How accurate are Trojan War Movies and TV shows? Helen of Troy, Troy fall of a City and more
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
- How accurate are Trojan War Movies and TV shows? Troy 2004, Helen of Troy 2003, Troy fall of a City 2018, the trojan horse, and more. This video focuses on arms armor and general dress of the ancient Mycenaean civilization that would have fought the war if it happened.
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I would love to see the next Troy movie/mini-series/show with an all Greek cast, speaking Greek-like Apocalypto or Passion of the Christ which showed people will go to the theaters to watch a subtitled movie. To me, none of the cast looks that Greek in most of these movies-would be cool to see Mediterraneans play Greeks Romans etc...
Epimetheus Well I’m European and it would be most interesting if you did a video about an old European series of the Odyssey. Which to me, is the Most Accurate OF All. It was made by Franco Rossi, with the actors Bekim Fehmiu and Irene Papas. It’s waaaaayyy more accurate and logical, ( even though it’s the Odyssey and not the Iliad, it’s the same period ). I’m not sure there’s an English version...maybe ?
Dan Neutron Yep
Osirus3296 Mostly the Greeks but not so much theRomans because even thought they have been invaded by other populations, the European DNA is very close to theirs
i did wonder if some Celtic people had much to do with mycenaen kingdoms, like trade , war or worked with them.
2222Kenneth Probably, but not in Greece itself, maybe in Italy ?
Tbh I'd love to see more actuall Greek (or atleast south european/mediterranean) actors
Agreed I would love an all Greek cast...even in Greek with subtitles like Passion of the Christ and Apocalypto proved that American audiences would pay to see a subtitled epic...I think there should be more of those
@@EpimetheusHistory There is a Greek movie but it's bad, it's here ruclips.net/video/jiWcOdMCzuA/видео.html
I love 'Iphigenia'! Though I wish they filmed 'Agamemnon' or 'Choephoroi' instead.
just cast actors who look like greeks. south europeans = spaniards, portuguese, greeks (actual greeks), italians or whatever
Revan 1313 weeeeeell you could actually say the achaean elites could have looked northern european, since they conquered the native dorians? I might be wrong but I remember reading that the Spartan Nobility were blond and their slaves and their subjects who were the original greeks were more dark haired?
Please correct me if i am wrong, I don’t have my sources at hand
I left out the Trojan Horse, because I thought most of us will be on the same page on that one, in terms of accuracy. Although there is one interesting theory I have read centers around Poseidon being the god of earthquakes and of horses in addition to the sea…Troy shows earthquake damage-so the theory goes while the city was under siege the cities walls were breached by an earthquake and the invaders poured into the gap and took the city….I think it is unlikely but interesting none the less
It would be funny if someone made a troy movie where just as the Greeks are finishing the horse there's an earthquake and the walls just crumble. So the whole movie is just a giant red herring.
@@Big_Black_Dick I cant tell if your trolling after that paragraph of pure vitriol.
👍👍🏻
@BigDirtyUncle
Haha that would be funny
The Trojan horse was not part of the original story that came in later playwrights. The original story end with the morning of hectors body.
Never forgave Troy for killing Menelaus and surviving Paris.
If you mean according to the Illiad, then you're correct but if you mean according to herotodus, then Helen was not even in Troy during the war!
Stesichoros and Euripides state the same too, but their claim really undermines the better version of the Helen story found in Homer. The events of Homer's Ilias are infinitely better if Helen isn't some eidolon (''ghost'') replacement as Stesichoros and Euripides claim, and obviously if she was actually there, contrary to the claim of Herodotos that she instead stayed in Egypt.
It reminds me of the story of Iphigenia, which is undermined by the story of her survival in Tauris rather than her actual sacrifice at Aulis - obviously the original version of her story - as the events regarding Klytemnestra and Agamemnon have more dramatic power if Iphigenia actually did die.
@@kyriakospentheides Homer only focus’ on the Final 2 Weeks of the Trojan War. It’s possible Paris and Helen returned after being away for 10 years likely unaware that the War was still going on. So they returned for what became the conclusion of the War. Paris really wasn’t a fighter. We can interoperate the duel between Menelaus and Paris as Helen interfering (as Aphrodite) in the duel, did honoring the duel, and giving the Greeks a reason to keep fighting as the Trojans disgraced the Greeks Honor. She probably also slashed him in the process. How a woman got on to the battlefield, 🤷🏼♂️ but I suppose when Trojans value Women’s say, and a girl as beautiful as Helen, you might be able to get your way here and there.
They also made Menelaus old, fat, and slow.
And they made Achilles, the man most respectful to the Gods, an atheist who desecrates Apollo's statue.
And... No Diomedes! 😮
Dude, Diomedes is a chad. He should have been in Troy@@OrphicPolytheist
Completely forgot about the BBC’s Troy abomination.
