Great review, Walter! I really hope that PFJ and EVgo have plans for expansion of these sites as they start to see increased traffic. Unfortunately, they will suffer a bit from the chicken and egg paradox where a larger number of stalls is, in and of itself, a draw that attracts more traffic. Essentially, had they started with 8 stalls and 1 MW of power as a baseline site design, they'd likely more than double their current site traffic.
I too question their uniform stall count choice. I am thinking they must of had data to go that direction with so maybe over time there is reasoning we are unaware of as of yet. However, as it currently stands I agree with you. Perhaps GM/EVgo will select a location or two for their new upcoming "Flagship" locations.
@@thenetworkarchitectchannel If they do, I think California would be the right choice to plus size. I sometimes think EVgo is a little too shrewd for their own good, and they seem to want to see >50% usage rates before expanding a site. That might have worked in California and Texas when they were the only public CPO covering those corridors and regions, but the market has shifted. EV consumers are demanding higher site concentrations before they have enough confidence to prioritize a stop. And based on my math, a CPO simply can't achieve reasonable ROI without at least 6 to 8 active stalls that are all capable of outputting 150-200 kW concurrently.
@@newscoulomb3705 You have command of a perspective which has proven to be accurate more times than I can count from your near unrivaled yrs observing trends and research. I appreciate you sharing here and I am confident the status quo path to viability is as you are describing.
It's not uncommon to see plugshare comments about PFJ stations being crowded with a queue. A single bad cable or card reader can mess things up quickly.
@@anthonyc8499 Yes. I definitely feel like one of the major issues with current charging site designs is that they assume 100% uptime and zero derated charging sessions (car or charger). By comparison, gas stations tend to be overbuilt to the point that even a couple of down pumps and a squatter or two doesn't affect the typical site traffic. On busy days, they'll yell at squatters over the PA, and they tend to get pumps fixed pretty quick. But still, the typical gas station is designed with those outages in mind.
I believe that to have been a coincidence unrelated to my call, but I agree, they were aware and already in process to address the issue, which was encouraging to me as well. Thx for watching.
All these site reviews get a thumbs up from me! Hey, do you need any updated video from the Ionna site in Apex? I'm thinking of going out there tomorrow, it's about 15 minutes down the road from my house.
Thanks ago Walter! PFJ is just doing awesome. I’m so glad you’re doing these reviews and giving them the attention from EV drivers needed. Honestly, it never ever occurred to me to stop at a “truck stop”. And now I simply LOVE the PFJ option. Also, I dunno about this “novelty” scoring. I’m trying to charge my car. That said, I bet you anything there as a gift shop inside that FlyingJ. Go Dawgs hats and mugs for sure! I’m just saying, 39 out of 50 seems LOW for such a perfect installation!
Thx for watching. The novelty score reflects something in the area that is a point of interest that people would want to travel to, making the route the station is servicing of more value to people going to that location. No such location exists around here, so it looses the point. For instance, if a station is near a state park or something like that, it gets the point.
To the point of how many stalls are required, it depends on the expected traffic at the station. 4 is enough for very low traffic. Higher traffic requires 8, 12, 20, 40, or more stalls. The formula to determine the required number depends on how offen "blocking" can be accepted and the traffic distribution. It was developed by Anger Erlang, and has been used by the telephone industry for over 100 years.
Walter, I’m somewhat surprised you don’t mention that a 500 KVA transformer supplying to 350 kW stations is quite underpowered. One could’ve hoped that they at least put in a 750 KVA to keep those stations near nameplate ratings or 1000 kVA. I do love the convenience to the freeway and the well stocked convenience store. I hope they can eventually reopen some kind of a dining facility.
Btw, I had the same thought u did. When content creating I find it near impossible to comprehensively cover all thoughts I have. Give it a shot sometime. You will see what I mean. Thx 4 watching
There have been a few PFJ sites that have closed the restaurant. I have to assume the franchisee could not maintain enough of a profit to keep the site open. I suspect a sit-down restaurant will do well with the increased dwell of EV customers. Faster charging will impact this long term, but then the model reverts to the current state. I still think some EV drivers will welcome an option that allows a longer charge. Related, I think a slower options at places like IHOP or Wendys could make a difference in traffic there without the higher cost of the faster options. Effectively, the site owner should provide a charger that is optimized for the desired on-site time.
@@YeOldeTraveller - 50 or 62 kw Chargepoint chargers likely cost similar to the 150 to 350 kw units, so not much savings if those are deployed. If cars could charge at 19kw L2, that would help a lot at sit down restaurants, and cost a lot less than the DC chargers. But the car OEMs need to align on the max L2 charging speed for it to work.
