You got an audible "wow" out of me when Ashley didn't tip over on that sharp curve. It's great to see you overcoming the government bureaucracy with engineering acumen!
I love every part of this project. We have to be sustainable and what is more sustainable than a low-powered wooden vehicle? Even rubber grows on a tree!
I own and run a bicycle repair shop out of my home. Your experiments give me so many ideas. I am genuinely impressed. Not only are you very smart, but what I'm most impressed about is your levels of patience, resolve, and emotional maturity throughout this whole journey. If you come up with a successful design (and I'm confident you will) for a plywood electric assist pedal trike, I will definitely consider buying a set of your plans. However, my woodshop's best is not the 2D computer guided wood cutter. My best wood working power tools are currently a cordless circular saw, cordless sawzall, cordless drill, cordless brad nailer, and a small high speed rotary tool. Adding a jig saw to my tool set wouldn't hurt. Once again I'm very inspired. Your videos not only are very entertaining, but also very educational.
I've seen designs where the front axle pivots around a headtube, with a negative angle, i.e. leaning forward. This will lean the entire vehicle INTO the corner when turning rather than out of the corner.
Dang, never thought of that. That's brilliant. One could cut the head tube off an old bike and weld a solid front axle. If you use 24 inch fatbike wheels, shocks won't be needed. Fewer moving parts meens easier to maintain. 😎👍
@@Taser3141 Yeah! I started trying to build one a few years back with 16" kids bike wheels but never got that far with it. You could even potentially have a whole double wishbone setup still, but then it's increasing the amount of weight that you have to pivot around that head tube, and would be quite complex. Fat tyres would be a nice solution!
Excellent! This is really becoming something 👍 For any structural parts made of plywood (especiallyif under compression or torsion), their effective strength will be multiplied if you reinforce the edges. This is why plywood boats have solid wood gunwales. You could also just slightly round them over and paint/coat them with thickened epoxy to prevent layer separation/cracking under load.
Dear Tim, Sharing it is a pleasure to Listen to your calm and clear voice and the brillant pictures! I drove a „Messerschmitt“ cabin scooter several year and some decades ago. My advice from driving that 3 wheeler, keep the front wheel Suspension! Otherwise the Impulse of a stumbling Stone may turn you over. I am looking forward to seeing your next episode! Thanks! You make may day!
That's looking really groovy! A quick material idea for you: I don't know if its common in Ireland, but here on the other side of the Irish Sea we quite often get advertising signs made from lightweight corrugated plastic boards. Heavily used in places like garden centres who want to advertise the latest season's plants for example. Once used for the advertising period these are often thrown away. Single use plastic! Aarggh! However I've intercepted a few over the years and use them for all sorts of tinkering that needs something a bit flexible, but not too floppy and also weatherproof. I even cut a couple up to make "greedy boards" for one of my allotment wheelbarrows so that I could collect more leaves in one go for leaf mold making in the Autumn. I wonder if they might be a suitable, low cost ( free ) material for making some of the body work for this vehicle? Just a thought.
@@PatrickKQ4HBDand you can get it in approx 1m square chunks along with quite a bit of square steel tubing at any abandoned construction sign. Of course, waiting for it to be abandoned is at individual discretion.
I owned a Heinkel bubble car in my youth which was the same layout, two wheels at the front and one at the back and that never showed a tendency to tip, it did understeer badly though which did surprise me, if the road was wet you could throw it on full steering lock and carry on going straight !! That was a fun little car though, got almost 60mph out of it once, bit of a hairy ride though, I wouldn't recommend it.
Well simple wooden bendy sides make it look significantly more pretty. Shame about loosing wheel but i suspect, in spite of more rigidity needed, it could lighten this i guess now single seater? (the multi people bit was mentioned as to be decided before not sure if it is still open for tinker) Tim's engineering is always excellent insight into how clever tinkers do things. I appretiate it.
Great work! A suggestion, which you may have already considered; Individually adjustable seating position for maximizing leg muscle mechanics. High knee pumping will wear you down quickly, and each person is a little taller or shorter than the next! At this stage in the process, this should be fairly easy to incorporate. I'm really impressed with your designs! Best wishes!
Great progress, Morgan got it right all those years ago. Still think the track at the front is too narrow. If you do redesign the front a few extra inches wouldn't go amiss. I remember the early homemade Cooper cars that used a motorcycle mid mounted engine used a transverse leaf spring from an old fiat 500. If you needed front suspension this might be a way forward. You could laminate up some ply and have a long structural spring that ran all the way across the front. This would act as the lower arm, and spring combined. 'Sorry for going on a bit but im enjoying what you are doing. 😊
Hope the regulations are changed. I also liked it better as a 4-wheeler. You do always seem to have innovative solutions to problems you are presented. I do realize this is just a mock up, to make sure design is sound. I am curious to see how you implement a trunk/boot. Perhaps a hatch back design, or a front trunk. If you do end up removing the front suspension, a tub with a lid could sit between the front wheels. Perhaps I am jumping to far ahead. The vehicle does need to be functional first. As always, I am looking forward to the next video.
It looks lovely!!! I hope you build a little carrier car for the railway, so that you can drive the train somewhere and then hop out, unload the car, and bike around! Of course, my sense of scale might be off; it might be faster to just pedal there!
