Once you understand how toss players typically storm it becomes relatively simple to predict when and where they will land and thus be able to dodge a lot of them preemptively. Notice how every time the HT started moving forward was when Dragon knew they were going to storm the front lines. When they were retreating behind the army, that's when he knew it was safe to advance.
its actually pretty easy to predict where storms will go. you just look at where the templar are and then look at your army and see where the storms will do the most damage. then you just move those specific units out of the way in relation to where the templars are.
@zozigy What he was referring to wasn't this game that dragon was trolling. There was a period of time, recently, he was playing gold league players just to troll. So he was correct in stating that sentence. Dragon was putting those vids of him trolling gold level players on reddit and youtube.
You don't need to predict. The thing with banelings is as soon as they hit you take a ton of damage. With storms, yes they will do a little damage, but you just move your marines right when the storm is cast and you don't take much damage. No harder to do than splitting for banelings, you just do it right after the cast instead of right when you see the banelings coming.
Okay, I rarely play zerg but there is quite a bit of micro involved for efficient unit usage. At all points during a battle I cycle weak units back, even zerglings. Infested terran blocks are also micro intensive, as are fungals, burrow, and unit group sniping.
Since smartcasting, casting spell is really easy, its just a matter of placement and timing, as a terran you can't predict where they are going to land and they fall instantly with no warning unlike nukes which any half-decent player can avoid. If only "split bio" was a spell you could cast and didn't require extremely accurate and precisely timed mouse movements
as a protoss i complete agree. Only micro we really HAVE to do is storm timing with potential feedback and blink micro. maybe once a while coloss micro (but honestly how often to you micro coloss anyway - - )
All Dragon did was preemptively run his bio ball back. The protoss only stormed one layer deep into Dragon's retreat path. Not saying Dragon did bad on his part or the protoss did bad on his part. Just that high templar need to be a little more up front to be able to storm multiple layers (side to side and front to back). However, this means risking your templar by moving them up front, which many players can be scared of. That and BW storm was so much better....
@airstriker57 No shit, did you see how outmatched he was at the start. He had all tier 1 with 4 medivacs. The protoss has massive maxed tech with archons, immortals, chargelots, collossus, 8 storms, etc.
@herpderpmonkey It's not easy to guarantee 2-3 EMPs without being feedbacked or stormed (2-3 observers), and ghosts can't be replaced/morphed as quickly as temps. Toss standard zeal-temp lategame vs bio is 2-3 temps/base, and 5-6 with your army, with a spammed gateways and fast upgrades. Also, T can't get everything with 3 EMPs if the toss spreads lots in a concave and doesn't engage at a choke (standard vs MMM). Vikings couldn't dodge at that range, and the bioball could.
Are you sure that's fair to protoss? At mid game, protoss chooses colossus OR templar. If you're giving the opponent a clear opportunity to storm dodge, you make the templar alot weaker. Do you realize that he's not REACTING to storm - he is predicting them and moving out oft he way?
bluewker I'm not sure because the balance issue is so complex. It might force Toss to use positioning as an advantage *first* before storming; also, the maps are partly to blame for this as they are just wide open fields mostly. If there were ledges and "sniper" positions from where storms could be cast down upon unsuspecting passersbys then it might add a storyline effect to the game and make it more intersting. Right now, it's mostly a shooting gallery game.
UniBrowser Sniping at the ledges position is useless since Terran have medivac and can spot the templar immediately anyway. If you talking about the cliffs, I am assuming that you're talking about the map with a lot of choke point. A map like this is greatly advantageous for Terran since all of their units is ranged. A couple Siege Tanks with MMM and Viking support at the choke point will turn the map into Terran's shooting gallery game.
I disagree with ur comment of not making ghost. A mixture of high templar and immortal + colo army is almost a dead meat if u have a ghost or two.. EMP is extremely deadly for toss player. Although EMP is hard to land (which is true during open field engagement when unit is not crunched up), but with snipe and EMP ghost is very effective against the army that I mentioned above. Which is pretty standard army for a toss player.
