I found this very interesting, I spent 2 years working on Truck and Bus batteries, the mechanical design, the case structure, cell arrangement, bus bar and cable layout, BMS locations etc. Retired now. Your explanation is spot on. We used LiFePo, NMC and experimented with Lithium Titanate - for a high C rate. We mainly used NMC pouch cells made by AESC Envision - like the Nissan Cells. A limiting factor I didn't hear you mention was the bus bar , cable sections and routings. Charging at a high C rate or high current generates heat in the bus bars and cables and they have an effect on the whole battery enclosure temperature. 800V vs 400V, 800V allows the internal bus bars and cables to be half the section for the same current or generate less heat We had a test rig for accelerated lifeing where we could experiment with layouts and different cooling types, Air, Liquid, surface cooling, heat exchange internal to external. Also the software limits for the batteries I worked on were set at Tmax 42C before derating began (rapidgate) Cell_Tmax to Cell_Tmin was no more than 2C CellV spread was no more than 20mV. The CellVmin CellVmax which car scanner shows is usually the Tab temperature from the CANBUS, its not the actual cell temp but the tabs are easy access and can be the hottest part. Very good Rant
Hi Björn, for the volvo trucks Zellen: Format 21700 Typ Samsung INR 21700-53G Zellchemie NCA (Nickel, Cobalt, Aluminium) Nennspannung 3.6 V Max. U 4.2 V (100% SOC) Min. U 3.2 V (0% SOC) Kapazität 5300 mAh (19Wh) Gewicht 69.5 g Modul: Anzahl Zellen 4680 Seriell 180 Parallel 22 Nennspannung 653 V Max. U 750 V (100% SOC) Min. U 575 V (0% SOC) Kapazität 90 kWh Gewicht 532 kg (344 kg aktiv) Pack: Anzahl Module 5-6 Kapazität 450 - 540 kWh Gewicht 2660 - 3192 kg Strom: Laden (250 kW) 363 A / 2.7 A (max. 4.8A) Entladen (515 kW) 775 A / 5.8 A (max. 9.7A) Its from Volvos documents so its somewhat accurate but not 100% Cheers
Charging at 800v means that thinner cables can be used for equivalent power ratings. It offers no advantage for cell charging, which is subject to exactly the same constraints at 400v or 800v, because it’s the charging power that counts.
and actual the 400v components are more common in production and so they are cheaper. When 800v components will be more produced, they will be cheaper for the manufacturers.
@@bjornnyland Less cooling is needed on Ionity, but only when 800V car is connected and charging at 250kW. Higher voltage also means thicker insulation is needed. And I believe Tesla overloads their cables over their spec current temporarily (monitoring for temperature), taking into account the charge curve will drop the power eventually. So while Tesla peaks at higher current, Ionity probably has the cables capable of delivering 500A continuously, meaning they might actually be thicker, or with a higher cooling capability. Together with the thicker HV insulation it results in thicker cables. Let's see what the V4 dispensers are like, those should offer 1000V from what I heard. I agree that 800V adds little to the car. But it might be a necessary step in the ever higher power race to keep the chargers themselves manageable. Cybertruck is supposed to have 800V anyway. The cars not pushing the envelope so much will always remain 400V as that is much cheaper, and price I believe is a large part in why Tesla sticks to it so much.
So the tradeoff is having a thicker piece of Aluminium cable vs. Having twice amount of balancing circuit inside the batterypack and less resilience to cell voltage drift.
I think one reason why "800V" made sense for Hyundai's E-GMP platform is that for the used type of pouch cells, it is easier to re-use the same platform for a wide range of battery sizes without suffering from bad charging speed at ≪400V. Let me explain: E-GMP uses 384 cells for the largest 77kWh battery in Ioniq 5 and 6 (and EV6) in 32 modules with 12 cells per module. The smallest 53kWh battery has only 22 modules, totalling 264 cells. By always wiring 2 cells in parallel, you get around 384/2 * [3…4.1]V = [576…787]V for the large battery and [432…590]V for the small battery. You can also create bigger batteries for the EV9 or so without a problem. The max voltage will be a bit above 800V but the chargers support 1kV anyway, so why not. But if they had chosen to wire 3 cells in parallel (instead of 2), the voltage for the small battery would be only 288/3 * [3…4.1]V = [288...394]V and for the large battery you'd get [384...524]V. Mmh, still above 400V for large batteries. So let's wire 4 cells in parallel! 288/4 * [3…4.1]V = [216...295]V 384/4 * [3…4.1]V = [288...394]V Ok, that kind of works in a 400V limit (actually usually 450V). But look at the shitty voltage for the smaller batteries at low SOC! If the charger gives us a maximum of 500A, we would get around 220V*500A=110kW, limited by the charging station! So my claim is: Tesla achieves it's granularity by using many more cells which are a lot smaller than Hyundai's (SKI's) pouch cells and has a better flexibility when wiring them up in series and parallel. Hyundai achieves it's granularity by giving up the 400V limit and using a much wider range of voltages throughout their product line. Then they rebrand this strategy as "800V alien technology" or something like that. Greetings from a very happy Ioniq 5 owner. :-)
Björn, you know the Koreans have the best cells. They don't put those cells into Kona or eNiro, but they put them into eGMP cars and they also put them into the 28kWh Ioniq. The 28kWh Ioniq could charge at higher C-Rating in 2016 than any Tesla pre BYD blade LFP cells, and its battery degraded no more than a Tesla battery of the same era. In fact, my first EV was a 2014 Model S, and Tesla slowed down its charging speed after a few years. You may not be aware of that, or it may not have happened in Norway because it's colder up there, but I talked to several other Tesla drivers at the Supercharger at the time, and they experienced the same. My tesla lost about 10% of range in the 8 years and 200kkm I owned it. My 28kWh Ioniq lost 12% of usable capacity in the 5 years and 250kkm I owned it, and those 250kkm amount to 750kkm worth of cycles with the Model S. The eGMP cars can charge quicker than all other cars on the market today, except the BYD Model Y, which charges equally quickly. As for the 800V vs 400V discussion, this is largely a question of charging infrastructure. Tesla can't currently exceed 450V due to the voltage limitations of their vast installed charging network. Hyundai on the other hand design their cars for the use with public charging infrastructure. With this type of chargers it's preferable to use 500-800V, because that puts less stress on the charger, the connector and the car, the platform has reserves for faster cells and bigger batteries, and the components are less expensive. So the reality is, 400V is better for Tesla and 800V is better for Hyundai. This becomes clear, if you compare eGMP with MEB. eGMP supports cars in the ID3 and smaller to giant SUV's such as the EV9 to performance cars like EV6 GT. MEB is already maxed out and a full generation behind eGMP, despite being developped and introduced at about the same time. VW needs to use a different platform for their higher end Audi and Porsche models, the PPE. The PPE and MEB will both be replaced by a new platform called SSP after just 2 or 3 years. SSP will be the equivalent of eGMP, which will be at least 6-7 years old by the time SSP will go into production. VW even developped bespoke platforms for single models such as the Toycan or fat eTron. That's a lot of engineering going down the toilet at VW for lack of vision and concept. Tesla OTOH don't have or need platforms. The have only one brand with only 3.5 different models they keep developping thus far.
from school i remember that loses in the conductor of electric current are calculated something like this: loses = voltage * (current)squared * conductor properties. so if you increase voltage you can reduce current and reduce losses or use lighter conductor of current. if comparing 800v vs 400v you get 4 times less losses in conductors. main result is lighter conductors.
that is true for conductors, but does nothing for the battery pack unfortunately. Using the battery of the same capacity, the 800v battery will have four times as much internal resistance as a 400v one, but for the same charging power, you need twice the current. Doubling the current leads to 2x voltage drop across the battery pack and you end up with the same total internal heat loss in the battery pack.
