The original script by Harlan Edison had the Guardian appear as an energy vortex suspended between two stone pillars. However it would have cost the entire episode budget to make that one effect. I always suspected that the Guardian as they saw it in TOS was appearing in a low power state because it was dormant until it was triggered with "A Question," and could probably appear as anything it wanted to if required to interact with it's inquisitive visitors.
I had goosebumps when that the Guardian spoke in the correct voice and the door changed. What a moment! I will definitely miss the character of Georgiou though.
I remember when the first half of this episode aired and a bunch of us online spent the whole week arguing and guessing who he might really be. I had my money on him being a Q but other folks had pointed out the newspaper having the same name as the one from City on the Edge of Forever.
The bit where time passes 3 months for Georgiou and minutes for Burnham reminded me of the movie Contact where Jodie fosters character goes through the alien gateway and records 18 hours of static on her recording device but from earth only seconds pass by and no one believes her
Actually it wasn’t seconds, according to the CCTV she didn’t vanish at all. The alien tech took her and returned her instantaneously from the focal point of the event horizon, but I get your point.
@@matthewmccarthy1247 Yea, at the end when she's shown the vid of her capsule 'entering the event horizon', it appears that the capsule just falls right through it.
1:19 Georgiou: "Who are you?" Guardian: "I was called Clarence in "It's A Wonderful Life." Here I am called Carl. But regardless of my assumed 'names', I AM THE GUARDIAN OF FOREVER.
For those who don’t know: Harlan Ellison was a major science fiction author starting back in the 1950s. Among many other things, he wrote TOS episode _City on the Edge of Forever_ from which The Guardian of Forever character originated. However, Ellison was also an infamously obnoxious, narcissistic, disagreeable prick, and was hated by most of his peers (and many of his fans) because of this. He wrote a story slightly similar to the concept of James Cameron’s Terminator. _Very_ slightly. Cameron, who was no creative slouch, absolutely denied this and refused to acknowledge it. Ellison sued and won. So, to this day, the original Terminator movie has an added-on overlaid graphic at the very end of its credits stating, _Acknowledgments to the work of Harlan Ellison._ Cameron still adamantly maintains that he never read Ellison’s work and that _The Terminator_ was a wholly original creation of his own. Anyway, back in the 2000s when JJ Abrams was rebooting the Star Trek film franchise there was a rumor floating around that they were going to use The Guardian as a plot device to setup an alternative timeline. Whether it was true or not, Ellison made it known at the time that he had better be compensated if it was. I wouldn’t be surprised if him finally dying made negotiating with his estate for its use now a lot easier..
Ellison was a good and sometimes great writer. And he was a jerk, among many other adjectives. I can understand his being upset over "his" version being changed, but here's the thing; Star Trek wasn't his. Gene Roddenberry created Star Trek, not Harlan. And though Gene had asked Harlan and others for help, that doesn't change that one bit. Gene had guidelines for Star Trek and not everything Harlan had come up with fit that view. Sure, Gene may have had a but of tunnel vision when it came to how Starfleet and humanity as a whole were presented (and I think it's good that TNG started to chip away at that a bit before DS9 started to peel away the layers of utopia), but Harlan Ellison's version for "The City On The Edge Of Forever" didn't really fit Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek as it was, and certainly not at the time. We got the better version.
Your 'slightly similar' story to the Terminator was a widely watched episode of The Outer Limits called 'Time Soldier'...and it was more than a little bit similar. Legal precedents aren't set by minor similarities. So, yes, Harlan Ellison was considered to be a disagreeable martinet...but just you ask every actor (bar a select close few) who has worked with Cameron, especially the likes of Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio. By all accounts, he is an ego maniacal martinet with a temper to match...so he probably BELIEVES he wrote The Terminator off his own back, inspired by naught but a flu induced nightmare, but the reality is he probably had more inspiration than he lets on.
I think they did a near perfect job of using the _TOS_ clip of the Guardian's voice (Bart LaRue) until the end of the phrase, fading Carl's voice in at the very last moment. That kept the Guardian's presence in place, merging it with Carl so you'd feel it and accept the two as one and the same.
Basically he/they are a powerful entity to displace/move things in space and the multiverse that he/they moved Phillipa from that universe (for three months) back to Phillipa in a split second, displacing or merging one object in place of another near exactly in that moment of time and space. That’s pretty effing scary to think, that the guardian is not a mere tool but has consciousness that can do that to a person when they so desire ☠️
Love how Georgiou grew so fond of Prime!Saru that she wanted his Mirror counterpart to also make it through Vahar'ai. It shows that she really did grow during her time in the Prime universe.
