There is an anecdote recited by an English authority (he even wrote a pamphlet!) on dueling. He was a witness to a duel between an ordinary man and a man who was known as a regular duelist. In the actual duel, the ordinary man discharged his weapon and missed. The semi professional man pulled his trigger and his pistol misfired. He insisted that he was due another shot. But the "specialist" interposed, saying that if the pro got a second try and killed his opponent, he would see the duelist hanged for murder. The specialist pointed out the participants were required to stand and "receive fire;" but that it was not the ordinary man's fault the other man's pistol misfired. He had stood to the effort and done his part...and that was sufficient to satisfy his honor. While duelists might wish for the death of their opponent, the practice was a test of courage and honor, not bloodthirstiness.
That is what a lot of media and subsequently the public get wrong: The important part was not the chance to harm your opponent. The important part was being seen exposing yourself to the chance of harm and death (ideally with a gentlemanly demeanor and attitude)
Lermontov once mocked his friend for making a fool of himself cosplaying as a Circassian, in front of women. Said friend called him on a duel, Lermontov couldn't believe, but went there and when the coin flipped for him to shoot first, he deliberately shot away as anyone actually willingly dueling is a serial killer psycho maniac. The friend killed him on the spot. Anyone romanticizing duels is a psychopath.
To be fair, I think the move to pistols was because they were actually less likely to be lethal than a fight with swords. One shot each, you both miss, you can call honour, (a dirty word), satisfied, and end it. With swords, it has to go on until someone gets hurt. Not that pistol duels weren't dangerous, just a bit more controlled. Give Ridley Scots "the Duelists" a look.
Sword duels are probably more likely to injure both parties. It is incredibly difficult to go in for the kill with a sword without being struck yourself
Sword duels though were generally ended when someone was cut, which normally wasn't anything serious. Getting hit by a large ball of lead that took a bit of clothing with it was often fatal.
@@FelixstoweFoamForge You see this in fencing where points are given to the one who hit the other faster by a factor of milliseconds. Even the best swordsmen wouldnt have a long duelling life. An expert marksman with a high quality pistol however could just keep dropping them
You could genuinely have only watched Mike Loades on Time Commanders, never seen him for 20 years and instantly recognise his energy within moments now. It's amazing.
The last fatal dual in Canada was John Wilson - my ancestor. Was over a girl. He was a lawyer and defended himself in court, did a few other important things in early Canada.
@@masqerader no. Check your facts before mansplaining. The last fatal duel in Upper Canada [Ontario] took place in Perth 13 June 1833. Defending his honour, John Wilson shot and killed Robert Lyon, who had called him a liar and assaulted him. Wilson and his second were charged with murder, but were acquitted.
Interestingly, Church also fought a duel against Burr, shooting off Burr's vest button. Church had his pistols made specially in England, and they've 'found' to be rigged, or at least one was. It's Interesting though, that the Hamilton faction went after Burr because he had won the governorship of New York over their shared father-in-law. Hamilton being 'anti-duel' is perhaps revisionist history, due to having been in duels before, even one against James Madison, which Burr apparently dissuaded.
It should be noted that a 'pace' is actually the distance covered between the time you lift a foot and the time you put it back down, half a pace is a step.
As always Mike, Terrific narrative. If only you could have been my History teacher. I'm 78 now and my History teachers were all good, But you would have been GREAT.
13:58 "Lots were drawn to establish who had the right of first fire. If he missed, the duelist who had fired first was obliged to stand his ground and receive his adversary's return fire." OMG
Ive seen on another channel a pair of black powder dueling pistols that were designed to shoot wax bullets, it was thought of as a sport, you would wear a face guard and shoot at each other for fun......😮 it would hurt but not kill, kind of like modern day paintball.
Cassius Marcilus Clay was a renowned American duelist and abolitionist from Kentucky. By the time he graduated college he was known as the deadliest duelist in America
Riffling does not reduce ‘oscillations’ necessarily but rather imparts gyroscopic rigidity to the projectile thereby improving the firearms accuracy compared to a non-riffled firearm.
No. The projectile will have surface imperfections that deflect it as a result of air resistance. When it spins, these imperfections are effectively presented in all directions, so the projectile doesn't veer (or, if you like, a deflection to the left is rapidly cancelled by a deflection to the right).
@@chriswalker2753 That´s the case in arrows. A curved path is effectivey turned into a narrow cone. Firearm projectiles usually spin much faster, to the point were gyroscopic effects do play a role.