Thank you Bjørn for this. I got inspired and added C-Rating calculation to the EVKX EV database. So now you can sort EVs on Max C Rating and on Average C Rating. For Max C Rating G9 comes out on top. Tesla Model Y standard range comes amongst top 5. Try it out.
Just to be clear, the C-rating of a battery is in A, and is a factor of the capacity in Ah. In the video Bjørn used W and Wh for explaining C rating, while technically incorrect W and Wh are more commonly know by regular users. Batteries have two C-rating at a given temperature range, one max discharge and one max charge rate during the constant current portion (CC) of the charge. Chemistry will limit the rate during the constant voltage part (CV). BTW: Capacity of Led-Acid batteries are normally measured with a C/20 at 20°C and it is 1C at 20°C for Li-ion batteries.
@@MichaelEricMenk yes I agree, but since the nominal voltage is pretty much the same on the cells (LFP is a typical 0.2 lower) this simplifcation would give the "same" number.
800-volt architecture is just a lot more efficient and leads to waste heat in general. My EV6 (E-GMP car) needs only 305 amps to get up to 240 kW. EVs in the 400-volt class need around 500 or more amps to get over 200 kW. High amperage leads to more waste heat. But great discussion/podcast Bjørn!
For my part, it doesn't really matter if the car battery is getting damaged by high C figures in 800v systems (if that's true, there's no clear evidence of that). I drive a KIA EV6 as a company car and it's going to be returned in 3 years. I DC charge rarely, since I don't travel much. The bulk of daily use is 10-20 km in city traffic. I charge at home to 80% once a week. So, for my use case, 800v is perfect. When I travel long distances, I charge at Ionity and it puts a smile on my face when I'm last in, first out :D
Most people have been using C-rating for several years without knowing what it is. When you buy a Led-Acid battery, you have a capacity on that battery. The normal stated capacity of Lead-Acid battery is the capacity when discharged over 20 hours, or C/20. Some large Lead-Acid batteries for off grid PV installation use C/100 when calculating capacity. Capacity for Li-ion is normally measured with a 1C discharge, but this is less important because the peukert effect is almost non-existent in Li-Ion batteries.
I suppose what real world measure that would be useful would be how long to add sat 300 KM range to the battery, taking in to account the efficiency of the car and its charge capability.
OP: "300 KM range" 300 Kelvin Mega? The surface of the sun is only 0.005778 Mega Kelvin... :-) .. PS case matters Personally I like the charge-rate to be km per minute when fast charging. I find that number much more useful than km/h as charging sessions normally takes less than one hour.
@@grahambrown42 Ideally yes, but then some smartass will come along to say that they drive at a million miles per hour on a highway in winter and uphill constantly so you have to change the test because 300km range is not possible
Ioniq 5/6 doesn't hold that much power until 80%. The 200+ kW peak drops off at 50%, and at 80% when it hits the big drop it'll be at around 115-120 kW (2C) in optimal conditions. Yet classic Ioniq 28 kWh can hold 70 kW (2.5C) until 80%, are forced-air cooled, and yet still historically been quite reliable. Battery chemistry and design is quite important because evidently it is possible to have great C-rating charging curve even with 2017 technology.
If you think about the voltage as the transportat layer for the energy, a higher voltage is off course better for that. It's the same with network for computers. Higher throughput is better the lower. Now the question is those benefits fit your usecase is a different one. But if you think about it, the performance cars like the Porsche,Lucid and Rimac use 800v+ due to several advantages. That's just it. I think it doesn't make sense to argue about it if the future will be 800v plus anyway. Why wouldn't it be? Buying an 800v car today is more future proof for sure.
True story about VW. You can smell them before you see them. I live in Germany and it's really bad here with their Diesel Junk... Can't wait for my Model Y with the Hepa filter. 😅😊
Regarding recirculating the cabin air, I would love it if that function just turned on automatically any time the car detects that it's in a tunnel. I mean, the car has GPS, so how hard can it be?
45:07 apparently not for other manufacturers but likely to be a Tesla thing. 💡 reference: Adam Davenport: "This design flaw makes Tesla's Model 3 smell bad! (with fixes!)" vid
Hey Bjørn. I have seen soooo many reviews / test drives from you. But I cant find any videos about Audi E-tron 60 (S) model. Would love to see you do a test of some sorts, to hear your thoughts if its worth buying over the 55 for example :)
The main thing is amps. This determines the size of the cables needed for charging and discharging. More amps need fatter cables. Watts is amps x volts, so to get more KW with the same amps, you need to increase the voltage.
V3 cables are also generally much shorter than other chargers cables, which allows for smaller cables. Also, do Tesla chargers have active cooling in the cables? That would allow them to be smaller.
Kyle Conner talked about Tesla pushing the boundaries of the cables and change them out more often. So Ionity could have a longer lifespan prioritized over thinner and more service
Keep in mind, that charging losses with 800 V are much lower. With any given charging power: 400 V: current = 100 % cable loss at the charger is 100 % 800 V: current = 50 % cable loss at the charger is 25 %
your mind is set very short, isnt it ? to produce 400VDC from 3phase AC is easy and has almost no losses... producing 800VDC requries some fancy IGBTs and chunky inductors to boost it as required, so you will get charged for the hardware and the internal losses aswell... its just over complicated
In theory, yes. But the main losses happens in battery cells which are the same for 400 V and 800 V. That's why Tesla has the same losses as Taycan: ruclips.net/video/iLmIIe9N_aI/видео.html
@@Rolly369 This may be true if you assume the chargers are connected to the 400 V grid. But most high power charging sites may be connected to the medium-voltage power grid directly. So it should be no Problem to feed the 800 V chargers with 1000 V AC.
There is no 1000V AC, Medium Voltage is usually around 20kV, at least here in Germany. Should be similar in Norway. And pretty much all the High Power Chargers are connected to Low Voltage (400V 3 Phase). You'd just have to look at the Plates / Datasheets of Supercharger Cabinets or Alpitronic HYC Chargers. The conversion losses which happen inside the charger and cable shouldn't matter to the end consumer, as you're only paying for what comes out at the plug, which at least for the Alpitronic units is where they are measuring. Currently there isn't really much difference wheather thr car is charging with 400 or 800 Volts, that is as long as you're not hitting the cable / connector current limit which usually is aroung 500 or 600 Amps. Tesla is going up to 650A, but that still limits the power to 260kw at 400V nominal. For anything above that a 800V architecture starts to make much more sense.
