Gibson VS Fenders Roots - The Birth Of Tone

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  • Опубликовано: 6 дек 2021
  • Baxter and Jonathan dive into the roots of how Gibson and Fender started out as very different ides on the electric guitar and who they were made for.

Комментарии • 230

  • @PeteLamont
    @PeteLamont 2 года назад +3

    Great job not getting distracted or off topic until 9 minutes in! The side stories are always awesome too though!

  • @timothypotter2137
    @timothypotter2137 2 года назад

    The book "Play It Loud" is what started it all for me. No looking back!

  • @redheadgoins7411
    @redheadgoins7411 2 года назад

    Half way through this book right now, really good read.

  • @seanalan3252
    @seanalan3252 2 года назад +2

    Hey! I’m in Weehawken…

  • @mknchpssimmons4281
    @mknchpssimmons4281 2 года назад

    Stop planning to read it and do it already. That book is amazing!

  • @notthisnotthat
    @notthisnotthat 2 года назад

    "I like you, Clarence. I always have, and I always will." - The King

  • @DK00018
    @DK00018 2 года назад

    Good stuff guys!

  • @joshdickens8281
    @joshdickens8281 2 года назад

    Cool. I plan to check out the book.

  • @chrisconnick353
    @chrisconnick353 2 года назад

    If you guys keep talking Star Wars I’m going to have to keep watching!! 🤓 that’s at least 1/3 of why I love watching you guys. The other 2/3 is so I can see Jonathan’s beard. I’m going to check out that Canadian guy. Thanks fellas

  • @Mikey__R
    @Mikey__R 2 года назад

    I have an Epiphone Studio. It's absolutely fine!

  • @portsideguitar1981
    @portsideguitar1981 2 года назад

    I loved this book.

  • @jeffhershberger
    @jeffhershberger 2 года назад

    I read it last year, great book!

  • @jonathanbloomfield2603
    @jonathanbloomfield2603 2 года назад

    I'm reading the book right now. It's great very interesting

  • @chris_2714
    @chris_2714 2 года назад +13

    As much as their criticized for it, I like that Fender/Squier have numerous lines of guitars with something in every budget range from $200 to $2000 and up. The jump from Epiphone to Gibson is still a big gap in pricing. There's no "building up" to a high end Gibson.

    • @notapplicable328
      @notapplicable328 2 года назад +1

      Like a sg junior one of gibsons “cheapest” guitars is still $1400

    • @presmasterflash7555
      @presmasterflash7555 2 года назад

      There are a number of Gibson guitars for under 1000. I do agree with the gap statement. There is a big gap even when putting the epiphones into the equation but there is definitely some good guitars for sub 1k. I own a couple. Love them.

    • @Mikey__R
      @Mikey__R 2 года назад +3

      How about the Tributes?

    • @presmasterflash7555
      @presmasterflash7555 2 года назад

      @@Mikey__R definitely Gibson’s attempt to get a little more into the “affordable “ market

    • @Mikey__R
      @Mikey__R 2 года назад

      @@presmasterflash7555 I had a Tribute Studio around 2010 / 2011ish I think. It was a nice guitar, and I kind of regret trading for a MIA Jazz bass.

  • @kowalguitarlife9119
    @kowalguitarlife9119 2 года назад +1

    hello boys love the show .....goooooood stuff

  • @deanmccaskill5495
    @deanmccaskill5495 2 года назад

    Podcast!!! Thank you!! I gave it 5 stars and didnt even get to listen yet.... Unfortunately its the Canadian store so it may not even count haha Love u guys!

  • @jamesburge1983
    @jamesburge1983 Год назад

    You guys really should also read "The story of Paul Bigsby" Among other things you get to see photos of Paul, Les and leo hanging out. Not to mention Paul actually built a guitar for Les, pregibson. It is really fascinating to read the story of how all these guys were just buddies. Kinda neat to know that the nerdy engineers were hanging out doing the same things as all the 'cool kids'.

  • @stephenprosser6787
    @stephenprosser6787 2 года назад

    Great book!

  • @markkern5310
    @markkern5310 2 года назад +1

    Fender really is like a modular guitar. Anyone can work on one. Was my first guitar and my fav to mod.

  • @fireroadeddy
    @fireroadeddy 2 года назад +1

    I truly enjoy the two of you and your ramblings. But I have a 2016 Les Paul Studio T that I had to save a couple of years for and is one of my favorite guitars. Why all the studio hate?

