What I mean by 'correct' is "that the sound sounds the way we (the engineer/band/management or whomever) wish it to be presented'. 'Correct' is an opinion, And the video describe one way to help achieve whatever that sound you desire is, consistently.
I've been using this philosophy for a couple of years now since I first saw this video. It's brilliant! Once you have the speakers, and system EQ set for the room mixing is very easy. Though in this video Dave might look like Jeff Spicoli, Dave is actually a genius! I've never seen such a great teacher. I send this video to anyone I work with who does sound.
This single video has given me the confidence to actually go ahead with doing FoH, up until this one I felt like I didnt really understand how to EQ but now I feel confident that I know what I am supposed to do!
Such simple helpful tips. Appreciate you not baffling me with engineering concepts and details and getting straight to what works for you and how you do it. .
You are exactly right. After countless years in analog world, and after transitioning and living in digital world for many years, it's always helpful to go back, simplify and review the basics.
I'm about to leap into live mixing my own band and I found a link to this video from the Allen & Heath community forum. I'm so glad I found it and at just the right time too. This really gives me something to practice. Our band stays the same so that's going to help. I'd never ever considered your simple system and you explained it so well without loads of jargon. Thank you for putting this out there!
I've listened very closely to your videos and tried to apply the concepts to a venue a work at. The sound was not good before but now we are making a series of recordings that will be released. The sound is so much better now, thank you thank you thank you for your excellent perspective!
Phenomenal advice. Having a consistent reference point (headphones) every time makes so much sense. I find it's so important to eq a system using the same couple of songs or noise EVERY time as well. Without that, it's hard to stay consistent. Thanks for a great video.
dave, would love to see a new, in depth video on how to ring a room using GEQ, how and why you can get into trouble over doing it on a GEQ, and what those sliders are physically doing to achieve removal/boost of specific frequencies. keep on rockin in a free world brother, love your channel
Very clear this vid, proper manner of thinking and good explanation. Timeless video for anyone to learn how house /venue EQ should be done. I work with Shure, Mackie and Tascam headphones
Actually a room can be EQ'ed quite effectively using headphones as a reference. Audio reference points are very useful and often much more helpful than using test equipment for perception based presentations. I will qualify my position by saying that I have used this method extensively and have over 3 decades of experience as a sound engineer mixing arena's and stadiums for artists: Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rage Against the Machine, Blink 182, Beck, Soundgarden and many more.
wow, you know just so much stuff about audio, I found this channel about 2 months ago, and learned so many things from your vids. my way of thinking is the same as yours, so it's very nice for me to watch your vids. I like how you explain stuff, because you have a very nice way of telling things. It's not a miracle that you are one of the best audio engineers. thanks for making these vids!
One thing I have learned over the years. Place all your speakers in one spot. Looks funky. But it removes most of your slap back problems. I have used it and it works
Because I started off as a studio engineer over 40 years ago, when I switched to live mixing my approach was exactly the same as Dave’s. I worked on the PA to get it as close to the studio monitors, I was used to, as possible…. Mixing after that, was easy. Interesting how digital consoles now mimic this in the way that we use the same but increasingly more complex presets every day. We now spend more time tuning the system than adjusting any channels settings. They stay fixed. It’s the system and room that changes, so our job is to wrestle those random elements as close to our desired reference point as possible. Then we can mix in the way we enjoy.
Bought myself a SRH840, used it as described and result was best room eq ever for me. I used to get it decent by ear, but this is so easy and realy improved my overall setup, thx Dave!
@npgdrums I have had numerous issues with sound vendors adding processing to the signal chain that alters the sound of the system in a negative way. My preferred signal chain is analog L/R console insert>1/3 oct>parametric>L/R ins ret & L/R outs direct to processed amps. My rule of thumb based on verified audible experimentation is "convert to digital and back to analog never more than once." or "once the signal converts to digital, it stays digital till it hits the analog power side of the amps
Dave Rat, your videos have been a fantastic resource for better wrapping my head around concepts that I've found, after better understanding them, needlessly complicated from other sources. Even more importantly, they've been a fantastic tool for conveying various engineering concepts to musicians who may not be well versed in pro audio (I doubt many people have the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement handbook as their bathroom reader...) Your efforts to make these videos is greatly appreciated, you freaking rock man.
