Judging by the looks of things, this looks like Bachmann's typical trick of sticking a new chassis under an outdated body. Same thing their V1/3 suffers from.
To be fair hornby do that too but at least they usually put them in railroad. Also most of these older models have split chassis so if they didn’t use a newer chassis then DCC fitting is very difficult.
@SamsTrains in regards to the B1 and V3 ,I prefer the older split chassis stuff just for the cheapness alone. They are easy to updetail and the big solid die cast chassis makes them reasonably weighty.
Disappointed with Bachmann's LNER V2 (latest version). A thin plastic running plate which bends at the touch of a finger. Out of the box, a very poor runner (couldn't crawl, jerky when slow) but might do better when run in. Poor value at RRP (220+ pounds), would be acceptable if100 cheaper.
Often what is done Sam, is that people buy the model on special, scrap the chassis, detail the Bachmann body, and put it on another set of frames (usually Comet Models) with an old Portescap drive, or a new High Level Kits one. Why do people bother with the Bachmann model at all, I have no clue, especially with those completely wrong boiler bands! Thanks as always Sam
I bought a second - hand body years ago. It was black. The body and tender were fine. I scratch built an EM underframe with a large can motor in tender and a drive shaft to three sets of worm and gears in the body and my own outside rods and gears. Numbered as the last B1 I ever travelled behind, finishing at Nottingham Victoria. (PS I just replaced a Portescap drive in my 1967 scratchbuilt C12 Atlantic. It was an end-of-run drive and always very noisy. Now, the High Level Road Runner is noiseless).
@@johnjephcote7636I I always liked hearing stories about people modelling locos on the ones they've ridden behind. Its always lovely to remember that almost every loco will be appreciated in some form long after their service years. Also, I'm hoping eventually when I have the equipment to make a better replacement for the Portescaps, as the only drive capable of being back-driven is the Slater's sg4, and I think I can get a better low end speed with an even better flywheel effect.
What’s wrong with the boiler bands? Asking out of curiosity, the smokebox door was always a bit of a problem for some locos (it’s for the less common type) and the chimney was always awful, but the boiler I thought was acceptable?
Yeah I think that's fine - as soon as they don't sell and get reduced it's fair game - I just feel bad for the people who pay top dollar thinking it's a decent model worthy of the price tag!
@@Britishrailwaystories Simon, my problem with the boiler bands is that the white edging takes up 2/3rds of the bands and the banding is a bit thick for me. To rectify this on a Hornby 4472, I put black paint paint on all of the boiler and used a sharp knife to scrap away the 0.1 mm of edging to look like proper LNER boiler banding. I may post something in RMWeb about this as the result is almost as good as a bow pen.
Fun historical fact: the B-1s were nicknamed Bongos because that was the name of the B-1 that was pulling a train with a railway director on it, who asked for a different locomotive as he didn’t want his train being pulled by a locomotive with “such a silly name.” Word of this got around quickly, and the railway workers started calling all B-1s ‘Bongos’ just to annoy this one railway director. I love the creative ways us working class folks come up with to stick it to the aristocrats.
This is not true. The first loco of the class was “Springbok” - more were subsequently named after deers - including one class member, named after a deer - “Bongo”. Since that loco’s release to traffic in the late 1940s, they’ve been known collectively as “Bongos”. Sorry - it’s a nice story you’ve told, but this is my specialist subject.
@@Britishrailwaystories He didn't say it was the first named one - just that the director was travelling behind it, but I'm sure you know everything. Woof!
@@tobythehairlessdog8876 I mean, I wrote the book on the Thompson quite literally. The “director asking for another locomotive” story has been debunked over and over by LNER historians, there’s absolutely no evidence for it. Railwaymen liked the name Bongo and it stuck, it’s as simple as that.
I have four of these, bought five years ago when they were much cheaper (£57, I have checked, from Hattons). They were excellent starting points for modelling. Each has been converted to represent a different member of the class. I love them for that. For the cost at the time, I got four for the cost of one and a half Hornby ones. The split chassis mechanism was of its time, and you can now get 3D printed plastic inserts to fix the older chassis. I honestly didn’t think they were bad quality for the time, today their RRP is too high, IMO, but as starting points for modelling they are pretty good.
Wow - for £57 they're the perfect budget offering - quite surprised they were so cheap as recently as that! Thanks a lot for sharing - sounds like a great little fleet! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I have checked my blog, and, insanely, it was actually NINE years ago. That’s mad how time has flown by! I used a combination of different tenders, brass chimneys and other parts to bring them up to scratch. The chassis itself I really like, it’s very straightforward. My intended layout does not have many areas where tender pickups will absolutely be needed, it’s basically a big oval with a fiddle yard.
About the drawbar connections (17:05): on this and similar connections on other locos, I will drill out the tender pin slightly, make the connection in the repair cradle, the screw in a small screw with a washer into the connecting stub, thereby retaining the drawbar. One doesn't want to go very much wider than the drawbar for fear of actually breaking off the existing stub. This has worked well for me on several locos, including other Hornby ones, too. All that being said, once again, a Sam's review has turned me away from making buying mistake, much like the FELL review did. "The solution is to not buy the locomotive." Well said.
Steam locomotives without a trailing wheel arrangement often had a very rough ride. In the US, the Pennsylvania Railroad's I1 class 2-10-0 were notorious for their extremely rough ride and were pretty much hated by all the crews who ran them. The PRR G5 class 4-6-0 was also notorious for rough riding and disliked by their crews
For me Sam I would have to go for the Hornby B1. Although if your like me and want wanted to take your model out to a show or another layout, then I would probably get one for my layout for good price. Cheers Jasper & Willow
It's a pity the model wasn't cheaper. Would have made a great budget alternative to Hornby's B1 if they'd made the price more reasonable and people didn't mind doing their own updates to enhance the loco. The price for the Bachmann B1 seems ridiculous when as you rightly say you could get a decent second hand Hornby B1 online somewhere. Though I admit it's a bit harder to compare the two (in terms of cost brand new) when Hornby doesn't have a B1 in their range at the moment. However I have noticed there will apparently be a B1 (mayflower) in Hornbys range that is available to preorder (£220) but that's not to say the price won't change when released. Still if it's a quality model and stays at £220 it won't hurt to spend the extra £40 over Bachmann's especially with 21 pin decoder capability etc
Hi again, Sam. An update on my previous comment. My ancient B1s are become almost unusable, so when TMC offered this model for £89 I bought one. I reckon that's an OK price for what it is.
