i'm putting that down to CMON cutting costs and just being cheap. The game still deserves an 8.4 even with those flaws as its just fun to play and that is whats important at the end of the day.
Played this at a friends, love eldritch horror and zombicide (own both) but this fell flat for me. Im ok with randomness and losing, but i love a bit more flavour on why we lost or succumbed to an old one. Dice chucking is also more satisfying in Zombicide. I wouldn’t recommend this for people who own either of those games.
Thanks Zee! Although I'm a huge fan of Mythos games, I will let this one pass. I was already on the fance, tbh, and this would never get a good space next to Cthulhu Wars, Evil High Priest and Arkham/Eldritch Horror
played 3 games, won 2, and the one time we lost one of my friends ran into 3 cultists with no stress to spare and a couple of wounds already. so far game didn't feel difficult at all, if one thing games too easy for right now. honestly not bothered from the tile size although they are objectively too little - only when the elder one came into the board. my main "issue" (which for me is actually pro) is that the cthulhu theme doesn't come through at all, it could have been literally anything. since I couldn't care less, I'm ok with it but folks I played with, who read quite a few material books, pointed that out. love the game, makes everybody laugh and cheer at the table. I regret not pledging for the expansions and stuff, but as I said I'm so not interested in the cthulhu theme I just bought it for my friends who I knew loved the big boi and totally fell in love with it. my biggest surprise of 2019 and one of my favorite games period
Great review Zee! Agree with just about everything. I would add that the Lovecraft feel is missing and the Cthulhu theme was just tacked on a premade dungeon crawler. Great minis though!
Weird that you thought 4 characters are needed. Since the game scales with players (the baddies get an equal number of turns as the characters) it seems to work pretty well. Played with three and worked great. Also felt the stress mechanics mitigated the luck pretty well. I like this better than Arkham Horror.
I'm not sure how it gets more difficult with fewer players works either. The only thing I can think of is more characters means more abilities. Maybe you can cover more area with more characters?
The more characters in the game, the less damage and insanity each character takes. Because the game kind of has a finite number of turns, if two pcharactets are in the game, that’s twice the number of turns to lose health and sanity.
Hmmm... must be more acute at two players. We played with three and while there was good game tension we won and never felt like we needed another player. Just seems like more players would move the ritual along even more quickly so seems balanced.
I feel the scalability issue is based on the abilities of the characters and their strengths and weaknesses, not the difficulty of the game itself. Certain characters thrive on the ability to interact with other characters and are better at high player counts while other characters are more autonomous and don’t need that interaction. Characters with healing or strength in moving baddies around fall into the former while characters with range or arcane mastery naturally hit harder so fall into the latter.
In my experience we didn’t get through the discovery decks in one play. When the same scenario hit the table I enjoyed learning more about the story behind the scenario as we saw discovery cards we didn’t the first time.
The tile size is fine, yea would be nice to be a bit bigger but monsters don't stay around too long and if you play past the first episode you might need to play on the floor if the tiles were bigger.
The size of the tiles are great. If they were larger the game „board“ would not fit my game table. Solution? Smaller minis! That is of course a no-go for CMON.
Hmm. Seems like if your game mechanic involves dragging mobs of minis around with you, then every room needs to be a small arena. No closets. It is bad design, you are right about that for sure. I do like the look of it aside from that. But I'm already pretty heavily invested in the Arkham Card Game and Eldritch Horror. I just don't need another Lovecraftian co-op besides Mansions.
I’ve played with 2 characters every game. Played the first 5 episodes and one of them twice. I’m at a 50% win ratio and it’s always close. It’s fair with 2 characters.
Brettspielblog.net - Brettspiele im Test yep. Your characters get much more powerful with double the items. And they move out of danger faster since they move every other turn. It self balances.
I've only played it once as solo controlling 2 characters. I didn't win but I was a turn away. I felt that my strategic choices of who I decided would focus on killing and who I decided would go for objectives really played an important role. I'm a little surprised about his take on player count and strategy but I'd need to play it more and he was honest about saying that it might just be an issue he had.