Only thing good about it was how badly it hurt the bbc. The cost to view count was terrible
BBC is the same one as the netflix one I believe
They both paid for it and aired it
Epimetheus
The bbc paid for it and sold Netflix the international distribution rights.
gimzod76 Yep but the movie wasn’t good either
Should have included Memnon from the Iliad who was Ethiopian and made Achilles Greek
Is the view count really terrible?
The first thing i would do if i could travel back in time, was to travel back and find out about if Achilles really existed.
The gods were (are) real
@@logat1847 Okaii
@@BuriedAlien-TRN242 he probably had lived, but probably had a very high combat capability, not an actual immortal or anything like that. That story was made from mouth to mouth, or from papyrus to papyrus, to spread propaganda
Great video topic. Im still longing for the day when we see a good depiction of bronze age warfare/society in a movie, or just a movie set in the bronze age at all. So many epic historical time periods are constantly overshadowed in media by the dozens of average blockbusters about THE ROMAN EMPIRE or THE CRUSADES.
But Rome is awesome :d
@@quantumtree9276 yeah rome is awesome but it overshadows so many other really cool civs which could have their own movies. Romes had hundreds of movies made about it its hogging the spotlight.
I would give my £££ to see that
Achilles wasn't black. just saying
u r correct...assuming he existed
They could have included Memnon from the Iliad who was Ethiopian and made Achilles Greek
He wasn't Anglo-American either.
HectorAchilles777 Achilles wasn’t white just saying
@@eball2k9 if he was an actual person, he would have been Greek.
Oh look, me and Epimetheus released pretty much the same video on the same day, what a coincidence! XD
Cool! great minds think alike. I have been on a bronze age binge last couple weeks reading all my books on the subject, just finished 1177 the year civilization collapsed is quite good
@@EpimetheusHistory i want to know more about this era ,what books would you recommend ?
@khalil Nehrou
I would recommend the A History of the Ancient Near East by Marc Van De Mieroop (No get a really good view on the evolution of the bronze age palace society and early iron age in the near east-is one of my favorite books I keep going back to. and 1177 by Eric H. Cline which is very good for understanding this time period and it's collapse. Also if you are more interested in Mycenaen warfare I would recommend the bronze age Greek warrior by R D'amato-and the Myceneans by By Louise Schofield is good for Mycenaean society and another book same name by nicolas grguric is another good one on warfare-but not as current info as the bronze age Greek warrior
@@EpimetheusHistory thanks alot
@@EpimetheusHistory Haha indeed! And same here, been trying to focus more on early civilizations, however, recently I've been focusing a lot more on Rome, trying to do some slightly different historical videos in the future. Fancy doing a collab sometime in the future? :)
You forgot to mention how Achilles was from Greece and not from sub saharant Africa
Well said! Progressivism is such a fucking joke!
The original Europeans and West Asians were Black people. Europe always had a Black population until the Colonial Era of History.
@mena seven preach it my nigga! We wuz and iz Kungzzz.
@Xrey Frrrick open your mind because the truth is stranger then fiction.
@@FrogWalrus get smart
I love it when you get casual with your critiques. Your voice kinda shines in those.
Lol, I had the same thoughts when I thought about the overall stylistic choices in Troy and other shows, as if the execs feared that of there are no recognizable touchstones that people will not know who to project on to.
To be fair in the movie Troy 2004 there was an effort made to make even the anachronistic equipment look like primitive versions of later Greek panoply. If a famous warrior like Achilles' armor and helmet looked a certain way, perhaps (within the logic of the film) it became the model prototype for later armor.
The african bronze age greeks would be quite a big unaccuracy
There is evidence for Egyptian mercenaries in the Aegean... so is possible there would be a Nubian or Ethiopian adventurer here or there but not as many as in the show...and they would very much be the subject of curiosity as the Pharoah had foreigners in his court employ from all over the place(rulers would collect foreigners as a mark of status-Like Marco Polo in the court of the Mongols...but again very very few and not assimilated
If they wanne use black people they should include the fight between the ethopian prince and achilies. From the illiat
Not just turn a greek black.
tim van rijn
True...lots of historically correct ways they could have gone...If they would have had Memnon that could have been really cool
@@EpimetheusHistory i mean they have a exualy acurate to story roll for a good african actor.
Unless this guy was so much better then anyone around him (wich i doubt) they should proably have gone with a more accuratly looking actor. Its just imposible not to see it. And to know this could have been woven to be so much better in both ways.
Ug stupid bbc network
I think it would be cool to see an all Greek cast with subtitles
I really enjoyed this and your channel in general. I've been subscribed for a while but just found this gem.
I love the bronze age.
"Those are tight!"
Somebody watches Pitch Meeting.
The most accurate version I know of the Epic Cycle is not a movie, but a comic book: Age of Bronze by Eric Shanower.
Wow that looks really cool-NEED BUY NOW-Thanks!