On youtube there is always one so- on -so an armchair general ''expert''who knows better who thinks he's found an error to chip in to challenge a figure like mike Loades it's so laughable well done sir 4123
This is actually very complex, so I think his explanation was good enough for most persons, but I think he should have left out the word 'oscillations'. The oscillations are more of an issue for non spherical projectiles, which most are. Dueling pistols not so; as it is a sphere and why much less rate of rifling is needed for a sphere. The gyroscope effect is secondary and the effect of having the spin of the ball primarily being perpendicular to the barrel line is primary, while dynamic effect of the spin on the interaction with the air is also lesser with a sphere. The ball is going to be spinning if it is fired, the rifling makes sure the spin is primarily perpendicular to the flight path. If the projectiles is nonspherical, the given explanation fits better, and the gyroscope effect on the damping of oscillations and the mitigation of deflections cuased by imperfections in the projectile and inconsistency in the air are much larger factors. Spherical projectiles is effectively a special case where the effect of the rifling is on a lesser component and so much less rifling is needed. The needed spin for a ball is usually less than a twist per foot, where modern projectiles need several twists per foot to damp oscillations and deflections imparted by the air.
Wellington had said, "Real men didn't duel pistols, real men dueled with cannon." This may be anecdotal but it certainly sounds like the Iron Duke's dry humor.
I have seen the pistols in Kirkaldy museum - it was surreal to think the part they played in the history of duelling. They looked very powerful and not a little bit intimidating - I can image the tremble in the users arm of one who is not familiar with them. This makes the killing of a seasoned soldier like Morgan even more unbelievable at the hands of the novice Lansdale. One small ( and pedantic) point is the information that accompanies the pistols. It said that the first duel (the one where someone died before the Morgan/Lansdale duel) took place in South Queensferry - it didn't. It took place near North Queensferry - a distance of 2 miles away as the crow flies and 5 miles by road. There is a plaque atop the hill that overlooks North Queensferry where it took place.
It's worth drawing a distinction here. "Hair trigger" is a condition that can be created in almost any gun by reducing spring pressures, friction and the angles and depth of engagement between the sear and the cock or hammer. This can certainly result in a very crisp light trigger, but the action can be susceptible to involuntary discharge, after any sort of bump, for example. A set trigger gun creates a light trigger pull by having an additional mechanism between the trigger and the sear. This mechanism is designed to release with a very short light trigger press and it uses a spring, much lighter than the main action spring, to drive a "hammer" of sorts to knock the sear out of engagement. Because of its careful design and construction this is a much safer and more consistent arrangement, not least because it is normally, as said, only engaged just before the shot is to be taken. If the trigger is not set it feels and behaves like a normal trigger.
My family story has it that my great great grandfather was a British nobleman who married a common woman. This was looked down upon at the time and resulted in insults and a duel. We don't know if the duel was with swords or pistols, but my ancestor won the duel. Dueling was outlawed and to avoid prosecution he and his wife fled England and settled in the Colonies. Eventually they settled in what would become Muncie Indiana.
Best duel ever has the be the one in the movie 'Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines' where they duelled with blunderbusses from hot air balloons! There is a story it was based on the legend of a duel between two Frenchmen, Monsieur de Grandpré and Monsieur le Pique, who decided to settle a dispute over a lover by having a balloon duel in 1808. The story goes that the men constructed identical balloons and went up in the air at 9 o'clock in the morning with their seconds and armed with blunderbusses. The balloons ascended from the gardens of Tuileries surrounded by a crowd of curious onlookers who thought they were observing a balloon race. After a signal was given, le Pique fired the first shot and missed. Grandpré then fired, his shot hit its mark and le Pique’s balloon collapsed and descended with “fearful rapidity” which then hit a house top and they were both "dashed to pieces." How the hell le Pique missed a hot air balloon with a blunderbuss is anyone's guess!
Well done but for one thing. A well tuned flintlock is quite fast in firing. You can barely, if at all, distinguish between the ignition time of a percussion gun and a flintlock.
I'm surprised you didn't go more into the rules of dueling specifically cause it's complex with order of shots based on the disagreement and everything.
Very few face-to-face gun fights took place in the American Western frontier. It's mostly a Hollywood invention. The reality is that gun violence was not as common in American West as is popularly believed. Most frontier municipalities actually forbade the carrying of loaded firearms within city limits. BTW, most working cowboys did not own a revolver. During the Western frontier era a revolver cost $30-$35 which was a month's pay for the average cowboy. The most common firearm owned by a cowboy was a cheap imported (mostly from Belgium) shotgun.
I believe the last fatal British duel took place in 1845 at Browndown beach near Portsmouth between a Mr Seaton and Lt Hawkeye RM. Seaton died of his wounds in the Quebec hotel which still stands at the entrance to Portsmouth harbour.
To understand the lethality of black powder handguns, study the "shootout at the OK corral". Most of the participants suffered gunshot wounds and the losers often had dozens of pistol wounds. The only "one-shot-kill" was the poor schmuck that got both barrels of Doc Holiday's Greener. I did a bit of terminal ballistics with my Ruger NMA and was quite surprised how much less effective black powder was than smokeless powder.
