As a goth with many steamgoth, steampunk and neo-Victorian friends, and as a museum curator who, a few years ago, curated a major steampunk exhibition, I have to say that I find this stuff to be horrific and embarrassing. Literally any ordinary Hornby steam engine is more steampunk than this rubbish. Steampunks love steam engines and well-engineered machinery, especially with a Victorian aesthetic. Steampunk design is precise and beautiful, the exact opposite of badly "painted" blobs of resin! Hornby really missed a trick here though, because the first steampunks of all were the real-life pioneers of steam locomotion, men like Trevithick, Hedley, Blenkinsop, Stephenson and Brunel. Hornby should have developed more early Era 1 "travelling engines" for their main range and gone from there. If there are any steampunk model railway enthusiasts out there, I think they may well just use "Rocket" or "Lion" or any 19th century model as the basis for their creations. Anything but this!
I always felt that Rocket and the really early locomotives were a bit primitive. But they do have the PERFRCT locomotive and coach set in their range with little to no modification required, the GWR single 'Lord of the Isles' being later Victorian. Give that and the Clerestories a fancy intricate livery in something other than the usual GWR and it would have been job done! I oft envisaged a beam engine to drive a cantilevered platform which would extend out to meet the train. Hornby made a mistake in using Laurie Calverts creations as inspiration, as fun as his creations are. I would never describe them as Steampunk...they're far too dystopian and lean too far into sci-fi.
@@Simon-Davis It's a broad church, steampunk, covering anything from Victorian style laptops to complete alternative sci-fi universes with steam-powered airships, etc, so, yeah, almost anything is possible. As you say, the most beautiful Victorian trains are a good starting point, although those early "Puffing Billy" style efforts with all their cogs and levers on display just scream "steampunk" to me. It's a broad church, from which I still think these Hornby efforts should be excommunicated!
@@shona1578 To this day I still think the best Steampunk vision was that initially set out by Hayao Miyazaki in 'Laputa, Castle in the Sky', a cartoon originally created for the long haul Asian flights in the mid 1980s. Everything from a grand representation of a Welsh style mining town, with a really simple tram engine running on a huge elevated wooden trestle to a huge almost German wartime armoured train. And those flying machines and airships he created! The world he expanded on in subsequent feature length animations is nothing short of effortlessly sublime. Hornby should have taken note, Steampunk can be done very well very easily...just don't overcomplicate things and make them look believable. Sticking pointless gears and widgets on slapdash just doesn't cut the clotted cream.
I'm so glad you mention early steam locos as great foundations for steampunk, anything beyond 1890 kinda looks too modern and therefore more teslapunk (atleast personally).
@@uniquely.mediocre1865 Yes. The British railway system was literally built by steampunks, men in top hats who ignored convention and threw high pressure steam at everything. The Era 1 period started with loads of whacky experiments, and people like Francis Trevithick and Brunel were still pushing the boundaries into the '50s. Brunel is HUGE in the steampunk movement.
I was once told that the point of Steampunk were if modern technology were to suddenly vanish, it would be replaced with steam based technology instead and steampunk is an exploration of how that would change technology and is often expressed through fashion. Thus, a steampunk train would be... a train
I don't think the basic concept of steampunk model railways is bad, but I think Hornby went in the wrong direction. It seems like they tried to create their own ill-defined fictional universe for it, which honestly felt like a mess. There's dinosaurs and there's some sort of war and a hatter or something? If it were up to me, I'd have done the range thus. 1. The basic setting is Victorian. Hornby has lots of pre-Grouping tooling that really isn't detailed enough for modern standards - the Dean Single, CR No. 123, the GNR J52, the GWR 2721 pannier, the NBR J83. Coaching stock is 4-wheelers and/or Triang clerestories. For wagons, anything small and old-fashioned. Then go to town on the liveries. Bam, a whole range of "steampunk" trains with zero tooling investment. 2. Instead of sticking gears on buildings, the resin scenery should be inspired by existing 19th century fiction. A Martian cylinder, a waterline model of the Nautilus, Frankenstein's lab, 221B Baker Street. This could appeal to steampunk modellers, but also war gamers and even ordinary modellers who just want something fun on their layout.
Hornby seem to be digging their own grave incredibly successfully. Where I live the constant from the resellers is this.They cant get the stock!. So if Hornby are unable to ship stock from China to Australia to sell how can you make money. Hornby have only just raised all their prices so that gets translated into a higher price to the customer. TT120 is a classic example, incredibly difficult to buy and as for any track packs or scenery forget it. Whats sort of weird about TT120 is sure it's a smaller scale but the bang for buck is not there vs Hornby's 00 range. And did anyone ever ask for a smaller scale range from Hornby? This Hornby Steam Punk stuff looks bone ugly and lazy. You just wonder if the twit behind the idea still has a job at Hornby. Anyway Hornby share price is going for $0. 'The Big Hornby Short' TM is well and truly on.
I think the major problem with these was just the blatant case of "not giving a toss" . It literally just looks like they went to the local scrap merchant, bought a box of junk from them and just dumped a load of glue and the junk on regular 0-4-0s and called it a day. Now, if these were done properly, inspired by Jules Verne, victorian visions of the future with lots of ruby red, scheele's green, shiny brass and more outlandish and out there designs i think the story would have been quite a different one. But alas, that would need time and effort something that they weren't going for. I'm just disappointed more than anything
Yeah absolutely - as many have pointed out, this stuff is not steam punk... it's just regular items with gears and other gubbins stuck all over it. That's obvious to anyone who's actually seen Steampunk done properly. Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I'm not sure more individual "better" designs would have faired much better, even if well-done. As sam pointed out actual individuality is a key point in a steampunk. And the resin - poorly moulded from indifferent masters and then dry brushed in silver over black primer, before being fitted to the single cheapest and smallest chassis available - smacks of a product produced in a hurry by people who simply didn't care. I'm left wondering if they'd promised some potential investor that they had a new exciting range just launching and this was an attempt to make good on that.
Honestly, I think the range was a great move from Hornby, but I think the problem really lies in the fact that modellers usually model realistic railways, and not so many model the steampunk world, like you said. Great video as always sam!
@@SamsTrains @jackstrains4468 its the same story like Märklin's Alpha Trains from the late 80ties/early90ties. They were "beautiful" stes ( I have one) - but "out of an other world" not fitting on a normal model railway setup.
Then you’re mad as a hatter. It’s about as useful as TT120. Pity the poor Hornby shareholders. Hopefully some fresh thinking, some respect shown to OO Modellers ( who are king in this game) and admission of defeat with Rails of Sheffield, should restore some respect to this tarnished name . Coca-Cola my arse!
I think the real problem was that it wasn't a range that really should've been called "steampunk." If you look online at steampunk railway concepts it's nothing like the terrible things Hornby released. They took the most basic models and just chucked random pipes and cogs on them and gave them an awful silver-ish paint job. A company could produce a great steampunk range if they actually look at actual steampunk community artworks and world concepts.
Hi Sam, personally I’m not a Steampunk fan but I do ‘get’ Laurie’s initial concept of Kato Pass and all that it entailed - hand made body shells with some thought processes behind it. The whole point about them was their individuality, nothing else existed like them and seeing them working on his exhibition layout was ‘Interesting’. But for me that’s all it was - interesting. Laurie was - or so I believe - the designer of this rubbish from Bassett Lowke which was where it all went wrong in my opinion, a better idea would have been to produce packets of cogs, springs or whatever other rubbish could be placed on a bare shell so that folk could customise them themselves and spray them to their individual choice. I think that would have given each one it’s individuality which as far as I can make out is the essence of Steampunk plus given the person creating them a few hours of enjoyment creating them. These items are so poor in quality and appearance that it doesn’t do any justice for Steampunk in general. ………Graham
The saddest thing is that they sell them under the Bassett Lowke name. A company with rich prewar history torn to bits… They could have made O gauge stuff or even live steam powered locomotives like mamod (what Bassett Lowke is mostly known about). They sadly chose the 3rd option “parts bin”
The thing for me is that steampunk is an aesthetic, more than a culture or a genre or anything else, it’s a vibe and a design style - and it’s one that can vary from very grounded (basically take existing Victorian technology and extrapolate) up to very outlandish with lots of gears and wacky proportions. So Hornby were never going to please everyone with this range - I’m actually big into steampunk but more on the former side - so if I want the aesthetic I’ll just buy an Era 1 locomotive or something! XD
Steampunk isn't exactly my favorite aesthetic, but I do respect it and the community. I don't like that Hornby actually tried to release these as serious models for the serious modeler instead as something marketed towards kids like Lionel's Polar Express line. As has been stated, if I wanted to do a steampunk train, I'd either make it myself or I'd just buy stuff from either Athearn or BLI, or just scour the used market for cheap used Tycos and fix those up (since they're pretty much of little value otherwise).
haha exactly - I think they could have created better Steampunk locos by just taking some of their existing Victorian models and just giving them interesting liveries - would love to see how that would look! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains and potentially sticking a few more pipes onto it. from all the images I've seen of actual steampunk trains, they still have more pipework than usual. (not defending Hornby at all, these models still absolutely suck)
How's this then. I pointed out to Montana that their 37s, 57s and some 66s had already been produced number wise by Bachmann. I said that this makes no sense because there were others to choose from and collectors like me are looking for the un produced running numbers. Her reply was unbelievable. "we are making these for new modellers as well who might not have the Bachmann ones". I couldn't believe that reply. Make one number different and the new and old collectors will buy it!. Now that shows a complete lack of not only business sense but also common sense. I have cancelled over £4000 of orders with Hornby over the last few years due to their decisions and price hikes.