@@EpimetheusHistory It's a great comic, I think you are going to enjoy it
That sounds awesome
Yeah the Age of Bronze comic really gets the world of Bronze Age so right. I wish Hollywood do some research.
It is accurate to a point but de-myths it by removing the gods and supernatural elements. It is a great comic but a bit of a wasted opportunity; I'd love to see a version that was suitably mythic but had historically accurate arms and armour.
you can target next the architecture of the time and how accurate the movies and tv shows are
I thought that the architecture in troy was quite good. Troys walls looked pretty bronze age. Admittedly some of the statues were from the archaic period but i dont think that there are many surviving Mycenaean ones so i can understand why they used them.
@@kuroshthegreat8073 thats what i think too because the architecture in the netflix show seemed so primitive and without sources of how it looked like or ancient records describing it, it left me confused
I'd love to see an Troy-era film that's as historically accurate as possible. In other words, one that largely disregards the mythological and heroic aspects and tries to recreate the period around the Bronze Age Collapse. Obviously there would be limits to "accuracy" as we know little about that period but I love the idea of a film depicting the impending collapse of a civilization.
I actually wish for the opposite, I want a more mythological version done right. The British one and the tv move from 2000 both sucked. Although I don’t think it would be impossible such a film to also be “historically accurate” either.
The problem with the fall of a city series... For me, it's just that the casting was just done horribly wrong
honestly, when it comes to the casting 2004 Troy is best... And assuming they would have but have made a series instead of a movie out of it then you would definitely have seen Memnon an appropriate black character for the the story appear
The Trojan war was real, but this war didn't start because of Helen, the Queen of Sparta or Princess of Troy.
This war started because Troy was located in a geostrategic position and could control the Bosporus Straits. After Troy's defeat, the Greek tribes colonized Asia Minor and the Black Sea since there was no other power to stop them.
I think the Troy movie, despite its lack of corset armor and boar tusk helmet, had a scene of Agamemnon pointed out the benefits of seizing Troy for its Black Sea route during a war council.
And Age of Bronze did had Agamemnon contemplating about Trojan trade route when his brother reported about Paris’ kidnapping Helen.
Hush don't say that, it was for women rights of course.
@@maxpower9979 wait this implies some idiot said that. The entire affair of the Trojan War is practically the opposite of Women's Rights!
Helen could have been the reason of an actual Trojan War. Agamemnon is described as a king of Sparta despite the fact that his brother is the king of Argos. That implies that his kingdom was actually earned by him, not inherited. And knowing how politic worked in these times, it's really possible that Helen was somehow "included" in the deal that gave him his state and as such, she legitimated his claim. When Parys took her, it wasn't only the greatest insult he could possible commit. It was also a straight attack on his right to rule. And from that perspective, it's easy to understand why he was so desperate to reclaim her. But of course the fact that Menelaos had an interest in fighting the Trojans was one of the key reasons why they managed to bring whole Greece to the war.
There is very little actually written about Trojan and from my understanding none of them claim it was for "geostrategic position". What is your source?
Subscribed and notification bell rung! I love history. The more ancient the better. Merry Christmas!
Wow such a creative Video! Best history channel on RUclips!!
Thanks man! I appreciate it
@@EpimetheusHistory No problem thanx for the reply!
Loooool "It's called the Bronze Age for a reason"
You had me at 'accurate'!
I wasn't disappointed!
I always wondered about that spikey looking feathered helmet some of the Sea Peoples wore into battle.
Very fun especially tied into examples in old movies ...
You should get paid for this!
SUBSCRIBED!
Mycenean helmets were way cooler than the later Greek helmets
Boar-tusk helmets are epic looking indeed!
they look vikings
Myceneans were Greek. One of the Greek tribes anyway. Troy was Greek city as well. In the films they make them out like they are not the same but this is not accurate. Greek city states often went to war between them.
I think the later greek helmets look cooler
Corinthian helmet will always be the best
I think you should make more of this style of video of analysis and critique of popular culture representations of history.
Bravo. Great job. I am a re-enactor and the things you mentioned were spot on. 👏👏👏
Awesome! Thank you. What time periods do you re-enact?
Brilliant analysis, thank you
Not mentioning that Achilles was not black, and that there were not any of them at Troy...
actually there was this one group of Ethiopians in the Achaean army in the Iliad who were said to have been insanely good soldiers, near as good as Achilles. but for the most part yes i agree.
WE
@@StunningSteve17 wuz
@@hailgiratinathetruegod7564 kangz
It’s in the wider epic cycle I believe. This is off the top of my head so feel free to correct but Troy is in desperate state after the death of Hector. Troy recruits the amazonians to fight for them but they are slaughtered by Achilles. Troy then hires the Ethiopians led by Memnon a great African warrior who kills a Greek champion. He then does battle with Achilles and is defeated himself. Paris then kills Achilles before being killed himself and then you have the whole Trojan horse episode
This is why (for the sake of argument) if I was to adapt The Iliad and/or The Odyssey I would hire you as both art director and historical consultant the first chance I have.
