As a sailor I have enjoyed watching this story unfold. It was heartbreaking to to listen to the wing/ mast break. Congratulations to Jimmy and Larry eventually winning the whole damn thing. Let's look forward to the venue getting afordable to more countries to be involved and let's move the sport in the right direction.
I have been next to a sunfish T-boning a 22' racing boat, it was like a bullet punched straight through the hull and both went to the bottom of the St.Croix
They should move the forward daggerboards forward a little more. also, lets not pretend we didn't think these boats would possibly flip over. The ORMAs and Maxis flipped over alot too, but then again they generally did in ocean races. Point being, consideration should have been given to how hard a recovery would take and the amount of damage that could happen from a "high" speed flip.
Very interesting and generous video wrapup, and not just 90 seconds of it, either. The whole incident could hardly be more effective in encouraging public interest. This video nicely shows Larry's team cast as the pioneers in adversity and perhaps even the underdogs now, since the ETNZ 72 has been looking so reliable, even if perhaps a bit truck-like compared to Larry's boat at rest. But it only counts when it's in motion.
Ive had this same exact scenario hgappen to me. Never know when wind sheer or forces can push the nose down, twist the rig & the current does the rest. Not a bigy, just fix it and move on. Great lesson learned. Sadly size of my boat is fraction of Oracles'.
It looks like boat twisting was a contributing factor... at :35 the leward hull is foiling while the windward bow is digging in, eventually pulling the leward hull down.
OK, I'm confused. Why when they first tied a line to it, why they didn't tie two lines to it? The front of the pontoons would have pointed down into the water and eventually would have brought it upright. Even when it was on its side, one could have tied the line to both ends of the pontoon and righted it. Tying to only one point just made it roll around, rather than righting.
Until AC72's come with a combustion engine and a throttle, United Statesians won't bother. All our lakes 30 years ago were full of sailboats and racing in every class, & legendary boatbuilders started in local workshops. Today, 100% powerboats. The lakes are trashed, a small handful of companies that became majors remain (though everything's made overseas) and the rest are gone. When I go out, the retirees wave me down & say how many years it's been since they've seen a sailboat on the water.
I happened to be there and have photos of the wreck. Unfortunately, I happened to turn around at the moment you lost it. I have some nice HD video of your last windward leg too.
A catamaran that can't be righted without a catastrophic failure needs a redesign. No disrespect to the Aussies, but a USA boat really ought to have a crew of seppos, mate.
This would be 'worst case scenario' to be avoided at all costs, correct? 1. Looks like the top of the wing started going faster than the bottom. 2. do you know what happens if you let the wing 'float' when you're going all out? Can you release it that quickly? Looks like you have 3-5 sec. Can the structure take it? I'm a theatrical rigger meaning I hang heavy things while innocents work beneath me(My wcs awareness). I sailed a Catalina 22 from Santa Cruz Isl. to Twin Harbors Catalina in one day
I would love to take a ride on one of these once its back to working conditions. anyone know if they allow this? I only have the little green book for US sailing so i atleast know some things. let me know!
They have no plan when the boats flip. They all stand around looking and doing very little. They need a very defined plan and method of righting the boat quickly when this happens. It happens often enough to need a definitive plan of action that can be implemented immediately.
smaller cats don't require as much force. these bigger boats need stronger ribs to pull them up. I also noticed they didn't have a righting strap ready in the case of a capsize.
Consider a remote controlled CO2 inflated airbag at top of mast. 10 lbs of gear that gives 1000 lbs of flotation and keeps mast from sinking. Trigger when no hope of using wind to assist righting.
I really think they stick to the AC45s. The AC72s are majestic, but so were the 12 meters. The AC45s are agile and very exciting. The size of the AC72s make them slow to maneuver whereas the AC45s are like cats. JMO.
All Australian accents during the crash, mostly American accents during the recovery. Maybe a few more natives on the boat would keep it right side up.
Spithill wearing a USA/Oracle cap. Cracks me up.... That they call the teams by country rather than by corporate name or by 'Billionaire/Owner" is silly. Do they think we don't notice that Spithill isn't American? I guess that cracks me up too.
Sad... can't the main and/or the jib sheets be released quickly? If not then you need a sharp knife real handy for such emergencies - better cut than totaling the boat. Also each crewman needs a carabiner/ harness & line to snap into the net and rappel down or climb over to try and right the boat. Also the net could e designed with ladders in it to climb down.