The classic western "high noon" shotout only occurred once to our knowledge and that was quite impromptu between "Wild Bill Hickock" and a man who had wone his pocket watch in a card game. It was still an excellent piece of shooting by Hickock, but it was not an arranged meeting. There are no recoreded accounts of arranged draw-and-shoot duels in the American West. In fact, most gunfights, such as the OK Corral were fought with rifles and more often, shotguns, with postols being mostly close-in personal defense weapons and rifles used at long range. The, usually "sawed off [with the barrel shortened so there was no choke]" shotgun was at its best as an intermediate range weapon
Midway through the video, it's interesting that James Landale bears a notable physical resemblance to his ancestor David Landale, who is how many degrees his great-grandfather? You'd expect a man's features to wander pretty far from that remote an ancestor, but they haven't stayed very far at all in this case.
Ah Mr. Loades, found you at last. I am trying to find a video detailing how military leaders at the start of W.W.I were not prepared for the results incurred by the use of modern weapons with 19th, 18th, 17th and so forth century tactics. The example displayed was the use of machine guns and balloons representing soldiers, about 6,000 balloons placed in a field as I recall. Was that one of your earlier videos??
It is likely that these duels were very famous in the Anglo-Saxon world, but to say that they were the most important duels in the world is saying too much. There have been gun and sword duels throughout Europe, even between one man against several opponents at the same time and There were also famous duelists who fought throughout Europe. "Diego de Paredes" is an example, but not the only one. Great report. Congratulations
I read many years ago that some dueling pistols were deliberately set to shoot very high, meaning that a center hold would send the ball over your opponent’s head. One presumes that the owner would know how the pistols were sighted, which seems unfair to say the least.
If you haven’t already, can you address edges weapon-delivered facial “dueling scars” and how they were actually coveted in some regard by the “recipients”?
I know the scope of the video is duelling pistols but the title is broad, so I wonder if in a future video you could feature some Lorenzoni System or Kalthoff firearms? Pre-cartridge repeating firearms are very cool.
Dueling needs to be legalized world wide. If two people or for that matter wish to engage in mutual combat then it is their business and no one else's.
@@tbjtbj4786It would transform ordinary lawsuits into Premeditated Murder, as duels were since the time of King Athelstan of Wessex. And transform “lawyers” into gunslingers, as happened in an episode of “Sliders” where Benjamin Siegel, Esq. was the grandson of “Bugsy” Siegel the famed gangster.
If you've never shot a gun with an actual hairtrigger, you have no idea how little force may be needed to have a gun go off. I used to own an old olympic air rifle. There was very little travel, though after a while you would develop a feeling for it and would know exactly where the trigger would break. But even so, an extreme minimal amount of force was needed.When you go back to something with a regular trigger, it tends to make you feel a bit spoiled.
Interesting question: 18th C you're dealing with highly inaccurate weapons, but much larger caliber shot. They are much slower projectiles so they tend to smash and splinter bones. Modern projectiles are generally much higher velocity and with self defense ammo they're hollow point, rather than FMJ. However ammunition today are of a much smaller caliber. generally. I'd probably say it's down to the relative quality of medical care in the 18th v. 21st C. I'd rather be hit today than back then.
They were not highly inaccurate, original smoothbore flintlock duelling pistols can produce a group of ten shots less than four inches diameter at twenty five metres. they were usually about .50" calibre with a muzzle velocity, if loaded with full powder charge, comparable to a modern pistol.
@@dp-sr1fd I would love to see someone have a four inch grouping with 10 shots at 80 feet with a smoothbore pistol. I mean with consistancy and not a one off feat of expert marksmanship or luck. I really can't see that.
@@ManiusCuriusDenatusThe World record score for the "Cominazzo" event with an original smoothbore flintlock pistol is held by a German his score was 94 out of 100. The event is shot on a PL7 target. The ten ring is two inches diameter and the nine ring is four inches diameter, that means he got four out of ten shots in a two inch bull's eye and the other six in the four inch nine ring. Many competitions are held with muzzle loading firearms both nationally and internationally at ranges up to one thousand yards with original and reproduction firearms. I have been a member of the Muzzleloading Association of Great Britain for thirty five years and have witnessed some incredible shooting.
@@ManiusCuriusDenatus It is a very rewarding sport, to both collect and shoot these fascinating firearms is really good. We do have a website and shoot mid and long range at Bisley and there are local branches up and down the country. Sadly we are struggling to keep membership because it is difficult to recruit new members due in part to the difficulty in getting the appropriate firearm licenses. Also shooting as a sport is always shown in a negative light in the media it seems, but it is great fun and I have met many really nice people from all over the world.
They were deadly as long as the projectile actually hits you. When rifling the barrel became a thing then the firearms from the old days were definitely deadly
you are greatly overcharging the pan. You may be doing this for dramatic effect in the video, but the lock time is much shorter with proper priming. Also, the powder should be AWAY from the touchhole.
