An Anglican Catholic view of the Papacy
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Intended to be a gentle and respectful reason for why Anglican Catholics do not accept the claims of the modern Papacy.
Nonetheless, God bless the Pope and all in communion with him. And God bless all those who follow Orthodox belief and cannot be in communion with him.
Praying also for unity of all Christians in love and fellowship.
This video has really given me some beautiful points to reflect upon. May God continue to bless you Father.
As a catholic it is interesting to see your views, I pray for the union of Anglo-Catholics and the Catholic Church again 🙏🏻. God bless you Fr
I for the most part agree with you, Father. This is one reason I’m strongly considering the Anglican Catholic Church.
I loved that you try to keep out of internet debates.
God bless you.❤
God bless you too! May you find a place where you can truly thrive in God's grace.
May the Lord bless your searching and discernment! I have found the joy in Christ in Word and Sacrament in the ACC.
We attend St Chrysostom's Church, Manchester and feel my son and I have found the right place of worship.
Excellent news! I hope you have many happy and fulfilling years there in God's service.
@@Warwickensis Thank you
@@Warwickensis My son has finally got a date for his confirmation. 28th July 2024 when the Bishop of Manchester will be there at St Chrysostoms.
That's lovely news! I pray that he may experience all the riches of that sacrament all his life long.
Thank you Father, balanced and humane, as always.
Thanks for listening
As a Roman Catholic I am always hoping for the reunification of the Roman Church with ALL the Christian faiths. I heard that there are some 47,000 of them. If someone doesn't like something about the church he attends, just find some others who feel the same and form their own church. As I understand it, Henry VIII did not want to abolish Catholicism, he just wanted to be able to divorce/annul marriages. Luther didn't want to form a new church. He thought the Roman Church was wrong with selling indulgences, and he was right. But, he ran up against a Pope that wouldn't listen. Of course, if the Church had quit selling indulgences, St. Peter's wouldn't have been completed, at least, not right away.
I think we have to be careful when we say "there are X different Christian faiths" as I think the majority of Christians accept the Nicene Creed even if they demur from saying so. In fact, I would go so far to say that the majority of Christian groups would hold to the Quicunque Vult. This does mean whatever we think X is, in truth it may be much, much smaller. The faith of most Christians was founded in 33AD with Our Lord's resurrection, but the polity of their communities will have arisen later.
How does The Anglican Catholic church differ from the Anglo-Catholic church?
@@kayedal-haddad might this help?
ruclips.net/video/ThtP-YdmUTo/видео.html
Thank you father. Do you think you can make a video about King Charles I and the position of the Anglican Catholic Church on his martyrdom? Thank you.
Thank you for the suggestion. I'll put it on my to-do list and see what happens.
@@Warwickensis thank you
As a follow up , just to say am reading a book on Celtic Christianity at the moment , Lindisfarne , Iona , Ireland in general but once adopted by Rome the church certainly seemed to align with the empire & The Pope was emperor & as various crises occurred it only got worse & more heavy handed, first time listening to you perhaps you could do a talk on the Celtic Church & the synod of Whitby to my mind at least that was a watershed moment , necessary perhaps for unity but was heavy handed at the same time
Right. Synod of Whitby goes on the to-do list, too.
This is a bit off the beaten path, Fr., but are any of your books available as ebooks? That would be an enormous help to me in how I study (though who doesn’t love the feel of a paper book?)
Yes, if you search Lulu, you'll find that there are ebook versions of several of my books.
www.lulu.com/search?contributor=Fr+Jonathan+Munn+OblOSB
Many thanks, Fr.!
@@Zhought3391 always a pleasure!
Hello Father, I came in late so maybe I missed it. Do you belong to an organized church? Are you a member of the Church of England? What is your opinion of the CofE's approval of abortion, divorce, ordination of women, the validity of Anglican orders? Good video.
Hello. Whether you are late or not it's good to hear from you.
I think all of your questions are answered on this channel somewhere along the line, but just to be brief, I am a member of the Anglican Catholic Church which has dioceses worldwide. Our UK diocese has a website here:
www.anglicancatholic.org.uk/
We're not in communion with the Church of England so I can't really comment on what they believe except when it impacts on us. For our part, our commitment is to be faithful to what the Church has always taught.