The scale of the cat for this race should be limited toa size that when capsized, it is "rightable" without damaging anything other than the skin of the wingsail. This capsize resulted in the loss of a $500k?/ $1M wingsail and no possibility of racing the next day. The 45's were exciting and robust in this sense. Forget the 72's if they are this fragile. I shudder to think of a tight cluster of 72's at the windward mark and one goes over causing a domino effect and taking out 2 others.
I doubt that this is the best . Recently there were some races with the new developed MOD70 Trimarans. They sailed amongst a Transatlantic with some winds 35-40kts and survived all !!! I fear that these AC72's (just 2ft longer) can withstand winds of even 20+kts as this Oracle fell down in moderate winds already .
Hi Yes Australia has same of the best sailors is the world, I know America has won many Americas cup but for a long time it was more due to money and technology but in 1984 the win by Australia due to technology changed things today its more on skills as all countrys have up the standard also great to see cats being the Americas cup boat insane sailing cats with kites. Anyway America decided that if Australians skipper for America the can win and now you have Darren Bundock and others
Ok...so this is Oracle's Team USA entry into the America's Cup race..why the hell does most everyone have an Australian accent? Do we not have competent enough sailors in the USA anymore that are worthy of crewing our America's Cup entry?
They're all from New Zealand. That's how the Kiwis lost the cup in the first place. Other teams lured away a lot of the best sailors with big salaries.
Amateur sailors, you could see the bow was way too low for the conditions. Catamarans are notorious for digging in. Heads should roll, where was common sense? Michigan
do Insurance companies put up with this "experimental sailing" disaster ? get the crew to pay half of the damages caused by their reckless conduct ... or just put them in the mental asylum till their irresponsible, ill and youth misleading madness gets to see the light of sanity
![Kumamoto Masters Japan 2024 | Gregoria Mariska Tunjung (INA) [5] vs. Akane Yamaguchi (JPN) [2] | F](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EIjZybhsWqA/mqdefault.jpg)
The AC72's look incredible! This is the best thing that's ever happened to sailing.
As a sailor I have enjoyed watching this story unfold. It was heartbreaking to to listen to the wing/ mast break. Congratulations to Jimmy and Larry eventually winning the whole damn thing. Let's look forward to the venue getting afordable to more countries to be involved and let's move the sport in the right direction.
I have been next to a sunfish T-boning a 22' racing boat, it was like a bullet punched straight through the hull and both went to the bottom of the St.Croix
This event broke my heart. But what a comeback!
got goosebumps when the mast snapped
This whole venture is less than pocket change for Ellison.
They should move the forward daggerboards forward a little more. also, lets not pretend we didn't think these boats would possibly flip over. The ORMAs and Maxis flipped over alot too, but then again they generally did in ocean races. Point being, consideration should have been given to how hard a recovery would take and the amount of damage that could happen from a "high" speed flip.
Huge respect to Oracle for the candid view from them of what is a huge set back!!
When I watched the " first sail "video of Oracle AC 72, I thought that she tended to favor the bow !!
They're brand new so it's a little early to write them off. 11 crew members on cats with 130ft wing foils is BADASS!
This is why it was hard to escape from Alcatraz.
I still love watching this. I could watch it over & over. I hope they can do the same with their AC50 but put Coutts onboard this time.
Oracle's second AC72 is now is final phases of design. ETA is January, 2013
Very interesting and generous video wrapup, and not just 90 seconds of it, either. The whole incident could hardly be more effective in encouraging public interest. This video nicely shows Larry's team cast as the pioneers in adversity and perhaps even the underdogs now, since the ETNZ 72 has been looking so reliable, even if perhaps a bit truck-like compared to Larry's boat at rest. But it only counts when it's in motion.
Nice work Amory!
Ive had this same exact scenario hgappen to me. Never know when wind sheer or forces can push the nose down, twist the rig & the current does the rest. Not a bigy, just fix it and move on. Great lesson learned. Sadly size of my boat is fraction of Oracles'.
To all the non-believers - I say the music's great, the racing is fantastic, the yachts & crew are magnificent.
Practice makes perfect, now we're battling NZ in the 2013 America's Cup!
