What's the biggest failure any of your characters have ever experienced in a game of Dungeons and Dragons? How did it change the story? Pre-order *Van Richten’s Guide to Ravenloft* now on D&D Beyond: dndbeyond.link/vrf Pre-order *Candlekeep Mysteries* now on D&D Beyond: dndbeyond.link/ckf
Around the 10:00 mark, they're talking about a concept of "Yes, But...". When we first learn D&D, we're taught that all skill checks are binary. Either you do the thing and succeed or you don't do the thing and succeed. But Life isn't like that. Other roleplaying systems adds a third option of "You succeed at doing the thing, but at a cost". (The "Yes, but" option.) You didn't just squeak by in doing whatever you were trying to do. You did it, but it was messy, clumsy, noisy, whatever. You overcame what you needed to, but it kicked off something else. Maybe that lock you were trying to unlock did unlock, but you broke your thieves tools in the lock? Or in the process of unlocking the door, you dump your tools all over the floor creating a ruckus. Did it alert someone? Are they coming to check? Do the guards now know there's someone breaking in and are now on high alert making stealth rolls much harder? If you're going to use it, here is how I suggest using it: 1. Only offer it for skill checks, but only those where there are stakes at risk and you want to play with the tension of the moment. Don't use it for low stakes rolls, like trying to charm the barkeep's daughter or convince a merchant that rusty dagger is worth more than he's offering. 2. Offer it as a choice at time of play to the group. Even if you have something cool planned, let the table decide if they're going to accept outright failure, or they succeed, but now there's a new thing to worry about. 3. Only offer it for a few points. If the DC check is 15, maybe offer it for rolls between 12 and 14. If the DC is 10, limit it to 8 and 9. 4. Don't use it for easy DC checks. Anything below a five should be a succeed or fail. If you're going to offer a "Yes, but..." on a DC of five or less, you might as well tell the party they just did the thing they set out to do. 5. Don't use it for attack or damage rolls, or limit it's use in combat if you're playing with hard core rulesets that include things like durability. A lot of spells, like Sleep and Fireball, have built in "Yes, but..." conditions (like Area of Effects that catch both enemy and ally alike). And, I don't think you want to be telling the paladin or barbarian that yes, their sword did land a blow, but the tip broke off reducing the damage future strikes can do. 6. Let the situation dictate how immediate the "but..." part of the roll is. For instance, if the party is trying to sneak into a castle, let the "but..." part of the result be something that is now looming over the party that gives the party something to imagine and dread, but at the same time plan for. If the party's being chased through the streets of the city by the night watch, let the penalty be something more immediate that they have to deal with, like having the room the players just ducked into to hide from the night watch be a barracks in the watch tower. Sure, they just gave their pursuers the slip, but now they're hiding in a room full of sleeping guards.
Oh, what a fun topic and video! Sure, success is fun and makes you feel awesome, but failure can lead to such interesting twists. There is a reason we're playing this game and rolling dice as opposed to sitting alone in our rooms writing a novel. I'm a trickery cleric. The party were trying to cross a rickety old rope bridge. I let everyone go ahead of me, one at a time, and I gave them Guidance as they crossed the bridge. I was last, cast Guidance on myself, and rolled a nat 1 (for a total of something like 5 after my dex check plus d4). Rather than have me plummet to my death, the DM decided to have me topple but get my foot caught in one of the old planks of wood so I was dangling, but alive. I will never forget the irony of helping my party all make it over safely and then almost falling to my death.
Haven’t finished the video yet, but I can’t agree with this more! Failure should be just as fun if not more fun than success! Keep up the good work guys!
Great ideas. Though there is an important balancing act. You talk about the importance of failure so that success is not inevitable. Then you talk at great length about how failure in a small goal should essentially lead to success in the larger goals as well. This feels like a contradiction. Failure should be possible. Total failure. Not just through TPK. You should be able to screw up an adventure so badly that a new one needs to be started as well.
there is a neat story about a paladin who crit failed his combat roles, but still managed to kill the orc warlord he was fighting with the crit fails he rolled thats pretty amusing :) failure is not the worst thing
I really liked the previous host and community manager, and Ill admit i was skeptical if the new blood. And i know Joe keeps saying this is just temporary... but this video and the latest abt memorable NPC were actually really really great. Really important advice on foundational DMing concepts and skills. Stuff even veteran DMs could work on. especially the constant examples and spitballing ideas. I find myself playing along and feeling really inspired! Maybe this should be more than temporary?
This approach works really well with the fantasy flight RPG dice system that's used in the Star Wars game and Genesys. Where you have success and failure dice pools with other good or bad outcomes available. You could succeed a check but have something minorly bad happen or fail a check, but get a minor win.
