I just got my close out 2++ today. In 50 years of messing w/ audio I've never been this blown away by a bit of kit out of the box. This tiny little thing is nøthing short of spectacular combined w/ Westone dual driver IEM. Warm and lush but superb detail retrieval. I'm hearing things I missed in old recordings.
Thanks so much Steve - you're unique, your descriptions form pictures in my mind - what a great way for first timers like me to experience 'tube sound' without wrecking the budget - so I have spontaneously ordered a unit :)) - more so, it is a joy that Shiit is offering a 230V version too and is shipping worldwide, even when it adds $50 shipping cost for delivery to Switzerland
@@Andrew-cp7mc Power numbers on paper and real-life performance are different. My Tascam UH-7000 puts out a "puny" 45mW RMS per channel at 32 ohms. That is weak already, and I have no idea how much less it puts out at 300 ohms, but it makes my HD 6XX sound big and alive. It even moves my power-hungry HIFIMAN HE 5XX planars with plenty of authority. They don't sound underpowered nor ever clip or distort. I had the older Vali 2 and it moved the HD 6XX as good as my Asgard 2. They just sounded different, not one better than the other. The newer Vali 2+ in this video puts out much more than the Vali 2; 1500mW per channel at 32 ohms (400mW at 300 ohms). That's more than enough to rock the HD 650/6XX. If you do want more, the Magni 3+ is even more powerful at lower ohm loads, and 410mW at 300 ohms, and costs less
@@ANSWERTHECALLOFJESUSCHRIST Thanks. To my ears, it sounded great with 6XX. I also use the Vali 2+ stack to power my Focal Clear, which also sounds great. Trying a different tube next to see if I can widen soundstage a tad with the Clear.
Nice review. You talked about 3 cans paired with the Vali 2. Rave reviews for the pairing with the 6xx. Is it a follow up video to find out how the Grado's & Sundara's did ?
Planar headphones usually don’t go very well with tube amps. I’m guessing the Sundara’s followed that trend and that’s why he didn’t mention it further.
I have the Vali 2 (not 2+), but personally I dislike the volume pot. I'd want something relay-stepped or a digital encoder. A Saga+ is definitely the way to go due to that alone.
Schiit sells replacements for $10 each should you ever need one. NOS equivalents start at about $15 and go way up for the rarities; newly made JJ and Electro-Harmonix sell for about $17-18.
Regarding the wall wart power supply, according to Schiit's press release it's, "All voltage rails are fully regulated, and the power supply is 100% linear, with no switching supplies anywhere inside or outside the chassis." "
If you can you should review the tube amplifier from Dayton audio. There are a couple tube amps from them. There is the hta 100bt and the smaller version the hta50bt. I am curious if they are any good especially at the price which is around $160.
AC linear power supplies don't seem uncommon for headphone amplifiers. IIRC my old X-Can v3 has a similar power connector and my Project Headbox from the early noughts has an 18V AC wall wart
Another awesome shirt, Steve; thanks for the review! Someone like yourself who has several sets of great headphones, and who can easily hear the difference between the two headphone amps in this review should really sample the other end of the market too. The wacky Absolute tube headphone amp from Manley has a ton of unusual features intended to furnish a lot of the tonal shifts you're enjoying and comment about in your report. It can be configured to suit the music, the headphones and the listener's preferences of how it all plays together. Be advised that the sun may burn out before a given listener has a chance to audition all the possible control settings that are available! The opposite of 'one size fits all' philosophy.
I own this. And yes, Steve, I think you nailed it. I like it even better as a preamp. It adds a real dimensionality to the music. It was obvious from the first time it hit the system. I'm using a Modi Multibit dac, and have tried it with both a tube and a class d amp. It helped both but the tube amp is really sweet with this. Only problem for me is I'm getting 90db pops as the relay clicks in on turn on. Still debating whether to return this....
Im thinking about getting modi multibit dac and the Vale +2 amp. Are you saying that this is what you have and using together will give u a warmer sound than say just using the multibit,plus great for the headphones as well. Thanks Bo Davis
Have Vali 1 + Modi 2 Multibit for my desktop setup. A fantastic combo! The only problem with Schiit is it's built like a shit, Rubber feet is falling of in no time due to a heat from this little boxes. Vali's rca out died after 2 years or so, but couldn't be bothered sending it back to USA from Europe for repair. Mind that I am talking about the original Vali and have no idea how different model 2+ may be but the first one has a sound to die for, pretty much how you described it. Used mainly with Bayerdynamic 1990 Pro and Sennheiser HD700.
Steve a big THANK YOU! I purchased a used and recently upgraded set of 2 Klipschorns and a LaScala on faith in your reviews. I did audition them before handing over the $ - they had the musicality and dynamics I have been searching for. I have been living with them now for 3 weeks and am VERY happy with the speakers. They do a great job as 2 channel for pure music and as the main speakers for my Auro 3D 11.2 home theater. WOW and thank you. (not Schitt related but I had to say thanks!)
I have a vali 2, with the modi. On my desk for headphones it sounds great! I also added a Tube Depot Tube Cube 7 amp with Klipsch RP-51 speakers on my desk and the vali sounds good as a little pre amp for my 10x10 office at work... Sounds great for a desktop system.
Great review of a wonderful little headphone amp. By the way, Schiit Audio just announced the Jotunheim 2, which co-founder / owner Jason Stoddard says he now uses instead of their Lyr 3 headphone amp for his own desktop setup
I am about to pull the trigger on the Schitt Vali 2+. I was just at AXPONA and listened to the Sundaras. Especially at the price point, I love them. I was a bit disappointed that you did not describe the sound of the amp with those Sundaras that you had in your hand on this review! I am a bit of a curmudgeon and consider myself “old school.“ I am not an engineer so all I really go by is my ears. I do not stream music and very rarely listen through my phone. I want to plug this amp into my REC out RCA jacks of my tube preamplifier. I primarily listen to my FM tube tuner (yes, some of us still really love FM!) and vinyl records. Sometimes I put in a CD. The Sundaras have a 94 DB efficiency rating and a relatively low 37 ohm resistance rating. I know that even with my preamp, when I switch to my turntable, I have to turn up my volume a bit to enjoy my LPs. I just returned another headphone amplifier (simple solid-state) as I could not achieve a decent volume level with my turntable. I am hoping that the Schitt will not only sound good, but will remedy the volume measure for my phono section. Do you have any thoughts you can share with me regarding the Sundaras with this little amp? Can I play with it and use the high or low setting and let my ears be the judge? The amp that I returned was rated at “>10mw“ and I felt that the power was simply insufficient. Can you share any thoughts/perspectives?! Thanks, Brian
I've listened to the Vali 2 at Schiit's retail store as a headphone amp. I do enjoy it. I am slowly getting into audio as if I'm there. Which is why I went with the Cambridge AXA25. I'm thinking about adding the Vali 2 to my vinyl setup. To make the music that I have in vinyl more engaging and life like. I'd love to hear the Schiit and Cambridge through my Klipsch Heresy speakers.
Very pleased with my Schiit, - Modius - Loki - Freya + , I would like Steve to do a review on the new transport when it arrives shortly , Hope a home tube amp is in the works...
Have you tried this with the Sennheiser 560s? I've recently got the 560s, it's my first pair of open-back headphones and I love them. Looking for an amp now and Z reviews mentioned the 560s sound best plugged into a tube amp
I got a Jotunheim recently and I absolutely love it, I use two DACs, a Xonar U3 (for its awesome bass boost) optical out into a Modi Multibit and then the Jotunheim out into my Beyerdynamic DT1990 Pros.