THAT WAS....FUCKING AWESOME!! Watched TOS with my grandfather when i was a kid and that was his favorite Episode sad that he wasnt around to see this he would have loved it even if its not the Original one still it was awesome to see it again
My grandfather past away a year prior to me being born.... He was the original family Trekkie. Years later, when I was five or six, I sat in front of the color TV at my grandmother's, according to her, my mother, and my aunt Carol, had the same look of amazement as my "grampa Jack" watching "City on the Edge of Forever". They said it was like he was reborn in me.
Man.. hearing the Guardian's voice again.. made me tear up real bad! I almost can't believe it has such an impact on me, but it's almost like hearing the voice of a dead friend after decades.. What a wild scene and great twist.
"There are so many different ways to tell a story, but that's what makes them so interesting; you can never predict how they're going to turn out." - Professor Paradox
@dasabaja I kind of agree....but with that show starting out in that earlier time period I expected to see the Enterprise at some point...and it was cool. But the guardian of forever was so unexpected I was wowed and in awe
@@SpeegleSphere lol i think we all screamed I use to watch TOS with my grandfather had he been alive to see this he would have fucking screamed HELL YEA!! I love how they used the Original voice and then made the gate go together that was epic
@@tywinlannister8015 lol that would have been awesome too but as a TOS fan i almost fell out of my chair when i saw who it was...my grandfather passed away 19 years ago and that guardian was his #1 fav he would have loved it when that door exploded and turned into the portal :)
@@TwistedSecrets777 Oh I totally dug that it was the Guardian. I mean the newspaper should have raised some flags in my head but it didn't register somehow. I completely was surprised when the reveal came. But I loved every moment of it. I'm curious as to when Georgiou will arrive though. I tried to remember but as I recall the Mirror Universe became different from the prime timeline in the Roman Era. I wonder how Georgiou would fit in Ancient Rome.
The Guardian was interacting with Michael for one minute, but knew what was happening to the Emporer for 3 months, and what was happening to the time line because of her actions going forward and evaluating her at the same time.
This shows that mirror Saru was right. She wasn't Terran anymore. And this two-parter also confirms something fans have been suspecting for quite a while. There is more than one mirror universe.
I /love/ how Discovery wove together all the time travel stuff from the various series (especially Enterprise and Voyager), and thought it through enough to realize, "Oh yeah, the Guardian would have been a /huge/ weapon for whoever controlled it during that time--we better figure out what that would have meant."
It took me a couple of viewings... but I noticed that it isn't just an over dub... they composited his voice with the original. You can hear his actual voice underneath it.
I thought it sounded.....off(I have part of the original clip in a tribute video someone did for the 40th anniversary) then watching it a few more times I noticed the layered voices
I know people complain about it endlessly, and rightfully so due to it's many flaws, but this scene and most of season 3 showed me that there just might be hope for Discovery after all. If they keep toning down the action and melodrama, and keep increasing the thoughtfulness and wonder, it can still be saved.
@@treasurehunter3744 different strokes for different folks. A lot of people said TNG wasn't 'real trek', but now those same people will use TNG as an example of some of the best the show has had to offer. Same with DS9 - lambasted as 'against the spirit' of Trek when it aired, but often considered to have some of THE definitive episodes, now (like "The Wire" and "In the Pale Moonlight"). People are already talking about "Project Daedalus" in the same sort of tones. Right now you're spoiled for choice of which franchise to dip into, and at least some of these are just great episodes. So... yes, peak trek.
After traveling through different times and universes, Michael is still really surprised that Philippa went back to the Terran universe, spent three months there, and came back to the same time she left. lol
I mean to be fair, seeing her the entire time and her being gone for 3 months and having data for that three months would be a bit of a shock. Each time they've travelled universes or through time they've done so physically and were absent for that time.
i thought it was going to be a Q to be honest. guardian of forever would have been my second guess(but mostly cuz it was already spoiled for me) honestly its so funny how so many scenes and moments are getting spoiled with thumbnails and theories and everything.
Not sure why but when the guardian revealed himself at around 2:51 the shape and swirling tunnel reminded me of the doomsday machine from the TOS episode of the same name.
