Because I started off as a studio engineer over 40 years ago, when I switched to live mixing my approach was exactly the same as Dave’s. I worked on the PA to get it as close to the studio monitors, I was used to, as possible…. Mixing after that, was easy. Interesting how digital consoles now mimic this in the way that we use the same but increasingly more complex presets every day. We now spend more time tuning the system than adjusting any channels settings. They stay fixed. It’s the system and room that changes, so our job is to wrestle those random elements as close to our desired reference point as possible. Then we can mix in the way we enjoy.
What I mean by 'correct' is "that the sound sounds the way we (the engineer/band/management or whomever) wish it to be presented'. 'Correct' is an opinion, And the video describe one way to help achieve whatever that sound you desire is, consistently.
@npgdrums I have had numerous issues with sound vendors adding processing to the signal chain that alters the sound of the system in a negative way. My preferred signal chain is analog L/R console insert>1/3 oct>parametric>L/R ins ret & L/R outs direct to processed amps. My rule of thumb based on verified audible experimentation is "convert to digital and back to analog never more than once." or "once the signal converts to digital, it stays digital till it hits the analog power side of the amps
RAT stands for "Reveal A Truth". The only limitation is what your equipment will allow you to do. The basic idea being... Set the room EQ and level to sound good with familiar music (the same source every time) ... set the board for a good mix in the headphones ... and marry the two. Slight tweaks for feedback management and you're done... as best as can be done for that room. What's nice is that the board output is ready (including 9 to 3 o'clock or less panning) for a good stereo recording.
@lenoxx89 Theoretically, yes. Though if set up correctly the alteration of the sound by the hardware should be negligible compared to the info it provides. More important is to make sure that there is no issues like distortion, noise, or other aspect t hat pollutes the readings. It is wise to actually listen to the the RTA mic to assure that what it is 'hearing' is clear and not tainted.
@readerwriter Small rooms are not the place to worry about pulling board tapes, unless you pull them from an alternate mix source. In a small room I only use phones to check for channel problems not for the mains mix. You have to 'ride the room' and use the FOH to balance and clarify whatever is hitting you from the stage. It can also be helpful to get the artists to work with you instead of against you. A 10% reduction in stage volume can make all the different in the world.
I was nodding my head along to this whole video…I guess I’ve been intuitively a member of The Rat School from the start - ESPECIALLY as it pertains to the last few moments regarding transferability and headphone line checks.
By using comparable reference points. Regardless of how good your ears are, hearing perception changes from colds, plane flights, lack of sleep and exposure to wind and high volumes. By using headphones and analyzers one can reference where their hearing is and keep things in line.
Good question and yes, there is a way to create a "safety net" per se. If you insert a compressor on the channel or on the mix, and set the ratio very high, and a fast knee (not over easy) and the compressor is of reasonable quality, then the compressor can act as a "governor" to prevent feedback from getting too loud. Be sure to set the threshold high enough to compress only on loud feedback. Then move the compressor to each channel as you ring out or on a digi board, enable and bypass.
I've been using this philosophy for a couple of years now since I first saw this video. It's brilliant! Once you have the speakers, and system EQ set for the room mixing is very easy. Though in this video Dave might look like Jeff Spicoli, Dave is actually a genius! I've never seen such a great teacher. I send this video to anyone I work with who does sound.
@lesPaullyboy It varies a bit Ween "Baby Bitch" Dub Syndicate "Sychronizer" and other songs from the One Way System album, some Ratatat. I usually do a vocal oriented song, a low frequency Bass/Kick oriented song, a guitar and midrange song and then just something I like to hear that day.
The reason was that the 3600's would trip breakers in local clubs where I couldn't patch into a 220 panel. I also run mono only so everything is heard through both sides. I walk the room too. I hate going to concerts and the sound guy never get's off his ass and the sound sucks. I recently stood by a sound man I was haunting (unprofessional to do), but he had my favorite bands, Blackfoot and Molly Hatchet sounding like they were playing through tin cans. He finally fixed it. Know limitations too
You are exactly right. After countless years in analog world, and after transitioning and living in digital world for many years, it's always helpful to go back, simplify and review the basics.
nice vid, but dont forget that the sound in small venues is not only that whats coming out from the PA. with the channel eqs i usually try to get the right balance between acoustic sound and PA sound.