@JustAnotherMetalhead well, yes. As you can see he actually splits his units before he get stormed. Allthought, if you play toss(kinda assuming since EMP is strongest against toss), it's harder to use strom/forcefields while spliting instead of just stimming and then splitting :P But would be nice to se pro toss/zerg players split ,more than they do
Just because you have a problem with micro late game does not mean protoss op. The range of EMP is longer then feedback and storm (I think). still you just lead with the ghost in your army and EMP all protoss units.
@evotech i am saying that even WITH amazing micro and having a huge arc vs zealots going through a choke he only had a reasonably small portion of his army left
Plus you dont need as many festors vs mech because you only need fungals for the vikings as there are no marines, so you will have more gas to spend on blords
Well, I don't exactly mean that...I was saying like right before a battle, split ur rines. Even if he carpets u, u can just move out of them. Btw, storms are not 1a.
Everyone is complaining about how _____ is OP. I see each race as balance because each race all have the best units in the game. The SCV, Drone, and Probe.
@Galastin 4-5 ghost emp hit = instant ~1k damage, considering how many ghosts the terran can get at once, it is actually very easy. Sure the protoss can back up and let the shield regen but there are only so much space on the map. archons die quickly to a couple of EMPs anyway, and thats where the downward spiril begins.
@Telanhzan you realize that once you are grandmaster you play high master and grandmaster randomly since only 200 people are allowed in gm league and not every1 are online at the same time.
@herpderpmonkey Storms dont do base damage because they do more damage than EMP over time. Don't forget, it only takes away shield. With terran, it takes anyway everything. Don't just look at the numbers. Storm > EMP. Plus its a bigger area. Plus, when you run out of energy, you can just morph them into archons. Ghosts aren't that good without energy.
EMP and feedback have equal range, but feedback is single target while EMP is AoE, so technically EMP has more range. In a perfect micro situation ghost counters HT.
random player here i have a huge problem with TvP as terran cuz of storms the reason being that i can't keep up with siege/stim/ghostpositioning/cloack/emp but that doesent mean that toss is imbalanced it just means that i lack the skills and have to train for it when i get good enough with all this im pretty sure if the toss is not good with microing i will roll them for they 2 have to split their units so that the emp(half their hp gone instantly) wont hit them dont blame balance unless you GM
@SeQuoiae1 Overlord Drops with Banelings and Ultralisks. Roach/Infestor burrow harrass. Muta/ling. Nydus worms. Moving crawlers forward on creep to aid a push. You don't give the zerg race enough credit if you think all we have to do is spam more hatcheries and then a-move at 200 food.
Going into higher tier units doesn't mean that it's automatically easier... all units still need to be properly micro'd and whoever micro's their units better will come out on top, regardless of tier 3 vs tier 1
Yes but think like this how hard is it to click T and then right click on ur enemies units? Here's an explaination to what micro is for the races>>T micro>split emp/snipe make sure to have medvacs healing all the time focus the colossi with vikings etc. P micro>> storm ff amove focus vikings and pull colossi back if needed. Z micro>> non-existing. If u feel the need to correct me then go ahead.
I must have played you at some point. Or someone who followed this advice. Three stalkers and an observer. Observer with the main army, around ten HT. Storm the hell out of anything that moves.
When you have so much free Apm this is the easiest thing . I agree that this is a normal GM level micro but many GM players may have not his Apm yet can be just as good :) What really cool is he can multitask easily and his macro is impeccable too as much as i can see watch some Boxer micros in Sc1 ! They really made me come :D
But in this battle, the only units that Protoss had was tier 1 Zealots and tier 2 Stalkers, Immortals and High Templars (Which would be later morphed into Archons). If you add in Collosi to the mix, then maybe Protoss would have won.
And to add onto this, let's not forget that Protoss tier 1 units also counter Terran tier 3 units, which is the basis of argument for Protoss (that Terran tier 1 counters Protoss tier 3) Except that Terran tier 3 is a funny joke :P
@ZhuSeth the toss had 8 or so storms ready and dragon had no ghost, just MM. you almost NEED ghost to deal with storm. obviously his stats arent 100% true, but anyone who didnt split like that wouldve gotten steamrolled
I suddenly feel like play starcraft II again after a long time =D.
that viking drop on the high ground was SICK
Once you understand how toss players typically storm it becomes relatively simple to predict when and where they will land and thus be able to dodge a lot of them preemptively. Notice how every time the HT started moving forward was when Dragon knew they were going to storm the front lines. When they were retreating behind the army, that's when he knew it was safe to advance.
well try to watch the HT and micro your enire army that well is godly good he looks like marinekingprime.