In a way I am happy that Zee being a great fan of The Others doesnt like so much Death May Die, beacuse I already own a lot of material of The Others! (Still waiting your top 20-1 of this year)
I'm kinda glad to hear this mixed review of Zee. I was on the fence when the KS hit because I already have so many Lovecraft games and the art & thematic style (action) of this one did not suit my style. Lovecraft's stories themselves are too subtle, while this Cthulhu: DMD is too action-oriented. FFG's Arkham Files games hit the right note between suspense and action. Besides, CMON has a rep for giving you more than your money's worth on KS, but their games are hollowed out when they hit retail, so I certainly was not going to pick up this game in retail. Sadly, their KS also just didn't hit the right mark for me. The difficulty and randomness I can house rule but the tone and content (retail) is just not enough in the end. So, yeah, I'm glad I put my money on Cultistorm and eagerly await for it to arrive in 2020.
It really isn't a problem. Cthulhu is the biggest, and you just put him off to the side of the tile. Everyone else will fit in any space, with very rare exceptions. The thing is, no tile is ever surrounded fully, like they would be in Mansions of Madness sometimes, so there is always extra space. They could have made them a little bigger, but there would have always been a scenario that they wouldn't fit, even if doubled in size, and at that point the table layout would be more annoying.
Zee, gotta say I you really hit the nail on the head and I agree with almost everything you said. The only place we differ is on the number of players required. I have only played this two player (one character each) and we have about a 50% win rate. Having said that, it all comes down to character choices. Some of the characters are awful at two players, but would be great at four or more. Two player games require hand-picked characters if you want a chance for the win (IMO).
Agreed, which is why I think the setup order is the way it is. You can pick your characters after everything else is laid out, like The Others after the Sin player is setup.
I think I am in the same boat as you. Looks cool, would LOVE to try, but in the end with all the Zcide I have (Green Horde, Invader, Dark Side), i feel like I'll just stick with what I have... for at least the next 15min...
My favorite game of 2019, even though I agree on most points in this review. Except for the point that the tiles are too small, yes they are technically small but I wouldnt want them to be any bigger. The game takes up alot of table space as it is, and it would be impossible for us to play it here on my "small" table if the tiles or boards were any bigger. Of course the miniatures dont fit many times and we just put the miniatures around the tile or in any way as long as we know where they are technically, which in my opinion enhances the thematic chaos and nature that this game has :D
Wow, the price of this one is staggering! 110EUR?! I guess those miniatures don't come cheap.. A word to game designers; price reduction > big miniatures
You should probably talk to game publishers, since they make these decisions. I'd also look at how much the Kickstarter made, they might be happy with the high price.
@@JerreMuesli the words of the poor.. Oh well. Thank god you never heard of inflation and charging the rise of production cost. Stay in your echo chamber.
@@lok6314define "soon" because a year later and this is still expensive. And "every" hobby is expensive? There's no such thing as a cheap hobby on planet earth, huh?
you have to be in the right frame of mind to play this game... your going to lose.. badly.. and have fun while doing so.. a lot of laughs.. so.. that is the way to look at this. it is called 'death may die' after all..
Zee, would you consider to review it again, since it is #21 on your best of all time list(2022)?
Yeah I’m watching this review for the first time to see if I wanted to buy it. I’m sitting here like “what is he talking about? I thought he loved this game?!” Lol
Yeah to be fair I don't think I've reread the rulebook since I bought it but I play solo a lot with this game. I always run 4 characters. I do that with Eldridge horror and many other games as well.
Not all of the tiles are that single square tile. There's only a few of those. And anyway that's kind of thematic. These guys are supposed to be older gods. If you see any of the posters or pictures of them they're literally bigger than a house. So I think thematically overruning the square works.
And his #3 as of 2024!
I have played this with my significant other a good number of times. We started playing one character each, but with only 2 characters it was too random for us. Since then, we've been playing with two characters each and it's been a lot of fun. Where the game shines most in our opinion is that the game endings are often close calls, generating many epic moments through our sessions.
Amazing production value on this vid, love the effects and text overlay. Plus Zee you have a great sense of humour which makes these vids dead easy to watch.