@@maringarvanovic8011There was a documentary recently that was supposed to mark their comeback, but to me it really made them look bad. It's a long story but the point that stuck out to me was their laser focus on trying to undercut a competitor and beat them to market with the same models, rather than making something new and original that people actually want to buy. I had been rooting for them to stay in business but that really left a bad taste in my mouth.
I agree. The move to china 🇨🇳 was a mistake, at least I think that is where they moved their manufacturing to. Should have been to an adjacent county who has a better reputation for quality products. But, I like the Steam Punk themes and ideas, but as I see it, they look like half melted plastic. Plus, the paint job just exacerbates the bad look.
@@paulw9516 Yeah, the paint job looks like something from the dollar store. I've seen what Hornby paint can be when they're trying and this just isn't it.
Yeah, I agree. When this first came out I didn't think it had legs, and not seeing anyone else championing it online is a shame when new ranges should be an exciting time in our hobby. I think this would have gone better had Hornby done "steampunk builder sets" - put all the parts and various other bits and pieces in a box and let the modeller stylise their loco and stock how they want to make them more unique
I think the biggest issue is the whole thing was really half-arsed from Hornby. Lauries original works and layouts are spectacular, and always a favourite when he takes them to model shows, but when Hornby bought his idea, they pit nowhere near as much effort into making them as he did. As per usual, they just did it as cheaply as possible with as many existing toolings and models as possible and slapped an existing name (Bassett-Lowke) onto it to entice people in. I bet if a more thoughtful and passionate company made these, they would be a hit.
You're right - Laurie's layout is indeed spectacular, but mainly because of how unique it was! I think it's too much to try and mass produce stuff like this, it was always going to look low-effort Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hornby will never learn from their mistakes. They are just going to continue making mistakes until they will go bankrupt which can happen at anytime Sam.
Steampunk is a very niche market. And like Sam said it's a creative community who like to create, not buy off the shelf. I sometimes think if the big model companies just sat down and talked to one another they could makes some real progress. Instead of chasing each other to release the same products, they could expand and focus on the myriad of other locomotives and rolling stock out there to make. For Example, Hornby makes a A1x Terrier and someone else makes a variety of LBSCR wagons or coaches to go behind. It would be huge!
Yeah that's right - I wonder how many steampunk enthusiasts want railways but don't want to create the stuff themselves... not many I'd guess! I think even if they could collaborate, the manufacturers wouldn't because the market is quite cut-throat... it's shrinking because of their high prices and low quality, and the manufacturers really have to fight for our money! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I have no idea how I ended up on this channel since I'm not a model train person. But I do like steampunk. But at those prices/quality I will just 3D print something. Assuming it was good. And came and kit form so it could be modified to taste easily. I would be willing to pay money. Now I want a steampunk train in 32mm minis scale, with "CHOO CHOO MOTHER 🦆ERS!" written on the front/battering ram. Then I can roll it around the table to each player on their turn.
I will never understand why Hornby don't approach people like you Sam to get a true perspective of what the general model enthusiast wants from the hobby.
approach with anyone with common sense really. Steam punk is a very niche group anyway and then your wanting another niche group ie modellers, within that group. Makes no sense at all. The market was always going to be so small it was not worth it, and it does not appeal to the larger group of modellers either so where was this going to sell? Who thought this was a good oppurtunity?
@@retrorambles517 really lol? so they sent this to the few people that do the steam punk thing and found modellers in amongst them lol? I dont think so.
Hi Sam, I did enjoy the range i couldnt beleive they actually did it you know, but the lack of veriety was a major issue. all the loco's were painted the same colour and same goes for the rolling stock and buildings for the most part, I think a tender loco like the dean single or their old 440s would have made it better and they could of just recycled those old loco's like they did the 040s. I saw straight away that it would affend the steampunk comminuty as they just stuck gears to everything which is the big number 1 rule that you dont do, I'm not super knowledgable on steampunk but I do know that. I would have liked this range to stick around a bit longer as I'm not very good at creating models myself but i think its dead at this point. I do plan to use it on my main layout as a theme park sort of thing when I get my own house so i'll have space for it. Thanks for the video Sam 🙂
hi sam. it really seems like hornbys pricing and cheaply made products are taking their toll on the companies financial state of affairs. at this rate expect hornby to increasing their already bloated prices. the only cure for them now is to reduce prices and improve the materials used on their models and not promote gimmicks.
I agree with you that it's a major misreading of the market by Hornby. These would be attractive to, specifically, steampunk enthusiasts who want to get into model railroading. An interesting idea, but how many of those can there be? Precious few, I fear.
A note on the coach, that 'pipe' looks suspiciously like a runner/sprue from the waste pile in their injection moulding process, that they've crudely cut down with some blunt pliers
As someone with the gift of sight, I don't like them. The 3 locos look like someone glued random items to an existing loco, with includes a barrel of a Games Workshop Necron Destroyer gun barrel on the front and drinking straws. Oh, and then finished in a nasty drybrush? They just don't scream 'buy me', so why would I?
I kind of like the locos that you've presented now. The streamlined one looks like a shrunken down Mallard , and the one with massive fans on the hood looks like a turbo-jet train. 😅
If, and I don’t know if they do, but, IF, they still have access to the old Triang Davy Crockett toolings (incl clerestory coaches), surely they missed the opportunity to go full on Doc Brown, Back to the Future III style with a suitably steam punk themed set. Some appropriate, and, not blobby modifications, and hey presto. Surely would have been better than what looks like Smokey Joe having a run-in with the Scrap Man and being defecated out the other end.
If I wanted a cheapo Hornby 0-4-0 with random junk glued to it which was painted black with silver dry brushing, I could go to any model shop in the country and buy the loco, junk, glue, paint and a brush for half the price. In fact, I might have to try that.
To be honest, I like the range. Mostly the funny looking wagons. The locomotives I don't like too much, except the diesel. If it appeared in a local shop, I would buy one for 22£. However, I think it's interesting that Hornby experiments with different ways to try and get youngsters ( who I think this range is aimed at ), into the hobby. But in the end, it's a fun side thing and as long as it doesn't occupy too much time and manpower, I'm more than happy with the range, but if they did something completely unique and not recycle a basic chassis I think there would be a fair chance it would at least be a small success. I remember your original video, but didn't expect you to buy another one.
hahahaha I think I'd take the locos for free for the chassis... but the rolling stock/buildings I wouldn't want for any amount of money xD Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Back in 1957 Lionel produced their infamous "girls train": standard 027 equipment painted in marvellous pastel hues of pinks, blues, and yellows. These sold for just a couple of years, the second year just being unsold inventory from the unpopular range. Turned out that when a girl wanted a train, she, like most, wanted it to actually look like a train (unbelievably Lionel did a couple of preproduction sets for a "boys train" in blues and blacks before someone actually figured out that boys are already happy with the look of their existing trains). Fast forward to triang and the "battlespace" range. Slow selling, again unsold stock lingering on for years. Curiously enough, train buyers seem to be quite keen on models that resemble the real things. They have done since the first mass toy trains appeared 180 years ago, although only available as 2d lead flats, they still looked and were painted like the real things. Excellent video Sam, nice to see something a bit more immersive :) By the way, poor old Wenman J B-L would be turning in his grave since the turn of the twentieth century endeavouring to produce accurate, scale models, museum train pieces, and with Mr Greenley really starting the whole scale modelling that we know so well today. It was him whom first did 4mm to the foot, and basically started the whole affordable modelling saga with the seminal Bing table railway. And here his hallowed name is plastered on something that I'm sure my daughter made at kindy...
I like the line, because it’s something different. I have collected most of the pieces, which hasn’t been easy in the USA and I’ve only found out about these around a year ago. I do think the locomotives should have had a better paint job. When I think Steampunk, brass, copper, gears and leather comes to mind. All 3 locos having the same brushed metal paint scheme made them look too similar. It would have been nice if the wagons where different colors instead of all of them being red. Hornby could have at least painted all the piping on the locos and wagons a brass color. I plan on making a small, multi tier Steampunk layout. I will incorporate Hornby’s back stories on the various items with ideas I have. It will be fun, because I don’t have to worry about what’s prototypical.
They may turn up at reasonable prices at Trainworld of Brooklyn. This has happened before when Hornby had an over supply of locomotives in the early eighties with the rush to video games and other factors. By the early nineties Trainworld were advertising close out pricing of $60 on Stephenson Rocket sets in Model Railroader. Myself and a work colleague sent off from Australia and order for five if these sets that were usually $300 in Australia . On receiving these Trainworld included further close out pricing of numerous other Hornby locomotives at $15 to $30. From E2 and M7 tanks to A4s at the top price. Not sure if Trainworld got burnt at the closeout prices or just passing on Hornby getting rid of stock and not upsetting UK retailers who would not know about it. All pre internet so harder for a clearance price not to cause grief to retailers who paid more for their stock sitting in shelves than retail closeout price.
An own goal by Hornby. I always thought launching this range was a weird move. Reminds me of the dying days of Dinky Toys in the late 1970s when they were churning out hamfistedly customised versions of tired old castings in the hope that they would appeal to kids. They didn't and it was a case of when rather than if parent company Airfix would pull the plug and axe the ailing brand along with the famous Binns Road factory.