One time my character roll a 1 to play a bagpipe and terrorized the the town and nearby wildlife. P.S. I was fighter with no Cha. or proficiency in musical instruments.
biggest failure? not sure. None of mine were particularly funny though. 1e had my first character, a 1st level halfling with three other level 1s facing six hill giants crashing our campsite a half hour into the campaign. tried to hide. got squished. 2e had Harold Half-ogre, a Gentle Giant type, break a rope bridge and unable to pull himself to safety. failure of players in my campaigns were usually the result of a "what the heck were you thinking?" moment like trying to swim through black pudding.
I feel like they're gone a bit mad with the amount of new books coming out, like literally as soon as one comes out they're hyping the next one. They're currently going on about two books, neither of which are out yet. I'm just slightly concerned that they're headed towards oversaturation.
Failure is important but it will never feel good at least for me when I fail it's not fun,I want to be cool that's why I don't like having negative and will do everything in my power to not have pass fuging rolls
Plus failing over and over from a player perspective is frustrating more then fun,if I spend three sessions failing and only failing it's no longer funny its no longer fun,it's just annoying
Get rid of the 1:45 of other stuff in the beginning of videos like this...love you guys, but that just isn't fun, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Shorten ads and introductions to the 1 minute mark, maximum.
I want to join this d&d community but those d&d games, characters, books are very expensive.......lower your prices if you want to expand your community
@@wilhelmscream6919 yeah I have those but the starter set, dm screen, essential kit, figurines, etc those are expensive..... if you are an Indian you know that
@@Makima0883 But none of that stuff is required to play the game :D Explore the scene, follow some content creators- endless sources of inspiration and possibly new ways of looking at stuff that You do already have access to, to get more use out of it.
What's the biggest failure any of your characters have ever experienced in a game of Dungeons and Dragons? How did it change the story?
Pre-order *Van Richten’s Guide to Ravenloft* now on D&D Beyond: dndbeyond.link/vrf
Pre-order *Candlekeep Mysteries* now on D&D Beyond: dndbeyond.link/ckf
The best thing about failure is that it allows characters to shine that may not have a chance to.
Around the 10:00 mark, they're talking about a concept of "Yes, But...". When we first learn D&D, we're taught that all skill checks are binary. Either you do the thing and succeed or you don't do the thing and succeed. But Life isn't like that. Other roleplaying systems adds a third option of "You succeed at doing the thing, but at a cost". (The "Yes, but" option.) You didn't just squeak by in doing whatever you were trying to do. You did it, but it was messy, clumsy, noisy, whatever. You overcame what you needed to, but it kicked off something else. Maybe that lock you were trying to unlock did unlock, but you broke your thieves tools in the lock? Or in the process of unlocking the door, you dump your tools all over the floor creating a ruckus. Did it alert someone? Are they coming to check? Do the guards now know there's someone breaking in and are now on high alert making stealth rolls much harder?
If you're going to use it, here is how I suggest using it:
1. Only offer it for skill checks, but only those where there are stakes at risk and you want to play with the tension of the moment. Don't use it for low stakes rolls, like trying to charm the barkeep's daughter or convince a merchant that rusty dagger is worth more than he's offering.
2. Offer it as a choice at time of play to the group. Even if you have something cool planned, let the table decide if they're going to accept outright failure, or they succeed, but now there's a new thing to worry about.
3. Only offer it for a few points. If the DC check is 15, maybe offer it for rolls between 12 and 14. If the DC is 10, limit it to 8 and 9.
4. Don't use it for easy DC checks. Anything below a five should be a succeed or fail. If you're going to offer a "Yes, but..." on a DC of five or less, you might as well tell the party they just did the thing they set out to do.
5. Don't use it for attack or damage rolls, or limit it's use in combat if you're playing with hard core rulesets that include things like durability. A lot of spells, like Sleep and Fireball, have built in "Yes, but..." conditions (like Area of Effects that catch both enemy and ally alike). And, I don't think you want to be telling the paladin or barbarian that yes, their sword did land a blow, but the tip broke off reducing the damage future strikes can do.
6. Let the situation dictate how immediate the "but..." part of the roll is. For instance, if the party is trying to sneak into a castle, let the "but..." part of the result be something that is now looming over the party that gives the party something to imagine and dread, but at the same time plan for. If the party's being chased through the streets of the city by the night watch, let the penalty be something more immediate that they have to deal with, like having the room the players just ducked into to hide from the night watch be a barracks in the watch tower. Sure, they just gave their pursuers the slip, but now they're hiding in a room full of sleeping guards.