  • @rstuartcpa
    @rstuartcpa 2 года назад +19

    Leo was an accountant who turned a radio hobby into a business. All his engineering starts with maximum utility. That’s what makes Fender great.

  • @BackyardCed
    @BackyardCed 2 года назад

    That Magnatone jacket I do need

  • @gshep42
    @gshep42 2 года назад

    The book is worth the read!

  • @mikefromusa6902
    @mikefromusa6902 2 года назад

    It’s a great read.

  • @cannadan81
    @cannadan81 2 года назад

    new sub...and bassman owner...love it lunar ice

  • @Iamthestig42069
    @Iamthestig42069 2 года назад

    The 60s and50s studio tribute models were way cooler than the regular studio.

  • @brucer261
    @brucer261 2 года назад

    yes the JJN Epiphone Gold Glory. I want one. Also would like to get the black one to, just so I have them both

  • @brechtloyens3892
    @brechtloyens3892 2 года назад

    please put the podcast also on deezer for the non-spotifyusers :D

  • @ScottPaine
    @ScottPaine 2 года назад +1

    I'm a Les Paul guy but I've been looking into a tele or strat. type fiddle to add to my guitarsonal.

  • @davidduston1611
    @davidduston1611 2 года назад +1

    cools vids fellas

  • @Datimdavis2900
    @Datimdavis2900 2 года назад +1

    The way Jonathan’s beard smells, Baxter would definitely get distracted and get his ass kicked in an arm wrestling contest

  • @tragedician
    @tragedician 2 года назад +6

    4:50 Fender and other guitar makers don't get enough credit for how well they've managed costs and made North American-made guitars available at affordable price points over the years. A USA Strat, a PRS S2, a Gibson Les Paul Tribute, or even a Kiesel Custom cost less today than Fender's and Gibson's early models cost in the 1950's when you adjust for inflation. The first Teles sold for $189 in the early 1950's. That's almost $2,000 today. A Strat was about $2,400 in current dollars when it debuted. A new Player Strat costs less than half that. Pretty incredible when you think about it.

    • @kurtisr2339
      @kurtisr2339 2 года назад +3

      Seconded. All of this.

    • @davidtomkins4242
      @davidtomkins4242 2 года назад +1

      Economies of scale and cnc machinery. Original fenders were all “hand made master built” of sorts. Look at howmany guitars fender makes per day now.

  • @shawncvarner
    @shawncvarner 2 года назад

    Read the book! It’s great 👍

  • @jdstan9650
    @jdstan9650 2 года назад +1

    OMG...the screenshot of Baxter smelling Jonathan's beard is my new screensaver...thank you 🙏 for hours, days, months, and years of hilarity! 🤣🤣

  • @jasonbone7033
    @jasonbone7033 2 года назад +1

    I’m not even a guitarist, but as a lifelong drummer this book enlightens not only the beginnings, but American history that changed the world. A must read for every musician. I love this channel and watch daily. It feels like I have a couple of soul brothers just down the road from Charlotte. Take care and keep up the great work!

  • @lejessman
    @lejessman 2 года назад

    I was honestly expecting a baby falcon to attack Baxter as he sniffed the beard.

  • @SV-wb8kh
    @SV-wb8kh 2 года назад +6

    Always remember that a genius was usually thought of as crazy untill their idea proved to be successful.

  • @chris_2714
    @chris_2714 2 года назад +3

    Sounds like a good book. Adding it to my reading list 👍

  • @FJA---
    @FJA--- 2 года назад

    Back in the 60s mainly I was a bass player and a little rhythm. Never was a fan of Gibson guitars. For solid bodies it was Fender, for hollow bodies it was Guild or Gretsch. Do have to admit that I still think the best sounding acoustics ever made were the mid 60s Gibson Hummigbirds with the Dove not far behind. For acoustic 12 strings I was a fan of the Guilds. For a mid/late 60s utility acoustic I wish I'd never gotten rid of my Goya. Played well and sounded good.