That's only true if the cable thickness and the internal restistances of all components involved are the same. Which in reality is not the case. As long as 800V compenents are more expensive, there's always a tradeoff to be made. But in the long run 800V will make this race for sure.
Hey Bjorn.what do you think about model Y SR with blade baterry and actual model 3 highland SR?i want to use it even for long trips.i don't really need 2 motors.thanks
Down here in Australia, you're lucky if you can charge more than 50Kw. The greenies are shutting down all our coal and we have blackouts regularly. i don't understand as we still export coal and gas at record levels but we can't use it.
Can you talk more about regen? How much are we actually regen...? Assuming you climb a mountain and then descend it with the same speed (is it even possible?)... how much do you use and how much do you regen?
its not about c rating at all. net power going in is relevant some respects and a ratio like average km going in per unit of time is relevant and also the curve and other metrics. but c rating is not so relevant to TVs and the test is not quite fair with model y. 800v systems also have other advantages besides charging but teslas drive trains are so efficient the Tesla 400v volt system is really great.
In the Tesla with BYD battery test, it reached 80% at the very same time as Ioniq 6, so I would not say it beat it... average C rating up to 80% is clearly the same, about 2.1C. That is super impressive. Only then going to higher SoC, in large part due to the "Korean siesta", Tesla ruled to 90% with a 3% margin. Then it lost again slightly to 100%. IMO it's showing both cars are pushing the C envelope, being so close. At the pack level, 800V really brings no advantage, each cell still has to pass the same current.
You can borrow a tesla highland you just cannot get the one you ordered delivered. Mine is currently 3 weeks late after a firm delivery date and no sign of it turning up. Their customer service is rubbish. Oh and I meant to add sat in the port not moving for 3 weeks.
They do not pollute rich countries, you could not tell that for other countries - Production, and dirty electricity ( Just the point why no one buys old lithium batteries and do with lead batteries ) Because Lead can be recycled.
This, for me anyways, is where Nio comes into play, with there solution to battery swap. This process from start to finish takes care of the battery longevity issues and helps to protect the grid and does away with the need for rapid charging technology, and the C rating limitations for the car owner. Its one thing to own a car that can charge faster than everyone else, but it is quite another when it comes to looking after everyone's connection to the grid. Not to mention efficiencies that are lost due heat charging at super fast speeds. Sadly there is not a Government in the world that would lay down the rule that battery swap is the law of the land. Battery swap for commercial vehicles would be a real advantage due to time savings. I have LFP battery for my home use and charge them at a C rating of 0.25 to 0.5 max even though they are 200Ah packs at 51v.
Thanks for this video and the others. Yes, my deleted Canyon Diesel smells 😂 (and sounds funny) but my Mach E makes up for it and it’s doing the heavy lifting now 👍
Just hope Tesla is not just running the Blade super hard costing longevity. Would be offset by the chemistry but I’d rather like to have the choice while fast charging. Same as this mode Porsche offers.
The blade battery from the model Y is already fast for the standards 3C as mentioned, today i got a notification that Desten is validating and testing a LFP battery with 10C charging capability. They didn’t however specify endurance or size/weight. The future holds many upgrades for batteries, weren’t nearly done!
I kind of tend to agree with you. My own idea how it came along: The engineers are tasked with making the battery charge fast & at high power. They succeed to some degree by playing with cooling, the chemistry, charging algorithms, deciding how much they can torture the battery so at most 1% of them will fail while still under warranty… and eventually hit the limit of 500A. And as engineering is mostly just solving the next problem that gets onto your desk, they solve it by rearranging the pack to higher voltage and call it a day. But the marketing department needs something to say "Hey, we are cool!" and putting a 5-paragraph long explanation of all the chemistry advances is not something they want to do (and 5-paragraph long explanation how well they know the cells' limits to get just barely past the warranty is something they _really_ don't want to do). So they pick these 800V, because it's a higher number than 400V and for an average customer, it looks twice as good and ride with that. But the real story is in all the stuff before hitting the current limit. That 800V is mostly just indicator than they've reached so high charging powers that this trivial part started to bother them. The 800V hype is marketing department doing their job.
I keep quiet around fossil users in the UK they are paying my taxes on the fuel they buy. If I get someone talking about buying an ev I buy them a copy of the sun or daily mail.
Gasoline in the US dropped below $3/gallon the other day. EVs pay extra registration every year in my state ($100 more). EV drivers don't really save much here unless you charge at home (which i do with model 3).
I wish there was a way to shift to "km/hr" (or "miles/hr") so that vehicles requiring huge amounts of kWh to go a given distance get penalized. There needs to be a way to reward efficient transportation.
Efficiency is KING! I love my ‘21 Model 3 SR+ for its efficiency! This car costs me $30 USD per month for 1,200 miles/month for “fuel.” AND… It is a hoot to drive! ICE efficiency is CRAP! At its best, it uses 20% of the potential energy to propel the vehicle down the road. The other 80% (which you have to pay for) is WASTED as heat and pollution. A complete waste of money. (I paid $200/month to drive my 19th century tech ICE car.) 20%. And that’s best case scenario - perfectly tuned, perfectly maintained, perfect environmental/geographic conditions, and driven in the most perfect manner. Who does all that?? After 50 years of driving crappy polluting stinky money-wasting ancient tech cars - I’ll take an EV, virtually ANY EV, over ANY ICE everyday of the week! Great rant, Bjorn!
love the rant... everyone needs to rant every now and then in conclusion, EV tech needs to be fast changing to 80% low degradation 10+ years on average, 700 - 1000km for the average vehicle and plenty of changing options
The Ionic classic has a 28kWh battery and charges up to ~76% with ~67kW, which corresponds to ~2.4C. Its charging curve is flat, i.e. according to Bjorn it has even some sort of limitation. Now I wonder: Where is the battery improvement since 2016? Take the same (7 year old) technology, but with 3 times the capacity, and this would be more than state-of-the-art. Or is there any car charging a 84kWh battery with 200kW flat up to 76% SoC?
As well as C rating and battery capacity to assess rate of charge (ROC), the rate of consumption is also very important. If your EV is more efficient the ROC can be less for a given increase in range. To me what really matters is ROC in units of mph/kph increase in range. This is where Tesla wins over Audi and others. When comparing EVs, range is always the first performance specification that potential owners look for. I think that the second item looked at should be ROC in terms of increase in range/hr. This gives a measure of charge waiting time on long trips for a given ROC in terms of C rating and also an idea of efficiency and therefore cost/distance. Efficient EVs need smaller batteries for a given range as demonstrated by the 1000km challenge.
You seem to imply that you would expect an 800v battery to charge quicker than a 400v battery. Why? the individual battery cells for a 400v system are charged at the same voltage as 800v and thus the charging speed is the same. The benefits for the 800v are down to the Current squared x Resistance, so benefits are weight saving and heat loss.