Agree! He probably has my favorite style of organized reviews.
I know this review is old, but how is this game now Zee's #21 game of all time?
It clearly grew on him over time. Im going back and watching this now and was very surprised by his old review.
For me, as a fan of "eldest sign", and the Cthulhu theme, I saw this as a logical step forward in the "move to a room, chuck some dice, pass or fail" with a story line wrapper. I love the replayability having gone "all-in" on the KS (crazy amount of monsters, 40 investigators, half a dozen big baddies and a dozen episodes to choose from). Have had no issues playing with 2 characters, winning 3/2 so far. Totally loving this game with friends and solo. Thanks for the review. It's a fair rating given the concerns raised, albeit not everyone would agree but that's what reviewed are about right, opinions 😉.
Glad to see it reviewed. Thanks for your continued dedication and honesty 😁
This game is action from the start. There is no slow sluggish climb here. Evdry round and move counts. Love it!
Played this game last week for the first time and loved it. Your review really nails it though. We played 2 players and lost horribly, but I still had a fantastic time because I DO value atmosphere highly, and this delivered on that in spades. I loved the characters, loved the minis, and loved the cinematic atmosphere.
I've been a big fan of The Dice Tower for maybe 6 years now, but specially big fan of Zee! Loved watching some interview in spanish he did a few years back, since I live in Mexico. Saludos Zee! Sigue haciendo un buen trabajo, un abrazo!
Hey there, buddy! Just watching a review and decided to read a few comments, and look who I found... : )
@@winstonhammonds3314 hey my friend!! I know. This little board game world hehe
the cramped board was also my first issue... just went to a copycenter and made enlarged board pieces... i agree they should have done it themselves, but it was a practical fix.
Great review as always, Zee. And nice job with the effects on the video! Someone is leveling up!
Really been waiting to see what you think about this - even though I already have the Kickstarter and have played. I disagree with parts of the review but I always find you fair and comprehensive. I’ve played and won with two players although it is definitely difficult. So I think you CAN play with fewer than four but you do have to be aggressive and maximize your turns. I LOVE the cinematic/thematic nature of the game and I find it quite easy to teach which is nice for a Cthulhu game. Definitely more for fans of Zombicide than, say, Eldritch Horror. Right on the mark in terms of the criticism of the map tile size. It’s a shame although it’s just a minor negative for me. Considering the size and number of miniatures I can only imagine how big the tiles - and therefore the box! - would have to be to address this. I’m OK with the cluttered table since I enjoy the game.
For sure a lot of luck involved although I feel that’s the case with many Cthulhu games, honestly. Kind of a nice, frantic, tactical alternative to something like Mansions of Madness in my book. Definitely looking forward to a lot more scenario and Elder God battles in the future.
No matter what, always enjoy your work and looking forward to (hopefully) meeting you at DT West next month!
Great review! Made me really understand the game and the pros and cons without being unfair
Thanks for this clear headed review Zee!
I think this is one where the Kickstarter version's glut of additional content really helps - normally it is "how will I ever play all this?" but as it is so modular re: the Old Ones, i've already used quite a lot of the additional material and feel I will easily see all of it in a reasonable amount of time. Normally I'm not bothered about not having Kickstarter additions, but in this one I'm VERY glad I went and KSed it.
Is there any hope that Cmon would be convinced to redo the tiles in larger size and sell separately, like the extra tiles for zombicide?
I've waited with bated breath, happy to see this review, and finish up the top 100!
Good review as always. This is game is coming off my want list.
I absolutely love this game. There’s tons of strategy and tactics in this game. I agree with a lot of Zee’s comments such as the luck factor, the need for three or more players and the small tiles. But for me this great is amazing. It had tons of strategy and tactics and I’ve been able to win by the skin of my teeth.
Those were like perfect first couple of rolls for illustrating the game ;)
Favorite game of 2019
this
I agree on the size of the tiles. Often we have overflow lol.
As for difficulty, I most often play with 2 and have only lost a couple of times. If anything I think the game is a little on the easy side. My experience has been more players make it more difficult.