Pictures that would have given an overall view of the damage (beyond the closeups) would have been nice.
we outsource everything, the construction, and the sailors
2:40 - made me shudder just to hear it
It looks like boat twisting was a contributing factor... at :35 the leward hull is foiling while the windward bow is digging in, eventually pulling the leward hull down.
OK, I'm confused. Why when they first tied a line to it, why they didn't tie two lines to it? The front of the pontoons would have pointed down into the water and eventually would have brought it upright.
Even when it was on its side, one could have tied the line to both ends of the pontoon and righted it. Tying to only one point just made it roll around, rather than righting.
Until AC72's come with a combustion engine and a throttle, United Statesians won't bother. All our lakes 30 years ago were full of sailboats and racing in every class, & legendary boatbuilders started in local workshops. Today, 100% powerboats. The lakes are trashed, a small handful of companies that became majors remain (though everything's made overseas) and the rest are gone. When I go out, the retirees wave me down & say how many years it's been since they've seen a sailboat on the water.
seeing or hearing the wreck of almost any boat is painful
Sad story but nicely told by "Amo" as usual.
Yes, when they all stand around watching their boat turn to toothpicks, a change in procedure is needed.
I happened to be there and have photos of the wreck. Unfortunately, I happened to turn around at the moment you lost it. I have some nice HD video of your last windward leg too.
What happened to the hull? What is ever used again?
A catamaran that can't be righted without a catastrophic failure needs a redesign. No disrespect to the Aussies, but a USA boat really ought to have a crew of seppos, mate.
Or is it a leading edge thing? The wing adjusts in front of the mast?
This would be 'worst case scenario' to be avoided at all costs, correct? 1. Looks like the top of the wing started going faster than the bottom. 2. do you know what happens if you let the wing 'float' when you're going all out? Can you release it that quickly? Looks like you have 3-5 sec. Can the structure take it? I'm a theatrical rigger meaning I hang heavy things while innocents work beneath me(My wcs awareness). I sailed a Catalina 22 from Santa Cruz Isl. to Twin Harbors Catalina in one day
was involved with vectran braided tube inflated jib battens built for Oracle at Vertigo, Elsinore 2005, curious if that tech was useful.
Nothing a little duct tape can't fix
Jhjij
I agree whole-heartedly! Spectacular to watch, but it's not yacht racing.
Very good point! I noticed the same thing.
I agree with you, you have to give your own sailors the experience.
Any decent Oracle would have foreseen this.
I would love to take a ride on one of these once its back to working conditions. anyone know if they allow this? I only have the little green book for US sailing so i atleast know some things. let me know!
They have no plan when the boats flip. They all stand around looking and doing very little. They need a very defined plan and method of righting the boat quickly when this happens. It happens often enough to need a definitive plan of action that can be implemented immediately.
Well the good news is that the mast has a lot of buoyancy...
Looking at the teams website, most are from AUS/NZ with a few from NL and even a CA. Only two crew members from US... pretty weird.
Are there any Americans on the team ?
The challengers and defender agreed to rules that do not allow the second 72 to launch until after 1 Feb 2013.
smaller cats don't require as much force. these bigger boats need stronger ribs to pull them up. I also noticed they didn't have a righting strap ready in the case of a capsize.
why didnt they try righting the boat like the other AC's?
Why wasn't there a backup 72?
Baretta369, How do you figure they should have dropped a wingsail??
The boat that won the cup was USA_17 - the same boat that you see wrecked in this video.
No it wasn't...it was by name only
when?
espectacular
"Cheating scandal threatens Oracle's America's Cup defense' Reuters News.
Its gonna get ugly again.
Consider a remote controlled CO2 inflated airbag at top of mast. 10 lbs of gear that gives 1000 lbs of flotation and keeps mast from sinking. Trigger when no hope of using wind to assist righting.
I guess that is true that the best sailors are in Europe, Australia and New Zeleand. If Team Oracle want to win they get the best sailors they can.
I would not have expected to catch the leeward hull that far off the wind. Painful to watch.
I really think they stick to the AC45s. The AC72s are majestic, but so were the 12 meters. The AC45s are agile and very exciting. The size of the AC72s make them slow to maneuver whereas the AC45s are like cats. JMO.
