A great friend of mine, who sadly passed away years ago, with his wife Shirley, designed the body of the loco in conjunction with Wrenn staff. I bought 3 unprepared bodies from him for a fiver each. As far as I can recall, these were the latest locos to be designed by Wrenn before their demise, and I bought a Plymouth for £30 and an Exeter for £35 from Hattons, definitely. Albert Goodall spent lots of time taking measurements, photos, and details from Barry Scrapyard in South Wales. Known as Mister Bulleid, he helped me with many things, and he is still revered today for his knowledge. He made corrected paper overlays for streamlined WC/BB, kits from Kitmaster / Airfix, original and late cab, whitemetal parts for Triang Bulleids, and even platform fencing, much of which I had, and released on several photocopy sheets, with other details as his "catalogue". Prices were always very reasonable. He was a real fount of knowledge, and when I told him I was going to build a 257 Squadron, he said "don't forget the centre driver has an incorrectly made wheel", and made me one to suit! Sadly, I divorced, and the whole collection of several hundred locos was sold, but at least I had made a great friend in Albert, Shirley too, of Sevenoaks in Kent. I pondered earlier taking over the business he had when he got too old to do it, but someone else did, and produces these parts to improve many older locos and perhaps some new. Albert in my estimation, was a great loss to the Bulleid community, as he was able to tell the quirks of each loco, which were modified and when, without referring to a book.
Wow that's awesome Martin thank you so much for sharing - I hadn't heard about Albert before, but he sounds like a great person - wish I could have known thim! Thanks again for sharing, Sam :)
Funny Story Sam I got a rebuild one of these for $30, the owner said that It didn't work but when I got home to test it, it ran beautifully ;) Cheers Jasper & Willow
Ahh a vintage OO loco review? Don't see a lot of those around here anymore. Not complaining, maybe you should do something like this every now and then! These old models have a certain charm to them. :)
Since your model has orange lining I believe that means it was made between 1990 and 1992. So, if 1192 indicates the date, it may be one the very last made. I do agree that Wrenn (and Hornby Dublo) models do have a certain charisma. My fondness for them probably stems from me having several from the late 1960s, when I was a boy.
@@SamsTrains The fact that the lining and green colour differ slightly between the loco and the tender further points to the fact that your model may well be one of the last produced. Wrenn were using what parts they had left to make complete locos.
I have a few Wrenn's. Their wagons hold up to the modern stuff in my opinion, I seek them out with their metal chassis's they run excellent and dont have derail problems. Their engines, I have the Brunswick Green Mallard and the 2-6-4 tank and they just feel like something special. Detail wise not really amazing mostly down to painted detail in my opinion, but to hold in the hand they feel like a miniaturised machine rather than a fragile plastic model.
Good to see this excellent item, I run Wrenn all the time on my vintage Tri-ang Super 4 layout. Please continue to occasionally feature some vintage items, there are a lot of us who still enjoy running them and modifying them too. All the best to you
The danger of the Hornby/Wrenn ringfield motor was that it had a tendency to stall and burn out. I still have two, a Hornby Dublo Stanier 2-8-0 costing £1.50 in 1967 and a Wrenn West Country costing me £5.00 in 1972. The non-ringfield motor in Hornby Dublo was better than the ringfield in my 2-6-4 tank.
If memory serves me the Wrenn locos shot up in price after the factory in Wales burned down, with the loss of all tooling. I think this as around 95/96? I was England at the time and attending a couple of model loco auctions, and noticed the price jump.
Excellent. A West Country Class un-rebuilt and in proper Southern railway colours too! Love it! The Spam Cans were truly iconic, but rarely do we see them in Southern colours. I have the Hornby 00 version of Exeter and have to admit to it being my favourite.
Yes, would love to see more of older locos run and discussed again. Most of mine are from the 1970’s and 80’s. Just a few purchased over the past year.
Love this loco, I have a Wrenn Duchess, worth about £200. Decent model for it's time. Interestingly it's branded "Tri-ang Wrenn" so maybe they were bought by Tri-Ang? I don't know. Great video as always.
hornby-dublo (Meccano) started making them. they were bought by tri-ang in 1964, and production stopped. later George Wrenn, who's company was also owned by tri-ang was given permission to produce the old hornby dublo products under the name Tri-ang Wrenn. then... Tri-ang went bankrupt, and richard lines along with the hornby management bought the company, but the tri-ang name had been sold, so they became just Hornby, whilst George Wrenn bought his company back and became Wrenn Railways. He retired in about 1992 and the company closed.
Photos of both the West Country and the Royal Scot appear as locos "Coming Soon" in the 1976 Wrenn catalogue.The tender and motor are the same as supplied with the Hornby-Dublo rebuilt West Country which dates back to the 1950s.
From memory, Beatties, Holborn, late 1980's (ish), £108-00. I wanted one and didn't have the money, however I have one now, Fighter Pilot - Golden Arrow, with flags and goodness knows what. And yes, it's my favourite engine, having been professionally 3-railed and running on my Hornby-Dublo system. I totally agree with both your sentiments, it does not have the detail that a new loco would have but... I just love these things, loud, solid and they run. That 3 pole motor was introduced in 1938 ! Wrenn later did a 5 pole version. these motors used more current than modern locos and you really need a much more powerful controller, then it will go pretty well, and do wheel spins.
Yeah I was going to say this could mean the Gaugemaster controller is underpowered and can't source enough current for the motor. Try an old H&M or similar age controller that was designed for these models :) I have an old Hornby Dublo 3-rail A4 that struggles on a Gaugemaster but is fine on a more powerful source (my bench power supply I use for testing). Similar motor.
She’s a beauty! One of these scared the living daylights out of me. I was about 10 and the loco lifted her safety valves as I was alongside it. Wow! What a noise.