Steve. I just ran across something being sold on Ebay that could upend high end audio. BURSON is selling devices with replaceable high end opamps with little plastic holders on the opamp. A few years ago I noticed chip companies designing high end chips andvreplCedcsomebon a Linkwitz active crossover. Siegffied didn't think these would sound "better" but a good many of us heard a difference. Burson seems to be up to something interesting. Look for Burson v6 on Amazon. Can't vouch for the sound but could be interesting for sales.
Has anyone else bought one of the cheap ($40 - $50) tube preamps? Since getting the Suca t1 preamp Ive been amazed at the additional musicality / timbre / dynamics from the music. I can only imagine what a higher end preamp would deliver. Exciting stuff for a guy who though he's heard it all. :)
the vali has arrived, just before Christmas, what a joy - I am either biased from your review, or that little thing sounds really incredibly alive; and all with an affordable chain: spotify premium, monolith dac, vali2+, hifiman sundara - try 1995 chesky records, Sarah K., Tell me I'm not dreamin'; I like it a lot. BTW, the very short owner's manual is a smile to read :)
Looks nice. But at 1:48 you have summed up the total myth that is recorded music should should sound natural , as if your there etc etc , all recorded music will ever sound like at best is how the engineer on the day thought it should sound like at that moment in time. All we can ever hope for is to get close to the experience he or she had at that moment , a simple snap shot in time. Interesting video .
It's a fool's errand to try to reproduce an acoustic performance. The best we can do is to evoke our memory or imagination of that performance, in our head. And to do it with a level of distraction and annoyance we can tolerate.
I have never really taken measurements too seriously except in matching components. But personally I think a good tube amp in the mix (and it doesn't have to be fancy or expensive, just a good well designed and made circuit and the fun of NOS tube rolling) often adds a special flavouring, dynamics, musicality and magic that draws you in and does question what type of sound presentation we like and want. I personally like tube preamps because they are generally a bit cheaper for trying different tubes and last longer than power tubes.
Resurfacing this great review. I'm hoping to put this headphone amp/preamp between my turntable/phono preamp and my powered speaker (Sonos Play:5). I am wondering about the quality of sound I should expect when I'm using the Vali 2+ as a preamp to speakers/monitors. I understand that the tube will still impact the quality of the music. I'm wondering about whether the noise/distortion will be less pleasing coming across speakers than they were in your headphones.
I just made this comment over at Joe and Tell regarding the Schiit Freya tube amp, the recordings over the Freya make you feel like you are sitting in the audience.
I have a question - this comes with a 6BZ7 tube. But you state that a 6CG7 would work with this also. However, the 6CG7 has a different pinout than the 6BZ7. Wouldn't that cause a problem?
Quick question, if you prefered the 560s over the 6xx in your vid review a month ago, why did you still use the 6xx for this review? Is it because of familiarity from the longer usage of the 6xx?
Another very nice thing/feature about the Vali 2 is it makes are super nice "regular" preamplifier paired with a power amp. Only one input, of course, so I rig up one of those very inexpensive switch boxes to select various inputs such as CD player, FM tuner, etc. One function at a time for this though. Either you are using it as a headphone amp or you are using it as a preamp paired with your power amp. You can't do both things at once.
I'm using it the same way. I like it even more as a preamp than as a headphone amp. The staging and reality of the sound is even more impressive as a preamp. Using Monolith planar headphone and JBL Studio 580 speaker. I'm still in my trial period and am having a hard time on deciding to keep it. It has just a terrible turn on pop - about 90db!
That's a cool idea. I was looking at cheap tube preamps to use with my turntable, but being able to use the same amp for my headphones and my TT would be awesome.
At the affordable prices that Schiit has for its gear you can have a lot of fun trying out different gear without spending too much money. And if you don't like it used Schiit sells rather easily.
Steve enjoy your videos. Could you give me your opinion on this; on another video you stated running a source straight into a power amp, you felt some of the fullness, solidness is lost. I'm looking for a good pre amp under 500.00 Would the Vali2 work just as good as a pre amp.
Hi @Steve and others! , I'm a newbie to Hifi.... and about to buy my first headphones stack... I'm deciding between modi3 + loki + vali2+ or modi3 + loki + magni 3+.... i'm leaning towards the vali 2+ because of your review. but.... is it capable enough to drive my Hifiman Sundara? I heard on an another channel that the Sundara needs a lot of current (will google the term :) ) and i'm under the impression that the vali2+ has less "current" than the magni3+..... what do you think? what is a better match ?,.... the magni3+ or the vali2+ with the sundara? thanks a lot
Hi Steve, great material, reviews, thoughts & insights and most importantly FUN!! do keep up the good work - I've just subscribed to your channel... a Pair of Meze 99 Classics have just been delivered this very minute - exciting & so very keen to listn to them I must say the little tune at the start of your videos cunjures up thoughts of a 1960's/70's super hero TV series... a la Batman ;0) Alan @Norfolk, UK
What do you think about using the Vali 2 in a vinyl audio setup? I know I'm going to be using it as a headphone amplifier. But also interested in using it in my vinyl setup. I plan on picking it up at their Schiitr location they have here in Valencia.
Hi. I ve got a question. First u need to know that i own AirPods pro and listened to the sennheiser pxc 550 quite a lot but dont own them. I was never into hifi Hardware i just love to listen to musik. I want to upgrade from my AirPods to something better sounding. Those sennheisers sounded great but i want more / i dont need Bluetooth, anc,... on overears. I just want to listen to musik. How much do i have to spend for a good (better than the pxc550) pair of headphones? Do i need an amplifier? What would u recommend? Thanks!
@@poomuncherful Directly through Schiit $218.98 USD total including shipping ($69.98USD Covid 19 I say would of doubled shipping costs) Sent December 3, December 11 Departed TOKYO delivered December 18 2020
Wow, this is intriguing! Can I plug my iPhone 12 Mini into this and then listen to my iPhone through my home stereo system, via the AUX input in my receiver?
My god - I didn’t expect to hear an Anna von Hausswolff reference here! I have a turntable with a built in preamp, which I cannot override. As this is a hybrid preamp/amp, I guess it won’t be compatible with my system? (I’ve never heard of two preamps in an audio chain before…). Thanks so much for anyone’s help!
Buy one, I have the Schiit Freya, and OH MY GOD! It truly brings a new perspective on recordings, and music in general, like Steve stated, it puts you in the room. And, on edit, get a Loki for another $149, worth every penny, Steve reviewed it not long ago.
@@michaelwright1602 I'd love to find a used Freya Plus. I'm presently running a NAD 208 thx balanced amp and Emotiva XDA-2 balanced preamp/DAC. The nice thing about the Emotiva preamp is that I have the balanced outputs going to the power amp and the SE output going to the subwoofer, so I'd need the Freya to also have both outputs powered at the same time like the Emotiva's are.
The problem with stacking those small Schiit components is that you quickly end up with a collection of large, unwieldy, and unsightly wall warts to try to find places for. Personally, I’d rather sacrifice a few more square inches of desktop space and have all the electronics inside the unit.
Steve. Not sure if you heard this, or not. I think I read it in a review, and I think it was Jason that said it. Anyway, he said that at this point, he's heard so much nonsense about the switch being on the back. That he's pretty much resigned to never change it just to be a ball buster basically. So you should expect to be doing reach arounds for a long time unfortunately.
People get really hung up about the power switch on the back. I think it makes sense to have it there because that's where the power is. I got this amp and I love it. For $150 I'm having fun.
How did the Vali 2+ do with the Sundaras? Well, nevermind. I'll find out myself. I can't believe you talked me into buying this Schiit. You're a Schiitty guy, Steve! This'll be my first tube audio purchase since my NYAL Super-it.