One thing I have learned over the years. Place all your speakers in one spot. Looks funky. But it removes most of your slap back problems. I have used it and it works
great tips Dave, although i must add that this method is not very suited for smaller venues where the stage sound is a big part of your mix and things like cymbals and cranked up guitar amps can really ruin the balance of your overall mix. EQing the room using headphones is a brilliant idea though, i am so going to try that thnx
Such simple helpful tips. Appreciate you not baffling me with engineering concepts and details and getting straight to what works for you and how you do it. .
@StuballScramble If you have the volume of your headphones sounding about the same volume of the system when you EQ, that flectcher munson aspect automatically factors itself out. As far as having a sound system that is linear versus one that tries to incorporate loudness compensation, that is not an EQ thing.
Well, it looks like I've been doing this right from the get go, I don't have fantastic equipment, Jbl SR4732 and 4715 subs and add a 1x18 W bin if I need more umph, but from the start, I wanted to use whatever I did have, to the best of it's ability without blowing things up etc. At lower volumes, I could add more deep bottom end, higher-I'd cut it back due to the volume. For headroom, I was using CRown MA3600's but recently switch mains to a Crest cc4,000.
I've listened very closely to your videos and tried to apply the concepts to a venue a work at. The sound was not good before but now we are making a series of recordings that will be released. The sound is so much better now, thank you thank you thank you for your excellent perspective!
Phenomenal advice. Having a consistent reference point (headphones) every time makes so much sense. I find it's so important to eq a system using the same couple of songs or noise EVERY time as well. Without that, it's hard to stay consistent. Thanks for a great video.
After watching this very informative video I wondered to myself how or if it could be applied on the monitors end of the snake. So to satisfy my curiosity I recreated the method with my wedges at a venue I work in. We have Radian Micro 12's and 15's as well as Rat fills. After tuning the wedges and mixing a show using the method I found that it works in mons quite well and I can get my wedges louder without them wanting to run away on me.
Actually a room can be EQ'ed quite effectively using headphones as a reference. Audio reference points are very useful and often much more helpful than using test equipment for perception based presentations. I will qualify my position by saying that I have used this method extensively and have over 3 decades of experience as a sound engineer mixing arena's and stadiums for artists: Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rage Against the Machine, Blink 182, Beck, Soundgarden and many more.
I'm about to leap into live mixing my own band and I found a link to this video from the Allen & Heath community forum. I'm so glad I found it and at just the right time too. This really gives me something to practice. Our band stays the same so that's going to help. I'd never ever considered your simple system and you explained it so well without loads of jargon. Thank you for putting this out there!
Interesting about the channel strips and headphones...I will have to try that. I start with the lead vocal mic through the system and the channel flat (for now).....I like that you cover 'comparative referencing' as I have always been a big supporter of that. Great video.
dave, would love to see a new, in depth video on how to ring a room using GEQ, how and why you can get into trouble over doing it on a GEQ, and what those sliders are physically doing to achieve removal/boost of specific frequencies. keep on rockin in a free world brother, love your channel
Very clear this vid, proper manner of thinking and good explanation. Timeless video for anyone to learn how house /venue EQ should be done. I work with Shure, Mackie and Tascam headphones
thanks alot..... esp gain structure or stagging. i wanted simple.but helpful... i do set live sound systems from small to mid venues including churches!! also i am a solo bass player!! your teachings are helpful to me .... thanks..... here in Tanzania.... East Africa ... to the roof of Africa KILIMANJARO HIGHEST MOUNTAIN IN AFRICA and Ngorongoro crater... where is the home also they dig Tanzanite Mining!!!! but we citizens are very poor!!!! no wonder "fake politics".... in A rdgion so caled ARUSHA!!!! I LOVE SOUND ... thanks Dave rat
Yes but the basic is what Dave said when you have done that, then you start to adjust the mix withe the acoustic sound from the stage. I did a jazz week in a medium sized tent with a small stage and when I got the main EQ right everything went on fine. I Eq'ed the monitors also. I had 5 bands each day only a halfhour to rig and do soundcheck and the last band was always a big band with up to 25 ppl with a huge brass section and they are loud. This is the basic for all live mixing.