I have also had a different experience with the dice chucking. I love the stress for rerolls, and have not gotten a “swingy” feeling from the mechanics.
It’s not for everyone, but it certainly is for me. Have played 14 times so far with no end in site lol. Thanks for the review!
Yeah, I've played 4 times with 2, and we're 3-1 so far. You get more discovery cards with 2, so that's how it scales. I also find it quite strategic, but the dice rolling is exciting in this game, too. I love euro games more, usually.
I don't think the tiles are a problem at all. I've played 6 times total, and just a few times we've had Cthulhu off to the side of a tile that's too small. That's not a big deal.
I watched the play through of this, and I was pretty surprised at the responses to it. This is in my top 10 of the year, and the rest are mostly euro-games.
*no end in sight
It’s interesting that the “you can just lose” aspect was such a negative, considering you like Pandemic so much because I feel the same way about that game. Maybe I’m just a scrub though.
I’ve been waiting for a while for this xD
Probably my favorite or second favorite game of 2019. Just plain fun. Just fine with two, 50% win rate or so, depending on some baddies in the expansions can be brutal. Quite a few close endings too.
Awesome to hear. Haven't played this one yet. Eric Lang does not disappoint.
Yeah, it's great with 2. You get more abilities from the cards.
I’ve tried variants where spending a stress means I can pick the side (which made it too easy) and have settled on “spend 1 to reroll as usual, spend 2 to pick the side”. That makes the game more fair I’ve found, and allows some strategy.
Excellent review!
I watched a playthrough of this game and was also surprised by how quickly the board became overcrowded. I still purchased the game, including season 2 and still looking for an Unspeakable Box to purchase, and may substitute the minis with tokens during gameplay.
This game is awesome FUN! Played 4 games so far with 2 players, with the 4 different Great Old Ones. Won all of them, usually on the edge. This is good for a co-op game.
Pandemic is way less balanced, quite hard with 4 players than 2.
The dice can (and should) be mitigated using the stress to reroll. There are also skills that help with this. This requires strategy more than tactics.
Also, saying that this game has no good replayability?! The system of combining Boss with scenario gives you 12 very different experiences already, and by choosing a different character and a random psychic card makes it even more interesting every time.
Highly recommend this game to everyone liking the co-op genre. 10/10 for me.
Yeah, just with Season 2, the combinations are immense: different player counts make different characters better, and 12 combos, as you say. The expansions make it near endless variability.
if your investigator is in the same room as Cthulhu... you got more than the size of the tile to worry about.. lol😱
I'm definitely a fan of this game. I've played it four times now and have won it three times. The first time, we misplayed it a little bit, some of it benefited us, some benefited the monsters so I think it all balanced out. :)
I do agree about the size of the tiles, it would have been nice if they were a little larger. However, I'm betting this was designed to work with CMON's upcoming Teburu system and maybe the size was required for that.
What would you recommend for a group of 5, looking for a coop or semi coop strategy game.
Really good review. Myself love the game, but understand all the issues Zee mentioned. The game is just plain fun though, so I do not mind to much. CDmD fits a good spot in my game collection.
One of my favorite games. I play all the time with 2 heros and works perfectly. Yes luck is part of the game....but the atmosphere justifies it. I don't mind getting my butt kicked when the game is 2 hours MAX.
I would say if you like mansions or madness...it plays like the last hour of mansions. Straight action and craziness.
OK, but what about the 3-foot tall Cthulhu statuette that becomes the board in the final scenario? The game is not complete without it.
Thanks a lot good review!!! my final opinion is 7.5 out of 10. Is well done, nice mins and the story / atmosphere is cool... I agree to the fact that to "win" you really need 4 characters that is not bad, but I lose many session to try to win in solo...
my party & I are thinking about getting this or Eldritch Horror, we are new to the tabletop gaming hobby, wich one would you recomend?
Still wrecking the mythos in 2021 almost 2022 and the majority of my games have been two players. Me and the wife have lost one to two games playing two players, although our sanity is typically about 4-2 from being game over and sometimes one of us may die we win just about every game we play and it’s definitely a challenge to do so. With more people it gets a little easier imo.