Guns still use percussion caps. The cap is now built into the bottom of the brass cartridge, so you don't have to put the tiny cap on the gun for every shot anymore. But otherwise, all but a few exotic prototype pistols and rifles still work just like that.
@HistoryHit, "Mutual Combat" is still a legal defense for dueling in many states yet, in the USA. Don't take my word for it. Just look at Chicago today where the local prosecutor has used "mutual combat" to explain why she doesn't charge some criminals with some crimes today.
Mention Abraham Lincoln being challenged by later Union General James Shields. As the man challenged, Lincoln selected Long Swords. The dual was to be fought on a River sandbar. Their Seconds negotiated a resolution, so it never happened.
5.5lb is average at best. Many hunting rifles are 3-5lbs, and 7lbs will send most gun owners to a gunsmith for improvement. Target guns are often 2lbs or less, and benchrest rifles are around 2oz
@@rumbleinthebumble8180 your double action pull is higher, but the single action pull should be lower. My 629 came from the factory with a single action pull of 3lb 10oz. Double action pull is a little over 7
Carried on a door? Doors were, of course, far stouter, and if it was fitted with rising hinges, this would allow one to be quickly lifted free of the frame and carried to the scene of the duel. I'll see myself out.
The bit where he was testing the set trigger made me wince.. cocking a set trigger is the LAST thing you do before shooting. You cock and prime a set triggered gun with the set trigger cocked..
Seeing Mr Loades on a thumbnail is an automatic click… love this man and his knowledge and passion.
Also I his voice to me borders on ASMR, don't ask me why
Mike Loades is fantastic at telling these stories.
There is an anecdote recited by an English authority (he even wrote a pamphlet!) on dueling. He was a witness to a duel between an ordinary man and a man who was known as a regular duelist. In the actual duel, the ordinary man discharged his weapon and missed. The semi professional man pulled his trigger and his pistol misfired. He insisted that he was due another shot. But the "specialist" interposed, saying that if the pro got a second try and killed his opponent, he would see the duelist hanged for murder. The specialist pointed out the participants were required to stand and "receive fire;" but that it was not the ordinary man's fault the other man's pistol misfired. He had stood to the effort and done his part...and that was sufficient to satisfy his honor. While duelists might wish for the death of their opponent, the practice was a test of courage and honor, not bloodthirstiness.
That is what a lot of media and subsequently the public get wrong: The important part was not the chance to harm your opponent. The important part was being seen exposing yourself to the chance of harm and death (ideally with a gentlemanly demeanor and attitude)
Lermontov once mocked his friend for making a fool of himself cosplaying as a Circassian, in front of women. Said friend called him on a duel, Lermontov couldn't believe, but went there and when the coin flipped for him to shoot first, he deliberately shot away as anyone actually willingly dueling is a serial killer psycho maniac. The friend killed him on the spot. Anyone romanticizing duels is a psychopath.
Anything with Mike Loades is absolute fire 🔥
Mike Loades is a legend ... but I think we’re all still waiting for a Kevin Hicks History Hit Collaboration!!!
The French English man is back lol
History hit + history squad=history hitsquad
Not a huge fan of his!!
I'll cosign on this
@@BarrowedtimeBrian of Kevin?! I seriously think he’s the best guy out there right now ...
What is it you don’t like?
I am not into military history however Mike Loades is fantastic and has drawn me into the world of war and weaponry for decades.
You are into military histroy, that is why you are here...
Mike Loades is a great presenter
I love his energy. You can tell he loves what he does.
@@travisinthetrunk A wonderful man
To be fair, I think the move to pistols was because they were actually less likely to be lethal than a fight with swords. One shot each, you both miss, you can call honour, (a dirty word), satisfied, and end it. With swords, it has to go on until someone gets hurt. Not that pistol duels weren't dangerous, just a bit more controlled. Give Ridley Scots "the Duelists" a look.
Sword duels are probably more likely to injure both parties. It is incredibly difficult to go in for the kill with a sword without being struck yourself
@@jonathanengdahl9045 Thats my point, so yup.
Sword duels though were generally ended when someone was cut, which normally wasn't anything serious. Getting hit by a large ball of lead that took a bit of clothing with it was often fatal.
Sword duels were usually to first blood, not to the death.
@@FelixstoweFoamForge You see this in fencing where points are given to the one who hit the other faster by a factor of milliseconds. Even the best swordsmen wouldnt have a long duelling life. An expert marksman with a high quality pistol however could just keep dropping them
Never miss a Mike Loades episode!
WE DON'T SEE ENOUGH OF MKE LOADS ON TV OR ON HERE
However, we do see too many people writing in all caps here.
But sadly, we do see too many people who write in all caps like a narcissist.
But sadly, we do see too many people who feel the need to write in all caps .
Mike Loades knowledge of weapons ancient or otherwise is phenomenal. He also an exceptional historian. Or he has great writers. 😊
It sounds like dueling with bankers who wont lend you money should most definitely make a return.
It sure bloody should make a return...