Hi Sam, lovely, lovely model. I'm surprised she is that sluggish, not been my finding at all. I was going to suggest the magnet but you say you have done that. Does it have the inductors to the motor? Outside chance one of them has some resistance. Cheers
The spinning wheels on the track isn't an ideal way to measure torque to be honest. When you have a heavier loco, there is extra weight pushing down on the wheels, creating extra friction, in otherwords, the wheels grip the rails more, so they are less likely to slip. You will likely find, if measured with proper equipment, the Wrenn actually has the same, if not more, torque as the Hornby/Triang model does
The différence between this and todays Chinese made super detailed models - and the Mainline models of the time - is that this will still be running in 70 years time, I doubt any of its older or more modern competitors will still be running at the turn of the 22nd century ! It would be nice to rate it compared to its peers of the 1980’s. Yes, reviews of old style stuff would be great, but you need to rate them according to the period they were produced.
I bought the Wrenn LMS Pacific class ‘City of Stoke on Trent’ for £17.00 in 1977 from a model shop in Portsmouth, which is still there! According to the Bank of England inflation calculator, that equates to £93 in today’s money. You can’t get a large loco for that these days! BTW: Sold all my Wrenn locos (kept the rolling stock) a couple of years back when I decided to go DCC. Not regretted it.
"I'm the kind of person who believe that models trains are made to be run", add me on the list ! And I really like your idea to review vintage models, it is always interesting to anyone, not only hardcore collectors or vintage-oriented modellers. Honestly, can you imagine a manufacturer building locomotives today with this basic level of details, just adding a DCC socket and NEM couplers compared to the Wrenn model, and sell that for GBP 100 retailer's price ? I think you have a market for basic detailed and low priced engines...
Wait whaaaat a Wrenn locomotive?! Oh god, I didn't think you would review one in 2023. I went back to watch some of your old Wrenn loco reviews, the Castle and the 4MT 2-6-4 tank. I didn't know they did a Light Pacific. I only know the common Wrenn locomotives, like the 8F, the N2, the Castle and the City. I got my first Hornby Dublo locomotive last November it was Cardiff Castle for 40£. This year I got a N2 and a 4MT BR Standard tank. I really love them. The weight is absolutely amazing it's like holding a real locomotive it's so heavy. I serviced mine and they still run like a dream even after so many years of sitting. A taste of oil and it goes pulling 30 wagons without any problem. They are also easy to service. Absolutely love Wrenn locomotives if the price is right (which it mostly isn't sadly) this is a model that just lasts and runs until the brushes die but even then replace em and there you go. Simple, heavy, durable, built to last. Absolutely love them 👌 great review, Sam 👍 Edit: Please do more vintage locomotive reviews. Maybe once a month a Tri-ang, vintage Airfix or old Hornby, I think its great to have a look back in time and see how far we've come from toy trains to super detail models. I think it would make a nice little series like Blast from the Past once a month for fun.
I've found vintage Wrenns don't like finer scale points like Trix C-track code 83 (2.1mm). Work fine on Peco code 100. The tyres are indeed course scale.
I love modern models, especially for their detail etc, but Dublo / Wrenn locos are still great. Considering the basic loco chassis and motors were designed in the late 1930s, they still work! I have a pre-war Dublo N2, that after a bit of TLC, runs perfectly well. These things are bomb proof! I do wonder how well a modern Hornby / Bachmann etc loco will run in 80+ years time? Great to see Wrenn being used.
9:30 This Wrenn West Country Locomotive Is A Bit Like Rebecca From Thomas The Tank Engine And Friends The Original Series. Thanks Sam'sTrains Dude Mate. X
in 1973 the rebuilt west country Wrenn had an RRP of £10.5 which put through the Bank of England inflation calculator is only £106. I remember in the early 1970s going to TOYS TOYS TOYS in N. London to buy a Triang class 08 shunter which cost 2 weeks of my pocket money! I'll try and find my late Wrenn pricelist. From memory they did start to get more expensive in real terms but not much more than Triang Hornby of the same year.
I have 3 Wrenn locos, all of them have been heavily modifiedwith new wheelsets, and motor gearbox units, they are the best running locos I have, when it comes to slow speed and pulling performance, One of mine is the Duchess of Hamilton, another is Silver link and the other is a 4-6-4 Tank. Apart from the slight whine from the gearboxes they are my best runners. The ladder is probably the most realistic part of your loco, how many loco's ladders would have remained in the shape they left the works in real life.
As I live in Plymouth, I can appreciate this review. That crest is the city of Plymouths Coat of Arms. The black white and green are pretty synonymous with the city, and the 4 towers represents 4 forts around the city, dating back to the English Civil War.
Nice review Sam , i have a few Wrenn loco's my Duchess in BR express blue i have been offered a large amount of cash for it but since i have had it for over 45 years it ain't going no-where.
Next most expensive Engine episode will feature a 4-6-2 LNER Gresley prototype A1 with titanium chassis and running board with a hand carved emerald body featuring Ruby dust lining and gold plated running gear, and diamond glazed windows, and silver wheels and ivory and ebony cabin interior, and a amber firebox glow-stone (Like this will ever happen) Great vid Sam
I had a 1970s Wrenn rebuilt Wrenn West Country in which the large motor was mounted on a slope so the top end filled the entire cab. Overall it was quite a crude model but it had a certain charm and adding details such as flush glazing, finer ladders and coupling hooks improved it a lot.
What a handsome locomotive. The flat pannels give it a sleek and modern look. I imagine they wash the trains with a brush on a long pole and a trolley of soapy water. Then another person going along behind hosing it off. But I could be completely wrong :-)
Strictly speaking, Wrenn did not develop this motor. It's the Hornby Dublo mechanism first seen on the A4 "Sir Nigel Gresley" model in 1938. In fact, the Wrenn chassis under this loco is actually a development of the Dublo A4 chassis (slightly different casting, modified axle mounting, slightly different armature design and obviously different valvegear). Interestingly, this chassis was also used under the Wrenn Royal Scot, albeit with different valvegear, wheels and no pony truck. The tender shown here is also a standard Dublo WC tender (that isn't strictly prototypical for unrebuilt locos). The only genuinely 'new' thing about this loco is the body, which Wrenn developed. By contrast, the Rebuilt WC is just a straight continuation of the Dublo West Country class with minor modifications.
