Attic Mounted HF Loop Antenna In HOA, Does It Work?
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2018
- I went to my friends house to check out his setup and get him up and running on some HF digital modes. A lot of hams are struggling in an HOA with antennas outdoors. I have some plans to go back to his house with some new ideas for stealth outdoor antennas, and some more tests with other options in his attic. But for now, John has worked more DX stations on PSK31 and FT8 from his attic mounted antenna then a lot of other hams have all year.
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Thank Goodness, I am not in a HOA but my wife wants to move into one. Reminds me of College when I had a 80m dipole hanging out the window and an SB-102 on my desk. The wire was extremely small. Turns out it was military surplus and was copper coated steel. It ran from my window to some pine trees. No one ever suspected a thing. I covered the radio with a towel when not in use. Another solution is a large screwdriver antenna or even two used as a dipole. I recently owned a large screwdriver antenna and was very impressed with the operation in the mobile. Hi-Q antennas makes such a setup and it would fit in most attics as a loaded dipole. Another approach that I have considered is to put up a bird house on top of a 6" x 6" hollow pole. Put the screwdriver antenna inside and run a buried counterpoise. The house I am considering moving to is on the water. I would throw a ground strap in the water and use that as the counterpoise. Of course everything would be buried and out of site and done at night. There are always ways to get on ham radio.
Eric that's really nice of you helping out John that's what it's all about by the way tell John he's got a beautiful home and I love a setup when I lived in a condominium I had a cushcraft 124 wB antenna for 2m and I put that in the attic and I worked all over the place with it it worked great and then I ran off my rain gutters and how they mfj tuner Kenwood TS 940 at that time and I did all the work myself but it's nice you're helping them out I think it's great keep making those videos
It's nice to see a modest station instead of 90 foot towers with beams on top.
I use an indoor h/b mag. loop to null out noise but managed to fit an inverted U for 40m into my 25 foot long garden with a maximum height of 20 feet to transmit on.
Dipoles in the attic for 20, 17, 15, 12 and 10m, less noise on these bands.
G4GHB.
Another option for people trapped in a less than optimal residence, is the SGC line of Tuners. The Sgc 237 or 239. Mount them near the ceiling corner of an upstairs loft and use thin gauge magnet wire held up with clear push-pins 📌 and run as much wire as you can around the top of the room(s)then run 10 watts or less power. Now you have a giant horizontal loop workable on any band. I did this for several years and ran CW QRP and also psk31. It was a challenge, but that was part of the fun, of being in those situations. There are so many options for hams today vs 20 years ago.
I also used a long metal woodworking clamp with a mount for a Hamstick attached to my wooden deck. I also ran counterpoise wires cut for each band I operated on and taped them to my wooden deck. All of the radials connected to a jumper cable type clamp which I clamped to the metal woodworking clamp. I then got a piece of outdoor green rug and covered my radials on the deck, so the landlord could see a bunch of wires. I had that setup for 3 years and worked QRP cw into Japan from Albany, NY.
Great video Eric! I look forward to seeing other antenna options for HOA. 73
I just made a small transmitting loop using cheap materials bought largely from Amazon that works like a champ on 30m. I'm near Philadelphia, and hit Fargo, ND with 50 watts using FT8. The antenna was indoors, on the first floor, sitting on a little table by my workbench. It wasn't a fluke, either. I hit South Carolina twice, and northern Illinois near the Wisconsin border. The radio is an Elecraft KX3 with the KXPA100 amplifier running at 50W.
The loop is polyurethane plastic pipe hanger strap, 3/4" wide, perforated. The conductor is copper foil tape with conductive adhesive, 1/2" wide. I bought a bulk box of cheap wooden meter-sticks for supports, and a little boxwood pallet for the base. The varicap and vernier were from Amazon. The coax is RG-174, purchased with a single BNC connector preattached from Sotabeams. Someone willing to go to the lumberyard and buy furring strips and something cheaper for a base might be able to do it more cheaply than I did, and the pipe strap isn't as rigid as I might like, but it doesn't have to be pretty.