When will Zee review Hellyboy board games? I'd love to hear his views
Totally agree. Actually preferred 'The Others' by CMON which is similar - but easier to control sanity etc.
Yep i love the game and great review. All valid points, the tiles are small and can become cluttered with all the minis and tokens but i somehow enjoyed that just added to the madness. The game is very difficult with just two characters. 3 and up probably for an easier game. Abso love the art and theme of the game. The rule book was also very well put together did kinda leave out some stuff but wont be an issue for anyone whos played a mini game before. Really nice flow of gameplay including with newer to tabletop gaming players.
So many games have that problem of the spaces not being able to accomodate the miniatures. Why is it considered a virtue for the minis of every game to be huge? I'd be happier with smaller miniatures that I can fit on the board.
Most of the players don't like the scale that is lower than 28mm. However I think that a game like Joan of Arc has the perfect scale to put everything on the table and the miniatures are still detailed and well made.
I find the player-count balance is decent. It is mechanically self-scaling, other than the ability to spread out more with more players.
I think the appeal is how it differs dramatically from the FFG Arkham Files games. Check it out if you like that theme but find those games “slow.”
Guess I am not completely in sync with Zee on this one.
Yeah the tiles does seem small, when you have a horde of minis on them, but don't most games with a lot minis suffer from this? Have you seen the abominations, which are the monster bases of Mansion of Madness? This only really becomes a problem towards the end of a game, when the Elder One comes out and everything is close to climax anyway. Not a big issue for me, but I am also used to playing a ton of Zombicide with massive hordes of minis piling up everywhere. Also if the tiles where bigger in this game, you would have to play on the floor with some of the set-ups. :) I am actually more annoyed with the lack of the 'end of turn' sequence on the player boards.
Zee must have had some proper rough games with only 2 players, because it is not my experience at all. I played four 2-player games and four 3-player games and my record is 6 wins and 2 losses. Both losses as 3-player games against the nasty Black Goat and his constant Dark young spawns. It nearly always comes down to the very last roll and also the heroic sacrifice of one or more investigators, but 2-player is definitely very possible and not broken at all.
The tactics and strategy are what to be expected of a dice chucker. You still have to take advantage of the different skills in your party and be efficient disrupting the ritual and get the right punches in on the Elder One, when it is out. This is a fun and simple dice chucker, not a crunchy euro optimization drill.
I love that Zee mentions the ease of play and great flow of the game, because thats the main reason I am gonna play this a lot. Its easy to set-up, it is easy to teach and the flow is exceptionel. Also the build up during the game with the climax of trying to get the last punches in on the big one feels like one big great bossfight.
This is a stupid fun dice chucker and I love it.
Jonezy1977 I’m on the fence with this one for a few reasons maybe you could help me out, for one it’s pretty pricey but my main concern is,is it a easy game to learn for someone who is fairly new to these types of board games, are there a lot of complicated rules and things to remember? One thing that is annoying to me is to have to stop every five minutes to check the rules and then try to make sense of it all while trying to play the game hopefully this is not one of those because it looks really cool
@@rcreviews9894 I think is a fairly straight forward game. You have of course all the abilities to keep track of, from enemies and from your investigators, but the overall structure is nice and simple.
Love the shows. Some days Zee is upbeat and hilarious and some days he is as dry as my eighth grade biology teacher.
9:23.....😞 but glad you're making the video👍🙏 ......and did you continue playing and did it grow on you?
The cover is Amon from Starcraft 2
Enjoy this game I totally agree with the tile sizes. Come on CMON you couldn't spare the extra expense and produce larger tiles?
Fair criticisms. The tiles are definitely waaaaay too small. I do enjoy the game overall though, and I’m not bothered by the dice.
The tiles aren't too small Zee - the minis are too big! ;) Would have been a great 15mm game.
I"ve beaten the first 3 scenarios with 2 so far. I think some are easier with more though.
I agree, the tiles are waaaaayyyyy too small!
"My biggest sunk cost of 2019."
I lost 2 games tonight. still had so much more fun. you need to play some more scenarios, i find there are plenty of strategy in some of the episodes. i think this game is fun whether your winning or losing.