Why not do a review/ comparison of the Triang Princess locomotives over the years, I think there has been at least three, maybe four. I have an original 1950s and a much later 1970s version. We can then see how far production has improved.
Hi Sam, Your engine and the Wrenn Royal Scot are two of the most expensive R+R vintage engines you can but. Both are wonderful. I would love to have them in my collection.
If you were up for it, you should find yourself a steam loco made by Bowser. They were primarily kits with a standard version or for a little extra, a super detail kit can be included, models prior to 1986 had their boilers cast in lead. They primarily made Pennsylvania Railroad prototypes along with a New York Central K-11 4-6-2, USRA heavy 4-8-2/ freelance 4-8-4, Union Pacific challenger and big boy. They have five pole open frame motors and although they may be a little temperamental at times, a well dialed bowser can outperform brand new models.
Sam I have an idea. As someone who has many points and switches on my layout I find some Engines struggle on my points with issues such as derailing or cutting out and I am most likely not the only one who has this issue. So for some people who may have many points you could add in your performance tests trying engines over points. Sorry if I seem Rude. However lovely to see another vintage Loco they have such a charm to them. Thanks.
I did not know this model existed and the detail is very good for a Wrenn engine. I have a Wrenn 34042 Dorcester (rebuilt) - new and unused - on display and think it is delightful in a tactile sense.
Glad to finally see you showing this guy off after you chickened out in the livestream series a while back XD In all seriousness, I did like the look of it. I thought the front end looked really cool
hahaha yeah sorry about that - it was because it's buried away in it's box in the back room... it'd have taken ages to dig it out, haha! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
It’s pretty neat that the West Country/Battle of Britain class is actually the basis for the Thomas character Rebecca while the character Neville is a Bulleid Q1 both engine basis for both Rebecca and Neville were designed by Oliver Bulleid.
I really enjoyed the review. To a certain degree, the Wren locomotives remind me of the American manufacturer Bowser. The old steam locos were all diecast, but they had a large dc71 open frame motor. With the weight, combined with the torque of the dc71 motors, these beasts will pull anything you put behind them. Detail was minimal, but brass detail kits were available. I was surprised that the Wren didn't pull better with its weight. Perhaps, with a different motor, they would have pulled the paint off the wall. Very interesting looking locomotive. Keep up the great reviews and congratulations on 10 YEARS !!!!
Good afternoon Sam. A fascinating, fantastic video. G and R Wrenn are the ROLEX of model railways when i was growing up. To own a locomotive, coach or wagon made by this company was a privilege and a pleasure. You had made it in the model railway world BECAUSE THIS COMPANY AND THE ROLLING STOCK THEY PRODUCED WERE FOR CONNOISSEUR'S AND COLLECTORS. BRITISH made in Basildon in Essex. Yes they are double the price of Hornby, Lima and Airfix but they were worth it. PROPER trains with die cast chassis. Proper transfers on wagons like Dunlop or Bisto. It's a scandal Hornby did not rescue them in 1992 which is a shame. But the locomotive you own is a beautiful top class quality BRITISH made model locomotive, PURE ROLEX. I have City of Wells in Golden Arrow regalia absolutely stunning. Thank you Sam for sharing your locomotive with me.🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟👍
I thought the value of these Wrenns would go down when the new Hornby Dublo diecast ones came out? The new Merchant Navy is a very good model with the correct shade of SR green!
The chassis design looks very like the original Hornby Dublo chassis on the Class 4 2-6-4T, Duchesses, A4s, 0-6-2Ts. Some of the Wrenn locos eg. City of Liverpool and City of London, had an open frame motor similar to some of the 8fs and Castles. These and others had the Dublo designed Ringfield motor. The reason I think Wrenn never used the Ringfield motor was probably so they vould measure the Backhead. The Ringfield and open frame motors both ran better and pulled more, so I'm very disappointed that that mechanism was used (I didnt know they did). That type of chassis was designed in the 1930s-40s. If you wanted to improve running, you can get a five pole armature for this type of loco. There are a few firms that can supply them!
I brought that way back, sometime between 1975 and 1979, You said yours was made in the 1980s, so mine was possibly a previous tooling. I doubt it cost me more than £20. Sadly it went with the rest of my railway when I moved. I didn't get anything like £300 for it though :(
Hi Sam. Do any makers produce models of really early stuff. Pre Copper Knob? e.g. Beamish Museum, County Durham, England. Seen from the south, the locomotive Locomotion No. 1 stands at the east end of the single platform on the Pockerley Waggonway.
I'm surprised you actually reviewed and ranked such an old locomotive! I remember the last time you did this, you only put out five vintage loco reviews that year, all in their own rankings book. Older model trains do have that charm to them, especially motor sounds over DCC sound systems.
Yeah I did used to do that - not done one for ages though, and I'm not sure if I'll review any more in the near future, so I didn't create a new logbook! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
OMG I have never seen a Wrenn SR West Country class loco, never even knew that they made one. And I have not seen any vintage loco with a box that looks brand new.
i got my dad the Hornby R2215 LT Ed 18ct Gold Plated LMS 4-6-2 Princess Elizabeth Locomotive which he's kept in a display case & never run it. last i checked the value on one of them was around £1000-£2000 if never run & in pristine condition
Your loco must have been the last batch produced, as Wrenn ceased trading around 1992. I remember seeing new Wrenn locos in the model shop back then, but rarely gave them much attention as they looked a little crude to what was on offer at the time. As soon as Wrenn ceased trading, the locos disappeared off the shelves, and were being advertised at least 3-4 times the original shop price, it literally happened overnight.
Hi sam I hope you are well? I really love this review I wish you would review more older models What a stunner model in my opinion Thank you for sharing your models with us Keep safe ARP
With modern Loco's at over £200 and Coaches at £60 each, it might be worth highlighting some of the better older models, so that newer members to the community can start with more affordable options. 😊
@@Citalopram40 I like buying "non-running" locos off of Hattons for cheap and fixing them up, most of the time they just need a bit of cleaning and lubrication.