Dave, I beg to differ in your approach it is still considered a little old school. Your approach is to correct for equipment flaws. A newer approach is managing the frequency given to each channel, this allows for a perceived channel separation. This is especially needed in vocals where each vocalist is given a featured frequency range and allows for volume changes without stepping on another vocalist's frequency range.
Dude, the headphones reference trick for system eq sounds amazing. I’m going to try that out. What song do you recommend to check a PA with? Thanks for the videos!
I use a wide variety of musics to test various aspects. Maybe something that has clear vocals something that's got defined and deep low frequencies, and something that has a lot of dynamics or mid-range content. And then perhaps some of the recorded music of the band itself.
@kravesound To solve Vocal/Drum Heavy issue, I either run the PA off of a matrix with Vocals and drums boosted a bit or run the recording off of a matrix with non vocal/drums instruments boosted. This solves the level issues while allowing an EQ reference recording to exist.
I know this is probably a really amateur, annoying question but I saw some of your videos and thought you'd know what to do; I'm entering in a talent show in my city, and my band (bass, guitar, vocal, drums) would be playing in a school's gymnasium for the event. I was wondering how I would set up our EQ and levels to compensate for an echo-ey, open space and not get a muddy sound, or at least just a few tips- thanks!
tshhh tshhhh on the headphones and tuuuffff ttuuuuuufff on the mains👍....fantastic.love this guy. very good explanations as well on how to eq the system and the mics thank you Rat for your dedication and time posting these videos i believe it can help even the most basic engineers.
Dave i got a question about the live setting up, is it from the main outs to the crossover to the amps and speakers and then you as a foh engineer controll the two main line arrays L/R and just use auxes for fx and in your main inserts the venue eq and main compressor?, then the monitor engineer controlls his auxes for the wedges and internal mixes for the band membes?, sorry for bothering you
@www73171 Thanks Dave for the quick reply. I Don't have a pink noise thingy but have a CD player with lots of CD's of music I been listening to for years. I mix off the stage which is not a easy task but I usually tune the PA with a CD then ask then with a wireless go out into the listening zone and tweak the channel eq. Just wanna make sure if I was doing it right.
brilliant video and advice!! Made my mind set of, " f**k, there's a lot to do" to a more organised mindset, and knowing exactly where i'm going. Thank You!
This is probably a really amateur annoying question; I'm entering in a talent show here, and my band (bass, guitar, vocal, drums) will be playing in a school's gymnasium for the event. I was wondering how I would set up our EQ and levels to compensate for an echo-ey, open space and not get a muddy sound, or at least just a few tips- thanks! -EDIT-, I read over it and realized how vague that sounded, all we have is an amp for bassn one for guitar with vocals over a left and right monitor
wow, you know just so much stuff about audio, I found this channel about 2 months ago, and learned so many things from your vids. my way of thinking is the same as yours, so it's very nice for me to watch your vids. I like how you explain stuff, because you have a very nice way of telling things. It's not a miracle that you are one of the best audio engineers. thanks for making these vids!