  • @matthewwelch9579
    @matthewwelch9579 2 года назад

    My guitar journey:
    1999 Squier Affinity Strat
    2000 Fender Tele STD. Mex.
    2005 Gibson USA Faded SG
    2017 Fender Modern Player Tele HSS China

  • @JWhitneyInc
    @JWhitneyInc 2 года назад +4

    Not sure if you've done a video on this before, but I always find it so curious as to how the majority of the guitars made over the last half decade are just reiterations of stuff that was brand new in the 50's. It's hard to improve on perfection, but it's also hard to believe that they got it so perfect back then. Lots of people tinker with different electronics and compound radius necks, etc. But for the most part people love and demand the classics. And I'm the same way.

    • @brooksroman2918
      @brooksroman2918 2 года назад

      I feel like this is mainly because the rise of the electric guitar in the 50’s was pretty much the invention of a new instrument in itself. Both the guitar and amp companies made what they made and it sounded how it sounded, and it all solidified what the “electric guitar” is and subsequently how the music that was made using them sounded. It’s always been interesting to me how people talk about innovation regarding the electric guitar but violin and saxophones have been what they are for centuries. Now obviously lots of innovations in the electric guitar world are really cool and it’s always good to be thinking of new ideas, but I think the “Fender style” and “Gibson style” electric guitar is basically just like an “A-style mandolin” or an “F-style mandolin” it’s simply the instrument itself. This comment ended up being way more in depth than I intended it to be

  • @LakesideWeldingJerry
    @LakesideWeldingJerry 2 года назад

    I'm not in Weehawkin, but I am in Jersey!

  • @bradleyruble6903
    @bradleyruble6903 2 года назад

    Will definitely have to add the birth of loud to the list of reads 📙

  • @shanewalton8888
    @shanewalton8888 2 года назад +1

    have you guys read Brad Tolinski's Play it Loud?

  • @ryangunwitch-black
    @ryangunwitch-black 10 месяцев назад

    If you’ve read it maybe do a part two now! I’m rereading it for the third time lol😂

  • @nevillecragg9066
    @nevillecragg9066 2 года назад

    I would digest this book with Baxter and Jonathan narrating it to me, In between chapters though I’d like an awkward honesty break and some movie recommendations. Then gently fall asleep to some “wooly beard swaying in the breeze” macro sounds.

  • @sparxlabprojects9545
    @sparxlabprojects9545 2 года назад +1

    The Birth of Loud is a terrific read. For anyone making their way through Peter Jackson’s Get Back, another is Kenneth Womack’s Solid State that takes readers through the same period of Beatles history. Fascinating to revisit such substantial musical history in context to their times and the personalities of the principals who played such substantial roles in shaping the music and instruments we’re all still so compelled to play.

  • @bbrotherton6345
    @bbrotherton6345 2 года назад

    My 1954 Fender Strat was $249 new.

  • @honkytonkinson9787
    @honkytonkinson9787 2 года назад +3

    I lean towards Fender guitars but I don’t think a guitar collection is complete without at least one Les Paul
    I prefer the studio to a standard or a custom; something about the lack of binding makes them look sleek to my eye. Some of my favorite guitars are LP studios with figured tops and transparent finishes

  • @rongroves9620
    @rongroves9620 2 года назад

    Norm recommended that book a year or so ago, and I bought and read it. It is a quick read, and heck I barely know how to read since youtube. You should check it out.

  • @garycoates4987
    @garycoates4987 2 года назад +3

    The quote I always heard from Ted McCarty originally was "now anyone with a pin router can make a guitar" talking about fender,,, then the call of $$$ was overwhelming and Gibson changed their tune

  • @alangreenway6695
    @alangreenway6695 2 года назад +3

    Just think of Fender 1950-1964- the Telecaster, the Strat, the P and J basses, the Jazzmaster, the Jaguar, the Mustang.
    Now think of Gibson 1950-1964- the LP Paul, the LP Junior, the V and Explorer, the ES-335 and the other ES range, the SG, and the Firebird.
    Since then they’ve come up with a tiny amount of ideas (the Gibson DC, The Fender Acoustasonic) but just think of how limited the ranges of modern companies are: PRS just have variations on the Custom 22 and 24, the Silver Sky Strat-like and the 594 Paul-like, and some budget models of these guitars. The only company that comes close to Gibson and Fender in innovation is Gretsch- all of their shapes coming from 1950-1964. You wonder why those 14 years were so different to everything that came after in Guitar design.

  • @Trikisixx
    @Trikisixx 2 года назад +1

    C'mon 50k subs. I want to see Baxter's wirey frame lay the hurt on Jon's arm and win my sweet new Silver Sky.