Also I like an idea one of the other commenters had about a solid front axle under a single pivot, say a sawed off bicycle head tube. The single pivot would be angled with a negative pitch or something like that to purposely Lean the trike into corners.
It's like my three wheeler from a Franconian manufacturer... you have to lean inwards in the bend... and my 3Wheeler has also no suspention on the front weehls, 2..3 times the outwart wheel liftet, one time i fell over. Welcome to the Club :-D
As one other commented, exploring a good suspension system for the seat would make a big difference and big easy to implement. I would like to see the body sides widened and the driver non-centered to get back to allowing room for a passenger.
Even though wider seems like a better idea, the streets and back roads in his neighborhood get pretty narrow. A wider trike could be dangerous when confronted with a lorry or moterist in a hurry. My best idea (even if it's a bad one)is to put a passenger seat behind the driver (with an extra pair of pedals). Then it becomes a tandem electric assist trike!
Looks like a true Flintstone care. Excellent work, can't wait to see more of this. Living in a small country sounds nice right about now from where I'm sitting 🇺🇸 ❤️ 🇮🇪
love the creaks and groans, (some say from the driver) its looking good. I have an engineering question, with the steering linkage, would an ellipsoid shape give greater leverage on the steering thereby making the steering quicker, and preventing the rider leaning?
You could likely retain some front suspension provided travel is quite limited or perhaps a stiff anti-roll bar is added. Widening the track at the front would also be beneficial if possible. I think you may need to raise the pedal crank, looks like Ashley's heels were very close to the ground when he was pedalling.
The swing-axle-style suspension wasn’t doing any favours for his roll centre. With different wishbone lengths there’s a lot you can do to mess about with your roll centre, an anti-roll bar would be great too.
Great to watch this project progress! Since you have a quite large space over the rear wheel, you could get away with a luggage rack. It could be on an angle and might look like the ones on old street/sports cars
I think the idea is to use this for grocery shopping, so I'd think a box either side of the rear wheel would be better. Possibly over the top as well, if the gears can take the weight.
I was close! Not training wheels (which I was serious about🤦🏻♀️), but something else on the back wheel to make it more stable. I'm understanding more than I thought!
What a cute vehicle you’ve made, Tim! You’re always way ahead but if you have no suspension in front you might take advantage and tip those front wheels a little bit to give a slightly wider stance. Better handling , and perhaps a little more strength since the cornering force is now more in axis. Also , I’ve made lots of surprisingly strong structures out of 1/8 inch ply with some solid wood going around the edges. Perhaps something like that will help you reduce weight while still getting the strength you need. Looking good !
I personally like the recumbent trike look (besides the feet for a bumper), and Im in the process of making a gokart with that layout using a longer wheelbase. The reclined sitting position allows for a low profile so the car can be small yet retain proportions.
Your center of gravity for and aft not up and down, is towards the rear single wheel, which has no torsion support. Two ideas used in the past are firstly move your seat close or over the front axial or mount the two wheel axial at the rear. Good luck.
Hi Tim, love your experiments, I’m currently researching Cyclekarts which are more popular in America, but we’re starting to catch up in the UK👍. I’ve recently noticed that some of the plans available include an electric three wheeler unit… but sadly no pedal assistance! Sp presumably ok for the more lazy of us! Excluding you obviously, I wonder sometimes where you’re getting your energy from? Must be Sandra’s home cooking and that clean fresh air! BW … Mark
A cycle car in the Uk would be limited to 28KPH if electric unless you want to put it through the MSV test www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/motorcycle-single-vehicle-approval. Somewhat easier than the similar test for 4 wheel home built cars. You could then mount a moped or small bike engine to drive the back wheel and achieve some real speeds.
You could still create a suspension in the front that is dependent vs independent, where the suspension travels in a guided manner, both sides together, if you find you wish to further smoothen it. 😊 As always, such wonderful content!
I was thinking of building some kind of "lawn kart" that only goes about 5-10km/h and is maybe designed like an old covered wagon minus the horse. kind of like a moving shed! would be so handy
👍👌👏 Well done, Sir. Hope that the government will allow pedal cars with 4 wheels in Ireland soon. 2) Your 3wheel pedal car is already driving pretty good. Congratulations! 🎉 Please kindly allow me to suggest that you use a much sturdier wheel/rim for the back. Maybe one from a moped. Or maybe fabricobble 2 bicycle wheels together. This would at least be lighter than a moped wheel. 3) Do I remember correctly that you wanted to build a 2seater pedal car originally? Or did I get something wrong? Anyway, I wish you, that the end result will sell well (as a kit). Thanks a lot for making teaching explaining recording editing uploading and sharing. Best regards luck and especially health to all involved people.
I used to have a meserchmitt kr201 bubble car same basic layout front suspension swinging arm with rubber torsion suspension. . Same at back . Never had problem with bends
I'm no engineer, but I would recommend keeping the front suspension to prolong the life of the parts in your steering, this is because shock absorbers are for keeping the parts in a car from knocking about. in addition to comfort.
I understand the thought process, but I expect that the thick bike tires should add enough cushion prevent that sort of damage! Plenty of bikes do just fine without any added suspension at all on much thinner wheels, although keeping the rear suspension is a smart idea to offset the weight of the car on the single wheel and knock out the nasty jolts. At *most* you could consider some sort of limited axle twist suspension to help with hitting a deep pothole on one side, but that sounds like a version 2.0 kind of concern, especially on a "tall central spine" bodyplan like this. The outer supports should be plenty to handle that torsion.