Hello father
For some time I have thought it is Greece and Rome’s responsibility to heal the divisions within Christianity. Not Protestants.
As it stands those two large churches seem to be playing a game of poaching as many Protestants as possible. That’s entirely their right, evangelism is good. But the way I look at it is this:
When there is a divorce and the kids choose to stay with one or the other parent, that doesn’t make the family more or less unified. It just makes the two clumps of the family larger or smaller.
If Rome and Greece could unite it would give them an opportunity to rexaminie certain problems in the wake of Vatican 1 and 2, and problems in the orthodox world as well.
When East and west unite then more and more Protestants will know where to go home. Until then we’re getting pulled in half.
In my own life, in my Protestant community, I have seen the final frontier of sola scriptura end in anti trinitarianism. A lot of young Protestants in evangelical environments are realizing that there’s no bottom to how much lone pastors can interpret the Bible.
That's an interesting analogy. I'd like to think that we Anglican Catholics might see about how we can play our part in bringing East and West together.
I wonder what you think Protestants ought to do to proceed. As you say, with Rome and Constantinople at doctrinal loggerheads (though there is certainly a good rapprochement taking place at the moment) it seems unfair for Christians to take sides.
Protestantism does lend itself to fragmentation but need it? What does reunification look like for those of a Protestant standing?
@@Warwickensis Great Questions Father.
I apologize, I was in a rush writing my previous comment and didn't mean to speak about Protestants so broadly and dismissively. I'm very ignorant about huge communities like your own church or other mainline denominations like Congregationalists.
My perspective has been deeply shaped by my experiences in American non denominational evangelical churches. Because these communities are often dependent on a sole founder who is not connected to a larger tradition or leadership structure, things can get theologically "dodgy," if I may be permitted to use an English expression
😅.
The rude awakening came in college when the man who had baptized me started introducing anti trinitarian literature into our bible studies. I realized that he had moved the doctrine of the Trinity outside of his personal definition of what C.S. Lewis' called "Mere Christianity." In other words "One nature three persons" was now up for debate and not essential doctrine in my church.
Ever since then I have been very concerned to figure out if we as Protestants can define and defend the core essentials, like the Trinity, in a way consistent with our view of Church history and Catholicism.
If I could imagine a way Protestants can help with Unity, it would be to either seek out Protestant communions that agree on the core essentials, or join one of the two larger Churches and work towards unification.
I really enjoyed your video because I think you hit the nail on the head with how Protestants are caught up in the middle between these two Larger Churches. I also appreciate your perspective on agreeing with as much as we can with the two churches where they overlap.
And I really really appreciate your hesitancy to go down the youtube angry debate rabbit hole. Christendom has been trying arguing since the great schism and it hasn't worked haha!
Pray for me Father
@@silassmith5348 pray for you? Without hesitation! God bless you!
I would sure like to see the latin catholic churches start allowing priests to marry.
It would be good for a priest to choose celibacy for himself. Both married and celibate priests have something to give and I think a celibacy voluntarily chosen over marriage as an acceptable alternative has greater value than celibacy as a necessary condition of the priesthood.
The same is true of the Sacrament of Confession. It's of greater value when undertaken out of love rather than obligation.
Simplex Priests.
I think the Orthodox pattern has merit. If celibacy is to be imposed (and I don't think it should, given the Pauline affirmation of Episcopal marriage) then let it be for the Bishops. Bishops who come from the monastic communities such as Benedictines, Cluniacs and Cistercians might be able to revive the sense of spirituality that the Episcopacy demands.
In the CofE, Bishops seem to be middle management rather than pastors and spiritual leaders.
Thuc,Lefebvre,Mendez,lines of Bishops & Priests are keeping the traditional Rites of Episcopal Consecration & Ordination alive during this emergency. Our focus should be on obtaining & keeping alive the traditional Rite of Holy Orders current until we have a Catholic Pope/Hierarchy.
So essentially the Anglican Catholic claim is that you are councilarist?
We would favour a conciliarist position, yes, just like the Orthodox Church.
Who is the head of the Anglican Church and what is their basis of authority for interpreting tne bible? I only ask because there seems to be a lot of mixed beliefs withing the Anglican Church that are acceptable. For example some believe in transubstantiation but others do not. Is the Eucharist even properly consecrated for transubstantiation?
