Thank you very much for the video. My mother in-law has a parkray fire, back boiler and water cylinder. For years the circulator pump has not worked not the immersion heater in the tank, but the fire is kept 🔥 going all year. The only time the fire is out of to clean clinker, which is almost never. Last weekend my mother in-law suffered a stroke and is currently in hospital, thankfully she does seem to be improving and on the mend. The fire has been out for a week and while my mother in-law is not there I thought it would be the best time to replace the pump, imersion heater, add isolation valves to the cold in to tank Inc drain off, hot water out, move the incoming stop cock for easy access, all valves Lever ball just for ease if required. I'm not a heating engineer, but I do renovations focusing predominantly in kitchens and bathrooms. I have drained countless systems to add, alter both heating and potable water. Everything was going amazing, my biggest concern was releasing the imersion heater element. I had to warm the flange with torch and some taps on the immersion spanner and it came right out, filled the tank to check for leaks and was fine. Down stairs there is a narrow cupboard where the pipes, drain cock and pump. The pipe is old imperial pipe of 1" the drain cock an the bottom, opened it up to drain the rads, I also drained the potable hot water to replace a valve. water was draining I went to buy the replacement element, filled the tank for potable water when I got back but it seemed to take forever to fill. When I went outside I noticed the hose still draining........that threw me off completely, so I shut off the drain cock on the flow pipe and the tank filled up including the SINGULAR water tank in loft, and I'll be completely honest and say I thought nothing of it and connected the new element to the electrical supply. Waited for a good hour or so to check functionality and for weeps on the compression fittings, all was good. Run the hot water from the taps and the water is dirty and that's not acceptable at all, I understand how indirect cylinders work with regards to the coil splitting and contamination of potable water and the tank to be replaced. This video has been extremely helpful and I can't thank you enough 👍👍👍👍
I remember when I started plumbing, our company only fitted baxi back-boilers or potterton. We also fitted solid fuel back boilers with galvanised gravity hot water primary. Combis we’re a novelty. I remember unvented coming in and you needed a ticket to fit them. No pushfit, hand threading. It was Corgi back then. I’m glad Im retired.
Great video, can I ask what you do with the 28mm flow and return pipes from the boiler to the cylinder? Do they just get capped off or removed all together? Thanks
Excellent Video. I have a primatic cylinder which on occassion emits a loud gurgling noise (somewhat alarming)! I do wonder why Derek says that when the system is drained the cylinder has to be replaced? Our system has been drained but still seems to work.
terence hurford I don’t think I said if the system is drained you have to replace I said if you loose the air bobble your cylinder might need replacing. Thanks for watching cheers
Hi Derek, long time sine you trained me on my level 2 @ Stockport😀I have client that I was doing some work in the loft and noticed an f&e but with no vent??? It’s fully pumped set up with 2 2 port zone valves. I had a quick look at the cylinder. But the airing cupboard was rammed with cladding and towels. Plus it was the end of the day and time didn’t allow further investigation. FYI the ch was on and the noise of water flowing through the cylinder was very noticeable. Other than draining down the ch and seeing if this empties the cylinder. Is there any other way of assessing the cylinder? Great video as always👍
If it’s fully pumped it is normally a sign it’s not a primatic cylinder but you never know. They probably removed the vent pipe because it’s pumping over but again just guessing until you do a full investigation 👍🏻
Btw it’s David Hamer here in Macclesfield. Back on this. If I drain off the hot water and CW cistern in the loft this should also drain down the f&e. it’ll be a lot easier than draining off a radiator drain off (that probably won’t work or will leak after). Albeit more wasteful of water? Stop cock shut, all hot taps on… 👍
If you’re converting a primatic to a normal open vent cylinder with a new f&e tank, do you connect the feed pipe from the tank into the cylinder’s cold gravity inlet, and the expansion pipe into the cylinder’s hot gravity inlet?