Car is looking great. If/when you add the electric motor the battery will add additional weight so if you mount it below or as near to the center of gravity as you can it might add to the stability of the car. What kind of brakes will you be using?
While thinking on how to make a more stable Reliant Robin, I thought of putting the single front wheel behind a trailing swing arm, much as a motorcycle's rear wheel, and mounting the arm on a vertical pivot, such that it swings right for left turns, and left for right turns. This would place the single front wheel toward the outside of the car on turns. You could try something similar, though your two swing arms would form a triangle, forcing the single rear wheel to rotate outward for tracking the rear of the trike, while moving to support the outside of the trike in turns. Of course, you would have to transition to front wheel chain drive, but you could keep the rear wheel electric drive.
Since you have a single back wheel, you possibly could use one of those diy bike to e-bike conversion kits…they usually end up with a front hub driven wheel they provide of what ever size needed……. just a thought :)
I remember making a crude version of this back in the 1980's (as a little boy) and had the same issue with roll-over on fast cornering. It was suggested that I put a camber on the two front wheels, nothing too drastic but enough of an angle similar to the camber on wheelchairs used for disabled racing and other sports (Olympics). This fixed the issue, so I wonder if it will work for your trusty steed? lol
when you get to making the final one, I still think you could use carbon fibre rods under compression to stiffen everything up with much less weight than ply- They are cheap and cheerful!
Carbon fibre is very stiff but can not store much energy. Bamboo has similar strength to weight to carbon fibre, but with yield at failure of 1.5% for carbon epoxy compared to 12% for bamboo, makes bamboo far tougher and capable of around 100x more energy storage and retrieval, especially when it's flexural strength and stiffness is the objective, as its density of around 1/3 of carbon composite gives 9x the specific strength and stiffness in a leaf lamination and vastly exceeds the performance of carbon composite in toughness, and added bonus far better high frequency dampening qualities
so youre suggesting cutting bamboo, then creating a leaf lamination??? That seems like lots of work. I'm not making this contraption, but I do believe your 'benefits' seem theoretical and complex when compared to simply designing the structure to use carbon fibre rods as strategic light-weight stiffeners that could be easily replaced if they failed. @@Maungateitei
@@ll-tb2tg easier to split and laminate bamboo than laminate carbon if you want a leaf spring. But you don't need to. Golden or fishing pole or fairyland bamboo has a zig-zag truss bulkhead shearweb just as it grows and has the highest fixed base end bending strength and toughness of any natural or man made structure. It does require appropriate drying, and oiling or lacquer sealing to stabilise its properties. I am a world champion high performance vehicle design engineer. With carbon epoxy composite construction. But bamboo has allowed me to exceed performance by several orders of magnetude that work. It is not so easily achievable to remove human skill from standardised construction. Though that is hardly a bad thing.
Great video... I'm working on kind of the same thing but mine needs to be light weight . I am disable and I need a easy transport . I already have a 36 volt electric bike wheel but, I want to use pedals as well. My project will need to narrow and widen so I can use it inside and outside. They have a recumbent cycle at rehab that used the arms and legs' so I am thinking that would be really nice as well. I am not wanting my trike to be really low it's hard to get out of when its so low but, the tilting front is a must. Mine is just on paper for now but, you've given me a lot to think about. Good luck with your project. I watch all of your videos. I live in Arizona USA so i really enjoy your green ! Have a great day and week
Just a crazy idea and maybe extremely unreasonable. What about having the rear wheel tip from side to side to simulate leaning a bicycle. Controlled by the steering up front. Probably too complicated for sure but still it could be interesting to experiment.
Leaning your steering pivot so the inner turning wheel lowers that side while in the turn which also leans the the outside steering wheel to lift the outer turning side up by pushing the outer turning wheel down (having the same problem in Space Engineers)
I remember trikes with a pair of wheels at the back, that were mounted very close together. Which I believe were still legally a trike in the UK at the time? 🤔
rear wheel steering is probably the best bet. you can set the steering up so that the wheel only moves slightly but with lots of movement on the steering wheel, should give you heaps of precision and also will make cornering easier. It may be complicated to do but i think it would work particularly well for your specific needs.
Very clever. I would have not thought of that. A potentially silly suggestion: When you add the electric motor, could you use part of its output to turn a flywheel that is parallel with the ground? This would store some energy and also function as a gyroscope. Gyroscopes used to be used to stabilize naval ships to minimize pitch during gunnery. Very interesting series- thanks. Frank
I was wondering whether you actually need suspension at all as you said you aren't going over rough terrain or travelling quickly. You could just rely on the spring in the tyre and spoked wheel! Any suspension at the rear will effect the chain to the wheel. Still it very interesting to see how this project is developing and here is an idea, why not extend the length so you could carry a load or passenger?
Make it front wheel drive with an open differential and tipover takes care of itself. If the inside wheel in a turn lifts, it spins as no power is going to the outside wheel. The trike slows and the inside wheel goes back down. You can also put the majority of the batteries and the motor up front to move the CG forward. A common trick for front suspension was to take a VW Beetle suspension and remove the lower spring stop in the center. That converted the lower spring to an anti-sway bar. Then either stiffer upper spring leaves were used or coilover shocks were used to replace the original type to replace the spring lost from the lower spring to sway bar conversion. Rather than using a VW suspension, which would be far too heavy and large for your trike, use the design as inspiration. Could even reverse it to have leading arms rather than trailing arms, as some custom car builders have done with the VW suspension. I assume they have to change the tilt or something to have the camber angle right.