I'm just getting into the broadcast side while my son is a musician. This was very helpful so thanks for the time and effort put forth in this video. Regards, Dan
I love doing sound even more than playing guitar. I love the toys!! I only wish I could afford more and had room for it if I did have more. I was glad to see Dave Rat explain things in a very layman's way so people could understand it. I also only wish I could mix for a large show....that would be a dream come true, now that I'm already 59!! Years ago I was asked to mix Saturday night live but due to politics I guess, it never happened. I live mix for a recording session, and the guy asked me
@6sebastiancol I insert my main EQ's and drive the PA off of Matrixes so I can PFL pre and post EQ as well as have a post EQ gain control. I compress the groups and do not use L/R compression, only compression after L/R is the system limiters
@readerwriter Depends on the headphones, PA volume and your ability to mentally factor out the club sound from the headphone sound. A bit of practice with some headphones that get loud and have good isolation should see positive results
Hi Dave, I follow your blog and since you are making video's it's even greater. Would it be possible to explain levels from the desk to a controller to the amps? Propper gainstricture is important! Right!? *confused* dBV dBu dBFS ..setting limiters in controller..protect equipment ;-) On my crappy 01V96V2 the master meter shows dBFS !?. So wenn the LED-bar shows -20 the output is at +4 dBu. Maybe you can cover some of the subjects? Kind regards from Vienna-Austria
thanks for that order a lot of people don't understand the way to Eq works on a live setting some want to use the graphic Eq on the master section to correct mic and channels good video!!!
There is no real way to EQ our room echo per say except is there is a low frequency resonance which changes from room to room. Nor does louder or softer really help. Get rid of low end resonance with EQ, point the speakers at people and away from walls.
I'm kuwait trying to make music only using headphones. This is my only option. What can I do to get the very best sound with out studio monitors? Can I use EQ correction for my head phones for the flatest response possible? LOVE YOUR VIDEOS
Bought myself a SRH840, used it as described and result was best room eq ever for me. I used to get it decent by ear, but this is so easy and realy improved my overall setup, thx Dave!
@gunnyranger2 Sounds to me like it's on their end... their ears are becoming fatigued. Vocalists (especially in small venues) will complain that "they can't hear" their vox or guitar after awhile. That's because of the combined volume of the monitors, amps and drums are killing the high freqs in their ears. At sound check, I roll off the highs on the monitors. Then bring them up when they start complaining...sneaky, but it works for me...
Super cool. And yes, I find it very surprising that using an audio reference point is not the norm, just something that is always part of the mixing process. Sort of like calibrating our ears the same as setting the gain.
hi dave, love you vids and your straight forward easy to understand and common sense approach to live sound. if i ever win the lottery i would love to hire you to mix the wedding band i play in.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Neva Play (feat. RM) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpYTyAaTRts/mqdefault.jpg)
Because I started off as a studio engineer over 40 years ago, when I switched to live mixing my approach was exactly the same as Dave’s. I worked on the PA to get it as close to the studio monitors, I was used to, as possible…. Mixing after that, was easy.
Interesting how digital consoles now mimic this in the way that we use the same but increasingly more complex presets every day. We now spend more time tuning the system than adjusting any channels settings. They stay fixed. It’s the system and room that changes, so our job is to wrestle those random elements as close to our desired reference point as possible. Then we can mix in the way we enjoy.
Agreed
What I mean by 'correct' is "that the sound sounds the way we (the engineer/band/management or whomever) wish it to be presented'. 'Correct' is an opinion, And the video describe one way to help achieve whatever that sound you desire is, consistently.
Wonderful explaination
@npgdrums I have had numerous issues with sound vendors adding processing to the signal chain that alters the sound of the system in a negative way. My preferred signal chain is analog L/R console insert>1/3 oct>parametric>L/R ins ret & L/R outs direct to processed amps. My rule of thumb based on verified audible experimentation is "convert to digital and back to analog never more than once." or "once the signal converts to digital, it stays digital till it hits the analog power side of the amps
RAT stands for "Reveal A Truth". The only limitation is what your equipment will allow you to do. The basic idea being... Set the room EQ and level to sound good with familiar music (the same source every time) ... set the board for a good mix in the headphones ... and marry the two. Slight tweaks for feedback management and you're done... as best as can be done for that room. What's nice is that the board output is ready (including 9 to 3 o'clock or less panning) for a good stereo recording.
@lenoxx89 Theoretically, yes. Though if set up correctly the alteration of the sound by the hardware should be negligible compared to the info it provides. More important is to make sure that there is no issues like distortion, noise, or other aspect t hat pollutes the readings. It is wise to actually listen to the the RTA mic to assure that what it is 'hearing' is clear and not tainted.