I mean, its a beautiful looking loco - i would say the price is quire ridiculous for what you get - shame about the detail, however i do think the livery hides it a bit! Great video as always sam
Bachmann have a track record of doing this sort of thing - their Ivatt 2-6-2 tank was another case where a new mechanism was created to replace the split chassis design but the ancient body retained. As for lack of tender pick ups etc - it rather depends on what the project brief was. If the brief was literally a ‘do minimum’ / to get rid of the split chassis and make it DCC compatible then the tender would not have been part of the brief - hence it’s unchanged from the split chassis days - a fate that also befell the Collet Goods loco (though in that case getting rid of the split chassis and making it DCC compatible was done as two separate projects around 15 years apart).
Another fine review Sam. Well, in all fairness, if things come apart such as wheels in the tender, should we just not dismiss the loco as tosh? We would pronto. Next....
My UK layout has only radius 1 curves and a surface of 95x85 centimetres, so this beautiful steamer is not an option I am afraid 🥲 I have a Pecket, Terrier and Prairie, and an H0 Class 33. I am looking for a small diesel now, but I can't make up my mind on the new Ruston, but ut didn't really stand the test very well, did it? What locomotives would you recommend on a small radius 1 oval with one very small siding? Greetings from Belgium 🙋♂️
@@raymondleggs5508 A lot of locomotives are indeed expensive nowadays. I buy mostly secondhand. However now I found a Ruston DS88 for 70 euros, which is reasonable I think.
I bought one of the split chassis models a while back. It was a good model for many years but unfortunately had the same problems that you described. Now I just use it for spare parts. I thought Bachmann actually did a full redesign of the B1, and I am shocked that they didn't. Considering how much they are asking for this model, and the fact that I live in the U.S., I will NOT buy it.
Hi Sam I think I found the odd one it this time. It's the Q6 because it's a 0-8-0 not a 4-6-0, and it's not in the LNER green. Hopefully I got that right ;) Cheers Jasper & Willow
14:47 look left & its visibly obvious that the cabin tilts away from the boiler & slopes towards the tender!! Must say in hindsight, I chose wisely to get rid of a Bachmann version in green and opt for the very same Hornby R3338 model in British Railways decoration you've featured in the comparisons (61310). It was around £100 new at the time but looking now, it was worth the money. In fact, Ive let my Dad have it since then & obtained myself a pre-owned R3000 "Harold Mitchell" in late crest black that I returned from DCC to analogue. Found it on eBay for around £85 DCC fitted and preferred to remove the chip instead of trying to sort out the DCC address it was assigned. Certainly my favourite Antelope and perhaps one of my favourite smaller MT locos in general. Bachmann deserved a panning for cutting corners & cheekily upping the cost without providing new features or any visible improvements to warrant £180 RRP
Would that black 4-6-0 on the outside line be the odd one out? It's the only one not painted in an LNER livery. Or the black 0-8-0? It's the only one with more than 6 coupled wheels, and I believe the only one that's not a B1, so long as the BR loco is a B1.
I was after a budget B1 for my Great Eastern mainline fleet and picked one up from the AGR Model Railway Store for £126. At that price I am happy with the model, but wouldn't touch it at anything higher as it is lacking many contemporary features as Sam showed. The unpainted cab was a surprise, but overall it does look nice and mine runs smoothly.
I'm happy to have bought the Hornby model of this one... For once, I have praise for the Margate manufacturer ! The Hornby B1 is the opposite of this model. My price for this one : GBP90. It's an equivalent of the Railroad range by Hornby, so shall be the price.
I have an old split chassis model in BR black, and honestly, completely un-modified it has been an excellent performer, I paid about £65 for mine second hand at least 10 years ago and sure I may have got lucky with mine, but I wouldn't bother replacing it with the hornby model, anyone considering buying one should consider the fact that at normal viewing distances (about 2' - roughly 60cm) its much harder to spot the poorer detailing so if you can pick up an older model for a decent price, knock yourself out, they're good ebough!
Sam I think maybe I'll buy some British models late next month, having trouble deciding which loco to get, there's so many good British outline models these days. :)
I've got a standard 4 that had this issue and rather than paying £30 plus for 3D printed insert replacements I gor two spare chassis, 2 spare motors and drives and a body for £20. Means I can practice a DCC conversion on one of them. Time consuming but works.
I agree that when a 'new' model is largely a reheated old one with no mod-cons the price should reflect that. Bachmann make many great models but their pricing is crazy. On that drawbar post/'nubbin' under the tender, it works better to cut it off and replace it with a small self-tapping screw.
I would say the 0-8-0 loco is the odd one out, decent review Sam, I think you could definitely have a look at 4 skarloey blue coaches and a break/guards van from the talyllyn railway store online in N/009 scale and run it behind prince to make it look like a passenger train
15.40 Bachmann have gone to the trouble of moulding the tender numberplate into the body, so clearly they know it exists, but then they forgot to organise a paint job for it. Duh... Thanks for a clear and honest review.
Interesting review, must say I like and I am happy with my model (but then I am probably only a casual enthusiast), runs well and I wanted LNER Apple-Green version
Another lovely video Sam well done great camera work as usual I am really looking forward to seeing your next video I hope you get a nice video next time also when is your next video going to be on RUclips bye for now Philip
I had the same issue with the tender forwards and backwards. I removed the middle wheel to run it in and then I had the bright idea to swap the wheels around and it has been fine since so I think one set of wheels is smaller than the other two and in the wrong order it balances on the middle wheel or so it would seem from my point of view anyway.
I have a few ancient B1s, all of which still work, with varying degrees of smoothness. The detailing was fine back in the day, but the fact that the body used for this "new" model is basically the same as used on the split chassis examples is rather scandalous. Thanks for the review and the warning it contains. PS: I don't think I've ever seen a Hornby B1 for sale...