The center line of the front tires(tyres) needs to be closer to the center line of the king pins projected to the road surface. A little camber & caster too. Too much scrubbing going on as it is. Looking good with the "aero" body panels. 🙂
You do very good things, apologies if my comments were phrased too negatively. I am building something similar and I agree that a velocar is something different from a recumbent and a bi/tricycle. Sitting in a car is a wildly different experience. I am inspired by the French Mochet velocars, but also some Scandinavian models (with more robust weatherproofing). Regarding electrification, velocars and real cars tend to have smaller wheels than upright bicycles. I have noticed that there are folding bikes with electric hub motors in a 20 inch rear wheel. They seem much less expensive than a full size wheel with a hin motor and other ways of electrification. Might be worth exploring. It'll be interesting to see your further solutions!
What u think about "tractor front axle assembly" idea? Less weight and u can play more easy with center of gravity in the front😉. Or ideas for "anti roll bar"🤔
You could use rear stabiliser wheels like on a Secma 50cc Funtech Qpod, so in theory it would have 5 wheels but this vehicle is still classed as a tricycle on its log book 👍
Well, that has worked out excellently... Doesn't look like you need it, but if there are any stability issues you could look into the law defining a tricycle. As in Germany for example (idk about other countries) you actually can have four wheels, if two of them are within a short distance of eachother. In this way you get more stability while legally falling under a tricycle. There are cars modified into such tricycles (mainly Fiat 500 if irc) you can drive with a motorcycle license starting at 16 yo, two years younger than a "normal" car.
another thing you might be able to do to help with the tipping is having the front suspension steering system tipping the vehicle into the turn. which should help keep the car from tipping.
Real progress although I had my doubts initially. I'm no fan of the tadpole design, as it is inherently unstable. However, your ingenious suspension system makes your vehicle quite stable. One question: where will you put your groceries or luggage or whatever you're fetching in your wood car?
I am probably way too late and have not read all the previous comments. But what about Flintstones style? With a very wide but single wheel at the rear, like what you might see on a drift trike?
As you ride a bike fast, you lean in the direction you want to go, could you redesign the front end to lean left or right to turn, keeping your suspension in the front and back, I don't know but if your are leaning both to the left you could somehow also lean the back left or right too. I would think this should allow even faster turns. I ask only because you did say is was all an experiment. Lee
Interesting video and challenge. Wood interesting from ecological viewpoint (although most metals become much better if you consider remelting them). And esthetics, wood is nice! Of course widening the footprint makes the vehicle more stable, but wider on road. Those velocars are at the tip over side of the equation, but aerodynamically sleek.(and expensive!). Weight is another question...how much does your machine weigh?
You got an audible "wow" out of me when Ashley didn't tip over on that sharp curve. It's great to see you overcoming the government bureaucracy with engineering acumen!
"I'm trying to build a car, not a forty mile an hour bed."
Hahah! 🤣Fantastic!
The house looks like an interesting design!
perfect timing! it's 2:24 am here in canada, and one last refresh of the home page showed me this before I went to bed.
Night night, kade!
Kudos to the transportation minister, a government official that responds to a citizen is unheard of on this continent.
I love every part of this project. We have to be sustainable and what is more sustainable than a low-powered wooden vehicle? Even rubber grows on a tree!
Good of him to actually get back to you. Mad respect
OUTSTANDING. 🤔 This is the future, sir. Clean air & healthy people. ✌️🌏🕊🍷🎩🎩🎩
I own and run a bicycle repair shop out of my home. Your experiments give me so many ideas. I am genuinely impressed. Not only are you very smart, but what I'm most impressed about is your levels of patience, resolve, and emotional maturity throughout this whole journey. If you come up with a successful design (and I'm confident you will) for a plywood electric assist pedal trike, I will definitely consider buying a set of your plans. However, my woodshop's best is not the 2D computer guided wood cutter. My best wood working power tools are currently a cordless circular saw, cordless sawzall, cordless drill, cordless brad nailer, and a small high speed rotary tool. Adding a jig saw to my tool set wouldn't hurt. Once again I'm very inspired. Your videos not only are very entertaining, but also very educational.
I've seen designs where the front axle pivots around a headtube, with a negative angle, i.e. leaning forward. This will lean the entire vehicle INTO the corner when turning rather than out of the corner.
Dang, never thought of that. That's brilliant. One could cut the head tube off an old bike and weld a solid front axle. If you use 24 inch fatbike wheels, shocks won't be needed. Fewer moving parts meens easier to maintain. 😎👍
@@Taser3141 Yeah! I started trying to build one a few years back with 16" kids bike wheels but never got that far with it. You could even potentially have a whole double wishbone setup still, but then it's increasing the amount of weight that you have to pivot around that head tube, and would be quite complex. Fat tyres would be a nice solution!
Best example of backyard engineering I've seen!!