The acting Primate of the Anglican Catholic Church is the Most Rev Mark Haverland who was elected to that office by due process by the College of Bishops all of whom hold the apostolic succession.
He, like the other bishops in the Anglican Catholic Church, holds the authority to interpret Holy Scripture as interpreted by the Church Fathers and the Seven Oecumenical Councils in college with his brother bishops.
We believe in the Real and objective presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
All this can be found in our document known as The Affirmation of St Louis.
@@Warwickensis Thank you! I'll check it out. Also are you Orthodox Anglican (Gafcon)? And do you guys receive the Eucharist via intinction?
We are not part of GAFCON nor any part of the Anglican Communion.
We do not hold to the 39 Articles, nor the Anglican Homilies.
We don't usually intinct except where circumstances demand. It's perfectly acceptable to receive the Eucharist in one kind.
@@Warwickensis I guess this is where I get confused. There are Anglicans that allow female priests (Episcopal usually), there are Traditional Anglicans (Anglo-Catholics) and then there is Gafcon or Orthodox Anglicans. I'm looking for a Church that is traditional, united, believes in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist and gives out both the Body and Blood of Christ as commanded by Christ and written in the writings of the early church fathers (intinction). Those to me are the marks of the true church.
@@TruLuan you will find all of these in what is known as the Anglican Continuum. This consists of the Anglican Catholic Church, the Anglican Church in America, and the Anglican Province of America. The Anglican Catholic Church is the largest and has a considerable presence globally. See
anglicancatholic.org
Do you offer the Sarum Rite?
We have two priests in this country that offer the Sarum Use and one in France. One also broadcasts his Masses live on Facebook.
@@Warwickensis So,you personally don't offer the Sarum Missal?
@@E.C.2 not yet. I am in the process of learning it. At present, I personally use the English Missal which is the Gregorian Canon in Cranmerian English.
@@Warwickensis Awesome, I would love to attend a valid Sarum Rite Holy Mass.
@@E.C.2 Rochester and Dudley are the best bet. Check our website for details.
anglicancatholic.org.uk
Pope Francis revived the title Patriarch of the West
I heard! Very interesting.
I like your line of argument(well you like to avoid argument so bad choice of words) but as a Catholic not in communion with Rome , yes there is an imperialism inherent in the Roman Church that certainly can’t be found in scripture or perhaps the early church even , however that is the most Anglican Catholic video ever , God Bless You , but going out of your way to avoid causing the slightest offense to anyone ever
No. St Ignatius of Antioch says that Catholic means the congregation gathered around their bishop. St Vincent of Lérins says The Catholic Faith is the faith that is believed by everyone at all times everywhere. St Cyril says Catholic means "not Donatist". The Orthodox Church is Catholic because they hold to the Nicene Creed. In the original definition of Catholic, neither Rome nor the Pope are mentioned.
According to the Orthodox Church, Anglican Orders are valid but schismatic. If Anglican Orders are invalid then, according to the *same* reasons that Pope Leo wrote, Roman Catholic Orders after Vatican II are also invalid because they changed the form.
Anglican Catholic Orders are valid because our line of succession runs through the Old Catholic and Polish National Catholic Churches.
@erdodiszilard2407 I have made no such admission, though I do concede that some Anglicans have rendered their orders doubtful by ordaining women. Until that happened, the Orthodox Churches recognised validity of Anglican Orders, namely Patriarch Meletios of Constantinople in 1922, Patriarch Damianos of Jerusalem, Archbishop Cyril of Cyprus and Patriarch Meletios of Alexandria all issued statements that Anglican Orders were valid but schismatic. But we are not Anglicans, we are Anglican Catholics. We have Anglican Orders in our lineage but we have never ordained women.
Further the Polish National Catholic Church have orders that are recognised by Rome. They have been involved in our lineage.
Former Anglican Bishop of London Graham Leonard became a Roman Catholic Priest sub conditione. There was sufficient doubt about his invalidity for Rome to make that concession.
But we do not need recognition by Rome, though we are willing to worship with them. Anglican Catholic Orders are certainly valid according to the practice and succession of the Early Church. We celebrate a valid Eucharist in which we present the Real Objective and Worshipful Presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
I would suggest, given that I stated I did not want a debate about this, that no further comment on your part is necessary.