  • @jonbarwick5946
    @jonbarwick5946 2 года назад

    Leo was an accountant! :) that’s why I bank on Fender 🥁 *tssss*

  • @tonybuzzard6198
    @tonybuzzard6198 2 года назад

    It was a good book.

  • @EchoApexFirstEcho
    @EchoApexFirstEcho 2 года назад +3

    Great Book, I’m glad to hear people talking about it from your point of view.

  • @Amish_Trivedi
    @Amish_Trivedi 2 года назад

    I vote for more synopses of books Jonathan hasn't read.

  • @kcsatchell5202
    @kcsatchell5202 2 года назад +1

    I own both and agree they approach their consumer from a different angle.
    I did visit the Gibson Garage two weeks ago…walked out with a Murphy Lab Pelham Blue ‘64 SG Reissue with “Light” aging. Staff was great and awesome experience!!

    • @CasinoGuitars
      @CasinoGuitars  2 года назад

      Very cool! send the shop some photos of it! Shop@casinoguitars.com

  • @richc.9273
    @richc.9273 2 года назад

    I might have to change my answer to the secret question if Baxter keeps dogging Jonathan's home life.
    Peace gents. Thanks for the content as always.

  • @jonathanbloomfield2603
    @jonathanbloomfield2603 2 года назад

    The guitaroligist suggest that Summersby (I believe that was the name) guitars came out with the solid body electric first.

  • @jaybe813
    @jaybe813 2 года назад +2

    The Gibson Garage is awesome. I bought an L-00 there this past summer. Handy and dangerous that I live only 15 minutes from it.

    • @CasinoGuitars
      @CasinoGuitars  2 года назад +1

      That's too close for us. We would be broke :)

    • @jaybe813
      @jaybe813 2 года назад

      @@CasinoGuitars It is too close. They’re ALL too close!

  • @twenty3electronics
    @twenty3electronics 2 года назад +2

    A 1954 Stratocaster was originally $249, and would be over $2,500 adjusted for inflation. A Gibson Les Paul was actually slightly cheaper

  • @rydner
    @rydner 2 года назад +1

    You guys absolutely need to read that book!! I got it when it first came out. My. God. So much good storytelling to fuse the rise of great artists and the creators. It’s like a docuseries from the history channel but as a book!!

  • @leamanc
    @leamanc 2 года назад

    The Birth of Loud is a very enjoyable book! I received it for my birthday a couple of years ago, and it was a perfect gift.

  • @davidleinweber
    @davidleinweber 2 года назад

    I healed couldn't play a G chord. If true, its one of the hilarious musical fun facts ever. What a giant of American business and cul

  • @georgestahl8866
    @georgestahl8866 2 года назад +1

    Nine minutes before you drifted off. We can blame Dylan talks tone for that. Yet, per usual, you masterfully wind back around to the “topic.” Thank you both for my daily dose of gear talk with a little bit of life thrown in the mix.

  • @dangolguitartech
    @dangolguitartech 2 года назад +3

    This video put a thought in my head… Imagine being the first guy to discover how to control a dimed Bassman?
    That would have been very cool, I think.🤠
    Thanks for another great video, fellas!

  • @jasonswitzer1748
    @jasonswitzer1748 3 месяца назад

    Man. I have a Les Paul Tribute and I absolutely love the guitar. I sat down and played a Heritage H-150 Core and a Les Paul Standard 50s and honestly… it plays exactly the same. Does the Les Paul and Heritage look better? 100% yes. But do they sound better? Tone is in the ear of the beholder (is that a thing?), but to me… no. They cost way more, but don’t really sound any better. When you buy the big dog Gibsons, you’re playin for the flame top and maybe some relic-ing… that’s basically it. Maybe I just was super sacrilegious, but that’s my honest opinion.

  • @glennalansmith6390
    @glennalansmith6390 2 года назад

    Check out the Epiphone Alex Lifeson Signature. It's a great price for a lot of features. Not much more than the JJJ Epiphone Signature.

  • @shanewalton8888
    @shanewalton8888 2 года назад

    Can't believe you guys did this video without once mentioning Ted McCarty

  • @bardpendragon7229
    @bardpendragon7229 2 года назад +2

    That book is definitely on my to read list. I'm pretty sure Dylan lives in his own version of "Howl's Moving Castle".