Excellent! This is really becoming something 👍
For any structural parts made of plywood (especiallyif under compression or torsion), their effective strength will be multiplied if you reinforce the edges. This is why plywood boats have solid wood gunwales. You could also just slightly round them over and paint/coat them with thickened epoxy to prevent layer separation/cracking under load.
well done...and great to hear from your transport minister
The more of the car you show, the more exciting it gets. You have us on the edges of our seats waiting to see what comes next.
Dear Tim, Sharing it is a pleasure to Listen to your calm and clear voice and the brillant pictures!
I drove a „Messerschmitt“ cabin scooter several year and some decades ago. My advice from driving that 3 wheeler, keep the front wheel Suspension! Otherwise the Impulse of a stumbling Stone may turn you over.
I am looking forward to seeing your next episode! Thanks! You make may day!
That's looking really groovy!
A quick material idea for you: I don't know if its common in Ireland, but here on the other side of the Irish Sea we quite often get advertising signs made from lightweight corrugated plastic boards. Heavily used in places like garden centres who want to advertise the latest season's plants for example. Once used for the advertising period these are often thrown away. Single use plastic! Aarggh! However I've intercepted a few over the years and use them for all sorts of tinkering that needs something a bit flexible, but not too floppy and also weatherproof. I even cut a couple up to make "greedy boards" for one of my allotment wheelbarrows so that I could collect more leaves in one go for leaf mold making in the Autumn. I wonder if they might be a suitable, low cost ( free ) material for making some of the body work for this vehicle? Just a thought.
Coreflute it's called in Australia
"Correx" is the usual name here in the UK, I've bought it before under that name.
Coroplast is the US name. 👍
@@PatrickKQ4HBDand you can get it in approx 1m square chunks along with quite a bit of square steel tubing at any abandoned construction sign.
Of course, waiting for it to be abandoned is at individual discretion.
Thanks for the suggestion. I wonder how well it stand up to bumps and scratches - any thoughts?
I owned a Heinkel bubble car in my youth which was the same layout, two wheels at the front and one at the back and that never showed a tendency to tip, it did understeer badly though which did surprise me, if the road was wet you could throw it on full steering lock and carry on going straight !! That was a fun little car though, got almost 60mph out of it once, bit of a hairy ride though, I wouldn't recommend it.
Well simple wooden bendy sides make it look significantly more pretty.
Shame about loosing wheel but i suspect, in spite of more rigidity needed, it could lighten this i guess now single seater? (the multi people bit was mentioned as to be decided before not sure if it is still open for tinker)
Tim's engineering is always excellent insight into how clever tinkers do things. I appretiate it.
Your upload speed is impressive for such a project, most creator RUclipsrs leave us waiting many months for updates like this
Great work! A suggestion, which you may have already considered; Individually adjustable seating position for maximizing leg muscle mechanics. High knee pumping will wear you down quickly, and each person is a little taller or shorter than the next! At this stage in the process, this should be fairly easy to incorporate. I'm really impressed with your designs! Best wishes!
Tim, good job! That "body" adds a lot of support to the frame.
Great progress, Morgan got it right all those years ago. Still think the track at the front is too narrow. If you do redesign the front a few extra inches wouldn't go amiss. I remember the early homemade Cooper cars that used a motorcycle mid mounted engine used a transverse leaf spring from an old fiat 500. If you needed front suspension this might be a way forward. You could laminate up some ply and have a long structural spring that ran all the way across the front. This would act as the lower arm, and spring combined. 'Sorry for going on a bit but im enjoying what you are doing. 😊
The single transverse leaf spring acting as one of the (or both) suspension arms is a pretty common front end for golf carts in the US.
Hope the regulations are changed. I also liked it better as a 4-wheeler. You do always seem to have innovative solutions to problems you are presented.
I do realize this is just a mock up, to make sure design is sound. I am curious to see how you implement a trunk/boot. Perhaps a hatch back design, or a front trunk. If you do end up removing the front suspension, a tub with a lid could sit between the front wheels.
Perhaps I am jumping to far ahead. The vehicle does need to be functional first.
As always, I am looking forward to the next video.
It looks lovely!!!
I hope you build a little carrier car for the railway, so that you can drive the train somewhere and then hop out, unload the car, and bike around!
Of course, my sense of scale might be off; it might be faster to just pedal there!
Also I like an idea one of the other commenters had about a solid front axle under a single pivot, say a sawed off bicycle head tube. The single pivot would be angled with a negative pitch or something like that to purposely Lean the trike into corners.
You could add luggage space in the front, the added weight in the front whould stablize the car. Then there is some room for groceries ect.
It's like my three wheeler from a Franconian manufacturer... you have to lean inwards in the bend...
and my 3Wheeler has also no suspention on the front weehls, 2..3 times the outwart wheel liftet, one time i fell over.
Welcome to the Club :-D
As one other commented, exploring a good suspension system for the seat would make a big difference and big easy to implement. I would like to see the body sides widened and the driver non-centered to get back to allowing room for a passenger.
Even though wider seems like a better idea, the streets and back roads in his neighborhood get pretty narrow. A wider trike could be dangerous when confronted with a lorry or moterist in a hurry. My best idea (even if it's a bad one)is to put a passenger seat behind the driver (with an extra pair of pedals). Then it becomes a tandem electric assist trike!
I love your dogged determination to stay true to concept. Impressive cornering by Ashley . I can't wait until you add an electric motor. and gearbox.
Love where you're going, but I can't help but see it as rolling coffin 😂
Your incredible talent for designing and building a variety of devices never ceases to amaze me. Well done!