@@BAKU2K2 I too like buying non runners to add to my collection. At the moment I have a Hornby LNER B12 on the bench that I have reassembled and added DCC; just got to add pickups to the Tender, for smoother running. 🙂
Nice video Sam. To me there is something special about Wrenn and Dublo locos and certainly this loco is in the style of Dublo. Some other positives are that these locos are robustly built and wont fall apart in your hands like some finely detailed modern locos. Apart from the rare items like this generally good specimens can be had for more reasonable prices than modern alternatives. If we are honest Wrenn did do some strange things during their history with liveries and finishes of their locos although this particular model looks pretty good and not bad on accuracy. To me running Wrenn or Dublo is about running high quality toy trains more than model railways-I think, though, there is a place and fun to be had from both!
I've got a couple of old Doublo locos and they are really extremely robust, and IMO more detailed, much cheaper and therefore better value than the Wrenn models.
I do like looking at the older locos, most of mine aren’t modern because I can’t afford new lol but I enjoy seeing the older ones running! Great video! Cheers Dan :)
Well, that is a tad debatable! What Sam said is mostly true, but when a Boxpok wheel went, it went! If a spoked wheel sometimes warped and/or shrank, then Boxpok cracked and/or split. It was a tad more durable, but boy, did you need your ultrasonic testing to pickup nascent cracks! Good job that Bullied was a pioneer of ultrasonic testing!
Great to see a Wrenn review! They are very special aren't they! I've got a Wrenn City of Wells West Country, 3-railed for running with Hornby Dublo, along with several other Wrenn locos. I think you will probably get better performance with a more powerful controller, mine shows better torque. The other Wrenn models that they made 'new' as opposed to continuing Dublo models were the un-rebuilt Royal Scot and the Brighton Belle although the mechanisms were essential Dublo style still. The un-rebuilt WC/BofB tender was the same as the Dublo rebuilt West Country so the tooling dates from late 1961! Why they only put one ladder on the back I'll never know! One of my Dublo ones has had the 2nd added as per the 1:1 versions! How about getting hold of some old Dublo 3-rail track and locos and reviewing them - the Castle, dating from, I think 1957, was the 'gold standard' for many years and still stands up well. I also run more modern locos but I doubt if they will still be running when they are 60 to 70 years old and enjoy such a good spares availability!
I am pretty sure that the odd one out is the Hornby Merchant Navy Class. The Hornby Merchant Navy is my favourite model steam loco and so I recognised it immediately 😅
Thanks for showing us that (again) Sam. Is the cab detail engraved rather than raised? Looks like it, but hard to tell in 2D. More of a show-and-tell than a normal review and I liked that. That model has a good caretaker!
Very interesting and nostalgiic video, Sam - brought a tear to the eye seeing the Wrenn model! Was the blue Merchant Navy class on the turntable the odd one out? Found a Wreen catalogue dated January 1978 which lists their new Royal Scot models W2260/1 at £29.50 (but available only after May) - no mention of the unrebuilt WC, so guess that must have come later still. The ex-Hornby Dublo rebuilt WC 'Barnstaple' in BR livery and 'Lyme Regis' in SR livery were priced at £25.95 each.
Hornby Dublo tenders were made of tin plate, when they bought the Dublo tooling they did not buy the tooling for the tin plate tenders and instead bought in plastic tenders from Hornby Triang, so the tenders are a bit naff compared with the locomotives.
Blimey! I've got a couple of boxed Wrenn locos, I'd better check and see if they are worth a bit these days. They are awesome for their age, but I'm not a vintage loco collector so giving them a better home makes sense. And if I'm lucky I can afford a new loco or 2.
A great friend of mine, who sadly passed away years ago, with his wife Shirley, designed the body of the loco in conjunction with Wrenn staff. I bought 3 unprepared bodies from him for a fiver each. As far as I can recall, these were the latest locos to be designed by Wrenn before their demise, and I bought a Plymouth for £30 and an Exeter for £35 from Hattons, definitely. Albert Goodall spent lots of time taking measurements, photos, and details from Barry Scrapyard in South Wales. Known as Mister Bulleid, he helped me with many things, and he is still revered today for his knowledge. He made corrected paper overlays for streamlined WC/BB, kits from Kitmaster / Airfix, original and late cab, whitemetal parts for Triang Bulleids, and even platform fencing, much of which I had, and released on several photocopy sheets, with other details as his "catalogue". Prices were always very reasonable. He was a real fount of knowledge, and when I told him I was going to build a 257 Squadron, he said "don't forget the centre driver has an incorrectly made wheel", and made me one to suit! Sadly, I divorced, and the whole collection of several hundred locos was sold, but at least I had made a great friend in Albert, Shirley too, of Sevenoaks in Kent. I pondered earlier taking over the business he had when he got too old to do it, but someone else did, and produces these parts to improve many older locos and perhaps some new. Albert in my estimation, was a great loss to the Bulleid community, as he was able to tell the quirks of each loco, which were modified and when, without referring to a book.
Wow that's awesome Martin thank you so much for sharing - I hadn't heard about Albert before, but he sounds like a great person - wish I could have known thim!
Thanks again for sharing,
Sam :)
I think a vintage table would be a nice idea if you do more reviews like this in the future
That would be great you're right!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Funny Story Sam I got a rebuild one of these for $30, the owner said that It didn't work but when I got home to test it, it ran beautifully ;)
Cheers Jasper & Willow
Ahh a vintage OO loco review? Don't see a lot of those around here anymore. Not complaining, maybe you should do something like this every now and then! These old models have a certain charm to them. :)
That's true - maybe I should make a few more!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains you should review old American models, if so try athearn blue box or older atlas
Since your model has orange lining I believe that means it was made between 1990 and 1992. So, if 1192 indicates the date, it may be one the very last made.
I do agree that Wrenn (and Hornby Dublo) models do have a certain charisma. My fondness for them probably stems from me having several from the late 1960s, when I was a boy.
Thanks for sharing Jeffrey - yeah that would definitely make sense. They really do have a charm to them don't they??
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains The fact that the lining and green colour differ slightly between the loco and the tender further points to the fact that your model may well be one of the last produced. Wrenn were using what parts they had left to make complete locos.