  • @Adamski1989
    @Adamski1989 2 года назад +1

    I have a 2018 studio that's basically a standard without body binding.its got the 57s in,bound fretboard and all features of a standard but with coil taps.it feels like a standard and screams

    • @Frosenborg
      @Frosenborg 2 года назад

      Gibson did cool/weird things in 2018. One shop had 2018 Classic with P90 pickups and no weight relief.

    • @Adamski1989
      @Adamski1989 2 года назад

      @@Frosenborg was 2018 the last year of Henry ? Just wondering if it will appreciate in value

    • @Frosenborg
      @Frosenborg 2 года назад +1

      @@Adamski1989 Could have been, I'm not sure. I'd think your Studio is more valuable than is regular counterparts.

  • @mikedr1549
    @mikedr1549 2 года назад

    My wife got me that book last year for Christmas - really enjoyed it!

  • @ryanfulldark2775
    @ryanfulldark2775 2 года назад +1

    Yes!!! Can’t wait to watch this later!

  • @WoollyWizardBeardCo
    @WoollyWizardBeardCo 2 года назад +2

    Thanks for the shoutout guys ! Appreciate you both and all the content !

  • @ryangunwitch-black
    @ryangunwitch-black 2 года назад +2

    That's a great book. I'm on my second read now. The writing is such that it moves at a brisk pace and stays interesting the whole way through.

  • @kevinmurtagh4996
    @kevinmurtagh4996 2 года назад

    Does the winner of the Silver Sky also come with complimentary beard-maintenance tips from Jonathan? Thanks!

  • @wrobinson1702
    @wrobinson1702 2 года назад

    Good stuff. My feeling about Fender: Their market, at least initially, was the "working musician." The guys (and girls) out there on the road and in the local clubs who were mostly just getting by, financially. Gibson, OTOH, was building for the elite-nationally and internationally musicians/stars who sold lots of records, appeared on TV, etc, with significant disposable income. Now, Fender fills that same niche, but has expanded to include Beginners,(the Squier series, which I love) and high end players (Fender custom). Gibson has been much less successful in expanding their market in that fashion.

  • @treadhead1945
    @treadhead1945 2 года назад

    I'm not in Weehawken. I am in Detroit.

  • @davegrice3423
    @davegrice3423 2 года назад +15

    Man I love these videos. It's like sitting with a couple of buddies, cracking nerd jokes and talking geetars. Cheers!

  • @davidp1192
    @davidp1192 2 года назад +1

    The book is great. I highly recommend it. It is available on audio book (which is how I read it).

  • @Reverend_Mojo
    @Reverend_Mojo 2 года назад +2

    What'd the Fender say while arguing with a Gibson?
    ...
    ...
    "Hey! Don't lose your head"

  • @ginolamendola4084
    @ginolamendola4084 2 года назад +1

    Why are you talking ??? Because you are give us listeners AWESOME information! That’s why you are talking !!!

  • @jessieplaysmusic8530
    @jessieplaysmusic8530 2 года назад

    Noice wooly beard mate

  • @richc.9273
    @richc.9273 2 года назад

    94 Epiphone LP-100. Took out stock pickups put in a set of Gibson 490's. Thoughts?

  • @TommySG1
    @TommySG1 2 года назад +1

    Very cool, I just ordered a copy. Thanks guys… really dig your feeds!

  • @jeffthomson1777
    @jeffthomson1777 2 года назад +1

    Always love the topics you guys pick to go over

  • @REDW1NG94
    @REDW1NG94 2 года назад +3

    It really is a great book. Another good one is "Play it Loud" by Brad Tolinski and Alan di Perna. After reading those 2 books, pretty much all my answers about the inventors, companies, and players have been answered

  • @phillippitts6294
    @phillippitts6294 2 года назад

    Are the podcasts available somewhere else besides Spotify?

  • @loganwilms4061
    @loganwilms4061 2 года назад

    Watching in 2022, The Robocat Apocalypse hasn’t been awful. My tone is the best it’s ever been right meow

  • @DeeneMuada
    @DeeneMuada 2 года назад

    fender hits me deeper

  • @glassslide
    @glassslide 2 года назад

    Fantastic book!! Couldn't put it down, excellent read.

  • @josephkemler5668
    @josephkemler5668 2 года назад

    The lp is guitar..strat is machine!