Looks like a true Flintstone care. Excellent work, can't wait to see more of this. Living in a small country sounds nice right about now from where I'm sitting 🇺🇸 ❤️ 🇮🇪
love the creaks and groans, (some say from the driver) its looking good. I have an engineering question, with the steering linkage, would an ellipsoid shape give greater leverage on the steering thereby making the steering quicker, and preventing the rider leaning?
You could likely retain some front suspension provided travel is quite limited or perhaps a stiff anti-roll bar is added. Widening the track at the front would also be beneficial if possible. I think you may need to raise the pedal crank, looks like Ashley's heels were very close to the ground when he was pedalling.
The swing-axle-style suspension wasn’t doing any favours for his roll centre. With different wishbone lengths there’s a lot you can do to mess about with your roll centre, an anti-roll bar would be great too.
Excellent work. Your design has a lot of potential.
Great to watch this project progress! Since you have a quite large space over the rear wheel, you could get away with a luggage rack. It could be on an angle and might look like the ones on old street/sports cars
I think the idea is to use this for grocery shopping, so I'd think a box either side of the rear wheel would be better. Possibly over the top as well, if the gears can take the weight.
Im spoiled. An upload from Tim and an upload from Marty T . Today is a good day and the sun is shinning too, bonus!
I was close! Not training wheels (which I was serious about🤦🏻♀️), but something else on the back wheel to make it more stable. I'm understanding more than I thought!
I think you're on to something there Tim! You are quite inspirational!
What a cute vehicle you’ve made, Tim!
You’re always way ahead but if you have no suspension in front you might take advantage and tip those front wheels a little bit to give a slightly wider stance. Better handling , and perhaps a little more strength since the cornering force is now more in axis.
Also , I’ve made lots of surprisingly strong structures out of 1/8 inch ply with some solid wood going around the edges. Perhaps something like that will help you reduce weight while still getting the strength you need.
Looking good !
I know it's not great from a cargo capacity point of view, but I love the look of the boat-tail body!!! :-)
I personally like the recumbent trike look (besides the feet for a bumper), and Im in the process of making a gokart with that layout using a longer wheelbase. The reclined sitting position allows for a low profile so the car can be small yet retain proportions.
Love the iterations of this where it slowly gets better and better. Great work as always Tim
same tbh
Your center of gravity for and aft not up and down, is towards the rear single wheel, which has no torsion support.
Two ideas used in the past are firstly move your seat close or over the front axial or mount the two wheel axial at the rear.
Good luck.
Hi Tim, love your experiments, I’m currently researching Cyclekarts which are more popular in America, but we’re starting to catch up in the UK👍. I’ve recently noticed that some of the plans available include an electric three wheeler unit… but sadly no pedal assistance! Sp presumably ok for the more lazy of us! Excluding you obviously, I wonder sometimes where you’re getting your energy from? Must be Sandra’s home cooking and that clean fresh air! BW … Mark
A cycle car in the Uk would be limited to 28KPH if electric unless you want to put it through the MSV test www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/motorcycle-single-vehicle-approval. Somewhat easier than the similar test for 4 wheel home built cars. You could then mount a moped or small bike engine to drive the back wheel and achieve some real speeds.
You could still create a suspension in the front that is dependent vs independent, where the suspension travels in a guided manner, both sides together, if you find you wish to further smoothen it. 😊 As always, such wonderful content!
I was thinking of building some kind of "lawn kart" that only goes about 5-10km/h and is maybe designed like an old covered wagon minus the horse. kind of like a moving shed! would be so handy
👍👌👏 Well done, Sir. Hope that the government will allow pedal cars with 4 wheels in Ireland soon. 2) Your 3wheel pedal car is already driving pretty good. Congratulations! 🎉 Please kindly allow me to suggest that you use a much sturdier wheel/rim for the back. Maybe one from a moped. Or maybe fabricobble 2 bicycle wheels together. This would at least be lighter than a moped wheel.
3) Do I remember correctly that you wanted to build a 2seater pedal car originally? Or did I get something wrong? Anyway, I wish you, that the end result will sell well (as a kit).
Thanks a lot for making teaching explaining recording editing uploading and sharing.
Best regards luck and especially health to all involved people.
Looking great Tim! A bike canoe? A biknoe? Love it!
I used to have a meserchmitt kr201 bubble car same basic layout front suspension swinging arm with rubber torsion suspension. . Same at back . Never had problem with bends
This will be a great looking vehicle once finished, one suspension idea I had was to add suspension to the seat rather than the wheels.
Coming along well . I take the body will be wider , to allow enough manoeuvrability whilst driving . But it looks like a great project 👍
I'm no engineer, but I would recommend keeping the front suspension to prolong the life of the parts in your steering, this is because shock absorbers are for keeping the parts in a car from knocking about. in addition to comfort.
I understand the thought process, but I expect that the thick bike tires should add enough cushion prevent that sort of damage! Plenty of bikes do just fine without any added suspension at all on much thinner wheels, although keeping the rear suspension is a smart idea to offset the weight of the car on the single wheel and knock out the nasty jolts. At *most* you could consider some sort of limited axle twist suspension to help with hitting a deep pothole on one side, but that sounds like a version 2.0 kind of concern, especially on a "tall central spine" bodyplan like this. The outer supports should be plenty to handle that torsion.