Fun Fact. The character William Decker, Capt. of the Enterprise in The Motion Picture, was written in the novel to be the son of Matt Decker, the fateful Capt. from The doomsday Machine episode. There was a novel written, Vendetta, in which it is revealed that the planet killer was a proto-type of a bigger engine designed to kill the Borg. Unfortunately when launched towards the Delta quadrant at them, Earth was in the way and would be destroyed. A second bigger doomsday machine is launched and TNG crew must stop it from killing innocent planets. It's also revealed in that book that warp 10 is the highest speed achievable, and if you actually get there, your atoms are spread infinitely over all reality at one time.
Discovery is hit or miss as Trek but bringing back the Guardian was an amazing move by the show runners. I just hope they consulted with Harlan Ellison's estate about it because old Harlan was very protective of his creative property
This would have been the single best moment in Discovery for me (not hard, but still) if it hadn't been spoiled by some random article on my news feed on day one, before I had a chance to watch it.
1:51 Georgiou: "There are three-months of new bio data points here!!" Burnham: "That's impossible! You were unconscious for less than a minute!" I take it the Guardian was also responsible for Picard's experience in "The Inner Light" planet after all.
@@KGabMI not true, Crusher examines him and states that his temporal lobes and other brain functions had experienced significant time changes (years). May have also contributed to his disease in 'All Good Things'.
This shows how much power The Guardian really has by shifting from one planet to another!!!!!!!!!! I would like to know IF The Guardian WAS used in "THE Time War" as mentioned in Star Trek:ENTERPRISE in which that War was a particular plot line through out the series!!!!!!!!!!!
If you're referring to the Temporal Wars, then yes he was. In this episode, Carl/The Guardian says that he hid himself away because the warring factions of the Temporal Wars were using him to commit atrocities across time.
There's a TNG easter egg on the newspaper "carl" shows off. If you look closely, one of the headlines reads "starship U.S.S. Jenolan reported to be missing"
The best episode of “TOS” ever. Why Kirk never married. Edith was his one true love. Besides the Enterprise of course. Nimoy said the final scene always got to him
I wish we could have seen where she landed, learning where the divergence between the universes began. I actually care more about that than the burn, ha.
@@xandersnyder7214 When in ENT was there a cross over? During those two episodes Mirror Flox mentions how novels and stories of the two universes feature similar characters but appear more weaker. Which might suggest the divergence started a long time ago...
This scene, the throwback to my childhood in such great quality with its original voice had me squealing like a little schoolgirl on the edge of my seat for a few minutes straight!!
Haven't watched Discovery before (when I heard that Spock's family and back story were altered in this version I wasn't interested), but scenes like this make me think that maybe I should check out the show. The Guardian of Forever? Wow!!!
It wasn't altered per se but a part of it was explored that was never mentioned before. At the end of season 2 it is explained why it is never mentioned before previously.
Ok, that was definitely a nice feeling hearing that sound bite! Us old Trekkies knew who he was all the time! Let's not forget that was the voice of James Doohan = Montgomery Scott!
Even if I knew nothing - absolutely nothing at all - of Star Trek, the title of 'GUARDIAN OF FOREVER' would still sound f***ing AWESOME. Comparing the delivery of the line with the original show, it was slowed here by about 20 percent, along with a few tonal tweaks.
@@brettwalters-n4u Eat the bird. It was HARLAN ELLISON that created the GOF, moron. Roddenberry stole the idea. It’s well documented. Why wasn’t it ever explored again in TNG, DS9, or VOY, you troll?
Being a doorway, he really knows how to make an entrance
Definitely a Carl-worthy joke.
@@kelaarin It was a-door-able! ;D
take my like and GTFO
yes
Noice
Awesome throwback to TOS, even using the original voice of the Guardian.
"Many such journeys are possible. Let me be your gateway."
should have said that too.
How??? It fucking disappeared. The whole thing was dumb and made no sense and was insulting to the original.
James Doohan would have been proud
All they did was badly slow the voice down. Terrible rendition of that line. Terrible. Just like the show.
@@GKHTS are you done whining?
Best scene with the callback to TOS. Of course the entire Mirror Universe is pretty much a callback as well. Love that voice after all these years.
I'm not a big Discovery person, but seeing and hearing this in modern times was fucking awesome.
Same, lost my sh*t when i heard it
Me too, I was so happy when they revealed it
Absolutely!!! Using a recording of the original voice was especially wonderful.
I always thought the Guardian was too useful to just abandon it and never mention it again.
Definitely an improvement on season 2, at times.
Old Trek head here. This was the most lit scene of Discovery by far. It gave me goosebumps.
The exploding door was a bit unnecessary, but cool. He (or it?) sure knows how to make an entrance! Pun intended.
gave me goosenipples, too, and sent my "nerd" endings to ululation-level!