  • @jscribs71
    @jscribs71 2 года назад +1

    If the Borg played guitar, would they play an Explorer?

  • @ryanfulldark2775
    @ryanfulldark2775 2 года назад +2

    The few 50s and 60s Fenders I’ve played really capture that vibe you spoke of. I’m not sure the tone they pioneered was completely by accident, Leo was methodical with pickup placement, tone woods etc. But I’m quite sure he never envisioned the myriad of ways his instruments would be used. Ex. Jimi Hendrix! Great vid guys!

    • @volkerlange7251
      @volkerlange7251 2 года назад

      “Tone wood” is an irrelevant concept in this context. Pickups are not microphones, they aren’t picking up any resonance in the wood, all they “hear” is the disruption in the magnetic field of the pickup caused by the vibration of the strings in the proximity of said field. What effects your guitar tone, ie what creates the signal, is the shape and size of the magnetic field (the design of the pickup), the strings (material, diameter) and how your fingers make them vibrate. On a hollow body electric guitar, contact between the strings and the body via the bridge causes the soundboard to vibrate, and that vibration on the soundboard causes the bridge to vibrate which does effect the vibration of the strings, but even in that context you’re not hearing “tonewood” beyond the fact that a harder wood will vibrate more strongly than a softer wood, that is to say that if I made two archtops, one out of a very hard wood like maple and one out of a plastic that has the same hardness as maple and put the same electronics on them, they’d sound the same. This isn’t the case where tonewood is relevant, acoustic guitars, since the interaction between the vibrating strings and the wood is much more complex and audible. You could not use plastics with equivalent hardness.
      There’s nothing wrong with caring about wood on your guitar, I like the weight and aesthetics of a mahogany body with a maple cap, but it’s an issue that’s purely aesthetic! The wood of a Les Paul is as relevant to tone as the color of your blanket is relevant to how soft and warm it is.

    • @ryanfulldark2775
      @ryanfulldark2775 2 года назад

      @@volkerlange7251 😲 I dig the passion, bro.

    • @volkerlange7251
      @volkerlange7251 2 года назад

      @@ryanfulldark2775 I hear so much nonsense about tonewood it drives me crazy

    • @ryanfulldark2775
      @ryanfulldark2775 2 года назад

      @@volkerlange7251 It’s far from nonsense. Ash and Alder sound noticeably different. Just as mahogany and maple. Fretboard material alters the sound notably as well. When you played and owned as many guitars as I have, you pick these things out a bit easier. I understand there is a faction that calls it nonsense and a faction that puts merit behind it. But the evidence is out there it makes a difference, and it’s readily available. But, hey, constructive debate is what makes this so damn interesting!

  • @darthdurf9611
    @darthdurf9611 2 года назад

    clearance Clarence, and don't call me Shirley

  • @brooksroman2918
    @brooksroman2918 2 года назад

    Could it be said that by 1958 both Fender and Gibson had adopted a little bit of the other’s vision? Fender released the Jazzmaster to be their “premium” guitar (literally called the Jazzmaster targeted to jazz players, a market traditionally dominated by.. Gibson) and Gibson was now producing the Specials, Juniors, and Melody Makers, which were student models but they were more affordable. Now it seems they both feel that having something at every price point is the winning recipe because a customer is going to spend what they want to spend on a guitar, and if they don’t have an offering at that customer’s price point, there are other brands who will steal that customer away. The Japanese/independent copies of the 70’s/80’s could be to thank for that.

  • @joshloggins3298
    @joshloggins3298 2 года назад +1

    The book is a good read! It's really fascinating to learn the history of both Fender and Gibson. Each companies approach to what would be the birth of Rock music

  • @0000song0000
    @0000song0000 2 года назад

    7:50 11:45 I love how they just say it... At least Fender tries to make their $300 range look nice 😅
    You find $1000+ Gibsons with really mismatched tops, not-so-great bridges, etc (side note: why on Earth they don't put more hardtail bridges like the Nighthawk's?)

  • @groovenvibeyt
    @groovenvibeyt 2 года назад +2

    i think The Borg would play PRS

    • @jimhimesjr
      @jimhimesjr 2 года назад +1

      Maybe a reverse Flying V or a reverse strat

    • @groovenvibeyt
      @groovenvibeyt 2 года назад +3

      @@jimhimesjr those are both abominations of humanity lol... so probably