Windows Goes ARM... But What About Gaming?
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
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When Microsoft is spying on me using my Windows computer they’re going to be so disappointed and upset with what I do with it
Linux on ARM for gaming works today with FEZ as the CPU translator (this is how it's done today with Asahi Linux on Apple Silicon).
So you translate x86 and x64 to ARM with FEZ and translate windows APIs to Linux with Proton.
Works really well, it's just there aren't many arm devices that people have tried to game on.
A Linux handheld running steamos with this setup is entirely possible - not sure if valve would bring it to market, but someone will eventually.
There needs be a “Sexiest Men Of Gaming” calendar with Rich on the cover before I die.
Gay
@@virtualpilgrim8645 for Rich I’m anything.
@@virtualpilgrim8645 for Rich, I’m anything.
I'm more into twinks, but I'm sure Richard has a nice Richard.
No one can deny the handsomeness of Sid the Sloth.
All that AI stuff is like...
Ahahaha,lol nope.
They hit with the 16gb ram and they had to fumble with all this AI bullshit all over the system and even additional Copilot keyboard key
Nintendo switch is literally an ARM cpu is it not? if so then doesn't that mean developer already make game for ARM cpu. And with the hype surrounding switch 2, there's definitely more game that will be optimize for the ARM architecture. So if switch 2 is also indeed an ARM cpu, then the switch 2 will show us a small metric on how much potential ARM cpu have for gaming. And if it works very well for the switch 2 and developers, there definitely will be a future for ARM gaming PC.
It will cost an Arm and a leg... I'll get my coat.
You need better Intel, because that sick ARM joke might need a MD.
These jokes hARM me.
😮😂
Fast show???
I would have gone with punching out.
Well it is about time M$ Windows goes Arm, but I'll be switching to Linux when they start taking screenshots of my screen.
They can already do anything they want with windows 11. They dont need to take screenshots because AI already analyzes everything that you come across.
@@craciunator99they don’t need to but do they?
Good luck, I tried that days ago (aura sync, pop os, ryzen and nvidia) and it was a nightmare, no software for asus and razer peripherals, OpenRGB couldn't control brightness or blinking speed, only the color and mode. The only thing that worked were fans in Cooler control out of the box. Only games were working perfectly via proton and lutris. Linux is still far far away from being user friendly and perfectly working on any hardware you have, especially gaming HW.
This is not what I want from an OS, I want to just click, install and use without any issues and even without terminal, just like windows and mac. Linux is still not for everyone.
@@sklynexd Hhmm I hear good things about Linux, but I've already switched to Mac OS sometime ago after I stopped using Windows7. I prefer Mac OS and my PS5 for gaming.
My M1 Air alreay runs BG3 at around 30 fps, not super rxciting for this new chip doing the same.
It’s running natively on the Mac, not through a translation layer, so still impressive.
@@rhoderzau you can also play it through emulation with something like crossover and still get 30 fps.
It's exciting because you dont need to buy Apples crap
The thing is, even if the SD X Elite is as fast as an M1, Apple devices are limited to macOS (or W11 ARM on a VM) which is very limited and most games or apps won’t run; the SD X Elite will run W11 ARM and will be able to run a lot of games/apps right now and much more in the future.
And the future SD X Gen 2 Elite will be a great APU with GPU power.
@@michaelandrews4783yes Apple laptops are so trash to this day Intel, ARM and Microsoft are playing catch-up🙄
I bet if Apple had revealed something like "Recall" everyone would have been raving about it.
it's early days still, but it's not out of the realm of possibility for consoles to move to ARM/RISC in the not-too-distant future. That could really drive growth for Windows-on-ARM gaming as a result. Maybe that would even lead to more games being ported to Android.
The X Elite/Plus looking amazing for casual or business use. But they are tiny 170-180mm2 4nm chips with tiny iGPUs. We'd have to wait for the Gen 2 to see if they will make a version with a big iGPU like the M3 Pro/Max or Strix/Strix Halo
Considering the similarity of architecture, they need to create Windows drivers for Adreno Snapdragon Gen 3+ active cooled handhelds
I'd love to see a long-battery life, native ARM Windows handheld, with the X's GPU.