You asked if we'd like some more of the older engines in your collection. YES PLEASE! Bring 'em on!
I have a few Wrenn's. Their wagons hold up to the modern stuff in my opinion, I seek them out with their metal chassis's they run excellent and dont have derail problems. Their engines, I have the Brunswick Green Mallard and the 2-6-4 tank and they just feel like something special. Detail wise not really amazing mostly down to painted detail in my opinion, but to hold in the hand they feel like a miniaturised machine rather than a fragile plastic model.
Good to see this excellent item, I run Wrenn all the time on my vintage Tri-ang Super 4 layout. Please continue to occasionally feature some vintage items, there are a lot of us who still enjoy running them and modifying them too. All the best to you
The danger of the Hornby/Wrenn ringfield motor was that it had a tendency to stall and burn out. I still have two, a Hornby Dublo Stanier 2-8-0 costing £1.50 in 1967 and a Wrenn West Country costing me £5.00 in 1972. The non-ringfield motor in Hornby Dublo was better than the ringfield in my 2-6-4 tank.
I remember you pointing out this video in a live stream a while back. Please can we see more reviews of older models?
Definitely! I have a few other projects in the works featuring older models :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
If memory serves me the Wrenn locos shot up in price after the factory in Wales burned down, with the loss of all tooling. I think this as around 95/96? I was England at the time and attending a couple of model loco auctions, and noticed the price jump.
That was actually dapol: they had the dublo super detail wagon molds. Wrenn was in Essex: basically the last years working out of a house.
Excellent. A West Country Class un-rebuilt and in proper Southern railway colours too! Love it! The Spam Cans were truly iconic, but rarely do we see them in Southern colours. I have the Hornby 00 version of Exeter and have to admit to it being my favourite.
Is the Merchant Navy on the turntable the odd one out among a sea of West Countries?
Until I saw the box in your video, never knew Wrenn was based in Basildon. (family connection) All the years I saw Wrenn models at train fairs :D
Yes, would love to see more of older locos run and discussed again. Most of mine are from the 1970’s and 80’s. Just a few purchased over the past year.
Love this loco, I have a Wrenn Duchess, worth about £200. Decent model for it's time. Interestingly it's branded "Tri-ang Wrenn" so maybe they were bought by Tri-Ang? I don't know. Great video as always.
hornby-dublo (Meccano) started making them. they were bought by tri-ang in 1964, and production stopped. later George Wrenn, who's company was also owned by tri-ang was given permission to produce the old hornby dublo products under the name Tri-ang Wrenn. then... Tri-ang went bankrupt, and richard lines along with the hornby management bought the company, but the tri-ang name had been sold, so they became just Hornby, whilst George Wrenn bought his company back and became Wrenn Railways.
He retired in about 1992 and the company closed.
What an absolutely clean old model, even the motor is so tidy and clean! Ive never seen magnet plates that shiny and chrome
Photos of both the West Country and the Royal Scot appear as locos "Coming Soon" in the 1976 Wrenn catalogue.The tender and motor are the same as supplied with the Hornby-Dublo rebuilt West Country which dates back to the 1950s.
Now you need a graham farish oo gauge one to complete the set !
From memory, Beatties, Holborn, late 1980's (ish), £108-00. I wanted one and didn't have the money, however I have one now, Fighter Pilot - Golden Arrow, with flags and goodness knows what. And yes, it's my favourite engine, having been professionally 3-railed and running on my Hornby-Dublo system. I totally agree with both your sentiments, it does not have the detail that a new loco would have but... I just love these things, loud, solid and they run.
That 3 pole motor was introduced in 1938 ! Wrenn later did a 5 pole version. these motors used more current than modern locos and you really need a much more powerful controller, then it will go pretty well, and do wheel spins.
Yeah I was going to say this could mean the Gaugemaster controller is underpowered and can't source enough current for the motor. Try an old H&M or similar age controller that was designed for these models :)
I have an old Hornby Dublo 3-rail A4 that struggles on a Gaugemaster but is fine on a more powerful source (my bench power supply I use for testing). Similar motor.
She’s a beauty! One of these scared the living daylights out of me. I was about 10 and the loco lifted her safety valves as I was alongside it. Wow! What a noise.
Hi Sam, lovely, lovely model. I'm surprised she is that sluggish, not been my finding at all. I was going to suggest the magnet but you say you have done that. Does it have the inductors to the motor? Outside chance one of them has some resistance. Cheers
The spinning wheels on the track isn't an ideal way to measure torque to be honest.
When you have a heavier loco, there is extra weight pushing down on the wheels, creating extra friction, in otherwords, the wheels grip the rails more, so they are less likely to slip. You will likely find, if measured with proper equipment, the Wrenn actually has the same, if not more, torque as the Hornby/Triang model does
Hey Sam, I believe the odd one out was the BR blue Merchant Navy on the turntable
The différence between this and todays Chinese made super detailed models - and the Mainline models of the time - is that this will still be running in 70 years time, I doubt any of its older or more modern competitors will still be running at the turn of the 22nd century !
It would be nice to rate it compared to its peers of the 1980’s. Yes, reviews of old style stuff would be great, but you need to rate them according to the period they were produced.
I bought the Wrenn LMS Pacific class ‘City of Stoke on Trent’ for £17.00 in 1977 from a model shop in Portsmouth, which is still there!
According to the Bank of England inflation calculator, that equates to £93 in today’s money. You can’t get a large loco for that these days!
BTW: Sold all my Wrenn locos (kept the rolling stock) a couple of years back when I decided to go DCC. Not regretted it.
The driving wheels remind me of the JNR C62
Enjoying this bery much and haven't even got to the loco yet! Just the packaging! More vintage reviews please
Man a old and expensive locomotive, looks pretty nice in southern green, can’t wait to see more when it comes to older engines
Thanks David - more on the way :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
"I'm the kind of person who believe that models trains are made to be run", add me on the list !
And I really like your idea to review vintage models, it is always interesting to anyone, not only hardcore collectors or vintage-oriented modellers.