This was probably the best video I've seen on this topic. I just recently tuned my room, but I didn't think about using my headphones as the reference, I just went by memory, haha. I'll have to retune now, but I'm really looking forward to it! Thank you, that is an awesome idea!
tshhh tshhhh on the headphones and tuuuffff ttuuuuuufff on the mains👍....fantastic.love this guy. very good explanations as well on how to eq the system and the mics thank you Rat for your dedication and time posting these videos i believe it can help even the most basic engineers.
After watching this very informative video I wondered to myself how or if it could be applied on the monitors end of the snake. So to satisfy my curiosity I recreated the method with my wedges at a venue I work in. We have Radian Micro 12's and 15's as well as Rat fills. After tuning the wedges and mixing a show using the method I found that it works in mons quite well and I can get my wedges louder without them wanting to run away on me.
Very true and to the point. I have been instructing the sound engineers working with me on this simple and and proper way to achieve consistency always with Live Shows. My live recordings often sound better than the band CDs because I have followed these principles for decades. I worked with Dave Rat briefly about 1990 with Fugazi and Laughing Hyenas.
By using comparable reference points. Regardless of how good your ears are, hearing perception changes from colds, plane flights, lack of sleep and exposure to wind and high volumes. By using headphones and analyzers one can reference where their hearing is and keep things in line.
Good question and yes, there is a way to create a "safety net" per se. If you insert a compressor on the channel or on the mix, and set the ratio very high, and a fast knee (not over easy) and the compressor is of reasonable quality, then the compressor can act as a "governor" to prevent feedback from getting too loud. Be sure to set the threshold high enough to compress only on loud feedback. Then move the compressor to each channel as you ring out or on a digi board, enable and bypass.
I'm just getting into the broadcast side while my son is a musician. This was very helpful so thanks for the time and effort put forth in this video. Regards, Dan
Interesting about the channel strips and headphones...I will have to try that. I start with the lead vocal mic through the system and the channel flat (for now).....I like that you cover 'comparative referencing' as I have always been a big supporter of that. Great video.
Thank you very much, Dave, for all these videos and the blog. Thank you for sharing because you answer a lot of question I was asking myself. Can't wait the next shows to get into your method !Thx !
thanks for that order a lot of people don't understand the way to Eq works on a live setting some want to use the graphic Eq on the master section to correct mic and channels good video!!!
I love doing sound even more than playing guitar. I love the toys!! I only wish I could afford more and had room for it if I did have more. I was glad to see Dave Rat explain things in a very layman's way so people could understand it. I also only wish I could mix for a large show....that would be a dream come true, now that I'm already 59!! Years ago I was asked to mix Saturday night live but due to politics I guess, it never happened. I live mix for a recording session, and the guy asked me
I was nodding my head along to this whole video…I guess I’ve been intuitively a member of The Rat School from the start - ESPECIALLY as it pertains to the last few moments regarding transferability and headphone line checks.
awesome man! Thanks so much for taking the time to make these.I learned live sound on the fly,cause I was the only one willing to learn and run the sound systems for my friends lol. But these keep me on the right path and instill some confidence,thanks again!
Hey Dave, love the Videos and thank you for taking the time to make them. Maybe you could do a video or explain what goes into "tuning" a room at any given venue, when it comes to 1/3 EQs, Pink Noise, RTAs, crossovers (and recommended crossover points for drivers/horns/subs) etc.... If you can, I'd appreciate it so much! THANKS! -Nick
Its even simpler, as typically rooms with problems created by the superposition of a mix of direct and reflected signals cannot be 'corrected for' with EQ - thus you focus on dealing with the minimum phase isolated signal chain of, as Dave stated, mic and instrument signal that goes to the board.
Thanks for this video.. I'm just starting out learning live mixing+recording and you were able to explain all of this seemingly complex stuff in a way that I could understand!
Thanks dave! Very clear and useful. Subscribed! Now I wish I could get my buddy to get rid of the smiley face EQ mentality. He always very carefully and seriously adjusts the smiley face into the board EQ. Then readjusts the channel EQ's every time. "More bass on my voice". ARGGHHHH!!!
Thanks for the tips, I always got taught to only mix and EQ by listening to the PA and I only use my headphones for PFLing. This is a very interesting approach that actually makes quite a lot of sense. Because there will be less corrective EQ for the PA on the EQ's on the channels. The method I used before were smaller venues and though it always sounded decent in the room but the stereo recording of the mix always missed stuff and over-exaggerated some instruments that didn't over-exaggerate them selfs acoustically in the room. Maybe this will change too with your method. I'd love to try it out sometime. Thanks for all the videos! Even the 10 year old videos are still useful to this day!