I agree with ModelMinutes. I think Hornby should instead have tried selling unpainted versions of their models, supplied with various parts and a leaflet of ideas. From The Great Model Railway Challenge I can see that Hornby thought it was worth exploring and, using their tried and tested basic stock, meant there was little risk to them in terms of much investment. Hence, their loss has been more one of cashflow with money tied up in this until they can sell it such that they can at least cover its cost. I recall my nephew commenting that Hornby were trying to sell it cheaply at, I think, last year's Dorset Steam Fayre. Overall, I am afraid that I always thought that it was rather too niche and specialised but with me also wondering if I was being too conservative. I just hope Hornby can recover and for attempts like this not to make them too unadventurous in the future.
Yet again a massive failure down to Simon Kohler. As usual you are spot on. Steam Punk fans want to create their own designs so Hornby really did have no idea what they were doing.
Good little video Sam. As you alluded to if Hornby actually researched what is going on in the big bad world of ours they'd stop wasting time, money, resources and concentrate on their core business, "OO"! Imo as a consequence they're in financial difficulties and (perhaps) out of desperation resorting to uncompetitive price increases to make ends meet! My belief is that the TT range will also fail to catch on as i think they're trying to fill a niche market. I stand to be corrected but to my knowledge Acurascale et al are not dabbling in such markets and instead focusing on their strenghts producing quality models at mostly affordable prices. Keep up the excellent work you do!
The somehow remind me of the science-fiction line from Märklin, called Märklin Alpha. The locomotive was also based on a standard entry-level steam locomotive. The difference, IMHO, is that Märklin Alpha rolling stock was cool, probably over designed, but cool.
Ok, from a technical point of view, one issue I see is that these are 0-4-0s being sold to a subset of the model railroading market that seems to not know that turnouts with powered frogs exist. Every time I've seen someone in the UK complain about a short-wheelbased locomotive losing power on turnouts, I mention that they should try powered frogs and the responses generally boil down to "I should have thought of that".
you beat me "to that though the figures that they produced for that range would have to be to 5mm/ft scale (with a few larger at 8.5mm/ft), furthermore they would only be orderable from a website on alternate tuesdays between 04:25 and 04:39 gmt.
When I think of steampunk, I don’t think of a steam powered, silver scrap pile. I picture an industrial, Victorian city and flying machines with brown, gold, brass and off-white colour schemes. The wagons look perfect, if we’re taking my stereotypical approach, that is
Clearly this is a case of someone saying "I have a great idea" and in typical British fashion no one says let's actually do some research and find out its a crazy idea.
Sam, your review is spot on. You have said it all. As we all know Hornby's fortunes have taken a tumble recently and maybe Steampunk was the beginning of their troubles. I don't know how they could make such a poor business decision. At best it's obvious to most that it would only be a short lived fad. I can't see Simon Kohler going for this with much enthusiasm. But someone on high made the final decision. Is this the same company that brought us the fantastic Q6 and J50 (and others) at great prices? When Simon left the first time I believe it was because he didn't like the direction Hornby was going in. Is this the real reason he "retired"? David Parkin
Love your sense of humour, great video. I did think you were generous with your score though. Your comments about this and the TT range made me think, have these been seen as a failure and promoted the removal of Mr Kohler?
it was this style of locos and rolling stock that got me back into the hobby, i brought them cheaply off Amazon and I completely agree it’s all nonsense and isn’t very traditional by railway standards but it’s unique and unusual that’s why I do actually really enjoy this range
I think that the blocky 'Dieselpunk' (yes, really) engine is meant to run cab first - those jet engines are backwards if not - the ends with the fans are the intakes, making the jets go to the rear. It's really not good.
Beyond my understanding, as I have previously said. Can sort of imagine one of these going through the Pine Barrens with the Jersey Devil on the footplate.
As a model painter, this is toddler standard painting. Its a basic starter 0-4-0 with an uglier body shell with the absolute WORST drybrushing in silver 🤮
These "steampunk" models (the locos and rolling stock) look more "post-apocalyptic" to me. A post-apocalyptic layout would look amazing and i actually might try making that.
It's the usual problem with corporations. They took too long to respond to the market. If Hornby had launched this series three or four years earlier, I think they'd have seen a lot more sales. Somebody at Hornby was probably saying at that time "steampunk's just a fad, let's see if it lasts before we do anything" they waited till the steampunk scene peaked, developed their products, then released them just in time for the scene to fade. I don't think this lineup was ever meant to seriously appeal to adults, these are for kids, and with that market in mind, their timing was way off. Kids rarely stick around after the hype dies off, they move on to something else.
Those jet engines on the diesel are facing backwards. It looks like the nozzle of the engine is at the front of the loco and the compressor section is at the back nearer the cab!
Personally, I feel they should have tested the waters with rolling stock. If they advertised a bogie coach with a steampunk theme, like a 'Frankenstein's Observation Coach' with lights and a mad scientist motif, or 'Dracula's Dining Coach' with red tinted windows and black livery with red stripes, then its fun enough to buy one of for say Halloween, or as a little gimmick. Its horror themed, its Victorian era themed, its testing the waters for steampunk, but staying in the right era and theme to do so. There doesnt need to be a locomotive immediately at the start. Heck, a rake of all black coaches with red tinted windows, maybe some lights? That'd look grand behind an express locomotive on a layout. Put effort into these things, and approach it from two angles, not just 'put gears on it'.
That Steam Punk range reminds me of that video you did about a train running underwater. These Steam Punk locos would make ideal aquarium ornaments! Hey, that's your next video - an Aquarium Layout!
It would be interesting to see if you could design and 3D print one of your own and see if you can address all the issues you had with these. A bit like the era 1 wagons.
In all fairness, Hornby, Bachman and many others, spent alot of time and effort to develop the models( creditworthy?) So is many other developers of models of steam models, diesel and electric prototypes from the 1st drawings photos and all tools to the making of the mould range to make the models a reality. Some models(beginner level)may not be as finely detail as a model for the master modeller its all the same idea to make money. However the age of 3d printing is allowing most people to produce models of prototypes. These do not always look the part at best or at worse, dont even represent it due to any given factor in the development stage and individuals will extort(especially in SA)with poor quality models churned out on 3d printers, and other methods with resin moulding. Though the idea seems noble, the aftermath can be brutal. No more quality models at afforddable prices essentially killing the hobby itself
Hornby's thinking even extended to 2012 Olympic ideas, including a powered velodrome. . . . compared to that wisdom, the steampunk idea wasn't all bad. It's just a shame that they waste so much time and effort on such useless, unwanted, limited shelf life things., but, they are Hornby, and that's, sadly, what many of us have come to expect. I sadly predict the rapid downfall of TT120, more so now with no S.K. and Montana, and also a potential failure with HM7000, Hornby can't do electronics. . . . even the bloody chips don't fit in most locomotives....
My biggest problem with the range is the lack of modern loco's in steampunk style. Something like a shinkansen or TGV but steam powered. Stuff like that.
Reminds me of the 2008 film "Mutant Chronicles". Could make for a fantastic retro futuristic layout with time and a keen artistic mindset. The problem stopping me from getting back into the hobby regardless of the era of trains and sets is the damn price. I don't have a chance.
They're like a cross between Mad Max, smashing through barriers, and the House Robots from Robot Wars, particularly Shunt. They are freaky and grotesque indeed, but definitely a unique and interesting addition to Sam's collection of locos. Sam loves trains so much that he could be the proverbial mother who would love these punkish misfits that only a mother could love.
If they made the railroad class 40 or class 37 steam punk I would definitely try it out. Instead they made the basic starter set locos. No dcc ready just dc.😢
If I’m honest, Hornby would have much better luck in their fortunes trying to bring back their Thomas range than making products like this. A steampunk model railway range sounds interesting on paper, but it frankly appeals to an incredibly niche audience - niche even by rail or model rail enthusiast standards!
Thanks for the review, informative as always. I’ve actually pondered this question myself. I applaud Hornby for what they were trying to do here, I believe the hobby needs more fantasy products as it so often gets stuck in a rabbit hole of realism and authenticity at the expense of joy. HOWEVER, their execution and cynical approach you described missed the mark dramatically! The locos also lack the Victoriana on steroids aesthetic I associate with steam punk anyway! I actually have the “big diesel one” that I plan to repaint into a sci-fi military livery as I quite like the absurd jet engines plonked on the nose. I got it for £20 on Amazon only I had a £15 voucher at the time so it only cost me a fiver! All the best!
I feel that part of the issue of this was that, really not an awful lot of thought seams to have been put in to the models themselves. Like the carriages and wagons were just standard stuff with some cogs glued on to them. The locos had a little more work done but yeah... Sort of like instead of getting people who are actually in to steam punk to design things they got people to printrest steam punk and glue bits on to already existing things. Maybe a way they could have done it would have been as model kits? Mix Airfix and trains together. Get a model kit to make a tank engine with all sorts of random cogs and pipes along with a basic boiler, maybe already mounted to a chassis to make attaching the additional parts easier for people with not a lot of experience modelling? Include a few cab designs, tank and bunker options and yeah let the buyer have at it
You are right, if you wanted to market these to steam punk enthusiasts you should really provide undecorated bodies of railroad locos and a kit of steam punk parts to add as you choose. That way you at least hit two markets, as regular modellers would also go for them as a cheap customisation starter. Sadly this has damaged the Basset Loke name, which could have been used for high end, non Dublo models.