My maternal grandfather's great great grandfather was 2-0-1 in pistol duals. It became an issue when he ran for president in 1824.
Brilliant piece of work! Many thanks Mike and the team!💥🏆
Thoroughly enjoyed this video! Mike Loades always does an awesome job!
Thank You for yet another great video Mr. Loades !
You could genuinely have only watched Mike Loades on Time Commanders, never seen him for 20 years and instantly recognise his energy within moments now.
It's amazing.
Absolutely fascinating. These old firearms are a treasure & a oleasure to watch in use. Thankyou.
As usual, excellent job. Mr. Loades is a treasure.
In presenting matters of historical combat, Mike Loades has no equal.
The last fatal dual in Canada was John Wilson - my ancestor. Was over a girl. He was a lawyer and defended himself in court, did a few other important things in early Canada.
Think you mean duel, also there was one apparently in Quebec in 1838
@@masqerader no. Check your facts before mansplaining.
The last fatal duel in Upper Canada [Ontario] took place in Perth 13 June 1833. Defending his honour, John Wilson shot and killed Robert Lyon, who had called him a liar and assaulted him. Wilson and his second were charged with murder, but were acquitted.
@@andrewwilson8210 yes upper Canada but not the last fatal duel in Canada which happened in lower Canada in 1838
@@andrewwilson8210
I do smell a wager, or better still, a duel with you and that other fellow, masquerader...
...so who got to shoot the girl?
Mike is my favourite historian by far!
😊
Interestingly, Church also fought a duel against Burr, shooting off Burr's vest button. Church had his pistols made specially in England, and they've 'found' to be rigged, or at least one was. It's Interesting though, that the Hamilton faction went after Burr because he had won the governorship of New York over their shared father-in-law. Hamilton being 'anti-duel' is perhaps revisionist history, due to having been in duels before, even one against James Madison, which Burr apparently dissuaded.
It should be noted that a 'pace' is actually the distance covered between the time you lift a foot and the time you put it back down, half a pace is a step.
As always Mike, Terrific narrative. If only you could have been my History teacher. I'm 78 now and my History teachers were all good, But you would have been GREAT.
Seeing him walk back and forth in front of the head-high barrel when testing the trigger pull feels just wrong.
13:58 "Lots were drawn to establish who had the right of first fire. If he missed, the duelist who had fired first was obliged to stand his ground and receive his adversary's return fire." OMG
Ive seen on another channel a pair of black powder dueling pistols that were designed to shoot wax bullets, it was thought of as a sport, you would wear a face guard and shoot at each other for fun......😮 it would hurt but not kill, kind of like modern day paintball.
'Paintball duelling' using replica period pistols. That would be an interesting business venture for settling arguments!
Sounds like the Lepage wax bullet dueling pistols. Forgotten Weapons has an episode on those.
@@brandonobaza8610 that's the one 👍
@@johncartwright8154 Alright I'm in, but only in full period costumes.
I think that's something that came after dueling was prosecuted more harshly.. like in the end of 19th century.
3:00 “parry this you casual”
Cassius Marcilus Clay was a renowned American duelist and abolitionist from Kentucky. By the time he graduated college he was known as the deadliest duelist in America
Most historians agree the Western shootout wasn’t as common as Hollywood would have us believe.
Riffling does not reduce ‘oscillations’ necessarily but rather imparts gyroscopic rigidity to the projectile thereby improving the firearms accuracy compared to a non-riffled firearm.
"Riffling" is that doing the wild thaing in her lounge room ?
No. The projectile will have surface imperfections that deflect it as a result of air resistance. When it spins, these imperfections are effectively presented in all directions, so the projectile doesn't veer (or, if you like, a deflection to the left is rapidly cancelled by a deflection to the right).
@@chriswalker2753 That´s the case in arrows. A curved path is effectivey turned into a narrow cone. Firearm projectiles usually spin much faster, to the point were gyroscopic effects do play a role.
On youtube there is always one so- on -so an armchair general ''expert''who knows better who thinks he's found an error to chip in to challenge a figure like mike Loades it's so laughable well done sir 4123
This is actually very complex, so I think his explanation was good enough for most persons, but I think he should have left out the word 'oscillations'. The oscillations are more of an issue for non spherical projectiles, which most are. Dueling pistols not so; as it is a sphere and why much less rate of rifling is needed for a sphere. The gyroscope effect is secondary and the effect of having the spin of the ball primarily being perpendicular to the barrel line is primary, while dynamic effect of the spin on the interaction with the air is also lesser with a sphere. The ball is going to be spinning if it is fired, the rifling makes sure the spin is primarily perpendicular to the flight path. If the projectiles is nonspherical, the given explanation fits better, and the gyroscope effect on the damping of oscillations and the mitigation of deflections cuased by imperfections in the projectile and inconsistency in the air are much larger factors. Spherical projectiles is effectively a special case where the effect of the rifling is on a lesser component and so much less rifling is needed. The needed spin for a ball is usually less than a twist per foot, where modern projectiles need several twists per foot to damp oscillations and deflections imparted by the air.