The only reason it took me a couple of weeks to build was that I wanted to do it RIGHT, and had to wait for some of the materials to arrive. I also had to order a box of wood screws at the last minute to mount the capacitor on the base. I'm sure I can make it prettier given some time to fiddle with it.
Pictures are here:
plus.google.com/u/0/+GwenPatton/posts/Mjw8HzXZcj2
I think a good video would be how to run the coax from the attic to your room! Great Video Eric!
I have one of these in my attic too. I use it as a backup to my end fed dipole. They are a pain to tune and have a significant noise floor up there. Thanks for the new perspective de AA1JV, Viera FL
I'm moving to Vero Lake Estates next week, can't wait to set up.
3:05 FYI - the TV antenna rotator is installed upside-down. Perhaps it doesn't matter, but still... The bearings would be loaded incorrectly, the grease is unlikely to be in the right place after a few years, and the orange cable is being dragged around unnecessarily.
I've got G5RV mounted in my attic using electric fence insulators. Have worked Austrailia using ft8. Have to bend the dipole ends halfway on each side in order for it to fit in the attic but works well. Main problem I have is noise floor. Always a constant s7
Enjoyed the video very much. I had the AEA version of this antenna in my attic, but never used it because it's picky about what's around it and it often wouldn't load up. After the controller was destroyed in a flood, I got rid of it. I had an open loop in my attic, basically a dipole bend into a rectangle and it worked OK, but had some odd quirks, like a major null to the northwest on 20. After the flood, the air handler was put in the attic and much of the ductwork rerouted, so I have to find a way to put another antenna up there without it being near the ducts. Been off the air since 2016 and hope to be back soon.
Thanks for sharing...I can't wait to see your vids. I have a Hustler 6BTV, but 10m sucks on it, and there is no 6m. I'd love to see how you guys do it in an HOA community
Keep the stealth antenna ideas coming - I just moved from a home with a 35' tower and hexbeam to an HOA neighborhood and am researching antenna options while suffering from hexbeam withdrawal - LOL!
What did you end up using? I have a half wave dipole and looking for other alternatives.
You've heard of "Toys in the Attic". Well, this is "noise in the attic", but it works!
Use a HyEndFed balun with 19/20 meter steel fishing wire. That stuff is stark and almost invisible. Works great on 40 meters.
Look at my MFJ-1788 in my loft, horizontal polarisation ,40 Watts, 83 countries from UK, 5 continents! All SSB.
Why mount the rotor upside down? Just curious.
What about phone though. Ft8 and such are low power digital
How about a flagpole antenna or a gutter antenna. Maybe a Christmas lights antenna where you disable the light bulbs from lighting up with RF, and leave the light strung up all year round.
Why does he have the rotor mounted upside down?
Hello from kf4kdu, John in central Florida. I'm in a new construction house (within an HOA) that has the foil layer on the inside of the roof sheeting. I know it is an impedance to attic antennas, it is also a detriment to any kind of rf communication from within the house. It just occurred to me whether the foil itself could be used as the hf antenna. I'm certainly no expert on antennas but I just wonder. What do you think about this?
This tells me not to give up! There are solutions.. and to keep practicing tuning to get those bands . And if at all possible stay away from hoa,s ty 73👍😎📡🍺
I ran the Original AEA Isoloop before MFJ even made this. That was in like 1994. Great antennas ! For difficult conditions. Just run low power. Don’t put it in the same room as yourself.
I had one of those too and it worked well in a couple of my QTHs, but not the house I'm living in now. In my current attic, didn't seem to want to load anywhere, so I ended up with a large half wave open wire loop which worked OK. Had to take that down after the flood because my AC air handler got moved up there and ductwork was rerouted. Trying to come up with a new antenna for my attic space. I thought about getting one of these and putting it in a different location from before. Might be worth a shot.
Could you use the hoop for cb
I wished you had tried SSB on the attic loop. I am considering one for my attic HOA.