@@tylerstravis I ended up going with a Vali 3 with the delta-sigma-dac. The multibit was on back order. Anyway, I've been doing some listening with the Sundaras, and the combo works great! Yes, the Vali is a tube input, but the output is solid state, and it drives the Sundaras just fine. I get plenty of volume on low gain. Compared to plugging into my laptop, the sound is warmer which pairs well with the Sundara sound. The sound stage is much more spacious, and from the midrange up it's like a veil of grit has been removed. I'm sure the sound will improve as the Lyr 3 burns in a bit. It's a big upgrade, as it should be. I've been listening to Mary by Patty Griffin, No Time To Die by Billie Ellish, One Voice by the Wailin Jennies, and I Scare Myself by Dan Hicks.
Is it Schiit like "it" or Schiit like "height"..? Also: How would the Vali 2 compare to using high-end headphones (Grado Sr80/Denon D5200) with say an old receiver like the Kenwood 8050?
I've heard people describe it as "basic," but I use it as a preamp with Vanatoo T0 speakers and a Cambridge Minx201 sub, and I love the combination. Near field, it sounds so good for the price.
I use a little 3 watt amp to power speakers for computer. Im not really needing a headphone amp and maybe this is a stupid question but do you think this would sound good as a preamp for my simple amp?
I've had the Vali 2 for about 4 years, and my favorite tube with it is JJ Electronic gold pin E88CC. Prefer over GE, Genelex, (gold lion), and Sylvania tubes. Warm and natural.
@@spiritualarchitect4276 Not necessarily. Valli needs a source, so if your source has a remote you could leave the Vali on a set volume level and control input volume with your source remote.
@@svalbard01 So I could plug the Vali into the back of a stereo amp, set the volume high, plug my headphones into the Vali and still use the main amplifier volume/remote to change volume in my headphones?
@@spiritualarchitect4276 Exactly, **if** your stereo amp has a pre-out (variable). If it only has fixed or record out, it won't work. And I wouldn't necessarily set the Vali all the way high (if that's what you meant), what I would do is turn your source up all the way, then turn the Vali volume up as loud as you'd possibly want it. That way if source is accidently maxed out, you won't blow up your ears/headphones:)
@@svalbard01 Thanks for your comment, but I am still confused. I want to be able to control volume from my sitting position across the room from my equipment. It sounds like you ae saying that the Vali still controls the volume, and that you have to manually turn the Vali knob to work the volume. Meaning the remote control volume is no good?
If the Vali sounds more there ... what is present that measurements do not reveal? If there is something heard with the Vali and as in as live performance that is missing in the solid state - is that then a form of distortion filtering? Measurements that are missing data are flawed.
I totally agree. My experience with the best measured DAC today the Matrix Saber-X pro MQA. It was lifeless. I though my system was a terrible miss match. Changed many components. Same results. Then I by chance switched to the internal dac of my Blue Sound node 2. Holy cow. The system bloomed with life. I sold the DAC. Lesson learned.
Not to nitpick, but there's quite a few DACs out there that measure better. According to that ASR site anyway. But really they're basically all the same past a certain threshold. Most modern DACs have noise, and distortion, but it's so low. We're not able to hear it. Even the DACs that measure near the bottom of the pack included. And they don't all sound bad. I own a Sabaj D5 which is right up there with the Matrix measurement wise, and it's very smooth and musical. I'm listening to it right now. It's very good. In fact I've read, and seen many reviews about that Matrix DAC, and not one of them said it was lifeless. Thomas and Stereo just gave a rave review of it yesterday, and Sandu at Soundnews loved it. His reference DAC is the big dog Matrix actually. I'm quite sure that's what you heard, but I'm just not sure the DAC is really to blame. There's way too many variables in a HiFi setup to just blame the DAC with no actual proof. Especially one that do many other people have spoken so highly of. It could easily be a mismatch in your system. The room. Cables. Or many things. I think to definitively say it was the DACs cause, and that is truly lifeless. One would need to do some very, very thorough testing. To be 100% positive the DAC sounds bad itself. You would have to do like a reviewer does, and swap tons of gear. Plus have a definite reference setup for comparison. Plus take it to other people houses, and try it in their setups too really. To be fair I've even owned equipment I thought was horrible at first. Only to pull it out of the closet 5 months later, because I need it temporarily, until I get something else. And end up falling in love with it the 2nd time around. Never ended up buying anything else to replace it, and wondered WTF I was thinking the 1st time around??? One I can remember off the top of my head was the Holographic Audio Pre Twenty Five. Can't remember the different setups, but it stayed in the 2nd setup for a long while, until I got a Hypex amp, and felt it needed a tube preamp instead. But I still own it. Either way. I assure you from experience that how something measures won't tell you very much about how it sounds at all. And that for every anecdotal story that makes you think something is one way there's a bunch of others that will directly contradict it, and point to it being the opposite way. Of course none of these are facts. They're just stories of people's experiences. This is why I personally try not to talk bad about stuff that's still being sold. It's really not fair to the people that are trying to make a living, and feed their family from the profits of these devices. I prefer to let people find out on their own what they sound like in their system. And if they don't like it then. They can return it. Or sell it. Speaking of which. What are you going to do with that DAC? Because I'm interested in trying it myself. Unfortunately my job is closed down because of Covid for a while, but if you were selling and the price was right. I might just have to break into my savings. Honestly though. If you can't return it. I recommend holding onto it for a while if you can afford to, and try it again later. You might get a surprise. Anyway, sorry for the essay, and have a great day. ✌️
@@amb3cog Or, in the words of Justin Wilson: "I wanna tell you about four or three things. They're not actually *true,* they're just things that happened." 😆
Ronald. Just noticed you said you sold it. So forget that last paragraph I guess. But I also noticed something that makes me think. Were you using the optical out from the Node 2 to the Matrix? Because if so. That very well could have been the root of your problem right there. The digital out on the Node 2 is very limited. Even the new 2i is too. Very low bit/sampling rate, and no MQA either. Most people seem to have no issues with the digital out on them really, but I've had issues with optical cords myself, and coaxial too. That really put a blanket over the sound. I've also seen bad optical jacks also. The source is very, and I mean VERY important with digital. Just like analog, because it is really an analog signal. I couldn't believe the difference in sound my music server made, compared to my laptop. It was as if I bought a new $1000, or better tube preamp for my system! Just something to think on. ✌️
I have the original Vali 2 with an orange globe 6dj8 acting as a pre to my Vidar driving my RP-600M. Why? Because its what I had lying around. But it works pretty well.
Steve, how did the Sundara's fare with the Vali 2+? Unusual choice. BTW everyone calls them Sun dara. The correct Sanskrit pronunciation is Soon dara (means beautiful).
@@tylerstravis heard it in my local store and its pretty awesome. I have a sundara and dont have any amp at the moment as i sold my jds atom. But listening it o the pc it's not what i heard from store with the vali. As what steve describes it brings you in the music it's like you were actually there. Dont get me wrong the sundara sounds fantastic as is but with the vali it became a different headphone in a good way lol
QUESTION: Is inserting a Vali 2 *in the chain* between solid-state preamp and power amp a good way to try out "tube sound" on a system? (There's no way I'm going back to tube power output stages.) Does anyone out there have real experience with this?
I'm currently streaming Amazon HD music (I no longer have any CD's or LP's) from my iPhone through a Dragonfly Cobalt into a Schiit Jotunheim (you recommended the Jotunheim and it was a GREAT upgrade [thanks!]) and then listen on a pair of Hifiman HE400i's. This sounds great after adding the Jotunheim, but now I have an additional $300-400 windfall that I can use to improve even further. When asked the guys at Schiit they recommended perhaps adding a Modius DAC, I was wondering if upgrading the headphones (maybe the Sundaras) might be a good way to go as well. Just curious about your opinion. I have a very eclectic music library - and love everything in your samplers.