There is X64 support even on systems with no NPU. And Intel Chips have NPUs FYI.
In the Preview build of Windows it works without NPU in short.
Arm chips and SoCs in general with the unified memory will become more and more prevalent in the PC segment. U will be able to build your own PC like u do now for quite some time, however eventually u will only change one large MCM chip with some very fast low latency memory with the SRAM cache similar to the AMD's V-Cache and then u add additional modules of the latest RAM + memory for storage or u will go for holy grail of having single very fast non volatile memory which will serve u both as RAM and as a storage. Modularity on the desktop PC is why it is amazing and attractive so most likely u will see SoC offerings for your motherboards from the well known players Nvidia, Intel, AMD, Qualcomm and probably some more.
I am happy with the recall feature on my business laptop as I deal with a lot of documents that I constantly have to go back to. As long as it has a toggle off for my gaming PC I'm good. Well done MS
Sure depends if your business is okay with that feature, I wouldn't be surprised if most say HELL NO
I hold COMMAND + Space to take a screenshot manually on my iMac.
Arm is catching up fast.
While x6484 are stagnating.
Mobile usage is increasing.
Microsoft should finish windows 9 before they attempt anything else
😂
I started searching for a file using Windows search, the search taking forever. So, still searching, I downloaded Everything, installed it, indexed the disk and found the file minutes before Windows search. Nough said.
Wonder what an ARM system running Linux, Proton and this Prism emulator could mean for SteamOS
why not let it just run steam os, you dont need all that other bs
that would be too many compatibility layers, i think either x86 linux or arm windows are most balanced for being efficient and effective for the most part
prism only works on windows. Linux has supported ARM since the early inspection of ARM, that is 1985. the problem is there very little open source software writen for ARM in linux at least for the every day user.
Adding another translation layer to gaming on arm on linux when you are already translating to x86 windows api calls in ridiculous, a new translation layer would have to be written or furked from proton. so don't expect that happening anytime soon. If the game runs nativelyt on ARM for windows, than it should be mor easier to translate to ARM on linux, don't quote me on this it is just my guess.
@@dzibanart8521No, you're right, an arm windows game being easier to work on arm Linux makes perfect sense
@@dzibanart8521 I mean, as proof of concept as it is, you can run ARM Linux and play Steam games via Proton even today. You just add Box86 or Box64 into the mix. People are experimenting with it on for example RPi for years.
Guys, MS has already had Surface hardware with Qualcomm chips for many years. Sure, limited models and such but it layed the work for these new chips.
Where the first version of 11 only emulated 32bit x86, then they started work on the rest. The first also didn't have native apps and those have been out for a while.
One can say that W11 ARM is now very mature and they've put a lot of work into it. Qualcomm also has had top notch driver support for Android, so one can expect something like that for Windows.
Someone pls get cataferal some hair clips
If the surface can game on par with the ROG ally, that’d be good enough for me honestly
Disabled copilot long ago
According to research I've done only x86 to arm will have processing impact on cpu not the graphics card, so if there are native *arm applications for games like there's native port for baldur's gate 3 on Mac the graphics performance will remain same on arm
It's highly unlikely that any publishers will publish two different code paths to New PC games or recompile old games for arm. The market for arm windows would be even smaller than Linux. So I wouldn't bet on native arm codes and just expect translation layers or emulation.
@@ibrohiem The main additional cost is testing. Modern dev environments can easily build both exes just fine. Granted, if using third party engines, those engines need to also support that and if your engine is old, it may not support building on Arm.
I think just as we have different 32 bit and 64 bit exe for the same game going forward we might have a separate exe for arm, or who knows there might be a translation later to run arm application on x86 based processors which might be more efficient than prism which needs to convert x86 based application to arm
@@user-fi1nv8mf4l Think about it, the main reason why windows pc games works on linux is because of Proton and Wine. Publishers didn't lift a finger to help with those codes and they sure as hell wouldn't waste time and money. Valved paid for Proton because the incentive is for games to work on steam deck. There are forks of Proton from volunteers to get more games working, the key word is voluteers. I don't see publishers going out of their way to get Pc games on arm to run unless there's a big financial incentive.