I have changed a primatic clyinder which used to run of a oil boiler, Had a rayburn fitted with twin coil gravity cylinder plenty of hot water coming from rayburn but the hot water in the cylinder is not getting warm never mind hot.The coil is getting hot and kicking in the radiators but they are going on and off every 30 min's as not enough heat from cylinder to keep heat up in rads . any clue
terence hurford if the pump is on the return close to the boiler yes it means when the heating and hot water is on and the pump is running if it’s set too high a speed it can go up the flow to the cylinder and affect the bubble in the cylinder. Hopefully it’s not that 🤞🏻
@@tomkatgastraining I can't be absolutely sure, but I have a feeling that it has happened when only the HW is on. I'll have to check that in future. Presumably, if the bubble is broken the HW mixes with the CH water?
Great job Derek, was that a hilti or Milwaukee sds drill? Great explanation on the primatic cylinders and the pitfalls to look out for :) Thanks, Hussain
@@tomkatgastrainingPricey but the best :) It would be good to see a mini series of power tool reviews on your channel. They seem to be popular on RUclips
I'm a time served retired plumber but I still enjoy watching the trade and yours is the best explanation I have seen. Happy Venting!!
I've had primatic cylinders explained to me before, but this is the first time it has actually made sense!
Never heard of primatic cylinder before until watching this. Well explained. Thank you 👍🏻
Asian Jon. Training.
Thank you very much for the video. My mother in-law has a parkray fire, back boiler and water cylinder. For years the circulator pump has not worked not the immersion heater in the tank, but the fire is kept 🔥 going all year. The only time the fire is out of to clean clinker, which is almost never.
Last weekend my mother in-law suffered a stroke and is currently in hospital, thankfully she does seem to be improving and on the mend. The fire has been out for a week and while my mother in-law is not there I thought it would be the best time to replace the pump, imersion heater, add isolation valves to the cold in to tank Inc drain off, hot water out, move the incoming stop cock for easy access, all valves Lever ball just for ease if required. I'm not a heating engineer, but I do renovations focusing predominantly in kitchens and bathrooms. I have drained countless systems to add, alter both heating and potable water.
Everything was going amazing, my biggest concern was releasing the imersion heater element. I had to warm the flange with torch and some taps on the immersion spanner and it came right out, filled the tank to check for leaks and was fine.
Down stairs there is a narrow cupboard where the pipes, drain cock and pump. The pipe is old imperial pipe of 1" the drain cock an the bottom, opened it up to drain the rads, I also drained the potable hot water to replace a valve. water was draining I went to buy the replacement element, filled the tank for potable water when I got back but it seemed to take forever to fill. When I went outside I noticed the hose still draining........that threw me off completely, so I shut off the drain cock on the flow pipe and the tank filled up including the SINGULAR water tank in loft, and I'll be completely honest and say I thought nothing of it and connected the new element to the electrical supply. Waited for a good hour or so to check functionality and for weeps on the compression fittings, all was good. Run the hot water from the taps and the water is dirty and that's not acceptable at all, I understand how indirect cylinders work with regards to the coil splitting and contamination of potable water and the tank to be replaced.
This video has been extremely helpful and I can't thank you enough 👍👍👍👍
Another great video always great to watch with my coffee in the morning . Keep them coming 👍
Brilliant video Derek ❤
Loving the content as per usual 😉 your book can only explain so much
but your uploads put it all into proper perspective ! Thanks for sharing 👌
Thanks Derek.
one again probably one of the best videos on this out there thanks
I remember when I started plumbing, our company only fitted baxi back-boilers or potterton. We also fitted solid fuel back boilers with galvanised gravity hot water primary. Combis we’re a novelty. I remember unvented coming in and you needed a ticket to fit them. No pushfit, hand threading. It was Corgi back then. I’m glad Im retired.
Thanks for doing this video. You explained it perfectly. 🙂
And one more informative video thank you Derek.
Thanks Derek great video 👍👍
Great explanation And great video. Keep up the good work. 👍
Interesting to hear a Primatic can get a non-repairable "broken bubble".