@@bjornnyland thanks for finding the time to reply. Adverts might say that the car has 800V and is fast charging, but that doesn’t mean that fast charging is the result of 800v.
I sink it was a misunderstanding. You were happy about the benefits in 400V range. I only saw the kwh per Minute. I prefere more voltage. If my 12V camper battery would be a 24v battery, my charger would be able to charge with double amount of output power. And my inverter only would need the halb amount of diameter in the cable. I would prefere lower current in the system, for need of less cables and smaller inverter size. I'm very interested in the Shenxing battery pack. And how it handles the high charge rates ofer time.
6:00 Bjørn have misunderstood whe word battery. It is not linked to energy accumulators, but is used multiple areas. The definition of battery is a set of equals set together in a system. A battery on a battleship is its multiple guns. We also have missile battery... If you are criminally charged with battery, you are charged with hitting someone multiple times. For most people, the word battery is a battery of electric accumulators, but it can be any thing. Tesla self driving is possible due to a battery of sensors in the car... And BTW, you phone does not have a battery, since it's only on cell...
@@bjornnyland wrote: "No, you musunderstood me. I referred to battery as an array of same things." Bjørn's qoute from the video: "The reason why meany people call it battery is because it's an array of cells... you know, like a ba.... what is it again... When you have a battery you have actually okay whatever I think the name battery comes from an array off cells, individual cells.. uh to create the battery and by end of the day you could make " I stand by my original post. Regarding "akku" in Germany, akkumulator was also used in Norway. Just 10 years ago Biltema had in their product description "blyakkumulator" in their lineup of Led-Acid batteries. The official Norwegian dictionary defines akkumulator as "apparat til å samle opp energi som en senere kan ta ut"
Thanks for a very informative video. Know what c-rating is and now everyone knows. Never questioned that it is better on Tesla. But if you only want to charge 60 kwh and then move on, then it is much faster with the Ioniq 6. It is clear that it takes longer to fully charge a larger battery. Above all with a worse c-rating. Tesla is undoubtedly a better car.
Masinile electrice sunt un moft! Sunt foarte scumpe si in vremurile pe care le traim foarte putina lume isi poate permite acest moft(vezi scaderile mai mult decat ingrijoratoare in vanzarile acestui tip de auto)…….
Does the byd blade tech require you to charge to 100% every other day?! If yes, that sucks. Remember not everyone has a home charger and most people can use the vehicle for one week of full charge, thus charging once per week is enough. If the tech is so poorly made (tesla lfp) that it needs everyday or every other day to be 100%, that is garbage.
Do you think Tesla's daily charge limit is a daily requirement? Do you think the NCA batteries with an 80% daily charge limit require you to charge it to 80% a day? Tesla doesn't require the LFP to be charged to 100% every day or every other day, they recommend setting the daily charge limit to 100% and charging to 100% atleast once a week The daily charge limit isn't what you are going to charge it to everyday or what you need to charge it too everyday but just the maximum the car will charge to when plugged in You also don't have to charge to the limit you set, e.g if you set it to 100% you could unplug at 80% and be just fine
Did you heard about the cells that are in an Ioniq 6? It has nothing to do with 800v. Sk-On just made special cells that just don't heat up as fast as Tesla's. 800v is just good for stations builders, not for cars. You were able to see a huge difference by discharging an Ev6 battery, driving really fast. The heat build up is really slower, that is not always an advantage : by driving 200km at 130 at 0 degrees C, you will only charge at 60kw if you don't use the battery heater. A smaller internal resistance is the only explanation. But Hyundai is simply talking about 800v, that is not the main element. Why 800v, so? Just because a classic 400v charger won't be able to provide 600 amp for a long time, without burning. Ionity just need 300 amp to put max power into a Ioniq 6. The real probllem is the cost, way higher.
I found this very interesting, I spent 2 years working on Truck and Bus batteries, the mechanical design, the case structure, cell arrangement, bus bar and cable layout, BMS locations etc. Retired now.
Your explanation is spot on.
We used LiFePo, NMC and experimented with Lithium Titanate - for a high C rate.
We mainly used NMC pouch cells made by AESC Envision - like the Nissan Cells.
A limiting factor I didn't hear you mention was the bus bar , cable sections and routings.
Charging at a high C rate or high current generates heat in the bus bars and cables and they have an effect on the whole battery enclosure temperature. 800V vs 400V, 800V allows the internal bus bars and cables to be half the section for the same current or generate less heat
We had a test rig for accelerated lifeing where we could experiment with layouts and different cooling types, Air, Liquid, surface cooling, heat exchange internal to external.
Also the software limits for the batteries I worked on were set at Tmax 42C before derating began (rapidgate) Cell_Tmax to Cell_Tmin was no more than 2C CellV spread was no more than 20mV.
The CellVmin CellVmax which car scanner shows is usually the Tab temperature from the CANBUS, its not the actual cell temp but the tabs are easy access and can be the hottest part.
Very good Rant
Hi Björn, for the volvo trucks
Zellen:
Format 21700
Typ Samsung INR 21700-53G
Zellchemie NCA (Nickel, Cobalt, Aluminium)
Nennspannung 3.6 V
Max. U 4.2 V (100% SOC)
Min. U 3.2 V (0% SOC)
Kapazität 5300 mAh (19Wh)
Gewicht 69.5 g
Modul:
Anzahl Zellen 4680
Seriell 180
Parallel 22
Nennspannung 653 V
Max. U 750 V (100% SOC)
Min. U 575 V (0% SOC)
Kapazität 90 kWh
Gewicht 532 kg (344 kg aktiv)
Pack:
Anzahl Module 5-6
Kapazität 450 - 540 kWh
Gewicht 2660 - 3192 kg
Strom:
Laden (250 kW) 363 A / 2.7 A (max. 4.8A)
Entladen (515 kW) 775 A / 5.8 A (max. 9.7A)
Its from Volvos documents so its somewhat accurate but not 100%
Cheers
Charging at 800v means that thinner cables can be used for equivalent power ratings. It offers no advantage for cell charging, which is subject to exactly the same constraints at 400v or 800v, because it’s the charging power that counts.
and actual the 400v components are more common in production and so they are cheaper. When 800v components will be more produced, they will be cheaper for the manufacturers.
no
Yet, the 800 V cables in Ionity are way thicher than v3 400 V superchargers :P
@@bjornnyland Less cooling is needed on Ionity, but only when 800V car is connected and charging at 250kW.
Higher voltage also means thicker insulation is needed. And I believe Tesla overloads their cables over their spec current temporarily (monitoring for temperature), taking into account the charge curve will drop the power eventually.
So while Tesla peaks at higher current, Ionity probably has the cables capable of delivering 500A continuously, meaning they might actually be thicker, or with a higher cooling capability. Together with the thicker HV insulation it results in thicker cables. Let's see what the V4 dispensers are like, those should offer 1000V from what I heard. I agree that 800V adds little to the car. But it might be a necessary step in the ever higher power race to keep the chargers themselves manageable. Cybertruck is supposed to have 800V anyway. The cars not pushing the envelope so much will always remain 400V as that is much cheaper, and price I believe is a large part in why Tesla sticks to it so much.