@@dennislyon5412 I don't see OEMs increasing the speed of the on-board charger. Tesla stopped offering the dual-charger option a few years ago. I suspect the expansion of DCFC removes the benefit for most customers. (The exception will be vehicles with large packs.) I suspect one can deploy multiple dispensers from the same charger installation if the top speed is capped. This could reduce demand charges, but I could see a benefit to having more posts. More posts for a given transformer size could also help with sourcing, or at least cost if one is planning for a longer dwell (Walmart, Meijer, or Target)
I never saw the lack of canopies as being discriminatory against EV drivers. Rather I understood it as a financial decision. You would not see canopies over gasoline pumps either except for that it is required as part of their fire suppression regulations. The canopies contain the fire alarm and sprinkler systems. Prior to these regulations, you would usually see gas stations not have canopies as you might see in some of the older stations around town
I have sadly looked at the need to sprint from under a gas pump canopy to a TesSC station exposed during a driving rain storm at a Buc-ee's. Several other antidotal examples as well from my own history. It is also mentioned about equipment reliability improving with the addition of a canopy. Thank you for watching and taking the time to share your view.
Canopies would be nice, but the single biggest selling point to PFJ locations are the bathrooms. They’re plentiful, clean, and easy to find. No need to ask the cashier for permission or directions. Secondly, there’s a ton of food/snacks/refreshments on offer. I’m so bummed I never knew about truck stops being available to regular travelers until recently!
@@thenetworkarchitectchannel Yeah, I saw that tray of scrambled eggs, too. It makes me feel extra sorry for those folks who drove the "I-90 Surge." They should have prioritized the PFJ stations.
350 kW right off the interstate at a large convenience store under a canopy with trash cans, free WiFi, and windshield squeegee I’ll choose all day long over any TesSC. Not even close
Geez, Walter, you're really on a roll. Literally! And you've whet my appetite with that pizza. Too bad the electrician wouldn't get the units working before you had to leave. Well… next time you're driving through there!
Walter, I love you and I hate you. I love watching your information about chargers. It really is a “thank you for your service” kind of thing. But my freaking God in heaven holy be thy name, the weight that I just gained from that pizza first scene, scene one, cut one…pun works! pizza oh my God it looks so yummy. I actually paused your RUclips video at 15 seconds in, just so I could reach out. And I am going to get an incredible Pepe’s New Haven, Connecticut pizza, bacon and onion and so yummy and I will not be able to get off the couch for the rest of this Sunday afternoon, I hope you’re happy. My veins are constricting and it’s directly related in proportion to the number of Walter videos that I search out and watch.
Had IHOP been open, I would of made a bee-line for the blueberry pancakes and then where would you of been, so "You're Welcome" ;-) I find the food fare in PFJ to be as expected and when their is an attached sit down, it is above par. A big boost to these stations being selected, IMHO by drivers. Thx for watching. Enjoy your weekend.
I love the fact that so many of these are having sit down restaurants and if you had done the blueberry pancake with the yummy blueberry syrup, I would’ve laughed until my tummy hurt!!!!! Great review by the way and for some reason, I haven’t been paying attention, but I thought all the pilot flyingJ‘s were 180 KW and that’s just not fast enough for my 350 KW 800 V EGMP platform. Although it’s better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick - as my grandmother would say. My skin is almost crawling , waiting for my trip around the perimeter of the lower 48 and through Canada on the northern side of that trip. But I need Tesla and an adapter. I don’t care where I am or what I am doing. I’m gonna stop at that $.35 pilot flying j in the center of Michigan in grand point Michigan or whatever the heck and I am gonna have blueberry pancakes with blueberry yummy syrup and I am going to send you a picture !!!!!! I don’t think it’s $.35 anymore because I think you’ve made it clear that the lowest pricing is in the 40s somewhere….. The problem is I’m 63 and retired and I think I need my nap !!!!! Enjoy the rest of your Sunday
Great review, Walter! I really hope that PFJ and EVgo have plans for expansion of these sites as they start to see increased traffic. Unfortunately, they will suffer a bit from the chicken and egg paradox where a larger number of stalls is, in and of itself, a draw that attracts more traffic. Essentially, had they started with 8 stalls and 1 MW of power as a baseline site design, they'd likely more than double their current site traffic.
I too question their uniform stall count choice. I am thinking they must of had data to go that direction with so maybe over time there is reasoning we are unaware of as of yet. However, as it currently stands I agree with you. Perhaps GM/EVgo will select a location or two for their new upcoming "Flagship" locations.
@@thenetworkarchitectchannel If they do, I think California would be the right choice to plus size. I sometimes think EVgo is a little too shrewd for their own good, and they seem to want to see >50% usage rates before expanding a site. That might have worked in California and Texas when they were the only public CPO covering those corridors and regions, but the market has shifted.