Hi Jay, I jut thought I'd add my two cents. I own two pieces of Schiit, a Fulla 3 (heaphone dac/amp with a mic input, essentially for gaming on my computer) and the Modius. I love them both. I run my computer into the Fulla and the Modius both. The Fulla sits on my desk, while the Modius is about 10 feet away and also has my dvd/cd player running into it. The Fulla I can also run into a powered sub (a 15 yr old Logitech model which I don't remember the name of, 20 watt model at most) that has outputs for 2 speakers. I got rid of the Logitech speakers and replaced them with a pair of Realistic Solo 103's that have Fostex 103 full range drivers in them. When I play RUclips music(admittedly not hifi) they sound amazing. When I have the speakers positioned correctly, they disappear and the sound comes from behind my monitor. There's a depth and width to the sound, and the clarity is unbeatable for the price (not much as the 103's were free, the Logitech had been paid for 15 years ago, and the Fulla, I got a B stock one, for $79 instead of the $99). Yes, I'm frugal. Now as for the Modius, depending upon the circumstances, I will also run music from RUclips and cd's through it into a pair of DCM CX-27's or a pair of Cambridge Audio Aero 2's. What really sold me on the Modius was when I played (Sittin' On) The dock of the bay by Otis Redding. Compared to just playing it through the internal dac on the dvd player, the definition of the sound is night and day. The sound of the "bay" is where the difference comes in. The ocean and seagulls are right there with you. With the internal dac, not so much. As said above somewhere, how each song is engineered also plays a huge roll. I received a Michael Jackson Japanese import cd, containing everything from his Jackson five days all the way to his last recordings, and playing it through the Modius is just pure joy for me. The combination of the Modius and the engineering is magic. I've been quite happy with my purchases from Schiit and certainly would not hesitate to buy from them again. I think I'll be getting a Vali at some point to use with it's pre-outs into my integrated. Long winded, but I hope this helps. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Hello sir, why do you need the Dragonfly Cobalt into a Schiit Jotunheim? I m trying to build a good system using Amazon HD and the iphone as well, I have it connected to an IFI hid dac and AT a990z or ad700x
@@pr8835 You can add either the Modi or Modi Multibit or their Mani phono preamp inside of the Jotunheim for the same (Modi) or less than (Multibit or Mani) then you'd pay for them separately.
Most computer built in sound cards sound bad cause all the interference inside the computer. They are also not the best quality. you can hear poping and static with good head phones. A good external DAC and AMP will have much lower noise floor. You should hear nothing when the volume is up `` and no signal is going through your system. This is accomplished by running usb from your computer to the DAC. The source to the dac is not influenced by your computers sound card eliminating any noise and crappy processing. I have a 400 dollar mobo and the schitt sounds better. You don't need an external dac you can run a signal straight from your sound card output into any exteranl amp . Most dacs also can take multiple input sources as well. Schit Modi takes USB, OPTICAL and Coaxial. Also DACS can read higher bit rate music without messing with computer settings. Al in all I bought the Schitt Hersey amp cause i could not get the power i needed to run my headphones from my Computer. I bought the dac cause i wanted all sound processing done outside my computer to remove any static and have a low noise floor. Schitt Vali is marketed as headphone AMP. You probably need a little more power depending on speakers. You need to look at the specs of your speakers and the specs of Vali on Schitts web site.
Could someone explain to me what is the difference between the headphone out and rca out ports on vali2? I understand one is a headphone amp out and the other is a preamp out, but how are those 2 outputs different, signal wise?
I just got my close out 2++ today. In 50 years of messing w/ audio I've never been this blown away by a bit of kit out of the box. This tiny little thing is nøthing short of spectacular combined w/ Westone dual driver IEM. Warm and lush but superb detail retrieval. I'm hearing things I missed in old recordings.
That's awesome, thanks for letting me know.
"It's a reach-around affair."
Schiit needs to put that on a t-shirt.
It's good to see that Steve is having fun, and that I'm not the only one who will never grow up. 😁
YES.
Who doesn't like a good reach-around??🤣🍻
🤦♀️😂😂😂🤩
i dont get it...
Why oh why did I decide to go down the audio rabbit hole. So many options and even better so many good ones.
Thanks so much Steve - you're unique, your descriptions form pictures in my mind - what a great way for first timers like me to experience 'tube sound' without wrecking the budget - so I have spontaneously ordered a unit :)) - more so, it is a joy that Shiit is offering a 230V version too and is shipping worldwide, even when it adds $50 shipping cost for delivery to Switzerland
Watching this has helped me decide on dac/amp combo to pair with the HD6XX. Thanks!
@@SchuylerBatdorf If not vali 2, what is better budget level amp?
@@Andrew-cp7mc Power numbers on paper and real-life performance are different. My Tascam UH-7000 puts out a "puny" 45mW RMS per channel at 32 ohms. That is weak already, and I have no idea how much less it puts out at 300 ohms, but it makes my HD 6XX sound big and alive. It even moves my power-hungry HIFIMAN HE 5XX planars with plenty of authority. They don't sound underpowered nor ever clip or distort.
I had the older Vali 2 and it moved the HD 6XX as good as my Asgard 2. They just sounded different, not one better than the other.
The newer Vali 2+ in this video puts out much more than the Vali 2; 1500mW per channel at 32 ohms (400mW at 300 ohms). That's more than enough to rock the HD 650/6XX. If you do want more, the Magni 3+ is even more powerful at lower ohm loads, and 410mW at 300 ohms, and costs less
@@ANSWERTHECALLOFJESUSCHRIST Thanks. To my ears, it sounded great with 6XX. I also use the Vali 2+ stack to power my Focal Clear, which also sounds great. Trying a different tube next to see if I can widen soundstage a tad with the Clear.
Nice review. You talked about 3 cans paired with the Vali 2. Rave reviews for the pairing with the 6xx. Is it a follow up video to find out how the Grado's & Sundara's did ?
Would love to hear your impressions of the pairings with the other headphones as well, especially the Sundaras. Thanks for the great reviews!
Bump. Really want to hear how it sounded with the Sundaras.
Planar headphones usually don’t go very well with tube amps. I’m guessing the Sundara’s followed that trend and that’s why he didn’t mention it further.
Oh my, impressionist ART as a performance descriptive. Brilliant
Tony in Venice
Steve: thanks! Another useful video; gear, comparisons and recordings! Thx.
I bought a magni 3 a month ago and another a week later and this still intrigues me. Two pairs of mani's, as well. Can't get enough schiit👍
Any opinion Steve on using the Vali 2 (or the Brooklyn for that matter) as a preamp with a power amp and stand mount speakers?
I have the Vali 2 (not 2+), but personally I dislike the volume pot. I'd want something relay-stepped or a digital encoder. A Saga+ is definitely the way to go due to that alone.
Schiit Stack w/ Vali 2 arriving any day now. Can't wait to hear it with my Vanatoos
I hope you bought a Loki, once you have one in your Schiit stack... Nirvana.
beware.... sounds incredible but I've had costly issues with mine, Just saying.
A wonderful, and valuable review. I've become more aware about the sound of the vacuum tube; money spent toward a worthwhile, reasonable purpose.
Schiit sells replacements for $10 each should you ever need one. NOS equivalents start at about $15 and go way up for the rarities; newly made JJ and Electro-Harmonix sell for about $17-18.