Honestly, can you imagine a manufacturer building locomotives today with this basic level of details, just adding a DCC socket and NEM couplers compared to the Wrenn model, and sell that for GBP 100 retailer's price ? I think you have a market for basic detailed and low priced engines...
Interesting video - what distract d me was that Wrenn were from Basildon! I didn’t know my home town had a model railway company!
Wait whaaaat a Wrenn locomotive?! Oh god, I didn't think you would review one in 2023. I went back to watch some of your old Wrenn loco reviews, the Castle and the 4MT 2-6-4 tank. I didn't know they did a Light Pacific. I only know the common Wrenn locomotives, like the 8F, the N2, the Castle and the City. I got my first Hornby Dublo locomotive last November it was Cardiff Castle for 40£. This year I got a N2 and a 4MT BR Standard tank. I really love them. The weight is absolutely amazing it's like holding a real locomotive it's so heavy. I serviced mine and they still run like a dream even after so many years of sitting. A taste of oil and it goes pulling 30 wagons without any problem. They are also easy to service. Absolutely love Wrenn locomotives if the price is right (which it mostly isn't sadly) this is a model that just lasts and runs until the brushes die but even then replace em and there you go. Simple, heavy, durable, built to last. Absolutely love them 👌 great review, Sam 👍
Edit: Please do more vintage locomotive reviews. Maybe once a month a Tri-ang, vintage Airfix or old Hornby, I think its great to have a look back in time and see how far we've come from toy trains to super detail models. I think it would make a nice little series like Blast from the Past once a month for fun.
It's lovely sam very nice thing to have do some retro reviews im sure you have many in your collection 🙂
Thank you Ciaran - I'll definitely do more retro stuff soon :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I've found vintage Wrenns don't like finer scale points like Trix C-track code 83 (2.1mm). Work fine on Peco code 100. The tyres are indeed course scale.
I love modern models, especially for their detail etc, but Dublo / Wrenn locos are still great.
Considering the basic loco chassis and motors were designed in the late 1930s, they still work!
I have a pre-war Dublo N2, that after a bit of TLC, runs perfectly well. These things are bomb proof! I do wonder how well a modern Hornby / Bachmann etc loco will run in 80+ years time?
Great to see Wrenn being used.
I think the old Doublo locos are far better value than the Wrenns: Greater detail & a lower price. Wrenns always look, well, clunky to me
I found the odd one out! Pause at 27:19 and you can see a blue WC/BOB class on the turntable. All the others were green.
9:30 This Wrenn West Country Locomotive Is A Bit Like Rebecca From Thomas The Tank Engine And Friends The Original Series. Thanks Sam'sTrains Dude Mate. X
in 1973 the rebuilt west country Wrenn had an RRP of £10.5 which put through the Bank of England inflation calculator is only £106.
I remember in the early 1970s going to TOYS TOYS TOYS in N. London to buy a Triang class 08 shunter which cost 2 weeks of my pocket money!
I'll try and find my late Wrenn pricelist. From memory they did start to get more expensive in real terms but not much more than Triang Hornby of the same year.
I have 3 Wrenn locos, all of them have been heavily modifiedwith new wheelsets, and motor gearbox units, they are the best running locos I have, when it comes to slow speed and pulling performance, One of mine is the Duchess of Hamilton, another is Silver link and the other is a 4-6-4 Tank. Apart from the slight whine from the gearboxes they are my best runners.
The ladder is probably the most realistic part of your loco, how many loco's ladders would have remained in the shape they left the works in real life.
As I live in Plymouth, I can appreciate this review. That crest is the city of Plymouths Coat of Arms.
The black white and green are pretty synonymous with the city, and the 4 towers represents 4 forts around the city, dating back to the English Civil War.
That's awesome!! And the coat of arms is a really nice touch :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Nice review Sam , i have a few Wrenn loco's my Duchess in BR express blue i have been offered a large amount of cash for it but since i have had it for over 45 years it ain't going no-where.
Next most expensive Engine episode will feature a 4-6-2 LNER Gresley prototype A1 with titanium chassis and running board with a hand carved emerald body featuring Ruby dust lining and gold plated running gear, and diamond glazed windows, and silver wheels and ivory and ebony cabin interior, and a amber firebox glow-stone
(Like this will ever happen)
Great vid Sam
I had a 1970s Wrenn rebuilt Wrenn West Country in which the large motor was mounted on a slope so the top end filled the entire cab. Overall it was quite a crude model but it had a certain charm and adding details such as flush glazing, finer ladders and coupling hooks improved it a lot.
Yes I know the ones! I agree, they do have a charm... and I'm sure it looked way better with those improvements!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
What a handsome locomotive. The flat pannels give it a sleek and modern look. I imagine they wash the trains with a brush on a long pole and a trolley of soapy water. Then another person going along behind hosing it off. But I could be completely wrong :-)
Strictly speaking, Wrenn did not develop this motor. It's the Hornby Dublo mechanism first seen on the A4 "Sir Nigel Gresley" model in 1938. In fact, the Wrenn chassis under this loco is actually a development of the Dublo A4 chassis (slightly different casting, modified axle mounting, slightly different armature design and obviously different valvegear). Interestingly, this chassis was also used under the Wrenn Royal Scot, albeit with different valvegear, wheels and no pony truck. The tender shown here is also a standard Dublo WC tender (that isn't strictly prototypical for unrebuilt locos). The only genuinely 'new' thing about this loco is the body, which Wrenn developed. By contrast, the Rebuilt WC is just a straight continuation of the Dublo West Country class with minor modifications.
Why not do a review/ comparison of the Triang Princess locomotives over the years, I think there has been at least three, maybe four. I have an original 1950s and a much later 1970s version. We can then see how far production has improved.
Hi Sam, Your engine and the Wrenn Royal Scot are two of the most expensive R+R vintage engines you can but. Both are wonderful. I would love to have them in my collection.
Its the magic charm that those Wrenn Models are radiate.