@@refulgent_fanta Technically, TV shows are unnecessary. Might as well do neat effects, if you're going to do a show at all.
Me too... every time I watch it!
The original script by Harlan Edison had the Guardian appear as an energy vortex suspended between two stone pillars. However it would have cost the entire episode budget to make that one effect. I always suspected that the Guardian as they saw it in TOS was appearing in a low power state because it was dormant until it was triggered with "A Question," and could probably appear as anything it wanted to if required to interact with it's inquisitive visitors.
All worth it to hear the late Bart LaRue's voice as the Guardian once again.
Love or hate Discovery, but this moment is just freaking awesome
absolute nerdvana!
I actually cried when I saw that bit
I love Discovery, but I hate they kept calling her "emporer".
It's "empress" thank you very much.
@@johnsilcox8 technically there is a chance on said universe that word is used for both genres
@@BioClone I was going by every other bit of that universe's version of English seemed to be the same as ours, hence a female is "Empress".
I had goosebumps when that the Guardian spoke in the correct voice and the door changed. What a moment! I will definitely miss the character of Georgiou though.
I remember when the first half of this episode aired and a bunch of us online spent the whole week arguing and guessing who he might really be. I had my money on him being a Q but other folks had pointed out the newspaper having the same name as the one from City on the Edge of Forever.
To be everywhere and to be nowhere is pretty powerful! Hence be in the moment
The bit where time passes 3 months for Georgiou and minutes for Burnham reminded me of the movie Contact where Jodie fosters character goes through the alien gateway and records 18 hours of static on her recording device but from earth only seconds pass by and no one believes her
Matthew McConaughey's character believed her.
Yeah, government withheld that evidence as confidential and granted her a healthy fund in the end. Nice catch.
Actually it wasn’t seconds, according to the CCTV she didn’t vanish at all. The alien tech took her and returned her instantaneously from the focal point of the event horizon, but I get your point.
@@matthewmccarthy1247 Yea, at the end when she's shown the vid of her capsule 'entering the event horizon', it appears that the capsule just falls right through it.
OR The inner light
1:19 Georgiou: "Who are you?"
Guardian: "I was called Clarence in "It's A Wonderful Life." Here I am called Carl. But regardless of my assumed 'names', I AM THE GUARDIAN OF FOREVER.
Nonsense, I shall go by another name. I am The Presence who preside on the council of eternity.
@@kvm1992 "I am the Q continuum."
@@LGranthamsHeir "i am he who must not be named."
oops, wrong continuum. lol
@@twystedhumour I'll name/ The Oscar Wilde continuum?
For those who don’t know:
Harlan Ellison was a major science fiction author starting back in the 1950s. Among many other things, he wrote TOS episode _City on the Edge of Forever_ from which The Guardian of Forever character originated.
However, Ellison was also an infamously obnoxious, narcissistic, disagreeable prick, and was hated by most of his peers (and many of his fans) because of this.
He wrote a story slightly similar to the concept of James Cameron’s Terminator. _Very_ slightly. Cameron, who was no creative slouch, absolutely denied this and refused to acknowledge it. Ellison sued and won. So, to this day, the original Terminator movie has an added-on overlaid graphic at the very end of its credits stating, _Acknowledgments to the work of Harlan Ellison._ Cameron still adamantly maintains that he never read Ellison’s work and that _The Terminator_ was a wholly original creation of his own.
Anyway, back in the 2000s when JJ Abrams was rebooting the Star Trek film franchise there was a rumor floating around that they were going to use The Guardian as a plot device to setup an alternative timeline.
Whether it was true or not, Ellison made it known at the time that he had better be compensated if it was.
I wouldn’t be surprised if him finally dying made negotiating with his estate for its use now a lot easier..
Ellison was a good and sometimes great writer. And he was a jerk, among many other adjectives.
I can understand his being upset over "his" version being changed, but here's the thing; Star Trek wasn't his. Gene Roddenberry created Star Trek, not Harlan. And though Gene had asked Harlan and others for help, that doesn't change that one bit. Gene had guidelines for Star Trek and not everything Harlan had come up with fit that view. Sure, Gene may have had a but of tunnel vision when it came to how Starfleet and humanity as a whole were presented (and I think it's good that TNG started to chip away at that a bit before DS9 started to peel away the layers of utopia), but Harlan Ellison's version for "The City On The Edge Of Forever" didn't really fit Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek as it was, and certainly not at the time.
We got the better version.