Car is looking great. If/when you add the electric motor the battery will add additional weight so if you mount it below or as near to the center of gravity as you can it might add to the stability of the car. What kind of brakes will you be using?
I like how it’s coming along Tim!
i smiled all the way through watching this. Your beautiful contraption looks like it has future amphibious potential...
While thinking on how to make a more stable Reliant Robin, I thought of putting the single front wheel behind a trailing swing arm, much as a motorcycle's rear wheel, and mounting the arm on a vertical pivot, such that it swings right for left turns, and left for right turns. This would place the single front wheel toward the outside of the car on turns.
You could try something similar, though your two swing arms would form a triangle, forcing the single rear wheel to rotate outward for tracking the rear of the trike, while moving to support the outside of the trike in turns. Of course, you would have to transition to front wheel chain drive, but you could keep the rear wheel electric drive.
It's so lovely to see that you keep this project alive, it's so easy to fi d stuff like this that was just given up upon. Keep on mate ^^
Since you have a single back wheel, you possibly could use one of those diy bike to e-bike conversion kits…they usually end up with a front hub driven wheel they provide of what ever size needed……. just a thought :)
You can buy the kits online and choose weather you want front or a rear wheel.
They cost the same amount.
That mock-up body reminds me of land speed cars; looks really cool already!
Wow! I am really enjoying your journey and I am really tempted to build your design once finished! Looking forward to the plans!
It would be cool a car someday. to make a boat car. But I love what you guys done so far.
Awesome. And you never know, in a couple years theyll hopefully change the law and you can make a 4 wheel mk II wooden car
I remember making a crude version of this back in the 1980's (as a little boy) and had the same issue with roll-over on fast cornering. It was suggested that I put a camber on the two front wheels, nothing too drastic but enough of an angle similar to the camber on wheelchairs used for disabled racing and other sports (Olympics). This fixed the issue, so I wonder if it will work for your trusty steed? lol
when you get to making the final one, I still think you could use carbon fibre rods under compression to stiffen everything up with much less weight than ply- They are cheap and cheerful!
Carbon fibre is very stiff but can not store much energy.
Bamboo has similar strength to weight to carbon fibre, but with yield at failure of 1.5% for carbon epoxy compared to 12% for bamboo, makes bamboo far tougher and capable of around 100x more energy storage and retrieval, especially when it's flexural strength and stiffness is the objective, as its density of around 1/3 of carbon composite gives 9x the specific strength and stiffness in a leaf lamination and vastly exceeds the performance of carbon composite in toughness, and added bonus far better high frequency dampening qualities
so youre suggesting cutting bamboo, then creating a leaf lamination??? That seems like lots of work. I'm not making this contraption, but I do believe your 'benefits' seem theoretical and complex when compared to simply designing the structure to use carbon fibre rods as strategic light-weight stiffeners that could be easily replaced if they failed. @@Maungateitei
@@ll-tb2tg easier to split and laminate bamboo than laminate carbon if you want a leaf spring.
But you don't need to.
Golden or fishing pole or fairyland bamboo has a zig-zag truss bulkhead shearweb just as it grows and has the highest fixed base end bending strength and toughness of any natural or man made structure.
It does require appropriate drying, and oiling or lacquer sealing to stabilise its properties.
I am a world champion high performance vehicle design engineer.
With carbon epoxy composite construction.
But bamboo has allowed me to exceed performance by several orders of magnetude that work.
It is not so easily achievable to remove human skill from standardised construction.
Though that is hardly a bad thing.
you are a bot@@Maungateitei
Carbon is strong in tension, it is weak in compression
Just found your channel, can't wait to see how it turns out!!!
You're getting there, Tim.
good work so far, have you ever considered articulating the front wheels to lean the chassis into the turn?
Great video... I'm working on kind of the same thing but mine needs to be light weight . I am disable and I need a easy transport . I already have a 36 volt electric bike wheel but, I want to use pedals as well. My project will need to narrow and widen so I can use it inside and outside. They have a recumbent cycle at rehab that used the arms and legs' so I am thinking that would be really nice as well. I am not wanting my trike to be really low it's hard to get out of when its so low but, the tilting front is a must. Mine is just on paper for now but, you've given me a lot to think about. Good luck with your project. I watch all of your videos. I live in Arizona USA so i really enjoy your green ! Have a great day and week
Best of luck with your build, Cody. Post some videos?
Just a crazy idea and maybe extremely unreasonable. What about having the rear wheel tip from side to side to simulate leaning a bicycle. Controlled by the steering up front. Probably too complicated for sure but still it could be interesting to experiment.
Leaning your steering pivot so the inner turning wheel lowers that side while in the turn which also leans the the outside steering wheel to lift the outer turning side up by pushing the outer turning wheel down (having the same problem in Space Engineers)
That would be doable with a single pivot, but how to do it with two?
It is possible that if you put most of the weight on the front wheels it is more stable, the Aptera goes like that and seems very stable in the turns.
Ya getting there bro. Safe travels. Ken.
I really liked the 4 wheels design. I hope it will be possible anyway soon
3 wheels and no front suspension. Simple and hence better. Great start !