EV consumers are demanding higher site concentrations before they have enough confidence to prioritize a stop. And based on my math, a CPO simply can't achieve reasonable ROI without at least 6 to 8 active stalls that are all capable of outputting 150-200 kW concurrently.
@@newscoulomb3705 You have command of a perspective which has proven to be accurate more times than I can count from your near unrivaled yrs observing trends and research. I appreciate you sharing here and I am confident the status quo path to viability is as you are describing.
It's not uncommon to see plugshare comments about PFJ stations being crowded with a queue. A single bad cable or card reader can mess things up quickly.
@@anthonyc8499 Yes. I definitely feel like one of the major issues with current charging site designs is that they assume 100% uptime and zero derated charging sessions (car or charger). By comparison, gas stations tend to be overbuilt to the point that even a couple of down pumps and a squatter or two doesn't affect the typical site traffic. On busy days, they'll yell at squatters over the PA, and they tend to get pumps fixed pretty quick. But still, the typical gas station is designed with those outages in mind.
Nice setup. Also good to see the maintenance response being fairly quick.
I believe that to have been a coincidence unrelated to my call, but I agree, they were aware and already in process to address the issue, which was encouraging to me as well. Thx for watching.
All these site reviews get a thumbs up from me! Hey, do you need any updated video from the Ionna site in Apex? I'm thinking of going out there tomorrow, it's about 15 minutes down the road from my house.
Glad u enjoy & sure. Love seeing the progress. Thx!
Thanks ago Walter! PFJ is just doing awesome. I’m so glad you’re doing these reviews and giving them the attention from EV drivers needed. Honestly, it never ever occurred to me to stop at a “truck stop”. And now I simply LOVE the PFJ option.
Also, I dunno about this “novelty” scoring. I’m trying to charge my car. That said, I bet you anything there as a gift shop inside that FlyingJ. Go Dawgs hats and mugs for sure! I’m just saying, 39 out of 50 seems LOW for such a perfect installation!
Thx for watching. The novelty score reflects something in the area that is a point of interest that people would want to travel to, making the route the station is servicing of more value to people going to that location. No such location exists around here, so it looses the point. For instance, if a station is near a state park or something like that, it gets the point.
Walter I am loving all the videos that you're putting out. Thanks for all the hard work.
Glad you like them!
To the point of how many stalls are required, it depends on the expected traffic at the station. 4 is enough for very low traffic. Higher traffic requires 8, 12, 20, 40, or more stalls. The formula to determine the required number depends on how offen "blocking" can be accepted and the traffic distribution. It was developed by Anger Erlang, and has been used by the telephone industry for over 100 years.
ERLANG! As a long in tech guy who spent a long stint in VoIP, familiar. Didn’t know it could be applied to charging stations too. Thx for sharing. 😎
Great Review! I had my most satisfying DCFC experience at the PFJ in Smithton PA. .
Glad you enjoyed it!
Nice review. Walter really gets around and provides EV drivers with useful info.
There need to be more stations!!!! Why does Tesla install 40+ stalls and EVgo puts in four? This is insanity in 2024.
Great question & not sure. Quick clarification. EVgo did not make this decision. PFJ owns these through the EVgo Extend program. Thx 4 watching
Walter, I’m somewhat surprised you don’t mention that a 500 KVA transformer supplying to 350 kW stations is quite underpowered. One could’ve hoped that they at least put in a 750 KVA to keep those stations near nameplate ratings or 1000 kVA.
I do love the convenience to the freeway and the well stocked convenience store. I hope they can eventually reopen some kind of a dining facility.
Correct. The site is over subscribed in nameplate. I do not dispute.
Btw, I had the same thought u did. When content creating I find it near impossible to comprehensively cover all thoughts I have. Give it a shot sometime. You will see what I mean. Thx 4 watching
@@thenetworkarchitectchannel thanks for the review Walter. I am still excited to have more infrastructure!
That’s how the ev station needs to be done
It is a sweet spot. I enjoyed making the video. Thx for watching.
Nice that the convenience store took up the hot food opportunity that Ihop left behind. Hopefully a sit down restaurant comes along to fill the void.
I hope so too!
There have been a few PFJ sites that have closed the restaurant. I have to assume the franchisee could not maintain enough of a profit to keep the site open. I suspect a sit-down restaurant will do well with the increased dwell of EV customers. Faster charging will impact this long term, but then the model reverts to the current state. I still think some EV drivers will welcome an option that allows a longer charge.
Related, I think a slower options at places like IHOP or Wendys could make a difference in traffic there without the higher cost of the faster options. Effectively, the site owner should provide a charger that is optimized for the desired on-site time.