Your 'slightly similar' story to the Terminator was a widely watched episode of The Outer Limits called 'Time Soldier'...and it was more than a little bit similar. Legal precedents aren't set by minor similarities.
So, yes, Harlan Ellison was considered to be a disagreeable martinet...but just you ask every actor (bar a select close few) who has worked with Cameron, especially the likes of Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio. By all accounts, he is an ego maniacal martinet with a temper to match...so he probably BELIEVES he wrote The Terminator off his own back, inspired by naught but a flu induced nightmare, but the reality is he probably had more inspiration than he lets on.
I know.
Harlan Ellison told me I’d be dead in 10 years because of my weight. Well, it’s 19 years later, I’m still fat, and he’s very much dead.
@@Detson404 Vengeance is being able to laugh at how wrong someone was while standing over their grave.
I think they did a near perfect job of using the _TOS_ clip of the Guardian's voice (Bart LaRue) until the end of the phrase, fading Carl's voice in at the very last moment. That kept the Guardian's presence in place, merging it with Carl so you'd feel it and accept the two as one and the same.
I thought that was an excellent touch as well. I didn't even notice it the first time. One of those fun surprises you get with a second watch.
Fanservice done right if you ask me.
just stunning.
Basically he/they are a powerful entity to displace/move things in space and the multiverse that he/they moved Phillipa from that universe (for three months) back to Phillipa in a split second, displacing or merging one object in place of another near exactly in that moment of time and space.
That’s pretty effing scary to think, that the guardian is not a mere tool but has consciousness that can do that to a person when they so desire ☠️
Love how Georgiou grew so fond of Prime!Saru that she wanted his Mirror counterpart to also make it through Vahar'ai. It shows that she really did grow during her time in the Prime universe.
She was always antogonistic against him but under all of that yeah she started to respect him a lot.
THAT WAS....FUCKING AWESOME!! Watched TOS with my grandfather when i was a kid and that was his favorite Episode sad that he wasnt around to see this he would have loved it even if its not the Original one still it was awesome to see it again
My grandfather past away a year prior to me being born.... He was the original family Trekkie. Years later, when I was five or six, I sat in front of the color TV at my grandmother's, according to her, my mother, and my aunt Carol, had the same look of amazement as my "grampa Jack" watching "City on the Edge of Forever". They said it was like he was reborn in me.
All these stories and yet if your gramps' were real fans they'd see this for the filth it is.
Man.. hearing the Guardian's voice again.. made me tear up real bad! I almost can't believe it has such an impact on me, but it's almost like hearing the voice of a dead friend after decades.. What a wild scene and great twist.
I Am The Guardian Of Forever, I want to get that as my phone ring tone.
The moment he revealed himself as the guardian, I screamed the house down, ruddy shocked me
Probably the best reveal in all of discovery
I KNOW!!! I kept thinking he might be a Q.
This and Enterprise at the end of season 1
Dad and I watched this together. He grew up watching TOS and I can’t remember the last time I saw him smile that big. Well done Discovery.
If you think about it Georgiou basically created the resistance in the mirror universe. She also took future tech with her to the past!
Old hat honestly considering the Defiant incident. And a few years later Kirk's influence on Mirror Spock.
Has to be the most MASSIVELY COOL homage to TOS EVER!!!! I remember when I was watching this episode, and it BLEW ME AWAY when he said it!! :)
Wait, they used the same sound bite from TOS? Thought someone edited it in from TOS in the videos I saw?
Lmao!
Yes sir
Did you not watch the episode?
@@xandersnyder7214 many people comment on these clips, don't usually watch the show. But at least the comment is positive
"There are so many different ways to tell a story, but that's what makes them so interesting; you can never predict how they're going to turn out." - Professor Paradox
What a reveal ! 🤩 Now all we could hope is she lands where that TOS era traveler landed and on the other end of that portal is Admiral Picard .
She is likely heading back to the time she came from to join section 31, which I think is still in development.
@@gedias1 i have the feeling that it can be settled in the 24th century
@@FedoReds88 I think she needs to be closer to her time where there the Mirror Universe is still close.
@@FedoReds88 no they’re going back to TOS.
She'll be in the time of the temporal war.
Hands down, the most epic moment in Discovery.
The ONLY epic moment of STD.
And the appearance of the Enterprise. Kinda sad that best moments in STD are not STD related at all.
@dasabaja I kind of agree....but with that show starting out in that earlier time period I expected to see the Enterprise at some point...and it was cool. But the guardian of forever was so unexpected I was wowed and in awe
@@dasabaja Then create your own Star Trek series and pitch it to Paramount.