Good review, DMD is a game that I really like and my wife loves this too, I just don't seem to 'love' the game as much as other people do, and would probably prefer to play Arkham LCG or Mansions of madness, its a worthy add to anyone's collection if you can get past the annoyance of not having the stretch goal box (which I have). Its great for a quick game in the evening and its very easy for someone else to join who has not played this before.
We have played 3 player games and beaten the game every time, I think this depends on what elder/dark one you use, I have not used Black goat yet but I have heard that this one is a nasty piece of work, but your right if the dice don't go your way I can see this turning bad for the players pretty quick. I can't say that I have had any issues getting all the minis on a tile.
50/50 on 2 player games. I love how the game drags you to extremes. Out of all CMON co-op games, this one has finally set the difficulty level properly. I love it, my favorite co-op for 2019.
So when you say the difficulty on the single player was right, did you go with Zee's recommendation or did you go with the rules?
Been trying the Fear of the Uknown TTS demo version.
My biggest concerns from only one and a half play is that I don't know that there are many decisions to make in the game, and rerolling 1 die feels bad to me :P
But I love everything else about it so far. The rules are so simple! I looked at my board game collection and I don't think any of my other games with the exception of Sushi Go, Hanamikoji and Ra is this easy to teach. And it plays quickly. And you feel very powerful, and the insanity progression is wonderfully done.
I suspect this is a fantastic gateway game. Or a solo game. You won't have much trouble putting this on the table after not having played it for some time.
I played this last week and it is awesome.
Can you review the two elder one pleas
The small tile size is the only thing that really bugged me. I also wish the miniatures came painted. I would have paid extra for it, but that's whatever. The small tiles was really weird once you had like 13 miniatures crammed onto the smallest one. If the bad guys didn't follow you, it wouldn't have been so bad. Outside of that, this game is amazing, I think. My favorite part is you are allowed to die in it and still win. So if Cthulhu is out and your character has gone to the brink of death via madness, just plow ahead at him and hit him with everything you got. Sure, you'll die, but that just further enhances the grim and dark world of Lovecraft.
That's a lot of dice rolling....
Good review, man. Keep up the good work.
no comments on the second season ... just the core??
4 characters is definitely the sweet spot in my plays, i've played solo with 4 characters many times without issue, the game is hard and punishing but that is what i like about it. The storage solution is fantastic, picking a boss box then pairing it with a chapter box is very good design. The game is very streamlined to the point some things don't make sense, such as shooting 2 tiles away and hitting monsters with no line of sight as they are in a basement around corners etc... and yes the tiles are rediculously small... i'm putting that down to CMON cutting costs and just being cheap. The game still deserves an 8.4 even with those flaws as its just fun to play and that is whats important at the end of the day.
Played this at a friends, love eldritch horror and zombicide (own both) but this fell flat for me. Im ok with randomness and losing, but i love a bit more flavour on why we lost or succumbed to an old one. Dice chucking is also more satisfying in Zombicide. I wouldn’t recommend this for people who own either of those games.
Thanks Zee! Although I'm a huge fan of Mythos games, I will let this one pass. I was already on the fance, tbh, and this would never get a good space next to Cthulhu Wars, Evil High Priest and Arkham/Eldritch Horror
I've played solo with Rasputin as one of my characters and I've won easily. I think some of characters are clearly better than others.
played 3 games, won 2, and the one time we lost one of my friends ran into 3 cultists with no stress to spare and a couple of wounds already. so far game didn't feel difficult at all, if one thing games too easy for right now. honestly not bothered from the tile size although they are objectively too little - only when the elder one came into the board. my main "issue" (which for me is actually pro) is that the cthulhu theme doesn't come through at all, it could have been literally anything. since I couldn't care less, I'm ok with it but folks I played with, who read quite a few material books, pointed that out. love the game, makes everybody laugh and cheer at the table. I regret not pledging for the expansions and stuff, but as I said I'm so not interested in the cthulhu theme I just bought it for my friends who I knew loved the big boi and totally fell in love with it. my biggest surprise of 2019 and one of my favorite games period
Great review Zee! Agree with just about everything. I would add that the Lovecraft feel is missing and the Cthulhu theme was just tacked on a premade dungeon crawler. Great minis though!