Regarding the wall wart power supply, according to Schiit's press release it's, "All voltage rails are fully regulated, and the power supply is 100% linear, with no switching supplies anywhere inside or outside the chassis." "
If you can you should review the tube amplifier from Dayton audio. There are a couple tube amps from them. There is the hta 100bt and the smaller version the hta50bt. I am curious if they are any good especially at the price which is around $160.
AC linear power supplies don't seem uncommon for headphone amplifiers. IIRC my old X-Can v3 has a similar power connector and my Project Headbox from the early noughts has an 18V AC wall wart
Another awesome shirt, Steve; thanks for the review! Someone like yourself who has several sets of great headphones, and who can easily hear the difference between the two headphone amps in this review should really sample the other end of the market too. The wacky Absolute tube headphone amp from Manley has a ton of unusual features intended to furnish a lot of the tonal shifts you're enjoying and comment about in your report. It can be configured to suit the music, the headphones and the listener's preferences of how it all plays together. Be advised that the sun may burn out before a given listener has a chance to audition all the possible control settings that are available! The opposite of 'one size fits all' philosophy.
Really like your shirt! I’m a Schiit supporter as I have a Bifrost 2. Btw, I love you like “The Cheapaudioman”!
Add drinking spirits for even more impressionistic vibe.
Very underated aspect
I own this. And yes, Steve, I think you nailed it. I like it even better as a preamp. It adds a real dimensionality to the music. It was obvious from the first time it hit the system. I'm using a Modi Multibit dac, and have tried it with both a tube and a class d amp. It helped both but the tube amp is really sweet with this. Only problem for me is I'm getting 90db pops as the relay clicks in on turn on. Still debating whether to return this....
Can you elaborate please on the 90db? Are you taking about when your solid state relay clicks during power up??
Im thinking about getting modi multibit dac and the Vale +2 amp. Are you saying that this is what you have and using together will give u a warmer sound than say just using the multibit,plus great for the headphones as well. Thanks Bo Davis
Have Vali 1 + Modi 2 Multibit for my desktop setup. A fantastic combo! The only problem with Schiit is it's built like a shit, Rubber feet is falling of in no time due to a heat from this little boxes. Vali's rca out died after 2 years or so, but couldn't be bothered sending it back to USA from Europe for repair. Mind that I am talking about the original Vali and have no idea how different model 2+ may be but the first one has a sound to die for, pretty much how you described it. Used mainly with Bayerdynamic 1990 Pro and Sennheiser HD700.
Steve a big THANK YOU! I purchased a used and recently upgraded set of 2 Klipschorns and a LaScala on faith in your reviews. I did audition them before handing over the $ - they had the musicality and dynamics I have been searching for. I have been living with them now for 3 weeks and am VERY happy with the speakers. They do a great job as 2 channel for pure music and as the main speakers for my Auro 3D 11.2 home theater. WOW and thank you. (not Schitt related but I had to say thanks!)
I have a vali 2, with the modi. On my desk for headphones it sounds great! I also added a Tube Depot Tube Cube 7 amp with Klipsch RP-51 speakers on my desk and the vali sounds good as a little pre amp for my 10x10 office at work... Sounds great for a desktop system.
Great review of a wonderful little headphone amp. By the way, Schiit Audio just announced the Jotunheim 2, which co-founder / owner Jason Stoddard says he now uses instead of their Lyr 3 headphone amp for his own desktop setup
I am about to pull the trigger on the Schitt Vali 2+. I was just at AXPONA and listened to the Sundaras. Especially at the price point, I love them. I was a bit disappointed that you did not describe the sound of the amp with those Sundaras that you had in your hand on this review! I am a bit of a curmudgeon and consider myself “old school.“ I am not an engineer so all I really go by is my ears. I do not stream music and very rarely listen through my phone. I want to plug this amp into my REC out RCA jacks of my tube preamplifier. I primarily listen to my FM tube tuner (yes, some of us still really love FM!) and vinyl records. Sometimes I put in a CD. The Sundaras have a 94 DB efficiency rating and a relatively low 37 ohm resistance rating. I know that even with my preamp, when I switch to my turntable, I have to turn up my volume a bit to enjoy my LPs. I just returned another headphone amplifier (simple solid-state) as I could not achieve a decent volume level with my turntable. I am hoping that the Schitt will not only sound good, but will remedy the volume measure for my phono section. Do you have any thoughts you can share with me regarding the Sundaras with this little amp? Can I play with it and use the high or low setting and let my ears be the judge? The amp that I returned was rated at “>10mw“ and I felt that the power was simply insufficient. Can you share any thoughts/perspectives?! Thanks, Brian
I've been under the impression that the magic of valves is the way they distort, soft vs. Clip, so 1000x magic?
so how bad was the Sundara on the Vali ? 😁
I've listened to the Vali 2 at Schiit's retail store as a headphone amp. I do enjoy it. I am slowly getting into audio as if I'm there. Which is why I went with the Cambridge AXA25. I'm thinking about adding the Vali 2 to my vinyl setup. To make the music that I have in vinyl more engaging and life like. I'd love to hear the Schiit and Cambridge through my Klipsch Heresy speakers.
Very pleased with my Schiit, - Modius - Loki - Freya + , I would like Steve to do a review on the new transport when it arrives shortly , Hope a home tube amp is in the works...
Have you tried this with the Sennheiser 560s? I've recently got the 560s, it's my first pair of open-back headphones and I love them. Looking for an amp now and Z reviews mentioned the 560s sound best plugged into a tube amp
I got a Jotunheim recently and I absolutely love it, I use two DACs, a Xonar U3 (for its awesome bass boost) optical out into a Modi Multibit and then the Jotunheim out into my Beyerdynamic DT1990 Pros.
Did you mod your 1990 pros to balanced?
Steve. I just ran across something being sold on Ebay that could upend high end audio. BURSON is selling devices with replaceable high end opamps with little plastic holders on the opamp. A few years ago I noticed chip companies designing high end chips andvreplCedcsomebon a Linkwitz active crossover. Siegffied didn't think these would sound "better" but a good many of us heard a difference. Burson seems to be up to something interesting. Look for Burson v6 on Amazon. Can't vouch for the sound but could be interesting for sales.
High end integrated chips designed for high end audio is what I meant.
Has anyone else bought one of the cheap ($40 - $50) tube preamps? Since getting the Suca t1 preamp Ive been amazed at the additional musicality / timbre / dynamics from the music. I can only imagine what a higher end preamp would deliver. Exciting stuff for a guy who though he's heard it all. :)
I picked up a little Nobsound Ns-083 (?) and replaced the tubes with GE tubes. It sounds fantastic. 50 bucks.
the vali has arrived, just before Christmas, what a joy - I am either biased from your review, or that little thing sounds really incredibly alive; and all with an affordable chain: spotify premium, monolith dac, vali2+, hifiman sundara - try 1995 chesky records, Sarah K., Tell me I'm not dreamin'; I like it a lot. BTW, the very short owner's manual is a smile to read :)
Looks nice. But at 1:48 you have summed up the total myth that is recorded music should should sound natural , as if your there etc etc , all recorded music will ever sound like at best is how the engineer on the day thought it should sound like at that moment in time.
All we can ever hope for is to get close to the experience he or she had at that moment , a simple snap shot in time.
Interesting video .
Yeah, people mostly want sound to "colored" how they prefer. Few things have ever been mastered in a truthfull way.
It's a fool's errand to try to reproduce an acoustic performance. The best we can do is to evoke our memory or imagination of that performance, in our head. And to do it with a level of distraction and annoyance we can tolerate.
Awesome review! Would you recommend this over the Asgard 3 for an HD6XX? Trying to decide between the two.