I have pre-ordered Mayflower from Hornby this year and yeah, I'm glad I did. Bachmann's looks absolutely terrible in all ways compared to Hornby. Granted, Hornby's is about 20-30£ more expensive, but you do get a much better loco in my opinion. Especially on the mechanical side. As you said, pointless in my opinion and especially the lack of tender pick-ups is quite shocking. If it had them and a decoder socket in the tender, I'd say it's a decent alternative if sold at 130-140£ but yeah, not even the price reflects the glaring emissions from this model. Great review of a slightly naff model, Sam 👍
My latest Bachmann vehicle is an N scale GP40 I found on EBay. I haven’t had the change to test it so I don’t know if it works but it was probably worth the $15 I paid for it regardless. I plan on hot rodding it and I’ve already ordered parts totaling about three times as much as I paid for the locomotive.
Great video! Yeah they do seem to have variable quality. I've had one of their B1s for about 10 years and I really like it. I've never had any problems with it.... mine was £75 though
I had this model which has since been superseded by two hornby examples (when the model was cheaper). In all honesty while I agree with 99% with what you have said Sam I think that the bachmann examples here does have qualities which blew away the split chassis predecessors. I think the Bachmann B1 here is suitable for modellers who aren't really fussed about fitting DCC chips and for less experienced modellers who perhaps would buy the Hornby example at a later date. The chunkiness of this model means it's more durable in standing up to more wear & tear compared to the hornby example (and my hornby example did have a problem in the fragility of the valve gear). The bachmann B1 is also a great "project" for experienced/intrepid modellers who may wish to custom their models by replacing the dome, chimney etc & to pick out the cab detail for themselves & adding more weight to the tender etc. But I agree this model overpriced for what it is today.
my bachmann spectrum PRR K4 Pacific had the wheel covers warp as well. I did remove them but the silver metal does contrast very well to the black paint of the locomotive but without the wheel covers, the model runs very well and pulls good.
I'm surprised. Having a split chassis B1 myself (61251 Oliver Bury in BR lined black), and knowing of bachmann's poor steam mechanisms between their split chassis era and their modern era, I'm glad they've fitted a new motor and proper bearings. However, the price is excessive due to its details (or lack thereof), lack of tender connection (including pickups and tender mounted socket), and the tender derailing.
I understand why you don't like the B1 but tbh I'm a fan of it, I bought one and after running in it runs just about as well as everything else I'm running on my layout. I do get it's overly expensive but I was able to get it for 90 pounds on ebay used, wich I think was an amazing deal
I know you're not a fan of traction tires, but 0.4 Newton is nothing compared to the steam locomotives (mainly from Roco) that I have. My weakest locomotive with this same wheel arrangement still comes in at 0.54 Newton (locomotive driven on all 3 axles, 1 axle with traction tires). The next one in line pulls 1.08 Newton (tender driven on 3 out of 4 axles, 1 axle with traction tires). The strongest locomotive with 3 large driving wheels (wheel conficuration 2-6-2) has a pulling power of 1.77 Newton (locomotive driven on 3 axles, tender driven on 2 out of 4 axles, both driven tender axles have traction tires).
so with who has mutiable versions of each B1, the Tender issue is not a 1 off fault and like the Bachmann N class they seesaw on the middle axle unless you have flat track
What are Bachmann thinking? My best loco is an old Ivatt Class 2 with a split chassis. Detailing is pretty good it runs AMAZINGLY well for such an old loco (1990s) yes the axles have gone but a new set is cheap enough and i can forgive that at nearly 30 years old. It even has pick ups on the front bogie...
I have a solution for your axle problem on your split chassis Bachman locomotives. Go to North West Short Line,they have a line of repair parts that are high quality. I have used them on my old timer 4-4-0 and have had no problems.
I have one (BR Black 61003 Gazelle) which I got for £70 DCC Fitted (Previous owner’s work) in October at a model railway stall and it’s a good model for the price I paid, however I agree that it’s nowhere near good enough quality to justify an RRP of over £100 in the case of the recent releases.
Shame isn't it. Such a fabulous looking loco. I like the almost gloss finish on the boiler. A fair review, Sam. £125 rrp would of meant discounted it may have come in below £100.
A nice looking loco (for the most part!) but some of those separetely fitted parts are shocking. I think for the right price this would be an ideal beginners loco - a decent runner and reasonably accurate. In my opinion, I think that around the £60-75 mark would be good - and bachmann definitely can afford to do that - the moulds for the body and tender must have paid for themselves now. Models like this definitely have a place in the market (like the ivatt 2) but certainly not for the ridiculous price bachmann charge.
I thought only I had the plastic warping on wheels! My b1 is currently being repaired due to the connecting rods completely disfiguring and the being at a 60 ish degree angle to each other, caused by the warping twisting the wheels and so forth the pistons
You'd be horrified if you saw the Bachmann Prices in the USA. A friend of mine and I compared HO gauge Bachmann with Brass and brass came out cheaper than Bachmann every time which is quite sad
Old brass might be cheaper than Bachmann, but new brass is incredibly expensive. Old (but not modern) brass locos are incredibly inconsistent when it comes to performance and it often varies on a locomotive to locomotive basis due to them being hand built. The mechanisms were not the most well engineered and the emphasis was on looks. You often have to tinker extensively with and in some cases modify them them to get them to run as well as modern plastic models, and they are prone to shorts which can be infuriating to find. I have a ton of brass N-scale steamers, and I've found that in some cases two identical models from the same production run will have radically different levels of performance. One might run like clockwork while the other is a stuttering, stalling, derailing nightmare.
Sam - I usually complain that you've been far too generous, espcially with overpriced Bachmann dross, but in this case I think you've been a bit mean! I realise the 'rivet-counters' aren't going to like this model, and that's fine for them, but good running is my number one issue, and mine runs really well, and very smoothly even starting and stopping - I put a video of it on my channel - nor does it derail in reverse. True, the DCC socket and speaker housing should have been in the tender, and it's ridiculous that you can't have sound without some sort of rebuild, but I also got it for not much over £100, wich seems typical, so I like it a lot, and for me the performance and value scores seem very low for a change!
I lost 2 locos to warped wheel centres and have 2 more running with them removed. It seems bachmann became aware of this and started putting a hole in the middle so there was room to expand without buckling!