If you were up for it, you should find yourself a steam loco made by Bowser. They were primarily kits with a standard version or for a little extra, a super detail kit can be included, models prior to 1986 had their boilers cast in lead. They primarily made Pennsylvania Railroad prototypes along with a New York Central K-11 4-6-2, USRA heavy 4-8-2/ freelance 4-8-4, Union Pacific challenger and big boy. They have five pole open frame motors and although they may be a little temperamental at times, a well dialed bowser can outperform brand new models.
Remember the time you put this loco into a YO-box as a sponsorship advert to demonstrate how well protected those boxes are? That was so long ago... 🥲
I bought a Wrenn A4 Gannet wartime livery brand new for £50 back in the day and still have it in it's box only run twice
Sam I have an idea. As someone who has many points and switches on my layout I find some Engines struggle on my points with issues such as derailing or cutting out and I am most likely not the only one who has this issue. So for some people who may have many points you could add in your performance tests trying engines over points. Sorry if I seem Rude. However lovely to see another vintage Loco they have such a charm to them. Thanks.
I did not know this model existed and the detail is very good for a Wrenn engine. I have a Wrenn 34042 Dorcester (rebuilt) - new and unused - on display and think it is delightful in a tactile sense.
Glad to finally see you showing this guy off after you chickened out in the livestream series a while back XD
In all seriousness, I did like the look of it. I thought the front end looked really cool
hahaha yeah sorry about that - it was because it's buried away in it's box in the back room... it'd have taken ages to dig it out, haha!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Enjoyed the look back. Wouldn't mine seeing some more blasts from the past.
01:55 I might have some bias here, but 82? Great year ;D
Is the odd one out the blue West Country class on the turntable Sam? I say it’s that one as all the others are in some sort of green livery
Blimey and I thought my Rapido Apt-e was expensive 😂😮😮
That was great Sam. With an engineering background, it was enjoyable to see the difference in build.
Thank you so much- glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
12:45 Where are the cylinder blocks from spitfire?
It’s pretty neat that the West Country/Battle of Britain class is actually the basis for the Thomas character Rebecca while the character Neville is a Bulleid Q1 both engine basis for both Rebecca and Neville were designed by Oliver Bulleid.
I really enjoyed the review. To a certain degree, the Wren locomotives remind me of the American manufacturer Bowser. The old steam locos were all diecast, but they had a large dc71 open frame motor. With the weight, combined with the torque of the dc71 motors, these beasts will pull anything you put behind them. Detail was minimal, but brass detail kits were available.
I was surprised that the Wren didn't pull better with its weight. Perhaps, with a different motor, they would have pulled the paint off the wall. Very interesting looking locomotive.
Keep up the great reviews and congratulations on 10 YEARS !!!!
I would love to see you review the triang/hornby Caledonian blue single wheeler
Good afternoon Sam. A fascinating, fantastic video. G and R Wrenn are the ROLEX of model railways when i was growing up. To own a locomotive, coach or wagon made by this company was a privilege and a pleasure. You had made it in the model railway world BECAUSE THIS COMPANY AND THE ROLLING STOCK THEY PRODUCED WERE FOR CONNOISSEUR'S AND COLLECTORS. BRITISH made in Basildon in Essex. Yes they are double the price of Hornby, Lima and Airfix but they were worth it. PROPER trains with die cast chassis. Proper transfers on wagons like Dunlop or Bisto. It's a scandal Hornby did not rescue them in 1992 which is a shame. But the locomotive you own is a beautiful top class quality BRITISH made model locomotive, PURE ROLEX. I have City of Wells in Golden Arrow regalia absolutely stunning. Thank you Sam for sharing your locomotive with me.🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟👍
I’ve seen the golden arrow version of this before the rebuild at bury Bolton street a couple of yours ago
Yes please more vintage loco videos. And not clue what the "odd one out" is. Unless there is a Marchant Navey class in the sidings somewhere!
My favourite are pre war 3 rail locos. Those are incredible.
Ahh fantastic - yes they sure are cool :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I would love to see more older models and also want to see more one minute wonders
I thought the value of these Wrenns would go down when the new Hornby Dublo diecast ones came out? The new Merchant Navy is a very good model with the correct shade of SR green!
The chassis design looks very like the original Hornby Dublo chassis on the Class 4 2-6-4T, Duchesses, A4s, 0-6-2Ts.
Some of the Wrenn locos eg. City of Liverpool and City of London, had an open frame motor similar to some of the 8fs and Castles. These and others had the Dublo designed Ringfield motor. The reason I think Wrenn never used the Ringfield motor was probably so they vould measure the Backhead. The Ringfield and open frame motors both ran better and pulled more, so I'm very disappointed that that mechanism was used (I didnt know they did). That type of chassis was designed in the 1930s-40s.
If you wanted to improve running, you can get a five pole armature for this type of loco. There are a few firms that can supply them!
I brought that way back, sometime between 1975 and 1979, You said yours was made in the 1980s, so mine was possibly a previous tooling. I doubt it cost me more than £20. Sadly it went with the rest of my railway when I moved. I didn't get anything like £300 for it though :(
Hi Sam.
Do any makers produce models of really early stuff. Pre Copper Knob?
e.g. Beamish Museum, County Durham, England. Seen from the south, the locomotive Locomotion No. 1 stands at the east end of the single platform on the Pockerley Waggonway.
I'm surprised you actually reviewed and ranked such an old locomotive! I remember the last time you did this, you only put out five vintage loco reviews that year, all in their own rankings book.
Older model trains do have that charm to them, especially motor sounds over DCC sound systems.
Yeah I did used to do that - not done one for ages though, and I'm not sure if I'll review any more in the near future, so I didn't create a new logbook!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
OMG I have never seen a Wrenn SR West Country class loco, never even knew that they made one. And I have not seen any vintage loco with a box that looks brand new.
more vintage locos is a wonderful idea i say
i got my dad the Hornby R2215 LT Ed 18ct Gold Plated LMS 4-6-2 Princess Elizabeth Locomotive which he's kept in a display case & never run it. last i checked the value on one of them was around £1000-£2000 if never run & in pristine condition
Your loco must have been the last batch produced, as Wrenn ceased trading around 1992.