If Schiit made a product called the "Creek", I'd buy it!
If Schiit made 6’ tall, black, electrostatic speakers called the Bébé, my wife would let me put them in the living room!
This is the most clever comment that you've ever made in your life.
The could partner with Creek... Sorry... **should** partner with Creek
@@svalbard01 maybe they should add a remote called the Paddle...?
@@erikdam8850 Or to save money, you could just download a free app so that you could order the system without a paddle?
I have never really taken measurements too seriously except in matching components. But personally I think a good tube amp in the mix (and it doesn't have to be fancy or expensive, just a good well designed and made circuit and the fun of NOS tube rolling) often adds a special flavouring, dynamics, musicality and magic that draws you in and does question what type of sound presentation we like and want.
I personally like tube preamps because they are generally a bit cheaper for trying different tubes and last longer than power tubes.
Resurfacing this great review. I'm hoping to put this headphone amp/preamp between my turntable/phono preamp and my powered speaker (Sonos Play:5). I am wondering about the quality of sound I should expect when I'm using the Vali 2+ as a preamp to speakers/monitors. I understand that the tube will still impact the quality of the music. I'm wondering about whether the noise/distortion will be less pleasing coming across speakers than they were in your headphones.
I just made this comment over at Joe and Tell regarding the Schiit Freya tube amp, the recordings over the Freya make you feel like you are sitting in the audience.
Ah! meant to say - I'm now thinking about experimenting with the Shiit Vali 2+ Tube Amp next... Alan
Another GREAT shirt! Fabric from Ghana! Maybe Woodin in Osu in Accra? LOVE it!
Oh, and headphone review was good too...
Hi Steve,
Just wondering, did it drive the Grado ok.
Thanks for the review.
This might also double as a tube buffer in a speaker system through the pre-outs. Not a bad price.
"It's a reach around..." Oh my! Now that's an unexpected feature. 😲
Well they are based in California. 😉
He-he-he!
It's just polite to do a reach around.
I have a question - this comes with a 6BZ7 tube. But you state that a 6CG7 would work with this also. However, the 6CG7 has a different pinout than the 6BZ7. Wouldn't that cause a problem?
Sorry I might've made a mistake, please direct your questions to Schiit.
Quick question, if you prefered the 560s over the 6xx in your vid review a month ago, why did you still use the 6xx for this review? Is it because of familiarity from the longer usage of the 6xx?
Same question 🙋♀️
Affordable Schiit for Everyone!!!!
imagine they made one with a choice to switch between solid and tube ,id buy one and extra inputs please
Enjoyed your live Stream yesterday. Thanks Steve..
LOL :) I, too, wish my Magni, Modi and Loki had the on/off switch on the front panel..
Could you run them in to a high end switched power strip, then kill the power that way?
Wild shirt Steve.
Reminds me to get out some of my 1980s Mambo Loud Shirts for the festive season.
Another very nice thing/feature about the Vali 2 is it makes are super nice "regular" preamplifier paired with a power amp. Only one input, of course, so I rig up one of those very inexpensive switch boxes to select various inputs such as CD player, FM tuner, etc.
One function at a time for this though. Either you are using it as a headphone amp or you are using it as a preamp paired with your power amp. You can't do both things at once.
I'm using it the same way. I like it even more as a preamp than as a headphone amp. The staging and reality of the sound is even more impressive as a preamp. Using Monolith planar headphone and JBL Studio 580 speaker. I'm still in my trial period and am having a hard time on deciding to keep it. It has just a terrible turn on pop - about 90db!
That's a cool idea. I was looking at cheap tube preamps to use with my turntable, but being able to use the same amp for my headphones and my TT would be awesome.
Bravo! Thank you for the review. I'll be adding this to my desktop soon!
love that schitt and like the power switch on the back
"Today is all about this little piece of Schiit" ahahha nice one
How do you think this would pair up with the newer sennheiser hd560s? Low impedance similar to the grados.
At the affordable prices that Schiit has for its gear you can have a lot of fun trying out different gear without spending too much money. And if you don't like it used Schiit sells rather easily.
Steve enjoy your videos. Could you give me your opinion on this; on another video you stated running a source straight into a power amp, you felt some of the fullness, solidness is lost. I'm looking for a good pre amp under 500.00 Would the Vali2 work just as good as a pre amp.
Hi @Steve and others! , I'm a newbie to Hifi.... and about to buy my first headphones stack... I'm deciding between modi3 + loki + vali2+ or modi3 + loki + magni 3+.... i'm leaning towards the vali 2+ because of your review. but.... is it capable enough to drive my Hifiman Sundara? I heard on an another channel that the Sundara needs a lot of current (will google the term :) ) and i'm under the impression that the vali2+ has less "current" than the magni3+..... what do you think? what is a better match ?,.... the magni3+ or the vali2+ with the sundara? thanks a lot
Another good review Steve.
Great review! Any chance you could get the Lyr 3 in to compare with the Vali 2? And how's that Grado? Does that sound good with the tubes? Cheers!
Hi Steve, great material, reviews, thoughts & insights and most importantly FUN!! do keep up the good work - I've just subscribed to your channel... a Pair of Meze 99 Classics have just been delivered this very minute - exciting & so very keen to listn to them
I must say the little tune at the start of your videos cunjures up thoughts of a 1960's/70's super hero TV series... a la Batman ;0) Alan @Norfolk, UK
What do you think about using the Vali 2 in a vinyl audio setup? I know I'm going to be using it as a headphone amplifier. But also interested in using it in my vinyl setup. I plan on picking it up at their Schiitr location they have here in Valencia.
Hi. I ve got a question. First u need to know that i own AirPods pro and listened to the sennheiser pxc 550 quite a lot but dont own them. I was never into hifi Hardware i just love to listen to musik. I want to upgrade from my AirPods to something better sounding. Those sennheisers sounded great but i want more / i dont need Bluetooth, anc,... on overears. I just want to listen to musik. How much do i have to spend for a good (better than the pxc550) pair of headphones? Do i need an amplifier? What would u recommend?
Thanks!
So glad my one arrives this week to NZ.
Did you buy directly through schiit? How was the shipping costs? Cheers from a fellow kiwi
@@poomuncherful Directly through Schiit $218.98 USD total including shipping ($69.98USD Covid 19 I say would of doubled shipping costs)
Sent December 3,
December 11 Departed TOKYO
delivered December 18 2020
Wow, this is intriguing! Can I plug my iPhone 12 Mini into this and then listen to my iPhone through my home stereo system, via the AUX input in my receiver?
👍💝💝❤️Thank you Steve that’s a great review as always I’m amazed you could get such good stuff for so little money nowadays
My god - I didn’t expect to hear an Anna von Hausswolff reference here! I have a turntable with a built in preamp, which I cannot override. As this is a hybrid preamp/amp, I guess it won’t be compatible with my system? (I’ve never heard of two preamps in an audio chain before…). Thanks so much for anyone’s help!
I'd like to try this amp just to hear some tube sound. My system is, to my ears, stellar, but it's all solid state.
Buy one, I have the Schiit Freya, and OH MY GOD! It truly brings a new perspective on recordings, and music in general, like Steve stated, it puts you in the room. And, on edit, get a Loki for another $149, worth every penny, Steve reviewed it not long ago.
@@michaelwright1602 I'd love to find a used Freya Plus. I'm presently running a NAD 208 thx balanced amp and Emotiva XDA-2 balanced preamp/DAC. The nice thing about the Emotiva preamp is that I have the balanced outputs going to the power amp and the SE output going to the subwoofer, so I'd need the Freya to also have both outputs powered at the same time like the Emotiva's are.