So the tradeoff is having a thicker piece of Aluminium cable vs. Having twice amount of balancing circuit inside the batterypack and less resilience to cell voltage drift.
I think one reason why "800V" made sense for Hyundai's E-GMP platform is that for the used type of pouch cells, it is easier to re-use the same platform for a wide range of battery sizes without suffering from bad charging speed at ≪400V.
Let me explain: E-GMP uses 384 cells for the largest 77kWh battery in Ioniq 5 and 6 (and EV6) in 32 modules with 12 cells per module. The smallest 53kWh battery has only 22 modules, totalling 264 cells.
By always wiring 2 cells in parallel, you get around 384/2 * [3…4.1]V = [576…787]V for the large battery and [432…590]V for the small battery. You can also create bigger batteries for the EV9 or so without a problem. The max voltage will be a bit above 800V but the chargers support 1kV anyway, so why not.
But if they had chosen to wire 3 cells in parallel (instead of 2), the voltage for the small battery would be only 288/3 * [3…4.1]V = [288...394]V and for the large battery you'd get [384...524]V. Mmh, still above 400V for large batteries. So let's wire 4 cells in parallel!
288/4 * [3…4.1]V = [216...295]V
384/4 * [3…4.1]V = [288...394]V
Ok, that kind of works in a 400V limit (actually usually 450V).
But look at the shitty voltage for the smaller batteries at low SOC! If the charger gives us a maximum of 500A, we would get around 220V*500A=110kW, limited by the charging station!
So my claim is: Tesla achieves it's granularity by using many more cells which are a lot smaller than Hyundai's (SKI's) pouch cells and has a better flexibility when wiring them up in series and parallel.
Hyundai achieves it's granularity by giving up the 400V limit and using a much wider range of voltages throughout their product line. Then they rebrand this strategy as "800V alien technology" or something like that.
Greetings from a very happy Ioniq 5 owner. :-)
Björn, you know the Koreans have the best cells. They don't put those cells into Kona or eNiro, but they put them into eGMP cars and they also put them into the 28kWh Ioniq. The 28kWh Ioniq could charge at higher C-Rating in 2016 than any Tesla pre BYD blade LFP cells, and its battery degraded no more than a Tesla battery of the same era. In fact, my first EV was a 2014 Model S, and Tesla slowed down its charging speed after a few years. You may not be aware of that, or it may not have happened in Norway because it's colder up there, but I talked to several other Tesla drivers at the Supercharger at the time, and they experienced the same. My tesla lost about 10% of range in the 8 years and 200kkm I owned it. My 28kWh Ioniq lost 12% of usable capacity in the 5 years and 250kkm I owned it, and those 250kkm amount to 750kkm worth of cycles with the Model S. The eGMP cars can charge quicker than all other cars on the market today, except the BYD Model Y, which charges equally quickly. As for the 800V vs 400V discussion, this is largely a question of charging infrastructure. Tesla can't currently exceed 450V due to the voltage limitations of their vast installed charging network. Hyundai on the other hand design their cars for the use with public charging infrastructure. With this type of chargers it's preferable to use 500-800V, because that puts less stress on the charger, the connector and the car, the platform has reserves for faster cells and bigger batteries, and the components are less expensive. So the reality is, 400V is better for Tesla and 800V is better for Hyundai. This becomes clear, if you compare eGMP with MEB. eGMP supports cars in the ID3 and smaller to giant SUV's such as the EV9 to performance cars like EV6 GT. MEB is already maxed out and a full generation behind eGMP, despite being developped and introduced at about the same time. VW needs to use a different platform for their higher end Audi and Porsche models, the PPE. The PPE and MEB will both be replaced by a new platform called SSP after just 2 or 3 years. SSP will be the equivalent of eGMP, which will be at least 6-7 years old by the time SSP will go into production. VW even developped bespoke platforms for single models such as the Toycan or fat eTron. That's a lot of engineering going down the toilet at VW for lack of vision and concept. Tesla OTOH don't have or need platforms. The have only one brand with only 3.5 different models they keep developping thus far.
16:45 Highland managed to blink out of the roundabout :D It is actualay doable :) but is probly a bit cumbersome :D
from school i remember that loses in the conductor of electric current are calculated something like this: loses = voltage * (current)squared * conductor properties. so if you increase voltage you can reduce current and reduce losses or use lighter conductor of current. if comparing 800v vs 400v you get 4 times less losses in conductors. main result is lighter conductors.
I agree I think EVs will slowly go towards 800volt and 19volts for service battery
that is true for conductors, but does nothing for the battery pack unfortunately. Using the battery of the same capacity, the 800v battery will have four times as much internal resistance as a 400v one, but for the same charging power, you need twice the current. Doubling the current leads to 2x voltage drop across the battery pack and you end up with the same total internal heat loss in the battery pack.
Thanks for explaining C Bjorn. Easy to understand, no mysteries
Thank you Bjørn for this. I got inspired and added C-Rating calculation to the EVKX EV database. So now you can sort EVs on Max C Rating and on Average C Rating. For Max C Rating G9 comes out on top. Tesla Model Y standard range comes amongst top 5. Try it out.
Just to be clear, the C-rating of a battery is in A, and is a factor of the capacity in Ah. In the video Bjørn used W and Wh for explaining C rating, while technically incorrect W and Wh are more commonly know by regular users.
Batteries have two C-rating at a given temperature range, one max discharge and one max charge rate during the constant current portion (CC) of the charge. Chemistry will limit the rate during the constant voltage part (CV).
BTW: Capacity of Led-Acid batteries are normally measured with a C/20 at 20°C and it is 1C at 20°C for Li-ion batteries.
Nice database very useful
Do you mean EVDB or is this another EV website?
@@robertpopek6063 i mean EVKX database. Much more detailed than EVDB.
@@MichaelEricMenk yes I agree, but since the nominal voltage is pretty much the same on the cells (LFP is a typical 0.2 lower) this simplifcation would give the "same" number.
800-volt architecture is just a lot more efficient and leads to waste heat in general. My EV6 (E-GMP car) needs only 305 amps to get up to 240 kW. EVs in the 400-volt class need around 500 or more amps to get over 200 kW.
High amperage leads to more waste heat. But great discussion/podcast Bjørn!
For my part, it doesn't really matter if the car battery is getting damaged by high C figures in 800v systems (if that's true, there's no clear evidence of that). I drive a KIA EV6 as a company car and it's going to be returned in 3 years. I DC charge rarely, since I don't travel much. The bulk of daily use is 10-20 km in city traffic. I charge at home to 80% once a week. So, for my use case, 800v is perfect. When I travel long distances, I charge at Ionity and it puts a smile on my face when I'm last in, first out :D
Pretty good info Björn, dont forget to give us a house heat pump update in consumption daily or weekly, thank you 🙂
Most people have been using C-rating for several years without knowing what it is.