I second that
My favorite armor would be hectors from the 2004 Troy, to me it looks like what a prince would wear, it’s not over the top and super expensive look while still being nicer/fancier than the regular foot soldiers armor
Good videos, very insightful.
This is a useful fast facts info dump for someone binge watching and trying to memorize details and find good references, thanks!
Wow there are some salty folks down in the comments section. Lets see yall get so bent out of shape about white washing!? (Hears crickets chirping) Yeah that's what I thought ya crooks.
I love this channel..I Love History!!😍
Me too!
"Those are tight!" Somebody's been watching Pitch Meetings!
Wow it is your first video for an overview on the movies about history.I really loved this new content.Please consider more with other people’s histories in the future.
Romans!
Mediterranean history is overrated.
Amazing video. Great insight.
Memnon was from Ethiopia (he was black) and he is in the Iliad. They should have included him, and not made Achilles Black
The Eithiopian King Memnon is a different person than Agamemnon, King of the Myceneans.
Memnon is not in the Iliad, but he is mentioned in the Odyssey.
Illiad starts from the time Achilles stop fighting for some days and stops at the death and burial of Hector. Memnon was already dead by then
@@efthimisgoysios782
That is not possible because in the Odyssey it states that Antilochus son of Nestor was slain by Memnon, who was still alive after the death of Hector, and took part in the funeral games of Patroclus.
@@efthimisgoysios782 Actually, you are both wrong. Memnon is not in the Iliad, he is in the Aethiopis. But Aethiopis is chronologically set after the Iliad. Penthesileia arrives shortly after the death of Hector, followed by Memnon.
Where is the Asian Achilles??😂😂😂
Breaking News: ACHILLES was really a girl-from Norway (lol)
I'm still waiting for an Eskimo portrayal of Achilles.
Lu Bu!!!!
Disney will make an asian Achilles if china tells them to do so.
@@flodazzle3712 well China already has an Achilles he is Lu Bu look him up so its a bit unlikely unless the Ministry of Culture is out of touch.
Nice video on the uniforms, armors, helmets and weapons of soldiers in the Trojan War. Epimetheus I think Hollywood should hire you as a historian and costumes expert when making movies base on history.
You are INCREDIBLY well versed and knowledgeable I thought I was literally the only person who gets bothered by horrendous renditions of ancient costumes and weapons in film. When I see Viking movies with the horn helmets I instantly shut it off!
Great vid. Why were shields covered with hides? I looked it up and couldn't figure it out
I believe for several reasons
1.prevent the wood from rotting warping over time; protect from elements to some extent while on a campaign.
2. Especially with the hair still on the hide, I think will provide some minor mitigation against a slash but not a stab.
3. They thought cow spots looked cool
Hahah interesting. Thanks for the reply
@@EpimetheusHistory "They thought cow spots looked cool" I guess it would make the whole army look like a herd of beasts charging.
Depicting Achilles as African is as true as depicting king David as SS officer.
I don't think there is any source on King David that described him as not an SS officer, so he probably was one, in fact we should portray him as such in the next movie about him.
@@sergios1110 there is no evidence saying xenomorphs didn't help destroy carthage we should show there vital role in the punic wars more often
Tbh considering how inaccurate the rest of the aesthetics from that TV series black acchiles is not so bad. Obviously I'd prefer an actual greek, but first put them in more accurate and functional armour
depicting any historical figure speaking English has the same issue, but I don't see you raging about that... curious
@@alldamnnamesaretaken Because a mob of people isn't trying to justify having historical figures speaking English as a noble act of representation and anyone who disagrees with it racists. Also, If you make a movie for an English speaking audience in a foreign language the box office isn't gonna be that high and many actors won't be able to perform in that language. Not to mention many of these languages are super dead.
Very good video as usual! May I suggest you to look to early bronze age Andean civilization like the Moche/Mochina for example, they seems to be very interesting but I don't really got the time to do extensive research on them
Great work.
the one in which achilles is black? about as accurate as a film about aboriginal vikings would be...
Well he fights an ethopian prince in the book so. That be more like a russian playing a german in a dday movie
About as accurate as a Chinese Indian or Iranian Viking
@@timvanrijn8239
Achilles fights an Ethiopian, Achilles wasn't an Ethiopian, in fact he is described as tall and with long blonde hair.
A better analogy would be a englishman in the role of king Shaka in a movie about the Zulu Wars.
@@FaithfulOfBrigantia thats fine too
@@timvanrijn8239
Disagree
Those hornes helmet is sure reminded me of egyptian depictions of sea people which i think they are cause homer mentioned a thousand ships
Dope channel !
Loved this. Wish you would have gone on. Especially where you cut Helen of Troy short. Maybe do a whole episode on her? What ahe might have actually looked like (if she ever really existed), and what she would have worn, what her hair style might have been, what kind of jewelrey etc. Helen of Troy is litterally the person the whole epic is named after but she gets the least love from those who retell it.