You mentioned a magnet wire along the edge of the roof, I had tried this and found it worked well. But I had tied a fishing weight to mine and just tossed it over the roof itself. One day there was a storm, in the wind the wire had sagged to along my kitchen window level. I did not know this. One night some time later. I was awoken by a loud racket up on the roof about 2 in the morning. I could not find the cause and went back to bed. The next day I found that someone had been right outside the kitchen window and had apparently gotten tangled up in the fine wire drooping down. But my wire antenna was now wrapped in a tanged bundle and hung on a birdfeeder near by. I have no idea why they were out there at 2:00 AM. But the antenna worked well in a different way than intended.
I too live in an HOA controlled neighborhood.
Why is the rotator upside down ?
Is this a stucco house? I like the idea for an attic antenna my house has the tile, metal on the plywood and stucco. If it worked for your friend John, it should work for me.
Silvertip antennas KJ4ADN makes a nice sota 20m antenna
Psk31 still on the same frequencies??? I had a lot of time without hear anyone on psk31 (that’s my favorite digital mode, I’m not that kind of computer talking with computer guy)
I don't have an attic. I live on the ground floor of a three-storey apartment building, and my lease carries an outright prohibition on erecting antennas anywhere on the property.
exactly how would you get the standoffs up there without being seen?
Christmas time, or Hurricane shutter install day :)
Put the standoffs up, wait a while for the nosey neighbors to get used to it, then go back up and add the wire.
i don't know if i have mentioned this on your channel or not but a HOA can not stop you from putting up a ham antenna due to federal law and FCC rules as these Radios are used in case of Emergency HOA's have already been taken to court and lost due to this fact please check further into this.
Mike M type in amateur radio parity act of 2017 AARL has it in their book senate bill 1534 and house bill 555 also all kind of stuff comes up about this again a HOA can not stop you .
FCC part 97.15 (b)
§97.15 Station antenna structures.
(a) Owners of certain antenna structures more than 60.96 meters (200 feet) above ground level at the site or located near or at a public use airport must notify the Federal Aviation Administration and register with the Commission as required by part 17 of this chapter.
(b) Except as otherwise provided herein, a station antenna structure may be erected at heights and dimensions sufficient to accommodate amateur service communications. (State and local regulation of a station antenna structure must not preclude amateur service communications. Rather, it must reasonably accommodate such communications and must constitute the minimum practicable regulation to accomplish the state or local authority's legitimate purpose. See PRB-1, 101 FCC 2d 952 (1985) for details.)
Thanks, going to bring this to my board
I run a 20 meter dipole with another 10 and 6 fan dipole (inverted vees) with great sucess from my loft roof space.. Hardly any difference from outdoor setup really..
I'd try a Half Square, fed in the corner via a second story window. 73 DE W8LV Bill.
I use a Super MP1 antenna in my apartment M0YCQ
what about "flagpole verticles?"
50 watts on PSK31?? I hope that was a mistake - most books I've read on the subject recommend no more than about 5 watts, and I didn't mention anything about RF exposure...
Thats right Michael, when I was on PSK-31, 5-10 watts was recommended as anything over 15 watts wiped out a lot of the other contacts as up to 20 different contacts are on the same freq.
My attic in Oregon looks the same, just loose fill
I wish I could do a flagpole lol.
Aluminium gutters cut to length? lol
I don't think I could help much there, one reason I stay away from HOA's!
73's
KF5AQF
KJ4YZI de KD4ID
As an ex ham struggling in an HOA, I can't wait to see what you come up with.
Please give a couple of practical ideas.
73 Dan KD4ID
I tapped my rain gutters. Tried a portable 18 foot vertical, the gutters worked better. I tried a loop inside the house, it didn’t do well. I think I might try running a wire inside my gutters next. Also, look up attic broadband butterfly terminated dipole antennas, particularly the ones that can be cut to run the exact length of any roof perimeter. I will try that antenna next, it presumably tunes all the ham bands with decent gain and is the perfect HOA stealth antenna. 73! - KM4BGQ
Update: my vertical actually works now. I had it mounted on a copper pipe, and apparently the losses into the ground were too high.