I was expecting that, but dang was it cool!
I was complaining about the guy, saying the can do better. Then I screamed!
@@SpeegleSphere lol i think we all screamed I use to watch TOS with my grandfather had he been alive to see this he would have fucking screamed HELL YEA!! I love how they used the Original voice and then made the gate go together that was epic
Honestly I was surprised when it turned out to be the guardian of forever. My money was on a Q.
@@tywinlannister8015 lol that would have been awesome too but as a TOS fan i almost fell out of my chair when i saw who it was...my grandfather passed away 19 years ago and that guardian was his #1 fav he would have loved it when that door exploded and turned into the portal :)
@@TwistedSecrets777 Oh I totally dug that it was the Guardian. I mean the newspaper should have raised some flags in my head but it didn't register somehow.
I completely was surprised when the reveal came. But I loved every moment of it.
I'm curious as to when Georgiou will arrive though. I tried to remember but as I recall the Mirror Universe became different from the prime timeline in the Roman Era.
I wonder how Georgiou would fit in Ancient Rome.
One of the most powerful beings in the universe wears a Bowler. It is absolutely the hat that's in style in every time period.
Must've been a hell of a conversation to get that guy on.
"What's my character motivation?"
"You are... a door."
She goes in. ENSIGN HARRY KIM COMES OUT.
well, that's just racist. lol
@@twystedhumour No it isn't? What are you talking about hahaha
Tew min intah! Wun men leaves!
Aw, shit, wait, wrong movie.
Or Kirk, Spock and Bones 👍
The Guardian was interacting with Michael for one minute, but knew what was happening to the Emporer for 3 months, and what was happening to the time line because of her actions going forward and evaluating her at the same time.
Best.Character.Entrance...EVER!
We can have Mad Max
or
Star Trek.
Choose.
Vote BLUE.
This shows that mirror Saru was right. She wasn't Terran anymore. And this two-parter also confirms something fans have been suspecting for quite a while. There is more than one mirror universe.
As Spock once said, "There are always possibilities." For every action, there is an equal and opposite reality created where the converse happens.
@@jamesbuchanan4414 TNG Parallels confirmed a multiverse.
I lost someone this year who would have laughed with unfettered joy at that revelation.
Had a feeling Carl was the guardian and that reveal was awesome :)
i was honestly expecting him to be a Q, but i'm glad that it was the guardian instead
Time has resumed its shape, all is as it was.
Love how they blended the voices together. Awesome moment in tv
I /love/ how Discovery wove together all the time travel stuff from the various series (especially Enterprise and Voyager), and thought it through enough to realize, "Oh yeah, the Guardian would have been a /huge/ weapon for whoever controlled it during that time--we better figure out what that would have meant."
It took me a couple of viewings... but I noticed that it isn't just an over dub... they composited his voice with the original. You can hear his actual voice underneath it.
yes, you can. Smart effect, eh?
I thought it sounded.....off(I have part of the original clip in a tribute video someone did for the 40th anniversary) then watching it a few more times I noticed the layered voices
just on the word forever
I know people complain about it endlessly, and rightfully so due to it's many flaws, but this scene and most of season 3 showed me that there just might be hope for Discovery after all. If they keep toning down the action and melodrama, and keep increasing the thoughtfulness and wonder, it can still be saved.
Wonderful reveal and beautifully played by Paul Guilfoyle.
As an old school trekkie, I loved this. As a recent convert to trek, my wife also loved this. Discovery is peak Trek
Fascinating? Maybe. This scene got my jaw dropped? Yes! Visually leaps and bounds above? Absolutely. Peak trek?
... nah, mate.
@@treasurehunter3744 different strokes for different folks. A lot of people said TNG wasn't 'real trek', but now those same people will use TNG as an example of some of the best the show has had to offer. Same with DS9 - lambasted as 'against the spirit' of Trek when it aired, but often considered to have some of THE definitive episodes, now (like "The Wire" and "In the Pale Moonlight"). People are already talking about "Project Daedalus" in the same sort of tones. Right now you're spoiled for choice of which franchise to dip into, and at least some of these are just great episodes. So... yes, peak trek.
Discovery is amazing! Sad that S5 will be its last.
@@wesleylunsford9691 absolutely agree.
My reaction was thus:
"Wait I know that voiOOHHHMYGOD!!!!"
then Mr. Larson picks up your 9-iron and bends it.
(Scream of delight)
This is awesome seeing the Guardian again.