If you haven't checked it before you should read age of bronze. It's a comic that tries to depict the trojan war as close to the time period as it can.
Black Achilles...nuf said...not watching...ever.
Indeed.
Why do you care so much? Is it that much of a deal breaker
@@vcrsalesman2606 its like watching Asian King Arthur or worst White "John Wayne" Genghis khan it just pulls you out of the story.
While Zeuz being black is possible with an explanation probably in a Numibian camp as a black man is the least insane thing Zeuz has transformed to. (Golden shower Zeuz)
@@vcrsalesman2606 Because it ruins the feel of it.
Wasn't exactly white either - most accurate skin tone would be bronze, golden or honey - but yet nobody says anything bad about white depictions. I think skin colour is a minor point, really.
What’s funny is that the Greek Military have recently done tests using recreations of full Mycenaean Panopoly, and turns out it’s actually significantly easier to operate in then you’d think, just like normal platemail
Well done, sir!
Do you know the comic "Age of Bronze"? I love it! Its author tries to stay very accurate based on archeological knowledge etc. on the Bronze Age during that time period. It depicts the people (Aachens, Trojans etc.), their costumes etc.
There's a comic book called Age of Bronze by Eric Shanowar(sp?). He plays it as historical as possible, complete with visuals that represent the historical period. Gods "visions" are interpreted as dreams or mania/schizophrenia. Chariots, nobles, and princesses...
It's good stuff and actually makes me think more clearly about The Bronze Age and its various cultures.
This was great!
Awesome analysis.
Ok why they left out memnon. Memnon was a black Ethiopian king. Memnon journeying from Ethiopia with his army of Ethiopians, arrives at Troy he was a true warrior, he was considered to be almost Achilles equal in skill During the Trojan War,
To be honest he kinda religated to secondary statues in the book.
But agreed the best rolles for african actors in a illiat movie is the rolles of memmon and his army
Sudan
@@ronn4882 "Eastern Ethiopians", so more likely to be Ethiopia, Eritrea, Somalia. But back in the day those were probably "whiter" than Sudanese, Sudan has been heavily colonized by Arabo-Egyptians since the Middle Ages.
So Memnon is more badass than Achilles. Considering the latter has a GOD cheat code in his body in the first place.
@@LuisAldamiz Ethiopian at that time refered to Nubians. They were pitch Black. Modern day Ethiopians and Somali did not exist.
What is the name of the monochrome silent film in the beginning of your video? I really want to watch it!
I think it is a German silent film called Hellen in German which is spelled differently
@@jonpage5326 THAAAAAANK YOOOOOUUUU!
This is done good stuff. Please, do more videos about Bronze Age and Neolithic warfare
i really loved this video... greetings from egypt
If u have the time let's talk. This age is my fave. I've studied hard and saw things Dat are happening in our time.
The troyan war has always been fascinating to me (and so many others). Any artistic representation is interesting, at least. From those movies Troy (2004) was the most entertaining and Troy: Fall of a City feels the most close to source material (I would use it as educational material).
What I would really like to see is a Troy spin-off/reimagining in which, after they finish a 10 year war for a beatifull woman, they all realize the world they knew and love has gone to shift ... (Bronze Age collapse)
This would be a great idea, any production of the Odyssey or Aeneid should definitely feature the Bronze Age Collapse in its retelling.
I liked this kind of video a lot. wish you would do more critics on historical inspired media
Well done!!!
Love this
It’s called the bronze age for a reason guys
Why are film ppl so stupid??
3:28 and the helmet is not the only inacuracy,at least if they were some mercenaris from Abbysinia/Ethiopia
Good work
Thanks for the lesson.
Say what you like about Troy (2004) the production on the film was visually striking, the clothes, armour and sets were beautiful. I’d love to do a review on it sometime.
(Don’t trash me, yes I’ve read the Iliad)
Not to mention the film stuck very close to the source material, even using direct quotes.
Sarude Danstorm No it really didn’t, it kept the source material at a distance, with more of an emphasis on the Trojan war itself rather than the Iliad
@@rougemoons6150 I mean, the film took out the focus on the gods and several other character stories. But I've read the Iliad too, and for what they wanted to replicate, I thought they did a good job.
Sarude Danstorm oh yeah I won’t deny that it was a fair adaptation, it was enjoyable. But come on, the Greeks were portrayed as the antagonists, even though the novel is quite partial, and no the gods are a huge part of the Iliad also by the end of the film pretty much all the Greek heroes die except Odysseus. I wouldn’t say it was a loyal adaptation but in fairness I don’t think filmmakers are supposed to follow the source material without changing anything.
@@rougemoons6150 Indeed, while I personally also think it portrayed the Greeks as more antagonistic, I think it still did a good job because I see many people often confused as to who the "bad guy" is supposed to be. In that sense, I think the film actually accomplished that goal of impartiality. I also think the filmmakers went for a more realistic approch, hence cutting out all of the gods.