Yeah it's a pain isn't it? They don't make wheels like this any more luckily - the whole things are cast these days, at least on new releases! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I sometimes have to wonder if Bachman even look at their own products when coming up with the prices. How can they charge accurascale prices for a model that’s slightly above a railroad model (or sometimes equal to railroad?) Did they forget what the model is like when they priced it? Like, they saw the size of the engine and assumed it was the same quality as other locos of that size?
To late for me, I have two already one being an ex replica railways version which is 61264, I did recently just purchase a replacement chassis for my other one which is 61003 Gazelle which has the later version with a much better motor.
Honestly I'd expect something like this from hornby... But bachmann 😬.... This was a surprise as bachmann usually has amazing locos... Anyways great video Sam 👍
(@11:44) Yeah, not only that, but the lamp bracket is ridiculously close to the top handrail stanchion; the OO-scale Conductor would really struggle to get the railroad lamp on and off THAT bracket! He’d have to be a king-fu yoga master to jump up there and contort himself like a pretzel to fit the lamp on. 😢
Separate loco and tender is good for scale distances between loco and tender. Nothing looks worse than a highly detailed model with train set gaps between loco and tender.
Oh, you mean the Hornby one with the visibly warped running plate you neglected to mention. Quite frankly, I wouldn't buy either, but thanks for your otherwise fair appraisal.
I'm definitely not getting that and if I were to own one I'll have to find the same one but from a different brand that isn't Bachmann I'm pretty sure they are more Superior then that one
Hi sam, had a thought about how you might be able to sort out the tender wheels issue, I had a problem with a bachmann wagons doing the same thing so my brother got another set of wheels from a different bachmann wagon put the wheel in to the one the wheels keep coming out of and Bob's your uncle the wheels haven't come out since and the wheels that were the issue when in to the other wagon and they've not come out since. Problem solved.
The LNER B1 from Bachmann is decent which is all I can say. I prefer the Hornby B1 because it has better quality details and a better mechanism which makes the B1 perform way better than Bachmann's version Sam. The price directly from Bachmann is definitely not worth it.
Ive recently realised how naff hornby and bachmann models are when compared to continental models from companies like roco, their models are far more detailed and have so many separately fitted parts and have had lights fitted as standard since the 70s. Meanwhile over here we still have companies churning out models with warped running plates as if they have never made a loco before...
Why does the red line on the running plate on the engine not appear to be parallel with that on the tender? Is it just parallax error from the camera angle?
I think the B1 actually dates back to Dapol and possibly even designed , but never released , by Airfix . Bachmann did go through a spell where they re chassied their existing locos . The 2MT and V2 were similar (although they did do a completely new V2 after that) I suspect the reason these are majorily discounted is because of the age of the model,. Bachmann rip off . I’m surprised you are surprised lol 😂
Hi, great honest review as usual, Sam you’ve saved me so much money over the years for that I’m very grateful, I vowed to never buy Heljan locomotives and Bachmann steam locomotives after your in-depth reviews, maybe Bachmann need the extra money to pay for their Kinesis dcc system so by releasing this effort of a model will help out even though modellers are having the wool pulled over their eyes or their pants pulled down, this loco is a budget model at best so again I thank Sam for calling it out for what it is, thanks for sharing.
I think your B1 is beautiful. Then again, if it's a smooth, quiet runner you're after, I have a Hunslet 16in 0-6-0 saddle tank engine in plain green livery. I bought her from the pre-owned section of Rails of Sheffield, for £89.50. I've tested her properly and she runs like a dream, smoothly and quietly. Her name is Thorne No. 1, but she didn't like the name and I renamed her Becky. Her cab interior is superbly detailed, she has a very bright firebox glow and sprung buffers. Try a Hunslet engine if you don't already have one, I can highly recommend it.
Ah yes, the B1. I always loved those locomotives, and I wish that there were quality but cheap B1's on the market. If only Tri-ang made one back in the day. If it were quality, I would buy the old B1 by Bachmann, as I have no problem with split chassis locomotives, but that warping wheel center problem I cannot tolerate. So, can't buy an old Bachmann one.
The only reason I could see someone getting a Bachmann B1 is for the tender to remake Thomas characters like Unlucky Tug did. Otherwise it seems to perform up to expectations from Bachmann.
Judging by the looks of things, this looks like Bachmann's typical trick of sticking a new chassis under an outdated body. Same thing their V1/3 suffers from.
Just like their USRA 0-6-0.
To be fair hornby do that too but at least they usually put them in railroad. Also most of these older models have split chassis so if they didn’t use a newer chassis then DCC fitting is very difficult.
Yeah absolutely - they've done this quite a few times!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@SamsTrains in regards to the B1 and V3 ,I prefer the older split chassis stuff just for the cheapness alone. They are easy to updetail and the big solid die cast chassis makes them reasonably weighty.
Disappointed with Bachmann's LNER V2 (latest version). A thin plastic running plate which bends at the touch of a finger. Out of the box, a very poor runner (couldn't crawl, jerky when slow) but might do better when run in. Poor value at RRP (220+ pounds), would be acceptable if100 cheaper.
Often what is done Sam, is that people buy the model on special, scrap the chassis, detail the Bachmann body, and put it on another set of frames (usually Comet Models) with an old Portescap drive, or a new High Level Kits one. Why do people bother with the Bachmann model at all, I have no clue, especially with those completely wrong boiler bands! Thanks as always Sam
I bought a second - hand body years ago. It was black. The body and tender were fine. I scratch built an EM underframe with a large can motor in tender and a drive shaft to three sets of worm and gears in the body and my own outside rods and gears. Numbered as the last B1 I ever travelled behind, finishing at Nottingham Victoria. (PS I just replaced a Portescap drive in my 1967 scratchbuilt C12 Atlantic. It was an end-of-run drive and always very noisy. Now, the High Level Road Runner is noiseless).
@@johnjephcote7636I I always liked hearing stories about people modelling locos on the ones they've ridden behind. Its always lovely to remember that almost every loco will be appreciated in some form long after their service years. Also, I'm hoping eventually when I have the equipment to make a better replacement for the Portescaps, as the only drive capable of being back-driven is the Slater's sg4, and I think I can get a better low end speed with an even better flywheel effect.
What’s wrong with the boiler bands? Asking out of curiosity, the smokebox door was always a bit of a problem for some locos (it’s for the less common type) and the chimney was always awful, but the boiler I thought was acceptable?