Hi Sam, funny review, I purchased the “Diesel” loco and 2 coaches I payed no where near the RRP!!! I run them on my layout from time to time for a laugh, weird idea, Hornby were clueless in my opinion with this concept. Cool and interesting though.
I just realised what the diesels description was talking about its war of the worlds! From my guess’s they wanted to make some sorta armoured train for war of the worlds (and failed)
i think the most ironic part is these are more dieselpunk than steampunk (steampunk has alot of copperwork and exposed machinery, gauges and valves where dieselpunk is iron, exhaust pipes everywhere, and overall just more industrial looking)
I noticed that the blurb for that diesel engine contains the phrase: 'Designed by committee'. That sums up this entire sad range. Someone, possibly Winston Churchill, said: "The camel is a horse designed by a committee." I rest my case, M'Lud.
I think people would prefer to build their own, not buy mass produced. This does show Hornby's attitude to customers. They do not care. No customer service at all. After watching one of your reviews on the Centenary Peckett's, I ordered two of them and some coaches and parts off their website. Six weeks later, they still had not sent my order. Their website still said they were all still in stock. So, I emailed, and the response was, "We will get to it" So I rang (from Australia), and again the so-called customer service did not care at all. Around the same time, a little bit before, I had a similar problem trying to get the Centenary Stephens rocket set. My order was cancelled by Hornby and so I did not get one until I found one in Australia. Someone was selling it because the tender wiring was broken out of the box. So now I will not buy any Hornby models. Too expensive compared to other manufacturers, and the quality is very poor. Total lack of customer service. I was a member for a few years, but now I no longer pay to be treated like dirt and insulted and ripped off. Goodbye, Hornby.
Yes Hornby are struggling...and have gone bust many times before. However....so have EVERY other manufacturer. Its not hornby...its the industry I'm afraid.
0:58 a figure that's 10 cm tall?! That's the same size as those Bachmann Thomas figures, which were originally marketed as HO scale but have since been sold as G scale ones. I wonder how big the steampunk diesel is compared to O scale? I had an HO scale diesel switcher that was bigger than the rest of the trains I owned, and was convinced it could be On30. I do agree that these locomotives would become a great way to get chassis cheaply and make your own bodies for them.
Rather than introduce a steam punk range or even invest in TT 120, in my opinion Hornby should introduce the fabulous range of British locos and rolling stock in HO gauge using either Rivarossi or Lima as a vehicle, or why not under the Hornby banner. I’m sure that they would enjoy much more success. Who wouldn’t want an A3 or an A4 on their layout with matching rolling stock in HO. The different liveries of the pre unification would certainly be a welcome addition to any HO enthusiast. Point in question. The Trix A3 Flying Scotsman is completely sold out, and theire isn’t even any suitable coaches to go along with it. I truly believe Hornby is missing out! Cheers
I don't think there's much of a market for HO products in Britain. For Hornby to make HO products, they'd basically need to sell exclusively in the USA, which probably won't lead to financial success.
@@theelectricmonk3909 I confirm. As a continental modeller, I might certainly be interested by an UK models HO range. When I see the ongoing feud between OO, EM, and P4, I think UK HO would have an interesting market share, and a nice chance to start. Especially while backed up by continental, Uk, and even Down Under modellers, already on HO scale.
@@MrJoeyWheeler Not necessarily. If you look at the Rivarossi brand, you will notice a wide variety of HO gauge models from different countries, including 4 Canadian Pacific box cars. In my opinion TT120 was specifically design to merge British prototypes with the European counterparts, enabling continental modellers the opportunity to run a diverse layout. I’m sure Arnold should have been the proper choice for TT 120, as they already manufacture it. There is a unique opportunity here for Hornby to establish British HO. Considering the lack lustre sales of TT120, I think that they should at least consider the move to HO.
I'm not sure if anyone's commented on this before, but as amazing as the steampunk look is design-wise I always felt it was kind of bizarre they decided to take that kind of concept and apply it to model railroading. This is mainly coming from somebody who doesn't avidly collect ho or oo or any of the fancy train related stuff outside of maybe destinations, do to me the designs look like they would have probably fit somewhere within the realm of Hot Wheels. I know that might sound like comparing apples to oranges but if you looked at some of the vehicles that they produced when they aren't trying to replicate real-life bases some of the designs can get pretty out there.
Good review. If anyone wants to listen to some nice thematic steampunk music while laughing at this section of the Hornby catalogue may i suggest Steam powered giraffe or the more punk "The men that will not be blamed for nothing". The latter releasing "Now thats what i call Steampunk! Vol 1" and the succinctly titled "This May Be The Reason Why The Men That Will Not Be Blamed For Nothing Cannot Be Killed By Conventional Weapons"
You pretty much nailed it. They need separate pipes, and more colors, esp brass. Heavily slash the price, add lots of custom bits, and pair them with some old style wooden carriages and they might amount to something. And for Gods sake, put some rivets on the things?
These are components of layouts that could be the based on those created by Rowland Emett OBE, cartoonist and kinetic sculptures and W. Heath Robinson plus a bit of Michael Betine CBE battle scenes. A better solution then the production of the steampunk locos would have been a random kit of parts which could be added to any loco that with a self designed paint job could be 'Steampunk'.Items such as snow plows, animal 'cow' catchers, cylinders, pipework, lifting equipment. etc..
I reckon Hornby would have had better luck if it looked into O16.5 (1:24) gauge or Gn15 (1:24) as they are interesting scales to look into with little to no Ready to run pieces apart from Lionheart's O16.5 L&B Manning wardles coming up - even bringing back Hornby live steam would be something of interest for many as some of those locos are going for over £1000 on Ebay atm.
So true! I've been playing around with O-16.5 but OO9 seems so much easier to find. I already have a lot of HO track and spare parts, and OO9 is just too small for me to paint. I've been looking at scaling up OO9 designs or scaling down SM32 designs (though there's little enough of that as well).
@@tobythehairlessdog8876 Yes, 1:43 would be correct for O-16.5, or 1:48 for american On30. I've seen some fascinating Gn15 projects but it seems a bit more niche. G is a bit subjective and can be anywhere from 1:19 to 1:32 depending on who you ask.
I cant help but feel the diesel is being presented backwards. the jets on top look like they only have massive exhausts, and maybe I'm stretching, but I think the brass/gold hoops are meant to be part of the head lights or something.... nifty little idea, but clearly half-assed.
This may not surprise you - this is actually the first steampunk material I have seen in over two years. There is one shop, about twenty miles away, that still sells Hornby and he certainly hadn't got any when I looked in recently. All I can say, due to my very limited knowledge of this particular sci-fi group (wholly gained from youtube) is that I wouldn't readily associate its adherents with railway models. What kind of marketing research went into it?
As a goth with many steamgoth, steampunk and neo-Victorian friends, and as a museum curator who, a few years ago, curated a major steampunk exhibition, I have to say that I find this stuff to be horrific and embarrassing. Literally any ordinary Hornby steam engine is more steampunk than this rubbish. Steampunks love steam engines and well-engineered machinery, especially with a Victorian aesthetic. Steampunk design is precise and beautiful, the exact opposite of badly "painted" blobs of resin!
Hornby really missed a trick here though, because the first steampunks of all were the real-life pioneers of steam locomotion, men like Trevithick, Hedley, Blenkinsop, Stephenson and Brunel. Hornby should have developed more early Era 1 "travelling engines" for their main range and gone from there. If there are any steampunk model railway enthusiasts out there, I think they may well just use "Rocket" or "Lion" or any 19th century model as the basis for their creations. Anything but this!
I always felt that Rocket and the really early locomotives were a bit primitive. But they do have the PERFRCT locomotive and coach set in their range with little to no modification required, the GWR single 'Lord of the Isles' being later Victorian. Give that and the Clerestories a fancy intricate livery in something other than the usual GWR and it would have been job done! I oft envisaged a beam engine to drive a cantilevered platform which would extend out to meet the train. Hornby made a mistake in using Laurie Calverts creations as inspiration, as fun as his creations are. I would never describe them as Steampunk...they're far too dystopian and lean too far into sci-fi.
@@Simon-Davis It's a broad church, steampunk, covering anything from Victorian style laptops to complete alternative sci-fi universes with steam-powered airships, etc, so, yeah, almost anything is possible. As you say, the most beautiful Victorian trains are a good starting point, although those early "Puffing Billy" style efforts with all their cogs and levers on display just scream "steampunk" to me. It's a broad church, from which I still think these Hornby efforts should be excommunicated!
@@shona1578 To this day I still think the best Steampunk vision was that initially set out by Hayao Miyazaki in 'Laputa, Castle in the Sky', a cartoon originally created for the long haul Asian flights in the mid 1980s. Everything from a grand representation of a Welsh style mining town, with a really simple tram engine running on a huge elevated wooden trestle to a huge almost German wartime armoured train. And those flying machines and airships he created! The world he expanded on in subsequent feature length animations is nothing short of effortlessly sublime. Hornby should have taken note, Steampunk can be done very well very easily...just don't overcomplicate things and make them look believable. Sticking pointless gears and widgets on slapdash just doesn't cut the clotted cream.
I'm so glad you mention early steam locos as great foundations for steampunk, anything beyond 1890 kinda looks too modern and therefore more teslapunk (atleast personally).
@@uniquely.mediocre1865 Yes. The British railway system was literally built by steampunks, men in top hats who ignored convention and threw high pressure steam at everything. The Era 1 period started with loads of whacky experiments, and people like Francis Trevithick and Brunel were still pushing the boundaries into the '50s. Brunel is HUGE in the steampunk movement.