When Carl said that line, at 4 in the morning I screamed... I KNEW IT!!!
That was sooooooooo cool!
When that scene came up - so much out of the blue, I exclaimed out loud - OMG I don't believe it!!!!!!!
Janeway crawling out to the portal. Lol
Maybe a variant from the year of hell?
After traveling through different times and universes, Michael is still really surprised that Philippa went back to the Terran universe, spent three months there, and came back to the same time she left. lol
I mean to be fair, seeing her the entire time and her being gone for 3 months and having data for that three months would be a bit of a shock. Each time they've travelled universes or through time they've done so physically and were absent for that time.
No kidding, when he revealed himself I got chills.
One word -- Awesome!
"You can't just live in doorways." "Who are you?" Compare with "I woke up in a Soho doorway, a policeman knew my name."
When he said that, in the voice, I literally cried. I was about 11 when I first heard that.
You cried? From a science fiction TV show? Well, aren’t you the most special kind of snowflake? Do you play with Dollys too, precious?
agreed! quite nostalgic.
Me too.
@@bob494949 imagine needing to be this much of a jerk
@@baldesion Right? What a total fail troll. So cringe.
"Are you being or machine?" "I AM BOTH, AND NEITHER. I AM MY OWN BEGINNING, MY OWN ENDING."
Man, Brass has a new awesome job
I thought the very same thing. He fits nicely right?
@@rexgaub1229 much better than as a Madoff Lite in The Good Fight
2:23 My favorite episode. So good. Continuation of the Star Trek Original Series episode. My mind = blown.
They really showed the awesome power and mind bending awe of The Guardian of Forever…
And in one brief moment at 2:38 every old school ST fan just wet their pants.
The best scene in this two part episode !!!!! FASCINATING
The destiny and fate of worlds will be changed.
I just loved this old reference.
I called it!
i thought it was going to be a Q to be honest. guardian of forever would have been my second guess(but mostly cuz it was already spoiled for me) honestly its so funny how so many scenes and moments are getting spoiled with thumbnails and theories and everything.
Yes you're in landan😊 biker street, 🌞☀️ sunshine where unseasonably ridiculous, snow is expected😊
From his demeanor, my first guess at what he was, was a Q. I had never seen the OG series so I could never have guessed his true identity.
how can you be a trek fan and not have seen the show that started it all
Not sure why but when the guardian revealed himself at around 2:51 the shape and swirling tunnel reminded me of the doomsday machine from the TOS episode of the same name.
Fun Fact. The character William Decker, Capt. of the Enterprise in The Motion Picture, was written in the novel to be the son of Matt Decker, the fateful Capt. from The doomsday Machine episode. There was a novel written, Vendetta, in which it is revealed that the planet killer was a proto-type of a bigger engine designed to kill the Borg. Unfortunately when launched towards the Delta quadrant at them, Earth was in the way and would be destroyed. A second bigger doomsday machine is launched and TNG crew must stop it from killing innocent planets. It's also revealed in that book that warp 10 is the highest speed achievable, and if you actually get there, your atoms are spread infinitely over all reality at one time.
Discovery is hit or miss as Trek but bringing back the Guardian was an amazing move by the show runners. I just hope they consulted with Harlan Ellison's estate about it because old Harlan was very protective of his creative property
The ghost of Harlan is haunting the Federation. I met him in Vancouver in the 90's.
Discovery really upped it's game .... well done.
I am glad I wasn't the only one to absolutely love this moment.
What a timelessly great Trek revelation! 🖖🏻🖖🏼🖖🏽🖖🏾🖖🏿
This would have been the single best moment in Discovery for me (not hard, but still) if it hadn't been spoiled by some random article on my news feed on day one, before I had a chance to watch it.
Now this is how you do a freaking callback.
nice use of the Guardian's voice!
Me being a fan of the original while growing up,this scene made me cry.good job.😊😊😊
Space doughnut returns!!!!!
I was right.
*Time doughnut.
@@kasterborous1701 😂🤣🤣
Lopsided doughnut XD
YES! It's the talking time donut!
1:51 Georgiou: "There are three-months of new bio data points here!!"
Burnham: "That's impossible! You were unconscious for less than a minute!"
I take it the Guardian was also responsible for Picard's experience in "The Inner Light" planet after all.
not responsible, that was a DIFFERENT alien technology.
I don't think Picard had any physiological changes after the light
@@KGabMI not true, Crusher examines him and states that his temporal lobes and other brain functions had experienced significant time changes (years). May have also contributed to his disease in 'All Good Things'.