Please make "How accurate are World War 2 Movies and TV shows? The Crossing Part 1(by John Woo), Saving Private Ryan, Fury, Battle of the Bulge and more.
Hey Epimetheus! Could you go over the arms and armor depicted in the 2019 game troy total war? There are some crazy highly stylized units. But the normal units are surprisingly good and seem historically accurate.
Love to see your humor come out in this video 😂
Intelligent people will talk about the inaccuracies in weapons, armor and such, while lazy ignorants with certain personal issues will ONLY talk about Achilles because it's the only thing they can identify as inaccurate or because it's the only thing their brain wants to pinpoint. Either way, that says it all when it comes to their mental faculties.
@eddy giron
I would take your worthless comment seriously but I suspect if a movie came out with Liam Hemsworth cast as Shaka Zulu you would get your panties all gunched up in a wad over it and scream cultural appropriation...... waaaaahhhhh. At least people like me are consistent. Both are utterly absurd.
@@jay5775 So you're such of an imbecile to take a worthless comment seriously? I'm not stating that mine is, but in general, you would do that?!!! Man!, the things I have to read on a weekly basis are getting more out of whack.
I would prefer Chris Hemsworth as Shaka Zulu to be quite frank, he would really hammer the character on point, it would be WORTHY of watching.
Now SERIOUSLY, cultural appropriation ocurred concerning Jesuschrist just to give an example and I thought over a decade ago, "so what?!" As long as cultural loan or appropriation doesn't keep happening and the truth prevails, we will be alright.
However, since humanity wants by all means to have an issue with itself, there's no more I can do anymore.
You're comfortably ASSuming (as usually ignorant people do on the internet) that I'm not as consistent as you in my arguments; well, you just have to get to know me better aaannd that's another thing that people are not willing to do before writing like oversensitive assholes.
Plus, I don't watch films anymore, only a waste of time for any human that values their time and money.
@@eddygiron2390 And you're such an imbecile to write a rambling bunch of blah blah blah that is so tedious to read as to be mind numbing. My excuse is that I enjoy tweaking self righteous morons who insult others right off the bat in the first line of their comment simply for having a different view just to watch them have a rambling hissy fit in return. My guilty pleasure I admit. Brining out out the projection is delicious. Guess I touched a nerve huh LMFAO.
@@jay5775 Oh!, who's the worthless then? YOU, because within your uselessness you feel like you're achiving something by making someone (a total stranger) react in a negative manner, so what? Within your weak mind, you think I lose something, but like I already told you, you have to know me first before claiming anything.
But at the end, my observation of you was correct, as only an imbecile would think and act like you do.
You're the troll, and you have to explain me all of that? Why? I don't need to be aware of your deed for your satisfaction to kick in. A troll that is not even good at his choir should just kick, for the sake of the sane ones.
BLACHILLES? "It's a no for me dawg."
Some incredible stuff
Fantastic!
I think I'm pretty late on this video, but I'll still post a comment. Overall, a great video, there are just two things that I would like to point out:
1. The Trojans should be wearing Hittite clothing and armor, if one wants them to be historically accurate. The region was under various degrees of control of the Hittite Empire, the Trojans in the Iliad do practice some Hittite customs, and Luwian seals are attested in the actual archaeological site of Troy.
2. You mentioned that the boar's tusk helmet should be the most common, but when you realize that boars only have two tusks, and these helmets have something like 100 of these things, the idea that this was common wear kind of falls apart. In reality, most likely only the warrior elite would've used them, your average soldier would've probably gone w/o a helmet.
On the side note, if anybody wants to attempt a future production about the Iliad, and wants to make it as historically accurate as possible, here's my suggestion about a trilogy:
1. Film 1 would be mainly focused on the Iliad, and incorporating Epimetheus and my suggestions, about the fall of Troy. Of course, the main basics of the story would remain true, like Achilles and Hector's duel, and maybe the Trojan horse, but the point is that it would depict something more in line with the historical record and make it conceivably plausible.
2. Film 2 would be based on the Odyssey, and covers Odysseus's journey home. This film would provide a great opportunity to explore the world of the Mycenaean Greeks through Odysseus's stops, and perhaps a hint of the coming storm to come: the Bronze Age Collapse.
3. Film 3 would be based on the Aeneid, not exactly a Homeric epic, but still technically within the same universe. It would cover Aeneas's escape from Troy, his journey across the Mediterranean, and culminated in his settling in Italy, where his descendants would go on to found Rome. This would be yet another opportunity to explore the Bronze Age Collapse.
For number 3, don't forget Aeneas hook up with Queen Dido, which lay the seeds to the Punic Wars
"Get the intern to do it.."... YES!