I remember seeing new Wrenn locos in the model shop back then, but rarely gave them much attention as they looked a little crude to what was on offer at the time.
As soon as Wrenn ceased trading, the locos disappeared off the shelves, and were being advertised at least 3-4 times the original shop price, it literally happened overnight.
Hi sam
I hope you are well?
I really love this review
I wish you would review more older models
What a stunner model in my opinion
Thank you for sharing your models with us
Keep safe ARP
Thanks Adi! Got a really exciting couple of videos on the way soon if you like the older locos! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
With modern Loco's at over £200 and Coaches at £60 each, it might be worth highlighting some of the better older models, so that newer members to the community can start with more affordable options. 😊
@@Citalopram40 I like buying "non-running" locos off of Hattons for cheap and fixing them up, most of the time they just need a bit of cleaning and lubrication.
@@BAKU2K2 I too like buying non runners to add to my collection. At the moment I have a Hornby LNER B12 on the bench that I have reassembled and added DCC; just got to add pickups to the Tender, for smoother running. 🙂
It kinda reminds me of the Matthew Flinders off the Victoria Railways.
We thoroughly enjoyed this. I can remember my dad having those boxes in the mid 1970's. How do you recharge a magnet ?
Ronald Dodds has some vids on the recharger he sells and demonstrates it on his Hornby Dublo models.
Nice video Sam. To me there is something special about Wrenn and Dublo locos and certainly this loco is in the style of Dublo. Some other positives are that these locos are robustly built and wont fall apart in your hands like some finely detailed modern locos. Apart from the rare items like this generally good specimens can be had for more reasonable prices than modern alternatives. If we are honest Wrenn did do some strange things during their history with liveries and finishes of their locos although this particular model looks pretty good and not bad on accuracy. To me running Wrenn or Dublo is about running high quality toy trains more than model railways-I think, though, there is a place and fun to be had from both!
I've got a couple of old Doublo locos and they are really extremely robust, and IMO more detailed, much cheaper and therefore better value than the Wrenn models.
I do like looking at the older locos, most of mine aren’t modern because I can’t afford new lol but I enjoy seeing the older ones running!
Great video!
Cheers Dan :)
The tender wheels should definitely be BRB Boxpok as well as the loco. Seeing spoked wheels looks odd
Most newer Japanese steam locos had Bulleid style wheels, maybe they really are better than spoked wheels.
Well, that is a tad debatable! What Sam said is mostly true, but when a Boxpok wheel went, it went! If a spoked wheel sometimes warped and/or shrank, then Boxpok cracked and/or split. It was a tad more durable, but boy, did you need your ultrasonic testing to pickup nascent cracks! Good job that Bullied was a pioneer of ultrasonic testing!
Great to see a Wrenn review! They are very special aren't they! I've got a Wrenn City of Wells West Country, 3-railed for running with Hornby Dublo, along with several other Wrenn locos. I think you will probably get better performance with a more powerful controller, mine shows better torque. The other Wrenn models that they made 'new' as opposed to continuing Dublo models were the un-rebuilt Royal Scot and the Brighton Belle although the mechanisms were essential Dublo style still. The un-rebuilt WC/BofB tender was the same as the Dublo rebuilt West Country so the tooling dates from late 1961! Why they only put one ladder on the back I'll never know! One of my Dublo ones has had the 2nd added as per the 1:1 versions! How about getting hold of some old Dublo 3-rail track and locos and reviewing them - the Castle, dating from, I think 1957, was the 'gold standard' for many years and still stands up well. I also run more modern locos but I doubt if they will still be running when they are 60 to 70 years old and enjoy such a good spares availability!
Odd one out: Merchant Navy on the turntable
I am pretty sure that the odd one out is the Hornby Merchant Navy Class. The Hornby Merchant Navy is my favourite model steam loco and so I recognised it immediately 😅
Thanks for showing us that (again) Sam. Is the cab detail engraved rather than raised? Looks like it, but hard to tell in 2D. More of a show-and-tell than a normal review and I liked that. That model has a good caretaker!
Very interesting and nostalgiic video, Sam - brought a tear to the eye seeing the Wrenn model!
Was the blue Merchant Navy class on the turntable the odd one out?
Found a Wreen catalogue dated January 1978 which lists their new Royal Scot models W2260/1 at £29.50 (but available only after May) - no mention of the unrebuilt WC, so guess that must have come later still. The ex-Hornby Dublo rebuilt WC 'Barnstaple' in BR livery and 'Lyme Regis' in SR livery were priced at £25.95 each.
Hi Sam - beautiful old engine. I’ll be at TMC tomorrow, don’t think they’ll have many in stock 😉
Oh that's cool I have a Hornby west country 21c101 Exeter limited edition of 1000 produced 1995
Wow Sam, she's beautiful! Very good quality for its age, but then again wren are known for locos that stand the test of time! Great video sam
Hornby Dublo tenders were made of tin plate, when they bought the Dublo tooling they did not buy the tooling for the tin plate tenders and instead bought in plastic tenders from Hornby Triang, so the tenders are a bit naff compared with the locomotives.
The H/D (rebuilt) Bulleids arrived about 1958 & had a plastic tender from the start. I think that mould was still used till the end of Wrenn.
An honest review and great to see. Thanks for sharing this with us.
£55 more expensive than the Bradford Exchange 'In Memory' train
Fab to see, I remember in the 60s when I was young I always wanted a Wrenn but could not afford one
P.s. it did run well and had the Smoke Generator, that worked too..!
It may have been a Hornby /Triang production. I cant recall.
😎
Blimey! I've got a couple of boxed Wrenn locos, I'd better check and see if they are worth a bit these days.
They are awesome for their age, but I'm not a vintage loco collector so giving them a better home makes sense.
And if I'm lucky I can afford a new loco or 2.
I like Wrenn, probably my favorite OO locomotives, especially the ones based off of Hornby Dublo tooling.
There is magic in them, that's very true!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam,this may be a controversial opinion.
If you ever make a Cabinet of your favorite models(or if you already have)this deserves to be in it.