Omg this is so sick, it's like watching brood war micro again.
its actually pretty easy to predict where storms will go. you just look at where the templar are and then look at your army and see where the storms will do the most damage. then you just move those specific units out of the way in relation to where the templars are.
@zozigy What he was referring to wasn't this game that dragon was trolling. There was a period of time, recently, he was playing gold league players just to troll. So he was correct in stating that sentence. Dragon was putting those vids of him trolling gold level players on reddit and youtube.
I love replying you ^^ It's such joy in this little world.
You don't need to predict. The thing with banelings is as soon as they hit you take a ton of damage. With storms, yes they will do a little damage, but you just move your marines right when the storm is cast and you don't take much damage. No harder to do than splitting for banelings, you just do it right after the cast instead of right when you see the banelings coming.
Can't we just embrace this epic micro? This guy is INSANE!
God damnit I love Dragon, I'm glad he's play professionally again.
this gives me hope for sc2
I would love to have this game casted and hear caster comments on this intense micro lol
Okay, I rarely play zerg but there is quite a bit of micro involved for efficient unit usage. At all points during a battle I cycle weak units back, even zerglings. Infested terran blocks are also micro intensive, as are fungals, burrow, and unit group sniping.
Songname is : T-Pain feat. Ne-Yo "Turn All the Lights On"
Since smartcasting, casting spell is really easy, its just a matter of placement and timing, as a terran you can't predict where they are going to land and they fall instantly with no warning unlike nukes which any half-decent player can avoid. If only "split bio" was a spell you could cast and didn't require extremely accurate and precisely timed mouse movements
holy shit i am at awe at how he predicted every storm cast that guy did
What you said goes for all races, if anything protoss is the most micro heavy, bad storms/forcefields means your deathballs die to MMM
Oh wow! GG Dragon, Some of the best dodging I have ever seen!
You have to remember that most of Dragon's army was tier 1-1.5, and that the protoss had defender's advantage
That Korean at the end topped it off.
It's amazing that he did this on the NA server. Look at that response delay. :O
The music fits this perfectly!
as a protoss i complete agree. Only micro we really HAVE to do is storm timing with potential feedback and blink micro. maybe once a while coloss micro (but honestly how often to you micro coloss anyway - - )
@TTsmurf Thanks that's exactly what I meant. Most terrans see 5 high temps with full energy and had no ghosts and would leave right there.
A high templar walks into a bar and storms the dance floor.
All Dragon did was preemptively run his bio ball back. The protoss only stormed one layer deep into Dragon's retreat path. Not saying Dragon did bad on his part or the protoss did bad on his part. Just that high templar need to be a little more up front to be able to storm multiple layers (side to side and front to back). However, this means risking your templar by moving them up front, which many players can be scared of. That and BW storm was so much better....
@airstriker57 No shit, did you see how outmatched he was at the start. He had all tier 1 with 4 medivacs. The protoss has massive maxed tech with archons, immortals, chargelots, collossus, 8 storms, etc.
@herpderpmonkey It's not easy to guarantee 2-3 EMPs without being feedbacked or stormed (2-3 observers), and ghosts can't be replaced/morphed as quickly as temps. Toss standard zeal-temp lategame vs bio is 2-3 temps/base, and 5-6 with your army, with a spammed gateways and fast upgrades.
Also, T can't get everything with 3 EMPs if the toss spreads lots in a concave and doesn't engage at a choke (standard vs MMM).
Vikings couldn't dodge at that range, and the bioball could.
I can't wait for more starcraft pro games to look more like this then just A moving.
The Storm animation should be slowed down slightly, so that the initial calldown of it is followed by a little more time before the damage wave of it.
Are you sure that's fair to protoss? At mid game, protoss chooses colossus OR templar. If you're giving the opponent a clear opportunity to storm dodge, you make the templar alot weaker.
Do you realize that he's not REACTING to storm - he is predicting them and moving out oft he way?
bluewker
I'm not sure because the balance issue is so complex. It might force Toss to use positioning as an advantage *first* before storming; also, the maps are partly to blame for this as they are just wide open fields mostly. If there were ledges and "sniper" positions from where storms could be cast down upon unsuspecting passersbys then it might add a storyline effect to the game and make it more intersting. Right now, it's mostly a shooting gallery game.