That is what they are there for
Epimetheus, what is that kickin' song in the introductory montage? Thanks for doin what ya do.
the "get the color right" part made me 😂
Love how people are talking about Achilles like he isn’t a Myth lol
What?!?!?! B...B..But JK...Yeah... if he existed he would be Greek though
4Runner King
Good point
@Eternal Wanderer Amen to that
How do you these people aren't Hellenic
The first
I don’t know why I am happy about this
Glad that you are happy though :)
Epimetheus
And I am glad that your channel exist
I agree 100%. I love a good bit of historical entertainment but when you know thethere really tried to get the details right it makes all the difference.
Agreed. Waterloo from the 1970's might be my favorite movie, is super accurate for a movie.
@@jonpage5326 I haven't seen it but i'll be sure to check it out!
Really interesting stuff for a great story. I admire your scholarship. On your next Troy posting, I would be interested in depictions of the Walls of Troy, and maybe how the Trojan Horse might have looked, if there was one. Something else I really don't know: where did the Greeks camp, and keep their ships? Was it close to Troy or more far away? Also, did Troy have a port where commerce came in or any kind of a navy or was trading mainly overland?
See the book Troy c. 1700 - 1250 BC.
Criminally underrated video.
Yep, every time I see an image of Achilles from the BBC drama it's the helmet that instantly sticks out as being horribly, horribly wrong.
1k before 100K!
What do I think? I think you make awesome videos!
Thanks to ubisoft we have now an entire generation that believes ancient Greece was mostly female warriors with purple skin.
Which is exactly why its a great game - it is mythology not real life. What an immature racist crybaby lmao
प्रियदर्शी
“racist crybaby”
wait what? which game is it?
the sword of achilles is actually a celtic design of a bronze age sword that some hollywood producer thought it would be cooler on achilles as also to distinguish him in the movie scenes
onibashu Looks really ugly to me.
Just saying...
Celtic design? Where from? What is it called? Just curious
@@jonpage5326The prop maker for Troy said it was a mixture of different celtic design combined together, just google celtic bronze age sword and you'll see where they got their inspiration.
No it is not.This kind of sword is ancient Greek and Myceneans call it aor , the socket of this sword aortera.We have many in our museums.From the root of that word (aor) came many others that we use even in our days.One of them is aortery clip. (Doctors surgery tool)
03:38 Which helmet were the Greeks wearing? The Iliad mentions crested helms about a thousand times and the movies are loosely based on the Iliad not history books.
Epimetheus, have you read an Image comic series called "Age of Bronze"?
It's in hiatus but actually one of the more historically accurate version of Trojan War with the setting being in Bronze Age, complete with boar tusk helmet and chest-exposing female dresses.
Fo4 god sake people,5hey were no Greeks or Trojans in the war .from one side the Ahaians or the Danaos,Argeioi and on 5he other side the Troyans originally from Crete.bacically it was a civil war between the mainland Ahaian (Greeks) never the less.at that time Greeks were called the Myrmydons from Fthia a region next to Attica,Thebes.but what made it almost a world war of the era is that all the Asia Minor tribes and the Thracian tribes from the north of modern Greece were involved.possibly they were recruited an$ paid by the Hittite empire.
No. It's quite clear that the so-called Achaeans, Danaeans or Mycenaeans were the early Greeks, their language was still strangely Latin-like ("ekwos" instead of "hippos", stuff like that) but they are clearly the precursors of Classical Greeks. The elites of those city states had invaded Greece in the previous centuries, beginning c. 2000 BCE in the North and there were still remnants of the pre-Indoeuropean cultures, notably in Thessaly, Crete, etc. (Pelasgians, plausibly precursors of the Philistines).
On the other side of the Sea there had also been Indoeuropean invasions but they belonged to a very different branch, the Anatolian one (Hittite and Luwian groups). It is unknown if they had taken control of Troy (which is as such city clearly older than any Indoeuropeans) but it's possible. So Trojans were either Luwians (as were latern Lydians in the same zone) or a pre-Indoeuropean population. I lean for the latter and I'd argue that they were most likely proto-Etruscan, Tyrsenian; that would explain that a Tyrsenian dialect was spoken in Lemnos just off the shore of Troy and the (Etruscan-influenced) Roman obsession with tracing their mythical origins to Troy via Aeneas (probably a deformation of the early Greek word Wanax = King).
Luis Aldamiz although I agree wi5h some of the things you wrote ,let me highllight a few things.Hellenes( Greeks) are indigenous people of the area.didnt migrate there.the old Hellas(Greece) was the Aegean islands,the mainland from the Pelloponesse to Epirus ,where the border stands today with modern Albania.and a little over the mount Olympus was it is today Greek Makedonia.back then there were originally from Argos,refugees from a dynastic struggle.insignificent,during the Trojan war.bo5h of population and the size of their holdings.Homer doesn’t say that the people from Asia Minor and Thrace were barbarian .according to historian Thoukididis they shared many customs.only one tribe from Asia Minor it’s called by Homer barbarians.also the tribes or states from Asia Minor bordering 5he Aegean Sea,possibly spoke a similar language to Greek.plus many from the Greek mainland colonised or intermarried across the coast lines.the Hero Bellerophon from Argos comes to mind.also the historian Thoukididis writes that Greeks were known by different names in the antiquity.pelasgians were the first common name.people from the sea.we are the native people of the area.DNA has proven it ,from 10000 years ago.