When you buy a Led-Acid battery, you have a capacity on that battery. The normal stated capacity of Lead-Acid battery is the capacity when discharged over 20 hours, or C/20. Some large Lead-Acid batteries for off grid PV installation use C/100 when calculating capacity.
Capacity for Li-ion is normally measured with a 1C discharge, but this is less important because the peukert effect is almost non-existent in Li-Ion batteries.
You, "Out of Spec", and "E for Electric" are the only car reviewers I trust.
Na e for elitric hates Tesla too much I think
I suppose what real world measure that would be useful would be how long to add sat 300 KM range to the battery, taking in to account the efficiency of the car and its charge capability.
Exactly, actually I think charging should be measured in KM per Hour, or as you say Minutes per 100KM, what do you think?
@@grahambrown42 WLTP km or based on wh/km consumed at 120 km/h?
@@Scrap-press Charging Rate 🤔
OP: "300 KM range"
300 Kelvin Mega? The surface of the sun is only 0.005778 Mega Kelvin... :-) .. PS case matters
Personally I like the charge-rate to be km per minute when fast charging. I find that number much more useful than km/h as charging sessions normally takes less than one hour.
@@grahambrown42 Ideally yes, but then some smartass will come along to say that they drive at a million miles per hour on a highway in winter and uphill constantly so you have to change the test because 300km range is not possible
Ioniq 5/6 doesn't hold that much power until 80%. The 200+ kW peak drops off at 50%, and at 80% when it hits the big drop it'll be at around 115-120 kW (2C) in optimal conditions. Yet classic Ioniq 28 kWh can hold 70 kW (2.5C) until 80%, are forced-air cooled, and yet still historically been quite reliable.
Battery chemistry and design is quite important because evidently it is possible to have great C-rating charging curve even with 2017 technology.
If you think about the voltage as the transportat layer for the energy, a higher voltage is off course better for that. It's the same with network for computers. Higher throughput is better the lower.
Now the question is those benefits fit your usecase is a different one. But if you think about it, the performance cars like the Porsche,Lucid and Rimac use 800v+ due to several advantages. That's just it.
I think it doesn't make sense to argue about it if the future will be 800v plus anyway. Why wouldn't it be? Buying an 800v car today is more future proof for sure.
Cybertruck has 800 V system, thinner cables, 70 percent less cable weight.
True story about VW. You can smell them before you see them. I live in Germany and it's really bad here with their Diesel Junk... Can't wait for my Model Y with the Hepa filter. 😅😊
800 V architecture will either allow for thinner (cheaper) cables or decrease losses in them.
Regarding recirculating the cabin air, I would love it if that function just turned on automatically any time the car detects that it's in a tunnel. I mean, the car has GPS, so how hard can it be?
45:07 apparently not for other manufacturers but likely to be a Tesla thing. 💡
reference: Adam Davenport: "This design flaw makes Tesla's Model 3 smell bad! (with fixes!)" vid
Hey Bjørn. I have seen soooo many reviews / test drives from you. But I cant find any videos about Audi E-tron 60 (S) model.
Would love to see you do a test of some sorts, to hear your thoughts if its worth buying over the 55 for example :)
When I requested to borrow it, Audi said that they have sold the press car.
perfect entertainment and knowledge in one video (or podcast)
Interesting educational topic, very good podcast to listen!
The main thing is amps. This determines the size of the cables needed for charging and discharging. More amps need fatter cables. Watts is amps x volts, so to get more KW with the same amps, you need to increase the voltage.
Tesla supercharger v3 can output 250 kW and 670 A and the cable is thinner than most 50 kW chargers.
V3 cables are also generally much shorter than other chargers cables, which allows for smaller cables. Also, do Tesla chargers have active cooling in the cables? That would allow them to be smaller.
Yes, it has active cooling.
Kyle Conner talked about Tesla pushing the boundaries of the cables and change them out more often. So Ionity could have a longer lifespan prioritized over thinner and more service
Keep in mind, that charging losses with 800 V are much lower.
With any given charging power:
400 V: current = 100 % cable loss at the charger is 100 %
800 V: current = 50 % cable loss at the charger is 25 %
your mind is set very short, isnt it ?
to produce 400VDC from 3phase AC is easy and has almost no losses...
producing 800VDC requries some fancy IGBTs and chunky inductors to boost it as required, so you will get charged for the hardware and the internal losses aswell... its just over complicated
In theory, yes. But the main losses happens in battery cells which are the same for 400 V and 800 V. That's why Tesla has the same losses as Taycan:
ruclips.net/video/iLmIIe9N_aI/видео.html
@@Rolly369 This may be true if you assume the chargers are connected to the 400 V grid. But most high power charging sites may be connected to the medium-voltage power grid directly. So it should be no Problem to feed the 800 V chargers with 1000 V AC.
There is no 1000V AC, Medium Voltage is usually around 20kV, at least here in Germany. Should be similar in Norway.
And pretty much all the High Power Chargers are connected to Low Voltage (400V 3 Phase). You'd just have to look at the Plates / Datasheets of Supercharger Cabinets or Alpitronic HYC Chargers.
The conversion losses which happen inside the charger and cable shouldn't matter to the end consumer, as you're only paying for what comes out at the plug, which at least for the Alpitronic units is where they are measuring.
Currently there isn't really much difference wheather thr car is charging with 400 or 800 Volts, that is as long as you're not hitting the cable / connector current limit which usually is aroung 500 or 600 Amps. Tesla is going up to 650A, but that still limits the power to 260kw at 400V nominal. For anything above that a 800V architecture starts to make much more sense.
That's only true if the cable thickness and the internal restistances of all components involved are the same. Which in reality is not the case. As long as 800V compenents are more expensive, there's always a tradeoff to be made. But in the long run 800V will make this race for sure.
Did you notice the highland 3 blinked correctly at the roundabout?? 😂
Even if it's possible doesn't mean that it's not cumbersome.
Spitting nothing but FACTS! Great job Bjorn!
This video is good, to clarify our questions in your charging video. 👍
800v maintains charge rate with lower amperage chargers in addition to reducing heat loss in ALL connections
Not in the cells. General misconception.
@@bjornnyland, agreed my point is that charges need less current
charges -> chargers
Hey Bjorn.what do you think about model Y SR with blade baterry and actual model 3 highland SR?i want to use it even for long trips.i don't really need 2 motors.thanks
Down here in Australia, you're lucky if you can charge more than 50Kw. The greenies are shutting down all our coal and we have blackouts regularly. i don't understand as we still export coal and gas at record levels but we can't use it.
Can you talk more about regen? How much are we actually regen...? Assuming you climb a mountain and then descend it with the same speed (is it even possible?)... how much do you use and how much do you regen?
its not about c rating at all. net power going in is relevant some respects and a ratio like average km going in per unit of time is relevant and also the curve and other metrics. but c rating is not so relevant to TVs and the test is not quite fair with model y. 800v systems also have other advantages besides charging but teslas drive trains are so efficient the Tesla 400v volt system is really great.