I was once told that the point of Steampunk were if modern technology were to suddenly vanish, it would be replaced with steam based technology instead and steampunk is an exploration of how that would change technology and is often expressed through fashion.
Thus, a steampunk train would be... a train
Yes, steam locos are “steampunk ready”, just need the driver and fireman wearing goggles…
I was thinking about the turbine steam engines, but those are probably beyond steampunk.
Love it. Comment of the decade!
@Thclachlans steam locomotive drives and firemen have always done so, especially on the mainline
@@CassandraPantaristiturbomotive time!
I don't think the basic concept of steampunk model railways is bad, but I think Hornby went in the wrong direction. It seems like they tried to create their own ill-defined fictional universe for it, which honestly felt like a mess. There's dinosaurs and there's some sort of war and a hatter or something? If it were up to me, I'd have done the range thus.
1. The basic setting is Victorian. Hornby has lots of pre-Grouping tooling that really isn't detailed enough for modern standards - the Dean Single, CR No. 123, the GNR J52, the GWR 2721 pannier, the NBR J83. Coaching stock is 4-wheelers and/or Triang clerestories. For wagons, anything small and old-fashioned. Then go to town on the liveries. Bam, a whole range of "steampunk" trains with zero tooling investment.
2. Instead of sticking gears on buildings, the resin scenery should be inspired by existing 19th century fiction. A Martian cylinder, a waterline model of the Nautilus, Frankenstein's lab, 221B Baker Street. This could appeal to steampunk modellers, but also war gamers and even ordinary modellers who just want something fun on their layout.
Hornby seem to be digging their own grave incredibly successfully. Where I live the constant from the resellers is this.They cant get the stock!. So if Hornby are unable to ship stock from China to Australia to sell how can you make money. Hornby have only just raised all their prices so that gets translated into a higher price to the customer. TT120 is a classic example, incredibly difficult to buy and as for any track packs or scenery forget it. Whats sort of weird about TT120 is sure it's a smaller scale but the bang for buck is not there vs Hornby's 00 range. And did anyone ever ask for a smaller scale range from Hornby? This Hornby Steam Punk stuff looks bone ugly and lazy. You just wonder if the twit behind the idea still has a job at Hornby. Anyway Hornby share price is going for $0. 'The Big Hornby Short' TM is well and truly on.
I think the major problem with these was just the blatant case of "not giving a toss" .
It literally just looks like they went to the local scrap merchant, bought a box of junk from them and just dumped a load of glue and the junk on regular 0-4-0s and called it a day. Now, if these were done properly, inspired by Jules Verne, victorian visions of the future with lots of ruby red, scheele's green, shiny brass and more outlandish and out there designs i think the story would have been quite a different one.
But alas, that would need time and effort something that they weren't going for. I'm just disappointed more than anything
The "Just put some gears on it and call it steampunk" song continues to be relevant to this day.
They would probably look quite good repainted in the colours you suggest!
Yeah absolutely - as many have pointed out, this stuff is not steam punk... it's just regular items with gears and other gubbins stuck all over it. That's obvious to anyone who's actually seen Steampunk done properly.
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
It's more apocalyptic than steam punk I believe
I'm not sure more individual "better" designs would have faired much better, even if well-done. As sam pointed out actual individuality is a key point in a steampunk.
And the resin - poorly moulded from indifferent masters and then dry brushed in silver over black primer, before being fitted to the single cheapest and smallest chassis available - smacks of a product produced in a hurry by people who simply didn't care. I'm left wondering if they'd promised some potential investor that they had a new exciting range just launching and this was an attempt to make good on that.
Honestly, I think the range was a great move from Hornby, but I think the problem really lies in the fact that modellers usually model realistic railways, and not so many model the steampunk world, like you said. Great video as always sam!
Yeah you could be right - maybe the idea of combining the two hobbies/worlds was a stretch too far??
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains @jackstrains4468 its the same story like Märklin's Alpha Trains from the late 80ties/early90ties. They were "beautiful" stes ( I have one) - but "out of an other world" not fitting on a normal model railway setup.
Then you’re mad as a hatter. It’s about as useful as TT120.
Pity the poor Hornby shareholders. Hopefully some fresh thinking, some respect shown to OO Modellers ( who are king in this game) and admission of defeat with Rails of Sheffield, should restore some respect to this tarnished name
.
Coca-Cola my arse!
I think the real problem was that it wasn't a range that really should've been called "steampunk." If you look online at steampunk railway concepts it's nothing like the terrible things Hornby released. They took the most basic models and just chucked random pipes and cogs on them and gave them an awful silver-ish paint job. A company could produce a great steampunk range if they actually look at actual steampunk community artworks and world concepts.
Hi Sam, personally I’m not a Steampunk fan but I do ‘get’ Laurie’s initial concept of Kato Pass and all that it entailed - hand made body shells with some thought processes behind it. The whole point about them was their individuality, nothing else existed like them and seeing them working on his exhibition layout was ‘Interesting’. But for me that’s all it was - interesting. Laurie was - or so I believe - the designer of this rubbish from Bassett Lowke which was where it all went wrong in my opinion, a better idea would have been to produce packets of cogs, springs or whatever other rubbish could be placed on a bare shell so that folk could customise them themselves and spray them to their individual choice. I think that would have given each one it’s individuality which as far as I can make out is the essence of Steampunk plus given the person creating them a few hours of enjoyment creating them. These items are so poor in quality and appearance that it doesn’t do any justice for Steampunk in general. ………Graham
The saddest thing is that they sell them under the Bassett Lowke name. A company with rich prewar history torn to bits… They could have made O gauge stuff or even live steam powered locomotives like mamod (what Bassett Lowke is mostly known about). They sadly chose the 3rd option “parts bin”
that was my first thought. How cynical can a company be. Good riddance Simon Kohler., you won't be missed.
@@cyborgbadger1015 hopefully they get their stuff together. But it’s a lot they’ve got to fix that’s for sure (ahem ahem euro brands ahem ahem)
And there's option 4: The recycling bin.
@@brianartillery *class 66 has entered the chat* XD
The thing for me is that steampunk is an aesthetic, more than a culture or a genre or anything else, it’s a vibe and a design style - and it’s one that can vary from very grounded (basically take existing Victorian technology and extrapolate) up to very outlandish with lots of gears and wacky proportions. So Hornby were never going to please everyone with this range - I’m actually big into steampunk but more on the former side - so if I want the aesthetic I’ll just buy an Era 1 locomotive or something! XD
Steampunk isn't exactly my favorite aesthetic, but I do respect it and the community. I don't like that Hornby actually tried to release these as serious models for the serious modeler instead as something marketed towards kids like Lionel's Polar Express line. As has been stated, if I wanted to do a steampunk train, I'd either make it myself or I'd just buy stuff from either Athearn or BLI, or just scour the used market for cheap used Tycos and fix those up (since they're pretty much of little value otherwise).
haha exactly - I think they could have created better Steampunk locos by just taking some of their existing Victorian models and just giving them interesting liveries - would love to see how that would look!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
couldn’t have said it better. the gnr stirling single (my favorite locomotive) is more steampunk than these and it’s not even trying lol
@@SamsTrains and potentially sticking a few more pipes onto it. from all the images I've seen of actual steampunk trains, they still have more pipework than usual.
(not defending Hornby at all, these models still absolutely suck)
Hornby never fail to impress with their lack of business sense - this was a hilarious video!!
How's this then. I pointed out to Montana that their 37s, 57s and some 66s had already been produced number wise by Bachmann. I said that this makes no sense because there were others to choose from and collectors like me are looking for the un produced running numbers. Her reply was unbelievable. "we are making these for new modellers as well who might not have the Bachmann ones". I couldn't believe that reply. Make one number different and the new and old collectors will buy it!.
Now that shows a complete lack of not only business sense but also common sense.
I have cancelled over £4000 of orders with Hornby over the last few years due to their decisions and price hikes.
@@maringarvanovic8011 Wow! That's shocking!
@@maringarvanovic8011There was a documentary recently that was supposed to mark their comeback, but to me it really made them look bad. It's a long story but the point that stuck out to me was their laser focus on trying to undercut a competitor and beat them to market with the same models, rather than making something new and original that people actually want to buy. I had been rooting for them to stay in business but that really left a bad taste in my mouth.
I agree. The move to china 🇨🇳 was a mistake, at least I think that is where they moved their manufacturing to. Should have been to an adjacent county who has a better reputation for quality products.
But, I like the Steam Punk themes and ideas, but as I see it, they look like half melted plastic. Plus, the paint job just exacerbates the bad look.
@@paulw9516 Yeah, the paint job looks like something from the dollar store. I've seen what Hornby paint can be when they're trying and this just isn't it.
Yeah, I agree. When this first came out I didn't think it had legs, and not seeing anyone else championing it online is a shame when new ranges should be an exciting time in our hobby. I think this would have gone better had Hornby done "steampunk builder sets" - put all the parts and various other bits and pieces in a box and let the modeller stylise their loco and stock how they want to make them more unique
Now that..... is a bloody clever idea.
Yes, I agree. Actually, it's a clever idea
I think the biggest issue is the whole thing was really half-arsed from Hornby. Lauries original works and layouts are spectacular, and always a favourite when he takes them to model shows, but when Hornby bought his idea, they pit nowhere near as much effort into making them as he did. As per usual, they just did it as cheaply as possible with as many existing toolings and models as possible and slapped an existing name (Bassett-Lowke) onto it to entice people in.