UniBrowser The problem is that if they do that Terran would be op because siege tanks and vikings
UniBrowser
Sniping at the ledges position is useless since Terran have medivac and can spot the templar immediately anyway.
If you talking about the cliffs, I am assuming that you're talking about the map with a lot of choke point. A map like this is greatly advantageous for Terran since all of their units is ranged. A couple Siege Tanks with MMM and Viking support at the choke point will turn the map into Terran's shooting gallery game.
Wow, that's like trying to dodge raindrops while it's raining. The scary part is... he pulled it off.
I disagree with ur comment of not making ghost. A mixture of high templar and immortal + colo army is almost a dead meat if u have a ghost or two.. EMP is extremely deadly for toss player. Although EMP is hard to land (which is true during open field engagement when unit is not crunched up), but with snipe and EMP ghost is very effective against the army that I mentioned above. Which is pretty standard army for a toss player.
Perhaps, but sometimes the flames are funny to read. Sometimes it's even funnier to see just what the whole war was started over.
Sorry to hear that
There's quite a bit of fun to be had at reading trolls' flames
@JustAnotherMetalhead well, yes. As you can see he actually splits his units before he get stormed. Allthought, if you play toss(kinda assuming since EMP is strongest against toss), it's harder to use strom/forcefields while spliting instead of just stimming and then splitting :P
But would be nice to se pro toss/zerg players split ,more than they do
Holy shyt this is some quality micro right here
i was so amazing and speechless but that laugh near the end creeped me the fuck out i couldn't watch it again. lol
all wondering for the song its T-Pain feat. Ne-Yo - Turn All The Lights On
The micro so beautiful
Just because you have a problem with micro late game does not mean protoss op. The range of EMP is longer then feedback and storm (I think). still you just lead with the ghost in your army and EMP all protoss units.
@evotech i am saying that even WITH amazing micro and having a huge arc vs zealots going through a choke he only had a reasonably small portion of his army left
is actually dragon back in slayers? dragon is a high quality gamer imo
Plus you dont need as many festors vs mech because you only need fungals for the vikings as there are no marines, so you will have more gas to spend on blords
Well, I don't exactly mean that...I was saying like right before a battle, split ur rines. Even if he carpets u, u can just move out of them. Btw, storms are not 1a.
@pxdud thanks a lot, I will try to remember that, I am not good as Terran, so I don't know much about terran terminology, nor am I good in English...
I would like to like this video so many times! Gotta love slayer'sdragon
reminds me of oldschool iloveoov mass unit control... very well done
WTF , "SlayerS_BoxeR Micro" tech in the making again :O
weeeell shit lol that was some high level dodge right there
main counter because u have a limited amount of uses on storms depending on the amount of energy u have on each templar
Lol. In the end he says "Really a storm master."
Everyone is complaining about how _____ is OP. I see each race as balance because each race all have the best units in the game. The SCV, Drone, and Probe.
The toss didnt need any micro to do that whereas it requires a corean terran pro to avoid the storms
Dragon: "Ghosts? Why would I need ghosts to counter HTs?"
that storm dodging was a SUCCESSSSSS
you know you are losing when you see vikings landing
Damn, I would've lost that engagement any time no matter how hard I tried
@Galastin 4-5 ghost emp hit = instant ~1k damage, considering how many ghosts the terran can get at once, it is actually very easy. Sure the protoss can back up and let the shield regen but there are only so much space on the map. archons die quickly to a couple of EMPs anyway, and thats where the downward spiril begins.
its a wonder to a me how pros can split so quickly and perfectly
@certainlymaybe because he didn't think the terren would be dodging every single storm
@easyco778 shows him in grandmaster in the video, and he plays on korean servers so i'm sure he's extremely high ranked
Just casually opens stream to see reactions...
Fucking insane
He's dodging before the storms even land...
Yes… Yes indeed. But you missed my point, I ment that most of the storms were really bad and he didn't have to do too much to dodge them…
music in background..T-Pain - Turn All The Lights On (Feat. Ne-Yo)
The counter to storm: Mass Dragon.