Yeah I think that's fine - as soon as they don't sell and get reduced it's fair game - I just feel bad for the people who pay top dollar thinking it's a decent model worthy of the price tag!
@@Britishrailwaystories Simon, my problem with the boiler bands is that the white edging takes up 2/3rds of the bands and the banding is a bit thick for me. To rectify this on a Hornby 4472, I put black paint paint on all of the boiler and used a sharp knife to scrap away the 0.1 mm of edging to look like proper LNER boiler banding. I may post something in RMWeb about this as the result is almost as good as a bow pen.
Fun historical fact: the B-1s were nicknamed Bongos because that was the name of the B-1 that was pulling a train with a railway director on it, who asked for a different locomotive as he didn’t want his train being pulled by a locomotive with “such a silly name.” Word of this got around quickly, and the railway workers started calling all B-1s ‘Bongos’ just to annoy this one railway director. I love the creative ways us working class folks come up with to stick it to the aristocrats.
I was so pleased when visiting Warsaw Zoo at Praga, to see a real live Bongo!
This is not true. The first loco of the class was “Springbok” - more were subsequently named after deers - including one class member, named after a deer - “Bongo”.
Since that loco’s release to traffic in the late 1940s, they’ve been known collectively as “Bongos”.
Sorry - it’s a nice story you’ve told, but this is my specialist subject.
@@Britishrailwaystories He didn't say it was the first named one - just that the director was travelling behind it, but I'm sure you know everything. Woof!
@@tobythehairlessdog8876 I mean, I wrote the book on the Thompson quite literally. The “director asking for another locomotive” story has been debunked over and over by LNER historians, there’s absolutely no evidence for it. Railwaymen liked the name Bongo and it stuck, it’s as simple as that.
@@Britishrailwaystoriesdidn’t Thompson say when asked for a name for the prototype “utility” as he was not fond of naming locomotives?
I have four of these, bought five years ago when they were much cheaper (£57, I have checked, from Hattons). They were excellent starting points for modelling. Each has been converted to represent a different member of the class. I love them for that. For the cost at the time, I got four for the cost of one and a half Hornby ones. The split chassis mechanism was of its time, and you can now get 3D printed plastic inserts to fix the older chassis. I honestly didn’t think they were bad quality for the time, today their RRP is too high, IMO, but as starting points for modelling they are pretty good.
Wow - for £57 they're the perfect budget offering - quite surprised they were so cheap as recently as that! Thanks a lot for sharing - sounds like a great little fleet!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I have checked my blog, and, insanely, it was actually NINE years ago. That’s mad how time has flown by! I used a combination of different tenders, brass chimneys and other parts to bring them up to scratch. The chassis itself I really like, it’s very straightforward. My intended layout does not have many areas where tender pickups will absolutely be needed, it’s basically a big oval with a fiddle yard.
About the drawbar connections (17:05): on this and similar connections on other locos, I will drill out the tender pin slightly, make the connection in the repair cradle, the screw in a small screw with a washer into the connecting stub, thereby retaining the drawbar. One doesn't want to go very much wider than the drawbar for fear of actually breaking off the existing stub. This has worked well for me on several locos, including other Hornby ones, too. All that being said, once again, a Sam's review has turned me away from making buying mistake, much like the FELL review did.
"The solution is to not buy the locomotive." Well said.
Get in, another amazing video from Sam for me to watch after school :)
You do have a good point Sam 0:25
Steam locomotives without a trailing wheel arrangement often had a very rough ride. In the US, the Pennsylvania Railroad's I1 class 2-10-0 were notorious for their extremely rough ride and were pretty much hated by all the crews who ran them. The PRR G5 class 4-6-0 was also notorious for rough riding and disliked by their crews
Interesting - thanks a lot for sharing!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
For me Sam I would have to go for the Hornby B1. Although if your like me and want wanted to take your model out to a show or another layout, then I would probably get one for my layout for good price.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
I agree. I do love the bachmann finish though 🎉
It's a pity the model wasn't cheaper. Would have made a great budget alternative to Hornby's B1 if they'd made the price more reasonable and people didn't mind doing their own updates to enhance the loco. The price for the Bachmann B1 seems ridiculous when as you rightly say you could get a decent second hand Hornby B1 online somewhere. Though I admit it's a bit harder to compare the two (in terms of cost brand new) when Hornby doesn't have a B1 in their range at the moment. However I have noticed there will apparently be a B1 (mayflower) in Hornbys range that is available to preorder (£220) but that's not to say the price won't change when released. Still if it's a quality model and stays at £220 it won't hurt to spend the extra £40 over Bachmann's especially with 21 pin decoder capability etc
Hi again, Sam. An update on my previous comment. My ancient B1s are become almost unusable, so when TMC offered this model for £89 I bought one. I reckon that's an OK price for what it is.
I mean, its a beautiful looking loco - i would say the price is quire ridiculous for what you get - shame about the detail, however i do think the livery hides it a bit! Great video as always sam
Cheers Jack 😊
Bachmann have a track record of doing this sort of thing - their Ivatt 2-6-2 tank was another case where a new mechanism was created to replace the split chassis design but the ancient body retained.
As for lack of tender pick ups etc - it rather depends on what the project brief was. If the brief was literally a ‘do minimum’ / to get rid of the split chassis and make it DCC compatible then the tender would not have been part of the brief - hence it’s unchanged from the split chassis days - a fate that also befell the Collet Goods loco (though in that case getting rid of the split chassis and making it DCC compatible was done as two separate projects around 15 years apart).
Yeah they do - there's actually many examples, the V3 tank being another! That's right about the tenders!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Another fine review Sam. Well, in all fairness, if things come apart such as wheels in the tender, should we just not dismiss the loco as tosh? We would pronto. Next....
My UK layout has only radius 1 curves and a surface of 95x85 centimetres, so this beautiful steamer is not an option I am afraid 🥲 I have a Pecket, Terrier and Prairie, and an H0 Class 33. I am looking for a small diesel now, but I can't make up my mind on the new Ruston, but ut didn't really stand the test very well, did it? What locomotives would you recommend on a small radius 1 oval with one very small siding? Greetings from Belgium 🙋♂️
overpriced locomotive
@@raymondleggs5508 A lot of locomotives are indeed expensive nowadays. I buy mostly secondhand. However now I found a Ruston DS88 for 70 euros, which is reasonable I think.