The way to EQ a room with a GEQ is to listen for the "Wolf" frequencies. This is done by slowly bringing up the main vocal mic fader until it just starts to ring. find the frequency of the ring on the GEQ and lower the level of that frequency on the EQ. Now bring up the gain a little more and repeat. When the system is properly tuned to the room you should be able to excite the room with at least 4 different feedback points at the same time. They should be spread over the entire frequency band ie: a low frequency node, a mid frequency node, and upper mid and a high frequency node. If you can accomplish this you have successfully flattened the frequency response of that particular room. No pink noise or RTA required. The main EQ should never be used to change the tone of the system but rather to reduce the feedback nodes (wolf frequencies) which will assure that you can achieve maximum usable system gain without ringing or howling feedback.
Yep, that is a way to tune a room to a specific mic in a certain position or location. That does not take into account things like console out recording and tuning a system such that it can be transported to other locations with minimal alteration. Though that can be an effective way to easily get decent gain before feedback.
brilliant video and advice!! Made my mind set of, " f**k, there's a lot to do" to a more organised mindset, and knowing exactly where i'm going. Thank You!
Super cool. And yes, I find it very surprising that using an audio reference point is not the norm, just something that is always part of the mixing process. Sort of like calibrating our ears the same as setting the gain.
You are awesome. Your tips really do help. keep it up dave, the puzzle pieces are coming together quickly as a new sound guy myself
3 года назад+2
Thanks for these great tips, but I don't think this method will work in small clubs. In such situations, we are dealing with partial amplification of instruments, as some are heard through the air (for example, cymbals). In my experience, the proportions in the raw mix listened to through headphones straight from the console are far from ideal, very often the vocals and kick drum are too exposed.
@kravesound To solve Vocal/Drum Heavy issue, I either run the PA off of a matrix with Vocals and drums boosted a bit or run the recording off of a matrix with non vocal/drums instruments boosted. This solves the level issues while allowing an EQ reference recording to exist.
nice vid, but dont forget that the sound in small venues is not only that whats coming out from the PA. with the channel eqs i usually try to get the right balance between acoustic sound and PA sound.
hi dave, love you vids and your straight forward easy to understand and common sense approach to live sound. if i ever win the lottery i would love to hire you to mix the wedding band i play in.
@lenoxx89 Theoretically, yes. Though if set up correctly the alteration of the sound by the hardware should be negligible compared to the info it provides. More important is to make sure that there is no issues like distortion, noise, or other aspect t hat pollutes the readings. It is wise to actually listen to the the RTA mic to assure that what it is 'hearing' is clear and not tainted.
@readerwriter Depends on the headphones, PA volume and your ability to mentally factor out the club sound from the headphone sound. A bit of practice with some headphones that get loud and have good isolation should see positive results
@readerwriter Small rooms are not the place to worry about pulling board tapes, unless you pull them from an alternate mix source. In a small room I only use phones to check for channel problems not for the mains mix. You have to 'ride the room' and use the FOH to balance and clarify whatever is hitting you from the stage. It can also be helpful to get the artists to work with you instead of against you. A 10% reduction in stage volume can make all the different in the world.
great tips Dave, although i must add that this method is not very suited for smaller venues where the stage sound is a big part of your mix and things like cymbals and cranked up guitar amps can really ruin the balance of your overall mix. EQing the room using headphones is a brilliant idea though, i am so going to try that thnx
What's the best process for "ringing out" a room? I find myself carefully edging up the master level, (mon. or main), until I hear something start to flare up, then back the master back down quickly, find that frequ on the EQ and pull it down. But inadvertently, something always gets away from me briefly and squeels. Any safer way to find those offending frequencies with a tihghter handle on levels? Thanks SO MUCH for your work! You are an excellent 'explainer'.
Hi Dave, I really love this advice and it makes it simple to me to follow the steps as you have laid them out, I respect you and I think you for sharing you knowledge with us ! Having said that, I mix mainly in small bars/ clubs 75 to 300 people, what I struggle with most in these rooms is Subwoofer placement, I use Two 18 inch subs, Can you end this debate for me once and for all ! Whats better, to place them side by side on one side of the stage or to place one on each side as you commonly see
these videos are f*cking incredible.. even as a re-explanation of things one already knows this is insanely well explained..