Weird that you thought 4 characters are needed. Since the game scales with players (the baddies get an equal number of turns as the characters) it seems to work pretty well. Played with three and worked great. Also felt the stress mechanics mitigated the luck pretty well. I like this better than Arkham Horror.
I'm not sure how it gets more difficult with fewer players works either. The only thing I can think of is more characters means more abilities.
Maybe you can cover more area with more characters?
The more characters in the game, the less damage and insanity each character takes. Because the game kind of has a finite number of turns, if two pcharactets are in the game, that’s twice the number of turns to lose health and sanity.
Hmmm... must be more acute at two players. We played with three and while there was good game tension we won and never felt like we needed another player. Just seems like more players would move the ritual along even more quickly so seems balanced.
I feel the scalability issue is based on the abilities of the characters and their strengths and weaknesses, not the difficulty of the game itself. Certain characters thrive on the ability to interact with other characters and are better at high player counts while other characters are more autonomous and don’t need that interaction. Characters with healing or strength in moving baddies around fall into the former while characters with range or arcane mastery naturally hit harder so fall into the latter.
You could be right. We had the crazy little girl and she is a monster slaying machine.
So they took the Arkham Horror LCG and made a boardgame version of it.
Is it limited on the replay ability? Or can you replay the scenario combinations without losing something by having experienced it before?
In my experience we didn’t get through the discovery decks in one play. When the same scenario hit the table I enjoyed learning more about the story behind the scenario as we saw discovery cards we didn’t the first time.
The tile size is fine, yea would be nice to be a bit bigger but monsters don't stay around too long and if you play past the first episode you might need to play on the floor if the tiles were bigger.
This kinda looks like Zombcide, Nemesis and Unfathomable rolled into one
How do 2 talented designers make a game that is a move and roll game?
The size of the tiles are great. If they were larger the game „board“ would not fit my game table. Solution? Smaller minis! That is of course a no-go for CMON.
Hmm. Seems like if your game mechanic involves dragging mobs of minis around with you, then every room needs to be a small arena. No closets. It is bad design, you are right about that for sure. I do like the look of it aside from that. But I'm already pretty heavily invested in the Arkham Card Game and Eldritch Horror. I just don't need another Lovecraftian co-op besides Mansions.
I’ve played with 2 characters every game. Played the first 5 episodes and one of them twice. I’m at a 50% win ratio and it’s always close. It’s fair with 2 characters.
Justin Gibbons in fact impound never play it with more than 3. too much downtime and to few items you can get.
Brettspielblog.net - Brettspiele im Test yep. Your characters get much more powerful with double the items. And they move out of danger faster since they move every other turn. It self balances.
I've only played it once as solo controlling 2 characters. I didn't win but I was a turn away. I felt that my strategic choices of who I decided would focus on killing and who I decided would go for objectives really played an important role. I'm a little surprised about his take on player count and strategy but I'd need to play it more and he was honest about saying that it might just be an issue he had.
@@justingibbons8010 It self balances, but not perfectly. It's much harder at 2 and 3 is also harder than 4
Yeah, I dunno what he was talking about there.
In a way I am happy that Zee being a great fan of The Others doesnt like so much Death May Die, beacuse I already own a lot of material of The Others! (Still waiting your top 20-1 of this year)
I'm kinda glad to hear this mixed review of Zee. I was on the fence when the KS hit because I already have so many Lovecraft games and the art & thematic style (action) of this one did not suit my style. Lovecraft's stories themselves are too subtle, while this Cthulhu: DMD is too action-oriented. FFG's Arkham Files games hit the right note between suspense and action. Besides, CMON has a rep for giving you more than your money's worth on KS, but their games are hollowed out when they hit retail, so I certainly was not going to pick up this game in retail. Sadly, their KS also just didn't hit the right mark for me. The difficulty and randomness I can house rule but the tone and content (retail) is just not enough in the end. So, yeah, I'm glad I put my money on Cultistorm and eagerly await for it to arrive in 2020.
solo mode is one person playing as 2 characters. That has always felt like a weasel marketing trick.