I bought one of the split chassis models a while back. It was a good model for many years but unfortunately had the same problems that you described. Now I just use it for spare parts. I thought Bachmann actually did a full redesign of the B1, and I am shocked that they didn't. Considering how much they are asking for this model, and the fact that I live in the U.S., I will NOT buy it.
Yeah super frustrating isn't it? I'm shocked they didn't completely retool it too - they certainly should have done!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam I think I found the odd one it this time. It's the Q6 because it's a 0-8-0 not a 4-6-0, and it's not in the LNER green. Hopefully I got that right ;)
Cheers Jasper & Willow
That Hornby cab even has clear plastic used for the water gauges and looks fantastic
Yeah I noticed that in the footage - that's a feature not often used today!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
14:47 look left & its visibly obvious that the cabin tilts away from the boiler & slopes towards the tender!! Must say in hindsight, I chose wisely to get rid of a Bachmann version in green and opt for the very same Hornby R3338 model in British Railways decoration you've featured in the comparisons (61310). It was around £100 new at the time but looking now, it was worth the money.
In fact, Ive let my Dad have it since then & obtained myself a pre-owned R3000 "Harold Mitchell" in late crest black that I returned from DCC to analogue. Found it on eBay for around £85 DCC fitted and preferred to remove the chip instead of trying to sort out the DCC address it was assigned.
Certainly my favourite Antelope and perhaps one of my favourite smaller MT locos in general.
Bachmann deserved a panning for cutting corners & cheekily upping the cost without providing new features or any visible improvements to warrant £180 RRP
15:46 it's not NEM. NEM 360 (standard H0 coupling) is the one with movable loop and stationary hook.
Would that black 4-6-0 on the outside line be the odd one out? It's the only one not painted in an LNER livery. Or the black 0-8-0? It's the only one with more than 6 coupled wheels, and I believe the only one that's not a B1, so long as the BR loco is a B1.
I was after a budget B1 for my Great Eastern mainline fleet and picked one up from the AGR Model Railway Store for £126. At that price I am happy with the model, but wouldn't touch it at anything higher as it is lacking many contemporary features as Sam showed. The unpainted cab was a surprise, but overall it does look nice and mine runs smoothly.
I'm happy to have bought the Hornby model of this one... For once, I have praise for the Margate manufacturer ! The Hornby B1 is the opposite of this model.
My price for this one : GBP90. It's an equivalent of the Railroad range by Hornby, so shall be the price.
Hello Sam I have a 1940s Canadian pacific railroad spike that the royal Hudson passed over before it was changed out
I have an old split chassis model in BR black, and honestly, completely un-modified it has been an excellent performer, I paid about £65 for mine second hand at least 10 years ago and sure I may have got lucky with mine, but I wouldn't bother replacing it with the hornby model, anyone considering buying one should consider the fact that at normal viewing distances (about 2' - roughly 60cm) its much harder to spot the poorer detailing so if you can pick up an older model for a decent price, knock yourself out, they're good ebough!
Sam I think maybe I'll buy some British models late next month, having trouble deciding which loco to get, there's so many good British outline models these days. :)
What other models do you have?
It's certainly hard to choose isn't it??
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I've got a standard 4 that had this issue and rather than paying £30 plus for 3D printed insert replacements I gor two spare chassis, 2 spare motors and drives and a body for £20. Means I can practice a DCC conversion on one of them. Time consuming but works.
I agree that when a 'new' model is largely a reheated old one with no mod-cons the price should reflect that. Bachmann make many great models but their pricing is crazy. On that drawbar post/'nubbin' under the tender, it works better to cut it off and replace it with a small self-tapping screw.
I like watching the linkages go round and round. It looks good zipping along the track (27:34) 👍
I would say the 0-8-0 loco is the odd one out, decent review Sam, I think you could definitely have a look at 4 skarloey blue coaches and a break/guards van from the talyllyn railway store online in N/009 scale and run it behind prince to make it look like a passenger train
15.40 Bachmann have gone to the trouble of moulding the tender numberplate into the body, so clearly they know it exists, but then they forgot to organise a paint job for it. Duh...
Thanks for a clear and honest review.
Interesting review, must say I like and I am happy with my model (but then I am probably only a casual enthusiast), runs well and I wanted LNER Apple-Green version
I think the body goes back to the days of Mainline & Replica. The Hornby version of the B1 is excellent, just wish they'd do a new run of them.
Another lovely video Sam well done great camera work as usual I am really looking forward to seeing your next video I hope you get a nice video next time also when is your next video going to be on RUclips bye for now Philip
I had the same issue with the tender forwards and backwards. I removed the middle wheel to run it in and then I had the bright idea to swap the wheels around and it has been fine since so I think one set of wheels is smaller than the other two and in the wrong order it balances on the middle wheel or so it would seem from my point of view anyway.
I have a few ancient B1s, all of which still work, with varying degrees of smoothness.
The detailing was fine back in the day, but the fact that the body used for this "new" model is basically the same as used on the split chassis examples is rather scandalous.
Thanks for the review and the warning it contains.
PS: I don't think I've ever seen a Hornby B1 for sale...
I have pre-ordered Mayflower from Hornby this year and yeah, I'm glad I did. Bachmann's looks absolutely terrible in all ways compared to Hornby. Granted, Hornby's is about 20-30£ more expensive, but you do get a much better loco in my opinion. Especially on the mechanical side. As you said, pointless in my opinion and especially the lack of tender pick-ups is quite shocking. If it had them and a decoder socket in the tender, I'd say it's a decent alternative if sold at 130-140£ but yeah, not even the price reflects the glaring emissions from this model. Great review of a slightly naff model, Sam 👍
It's a shame as it is decent but not worth the price, in my opinion, especially compared to hornby. Great review, Sam.
Yeah that's right - with the Hornby one existing, there's no reason to buy this unless it's extremely discounted!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
My latest Bachmann vehicle is the GWR Rail Motor with DCC Sound. It’s a fine, reliable little machine that I think is well worth the £300 I paid.
My latest Bachmann vehicle is an N scale GP40 I found on EBay. I haven’t had the change to test it so I don’t know if it works but it was probably worth the $15 I paid for it regardless. I plan on hot rodding it and I’ve already ordered parts totaling about three times as much as I paid for the locomotive.