All Australian accents during the crash, mostly American accents during the recovery. Maybe a few more natives on the boat would keep it right side up.
Spithill wearing a USA/Oracle cap. Cracks me up....
That they call the teams by country rather than by corporate name or by 'Billionaire/Owner" is silly. Do they think we don't notice that Spithill isn't American?
I guess that cracks me up too.
historia wywrotki maszyny regatowej.Polecam inne filmy z regat American Cup
Oceanography Topography Survey? Prior to capsize? Risk management protocol.
Need a Hobie inflatable float ball on the masthead. Turn turtles are a hazard to navigation. Besides a chase boat, need a tender.
thats not an australian accent, and if it was, you got a problem with it?
Convicts make the best sailors
you win at internets.
Sad... can't the main and/or the jib sheets be released quickly? If not then you need a sharp knife real handy for such emergencies - better cut than totaling the boat. Also each crewman needs a carabiner/ harness & line to snap into the net and rappel down or climb over to try and right the boat. Also the net could e designed with ladders in it to climb down.
Minor setback team USA, victory is assured !
Of course not, they're all watching Jersey Shore, or trying to become the next rap superstar.
and your thoughts on the illegal lead that was found?
Hobie 16 protocols don't work when you have a 90 beam.
why did oracle do that he is like team nz
Oracles boat was always the faster after they tweaked it they were of nz were kinda robbed
Kiwi, Aussie, hard for a Yank to distinguish unless they say "sheep".
The scale of the cat for this race should be limited toa size that when capsized, it is "rightable" without damaging anything other than the skin of the wingsail. This capsize resulted in the loss of a $500k?/ $1M wingsail and no possibility of racing the next day. The 45's were exciting and robust in this sense. Forget the 72's if they are this fragile. I shudder to think of a tight cluster of 72's at the windward mark and one goes over causing a domino effect and taking out 2 others.
I doubt that this is the best . Recently there were some races with the new developed MOD70 Trimarans. They sailed amongst a Transatlantic with some winds 35-40kts and survived all !!!
I fear that these AC72's (just 2ft longer) can withstand winds of even 20+kts as this Oracle fell down in moderate winds already .
Hi
Yes Australia has same of the best sailors is the world, I know America has won many Americas cup but for a long time it was more due to money and technology but in 1984 the win by Australia due to technology changed things today its more on skills as all countrys have up the standard also great to see cats being the Americas cup boat insane sailing cats with kites. Anyway America decided that if Australians skipper for America the can win and now you have Darren Bundock and others
Ok...so this is Oracle's Team USA entry into the America's Cup race..why the hell does most everyone have an Australian accent? Do we not have competent enough sailors in the USA anymore that are worthy of crewing our America's Cup entry?
They're all from New Zealand. That's how the Kiwis lost the cup in the first place. Other teams lured away a lot of the best sailors with big salaries.
real american sounding Team USA.
A BOAT WITH BRAKES WOW! PUT A SET OF PITCH PLANES ON IT LIKE A SUBARINE SHOULD HELP IT AND DONT TAKE IT OUT IN A SWELL OR A MODERATE BREEZE
Think Titanic!
Because American's are interesting
Damn! I hate vhen this shit happens. I'm sailing (all classes ,now 470) and i know what shit this is.
What's the point of calling it Team USA if the team isn't from the USA?
Whoops.
ouch
Good for the US bad for NZ that they made 2 boats not just 1
جميل جداً
To a Yank's ear they're mostly Kiwis. And your question answers itself. ;o)
kiwi kiwi kiwi.......KIWI KIWI KIWI
A couple of kiwi accent' in Team USA.
Very Sad ):
they eed a tug
Still laughing? -- I mean, I love the Kiwi team, wish they had won it, but comments like yours make it difficult to like Kiwi fans.
Kiwi here!
the sound of the mast snapping is painfull
compared to volvo ocean race, americas cup is sooo boring.
Short answer, no.
Amateur sailors, you could see the bow was way too low for the conditions. Catamarans are notorious for digging in. Heads should roll, where was common sense? Michigan
Oracle Team Pacific rim
No you don't unfortunately
do Insurance companies put up with this "experimental sailing" disaster ? get the crew to pay half of the damages caused by their reckless conduct ... or just put them in the mental asylum till their irresponsible, ill and youth misleading madness gets to see the light of sanity