In the Tesla with BYD battery test, it reached 80% at the very same time as Ioniq 6, so I would not say it beat it... average C rating up to 80% is clearly the same, about 2.1C. That is super impressive.
Only then going to higher SoC, in large part due to the "Korean siesta", Tesla ruled to 90% with a 3% margin. Then it lost again slightly to 100%.
IMO it's showing both cars are pushing the C envelope, being so close. At the pack level, 800V really brings no advantage, each cell still has to pass the same current.
You can borrow a tesla highland you just cannot get the one you ordered delivered. Mine is currently 3 weeks late after a firm delivery date and no sign of it turning up. Their customer service is rubbish.
Oh and I meant to add sat in the port not moving for 3 weeks.
some people care about motor power comparing with battery capacity. For example plaid had 700kW power and battery 100kwh capacity.
P=U*I Don't incluse cos phi. Higher tension is lower current, smaller cables.
I want to do an offgrid solar/battery system for my home and i'm going 48v. Most new inverters are 48v. The benefit (vs 12v) is thinner wires.
They do not pollute rich countries, you could not tell that for other countries - Production, and dirty electricity ( Just the point why no one buys old lithium batteries and do with lead batteries ) Because Lead can be recycled.
Thanks!
Thank you very much :)
Unfortunately I live in a shoe box and all I can do is watch your videos and dream😭
This, for me anyways, is where Nio comes into play, with there solution to battery swap. This process from start to finish takes care of the battery longevity issues and helps to protect the grid and does away with the need for rapid charging technology, and the C rating limitations for the car owner.
Its one thing to own a car that can charge faster than everyone else, but it is quite another when it comes to looking after everyone's connection to the grid. Not to mention efficiencies that are lost due heat charging at super fast speeds. Sadly there is not a Government in the world that would lay down the rule that battery swap is the law of the land.
Battery swap for commercial vehicles would be a real advantage due to time savings.
I have LFP battery for my home use and charge them at a C rating of 0.25 to 0.5 max even though they are 200Ah packs at 51v.
Love the rants
Hi Björn! When are the Highland vidoes coming? :)
As soon as Marcusbil gets the car.
Thanks for this video and the others. Yes, my deleted Canyon Diesel smells 😂 (and sounds funny) but my Mach E makes up for it and it’s doing the heavy lifting now 👍
Just hope Tesla is not just running the Blade super hard costing longevity. Would be offset by the chemistry but I’d rather like to have the choice while fast charging. Same as this mode Porsche offers.
Pixel binning is why 100 M pix sensor is better than, e.g. 8.
The blade battery from the model Y is already fast for the standards 3C as mentioned, today i got a notification that Desten is validating and testing a LFP battery with 10C charging capability. They didn’t however specify endurance or size/weight. The future holds many upgrades for batteries, weren’t nearly done!
Make a 1000km test with the Kia Ev9
Entertaining as always..
Hi Björn. Are you going to review Zeekr 001, BYD Seal or any other more premium chinese EV before Tesla Model 3 Highland? If not what are the reasons?
I kind of tend to agree with you. My own idea how it came along:
The engineers are tasked with making the battery charge fast & at high power. They succeed to some degree by playing with cooling, the chemistry, charging algorithms, deciding how much they can torture the battery so at most 1% of them will fail while still under warranty… and eventually hit the limit of 500A.
And as engineering is mostly just solving the next problem that gets onto your desk, they solve it by rearranging the pack to higher voltage and call it a day.
But the marketing department needs something to say "Hey, we are cool!" and putting a 5-paragraph long explanation of all the chemistry advances is not something they want to do (and 5-paragraph long explanation how well they know the cells' limits to get just barely past the warranty is something they _really_ don't want to do). So they pick these 800V, because it's a higher number than 400V and for an average customer, it looks twice as good and ride with that.
But the real story is in all the stuff before hitting the current limit. That 800V is mostly just indicator than they've reached so high charging powers that this trivial part started to bother them. The 800V hype is marketing department doing their job.
Model S long range ("paladium") goes up to 220kW on Ionity, I use Ionity more than Superchargers. It charges great!
I keep quiet around fossil users in the UK they are paying my taxes on the fuel they buy. If I get someone talking about buying an ev I buy them a copy of the sun or daily mail.
Gasoline in the US dropped below $3/gallon the other day. EVs pay extra registration every year in my state ($100 more). EV drivers don't really save much here unless you charge at home (which i do with model 3).
I wish there was a way to shift to "km/hr" (or "miles/hr") so that vehicles requiring huge amounts of kWh to go a given distance get penalized. There needs to be a way to reward efficient transportation.
Whats-Up Bjorn!
LOL Bjorn on the kW vs kWh thing. But what about kWh/h?
What the heck is that thing??? LOL............. Just kidding.
Love all your contents!
@@meauris He was joking
800 volts remains hype until Tesla uses it
It depends. If Tesla uses it in 10 years when battery sizes are at 150-200 kWh or most cells can charge at 5 C to 80 % then it's not a hype at all.
Cybertruck will probably use 800V battery. Interesting to see how it will perform
The only correct unit for charging speed is kWh/h 🙊🙃
Efficiency is KING!
I love my ‘21 Model 3 SR+ for its efficiency! This car costs me $30 USD per month for 1,200 miles/month for “fuel.” AND… It is a hoot to drive!
ICE efficiency is CRAP! At its best, it uses 20% of the potential energy to propel the vehicle down the road. The other 80% (which you have to pay for) is WASTED as heat and pollution. A complete waste of money. (I paid $200/month to drive my 19th century tech ICE car.)
20%. And that’s best case scenario - perfectly tuned, perfectly maintained, perfect environmental/geographic conditions, and driven in the most perfect manner. Who does all that??
After 50 years of driving crappy polluting stinky money-wasting ancient tech cars - I’ll take an EV, virtually ANY EV, over ANY ICE everyday of the week!
Great rant, Bjorn!
love the rant... everyone needs to rant every now and then
in conclusion, EV tech needs to be fast changing to 80%
low degradation 10+ years
on average, 700 - 1000km for the average vehicle and plenty of changing options
The Ionic classic has a 28kWh battery and charges up to ~76% with ~67kW, which corresponds to ~2.4C.
Its charging curve is flat, i.e. according to Bjorn it has even some sort of limitation.
Now I wonder: Where is the battery improvement since 2016?
Take the same (7 year old) technology, but with 3 times the capacity, and this would be more than state-of-the-art. Or is there any car charging a 84kWh battery with 200kW flat up to 76% SoC?
Maybe the old ioniq cells using much more cobalt. With more cobalt you can handle higher charging power afaik.
The classic has more "hidden" capacity. Thats why it degrades very late. Question is: Do you have to calculate including that hidden capacity or not?
When KIA EV9 bjorn?!
As well as C rating and battery capacity to assess rate of charge (ROC), the rate of consumption is also very important. If your EV is more efficient the ROC can be less for a given increase in range. To me what really matters is ROC in units of mph/kph increase in range. This is where Tesla wins over Audi and others. When comparing EVs, range is always the first performance specification that potential owners look for. I think that the second item looked at should be ROC in terms of increase in range/hr. This gives a measure of charge waiting time on long trips for a given ROC in terms of C rating and also an idea of efficiency and therefore cost/distance. Efficient EVs need smaller batteries for a given range as demonstrated by the 1000km challenge.