@readerwriter
Small rooms are not the place to worry about pulling board tapes, unless you pull them from an alternate mix source. In a small room I only use phones to check for channel problems not for the mains mix. You have to 'ride the room' and use the FOH to balance and clarify whatever is hitting you from the stage.
It can also be helpful to get the artists to work with you instead of against you. A 10% reduction in stage volume can make all the different in the world.
I was nodding my head along to this whole video…I guess I’ve been intuitively a member of The Rat School from the start - ESPECIALLY as it pertains to the last few moments regarding transferability and headphone line checks.
👍🤙👍
By using comparable reference points. Regardless of how good your ears are, hearing perception changes from colds, plane flights, lack of sleep and exposure to wind and high volumes. By using headphones and analyzers one can reference where their hearing is and keep things in line.
these videos are f*cking incredible.. even as a re-explanation of things one already knows this is insanely well explained..
Really helpful video many thanks.
☺ I go though the same process. As technology has evolved, not much has changed with the setup and logic.
👍🤙👍
dave, great info, simply you need a reference point , cd you know headfones you know, and of course good ears. you talk sense
Good question and yes, there is a way to create a "safety net" per se. If you insert a compressor on the channel or on the mix, and set the ratio very high, and a fast knee (not over easy) and the compressor is of reasonable quality, then the compressor can act as a "governor" to prevent feedback from getting too loud.
Be sure to set the threshold high enough to compress only on loud feedback. Then move the compressor to each channel as you ring out or on a digi board, enable and bypass.
Very interesting. Gotta try out the headphone trick next time. Thanks
I've been using this philosophy for a couple of years now since I first saw this video. It's brilliant! Once you have the speakers, and system EQ set for the room mixing is very easy. Though in this video Dave might look like Jeff Spicoli, Dave is actually a genius! I've never seen such a great teacher. I send this video to anyone I work with who does sound.
@bolofofis That is a Tangent 1202a
This is excellent! Thanks!
Thanks Dave. 🙏
@lesPaullyboy It varies a bit Ween "Baby Bitch" Dub Syndicate "Sychronizer" and other songs from the One Way System album, some Ratatat. I usually do a vocal oriented song, a low frequency Bass/Kick oriented song, a guitar and midrange song and then just something I like to hear that day.
The reason was that the 3600's would trip breakers in local clubs where I couldn't patch into a 220 panel. I also run mono only so everything is heard through both sides. I walk the room too. I hate going to concerts and the sound guy never get's off his ass and the sound sucks. I recently stood by a sound man I was haunting (unprofessional to do), but he had my favorite bands, Blackfoot and Molly Hatchet sounding like they were playing through tin cans. He finally fixed it. Know limitations too
Thank you for your advice
Cool cool Kevin!
You are exactly right. After countless years in analog world, and after transitioning and living in digital world for many years, it's always helpful to go back, simplify and review the basics.
nice vid, but dont forget that the sound in small venues is not only that whats coming out from the PA. with the channel eqs i usually try to get the right balance between acoustic sound and PA sound.
awesome Dave most enlightening a big THUMBS UP !
One thing I have learned over the years. Place all your speakers in one spot. Looks funky. But it removes most of your slap back problems. I have used it and it works
Great info! Thank you!!
👍
Excellent video.........thanks Dave....
great tips Dave,
although i must add that this method is not very suited for smaller venues where the stage sound is a big part of your mix and things like cymbals and cranked up guitar amps can really ruin the balance of your overall mix.
EQing the room using headphones is a brilliant idea though, i am so going to try that thnx
Such simple helpful tips. Appreciate you not baffling me with engineering concepts and details and getting straight to what works for you and how you do it.
.
+Alex McShane Cool cool and thank you
Alex McShane ybhh
@StuballScramble If you have the volume of your headphones sounding about the same volume of the system when you EQ, that flectcher munson aspect automatically factors itself out. As far as having a sound system that is linear versus one that tries to incorporate loudness compensation, that is not an EQ thing.