Thank you for a very interesting video. All the best from Sydney Australia 🇦🇺
Wellington had said, "Real men didn't duel pistols, real men dueled with cannon." This may be anecdotal but it certainly sounds like the Iron Duke's dry humor.
"Jesus christ, Wellsey, how the fuck did you haul a 16 pounder to the field?"
R 87😊@@thetruerift
I have seen the pistols in Kirkaldy museum - it was surreal to think the part they played in the history of duelling. They looked very powerful and not a little bit intimidating - I can image the tremble in the users arm of one who is not familiar with them. This makes the killing of a seasoned soldier like Morgan even more unbelievable at the hands of the novice Lansdale.
One small ( and pedantic) point is the information that accompanies the pistols. It said that the first duel (the one where someone died before the Morgan/Lansdale duel) took place in South Queensferry - it didn't. It took place near North Queensferry - a distance of 2 miles away as the crow flies and 5 miles by road. There is a plaque atop the hill that overlooks North Queensferry where it took place.
It's worth drawing a distinction here. "Hair trigger" is a condition that can be created in almost any gun by reducing spring pressures, friction and the angles and depth of engagement between the sear and the cock or hammer. This can certainly result in a very crisp light trigger, but the action can be susceptible to involuntary discharge, after any sort of bump, for example.
A set trigger gun creates a light trigger pull by having an additional mechanism between the trigger and the sear. This mechanism is designed to release with a very short light trigger press and it uses a spring, much lighter than the main action spring, to drive a "hammer" of sorts to knock the sear out of engagement. Because of its careful design and construction this is a much safer and more consistent arrangement, not least because it is normally, as said, only engaged just before the shot is to be taken. If the trigger is not set it feels and behaves like a normal trigger.
The last known pistol duel happened in Uruguay, fought in 1971 between Danilo Sena and Enrique Erro, in which neither of the combatants was injured.
Mike is immortal, i remember Time Commanders - he's not aged!
Mike is the best . He’s the guy you want to have next to you when trouble happens
I've read that dueling challenges made newspaper editor "the most dangerous occupation" in 19th century America.
The chap on the right at 33:34 is holding his piece in a most _gangsta_ fashion.
You can only admire Mr Loades knowledge of weapons and warfare.
My family story has it that my great great grandfather was a British nobleman who married a common woman. This was looked down upon at the time and resulted in insults and a duel. We don't know if the duel was with swords or pistols, but my ancestor won the duel. Dueling was outlawed and to avoid prosecution he and his wife fled England and settled in the Colonies. Eventually they settled in what would become Muncie Indiana.
Best duel ever has the be the one in the movie 'Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines' where they duelled with blunderbusses from hot air balloons!
There is a story it was based on the legend of a duel between two Frenchmen, Monsieur de Grandpré and Monsieur le Pique, who decided to settle a dispute over a lover by having a balloon duel in 1808. The story goes that the men constructed identical balloons and went up in the air at 9 o'clock in the morning with their seconds and armed with blunderbusses. The balloons ascended from the gardens of Tuileries surrounded by a crowd of curious onlookers who thought they were observing a balloon race. After a signal was given, le Pique fired the first shot and missed. Grandpré then fired, his shot hit its mark and le Pique’s balloon collapsed and descended with “fearful rapidity” which then hit a house top and they were both "dashed to pieces."
How the hell le Pique missed a hot air balloon with a blunderbuss is anyone's guess!
Well done but for one thing. A well tuned flintlock is quite fast in firing. You can barely, if at all, distinguish between the ignition time of a percussion gun and a flintlock.
Grain makes a difference too. A fine FFFF in the primer will fire faster than a coarser grain.
Great video as always, Duel is also a very interesting book, a must read for anyone keen on that era.
In Germany, duels with epees were still quiet common until 1902. Bismarck fought over a two dozens duels (Mensuren).
I'm surprised you didn't go more into the rules of dueling specifically cause it's complex with order of shots based on the disagreement and everything.
Interesting pistol duel in Forester's Midshipman Hornblower!
You mentioned firing at Will I searched the whole video and never found anyone called Will?
Very few face-to-face gun fights took place in the American Western frontier. It's mostly a Hollywood invention. The reality is that gun violence was not as common in American West as is popularly believed. Most frontier municipalities actually forbade the carrying of loaded firearms within city limits. BTW, most working cowboys did not own a revolver. During the Western frontier era a revolver cost $30-$35 which was a month's pay for the average cowboy. The most common firearm owned by a cowboy was a cheap imported (mostly from Belgium) shotgun.
Very interesting.
I always think of Colonel Mustard shouting "I challenge you to a duel!"