I remember trikes with a pair of wheels at the back, that were mounted very close together. Which I believe were still legally a trike in the UK at the time? 🤔
You need an anti roll bar/linkage on the front to limit its tilt on corners.
rear wheel steering is probably the best bet. you can set the steering up so that the wheel only moves slightly but with lots of movement on the steering wheel, should give you heaps of precision and also will make cornering easier. It may be complicated to do but i think it would work particularly well for your specific needs.
Also this allows the front wheels to be driven, which i think would be more optimal for an electrically driven vehicle.
Very clever. I would have not thought of that.
A potentially silly suggestion:
When you add the electric motor, could you use part of its output to turn a flywheel that is parallel with the ground? This would store some energy and also function as a gyroscope. Gyroscopes used to be used to stabilize naval ships to minimize pitch during gunnery.
Very interesting series- thanks.
Frank
I think he's restricted by a weight limit as well, and a flywheel to be effective needs weight/inertia
I like the idea of a flywheel drive - but perhaps not for this project!
Does the Irish Road Traffic Act allow you to have 'stabiliser type' wheels behind the single wheel axle, that are held a few cm off the ground?
I love positive people. Take care.
I was wondering whether you actually need suspension at all as you said you aren't going over rough terrain or travelling quickly.
You could just rely on the spring in the tyre and spoked wheel! Any suspension at the rear will effect the chain to the wheel.
Still it very interesting to see how this project is developing and here is an idea, why not extend the length so you could carry a load or passenger?
You could give the rear wheel a shopping cart wheel design so the rear end comes out when cornering instead of tipping
Could you perhaps add some sacrificial 'stabilisers' made from ply or aluminium rods.. just as a backup plan if tipping occurs?
Nice 'N' clean workshop
Make it front wheel drive with an open differential and tipover takes care of itself. If the inside wheel in a turn lifts, it spins as no power is going to the outside wheel. The trike slows and the inside wheel goes back down. You can also put the majority of the batteries and the motor up front to move the CG forward.
A common trick for front suspension was to take a VW Beetle suspension and remove the lower spring stop in the center. That converted the lower spring to an anti-sway bar. Then either stiffer upper spring leaves were used or coilover shocks were used to replace the original type to replace the spring lost from the lower spring to sway bar conversion.
Rather than using a VW suspension, which would be far too heavy and large for your trike, use the design as inspiration. Could even reverse it to have leading arms rather than trailing arms, as some custom car builders have done with the VW suspension. I assume they have to change the tilt or something to have the camber angle right.
The center line of the front tires(tyres) needs to be closer to the center line of the king pins projected to the road surface. A little camber & caster too. Too much scrubbing going on as it is. Looking good with the "aero" body panels. 🙂
Well I tried all variations on all those and I'm happy with the arrangement as it is.
You do very good things, apologies if my comments were phrased too negatively.
I am building something similar and I agree that a velocar is something different from a recumbent and a bi/tricycle. Sitting in a car is a wildly different experience. I am inspired by the French Mochet velocars, but also some Scandinavian models (with more robust weatherproofing).
Regarding electrification, velocars and real cars tend to have smaller wheels than upright bicycles. I have noticed that there are folding bikes with electric hub motors in a 20 inch rear wheel. They seem much less expensive than a full size wheel with a hin motor and other ways of electrification. Might be worth exploring.
It'll be interesting to see your further solutions!
Good day SIr, you are an OUTSTANDING Engineer 🧐🧐👍👍👌👌Cheers 🍻🍻
What u think about "tractor front axle assembly" idea? Less weight and u can play more easy with center of gravity in the front😉. Or ideas for "anti roll bar"🤔
You could use rear stabiliser wheels like on a Secma 50cc Funtech Qpod, so in theory it would have 5 wheels but this vehicle is still classed as a tricycle on its log book 👍
Well, that has worked out excellently...
Doesn't look like you need it, but if there are any stability issues you could look into the law defining a tricycle. As in Germany for example (idk about other countries) you actually can have four wheels, if two of them are within a short distance of eachother. In this way you get more stability while legally falling under a tricycle. There are cars modified into such tricycles (mainly Fiat 500 if irc) you can drive with a motorcycle license starting at 16 yo, two years younger than a "normal" car.
Interesting!
It's coming along nicely!
another thing you might be able to do to help with the tipping is having the front suspension steering system tipping the vehicle into the turn. which should help keep the car from tipping.
Real progress although I had my doubts initially. I'm no fan of the tadpole design, as it is inherently unstable. However, your ingenious suspension system makes your vehicle quite stable. One question: where will you put your groceries or luggage or whatever you're fetching in your wood car?
I am probably way too late and have not read all the previous comments. But what about Flintstones style? With a very wide but single wheel at the rear, like what you might see on a drift trike?
As you ride a bike fast, you lean in the direction you want to go, could you redesign the front end to lean left or right to turn, keeping your suspension in the front and back, I don't know but if your are leaning both to the left you could somehow also lean the back left or right too. I would think this should allow even faster turns. I ask only because you did say is was all an experiment.
Lee
use silent blocs for suspension, thats what flevo bike did in the 80s, very comfortable.
Interesting video and challenge. Wood interesting from ecological viewpoint (although most metals become much better if you consider remelting them). And esthetics, wood is nice! Of course widening the footprint makes the vehicle more stable, but wider on road. Those velocars are at the tip over side of the equation, but aerodynamically sleek.(and expensive!). Weight is another question...how much does your machine weigh?
you should tilt the seat slightly towards the backrest to make it more comfortable