@@billkaroumbalis2310 - It's very apparent, even in genetics, that the population of Greece must have changed somewhat over time until it became stabilized with Bronze Age Hellenization (Indoeuropeanization). The Neolithic people of Greece (and of almost anywhere in Europe, except NE Europe) were like today's Sardinians or in some cases (because of greater admixture with Paleolithic aborigines) like today's Basques. In Crete (and probably elsewhere in Greece) we see an extra inflow from West Asia, associated to Y-DNA J, in a second phase and later we see an inflow from the North (ultimately from the NE) which corresponds to Indoeuropean invasions that in the Greek case are relatively late, already in the Bronze Age, maybe c. 2000 BCE.
Pelasgians probably corresponds to those pre-Indoeuropean peoples that still lingered with a distinct ethnic identity in areas like Thessaly or maybe Crete. They contributed (maybe 2/3 or 3/4) to Greek genetic makeup but they were not yet Greeks (i.e. Indoeuropeans by language and religious beliefs) but something else, maybe similar to historical Etruscans (a language closely related to Etruscan was spoken in Lemnos historically).
You're probably somewhat familiar with the various layers in Greek mythology, right? The Pelasgians probably had Kronos as their chief god (and that explains why Saturn was very well considered in Italy, also influenced by that ethnic group somehow), while the Gaia layer rather seems to correspond to the beliefs of the early farmers, with similar ideas being central to Basque mythology and even the word "Gaia" being too much interpretable in Basque. "gai-a" (noun) = substance, matter, "gai" (adjective or suffix): capability (gai izan = to be able, capable), potential (ezkon-gai = bride or groom, someone who is going to contract marriage).
It's written on the wall, not just for Greece but for every single European people, except Sardinians and Finno-Ugrics, maybe Basques too: Indoeuropeanization happened and it implied at least some amount of migration in all cases. What is particular for Greece and SE Europe is the "Kronian" or "Pelasgian" intermediate layer. Even the original Indoeuropeans from the Lower Volga were eventually displaced/replaced, either by other Indoeuroepeans or by the Altaics.
Luis Aldamiz for that I have to disagree.indoeuropean is a modern invention from the nineteenth century when a unified Germany was looking to build a future and discover or invent a past.Greeks ,Illyrians ,Thracians and Minor Asia populations are distinct from the Germanic and Celtic tribes.as fo4 the indons were people Arians that migrated from the Kaspia region and conquered India where they mixed with the local population producing th3 modern Indians.the Indoeuropean myth is the same as the first humans came out of Africa.
Everyone in the comments, say Black Achilles... and you don’t mention it at all.
White Zulus it is, because historical accuracy of the actual people who were there doesn’t matter....
Multiculturalist historians annoy the hell out of me
I think he didn't mention him cause he didn't want to sound controversial (youtube is kind of a dictatorship in that sense), but he replied in some comments stating clearly that Achilles wasn't black
Grow up. The Greek Gods don't exist either. Crying about a black dude playing a fictional character is pathetic. Do you cry about white men playing Jesus?
@@nohbuddy1 Cool then. I guess we can cast Liam Hemsworth as Shaka Zulu then right? Somehow I would bet that dimwits like you would scream cultural appropriation and shit your pants over it though. At least people like me are consistent. Both are silly and offensive.
@@jay5775 No
@@nohbuddy1 Yes
I would have to say the armor they had at around of 1200 B.C., looks pretty cool.
you should do a whole movie series and focus on how you would art direct it if you had the chance
So, Greeks wuz blonde and blue eyedz and sheet?
apparently; like the vikings right.
No, but I heard they still had light skin.
@@arjansingh1777 you're aware that black Africans have light skin also right; with no outside genetic material?
@elskaesca Mediterranean is a nationality, not ethnicity. It's near africa, not europe. and all of these geopolitical terms were created by Europeans to describe African and Asian countries
@elskaesca And the Mediterranean has blacks passing for blacks. Here's real history. The Arab invasion took place in the 7th AD. 8K years ago the entire world was black. All ethnic groups came from a single source, where do you think that source came from? An Arab or a Turk?
black african achilles : #notmytroy
I love it in sci fi when people have misconceptions about the 20th century, like that there were cell phones in WWII or that we still rode horses in the 70s, cause that's basically what we do to the Greeks and Romans
When I saw this title the first thought that jumped in my mind was atrocious black Achilles of the BBC. The second thought I had was that I knew this RUclipsr wasn’t going to have the courage to address black Achilles and he didn’t.
Like his stuff but man some things separate the bold from the timid.