Will C Heeyyy, why don’t you play Monopoly solo, just play the other 3 players yourself. We’ll make it a bullet point on the back
House rule#1 Room limits for characters.
This game was like made for you 😂
Cthulhu f’taghen Ia! Ia!
I have won 2/6 times, one of those were with 3 players.
I agree that solo/2 players is too hard.
The tile issue is a deal breaker for me..loathe that.
It really isn't a problem. Cthulhu is the biggest, and you just put him off to the side of the tile. Everyone else will fit in any space, with very rare exceptions. The thing is, no tile is ever surrounded fully, like they would be in Mansions of Madness sometimes, so there is always extra space. They could have made them a little bigger, but there would have always been a scenario that they wouldn't fit, even if doubled in size, and at that point the table layout would be more annoying.
Thanks! Great review. Steering away from this as luck-based dice chucking is boring...
Interesting but controversial this game has a lot of fans. I am still undecided.
It's fun. If you like games like zombicide then this is easily recommended. If you like more resource management or adventure games, maybe not.
I don't like Zombicide, but I love this.
Is the review controversial because he critiques parts of it? He gave it a Seal of Approval so he enjoyed it overall.
The rate to win with 2 players (2 characters total) is 60% so far here. ;)
I agrees with a lot of what you said, but we didn't find this game exceptionally difficult at 2 players. We consistently win at 2 players.
Zee, gotta say I you really hit the nail on the head and I agree with almost everything you said. The only place we differ is on the number of players required. I have only played this two player (one character each) and we have about a 50% win rate. Having said that, it all comes down to character choices. Some of the characters are awful at two players, but would be great at four or more. Two player games require hand-picked characters if you want a chance for the win (IMO).
Agreed, which is why I think the setup order is the way it is. You can pick your characters after everything else is laid out, like The Others after the Sin player is setup.
Yea this looks cool but I think I’ll stick with Zombicide.
I have black plague and play it solo. I'm way more interested in this game now. Little bit quicker and less grindy.
I think I am in the same boat as you. Looks cool, would LOVE to try, but in the end with all the Zcide I have (Green Horde, Invader, Dark Side), i feel like I'll just stick with what I have... for at least the next 15min...
Played with 2, first game we won :'D
Did u guys controlled 2 chars each?
Blood Rage Digital Physical Pledge is FINALLY shipping!
Loose me some Zee. I’m a zeeb.
7/10 still seemed pretty generous with those mixed feelings :P
Definitely not a game for me, I can say that much :)
Best game of 2019, just beating Hellboy because of the faster setup time.
My favorite game of 2019, even though I agree on most points in this review.
Except for the point that the tiles are too small, yes they are technically small but I wouldnt want them to be any bigger. The game takes up alot of table space as it is, and it would be impossible for us to play it here on my "small" table if the tiles or boards were any bigger.
Of course the miniatures dont fit many times and we just put the miniatures around the tile or in any way as long as we know where they are technically, which in my opinion enhances the thematic chaos and nature that this game has :D
Wow, the price of this one is staggering! 110EUR?! I guess those miniatures don't come cheap..
A word to game designers; price reduction > big miniatures
You should probably talk to game publishers, since they make these decisions. I'd also look at how much the Kickstarter made, they might be happy with the high price.
every hobby is expensive, deal with it.
100€ will be the norm anyways soon
@@lok6314 2 statements and both are bull*. Spare us your nonsense
@@JerreMuesli the words of the poor..
Oh well.
Thank god you never heard of inflation and charging the rise of production cost.
Stay in your echo chamber.
@@lok6314define "soon" because a year later and this is still expensive.
And "every" hobby is expensive? There's no such thing as a cheap hobby on planet earth, huh?
you have to be in the right frame of mind to play this game... your going to lose.. badly.. and have fun while doing so.. a lot of laughs.. so.. that is the way to look at this. it is called 'death may die' after all..
Too many minis... Price too high because of it. Pass for me.