I bet if a more thoughtful and passionate company made these, they would be a hit.
You're right - Laurie's layout is indeed spectacular, but mainly because of how unique it was! I think it's too much to try and mass produce stuff like this, it was always going to look low-effort
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hornby will never learn from their mistakes. They are just going to continue making mistakes until they will go bankrupt which can happen at anytime Sam.
Steampunk is a very niche market. And like Sam said it's a creative community who like to create, not buy off the shelf. I sometimes think if the big model companies just sat down and talked to one another they could makes some real progress. Instead of chasing each other to release the same products, they could expand and focus on the myriad of other locomotives and rolling stock out there to make. For Example, Hornby makes a A1x Terrier and someone else makes a variety of LBSCR wagons or coaches to go behind. It would be huge!
Yeah that's right - I wonder how many steampunk enthusiasts want railways but don't want to create the stuff themselves... not many I'd guess!
I think even if they could collaborate, the manufacturers wouldn't because the market is quite cut-throat... it's shrinking because of their high prices and low quality, and the manufacturers really have to fight for our money!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I have no idea how I ended up on this channel since I'm not a model train person.
But I do like steampunk.
But at those prices/quality I will just 3D print something.
Assuming it was good. And came and kit form so it could be modified to taste easily. I would be willing to pay money.
Now I want a steampunk train in 32mm minis scale, with "CHOO CHOO MOTHER 🦆ERS!" written on the front/battering ram.
Then I can roll it around the table to each player on their turn.
What they need is a Steampunk Lowmac with a giant pop bottle on it in TT:120 scale.
😂😂😂 20 quid says hornby actually do that
Be careful what you wish for! (he-he). The victorian freight wagons could be in the consist as well!
The Steampunk range was first made 3 years ago? Time sure flies
I will never understand why Hornby don't approach people like you Sam to get a true perspective of what the general model enthusiast wants from the hobby.
haha I guess if I suggested that I'd be big headed!! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
approach with anyone with common sense really. Steam punk is a very niche group anyway and then your wanting another niche group ie modellers, within that group. Makes no sense at all. The market was always going to be so small it was not worth it, and it does not appeal to the larger group of modellers either so where was this going to sell? Who thought this was a good oppurtunity?
They may do or send out questionnaires and they may have got feedback to suggest there was a community for it
I think we all know what id ask for
@@retrorambles517 really lol? so they sent this to the few people that do the steam punk thing and found modellers in amongst them lol? I dont think so.
Hi Sam,
I did enjoy the range i couldnt beleive they actually did it you know, but the lack of veriety was a major issue.
all the loco's were painted the same colour and same goes for the rolling stock and buildings for the most part, I think a tender loco like the dean single or their old 440s would have made it better and they could of just recycled those old loco's like they did the 040s.
I saw straight away that it would affend the steampunk comminuty as they just stuck gears to everything which is the big number 1 rule that you dont do, I'm not super knowledgable on steampunk but I do know that.
I would have liked this range to stick around a bit longer as I'm not very good at creating models myself but i think its dead at this point.
I do plan to use it on my main layout as a theme park sort of thing when I get my own house so i'll have space for it.
Thanks for the video Sam 🙂
hi sam. it really seems like hornbys pricing and cheaply made products are taking their toll on the companies financial state of affairs. at this rate expect hornby to increasing their already bloated prices. the only cure for them now is to reduce prices and improve the materials used on their models and not promote gimmicks.
And make locos that run and will pull a train for more than 10 minutes.
That diesel looks like someone glue binoculars on a bagnal shunter
I agree with you that it's a major misreading of the market by Hornby. These would be attractive to, specifically, steampunk enthusiasts who want to get into model railroading. An interesting idea, but how many of those can there be? Precious few, I fear.
A hell of a lot more than would stoop to buying this cr@p.
No steampunk fan would buy these hideous blobs.
Look at the loco in 'Wild Wild West' for comparism.
A note on the coach, that 'pipe' looks suspiciously like a runner/sprue from the waste pile in their injection moulding process, that they've crudely cut down with some blunt pliers
oh my god it does NO WAY
I came here to say exactly the same thing.
That and the engine painting looks like they sprayed it black and poorly dry brushed it.
I have absolutely zero doubt that that's exactly how the master was made.
Yup. Kit parts runner, hacked off to fit.
As someone with the gift of sight, I don't like them. The 3 locos look like someone glued random items to an existing loco, with includes a barrel of a Games Workshop Necron Destroyer gun barrel on the front and drinking straws. Oh, and then finished in a nasty drybrush? They just don't scream 'buy me', so why would I?
I personally think that the Hornby steampunk range was a good fun range shame it didn't take off. My wife has some of it and it runs really well.
I kind of like the locos that you've presented now. The streamlined one looks like a shrunken down Mallard , and the one with massive fans on the hood looks like a turbo-jet train. 😅
I don't like it, but it reminds me distinctly of the 'streamlined' body put on a Darjeeling B class 0-4-0ST in 1940 or thereabouts.
If, and I don’t know if they do, but, IF, they still have access to the old Triang Davy Crockett toolings (incl clerestory coaches), surely they missed the opportunity to go full on Doc Brown, Back to the Future III style with a suitably steam punk themed set. Some appropriate, and, not blobby modifications, and hey presto. Surely would have been better than what looks like Smokey Joe having a run-in with the Scrap Man and being defecated out the other end.
6:32 Wow. Somebody senior at Hornby actually signed off on that. Incredible.
If I wanted a cheapo Hornby 0-4-0 with random junk glued to it which was painted black with silver dry brushing, I could go to any model shop in the country and buy the loco, junk, glue, paint and a brush for half the price.
In fact, I might have to try that.
To be honest, I like the range. Mostly the funny looking wagons. The locomotives I don't like too much, except the diesel. If it appeared in a local shop, I would buy one for 22£. However, I think it's interesting that Hornby experiments with different ways to try and get youngsters ( who I think this range is aimed at ), into the hobby. But in the end, it's a fun side thing and as long as it doesn't occupy too much time and manpower, I'm more than happy with the range, but if they did something completely unique and not recycle a basic chassis I think there would be a fair chance it would at least be a small success. I remember your original video, but didn't expect you to buy another one.
I wouldn't even take them for free. Horrible idea.
hahahaha I think I'd take the locos for free for the chassis... but the rolling stock/buildings I wouldn't want for any amount of money xD
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Back in 1957 Lionel produced their infamous "girls train": standard 027 equipment painted in marvellous pastel hues of pinks, blues, and yellows.
These sold for just a couple of years, the second year just being unsold inventory from the unpopular range.
Turned out that when a girl wanted a train, she, like most, wanted it to actually look like a train (unbelievably Lionel did a couple of preproduction sets for a "boys train" in blues and blacks before someone actually figured out that boys are already happy with the look of their existing trains).
Fast forward to triang and the "battlespace" range. Slow selling, again unsold stock lingering on for years.
Curiously enough, train buyers seem to be quite keen on models that resemble the real things.
They have done since the first mass toy trains appeared 180 years ago, although only available as 2d lead flats, they still looked and were painted like the real things.
Excellent video Sam, nice to see something a bit more immersive :)
By the way, poor old Wenman J B-L would be turning in his grave since the turn of the twentieth century endeavouring to produce accurate, scale models, museum train pieces, and with Mr Greenley really starting the whole scale modelling that we know so well today. It was him whom first did 4mm to the foot, and basically started the whole affordable modelling saga with the seminal Bing table railway.
And here his hallowed name is plastered on something that I'm sure my daughter made at kindy...
As usual right on the money Sam! That being said, you forgot to test if there are sprung buffers on them... ;-) 😀
I like the line, because it’s something different. I have collected most of the pieces, which hasn’t been easy in the USA and I’ve only found out about these around a year ago. I do think the locomotives should have had a better paint job. When I think Steampunk, brass, copper, gears and leather comes to mind. All 3 locos having the same brushed metal paint scheme made them look too similar. It would have been nice if the wagons where different colors instead of all of them being red. Hornby could have at least painted all the piping on the locos and wagons a brass color.
I plan on making a small, multi tier Steampunk layout. I will incorporate Hornby’s back stories on the various items with ideas I have. It will be fun, because I don’t have to worry about what’s prototypical.
They may turn up at reasonable prices at Trainworld of Brooklyn. This has happened before when Hornby had an over supply of locomotives in the early eighties with the rush to video games and other factors.
By the early nineties Trainworld were advertising close out pricing of $60 on Stephenson Rocket sets in Model Railroader.
Myself and a work colleague sent off from Australia and order for five if these sets that were usually $300 in Australia .
On receiving these Trainworld included further close out pricing of numerous other Hornby locomotives at $15 to $30. From E2 and M7 tanks to A4s at the top price. Not sure if Trainworld got burnt at the closeout prices or just passing on Hornby getting rid of stock and not upsetting UK retailers who would not know about it.
All pre internet so harder for a clearance price not to cause grief to retailers who paid more for their stock sitting in shelves than retail closeout price.
An own goal by Hornby. I always thought launching this range was a weird move. Reminds me of the dying days of Dinky Toys in the late 1970s when they were churning out hamfistedly customised versions of tired old castings in the hope that they would appeal to kids. They didn't and it was a case of when rather than if parent company Airfix would pull the plug and axe the ailing brand along with the famous Binns Road factory.
I agree with ModelMinutes. I think Hornby should instead have tried selling unpainted versions of their models, supplied with various parts and a leaflet of ideas.