What I mean by 'correct' is "that the sound sounds the way we (the engineer/band/management or whomever) wish it to be presented'. 'Correct' is an opinion, And the video describe one way to help achieve whatever that sound you desire is, consistently.
I've been using this philosophy for a couple of years now since I first saw this video. It's brilliant! Once you have the speakers, and system EQ set for the room mixing is very easy. Though in this video Dave might look like Jeff Spicoli, Dave is actually a genius! I've never seen such a great teacher. I send this video to anyone I work with who does sound.
This single video has given me the confidence to actually go ahead with doing FoH, up until this one I felt like I didnt really understand how to EQ but now I feel confident that I know what I am supposed to do!
That makes my day
Such simple helpful tips. Appreciate you not baffling me with engineering concepts and details and getting straight to what works for you and how you do it.
.
+Alex McShane Cool cool and thank you
Alex McShane ybhh
What? 7 1/2 years later and the video is still gold. Thanks!
You are exactly right. After countless years in analog world, and after transitioning and living in digital world for many years, it's always helpful to go back, simplify and review the basics.
This is one mother of a video. Never understood why you'd need all these different places to EQ (Mixer, Monitor, system etc) until I saw this. Thanks!
I'm about to leap into live mixing my own band and I found a link to this video from the Allen & Heath community forum. I'm so glad I found it and at just the right time too. This really gives me something to practice. Our band stays the same so that's going to help. I'd never ever considered your simple system and you explained it so well without loads of jargon. Thank you for putting this out there!
I've listened very closely to your videos and tried to apply the concepts to a venue a work at. The sound was not good before but now we are making a series of recordings that will be released. The sound is so much better now, thank you thank you thank you for your excellent perspective!
This approach is absolutely correct. Makes total sense, and it works. Thank you Dave for the brilliant explanation.
Thank you Scott
Phenomenal advice. Having a consistent reference point (headphones) every time makes so much sense. I find it's so important to eq a system using the same couple of songs or noise EVERY time as well. Without that, it's hard to stay consistent. Thanks for a great video.
Dave Rat. My only reputable source for live sound, and recording engineering application solutions. Thanks mate!
dave, would love to see a new, in depth video on how to ring a room using GEQ, how and why you can get into trouble over doing it on a GEQ, and what those sliders are physically doing to achieve removal/boost of specific frequencies. keep on rockin in a free world brother, love your channel
Cool, will ponder another eq vid
Awesome video. What a legend giving away tremendous content for free. Thanks Dave!
Cool cool Rodrigo!
He makes it sound so simple.... big up Dave Rat ,im gonna learn its too much fun messing with booming speakers!!!!!thx for the advice!
Very clear this vid, proper manner of thinking and good explanation. Timeless video for anyone to learn how house /venue EQ should be done. I work with Shure, Mackie and Tascam headphones
Thank you!
Actually a room can be EQ'ed quite effectively using headphones as a reference. Audio reference points are very useful and often much more helpful than using test equipment for perception based presentations.
I will qualify my position by saying that I have used this method extensively and have over 3 decades of experience as a sound engineer mixing arena's and stadiums for artists: Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rage Against the Machine, Blink 182, Beck, Soundgarden and many more.
wow, you know just so much stuff about audio, I found this channel about 2 months ago, and learned so many things from your vids. my way of thinking is the same as yours, so it's very nice for me to watch your vids. I like how you explain stuff, because you have a very nice way of telling things. It's not a miracle that you are one of the best audio engineers. thanks for making these vids!
One thing I have learned over the years. Place all your speakers in one spot. Looks funky. But it removes most of your slap back problems. I have used it and it works
The simplest approaches make for great productions the vast majority of the time. Love the way you explained this.
Because I started off as a studio engineer over 40 years ago, when I switched to live mixing my approach was exactly the same as Dave’s. I worked on the PA to get it as close to the studio monitors, I was used to, as possible…. Mixing after that, was easy.
Interesting how digital consoles now mimic this in the way that we use the same but increasingly more complex presets every day. We now spend more time tuning the system than adjusting any channels settings. They stay fixed. It’s the system and room that changes, so our job is to wrestle those random elements as close to our desired reference point as possible. Then we can mix in the way we enjoy.
Agreed
Bought myself a SRH840, used it as described and result was best room eq ever for me. I used to get it decent by ear, but this is so easy and realy improved my overall setup, thx Dave!
That's awesome, Dave!