Is it a double pentode? Does it have a transformer? Did you try a turntable as a source?
I just purchased this cheap Schitt yesterday.
The problem with stacking those small Schiit components is that you quickly end up with a collection of large, unwieldy, and unsightly wall warts to try to find places for. Personally, I’d rather sacrifice a few more square inches of desktop space and have all the electronics inside the unit.
Agreed, and I have experienced this myself. I would really love a combined unit.
Those are klipsch in the background right? Which ones? The cornwalls?
Steve. Not sure if you heard this, or not. I think I read it in a review, and I think it was Jason that said it. Anyway, he said that at this point, he's heard so much nonsense about the switch being on the back. That he's pretty much resigned to never change it just to be a ball buster basically. So you should expect to be doing reach arounds for a long time unfortunately.
i love that the switch is on theback
"The ineffable magic of valves"
- Anthony Michaelson
Great, What do I do with my original Schit Vali 2 (non plus) HP amp? Hope they’ll trade in this awesome Schit.
People get really hung up about the power switch on the back. I think it makes sense to have it there because that's where the power is. I got this amp and I love it. For $150 I'm having fun.
...so it says + headphone amp/preamp,may i use it to drive the crown xls 1502? Do you recomend that?
How did the Vali 2+ do with the Sundaras? Well, nevermind. I'll find out myself. I can't believe you talked me into buying this Schiit. You're a Schiitty guy, Steve! This'll be my first tube audio purchase since my NYAL Super-it.
Is that a Great Pyreneese?
@@HareDeLune Yes.
@@peterdesmidt8742
I thought so!
Friend of mine has one. Great dogs, indeed. : )
Report back! I have a pair of Sundaras and 6xx, but understand Planars rarely work well with tubes. Of course, this is a Hybrid.
@@tylerstravis I ended up going with a Vali 3 with the delta-sigma-dac. The multibit was on back order. Anyway, I've been doing some listening with the Sundaras, and the combo works great! Yes, the Vali is a tube input, but the output is solid state, and it drives the Sundaras just fine. I get plenty of volume on low gain. Compared to plugging into my laptop, the sound is warmer which pairs well with the Sundara sound. The sound stage is much more spacious, and from the midrange up it's like a veil of grit has been removed. I'm sure the sound will improve as the Lyr 3 burns in a bit. It's a big upgrade, as it should be. I've been listening to Mary by Patty Griffin, No Time To Die by Billie Ellish, One Voice by the Wailin Jennies, and I Scare Myself by Dan Hicks.
Is it Schiit like "it" or Schiit like "height"..? Also: How would the Vali 2 compare to using high-end headphones (Grado Sr80/Denon D5200) with say an old receiver like the Kenwood 8050?
Best company name ever.
How do these separate DACs / Amps compare to something like a AV Receiver such as a Denon 3400H?
Sorry, new to this Schiit...
@audiophiliac Hey Steve, But how did the Grados, and the Sundaras perform with it.
If I use Schiit vali 2 as a pre amp. Is it good?
I've heard people describe it as "basic," but I use it as a preamp with Vanatoo T0 speakers and a Cambridge Minx201 sub, and I love the combination. Near field, it sounds so good for the price.
24V B+? That is kind of low even for an ECC88. I wonder if the low gain uses a touch of local FB (plate to grid perchance).
Thanks for this review! I’d be very interested in a comparison of this Vali and Schiit’s Valhalla and Mjolnir.
I bought a Vali2 because of this review. Absolutely no regrets! BTW paired with a Modi3.
So using the Vali2+ means you can no longer use a remote control to change VOLUME?
@@spiritualarchitect4276 yooo i see you need help with this question, EMAIL SCHIIT on their website. They respond very quickly.
I use a little 3 watt amp to power speakers for computer. Im not really needing a headphone amp and maybe this is a stupid question but do you think this would sound good as a preamp for my simple amp?
Have you heard the ps fr30 speaker? Is it good?
I've had the Vali 2 for about 4 years, and my favorite tube with it is JJ Electronic gold pin E88CC. Prefer over GE, Genelex, (gold lion), and Sylvania tubes. Warm and natural.
So using the Vali2+ means you can no longer use a remote control to change VOLUME?
@@spiritualarchitect4276 Not necessarily. Valli needs a source, so if your source has a remote you could leave the Vali on a set volume level and control input volume with your source remote.
@@svalbard01 So I could plug the Vali into the back of a stereo amp, set the volume high, plug my headphones into the Vali and still use the main amplifier volume/remote to change volume in my headphones?
@@spiritualarchitect4276 Exactly, **if** your stereo amp has a pre-out (variable). If it only has fixed or record out, it won't work. And I wouldn't necessarily set the Vali all the way high (if that's what you meant), what I would do is turn your source up all the way, then turn the Vali volume up as loud as you'd possibly want it. That way if source is accidently maxed out, you won't blow up your ears/headphones:)
@@svalbard01 Thanks for your comment, but I am still confused. I want to be able to control volume from my sitting position across the room from my equipment. It sounds like you ae saying that the Vali still controls the volume, and that you have to manually turn the Vali knob to work the volume. Meaning the remote control volume is no good?
If the Vali sounds more there ... what is present that measurements do not reveal?
If there is something heard with the Vali and as in as live performance that is missing in the solid state - is that then a form of distortion filtering?
Measurements that are missing data are flawed.
I totally agree. My experience with the best measured DAC today the Matrix Saber-X pro MQA. It was lifeless. I though my system was a terrible miss match. Changed many components. Same results. Then I by chance switched to the internal dac of my Blue Sound node 2. Holy cow. The system bloomed with life. I sold the DAC. Lesson learned.
Not to nitpick, but there's quite a few DACs out there that measure better. According to that ASR site anyway. But really they're basically all the same past a certain threshold. Most modern DACs have noise, and distortion, but it's so low. We're not able to hear it. Even the DACs that measure near the bottom of the pack included. And they don't all sound bad. I own a Sabaj D5 which is right up there with the Matrix measurement wise, and it's very smooth and musical. I'm listening to it right now. It's very good.
In fact I've read, and seen many reviews about that Matrix DAC, and not one of them said it was lifeless. Thomas and Stereo just gave a rave review of it yesterday, and Sandu at Soundnews loved it. His reference DAC is the big dog Matrix actually. I'm quite sure that's what you heard, but I'm just not sure the DAC is really to blame. There's way too many variables in a HiFi setup to just blame the DAC with no actual proof. Especially one that do many other people have spoken so highly of.
It could easily be a mismatch in your system. The room. Cables. Or many things. I think to definitively say it was the DACs cause, and that is truly lifeless. One would need to do some very, very thorough testing. To be 100% positive the DAC sounds bad itself. You would have to do like a reviewer does, and swap tons of gear. Plus have a definite reference setup for comparison. Plus take it to other people houses, and try it in their setups too really.
To be fair I've even owned equipment I thought was horrible at first. Only to pull it out of the closet 5 months later, because I need it temporarily, until I get something else. And end up falling in love with it the 2nd time around. Never ended up buying anything else to replace it, and wondered WTF I was thinking the 1st time around??? One I can remember off the top of my head was the Holographic Audio Pre Twenty Five. Can't remember the different setups, but it stayed in the 2nd setup for a long while, until I got a Hypex amp, and felt it needed a tube preamp instead. But I still own it.
Either way. I assure you from experience that how something measures won't tell you very much about how it sounds at all. And that for every anecdotal story that makes you think something is one way there's a bunch of others that will directly contradict it, and point to it being the opposite way. Of course none of these are facts. They're just stories of people's experiences.