I believe the last fatal British duel took place in 1845 at Browndown beach near Portsmouth between a Mr Seaton and Lt Hawkeye RM. Seaton died of his wounds in the Quebec hotel which still stands at the entrance to Portsmouth harbour.
To understand the lethality of black powder handguns, study the "shootout at the OK corral". Most of the participants suffered gunshot wounds and the losers often had dozens of pistol wounds. The only "one-shot-kill" was the poor schmuck that got both barrels of Doc Holiday's Greener. I did a bit of terminal ballistics with my Ruger NMA and was quite surprised how much less effective black powder was than smokeless powder.
Well, that wasn’t a shootout, it was an execution
Good to see again Mike .Very interresti g vidéo!
The classic western "high noon" shotout only occurred once to our knowledge and that was quite impromptu between "Wild Bill Hickock" and a man who had wone his pocket watch in a card game. It was still an excellent piece of shooting by Hickock, but it was not an arranged meeting. There are no recoreded accounts of arranged draw-and-shoot duels in the American West. In fact, most gunfights, such as the OK Corral were fought with rifles and more often, shotguns, with postols being mostly close-in personal defense weapons and rifles used at long range. The, usually "sawed off [with the barrel shortened so there was no choke]" shotgun was at its best as an intermediate range weapon
Midway through the video, it's interesting that James Landale bears a notable physical resemblance to his ancestor David Landale, who is how many degrees his great-grandfather? You'd expect a man's features to wander pretty far from that remote an ancestor, but they haven't stayed very far at all in this case.
A first class film. Bravo! 👏
Ah Mr. Loades, found you at last. I am trying to find a video detailing how military leaders at the start of W.W.I were not prepared for the results incurred by the use of modern weapons with 19th, 18th, 17th and so forth century tactics. The example displayed was the use of machine guns and balloons representing soldiers, about 6,000 balloons placed in a field as I recall. Was that one of your earlier videos??
It is likely that these duels were very famous in the Anglo-Saxon world, but to say that they were the most important duels in the world is saying too much. There have been gun and sword duels throughout Europe, even between one man against several opponents at the same time and There were also famous duelists who fought throughout Europe. "Diego de Paredes" is an example, but not the only one. Great report. Congratulations
The 2 Landells old and new, bear a remarkable resemblance.
I read many years ago that some dueling pistols were deliberately set to shoot very high, meaning that a center hold would send the ball over your opponent’s head. One presumes that the owner would know how the pistols were sighted, which seems unfair to say the least.
Brilliant video. I once owned a late duelling percusion pistol (back action lock )made by Taylor of Beverley. Wish i had not sold it
A really interesting video. Thanks, I enjoyed it very much.
Those pistols are beautiful
If you haven’t already, can you address edges weapon-delivered facial “dueling scars” and how they were actually coveted in some regard by the “recipients”?
Thanks!!
Great episode and series!
Really interesting and informative. Thank you.
Watching this makes me wonder what the laws are in Britain concerning muzzleloading pistols, and also the purchase and possession of black powder.
I know the scope of the video is duelling pistols but the title is broad, so I wonder if in a future video you could feature some Lorenzoni System or Kalthoff firearms? Pre-cartridge repeating firearms are very cool.
My flint lock rifle had a 2 lb trigger. My percussion had a 3 lb trigger. On my flintlock rifle the set trigger was 8 lb but the set was 2 lb.
very very interesting! I was engrossed.
Dueling needs to be legalized world wide. If two people or for that matter wish to engage in mutual combat then it is their business and no one else's.
Nah, hand to hand combat is the way to go till death not guns.
"Between two consenting adults". I agree
Dueling wasn’t outlawed in North Carolina until sometime in the 1960s.
Sometimes I wish it was still legal.
I do to. It would stop a lot of lawsuit and a lot of modern day nonsense.
@@tbjtbj4786It would transform ordinary lawsuits into Premeditated Murder, as duels were since the time of King Athelstan of Wessex. And transform “lawyers” into gunslingers, as happened in an episode of “Sliders” where Benjamin Siegel, Esq. was the grandson of “Bugsy” Siegel the famed gangster.
"Inflammatory correspondence" ?
Crikey!
If you've never shot a gun with an actual hairtrigger, you have no idea how little force may be needed to have a gun go off. I used to own an old olympic air rifle. There was very little travel, though after a while you would develop a feeling for it and would know exactly where the trigger would break. But even so, an extreme minimal amount of force was needed.When you go back to something with a regular trigger, it tends to make you feel a bit spoiled.
There is or was a pub in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire called The Rifle Butts and it is or was on the London Road.
Now we settle disputes by making lawyers rich.
Excellent video...thank you!
Interesting question: 18th C you're dealing with highly inaccurate weapons, but much larger caliber shot. They are much slower projectiles so they tend to smash and splinter bones.
Modern projectiles are generally much higher velocity and with self defense ammo they're hollow point, rather than FMJ. However ammunition today are of a much smaller caliber. generally.