Anyone who has doubts on how to set up the board, eq and mains should listen to this. Thanks for sharing, Brother!
You're quickly becoming my all time favorite engineer. I can't wait to see the Peppers in Milwaukee and listen to your work!
@npgdrums I have had numerous issues with sound vendors adding processing to the signal chain that alters the sound of the system in a negative way. My preferred signal chain is analog L/R console insert>1/3 oct>parametric>L/R ins ret & L/R outs direct to processed amps. My rule of thumb based on verified audible experimentation is "convert to digital and back to analog never more than once." or "once the signal converts to digital, it stays digital till it hits the analog power side of the amps
Dave Rat, your videos have been a fantastic resource for better wrapping my head around concepts that I've found, after better understanding them, needlessly complicated from other sources. Even more importantly, they've been a fantastic tool for conveying various engineering concepts to musicians who may not be well versed in pro audio (I doubt many people have the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement handbook as their bathroom reader...)
Your efforts to make these videos is greatly appreciated, you freaking rock man.
Thank you so much!
Thank you Jeremy
This was probably the best video I've seen on this topic.
I just recently tuned my room, but I didn't think about using my headphones as the reference, I just went by memory, haha. I'll have to retune now, but I'm really looking forward to it! Thank you, that is an awesome idea!
tshhh tshhhh on the headphones and tuuuffff ttuuuuuufff on the mains👍....fantastic.love this guy.
very good explanations as well on how to eq the system and the mics
thank you Rat for your dedication and time posting these videos i believe it can help even the most basic engineers.
Brilliant video, never thought of comparing headphones to live PA like that. What a great idea.
Awesome!
After watching this very informative video I wondered to myself how or if it could be applied on the monitors end of the snake. So to satisfy my curiosity I recreated the method with my wedges at a venue I work in. We have Radian Micro 12's and 15's as well as Rat fills. After tuning the wedges and mixing a show using the method I found that it works in mons quite well and I can get my wedges louder without them wanting to run away on me.
Very true and to the point. I have been instructing the sound engineers working with me on this simple and and proper way to achieve consistency always with Live Shows. My live recordings often sound better than the band CDs because I have followed these principles for decades. I worked with Dave Rat briefly about 1990 with Fugazi and Laughing Hyenas.
Thank you!
One of the best engies making RUclips videos? AWESOME!
By using comparable reference points. Regardless of how good your ears are, hearing perception changes from colds, plane flights, lack of sleep and exposure to wind and high volumes. By using headphones and analyzers one can reference where their hearing is and keep things in line.
Good question and yes, there is a way to create a "safety net" per se. If you insert a compressor on the channel or on the mix, and set the ratio very high, and a fast knee (not over easy) and the compressor is of reasonable quality, then the compressor can act as a "governor" to prevent feedback from getting too loud.
Be sure to set the threshold high enough to compress only on loud feedback. Then move the compressor to each channel as you ring out or on a digi board, enable and bypass.
LOVE your use of the word "Correct" in regards to the sound. Speakin' my language!
I'm just getting into the broadcast side while my son is a musician. This was very helpful so thanks for the time and effort put forth in this video. Regards, Dan
Thank you Dan
I'm into live pro audio, thank you for the videos, you won't find this kind of teaching in any textbook. I'm a big fan of Dave Rat.
Thank you!
I never thought of using headphones as a reference to tune speakers. But it's brilliant. A good set of headphones should sound the same everywhere.
+Crunch2 Very cool and thank you!
not all headphone amps are the same
Interesting about the channel strips and headphones...I will have to try that. I start with the lead vocal mic through the system and the channel flat (for now).....I like that you cover 'comparative referencing' as I have always been a big supporter of that. Great video.
Dave your techniques are practical and badass. I cant wait to use some of these techniques at work
Thank you very much, Dave, for all these videos and the blog. Thank you for sharing because you answer a lot of question I was asking myself. Can't wait the next shows to get into your method !Thx !
Wow, man. I really love your vids, not only is it great information but you also articulate this very well.
thanks for that order a lot of people don't understand the way to Eq works on a live setting some want to use the graphic Eq on the master section to correct mic and channels good video!!!
I love doing sound even more than playing guitar. I love the toys!! I only wish I could afford more and had room for it if I did have more.
I was glad to see Dave Rat explain things in a very layman's way so people could understand it.
I also only wish I could mix for a large show....that would be a dream come true, now that I'm already 59!!