The issue is Baldurs gate is more cpu intensive than gpu
Only CPU is bottlenecked by the translation layer anything GPU related will work the same. So once we see dGPU support we'll certainly see ARM64 Gaming Laptops. Nvidia and AMD are both going to do ARM64 laptop SOCs because it simply makes sense.
No windows for me. They want to take screenshots of our desktop
This is going to be very interesting indeed. People still want to be able to build their own PC. I wonder how the folks at Qualcomm, Microsoft, AMD, and Nvidia would move forward.
There is a company called Ampere that is already making ARM workstations that can run Linux and Windows, and support external graphics cards. I believe ASRock makes the motherboard for it. So it's kinda already being done, although for a different purpose. It's certainly possible
They want to take even that from us, so that we become mindless zombies they can exploit.
@taylorstock6044 but there is a very few case where you should use that externap GPU, the PCIe 4.0 x16 have a very limited 32GB/s speed, meanwhile even Snapdragon X Elite start with 136GB/s or somewhere there, but Apple already have 400GB/s in their M3 Max laptops (800GB/s in their desktops). So do you think to mix a bigger but slower HDD next to your SSD will increase the speed..? Because replaceable parts are the HDD here (bigger max capacity, but smaller transfer speed), and the integrated things the SSD..
@@TamasKiss-yk4st For workloads where data transfer between the GPU and the CPU are crucial, sure, a system with an integrated GPU is probably best. But right now, we're talking about gaming, and there are very few scenarios where more bandwidth between the GPU and CPU will increase performance. What I was trying to say is that it is possible to have an ARM system with PCI slots and upgradable GPUs. There is no technical or licensing limitation that prevents that. Even with all this data bandwidth there on the M series chips, nobody is selling their custom rig with a 4080 or 4090 to buy a Mac Studio to game.
Gaming? Run an Android fork and you got the most OP Google Play Pass monster machine ;)
You know, calling it 'Prism' after Microsoft was caught being part of the US Government's 'Prism' program is a bold move. But then again, a lot of people probably don't remember the Xbox One days anymore.
My 3 year old Surface Pro X runs just fine with an ARM CPU.
As others have stated, I’ll be switching to Linux. Especially if there’s a desktop (official) version of Steam OS.
Unity3D already has ARM64 support for Windows. And other game engines do as well now.
Looks like the GPU performance is pretty good on the new Snapdragon SoCs - a bit behind the M3 still, but should quite useful for on-the-go gaming on Windows 🤩
Are there any future gaming applications that may use an NPU?
definitely not
In regards to Apple's ARM chips, the CPUs are absolute beasts. The single threaded performance beats out the vast majority of x86 chips except for the absolute latest, absolute top end chips. Even then the Apple chips use far, far less power and generate way, way, way less heat.
The weakness is the GPUs. They aren't terrible, but Apple is very mobile and laptop focused. So they emphasize low power and low heat generation. The M1 GPU is between the PS4 and PS4Pro in terms of raw flops, but the weakness is in terms of heat. In an iPad there is no fan, so it can't run Death Stranding quite as well as a base PS4. This is how the Switch has been able to hang on so long. The Switch's fan provides a lot of thermal headroom.
Also, you don't have to use ARM's GPU's designs (Apple doesn't). There is no reason you couldnt have an ARM CPU and a RTX4090. You would just need the drivers. x86 has nothing to do with GPUs and that doesn't prevent pairing an x86 CPU with any GPU as long as there are drivers so they can communicate.
The m4 beats even the 14900k, was there something even faster single core?
@@bulletpunch9317 I haven't kept up with it. I just know at one point Intel was saying they finally had a chip that could beat one of the M chips if you didn't mind paying $$$$$$ and installing a second A/C unit just for cooling the room the chip is in.
@@TheCrewExpendable i checked theres the 14900ks. The m3 was already very close to the 14900k i guess m4 beats the ks too.
Windows on arm ❤ Snapdragon X Elite 🚀 🚀
What about gaming?
Well, not even Microsoft's own software packages work on the arm chips.
There's a miriad of cases where even their own Office 364 software doesn't run on it.
Office, Edge, Visual Studio, .Net, Windows itself, inbox app etc. ARE ALL PORTED TO ARM. What do you even mean?