I would love to see a caster's reaction.
@Telanhzan you realize that once you are grandmaster you play high master and grandmaster randomly since only 200 people are allowed in gm league and not every1 are online at the same time.
dragon and boxer are not terran, but a new race of their own :D
@herpderpmonkey Storms dont do base damage because they do more damage than EMP over time. Don't forget, it only takes away shield. With terran, it takes anyway everything. Don't just look at the numbers. Storm > EMP. Plus its a bigger area. Plus, when you run out of energy, you can just morph them into archons. Ghosts aren't that good without energy.
EMP and feedback have equal range, but feedback is single target while EMP is AoE, so technically EMP has more range. In a perfect micro situation ghost counters HT.
random player here i have a huge problem with TvP as terran cuz of storms the reason being that i can't keep up with siege/stim/ghostpositioning/cloack/emp but that doesent mean that toss is imbalanced it just means that i lack the skills and have to train for it when i get good enough with all this im pretty sure if the toss is not good with microing i will roll them for they 2 have to split their units so that the emp(half their hp gone instantly) wont hit them dont blame balance unless you GM
@SeQuoiae1 Overlord Drops with Banelings and Ultralisks. Roach/Infestor burrow harrass. Muta/ling. Nydus worms. Moving crawlers forward on creep to aid a push.
You don't give the zerg race enough credit if you think all we have to do is spam more hatcheries and then a-move at 200 food.
since when can dragon see into the future
@laziboi72 its at 15min, u cant have both storms, lots of colossi and a big army at that point.
"Terran op"
how much effort when into microing those units versus pushing T and clicking for an AoE of 80 dmg. And protoss complain, why?
Going into higher tier units doesn't mean that it's automatically easier... all units still need to be properly micro'd and whoever micro's their units better will come out on top, regardless of tier 3 vs tier 1
You know that feeling you get when you watch a really good guitarist playing, and you think like, whats the point of trying :O
i almost forgot to watch this today
new favourite terran
what really made me lol, is dragon thought he needed ghosts
i didn't say they were OP, i just said they were easy. and i didnt base that solely off this video, i know from experience
Yes but think like this how hard is it to click T and then right click on ur enemies units? Here's an explaination to what micro is for the races>>T micro>split emp/snipe make sure to have medvacs healing all the time focus the colossi with vikings etc. P micro>> storm ff amove focus vikings and pull colossi back if needed. Z micro>> non-existing. If u feel the need to correct me then go ahead.
God. This guy is amazing. He did not even use freaking hotkeys WTF
I would pe pissed if i were that toss. Sick micro.
I must have played you at some point. Or someone who followed this advice.
Three stalkers and an observer. Observer with the main army, around ten HT. Storm the hell out of anything that moves.
@828Pakie No, he's saying it's not fair that terran can make T1 and win, whereas protoss has to make T3 and still can lose T3 against T1...
When you have so much free Apm this is the easiest thing . I agree that this is a normal GM level micro but many GM players may have not his Apm yet can be just as good :) What really cool is he can multitask easily and his macro is impeccable too as much as i can see watch some Boxer micros in Sc1 ! They really made me come :D
the music goes with it perfectly rofl
But in this battle, the only units that Protoss had was tier 1 Zealots and tier 2 Stalkers, Immortals and High Templars (Which would be later morphed into Archons).
If you add in Collosi to the mix, then maybe Protoss would have won.
This guy has the best reaction!
And to add onto this, let's not forget that Protoss tier 1 units also counter Terran tier 3 units, which is the basis of argument for Protoss (that Terran tier 1 counters Protoss tier 3)
Except that Terran tier 3 is a funny joke :P
@AEgamesFtw
He just had to stim, he could have sat in the storms for ages and op medivacs keep them alive.
They call him Storm-Rider...
The DPS on marines is ridiculous.
That's more gosu than beating a korean with 10 hands while being on fire and playing in space.
Marines, the counter to psi storm.
@ZhuSeth the toss had 8 or so storms ready and dragon had no ghost, just MM. you almost NEED ghost to deal with storm. obviously his stats arent 100% true, but anyone who didnt split like that wouldve gotten steamrolled
@BorisNaruto2
its kinda hard to be on fire in space. You no with the whole lack of oxygen thing
No Success?
sucksex