@@andytay5507 oh good catch!
Q was responsible for days of memories in just a few minutes for Picard in All Good Things.
This shows how much power The Guardian really has by shifting from one planet to another!!!!!!!!!! I would like to know IF The Guardian WAS used in "THE Time War" as mentioned in Star Trek:ENTERPRISE in which that War was a particular plot line through out the series!!!!!!!!!!!
If you're referring to the Temporal Wars, then yes he was. In this episode, Carl/The Guardian says that he hid himself away because the warring factions of the Temporal Wars were using him to commit atrocities across time.
There's a TNG easter egg on the newspaper "carl" shows off. If you look closely, one of the headlines reads "starship U.S.S. Jenolan reported to be missing"
I love how they tied in the voice of the guardian from TOS!
This scene RULES!!!!
She has an Oscar now!
Man this is the best discover yet hands down 👏👏👏😁😁😁😁😁😁😁
The best episode of “TOS” ever. Why Kirk never married. Edith was his one true love. Besides the Enterprise of course. Nimoy said the final scene always got to him
I wish we could have seen where she landed, learning where the divergence between the universes began. I actually care more about that than the burn, ha.
We might see on “Section 31” series!
🙏🏾❤️☺️🖖🏾
Its certainly before First Contact as we saw in one of the episodes, the mirror universe Cochrane shot the Vulcans when they landed
@@M4ppleyard not necessarily, it could be in the same time period as ENT.
The first know crossover into the mirror universe was in ENT.
@@xandersnyder7214 When in ENT was there a cross over? During those two episodes Mirror Flox mentions how novels and stories of the two universes feature similar characters but appear more weaker. Which might suggest the divergence started a long time ago...
@@umairbutt1355 Its a pair of eps called "In a Mirror Darkly" during season 4
I suggest you youtube the opening credits
THAT..................... Is one of the most bad assed scenes ever in Star Trek!!!!
This scene, the throwback to my childhood in such great quality with its original voice had me squealing like a little schoolgirl on the edge of my seat for a few minutes straight!!
God, when he says who he is in the original’s voice🥲🥲
Cue the Witcher music and Geralt swinging Aerondight when that door blew up.
Haven't watched Discovery before (when I heard that Spock's family and back story were altered in this version I wasn't interested), but scenes like this make me think that maybe I should check out the show. The Guardian of Forever? Wow!!!
It wasn't altered per se but a part of it was explored that was never mentioned before. At the end of season 2 it is explained why it is never mentioned before previously.
The original voice was a nice touch. Captain Brass was an added bonus too.
Yeah, i love jim brass, as well. check out CSI Vegas, now on tv(yes, i know this is supposed to be about Discovery.).
@@lotsalube I’m an episode behind but I love it.
Man I want a nice cigar now!
Ok, that was definitely a nice feeling hearing that sound bite! Us old Trekkies knew who he was all the time! Let's not forget that was the voice of James Doohan = Montgomery Scott!
No. That was the voice of Bart LaRue. The original guardian. Doohan did the voice in the animated version but not the original episode.
This is an imperfect show but that scene gave me chills.
The fact they brought back the oldest foe the TOS era was something I did not see coming
That scene was awesome! I jumped up out of my chair!
I see the thumbnail and the first thing that comes to my mind is : Jim Brass?!
Former cop plays a time donut.
ByAhhh....a bridge to the past....apropos ❤😏👍
Even if I knew nothing - absolutely nothing at all - of Star Trek, the title of 'GUARDIAN OF FOREVER' would still sound f***ing AWESOME.
Comparing the delivery of the line with the original show, it was slowed here by about 20 percent, along with a few tonal tweaks.
This is my favorite
Thought it was Q turns out it was even better.
Why would you think it’s a Q? The Roddenberry crap is OVER.
Roddenberry, Berman, and Braga insulted Star Trek fans on a weekly basis by not delivering good material.
@@brettwalters-n4u Eat the bird. It was HARLAN ELLISON that created the GOF, moron. Roddenberry stole the idea. It’s well documented. Why wasn’t it ever explored again in TNG, DS9, or VOY, you troll?
@@brettwalters-n4u amp.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/2clrhz/who_was_right_gene_roddenberry_or_harlan_ellison/
@@travisjames1437 Considering that those three men essentially ARE Star Trek, I'm going to assume you just don't like Star Trek.
If only Carl could be the Cleveland baseball mascot.
I knew it was Jim Brass the moment I saw him. It was great to see him again.