Years ago I was asked to mix Saturday night live but due to politics I guess, it never happened. I live mix for a recording session, and the guy asked me
great video Dave. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.
Thank you for explaining why my live mix recordings sound awesome.
👍
I was nodding my head along to this whole video…I guess I’ve been intuitively a member of The Rat School from the start - ESPECIALLY as it pertains to the last few moments regarding transferability and headphone line checks.
👍🤙👍
Great video, I've watched a few times. Love the idea of checking inputs on cans and referencing a CD for tuning the PA, very pro.
I love these videos and know they are old, but the irony of a sound video which actually has really bad sound on it, doesn't escape me!!
👍🔧👍
I'm so glad I found your channel. Some really helpful content. Thanks a bunch!
Brilliant! Never thought about using the headphones as a reference point. Gonna have to try that. Thanks!
i love the idea of comparing the cd through headphones to the PA - will try it for sure!
Ohhhh... THAT'S what the headphone jack is for! Definitely going to try this. Thanks!
awesome man! Thanks so much for taking the time to make these.I learned live sound on the fly,cause I was the only one willing to learn and run the sound systems for my friends lol. But these keep me on the right path and instill some confidence,thanks again!
awesome Dave most enlightening a big THUMBS UP !
Amazing advice, Dave. Thanks!
Great videos man, I've been doing live sound for years and still learn from these vids. more please.
Hey Dave, love the Videos and thank you for taking the time to make them. Maybe you could do a video or explain what goes into "tuning" a room at any given venue, when it comes to 1/3 EQs, Pink Noise, RTAs, crossovers (and recommended crossover points for drivers/horns/subs) etc.... If you can, I'd appreciate it so much! THANKS! -Nick
Its even simpler, as typically rooms with problems created by the superposition of a mix of direct and reflected signals cannot be 'corrected for' with EQ - thus you focus on dealing with the minimum phase isolated signal chain of, as Dave stated, mic and instrument signal that goes to the board.
Thank you for taking the time to make and share these Great videos!!
Thanks for this video.. I'm just starting out learning live mixing+recording and you were able to explain all of this seemingly complex stuff in a way that I could understand!
Thanks dave! Very clear and useful. Subscribed! Now I wish I could get my buddy to get rid of the smiley face EQ mentality. He always very carefully and seriously adjusts the smiley face into the board EQ. Then readjusts the channel EQ's every time. "More bass on my voice". ARGGHHHH!!!
Thanks for the tips, I always got taught to only mix and EQ by listening to the PA and I only use my headphones for PFLing. This is a very interesting approach that actually makes quite a lot of sense. Because there will be less corrective EQ for the PA on the EQ's on the channels. The method I used before were smaller venues and though it always sounded decent in the room but the stereo recording of the mix always missed stuff and over-exaggerated some instruments that didn't over-exaggerate them selfs acoustically in the room. Maybe this will change too with your method. I'd love to try it out sometime.
Thanks for all the videos! Even the 10 year old videos are still useful to this day!
The way to EQ a room with a GEQ is to listen for the "Wolf" frequencies. This is done by slowly bringing up the main vocal mic fader until it just starts to ring. find the frequency of the ring on the GEQ and lower the level of that frequency on the EQ. Now bring up the gain a little more and repeat. When the system is properly tuned to the room you should be able to excite the room with at least 4 different feedback points at the same time. They should be spread over the entire frequency band ie: a low frequency node, a mid frequency node, and upper mid and a high frequency node. If you can accomplish this you have successfully flattened the frequency response of that particular room. No pink noise or RTA required. The main EQ should never be used to change the tone of the system but rather to reduce the feedback nodes (wolf frequencies) which will assure that you can achieve maximum usable system gain without ringing or howling feedback.
Yep, that is a way to tune a room to a specific mic in a certain position or location. That does not take into account things like console out recording and tuning a system such that it can be transported to other locations with minimal alteration. Though that can be an effective way to easily get decent gain before feedback.
That makes a lot of sense. I'll try it! Thanks Dave.
I have acutally tried that, and i worked very well! I also foun out that it was alot easier when I delayd and time-alinged the headset with the PA...
brilliant video and advice!! Made my mind set of, " f**k, there's a lot to do" to a more organised mindset, and knowing exactly where i'm going. Thank You!