Good filler or starter loco at a price of 70. But not 180.
Good review Sam..the cab and smokebox door are no better than the old Mainline locos tbf
Great video! Yeah they do seem to have variable quality. I've had one of their B1s for about 10 years and I really like it. I've never had any problems with it.... mine was £75 though
Yeah absolutely - for £75 it's not quite as ridiculous!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Yea I had the feeling that an 8-pin will/would be more than enough for the "capabilities" of this loco!
I had this model which has since been superseded by two hornby examples (when the model was cheaper). In all honesty while I agree with 99% with what you have said Sam I think that the bachmann examples here does have qualities which blew away the split chassis predecessors. I think the Bachmann B1 here is suitable for modellers who aren't really fussed about fitting DCC chips and for less experienced modellers who perhaps would buy the Hornby example at a later date. The chunkiness of this model means it's more durable in standing up to more wear & tear compared to the hornby example (and my hornby example did have a problem in the fragility of the valve gear). The bachmann B1 is also a great "project" for experienced/intrepid modellers who may wish to custom their models by replacing the dome, chimney etc & to pick out the cab detail for themselves & adding more weight to the tender etc. But I agree this model overpriced for what it is today.
Was the odd one out that black 0 8 0 the q6 i belive? Only out of place loco
my bachmann spectrum PRR K4 Pacific had the wheel covers warp as well. I did remove them but the silver metal does contrast very well
to the black paint of the locomotive but without the wheel covers, the model runs very well and pulls good.
I had a bachmann Spectrum K4. Can't tell if the wheels are shot because it fell of a shelf a year ago
I'm surprised. Having a split chassis B1 myself (61251 Oliver Bury in BR lined black), and knowing of bachmann's poor steam mechanisms between their split chassis era and their modern era, I'm glad they've fitted a new motor and proper bearings.
However, the price is excessive due to its details (or lack thereof), lack of tender connection (including pickups and tender mounted socket), and the tender derailing.
I agree with you Sam, Bachman just charges more for just almost the same thing but Hornby is just honest with their prices
Thanks!
Hey sam, im planning on buying a new loco for my little cousin. Any recommendations on a cheap 4-6-0?
I understand why you don't like the B1 but tbh I'm a fan of it, I bought one and after running in it runs just about as well as everything else I'm running on my layout. I do get it's overly expensive but I was able to get it for 90 pounds on ebay used, wich I think was an amazing deal
I know you're not a fan of traction tires, but 0.4 Newton is nothing compared to the steam locomotives (mainly from Roco) that I have.
My weakest locomotive with this same wheel arrangement still comes in at 0.54 Newton (locomotive driven on all 3 axles, 1 axle with traction tires). The next one in line pulls 1.08 Newton (tender driven on 3 out of 4 axles, 1 axle with traction tires). The strongest locomotive with 3 large driving wheels (wheel conficuration 2-6-2) has a pulling power of 1.77 Newton (locomotive driven on 3 axles, tender driven on 2 out of 4 axles, both driven tender axles have traction tires).
so with who has mutiable versions of each B1, the Tender issue is not a 1 off fault and like the Bachmann N class they seesaw on the middle axle unless you have flat track
What are Bachmann thinking? My best loco is an old Ivatt Class 2 with a split chassis. Detailing is pretty good it runs AMAZINGLY well for such an old loco (1990s) yes the axles have gone but a new set is cheap enough and i can forgive that at nearly 30 years old.
It even has pick ups on the front bogie...
I have a solution for your axle problem on your split chassis Bachman locomotives. Go to North West Short Line,they have a line of repair parts that are high quality. I have used them on my old timer 4-4-0 and have had no problems.
I have one (BR Black 61003 Gazelle) which I got for £70 DCC Fitted (Previous owner’s work) in October at a model railway stall and it’s a good model for the price I paid, however I agree that it’s nowhere near good enough quality to justify an RRP of over £100 in the case of the recent releases.
Shame isn't it. Such a fabulous looking loco. I like the almost gloss finish on the boiler. A fair review, Sam. £125 rrp would of meant discounted it may have come in below £100.
A nice looking loco (for the most part!) but some of those separetely fitted parts are shocking. I think for the right price this would be an ideal beginners loco - a decent runner and reasonably accurate. In my opinion, I think that around the £60-75 mark would be good - and bachmann definitely can afford to do that - the moulds for the body and tender must have paid for themselves now. Models like this definitely have a place in the market (like the ivatt 2) but certainly not for the ridiculous price bachmann charge.
Yeah absolutely - shocking up close! That sounds a reasonable price, but not much more!
That’s why I prefer the hornby version of the b1 better than bachmann. Don’t have one yet but waiting for the new release from Hornby
12:30 even the seats have moulding flash as well.
These Bachmann B1 is better then the most new Hornby Things this year... nothing more i have to say about her. 🤣
I thought only I had the plastic warping on wheels! My b1 is currently being repaired due to the connecting rods completely disfiguring and the being at a 60 ish degree angle to each other, caused by the warping twisting the wheels and so forth the pistons
I do like B1’s, they are nice engines. This model isn’t worth the RRP, but it is still a B1, so from a distance it looks nice
Awesome video today Sam I think I might have to get the hornby one
I wonder if that O4 was the odd one out now. Because most of the locos are lner, maybe 4-6-0s
WAIT he has a mini tardis model on his layout (or it's just a police box)
Brilliant looking B1 model loco😊
Lovely video Sam 😊.
Cheers 92
Awesome video Sam's trains 😊
You'd be horrified if you saw the Bachmann Prices in the USA. A friend of mine and I compared HO gauge Bachmann with Brass and brass came out cheaper than Bachmann every time which is quite sad
Old brass might be cheaper than Bachmann, but new brass is incredibly expensive. Old (but not modern) brass locos are incredibly inconsistent when it comes to performance and it often varies on a locomotive to locomotive basis due to them being hand built. The mechanisms were not the most well engineered and the emphasis was on looks. You often have to tinker extensively with and in some cases modify them them to get them to run as well as modern plastic models, and they are prone to shorts which can be infuriating to find. I have a ton of brass N-scale steamers, and I've found that in some cases two identical models from the same production run will have radically different levels of performance. One might run like clockwork while the other is a stuttering, stalling, derailing nightmare.