Well, it looks like I've been doing this right from the get go, I don't have fantastic equipment, Jbl SR4732 and 4715 subs and add a 1x18 W bin if I need more umph, but from the start, I wanted to use whatever I did have, to the best of it's ability without blowing things up etc. At lower volumes, I could add more deep bottom end, higher-I'd cut it back due to the volume. For headroom, I was using CRown MA3600's but recently switch mains to a Crest cc4,000.
What? 7 1/2 years later and the video is still gold. Thanks!
I've listened very closely to your videos and tried to apply the concepts to a venue a work at. The sound was not good before but now we are making a series of recordings that will be released. The sound is so much better now, thank you thank you thank you for your excellent perspective!
Phenomenal advice. Having a consistent reference point (headphones) every time makes so much sense. I find it's so important to eq a system using the same couple of songs or noise EVERY time as well. Without that, it's hard to stay consistent. Thanks for a great video.
This approach is absolutely correct. Makes total sense, and it works. Thank you Dave for the brilliant explanation.
Thank you Scott
After watching this very informative video I wondered to myself how or if it could be applied on the monitors end of the snake. So to satisfy my curiosity I recreated the method with my wedges at a venue I work in. We have Radian Micro 12's and 15's as well as Rat fills. After tuning the wedges and mixing a show using the method I found that it works in mons quite well and I can get my wedges louder without them wanting to run away on me.
This is one mother of a video. Never understood why you'd need all these different places to EQ (Mixer, Monitor, system etc) until I saw this. Thanks!
Very very very informative. thanks a lot! made a whole lot of sense.
Actually a room can be EQ'ed quite effectively using headphones as a reference. Audio reference points are very useful and often much more helpful than using test equipment for perception based presentations.
I will qualify my position by saying that I have used this method extensively and have over 3 decades of experience as a sound engineer mixing arena's and stadiums for artists: Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rage Against the Machine, Blink 182, Beck, Soundgarden and many more.
I'm about to leap into live mixing my own band and I found a link to this video from the Allen & Heath community forum. I'm so glad I found it and at just the right time too. This really gives me something to practice. Our band stays the same so that's going to help. I'd never ever considered your simple system and you explained it so well without loads of jargon. Thank you for putting this out there!
Interesting about the channel strips and headphones...I will have to try that. I start with the lead vocal mic through the system and the channel flat (for now).....I like that you cover 'comparative referencing' as I have always been a big supporter of that. Great video.
best teacher
Good Tips
👍👍 Robby
He makes it sound so simple.... big up Dave Rat ,im gonna learn its too much fun messing with booming speakers!!!!!thx for the advice!
dave, would love to see a new, in depth video on how to ring a room using GEQ, how and why you can get into trouble over doing it on a GEQ, and what those sliders are physically doing to achieve removal/boost of specific frequencies. keep on rockin in a free world brother, love your channel
Cool, will ponder another eq vid
Good practical info, thx!
I never needed to do a live soundcheck and i never got the time to it either. I had my headphones and i knew my gear.
Thank you for explaining why my live mix recordings sound awesome.
👍
Very clear this vid, proper manner of thinking and good explanation. Timeless video for anyone to learn how house /venue EQ should be done. I work with Shure, Mackie and Tascam headphones
Thank you!
oh man, so inspired!!! on a deep youtube dave rat rabbit hole
@brainz11203 I start without the subs and then add them in
thanks alot..... esp gain structure or stagging. i wanted simple.but helpful... i do set live sound systems from small to mid venues including churches!! also i am a solo bass player!! your teachings are helpful to me .... thanks..... here in Tanzania.... East Africa ... to the roof of Africa KILIMANJARO HIGHEST MOUNTAIN IN AFRICA and Ngorongoro crater... where is the home also they dig Tanzanite Mining!!!! but we citizens are very poor!!!! no wonder "fake politics"....
in A rdgion so caled ARUSHA!!!! I LOVE SOUND ... thanks Dave rat
The simplest approaches make for great productions the vast majority of the time. Love the way you explained this.
Wao! Great/experienced knowledge love it. Real helpful video..