I sure hope Tesla making the Cybertruck 800v stops all this unnecessary discussion! 😂
Hey Bjorn! What is your favorite Pho place in Oslo? The one at Metro Center?
Yes
BTW: that highland managed to blink out of the roundabout!!
Even if it's possible doesn't mean that it's not cumbersome.
Hmm. I think if the Ioniq 6 didn't have the "siesta" it could win. Maybe try a newer Ioniq 6 with an updated software?
I don't think new software will solve it.
like the Difference between break and brake
Their/there/they're
Alot off people mix up loose and lose.
Do you think the Tesla strike is going to spill over to Norway from Sweden?
Some 18650 do 4c. 0.5c is ideal for all to keep the temp down and lifespan up.
even a human needs to worm up firs if he wants to perform well, thats why you always see athleats warmup. the same gose for baterys
bashing fossils? Come on, thats to easy
To easy or too easy?
@@bjornnyland shiiiiieeeeeeet. Now you got me
You seem to imply that you would expect an 800v battery to charge quicker than a 400v battery. Why? the individual battery cells for a 400v system are charged at the same voltage as 800v and thus the charging speed is the same. The benefits for the 800v are down to the Current squared x Resistance, so benefits are weight saving and heat loss.
Because that's what everyone claims when they're talking about 800 V advantage.
@@bjornnyland thanks for finding the time to reply. Adverts might say that the car has 800V and is fast charging, but that doesn’t mean that fast charging is the result of 800v.
Many people dont have money to buy a new car for 500.000 nok - often the 10 year old diesel car still works so they must use them until they are kaput
There are plenty of good 2nd hand EV for only 150-200k NOK. Many people don't know this or refuse to understand.
Look forward to the Kona test
Will you change your view now that tesla has 800v cars in the cyber truck and in the future???
800v master race
No
I sink it was a misunderstanding. You were happy about the benefits in 400V range. I only saw the kwh per Minute. I prefere more voltage. If my 12V camper battery would be a 24v battery, my charger would be able to charge with double amount of output power. And my inverter only would need the halb amount of diameter in the cable. I would prefere lower current in the system, for need of less cables and smaller inverter size. I'm very interested in the Shenxing battery pack. And how it handles the high charge rates ofer time.
Bjorn rambles, it's true, but there are many ponies in these sessions.
Yo whuts up.
6:00 Bjørn have misunderstood whe word battery.
It is not linked to energy accumulators, but is used multiple areas.
The definition of battery is a set of equals set together in a system.
A battery on a battleship is its multiple guns. We also have missile battery...
If you are criminally charged with battery, you are charged with hitting someone multiple times.
For most people, the word battery is a battery of electric accumulators, but it can be any thing.
Tesla self driving is possible due to a battery of sensors in the car...
And BTW, you phone does not have a battery, since it's only on cell...
No, you musunderstood me. I referred to battery as an array of same things. I know cells are accumulators. In German it's even called akku.
@@bjornnyland wrote: "No, you musunderstood me. I referred to battery as an array of same things."
Bjørn's qoute from the video: "The reason why meany people call it battery is because it's an array of cells... you know, like a ba.... what is it again... When you have a battery you have actually okay whatever
I think the name battery comes from an array off cells, individual cells.. uh to create the battery and by end of the day you could make "
I stand by my original post.
Regarding "akku" in Germany, akkumulator was also used in Norway. Just 10 years ago Biltema had in their product description "blyakkumulator" in their lineup of Led-Acid batteries.
The official Norwegian dictionary defines akkumulator as "apparat til å samle opp energi som en senere kan ta ut"
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800v components cost?
How does this change the cost to produce the car?
Is this why 800v cars are low volume?
Thanks for a very informative video. Know what c-rating is and now everyone knows. Never questioned that it is better on Tesla. But if you only want to charge 60 kwh and then move on, then it is much faster with the Ioniq 6. It is clear that it takes longer to fully charge a larger battery. Above all with a worse c-rating. Tesla is undoubtedly a better car.
Ioniq 6 has a larger battery...
22:50 wow I have never seen people leave to much space for people to overtake others. Normally they all hug the camper/truck and never overtake.
For a good reason. If you stay too close to the truck in front, your car will be covered in dirt and salt. Welcome to Norway.
Byd thermal management could be a cheaper pack design resulting in rapidgate
Masinile electrice sunt un moft! Sunt foarte scumpe si in vremurile pe care le traim foarte putina lume isi poate permite acest moft(vezi scaderile mai mult decat ingrijoratoare in vanzarile acestui tip de auto)…….
Very good but can we have a 5k podcast next time kthxbai
Is that a question
1. His camera only shoots 4K
2. RUclips doesn’t support 5K, only 4K and 8K
3. 5K takes longer to export and upload
@@TheStopwatchGod it was sarcasm.
@@bjornnyland is THAT a question? Twollololololol
Does the byd blade tech require you to charge to 100% every other day?!
If yes, that sucks. Remember not everyone has a home charger and most people can use the vehicle for one week of full charge, thus charging once per week is enough.
If the tech is so poorly made (tesla lfp) that it needs everyday or every other day to be 100%, that is garbage.
Do you think Tesla's daily charge limit is a daily requirement? Do you think the NCA batteries with an 80% daily charge limit require you to charge it to 80% a day?
Tesla doesn't require the LFP to be charged to 100% every day or every other day, they recommend setting the daily charge limit to 100% and charging to 100% atleast once a week
The daily charge limit isn't what you are going to charge it to everyday or what you need to charge it too everyday but just the maximum the car will charge to when plugged in
You also don't have to charge to the limit you set, e.g if you set it to 100% you could unplug at 80% and be just fine
Perhaps 800v architecture is the ‘Shell V-Power’ of the EV world
Did you heard about the cells that are in an Ioniq 6? It has nothing to do with 800v. Sk-On just made special cells that just don't heat up as fast as Tesla's. 800v is just good for stations builders, not for cars. You were able to see a huge difference by discharging an Ev6 battery, driving really fast. The heat build up is really slower, that is not always an advantage : by driving 200km at 130 at 0 degrees C, you will only charge at 60kw if you don't use the battery heater. A smaller internal resistance is the only explanation. But Hyundai is simply talking about 800v, that is not the main element. Why 800v, so? Just because a classic 400v charger won't be able to provide 600 amp for a long time, without burning. Ionity just need 300 amp to put max power into a Ioniq 6. The real probllem is the cost, way higher.
So disagree when you almost say that Ioniq6's battery will degrade fast, agree when you are talking about the 800v hype, that is reality.
54:27 how dare you shoe box dwellers also need clean and efficient transportation
Its absolutely crazy that most of your subscribers dont understand C rating & the difference between KW & kWh
Wow so many people that are completely wrong in the comments lol
VW in front of me, haha
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