From The Great Model Railway Challenge I can see that Hornby thought it was worth exploring and, using their tried and tested basic stock, meant there was little risk to them in terms of much investment. Hence, their loss has been more one of cashflow with money tied up in this until they can sell it such that they can at least cover its cost.
I recall my nephew commenting that Hornby were trying to sell it cheaply at, I think, last year's Dorset Steam Fayre.
Overall, I am afraid that I always thought that it was rather too niche and specialised but with me also wondering if I was being too conservative.
I just hope Hornby can recover and for attempts like this not to make them too unadventurous in the future.
The worst thing about this range is that it has tarnished the Basset Lowke name that was once known for a decent O gauge range.
It looked like someone emptied their recycling bin and glued it onto railroad range items.
Yet again a massive failure down to Simon Kohler. As usual you are spot on. Steam Punk fans want to create their own designs so Hornby really did have no idea what they were doing.
You mentioned potential for spares, but how does it compare to buy them just for the chassis and motors to chuck 3D printed uppers on?
Good little video Sam. As you alluded to if Hornby actually researched what is going on in the big bad world of ours they'd stop wasting time, money, resources and concentrate on their core business, "OO"! Imo as a consequence they're in financial difficulties and (perhaps) out of desperation resorting to uncompetitive price increases to make ends meet! My belief is that the TT range will also fail to catch on as i think they're trying to fill a niche market. I stand to be corrected but to my knowledge Acurascale et al are not dabbling in such markets and instead focusing on their strenghts producing quality models at mostly affordable prices. Keep up the excellent work you do!
The somehow remind me of the science-fiction line from Märklin, called Märklin Alpha. The locomotive was also based on a standard entry-level steam locomotive. The difference, IMHO, is that Märklin Alpha rolling stock was cool, probably over designed, but cool.
Yeah Sam that's a great idea, Buy them for the use of spare parts for the Drive systems to fix other 2 Axle Locos from Hornby.
Ok, from a technical point of view, one issue I see is that these are 0-4-0s being sold to a subset of the model railroading market that seems to not know that turnouts with powered frogs exist. Every time I've seen someone in the UK complain about a short-wheelbased locomotive losing power on turnouts, I mention that they should try powered frogs and the responses generally boil down to "I should have thought of that".
I can't believe Hornby missed an obvious huge seller, TT gauge steampunk models! 😆
you beat me "to that though the figures that they produced for that range would have to be to 5mm/ft scale (with a few larger at 8.5mm/ft), furthermore they would only be orderable from a website on alternate tuesdays between 04:25 and 04:39 gmt.
The Hornby 0-4-0 chassis is popular for GN15 and 016.5 models so if they end up cheaper I can see a lot being bought just for their chassis.
When I think of steampunk, I don’t think of a steam powered, silver scrap pile. I picture an industrial, Victorian city and flying machines with brown, gold, brass and off-white colour schemes. The wagons look perfect, if we’re taking my stereotypical approach, that is
So bad an idea that I think even the ideas of Baldrick from Blackadder look positively genius
Clearly this is a case of someone saying "I have a great idea" and in typical British fashion no one says let's actually do some research and find out its a crazy idea.
Those wagons look better than the locomotives. 😅
Heh, my favourite Steampunk loco is the can-fronted one
@@thepolishgenerator5915 Your choice mate, as for me: not a fan.
Sam, your review is spot on. You have said it all. As we all know Hornby's fortunes have taken a tumble recently and maybe Steampunk was the beginning of their troubles. I don't know how they could make such a poor business decision. At best it's obvious to most that it would only be a short lived fad. I can't see Simon Kohler going for this with much enthusiasm. But someone on high made the final decision.
Is this the same company that brought us the fantastic Q6 and J50 (and others) at great prices?
When Simon left the first time I believe it was because he didn't like the direction Hornby was going in. Is this the real reason he "retired"?
David Parkin
Love your sense of humour, great video. I did think you were generous with your score though. Your comments about this and the TT range made me think, have these been seen as a failure and promoted the removal of Mr Kohler?
it was this style of locos and rolling stock that got me back into the hobby, i brought them cheaply off Amazon and I completely agree it’s all nonsense and isn’t very traditional by railway standards but it’s unique and unusual that’s why I do actually really enjoy this range
I think that the blocky 'Dieselpunk' (yes, really) engine is meant to run cab first - those jet engines are backwards if not - the ends with the fans are the intakes, making the jets go to the rear. It's really not good.
Sometimes Sam I really wonder what Hornby thinking with this range.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
hahaha me too!!
Beyond my understanding, as I have previously said. Can sort of imagine one of these going through the Pine Barrens with the Jersey Devil on the footplate.
Sam you should make a series which you buy hornby railroad engines and ad brass name plates and more lining and new logos
As a model painter, this is toddler standard painting.
Its a basic starter 0-4-0 with an uglier body shell with the absolute WORST drybrushing in silver 🤮
These "steampunk" models (the locos and rolling stock) look more "post-apocalyptic" to me.
A post-apocalyptic layout would look amazing and i actually might try making that.
I agree. More Mad Max than steam punk.
It's the usual problem with corporations. They took too long to respond to the market. If Hornby had launched this series three or four years earlier, I think they'd have seen a lot more sales. Somebody at Hornby was probably saying at that time "steampunk's just a fad, let's see if it lasts before we do anything" they waited till the steampunk scene peaked, developed their products, then released them just in time for the scene to fade. I don't think this lineup was ever meant to seriously appeal to adults, these are for kids, and with that market in mind, their timing was way off. Kids rarely stick around after the hype dies off, they move on to something else.
I bought some this out of curiosity. Thought it was ok and a bit different. What I couldn't understand was badging it as Basset Lowke?
Those jet engines on the diesel are facing backwards. It looks like the nozzle of the engine is at the front of the loco and the compressor section is at the back nearer the cab!
Personally, I feel they should have tested the waters with rolling stock. If they advertised a bogie coach with a steampunk theme, like a 'Frankenstein's Observation Coach' with lights and a mad scientist motif, or 'Dracula's Dining Coach' with red tinted windows and black livery with red stripes, then its fun enough to buy one of for say Halloween, or as a little gimmick. Its horror themed, its Victorian era themed, its testing the waters for steampunk, but staying in the right era and theme to do so. There doesnt need to be a locomotive immediately at the start. Heck, a rake of all black coaches with red tinted windows, maybe some lights? That'd look grand behind an express locomotive on a layout. Put effort into these things, and approach it from two angles, not just 'put gears on it'.
That Steam Punk range reminds me of that video you did about a train running underwater. These Steam Punk locos would make ideal aquarium ornaments! Hey, that's your next video - an Aquarium Layout!
I honestly thought these were mold fails that hornby recycled into a steampunk line. I had no idea that these were designed on purpose.
It would be interesting to see if you could design and 3D print one of your own and see if you can address all the issues you had with these. A bit like the era 1 wagons.
In all fairness, Hornby, Bachman and many others, spent alot of time and effort to develop the models( creditworthy?) So is many other developers of models of steam models, diesel and electric prototypes from the 1st drawings photos and all tools to the making of the mould range to make the models a reality. Some models(beginner level)may not be as finely detail as a model for the master modeller its all the same idea to make money. However the age of 3d printing is allowing most people to produce models of prototypes. These do not always look the part at best or at worse, dont even represent it due to any given factor in the development stage and individuals will extort(especially in SA)with poor quality models churned out on 3d printers, and other methods with resin moulding. Though the idea seems noble, the aftermath can be brutal. No more quality models at afforddable prices essentially killing the hobby itself
Sam, perhaps you could make your own steampunk train, either 3D print or modify a railroad Fowler 2P?
I Love 'em. MY Steam Punk layout is AMAZING ! Hand made Trees are really PUNKY !
I’ve purchased all the Steampunk range a built a end to end layout to run them on
Hornby's thinking even extended to 2012 Olympic ideas, including a powered velodrome. . . . compared to that wisdom, the steampunk idea wasn't all bad. It's just a shame that they waste so much time and effort on such useless, unwanted, limited shelf life things., but, they are Hornby, and that's, sadly, what many of us have come to expect. I sadly predict the rapid downfall of TT120, more so now with no S.K. and Montana, and also a potential failure with HM7000, Hornby can't do electronics. . . . even the bloody chips don't fit in most locomotives....
1:56 Well.....that explains why all of hornby's prices have gone up Sam.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
haha very much so!! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
My biggest problem with the range is the lack of modern loco's in steampunk style.
Something like a shinkansen or TGV but steam powered. Stuff like that.
Hornby keep trying to reinvent the wheel they should stick to making great trains that no one else is doing yet in great detail, theres loads.
Reminds me of the 2008 film "Mutant Chronicles". Could make for a fantastic retro futuristic layout with time and a keen artistic mindset. The problem stopping me from getting back into the hobby regardless of the era of trains and sets is the damn price. I don't have a chance.
They're like a cross between Mad Max, smashing through barriers, and the House Robots from Robot Wars, particularly Shunt. They are freaky and grotesque indeed, but definitely a unique and interesting addition to Sam's collection of locos. Sam loves trains so much that he could be the proverbial mother who would love these punkish misfits that only a mother could love.
If they made the railroad class 40 or class 37 steam punk I would definitely try it out. Instead they made the basic starter set locos. No dcc ready just dc.😢
If I’m honest, Hornby would have much better luck in their fortunes trying to bring back their Thomas range than making products like this. A steampunk model railway range sounds interesting on paper, but it frankly appeals to an incredibly niche audience - niche even by rail or model rail enthusiast standards!