Sam - I usually complain that you've been far too generous, espcially with overpriced Bachmann dross, but in this case I think you've been a bit mean!
I realise the 'rivet-counters' aren't going to like this model, and that's fine for them, but good running is my number one issue, and mine runs really well, and very smoothly even starting and stopping - I put a video of it on my channel - nor does it derail in reverse.
True, the DCC socket and speaker housing should have been in the tender, and it's ridiculous that you can't have sound without some sort of rebuild, but I also got it for not much over £100, wich seems typical, so I like it a lot, and for me the performance and value scores seem very low for a change!
I lost 2 locos to warped wheel centres and have 2 more running with them removed. It seems bachmann became aware of this and started putting a hole in the middle so there was room to expand without buckling!
Yeah it's a pain isn't it? They don't make wheels like this any more luckily - the whole things are cast these days, at least on new releases!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
You could try to add some weight in that tender, it might help out.
Love the colour and running of the loco
I sometimes have to wonder if Bachman even look at their own products when coming up with the prices. How can they charge accurascale prices for a model that’s slightly above a railroad model (or sometimes equal to railroad?)
Did they forget what the model is like when they priced it? Like, they saw the size of the engine and assumed it was the same quality as other locos of that size?
Watching many US videos on HO...it appears wheel flange depth is an issue...what do you think Sam?
As someone with Aspergers I can very much confirm that this Bachmann is indeed on the Spectrum
To late for me, I have two already one being an ex replica railways version which is 61264, I did recently just purchase a replacement chassis for my other one which is 61003 Gazelle which has the later version with a much better motor.
Hey Sam - I hav2 2 B1's from Hornby & they both have Tender Pick ups!!! 🙂🚂🚂🚂
Honestly I'd expect something like this from hornby... But bachmann 😬.... This was a surprise as bachmann usually has amazing locos...
Anyways great video Sam 👍
Yeah Bachmann are actually quite a common culprit for this - they've done this many times!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
(@11:44) Yeah, not only that, but the lamp bracket is ridiculously close to the top handrail stanchion; the OO-scale Conductor would really struggle to get the railroad lamp on and off THAT bracket! He’d have to be a king-fu yoga master to jump up there and contort himself like a pretzel to fit the lamp on. 😢
Separate loco and tender is good for scale distances between loco and tender. Nothing looks worse than a highly detailed model with train set gaps between loco and tender.
Sam, do me a favour and measure the wheelbase of the driving wheels: should be a scale 7' 3" + 9' 0". That model just doesn't *look* right..
Oh, you mean the Hornby one with the visibly warped running plate you neglected to mention. Quite frankly, I wouldn't buy either, but thanks for your otherwise fair appraisal.
No expert but the tender looks a bit wonky to me sloping forward downwards a tad?
If it's a poor runner why not make a custom fitted Atlantic bodyshell for the chassis and you've got yourself a lore accurate Henry Mk1
I'm definitely not getting that and if I were to own one I'll have to find the same one but from a different brand that isn't Bachmann I'm pretty sure they are more Superior then that one
Hi sam, had a thought about how you might be able to sort out the tender wheels issue, I had a problem with a bachmann wagons doing the same thing so my brother got another set of wheels from a different bachmann wagon put the wheel in to the one the wheels keep coming out of and Bob's your uncle the wheels haven't come out since and the wheels that were the issue when in to the other wagon and they've not come out since. Problem solved.
My uncle isn't called Bob!!
The LNER B1 from Bachmann is decent which is all I can say. I prefer the Hornby B1 because it has better quality details and a better mechanism which makes the B1 perform way better than Bachmann's version Sam. The price directly from Bachmann is definitely not worth it.
Ive recently realised how naff hornby and bachmann models are when compared to continental models from companies like roco, their models are far more detailed and have so many separately fitted parts and have had lights fitted as standard since the 70s. Meanwhile over here we still have companies churning out models with warped running plates as if they have never made a loco before...
Why does the red line on the running plate on the engine not appear to be parallel with that on the tender? Is it just parallax error from the camera angle?
I think the B1 actually dates back to Dapol and possibly even designed , but never released , by Airfix . Bachmann did go through a spell where they re chassied their existing locos . The 2MT and V2 were similar (although they did do a completely new V2 after that) I suspect the reason these are majorily discounted is because of the age of the model,. Bachmann rip off . I’m surprised you are surprised lol 😂
You would think Bachmann diesels are made by a different company to Bachmann steam, My Tinsley cl47 is superb £220 sound fitted plus weathered.
Oooooh. Ouch. This one will be in contention for bottom 5 locos this year. 😬
Hi, great honest review as usual, Sam you’ve saved me so much money over the years for that I’m very grateful, I vowed to never buy Heljan locomotives and Bachmann steam locomotives after your in-depth reviews, maybe Bachmann need the extra money to pay for their Kinesis dcc system so by releasing this effort of a model will help out even though modellers are having the wool pulled over their eyes or their pants pulled down, this loco is a budget model at best so again I thank Sam for calling it out for what it is, thanks for sharing.
I think your B1 is beautiful. Then again, if it's a smooth, quiet runner you're after, I have a Hunslet 16in 0-6-0 saddle tank engine in plain green livery. I bought her from the pre-owned section of Rails of Sheffield, for £89.50. I've tested her properly and she runs like a dream, smoothly and quietly. Her name is Thorne No. 1, but she didn't like the name and I renamed her Becky. Her cab interior is superbly detailed, she has a very bright firebox glow and sprung buffers. Try a Hunslet engine if you don't already have one, I can highly recommend it.
Ah yes, the B1. I always loved those locomotives, and I wish that there were quality but cheap B1's on the market. If only Tri-ang made one back in the day. If it were quality, I would buy the old B1 by Bachmann, as I have no problem with split chassis locomotives, but that warping wheel center problem I cannot tolerate. So, can't buy an old Bachmann one.
The only reason I could see someone getting a Bachmann B1 is for the tender to remake Thomas characters like Unlucky Tug did. Otherwise it seems to perform up to expectations from Bachmann.
It needs an extra half star for the fingerprint on the cab glazing.
So amazing review sam