This is why I personally try not to talk bad about stuff that's still being sold. It's really not fair to the people that are trying to make a living, and feed their family from the profits of these devices. I prefer to let people find out on their own what they sound like in their system. And if they don't like it then. They can return it. Or sell it.
Speaking of which. What are you going to do with that DAC? Because I'm interested in trying it myself. Unfortunately my job is closed down because of Covid for a while, but if you were selling and the price was right. I might just have to break into my savings. Honestly though. If you can't return it. I recommend holding onto it for a while if you can afford to, and try it again later. You might get a surprise. Anyway, sorry for the essay, and have a great day. ✌️
@@amb3cog
Or, in the words of Justin Wilson: "I wanna tell you about four or three things. They're not actually *true,* they're just things that happened." 😆
@@HareDeLune The Cajun Cook? I miss that guy. He was truly a man for all seasonings.
Ronald. Just noticed you said you sold it. So forget that last paragraph I guess.
But I also noticed something that makes me think. Were you using the optical out from the Node 2 to the Matrix? Because if so. That very well could have been the root of your problem right there. The digital out on the Node 2 is very limited. Even the new 2i is too. Very low bit/sampling rate, and no MQA either. Most people seem to have no issues with the digital out on them really, but I've had issues with optical cords myself, and coaxial too. That really put a blanket over the sound. I've also seen bad optical jacks also. The source is very, and I mean VERY important with digital. Just like analog, because it is really an analog signal. I couldn't believe the difference in sound my music server made, compared to my laptop. It was as if I bought a new $1000, or better tube preamp for my system! Just something to think on. ✌️
@@amb3cog
Ha-ha!
He was a great storyteller, too.
I have the original Vali 2 with an orange globe 6dj8 acting as a pre to my Vidar driving my RP-600M. Why? Because its what I had lying around. But it works pretty well.
Steve, how did the Sundara's fare with the Vali 2+? Unusual choice.
BTW everyone calls them Sun dara. The correct Sanskrit pronunciation is Soon dara (means beautiful).
I'm very curious here as well. I wasn't expecting to run Planars on a tube, but this is making me think about a hybrid.
@@tylerstravis heard it in my local store and its pretty awesome. I have a sundara and dont have any amp at the moment as i sold my jds atom. But listening it o the pc it's not what i heard from store with the vali. As what steve describes it brings you in the music it's like you were actually there. Dont get me wrong the sundara sounds fantastic as is but with the vali it became a different headphone in a good way lol
@@pinoyxbox thanks for the input! I bought mine a couple of weeks ago and love it with both the Sundara and 6XX.
@@tylerstravis what tube are you rolling with it?
@@pinoyxbox Stock so far, but I did pick up an EH-6922.
Are those Klipsch speakers in the background?
Yes
QUESTION: Is inserting a Vali 2 *in the chain* between solid-state preamp and power amp a good way to try out "tube sound" on a system? (There's no way I'm going back to tube power output stages.)
Does anyone out there have real experience with this?
I would like to know too
I'm currently streaming Amazon HD music (I no longer have any CD's or LP's) from my iPhone through a Dragonfly Cobalt into a Schiit Jotunheim (you recommended the Jotunheim and it was a GREAT upgrade [thanks!]) and then listen on a pair of Hifiman HE400i's. This sounds great after adding the Jotunheim, but now I have an additional $300-400 windfall that I can use to improve even further. When asked the guys at Schiit they recommended perhaps adding a Modius DAC, I was wondering if upgrading the headphones (maybe the Sundaras) might be a good way to go as well. Just curious about your opinion. I have a very eclectic music library - and love everything in your samplers.
How about JBL 306P MkII desktop (active) speakers?
Hi Jay, I jut thought I'd add my two cents. I own two pieces of Schiit, a Fulla 3 (heaphone dac/amp with a mic input, essentially for gaming on my computer) and the Modius. I love them both. I run my computer into the Fulla and the Modius both. The Fulla sits on my desk, while the Modius is about 10 feet away and also has my dvd/cd player running into it. The Fulla I can also run into a powered sub (a 15 yr old Logitech model which I don't remember the name of, 20 watt model at most) that has outputs for 2 speakers. I got rid of the Logitech speakers and replaced them with a pair of Realistic Solo 103's that have Fostex 103 full range drivers in them. When I play RUclips music(admittedly not hifi) they sound amazing. When I have the speakers positioned correctly, they disappear and the sound comes from behind my monitor. There's a depth and width to the sound, and the clarity is unbeatable for the price (not much as the 103's were free, the Logitech had been paid for 15 years ago, and the Fulla, I got a B stock one, for $79 instead of the $99). Yes, I'm frugal.
Now as for the Modius, depending upon the circumstances, I will also run music from RUclips and cd's through it into a pair of DCM CX-27's or a pair of Cambridge Audio Aero 2's. What really sold me on the Modius was when I played (Sittin' On) The dock of the bay by Otis Redding. Compared to just playing it through the internal dac on the dvd player, the definition of the sound is night and day. The sound of the "bay" is where the difference comes in. The ocean and seagulls are right there with you. With the internal dac, not so much. As said above somewhere, how each song is engineered also plays a huge roll. I received a Michael Jackson Japanese import cd, containing everything from his Jackson five days all the way to his last recordings, and playing it through the Modius is just pure joy for me. The combination of the Modius and the engineering is magic.
I've been quite happy with my purchases from Schiit and certainly would not hesitate to buy from them again. I think I'll be getting a Vali at some point to use with it's pre-outs into my integrated. Long winded, but I hope this helps. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Hello sir, why do you need the Dragonfly Cobalt into a Schiit Jotunheim? I m trying to build a good system using Amazon HD and the iphone as well, I have it connected to an IFI hid dac and AT a990z or ad700x
@@pr8835 You can add either the Modi or Modi Multibit or their Mani phono preamp inside of the Jotunheim for the same (Modi) or less than (Multibit or Mani) then you'd pay for them separately.
thanks for removing my comment. free speech right? amazon is not HD. IFI is far better for a portable dac
These Schiity jokes never get old.
Are you Schiiting me? The name of the product is "Sh*t"?
Did you try running those Cornwalls off of it?!
Hi, could I use it as tube buffer between my passive Bent pre amp and Krell KSA 200S driving my Apogee Caliper speaker with EMIT super tweeters ?
Why do you need an external DAC? I mostly care about driving computer speakers (not loud), is the Vale sufficient for that?
Most computer built in sound cards sound bad cause all the interference inside the computer. They are also not the best quality. you can hear poping and static with good head phones. A good external DAC and AMP will have much lower noise floor. You should hear nothing when the volume is up `` and no signal is going through your system. This is accomplished by running usb from your computer to the DAC. The source to the dac is not influenced by your computers sound card eliminating any noise and crappy processing. I have a 400 dollar mobo and the schitt sounds better. You don't need an external dac you can run a signal straight from your sound card output into any exteranl amp .
Most dacs also can take multiple input sources as well. Schit Modi takes USB, OPTICAL and Coaxial. Also DACS can read higher bit rate music without messing with computer settings. Al in all I bought the Schitt Hersey amp cause i could not get the power i needed to run my headphones from my Computer. I bought the dac cause i wanted all sound processing done outside my computer to remove any static and have a low noise floor.
Schitt Vali is marketed as headphone AMP. You probably need a little more power depending on speakers. You need to look at the specs of your speakers and the specs of Vali on Schitts web site.
@@rothgartheviking858 Tak!
Could someone explain to me what is the difference between the headphone out and rca out ports on vali2? I understand one is a headphone amp out and the other is a preamp out, but how are those 2 outputs different, signal wise?
Steve, How do I hook this up to my Outlaw RR2160MK2? Thx.