Set up an attena anyway they can't stop you Federal law is on your side.
Yeah but the problem is they see you putting it up.thats where the trouble begins. Believe me I'm going through it right now. I cant do anything outside without some old lady seeing me lol.
Go outdoors. Get away from house RFI, wall warts, switching supplies, computers, monitors, TVs, washers, dryers, routers ... yes, everything. Stealth outdoors. Don't look back. Thank me later. You're welcome.
And that is why I will never live in a HOA again!
Soon be no towers anywhere as everyone's on internet radio
Yeah, everybody should be allowed to put their car up on blocks on their front lawn; neighbors be damned!
It looks like it said 7058.7 km or around 4386 miles. Not too bad for being inside the attic.
Yup. You are right. Either way, it doesn't matter. It is working. Check out my video uploading today about band conditions.
I saw that. How is it 7000 KM from Florida to Ontario Canada? Or did I miss something?
Great, useful and informative video as usual, but distances are in kilometers not miles
Yah you are right, but it is irrelevant. It's working.
Eug P Yep I noticed that too but you got there first de AA1JV
What do you think about the Amateur Radio Parity Act? Nothing like some FCC protection against angry HOA's to really burn some bridges with your neighborhood binocular enthusiasts.
The rotor was mounted upside down!
moving to a newly built 2 storey house soon.. i will never tell my neighbors that i am a ham. i will use my attic for any means of antenna and i will run a kilowatt.. :) if you let them know, then they will blame you for any issues of interference even its a different one and not cause by you.
FCC part 97.15 (b)
§97.15 Station antenna structures.
(a) Owners of certain antenna structures more than 60.96 meters (200 feet) above ground level at the site or located near or at a public use airport must notify the Federal Aviation Administration and register with the Commission as required by part 17 of this chapter.
(b) Except as otherwise provided herein, a station antenna structure may be erected at heights and dimensions sufficient to accommodate amateur service communications. (State and local regulation of a station antenna structure must not preclude amateur service communications. Rather, it must reasonably accommodate such communications and must constitute the minimum practicable regulation to accomplish the state or local authority's legitimate purpose. See PRB-1, 101 FCC 2d 952 (1985) for details.)
I would think you can get away with more now with cable being digital and reliance on internet. Back in the day you would have neighbors jumping up and down bitching if they saw a CB antenna on your car. Then you are responsible for all the tv issues on the block.
Try hanging one of these from the peak 'Comet H-422' . You can replace the ends with wire if you need to as done by the 'Last Man Standing' crew as shown here... ruclips.net/video/as5nVgicVxE/видео.html
Rotor is upside down.....
Gismo Lt Bry they work either way as long as one end is fixed. I had the same rotor and I used to work at the shack when I was a teenager
These Q loops do not tune well if it is not out in the open. To much stuff in the attic.
It tunes just fine in his attic.
@@HamRadioConcepts
Hummm, than I got a bad one
It is very HIGH Q so it is VERY tricky to tune, but i have mastered tuning it, I can go from 40 meters to 10 meters and tune every band in between in minutes..takes practice.
I have a MFJ loop and it works well but one of the things he should do is get that metal pipe between the antenna and the rotor out of there. Get a short piece of schedule 40 PVC pipe and a wooden dowl the size of the inside diameter of the pvc and drive that in to it to stiffen it and use it between the rotor and the antenna. Mag loops do not like any metal in the very near field. 73...
I've heard that attics in FL have snakes living in the insulation. True? Or not true? I hope it's not true because the thought is frighteningly creepy!
Braden Glett not true. I live in Vero Beach. 2 meter Diamond in the attic over the garage. No snakes. KB3NG.
I’ve lived in Florida my whole life (36 years) the only time a snake will go in an attic is if it’s looking for food like mice and it’s seen or smelled them in there. So as long as you keep a clean and closed attic with no holes in the soffit and roof you are good. Snakes in Florida like to stay on the ground for the most part.
And they always hear you talking so they know who you are...