Great video, can I ask what you do with the 28mm flow and return pipes from the boiler to the cylinder? Do they just get capped off or removed all together?
Thanks
Excellent Video. I have a primatic cylinder which on occassion emits a loud gurgling noise (somewhat alarming)! I do wonder why Derek says that when the system is drained the cylinder has to be replaced? Our system has been drained but still seems to work.
terence hurford I don’t think I said if the system is drained you have to replace I said if you loose the air bobble your cylinder might need replacing. Thanks for watching cheers
My 60 yr old primatic has always gurgled loudly when the bubble is released as the water heats up & expands. Nothing to worry about!
Hi Derek, long time sine you trained me on my level 2 @ Stockport😀I have client that I was doing some work in the loft and noticed an f&e but with no vent???
It’s fully pumped set up with 2 2 port zone valves. I had a quick look at the cylinder. But the airing cupboard was rammed with cladding and towels. Plus it was the end of the day and time didn’t allow further investigation.
FYI the ch was on and the noise of water flowing through the cylinder was very noticeable.
Other than draining down the ch and seeing if this empties the cylinder. Is there any other way of assessing the cylinder?
Great video as always👍
If it’s fully pumped it is normally a sign it’s not a primatic cylinder but you never know. They probably removed the vent pipe because it’s pumping over but again just guessing until you do a full investigation 👍🏻
Btw it’s David Hamer here in Macclesfield. Back on this. If I drain off the hot water and CW cistern in the loft this should also drain down the f&e. it’ll be a lot easier than draining off a radiator drain off (that probably won’t work or will leak after). Albeit more wasteful of water?
Stop cock shut, all hot taps on…
👍
Excellent ❤️
If you’re converting a primatic to a normal open vent cylinder with a new f&e tank, do you connect the feed pipe from the tank into the cylinder’s cold gravity inlet, and the expansion pipe into the cylinder’s hot gravity inlet?
Did you leave the original 28mm pipe runs in? Great video as always
oneloveonelifeman the 28 mm pipes are redundant now going to the cylinder so they were removed
That’s a Cyltrol valve on the return from the cylinder.
Good morning Derek can you tell me please if with this system can be used a 3 port valve.Thank you and stay safe
Primatic cylinders can not go on a fully pumped system so no you couldn’t use a 3 port valve hope that helps
Thank you very much definitely helped me.All the best Derek!!!
I have changed a primatic clyinder which used to run of a oil boiler, Had a rayburn fitted with twin coil gravity cylinder plenty of hot water coming from rayburn but the hot water in the cylinder is not getting warm never mind hot.The coil is getting hot and kicking in the radiators but they are going on and off every 30 min's as not enough heat from cylinder to keep heat up in rads . any clue
It dose have a f and e tank fitted and heat sink rad runs nice and hot
Hi, thanks very much for your reply. Have you ever come across the gurgling noise I mentioned? It sounds like air bubbles being blown off.
Yep but only when the system has been made fully pumped
@@tomkatgastraining Hot water gravity feed. CH pump on return as far as I know. Should I be worried?!
terence hurford if the pump is on the return close to the boiler yes it means when the heating and hot water is on and the pump is running if it’s set too high a speed it can go up the flow to the cylinder and affect the bubble in the cylinder. Hopefully it’s not that 🤞🏻
@@tomkatgastraining I can't be absolutely sure, but I have a feeling that it has happened when only the HW is on. I'll have to check that in future. Presumably, if the bubble is broken the HW mixes with the CH water?
Dave Thompson. 👍
Can a primatic cylinder be on a system with a pump and a 3 port? I’m assuming not?
You are correct
Great job Derek, was that a hilti or Milwaukee sds drill? Great explanation on the primatic cylinders and the pitfalls to look out for :)
Thanks, Hussain
It’s hilti mate
@@tomkatgastrainingPricey but the best :)
It would be good to see a mini series of power tool reviews on your channel. They seem to be popular on RUclips
Clytrol valve on cylinder
CH 👍
chris Taylor