Mellie & Amy might just be the cutest beans in all of the land, and I'm here for it😭💕
Oh, what a fun topic and video! Sure, success is fun and makes you feel awesome, but failure can lead to such interesting twists. There is a reason we're playing this game and rolling dice as opposed to sitting alone in our rooms writing a novel. I'm a trickery cleric. The party were trying to cross a rickety old rope bridge. I let everyone go ahead of me, one at a time, and I gave them Guidance as they crossed the bridge. I was last, cast Guidance on myself, and rolled a nat 1 (for a total of something like 5 after my dex check plus d4). Rather than have me plummet to my death, the DM decided to have me topple but get my foot caught in one of the old planks of wood so I was dangling, but alive. I will never forget the irony of helping my party all make it over safely and then almost falling to my death.
Haven’t finished the video yet, but I can’t agree with this more! Failure should be just as fun if not more fun than success! Keep up the good work guys!
I feel like a lot of this can be summarized with “take some improv classes”.
Because everyone's got fat stacks or even an improv class in their area. Lol
Great ideas. Though there is an important balancing act. You talk about the importance of failure so that success is not inevitable. Then you talk at great length about how failure in a small goal should essentially lead to success in the larger goals as well. This feels like a contradiction.
Failure should be possible. Total failure. Not just through TPK. You should be able to screw up an adventure so badly that a new one needs to be started as well.
Some of my best and most memorable moments in D&D have come from a failed check, just roll with it and see where the dice lead you :D
Failure can sometimes bring fun. You never seen a wizard being decapitated TWICE by a displacer cats.
there is a neat story about a paladin who crit failed his combat roles, but still managed to kill the orc warlord he was fighting with the crit fails he rolled thats pretty amusing :) failure is not the worst thing
I really liked the previous host and community manager, and Ill admit i was skeptical if the new blood. And i know Joe keeps saying this is just temporary...
but this video and the latest abt memorable NPC were actually really really great. Really important advice on foundational DMing concepts and skills. Stuff even veteran DMs could work on.
especially the constant examples and spitballing ideas. I find myself playing along and feeling really inspired!
Maybe this should be more than temporary?
This is a subject I can get right behind. Needs repeating often. Failure is exciting!
This approach works really well with the fantasy flight RPG dice system that's used in the Star Wars game and Genesys. Where you have success and failure dice pools with other good or bad outcomes available. You could succeed a check but have something minorly bad happen or fail a check, but get a minor win.
Because it makes the story way more interesting when you fail and need to scramble for victory.
Woah was not expecting Joe Starr. Hope to see him more. He was a fun take on this. This video was really fun.
He's their new media face (until they find someone better).
@@PaulGuy You'll find that the phrasing is that he's got the job until *he* finds someone better.
One time my character roll a 1 to play a bagpipe and terrorized the the town and nearby wildlife.
P.S. I was fighter with no Cha. or proficiency in musical instruments.
Always Love Love Love your shows. Thank you!
Thanks for watching, Jim!
biggest failure? not sure. None of mine were particularly funny though. 1e had my first character, a 1st level halfling with three other level 1s facing six hill giants crashing our campsite a half hour into the campaign. tried to hide. got squished. 2e had Harold Half-ogre, a Gentle Giant type, break a rope bridge and unable to pull himself to safety. failure of players in my campaigns were usually the result of a "what the heck were you thinking?" moment like trying to swim through black pudding.
Man I really enjoy your face lol your doing a wicked job. Plz stick around
Finally... Somewhere where my luck can succeed. Lol
Failures are perfectly fine but a failure to communicate isn't.
I feel like they're gone a bit mad with the amount of new books coming out, like literally as soon as one comes out they're hyping the next one. They're currently going on about two books, neither of which are out yet. I'm just slightly concerned that they're headed towards oversaturation.
Failure is important but it will never feel good at least for me when I fail it's not fun,I want to be cool that's why I don't like having negative and will do everything in my power to not have pass fuging rolls
Plus failing over and over from a player perspective is frustrating more then fun,if I spend three sessions failing and only failing it's no longer funny its no longer fun,it's just annoying
I'm playing 2E right now. Failure is NOT encouraged lol. Failure = death.
I actively encourage you to not make viewers wait over 2 minutes to start the conversation. Why?
Get rid of the 1:45 of other stuff in the beginning of videos like this...love you guys, but that just isn't fun, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Shorten ads and introductions to the 1 minute mark, maximum.
I want to join this d&d community but those d&d games, characters, books are very expensive.......lower your prices if you want to expand your community
The Basic rules, plus a few other bits have been released for free on D&D Beyond.
@@wilhelmscream6919 yeah I have those but the starter set, dm screen, essential kit, figurines, etc those are expensive..... if you are an Indian you know that
@@Makima0883 But none of that stuff is required to play the game :D Explore the scene, follow some content creators- endless sources of inspiration and possibly new ways of looking at stuff that You do already have access to, to get more use out of it.
@@wilhelmscream6919 can you plz suggest some of those things you mentioned....I mean by sharing the links
@@Makima0883 The D&D Beyond Discord is a great place to start for meeting some cool folks and finding a game to jump into to try it out!