Super cool. And yes, I find it very surprising that using an audio reference point is not the norm, just something that is always part of the mixing process. Sort of like calibrating our ears the same as setting the gain.
hey Dave. great advice. I personally use steely Dan for reference, as they are notorious for recording everything thing flat.
thank you so much Dave , that was really helpful .
Absolutely digging these tutorials, Dave. Keep it up and thanks!!
oh man, so inspired!!! on a deep youtube dave rat rabbit hole
Wow! This method make so much sense to me. I love it & I'll apply it to my set up jobs.
Thanks.
Lots of good, sensible ideas and methods in there. Well done. HAGOS
Thank u Dave. Great in depth vid as always. I got to do a live show soon I'm gonna try to EQ tune the F.O.H to a CD. Thank u very much sir!
This is excellent! Thanks!
Some good tricks here, I'll definitely start using some of them. Thanks for doing this vids!
exactly. Hopefully I will get some info up on what I am working on with solving some stereo and comb filtering challenges for live reinforcement
So right and so simple , your Amazing Dave !
Wonderful explaination
You are awesome. Your tips really do help. keep it up dave, the puzzle pieces are coming together quickly as a new sound guy myself
Thanks for these great tips, but I don't think this method will work in small clubs. In such situations, we are dealing with partial amplification of instruments, as some are heard through the air (for example, cymbals). In my experience, the proportions in the raw mix listened to through headphones straight from the console are far from ideal, very often the vocals and kick drum are too exposed.
👍
dave, great info, simply you need a reference point , cd you know headfones you know, and of course good ears. you talk sense
LEGEND!!! Thanks for the vids Dave. Amazing blog too btw
@kravesound To solve Vocal/Drum Heavy issue, I either run the PA off of a matrix with Vocals and drums boosted a bit or run the recording off of a matrix with non vocal/drums instruments boosted. This solves the level issues while allowing an EQ reference recording to exist.
Dave I love your approach. You're awesome
nice vid, but dont forget that the sound in small venues is not only that whats coming out from the PA. with the channel eqs i usually try to get the right balance between acoustic sound and PA sound.
hi dave, love you vids and your straight forward easy to understand and common sense approach to live sound. if i ever win the lottery i would love to hire you to mix the wedding band i play in.
Thanks for the tip Dave!
Really helpful video many thanks.
@lenoxx89 Theoretically, yes. Though if set up correctly the alteration of the sound by the hardware should be negligible compared to the info it provides. More important is to make sure that there is no issues like distortion, noise, or other aspect t hat pollutes the readings. It is wise to actually listen to the the RTA mic to assure that what it is 'hearing' is clear and not tainted.
@readerwriter Depends on the headphones, PA volume and your ability to mentally factor out the club sound from the headphone sound. A bit of practice with some headphones that get loud and have good isolation should see positive results
@readerwriter
Small rooms are not the place to worry about pulling board tapes, unless you pull them from an alternate mix source. In a small room I only use phones to check for channel problems not for the mains mix. You have to 'ride the room' and use the FOH to balance and clarify whatever is hitting you from the stage.
It can also be helpful to get the artists to work with you instead of against you. A 10% reduction in stage volume can make all the different in the world.
great tips Dave,
although i must add that this method is not very suited for smaller venues where the stage sound is a big part of your mix and things like cymbals and cranked up guitar amps can really ruin the balance of your overall mix.
EQing the room using headphones is a brilliant idea though, i am so going to try that thnx
Very interesting. Gotta try out the headphone trick next time. Thanks
☺ I go though the same process. As technology has evolved, not much has changed with the setup and logic.
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What's the best process for "ringing out" a room? I find myself carefully edging up the master level, (mon. or main), until I hear something start to flare up, then back the master back down quickly, find that frequ on the EQ and pull it down. But inadvertently, something always gets away from me briefly and squeels. Any safer way to find those offending frequencies with a tihghter handle on levels? Thanks SO MUCH for your work! You are an excellent 'explainer'.
Hi Dave, I really love this advice and it makes it simple to me to follow the steps as you have laid them out, I respect you and I think you for sharing you knowledge with us ! Having said that, I mix mainly in small bars/ clubs 75 to 300 people, what I struggle with most in these rooms is Subwoofer placement, I use Two 18 inch subs, Can you end this debate for me once and for all ! Whats better, to place them side by side on one side of the stage or to place one on each side as you commonly see
Very very very informative. thanks a lot! made a whole lot of sense.
Oh my, it's my 22nd year of mixing them and 30th of working with them