I'm also curious about msi overclocking gaming performance with arm processors. There are still users that still overclock there windows devices. I play crysis remastered with can it run crysis mode in every graphics settings with v sync always off and motion blur always off since I never use them. My gaming laptop is the 2022 razer blade 15 with 4k 144 hz display with intel core i9-12900h mobile cpu, 32gb ram, 1 tb ssd, 3080 ti 16gb vram version. With crysis remastered in native 4k only since I only play games in 4k and nothing less than 4k resolution for every graphics settings set to can it run crysis mode , ray tracing always enabled, dlss always off, motion blur always off, v sync always off, ray tracing experimental boost always enabled. Can it run crysis mode in native 4k is my reference and benchmark for 4k gaming. If there was an option for can it run crysis mode in every game in native 4k, I will enable every time to see how every game performs. I treat 4k gaming like watching any movie in theaters in 4k. For example, the gran turismo movie, I treat 4k gaming in the same way.
No thank you, My Minisforum V3 with AMD 8840u outforms them.
Lono reforge gaming is a hypothetical sloth. Let’s see if he plays gta6 since it’ll launch at 30fps 😂
Is this a vision of an arm based xbox handheld
Xbox is DEAD
🤔@@marty8370
there won't be an next xbox
Wouldn't be surprised if Google make their own chips soon (like Apple) and put them in their phones, as well as Chromebooks.
Not sure if you’re joking or not, but they’ve been doing this for years. Google “Google Tensor” for more information.
They make their own server and smart phone chips already.
They already do.
@@nitroxide17
In their Chromebooks?
@@nitroxide17 They don't lol, they use exynos customized by google. In a few years they will use their own ARM chips.
Snapdragon X Elite 🚀 🚀 🚀
Zero interest due to the fact it has Recall Spyware. If anything I would like to see DF talk about Linux gaming more since the features that come along with this makes Windows very unattractive as a platform going forward.
Recall can be disabled any time. You know that right?
@@TheTytan007 Not the point it shouldn't exist in the first place its a privacy nightmare.
@@silentq15it’s just locally on the laptop it won’t be sent to microsoft
Does the combination of Apple ARM and some non-zero slice of Microsoft being ARM actually begin to look attractive to game developers who might produce ARM-only games? How would one then play them on non ARM machines??
If Microsoft fails gamers, Linux-based operating systems may fill in the gap. Valve's Proton has proved that software emulation can work pretty well for us on the Steam Deck, and there are open source efforts similar to Prism/Rosetta for Linux. So if Windows stops working on DIY PCs, Linux may be our solution.
Linux failed. No one is installing it on their gaming rig
@@LexFilm The many satisfied Steam Deck gamers have entered the room.
@@EmblemParade it's not a gaming rig it's a little girl's handheld
@@LexFilm Little girls are apparently 10 times more mature than you.
Wrong I'm very mature for a 13 year old and my gaming rig is better than yours because I use WINDOWS 11
MS wants to plugin AI in every damn thing. And I hate it.
I am one step away from switching to Linux. And it is good Nvidia gpu support.
Windows SpyWare woohoo
My 8gb Oneplus 9 plays all the ReRemakes at 30fps, GTA V hits 60+ sometimes, all the Fallout games (3/NV/4), Oblivion\Skyrim, Gothic 1\2, Kerbal Space Program all smooth to the point where you dont need to check fps (I do run a magisk module that underclocks my Snapdragon 888). As far as settings its all about 720p medium, ReRemakes need low but still 720p looks real good.
How do you do that?
@@Fusion05 with winlator, i had a snapdragon 8 gen 2 in a lenovo yoga y700, everithing runs fine, not cyberpunk or more demnading games, but the translators box64 and wine just works fine on android...
Cool t-shirt
Snapdragon X ❤❤
Gaming belongs to desktop
This news provides additional information to better understand the Xbox’s recent challenges.
Microsoft hasn't pioneering market-setting products; instead, they tend to follow trends and acquire existing players to enter the market.
This recent decision to focus on ARM is just another failed attempt, that might backfire. ARM technology will grow significantly, removing the fears to develop even more specially on AAA games that will benefiting their competitors inadvertently. I mean Nvidia and Apple already got a market and this will only help them, but even players like Nintendo from gaming industry can potentially benefits from this.