Thanks for the review, informative as always. I’ve actually pondered this question myself. I applaud Hornby for what they were trying to do here, I believe the hobby needs more fantasy products as it so often gets stuck in a rabbit hole of realism and authenticity at the expense of joy. HOWEVER, their execution and cynical approach you described missed the mark dramatically! The locos also lack the Victoriana on steroids aesthetic I associate with steam punk anyway!
I actually have the “big diesel one” that I plan to repaint into a sci-fi military livery as I quite like the absurd jet engines plonked on the nose. I got it for £20 on Amazon only I had a £15 voucher at the time so it only cost me a fiver!
All the best!
I feel that part of the issue of this was that, really not an awful lot of thought seams to have been put in to the models themselves. Like the carriages and wagons were just standard stuff with some cogs glued on to them. The locos had a little more work done but yeah... Sort of like instead of getting people who are actually in to steam punk to design things they got people to printrest steam punk and glue bits on to already existing things. Maybe a way they could have done it would have been as model kits? Mix Airfix and trains together. Get a model kit to make a tank engine with all sorts of random cogs and pipes along with a basic boiler, maybe already mounted to a chassis to make attaching the additional parts easier for people with not a lot of experience modelling? Include a few cab designs, tank and bunker options and yeah let the buyer have at it
You are right, if you wanted to market these to steam punk enthusiasts you should really provide undecorated bodies of railroad locos and a kit of steam punk parts to add as you choose. That way you at least hit two markets, as regular modellers would also go for them as a cheap customisation starter. Sadly this has damaged the Basset Loke name, which could have been used for high end, non Dublo models.
whhen u reviewed the diesel you did it back to front. The jet engines are facing the other way, they dont blow exhaust towards the cab.
What IS funny is that halfway through this video, an advert for Hornby comes on 🤣🤣🤣
'Steampunk' would be having a layout with steam engines of the Victorian era!
Hi Sam, funny review, I purchased the “Diesel” loco and 2 coaches I payed no where near the RRP!!! I run them on my layout from time to time for a laugh, weird idea, Hornby were clueless in my opinion with this concept. Cool and interesting though.
I just realised what the diesels description was talking about its war of the worlds! From my guess’s they wanted to make some sorta armoured train for war of the worlds (and failed)
i think the most ironic part is these are more dieselpunk than steampunk (steampunk has alot of copperwork and exposed machinery, gauges and valves where dieselpunk is iron, exhaust pipes everywhere, and overall just more industrial looking)
I noticed that the blurb for that diesel engine contains the phrase: 'Designed by committee'. That sums up this entire sad range.
Someone, possibly Winston Churchill, said: "The camel is a horse designed by a committee."
I rest my case, M'Lud.
I think people would prefer to build their own, not buy mass produced. This does show Hornby's attitude to customers. They do not care. No customer service at all. After watching one of your reviews on the Centenary Peckett's, I ordered two of them and some coaches and parts off their website. Six weeks later, they still had not sent my order. Their website still said they were all still in stock. So, I emailed, and the response was, "We will get to it" So I rang (from Australia), and again the so-called customer service did not care at all. Around the same time, a little bit before, I had a similar problem trying to get the Centenary Stephens rocket set. My order was cancelled by Hornby and so I did not get one until I found one in Australia. Someone was selling it because the tender wiring was broken out of the box. So now I will not buy any Hornby models. Too expensive compared to other manufacturers, and the quality is very poor. Total lack of customer service. I was a member for a few years, but now I no longer pay to be treated like dirt and insulted and ripped off. Goodbye, Hornby.
The Turbine-Diesel would look interesting if you put some color for modifieng it, as a "fun" lokomotive...
Hey Sam, love the videos! Been watching for a few years now. However, I have a question, what do the markings on the coaches on the intro say?
Yes Hornby are struggling...and have gone bust many times before. However....so have EVERY other manufacturer. Its not hornby...its the industry I'm afraid.
What i find weird is the fact a regular steam loco is pretty much steampunk to begin with...
0:58 a figure that's 10 cm tall?! That's the same size as those Bachmann Thomas figures, which were originally marketed as HO scale but have since been sold as G scale ones.
I wonder how big the steampunk diesel is compared to O scale? I had an HO scale diesel switcher that was bigger than the rest of the trains I owned, and was convinced it could be On30.
I do agree that these locomotives would become a great way to get chassis cheaply and make your own bodies for them.
Rather than introduce a steam punk range or even invest in TT 120, in my opinion Hornby should introduce the fabulous range of British locos and rolling stock in HO gauge using either Rivarossi or Lima as a vehicle, or why not under the Hornby banner. I’m sure that they would enjoy much more success. Who wouldn’t want an A3 or an A4 on their layout with matching rolling stock in HO. The different liveries of the pre unification would certainly be a welcome addition to any HO enthusiast. Point in question. The Trix A3 Flying Scotsman is completely sold out, and theire isn’t even any suitable coaches to go along with it. I truly believe Hornby is missing out! Cheers
I don't think there's much of a market for HO products in Britain. For Hornby to make HO products, they'd basically need to sell exclusively in the USA, which probably won't lead to financial success.
@@MrJoeyWheeler HO is extremely popular in Europe too.
@@theelectricmonk3909 I confirm. As a continental modeller, I might certainly be interested by an UK models HO range. When I see the ongoing feud between OO, EM, and P4, I think UK HO would have an interesting market share, and a nice chance to start. Especially while backed up by continental, Uk, and even Down Under modellers, already on HO scale.
@@MrJoeyWheeler
Not necessarily. If you look at the Rivarossi brand, you will notice a wide variety of HO gauge models from different countries, including 4 Canadian Pacific box cars. In my opinion TT120 was specifically design to merge British prototypes with the European counterparts, enabling continental modellers the opportunity to run a diverse layout. I’m sure Arnold should have been the proper choice for TT 120, as they already manufacture it. There is a unique opportunity here for Hornby to establish British HO. Considering the lack lustre sales of TT120, I think that they should at least consider the move to HO.
Lima and Jouef/Playcraft both tried it and failed. Marklin has a HO Flying Scotsman but it is the thick end of £500....
I'm not sure if anyone's commented on this before, but as amazing as the steampunk look is design-wise I always felt it was kind of bizarre they decided to take that kind of concept and apply it to model railroading. This is mainly coming from somebody who doesn't avidly collect ho or oo or any of the fancy train related stuff outside of maybe destinations, do to me the designs look like they would have probably fit somewhere within the realm of Hot Wheels. I know that might sound like comparing apples to oranges but if you looked at some of the vehicles that they produced when they aren't trying to replicate real-life bases some of the designs can get pretty out there.
Good review. If anyone wants to listen to some nice thematic steampunk music while laughing at this section of the Hornby catalogue may i suggest Steam powered giraffe or the more punk "The men that will not be blamed for nothing". The latter releasing "Now thats what i call Steampunk! Vol 1" and the succinctly titled "This May Be The Reason Why The Men That Will Not Be Blamed For Nothing Cannot Be Killed By Conventional Weapons"
You pretty much nailed it. They need separate pipes, and more colors, esp brass. Heavily slash the price, add lots of custom bits, and pair them with some old style wooden carriages and they might amount to something. And for Gods sake, put some rivets on the things?
These are components of layouts that could be the based on those created by Rowland Emett OBE, cartoonist and kinetic sculptures and W. Heath Robinson plus a bit of Michael Betine CBE battle scenes. A better solution then the production of the steampunk locos would have been a random kit of parts which could be added to any loco that with a self designed paint job could be 'Steampunk'.Items such as snow plows, animal 'cow' catchers, cylinders, pipework, lifting equipment. etc..
WOW ! Watch the "Sour Side of Sam" ! This stuff got my juice's flowing ! Disappointed that I missed the 50% off opportunity,,,
I reckon Hornby would have had better luck if it looked into O16.5 (1:24) gauge or Gn15 (1:24) as they are interesting scales to look into with little to no Ready to run pieces apart from Lionheart's O16.5 L&B Manning wardles coming up - even bringing back Hornby live steam would be something of interest for many as some of those locos are going for over £1000 on Ebay atm.
So true! I've been playing around with O-16.5 but OO9 seems so much easier to find. I already have a lot of HO track and spare parts, and OO9 is just too small for me to paint. I've been looking at scaling up OO9 designs or scaling down SM32 designs (though there's little enough of that as well).
O16.5 is 1:43 - meaning it is O scale running on HO gauge track. 1:24 is G scale I think. Woof!
@@tobythehairlessdog8876 Yes, 1:43 would be correct for O-16.5, or 1:48 for american On30. I've seen some fascinating Gn15 projects but it seems a bit more niche. G is a bit subjective and can be anywhere from 1:19 to 1:32 depending on who you ask.
I cant help but feel the diesel is being presented backwards. the jets on top look like they only have massive exhausts, and maybe I'm stretching, but I think the brass/gold hoops are meant to be part of the head lights or something.... nifty little idea, but clearly half-assed.
This may not surprise you - this is actually the first steampunk material I have seen in over two years. There is one shop, about twenty miles away, that still sells Hornby and he certainly hadn't got any when I looked in recently. All I can say, due to my very limited knowledge of this particular sci-fi group (wholly gained from youtube) is that I wouldn't readily associate its adherents with railway models. What kind of marketing research went into it?