Yes but the basic is what Dave said when you have done that, then you start to adjust the mix withe the acoustic sound from the stage. I did a jazz week in a medium sized tent with a small stage and when I got the main EQ right everything went on fine. I Eq'ed the monitors also. I had 5 bands each day only a halfhour to rig and do soundcheck and the last band was always a big band with up to 25 ppl with a huge brass section and they are loud. This is the basic for all live mixing.
Dave, I beg to differ in your approach it is still considered a little old school. Your approach is to correct for equipment flaws. A newer approach is managing the frequency given to each channel, this allows for a perceived channel separation. This is especially needed in vocals where each vocalist is given a featured frequency range and allows for volume changes without stepping on another vocalist's frequency range.
Dude, the headphones reference trick for system eq sounds amazing. I’m going to try that out. What song do you recommend to check a PA with? Thanks for the videos!
I use a wide variety of musics to test various aspects. Maybe something that has clear vocals something that's got defined and deep low frequencies, and something that has a lot of dynamics or mid-range content. And then perhaps some of the recorded music of the band itself.
@@DaveRat thank you, Sir!
Lots of good, sensible ideas and methods in there. Well done. HAGOS
@kravesound To solve Vocal/Drum Heavy issue, I either run the PA off of a matrix with Vocals and drums boosted a bit or run the recording off of a matrix with non vocal/drums instruments boosted. This solves the level issues while allowing an EQ reference recording to exist.
I know this is probably a really amateur, annoying question but I saw some of your videos and thought you'd know what to do; I'm entering in a talent show in my city, and my band (bass, guitar, vocal, drums) would be playing in a school's gymnasium for the event. I was wondering how I would set up our EQ and levels to compensate for an echo-ey, open space and not get a muddy sound, or at least just a few tips- thanks!
Dave Rat. My only reputable source for live sound, and recording engineering application solutions. Thanks mate!
Great tips!
Brilliant video, never thought of comparing headphones to live PA like that. What a great idea.
Awesome!
tshhh tshhhh on the headphones and tuuuffff ttuuuuuufff on the mains👍....fantastic.love this guy.
very good explanations as well on how to eq the system and the mics
thank you Rat for your dedication and time posting these videos i believe it can help even the most basic engineers.
lol. i got mine check one time
I normally tell people Don't Touch the EQ. People can't tell the difference between bright or boomy unless the Crossover is just screwed up.
Dave i got a question about the live setting up, is it from the main outs to the crossover to the amps and speakers and then you as a foh engineer controll the two main line arrays L/R and just use auxes for fx and in your main inserts the venue eq and main compressor?, then the monitor engineer controlls his auxes for the wedges and internal mixes for the band membes?, sorry for bothering you
@www73171
Thanks Dave for the quick reply. I Don't have a pink noise thingy but have a CD player with lots of CD's of music I been listening to for years.
I mix off the stage which is not a easy task but I usually tune the PA with a CD then ask then with a wireless go out into the listening zone and tweak the channel eq. Just wanna make sure if I was doing it right.
brilliant video and advice!! Made my mind set of, " f**k, there's a lot to do" to a more organised mindset, and knowing exactly where i'm going. Thank You!
This is probably a really amateur annoying question; I'm entering in a talent show here, and my band (bass, guitar, vocal, drums) will be playing in a school's gymnasium for the event. I was wondering how I would set up our EQ and levels to compensate for an echo-ey, open space and not get a muddy sound, or at least just a few tips- thanks!
-EDIT-, I read over it and realized how vague that sounded, all we have is an amp for bassn one for guitar with vocals over a left and right monitor
Ohhhh... THAT'S what the headphone jack is for! Definitely going to try this. Thanks!
great job love your vids
Is that a NEI/Neptune Mixer? I had 12x4x2x1 made by them that looked almost exactly like that.
exactly. Hopefully I will get some info up on what I am working on with solving some stereo and comb filtering challenges for live reinforcement
wow, you know just so much stuff about audio, I found this channel about 2 months ago, and learned so many things from your vids. my way of thinking is the same as yours, so it's very nice for me to watch your vids. I like how you explain stuff, because you have a very nice way of telling things. It's not a miracle that you are one of the best audio engineers. thanks for making these vids!