Lots of nonsensical words you have strung together there that have no meaning as a whole
Nvidia just makes gpus, not OS, and their GPUs only work on Windows
Apple will never be a competitor in gaming because Microsoft owns the software end of gaming via directX and gaming studios and Nvidia owns the hardware end both of which Apple cannot use (and both Microsoft and Nvidia are industry leaders by a large margin in both of those fields)
Microsoft will inevitably steal whatever little userbase Apple was able to gather since M1 (nobody uses Apple products outside of USA in computing world)
@@goochipoochieapple can turn tosteam and then jts game over for all the bs you just listed
"This recent decision to focus on ARM is just another failed attempt"
"ARM technology will grow significantly"
Choose one
AI is still way overhyped
5:32 - I know literally a dozen people who are migrating from 10 straight to Linux over this. A couple more already have from Windows to MacOS and the fruit ecosystem. There's no talking them out of it either; I tried playing devil's advocate and failed. Keep in mind I only know about 20 that are tech literate.
EDIT: I'm also seeing similar comments from enthusiasts on hardware websites as well.
I don’t know anything about computers. What is the fruit ecosystem? It just sounds funny
I'm waiting to see if all my emulators work on the new consumer Surface Pro 👀
imagine complaining about a feature you can turn off
This kinda reminds the kinect fiasco on xbox, when they focus their presentation in dumb gimmicks that the majority of people do not care, and everyone was wondering what about the games? Same here they are laser focus once again in a gimmick but what about apps? what about performance of apps through the compatibility layer? the only thing good they did was to reveal adobe support on arm.
I do not have a cristal ball but I am waiting for reviews of independent media to see if this is going to be a fiasco or not
When you get your Cristal ball, invite me over to drink some of the champagne inside
The gimmick is their focus on AI rubbish. Arm should bring benefits to energy efficiency and performance in time. Especially if more devs gradually provide native Arm support
@@dr-doctor-1992 devs do not care about supporting a new platform unless they have incentives to do so, if initial reception of windows arm flops they won't care. Apple and steam knew that and they gave the initial support themselves with their devices. The track record of microsoft is bad with this things, but maybe they learned the lesson, will see.
Yes you're correct. I was more talking about the value of Windows on Arm which I see is more useful than Kinect was. Not a gimmick.
@@dr-doctor-1992 Sorry, fair enough. You are right arm has a tangible benefit, if I have to guess arm will at least partially successful in the laptop market.
MS always lagging behind Apple 😂
and Apple will always be the unfriendly gaming platform that throws sticks under game developers' feet with their reliance on proprietary stuff that no one uses (like Metal)
no there not
@@kevin123kevin1 yes they are lmao
Whew! After IGN purchased DF, I really thought that I'd see this video end with, "7.8 - Too much ARM".😅
DF is standalone company.
@@sklynexdwhere they standing
I’ll never ever understand why people try to play AAA type games on laptops and tablets etc. like bro get a handheld or proper gaming pc. It doesn’t make any mf sense.
If you can play on handheld, why can't you play on a laptop? Z1 extreme is just a 7840u, if you already need to carry a laptop with you, why carry a handheld instead of gamepad?
Yes handhelds have unique use cases, like playing in plane, but in most situations laptop with gamepad will be a least as good, or even better, due to larger screen.
@@ninele7 because it’s stupid. You need a mouse and/or controller which is a massive L. Completely pointless. Waste of time.
@@godnamedtay If I have to carry laptop because of work or other reasons, I now not only need a controller but a whole handheld that is 3 times size of the controller.
You know that you can't solve all of the tasks that you do on a laptops with a handheld. But laptop with gamepad can replace handheld almost always. I have a steam deck, I know what I am talking about.
If you don't have a use case for a laptop, then you are free to buy a handheld, but lots of people need to carry a laptop around and if you already have it, why not game on it lot's of games works very well on laptops.
Yes if money isn't an issue.
@@ninele7 imo ur an idiot if u do serious gaming on a “work” oriented laptop. Again, this makes no sense. Carry a handheld. Or wait until u get home. Not that complicated.