I'd probably say it's down to the relative quality of medical care in the 18th v. 21st C. I'd rather be hit today than back then.
They were not highly inaccurate, original smoothbore flintlock duelling pistols can produce a group of ten shots less than four inches diameter at twenty five metres. they were usually about .50" calibre with a muzzle velocity, if loaded with full powder charge, comparable to a modern pistol.
@@dp-sr1fd I would love to see someone have a four inch grouping with 10 shots at 80 feet with a smoothbore pistol. I mean with consistancy and not a one off feat of expert marksmanship or luck. I really can't see that.
@@ManiusCuriusDenatusThe World record score for the "Cominazzo" event with an original smoothbore flintlock pistol is held by a German his score was 94 out of 100. The event is shot on a PL7 target. The ten ring is two inches diameter and the nine ring is four inches diameter, that means he got four out of ten shots in a two inch bull's eye and the other six in the four inch nine ring. Many competitions are held with muzzle loading firearms both nationally and internationally at ranges up to one thousand yards with original and reproduction firearms. I have been a member of the Muzzleloading Association of Great Britain for thirty five years and have witnessed some incredible shooting.
@@dp-sr1fd That is fascinating. I appreciate the information. I am certainly going to look up that organization. Thanks you!
@@ManiusCuriusDenatus It is a very rewarding sport, to both collect and shoot these fascinating firearms is really good. We do have a website and shoot mid and long range at Bisley and there are local branches up and down the country. Sadly we are struggling to keep membership because it is difficult to recruit new members due in part to the difficulty in getting the appropriate firearm licenses. Also shooting as a sport is always shown in a negative light in the media it seems, but it is great fun and I have met many really nice people from all over the world.
wonderful and fascinating story thank you
They were deadly as long as the projectile actually hits you. When rifling the barrel became a thing then the firearms from the old days were definitely deadly
you are greatly overcharging the pan. You may be doing this for dramatic effect in the video, but the lock time is much shorter with proper priming. Also, the powder should be AWAY from the touchhole.
I would submit that you're in danger of becoming distracted by the abulte trival non point of this film Sir.
@@PrudenceClearwater-Ristotle And I would reply that you likely don’t know how to properly load a flintlock.
Fascinating stuff! Thanks!
What may have saved Landale was the slow firing of the flintlock pistol. Morgan missed because he was shot first while his gun hadn't yet fired.
Interesting. In this video, they said Morgan fired and missed. Where did you find this extra information about the precise timing of the shots?
The title of this vid is misleading. It's not about accuracy, stopping power or wounds. It's about the history of dueling.
Smartass. You just have a need to sound smart. The title is ok.
Yeah, it's common nowadayz, I don't like it.
Guns still use percussion caps.
The cap is now built into the bottom of the brass cartridge, so you don't have to put the tiny cap on the gun for every shot anymore. But otherwise, all but a few exotic prototype pistols and rifles still work just like that.
@HistoryHit, "Mutual Combat" is still a legal defense for dueling in many states yet, in the USA. Don't take my word for it. Just look at Chicago today where the local prosecutor has used "mutual combat" to explain why she doesn't charge some criminals with some crimes today.
Mention Abraham Lincoln being challenged by later Union General James Shields. As the man challenged, Lincoln selected Long Swords. The dual was to be fought on a River sandbar. Their Seconds negotiated a resolution, so it never happened.
A 5.5 lb trigger pull is Really lite. No wonder there were so many accidental discharges(!)
5.5lb is average at best. Many hunting rifles are 3-5lbs, and 7lbs will send most gun owners to a gunsmith for improvement. Target guns are often 2lbs or less, and benchrest rifles are around 2oz
@@moaprecision1828- I did not know that. My info comes from a S&W 686. I thought the numbers were higher, maybe I was wrong.
@@rumbleinthebumble8180 your double action pull is higher, but the single action pull should be lower. My 629 came from the factory with a single action pull of 3lb 10oz. Double action pull is a little over 7
Good thing this tradition didn't persist into modern times. Dueling Uzis would be a lot more deadly.
might be a good thing, we'd have less idiots on the planet
1ish lb trigger is common among target rifles and pistols today, and apparently was common in history as well
Enjoyed this
Carried on a door? Doors were, of course, far stouter, and if it was fitted with rising hinges, this would allow one to be quickly lifted free of the frame and carried to the scene of the duel.
I'll see myself out.
Brings to mind the dueling scene in the movie Highlander. ....😆
“I’m sorry I called your lady an old dry pussy!” 😂
Maybe you can explain the cane fighting in Congress!
I like this man from him being a expert in videos games
Thank you.
The bit where he was testing the set trigger made me wince.. cocking a set trigger is the LAST thing you do before shooting. You cock and prime a set triggered gun with the set trigger cocked..
Mike loades is a god
There is truly nothing more masculine than two dapper men in big-ass hats taking shots at each other.