I'm just getting into the broadcast side while my son is a musician. This was very helpful so thanks for the time and effort put forth in this video. Regards, Dan
Thank you Dan
I love doing sound even more than playing guitar. I love the toys!! I only wish I could afford more and had room for it if I did have more.
I was glad to see Dave Rat explain things in a very layman's way so people could understand it.
I also only wish I could mix for a large show....that would be a dream come true, now that I'm already 59!!
Years ago I was asked to mix Saturday night live but due to politics I guess, it never happened. I live mix for a recording session, and the guy asked me
So right and so simple , your Amazing Dave !
@6sebastiancol I insert my main EQ's and drive the PA off of Matrixes so I can PFL pre and post EQ as well as have a post EQ gain control. I compress the groups and do not use L/R compression, only compression after L/R is the system limiters
Awesome video. What a legend giving away tremendous content for free. Thanks Dave!
Cool cool Rodrigo!
great video Dave. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.
@readerwriter Depends on the headphones, PA volume and your ability to mentally factor out the club sound from the headphone sound. A bit of practice with some headphones that get loud and have good isolation should see positive results
Hi Dave,
I follow your blog and since you are making video's it's even greater.
Would it be possible to explain levels from the desk to a controller to the amps?
Propper gainstricture is important! Right!?
*confused* dBV dBu dBFS ..setting limiters in controller..protect equipment ;-)
On my crappy 01V96V2 the master meter shows dBFS !?. So wenn the LED-bar shows -20 the output is at +4 dBu.
Maybe you can cover some of the subjects?
Kind regards from Vienna-Austria
thanks for that order a lot of people don't understand the way to Eq works on a live setting some want to use the graphic Eq on the master section to correct mic and channels good video!!!
There is no real way to EQ our room echo per say except is there is a low frequency resonance which changes from room to room. Nor does louder or softer really help. Get rid of low end resonance with EQ, point the speakers at people and away from walls.
i love the idea of comparing the cd through headphones to the PA - will try it for sure!
I never thought of using headphones as a reference to tune speakers. But it's brilliant. A good set of headphones should sound the same everywhere.
+Crunch2 Very cool and thank you!
not all headphone amps are the same
I'm into live pro audio, thank you for the videos, you won't find this kind of teaching in any textbook. I'm a big fan of Dave Rat.
Thank you!
great now i gotta buy new headphones... haha which would you chose.... the Shure's or the Denon's.... I am coming from a well warn pair of MDR-7506's
I'm kuwait trying to make music only using headphones. This is my only option. What can I do to get the very best sound with out studio monitors? Can I use EQ correction for my head phones for the flatest response possible?
LOVE YOUR VIDEOS
LOVE your use of the word "Correct" in regards to the sound. Speakin' my language!
Bought myself a SRH840, used it as described and result was best room eq ever for me. I used to get it decent by ear, but this is so easy and realy improved my overall setup, thx Dave!
This stuff is Gold!
Awesome thank you Chris!
Thanks Dave! Helped us a lot.
@gunnyranger2 Sounds to me like it's on their end... their ears are becoming fatigued. Vocalists (especially in small venues) will complain that "they can't hear" their vox or guitar after awhile. That's because of the combined volume of the monitors, amps and drums are killing the high freqs in their ears. At sound check, I roll off the highs on the monitors. Then bring them up when they start complaining...sneaky, but it works for me...
I love these videos and know they are old, but the irony of a sound video which actually has really bad sound on it, doesn't escape me!!
👍🔧👍
Super cool. And yes, I find it very surprising that using an audio reference point is not the norm, just something that is always part of the mixing process. Sort of like calibrating our ears the same as setting the gain.
hey Dave. great advice. I personally use steely Dan for reference, as they are notorious for recording everything thing flat.
hi dave, love you vids and your straight forward easy to understand and common sense approach to live sound. if i ever win the lottery i would love to hire you to mix the wedding band i play in.
@www73171 A RTA is a real time analyzer that allows you to "see the volume levels of a multitude of frequency bands in the audio spectrum