@@YeOldeTraveller - 50 or 62 kw Chargepoint chargers likely cost similar to the 150 to 350 kw units, so not much savings if those are deployed. If cars could charge at 19kw L2, that would help a lot at sit down restaurants, and cost a lot less than the DC chargers. But the car OEMs need to align on the max L2 charging speed for it to work.
@@dennislyon5412
I don't see OEMs increasing the speed of the on-board charger. Tesla stopped offering the dual-charger option a few years ago. I suspect the expansion of DCFC removes the benefit for most customers. (The exception will be vehicles with large packs.)
I suspect one can deploy multiple dispensers from the same charger installation if the top speed is capped. This could reduce demand charges, but I could see a benefit to having more posts. More posts for a given transformer size could also help with sourcing, or at least cost if one is planning for a longer dwell (Walmart, Meijer, or Target)
So I've just learned that the AFDC uses UTC. So it looks like PFJ showed up new sites for Tye TX and Remington IN.
thx! will check it out. Didn't know that.
I never saw the lack of canopies as being discriminatory against EV drivers. Rather I understood it as a financial decision. You would not see canopies over gasoline pumps either except for that it is required as part of their fire suppression regulations. The canopies contain the fire alarm and sprinkler systems. Prior to these regulations, you would usually see gas stations not have canopies as you might see in some of the older stations around town
I have sadly looked at the need to sprint from under a gas pump canopy to a TesSC station exposed during a driving rain storm at a Buc-ee's. Several other antidotal examples as well from my own history. It is also mentioned about equipment reliability improving with the addition of a canopy. Thank you for watching and taking the time to share your view.
Canopies would be nice, but the single biggest selling point to PFJ locations are the bathrooms. They’re plentiful, clean, and easy to find. No need to ask the cashier for permission or directions. Secondly, there’s a ton of food/snacks/refreshments on offer. I’m so bummed I never knew about truck stops being available to regular travelers until recently!
Thanks, Walter! So how would you rank the pizza?
I have become fond of their Bfast offering. It has both sausage & bacon, cause Why Not? Genius.
@@thenetworkarchitectchannel Yeah, I saw that tray of scrambled eggs, too. It makes me feel extra sorry for those folks who drove the "I-90 Surge." They should have prioritized the PFJ stations.
EVgo needs to be renamed EVNogo.
350 kW right off the interstate at a large convenience store under a canopy with trash cans, free WiFi, and windshield squeegee I’ll choose all day long over any TesSC. Not even close
Geez, Walter, you're really on a roll. Literally! And you've whet my appetite with that pizza. Too bad the electrician wouldn't get the units working before you had to leave. Well… next time you're driving through there!
Site is off to a great start
I wonder if the tech was dispatched before or after Walter called?
b4 was my understanding from speaking to him. I'm just simple GenPop. He had work orders from up on high issued the night before.
@ that’s awesome that they were so quick on the reaction. EA would likely still be clueless or have an open work order.
Walter, I love you and I hate you.
I love watching your information about chargers. It really is a “thank you for your service” kind of thing.
But my freaking God in heaven holy be thy name, the weight that I just gained from that pizza first scene, scene one, cut one…pun works! pizza oh my God it looks so yummy. I actually paused your RUclips video at 15 seconds in, just so I could reach out.
And I am going to get an incredible Pepe’s New Haven, Connecticut pizza, bacon and onion and so yummy and I will not be able to get off the couch for the rest of this Sunday afternoon, I hope you’re happy. My veins are constricting and it’s directly related in proportion to the number of Walter videos that I search out and watch.
Had IHOP been open, I would of made a bee-line for the blueberry pancakes and then where would you of been, so "You're Welcome" ;-) I find the food fare in PFJ to be as expected and when their is an attached sit down, it is above par. A big boost to these stations being selected, IMHO by drivers. Thx for watching. Enjoy your weekend.
I love the fact that so many of these are having sit down restaurants and if you had done the blueberry pancake with the yummy blueberry syrup, I would’ve laughed until my tummy hurt!!!!!
Great review by the way and for some reason, I haven’t been paying attention, but I thought all the pilot flyingJ‘s were 180 KW and that’s just not fast enough for my 350 KW 800 V EGMP platform.
Although it’s better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick - as my grandmother would say.
My skin is almost crawling , waiting for my trip around the perimeter of the lower 48 and through Canada on the northern side of that trip. But I need Tesla and an adapter.
I don’t care where I am or what I am doing. I’m gonna stop at that $.35 pilot flying j in the center of Michigan in grand point Michigan or whatever the heck and I am gonna have blueberry pancakes with blueberry yummy syrup and I am going to send you a picture !!!!!! I don’t think it’s $.35 anymore because I think you’ve made it clear that the lowest pricing is in the 40s somewhere…..
The problem is I’m 63 and retired and I think I need my nap !!!!!
Enjoy the rest of your Sunday